1998 Part 3 - Tell Me What I'm Doing Here! That’s All I Ask!

Rerun gets to the existential heart of Peanuts as he continues to shine in these late Peanuts strips. Meanwhile the guys talk about how audiences and critics relate to artists with decades long careers.  Plus: You try to warn them that the world has gone mad, but no one will listen.

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Transcript available at UnpackingPeanuts.com

Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner. Produced and edited by Liz Sumner. Music by Michael Cohen. Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark. 

For more from the show follow @unpackpeanuts on Instagram and Threads, and @unpackingpeanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube. For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.  

Thanks for listening.

Episode Transcript

Jimmy (00:00):
Hey, everybody, just a quick little cold open here to alert you.
We recorded this episode before the passing of Beach Boys great Brian Wilson, and we do talk about him a little bit this episode.
We would have obviously talked more about him or at least referenced the fact that he had passed if we had recorded it after.
Just wanna let you guys know that.

(00:20):
So if it seems weird, now it seems less weird.
But no matter what, we love you, Brian.

Liz (00:25):
We do.

Michael (00:25):
Yes.

VO (00:29):
Welcome to Unpacking Peanuts, the podcast where three cartoonists take an in-depth look at the greatest comic strip of all time, Peanuts by Charles M.
Schulz.

Jimmy (00:45):
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the show.
It's your favorite podcast, Unpacking Peanuts, and I'm gonna be your host, Jimmy Gownley.
And guess what?
I'm also a cartoonist.
I do things like Amelia Rules Seven Good Reasons Not to Grow Up and The Dumbest Idea Ever.
And you can read my new work in The Real Dark Night, being serialized right now on Substack over at GVIL Comics.

(01:06):
Joining me as always are my pals, co-hosts and fellow cartoonists.
He's a playwright and a composer, both for the band Complicated People, as well as for this very podcast.
He's the co-creator of the original comic book price guide, the original editor for Amelia Ruhl's, and the creator of such great strips as Strange Attractors, A Gathering of Spells and Tangled River.
It's Michael Cohen.

Michael (01:24):
Say hey.

Jimmy (01:25):
He's the executive producer and writer of Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former vice president of good old Archie Comics, and the creator of the Instagram sensation, Sweetest Beasts, it's Harold Buchholz.

Harold (01:36):
Hello.

Jimmy (01:37):
And making sure we stay out of trouble, it's producer and editor, Liz Sumner.

Liz (01:41):
Hey now.

Jimmy (01:42):
Well guys, it is the end of 1998.
We're coming up on our very last year of strips to review, and I think we'll have a lot to say about this year in our wrap up.
Harold, do you have anything to get to at the beginning?

Harold (02:01):
No, I just want to go into these strips.
I really did enjoy reading this section of Peanuts, so I'm looking forward to talking about it.

Jimmy (02:11):
Me too.
Well, why do you say we get right to it?

Liz (02:14):
Let's do it.

Michael (02:15):
Well, I feel like we're at base camp, and we're going to go for the summit and hope none of us fall off.

Jimmy (02:24):
Or worse, end up get frozen there.

Michael (02:26):
Frozen forever in Peanuts 1999.

Jimmy (02:31):
All right.
So here's what we're going to do.
We're going to read these comic strips.
If you guys want to follow along with us, what you can do is you can go over first to the great Peanuts reread over on our website, unpackingpeanuts.com, and that will get you signed up for just one little old email a month where we will tell you what we're going to be covering.

(02:54):
We don't tell you where.
We used to be able to tell you that they're on gocomics.com for free, but now we're not able to tell you that they're on Peanuts Wiki for free.
So anyway, you do that and let's go.
We are on September 9th.
It's a panoramic panel.
Sally, Lucy, Charlie Brown and Rerun are all standing waiting for the school bus.

(03:18):
And Sally says, I see your little brother has decided to go to school.
And Lucy says, well, he's not hiding under the bed anymore.
And Charlie Brown says, maybe he's had a change of attitude.
And then Rerun screams to the heavens, tell me what I'm doing here.
That's all I ask.
Tell me what I'm doing here.

Michael (03:39):
Yeah, before I get into the analysis of this, I do want to point out how much garbage is lying around.

Liz (03:46):
Really?

Michael (03:47):
What is with these kids?

Jimmy (03:49):
They got to get their town in order here.
That is pretty sloppy.

Michael (03:53):
They're bad citizens.

Harold (03:54):
That's kind of unusual, right?
We haven't seen that touch before.
I wonder what he's up to.

Michael (04:01):
They should be good citizens.

Harold (04:04):
Yeah, they got plenty of time waiting for this bus.

Michael (04:05):
Put it in the mailbox.

Liz (04:08):
No Lady Bird Johnson in 99.

Harold (04:11):
Yeah, or the crying ad.

Michael (04:14):
I do like to strip, this is like the pure existential question.
I mean, it's taken him almost 50 years to boil it down to, what am I doing here?

Jimmy (04:26):
That's all I ask.

Harold (04:28):
Rerun seems to know how to get it to the nub really well there.
So, poor little guy.

Jimmy (04:35):
It's hard to imagine these strips without, like if he had not cooked up Rerun for this end of the run, you know, he seems to have be really kind of on low ebb for a lot of the other characters, but for whatever reason, Rerun's really doing it for him.

Harold (04:54):
I agree, yeah.
I mean, we're seeing a lot of repeated themes with everyone else, and occasionally he's got something fresh with the other characters, but Rerun is a surprise every seems like every time I see him, there's some little layer that comes out, and he's super endearing.
I'm glad Schulz found Rerun, or we rediscovered him maybe as a way to say it.

Jimmy (05:17):
Yeah, right, yeah.

Michael (05:18):
If Rerun wasn't in the strip, who would have that punch line?

Jimmy (05:22):
Sally.

Michael (05:24):
Okay, I was thinking maybe Woodstock.

Harold (05:29):
Do you think that Schulz would start to tweak characters as other characters fill in gaps and holes?
He'll take away something that was part of a character because it's more prevalent in another one?
Would Sally have gone there if we didn't have a rerun maybe?

(05:50):
Do you think that that's part of the thing?
He has the notes on the keyboard to play with all these different characters.
If one character comes out strong in a certain area where another character might have been the strongest, do you just lose that in the other character to some extent so they match?

Jimmy (06:06):
I've never considered that before, but it reminds me, when you work on Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck and all that stuff at Disney, the big five as they call it, Mickey, Donald, Goofy, Daisy, and Minnie, you get little booklets for each of the characters and it tells you their little history and their personalities, right?

(06:30):
But it's not their personalities like Donald is this.
It's Donald is this, but when Donald is with Mickey, Donald is this.
If Donald is with Mickey and Daisy is there, it is this.

Harold (06:43):
Really interesting.

Jimmy (06:44):
They've had that all accounted for.
And what's sort of funny about it, now, of course, no one's actually really looking at that stuff, I don't think, I think, because you don't need to, because those characters are so well-defined from everyone's just cultural memory that you sort of slip into it.
But it's, but it's, it's just something I thought of with you mentioning that.
So I think there's probably, even if he's not doing it and doing it consciously, there's probably some truth to it happening.

Harold (07:10):
Just sort of subconsciously.

Michael (07:11):
They all have their little roles to play and different strips.
But in the Disney stuff where they have like, when Donald's with Huey, he acts like this.
When he's with Dewey, he acts like this.

Jimmy (07:25):
Well, it does have when he's with Huey, Dewey, and Louie.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, right.
Because he has to be the leader and things can go wrong, but they can only go wrong to a certain degree.
And the kids can help him get out of it, but he has to make the big thing at the end, whatever the big move is.
I'm making that stuff up because I haven't read the Huey, Dewey, Louie, but that's the gist.

Harold (07:49):
It's stuff like that.

Michael (07:50):
But do you have freedom to use any of the characters?

Jimmy (07:55):
Well, within those, the Big Five universe, it's not like I could bring in Peter Pan or take them out.

Michael (08:00):
No, but can you bring in Horace Horace Galler or something?
Yeah.
You could.

Harold (08:05):
Or Uncle Scrooge, or General Hughes.

Jimmy (08:07):
No.
Well, first off, Uncle Scrooge is the easiest and most fun to write for, by far.
Because it could be anything.
Mickey Mouse is the second best, actually.
But I did eventually get a rule that said we can't use Uncle Scrooge, and that was for some other reason, like some publishing plan that he was being used someplace else.

Harold (08:27):
I see.
So they've kind of doled him out somewhere else and he's off limits for now.
Well, I go to your point about, each of these Disney characters is different around the other characters.
Then some people say, certain people or maybe all of us are different based on who we are around.
We just naturally are different depending on whether we're a father or a friend or a work colleague.

(08:53):
Yeah.
So all of that, I guess, it's not artificial if, say, a Schultz is changing these characters around once somebody's stepping into that space.

Jimmy (09:03):
I think if you're consistent with the inconsistencies, it's what makes something seem real and alive.

Harold (09:10):
And we've certainly seen that with Schultz, right?
We've had some surprises where you would say that's out of character, but because we're used to the characters being so complex, we tend to embrace it more than, say, if it happened in Beetle Bailey.
Like, wait a second.

Jimmy (09:26):
Yes.

Harold (09:27):
Why is Beetle super industrious?

Jimmy (09:29):
In this one episode, right?

Harold (09:30):
What's he doing?

Jimmy (09:31):
Yeah, no, I definitely think that there's truth to that.
September 11th, Rerun and his friend, the little pig-tailed girl is sitting at the table in kindergarten drawing.
The little pig-tailed girl says, what are those round things?
And then Rerun says, people faces.
And he looks at his drawing with pride and says, I'm drawing a football stadium filled with 60,000 fans.

(09:57):
And the little girl says, I only see 10.
To which Rerun says, parking was a problem.

Harold (10:04):
Rerun thinks fast.
He's very adaptable when it comes to his art, lining up with whatever reality is forcing itself upon him.

Jimmy (10:14):
Yes.

Harold (10:15):
I like that.

Jimmy (10:16):
Yeah.

Michael (10:17):
But certain artists would actually draw 60,000 fans.
I'm thinking of Evan Dorkin.
One of his last things he did was a parody of the San Diego Comic-Con.

Jimmy (10:28):
Last, is he dead?

Michael (10:30):
No, no, no.

Jimmy (10:31):
Oh, well, he can't have it.

Michael (10:32):
Yeah, I know.
I phrased that like he was.
But anyway, he did a shot of the San Diego Comic-Con.
And I swear there must be like 500 people walking around.
And they all have, they're all doing something.
They all have personalities.

Harold (10:45):
Maybe that's why Chris Ware sticks with domestic stories.

Jimmy (10:51):
September 13th, Rerun has a bowl of soup and it's looking pretty hot.
And then he sits down with his sister at the table and they're eating their soup.
And Lucy says to him, do you have to do that?
And Rerun says, it's hot.
Now, we're not seeing anything, but we kind of have Rerun's mouth slightly open so perhaps we can glean from that that he's blowing on his soup.

(11:12):
But anyway, the strip starts for real in the next tier where Lucy says, it's impolite to blow on your soup.
And then Rerun says, but it's hot.
And then Lucy says, it's still impolite.
And then Rerun takes a little sip of his soup and then it's sent flying.
Oh, he screams, my tongue, my throat, my stomach, water, water, water, oh.

(11:37):
And then he is grasping for like just, you know, his sea legs behind the chair.
And he finally stumbles back onto the chair, looking totally disheveled and dazed.
And Lucy says, that's also impolite.

Michael (11:53):
I never pictured Lucy as somebody who was really concerned with politeness.

Jimmy (11:59):
It's just happy to boss someone around in any field, you know.

Michael (12:04):
Yeah, just insult people for no reason.

Harold (12:09):
Poor Rerun.
This is a great strip.
This is a really classic one.
I could see this happening to Linus years ago.
And it's cool to see a strip like this with Rerun.
We've talked a lot about the roughness of the drawing in these later years.
And I was just thinking about that when I was going back through the strips, looking at the Anger and Happiness Index, just kind of just going through them really quickly.

(12:35):
You know, once you're into it, yeah, that roughness is just part of the furniture of the strip.
I really did think it was, for the most part, going to be this pall that's kind of hanging over the strip as I was reading them.
But I'm so pulled into the characters and the humor and what's going on.

(12:57):
You notice it, at least I notice it, but it's not creating that kind of sad feel.
Because you'd pop in, like, I haven't seen Peanuts in a long time.
Then some 1995 or six strip, you'd open up a Sunday newspaper and you'd see Peanuts back in the day.
And it would just jump out at you, because my memory is from like 60s and 70s Peanuts.

(13:19):
And it's like, whoa.
But now that I'm in it, it's not a big deal.
So I can see people who've kind of grown up with this version of Peanuts.
Like it was so heavily featured at that licensing expo was that that kind of line.
It's just that's just what it is.
Yeah.
And I'm kind of glad for that.
I was hoping it wasn't going to be a downer to be reading these at the end, but it's not.

Jimmy (13:45):
So this gets me back to something I wanted to talk about a long time ago.
Then somehow it never you never got around to it, but I can bring it up now.
One thing Michael and I both like a lot that we don't talk about very much on this podcast is the Beach Boys.
And there was a famous campaign, ad campaign in the 1970s.
This Brian is back thing, setting the scene very briefly.

(14:08):
If you don't know anything about the Beach Boys, Brian Wilson was the primary songwriter, had a nervous breakdown in like 1964, stayed home to work on the music.
But, you know, we got sicker and sicker over the years.
And eventually, you know, ended up spending like three years in bed.
When he came back and was going to produce records, there was a huge ad campaign.

(14:29):
Brian is back, the guy who made pet sounds and stuff like this.
And then this album, Love You came out.
Now, Michael, explain what about you.
So you heard that ad campaign, correct?

Michael (14:39):
Oh, yeah.

Jimmy (14:40):
All right.
And there was no reason to not believe it, right?
Because why not?
It's great.
He was doing interviews.

Michael (14:46):
Well, we all believe in miracles.

Jimmy (14:48):
Yeah.

Michael (14:48):
And so, you know, whenever there was a Beach Boy album, it was like, well, maybe they'll get back to what they were doing.
And they never did.
And then this campaign came along and he was heavily featured in these ads and it sounded like the album.
He was going to write and sing like the entire album with the Beach Boys.

(15:13):
Yes, I remember the day when we got it.
I was actually at a workplace where we had a record player.
We all sat in one room and we all brought in records and there was a bunch of Beach Boy fans there.
So we had that and it was just like sinking feeling from like the first song, like Brian is not back.

(15:36):
But Jimmy likes the album.

Jimmy (15:38):
No, but here's what I want to say.
I don't like, it's not like I'm sitting around going, yeah, but what is interesting is, so that's how Michael was introduced to that album.
The guy who made Pet Sounds is back.
I bought the re-release knowing nothing about it in 2000.
I bought it just because it had liner notes from Peter Buck of REM.

(15:59):
His liner notes are like, this is my favorite Beach Boys album.
This is an indefensible position.
He's like, these albums have this great orchestration.
This is beautiful.
He's like, this album's weird.
This album's vulnerable.
This album has flat notes and it's all synthesizers.
I knew what it was going into it.

(16:19):
So I was able to find things to appreciate about it.
If I read those liner notes and it was Brian is back, I would have been unable to finish the record.
My point about all of this is that I do think there is some value to us doing these later strips because no one puts them in context and no one has ever put them in context, really, in a really cohesive way.

(16:45):
Because sometimes when an artist goes on for a long time and changes over a long time, ages, like we all do, you need someone to hold your hand a little bit and say, check out this thing over here, check out this thing over there.
And no, you're not going to see this thing that you remember, but isn't it interesting in its own right?

(17:05):
And I think that's really important rather than Brian is back, which is like, if we said, this is exactly like the Peanuts of the 60s, that would not be a service to anyone, you know?

Harold (17:16):
Yeah.

Jimmy (17:17):
Even Schulz.

Michael (17:18):
Yeah, and he's not trying to do that.

Jimmy (17:20):
Yeah, right.

Harold (17:21):
Yeah.
And to see that as going in context, doing the Great Peanuts reread over time and how everything is slowly segueing into the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, it does make sense.
You know, you're not jarred into this.
This is its own natural progression of Schulz's creativity.

(17:46):
And in its own right, that's fascinating.
He is changing as an artist all 50 years.
He's doing this.
And you can't always say that in discernible ways about other artists.
Sometimes they'll just get into a rut.
They can't get out.

Michael (18:05):
Very few people have managed that.
And generally, you know, there's going to be a decrease in quality.
I mean, Brando's latest movies were last movies, were kind of laughable.
It's hard to imagine him being like considered like the greatest actor.

Jimmy (18:22):
Yeah, and you say, here's the Isles of Dr.
Moreau or whatever.

Michael (18:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's a fairly typical career path for most people.
Yeah, I mean, Schulz stayed in the spotlight, probably because the papers were still going out to everyone.

Harold (18:44):
Well, and we know all of that merchandising and all the other things that represented peanuts were going as strong as ever before, right?

Michael (18:52):
But as far as the strip goes, people did not have to go out and search for the new peanuts.

Jimmy (18:58):
Right.

Harold (18:58):
It didn't fade away into the darkness.

Jimmy (19:01):
That's so important that I don't think any of us really think about that.
What an unbelievable opportunity is that to be in those newspapers where people are just having them delivered hundreds of millions of people being delivered to your house every day.

Harold (19:18):
That is so rare.
Having worked at Archie Comics, I can say the same thing.
I was like, do you guys realize what a unique position we are in that we are at the checkout counters of thousands and thousands of grocery stores and drug stores all across North America where whenever we want to put out something new, we don't have to fight for that slot.

(19:44):
We've had it for 25 years.

Jimmy (19:47):
Yeah.

Harold (19:47):
You know, and then maybe because people know we're in them, someone else will come and say, hey, you want to have an open-ended invitation to be right at where people are buying stuff, standing in line to pay for it.
I mean, that in the world of comics on the on that side of things, the comic book side of things is unprecedented.
Right.

(20:08):
That's amazing.
That is super, super rare and you're right.
I mean, who else in the world of comics has had that now?
I mean, the closest thing is that people sign up with their, say, an Instagram feed or whatever, and they might get 30 percent of the strips.

Jimmy (20:25):
Well, yeah, because that's the thing.
You're a slave to whatever that algorithm is.

Michael (20:30):
Also, there were no critics.
I mean, movies.

Jimmy (20:34):
Oh, wait, say that again.
Oh, man.
Wow.

Michael (20:37):
I thought it was the Comics Journal, which nobody read.

Jimmy (20:41):
Nobody cared, right?
It was just cartoonists read it.

Michael (20:44):
Yeah.
No, it's not like, you know, a Broadway play.
You know, I don't know if it's that way, a musical that way anymore.
But basically, there was like three New York critics who could destroy a project that had been worked on for years just in one night.
Yeah.
TV critics, movie critics, book critics.

(21:08):
There were no comic strip critics.

Harold (21:11):
Yeah, it's true.
And why would you if they're just there and they're always going to be there?
And it was considered a commodity that was immune to critique.

Jimmy (21:22):
Yeah.
It is literally in people's estimation, throughout the 20th century, one step above pornography.
I mean, like, that's about it, you know?
Gangsters are publishing it.
Yeah, the government wants to ban it.
Nobody wants any of this stuff, but people love it and seem to have a need for it.

(21:44):
I don't know.

Harold (21:45):
And having said what I kind of opened this discussion, you know, in three broad categories, somebody who's been doing a strip for a long time, there is the one who gets in the rut.
There's the one who continues to do what they've always done, and it's consistently good, but there's not a lot of surprise, right?
Because it's the same thing.

Jimmy (22:05):
Yeah.

Harold (22:06):
And so you can continue to be at that level all the way through and just a consistent artist.
And then there are the artists who explore.
Sometimes you can actually go off the edge, right?
You hit a sweet spot and then you kind of lose the sweet spot.
But you're still doing something new.
And then here's Schulz who's, you know, it's arguable, but I think he's doing very worthwhile stuff now that is fresh and different and certainly is not represented in any of the run strips before that.

(22:38):
Yeah.

Jimmy (22:40):
September 16th, we're in the classroom with Peppermint, Patty and Franklin, and they're taking a test.
And of course, because it's the Peppermint, Patty world, cheating, Peppermint, Patty says, Psst, Franklin, what did you put down for number six?
Franklin says, I put down eight.
And Peppermint, Patty says, eight?
Eight what?

(23:01):
Franklin says, eight nothing, just eight.
And then Peppermint, Patty says, I put down 12 elephants.
And Franklin just turns fully around and says, how could you put down 12 elephants in a spelling test?
To which Peppermint, Patty says, what room are we in?

Harold (23:19):
How could you put down eight in a spelling test?
Well, if you have to spell the word eight, but if he says spell eight and then he says I put down eight, I was like, am I tripping?

Michael (23:31):
No, this is very, very-

Harold (23:32):
Franklin's answer makes no more sense.

Michael (23:35):
Very confusing.

Harold (23:37):
Because usually a spelling test is someone's giving you it orally, right?

Jimmy (23:40):
What would have to be kept in?

Liz (23:43):
It could just be the number.

Harold (23:44):
Or there's some other thing is what is six plus two?
Spell it out, is it?
I guess we could have added some weird little mind kind of thing.

Jimmy (23:53):
That's true.
Who knows with this school?

Harold (23:56):
Yeah, right.
This teacher, Franklin, Peppermint, Patty are up against who knows what insanity.

Jimmy (24:03):
Look how smooth that line on her hair is in panel two though.
Crazy.

Harold (24:09):
Yeah.
I was thinking also with the tremor, he doesn't have that luxury of the thicks and thins that he can get out of this line as much.
I see it every once in a while, but it's almost like he's got to pretty much have a fairly light touch, I guess, right now with what he's dealing with.
Because I don't know that pen.
Jimmy, you and I have messed with that pen point.

(24:32):
If you have a tremor and you're trying to get ink out of that onto Bristol board, which has kind of a plate finish, but it's cardboard.
You think in some ways you might fight the tremor by pushing harder, right?
But he's not doing that.
Apparently, that's not working for him.

Jimmy (24:49):
Do you think if there were things like zebra brush pens?
I'm specifically thinking about the zebra brush pen.

Harold (24:57):
Yeah.

Jimmy (24:57):
As that is much more like a pen than a brush, but it still has that flexibility.
And you can, boom, press as hard as you want with that thing.
You get thigs and thins, and it really does reduce a hand tremor.
Take it from me.
Do you think he could have worked with something like that?
I mean, they didn't even exist really then.

Harold (25:16):
Isn't it weird?
Yeah, he might have made it look more like shoe or those kind of editorial cartoons, grungy lines that are kind of rough and blotchy.
And as an artist, who knows?
I mean, I totally could have seen Schulz adjusting it.
It's interesting that if he experimented with other tools to deal with the issue he was dealing with, we don't know about it.

(25:42):
It never wound up in the strip to my knowledge, right?
Could he have found a nib that was harder and didn't have that give and that would somehow help him?
Or like you say, kind of softer, super soft and malleable.
And then you can kind of live inside of this thick line that you're making and hide the tremor.

(26:05):
But he chose to stick with the...
I think there might be an integrity issue to the strip that Schulz is trying to retain by having the same tool.
I don't know.

Jimmy (26:16):
Yeah, or just it's his mystical tool and he's sticking with it.
It's his lightsaber, you know?

Harold (26:21):
And he bought 7,000 boxes.

Jimmy (26:23):
Yeah, that's right.

Harold (26:23):
He did buy a company.

Jimmy (26:25):
He's like, oh really?
You're going to use a marker?

Harold (26:31):
Of course, he could have been gone into some sort of business.
Buy the pen nibs Charles Schulz used.

Jimmy (26:37):
Stand on a street corner in Santa Rosa.
Buddy, you need some Radio 914.
September 18th, good old Peppermint Patty school again, and she's asleep, so Marcy is of course messing with her, and she has balanced on the top of Peppermint Patty's nose, the three books, a triangle, which I invite anyone to actually try to balance a triangle like that, and then is putting what looks like possibly an eraser on top of the triangle on this little tower that's balanced precariously on Peppermint Patty's nose, and then in panel two, Peppermint Patty screams, I'm awake, sending Marcy and all the stuff that she had balanced on her nose flying.

(27:23):
And then in the last panel, we see Peppermint Patty and Marcy outside the principal's office.
Peppermint Patty is falling asleep again, and Marcy is rebuilding the tower on Peppermint Patty's head.

Harold (27:36):
It's a great visual gag.
It's fun.

Jimmy (27:38):
I think that's really funny.
And like, because it is a visual gag, and it also says so much about their personalities, you know?

Harold (27:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's definitely playing off of their personalities.
And why do you think there's so little gutter between these panels?
This is like such minimal gutter that I've not seen before on this trip.

Jimmy (27:59):
Yeah, I don't know.
Well, it's no.
Look, Helen, is it any different than the one before?

Harold (28:05):
Yeah.

Michael (28:06):
Get your mind out of the gutter, you know?
Nobody's noticing these things.

Jimmy (28:12):
That's true.
There's slightly less nothing than there was last.
September 19th.
So we have Snoopy the lawyer back in the courthouse.
And this time, he is representing a scarecrow.
And the scarecrow is in the courtroom right next to him.

(28:35):
And Snoopy says, Yes, Your Honor, my client was standing alone in the field minding his own business.
Suddenly, without warning, he was attacked by three of the farmers' crows.
He says to stop scattering straw on the floor.
Snoopy says to this.
Now, do you know what made this, the reason I want to talk about this?
This made me realize Alice in the strip where Snoopy is defending Alice is a doll.

(29:01):
I think that's what's going on.
I think that was a prop Snoopy was using, just like the scarecrow is a prop Snoopy is using.

Harold (29:10):
So he needs a prop for his imaginary world.
He's not going to have a real.

Jimmy (29:15):
If you just happen to see what, you know what I mean?
Because that's the only way that would possibly make sense.
And I feel like this is going back to it going, oh, maybe it wasn't clear last time, you know?
And this is more clear.
Now, do you guys get this?
Like the three of the, why does the farmer have three crows?

(29:35):
Like that's obviously part of the joke, but I don't get that.

Michael (29:39):
I don't think it's part of the joke.
I don't think there is a joke.

Jimmy (29:42):
Well, I do, yeah, because I think, here's what I'm thinking.
In the real, in our world, scarecrows are purchased by the farmer and stand in the field to scare away the crows.
And in this world, he's like, the scarecrow just is out there.
And he assumes the farmer sent the crows to attack him.

Harold (30:02):
I think Snoopy doesn't understand farming.

Jimmy (30:05):
I think so.
I think that sounds good.
September 27th.
It's a Sunday.
It's at night and Snoopy hops down off the doghouse and goes over to Woodstock's pad and he says, are you awake?
Woodstock is now.
And Snoopy says, come on, you've got to see this.
The big full moon in the background.

(30:25):
And then they're running across the terrain and Snoopy says, the moon is bright and there's a chill in the air.
Now they're running down a path through what looks like the woods or a park or something.
And Snoopy says, this way, stay close behind me.
And then they're ducking behind a bunch of bushes and a rock.
And Snoopy says, kind of spooky, isn't it?

(30:46):
And then we see a whole one, two, three, four, five, six little birds driving tiny little zambonis coming out of a cave.
And Snoopy says, see, this is the time of night the zambonis come out.

Michael (31:00):
And sadly enough, there was a little note that said, this is the last zamboni trip.

Jimmy (31:09):
Zamboni, we hardly knew you.

Harold (31:11):
So many last zambonis.

Michael (31:13):
I was not even aware of such things existed.
So my world view has been broadened by reading these Peanuts trips.

Jimmy (31:23):
I think many people in the world only know the name of them anyway, right?
Because of Peanuts.

Harold (31:29):
Which I think is a brand name, right?

Jimmy (31:31):
I imagine, yeah.

Harold (31:32):
They're going to lose their trademark if he keeps doing this.

Liz (31:36):
I only know it from the Moxie Fruvous song.

Harold (31:40):
Moxie Fruvous?

Liz (31:41):
Yep.

Harold (31:42):
What's that?

Liz (31:44):
It was a wonderful band, probably still is, but a Canadian band.
And they had a song called King of Spain that referred to a Zamboni.

Jimmy (32:03):
That is, do you know what I mean?

Harold (32:04):
Canadian band, yeah.

Jimmy (32:06):
I have not heard that name probably in what, 25, 30 years maybe.
And it's so strange, like reaching, like, what was, oh, prefab sprout.
The name, words just popped into my mind and I was like, that was a band, wasn't it?
And I looked them up and they had like 100 albums.

(32:27):
I haven't thought about them for 30 years.
I played one, it was terrible.

Michael (32:30):
Yeah, well, we saw those guys twice.

Jimmy (32:34):
Prefab sprout?

Michael (32:35):
No, no, no, it must be for us.
We're big fans.
And then they had an album.
And I remember buying the album and it was like totally dead.

Liz (32:45):
It was like, yeah, live and they were great.

Michael (32:47):
Yeah.

Jimmy (32:48):
Yeah, it's weird how some things just don't translate their record like that.
October 1st, we have a sequence here where Spike is in the hospital and he's being cared for by a little girl named Naomi.
And Spike is waking up here with an IV in his arm.
And Naomi says to him, Spike, are you awake?
It's me, Naomi.

(33:10):
I saw your name inside your collar.
Little exposition.
Good job, Naomi.
My mom is the vet here.
And then Naomi says to her mom off panel, he's still asleep, mom.
And then she ends with, look, he was wearing Mickey Mouse shoes.
Schulz is all in on the Mickey Mouse shoes with Spike.

(33:31):
That is a big thing.

Harold (33:32):
Yeah, because at first, this sequence seemed to be alluding to, like, what was the name of that special with the combined live action and the animation with Peanuts in it?

Jimmy (33:46):
The girl in the red pickup truck or something like that.

Harold (33:49):
Yeah, because Spike's involved in that one, right?
I watched it way back in when.
And so now he's got this sequence where he's going to go to, he's basically going to Hollywood, right?
And see if he could, a girl in a convertible would come take him home.
That's the first thing I thought of when I saw this sequence.
And then, sure enough, he goes to, apparently to Hollywood.

(34:15):
And a couple girls see him and one of them helps him out when he has to go to the hospital, because apparently he was a mainge.
Which is strange for Spike, because you get mainge from other animals, and he's like the one animal who's not around other animals.

Jimmy (34:35):
I must have got rubbed up against by a rogue coyote.

Harold (34:39):
Maybe so.
But a very odd sequence.

Jimmy (34:43):
Yeah, really weird.
I think he was still, was definitely thinking about specials and animation and all kinds of stuff like that.
Because in the Groth interview, he talks about wanting to do the animation for the Charlie Brown saving the kids marbles.
So, you know, and that was 97.
So he was still thinking about those things.

Harold (35:02):
Yeah, no question that you can't, how can you not?
You have this empire, people are like, what is, what's our next animated special?
It's like, I don't know.

Michael (35:11):
I don't know.

Jimmy (35:14):
October 15th, Lucy is leaning up against Schroeder's piano, and Schroeder is plunking away, and Lucy says, let's say we're married, and my dad has offered you a million dollar a year job with his company.
And then Lucy continues, but let's say you insist on playing your stupid piano and some sleazy joint.
And so then Schroeder just, of course, pulls the piano out from under her, sending Lucy sprawling clunk right on her head.

(35:41):
And then she's lying there.
She says, I never get to the part about the limo and the free lunches.

Michael (35:49):
This stick here has not changed.
I think of all the bits he's created, this is the most consistent.

Harold (35:57):
It is consistent.
Yeah, that and the pulling the football away, those are two classics.

Jimmy (36:03):
So Lucy's dad owns a company that has employees that make a million dollars a year.
And that he can give out to people, the ne'er do well is like Schroeder here.

Harold (36:14):
I want to know about the free lunches.

Liz (36:17):
No such thing.

Jimmy (36:17):
Well, no, I'm seriously asking though, are we supposed to believe that's a possibility would be with Lucy's parents or is Lucy just?

Michael (36:25):
No, I think it's the Van Peltz, come on.

Liz (36:27):
Well, but she could certainly be imagining things.

Michael (36:31):
Yeah, I think it's all a fantasy here, including the million dollars.

Harold (36:34):
That name suggests great wealth and maybe they're just wanting to have the kids to grow up in a suburban neighborhood.
So they're choosing.

Jimmy (36:43):
And they pick this one.
Oh, so we were talking a few episodes ago, someone said there could have been a John Hughes peanuts movie.
All right, here's the move, though.
If you're peanuts worldwide, this is another freebie for you.
Yeah, you're welcome.
You call up Wes Anderson and you do the Vam Pelt.

Harold (37:05):
That would be something else.

Jimmy (37:08):
He would crush it.
Not your silly stop motion, Wes.
We got it.

Harold (37:13):
No, no, no.

Jimmy (37:14):
We want actors.

Liz (37:16):
Yes.

Jimmy (37:16):
I think they'd be great.

Liz (37:17):
Yeah, that's a good idea.

Jimmy (37:20):
So I'll tell you what, we're about halfway through.
Why don't we take a break there and come on back and finish up these strips and talk about the end of the year, the anger happiness index, all kinds of good stuff.

Liz (37:33):
Sounds good.

Harold (37:34):
Sounds good.

Jimmy (37:35):
All right.
We'll be back in a minute.

Liz (37:37):
Hi, everyone.
We love it when you write or call to tell us how much you enjoy the show.
But don't just tell us, tell your friends, tell complete strangers, share your appreciation in a review.
It doesn't have to be on Apple Podcasts.
60 percent of you listen on other apps.
Some of those apps have review sections.

(37:57):
Think of all the poor Peanuts fans out there who haven't found us yet.
There are review instructions on our website at unpackingpeanuts.com/spread the word.
Thank you for your support.
Now, let's hear what some of you have to say.

Harold (38:14):
We're back.

Jimmy (38:15):
Hey, Liz, I'm hanging out in the mailbox.
Do I got anything?

Liz (38:18):
We do.
We heard from Andrew Cadell who writes, hey guys and Liz, I was reading Pearls Before Swine by Stephen Pastis the other day, and remembered the story he told about meeting Charles Schulz.
It was back in 96 when Stephen was fed up with being an attorney and abandoned his legal files for the day and drove to Santa Rosa hoping to bump into Mr.

(38:40):
Schulz.
He found him in the cafe eating an English muffin.
They talked for an hour, Schulz posed for a picture and he gave Pastis hope that one day he could achieve his dream of being a syndicated cartoonist.
It was all the inspiration Pastis needed.
I was wondering what your thoughts were on Pearls Before Swine as it is very popular and has won the Rubin.

Harold (39:02):
Yeah, it's really funny.

Jimmy (39:03):
It is really funny.
I wished that that strip had the space of even just 10 or 15 years before, like in physical space, I mean, in a newspaper.
Because I think he has a really creative and fun drawing style.
It's very graphic.
I think it would be even better if he had more room to play with it.

(39:25):
But this strip is something that's so well thought of that Bill Watterson came out of retirement to draw a few episodes of it as a guest.
I'm pro Pearls Before Swine.

Harold (39:36):
Yeah, it was a real brother fresh air when it came out.
He has a certain deadpan humor that is all his own.
We hadn't seen that in, I think, the newspaper pages before and it felt very up-to-date modern.

Jimmy (39:53):
Yeah.

Harold (39:53):
In a world where we had a lot of legacy strips that had been around for decades and just-

Jimmy (39:57):
Yeah.
It felt to me like the energy and spirit of something like Bloom County.
But for the 90s and 2000s, although I guess just 2000s, I can't remember what year that started, but very good.

Liz (40:15):
We heard from Rocky and Yipper who writes, if anyone is curious, the strip about Snoopy on the Ice in January 56, I'm pretty sure the strip the guys are referring to about a reused gag is from Sunday, July 24th, 1955.
Instead of skating, it's about jump roping.

Jimmy (40:36):
Oh, okay.

Liz (40:38):
So he does reuse them occasionally.

Jimmy (40:41):
Yeah, well, you know, I don't blame him.

Harold (40:45):
Right.
It's kind of classic.
Come on.

Jimmy (40:48):
I've reused some of his jokes.

Harold (40:51):
Yeah.
It's called stealing.
No, swiping.
What is it?
Honoring?
Apologies, to-ing.

Jimmy (41:01):
Yeah, with apologies.

Liz (41:04):
Stephen Antonelli writes, I listened to the May 27th podcast on my walk in Central Park this morning.

Jimmy (41:11):
Nice.

Liz (41:12):
Early in the episode, you spoke about Charles Schulz's role in the strip, his thoughts, his voice, etc.
This gave me a different take on the strip, in which Rerun is describing his art project.
It was implied that the last line, it all takes place in a meadow, was Rerun's attempt to shoehorn his work into the instructions given by the teacher.

(41:35):
However, I immediately began recalling all the war movies we've seen, in which following vivid scenes of violence and destruction, natural beauty slowly arises.
The birds return, a gentle breeze moves through the trees, the deer quietly walk through.

Jimmy (41:53):
No, yeah, that's a good observation.
I can absolutely see this made me this slightly off topic.
But speaking of war movies, I mentioned that I was on my kick of watching nothing but nihilistic 1970s movies, and I finished it up with a triple feature.
Godfather one, palate cleanser of the exorcist, and Godfather two.

Liz (42:18):
Whoa.

Harold (42:20):
How were your dreams?

Jimmy (42:22):
I slept like a baby.
There's something about, these are fears from another time, and nihilism from another time.
Like if they were brand new.

Harold (42:31):
Think how bad things were in the 70s, that we were making movies like this.

Jimmy (42:34):
Yeah, right.
It's not now.

Harold (42:36):
Right.

Jimmy (42:37):
But it made me think, Michael, a few episodes ago, you said comics are an art form that devolved.
And I thought, actually, I think maybe all of them have devolved, because right after that triple feature, I watched the new Captain America movie.
And what's so funny is, even though those three movies are dark and depressing and exhilarating, but they're also exhilarating aesthetic experiences.

(43:02):
They're gorgeously active.
They unfold.
They look great.
Captain America is trying to be like a fun time and it's just depressing, because it feels like it's just...

Harold (43:12):
Mass destruction, as always, right?
Yeah.
Talk about war, you know, that's...

Jimmy (43:17):
And played for laughs almost.
Well, that's the thing.

Harold (43:20):
Yeah.
It's like, what do you...
destruction porn or something.

Jimmy (43:25):
Yeah.

Liz (43:25):
Well, yes.

Jimmy (43:26):
And that's very much what the end of this movie is.
And it also looks like it takes place in a Sears portrait studio.

Liz (43:32):
Oh.

Jimmy (43:33):
Like, because the...
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_4 (43:34):
Oh, yeah.

Jimmy (43:35):
It's just...

Harold (43:36):
They forgot to airbrush out the Olin Mills.

Jimmy (43:40):
Yeah, right.
Exactly.
It was...
And I just thought, wow, this is...
We've come...
We've fallen quite far.

Harold (43:48):
That's interesting.
Anyway.

Jimmy (43:50):
Yeah, that's a great observation about the war.
I think you could be on to something there.

SPEAKER_4 (43:54):
Yeah.

Liz (43:55):
And that's it for the mail.

SPEAKER_4 (43:57):
All right.

Jimmy (43:57):
We got nothing from the old hotline.
So, if you want to keep this conversation going, though, there's a couple of different ways.
One, you can call the hotline or leave a message there.
That number is 717-219-4162.
And remember, if you leave a text, please identify yourself so we can identify you on air.
You can also send us an email to unpackingpeanuts.gmail.com and you can find us on social media, but I'll give you that spiel at the end of the episode.

(44:27):
So, with all that said, I think it might be time for good old 1998's Happiness and Anger Index.

Harold (44:34):
Ooh, okay.
Well, we had some weird swings.
96, we had almost even.
Anger and Happiness was 79 and 82 strips.
The Angry and Happy.
Then in 97, for some reason, Anger went up a lot to 102 strips and Happiness dropped quite a bit to 64, which was what we might call an all-time low for Happiness.

(45:02):
Did this feel any different to this year 98, as we're getting to the end of the run?

Jimmy (45:09):
I feel like I want to say Happiness is up, but I think it might be the same thing I'm just describing about seeing those old movies.
I think I'm happier.
You know what I mean?
But maybe the characters aren't.

Harold (45:21):
Yeah.
Does the anger feel any different?
Is it pretty much like...

Jimmy (45:25):
I think they're both slightly up.

SPEAKER_4 (45:27):
Okay.

Harold (45:28):
Any thoughts, Michael?

Michael (45:30):
Well, I think it might have to do with certain characters getting more play than they did previously.
Rerun can express a lot of anger, and he seems to be in a lot more strips than he used to be.

SPEAKER_4 (45:46):
Yeah.

Michael (45:48):
So it might be up.

Harold (45:52):
Okay.
Well, as I said, there's 102 in anger in 97, and we're in between 96 and 97 and 98.
It's 91 strips angry, so down a little bit.
For happiness, we're pretty much back up to where we were in 96, went from 64 back up to 80.
Oh, so it did go up.

(46:12):
Yeah.
It evened out for 98.
It'll be interesting to see.
We've got basically one full year left, so let's see where it lands at the end, how he lands the plane.

Michael (46:23):
Yeah.

Harold (46:24):
All right.
So for those of you who might be able to make a trek out to Lancaster, Pennsylvania this October 2nd through-

Jimmy (46:33):
Lancaster.

Harold (46:34):
Lancaster.
How do you say it properly?
Give me the Pennsylvania pronunciation here.
Lancaster.
October 2nd to 5th, the East Coast Collectors Club, which is a really fun peanuts get-together.
If you want to hang out with other peanuts fans and see some of the coolest peanuts merch ever made, this is the place to be on the East Coast, hence East Coast Collectors Club.

(46:59):
Jimmy and I will be there.
We're going to give a presentation of some sort and we'll have-

Jimmy (47:04):
What do you mean of some sort?
We've been planning it, so it's going to be great.

Harold (47:09):
No, October 2nd through 5th, we will be there.
We will have tables as well.
See if you want to come and hang out and talk and say hi and see the books that we keep talking about that we worked on.
We shall have those there, but it does look like a lot of fun and the registration closes July 25th.
If you can plan ahead and join us there, we'd love to see you.

Jimmy (47:30):
That would be fantastic.
Maybe we can get Michael and Liz to zoom in.

Liz (47:34):
Oh, that would be cool.
Yeah, we can make that happen.

Jimmy (47:37):
Depending on the time of day, I guess.

Liz (47:39):
If there's the internet there.

Jimmy (47:42):
Yeah, in the heart of homage country.
There will be shoo fly pie though.

Harold (47:48):
I guarantee that.

Jimmy (47:50):
One of my favorite places in the world, actually.
Good old Lancaster, PA.

Harold (47:53):
It's cool.

Jimmy (47:55):
All right.
What do you say?
Should we get back to the strips?

Liz (47:57):
Let's do it.

Jimmy (47:59):
October 19, in class again with Marcy and Peppermint Patty.
This is a go-to this year.
And Marcy says to Patty, let's compare notes, sir, and see if we've got the same answers.
This class.

Harold (48:12):
Heavens.

Jimmy (48:13):
What is happening?

Harold (48:14):
This must be a Montessori school or something.

Jimmy (48:22):
So anyway, Marcy is there and she says, let's compare notes, sir, and see if we've got the same answers.
And then Pepper and Patty says, true, false, maybe, who knows?
Why not?

Harold (48:31):
Sure.

Jimmy (48:32):
When?
They did.
Sometime I did not.

Harold (48:35):
Who?

Jimmy (48:35):
Me?
It was dark and everyone was getting hungry.
And Marcy says, I don't know how you do it, sir.
And then Pepper and Patty says, never let them know where you're coming from, Marcy.
That's great advice.
Never let them know where you're coming from.

Harold (48:56):
Unless they need to pick you up at the airport.

Jimmy (49:02):
Harold, you're in fire.
Yes.
All right, October 25th, it's a Sunday, and Snoopy in Army helmet is atop his dog house with his machine gun, which believe it or not, we have seen before.

Harold (49:21):
That's a real big merch thing.
Big licensing thing.

Michael (49:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Harold (49:28):
Oh, man.

Jimmy (49:29):
So the next panel starts up with Snoopy on the dog house, and he hears something, his little ear lifts up, and he hears something in distance.
And then in the next panel, he says, the world famous watchdog is ever alert.
And then he jumps down off the dog house, and he walks over to the window and looks into Sally's room, and he wakes her up, woof.

(49:52):
And Sally looks at him and then she says, that's all right, everything is fine.
Thank you.
And then he goes to Charlie Brown's window and says woof.
And Charlie Brown wakes up and he says to Snoopy, that's okay, everything is all right.
You're a good watchdog, go back to sleep.
Then Snoopy just sighs and walks back to the dog house and goes back up on top of the dog house, lies down and thinks, you try to warn them that the world has gone mad, but they won't listen.

(50:20):
Prescient.
That's, well yeah.
And what?
That's a good strip.
And that's a good, that's a 74-year-old man's strip.
I don't think he would have written this as a 28-year-old or a 30-year-old.

Michael (50:35):
74-year-old man.

Jimmy (50:36):
Well, I just said, it's a good thing.
He said, it's a good thing.
You know what I mean?
This is a, this is a mature strip.
I love this strip.
I love it.
November 3rd, back in class with Peppermint Patty and Marcy.
And Peppermint Patty is holding up her textbook and saying, I love the feel of new books, Marcy.

(50:57):
The pretty covers, the print, even the smell.
And then Marcy says, do you ever read any of them?
And Peppermint Patty answers, do I ever what?
I picked this because there is nothing as pleasurable as the smell of new books from the printer.

Michael (51:14):
That's a quote from the apocalypse now.

Jimmy (51:17):
Oh, I love the smell of new books in the morning.

Harold (51:29):
I like the smell of new books in the morning as well.

Jimmy (51:36):
November 7th, Linus and Sally are sitting around in the snow outside and I assume Linus has made a whole bunch of tiny little snowmen as if they're having a big circle therapy session and one snowman's way off on the side and Sally says, he says he's never been much of a joiner.

(51:57):
Oh, that's really sad.

Michael (51:59):
It is really sad.
But maybe he doesn't want to be, but he does look sad.

Jimmy (52:04):
He does look sad.

Michael (52:05):
They're all smiling.

Jimmy (52:08):
They invited him.

Michael (52:10):
What is this dude gonna do?

Jimmy (52:10):
Drag him out?

Michael (52:12):
You know.
He wants to be alone.

Liz (52:15):
Yeah, but I want to be alone.

Jimmy (52:17):
He might also be looking at them like, hmm, that looks like some weird group therapy session.

Liz (52:23):
They're going to sing camp songs.

Harold (52:26):
Don't start a fire.

Jimmy (52:28):
I mean, I'm sure someone said to Manson, hmm, I'm not much of a joiner, you know what I mean?
Let's just leave it at that, okay?
Not much of a joiner.

Harold (52:39):
That's a beautifully, beautifully composed strip.

SPEAKER_4 (52:42):
Yeah.

Jimmy (52:43):
Yeah, it looks real good.
And that's hard to do when you have so much white space and a shaky line.

Harold (52:48):
His single panels, yeah, I'm really impressed with what he does with them.
Yeah.
Lots of surprises in them.

Jimmy (52:56):
November 11th.
Okay, Snoopy is, talk about in a field of battle.
He is in a field of battle and we see tanks and dirt everywhere and it's very unpeanutsy looking.
And then two adult male soldiers, drawn in a completely different style, are walking by.
They're both GIs and one of them says, I think the new replacements are getting smaller all the time.

(53:21):
And we see Snoopy next to them and he says, William Joe, my heroes.
Happy Veterans Day, men.
And we see an inscription that says, Schulz and my hero, Bill Malden.
Now, so, okay, well, there's a lot to talk about this.
So, Michael, I'm assuming you have something to say about this.

Michael (53:40):
Well, Schulz did not draw this.

Harold (53:43):
No.

Jimmy (53:45):
Well, Snoopy.
He drew Snoopy in the lettering.

Michael (53:47):
Yeah.
You could probably find this strip.
And, you know, the thing is they weren't horizontal.
So that tank in the corner wouldn't be in an upfront strip, which would turn more like square, square.

Jimmy (54:05):
Yeah, I'm assuming this was composited together from a bunch of different things.
And I think, actually, I think Malden drew some of that background.
But I think maybe the stuff behind Snoopy is Schulz.

Michael (54:19):
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I recognize the two Malden figures.

Jimmy (54:22):
Sure.
Maybe he did the other stuff.
You know, yeah, I think he did do the wreckage, Schulz, but he didn't do the tank.
My point, one thing I want to talk about this as Ask Liz, a long, long time ago, in the early days of this podcast.
I don't know when it was.
Maybe it was like two weeks ago.
I have no sense of time.

(54:42):
But we were talking about the line quality and there's two chances the artist has to make the drawing look good.
There's a penciling and then thinking.
Now, when you see the two right next to each other, is it clearer the difference between the two?
When you see the lines on Snoopy versus the lines on Willie and Joe?

Liz (55:06):
Oh, okay.
I remember the conversation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Definitely.
I see what you're talking about.

Jimmy (55:14):
It makes a big difference in a visual medium to actually be able to see something as opposed to someone just roughly describing it, using their hands and stuff.

Michael (55:23):
Well, but there's a lot happening here because I suspect those figures, Willie and Joe, are severely reduced.

Jimmy (55:32):
Oh, yeah.

Harold (55:33):
I'm thinking that this actually might have been a collaboration strip where he sent this off to Bill and Bill drew what he was going to draw.
Do you really?

Michael (55:41):
I don't think so.

Harold (55:42):
Because, I mean, you see Bill Maldon.
Is that Bill's actual signature?
Like, does it look like it?

Jimmy (55:47):
It sure looks like it.

Michael (55:48):
Yeah.

Harold (55:49):
He just, this was a collab or whatever.

Michael (55:52):
I think Maldon's style changed too.
And clearly the two characters, that was his World War II style.
So he, Maldon might have put in the background elements.

Harold (56:05):
So this Maldon would have, I'm just thinking how old he would have been when this came out.

Jimmy (56:08):
Well, he lived all the way till 2003.

Harold (56:11):
So he would have been 77 or so?

Jimmy (56:17):
Yeah, he absolutely could have done this.
But I do think though, well, I always thought it was just a paystep job until you said it.
And I think possibly what Michael's saying is correct in that they have to be reduced.

Harold (56:34):
So he retired in 91.

Michael (56:36):
Yeah, there's my guess that Schulz, because this is the size panels he's using, and there's one panel strip.
I think he photocopied Willie and Joe figures, which they look familiar.
Shrunk them, pasted it on the thing, drew Snoopy, sent it to Malden, and then Malden finished the race.

Harold (57:01):
Well, according to a source out of The King from Wikipedia, he did use that image from a 1944 Malden panel.

Jimmy (57:13):
Oh, there you go.

Harold (57:14):
So that, what is that source?
Let's see, that's Nat Gertler, so it's got to be true.
Who knows it better than that?

Jimmy (57:22):
Well, and here's another telltale sign.
Actually, I do think Schulz did all, at the very least, the background abstractions.
I think he probably even did most of the lines on the ground and the foreground.
But the other way you can tell that these are reduced is that the tank and the men are reduced at different sizes.
Because you can see the line quality on the tank is totally different than the line quality on Willie and Joe.

(57:51):
But what an honor.
This guy has never ever included another artist like this, their own work and to have it in there, that's amazing.

Harold (58:02):
Alfred E.
Newman is the closest to that.

Jimmy (58:04):
Yeah, and even that was him doing it, right?

Harold (58:08):
Yeah, that is a real honor and we see Schulz really putting a lot of love and care into these World War II reminiscences and breaking the rules, and them to kind of make people notice them.

Jimmy (58:22):
Yeah.

Harold (58:23):
I think, you know, that's a distinct choice on his part to say, look, I want to say something and I want people to notice, I want people to talk about it, think about it.

Liz (58:34):
And a shout out to Paul Castiglia for the new replacements.

Jimmy (58:40):
Oh, the replacements of the man.
November 15th.
We have a symbolic panel.
Oh, it's one of the pullings away of the football and Charlie Brown's lying against the football and Lucy's sneaking around it.
And then she says, over here.
And the strip really starts up on the second tier where she says, of course, I'll hold the ball, Charlie Brown and you come running up and kick it.

(59:05):
And Charlie Brown says, I can do that.
And Lucy says, you can.
And Charlie Brown says, absolutely.
I have a new positive attitude.
And then Lucy says, I can't believe it.
You are truly amazing.
You talk the talk and you walk the walk.
And Charlie Brown runs for the football.
She, of course, pulls it away.
He lands on his back.

(59:26):
And Lucy concludes with, but you don't kick the kick.

Harold (59:31):
Even Tony Robbins can't kick a football.

Michael (59:35):
And I remember in where I found this strip, it did have that notation and it said, this is the last football strip.

Jimmy (59:44):
It's not.

Michael (59:47):
Yeah, I figured he's did it every year around this time.
He's got one more shot at it.

Jimmy (59:51):
Yeah, it's the ending of the football sequence is brilliant.
You couldn't have planned it better.
And it wasn't obviously planned.
But it works out really, really great.

Liz (01:00:06):
But no reading ahead.
Now, isn't that football like the size of a Pilates ball?

Jimmy (01:00:14):
I don't know.
I didn't know there was such a thing as a Pilates ball.

Liz (01:00:16):
Well, it's one of those giant things that you exercise on.

Jimmy (01:00:19):
Oh, okay.

Michael (01:00:21):
You're awfully little though.

Jimmy (01:00:23):
That's true.

Harold (01:00:24):
Well, that first, the symbolic panel football is one of the weirdest shaped footballs he's ever drawn.

Liz (01:00:30):
Coconut.
Or coffee bean.

SPEAKER_4 (01:00:35):
Yeah.

Jimmy (01:00:37):
November 23rd, Charlie Brown is sitting in the beanbag chair.
Sally comes up to him with a little piece of paper she's reading off of and says, I'm starting my own polling firm, see?
I wrote down what I think about everything.
And Charlie Brown says, are you going to go from house to house and ask other people what they think?
And Sally says, who cares what other people think?

Liz (01:00:59):
Amen.

Jimmy (01:01:01):
I was going to get that Snoopy dancing tattoo.
I think I'd get that instead.
Who cares what other people think?

Michael (01:01:11):
Boy, look how much his head shrinks.

Jimmy (01:01:16):
Really does.
Yeah, the scale, I think I said in our last episode, is one of the things that gets out of his control every now and again in these later days.
December 3rd, Rerun's in bed, and Lucy comes in to his room and says, go back to sleep, there's a blizzard outside, and all the schools are closed.
Then there's just a silent panel of Rerun lying in bed.

(01:01:38):
Then he rolls back over, closes his eyes and says, poetry.

Michael (01:01:43):
Growing up in LA was not fair.

Harold (01:01:47):
Sorry about that, Michael.

Michael (01:01:50):
We had smog days, but we didn't have snow days.

Liz (01:01:52):
Yeah, same at boarding school.

Jimmy (01:01:54):
Oh, yeah, I guess that's true if I never thought about it.
Well, you know, now just growing up in the 21st century, they really don't have them because you can just log on to Zoom, which is utterly useless.
Having lived through the pandemic with these Zoom classes.

Harold (01:02:11):
Yeah.

Jimmy (01:02:11):
I mean, they had to do something, but wow.

Harold (01:02:14):
But at least you don't have to rearrange your vacation schedule in June.

Jimmy (01:02:18):
Well, that's true.
Yes, that's true.
That's true.
But that's only if you went over three days, right?
That's how it was in PA anyway.
I think you got two or nine, I don't remember.
December 16th, Rerun is at Charlie Brown's door and he says, how would you like to buy a hand-drawn picture of Santa Claus?
And Charlie Brown says, this doesn't look like Santa Claus.

(01:02:39):
It looks more like Daffy Duck.
And Rerun walks by, walks back to his house dejected.
And then he's drawing at his kitchen table and Lucy comes up to him and Rerun says with excitement and joy, I'll bet you didn't know I can draw Daffy Duck.

Harold (01:02:56):
That's so neat.
I try to draw a character I'm so off I've created my own character.

Jimmy (01:03:04):
It works with me.
That's really funny.
I love Rerun the artist.
That just makes me laugh.

Harold (01:03:12):
He's so resilient when people give him feedback.

Jimmy (01:03:15):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And you know, that is something we could all learn as artists.
You got to take the criticism in stride.

Harold (01:03:27):
I want to see that drawing of Santa Claus.

Jimmy (01:03:30):
Yeah, I do too.
So that brings us to the end of the year.
We're going to get to our strips of the year and whatnot.
But first, I'm going to tell you the things I always tell you.
So if you want to keep this conversation going, there's a couple of things you should do.
First, go over to our website, unpackingpeanuts.com, and sign up for the great Peanuts reread.

(01:03:52):
So you could find out what we're going to do in the next couple episodes as we wrap this whole thing up, at least the initial run.
And you can also, you can send us an email there, or you can call our hotline, 717-219-4162, or you can leave a message there.
And of course, if you want to follow us on the social media, you can follow us on Instagram and threads where we're at Unpack Peanuts, and on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube where we're at Unpacking Peanuts.

(01:04:23):
So we would love to hear from you.
And remember, when I don't hear, I worry.
So with all that said, how about we hear your strips of the year and MVPs?
Who wants to go first?

Michael (01:04:35):
Well, I went back to the first strip we did in this very podcast, Nine-Nine.
And I think that's my strip of the year.
I really think that this sums up and well, actually adds to Rerun's worldview.

(01:04:55):
And I like the anguish and the angst.
Peanuts is all about angst as far as I'm concerned.
And Rerun really has got it.
He doesn't know what he's doing on this planet.
I think this is more than just what he's doing.

Jimmy (01:05:11):
Oh, for sure.

Michael (01:05:12):
I think he's...

Jimmy (01:05:13):
Oh, absolutely.

Michael (01:05:14):
Why is he alive?

Jimmy (01:05:15):
It is a cry, an existential cry.
Absolutely.

Michael (01:05:19):
All right, that's mine.
And I will also award Rerun probably for a third year in a row for most valuable Peanuts.
I haven't picked...
If I ever picked Snoopy, it may be back in the 50s.
But it seems like I very rarely pick Snoopy.

Jimmy (01:05:36):
Yeah, I have no idea who we picked year from year.
It'd be interesting to look and see what our lists are.

Michael (01:05:45):
Yeah, I mean Snoopy would be probably the most original character in comics.
But then again, I didn't ever think he dominated, but we'll see.

Harold (01:05:56):
Harold, what about you?
Well, I'm going to go with Rerun as well, Michael.
He's just so fresh and really what's adding the most unique new things to the strip in this end of the run.
And I give the strip of the year also to a Rerun strip from January 30th.

(01:06:18):
And I'll just have to read again what it is he says.
Vulnerably in between his brother and his sister, someone at school today asked me if I had an older brother who dragged a blanket around.
No, I replied, I'm an only child.
Then someone said, but don't you have a weird older sister?
No, I insisted, I'm an only child.

(01:06:41):
And so I go day after day dodging questions from curious outsiders.

Michael (01:06:47):
I love that.

Jimmy (01:06:49):
It is great.

Harold (01:06:49):
Oh my gosh, it's a rerun.

Jimmy (01:06:53):
Oh, those are great picks.
You know, I feel discussing these strips, it's like talking about greatest baseball players.
Obviously the answer is Babe Ruth, but you have to pick somebody else every once in a while just to see if you can have a conversation.
So I'm not going to pick Rerun.

Harold (01:07:08):
But what?

Jimmy (01:07:09):
I'm going to pick the little red haired girl because she made her one and only pseudo appearance this year.
We see her as an outline.
And then for my strip of the year, it's not the funniest one, but I'm going to pick the Willie and Joe one just for the sheer novelty of seeing another artist's art in Peanuts.

(01:07:32):
And I think it works better than say like the photograph of Eisenhower.
So, you know, it's a way to honor that time.

Harold (01:07:41):
So that's my pick.

Jimmy (01:07:42):
And we'd love to hear your pick.
So if you want, you can shoot us an email at any of those places.
We would love to hear from you.
Other than that, guys, are the three of you ready for the last full year of Peanuts?

Harold (01:07:55):
Wow.

Liz (01:07:57):
No.

Michael (01:07:59):
Well, yeah.
Yeah, I'm ready.

Jimmy (01:08:03):
All right.
Maybe we'll get to it right now.
What about you, Harold?

Harold (01:08:06):
I'm looking forward to it.
It's bittersweet, but I want to see where he takes it to the end.

Jimmy (01:08:12):
So, yeah, absolutely.
All right, guys, come back next week or we're starting 1999.
Until then, and we're going to party like it is 1999.

Liz (01:08:24):
Yeah.

Jimmy (01:08:25):
So until then, for Michael, Harold and Liz, this is Jimmy saying, be a good cheer.
Yes.

Liz (01:08:30):
Be a good cheer.
Unpacking Peanuts is copyrighted by Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz and Liz Sumner.
Produced and edited by Liz Sumner.
Music by Michael Cohen.
Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show, follow Unpacked Peanuts on Instagram and threads.

(01:08:52):
Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky and YouTube.
For more about Jimmy, Michael and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Have a wonderful day and thanks for listening.

Harold (01:09:03):
Am I tripping?