July 9, 2024 • 23 mins
Ever felt boxed in by marital status labels within your church community? In this episode, Pastor Kendall and Pastor Mo unravel the complex web of expectations and pressures that singles and married individuals navigate in the realm of faith. They explore the reality behind the myths of marital bliss and single woes, breaking down societal constructs and advocating for a church culture that champions every individual's journey, whether solo or partnered.
Pastor Kendall and Pastor Mo don't shy away from the tough conversations about the unique challenges faced by singles, such as the assumption of abundant free time and the sting of loneliness. They also peel back the curtains on the struggles that married couples endure, often hidden beneath the surface of perceived perfection. Their heartfelt discussion aims to resonate with listeners who share these experiences, encouraging a shift towards inclusivity that embraces both single and married members alike.
Navigating the dynamics of faith as a couple or as a single person can be a spiritual tightrope walk, but Pastor Kendall and Pastor Mo are here as guiding voices. They delve into the nuances of couples' ministry and its implications for community cohesion, emphasizing the value that each person brings to the tapestry of the church, irrespective of their relationship status. Join them for a candid exploration of life, love, and faith as they strive for a church that reflects the diverse beauty of its congregation.
#FaithJourney #ChurchCommunity #SingleAndMarried #InclusiveChurch #FaithAndRelationships #MaritalStatus #SpiritualGuidance #BreakingMyths #FaithConversations #CommunityCohesion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right.
So Pastor Kendall and I thoughtit would be fun if we talked
about some assumptions, someweaknesses and some strengths
found within the church, whetheryou are married, like Pastor
Kendall, or single, like myself.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi, I'm Pastor Kendall.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
And I'm Pastor Mo and we are Unpacking Truths.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Where we unpack God's Word and God's truth for life.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
today, everyone is seeking, and we're here to help
you find hope and power in God'struth for life.
Today, everyone is seeking, andwe're here to help you find
hope and power in God's word.
So let's get started on that.
What are some assumptionswithin the church?
You think about married andsingle people?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Great question.
Well, I think we have all sortsof different assumptions.
I mean, I think one of them wewere talking about just before
this, when we came in the ideathat when we come into the
worshiping community, when we'reshowing up to something, we
usually have a smile on our face.
We're out in public, we'reputting on our best face, so we
all see each other with our bestface on, at least at first
glance.
So, you see a couple walking ingoing.
(01:00):
they're smiling, you're goingwow they are a perfectly married
couple, they must have it alltogether, and so we assume that
they have it all together.
And then we sometimes look atourselves and go maybe I don't,
but they do so I think that'sone of the assumptions you know
they're a Christian couple.
Yeah, they'll probably have itall together.
They never fight.
They get along well.
(01:20):
They raise perfect kids.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Jesus is at the center of every argument.
Yes, yes they pray before theyargue.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yes, yeah, let's get really angry with each other.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Hold on, let's hold hands and pray first.
Yeah, I can see myself doingthat.
No, I can't.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So that might be one assumption that everyone's
perfectly you know, marriagesare all in perfect shape.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So what about an assumption of single people?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, Something's wrong with us Like.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I can't yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Like I can't tell you how many people actually it
flows out of their mouth Um, whyare you single?
What's wrong, what's going onthat you're single and it's like
, well, I'm not sure anything'swrong at the moment, and I mean
lots are wrong, but I'm not sureit's the fact I'm single.
(02:11):
And so there's this idea that Idon't know if it's just
culturally or also within thechurch, I'm sure within the
church as well that to have agood life is to be married.
The norm is to be married.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Which is interesting, mo, because in our culture the
percent of the adult populationthat is single continues to rise
.
I've seen that more and more.
It's up to some.
I wish I should have checked itbefore we came in.
I didn't think of that, my headdidn't go to that, but it is.
I mean, if anything the churchhas to figure out, what does it
mean to be a church where-.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Culture is shifting and I did look up some stats
because I was like, yeah, wheredid this come from?
And so I saw that in the 1950s,the average age to marry was 20
for females and 23 for males,and in 2020, it jumped to 28 for
females and 31 for males, andso there's an age shift.
There's a thing happening whereeven older generations within
(03:10):
the church are like what's wrongwith them?
They're 30 and not married,whereas that's kind of becoming
the cultural norm too.
So we're getting a lot ofsingles in the church.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes, so you know, when we were talking about
assumptions for single and I wasthinking about that I saw
assumptions going in both ways.
Yeah, that there are somepeople that I think see a single
person and assume they aresingle and they want to be
single for the rest of theirlives, that they like that,
really, like I've never gottenthat one, well, I think the and.
(03:44):
The other one, though, is likeoh, they're just looking for a
partner and and and.
So that, who can I set?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
them up with If they're looking for a partner.
Why don't you hook us up Like I?
I'm thinking like don't youhave like sons or cousins, or
you know brothers, like that's?
One really weird thing is that.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I just thought you said you were okay with being
single, though Now you're sayingyou're asking for.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Some people.
If that, that's anotherassumption.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Is this unpacking truth?
Dating app Is that what thisjust became?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
That's another assumption is that I've actually
had people also say like maybeyou've been given the gift of
singleness, and I'm like what isthat?
That's a gift.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I was like I mean not that, that's not a gift, Like
some people talk about it as agift though, when you want that
in your heart, then wouldn't yoube like I am very content being
single.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I love this life, I feel called to it, but just
because you are single doesn'tmean you've been given some
spiritual gift of singleness.
I that doesn't.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
No, it makes sense.
I'm just trying to figure outif you're talking out of both
sides of your mouth, my partner.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Well, no, both.
No, I don't think there'sanything wrong with being single
.
You can find happiness in beingsingle.
You can find wholeness in beingsingle.
Yet if you still have a desirein your heart to be single, then
Like celibacy For those in thepriesthood.
I have friends that areCatholic and so if you've been
called to celibacy, they feel itin their heart that this is
(05:11):
something I've been called to.
It's in my heart, but if theyhaven't, then they wouldn't
become Catholic and they'd go onto become a different
denomination and serve the Lord,come a Lutheran pastor, come a
Lutheran, join us.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
We need a few more.
You can get married, but I meanPaul does talk about that in 1
Corinthians 7, where he it wasinteresting as I read the whole
chapter because he talks about,if you want to, paul's guidance
on marriage and singleness.
1 Corinthians 7 is where youfind it.
But for a lot of him, as youread it, he's given these sort
of very specific directions buta lot of it was shaped by the
(05:43):
fact that he really believed theend of time was coming.
He thought Jesus' return wasimminent, and so he said I think
it's best for you to stay asyou are.
Whether you're married, staymarried.
If you're single, stay single,because there's a lot of other
challenges coming.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He didn't know 1,900 years would pass.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yes, and so some of his guidance was shaped by that
understanding of what was comingContext.
But I do think so.
Let's talk about singleness fora little bit, mo, and then we
can shift over to the marriageside.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Do you want to oh?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
you got another assumption.
Well, one of the other thingsthat I think an assumption is
from married folks is for singlepeople is you have a level of
freedom.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
As a single person, to sort of do what you choose to
do, and I'm not going to themarried ball and chain sort of
thing, but you're inaccountability with another
partner.
I am with my wife, with Connie,and so before I go do something
I really should be checking inwith Connie and vice versa,
whereas I think sometimes— Dudethat you're out for everything.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I wish I had a spouse just to be like.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I'm going to have to check with my husband, tell him
that I can be like Connie, Itotally blamed you for saying no
, but here's where you can lookat it from different sides.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
You look at it as an out and married couples.
look at it well, you have thefreedom to sort of choose to do
An assumption is that becausewe're single we have all the
time in the world, whichactually I want to counter that
and say we probably have lesstime than married couples,
(07:25):
because you end a meeting at 10at night and you get to go home
and I'm sure the dog's been letout and there might be food made
already and all that good stuffI get.
I don't even get to get home.
I have to stop at the jewelbecause it's the only place open
.
I have to grab something thatif I didn't have milk for in the
morning or whatever I need, Igo home.
I have to take out the dog.
I have to.
There's all these things thatcause you don't have anyone else
there to help do those things.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh, I agree with that .
I don't think if marriedcouples, married people think
single people have it easier,they forget that as a married
couple, ideally you're a teamand you know, and some people
are.
You know one person's takingout the garbage and one person's
doing the laundry, and you know, and you divide up some of
those responsibilities, whereasa single person you've got all
(08:06):
of them.
Yeah, so I that makes sense tome.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, so I feel like we have less time and we still
desire intimacy andrelationships, and so it's also
like scheduling, gettingtogether with friends and having
to coordinate with all theirschedules, and so it is.
It feels so extra like a lot ofwork.
Yeah, time-wise.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, the only advantage you don't have to
check in with anyone.
You can just initiate and dothat.
But I think you're right thatthere is more work, there are
more tasks to do, because it'sone person versus two splitting
up tasks.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But then you get that cool out, because you could
always blame your spouse Likewish I could.
But my wife said we havesomething else going on.
Okay, so what?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
you're saying is you need other good excuses to have
that?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
married people can use.
I know All those married peopleare so jealous.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
But let's bring it back also within the church.
Yeah, and so what do you think,what do you see as other
assumptions that you thinkmarried people have of single
people within the church?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So like assumptions of single people, Well, well,
time was definitely one umsomething wrong.
Something must be wrong with us.
I think here's anotherassumption that we don't want to
be invited to things Like.
I think that married couplesassume, well, oh, she's single,
or he's single, like, why wouldhe want to come?
It's a bunch of couples thatare going to be there, or we
(09:30):
have our kids there, so we justdon't get invited.
Like, honestly, I've actuallybeen invited to something and
then, when I no longer had aboyfriend, I was uninvited.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
No way.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Like no joke, I was uninvited, I was literally text.
Well, now that you're notdating that person, you probably
won't be comfortable going tothis with everyone, since we're
all couples.
And I'm like, I just gotuninvited, I was, and that was
someone in the church, and soI'm.
(10:01):
You know, it was another fellowsister in Christ, and so I'm.
There must be this assumptionthat, like we don't want to be
around like your kids orfamilies, or which there's
nothing wrong with that Like Ilove, that, like I crave and
desire being around people andeven kids.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Well, you know, as you say that, mo, it's one of
the things that so struck mewith my daughter, who was living
in Houston for a number ofyears and part of her choice was
to rent a room in a familybecause she wanted community
around, she wanted to be, shedidn't want to have she.
Well, she's a high extrovertand just loved having people
around and wanted to be aroundcommunity, so it makes sense.
(10:41):
I I'm sorry that happened toyou.
And you know and and you knowand the question, and I think
it's a great reminder for us ascouples here.
If you're listening to this orwatching this, you know single
people actually like hangingaround with couples too.
It's not just singles want tohang with singles.
So let's make sure we'reextending those invites and
(11:01):
certainly not disinviting.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And I eat anything.
Just so you know, I'm not apicky eater, I'm super flexible.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
So why don't we shift over to married couples?
What are some of theassumptions that you have about
married couples, or what do youthink that are out there, Mo?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, like I mentioned earlier, definitely
that in the church.
But everyone puts on—I mean Iwish they didn't put on the
happy face, but often right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Actually I like that people put on the happy face.
They didn't put on the happyface but often right.
Actually I like that people puton the happy face.
I mean, we got to have someplaces to be real, but I don't
want everyone.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
But I get it because I've been, I've snapped off on
my kids in the car and then I'mlike smiling the minute hey
everybody, how you doing theminute you walk into church and
then you're like grinding yourteeth at your kids.
I don't know, teeth of yourkids, I don't know.
When it comes to marriedcouples within the church, I
(11:57):
think just that there seems tobe ministries sometimes that
feel like they're very centeredand focused on, sometimes,
couple things you mean like acouples ministry.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, but yes.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, we have a couples ministry right, and you
know, yes, yeah, like, we have acouples ministry right.
And here's the hard part inthat is that I'm at an age where
most of the people in thecouples ministry are around my
age, and so I genuinely want toget to know some of them a lot
more.
Yet I'm not a couple right.
So how does that work and whatdoes that you know?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
So how does that work and what does that?
You know Well, in my sense, isthe intention of a couples
ministry is to create a safe andhealthy place for couples to
connect with each other, grow intheir relationship.
Yeah, and I actually love thefact they brought you in to
teach on the Enneagram, as thatrelates to the couple
(12:52):
relationship, because I thinkpart of it was the idea of.
I think there are things thatwe could do as a church.
That is just about hey, peopleare gathering singular couples.
I think the couple's intentionwas just to help nurture that
relationship.
Where couples sometimes getpulled in a hundred directions,
(13:12):
here's a place to focus and betogether.
So one of the things you know Ididn't do it so much of
assumptions, but I thought sortof strengths of being married in
church and challenges that tome some of the strengths are you
do have someone to go home andtalk about faith questions with,
that you, you know, or that acouple goes home and they heard
(13:33):
you preach and said I heardPastor Mo say this, did you hear
her say that?
That you have that sort ofsounding board, that those can
be things.
You can also have someone whohelps hold you accountable in
your faith practice.
If you're sort of getting alittle lazy, I don't know that I
need to go to church.
If you're married to someonewho takes that seriously, come
on, we're going Okay.
(13:55):
That accountability within yourhome can be a gift and a
strength.
So I think that there are anumber of them as well as just
the practical.
You've got a wingman or awingwoman when you go to a
social setting and you've gotsomeone at your side like I
don't know anyone here, buthopefully she does, or vice
versa.
It also helps to widen yournetwork, I mean so I you know,
(14:19):
for a lot of couples, like awife might know these people, a
guy might know these, and sothey've, they sort of extend
their network in those ways.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, and I get it that, like usually, whatever
stage you are in life, that'skind of what you gravitate
towards, right?
So if you have kids, yougravitate other people who have
those kids' age.
If you're a married couple, youkind of gravitate towards
couples as well.
So I understand that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, I think one of the big challenges that I think
isn't recognized as much andstruggle how to talk about it
within the church is thatoftentimes couples are in
different places spiritually andin their own faith journey.
You know you will hear plentyof people who say like I was
(15:06):
only coming to church because mywife wanted me to come more
often that way than the other.
And so there's often can be thena tension in the marriage
around spiritual matters.
It can be as far as how do wego to worship and how regularly
do we get involved in ministry?
(15:27):
If one spouse is like I'll showup a couple times once a month,
but I don't want to be involvedin anything else, and the other
spouse is really wanting to,there's a tension there.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
As well as with people's financial giving or
their serving.
All of those can be placeswhere, when there isn't exact
alignment, the spiritual mattersbecome a place of tension
within the marriage yeah ratherthan as a binding.
You know, we were joking aboutlike oh yeah, we're gonna sit
down and pray before we fightyeah more often.
(15:58):
I sense that when people are indifferent places, that that can
be a real place of tension oh,struggle, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
But and I could say that's like anything though,
when you're in a relationshipwith someone, it could be
politics, it it could be, butdefinitely spiritually too.
And I'm going to hit onsomething that I know probably
no one really wants to hear.
But there is something.
There is this idea that I feel,and other single friends,
especially those within thechurch, working within the
church somehow or attending thatit's just better to be married
(16:31):
period, like because and I wastold this even, you know, before
seminary, as I was enteringseminary that, like you know,
even professors would say, likeyou should really find someone.
It's probably gonna be easierto get a job once you're married
.
You know you might havedifficulty getting a job since
you're not married, type ofthing.
(16:52):
And at that time, and I rememberfeeling like this sense of like
, oh, maybe I should marry theperson I'm with, maybe I should
like that I'm dating, you know,going to be like on pursuit
(17:14):
within the church for a partner,and that's not how single
people look at the church, likewhoa, who's, I'm, like, who's
here to date, like that's not.
It's to be in community withpeople, it's to be they're my
brothers and sisters in Christmarried and unmarried, and it's
a gift to be in relationshipwith all of them.
(17:35):
And so and we're called to betogether and grow together is,
oh, that you know, like you'resomehow in pursuit of a partner,
so much so that, like anythinggoes, like anybody would be an
(17:56):
opportunity to pursue.
It's weird, but I've had otherfriends who are in the church
say that they had that samesense and that's why they
thought they weren't invited tothings.
Or, you know, people feltthreatened in certain situations
, like I'm not sure I want youpartnering in this ministry with
that person because they'resingle.
Like married couples have saidthat to each other in situations
(18:19):
where they may have been calledto be a team lead with somebody
who was single but they weremarried.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
That's, you know, and this is where, to me, we have
to operate out of the integrityof our own calling with Jesus
and our own sense of what he issaying in our lives, and so,
(18:47):
partnering with single or withmarried folks, I mean, I think
there are certain things that weneed to do, but I think it's
not so much single or married asmuch as just are we putting up
healthy boundaries?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
around things.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
But to me the idea of someone that a single person
can't partner with someone who'smarried in a ministry area,
that's too bad.
That really is, because we'refollowers of Jesus together and
we got to figure out how to dothis together.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Absolutely, and I think there's much to be learned
and I love I personally lovebeing partnered with married
couples, because or someone whois married with different things
, because I get to learn so muchabout relationships right
Without having to be in one.
Having been married before, Iknow just how difficult it is to
really let your marriage looklike your relationship with God,
(19:42):
and it's incredibly hard andit's character-refining Like
nothing more so than parentingabsolutely because there's a
power dynamic there, right, andso, yeah, I know just how hard
that can be.
So there definitely arechallenges as well.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Okay, that can be, so theredefinitely are challenges as
well.
It's.
Yeah, I mean, I think this isan important area and I don't
know if we've you know, in these20 minutes we've talked about
all the important things, butI'm glad we just engaged this
topic and maybe we have to talkwith some others about it too,
because I think it's important,because we need to treat each
(20:20):
other as fully completeindividuals, whether we're
single or whether we're married.
Yeah, and open to the fact thatsome single people are looking
for a relationship and somesingle people are very
comfortable in being single atthis time and feeling complete
in that way, and that it's notlike there's an incompleteness
(20:43):
in that, and not beingthreatening one way or the other
, how do we just see each otheras people?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Absolutely.
And what does it mean, as thechurch, to create spaces, right,
that are really inviting forthose who are singles as well?
Not, like you know, a lot ofsingle ministries have kind of
been viewed as this, like datingspace, you know, rather than
maybe like opportunities ofgoing and doing outings together
(21:12):
and just doing life together incommunity in fun ways and just
sharing in our life season,right, what it means to be
single and all the perks andchallenges with that.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You bet and the perks and challenges in being married
and following Jesus in that andbeing in the church.
So well, hopefully we stirredsome thoughts inside of you and
maybe even a little moreawareness.
And I just want to say tocouples out there part of what I
heard Pastor Mo saying is let'snot overlook the single people
around us and, as marriedcouples to go, how are we
(21:51):
inviting them in and includingthem as a part of the community
here and so the churches don'tbecome so couple-focused that
singles feel on the out?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, and I'd love to hear honestly what your
experience has been like if youare single and or married within
the church and some of thosechallenges, because this is
something, as leaders in thechurch, that we really have to
just keep wrestling with and geta deeper understanding of, as
we are experiencing more couplesor people who have been married
(22:21):
no longer, and what this dancelooks like of married and
singles together in the churchNext time on Unpacking Truths.
That's why King David was a manafter God's own heart, because
he was always searching himselfand getting real with himself
and being honest and being likethis is where I've fallen short.
I'm so sorry, like I need tocorrect me.
(22:43):
Our job is never to fix otherpeople, never to save other
people.
That's God's, that's God'sresponsibility and their
responsibility.
Our job is to look like love andcompassion and mercy and
forgiveness and nonjudgment andGod's presence in the world.
That's our responsibility.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
And I think it's also .
If there are situations wherewe are put in, we are in
relationship with someone whoreally sees things differently
and they keep coming at us aboutit, it's okay to just simply
say I don't think this ishealthy, or to simply say, hey,
let's agree.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Can we say I don't think you're healthy, well, no
that isn't nice.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I don't think this is healthy.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I mean, this isn't healthy, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Thanks for tuning in.
If anything we said brought upany questions or ideas, let's
keep the conversation going inthe comments below or email us
at unpackingtruths atlocchurchcom.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
And don't forget to like, share and subscribe so we
can continue helping peopleunpack God's truth for their
lives.
All right.
So Pastor Kendall and I thoughtit would be fun if we talked
about some assumptions, someweaknesses and some strengths
found within the church, whetheryou are married, like Pastor
Kendall, or single, like myself.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi, I'm Pastor Kendall.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
And I'm Pastor Mo and we are Unpacking Truths.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Where we unpack God's Word and God's truth for life.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
today, everyone is seeking, and we're here to help
you find hope and power in God'struth for life.
Today, everyone is seeking, andwe're here to help you find
hope and power in God's word.
So let's get started on that.
What are some assumptionswithin the church?
You think about married andsingle people?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Great question.
Well, I think we have all sortsof different assumptions.
I mean, I think one of them wewere talking about just before
this, when we came in the ideathat when we come into the
worshiping community, when we'reshowing up to something, we
usually have a smile on our face.
We're out in public, we'reputting on our best face, so we
all see each other with our bestface on, at least at first
glance.
So, you see a couple walking ingoing.
(01:00):
they're smiling, you're goingwow they are a perfectly married
couple, they must have it alltogether, and so we assume that
they have it all together.
And then we sometimes look atourselves and go maybe I don't,
but they do so I think that'sone of the assumptions you know
they're a Christian couple.
Yeah, they'll probably have itall together.
They never fight.
They get along well.
(01:20):
They raise perfect kids.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Jesus is at the center of every argument.
Yes, yes they pray before theyargue.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yes, yeah, let's get really angry with each other.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Hold on, let's hold hands and pray first.
Yeah, I can see myself doingthat.
No, I can't.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So that might be one assumption that everyone's
perfectly you know, marriagesare all in perfect shape.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So what about an assumption of single people?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, Something's wrong with us Like.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I can't yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Like I can't tell you how many people actually it
flows out of their mouth Um, whyare you single?
What's wrong, what's going onthat you're single and it's like
, well, I'm not sure anything'swrong at the moment, and I mean
lots are wrong, but I'm not sureit's the fact I'm single.
(02:11):
And so there's this idea that Idon't know if it's just
culturally or also within thechurch, I'm sure within the
church as well that to have agood life is to be married.
The norm is to be married.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Which is interesting, mo, because in our culture the
percent of the adult populationthat is single continues to rise
.
I've seen that more and more.
It's up to some.
I wish I should have checked itbefore we came in.
I didn't think of that, my headdidn't go to that, but it is.
I mean, if anything the churchhas to figure out, what does it
mean to be a church where-.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Culture is shifting and I did look up some stats
because I was like, yeah, wheredid this come from?
And so I saw that in the 1950s,the average age to marry was 20
for females and 23 for males,and in 2020, it jumped to 28 for
females and 31 for males, andso there's an age shift.
There's a thing happening whereeven older generations within
(03:10):
the church are like what's wrongwith them?
They're 30 and not married,whereas that's kind of becoming
the cultural norm too.
So we're getting a lot ofsingles in the church.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes, so you know, when we were talking about
assumptions for single and I wasthinking about that I saw
assumptions going in both ways.
Yeah, that there are somepeople that I think see a single
person and assume they aresingle and they want to be
single for the rest of theirlives, that they like that,
really, like I've never gottenthat one, well, I think the and.
(03:44):
The other one, though, is likeoh, they're just looking for a
partner and and and.
So that, who can I set?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
them up with If they're looking for a partner.
Why don't you hook us up Like I?
I'm thinking like don't youhave like sons or cousins, or
you know brothers, like that's?
One really weird thing is that.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I just thought you said you were okay with being
single, though Now you're sayingyou're asking for.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Some people.
If that, that's anotherassumption.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Is this unpacking truth?
Dating app Is that what thisjust became?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
That's another assumption is that I've actually
had people also say like maybeyou've been given the gift of
singleness, and I'm like what isthat?
That's a gift.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I was like I mean not that, that's not a gift, Like
some people talk about it as agift though, when you want that
in your heart, then wouldn't yoube like I am very content being
single.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I love this life, I feel called to it, but just
because you are single doesn'tmean you've been given some
spiritual gift of singleness.
I that doesn't.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
No, it makes sense.
I'm just trying to figure outif you're talking out of both
sides of your mouth, my partner.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Well, no, both.
No, I don't think there'sanything wrong with being single
.
You can find happiness in beingsingle.
You can find wholeness in beingsingle.
Yet if you still have a desirein your heart to be single, then
Like celibacy For those in thepriesthood.
I have friends that areCatholic and so if you've been
called to celibacy, they feel itin their heart that this is
(05:11):
something I've been called to.
It's in my heart, but if theyhaven't, then they wouldn't
become Catholic and they'd go onto become a different
denomination and serve the Lord,come a Lutheran pastor, come a
Lutheran, join us.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
We need a few more.
You can get married, but I meanPaul does talk about that in 1
Corinthians 7, where he it wasinteresting as I read the whole
chapter because he talks about,if you want to, paul's guidance
on marriage and singleness.
1 Corinthians 7 is where youfind it.
But for a lot of him, as youread it, he's given these sort
of very specific directions buta lot of it was shaped by the
(05:43):
fact that he really believed theend of time was coming.
He thought Jesus' return wasimminent, and so he said I think
it's best for you to stay asyou are.
Whether you're married, staymarried.
If you're single, stay single,because there's a lot of other
challenges coming.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He didn't know 1,900 years would pass.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yes, and so some of his guidance was shaped by that
understanding of what was comingContext.
But I do think so.
Let's talk about singleness fora little bit, mo, and then we
can shift over to the marriageside.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Do you want to oh?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
you got another assumption.
Well, one of the other thingsthat I think an assumption is
from married folks is for singlepeople is you have a level of
freedom.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
As a single person, to sort of do what you choose to
do, and I'm not going to themarried ball and chain sort of
thing, but you're inaccountability with another
partner.
I am with my wife, with Connie,and so before I go do something
I really should be checking inwith Connie and vice versa,
whereas I think sometimes— Dudethat you're out for everything.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I wish I had a spouse just to be like.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I'm going to have to check with my husband, tell him
that I can be like Connie, Itotally blamed you for saying no
, but here's where you can lookat it from different sides.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
You look at it as an out and married couples.
look at it well, you have thefreedom to sort of choose to do
An assumption is that becausewe're single we have all the
time in the world, whichactually I want to counter that
and say we probably have lesstime than married couples,
(07:25):
because you end a meeting at 10at night and you get to go home
and I'm sure the dog's been letout and there might be food made
already and all that good stuffI get.
I don't even get to get home.
I have to stop at the jewelbecause it's the only place open
.
I have to grab something thatif I didn't have milk for in the
morning or whatever I need, Igo home.
I have to take out the dog.
I have to.
There's all these things thatcause you don't have anyone else
there to help do those things.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh, I agree with that .
I don't think if marriedcouples, married people think
single people have it easier,they forget that as a married
couple, ideally you're a teamand you know, and some people
are.
You know one person's takingout the garbage and one person's
doing the laundry, and you know, and you divide up some of
those responsibilities, whereasa single person you've got all
(08:06):
of them.
Yeah, so I that makes sense tome.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, so I feel like we have less time and we still
desire intimacy andrelationships, and so it's also
like scheduling, gettingtogether with friends and having
to coordinate with all theirschedules, and so it is.
It feels so extra like a lot ofwork.
Yeah, time-wise.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, the only advantage you don't have to
check in with anyone.
You can just initiate and dothat.
But I think you're right thatthere is more work, there are
more tasks to do, because it'sone person versus two splitting
up tasks.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But then you get that cool out, because you could
always blame your spouse Likewish I could.
But my wife said we havesomething else going on.
Okay, so what?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
you're saying is you need other good excuses to have
that?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
married people can use.
I know All those married peopleare so jealous.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
But let's bring it back also within the church.
Yeah, and so what do you think,what do you see as other
assumptions that you thinkmarried people have of single
people within the church?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So like assumptions of single people, Well, well,
time was definitely one umsomething wrong.
Something must be wrong with us.
I think here's anotherassumption that we don't want to
be invited to things Like.
I think that married couplesassume, well, oh, she's single,
or he's single, like, why wouldhe want to come?
It's a bunch of couples thatare going to be there, or we
(09:30):
have our kids there, so we justdon't get invited.
Like, honestly, I've actuallybeen invited to something and
then, when I no longer had aboyfriend, I was uninvited.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
No way.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Like no joke, I was uninvited, I was literally text.
Well, now that you're notdating that person, you probably
won't be comfortable going tothis with everyone, since we're
all couples.
And I'm like, I just gotuninvited, I was, and that was
someone in the church, and soI'm.
(10:01):
You know, it was another fellowsister in Christ, and so I'm.
There must be this assumptionthat, like we don't want to be
around like your kids orfamilies, or which there's
nothing wrong with that Like Ilove, that, like I crave and
desire being around people andeven kids.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Well, you know, as you say that, mo, it's one of
the things that so struck mewith my daughter, who was living
in Houston for a number ofyears and part of her choice was
to rent a room in a familybecause she wanted community
around, she wanted to be, shedidn't want to have she.
Well, she's a high extrovertand just loved having people
around and wanted to be aroundcommunity, so it makes sense.
(10:41):
I I'm sorry that happened toyou.
And you know and and you knowand the question, and I think
it's a great reminder for us ascouples here.
If you're listening to this orwatching this, you know single
people actually like hangingaround with couples too.
It's not just singles want tohang with singles.
So let's make sure we'reextending those invites and
(11:01):
certainly not disinviting.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And I eat anything.
Just so you know, I'm not apicky eater, I'm super flexible.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
So why don't we shift over to married couples?
What are some of theassumptions that you have about
married couples, or what do youthink that are out there, Mo?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, like I mentioned earlier, definitely
that in the church.
But everyone puts on—I mean Iwish they didn't put on the
happy face, but often right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Actually I like that people put on the happy face.
They didn't put on the happyface but often right.
Actually I like that people puton the happy face.
I mean, we got to have someplaces to be real, but I don't
want everyone.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
But I get it because I've been, I've snapped off on
my kids in the car and then I'mlike smiling the minute hey
everybody, how you doing theminute you walk into church and
then you're like grinding yourteeth at your kids.
I don't know, teeth of yourkids, I don't know.
When it comes to marriedcouples within the church, I
(11:57):
think just that there seems tobe ministries sometimes that
feel like they're very centeredand focused on, sometimes,
couple things you mean like acouples ministry.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, but yes.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, we have a couples ministry right, and you
know, yes, yeah, like, we have acouples ministry right.
And here's the hard part inthat is that I'm at an age where
most of the people in thecouples ministry are around my
age, and so I genuinely want toget to know some of them a lot
more.
Yet I'm not a couple right.
So how does that work and whatdoes that you know?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
So how does that work and what does that?
You know Well, in my sense, isthe intention of a couples
ministry is to create a safe andhealthy place for couples to
connect with each other, grow intheir relationship.
Yeah, and I actually love thefact they brought you in to
teach on the Enneagram, as thatrelates to the couple
(12:52):
relationship, because I thinkpart of it was the idea of.
I think there are things thatwe could do as a church.
That is just about hey, peopleare gathering singular couples.
I think the couple's intentionwas just to help nurture that
relationship.
Where couples sometimes getpulled in a hundred directions,
(13:12):
here's a place to focus and betogether.
So one of the things you know Ididn't do it so much of
assumptions, but I thought sortof strengths of being married in
church and challenges that tome some of the strengths are you
do have someone to go home andtalk about faith questions with,
that you, you know, or that acouple goes home and they heard
(13:33):
you preach and said I heardPastor Mo say this, did you hear
her say that?
That you have that sort ofsounding board, that those can
be things.
You can also have someone whohelps hold you accountable in
your faith practice.
If you're sort of getting alittle lazy, I don't know that I
need to go to church.
If you're married to someonewho takes that seriously, come
on, we're going Okay.
(13:55):
That accountability within yourhome can be a gift and a
strength.
So I think that there are anumber of them as well as just
the practical.
You've got a wingman or awingwoman when you go to a
social setting and you've gotsomeone at your side like I
don't know anyone here, buthopefully she does, or vice
versa.
It also helps to widen yournetwork, I mean so I you know,
(14:19):
for a lot of couples, like awife might know these people, a
guy might know these, and sothey've, they sort of extend
their network in those ways.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, and I get it that, like usually, whatever
stage you are in life, that'skind of what you gravitate
towards, right?
So if you have kids, yougravitate other people who have
those kids' age.
If you're a married couple, youkind of gravitate towards
couples as well.
So I understand that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, I think one of the big challenges that I think
isn't recognized as much andstruggle how to talk about it
within the church is thatoftentimes couples are in
different places spiritually andin their own faith journey.
You know you will hear plentyof people who say like I was
(15:06):
only coming to church because mywife wanted me to come more
often that way than the other.
And so there's often can be thena tension in the marriage
around spiritual matters.
It can be as far as how do wego to worship and how regularly
do we get involved in ministry?
(15:27):
If one spouse is like I'll showup a couple times once a month,
but I don't want to be involvedin anything else, and the other
spouse is really wanting to,there's a tension there.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
As well as with people's financial giving or
their serving.
All of those can be placeswhere, when there isn't exact
alignment, the spiritual mattersbecome a place of tension
within the marriage yeah ratherthan as a binding.
You know, we were joking aboutlike oh yeah, we're gonna sit
down and pray before we fightyeah more often.
(15:58):
I sense that when people are indifferent places, that that can
be a real place of tension oh,struggle, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
But and I could say that's like anything though,
when you're in a relationshipwith someone, it could be
politics, it it could be, butdefinitely spiritually too.
And I'm going to hit onsomething that I know probably
no one really wants to hear.
But there is something.
There is this idea that I feel,and other single friends,
especially those within thechurch, working within the
church somehow or attending thatit's just better to be married
(16:31):
period, like because and I wastold this even, you know, before
seminary, as I was enteringseminary that, like you know,
even professors would say, likeyou should really find someone.
It's probably gonna be easierto get a job once you're married
.
You know you might havedifficulty getting a job since
you're not married, type ofthing.
(16:52):
And at that time, and I rememberfeeling like this sense of like
, oh, maybe I should marry theperson I'm with, maybe I should
like that I'm dating, you know,going to be like on pursuit
(17:14):
within the church for a partner,and that's not how single
people look at the church, likewhoa, who's, I'm, like, who's
here to date, like that's not.
It's to be in community withpeople, it's to be they're my
brothers and sisters in Christmarried and unmarried, and it's
a gift to be in relationshipwith all of them.
(17:35):
And so and we're called to betogether and grow together is,
oh, that you know, like you'resomehow in pursuit of a partner,
so much so that, like anythinggoes, like anybody would be an
(17:56):
opportunity to pursue.
It's weird, but I've had otherfriends who are in the church
say that they had that samesense and that's why they
thought they weren't invited tothings.
Or, you know, people feltthreatened in certain situations
, like I'm not sure I want youpartnering in this ministry with
that person because they'resingle.
Like married couples have saidthat to each other in situations
(18:19):
where they may have been calledto be a team lead with somebody
who was single but they weremarried.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
That's, you know, and this is where, to me, we have
to operate out of the integrityof our own calling with Jesus
and our own sense of what he issaying in our lives, and so,
(18:47):
partnering with single or withmarried folks, I mean, I think
there are certain things that weneed to do, but I think it's
not so much single or married asmuch as just are we putting up
healthy boundaries?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
around things.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
But to me the idea of someone that a single person
can't partner with someone who'smarried in a ministry area,
that's too bad.
That really is, because we'refollowers of Jesus together and
we got to figure out how to dothis together.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Absolutely, and I think there's much to be learned
and I love I personally lovebeing partnered with married
couples, because or someone whois married with different things
, because I get to learn so muchabout relationships right
Without having to be in one.
Having been married before, Iknow just how difficult it is to
really let your marriage looklike your relationship with God,
(19:42):
and it's incredibly hard andit's character-refining Like
nothing more so than parentingabsolutely because there's a
power dynamic there, right, andso, yeah, I know just how hard
that can be.
So there definitely arechallenges as well.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Okay, that can be, so theredefinitely are challenges as
well.
It's.
Yeah, I mean, I think this isan important area and I don't
know if we've you know, in these20 minutes we've talked about
all the important things, butI'm glad we just engaged this
topic and maybe we have to talkwith some others about it too,
because I think it's important,because we need to treat each
(20:20):
other as fully completeindividuals, whether we're
single or whether we're married.
Yeah, and open to the fact thatsome single people are looking
for a relationship and somesingle people are very
comfortable in being single atthis time and feeling complete
in that way, and that it's notlike there's an incompleteness
(20:43):
in that, and not beingthreatening one way or the other
, how do we just see each otheras people?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Absolutely.
And what does it mean, as thechurch, to create spaces, right,
that are really inviting forthose who are singles as well?
Not, like you know, a lot ofsingle ministries have kind of
been viewed as this, like datingspace, you know, rather than
maybe like opportunities ofgoing and doing outings together
(21:12):
and just doing life together incommunity in fun ways and just
sharing in our life season,right, what it means to be
single and all the perks andchallenges with that.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You bet and the perks and challenges in being married
and following Jesus in that andbeing in the church.
So well, hopefully we stirredsome thoughts inside of you and
maybe even a little moreawareness.
And I just want to say tocouples out there part of what I
heard Pastor Mo saying is let'snot overlook the single people
around us and, as marriedcouples to go, how are we
(21:51):
inviting them in and includingthem as a part of the community
here and so the churches don'tbecome so couple-focused that
singles feel on the out?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, and I'd love to hear honestly what your
experience has been like if youare single and or married within
the church and some of thosechallenges, because this is
something, as leaders in thechurch, that we really have to
just keep wrestling with and geta deeper understanding of, as
we are experiencing more couplesor people who have been married
(22:21):
no longer, and what this dancelooks like of married and
singles together in the churchNext time on Unpacking Truths.
That's why King David was a manafter God's own heart, because
he was always searching himselfand getting real with himself
and being honest and being likethis is where I've fallen short.
I'm so sorry, like I need tocorrect me.
(22:43):
Our job is never to fix otherpeople, never to save other
people.
That's God's, that's God'sresponsibility and their
responsibility.
Our job is to look like love andcompassion and mercy and
forgiveness and nonjudgment andGod's presence in the world.
That's our responsibility.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
And I think it's also .
If there are situations wherewe are put in, we are in
relationship with someone whoreally sees things differently
and they keep coming at us aboutit, it's okay to just simply
say I don't think this ishealthy, or to simply say, hey,
let's agree.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Can we say I don't think you're healthy, well, no
that isn't nice.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I don't think this is healthy.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I mean, this isn't healthy, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Thanks for tuning in.
If anything we said brought upany questions or ideas, let's
keep the conversation going inthe comments below or email us
at unpackingtruths atlocchurchcom.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
And don't forget to like, share and subscribe so we
can continue helping peopleunpack God's truth for their
lives.
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