December 17, 2024 • 35 mins
The gang takes a look at the strips and sequences that inspired the second Peanuts Christmas Special. Strips from the 70’s to the early nineties are covered making this a great overview of the second half of the Peanuts comic. Plus: George quits the band.
Many thanks to tarvinneeko mainitakaan on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@tarvinneekomainitakaan
Transcript available at UnpackingPeanuts.com
Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner. Produced and edited by Liz Sumner. Music by Michael Cohen. Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show follow @unpackpeanuts on Instagram and Threads, and @unpackingpeanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube. For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Thanks for listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
VO (00:06):
Welcome to Unpacking Peanuts, the podcast where three cartoonists take an in-depth look at the greatest comic strip of all time, Peanuts by Charles M.
Schulz.
Jimmy (00:23):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the show.
It's Unpacking Peanuts and Tis the Season.
So today we're gonna be taking a look at the second Charlie Brown Christmas Special, the one you don't watch every year.
It's Christmas time again, Charlie Brown.
I'll be your host for the proceedings.
My name is Jimmy Gownley.
I'm also a cartoonist who did things like Seven Good Reasons Not to Grow Up, The Dumbest Idea Ever and Amelia Rules.
(00:47):
And you can read my brand new comic, Tanner Rocks, over there on gvillcomics.substack.com and you can do it for free.
And joining me as always are my pals, co-hosts and fellow cartoonists.
He's a playwright and a composer, both for the Man Complicated People as well as for this very podcast.
He's the co-creator of the original comic book prize guide, the original editor for Amelia Rules, and the creator of such great strips as Strange Attractors, A Gathering of Spells and Tangled River.
(01:14):
It's Michael Cohen.
Michael (01:15):
Say hey.
Jimmy (01:16):
And he's the executive producer and writer for Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie Comics and the creator of the Instagram sensation, Sweetest Beast.
It's Harold Buchholz.
Harold (01:26):
Hello.
Jimmy (01:27):
And joining us as always is producer Liz Sumner.
Liz, how are you doing today?
Liz (01:31):
I'm doing great.
Good to be here.
Jimmy (01:33):
All right.
Glad to have you here.
So guys, it's that time of year again, coming up on the holidays.
We're just saw the back end of Thanksgiving a few days ago.
So I thought we would go in and we'd take a look at the strips that were adapted into the second Peanuts Christmas Special, it's Christmas time again, Charlie Brown.
(01:54):
Now, Michael, tell us all of your fantastic memories of this special.
Excellent.
Harold, have you any memories of watching this one?
Harold (02:06):
Yeah, it's funny that when they had these specials, they were often half hours, I mean, the Peanuts ones were, and so they would have to team the Charlie Brown Christmas often with somebody else's show and CBS had the wonderful idea 36 years later or whatever, hey, we can actually make another Peanuts Christmas special and then we can air them back to back.
(02:34):
So I saw this many times because that seemed to be the standard thing for a number of years to show these two together, which only makes sense.
So this came out and I guess it was probably the day after Thanksgiving on a Friday in 1992, and it says it was the last Peanuts special to debut on CBS and then CBS unceremoniously dumped the Peanuts franchise and it received a 10.0 rating, watched by approximately 9.3 million households.
(03:07):
That sounds crazy good now, but back in the day, I don't know.
You know, ratings on broadcast television are just a tiny shadow of themselves.
Jimmy (03:16):
Well, back in the days of like Seinfeld and ER, like those shows would pull 30 million viewers a week on just a regular week of a new episode.
Harold (03:26):
So, but the funny thing is, even though I know I saw it, I don't really have strong memories of it.
So.
Jimmy (03:34):
Well, you know, the interest, I've seen it a couple of times.
I think what it's lacking, other than just the sheer repetition of decades that Charlie Brown Christmas has, it's lacking a narrative thrust.
There's no story to it.
Harold (03:51):
It's just more like the Charlie Brown and Snoopy show where you just saw segment after segment after segment.
Jimmy (03:57):
Yeah.
I think it weirdly feels longer that way, because there's no way to orient yourself where you are in this special.
It's just a bunch of stuff that's occurring to you.
But it's cool to be able to see a bunch of sequences and segments animated, because I think there's 13 separate vignettes in this show.
Harold (04:24):
Wow.
And the other thing about this little piece of trivia is Vince Guraldi, who had done all of the scoring from the things from 1965 to 76, and when he passed away, they use a lot of that material because people, I think, so associated Guraldi and his Christmas themes.
(04:45):
They brought back a lot of the music that we saw in the original Christmas special.
And then, I think, David Benoit, who took over after him for a lot of the specials, he kind of did some bridging stuff.
But so Guraldi has a presence here, which we hadn't seen for probably 16 years in a new Peanuts special.
Jimmy (05:06):
Yeah.
Do you have anything to say about the animation style itself?
Because it's different, certainly, from the first one.
Harold (05:15):
I have no memory of it.
I haven't seen it so recently.
Jimmy (05:19):
I always felt it looks very 90s, it feels like.
Harold (05:24):
Is it a little smoother?
Yeah.
Jimmy (05:29):
A little smoother and just a little cleaner.
So much of the ramshackle-ness of the Charlie Brown Christmas is such a part of it.
I actually don't think they look great next to each other.
I think they'd look like they were done decades apart, which they were.
And obviously doesn't really bother people.
I'm assuming they watch it to this day, but it's definitely, you can see the difference side by side.
(05:57):
So what we've done here is I went on to good old YouTube and found this is not someone that I know, but I'm going to try my best to pronounce their name.
Tarvinneeko Mainitakaan, on their YouTube channel, and that's what you can search it under, has just compiled all of the strips that were adapted and animated into the special, and for a bunch of other Peanuts specials.
(06:24):
It's actually a really cool little website.
I'm not sure how often it's updated.
But as far as YouTube channels related to Peanuts go, give it a look and tell them Unpacking Peanuts sent you.
Liz (06:35):
And let's put the link in the show notes.
Jimmy (06:37):
Yeah.
There you go.
We'll put a link in the show notes.
See, that's why we have Liz, the producer here.
I wouldn't have thought of that, nor would I have ever finished editing this, and it would just be sitting on a drive.
All right.
I'm just going to go through, like I said, there's 13 different sequences.
None of them especially related to the other, although they do try to put some semblance of an arc to it.
(07:04):
They're adapted from the mid-70s all the way up to the early 90s.
I thought we'd just pick a couple of them, and we talk about them now.
Sound good?
Yeah, sounds good.
All right.
Here we go.
November 30th, 1972.
Sally's writing away at her kitchen table, and we see what she's writing is English theme, the true meaning of Christmas.
(07:26):
Sally continues, to me, Christmas is the joy of getting.
At this point, Charlie Brown has entered and is looking over her sister's shoulder to see what she's writing.
Charlie Brown says, you mean giving.
Christmas is the joy of giving.
Then in the last panel, Sally says, I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
Michael (07:47):
This is actually one of the great Sally.
Jimmy (07:49):
Great Sally Strip.
Absolutely.
Now, Michael, in our last episode, we were discussing that you read somewhere that Sally is a nihilist.
Yeah.
Does this go along with that or not?
I think for me personally, I think maybe not because a nihilist wouldn't even bother writing it.
Michael (08:12):
The nihilist wouldn't bother writing it.
Jimmy (08:14):
Right.
Just be like, forget this.
Michael (08:15):
It's for school.
Yeah.
Harold (08:18):
Nihilism and joy, I don't think of at the same time for some reason.
Even if it's the joy of getting.
Jimmy (08:24):
Yeah.
Right.
That's a better way of saying it, because even getting something would be meaningless.
But she's going to get joy from the presence for sure.
She's selfish.
Michael (08:36):
Yeah.
You're right.
I will concede that point.
Jimmy (08:40):
Well, I wasn't arguing.
I was just wondering.
Michael (08:42):
Okay.
Well, I didn't necessarily say I believed what the article said.
Jimmy (08:46):
Well, I know.
That's why I'm asking what you think.
Michael (08:49):
All right.
You're right.
I'm wrong.
Jimmy (08:50):
No.
That's not what I'm saying.
Michael (08:55):
All right.
You humiliated me in front of millions of people in the audience.
Jimmy (09:00):
I just said, is this an example of the thing?
Michael (09:03):
Fine.
I quit.
Harold (09:16):
Now.
Jimmy (09:21):
Oh, man.
I have a new theory that I should always stop talking one sentence before I think I should.
Liz (09:30):
I can take care of that for you.
Jimmy (09:32):
Thank you.
But not in life, unfortunately.
That would be great if you could though.
Oh, man.
Michael (09:42):
That would be a good sitcom.
Liz (09:45):
I bet it's been a black mirror episode.
Jimmy (09:47):
Oh, really?
Michael (09:47):
Well, what if you could just say, cut, take two, and it just disappears into the e-theory.
Jimmy (09:55):
That would be amazing.
Michael (09:56):
You can redo what you, the stupid, stupid thing you said.
Jimmy (09:59):
Right.
Oh, that would be amazing.
Let's, someone out there, some engineer, kickstart that.
Get on it.
December 20th, 1976.
Pepperman Patty is on the phone when she's calling her old pal, Charlie Brown, and she says, Guess what, Chuck?
Disaster time.
The second panel, she continues, our teacher wants us to read a book during Christmas vacation.
(10:24):
Got any suggestions?
To which Charlie Brown says, On what book to read?
And then Pepperman Patty slumps down by the phone and says, No, on how to get out of it.
I'm assuming it's, you know, she's going to pick up War and Peace or something like that because she's got to do what she can to stay, stay in the flow at her grade school.
Michael (10:46):
Well, I figured it was probably a Dr.
Seuss book or something.
Jimmy (10:52):
So and this will give you the feel of just how these things work.
Like the first segment is all about Sally writing her Christmas theme about the true meaning of Christmas.
And now we're going to go into another unrelated story about Peppermint Patty.
And then later on, we'll have another Peppermint Patty story that is unrelated to this one.
And again, no attempt is made to try to bridge these together at all.
(11:16):
I guess their template is the Charlie Brown and Snoopy show.
So Harold, what do you think about that?
The fact that it's just these vignettes, do you think?
Harold (11:26):
It certainly feels like Schulz really wasn't, it wasn't Schulz's idea, clearly.
You know, he's not, he's like, oh my gosh, I've got to live up to my very first special, which caused such a splash.
It just seems like it's, you know, it's the 36th one they've done.
He's not really that involved.
(11:48):
And so it just feels disconnected to me from what was done before.
And I just have to assume Schulz was really not engaged with it.
It was just people going through the strips and picking out Christmas things and stringing them together.
And he probably had a very minimal involvement.
(12:09):
I mean, I'd have to guess that, given the weight of what he did the first time around.
Jimmy (12:15):
Well, it's also a great way to avoid direct comparison with the first one.
Harold (12:20):
That's true, yeah.
It's just so matter of fact, not trying to aspire to much of anything.
Jimmy (12:28):
Yeah.
Well, if I can make one of my obligatory references, REM when they were asked by the bands, like what to do with their second album, and their advice was do not try to top your first album.
Get it done quickly, get it out there.
Then you'll know because if you get lost in your own head of, I've got to do this great thing, odds are it's not going to be a great thing.
Harold (12:57):
Then the reply was punt.
Michael (12:59):
Punt.
Liz (13:01):
Call it a day.
Harold (13:02):
Yeah.
Jimmy (13:02):
I feel it's a little bit what he's doing here too, because this is what's on after a Charlie Brown Christmas when you're talking about a Charlie Brown Christmas and getting your pie and stuff like that, right?
Harold (13:11):
But in retrospect, when I'm thinking about this, I don't know how much I did see this one because there was another special that, and since this was the last one that CBS aired and then ABC kind of took over, I'm not exactly sure what the dynamics of that were, but.
Jimmy (13:26):
But that next one, which I'm not even sure what it's called, that has, I think, the worst animation of any of the specials.
It looks like it's just done in a really primitive version of Flash.
Harold (13:38):
Oh, yeah.
Jimmy (13:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, it really does not look good.
Harold (13:42):
Might have been a rush job like the first one.
Jimmy (13:44):
Yeah.
Harold (13:45):
Yeah.
Jimmy (13:47):
December 23rd, 1976.
So we're continuing the Peppermint Patty storyline.
Now she's outside making a snowman and Marcy says to her, why aren't you reading your book, sir?
Peppermint Patty, putting the head on the snowman, says, it's too nice a day to stay inside and read, Marcy.
Besides, I have to build this snowman.
If I don't do it, no one else will and he'll never exist.
(14:08):
I'm his creator.
It's my duty to give him life.
She concludes in the last panel, this snowman has a right to live, Marcy.
To which Marcy replies, you're weird, sir.
I love the way Peppermint Patty handles this.
Actually, in the animation, the actress who plays Peppermint Patty really does great on this strip.
(14:35):
It's really funny.
She really leans into the drama of Peppermint Patty.
Here's another example.
Peppermint Patty is not stupid.
There's, because she can manipulate Marcy here and she's using all this highfalutin talk.
(14:56):
She's not stupid.
She's just not good.
She's not book smart at all.
Harold (15:00):
Yeah.
She's not on the school wavelength.
Yeah.
Jimmy (15:04):
No.
Harold (15:05):
But she's got her own smarts.
Jimmy (15:07):
Yes.
Harold (15:09):
It's true to her, I think, in the respect that she seems to be a very tactile person.
She's really good at sports and making.
Jimmy (15:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm sure if she had to do a diorama about something in school, she might be better off than if she had to do a diorama.
Harold (15:25):
Yeah, it would be interesting to see.
Jimmy (15:27):
Yeah.
All right.
Then we do a hard cut to another sequence.
This is a long sequence of strips where Charlie Brown is trying to sell some Christmas wreaths, and then Sally eventually gets involved and says she wants to be a part of it.
After initially admonishing him for participating in the commercialization of Christmas, she then gets involved because she thinks she can make a buck.
(15:58):
On this one of December 18th, 1982, she's enlisted Snoopy's help.
She is displaying the wreath on Snoopy's snout so that it's a better way to really show off the quality of the wreath.
Sally says to the person on the other side of the door, whom we don't see, Good morning, ma'am.
(16:19):
How would you like to buy a nice Christmas nose?
And then she says, I meant wreath.
How embarrassing.
And she's actually chuckling to herself as if she finds this adorable.
Snoopy doesn't though.
And he just walks away saying, I'm going home.
One of the weird things I noticed in this is they adapt a few comics where Snoopy thinks the punchline.
(16:44):
And even the one that we talked about when we were covering it in the year to year where it looks like Snoopy is talking, he's Santa Claus and it looks like he's talking.
And so I watched and I was wondering how they handled it.
Do you guys know how they handled it?
They just ignored it.
They just cut away.
And they never included any of those punchlines.
(17:06):
So it's strange.
Some of the strips are like, you know, five, six adapted or three.
Harold (17:13):
That's wild.
You know, I bet Bill Melendez was pulling his hair out, saying, why can't we just do it like the strip, you know?
Jimmy (17:21):
Well, this isn't Bill Melendez now, though.
Harold (17:24):
Oh, so when did Bill do his last special?
Jimmy (17:28):
The one before this, or no, the two before this, I guess.
I don't know how involved he may have been involved, but it was animated overseas.
It was animated at a place.
What is the place called?
I had a note for it, but I can't remember.
Is it Yang Studios or something like that?
Don't quote me on that.
But yeah, this is the first time they were credited as the animators.
(17:51):
Apparently on whatever this special was before this, they did the animation, but were not credited, but this time they were.
Harold (17:59):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, it makes it hard.
I mean, they completely could have allowed Snoopy Voice.
It's so interesting that Schulz kind of came down on it and I don't know if he was constantly getting pressure to put it back in so that we could get some of the strips in with the humor as he did it in the strips, but he really stuck to his guns and said, no, that we can't have Snoopy speak.
(18:28):
And that's fascinating to me because I mean, if I had been the creator of Peanuts, I think I would have totally thought, well, you know, we hear people think in movies all the time, you know, it's, you know, it's like, John never asked for a second cup of beer.
Jimmy (18:42):
Right, right.
Harold (18:44):
So the fact that he somehow found that inappropriate, I think is really, is really interesting.
Liz (18:52):
I really would not have wanted somebody to voice.
I mean, it couldn't possibly live up to what I have in my imagination.
Harold (19:01):
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, keeping the mystique of Snoopy alive was probably helped by that decision.
Jimmy (19:09):
But it does cut like 40% of available Snoopy material or more, you know, for animation.
Like you're not gonna be able to do that if you don't let them talk.
All right, so now I believe we've covered this next sequence in pretty great depth on the show.
(19:30):
This is where Sally is practicing her line for the play.
And all she has to say is, Hark.
And unfortunately, when the day of the show comes, she stands on stage in her angel costume.
And instead of saying, Hark, she inexplicably says hockey stick.
And now we're seeing the resolution of this here on December 24th, 1983.
(19:56):
So Charlie Brown's on the phone and he's reiterating what happened during the show.
He says, I don't know.
I didn't see the rest of the play.
As soon as Sally said hockey stick and everyone laughed, I left.
First off, thanks, Charlie Brown.
But I went to help her out.
Then he continues, she gets everything mixed up.
She even thought someone named Harold Angel was going to sing.
(20:17):
And then in the next panel, he says, excuse me, somebody's at the door.
And then he goes and sees who's at the door.
And there it is.
It's a little kid who was also in the play.
And he says, hi, it's Sally Home.
My name is Harold Angel.
Here's a Peanuts obscurity.
People used to call on the phone.
(20:38):
And sometimes they would also go over to someone's house.
And sometimes those would happen at the same time.
Never happened.
Liz (20:48):
Now we use Zoom.
Jimmy (20:49):
Yeah, it will never happen again.
Can you imagine being on the phone saying, hold on, someone's at the door, can't be done, never, never.
You might get 15 people on the phone at the same time, but.
Harold (21:00):
Just take your laptop with you to the front door.
Jimmy (21:03):
Yeah.
Harold (21:04):
Keep it running.
Jimmy (21:05):
So, Harold, how do you feel about having a namesake here in Peanuts?
Harold (21:08):
It's nice to see Harold Angel.
And believe me, how many times you think I've heard the Harold Angel joke?
Jimmy (21:16):
Oh, yeah.
Harold (21:17):
My lifetime.
It never gets old, though.
Jimmy (21:20):
Well, I'm sure I talked about this when we were talking about the strips the first time.
But I'm convinced that that's Schulz heard Harold Angel in the way the kids say it in the Christmas special.
And it's stuck in his mind when they sing Hark!
The Harold Angel Sing.
To me, it clearly sounds like Hark!
The Harold Angel Sing.
(21:42):
When I did my Peanuts tribute thing, I included that.
I was interviewed about it in my local paper.
And the guy asked me why, and I explained why.
And he was like, oh, he didn't find that very entertaining or amusing.
I think he thought that I just spelled it wrong and he was going to be able to get me.
Probably spelled five other things wrong.
(22:02):
You could have seen one of those.
Yeah, I think it's cute.
I'll never understand the hockey stick portion of this.
Harold (22:10):
No, that seems like a strange thing to swap out for Hark!
No matter.
I mean, it has the same beginning letter, but that's about it.
It's very, very odd.
Jimmy (22:26):
Totally weird.
Harold (22:27):
I must say Harold Angel has a nice approachable hat.
Jimmy (22:30):
That is a nice approachable hat.
How's the approachable hair working out for you?
Harold (22:33):
It's working.
I'm getting there.
Jimmy (22:38):
Well, you're going to be in Harrisburg, PA.
I have many hats.
Maybe you could try a couple on and see if one of them is approachable.
Harold (22:46):
Yeah, I'll try on the REM Michael's type hat.
Jimmy (22:50):
That's a different podcast.
That one does not leave the house.
And allegedly, Michael Stipe's hat.
Allegedly.
Harold (22:58):
Allegedly, yes.
Jimmy (22:59):
How long is the...
Yeah, 31 years.
You can steal a hat.
31 years.
No one's coming after you.
All right.
Anyway, December 22nd.
I paid for that.
We are in...
Okay, so now it's another school play.
And in this one, Marcy is playing Mary and Peppermint Patty is playing the sheep.
(23:22):
And Peppermint Patty complains constantly that she is playing a sheep.
And every time there is a Christmas pageant, she plays a sheep.
But here we are in it.
And Franklin is on stage and he's playing Gabriel.
And he says, I am Gabriel.
Do not be afraid, Mary.
And then Mary slash Marcy says, Behold, I am the handmaiden of the Lord.
(23:46):
And then Peppermint Patty's sheep says, Baa!
With an exclamation point.
And then Franklin says, I am Gabriel, Mary.
And I couldn't hear you because of the sheep.
This is really funny because she is doing a bit where she is really method acting the baa's throughout as she prepares for this.
Michael (24:07):
Well, this is a case where the sequential art form falls down.
Harold (24:13):
Right.
Michael (24:14):
There would have to be a way to have the baa and the handmaiden of the Lord in the same pile.
Jimmy (24:21):
Well, if I were going to do this and totally, like do a Jimmy Gownley version not that Schulz would ever do this, he would just break my fingers for thinking about it.
But I would draw it exactly as it is, but I'd take the baa and I'd extend it over into the second balloon.
I'd actually cover up her words.
Michael (24:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Harold (24:39):
Well, so and then here's the strange thing, in the animated special, then they have the dilemma of whether they do it in sequence so it doesn't make any sense or whether we can't hear what Marcy is saying and Peppermint Patty is buying over her.
Yeah, right.
Not having seen it recently, I'm assuming they did it the way the strip did it where she says her full line and then Peppermint Patty says her bye.
Jimmy (25:08):
Now, the way they do it, I believe, I mean, I can't swear to this, I saw it a few weeks ago, but they just have her going bye, bye, bye, bye throughout and underneath it.
Harold (25:19):
Well, it makes sense.
Jimmy (25:19):
I think that's how they do it, yeah, which is a pretty good way to handle it.
I love the artwork in the first panel especially.
I think Marcy looks adorable as Mary.
It really brings me back to my childhood Christmas pageants, kids wearing towels on their head.
Harold (25:39):
She looks like Sister Mercy there.
Jimmy (25:41):
Yeah, she really does.
She really does.
No wings for Franklin though.
Harold (25:45):
No wings and bare feet for an angel standing on top of a box to represent being higher up in the sky there.
Jimmy (25:55):
It's pretty funny though.
I mean, there's no indication.
I wonder why he didn't put any of the just pop culture ways you draw a kid dressed as an angel.
The tinsel halo, the wings.
December 23rd, 1989.
(26:16):
Now this sequence is Snoopy is somehow working for the Salvation Army and he is out there ringing his bell and Sally approaches him.
He's dressed as Santa Claus and Sally says, I don't think you're the real Santa Claus.
If you're the real Santa, where are your helpers?
And then we see three little birds go by, assuming Woodstock is one of them, with little signs that say help, help, help.
(26:41):
And then Sally looks after them saying, that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
And then we have this weird possible snoopy talking balloon that says, who cares?
Merry Christmas, sweetie.
Harold (26:52):
Woof, woof, woof.
So we get the speech balloon instead of the thought bubble because of the woof, woof, woof, right?
Jimmy (26:59):
I guess so.
And this is the first one.
This is the one I went to look at immediately.
I was like, I want to see how they adapt this.
And they just cut it off.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
And that's where it is.
Harold (27:10):
No woof, woof, woof?
Jimmy (27:12):
Nope, nothing.
Michael (27:14):
This might be my least favorite Peanut Street flavor.
Liz (27:19):
Even though it has Sally in it.
Michael (27:21):
Even though it has Sally in it.
Jimmy (27:21):
Well, that's what makes it an even greater betrayal.
Harold (27:24):
She's agreeing with you.
It looks like Michael.
You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
The little birds each with their signs.
Help, help, help.
Jimmy (27:32):
Michael, would it bother you if it just ended with, that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen?
Michael (27:38):
Because the help, help, help joke isn't really very good.
Jimmy (27:40):
Yeah, okay.
Liz (27:41):
We had improved it when we talked about it.
Jimmy (27:43):
Oh, really?
Liz (27:44):
What, what, what, yeah, we had the birds, the signs say something else.
Jimmy (27:50):
I have no recollection of that, but I bet it was hilarious.
And if you want to find out what you can do there is you can go back and binge all these episodes.
There's like 137 now.
We would love for you to check them all out.
Liz (28:02):
Michael suggested it could be ho ho ho.
Jimmy (28:03):
Oh, yeah, that's cute.
That's cute.
There you go, Sparky.
We fixed that one for you.
November 29, 1990.
Now we're in to Charlie Brown world where he is trying to buy gloves for his beloved Peggy Jean.
So we get a little bit of Peggy Jean animation in this sequence.
(28:25):
And we see Charlie Brown at the counter here and he says, Yes, ma'am, I'd like to buy a Christmas present for a girl I know.
I was thinking maybe a pair of gloves.
And Charlie Brown says, Would it help if I described her?
And then he continues, Well, she has 10 fingers.
Harold (28:43):
That's helpful to a glove salesman.
Jimmy (28:45):
I think, though, this might have been better if Charlie Brown was doing it being prompted by the salesperson.
Like if the third panel said, Can I describe her?
You're right, because Charlie Brown is just setting himself up to describe it and then I don't think a glove salesman would ask.
Harold (29:07):
Right?
Jimmy (29:08):
Well, no, but neither would a person go up and say, I'm trying to buy a glove for someone with ten fingers.
Michael (29:15):
But it's important that we improve all these things.
Jimmy (29:18):
It is.
Michael (29:20):
That's her job.
Harold (29:22):
The Charlie Brown would think it would be helpful.
That's pretty Charlie Brown.
Jimmy (29:28):
There's a good looking little perfumish counter there.
You can sort of tell from a department store.
Harold (29:36):
Yeah, you can smell it.
Jimmy (29:38):
Yeah, I think Charlie Brown looks good with his Zip-a-Tone outfit and approachable hat.
Now, none of these hats are ever actually sideways, right?
I mean, that's very important, I think.
But he just draws them that way, you know?
And I actually draw a comic strip for Scout Life magazine and they wear hats.
(30:01):
And I just want to do the sideways hat like Schulz does.
But as soon as you do it, it looks like it's just Charles Schulz.
He's like he owns it.
You know what I mean?
It looks like such a ripoff.
So I end up trying to draw it in some sort of perspective.
This sequence continues, December 1st, 1990.
(30:23):
Charlie Brown is talking to Sally who's sitting in her favorite spot, the beanbag chair, assuming she's watching TV.
And Charlie Brown says to her, I wanted to buy Peggy Jean some gloves for Christmas, but they cost $25.
And Sally says she's going to be disappointed when she finds out her boyfriend is a cheapskate.
And Charlie Brown says, I'm not a cheapskate.
(30:46):
I just don't have $25.
To which Sally says, put it on your credit card.
Which Charlie Brown says, I don't have a credit card.
And Sally answers, so long, Peggy Jean.
No, we've done this one before, but I just think it's one of the great Sally insights and lines.
(31:06):
And I think it's great that she doesn't look up from the TV to deliver it at any point.
Harold (31:12):
Yeah.
But boy, you know, in today's dollars, that's over 50 bucks.
So Charlie Brown was, he wasn't going to Dollar Tree.
Jimmy (31:21):
No.
Harold (31:22):
He could have found some cheap gloves, but that would not be worthy of Peggy Jean either, I guess.
Jimmy (31:28):
Yeah.
And so he goes on in this sequence and he sells a bunch of his stuff.
He's trying to sell autographed baseballs and he sells his entire comic collection, which we definitely looked at when we discussed these strips last time.
And now he's raised some cash and he's back at the counter and he says, Yes, ma'am, I sold my whole collection of comic books.
(31:51):
See, here's the money.
Now I can buy those gloves for that girl I like.
And then who should show up at just that moment?
But Peggy Jean.
Brownie Charles, she says.
And Charlie Brown's happy to see her and says, Peggy Jean, what are you doing here?
And then she shows him, I've been shopping with my mother.
Look, I just bought this new pair of gloves.
(32:12):
I'm sending Charlie Brown's hat flying off his head.
Not sure what the obsession was with the gloves.
Oh, also we can see Peggy Jean is zippotoned here.
She is definitely a redhead in the animation.
And I can't help but think that that was hedging people's, or hedging their bets so people could think of her as the little red-haired girl if they chose.
(32:35):
Casual fans, you know what I mean?
Uh-huh, was that Michael?
Don't approve.
Michael (32:45):
I'm packing up.
Jimmy (32:49):
All right, well, there you go.
That's a little short one for us this week.
We just wanted to give you a little Christmas present, or a holiday present, regardless of why you celebrate, because we are so grateful.
Harold (33:00):
So where can you see this special, Jimmy?
Is it on Apple TV?
Yes.
Jimmy (33:06):
There is a rip of it from VHS, the original VHS on YouTube, and there's the version that I will link to that has the strips that are all adapted, which is not the complete special.
It just, you know, cuts from one sequence to the other.
So there's a bunch of different ways you can experience this.
And of course, we would love for you to just read along with us.
(33:26):
And if you want to heads up on that type of thing, what you need to do is go over to unpackingpeanuts.com, sign up for the great Peanuts reread.
That'll get you one email a month, and that'll let you know what we're going to be discussing, and if anything special is coming up.
Other than that, if you want to keep in touch with us, you can of course send us an email.
We're unpackingpeanuts at gmail.com.
(33:48):
You can also call the hotline where we're 717-219-4162.
And then we're at Unpack Peanuts on what Liz?
Liz (33:59):
Instagram and thread.
Jimmy (34:01):
And we're at Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky and YouTube.
So we would love to see you there.
And we'd love to hear from you because if I don't hear, I worry.
Guys, that's all I got.
Anybody have anything else?
Or are we wrapping up?
Liz (34:14):
Next week, we're re-releasing our Charlie Brown Christmas episode.
And the following week, we're taking a break.
We wish everyone a lovely holiday season.
Jimmy (34:25):
Yeah.
Whatever you're celebrating out there, have a great holiday from us.
And we will see you soon and we'll be thinking about you.
So until then, from Michael, Harold and Liz, this is Jimmy saying, be of good cheer.
Michael (34:37):
Yes.
Be of good cheer.
Liz (34:40):
Unpacking Peanuts is copyrighted by Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner.
Produced and edited by Liz Sumner.
Music by Michael Cohen.
Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads.
Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube.
(35:02):
For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Have a wonderful day and thanks for listening.
Jimmy (35:10):
I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
Welcome to Unpacking Peanuts, the podcast where three cartoonists take an in-depth look at the greatest comic strip of all time, Peanuts by Charles M.
Schulz.
Jimmy (00:23):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the show.
It's Unpacking Peanuts and Tis the Season.
So today we're gonna be taking a look at the second Charlie Brown Christmas Special, the one you don't watch every year.
It's Christmas time again, Charlie Brown.
I'll be your host for the proceedings.
My name is Jimmy Gownley.
I'm also a cartoonist who did things like Seven Good Reasons Not to Grow Up, The Dumbest Idea Ever and Amelia Rules.
(00:47):
And you can read my brand new comic, Tanner Rocks, over there on gvillcomics.substack.com and you can do it for free.
And joining me as always are my pals, co-hosts and fellow cartoonists.
He's a playwright and a composer, both for the Man Complicated People as well as for this very podcast.
He's the co-creator of the original comic book prize guide, the original editor for Amelia Rules, and the creator of such great strips as Strange Attractors, A Gathering of Spells and Tangled River.
(01:14):
It's Michael Cohen.
Michael (01:15):
Say hey.
Jimmy (01:16):
And he's the executive producer and writer for Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie Comics and the creator of the Instagram sensation, Sweetest Beast.
It's Harold Buchholz.
Harold (01:26):
Hello.
Jimmy (01:27):
And joining us as always is producer Liz Sumner.
Liz, how are you doing today?
Liz (01:31):
I'm doing great.
Good to be here.
Jimmy (01:33):
All right.
Glad to have you here.
So guys, it's that time of year again, coming up on the holidays.
We're just saw the back end of Thanksgiving a few days ago.
So I thought we would go in and we'd take a look at the strips that were adapted into the second Peanuts Christmas Special, it's Christmas time again, Charlie Brown.
(01:54):
Now, Michael, tell us all of your fantastic memories of this special.
Excellent.
Harold, have you any memories of watching this one?
Harold (02:06):
Yeah, it's funny that when they had these specials, they were often half hours, I mean, the Peanuts ones were, and so they would have to team the Charlie Brown Christmas often with somebody else's show and CBS had the wonderful idea 36 years later or whatever, hey, we can actually make another Peanuts Christmas special and then we can air them back to back.
(02:34):
So I saw this many times because that seemed to be the standard thing for a number of years to show these two together, which only makes sense.
So this came out and I guess it was probably the day after Thanksgiving on a Friday in 1992, and it says it was the last Peanuts special to debut on CBS and then CBS unceremoniously dumped the Peanuts franchise and it received a 10.0 rating, watched by approximately 9.3 million households.
(03:07):
That sounds crazy good now, but back in the day, I don't know.
You know, ratings on broadcast television are just a tiny shadow of themselves.
Jimmy (03:16):
Well, back in the days of like Seinfeld and ER, like those shows would pull 30 million viewers a week on just a regular week of a new episode.
Harold (03:26):
So, but the funny thing is, even though I know I saw it, I don't really have strong memories of it.
So.
Jimmy (03:34):
Well, you know, the interest, I've seen it a couple of times.
I think what it's lacking, other than just the sheer repetition of decades that Charlie Brown Christmas has, it's lacking a narrative thrust.
There's no story to it.
Harold (03:51):
It's just more like the Charlie Brown and Snoopy show where you just saw segment after segment after segment.
Jimmy (03:57):
Yeah.
I think it weirdly feels longer that way, because there's no way to orient yourself where you are in this special.
It's just a bunch of stuff that's occurring to you.
But it's cool to be able to see a bunch of sequences and segments animated, because I think there's 13 separate vignettes in this show.
Harold (04:24):
Wow.
And the other thing about this little piece of trivia is Vince Guraldi, who had done all of the scoring from the things from 1965 to 76, and when he passed away, they use a lot of that material because people, I think, so associated Guraldi and his Christmas themes.
(04:45):
They brought back a lot of the music that we saw in the original Christmas special.
And then, I think, David Benoit, who took over after him for a lot of the specials, he kind of did some bridging stuff.
But so Guraldi has a presence here, which we hadn't seen for probably 16 years in a new Peanuts special.
Jimmy (05:06):
Yeah.
Do you have anything to say about the animation style itself?
Because it's different, certainly, from the first one.
Harold (05:15):
I have no memory of it.
I haven't seen it so recently.
Jimmy (05:19):
I always felt it looks very 90s, it feels like.
Harold (05:24):
Is it a little smoother?
Yeah.
Jimmy (05:29):
A little smoother and just a little cleaner.
So much of the ramshackle-ness of the Charlie Brown Christmas is such a part of it.
I actually don't think they look great next to each other.
I think they'd look like they were done decades apart, which they were.
And obviously doesn't really bother people.
I'm assuming they watch it to this day, but it's definitely, you can see the difference side by side.
(05:57):
So what we've done here is I went on to good old YouTube and found this is not someone that I know, but I'm going to try my best to pronounce their name.
Tarvinneeko Mainitakaan, on their YouTube channel, and that's what you can search it under, has just compiled all of the strips that were adapted and animated into the special, and for a bunch of other Peanuts specials.
(06:24):
It's actually a really cool little website.
I'm not sure how often it's updated.
But as far as YouTube channels related to Peanuts go, give it a look and tell them Unpacking Peanuts sent you.
Liz (06:35):
And let's put the link in the show notes.
Jimmy (06:37):
Yeah.
There you go.
We'll put a link in the show notes.
See, that's why we have Liz, the producer here.
I wouldn't have thought of that, nor would I have ever finished editing this, and it would just be sitting on a drive.
All right.
I'm just going to go through, like I said, there's 13 different sequences.
None of them especially related to the other, although they do try to put some semblance of an arc to it.
(07:04):
They're adapted from the mid-70s all the way up to the early 90s.
I thought we'd just pick a couple of them, and we talk about them now.
Sound good?
Yeah, sounds good.
All right.
Here we go.
November 30th, 1972.
Sally's writing away at her kitchen table, and we see what she's writing is English theme, the true meaning of Christmas.
(07:26):
Sally continues, to me, Christmas is the joy of getting.
At this point, Charlie Brown has entered and is looking over her sister's shoulder to see what she's writing.
Charlie Brown says, you mean giving.
Christmas is the joy of giving.
Then in the last panel, Sally says, I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
Michael (07:47):
This is actually one of the great Sally.
Jimmy (07:49):
Great Sally Strip.
Absolutely.
Now, Michael, in our last episode, we were discussing that you read somewhere that Sally is a nihilist.
Yeah.
Does this go along with that or not?
I think for me personally, I think maybe not because a nihilist wouldn't even bother writing it.
Michael (08:12):
The nihilist wouldn't bother writing it.
Jimmy (08:14):
Right.
Just be like, forget this.
Michael (08:15):
It's for school.
Yeah.
Harold (08:18):
Nihilism and joy, I don't think of at the same time for some reason.
Even if it's the joy of getting.
Jimmy (08:24):
Yeah.
Right.
That's a better way of saying it, because even getting something would be meaningless.
But she's going to get joy from the presence for sure.
She's selfish.
Michael (08:36):
Yeah.
You're right.
I will concede that point.
Jimmy (08:40):
Well, I wasn't arguing.
I was just wondering.
Michael (08:42):
Okay.
Well, I didn't necessarily say I believed what the article said.
Jimmy (08:46):
Well, I know.
That's why I'm asking what you think.
Michael (08:49):
All right.
You're right.
I'm wrong.
Jimmy (08:50):
No.
That's not what I'm saying.
Michael (08:55):
All right.
You humiliated me in front of millions of people in the audience.
Jimmy (09:00):
I just said, is this an example of the thing?
Michael (09:03):
Fine.
I quit.
Harold (09:16):
Now.
Jimmy (09:21):
Oh, man.
I have a new theory that I should always stop talking one sentence before I think I should.
Liz (09:30):
I can take care of that for you.
Jimmy (09:32):
Thank you.
But not in life, unfortunately.
That would be great if you could though.
Oh, man.
Michael (09:42):
That would be a good sitcom.
Liz (09:45):
I bet it's been a black mirror episode.
Jimmy (09:47):
Oh, really?
Michael (09:47):
Well, what if you could just say, cut, take two, and it just disappears into the e-theory.
Jimmy (09:55):
That would be amazing.
Michael (09:56):
You can redo what you, the stupid, stupid thing you said.
Jimmy (09:59):
Right.
Oh, that would be amazing.
Let's, someone out there, some engineer, kickstart that.
Get on it.
December 20th, 1976.
Pepperman Patty is on the phone when she's calling her old pal, Charlie Brown, and she says, Guess what, Chuck?
Disaster time.
The second panel, she continues, our teacher wants us to read a book during Christmas vacation.
(10:24):
Got any suggestions?
To which Charlie Brown says, On what book to read?
And then Pepperman Patty slumps down by the phone and says, No, on how to get out of it.
I'm assuming it's, you know, she's going to pick up War and Peace or something like that because she's got to do what she can to stay, stay in the flow at her grade school.
Michael (10:46):
Well, I figured it was probably a Dr.
Seuss book or something.
Jimmy (10:52):
So and this will give you the feel of just how these things work.
Like the first segment is all about Sally writing her Christmas theme about the true meaning of Christmas.
And now we're going to go into another unrelated story about Peppermint Patty.
And then later on, we'll have another Peppermint Patty story that is unrelated to this one.
And again, no attempt is made to try to bridge these together at all.
(11:16):
I guess their template is the Charlie Brown and Snoopy show.
So Harold, what do you think about that?
The fact that it's just these vignettes, do you think?
Harold (11:26):
It certainly feels like Schulz really wasn't, it wasn't Schulz's idea, clearly.
You know, he's not, he's like, oh my gosh, I've got to live up to my very first special, which caused such a splash.
It just seems like it's, you know, it's the 36th one they've done.
He's not really that involved.
(11:48):
And so it just feels disconnected to me from what was done before.
And I just have to assume Schulz was really not engaged with it.
It was just people going through the strips and picking out Christmas things and stringing them together.
And he probably had a very minimal involvement.
(12:09):
I mean, I'd have to guess that, given the weight of what he did the first time around.
Jimmy (12:15):
Well, it's also a great way to avoid direct comparison with the first one.
Harold (12:20):
That's true, yeah.
It's just so matter of fact, not trying to aspire to much of anything.
Jimmy (12:28):
Yeah.
Well, if I can make one of my obligatory references, REM when they were asked by the bands, like what to do with their second album, and their advice was do not try to top your first album.
Get it done quickly, get it out there.
Then you'll know because if you get lost in your own head of, I've got to do this great thing, odds are it's not going to be a great thing.
Harold (12:57):
Then the reply was punt.
Michael (12:59):
Punt.
Liz (13:01):
Call it a day.
Harold (13:02):
Yeah.
Jimmy (13:02):
I feel it's a little bit what he's doing here too, because this is what's on after a Charlie Brown Christmas when you're talking about a Charlie Brown Christmas and getting your pie and stuff like that, right?
Harold (13:11):
But in retrospect, when I'm thinking about this, I don't know how much I did see this one because there was another special that, and since this was the last one that CBS aired and then ABC kind of took over, I'm not exactly sure what the dynamics of that were, but.
Jimmy (13:26):
But that next one, which I'm not even sure what it's called, that has, I think, the worst animation of any of the specials.
It looks like it's just done in a really primitive version of Flash.
Harold (13:38):
Oh, yeah.
Jimmy (13:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, it really does not look good.
Harold (13:42):
Might have been a rush job like the first one.
Jimmy (13:44):
Yeah.
Harold (13:45):
Yeah.
Jimmy (13:47):
December 23rd, 1976.
So we're continuing the Peppermint Patty storyline.
Now she's outside making a snowman and Marcy says to her, why aren't you reading your book, sir?
Peppermint Patty, putting the head on the snowman, says, it's too nice a day to stay inside and read, Marcy.
Besides, I have to build this snowman.
If I don't do it, no one else will and he'll never exist.
(14:08):
I'm his creator.
It's my duty to give him life.
She concludes in the last panel, this snowman has a right to live, Marcy.
To which Marcy replies, you're weird, sir.
I love the way Peppermint Patty handles this.
Actually, in the animation, the actress who plays Peppermint Patty really does great on this strip.
(14:35):
It's really funny.
She really leans into the drama of Peppermint Patty.
Here's another example.
Peppermint Patty is not stupid.
There's, because she can manipulate Marcy here and she's using all this highfalutin talk.
(14:56):
She's not stupid.
She's just not good.
She's not book smart at all.
Harold (15:00):
Yeah.
She's not on the school wavelength.
Yeah.
Jimmy (15:04):
No.
Harold (15:05):
But she's got her own smarts.
Jimmy (15:07):
Yes.
Harold (15:09):
It's true to her, I think, in the respect that she seems to be a very tactile person.
She's really good at sports and making.
Jimmy (15:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm sure if she had to do a diorama about something in school, she might be better off than if she had to do a diorama.
Harold (15:25):
Yeah, it would be interesting to see.
Jimmy (15:27):
Yeah.
All right.
Then we do a hard cut to another sequence.
This is a long sequence of strips where Charlie Brown is trying to sell some Christmas wreaths, and then Sally eventually gets involved and says she wants to be a part of it.
After initially admonishing him for participating in the commercialization of Christmas, she then gets involved because she thinks she can make a buck.
(15:58):
On this one of December 18th, 1982, she's enlisted Snoopy's help.
She is displaying the wreath on Snoopy's snout so that it's a better way to really show off the quality of the wreath.
Sally says to the person on the other side of the door, whom we don't see, Good morning, ma'am.
(16:19):
How would you like to buy a nice Christmas nose?
And then she says, I meant wreath.
How embarrassing.
And she's actually chuckling to herself as if she finds this adorable.
Snoopy doesn't though.
And he just walks away saying, I'm going home.
One of the weird things I noticed in this is they adapt a few comics where Snoopy thinks the punchline.
(16:44):
And even the one that we talked about when we were covering it in the year to year where it looks like Snoopy is talking, he's Santa Claus and it looks like he's talking.
And so I watched and I was wondering how they handled it.
Do you guys know how they handled it?
They just ignored it.
They just cut away.
And they never included any of those punchlines.
(17:06):
So it's strange.
Some of the strips are like, you know, five, six adapted or three.
Harold (17:13):
That's wild.
You know, I bet Bill Melendez was pulling his hair out, saying, why can't we just do it like the strip, you know?
Jimmy (17:21):
Well, this isn't Bill Melendez now, though.
Harold (17:24):
Oh, so when did Bill do his last special?
Jimmy (17:28):
The one before this, or no, the two before this, I guess.
I don't know how involved he may have been involved, but it was animated overseas.
It was animated at a place.
What is the place called?
I had a note for it, but I can't remember.
Is it Yang Studios or something like that?
Don't quote me on that.
But yeah, this is the first time they were credited as the animators.
(17:51):
Apparently on whatever this special was before this, they did the animation, but were not credited, but this time they were.
Harold (17:59):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, it makes it hard.
I mean, they completely could have allowed Snoopy Voice.
It's so interesting that Schulz kind of came down on it and I don't know if he was constantly getting pressure to put it back in so that we could get some of the strips in with the humor as he did it in the strips, but he really stuck to his guns and said, no, that we can't have Snoopy speak.
(18:28):
And that's fascinating to me because I mean, if I had been the creator of Peanuts, I think I would have totally thought, well, you know, we hear people think in movies all the time, you know, it's, you know, it's like, John never asked for a second cup of beer.
Jimmy (18:42):
Right, right.
Harold (18:44):
So the fact that he somehow found that inappropriate, I think is really, is really interesting.
Liz (18:52):
I really would not have wanted somebody to voice.
I mean, it couldn't possibly live up to what I have in my imagination.
Harold (19:01):
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, keeping the mystique of Snoopy alive was probably helped by that decision.
Jimmy (19:09):
But it does cut like 40% of available Snoopy material or more, you know, for animation.
Like you're not gonna be able to do that if you don't let them talk.
All right, so now I believe we've covered this next sequence in pretty great depth on the show.
(19:30):
This is where Sally is practicing her line for the play.
And all she has to say is, Hark.
And unfortunately, when the day of the show comes, she stands on stage in her angel costume.
And instead of saying, Hark, she inexplicably says hockey stick.
And now we're seeing the resolution of this here on December 24th, 1983.
(19:56):
So Charlie Brown's on the phone and he's reiterating what happened during the show.
He says, I don't know.
I didn't see the rest of the play.
As soon as Sally said hockey stick and everyone laughed, I left.
First off, thanks, Charlie Brown.
But I went to help her out.
Then he continues, she gets everything mixed up.
She even thought someone named Harold Angel was going to sing.
(20:17):
And then in the next panel, he says, excuse me, somebody's at the door.
And then he goes and sees who's at the door.
And there it is.
It's a little kid who was also in the play.
And he says, hi, it's Sally Home.
My name is Harold Angel.
Here's a Peanuts obscurity.
People used to call on the phone.
(20:38):
And sometimes they would also go over to someone's house.
And sometimes those would happen at the same time.
Never happened.
Liz (20:48):
Now we use Zoom.
Jimmy (20:49):
Yeah, it will never happen again.
Can you imagine being on the phone saying, hold on, someone's at the door, can't be done, never, never.
You might get 15 people on the phone at the same time, but.
Harold (21:00):
Just take your laptop with you to the front door.
Jimmy (21:03):
Yeah.
Harold (21:04):
Keep it running.
Jimmy (21:05):
So, Harold, how do you feel about having a namesake here in Peanuts?
Harold (21:08):
It's nice to see Harold Angel.
And believe me, how many times you think I've heard the Harold Angel joke?
Jimmy (21:16):
Oh, yeah.
Harold (21:17):
My lifetime.
It never gets old, though.
Jimmy (21:20):
Well, I'm sure I talked about this when we were talking about the strips the first time.
But I'm convinced that that's Schulz heard Harold Angel in the way the kids say it in the Christmas special.
And it's stuck in his mind when they sing Hark!
The Harold Angel Sing.
To me, it clearly sounds like Hark!
The Harold Angel Sing.
(21:42):
When I did my Peanuts tribute thing, I included that.
I was interviewed about it in my local paper.
And the guy asked me why, and I explained why.
And he was like, oh, he didn't find that very entertaining or amusing.
I think he thought that I just spelled it wrong and he was going to be able to get me.
Probably spelled five other things wrong.
(22:02):
You could have seen one of those.
Yeah, I think it's cute.
I'll never understand the hockey stick portion of this.
Harold (22:10):
No, that seems like a strange thing to swap out for Hark!
No matter.
I mean, it has the same beginning letter, but that's about it.
It's very, very odd.
Jimmy (22:26):
Totally weird.
Harold (22:27):
I must say Harold Angel has a nice approachable hat.
Jimmy (22:30):
That is a nice approachable hat.
How's the approachable hair working out for you?
Harold (22:33):
It's working.
I'm getting there.
Jimmy (22:38):
Well, you're going to be in Harrisburg, PA.
I have many hats.
Maybe you could try a couple on and see if one of them is approachable.
Harold (22:46):
Yeah, I'll try on the REM Michael's type hat.
Jimmy (22:50):
That's a different podcast.
That one does not leave the house.
And allegedly, Michael Stipe's hat.
Allegedly.
Harold (22:58):
Allegedly, yes.
Jimmy (22:59):
How long is the...
Yeah, 31 years.
You can steal a hat.
31 years.
No one's coming after you.
All right.
Anyway, December 22nd.
I paid for that.
We are in...
Okay, so now it's another school play.
And in this one, Marcy is playing Mary and Peppermint Patty is playing the sheep.
(23:22):
And Peppermint Patty complains constantly that she is playing a sheep.
And every time there is a Christmas pageant, she plays a sheep.
But here we are in it.
And Franklin is on stage and he's playing Gabriel.
And he says, I am Gabriel.
Do not be afraid, Mary.
And then Mary slash Marcy says, Behold, I am the handmaiden of the Lord.
(23:46):
And then Peppermint Patty's sheep says, Baa!
With an exclamation point.
And then Franklin says, I am Gabriel, Mary.
And I couldn't hear you because of the sheep.
This is really funny because she is doing a bit where she is really method acting the baa's throughout as she prepares for this.
Michael (24:07):
Well, this is a case where the sequential art form falls down.
Harold (24:13):
Right.
Michael (24:14):
There would have to be a way to have the baa and the handmaiden of the Lord in the same pile.
Jimmy (24:21):
Well, if I were going to do this and totally, like do a Jimmy Gownley version not that Schulz would ever do this, he would just break my fingers for thinking about it.
But I would draw it exactly as it is, but I'd take the baa and I'd extend it over into the second balloon.
I'd actually cover up her words.
Michael (24:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Harold (24:39):
Well, so and then here's the strange thing, in the animated special, then they have the dilemma of whether they do it in sequence so it doesn't make any sense or whether we can't hear what Marcy is saying and Peppermint Patty is buying over her.
Yeah, right.
Not having seen it recently, I'm assuming they did it the way the strip did it where she says her full line and then Peppermint Patty says her bye.
Jimmy (25:08):
Now, the way they do it, I believe, I mean, I can't swear to this, I saw it a few weeks ago, but they just have her going bye, bye, bye, bye throughout and underneath it.
Harold (25:19):
Well, it makes sense.
Jimmy (25:19):
I think that's how they do it, yeah, which is a pretty good way to handle it.
I love the artwork in the first panel especially.
I think Marcy looks adorable as Mary.
It really brings me back to my childhood Christmas pageants, kids wearing towels on their head.
Harold (25:39):
She looks like Sister Mercy there.
Jimmy (25:41):
Yeah, she really does.
She really does.
No wings for Franklin though.
Harold (25:45):
No wings and bare feet for an angel standing on top of a box to represent being higher up in the sky there.
Jimmy (25:55):
It's pretty funny though.
I mean, there's no indication.
I wonder why he didn't put any of the just pop culture ways you draw a kid dressed as an angel.
The tinsel halo, the wings.
December 23rd, 1989.
(26:16):
Now this sequence is Snoopy is somehow working for the Salvation Army and he is out there ringing his bell and Sally approaches him.
He's dressed as Santa Claus and Sally says, I don't think you're the real Santa Claus.
If you're the real Santa, where are your helpers?
And then we see three little birds go by, assuming Woodstock is one of them, with little signs that say help, help, help.
(26:41):
And then Sally looks after them saying, that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
And then we have this weird possible snoopy talking balloon that says, who cares?
Merry Christmas, sweetie.
Harold (26:52):
Woof, woof, woof.
So we get the speech balloon instead of the thought bubble because of the woof, woof, woof, right?
Jimmy (26:59):
I guess so.
And this is the first one.
This is the one I went to look at immediately.
I was like, I want to see how they adapt this.
And they just cut it off.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
And that's where it is.
Harold (27:10):
No woof, woof, woof?
Jimmy (27:12):
Nope, nothing.
Michael (27:14):
This might be my least favorite Peanut Street flavor.
Liz (27:19):
Even though it has Sally in it.
Michael (27:21):
Even though it has Sally in it.
Jimmy (27:21):
Well, that's what makes it an even greater betrayal.
Harold (27:24):
She's agreeing with you.
It looks like Michael.
You're the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
The little birds each with their signs.
Help, help, help.
Jimmy (27:32):
Michael, would it bother you if it just ended with, that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen?
Michael (27:38):
Because the help, help, help joke isn't really very good.
Jimmy (27:40):
Yeah, okay.
Liz (27:41):
We had improved it when we talked about it.
Jimmy (27:43):
Oh, really?
Liz (27:44):
What, what, what, yeah, we had the birds, the signs say something else.
Jimmy (27:50):
I have no recollection of that, but I bet it was hilarious.
And if you want to find out what you can do there is you can go back and binge all these episodes.
There's like 137 now.
We would love for you to check them all out.
Liz (28:02):
Michael suggested it could be ho ho ho.
Jimmy (28:03):
Oh, yeah, that's cute.
That's cute.
There you go, Sparky.
We fixed that one for you.
November 29, 1990.
Now we're in to Charlie Brown world where he is trying to buy gloves for his beloved Peggy Jean.
So we get a little bit of Peggy Jean animation in this sequence.
(28:25):
And we see Charlie Brown at the counter here and he says, Yes, ma'am, I'd like to buy a Christmas present for a girl I know.
I was thinking maybe a pair of gloves.
And Charlie Brown says, Would it help if I described her?
And then he continues, Well, she has 10 fingers.
Harold (28:43):
That's helpful to a glove salesman.
Jimmy (28:45):
I think, though, this might have been better if Charlie Brown was doing it being prompted by the salesperson.
Like if the third panel said, Can I describe her?
You're right, because Charlie Brown is just setting himself up to describe it and then I don't think a glove salesman would ask.
Harold (29:07):
Right?
Jimmy (29:08):
Well, no, but neither would a person go up and say, I'm trying to buy a glove for someone with ten fingers.
Michael (29:15):
But it's important that we improve all these things.
Jimmy (29:18):
It is.
Michael (29:20):
That's her job.
Harold (29:22):
The Charlie Brown would think it would be helpful.
That's pretty Charlie Brown.
Jimmy (29:28):
There's a good looking little perfumish counter there.
You can sort of tell from a department store.
Harold (29:36):
Yeah, you can smell it.
Jimmy (29:38):
Yeah, I think Charlie Brown looks good with his Zip-a-Tone outfit and approachable hat.
Now, none of these hats are ever actually sideways, right?
I mean, that's very important, I think.
But he just draws them that way, you know?
And I actually draw a comic strip for Scout Life magazine and they wear hats.
(30:01):
And I just want to do the sideways hat like Schulz does.
But as soon as you do it, it looks like it's just Charles Schulz.
He's like he owns it.
You know what I mean?
It looks like such a ripoff.
So I end up trying to draw it in some sort of perspective.
This sequence continues, December 1st, 1990.
(30:23):
Charlie Brown is talking to Sally who's sitting in her favorite spot, the beanbag chair, assuming she's watching TV.
And Charlie Brown says to her, I wanted to buy Peggy Jean some gloves for Christmas, but they cost $25.
And Sally says she's going to be disappointed when she finds out her boyfriend is a cheapskate.
And Charlie Brown says, I'm not a cheapskate.
(30:46):
I just don't have $25.
To which Sally says, put it on your credit card.
Which Charlie Brown says, I don't have a credit card.
And Sally answers, so long, Peggy Jean.
No, we've done this one before, but I just think it's one of the great Sally insights and lines.
(31:06):
And I think it's great that she doesn't look up from the TV to deliver it at any point.
Harold (31:12):
Yeah.
But boy, you know, in today's dollars, that's over 50 bucks.
So Charlie Brown was, he wasn't going to Dollar Tree.
Jimmy (31:21):
No.
Harold (31:22):
He could have found some cheap gloves, but that would not be worthy of Peggy Jean either, I guess.
Jimmy (31:28):
Yeah.
And so he goes on in this sequence and he sells a bunch of his stuff.
He's trying to sell autographed baseballs and he sells his entire comic collection, which we definitely looked at when we discussed these strips last time.
And now he's raised some cash and he's back at the counter and he says, Yes, ma'am, I sold my whole collection of comic books.
(31:51):
See, here's the money.
Now I can buy those gloves for that girl I like.
And then who should show up at just that moment?
But Peggy Jean.
Brownie Charles, she says.
And Charlie Brown's happy to see her and says, Peggy Jean, what are you doing here?
And then she shows him, I've been shopping with my mother.
Look, I just bought this new pair of gloves.
(32:12):
I'm sending Charlie Brown's hat flying off his head.
Not sure what the obsession was with the gloves.
Oh, also we can see Peggy Jean is zippotoned here.
She is definitely a redhead in the animation.
And I can't help but think that that was hedging people's, or hedging their bets so people could think of her as the little red-haired girl if they chose.
(32:35):
Casual fans, you know what I mean?
Uh-huh, was that Michael?
Don't approve.
Michael (32:45):
I'm packing up.
Jimmy (32:49):
All right, well, there you go.
That's a little short one for us this week.
We just wanted to give you a little Christmas present, or a holiday present, regardless of why you celebrate, because we are so grateful.
Harold (33:00):
So where can you see this special, Jimmy?
Is it on Apple TV?
Yes.
Jimmy (33:06):
There is a rip of it from VHS, the original VHS on YouTube, and there's the version that I will link to that has the strips that are all adapted, which is not the complete special.
It just, you know, cuts from one sequence to the other.
So there's a bunch of different ways you can experience this.
And of course, we would love for you to just read along with us.
(33:26):
And if you want to heads up on that type of thing, what you need to do is go over to unpackingpeanuts.com, sign up for the great Peanuts reread.
That'll get you one email a month, and that'll let you know what we're going to be discussing, and if anything special is coming up.
Other than that, if you want to keep in touch with us, you can of course send us an email.
We're unpackingpeanuts at gmail.com.
(33:48):
You can also call the hotline where we're 717-219-4162.
And then we're at Unpack Peanuts on what Liz?
Liz (33:59):
Instagram and thread.
Jimmy (34:01):
And we're at Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky and YouTube.
So we would love to see you there.
And we'd love to hear from you because if I don't hear, I worry.
Guys, that's all I got.
Anybody have anything else?
Or are we wrapping up?
Liz (34:14):
Next week, we're re-releasing our Charlie Brown Christmas episode.
And the following week, we're taking a break.
We wish everyone a lovely holiday season.
Jimmy (34:25):
Yeah.
Whatever you're celebrating out there, have a great holiday from us.
And we will see you soon and we'll be thinking about you.
So until then, from Michael, Harold and Liz, this is Jimmy saying, be of good cheer.
Michael (34:37):
Yes.
Be of good cheer.
Liz (34:40):
Unpacking Peanuts is copyrighted by Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner.
Produced and edited by Liz Sumner.
Music by Michael Cohen.
Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads.
Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube.
(35:02):
For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Have a wonderful day and thanks for listening.
Jimmy (35:10):
I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
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