March 25, 2025 • 50 mins
Hey, batta batta! It’s baseball time again, and the gang discusses one of Michael’s favorite Peanuts sequences and Jimmy fails to find Harold a favorite team. Join us as we explore the story that inspired the rarely seen “Charlie Brown’s All Stars!” Plus: Here’s a question…Why?
Transcript available at UnpackingPeanuts.com
Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner. Produced and edited by Liz Sumner. Music by Michael Cohen. Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show follow @unpackpeanuts on Instagram and Threads, and @unpackingpeanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube. For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Thanks for listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
VO (00:08):
Welcome to Unpacking Peanuts, the podcast where three cartoonists take an in-depth look at the greatest comic strip of all time, Peanuts by Charles M.
Schulz.
Jimmy (00:24):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the show.
It's that time of year again.
We're born again.
There's new grass on the field.
It's baseball time.
And guess what?
I'll be your umpire for this game.
My name's Jimmy Gownley.
I am also a cartoonist.
I did things like Seven Good Reasons Not To Grow Up, The Dumbest Idea Ever, and Amelia Rules.
(00:45):
And as a baseball player, I struck out 27 times in a row.
Joining me as always are my pals, co-hosts and fellow cartoonists.
He's a playwright and a composer, both for the band Complicated People, as well as for this very podcast.
He's the co-creator of the original comic book Price Guide, the original editor for Amelia Rules, and the creator of such great strips as Strange Attractors, A Gathering of Spells, Entangled River.
(01:09):
It's Michael Cohen.
Michael (01:10):
Say hey.
Jimmy (01:11):
And he's executive producer and writer of Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie Comics and the creator of the Instagram sensation, Sweetest Beasts.
It's Harold Buchholz.
Harold (01:21):
Hello.
Jimmy (01:22):
So guys, are you so excited?
Spring training.
I know you're happy.
The Pirates are two and one.
So once again, I'm deluding myself into thinking they will come in some place other than last.
I'm sure your guys are all very excited about baseball.
Michael (01:36):
Why did you pick the Pirates over the Phillies?
Because you are closer to the Phillies.
Jimmy (01:41):
I believe, I have no idea.
Well, the reason I picked it was because my dad picked it.
I believe the reason my dad picked the Pirates was because he was one of seven boys.
And all other, the six other ones were all Philly fans.
But yeah, total contrarian.
So I come by it honestly, you know, it's hard to be the son of a contrarian because how do you outcontrary the contrarians?
Harold (02:05):
It's like the counter counterculture.
Jimmy (02:07):
Yes, right.
Michael (02:09):
Well, I did the same.
I picked the rival team of our home team.
Jimmy (02:14):
Yeah, and you lived in the city.
I at least had some wiggle room.
Michael (02:17):
Yeah, right.
Liz (02:19):
I grew up really close to the Phillies, but was a Red Sox fan.
Jimmy (02:23):
Really?
Harold (02:24):
My choice was to make no choice.
Jimmy (02:28):
Here's what we're going to do though.
We're going to find a baseball team that's going to be, we're going to just designate as Harold's official team by the end of this episode.
Harold (02:40):
Some place in Tokyo or something.
Jimmy (02:42):
Well, what about the Cleveland Guardians?
It's Midwest.
They got that new name.
That sounds pretty good.
What do you think about them?
Don't jump on it.
Just try it out for a while, and I'll send out another name a little bit.
Michael (02:56):
We're all rooting for Montreal.
Jimmy (02:58):
We're all rooting for Montreal?
Michael (03:00):
Well, yeah, Canadians.
Go Canadians.
Jimmy (03:02):
Well, there's no Montreal team for about 30 years.
Michael (03:05):
Is that right?
What happened?
Why didn't they tell me?
Jimmy (03:09):
They moved to Washington.
Harold (03:10):
Time marches on.
Michael (03:11):
So Toronto.
Harold (03:13):
Yeah, now they're the Washington Canadians.
Jimmy (03:15):
The Washington, oh, it's the, actually that would be my dad's favorite team.
If they were so Washington Canadians, that would have been absolutely.
Liz (03:23):
I don't get it.
Jimmy (03:25):
Well, this national capital, but they're named the Canadians.
It's contrarian.
All right, so we'll start, we'll just try on Cleveland Guardians and we'll see how it goes.
Harold (03:37):
Sounds very marvelous.
Jimmy (03:39):
Yeah, it used to be the Cleveland Indians.
Harold (03:40):
They're trying to cash in without getting in trouble.
Jimmy (03:43):
Yeah.
I didn't even think about that.
I wonder if that did.
Do you think that played into it?
Harold (03:49):
I mean, I think Disney's lawyers are working on the cease and desist right now.
Jimmy (03:54):
Well, they have one ready to go for everyone in America.
Harold (04:00):
They have to keep busy, you know, idle hands and all.
Jimmy (04:06):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So since it is good old baseball season starting up here, I thought we would take a moment from our regular schedule and just go back and look at a classic strip from 1960, a classic sequence of strips.
They were adapted into the special Charlie Brown's All Stars, which is the second animated special.
Harold (04:34):
Yeah, which I've never seen.
Jimmy (04:35):
Oh, really?
Harold (04:36):
And Michael I know hasn't either.
Jimmy (04:38):
Oh, yeah.
So I'm the only one that's seen it.
I've seen it like twice because about, I mean, it's never shown, but about 20 years ago now, they put out DVDs like Peanuts in the 60s, Peanuts in the 70s for the specials and it had all of them.
And I got the 60s one of course.
And yeah, it was on there.
It's okay.
(04:58):
I mean, there's a reason it's not shown like all the others, but it's okay.
Harold (05:02):
Interesting.
Yeah.
What's the reason?
Just not very good?
Jimmy (05:06):
It doesn't have, yeah.
Well, I mean, it doesn't have the universal appeal of like the Christmas one or the Halloween one, I think.
Harold (05:13):
I guess they went by ratings, if people were watching it, they'd bring it back every time.
Jimmy (05:18):
Yeah, there's no like, when do you play it?
Are you going to play it at the World Series?
Are you going to play it in the spring?
Or is it just throughout summer?
You know, I think, and also, I'm not sure.
Charlie, the plot is Charlie Brown is getting new uniforms from a sponsor for this team, but, or some reason they're getting a sponsor, and the sponsor won't sponsor the team unless he gets rid of the girls and Snoopy, the dog.
Harold (05:44):
Oh, wow.
Jimmy (05:44):
And Charlie Brown stands up for whatever and sticks with his team.
So that's what Charlie Brown's All Stars is about.
But I knew these from the book, Slide Charlie Brown Slide, which was a gift in fifth grade from my teacher, Ms.
Klinger.
So Ms.
Klinger, this one is a, Suzy Klinger.
If you're out there, this one's dedicated to you.
(06:06):
If you characters out there want to follow along, well, a couple of things you should do.
The first thing you should do is go over to our website, unpackingpeanuts.com and sign up for the great Peanuts re-read and that'll get you one email a month that tells you what we're doing.
Maybe not everything we're doing, but most of the things that we're doing.
We have to have some privacy for God's sake.
Harold (06:28):
We're not going to show you what we had for dinner at the local restaurant.
Jimmy (06:32):
No, unless it's really good and or peanuts related, I guess.
Harold (06:36):
Well, yeah.
Jimmy (06:36):
While you're over there, check out the website.
Liz has done a great job maintaining it and putting all kinds of good stuff in the old Peanuts Obscurities page.
But anyway, once you do that, you can follow along with us.
If you wanted to follow along with this one right now, just go over to May of 1960 on gocomics.com and you'll be able to see all of these strips I'm talking about and read along with us.
(07:01):
With all that preamble out of the way, how about we get right to it?
Sure.
Michael (07:05):
Got it.
Jimmy (07:06):
May 16th, 1960, it's the middle of a baseball game.
Lucy and Patty are sitting on the bench and Lucy has her eyes covered.
She says, I can't look.
Patty says, the score is three to two in the last of the ninth.
And Lucy, looking very upset, says, but we have two outs.
Patty says, but Charlie Brown is on third and our best hitter is coming up.
(07:29):
Lucy is still looking very nervous and says, say, you don't think Charlie Brown will try to steal home, do you?
And Patty says, never, not even Charlie Brown would do anything that stupid.
And in the last panel, we see Charlie Brown standing on third thinking, I wonder if I should try to steal home.
Michael (07:49):
Classic.
I mean, he poses the question at the end, but there's two other big questions that come up in the strip.
We do not find out who is their best hitter.
Who's coming up?
Jimmy (08:02):
Oh yeah, it's got to be Snoopy, right?
Michael (08:04):
It's got to be Snoopy.
It's got to be Snoopy, because the other characters appear, rooting on the sidelines.
Jimmy (08:12):
Wow, that's some good detective work.
Yeah, it's got to be Snoopy, I guess, because who else?
Yeah, interesting.
Michael (08:17):
Then the other big question, of course, is, how did he get on third?
Jimmy (08:23):
I assume he was hit by a pitch.
Michael (08:26):
Wild pitch.
Jimmy (08:27):
Yeah, wild pitch.
I don't know, maybe a balk or something like that.
Yeah.
Now, going to Charlie Brown's being a terrible manager, he's not thinking that on third base.
He's saying it out loud.
So that's probably the first thing he did wrong.
(08:49):
Because there's a third baseman, supposedly, right?
Standing right next to him.
Harold (08:54):
It's interesting.
Jimmy (08:55):
What do you think of, see, having gone through, how many decades, three decades since this strip, what do you think now with the whiplash of looking back at this earlier style?
Harold (09:08):
Expressions.
He sells his expressions much more broadly in 1960 than he does in 1994, which we looked at last.
It's really interesting to see how subtle he has gotten with his characters.
Michael (09:28):
The lines seem a lot thicker.
Harold (09:31):
Yeah.
Michael (09:32):
We're confident, but also notice the balloon arrows are nice and pointy.
Jimmy (09:38):
Oh, yeah.
Harold (09:39):
Yeah, he's only got one incomplete one there.
Jimmy (09:42):
Yeah, third panel.
Harold (09:43):
The third panel, yeah.
It looks very old school, traditional, pointy, especially for the fourth panel with Charlie Brown, saying what he should not say out loud.
This is something I haven't really noticed a whole lot.
How often do we see the human characters thinking with the thought balloon that we always see with Snoopy?
(10:07):
Does Schulz avoid that?
I'm trying to remember.
It's not striking me one way or the other.
Does it happen often?
Or does he make a rule for himself that Snoopy owns that?
Jimmy (10:18):
I don't think so.
Michael (10:18):
Yeah, it never occurred to me to check.
Jimmy (10:22):
Yeah, I don't really know.
I mean, there are lots of times when Charlie Brown is all by himself and he is talking and not thinking.
Well, like the rest of the sequence.
Michael (10:30):
Well, when he's sitting on the bench at school eating his peanut butter sandwich, thinking about the little redhead girl.
Is he saying that out loud?
Jimmy (10:39):
I think he's saying that out loud.
Harold (10:40):
He's saying it out loud.
Well, it's also interesting that often the model for a cartoonist is if you're speaking and you have a word balloon, you show the mouth open.
Schulz does not do that when it looks like he should be thinking and shouldn't be saying anything, but he still gets that balloon.
Maybe that is a Snoopy thing.
He's trying to delineate Snoopy more and so he doesn't give himself the flexibility with the kids.
Jimmy (11:05):
Yeah, that might be it.
Or maybe there's just some internal thing he just thinks it's funnier.
I don't know.
May 17th, this continues, Charlie Brown is still there on third and he's saying, this is my big chance to be a hero.
And now he just edges a little bit as if he's going to take a big lead off third and says, if I could steal home, the game would be all tied up and I'd be the hero.
(11:32):
And then in panel three, he does a little movement with his elbows as if he's going to take off for home.
And then in the last panel, he says, I haven't caught the nerve.
Michael (11:43):
Boy, I know that feeling.
Jimmy (11:46):
But this is the right instinct to not do it because this is a terrible idea.
Liz (11:52):
Did you ever steal, Michael?
Michael (11:54):
Oh, no, nobody's still.
Jimmy (11:57):
Yeah, I don't in Little League.
Michael (11:58):
We played on basically on concrete.
Not too much sliding happening.
Liz (12:04):
Yeah.
Jimmy (12:05):
I think when I played Little League, you weren't allowed to take leads and you could steal on a pass ball, but you didn't steal just on a regular play.
But never in, I mean, there's probably been less than 100 successful stealings of home plate in baseball history.
I mean, it's next to impossible.
Michael (12:26):
And you can find out exactly how many there are.
Well, it seems to me like baseball has statistics for everything.
Jimmy (12:36):
Oh, that is true.
Yes.
I thought you had it at your fingertips.
Michael (12:40):
No, no, no.
It would be easy to find.
Why don't you Google it, you blockhead?
Jimmy (12:45):
Yes, it would be.
It would be.
Baseball is a mathematician's game, I think.
Not that I'm good at math, but yeah.
That's another reason you should like it, Harold.
Harold (12:57):
Whoa.
Yeah, I'm just looking up trying to see.
Of course you.
Oh, it says, wow.
But you're not kidding.
This is 2023.
It says, in the last 50 years, 3,228 base runners have tried.
Any guess how many made it?
Jimmy (13:15):
How many?
Liz (13:16):
220.
Harold (13:17):
864.
Jimmy (13:19):
How many?
Harold (13:20):
864.
So just over a quarter of them actually made it.
Jimmy (13:23):
That's impressive.
Harold (13:24):
Yeah, right.
Jimmy (13:25):
But you, I mean, you was never tried.
You was certainly never tried it with two outs in the last inning and you're down one.
That would be insane.
Harold (13:34):
Right.
So it said that, but it was only, well, this is weird.
And it says 3,228, but it said it happened 10 times in the 2023 season successfully, I guess.
Interesting.
Jimmy (13:47):
Oh, I'm wondering.
Harold (13:47):
This was them.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Jimmy (13:50):
How about the St.
Louis Cardinals?
How does that feel, Harold?
Harold (13:55):
Well, I'll be back.
I did.
Liz (13:57):
It is Missouri.
Harold (13:58):
I did live in St.
Louis for a while, so there's something there.
But guess how many times Babe Ruth stole home?
You see, she's not the kind of guy you think would be burning down the-
Jimmy (14:11):
No, how many?
Michael (14:12):
Well, he doesn't look like a pitcher either.
Jimmy (14:14):
Well, that's true too.
Or an athlete of any kind.
Harold (14:20):
It says Ruth did it 10 times in this career.
Of course, it could have been the first year.
Jimmy (14:24):
Yeah.
Harold (14:25):
You know, I don't know.
Jimmy (14:26):
Wow, that's amazing.
All right, so that's all Charlie Brown's trying to do, pull a Babe Ruth.
And that continues on May 18th.
So here Charlie Brown goes, he's wiggling his elbows, he's standing on the side of the old bag, and he says, I'm going to steal home and I'm going to be a hero.
Get ready now.
Here I go.
(14:47):
Don't be a coward.
Here I go.
Don't be scared.
Here I go.
Zoom.
Here I go.
Don't be a coward.
Here I go.
Don't be scared.
Here I stay.
Harold (14:58):
I like how his hat kind of flattens out on top of his head in the last panel, like it's deflated.
Jimmy (15:05):
It's amazing and it's actually, it did it a little bit in the one above, but it does it even more this time as he gets a little more embarrassed by himself or something like that.
Harold (15:17):
It's great.
Liz (15:18):
And Harold, you didn't mention his tongue in the first panel.
Harold (15:22):
Oh, yeah, the thinking tongue, you know, when you stick it up in the corner of your mouth.
We all know that from Peanuts, especially when somebody is drawing or writing on a piece of paper.
That's what you do, right?
Jimmy (15:33):
That's absolutely what you do.
You know, it's amazing that this strip does have international legs and people, because baseball is a pretty big part of it.
And, you know, baseball is so American.
Even though-
Michael (15:50):
I've got to go look.
I actually do have a reprint book in Italian from the 70s.
And I got to look to see if there are baseball strips in there.
They might just not bother.
Harold (16:03):
Right.
Jimmy (16:04):
Oh, yeah, maybe not, right?
It would be interesting.
It would definitely be interesting to see.
The thing that I thought that was interesting about this was I was kind of comparing this in my mind while I was reading it to the I Hit a Home Run sequence that we read not too long ago.
(16:29):
And if the Home Run thing had happened back here in the early 60s, it would have been a stretched out drama before the Home Run.
And then in the 90s, he just cuts to, hey, guess what, you don't even see it.
He just comes home and says, I hit a Home Run today.
Part of me is that just age and I just want to get to the good part?
(16:54):
Or do you know what I mean?
I think he really would have in the height of the world's obsession with Peanuts as a daily strip, I think he would have taken the opportunity to milk the drama of Charlie Brown's Home Run a lot more.
Harold (17:09):
Well, it's interesting to me looking at these all these years earlier, now that we're in the 90s, and think who Schulz is as a person.
It seems like in 1960, he was, I don't know, more balled up, and there's things that he didn't do.
(17:32):
And it seems like as life went on, that kind of opened up for him, this, I have a sense of Schulz having worked through some of the things that he was afraid to do as when he was younger, that he's now able to do.
And so maybe I really feel this, this like, I really want to do something, but I just, I just can't bring myself to do it.
(17:54):
The baby isn't so much who he is later in his life.
Jimmy (18:00):
Like, in what sense, I could bring it, like, bring myself to do something in what sense?
Harold (18:07):
Well, number one, he's 35 years into massive success and sustained, and he's the elder statesman of comics.
He's got it behind him.
And I'm sure everybody has regrets of things that they love to have done, but didn't do.
I don't know, it just seems like he, even though he didn't travel as much later in life.
Jimmy (18:27):
Oh, I see what you're saying, yes.
Harold (18:28):
I just get this sense of somebody who has lived a very full life, and the idea that I've missed an opportunity here and there, isn't so much a part of who he is.
And when you are processing or living something, and then you're putting it in the strip as Schulz did all 50 years, this is him saying to me in 1960, I've got lots of situations where I would have done something, but I didn't dare, more so than in 1994.
Jimmy (19:00):
That's interesting.
Liz (19:01):
But isn't that true of all of us who have grown over time?
Harold (19:07):
I think some people really have regrets later in life, and they can become angry or depressed because they could have done something, and they didn't.
And then there are other people who are the late bloomers.
To me, Schulz kind of feels like a late bloomer.
I mean, that man about town, kind of, Schulz that begins in the 70s, and that he looks very suave in the photos.
(19:38):
When I see him in the 60s, because this is before even they did that documentary on him, he just seems a little more uptight, which is kind of maybe where the culture was in general anyway.
I don't know.
It just seems like, yeah, I would hope for most people as life has gone on, they've taken more chances and they have more things behind them, there's more confidence.
Jimmy (20:00):
Well, and it's interesting, and one of the great things he is able to do as our cartoonist is to take that thing that Liz says we all experience and turn it into this very specific experience with Charlie Brown, but that it has applications for people who aren't interested in, like people who aren't huge St.
Louis Cardinals fans.
(20:22):
How's that feel?
Does this feel right?
Harold (20:25):
It just feels odd.
Jimmy (20:27):
Okay, we're working on it.
We'll get you something else.
I'll see what I have in the back.
Harold (20:32):
Thank you.
Yeah.
Do you have anything in green?
Oh, you're sure the A's.
All right.
There we go.
A's, I like that.
Jimmy (20:40):
They have that movie Moneyball.
Harold (20:41):
My blood type is A plus.
Jimmy (20:44):
Okay, you got your A positive and you watched Moneyball and liked it.
Harold (20:47):
Yeah, Moneyball.
Jimmy (20:49):
And that's the A's.
That's two things.
All right.
Liz (20:52):
Closing in.
Jimmy (20:54):
I played on the A's Little League team.
Harold (20:57):
What does that mean?
You're allowed to name and no cease and desist from them, huh?
Disney did not own Little League.
Jimmy (21:05):
I don't know that you can copyright A.
We just had an A on a hat.
Well, I would go.
So let's take a little break right now.
We'll get some water and a snack and we'll come back on the other side.
Michael (21:45):
All right, let's get back to it.
The suspense is unbearable.
Jimmy (21:50):
May 19th, Charlie Brown's hanging out there on third.
I gotta try it.
If I'm gonna be a hero, I gotta try to steal home.
First, I'll dance around a little on the baseline to confuse their pitcher.
And he does this.
It's a great try.
And then I'll, he says, well, he looks very surreptitiously over towards the pitcher.
Liz (22:13):
Take off.
Jimmy (22:14):
And he does just that.
He takes off for home.
Cliffhanger.
That's a great cliffhanger for a comic strip, I think.
That's really good.
Harold (22:23):
And that last panel, my gosh, that's amazing last panel.
The art is incredible.
The speed lines are fantastic.
I love that they blur out the bottom of the hat.
And he doesn't finish the lines under the shoe, the back of the head, and the bottom of his mouth.
(22:44):
There's just a lot of really cool...
Oh, and you get the sense that the black of his pants is part of the streaking past.
It's a little bit darker past the back of the pants as well.
It's like we're seeing that in the past.
There's so many cool things here.
Jimmy (23:01):
Maybe Charlie Brown got a little scared, and that's what's causing it.
Harold (23:05):
No, no, Jimmy.
Oh, no.
Jimmy (23:13):
How about the Seattle Mariners?
Harold (23:15):
The Mariners.
Mariners, that sounds like Marinara.
I don't know.
We'll have to keep working on that.
Jimmy (23:21):
All right, all right.
So we're sticking with the A's for now.
How about panel two?
Harold (23:24):
So I have to ask you, for those of you who've played that panel two, why would you do that?
Like, oh, the pitchers like that don't cause attention to you, right?
And are you fooling them that you might actually go back to second?
Jimmy (23:39):
What is the thinking here?
I think what he's doing is he's taking a little bit of a lead off third, and he's dancing back as if he would go home or dive back to third.
Michael (23:51):
Yeah, I think he wants to picture the throw to third.
Jimmy (23:53):
To third, right.
Michael (23:53):
Because if it's a bad throw, then you're home.
Jimmy (23:56):
Right, exactly.
Harold (23:58):
Okay.
Well, thank you.
Thank you for someone who's baseball illiterate.
Jimmy (24:02):
Yeah.
The other thing about this is saying it's a bad idea, but then you say, well, Babe Ruth did it 10 times in his career.
It's only a bad idea because Charlie Brown, we know what's going to happen with Charlie Brown.
Doing bad, making bad decisions that pan out, I guess is what makes an athletic hero.
(24:24):
You do try the things that other people are not going to try.
When you succeed, like Larry Bird, my favorite basketball player once went out in the court and said, yeah, I'm going to beat it today, but I'm just going to be lefty.
Now, and he played the entire game lefty and he scored four points.
Harold (24:40):
No.
Jimmy (24:41):
Oh, yeah.
Harold (24:42):
What?
Jimmy (24:42):
Yes, it's insane.
Harold (24:44):
I don't know.
Larry Bird never stole home.
Jimmy (24:47):
No, Larry Bird never stole home.
But if someone else tried that and they just failed, it would be, why was that idiot playing with his left hand?
Harold (24:56):
He'd be sewing shoes the next day.
Jimmy (24:59):
Exactly.
May 20th.
Now, the gang is all watching this debacle occur.
It's the whole crew, Schroeder, Lucy, Patty, Violent and Linus and they yell, Charlie Brown is trying to steal home.
Then they yell, slide, Charlie Brown, slide.
(25:21):
And then the third panel, we just see a poof plume of dust.
And then the last panel is Charlie Brown just lying on his back in the base path with the rest of the team around him looking annoyed.
And Lucy says, oh, you blockhead.
Michael (25:39):
So I think we can narrow down who the batter was.
Well, it could be Snoopy, it could be Shermie, it could be Pigpan, I think.
Jimmy (25:48):
Oh yeah.
Michael (25:49):
So one of those three is the best hitter.
Jimmy (25:52):
Well, it could be Shermie too, I guess.
Michael (25:55):
Yeah, I included him.
But that would have been in his Shermometer if he was that good.
Harold (26:05):
Well, maybe anonymous is another word we should use to describe Shermie, if he's like-
Liz (26:09):
Shernonimous.
Jimmy (26:11):
Oh, wow.
Harold (26:14):
How about that?
Jimmy (26:14):
Anytime something happens in the remainder of the strip where we can't figure out exactly who it is, it happens Shernonimously.
It was Sherm-
Harold (26:23):
Yeah, maybe Shermie has been in the strip all along.
Jimmy (26:27):
Right.
Michael (26:28):
In disguise.
Liz (26:29):
Maybe he was that person we thought was Patty.
Jimmy (26:35):
This is another great-looking comic strip.
There's something about seeing all of the characters or as many of the characters as you can get together in one panel that I just find so satisfying.
Harold (26:48):
Yeah.
We got 16 characters in three panels here.
Jimmy (26:53):
That's a long day's work, dude, and it just looks so good.
I mean, that second one where they all are leaning, like why he decided to make them all lean the same direction.
But it works, right?
Like they're like, it has something to do with like them sliding too.
I can't describe why that works.
But if I drew that, they would all be in different poses and different positions, right?
(27:18):
But he does them all doing the same thing and it looks so good.
Harold (27:22):
Well, it's interesting.
And why are they looking that angle?
Because they're looking to our left.
Michael (27:28):
Well, if you assume the bench is near third base, they'd be leaning towards home.
Harold (27:36):
So he's past.
Michael (27:37):
Yeah.
Harold (27:38):
Yeah.
And then they have to walk all the way out to meet him and stand around him and glare at him.
Boy, I've never seen the Linus look so miffed.
Jimmy (27:49):
He really looks annoyed.
Harold (27:51):
That is, boy, you don't want to mess with Linus when he's-
Jimmy (27:55):
He looks more annoyed than even Violet.
Harold (27:59):
Yeah.
She's angry, but yeah, that's pretty rough.
But yeah, the drawing here is beautiful.
I love the black of the open mouths of them screaming with the really dark lettering.
Jimmy (28:16):
Oh, I did too.
Harold (28:17):
It's just great.
Jimmy (28:18):
Really good.
Harold (28:20):
I love how wild the lettering is in the first panel, where somebody or all of them was yelling, Charlie Brown is trying to steal home.
It's, you know, he's doing that really fast.
Jimmy (28:33):
Yeah.
Harold (28:33):
And it's really fun lettering.
It reminds me of a lot of the lettering you've done, Jimmy, where you're just kind of messing with display font to make it just represent what's actually happening, the feel of it.
Jimmy (28:48):
Yeah.
And it's such a fun thing to do because you like drawing, but yeah, it's like putting a motion into letters.
Yeah.
Harold (28:56):
You know, I love that.
I mean, that is that's that's part of the joy of cartooning is that you could do that.
Jimmy (29:04):
Yeah.
How do you think he does like the slide Charlie Brown slide lettering or the take off lettering?
Do you think he uses the regular bold that he uses for things like OU Blockhead in the last panel and like doubles it up?
Does it like a sketchy motion?
Do you think he draws it like an outline and then fills it in?
Harold (29:26):
I think he's doubling or tripling.
Jimmy (29:28):
Yeah, I think he might be doubling too.
Oh, you know what he is because you can see if you look at slide Charlie Brown slide and you look at just the E, you can sort of see it off the edges of the E.
Harold (29:38):
Yeah, which gives it kind of that EC horror kind of look, but they have sharp, crazy edges.
Yeah.
And that they're all crammed together.
The letters are, there's no space in between any of the letters.
It's just one big word that they're yelling in unison.
Jimmy (29:58):
How about the Phillies?
You lived outside of Philly for a while there and they're a good team.
Harold (30:03):
I like a good cheesesteak.
Jimmy (30:05):
Phillies.
Okay, so now we're leading Harold Buchholz's lifelong Phillies devotee.
Harold (30:11):
Yeah, I went to a Rochester Red Wings game when I was a kid.
Oh, that's good.
Going for the minor leagues.
Jimmy (30:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, yeah.
I was trying to think in New York, but you only got your Yankees and Mets and we don't want to go there.
May 21st, everyone's upset.
Wow, we lost the game all because of Charlie Brown.
And Charlie Brown still lying on the base path says, wasn't I out?
And Lucy says, out?
(30:38):
Were you blockhead?
You didn't even get halfway home.
Charlie Brown then just lies there in the base path alone.
And then it slowly turns to dark.
And in the last panel, he's lying out there alone at night and he says, rats.
Michael (30:55):
That makes the joke.
I mean, it's great.
If that was daylight, it wouldn't be half as funny.
Harold (31:01):
No.
How do you like him lying with his hand?
Jimmy (31:07):
The most uncomfortable thing.
Harold (31:09):
Holding himself up so the middle of him, it's just the back of his head and the base of his shoes.
Everything else is kind of floating over.
It shows how tense Charlie Brown must be.
And his little arm is like literally horizontal to the ground.
Jimmy (31:26):
That last panel reminds me of Crazy Cat with all the scratching.
Harold (31:30):
Yeah.
Jimmy (31:31):
Or maybe it's just because it goes from day to night in a panel too.
That's what I'm thinking.
But there's something about that scratchiness underneath the black.
Then we skip May 22nd because that's a Sunday.
And then we're back May 23rd.
Charlie Brown's still lying there.
It's still dark at night.
And he's saying to himself, why did I have to go and try to steal home?
(31:53):
Why?
Why?
And in the next panel outside his house is Linus.
And he senses or hears something.
And then in the third panel, he explores to see what it is.
And we see it's Charlie Brown lying there going, why?
Michael (32:06):
Why?
Why?
Harold (32:07):
Why?
Jimmy (32:08):
And then Linus just walks away saying, I thought I heard a cry of anguish.
Why?
Michael (32:13):
Why?
Jimmy (32:14):
Why?
Why?
Why?
Says Charlie Brown.
So here's a question, why?
Why do you think Charlie Brown did this?
Harold (32:26):
He's a hero, right?
Jimmy (32:29):
And do you think some of his failures or I guess maybe most of his failures are because he wants to not just be good at what he's doing, he wants to be a hero?
Michael (32:40):
But where does he ever try to be a hero?
I mean, not flying a kite, nobody's even watching.
Liz (32:46):
I think he wanted to not be a coward.
He wanted to overcome his fear.
Michael (32:54):
I think it's Lucy's fault.
He goes counseling him that he has to take chances and be more aggressive.
Harold (33:04):
Plus, all of them were telling him to slide before he even got halfway to the...
Jimmy (33:09):
That's true.
That could be on them that he didn't make it.
Harold (33:13):
Maybe, you know.
He choked because of his friends.
Let's try to listen to them.
Liz (33:17):
He could have just kept running.
Harold (33:19):
I mean, this is classic Peanuts in 1960.
The disconnect between the characters.
I think maybe that's also something that has been bridged a little bit as the years go on.
That Linus, who's pretty sensitive about these some things, he comes out to check on Charlie Brown.
(33:41):
Well, he's just curious whether he heard a cry of anguish.
He's not going to say anything to Charlie Brown.
He's not going to try to console him in this strip.
He just wanted to check if he was hearing a cry of anguish.
Then he heads back home.
Right.
Jimmy (33:55):
That is really funny.
Be of good cheer.
Yes, be of good cheer.
Then he leaves him there.
May 24th, Charlie Brown is still lying out there, still night and he's talking to himself, why didn't I just wait on third base?
Why did I have to try to steal home?
Why, why, why, why?
(34:16):
Linus comes back, Charlie Brown.
Then he says to Charlie Brown, I've been asked to tell you that your cries of anguish are keeping the whole neighborhood awake.
In the last panel, Charlie Brown remains there.
He just says to himself, why, why, why, why?
How tiny those whys must have been in the newspaper that day.
Harold (34:41):
I love the formality of Linus.
He runs out there and it's not I've been asked to tell you, it's I have been asked to tell you that your cries of anguish are keeping the whole neighborhood awake.
Jimmy (34:52):
Asked by who?
Harold (34:54):
Is he like going door to door saying he is the, yeah, he's the, I don't know if that's the correct term for, you know, he's looking after the rights and wrongs of the neighborhood, I guess, maybe.
But yeah, he is, he's been sent by the neighborhood.
Liz (35:12):
And he's running.
Harold (35:14):
Right.
Jimmy (35:17):
Well, people need to get to sleep.
It's an early day tomorrow.
May 25th, Charlie Brown is still lying there.
Now Lucy has come out and he says to her, if I had stolen home, I'd have been the hero instead I'm the goat.
And Lucy says, don't think of yourself as being the goat, Charlie Brown.
If you forget about it, everyone else will too.
(35:40):
Then Charlie Brown says, do you really think so Lucy?
And Lucy says, I'm positive.
And then the last panel, she says, good night, goat.
Harold (35:48):
As thousands of millennials scratch their heads.
Michael (35:51):
Yeah.
When did that happen?
Because that confused the hell out of me.
All of a sudden, goat meant good?
Jimmy (35:57):
Yeah, it's weird.
I don't know.
I don't know.
The first time I heard of it this way was in Infinite Jess, P-Goat, prettiest girl of all time.
But I don't think it started there.
I bet it started long before then, but I don't know.
In case anyone out there doesn't know what we're talking about, but yeah, goat now stands for greatest of all time.
Liz (36:20):
But it didn't always.
Jimmy (36:21):
No, it meant you were a buffoon.
Harold (36:25):
Basically, we're saying that the march of time has made Charlie Brown the greatest of all time.
Jimmy (36:34):
Absolutely.
Now he'd want...
This is genius cartooning.
Charlie Brown in panel two, okay?
Lucy says something that possibly could cheer him up a little bit.
Look at him in panel three.
You know what I mean?
His spine straightens up, so he's like, really?
(36:56):
He has a reaction, even though he's not moving at all, except just the slightest little bit.
Harold (37:01):
And he arches his back so that he can tilt his head toward Lucy who's standing behind him.
Jimmy (37:05):
Yeah.
Harold (37:06):
That's fantastic.
Jimmy (37:07):
Isn't that fantastic?
And then he's deflated, of course, by Lucy's punch line, and then he's even more prone than he was previously because he's on the side of his head and he looks more like all of his body is actually touching the ground.
Harold (37:22):
And he's looking at us.
Yeah, like, oh, you know, that kind of Jack Betty stare.
Jimmy (37:28):
Oh, if you zoom in there, that is a complete look of despair on his face.
Harold (37:36):
That's great.
I mean, you're right.
I mean, when you think of what a cartoon is, how a cartoon is processes something and how they try to get it across, he's so in tune with his characters, he's doing an impossible thing with Charlie Brown with that.
But it's so funny.
Jimmy (37:53):
It's so funny.
Harold (37:55):
He has, I mean, how do you get there?
How do you get to the place where you are going to make your character do an impossible physical act because you know it's going to be funny as a cartoon?
Jimmy (38:07):
I don't know.
It has to be supreme confidence because anytime I try to do things, like we talk about this again and again and again and again, and we can recognize it in his work and in other people's work.
But then when you sit down to do something in a similar vein, or maybe not even a similar vein, but to make a bold choice yourself, all the doubt comes in, all the second guessing comes in.
Harold (38:31):
Right.
Shall I steal home?
Should I do it?
Jimmy (38:36):
Whoa, this whole thing is mad.
Harold (38:37):
It is like trying to steal home because it is hard to pull off and it can backfire on you, and you can think it works for you even though it breaks the rules, but you don't know if it's going to work for 90 percent of the rest of the public, unless you just somehow have the supreme sense that it's going to work.
He does it over and over again.
(38:57):
I will say the one thing that I've gotten out of doing this podcast is permission from Charles Schulz to go for it.
There's something that seems a little odd, off model.
You see him doing it over and over again.
Now that I'm talking about it and not just enjoying the strips and reading it through, I'm seeing things and then you guys are bringing things up that I haven't noticed.
(39:26):
It's like, oh my gosh, he's breaking the rules all the time.
They always say you have to know the rules before you break the rules, but he took it to another level because he would take a chance.
Not everything works, but he has an incredibly good track record.
Then once it does work, it's now part of the strip in a way that is unique to him and sets him apart from everybody else.
(39:48):
He amasses one of these after another, after another, after another, until the strip is in a stratosphere where nobody can touch it.
Jimmy (39:55):
Yeah.
Well, this is what makes me think about us talking, comparing peanuts and Calvin and Hobbes, and just comparing things from totally different eras.
Because Watterson was lucky enough to have all of those arrows in his quiver that Schulz invented.
Harold (40:14):
Yeah.
Jimmy (40:15):
Now, I mean, Watterson invented then a bunch of his own too.
Right.
That's what makes the whole field great.
Then we who come along after Watterson get to take, steal his ideas too and put them in our quiver.
But it's amazing to see a master do it.
(40:35):
May 26th.
It's our old pal, Shermie.
Yay.
He and Charlie Brown are walking down the street and he sits and Charlie Brown says, all I wanted to do was be a hero.
But do I ever get to be a hero?
No.
All I ever get to be is the stupid goat.
Then Shermie says to him, don't be discouraged, Charlie Brown.
In this life we live, there are always some bitter pills to be swallowed.
(40:59):
Then Charlie Brown says, if it's all the same with you, I'd rather not renew my prescription.
Michael (41:05):
Boy, is Shermie a wimp.
Liz (41:09):
He's a cipher.
Michael (41:10):
He's just got nothing, no good personality, truly.
Harold (41:17):
I just see him as the Charles Schulz stand-in here because of the crew cut and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, this is Schulz stepping into the strip through his cipher, Shermie, to give him a little bit of solace.
Michael (41:31):
Yeah.
I don't think Shermie was at home plate because if he was, then he was robbed of an opportunity to be the hero.
Right.
So that narrows it down to Snoopy or Pigpin.
Harold (41:43):
I'm not sure if he really is that philosophical, right?
It's like he's the guy who could give him the solace because he was the one who lost the most.
Jimmy (41:50):
Yeah, that could be it too.
The other way it could be is that he wasn't there at all and Charlie Brown is telling him what happened.
Harold (41:56):
Right.
Jimmy (41:57):
You know?
Liz (41:58):
What about that Charlie Brown kicking the can?
Jimmy (42:01):
Oh, that's a great picture of him kicking the can.
Michael (42:04):
When have we seen his teeth before?
That's really weird.
Harold (42:09):
That whole Charlie Brown goes to the dentist sequence we remember.
Jimmy (42:14):
He was in the mood for cans because I like the trash can too.
Michael (42:18):
Oh, yeah.
Harold (42:19):
Yeah.
Jimmy (42:20):
Well, I really like the picture of Charlie Brown kicking the can.
Just so you can feel the swing of his leg even.
Harold (42:27):
Yeah, he's got this little double line for the swing and then the can is way far away.
Jimmy (42:32):
Yeah.
Harold (42:32):
And the little motion lines.
Again, he just knows what he's doing.
And it's floating in this white space.
Jimmy (42:39):
Yeah.
Harold (42:40):
Above the grass.
Yeah, it's great.
Jimmy (42:43):
May 27th, Charlie Brown is writing a letter and Lucy's watching him.
And Charlie Brown writes, Dear teammates, he continues, I've been thinking of resigning my job as your manager and I, and Lucy says, we accept.
And then Charlie Brown yells, wait till I finish the letter.
Harold (43:07):
I love the look of Lucy there, this glib.
We accept.
Jimmy (43:11):
Oh, she looked so happy, we accept.
Harold (43:14):
And strangely surprised that Charlie Brown has anguish.
But I will say, it's some of the best penmanship I've seen Charlie Brown do in them.
Liz (43:25):
That's true.
Jimmy (43:26):
Is it a pen or a pencil?
Can we see?
Harold (43:28):
Yeah, maybe it's a early magic marker or something, who knows?
Jimmy (43:32):
He was really feeling the big lettering throughout this sequence.
Lots of opportunities to do that.
It always looks good.
Then San Francisco Giants?
Michael (43:46):
That's mine.
Jimmy (43:47):
No?
Oh, that's Michael's.
Well, you could double up with Michael.
Michael (43:50):
No, I don't want to share.
Jimmy (43:52):
All right.
You don't get the, so you're sticking with, who are we?
The Phillies.
All right.
As of now, it's the Phillies.
Michael (43:58):
Well, what's the closest team is like the Yankees or the Mets?
Jimmy (44:02):
Yeah, but we're ignoring that.
May 28th, Charlie Brown's hanging out on Schroeder's piano just like Lucy.
Then Schroeder says, Charlie Brown, let me give you a little advice.
As long as you think only of yourself, you'll never find happiness.
You've got to start thinking about others.
(44:22):
Then Charlie Brown says, others?
What others?
Who in the world am I supposed to think about?
To which Schroeder replies, Beethoven.
Charlie Brown says, oh, good grief.
Michael (44:34):
Now, this isn't necessarily part of the same sequence, except he's still angry at the world.
Jimmy (44:39):
Yeah.
Harold (44:40):
Yeah.
That's just another Charlie Brown we've been seeing recently in the later strips.
He's got a lot of attitude.
Liz (44:49):
And a lot of flexibility in his back.
Harold (44:54):
Yes.
I'm going to check on the anger happiness index and to see what's going on.
Jimmy (45:03):
Well, you're doing that.
Schroeder, it does make a good point.
You know, I mean, it's one of the things about depression.
It's very narcissistic.
I'm not saying that as a critique of people who get depressed, because I do, but yeah, I mean, you can't see beyond yourself.
It's also kind of Charlie Brown's problem as a manager.
(45:23):
He couldn't, he didn't give, like Michael said, Shermia, whoever it was, the opportunity to just bat him in.
He doesn't give us the opportunity to pitch because it's all got to be about him.
Harold (45:34):
It's interesting.
Jimmy (45:36):
It's just interesting that it was brought up in the strip.
Like, you know, Schroeder actually says that.
Harold (45:40):
Right, right.
Yeah, there is more going on.
So the last year we did when we recorded this was 1994.
We had 72 anger strips since 116 in this period.
So yeah, there's a little more of that going on.
I think it's the craziest like in the late 50s.
So this is maybe just a little bit of a trailing off of where that peaked in the strip.
Jimmy (46:04):
I wonder if he was, well, I'm sure he was disappointed that the Charlie Brown All Stars thing did not make the splash that the Christmas one did.
Right?
Harold (46:18):
Yeah, maybe so.
Jimmy (46:20):
Especially because baseball was such a part of his persona and personality and the whole vibe of Charlie Brown, that I bet he felt it was gonna be a real natural.
Harold (46:32):
Well, it's interesting when you think about cartoonists back in the day, the amount of feedback that you got might be letters for the most part, right?
And that would be so much after the fact.
Schulz has this extra weird layer with the animation of seeing Nielsen readings come in for versions of his characters.
(46:53):
You know, whether it's a holiday or it's a certain theme that's part of his strip.
He's seen that.
I wonder if that affects him.
Jimmy (47:02):
Oh, I'm sure it has to, even if he says it doesn't, all right?
I mean, being awash in a sea of feedback.
I was just thinking, because we're talking about the 90s, you know, we're reading the 90s in the regular episodes, and I was looking up TV ratings around that period.
And yet, broadcast television was the dominant media in America, and the big shows had tens of millions of viewers.
(47:28):
But, you know, I think the Seinfeld finale was seen by 70 million people.
That's like one-fourth of what Schulz had on a daily basis as a readership, right?
I've seen some estimates that he had around 300 million potential readers anyway.
Harold (47:44):
That is incredible.
Jimmy (47:45):
Insane.
Harold (47:46):
Yeah, yeah.
To have that presence in that many people's lives all around the world is pretty crazy.
Michael (47:54):
I have a feeling that, unlike us, most people who read Peanuts, it was a two-second read, and they never gave it a second thought.
Jimmy (48:07):
Oh, yeah.
Every comic.
Harold (48:09):
Do you think there's a cumulative effect on you given, well, I mean, the merchandise is maybe some sort of indicator of, my gosh, I think people would probably just scan through the funny.
Michael (48:21):
Sure.
Occasionally laugh, but generally not react at all.
Liz (48:26):
But they think, yeah, Peanuts, that's one of my favorite.
Michael (48:29):
Yeah.
Me and my friends talked about that day's peanuts every day.
Harold (48:33):
Wow.
Michael (48:33):
That was a topic of discussion.
But I think in general, reading the dailies especially, it's just a couple of minutes, and then you go on, you don't think about them again.
Harold (48:46):
Yeah, that's true.
It's true.
But yeah, to so many people, so many exposures is pretty crazy.
And maybe that's why we lost Shermie, because they put out a Shermie soap dish, and it was just not a good seller.
Jimmy (49:06):
No one wanted it.
Use Shermie to get rid of your Jeremy.
That's a freebie for you there, Peanuts Worldwide.
Liz (49:19):
It might be time to wrap things up, if that's where we're going.
Jimmy (49:22):
All right.
So do we have an official team for you, Harold?
Are you sticking with the Phillies?
Harold (49:28):
I think I'll stick with none of the above.
That's fine.
But thank you for giving me a chance to live the dream.
Jimmy (49:34):
All right.
Well, then how about this?
Your favorite player, Roy Hobbs.
Harold (49:41):
Roy Hobbs.
Jimmy (49:44):
All right, guys, anything else you want to say before we wrap up this baseball?
Michael (49:48):
I think this is one of the great sequences, if not the best sequence in Peanuts.
Jimmy (49:54):
Yeah, you like it that much.
Harold (49:55):
I think it's great.
Yeah, I do too.
Jimmy (49:57):
Okay.
Well, with all that said, let's get ready for next week's episode.
For Michael, Harold and Liz, this is Jimmy saying, be of good cheer.
Harold (50:06):
Yes.
Michael (50:07):
Be of good cheer.
Liz (50:09):
And play ball.
Unpacking Peanuts is copyrighted by Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner.
Produced and edited by Liz Sumner.
Music by Michael Cohen.
Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads.
(50:29):
Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube.
For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Have a wonderful day, and thanks for listening.
Welcome to Unpacking Peanuts, the podcast where three cartoonists take an in-depth look at the greatest comic strip of all time, Peanuts by Charles M.
Schulz.
Jimmy (00:24):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the show.
It's that time of year again.
We're born again.
There's new grass on the field.
It's baseball time.
And guess what?
I'll be your umpire for this game.
My name's Jimmy Gownley.
I am also a cartoonist.
I did things like Seven Good Reasons Not To Grow Up, The Dumbest Idea Ever, and Amelia Rules.
(00:45):
And as a baseball player, I struck out 27 times in a row.
Joining me as always are my pals, co-hosts and fellow cartoonists.
He's a playwright and a composer, both for the band Complicated People, as well as for this very podcast.
He's the co-creator of the original comic book Price Guide, the original editor for Amelia Rules, and the creator of such great strips as Strange Attractors, A Gathering of Spells, Entangled River.
(01:09):
It's Michael Cohen.
Michael (01:10):
Say hey.
Jimmy (01:11):
And he's executive producer and writer of Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie Comics and the creator of the Instagram sensation, Sweetest Beasts.
It's Harold Buchholz.
Harold (01:21):
Hello.
Jimmy (01:22):
So guys, are you so excited?
Spring training.
I know you're happy.
The Pirates are two and one.
So once again, I'm deluding myself into thinking they will come in some place other than last.
I'm sure your guys are all very excited about baseball.
Michael (01:36):
Why did you pick the Pirates over the Phillies?
Because you are closer to the Phillies.
Jimmy (01:41):
I believe, I have no idea.
Well, the reason I picked it was because my dad picked it.
I believe the reason my dad picked the Pirates was because he was one of seven boys.
And all other, the six other ones were all Philly fans.
But yeah, total contrarian.
So I come by it honestly, you know, it's hard to be the son of a contrarian because how do you outcontrary the contrarians?
Harold (02:05):
It's like the counter counterculture.
Jimmy (02:07):
Yes, right.
Michael (02:09):
Well, I did the same.
I picked the rival team of our home team.
Jimmy (02:14):
Yeah, and you lived in the city.
I at least had some wiggle room.
Michael (02:17):
Yeah, right.
Liz (02:19):
I grew up really close to the Phillies, but was a Red Sox fan.
Jimmy (02:23):
Really?
Harold (02:24):
My choice was to make no choice.
Jimmy (02:28):
Here's what we're going to do though.
We're going to find a baseball team that's going to be, we're going to just designate as Harold's official team by the end of this episode.
Harold (02:40):
Some place in Tokyo or something.
Jimmy (02:42):
Well, what about the Cleveland Guardians?
It's Midwest.
They got that new name.
That sounds pretty good.
What do you think about them?
Don't jump on it.
Just try it out for a while, and I'll send out another name a little bit.
Michael (02:56):
We're all rooting for Montreal.
Jimmy (02:58):
We're all rooting for Montreal?
Michael (03:00):
Well, yeah, Canadians.
Go Canadians.
Jimmy (03:02):
Well, there's no Montreal team for about 30 years.
Michael (03:05):
Is that right?
What happened?
Why didn't they tell me?
Jimmy (03:09):
They moved to Washington.
Harold (03:10):
Time marches on.
Michael (03:11):
So Toronto.
Harold (03:13):
Yeah, now they're the Washington Canadians.
Jimmy (03:15):
The Washington, oh, it's the, actually that would be my dad's favorite team.
If they were so Washington Canadians, that would have been absolutely.
Liz (03:23):
I don't get it.
Jimmy (03:25):
Well, this national capital, but they're named the Canadians.
It's contrarian.
All right, so we'll start, we'll just try on Cleveland Guardians and we'll see how it goes.
Harold (03:37):
Sounds very marvelous.
Jimmy (03:39):
Yeah, it used to be the Cleveland Indians.
Harold (03:40):
They're trying to cash in without getting in trouble.
Jimmy (03:43):
Yeah.
I didn't even think about that.
I wonder if that did.
Do you think that played into it?
Harold (03:49):
I mean, I think Disney's lawyers are working on the cease and desist right now.
Jimmy (03:54):
Well, they have one ready to go for everyone in America.
Harold (04:00):
They have to keep busy, you know, idle hands and all.
Jimmy (04:06):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So since it is good old baseball season starting up here, I thought we would take a moment from our regular schedule and just go back and look at a classic strip from 1960, a classic sequence of strips.
They were adapted into the special Charlie Brown's All Stars, which is the second animated special.
Harold (04:34):
Yeah, which I've never seen.
Jimmy (04:35):
Oh, really?
Harold (04:36):
And Michael I know hasn't either.
Jimmy (04:38):
Oh, yeah.
So I'm the only one that's seen it.
I've seen it like twice because about, I mean, it's never shown, but about 20 years ago now, they put out DVDs like Peanuts in the 60s, Peanuts in the 70s for the specials and it had all of them.
And I got the 60s one of course.
And yeah, it was on there.
It's okay.
(04:58):
I mean, there's a reason it's not shown like all the others, but it's okay.
Harold (05:02):
Interesting.
Yeah.
What's the reason?
Just not very good?
Jimmy (05:06):
It doesn't have, yeah.
Well, I mean, it doesn't have the universal appeal of like the Christmas one or the Halloween one, I think.
Harold (05:13):
I guess they went by ratings, if people were watching it, they'd bring it back every time.
Jimmy (05:18):
Yeah, there's no like, when do you play it?
Are you going to play it at the World Series?
Are you going to play it in the spring?
Or is it just throughout summer?
You know, I think, and also, I'm not sure.
Charlie, the plot is Charlie Brown is getting new uniforms from a sponsor for this team, but, or some reason they're getting a sponsor, and the sponsor won't sponsor the team unless he gets rid of the girls and Snoopy, the dog.
Harold (05:44):
Oh, wow.
Jimmy (05:44):
And Charlie Brown stands up for whatever and sticks with his team.
So that's what Charlie Brown's All Stars is about.
But I knew these from the book, Slide Charlie Brown Slide, which was a gift in fifth grade from my teacher, Ms.
Klinger.
So Ms.
Klinger, this one is a, Suzy Klinger.
If you're out there, this one's dedicated to you.
(06:06):
If you characters out there want to follow along, well, a couple of things you should do.
The first thing you should do is go over to our website, unpackingpeanuts.com and sign up for the great Peanuts re-read and that'll get you one email a month that tells you what we're doing.
Maybe not everything we're doing, but most of the things that we're doing.
We have to have some privacy for God's sake.
Harold (06:28):
We're not going to show you what we had for dinner at the local restaurant.
Jimmy (06:32):
No, unless it's really good and or peanuts related, I guess.
Harold (06:36):
Well, yeah.
Jimmy (06:36):
While you're over there, check out the website.
Liz has done a great job maintaining it and putting all kinds of good stuff in the old Peanuts Obscurities page.
But anyway, once you do that, you can follow along with us.
If you wanted to follow along with this one right now, just go over to May of 1960 on gocomics.com and you'll be able to see all of these strips I'm talking about and read along with us.
(07:01):
With all that preamble out of the way, how about we get right to it?
Sure.
Michael (07:05):
Got it.
Jimmy (07:06):
May 16th, 1960, it's the middle of a baseball game.
Lucy and Patty are sitting on the bench and Lucy has her eyes covered.
She says, I can't look.
Patty says, the score is three to two in the last of the ninth.
And Lucy, looking very upset, says, but we have two outs.
Patty says, but Charlie Brown is on third and our best hitter is coming up.
(07:29):
Lucy is still looking very nervous and says, say, you don't think Charlie Brown will try to steal home, do you?
And Patty says, never, not even Charlie Brown would do anything that stupid.
And in the last panel, we see Charlie Brown standing on third thinking, I wonder if I should try to steal home.
Michael (07:49):
Classic.
I mean, he poses the question at the end, but there's two other big questions that come up in the strip.
We do not find out who is their best hitter.
Who's coming up?
Jimmy (08:02):
Oh yeah, it's got to be Snoopy, right?
Michael (08:04):
It's got to be Snoopy.
It's got to be Snoopy, because the other characters appear, rooting on the sidelines.
Jimmy (08:12):
Wow, that's some good detective work.
Yeah, it's got to be Snoopy, I guess, because who else?
Yeah, interesting.
Michael (08:17):
Then the other big question, of course, is, how did he get on third?
Jimmy (08:23):
I assume he was hit by a pitch.
Michael (08:26):
Wild pitch.
Jimmy (08:27):
Yeah, wild pitch.
I don't know, maybe a balk or something like that.
Yeah.
Now, going to Charlie Brown's being a terrible manager, he's not thinking that on third base.
He's saying it out loud.
So that's probably the first thing he did wrong.
(08:49):
Because there's a third baseman, supposedly, right?
Standing right next to him.
Harold (08:54):
It's interesting.
Jimmy (08:55):
What do you think of, see, having gone through, how many decades, three decades since this strip, what do you think now with the whiplash of looking back at this earlier style?
Harold (09:08):
Expressions.
He sells his expressions much more broadly in 1960 than he does in 1994, which we looked at last.
It's really interesting to see how subtle he has gotten with his characters.
Michael (09:28):
The lines seem a lot thicker.
Harold (09:31):
Yeah.
Michael (09:32):
We're confident, but also notice the balloon arrows are nice and pointy.
Jimmy (09:38):
Oh, yeah.
Harold (09:39):
Yeah, he's only got one incomplete one there.
Jimmy (09:42):
Yeah, third panel.
Harold (09:43):
The third panel, yeah.
It looks very old school, traditional, pointy, especially for the fourth panel with Charlie Brown, saying what he should not say out loud.
This is something I haven't really noticed a whole lot.
How often do we see the human characters thinking with the thought balloon that we always see with Snoopy?
(10:07):
Does Schulz avoid that?
I'm trying to remember.
It's not striking me one way or the other.
Does it happen often?
Or does he make a rule for himself that Snoopy owns that?
Jimmy (10:18):
I don't think so.
Michael (10:18):
Yeah, it never occurred to me to check.
Jimmy (10:22):
Yeah, I don't really know.
I mean, there are lots of times when Charlie Brown is all by himself and he is talking and not thinking.
Well, like the rest of the sequence.
Michael (10:30):
Well, when he's sitting on the bench at school eating his peanut butter sandwich, thinking about the little redhead girl.
Is he saying that out loud?
Jimmy (10:39):
I think he's saying that out loud.
Harold (10:40):
He's saying it out loud.
Well, it's also interesting that often the model for a cartoonist is if you're speaking and you have a word balloon, you show the mouth open.
Schulz does not do that when it looks like he should be thinking and shouldn't be saying anything, but he still gets that balloon.
Maybe that is a Snoopy thing.
He's trying to delineate Snoopy more and so he doesn't give himself the flexibility with the kids.
Jimmy (11:05):
Yeah, that might be it.
Or maybe there's just some internal thing he just thinks it's funnier.
I don't know.
May 17th, this continues, Charlie Brown is still there on third and he's saying, this is my big chance to be a hero.
And now he just edges a little bit as if he's going to take a big lead off third and says, if I could steal home, the game would be all tied up and I'd be the hero.
(11:32):
And then in panel three, he does a little movement with his elbows as if he's going to take off for home.
And then in the last panel, he says, I haven't caught the nerve.
Michael (11:43):
Boy, I know that feeling.
Jimmy (11:46):
But this is the right instinct to not do it because this is a terrible idea.
Liz (11:52):
Did you ever steal, Michael?
Michael (11:54):
Oh, no, nobody's still.
Jimmy (11:57):
Yeah, I don't in Little League.
Michael (11:58):
We played on basically on concrete.
Not too much sliding happening.
Liz (12:04):
Yeah.
Jimmy (12:05):
I think when I played Little League, you weren't allowed to take leads and you could steal on a pass ball, but you didn't steal just on a regular play.
But never in, I mean, there's probably been less than 100 successful stealings of home plate in baseball history.
I mean, it's next to impossible.
Michael (12:26):
And you can find out exactly how many there are.
Well, it seems to me like baseball has statistics for everything.
Jimmy (12:36):
Oh, that is true.
Yes.
I thought you had it at your fingertips.
Michael (12:40):
No, no, no.
It would be easy to find.
Jimmy (12:45):
Yes, it would be.
It would be.
Baseball is a mathematician's game, I think.
Not that I'm good at math, but yeah.
That's another reason you should like it, Harold.
Harold (12:57):
Whoa.
Yeah, I'm just looking up trying to see.
Of course you.
Oh, it says, wow.
But you're not kidding.
This is 2023.
It says, in the last 50 years, 3,228 base runners have tried.
Any guess how many made it?
Jimmy (13:15):
How many?
Liz (13:16):
220.
Harold (13:17):
864.
Jimmy (13:19):
How many?
Harold (13:20):
864.
So just over a quarter of them actually made it.
Jimmy (13:23):
That's impressive.
Harold (13:24):
Yeah, right.
Jimmy (13:25):
But you, I mean, you was never tried.
You was certainly never tried it with two outs in the last inning and you're down one.
That would be insane.
Harold (13:34):
Right.
So it said that, but it was only, well, this is weird.
And it says 3,228, but it said it happened 10 times in the 2023 season successfully, I guess.
Interesting.
Jimmy (13:47):
Oh, I'm wondering.
Harold (13:47):
This was them.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Jimmy (13:50):
How about the St.
Louis Cardinals?
How does that feel, Harold?
Harold (13:55):
Well, I'll be back.
I did.
Liz (13:57):
It is Missouri.
Harold (13:58):
I did live in St.
Louis for a while, so there's something there.
But guess how many times Babe Ruth stole home?
You see, she's not the kind of guy you think would be burning down the-
Jimmy (14:11):
No, how many?
Michael (14:12):
Well, he doesn't look like a pitcher either.
Jimmy (14:14):
Well, that's true too.
Or an athlete of any kind.
Harold (14:20):
It says Ruth did it 10 times in this career.
Of course, it could have been the first year.
Jimmy (14:24):
Yeah.
Harold (14:25):
You know, I don't know.
Jimmy (14:26):
Wow, that's amazing.
All right, so that's all Charlie Brown's trying to do, pull a Babe Ruth.
And that continues on May 18th.
So here Charlie Brown goes, he's wiggling his elbows, he's standing on the side of the old bag, and he says, I'm going to steal home and I'm going to be a hero.
Get ready now.
Here I go.
(14:47):
Don't be a coward.
Here I go.
Don't be scared.
Here I go.
Zoom.
Here I go.
Don't be a coward.
Here I go.
Don't be scared.
Here I stay.
Harold (14:58):
I like how his hat kind of flattens out on top of his head in the last panel, like it's deflated.
Jimmy (15:05):
It's amazing and it's actually, it did it a little bit in the one above, but it does it even more this time as he gets a little more embarrassed by himself or something like that.
Harold (15:17):
It's great.
Liz (15:18):
And Harold, you didn't mention his tongue in the first panel.
Harold (15:22):
Oh, yeah, the thinking tongue, you know, when you stick it up in the corner of your mouth.
We all know that from Peanuts, especially when somebody is drawing or writing on a piece of paper.
That's what you do, right?
Jimmy (15:33):
That's absolutely what you do.
You know, it's amazing that this strip does have international legs and people, because baseball is a pretty big part of it.
And, you know, baseball is so American.
Even though-
Michael (15:50):
I've got to go look.
I actually do have a reprint book in Italian from the 70s.
And I got to look to see if there are baseball strips in there.
They might just not bother.
Harold (16:03):
Right.
Jimmy (16:04):
Oh, yeah, maybe not, right?
It would be interesting.
It would definitely be interesting to see.
The thing that I thought that was interesting about this was I was kind of comparing this in my mind while I was reading it to the I Hit a Home Run sequence that we read not too long ago.
(16:29):
And if the Home Run thing had happened back here in the early 60s, it would have been a stretched out drama before the Home Run.
And then in the 90s, he just cuts to, hey, guess what, you don't even see it.
He just comes home and says, I hit a Home Run today.
Part of me is that just age and I just want to get to the good part?
(16:54):
Or do you know what I mean?
I think he really would have in the height of the world's obsession with Peanuts as a daily strip, I think he would have taken the opportunity to milk the drama of Charlie Brown's Home Run a lot more.
Harold (17:09):
Well, it's interesting to me looking at these all these years earlier, now that we're in the 90s, and think who Schulz is as a person.
It seems like in 1960, he was, I don't know, more balled up, and there's things that he didn't do.
(17:32):
And it seems like as life went on, that kind of opened up for him, this, I have a sense of Schulz having worked through some of the things that he was afraid to do as when he was younger, that he's now able to do.
And so maybe I really feel this, this like, I really want to do something, but I just, I just can't bring myself to do it.
(17:54):
The baby isn't so much who he is later in his life.
Jimmy (18:00):
Like, in what sense, I could bring it, like, bring myself to do something in what sense?
Harold (18:07):
Well, number one, he's 35 years into massive success and sustained, and he's the elder statesman of comics.
He's got it behind him.
And I'm sure everybody has regrets of things that they love to have done, but didn't do.
I don't know, it just seems like he, even though he didn't travel as much later in life.
Jimmy (18:27):
Oh, I see what you're saying, yes.
Harold (18:28):
I just get this sense of somebody who has lived a very full life, and the idea that I've missed an opportunity here and there, isn't so much a part of who he is.
And when you are processing or living something, and then you're putting it in the strip as Schulz did all 50 years, this is him saying to me in 1960, I've got lots of situations where I would have done something, but I didn't dare, more so than in 1994.
Jimmy (19:00):
That's interesting.
Liz (19:01):
But isn't that true of all of us who have grown over time?
Harold (19:07):
I think some people really have regrets later in life, and they can become angry or depressed because they could have done something, and they didn't.
And then there are other people who are the late bloomers.
To me, Schulz kind of feels like a late bloomer.
I mean, that man about town, kind of, Schulz that begins in the 70s, and that he looks very suave in the photos.
(19:38):
When I see him in the 60s, because this is before even they did that documentary on him, he just seems a little more uptight, which is kind of maybe where the culture was in general anyway.
I don't know.
It just seems like, yeah, I would hope for most people as life has gone on, they've taken more chances and they have more things behind them, there's more confidence.
Jimmy (20:00):
Well, and it's interesting, and one of the great things he is able to do as our cartoonist is to take that thing that Liz says we all experience and turn it into this very specific experience with Charlie Brown, but that it has applications for people who aren't interested in, like people who aren't huge St.
Louis Cardinals fans.
(20:22):
How's that feel?
Does this feel right?
Harold (20:25):
It just feels odd.
Jimmy (20:27):
Okay, we're working on it.
We'll get you something else.
I'll see what I have in the back.
Harold (20:32):
Thank you.
Yeah.
Do you have anything in green?
Oh, you're sure the A's.
All right.
There we go.
A's, I like that.
Jimmy (20:40):
They have that movie Moneyball.
Harold (20:41):
My blood type is A plus.
Jimmy (20:44):
Okay, you got your A positive and you watched Moneyball and liked it.
Harold (20:47):
Yeah, Moneyball.
Jimmy (20:49):
And that's the A's.
That's two things.
All right.
Liz (20:52):
Closing in.
Jimmy (20:54):
I played on the A's Little League team.
Harold (20:57):
What does that mean?
You're allowed to name and no cease and desist from them, huh?
Disney did not own Little League.
Jimmy (21:05):
I don't know that you can copyright A.
We just had an A on a hat.
Well, I would go.
So let's take a little break right now.
We'll get some water and a snack and we'll come back on the other side.
Michael (21:45):
All right, let's get back to it.
The suspense is unbearable.
Jimmy (21:50):
May 19th, Charlie Brown's hanging out there on third.
I gotta try it.
If I'm gonna be a hero, I gotta try to steal home.
First, I'll dance around a little on the baseline to confuse their pitcher.
And he does this.
It's a great try.
And then I'll, he says, well, he looks very surreptitiously over towards the pitcher.
Liz (22:13):
Take off.
Jimmy (22:14):
And he does just that.
He takes off for home.
That's a great cliffhanger for a comic strip, I think.
That's really good.
Harold (22:23):
And that last panel, my gosh, that's amazing last panel.
The art is incredible.
The speed lines are fantastic.
I love that they blur out the bottom of the hat.
And he doesn't finish the lines under the shoe, the back of the head, and the bottom of his mouth.
(22:44):
There's just a lot of really cool...
Oh, and you get the sense that the black of his pants is part of the streaking past.
It's a little bit darker past the back of the pants as well.
It's like we're seeing that in the past.
There's so many cool things here.
Jimmy (23:01):
Maybe Charlie Brown got a little scared, and that's what's causing it.
Harold (23:05):
No, no, Jimmy.
Oh, no.
Jimmy (23:13):
How about the Seattle Mariners?
Harold (23:15):
The Mariners.
Mariners, that sounds like Marinara.
I don't know.
We'll have to keep working on that.
Jimmy (23:21):
All right, all right.
So we're sticking with the A's for now.
How about panel two?
Harold (23:24):
So I have to ask you, for those of you who've played that panel two, why would you do that?
Like, oh, the pitchers like that don't cause attention to you, right?
And are you fooling them that you might actually go back to second?
Jimmy (23:39):
What is the thinking here?
I think what he's doing is he's taking a little bit of a lead off third, and he's dancing back as if he would go home or dive back to third.
Michael (23:51):
Yeah, I think he wants to picture the throw to third.
Jimmy (23:53):
To third, right.
Michael (23:53):
Because if it's a bad throw, then you're home.
Jimmy (23:56):
Right, exactly.
Harold (23:58):
Okay.
Well, thank you.
Thank you for someone who's baseball illiterate.
Jimmy (24:02):
Yeah.
The other thing about this is saying it's a bad idea, but then you say, well, Babe Ruth did it 10 times in his career.
It's only a bad idea because Charlie Brown, we know what's going to happen with Charlie Brown.
Doing bad, making bad decisions that pan out, I guess is what makes an athletic hero.
(24:24):
You do try the things that other people are not going to try.
When you succeed, like Larry Bird, my favorite basketball player once went out in the court and said, yeah, I'm going to beat it today, but I'm just going to be lefty.
Now, and he played the entire game lefty and he scored four points.
Harold (24:40):
No.
Jimmy (24:41):
Oh, yeah.
Harold (24:42):
What?
Jimmy (24:42):
Yes, it's insane.
Harold (24:44):
I don't know.
Larry Bird never stole home.
Jimmy (24:47):
No, Larry Bird never stole home.
But if someone else tried that and they just failed, it would be, why was that idiot playing with his left hand?
Harold (24:56):
He'd be sewing shoes the next day.
Jimmy (24:59):
Exactly.
May 20th.
Now, the gang is all watching this debacle occur.
It's the whole crew, Schroeder, Lucy, Patty, Violent and Linus and they yell, Charlie Brown is trying to steal home.
Then they yell, slide, Charlie Brown, slide.
(25:21):
And then the third panel, we just see a poof plume of dust.
And then the last panel is Charlie Brown just lying on his back in the base path with the rest of the team around him looking annoyed.
And Lucy says, oh, you blockhead.
Michael (25:39):
So I think we can narrow down who the batter was.
Well, it could be Snoopy, it could be Shermie, it could be Pigpan, I think.
Jimmy (25:48):
Oh yeah.
Michael (25:49):
So one of those three is the best hitter.
Jimmy (25:52):
Well, it could be Shermie too, I guess.
Michael (25:55):
Yeah, I included him.
But that would have been in his Shermometer if he was that good.
Harold (26:05):
Well, maybe anonymous is another word we should use to describe Shermie, if he's like-
Liz (26:09):
Shernonimous.
Jimmy (26:11):
Oh, wow.
Harold (26:14):
How about that?
Jimmy (26:14):
Anytime something happens in the remainder of the strip where we can't figure out exactly who it is, it happens Shernonimously.
It was Sherm-
Harold (26:23):
Yeah, maybe Shermie has been in the strip all along.
Jimmy (26:27):
Right.
Michael (26:28):
In disguise.
Liz (26:29):
Maybe he was that person we thought was Patty.
Jimmy (26:35):
This is another great-looking comic strip.
There's something about seeing all of the characters or as many of the characters as you can get together in one panel that I just find so satisfying.
Harold (26:48):
Yeah.
We got 16 characters in three panels here.
Jimmy (26:53):
That's a long day's work, dude, and it just looks so good.
I mean, that second one where they all are leaning, like why he decided to make them all lean the same direction.
But it works, right?
Like they're like, it has something to do with like them sliding too.
I can't describe why that works.
But if I drew that, they would all be in different poses and different positions, right?
(27:18):
But he does them all doing the same thing and it looks so good.
Harold (27:22):
Well, it's interesting.
And why are they looking that angle?
Because they're looking to our left.
Michael (27:28):
Well, if you assume the bench is near third base, they'd be leaning towards home.
Harold (27:36):
So he's past.
Michael (27:37):
Yeah.
Harold (27:38):
Yeah.
And then they have to walk all the way out to meet him and stand around him and glare at him.
Boy, I've never seen the Linus look so miffed.
Jimmy (27:49):
He really looks annoyed.
Harold (27:51):
That is, boy, you don't want to mess with Linus when he's-
Jimmy (27:55):
He looks more annoyed than even Violet.
Harold (27:59):
Yeah.
She's angry, but yeah, that's pretty rough.
But yeah, the drawing here is beautiful.
I love the black of the open mouths of them screaming with the really dark lettering.
Jimmy (28:16):
Oh, I did too.
Harold (28:17):
It's just great.
Jimmy (28:18):
Really good.
Harold (28:20):
I love how wild the lettering is in the first panel, where somebody or all of them was yelling, Charlie Brown is trying to steal home.
It's, you know, he's doing that really fast.
Jimmy (28:33):
Yeah.
Harold (28:33):
And it's really fun lettering.
It reminds me of a lot of the lettering you've done, Jimmy, where you're just kind of messing with display font to make it just represent what's actually happening, the feel of it.
Jimmy (28:48):
Yeah.
And it's such a fun thing to do because you like drawing, but yeah, it's like putting a motion into letters.
Yeah.
Harold (28:56):
You know, I love that.
I mean, that is that's that's part of the joy of cartooning is that you could do that.
Jimmy (29:04):
Yeah.
How do you think he does like the slide Charlie Brown slide lettering or the take off lettering?
Do you think he uses the regular bold that he uses for things like OU Blockhead in the last panel and like doubles it up?
Does it like a sketchy motion?
Do you think he draws it like an outline and then fills it in?
Harold (29:26):
I think he's doubling or tripling.
Jimmy (29:28):
Yeah, I think he might be doubling too.
Oh, you know what he is because you can see if you look at slide Charlie Brown slide and you look at just the E, you can sort of see it off the edges of the E.
Harold (29:38):
Yeah, which gives it kind of that EC horror kind of look, but they have sharp, crazy edges.
Yeah.
And that they're all crammed together.
The letters are, there's no space in between any of the letters.
It's just one big word that they're yelling in unison.
Jimmy (29:58):
How about the Phillies?
You lived outside of Philly for a while there and they're a good team.
Harold (30:03):
I like a good cheesesteak.
Jimmy (30:05):
Phillies.
Okay, so now we're leading Harold Buchholz's lifelong Phillies devotee.
Harold (30:11):
Yeah, I went to a Rochester Red Wings game when I was a kid.
Oh, that's good.
Going for the minor leagues.
Jimmy (30:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, yeah.
I was trying to think in New York, but you only got your Yankees and Mets and we don't want to go there.
May 21st, everyone's upset.
Wow, we lost the game all because of Charlie Brown.
And Charlie Brown still lying on the base path says, wasn't I out?
And Lucy says, out?
(30:38):
Were you blockhead?
You didn't even get halfway home.
Charlie Brown then just lies there in the base path alone.
And then it slowly turns to dark.
And in the last panel, he's lying out there alone at night and he says, rats.
Michael (30:55):
That makes the joke.
I mean, it's great.
If that was daylight, it wouldn't be half as funny.
Harold (31:01):
No.
How do you like him lying with his hand?
Jimmy (31:07):
The most uncomfortable thing.
Harold (31:09):
Holding himself up so the middle of him, it's just the back of his head and the base of his shoes.
Everything else is kind of floating over.
It shows how tense Charlie Brown must be.
And his little arm is like literally horizontal to the ground.
Jimmy (31:26):
That last panel reminds me of Crazy Cat with all the scratching.
Harold (31:30):
Yeah.
Jimmy (31:31):
Or maybe it's just because it goes from day to night in a panel too.
That's what I'm thinking.
But there's something about that scratchiness underneath the black.
Then we skip May 22nd because that's a Sunday.
And then we're back May 23rd.
Charlie Brown's still lying there.
It's still dark at night.
And he's saying to himself, why did I have to go and try to steal home?
(31:53):
Why?
Why?
And in the next panel outside his house is Linus.
And he senses or hears something.
And then in the third panel, he explores to see what it is.
And we see it's Charlie Brown lying there going, why?
Michael (32:06):
Why?
Why?
Harold (32:07):
Why?
Jimmy (32:08):
And then Linus just walks away saying, I thought I heard a cry of anguish.
Why?
Michael (32:13):
Why?
Jimmy (32:14):
Why?
Why?
Why?
Says Charlie Brown.
So here's a question, why?
Why do you think Charlie Brown did this?
Harold (32:26):
He's a hero, right?
Jimmy (32:29):
And do you think some of his failures or I guess maybe most of his failures are because he wants to not just be good at what he's doing, he wants to be a hero?
Michael (32:40):
But where does he ever try to be a hero?
I mean, not flying a kite, nobody's even watching.
Liz (32:46):
I think he wanted to not be a coward.
He wanted to overcome his fear.
Michael (32:54):
I think it's Lucy's fault.
He goes counseling him that he has to take chances and be more aggressive.
Harold (33:04):
Plus, all of them were telling him to slide before he even got halfway to the...
Jimmy (33:09):
That's true.
That could be on them that he didn't make it.
Harold (33:13):
Maybe, you know.
He choked because of his friends.
Let's try to listen to them.
Liz (33:17):
He could have just kept running.
Harold (33:19):
I mean, this is classic Peanuts in 1960.
The disconnect between the characters.
I think maybe that's also something that has been bridged a little bit as the years go on.
That Linus, who's pretty sensitive about these some things, he comes out to check on Charlie Brown.
(33:41):
Well, he's just curious whether he heard a cry of anguish.
He's not going to say anything to Charlie Brown.
He's not going to try to console him in this strip.
He just wanted to check if he was hearing a cry of anguish.
Then he heads back home.
Right.
Jimmy (33:55):
That is really funny.
Be of good cheer.
Yes, be of good cheer.
Then he leaves him there.
May 24th, Charlie Brown is still lying out there, still night and he's talking to himself, why didn't I just wait on third base?
Why did I have to try to steal home?
Why, why, why, why?
(34:16):
Linus comes back, Charlie Brown.
Then he says to Charlie Brown, I've been asked to tell you that your cries of anguish are keeping the whole neighborhood awake.
In the last panel, Charlie Brown remains there.
He just says to himself, why, why, why, why?
How tiny those whys must have been in the newspaper that day.
Harold (34:41):
I love the formality of Linus.
He runs out there and it's not I've been asked to tell you, it's I have been asked to tell you that your cries of anguish are keeping the whole neighborhood awake.
Jimmy (34:52):
Asked by who?
Harold (34:54):
Is he like going door to door saying he is the, yeah, he's the, I don't know if that's the correct term for, you know, he's looking after the rights and wrongs of the neighborhood, I guess, maybe.
But yeah, he is, he's been sent by the neighborhood.
Liz (35:12):
And he's running.
Harold (35:14):
Right.
Jimmy (35:17):
Well, people need to get to sleep.
It's an early day tomorrow.
May 25th, Charlie Brown is still lying there.
Now Lucy has come out and he says to her, if I had stolen home, I'd have been the hero instead I'm the goat.
And Lucy says, don't think of yourself as being the goat, Charlie Brown.
If you forget about it, everyone else will too.
(35:40):
Then Charlie Brown says, do you really think so Lucy?
And Lucy says, I'm positive.
And then the last panel, she says, good night, goat.
Harold (35:48):
As thousands of millennials scratch their heads.
Michael (35:51):
Yeah.
When did that happen?
Because that confused the hell out of me.
All of a sudden, goat meant good?
Jimmy (35:57):
Yeah, it's weird.
I don't know.
I don't know.
The first time I heard of it this way was in Infinite Jess, P-Goat, prettiest girl of all time.
But I don't think it started there.
I bet it started long before then, but I don't know.
In case anyone out there doesn't know what we're talking about, but yeah, goat now stands for greatest of all time.
Liz (36:20):
But it didn't always.
Jimmy (36:21):
No, it meant you were a buffoon.
Harold (36:25):
Basically, we're saying that the march of time has made Charlie Brown the greatest of all time.
Jimmy (36:34):
Absolutely.
Now he'd want...
This is genius cartooning.
Charlie Brown in panel two, okay?
Lucy says something that possibly could cheer him up a little bit.
Look at him in panel three.
You know what I mean?
His spine straightens up, so he's like, really?
(36:56):
He has a reaction, even though he's not moving at all, except just the slightest little bit.
Harold (37:01):
And he arches his back so that he can tilt his head toward Lucy who's standing behind him.
Jimmy (37:05):
Yeah.
Harold (37:06):
That's fantastic.
Jimmy (37:07):
Isn't that fantastic?
And then he's deflated, of course, by Lucy's punch line, and then he's even more prone than he was previously because he's on the side of his head and he looks more like all of his body is actually touching the ground.
Harold (37:22):
And he's looking at us.
Yeah, like, oh, you know, that kind of Jack Betty stare.
Jimmy (37:28):
Oh, if you zoom in there, that is a complete look of despair on his face.
Harold (37:36):
That's great.
I mean, you're right.
I mean, when you think of what a cartoon is, how a cartoon is processes something and how they try to get it across, he's so in tune with his characters, he's doing an impossible thing with Charlie Brown with that.
But it's so funny.
Jimmy (37:53):
It's so funny.
Harold (37:55):
He has, I mean, how do you get there?
How do you get to the place where you are going to make your character do an impossible physical act because you know it's going to be funny as a cartoon?
Jimmy (38:07):
I don't know.
It has to be supreme confidence because anytime I try to do things, like we talk about this again and again and again and again, and we can recognize it in his work and in other people's work.
But then when you sit down to do something in a similar vein, or maybe not even a similar vein, but to make a bold choice yourself, all the doubt comes in, all the second guessing comes in.
Harold (38:31):
Right.
Shall I steal home?
Should I do it?
Jimmy (38:36):
Whoa, this whole thing is mad.
Harold (38:37):
It is like trying to steal home because it is hard to pull off and it can backfire on you, and you can think it works for you even though it breaks the rules, but you don't know if it's going to work for 90 percent of the rest of the public, unless you just somehow have the supreme sense that it's going to work.
He does it over and over again.
(38:57):
I will say the one thing that I've gotten out of doing this podcast is permission from Charles Schulz to go for it.
There's something that seems a little odd, off model.
You see him doing it over and over again.
Now that I'm talking about it and not just enjoying the strips and reading it through, I'm seeing things and then you guys are bringing things up that I haven't noticed.
(39:26):
It's like, oh my gosh, he's breaking the rules all the time.
They always say you have to know the rules before you break the rules, but he took it to another level because he would take a chance.
Not everything works, but he has an incredibly good track record.
Then once it does work, it's now part of the strip in a way that is unique to him and sets him apart from everybody else.
(39:48):
He amasses one of these after another, after another, after another, until the strip is in a stratosphere where nobody can touch it.
Jimmy (39:55):
Yeah.
Well, this is what makes me think about us talking, comparing peanuts and Calvin and Hobbes, and just comparing things from totally different eras.
Because Watterson was lucky enough to have all of those arrows in his quiver that Schulz invented.
Harold (40:14):
Yeah.
Jimmy (40:15):
Now, I mean, Watterson invented then a bunch of his own too.
Right.
That's what makes the whole field great.
Then we who come along after Watterson get to take, steal his ideas too and put them in our quiver.
But it's amazing to see a master do it.
(40:35):
May 26th.
It's our old pal, Shermie.
Yay.
He and Charlie Brown are walking down the street and he sits and Charlie Brown says, all I wanted to do was be a hero.
But do I ever get to be a hero?
No.
All I ever get to be is the stupid goat.
Then Shermie says to him, don't be discouraged, Charlie Brown.
In this life we live, there are always some bitter pills to be swallowed.
(40:59):
Then Charlie Brown says, if it's all the same with you, I'd rather not renew my prescription.
Michael (41:05):
Boy, is Shermie a wimp.
Liz (41:09):
He's a cipher.
Michael (41:10):
He's just got nothing, no good personality, truly.
Harold (41:17):
I just see him as the Charles Schulz stand-in here because of the crew cut and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, this is Schulz stepping into the strip through his cipher, Shermie, to give him a little bit of solace.
Michael (41:31):
Yeah.
I don't think Shermie was at home plate because if he was, then he was robbed of an opportunity to be the hero.
Right.
So that narrows it down to Snoopy or Pigpin.
Harold (41:43):
I'm not sure if he really is that philosophical, right?
It's like he's the guy who could give him the solace because he was the one who lost the most.
Jimmy (41:50):
Yeah, that could be it too.
The other way it could be is that he wasn't there at all and Charlie Brown is telling him what happened.
Harold (41:56):
Right.
Jimmy (41:57):
You know?
Liz (41:58):
What about that Charlie Brown kicking the can?
Jimmy (42:01):
Oh, that's a great picture of him kicking the can.
Michael (42:04):
When have we seen his teeth before?
That's really weird.
Harold (42:09):
That whole Charlie Brown goes to the dentist sequence we remember.
Jimmy (42:14):
He was in the mood for cans because I like the trash can too.
Michael (42:18):
Oh, yeah.
Harold (42:19):
Yeah.
Jimmy (42:20):
Well, I really like the picture of Charlie Brown kicking the can.
Just so you can feel the swing of his leg even.
Harold (42:27):
Yeah, he's got this little double line for the swing and then the can is way far away.
Jimmy (42:32):
Yeah.
Harold (42:32):
And the little motion lines.
Again, he just knows what he's doing.
And it's floating in this white space.
Jimmy (42:39):
Yeah.
Harold (42:40):
Above the grass.
Yeah, it's great.
Jimmy (42:43):
May 27th, Charlie Brown is writing a letter and Lucy's watching him.
And Charlie Brown writes, Dear teammates, he continues, I've been thinking of resigning my job as your manager and I, and Lucy says, we accept.
And then Charlie Brown yells, wait till I finish the letter.
Harold (43:07):
I love the look of Lucy there, this glib.
We accept.
Jimmy (43:11):
Oh, she looked so happy, we accept.
Harold (43:14):
And strangely surprised that Charlie Brown has anguish.
But I will say, it's some of the best penmanship I've seen Charlie Brown do in them.
Liz (43:25):
That's true.
Jimmy (43:26):
Is it a pen or a pencil?
Can we see?
Harold (43:28):
Yeah, maybe it's a early magic marker or something, who knows?
Jimmy (43:32):
He was really feeling the big lettering throughout this sequence.
Lots of opportunities to do that.
It always looks good.
Then San Francisco Giants?
Michael (43:46):
That's mine.
Jimmy (43:47):
No?
Oh, that's Michael's.
Well, you could double up with Michael.
Michael (43:50):
No, I don't want to share.
Jimmy (43:52):
All right.
You don't get the, so you're sticking with, who are we?
The Phillies.
All right.
As of now, it's the Phillies.
Michael (43:58):
Well, what's the closest team is like the Yankees or the Mets?
Jimmy (44:02):
Yeah, but we're ignoring that.
May 28th, Charlie Brown's hanging out on Schroeder's piano just like Lucy.
Then Schroeder says, Charlie Brown, let me give you a little advice.
As long as you think only of yourself, you'll never find happiness.
You've got to start thinking about others.
(44:22):
Then Charlie Brown says, others?
What others?
Who in the world am I supposed to think about?
To which Schroeder replies, Beethoven.
Charlie Brown says, oh, good grief.
Michael (44:34):
Now, this isn't necessarily part of the same sequence, except he's still angry at the world.
Jimmy (44:39):
Yeah.
Harold (44:40):
Yeah.
That's just another Charlie Brown we've been seeing recently in the later strips.
He's got a lot of attitude.
Liz (44:49):
And a lot of flexibility in his back.
Harold (44:54):
Yes.
I'm going to check on the anger happiness index and to see what's going on.
Jimmy (45:03):
Well, you're doing that.
Schroeder, it does make a good point.
You know, I mean, it's one of the things about depression.
It's very narcissistic.
I'm not saying that as a critique of people who get depressed, because I do, but yeah, I mean, you can't see beyond yourself.
It's also kind of Charlie Brown's problem as a manager.
(45:23):
He couldn't, he didn't give, like Michael said, Shermia, whoever it was, the opportunity to just bat him in.
He doesn't give us the opportunity to pitch because it's all got to be about him.
Harold (45:34):
It's interesting.
Jimmy (45:36):
It's just interesting that it was brought up in the strip.
Like, you know, Schroeder actually says that.
Harold (45:40):
Right, right.
Yeah, there is more going on.
So the last year we did when we recorded this was 1994.
We had 72 anger strips since 116 in this period.
So yeah, there's a little more of that going on.
I think it's the craziest like in the late 50s.
So this is maybe just a little bit of a trailing off of where that peaked in the strip.
Jimmy (46:04):
I wonder if he was, well, I'm sure he was disappointed that the Charlie Brown All Stars thing did not make the splash that the Christmas one did.
Right?
Harold (46:18):
Yeah, maybe so.
Jimmy (46:20):
Especially because baseball was such a part of his persona and personality and the whole vibe of Charlie Brown, that I bet he felt it was gonna be a real natural.
Harold (46:32):
Well, it's interesting when you think about cartoonists back in the day, the amount of feedback that you got might be letters for the most part, right?
And that would be so much after the fact.
Schulz has this extra weird layer with the animation of seeing Nielsen readings come in for versions of his characters.
(46:53):
You know, whether it's a holiday or it's a certain theme that's part of his strip.
He's seen that.
I wonder if that affects him.
Jimmy (47:02):
Oh, I'm sure it has to, even if he says it doesn't, all right?
I mean, being awash in a sea of feedback.
I was just thinking, because we're talking about the 90s, you know, we're reading the 90s in the regular episodes, and I was looking up TV ratings around that period.
And yet, broadcast television was the dominant media in America, and the big shows had tens of millions of viewers.
(47:28):
But, you know, I think the Seinfeld finale was seen by 70 million people.
That's like one-fourth of what Schulz had on a daily basis as a readership, right?
I've seen some estimates that he had around 300 million potential readers anyway.
Harold (47:44):
That is incredible.
Jimmy (47:45):
Insane.
Harold (47:46):
Yeah, yeah.
To have that presence in that many people's lives all around the world is pretty crazy.
Michael (47:54):
I have a feeling that, unlike us, most people who read Peanuts, it was a two-second read, and they never gave it a second thought.
Jimmy (48:07):
Oh, yeah.
Every comic.
Harold (48:09):
Do you think there's a cumulative effect on you given, well, I mean, the merchandise is maybe some sort of indicator of, my gosh, I think people would probably just scan through the funny.
Michael (48:21):
Sure.
Occasionally laugh, but generally not react at all.
Liz (48:26):
But they think, yeah, Peanuts, that's one of my favorite.
Michael (48:29):
Yeah.
Me and my friends talked about that day's peanuts every day.
Harold (48:33):
Wow.
Michael (48:33):
That was a topic of discussion.
But I think in general, reading the dailies especially, it's just a couple of minutes, and then you go on, you don't think about them again.
Harold (48:46):
Yeah, that's true.
It's true.
But yeah, to so many people, so many exposures is pretty crazy.
And maybe that's why we lost Shermie, because they put out a Shermie soap dish, and it was just not a good seller.
Jimmy (49:06):
No one wanted it.
Use Shermie to get rid of your Jeremy.
That's a freebie for you there, Peanuts Worldwide.
Liz (49:19):
It might be time to wrap things up, if that's where we're going.
Jimmy (49:22):
All right.
So do we have an official team for you, Harold?
Are you sticking with the Phillies?
Harold (49:28):
I think I'll stick with none of the above.
That's fine.
But thank you for giving me a chance to live the dream.
Jimmy (49:34):
All right.
Well, then how about this?
Your favorite player, Roy Hobbs.
Harold (49:41):
Roy Hobbs.
Jimmy (49:44):
All right, guys, anything else you want to say before we wrap up this baseball?
Michael (49:48):
I think this is one of the great sequences, if not the best sequence in Peanuts.
Jimmy (49:54):
Yeah, you like it that much.
Harold (49:55):
I think it's great.
Yeah, I do too.
Jimmy (49:57):
Okay.
Well, with all that said, let's get ready for next week's episode.
For Michael, Harold and Liz, this is Jimmy saying, be of good cheer.
Harold (50:06):
Yes.
Michael (50:07):
Be of good cheer.
Liz (50:09):
And play ball.
Unpacking Peanuts is copyrighted by Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner.
Produced and edited by Liz Sumner.
Music by Michael Cohen.
Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads.
(50:29):
Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube.
For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Have a wonderful day, and thanks for listening.
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