September 24, 2024 • 25 mins
Can approaching disagreements with genuine curiosity transform relationships? Join Pastor Kendall and Pastor Mo on "Unpacking Truths" as we explore the nuanced world of conflict resolution among loved ones through a biblical lens. Inspired by Proverbs 18:18, we kick things off with a humorous yet poignant look at resolving disputes, emphasizing the importance of owning up to our mistakes, uplifting each other, and choosing our words wisely. Through personal stories and scriptural insights, we reveal practical steps to navigate conflicts with love, not arrogance.
In the next segment, we uncover the power of curiosity in fostering meaningful dialogue, even amid disagreements over sensitive topics like politics or personal habits. Discover how asking the right questions can open pathways to understanding rather than defensiveness. We'll also discuss the importance of recognizing when to walk away from unproductive conversations, as highlighted by the wisdom of not casting pearls before swine.
We wrap up by setting realistic expectations for growth and seeking divine guidance in conflicts. Inspired by Proverbs 26:17, we delve into the dangers of meddling in others' quarrels and reflect on God's calling in our own disputes. Practical strategies for tough conversations, from careful listening to controlling reactions, are shared alongside powerful scripture references like Psalm 141:3 and James 1:19. We conclude with a heartfelt reminder of the importance of community and continuous self-improvement, encouraging listeners to connect with us and grow in faith and love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, today, on Unpacking Truths, we have an
amazing topic that you're gonnalove.
It's all about conflict anddisagreements, especially among
those you are close with and orlove.
Pastor Kendall and I, we know alot about disagreeing with one
another, and so I often go toscripture, and so I would like
(00:20):
to propose something, if you'regood with it.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Okay, what are you going to propose?
So?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
we're.
We're always in conflict and alittle, but in a good arguing
with what back it's, it's fine,right, it's part of being human.
And so Proverbs 18, 18, I cameacross this and it said that
casting lots right.
So, like rolling the dice,flipping a coin, it puts an end
to the arguing and it actuallymakes those in power quiet.
(00:48):
So I feel like instead, you andI, you know, instead of going
back and forth, we should justheads or tails and then whoever
gets it is the one who is right,and then we could just go on
doing you know, go about our way.
Are you good with that?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What are we flipping over, though?
Whatever?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
the topic.
If I want mechanical, bulls.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
You know here, if I want to do like an after party
after church.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
If there are different things and ideas, I
have right, like a big blow upslide, you know, fun whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
And you just want us to not debate it, or discuss it,
or discern God's leading.
Just flip a coin.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Proverbs is all about wisdom.
So I would rather adhere toscripture right now and just
flip a coin, cast lots and seewhat God's spirit.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Can I have the coin?
I've got one.
I feel like I don't know, Idon't know if I trust you,
should Mo be on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Whoa Heads no tails yes, he might lie, he might fib
what he might lie he might fibwhat's it say Tails?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh, I don't even know which way that went.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
See, that's God, it's God's divine province, okay
you're on the podcast, let's go,mo.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
All right, I'm Pastor Kendall and I'm Pastor Mo.
Welcome to Unpacking Truths,where we dive deep into God's
timeless truths for our livestoday.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Grab your coffee.
Open your hearts and your minds.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Come take this journey with us as we unpack
God's truths when we're talkingabout having disagreements with
one another the listener andthank you for submitting that
and please continue to submittopics.
We love engaging the questionsthat you're putting out there,
and this topic was around peoplesaying or this listener saying
I'm having some disagreementswith people I'm close to and how
(02:29):
do I manage that?
What do I do with that?
And so we come at it from anumber of different ways, but
one of the places I wanted tostart is just remind us this
framework that I think comesfrom scripture, that we've been
lifting up here at Light ofChrist for 20 years, not always
living into it, but lifting itup and trying to live into it.
(02:49):
That scripture really guides uswith five principles, the ABCDs
of Christian community.
First admit when you're wrong.
A.
B build each other up.
C careful with your words.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
D, deal with hurts and forgive one another.
F Right.
And for me, whenever I'm indisagreement with someone, I
always come back to these and golike, okay, kendall, are you
living this out Right?
Are you living?
I wish everyone else would, butI can't control everyone else.
But I got to deal first withmyself, and so am I admitting
(03:26):
when I'm wrong.
Or is this disagreement becauseI'm not willing to step back
and look at, maybe, where I'mwrong?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Absolutely, and scripture.
I mean that's where scripturegoes right.
So this is all.
This is scripture based and soadmitting you know we're wrong.
I think part of that andscripture shows it is the first
process is often checkingourselves right.
You got to check yourselfbefore you rickety, rickety,
wreck yourself right.
So, like you got to listen toKing David when he asked you
know God, to search my heart,show anything within me that is
(03:54):
offensive, and so that we canget an idea of like, where am I
coming out of?
We have to examine ourselves.
We see that in 2 Corinthians,13, 5, 2.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
That's what we're called to do so many places.
I mean I also think of 1 John 1, where if we say we have no sin
, we deceive ourselves.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
There's very likely that there's stuff inside of me
that's contributed to thisdisagreement with whoever it is
that I'm having, but isn't it soeasy to see the wrong in other
people?
Why?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
is that, mo?
It is so much easier to see itin others, but it's in in both
of us.
Yeah, the other thing, then, asI was thinking about this topic
, is, if I do have disagreementwith someone else that I'm close
to within my family, within myfriend group, I start asking
myself some questions like is itworth engaging this?
(04:43):
How do I engage this?
So I sort of have a series ofquestions that I sort of ask,
and one is am I feelingcompelled to engage this with
this person?
Like, am I feeling led to it?
And that's just one to sort oflook at those motivations inside
.
Am I feeling I need to engagethis disagreement because this
(05:04):
other person's words or actionsare hurting me?
Or because this other person'swords or actions are hurting
other people, or because theirthinking is, I'm afraid is going
astray and they could end uphurting themselves.
That those would all be goodreasons that maybe I need to
enter into a place ofdisagreement with this person.
(05:24):
On the other hand, if mymotivation is, I can't believe
this person is so stupid forthinking this and I need to set
them right that probably isn'tcoming out of love, that's
coming out of my own arrogance.
So I may disagree with someone,but if that disagreement's just
out of my own arrogance, maybeI should just shut up and deal
with God, with myself, right.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And that's where the process of going back into the
searching yourself and going toGod and saying, revealing me
anything that may not be alignedwith you, right, because we
don't even know our motivations,if we are living out of 95% of
our thoughts that areunconscious, we're often just
living out of these things thatwe aren't even aware of.
So we have to go within andcheck that out.
But you know, I'm prettyinterested in what you just said
(06:07):
here.
You said deciding if you shouldeven engage or not.
So what are, what are yourlines of like?
Okay, I would engage here and Iwouldn't there, because I'm
kind of more of a proponent ofyou.
Have to engage, like if it isbothersome, if it it, if it hit
you, pinched you in any way.
I think it is a, a cop-out.
(06:28):
I think it's a lie to ourselvesto be like, oh, I'm going to
let it go, cause often we don't,we, we shove it down, we say
we're going to forget it, we sayit's not a big deal, but it is
because it once again goes.
You know, it's in our thoughts,it's in our minds.
It begins to create a story ofwhat we think about the person,
then we begin treating themdifferently, or it becomes our
(06:49):
cop out to just not deal withconflict, because we hate
conflict.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yep, now, mo, I think that really gets to the heart
of some of this conversation.
I'm glad you raised that,because you can sort of err on
one side or the other where youjust engage everything, whether
you should or not, or you avoidit all because I don't like any
of that conflict.
So I think some of it is, andthat goes to that in the ABCDs,
(07:15):
dealing with your hurts, thereare some hurts that sometimes
someone slights me.
You know, they open the doorfor someone else and they didn't
open it for me and I can golike well, I guess they didn't
see me and I can let it go andI'm going on with my life and
and and it's gone.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
You, know you let it roll off your back.
You don't like say curses uponyou and your family.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
No, I usually don't speak, curses upon people for
that.
On the other hand, as some ofmy one of my friends says, you
know there can also be thingswhere it's hurt, they go.
I'm not going to deal with itand I just throw it in the
bucket.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Wait, is it wrong to do like use sarcasm, cause I'm
like I'll use sarcasm insituations like that, where I'm
like, well, apparently chivalryis dead here, as the door just
slammed in my face so that Imean, is that wrong?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Well, I heard someone say sarcasm is the lowest form
of humor, but I but you can usewhat you choose, but I do think,
mo, there are times where wesay, oh, I'm not going to deal
with it, but we throw it in ourbasket of hurts, and that basket
gets bigger and bigger andbigger, and we're not dealing
(08:18):
with it and we're not engaging,and we're holding on to those
hurts rather than dealing withthem with the person.
And if we can't literally letthem go, then you're right, we
do need to engage them withsomeone else, and Scripture
gives us some good guidancethere on how to do that.
I do think, though, there aretimes and you may be more
(08:42):
conflict-aided, um assertive,and I may be a little more
conflict avoidant, justpersonality wise, so we come at
it a little different.
I do throw it through anotherfilter question for myself,
though, and to say is thisperson open to having a
conversation about thisdisagreement?
And there are just a number ofplaces where, um, uh, I went to
(09:05):
proverbs on this, yeah, and thismay be a little harsh, but I
think there's some good thingshere, whereas if someone has
hurt me and they're doingsomething in a way that I don't
think they're going to listen to.
Well, here's just Proverbs 17,16.
It is senseless to pay toeducate a fool since he has no
(09:26):
heart for learning.
Or a single rebuke does morefor a person of understanding
than a hundred lashes on theback of a fool.
That there's sometimes, when Ijust recognize someone is so
caught in their viewpoint,caught in how they're doing
things.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
For me it's banging your head against a brick wall
to engage that Right, and it'syou know and I, and it's because
different things in psychologykind of says, like how we um
attach our uh identity withthese thoughts, right, so if my
identity is attached to thisbelief system or these thoughts
about something specifically,then when you attack that belief
(10:05):
system it's, it's unconsciouslylike an attack on me personally
.
And so I feel like I need to goto battle Like it.
This is life or death, eventhough it's just a topic about
you know disagreeing on.
You know something, whetherit's politics or whether it's
you know something within, youknow the family or or whatever
(10:25):
it's.
It's pretty interesting, butyeah, we, we often don't step
away from the issue or the topic.
It's pretty interesting, but,yeah, we often don't step away
from the issue or the topic.
It feels like it's a personalattack.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Well, yeah, and I think that then also goes to how
you have those disagreeingconversations, if you can frame
it up in a way so it's notattacking the action but saying,
hey, I have a question aboutthis.
I mean, I think there are waysyou can approach disagreements
that have a greater likelihoodof success or putting the person
(10:55):
on the defensive.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I like that you say that.
I like that you speak into it,because I have found, when I
approach people with curiositygenuine curiosity like oh wow,
that's really interesting.
Can you explain more into whyyou feel that way, or why you
think that or how you came aboutseeing that play itself out in
this specific way, because wemay have seen something and
(11:17):
viewed it quite differently, andso I like that.
Approaching it with curiosityis a great way to approach
someone, and this is one ofthese places, mo, as we were
talking, about.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And you know, and this is one of these places, Mo,
as we were talking aboutengaging this topic or as I was
reflecting on it, I wasn'treally sure exactly when the
listener said you know, I havedisagreements with people that
I'm close to.
I didn't know if it wasdisagreements about politics and
how to engage that, or it wasdisagreements that they do
(11:45):
things differently than I, ordisagreements because they're
doing something that actuallyhurts me.
Those are all sort of differentcategories.
So I don't, listener, I don'tknow if we're engaging this
perfectly.
And so when you do submittopics and you're wanting, feel
(12:05):
free to be specific in yours sothat we can try and engage them
as clearly and as well aspossible.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah Well, I mean, I think it could hit on anything
right Like what you're saying,though approaching with
curiosity whatever Curiosity isalways good, mo, that is such a
great one and I I've beenhearing more and more people
lift that up, and I love thatidea.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
When you come at things with honest questions, no
, you can't come at it withloaded questions Like you know,
why in the heck did you do itthat way?
Right, I mean there's kind of aloadedness.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
What were you thinking?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah yeah, that is not curiosity, that is
accusation framed in a question.
And that doesn't work anybetter than a direct attack.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So speak a little more into when would you say no,
this I mean I hate to say thisperson's a fool.
I'm not even going to engage.
Like, what are the determiningfactors to be like?
Ah, I mean, I hate to say thisperson's a fool.
I'm not even going to engage.
Like, what are the determiningfactors to be like?
Ah, check.
So what can we look for to belike not worth it?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Well, to me, have your interactions with this
person previously been such thatyou've been able to actually
have a dialogue with them, thatif you've tried that three or
four times and it always getsshut down, and the other person
just said, oh, forget it, oh,you're just wrong At some point
(13:17):
to keep engaging that, okay,past experience.
Past experience, I think.
The other is sometimes howyou've observe this person is
engaged with other people.
So maybe you haven't had thatwith you, but you've seen them
engage whenever they've had adisagreement with anyone else
and they just seem to shut itdown.
(13:38):
They just get angry, realquickly and you're just like—.
You're very reactive and notreflective.
Those are also places where I'mgoing.
Well, do I really want to takethat on.
Do I want to jump in that sharktank?
Yeah exactly so I think thoseit's sort of patterns of
(13:58):
behavior either that I'veexperienced or that.
I've observed that might leadme to be hesitant.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I think that's wise, I think that you know it reminds
me of Jesus don't throw yourpearls to pigs or they will
trample over them and come andattack you, right, like, don't
try to have this deeper,reflective conversation.
If the person is just going to,you know, trample all over what
you say, not hear it, and comeand then come back aggressively
and reactive.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So I think those are sort of the questions that I ask
or what I try to observe.
I think the again.
I spent some time in Proverbson this and I was struck by this
verse in Proverbs 26, 17.
Interfering in someone else'sargument is as foolish as
yanking a dog's ear.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
You know, like sometimes- Because you might get
bit.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, might get bit.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I like that.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You know if the disagreement isn't just between
you and me.
But I see you disagreeing withsomeone else and I try to jump
in.
I may just get you know like.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So I think there again it should parents quote
that with their kids and be likelisten, I don't want to get bit
.
It's like pulling a dog's ear.
You two go at it.
Let me know how it turns out.
You know what?
Yeah, to all those listening.
Why don't you try that at homeand then comment let us know how
it goes?
It's wisdom from scripture, butI'm really curious to see how
it plays itself out.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
The, you know, going from playful to serious.
The other question that I've,though, started to ask myself.
Started, it sounds really bad.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Just recently.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, just recently, no, but recently feeling very
much called back to around thisquestion of disagreement.
Is God calling me to engagethis?
Is God calling me to engagethis?
That sometimes, even if I don'tthink the outlook is very good
or I've seen patterns ofbehavior, god might still call
me to engage in thisconversation, even if I'm not so
(15:59):
hopeful that it's going to comeout well or that it's going to
go smoothly or that anything'sgoing to change.
But maybe God is calling me toit.
So I have really been recentlycoming back to change, but maybe
God is calling me to it.
So I have really been recentlycoming back to saying okay, god,
what do you want me to do inthis conflict situation?
Am I supposed to speak, am Inot?
What should I speak?
And asking that question andbeing still and trying to listen
(16:21):
for God's prompting, for theHoly Spirit's prompting within
me, because sometimes I can getvery rational.
Oh is this going to likely toway.
Oh, I need to do it this way.
But sometimes it comes back.
What is God calling me?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
to.
I love that and you know I'veoften had to have conversations
that I didn't want to, andespecially when I have seen,
like you, there's thisrepetitive pattern of like not
being open, not being willing tolisten, and so, even if I feel
called, the first thing I do isI absolutely begin in prayer.
(16:55):
Right before I open my mouth Igo to Psalm 141.3.
Set a guard over my mouth, lord.
I repeat that often.
Set a guard over my mouth rightthat.
Often.
Set a guard over my mouth,right, like or James 1.19,.
Be quick to listen and slow tospeak and slow to get angry.
Just channeling in on that,because so often when things
(17:19):
sting, we can be reactive withour mouths and how powerful our
words are and they cut like adouble-edged sword.
We don't realize until we'vealready said it and we can all
go back and remember somethingsaid to us in our youth or
something said to us at somepoint in time by someone we
cared about, and we still carrythose words with us and often
(17:40):
live out of them, even though wedon't want to right this.
Know I'm not smart enough orI'm not, you know, whatever it
is.
And so just being reallycareful with my words and I'll
pray even while the person'stalking.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Are you supposed to be listening to them, though?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
You know what, sometimes it's better for their
well-being if I actually pray.
So I'm like I feel somethingrising up in me.
You said maybe I'm a littlemore assertive when it comes to
conflict.
The good Lord has tamed me alot because the fact that I'm
still in my seat is a gift fromGod and a blessing and an
example of transformation, andnew life.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
The Holy Spirit can work.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Pastor Mo is an example, a girl could jump
across the table just if I needto.
A girl could jump across thetable just if I need to.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
You know, Mo, we've had some conversation among
ourselves and with the staffhere at Light of Christ about
how to have difficultconversations.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And because it is necessary and at times you need
to know how to do that.
The things that I was reallystruck by is we did some
research on that that they liftthat a couple of resources
lifted up is, you know,obviously starting with prayer,
but a secondary step of it ishaving a goal for that difficult
(19:02):
conversation Expectations,absolutely, you know is my goal
to have perfect reconciliation,and so this person sees my point
and totally agrees with me.
Well, that may be the wrong goal.
Maybe the right goal is simplyto go into a difficult
conversation and say my goal outof this is that this person
actually listens to me, what Ihave to say, whether they agree
(19:25):
with it, disagree with it orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I don't even think that's like.
If my expectation is for you tolisten to me, I mean that's a
big expectation.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Okay, you're right, maybe that's too big a one.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Because the probability, because number one,
I can't control you, right, Ican't make you listen.
Because of number one, I can'tcontrol you, right, I can't make
you listen.
I think of it like this,especially when it comes to my
kids or anyone I love, or ifthere's a bigger vision, even at
the workplace.
If there's a bigger vision, I'mlike, okay, what are my
(19:57):
expectations?
My goal is peace among us, ormy goal is to get this project
done, or my goal is to be ableto be in a good relationship
with you, right?
And if that's my goal, then I'mwilling to compromise being
right or not, especially whenI'm thinking about my kids.
I just went and took the dog tothe vet for my daughter it's her
dog and spent all this moneyfor necessities and she's like
(20:17):
was this heartworm stuff reallyneeded?
Was this rabies thing really?
They didn't need dog tags.
I'm like, well, according toKane County, they do.
So you know you can bring it upwith the county.
But and so there's all thisstuff and I'm sitting here like
thinking I'm arguing with a fool, right, like what am I doing
here?
And and yet I'm like I had togo wait.
(20:42):
What is my bigger goal?
It's peace with her.
It's a good relationship and soI'm like you know, why don't
you research these costs?
And they are what they are andwe can talk about it later.
But like not personalizingthings, because really I do want
a good relationship and peaceand you know people are in
different stages of growth rightand.
I think that's important toremember.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah.
So having that goal isimportant and setting it
right-sized goal for aconversation, and maybe the goal
is just to be able to, yeah,open a dialogue with nothing
more than that, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And I do feel like we need to bring up that like the
biggest part about resolvingconflict is we need to begin
with the foundation of love.
Right, we're called we'reliterally resolving conflict is
to love one another as Christlove us.
That's John 13, 34, like allover scripture is.
Are we treating people with thesame kind of sacrificial, other
(21:35):
focused care and love thatJesus showed us?
And if not, how can we acceptthat continuously from Christ
and then not offer it to othersand call ourselves followers of
Jesus?
And I convict myself with thatall the time, and that's what
gets me back on doing the rightthing, because I'm like I can't.
In good conscience I can't, andso, yeah, I just think that's
(21:57):
what we're called to be doing.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
You know and I just love how Paul framed it in
Ephesians 4, where he said speakthe truth in love.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
That sometimes we just want to blast people with
our truth and the truth is wemay not see the full truth, we
may only see our part of thetruth.
But even that, speaking that inlove to the other person and so
that they can see our love forthem.
So sometimes you start byaffirming what you can affirm in
the relationship, you start byaffirming with their actions,
(22:28):
whatever you can affirm and thensay and I'm also struggling
with this but speaking the truthin love, I think so crucial.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, a pastor once told me that was really
priceless.
If you speak the truth toanother person without love and
without grace, it's just cruel,and that really resonated with
me, and so I'd love to hear whatyou guys have to say about this
?
How have you dealt with conflictamong people you love or in the
(22:57):
workplace that you're justtrying to work with and create a
space of peace?
This is the type of stuff weneed to be sharing as we're
unpacking the truth of how Godis calling us to live in this
way and be peacemakers whereverwe're at.
And so, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
No, love it.
And thanks for tuning in today.
All you peacemakers out thereand all you people called to be
peacemakers.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Amen Take care.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Next time on Unpacking Truths.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Pastor Kendall and I are going to do our best, by the
grace of God, with the HolySpirit, to unpack the truth of a
topic that we all love politicsand religion.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Was this your brilliant idea.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, you know what I'm a glutton for punishment.
What can I say?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
The well.
I think it is an importanttopic, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And a topic that often, as Christians in the
church, we avoid.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Well or do really poorly at oh yeah, oh yeah.
Yeah, so we're going to try anddo a little better than poorly
here today?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, just a smidge, but we'll see.
You'll be the judges of thatLow expectations so that we, you
know, hopefully hit our goal.
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of Unpacking Truths.
If anything that we discussedsparked any ideas or you have
any questions, we would love foryou to go to unpackingtruthscom
, or you can also email us atunpackingtruths at locchurchcom.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And don't forget to like, share or subscribe to the
podcast, because you doing thatallows other people to connect
to this content and grow withGod as well.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Until next time, we hope you know that you are loved
.
Hey, today, on Unpacking Truths, we have an
amazing topic that you're gonnalove.
It's all about conflict anddisagreements, especially among
those you are close with and orlove.
Pastor Kendall and I, we know alot about disagreeing with one
another, and so I often go toscripture, and so I would like
(00:20):
to propose something, if you'regood with it.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Okay, what are you going to propose?
So?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
we're.
We're always in conflict and alittle, but in a good arguing
with what back it's, it's fine,right, it's part of being human.
And so Proverbs 18, 18, I cameacross this and it said that
casting lots right.
So, like rolling the dice,flipping a coin, it puts an end
to the arguing and it actuallymakes those in power quiet.
(00:48):
So I feel like instead, you andI, you know, instead of going
back and forth, we should justheads or tails and then whoever
gets it is the one who is right,and then we could just go on
doing you know, go about our way.
Are you good with that?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What are we flipping over, though?
Whatever?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
the topic.
If I want mechanical, bulls.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
You know here, if I want to do like an after party
after church.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
If there are different things and ideas, I
have right, like a big blow upslide, you know, fun whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
And you just want us to not debate it, or discuss it,
or discern God's leading.
Just flip a coin.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Proverbs is all about wisdom.
So I would rather adhere toscripture right now and just
flip a coin, cast lots and seewhat God's spirit.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Can I have the coin?
I've got one.
I feel like I don't know, Idon't know if I trust you,
should Mo be on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Whoa Heads no tails yes, he might lie, he might fib
what he might lie he might fibwhat's it say Tails?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh, I don't even know which way that went.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
See, that's God, it's God's divine province, okay
you're on the podcast, let's go,mo.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
All right, I'm Pastor Kendall and I'm Pastor Mo.
Welcome to Unpacking Truths,where we dive deep into God's
timeless truths for our livestoday.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Grab your coffee.
Open your hearts and your minds.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Come take this journey with us as we unpack
God's truths when we're talkingabout having disagreements with
one another the listener andthank you for submitting that
and please continue to submittopics.
We love engaging the questionsthat you're putting out there,
and this topic was around peoplesaying or this listener saying
I'm having some disagreementswith people I'm close to and how
(02:29):
do I manage that?
What do I do with that?
And so we come at it from anumber of different ways, but
one of the places I wanted tostart is just remind us this
framework that I think comesfrom scripture, that we've been
lifting up here at Light ofChrist for 20 years, not always
living into it, but lifting itup and trying to live into it.
(02:49):
That scripture really guides uswith five principles, the ABCDs
of Christian community.
First admit when you're wrong.
A.
B build each other up.
C careful with your words.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
D, deal with hurts and forgive one another.
F Right.
And for me, whenever I'm indisagreement with someone, I
always come back to these and golike, okay, kendall, are you
living this out Right?
Are you living?
I wish everyone else would, butI can't control everyone else.
But I got to deal first withmyself, and so am I admitting
(03:26):
when I'm wrong.
Or is this disagreement becauseI'm not willing to step back
and look at, maybe, where I'mwrong?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Absolutely, and scripture.
I mean that's where scripturegoes right.
So this is all.
This is scripture based and soadmitting you know we're wrong.
I think part of that andscripture shows it is the first
process is often checkingourselves right.
You got to check yourselfbefore you rickety, rickety,
wreck yourself right.
So, like you got to listen toKing David when he asked you
know God, to search my heart,show anything within me that is
(03:54):
offensive, and so that we canget an idea of like, where am I
coming out of?
We have to examine ourselves.
We see that in 2 Corinthians,13, 5, 2.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
That's what we're called to do so many places.
I mean I also think of 1 John 1, where if we say we have no sin
, we deceive ourselves.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
There's very likely that there's stuff inside of me
that's contributed to thisdisagreement with whoever it is
that I'm having, but isn't it soeasy to see the wrong in other
people?
Why?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
is that, mo?
It is so much easier to see itin others, but it's in in both
of us.
Yeah, the other thing, then, asI was thinking about this topic
, is, if I do have disagreementwith someone else that I'm close
to within my family, within myfriend group, I start asking
myself some questions like is itworth engaging this?
(04:43):
How do I engage this?
So I sort of have a series ofquestions that I sort of ask,
and one is am I feelingcompelled to engage this with
this person?
Like, am I feeling led to it?
And that's just one to sort oflook at those motivations inside
.
Am I feeling I need to engagethis disagreement because this
(05:04):
other person's words or actionsare hurting me?
Or because this other person'swords or actions are hurting
other people, or because theirthinking is, I'm afraid is going
astray and they could end uphurting themselves.
That those would all be goodreasons that maybe I need to
enter into a place ofdisagreement with this person.
(05:24):
On the other hand, if mymotivation is, I can't believe
this person is so stupid forthinking this and I need to set
them right that probably isn'tcoming out of love, that's
coming out of my own arrogance.
So I may disagree with someone,but if that disagreement's just
out of my own arrogance, maybeI should just shut up and deal
with God, with myself, right.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And that's where the process of going back into the
searching yourself and going toGod and saying, revealing me
anything that may not be alignedwith you, right, because we
don't even know our motivations,if we are living out of 95% of
our thoughts that areunconscious, we're often just
living out of these things thatwe aren't even aware of.
So we have to go within andcheck that out.
But you know, I'm prettyinterested in what you just said
(06:07):
here.
You said deciding if you shouldeven engage or not.
So what are, what are yourlines of like?
Okay, I would engage here and Iwouldn't there, because I'm
kind of more of a proponent ofyou.
Have to engage, like if it isbothersome, if it it, if it hit
you, pinched you in any way.
I think it is a, a cop-out.
(06:28):
I think it's a lie to ourselvesto be like, oh, I'm going to
let it go, cause often we don't,we, we shove it down, we say
we're going to forget it, we sayit's not a big deal, but it is
because it once again goes.
You know, it's in our thoughts,it's in our minds.
It begins to create a story ofwhat we think about the person,
then we begin treating themdifferently, or it becomes our
(06:49):
cop out to just not deal withconflict, because we hate
conflict.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yep, now, mo, I think that really gets to the heart
of some of this conversation.
I'm glad you raised that,because you can sort of err on
one side or the other where youjust engage everything, whether
you should or not, or you avoidit all because I don't like any
of that conflict.
So I think some of it is, andthat goes to that in the ABCDs,
(07:15):
dealing with your hurts, thereare some hurts that sometimes
someone slights me.
You know, they open the doorfor someone else and they didn't
open it for me and I can golike well, I guess they didn't
see me and I can let it go andI'm going on with my life and
and and it's gone.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
You, know you let it roll off your back.
You don't like say curses uponyou and your family.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
No, I usually don't speak, curses upon people for
that.
On the other hand, as some ofmy one of my friends says, you
know there can also be thingswhere it's hurt, they go.
I'm not going to deal with itand I just throw it in the
bucket.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Wait, is it wrong to do like use sarcasm, cause I'm
like I'll use sarcasm insituations like that, where I'm
like, well, apparently chivalryis dead here, as the door just
slammed in my face so that Imean, is that wrong?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Well, I heard someone say sarcasm is the lowest form
of humor, but I but you can usewhat you choose, but I do think,
mo, there are times where wesay, oh, I'm not going to deal
with it, but we throw it in ourbasket of hurts, and that basket
gets bigger and bigger andbigger, and we're not dealing
(08:18):
with it and we're not engaging,and we're holding on to those
hurts rather than dealing withthem with the person.
And if we can't literally letthem go, then you're right, we
do need to engage them withsomeone else, and Scripture
gives us some good guidancethere on how to do that.
I do think, though, there aretimes and you may be more
(08:42):
conflict-aided, um assertive,and I may be a little more
conflict avoidant, justpersonality wise, so we come at
it a little different.
I do throw it through anotherfilter question for myself,
though, and to say is thisperson open to having a
conversation about thisdisagreement?
And there are just a number ofplaces where, um, uh, I went to
(09:05):
proverbs on this, yeah, and thismay be a little harsh, but I
think there's some good thingshere, whereas if someone has
hurt me and they're doingsomething in a way that I don't
think they're going to listen to.
Well, here's just Proverbs 17,16.
It is senseless to pay toeducate a fool since he has no
(09:26):
heart for learning.
Or a single rebuke does morefor a person of understanding
than a hundred lashes on theback of a fool.
That there's sometimes, when Ijust recognize someone is so
caught in their viewpoint,caught in how they're doing
things.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
For me it's banging your head against a brick wall
to engage that Right, and it'syou know and I, and it's because
different things in psychologykind of says, like how we um
attach our uh identity withthese thoughts, right, so if my
identity is attached to thisbelief system or these thoughts
about something specifically,then when you attack that belief
(10:05):
system it's, it's unconsciouslylike an attack on me personally
.
And so I feel like I need to goto battle Like it.
This is life or death, eventhough it's just a topic about
you know disagreeing on.
You know something, whetherit's politics or whether it's
you know something within, youknow the family or or whatever
(10:25):
it's.
It's pretty interesting, butyeah, we, we often don't step
away from the issue or the topic.
It's pretty interesting, but,yeah, we often don't step away
from the issue or the topic.
It feels like it's a personalattack.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Well, yeah, and I think that then also goes to how
you have those disagreeingconversations, if you can frame
it up in a way so it's notattacking the action but saying,
hey, I have a question aboutthis.
I mean, I think there are waysyou can approach disagreements
that have a greater likelihoodof success or putting the person
(10:55):
on the defensive.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I like that you say that.
I like that you speak into it,because I have found, when I
approach people with curiositygenuine curiosity like oh wow,
that's really interesting.
Can you explain more into whyyou feel that way, or why you
think that or how you came aboutseeing that play itself out in
this specific way, because wemay have seen something and
(11:17):
viewed it quite differently, andso I like that.
Approaching it with curiosityis a great way to approach
someone, and this is one ofthese places, mo, as we were
talking, about.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And you know, and this is one of these places, Mo,
as we were talking aboutengaging this topic or as I was
reflecting on it, I wasn'treally sure exactly when the
listener said you know, I havedisagreements with people that
I'm close to.
I didn't know if it wasdisagreements about politics and
how to engage that, or it wasdisagreements that they do
(11:45):
things differently than I, ordisagreements because they're
doing something that actuallyhurts me.
Those are all sort of differentcategories.
So I don't, listener, I don'tknow if we're engaging this
perfectly.
And so when you do submittopics and you're wanting, feel
(12:05):
free to be specific in yours sothat we can try and engage them
as clearly and as well aspossible.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah Well, I mean, I think it could hit on anything
right Like what you're saying,though approaching with
curiosity whatever Curiosity isalways good, mo, that is such a
great one and I I've beenhearing more and more people
lift that up, and I love thatidea.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
When you come at things with honest questions, no
, you can't come at it withloaded questions Like you know,
why in the heck did you do itthat way?
Right, I mean there's kind of aloadedness.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
What were you thinking?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah yeah, that is not curiosity, that is
accusation framed in a question.
And that doesn't work anybetter than a direct attack.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So speak a little more into when would you say no,
this I mean I hate to say thisperson's a fool.
I'm not even going to engage.
Like, what are the determiningfactors to be like?
Ah, I mean, I hate to say thisperson's a fool.
I'm not even going to engage.
Like, what are the determiningfactors to be like?
Ah, check.
So what can we look for to belike not worth it?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Well, to me, have your interactions with this
person previously been such thatyou've been able to actually
have a dialogue with them, thatif you've tried that three or
four times and it always getsshut down, and the other person
just said, oh, forget it, oh,you're just wrong At some point
(13:17):
to keep engaging that, okay,past experience.
Past experience, I think.
The other is sometimes howyou've observe this person is
engaged with other people.
So maybe you haven't had thatwith you, but you've seen them
engage whenever they've had adisagreement with anyone else
and they just seem to shut itdown.
(13:38):
They just get angry, realquickly and you're just like—.
You're very reactive and notreflective.
Those are also places where I'mgoing.
Well, do I really want to takethat on.
Do I want to jump in that sharktank?
Yeah exactly so I think thoseit's sort of patterns of
(13:58):
behavior either that I'veexperienced or that.
I've observed that might leadme to be hesitant.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I think that's wise, I think that you know it reminds
me of Jesus don't throw yourpearls to pigs or they will
trample over them and come andattack you, right, like, don't
try to have this deeper,reflective conversation.
If the person is just going to,you know, trample all over what
you say, not hear it, and comeand then come back aggressively
and reactive.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So I think those are sort of the questions that I ask
or what I try to observe.
I think the again.
I spent some time in Proverbson this and I was struck by this
verse in Proverbs 26, 17.
Interfering in someone else'sargument is as foolish as
yanking a dog's ear.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
You know, like sometimes- Because you might get
bit.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, might get bit.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I like that.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You know if the disagreement isn't just between
you and me.
But I see you disagreeing withsomeone else and I try to jump
in.
I may just get you know like.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So I think there again it should parents quote
that with their kids and be likelisten, I don't want to get bit
.
It's like pulling a dog's ear.
You two go at it.
Let me know how it turns out.
You know what?
Yeah, to all those listening.
Why don't you try that at homeand then comment let us know how
it goes?
It's wisdom from scripture, butI'm really curious to see how
it plays itself out.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
The, you know, going from playful to serious.
The other question that I've,though, started to ask myself.
Started, it sounds really bad.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Just recently.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, just recently, no, but recently feeling very
much called back to around thisquestion of disagreement.
Is God calling me to engagethis?
Is God calling me to engagethis?
That sometimes, even if I don'tthink the outlook is very good
or I've seen patterns ofbehavior, god might still call
me to engage in thisconversation, even if I'm not so
(15:59):
hopeful that it's going to comeout well or that it's going to
go smoothly or that anything'sgoing to change.
But maybe God is calling me toit.
So I have really been recentlycoming back to change, but maybe
God is calling me to it.
So I have really been recentlycoming back to saying okay, god,
what do you want me to do inthis conflict situation?
Am I supposed to speak, am Inot?
What should I speak?
And asking that question andbeing still and trying to listen
(16:21):
for God's prompting, for theHoly Spirit's prompting within
me, because sometimes I can getvery rational.
Oh is this going to likely toway.
Oh, I need to do it this way.
But sometimes it comes back.
What is God calling me?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
to.
I love that and you know I'veoften had to have conversations
that I didn't want to, andespecially when I have seen,
like you, there's thisrepetitive pattern of like not
being open, not being willing tolisten, and so, even if I feel
called, the first thing I do isI absolutely begin in prayer.
(16:55):
Right before I open my mouth Igo to Psalm 141.3.
Set a guard over my mouth, lord.
I repeat that often.
Set a guard over my mouth rightthat.
Often.
Set a guard over my mouth,right, like or James 1.19,.
Be quick to listen and slow tospeak and slow to get angry.
Just channeling in on that,because so often when things
(17:19):
sting, we can be reactive withour mouths and how powerful our
words are and they cut like adouble-edged sword.
We don't realize until we'vealready said it and we can all
go back and remember somethingsaid to us in our youth or
something said to us at somepoint in time by someone we
cared about, and we still carrythose words with us and often
(17:40):
live out of them, even though wedon't want to right this.
Know I'm not smart enough orI'm not, you know, whatever it
is.
And so just being reallycareful with my words and I'll
pray even while the person'stalking.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Are you supposed to be listening to them, though?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
You know what, sometimes it's better for their
well-being if I actually pray.
So I'm like I feel somethingrising up in me.
You said maybe I'm a littlemore assertive when it comes to
conflict.
The good Lord has tamed me alot because the fact that I'm
still in my seat is a gift fromGod and a blessing and an
example of transformation, andnew life.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
The Holy Spirit can work.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Pastor Mo is an example, a girl could jump
across the table just if I needto.
A girl could jump across thetable just if I need to.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
You know, Mo, we've had some conversation among
ourselves and with the staffhere at Light of Christ about
how to have difficultconversations.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And because it is necessary and at times you need
to know how to do that.
The things that I was reallystruck by is we did some
research on that that they liftthat a couple of resources
lifted up is, you know,obviously starting with prayer,
but a secondary step of it ishaving a goal for that difficult
(19:02):
conversation Expectations,absolutely, you know is my goal
to have perfect reconciliation,and so this person sees my point
and totally agrees with me.
Well, that may be the wrong goal.
Maybe the right goal is simplyto go into a difficult
conversation and say my goal outof this is that this person
actually listens to me, what Ihave to say, whether they agree
(19:25):
with it, disagree with it orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I don't even think that's like.
If my expectation is for you tolisten to me, I mean that's a
big expectation.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Okay, you're right, maybe that's too big a one.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Because the probability, because number one,
I can't control you, right, Ican't make you listen.
Because of number one, I can'tcontrol you, right, I can't make
you listen.
I think of it like this,especially when it comes to my
kids or anyone I love, or ifthere's a bigger vision, even at
the workplace.
If there's a bigger vision, I'mlike, okay, what are my
(19:57):
expectations?
My goal is peace among us, ormy goal is to get this project
done, or my goal is to be ableto be in a good relationship
with you, right?
And if that's my goal, then I'mwilling to compromise being
right or not, especially whenI'm thinking about my kids.
I just went and took the dog tothe vet for my daughter it's her
dog and spent all this moneyfor necessities and she's like
(20:17):
was this heartworm stuff reallyneeded?
Was this rabies thing really?
They didn't need dog tags.
I'm like, well, according toKane County, they do.
So you know you can bring it upwith the county.
But and so there's all thisstuff and I'm sitting here like
thinking I'm arguing with a fool, right, like what am I doing
here?
And and yet I'm like I had togo wait.
(20:42):
What is my bigger goal?
It's peace with her.
It's a good relationship and soI'm like you know, why don't
you research these costs?
And they are what they are andwe can talk about it later.
But like not personalizingthings, because really I do want
a good relationship and peaceand you know people are in
different stages of growth rightand.
I think that's important toremember.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah.
So having that goal isimportant and setting it
right-sized goal for aconversation, and maybe the goal
is just to be able to, yeah,open a dialogue with nothing
more than that, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
And I do feel like we need to bring up that like the
biggest part about resolvingconflict is we need to begin
with the foundation of love.
Right, we're called we'reliterally resolving conflict is
to love one another as Christlove us.
That's John 13, 34, like allover scripture is.
Are we treating people with thesame kind of sacrificial, other
(21:35):
focused care and love thatJesus showed us?
And if not, how can we acceptthat continuously from Christ
and then not offer it to othersand call ourselves followers of
Jesus?
And I convict myself with thatall the time, and that's what
gets me back on doing the rightthing, because I'm like I can't.
In good conscience I can't, andso, yeah, I just think that's
(21:57):
what we're called to be doing.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
You know and I just love how Paul framed it in
Ephesians 4, where he said speakthe truth in love.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
That sometimes we just want to blast people with
our truth and the truth is wemay not see the full truth, we
may only see our part of thetruth.
But even that, speaking that inlove to the other person and so
that they can see our love forthem.
So sometimes you start byaffirming what you can affirm in
the relationship, you start byaffirming with their actions,
(22:28):
whatever you can affirm and thensay and I'm also struggling
with this but speaking the truthin love, I think so crucial.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, a pastor once told me that was really
priceless.
If you speak the truth toanother person without love and
without grace, it's just cruel,and that really resonated with
me, and so I'd love to hear whatyou guys have to say about this
?
How have you dealt with conflictamong people you love or in the
(22:57):
workplace that you're justtrying to work with and create a
space of peace?
This is the type of stuff weneed to be sharing as we're
unpacking the truth of how Godis calling us to live in this
way and be peacemakers whereverwe're at.
And so, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
No, love it.
And thanks for tuning in today.
All you peacemakers out thereand all you people called to be
peacemakers.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Amen Take care.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Next time on Unpacking Truths.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Pastor Kendall and I are going to do our best, by the
grace of God, with the HolySpirit, to unpack the truth of a
topic that we all love politicsand religion.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Was this your brilliant idea.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, you know what I'm a glutton for punishment.
What can I say?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
The well.
I think it is an importanttopic, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And a topic that often, as Christians in the
church, we avoid.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Well or do really poorly at oh yeah, oh yeah.
Yeah, so we're going to try anddo a little better than poorly
here today?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, just a smidge, but we'll see.
You'll be the judges of thatLow expectations so that we, you
know, hopefully hit our goal.
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of Unpacking Truths.
If anything that we discussedsparked any ideas or you have
any questions, we would love foryou to go to unpackingtruthscom
, or you can also email us atunpackingtruths at locchurchcom.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And don't forget to like, share or subscribe to the
podcast, because you doing thatallows other people to connect
to this content and grow withGod as well.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Until next time, we hope you know that you are loved
.
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