January 14, 2025 • 40 mins
This episode offers a deep dive into the raw and unfiltered experiences of recovery, showcasing the personal journeys of Kristen and David as they navigate the complexities of sobriety. Their candid discussions illuminate the importance of patience, accountability, and healthy relationships in fostering a successful recovery journey.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to.
Unpolished Recovery.
My name is Trey.
Most stories of recovery startwith how bad addiction was, how
an individual ended recovery andhow great life is now.
That's a polished story.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name's Chris.
I'm your co-host of UnpolishedRecovery.
I actually have two gueststoday, two alumni and graduates
of the program.
We have Kristen and David withus, so I appreciate you guys
coming on and last minute notice.
So how long have you been here,kristen?
I've been here almost sevenmonths, and Dave, how long?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I've been here for nine months.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So both of you've been graduated for at least a
few weeks now and kind of what'sdifferent today versus the day
you walked in?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
What's different about you?
Absolutely everything.
From when I first got here Iwas coming out of jail, I really
had no idea where I was goingto go, what I was really going
to do no job, no car, no money,absolutely no plan whatsoever
(01:08):
other than get to the halfwayhouse, and even that was a flop,
with its own difficulties ofwhen I was going to get out.
I wasn't sure I was surprisedby getting out.
So, uh, coming here, I justcame here and buckled down and
and kind of just took everythingliterally day by day and and to
just kind of do the right thingeach day so that the next day
would be better than the day Ihad before, and kind of work
through things.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Dave.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
What was?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
the question.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
What's different today versus the day you come in
?
Oh, that was the question.
Yeah, you're close enough.
Okay, cool.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
My attitude.
For one, I had a lot ofattitude and self-arrogance and
pride issues, and I'm able towork through those today instead
of act upon them.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I think it's crazy.
When I interview guys and stufflike that, I'm like, oh, this
one's got potential.
But I really don't know what'sgoing through that individual's
head.
You know what their process islike and I actually have told
you all before.
I did the program myself, so Iknow what that process is like
(02:13):
showing up, you don't knowanybody.
I don't know if I was halfexpecting it to be like jail and
the other half was liketreatment, but it was nothing
like I expected.
But you was the program whatyou expected or completely
different, or both was nothinglike I expected.
Was the program what youexpected or completely different
, or both?
Speaker 4 (02:28):
I think I had a fair idea of what things were going
to be like from being in yourclass when I was in jail.
Kind of an idea, but stillmind-blowingly different.
Look, when I first got here, Iwas given a certain amount of
freedom.
I'm actually really thankfulthat there are levels one, two
and three.
If I had been able to go to athree or alumni day, one out of
(02:49):
jail never would have made it.
There's just not a shot.
I just, I just wouldn't.
No, if I, if I, had beenallowed to drive day one, I'd
have been gone.
You know, I mean, I just.
But over time you just learn tolike, get along with people.
It becomes your environment.
You make friends, you findreasons why you're where you're
(03:09):
supposed to be and doing whatyou're supposed to be doing.
You, you start working thesteps.
You got things to do.
You know you can't run off.
You got responsibilities atsome point.
You know, I don't know, it'sjust, it kind of just happens to
.
You change just kind of one ofthose things where it just
happens and sometimes you lookback, go hey look, I changed.
You don't really even see itwhile it's going on, I think.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
What about you, Dave?
Anything that you, was it likewhat you expected or not.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
We spoke on the phone in February when I was
incarcerated and we kind of wentover some of the guidelines and
the rules of something that Iwould be agreeable to to come in
here.
And it was a change in pace iswhat it was.
The rules and the guidelinesstayed the same, but I had to
change the pace myself to bewilling to do that.
(03:53):
So it had a very an impact onmy life, the structure and the
rules and the guidelines.
It was like coming out of jailfresh into treatment and then
(04:16):
here and it was a heck of a hop.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Definitely an adjustment.
How long were you here when youactually?
How long did it take, I guess,to say like, hey man, things are
changing, things are gettingbetter, I'm right where I need
to be, or whatever that processwas for you?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I would have to say, after the 30-day blackout of
being on level one, it taught mea lot of patience that normally
I wouldn't have had.
I would have wanted to do whatI wanted to do and come to find
out those things are probablynot the best thing for me, so it
(04:55):
taught me to just sit down andlisten and be patient.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Kristen, you were nodding your head in agreement
about that 30-day window.
I kind of was.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I tell people the first 30 days is that bullshit?
Just do it.
Just just let it happen for you.
You know, don't fight thesystem, just just be where
you're supposed to be whenyou're supposed to be there, be
micromanaged, feel the pressureof the micromanaging system.
It's just part of the process.
You know, eventually you'll getinto a routine and things will
feel more comfortable.
But you know, give it 30 days.
(05:23):
You know, if you got to give it30 days, if you try, after two
weeks every guy sounds the samethey hate it, or it's the best
thing in the world.
You know they're already supergung ho.
They're going to graduatetomorrow.
They're ready now, you know.
Or they just hate it, you know.
But I tell them I'll justsettle in, give yourself, pace
yourself, take your time.
You know you got nothing buttime right now and just you're
at the only place I can think ofwhere you can actually work on
(05:44):
what you've got going on and andthe rest of the world kind of
just stops for a little while.
You know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
No one's rushing you.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Yeah, and they a lot of guys will come in and they
talk about they want to contacttheir family and do this and
that, and I tell them all thesame thing.
I said look to be there.
You're not able to help.
You're building yourself backup and even just talking to them
, all you're going to do is heartheir problems and what they've
got going on and Aunt Susie'ssick and all these different
things that you've got to dealwith.
And you need to deal with whatyou've got going on right now,
(06:13):
especially in that first 30 days.
So, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Now you guys come to us like two different routes.
Like you had mentioned, I teacha weekly class at the local
jail for just basic andintensive recovery and, dave,
you were referred to us and wejust got to talk on the phone.
Do you think that was anadvantage for you, kristen, to
be able to be in class and hearabout the program.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Even you know, when I was injail I really hadn't especially
had no idea what was going onLike this was the literally the
first lifeline I had seen.
While you know, since prior togoing to jail, you know, even
before months before I went tojail, I needed something had to
happen.
You know I was going to end updead, so but it was the first
lifeline and I just grabbed onto it and I think that guys who
(07:04):
appreciate that and see that Ican see we were talking earlier
about that I can see when thoseguys come in that they're
appreciative and they get it,you know, pretty quickly.
So, but yeah, but the class kindof set me up for success.
I had already worked some ofthe paperwork done steps one,
two and three on paper.
I've already had done a relapseprevention plan.
(07:24):
I didn't have to wait as asanction to do one, I had
already done one and it wasactually really helpful that I
had already done one.
I've used some of the stuffthat I actually wrote on that as
a part of my recovery and soyeah, so some of those things
that you did in the program arealso in treatment.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, I just now noticed that, because I didn't
know nothing about the BRICprogram.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, that's awesome.
The reason I was asking is,like so, from an outside
perspective, someone that worksfor the program, and I've had
interaction with both of you,like even though it was
different referral sources, youboth like came in like, hey,
what do I got to do?
I just want to do what I'msupposed to you.
Neither one of you ever had anymajor discipline issues.
(08:13):
Like you were learning theropes.
I had some petty, you knowroutes I can't remember there
were so few, but both of youhave, you know, done great.
You know, and I was telling Daveearlier like you fall in the
same category.
Like you're a positive, youhave a positive impact on our
program, new people coming in,because you know I might
(08:35):
interview them and I give themthe rundown mostly just so they
know the expectations.
You know, like it's not everyprogram, this is not for
everyone.
You really got to be willing togo to different lengths to be
able to get better here.
So it was just alwaysfascinating Like this person
(08:56):
come from here.
But they both did well.
Do you think, dave?
You mentioned that like goingahead and hitting the ground
running with recovery.
Do you think that was anadvantage for you coming in here
?
What?
Speaker 3 (09:07):
do you mean hitting the ground running?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Like you were already starting in treatment.
You had already started on stepwork, some of the things we do
here.
Did it better prepare you foryour time here?
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
how do I say that?
Let's see.
How do I say that?
Let's see?
It prepared me by going to themeetings and being able to sit
and fill out paperwork.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
And it got me comfortable starting to get in
touch with myself, kind of gotfamiliar with the recovery
mindset.
Right, yeah, you had mentionedbefore.
Had you ever been in, worked arecovery program prior to coming
to Restoration House?
No, what about you, kristen,had you?
Speaker 4 (09:55):
No, I haven't worked a recovery program.
I was sober.
I got sober the day they puthandcuffs on me and so You're an
idiot?
Yeah, exactly.
And so once you're in a wholequick digging situation, I was
in that situation and so I thinkmaybe my mind had already
(10:19):
started the recovery process.
I wasn't like detoxing and allthese things once I met Chris
and got into the BRIC program.
So I was ready for a change andI think that you know they talk
in the rooms about the gift ofdesperation.
I was there, you know, and Ithink that when, when you've
alienated the entire world andthere's nobody that is there to
help you and somebody says, hey,I have a plan, I have an idea,
(10:40):
why don't you try this?
You grab on.
You know what I mean.
And once you've, you know Iburned every bridge there was to
burn out there.
So I mean my options were none,you know.
So once I saw an option and Iwas like, okay, we're going to
have to do that.
That's where we're at, you know.
And then once I realized, bybeing in the program and stuff,
(11:05):
how many bridges I burned andhow many options I had taken
away from myself or removed inmy life based on my actions.
It made it a lot easier just tofall into the mold of doing
what's expected and and andconduct myself the way that I'm
expected to conduct myself theway I said I would when I came
here fun fact for listeners wehad started a conversation with
david and then technologyhijacked it, and then kristin
hijacked it, and now we havefour people.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
And now we have four people, but, david, you were
kind of sharing the same thingabout, like when you arrived,
you just became this sponge andI'd love for you to share that
again.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
All right.
Yeah, I guess when I came here,I didn't really know how to
live a successful life.
I came here I didn't reallyknow how to live a successful
life, so I had to be patient andtake suggestions, as they say,
and learn everything that Icould, because what I've been
(11:58):
doing hadn't been productive inlife.
It always led me to the samesituations, the same answers, me
to the same situations, thesame answers, and it just wasn't
working out.
So I got a sponsor.
I tried to do things on my ownand that was unsmart, because
what I did on my own got me here.
So I started listening, andthat's just pretty much the gist
(12:25):
of it.
I do things today with aconscious mind and the
repercussions are minimal in anegative manner anyways, and
that's where I'm at today really.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, that's a big deal to get to a place where the
risk you take when somethinggoes wrong that they're not dire
consequences absolutely yeah, Iwas actually uh, thinking about
that the other day.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
I was like, all right , what's the worst case scenario
?
I'm sober, I'm not going torelapse over anything that
happens today.
You know what I mean.
And it actually it providesfreedom and confidence to do
some things.
You know.
I know that I'm not going to doanything that's going to risk
what I've got going on.
So they're just minor things.
You know you can be friendly tosomebody at work you may not
normally talk to or take achance on making a friend with
(13:12):
somebody you don't see eye toeye with immediately or
something like that.
Because what's the worst casescenario?
You know I'm not going to useover it, I'm not going to
relapse over, I'm not going tojeopardize my program over it,
so I can take these chances andrisk, you know, having a little
more confidence than, say, whenI first got here I was very like
, okay, somebody would saysomething like yep, you and me
aren't going to be friends, I'mgoing to be over here doing this
thing, you know, and just kindof move different, you know.
(13:35):
But now it's a little more ableto help somebody else along.
I think no.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Absolutely Navigating life on life's terms.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
And I think too, it's learning responsible freedom.
We can do anything that we wantto, but not everything is
productive for us.
In the past, everything soundedlike a good idea until I got
called or I got locked up.
But I do think and I think themistakes that I—I tell people
all the time that the mistakes Imake today don't cost me three
to six years of my life.
(14:08):
The mistakes I learned todayare mostly learning experiences
Like okay, well, that didn'twork out.
Let me do it this way, so Idon't feel like my whole life's
in balance every day.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Yeah, it's a whole different set of consequences
when the worst thing I can sayis, well, yep, that happened,
yeah, and keep it moving.
You know like, yep, well, mybad, not gonna do that again,
let's learn, keep it moving, youknow, but it doesn't really.
There's no life cost, there'sno burning of the bridges
anymore or any of that stuff.
Yeah, it's definitely a truestory so I had I wanted to say
(14:43):
something about.
You had mentioned Chris, youhad said something about freedom
and the freedom to make choicesand things like that.
I can remember and this mightsound odd to somebody but the
scariest day that I had in theprogram was the day that I
downloaded the Uber app.
Before then I could makemistakes, but they were going to
be on a bus line, I was goingto be walking there, walking
back, whatever it was going tobe.
(15:04):
But I downloaded Uber and I waslike, oh, I can literally go
anywhere.
I was like I'm just going tostay home and sit this out for a
little while.
I'm not ready for it.
Like I can't emphasize enoughhow the levels I'm a huge fan, I
needed those levels Like, allright, I'm going to be home at
this time, even now, can stayout till 11.
Cool, I'll be in at 8 30.
I got some paperwork to do andthat's that's it for me.
You know, I just I justmoderated myself enough until I
(15:27):
could learn some life skillsagain to recognize problem areas
and just stay away from it andout of it.
So but yeah, freedom day was theday I downloaded uber and then
I bought a car and it wasn't abig shock, like I could have
gone everywhere the day beforebecause I had uber already, you
know.
So it was one of those freedomthings.
When I got a car I was like Icould go anywhere, yeah, but I
could do that the day before, soit really didn't have a
detrimental impact, like I knowthat it could have, you know.
(15:50):
But but on my relapseprevention plan even the one I
did in jail uh, on there was, um, uh, recognizing that when I
gain and get a lot of stuffmoney, car and stuff like that
to be weary of that kind ofstuff makes me want to go show
it off or go back to old hauntsand and look how good I'm doing
and all that.
So those are on my relapseprevention plan of things that I
(16:11):
have to be aware that that myego will take over and try to
get me to drive this place, thenI can't do it.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I'm not built like that, I'm just, I think, survive
it I think this is an obviousquestion, but have you always,
either of have you alwaysthought so much about the
decisions you're making?
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Never in my life, no I actually, I actually sat
melancholy for a while going,hey God, why didn't you give me
the ability to understandconsequences?
Like I really thought, like Idon't know, I just skated by so
much or felt like I was, youknow, until it all comes
crashing down.
I really was like there's noconsequences, like the
consequences have never beenhorrific until this last time,
(16:48):
losing everything and thentaking a good look at that.
But before that I mean I wasliterally like those rules don't
apply to me.
I mean, those apply to peoplewho can't bounce back.
You know so.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Is that the process that you would, you say, have
hit rock bottom, or?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
you know yes, I hope so that better have been rock
bottom.
I've always been good.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Once I hit that I just get a shovel, you know.
But I'm hoping those days areway behind me.
But we were talking about Dave,with recovery, like what are
some of the things you've gainedtoday from working a program?
You had said not really been ina work to program before and
then you started here.
What's some of the things youbelieve that that's given you?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I do have healthy relationships nowadays.
And then another thing myfamily is back into my life.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
And I don't know, Dave's family is in my life too.
I went to Thanksgiving withDave.
Yes, you can see me if you lookclosely at the photo.
I'm in the background.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You expressed that your family had separated
themselves from you.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Absolutely.
I came back from California tobe close to family, and my
family didn't want to haveanything to do with me, and so I
was homeless in my hometown,near my family, and so that was
probably my lowest point in myaddiction that I've ever had in
my life.
(18:15):
I came 2,500 miles home anddidn't have a home.
You fell farther away from them, I fell farther away from them,
fell farther away, exactly.
And then now I've got all thesefriends that tend to do right
and you know, hang out and havea good time.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
You had said before, kind of that process for you too
was like you stopped blamingeveryone else, like you just
like, hey, some accountability.
Like I'm the one my decisionsmade this way, I've got to do
something different.
Uh, you had mentioned thatearlier.
Uh, what about you?
Uh, kristen, what's some of thestuff that recoveries give you?
(18:57):
No, I, absolutely agree.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
It's usually dave's fault, yeah, no, um, uh, you
know what it's giving Dave'sfault.
No, you know what.
It's given me a confidencerather than an arrogance, like I
used to be able to walk aroundwith like a bravado, like things
weren't wrong, but they werereally were, you know.
But now I'm actually morecomfortable, you know, not just
kind of edging my way throughthings.
You know what my morality isback, that's something like I
(19:24):
really didn't care about therules.
I played fast and loose withthe rules my whole life, as far
back as I can remember, andbeing sober and having about 19
months clean and some stuffaccumulating and friends that I
trust and I like to be around.
I just never want to go back tothat and I think dishonesty
played such a huge role in mypast life that that'll eat me up
(19:48):
.
So now, if you know, dave is myfriend, you know, if there's
something that I don't like thathe's done or whatever, we just
talk about it.
You know, I would have neverdone that before.
I would have just chalked it,you know, and it would have just
been like I would have put adistance between us, you know.
And then over time thatdistance gets greater and
greater.
But now my friendships arereally important to me.
So I want that gap to be closed.
(20:09):
You know I don't want thosethings anymore.
And, um, sometimes dave is mytest dummy, you know, like I
don't know, I'll just, yeah,I'll have conversations with him
, be like, hey, I don't reallylike this, you know.
And then you know sit down andtalk about, you know,
accountability and what my roleis in it and those things are
actually important to me.
You know, not not putting it onsomebody else.
You know for me to really kindof do what I'm supposed to be
(20:31):
doing on my side of the street,really, I think.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Well, in early recovery relationships, you know
is a big part.
There's a fine line could goeither way.
You know you can get you hopeto get hooked up with the right
people.
They're like-minded, seriousabout recovery.
And then there's theindividuals that are just doing
what they have to and that'sjust where they're at.
It's not a judgment thing.
But how do you determine that?
(20:55):
I mean, is it, like you said,especially in this program, you
guys being alumni serving aspeer leaders, like you see
people come in like for your ownrecovery, do you keep a
distance until you know they'veproven they're safe?
Or like, how do you navigatethrough that?
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I think I think generally by gauging somebody's
response to my healthyboundaries, like I have, you
know, things that matter to meand their response, in the way
they interact with me, once theyunderstand what matters to me,
kind of really tells me whatthey're about.
You know, if my boundariesaren't important to somebody
else, then you know, I keep mydistance.
(21:34):
You know, and don't get mewrong.
I mean I have kept my distancefrom a couple of people who have
just gained in growth here andstuff like that over time, you
know, and I reevaluated thosefriendships, you know.
But yeah, what?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
about you, Dave?
What do you do to try tonavigate through that?
Speaker 3 (21:53):
It boils down to the amount of effort that I see
people putting in.
If it progresses, I'm willingto stick around.
You know, because it tookeffort for me, so I had to put
effort in and somebody seenprogress in me and they stuck
around.
So as long as I see somebodytrying to do something to better
(22:16):
themselves, you know I'll stickaround and help you out any way
I can.
Okay, Because that's whatsomebody did for me.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I've noticed too that if somebody doesn't really talk
about recovery in like normalsituations that they have going
on in their life, I kind of shyaway from them.
Maybe it's just the stage whereI'm at right now.
But like me, dave and a few ofour other friends we talk about,
we try to recovery everything.
He'll say say, hey, do you wantto hear it from the recovery
(22:47):
point of view?
Yeah, hit me with it.
You know, it's just kind of howour conversations go.
You know, it's kind of whatwe're into and if, if that
embracing a lifestyle right, andif it doesn't seem like
somebody else is like ready toembrace that lifestyle, for
whatever reasons they have goingon, I can feel myself putting a
little distance between myselfand them too.
It's you know.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I'm curious how uh those, since you're both in
program leadership now, how younavigate that distance while
fulfilling your role in insupporting other people in their
recovery journey.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
A lot of issues are just simply a black and white
issue.
When you're, when you're, youknow uh, uh, they're written
down.
Thankfully, it's not my opinion, it's not my choices.
These you know.
Everybody here has signed apiece of paper saying that they
wanted to be here and that theywere going to follow certain
guidelines and and my job as alead is, when they don't follow
those guidelines, to point themout and and and go from there.
(23:38):
Um, on the other hand, thosesometimes you also want to help
them work through some stuff,and that can be a little tricky
because now you're entering inyour opinion, into things and
it's they're two very differentthings.
My opinion of something and therules can be very different.
They're not often, but they canbe very different.
You know, I can understandsomebody's perspective or why
(23:59):
they did what they did and andfeel for them and be
compassionate for them.
On the other hand, you brokethe rules.
It's not up to me.
The rules are written the waythey're written.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, I'm guessing their response to that kind of
dictates how much just moralsupport you can provide.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
It really does.
It really does and and you knowwhat, uh uh, sometimes people
come here and they have somestruggles and they, they really
get through it and they justbecome really great participants
and so you can't tell.
You just can't tell.
I mean, first, 30 days aretough on everybody, I think,
when they get here and you can'treally sort out who somebody is
going to be long term.
(24:33):
And it's also another thing togive everybody the opportunity
to not be the person they werewhen they got here.
If you, if you just stick themto whatever box you put them in
when they get here, or evenafter a month or two months or
three months, you're not reallygiving them a fair chance to
grow and you're not reallyaccepting the world for what the
world is at that time.
I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, and Dave, is it hard to protect yourself and
still do the duties of being apeer leader?
Because that's what it isYou're helping guys with the
stuff that you learned.
Is that difficult?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
The challenges that I navigate with being a lead and
being in recovery is sometimesthe rules and recovery go hand
in hand and sometimes they don't, and sometimes you've just got
to do what's on the piece ofpaper and make sure everything's
lined up accordingly, and onceyou do that, other things will
(25:30):
line up.
My opinions are opinions and Istate these are my opinions, or
you know what I'm saying, butyou're going to do what you're
going to do, regardless of thesituation, whether I reread the
rules to you or I give you anopinion, you're still going to
do what you're going to do,regardless of the situation.
whether that's reread the rulesto you or I give you an opinion,
you're still going to do whatyou want to do.
So that's how I kind ofnavigate those things.
(25:50):
I try not to make any decisionthat I don't know for a fact.
If I don't know for a fact, Ialways call, because my pride
and my arrogance will get in theway and I'll think I know
something or I'll do somethingout of my ego or something like
that, and I have to call and belike, hey, am I making the right
(26:11):
decision, you know?
And they'll be like, yes,that's the same thing.
We would have told them.
Okay, cool, then I know, thenI've given out good information.
But I still call and make sure.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
You think it's easier to ask for help today versus,
say, when you come in?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
I thought I was going to comein and do these things on my own
and sail through this programand it'd be easy, until I
figured out that it's not.
It's a definite change in life.
It's a change in pace ineverything that you do, my
behaviors, my thoughts, like Istill have messed up thoughts at
(26:51):
times and I have to reallyunderstand that those are just
thoughts, Like I've had thoughtsof man today's not going well
at work.
I'm just going to leave, I'vegot paid vacation time, what do
I do?
Ten minutes later I'm like I'mjust going to stay at work.
You know what I mean?
It takes me time to recheckmyself and I can't always do
(27:16):
that, especially with any kindof narcotics or anything like
that in my system substances.
But I guess that's how Inavigate most of my days, or I
call somebody else and they'llhelp me navigate it.
So it works out.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I tell people all the time that learning a new way
isn't centered around not usinga drink.
It's that I'm dealing with lifedifferently than I ever have
before.
I'm willing to ask for help.
That was the hardest thing forme.
Coming in Early recovery islike.
If I'm asking for help, doesthat mean I'm not as serious?
(27:56):
Does that mean that I'm weak,or does it mean I'm not going to
make it?
All these things I get in myhead that disease riddled brain
I have.
It'll distort my view of things, and I depend on other people
to kind of help me sort that out.
So do you believe today thatyou've got the people around you
to help you do that?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
I believe.
So I know that I've struggledwith now and more recently now
that I've graduated the programand stuff where for some reason
in my head at first it makes itharder for me to ask for help.
I feel like I should know someshit, you know.
But then then I'll take amoment and realize, ok, I do
need to ask these questions, Ineed to find out.
(28:39):
And again, when it's programrelated, it's it's not my
opinion.
A lot of times it's it's theway the program set up.
You know, it's just a matter ofgetting clarity for what the
rules are and stuff.
But but my opinions, you know, Iwill bounce them off of friends
.
Now I have friends that I cantrust their ideas and their
opinions Ninety nine percent ofthe time, and so that's really
(29:02):
nice to have.
89% of the time and um, sothat's really nice to have.
Um, it can really help centerme and and get me out of myself
and realize that I'm not in thisby myself or doing this alone.
I think that's a big portion ofit too, is is we're not doing
this alone by any means.
You know, uh, yeah, I reallyhave um, sympathy and empathy
for guys that come here and theydon't get a band of people put
(29:24):
together that they feel likethey can trust and work with and
ask questions and bounce ideasoff and and get good feedback
from.
I think that's been crucial.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
for me, it really has been yeah, I still don't like
asking for him, I still don'tlike it.
But I have to reason myself andtell myself hey right,
something I can't handle orsomething I can't do, I've got
to ask or it goes left undone.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, I'm not going to mention anybody's name, but
the relationship thing, support.
So you know one of the guys inthe program who I think highly
of, that I just think has a tonof potential.
When he first came in he hadsome setbacks and since then he
pushed through.
But I believe that, like in hiscase, that other people but he
(30:13):
had played a big part, like heput the work in, had humility,
owned his mistakes, but I thinkthe people that after that that
he surrounded himself with madea big difference.
You know, um, he has still hadto show up every day, so but but
I do think that has an impact,just having someone that if you
(30:36):
want help, I'll do it.
I'm trying to stay clean todaytoo.
That's why I love recovery inIn addiction man, everything had
an angle, like if I helped you,it's because I thought I could
gain something from you down theroad, like, or you would be
indebted to me in some way.
But I got peace in that goinginto a meeting.
I'm like, yeah, I'll help youbecause I'm trying to stay clean
(30:57):
and sober day too, and I haveto help someone to do that.
I'm like all the cards are onthe table.
You're helping me becauseyou're working a program.
I can do that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
And and uh, that's huge what you just said.
I I've seen people fall awayfrom the program that that were
on the right path, it seemedlike, and everything was going
great for them, but they endedup surrounded by people who were
not serious about recovery andbeing in the program and they
fell away with them.
You know they they weresusceptible to not having
(31:29):
boundaries and stuff and thatwas that's the boundaries is a
huge deal.
It's.
It's there's some lines.
I'm just not willing to crosssome things and and the guys who
I hang out with, they wouldn'teven ask me.
You know, it's not even it'snot an option to ask me if we're
going to go do something dumb.
It's just not even part of thelexicon and it's just not.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah, Sign me up.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I was going to say when you were talking about
that I used Dave was talkingabout if it hit my.
That was my motto.
If it feels good, do it.
Whether it was right or wronghad not anything to do with it.
If it felt good I was going todo it, and that is a hard way to
live.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
That, Dave, was that 1% time I was talking about when
I said 99% of the time?
It was that 1% right there.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Checked out.
Yeah, I enjoy on.
We attend this meeting onTuesday nights.
I had to learn about healthyboundaries and commitments.
Nowadays, I don't say thingsthat I am not going to be able
to do, and I establish thosehealthy boundaries up front and
(32:37):
don't expect someone else toknow them without me telling
them someone else to know themwithout me telling them.
So that's a real big part of myrecovery is the bridge meeting.
I enjoy the bridge meeting.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I've learned so much from that.
Yeah, and to those of us whoare listening who are not in
recovery, boundaries make you ahealthy person, period.
If you think you're healthy butdon't have boundaries, you're
not healthy.
And uh, that's something thatmy wife and I walked through is
that she just didn't haveboundaries when we got together,
(33:13):
um, and she heard me say no toa lot of things that I learned
the boundaries from the sameperson that you're talking about
, um, and her learning andbuilding boundaries.
Now, like you said a while ago,kristen, when someone doesn't
respond well to her boundariesor my boundaries, it's like a
neon sign that we know thisisn't a healthy relationship,
(33:38):
and so boundaries aren't justfor people who struggle with
substance abuse, they're foreverybody.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Yeah, you can be friendly with everybody, but you
don't have to be friends witheverybody.
Yeah, you know, some people arejust not your person.
They're just not your people,you know.
I mean you still have to berespectful and kind and willing
to help out and that's somethingthat you know, especially in
recovery, that we learn thatpersonalities, you know, can't
let that alienate the message ofrecovery.
But you know, outside of that,you know you don't have to have
(34:06):
my phone number to call me on,ask me, you know, normal,
regular, friendly stuff.
If I feel like you're notworking towards the same goals
I'm working towards, I just, youknow, yeah, more importantly,
I'm not strong enough to dealwith that.
You know I've seen me wreckedby surrounding myself with
people that aren't like-mindedor heading in the same direction
I'm going.
I just can't survive like that.
(34:26):
You know I've seen thatmiserably fail in my life.
I'm just not willing to do itagain.
I don't have another run.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Well, I know I've talked to both of you and things
are going well.
And things are going well.
Like I know, david sharedearlier that he has a
career-type job.
He loves it.
He's making fair money.
Are you in that, pretty solidin your?
Speaker 4 (34:47):
work.
Yeah, I have a commercialdriver's license so I drive a
truck every day and I absolutelylove my job.
We actually work for the samecompany.
So, yeah, in my interview Itold my future boss who's my
boss now that I was looking fora place that I heard his
employees were happy and that'swhat I'm looking for.
You know, you got anything likethat.
(35:07):
And he was like, yeah, come onin, dude, I got you.
So I was like, all right, sweet, so, and really yeah, so I'm
super happy.
I know that helping people inrecovery will probably always
have to be a part of my recovery, but I don't see myself ever
leaving my job.
I absolutely love what I do.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Well, you mentioned you got a car and I know a lot
about you guys, or at leastsince your time here, so I know
some of the stuff you'veaccomplished, and I know that
both of you have.
Well, you got your licenseright, dave, like since you've
been here, and that was asignificant accomplishment,
right 17 years without one.
(35:49):
Yeah and what do you mind measking, like final out the door,
what you had to pay to get themback Me out of pocket?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Just total what it cost $2,900.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
That's a pretty big commitment.
And 17 years yeah, $2,900 and17 years.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And lots of tickets.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, and I know you've both gotten vehicles and
things.
So what I'm getting at isyou've put all this work in in a
short period of time and you'rereaping the rewards of that,
and now you're building a lifethat's one it's easier not to
use in agreed absolutely, andthat you're accomplishing things
(36:29):
, so it's it makes it harder toallow a risk in there.
You know, like allowing otherpeople in that could jeopardize
that.
Once you put all that work in,at least it has for me, like I
hadn't always had these things.
They may be basic for somepeople, but they wasn't for me,
you know.
And now that I have them, Iwant to hang on to them.
(36:49):
So if you're on something that'sother than you know, that is
outside of just the healthybehavior or trying to stay clean
and sober.
It's nothing personal, it'sjust business.
I'm not willing to give this upanymore, and it took me a while
to get to that point.
Y'all probably honestly got towhere you're at faster than my
(37:12):
road took me.
But once you get it, man, youjust don't want to get it.
It's wonderful.
No one has ever taken anythingfrom me ever.
I gave it away, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
I'm on that page too.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Here you go, and man, I'm trying not to do that stuff
anymore.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Right For me.
I was tired of being mad atpeople who didn't do anything
wrong.
Once I realized that theyhadn't actually done anything
wrong, I was like, man, that'sall on me, isn't it?
That's a tough pill to swallow.
You've done all this stuff, andother people have a right to
have their resentments againstyou.
A lot of times in recovery, wetalk about our resentments that
(37:51):
we have about the past, but theamount of resentments that I've
left behind in the world forother people to have towards me
is just huge, you know, and sothat's something, something to
be worked through, you know, andthat's something that I work
through.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
One more question, guys.
I really appreciate youdedicating the time to kind of
share your story.
But if, if someone was at theplace, you were like
incarcerated or whatever intreatment, maybe and we're
looking to take that next stepif you could give them some
advice ahead of time based onwhat you've learned, like what
would that be?
Speaker 3 (38:29):
If they were a drug addict or an addiction, I would
tell them to definitely attendtreatment.
Start there.
That would be my response 's.
I mean that it helped me, so Imean that's all I can do, you
think sober living is a key partto like going from treatment to
sober living.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Do you do you think that increases their chance of
success?
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
It continues on from from treatment.
It just it puts you at the nextlevel.
It's like in the book the Steps, it's like the next step.
I figured you go to treatment,dry out, learn a few things,
then try to get back out in theworld, transition out into the
world and have a little bit morefreedom.
But keep on it, start workingon you.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
One step at a time.
What about you, Chris?
What would be your advice tosomeone that's just starting a
journey?
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Starting the journey in the same place, I was in jail
.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Could, be.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
Take a look at your jumpsuit that you're wearing and
know that I'm not wearing oneright now.
You know I mean it sounds.
You know a lot of peoplerespond to just materialistic
things.
I have nice stuff and when Iwas locked up I didn't nor did I
have any hope or ambition, oreven sitting here doing this
podcast was never even on myradar of stuff that I would be
(39:51):
doing at some point.
I thought I would just use anddie and that would be life.
So give yourself a break.
Go to a meeting.
Take a friend, take two.
Go to a meeting.
Take a friend, take two.
Go to a meeting.
Make a friend you know, uh,maybe not take yours, maybe
they're just not your people.
You know what I mean.
Just cause you run around withsome people, don't mean they're
your people, you know.
Uh, uh, you know, if they are,they'll follow you into a
(40:11):
meeting room.
They'll follow you to to, tothis path too.
You know, if they're notwilling to come down this road
because they're scared they gotother issues.
Man, set your boundaries up.
They're not.
They're not for you, man, it'sOK not to, it's OK not to have
everybody in your life all thetime.
You know they can be savedlater, it's OK.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
To our listeners Thanks for joining us today.
We know addiction is not goingto get better from things like
tougher laws, but it's going tocome from people sharing what
they've.
Welcome back to.
Unpolished Recovery.
My name is Trey.
Most stories of recovery startwith how bad addiction was, how
an individual ended recovery andhow great life is now.
That's a polished story.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name's Chris.
I'm your co-host of UnpolishedRecovery.
I actually have two gueststoday, two alumni and graduates
of the program.
We have Kristen and David withus, so I appreciate you guys
coming on and last minute notice.
So how long have you been here,kristen?
I've been here almost sevenmonths, and Dave, how long?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I've been here for nine months.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So both of you've been graduated for at least a
few weeks now and kind of what'sdifferent today versus the day
you walked in?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
What's different about you?
Absolutely everything.
From when I first got here Iwas coming out of jail, I really
had no idea where I was goingto go, what I was really going
to do no job, no car, no money,absolutely no plan whatsoever
(01:08):
other than get to the halfwayhouse, and even that was a flop,
with its own difficulties ofwhen I was going to get out.
I wasn't sure I was surprisedby getting out.
So, uh, coming here, I justcame here and buckled down and
and kind of just took everythingliterally day by day and and to
just kind of do the right thingeach day so that the next day
would be better than the day Ihad before, and kind of work
through things.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Dave.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
What was?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
the question.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
What's different today versus the day you come in
?
Oh, that was the question.
Yeah, you're close enough.
Okay, cool.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
My attitude.
For one, I had a lot ofattitude and self-arrogance and
pride issues, and I'm able towork through those today instead
of act upon them.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I think it's crazy.
When I interview guys and stufflike that, I'm like, oh, this
one's got potential.
But I really don't know what'sgoing through that individual's
head.
You know what their process islike and I actually have told
you all before.
I did the program myself, so Iknow what that process is like
(02:13):
showing up, you don't knowanybody.
I don't know if I was halfexpecting it to be like jail and
the other half was liketreatment, but it was nothing
like I expected.
But you was the program whatyou expected or completely
different, or both was nothinglike I expected.
Was the program what youexpected or completely different
, or both?
Speaker 4 (02:28):
I think I had a fair idea of what things were going
to be like from being in yourclass when I was in jail.
Kind of an idea, but stillmind-blowingly different.
Look, when I first got here, Iwas given a certain amount of
freedom.
I'm actually really thankfulthat there are levels one, two
and three.
If I had been able to go to athree or alumni day, one out of
(02:49):
jail never would have made it.
There's just not a shot.
I just, I just wouldn't.
No, if I, if I, had beenallowed to drive day one, I'd
have been gone.
You know, I mean, I just.
But over time you just learn tolike, get along with people.
It becomes your environment.
You make friends, you findreasons why you're where you're
(03:09):
supposed to be and doing whatyou're supposed to be doing.
You, you start working thesteps.
You got things to do.
You know you can't run off.
You got responsibilities atsome point.
You know, I don't know, it'sjust, it kind of just happens to
.
You change just kind of one ofthose things where it just
happens and sometimes you lookback, go hey look, I changed.
You don't really even see itwhile it's going on, I think.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
What about you, Dave?
Anything that you, was it likewhat you expected or not.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
We spoke on the phone in February when I was
incarcerated and we kind of wentover some of the guidelines and
the rules of something that Iwould be agreeable to to come in
here.
And it was a change in pace iswhat it was.
The rules and the guidelinesstayed the same, but I had to
change the pace myself to bewilling to do that.
(03:53):
So it had a very an impact onmy life, the structure and the
rules and the guidelines.
It was like coming out of jailfresh into treatment and then
(04:16):
here and it was a heck of a hop.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Definitely an adjustment.
How long were you here when youactually?
How long did it take, I guess,to say like, hey man, things are
changing, things are gettingbetter, I'm right where I need
to be, or whatever that processwas for you?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I would have to say, after the 30-day blackout of
being on level one, it taught mea lot of patience that normally
I wouldn't have had.
I would have wanted to do whatI wanted to do and come to find
out those things are probablynot the best thing for me, so it
(04:55):
taught me to just sit down andlisten and be patient.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Kristen, you were nodding your head in agreement
about that 30-day window.
I kind of was.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I tell people the first 30 days is that bullshit?
Just do it.
Just just let it happen for you.
You know, don't fight thesystem, just just be where
you're supposed to be whenyou're supposed to be there, be
micromanaged, feel the pressureof the micromanaging system.
It's just part of the process.
You know, eventually you'll getinto a routine and things will
feel more comfortable.
But you know, give it 30 days.
(05:23):
You know, if you got to give it30 days, if you try, after two
weeks every guy sounds the samethey hate it, or it's the best
thing in the world.
You know they're already supergung ho.
They're going to graduatetomorrow.
They're ready now, you know.
Or they just hate it, you know.
But I tell them I'll justsettle in, give yourself, pace
yourself, take your time.
You know you got nothing buttime right now and just you're
at the only place I can think ofwhere you can actually work on
(05:44):
what you've got going on and andthe rest of the world kind of
just stops for a little while.
You know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
No one's rushing you.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Yeah, and they a lot of guys will come in and they
talk about they want to contacttheir family and do this and
that, and I tell them all thesame thing.
I said look to be there.
You're not able to help.
You're building yourself backup and even just talking to them
, all you're going to do is heartheir problems and what they've
got going on and Aunt Susie'ssick and all these different
things that you've got to dealwith.
And you need to deal with whatyou've got going on right now,
(06:13):
especially in that first 30 days.
So, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Now you guys come to us like two different routes.
Like you had mentioned, I teacha weekly class at the local
jail for just basic andintensive recovery and, dave,
you were referred to us and wejust got to talk on the phone.
Do you think that was anadvantage for you, kristen, to
be able to be in class and hearabout the program.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Even you know, when I was injail I really hadn't especially
had no idea what was going onLike this was the literally the
first lifeline I had seen.
While you know, since prior togoing to jail, you know, even
before months before I went tojail, I needed something had to
happen.
You know I was going to end updead, so but it was the first
lifeline and I just grabbed onto it and I think that guys who
(07:04):
appreciate that and see that Ican see we were talking earlier
about that I can see when thoseguys come in that they're
appreciative and they get it,you know, pretty quickly.
So, but yeah, but the class kindof set me up for success.
I had already worked some ofthe paperwork done steps one,
two and three on paper.
I've already had done a relapseprevention plan.
(07:24):
I didn't have to wait as asanction to do one, I had
already done one and it wasactually really helpful that I
had already done one.
I've used some of the stuffthat I actually wrote on that as
a part of my recovery and soyeah, so some of those things
that you did in the program arealso in treatment.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, I just now noticed that, because I didn't
know nothing about the BRICprogram.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, that's awesome.
The reason I was asking is,like so, from an outside
perspective, someone that worksfor the program, and I've had
interaction with both of you,like even though it was
different referral sources, youboth like came in like, hey,
what do I got to do?
I just want to do what I'msupposed to you.
Neither one of you ever had anymajor discipline issues.
(08:13):
Like you were learning theropes.
I had some petty, you knowroutes I can't remember there
were so few, but both of youhave, you know, done great.
You know, and I was telling Daveearlier like you fall in the
same category.
Like you're a positive, youhave a positive impact on our
program, new people coming in,because you know I might
(08:35):
interview them and I give themthe rundown mostly just so they
know the expectations.
You know, like it's not everyprogram, this is not for
everyone.
You really got to be willing togo to different lengths to be
able to get better here.
So it was just alwaysfascinating Like this person
(08:56):
come from here.
But they both did well.
Do you think, dave?
You mentioned that like goingahead and hitting the ground
running with recovery.
Do you think that was anadvantage for you coming in here
?
What?
Speaker 3 (09:07):
do you mean hitting the ground running?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Like you were already starting in treatment.
You had already started on stepwork, some of the things we do
here.
Did it better prepare you foryour time here?
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
how do I say that?
Let's see.
How do I say that?
Let's see?
It prepared me by going to themeetings and being able to sit
and fill out paperwork.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
And it got me comfortable starting to get in
touch with myself, kind of gotfamiliar with the recovery
mindset.
Right, yeah, you had mentionedbefore.
Had you ever been in, worked arecovery program prior to coming
to Restoration House?
No, what about you, kristen,had you?
Speaker 4 (09:55):
No, I haven't worked a recovery program.
I was sober.
I got sober the day they puthandcuffs on me and so You're an
idiot?
Yeah, exactly.
And so once you're in a wholequick digging situation, I was
in that situation and so I thinkmaybe my mind had already
(10:19):
started the recovery process.
I wasn't like detoxing and allthese things once I met Chris
and got into the BRIC program.
So I was ready for a change andI think that you know they talk
in the rooms about the gift ofdesperation.
I was there, you know, and Ithink that when, when you've
alienated the entire world andthere's nobody that is there to
help you and somebody says, hey,I have a plan, I have an idea,
(10:40):
why don't you try this?
You grab on.
You know what I mean.
And once you've, you know Iburned every bridge there was to
burn out there.
So I mean my options were none,you know.
So once I saw an option and Iwas like, okay, we're going to
have to do that.
That's where we're at, you know.
And then once I realized, bybeing in the program and stuff,
(11:05):
how many bridges I burned andhow many options I had taken
away from myself or removed inmy life based on my actions.
It made it a lot easier just tofall into the mold of doing
what's expected and and andconduct myself the way that I'm
expected to conduct myself theway I said I would when I came
here fun fact for listeners wehad started a conversation with
david and then technologyhijacked it, and then kristin
hijacked it, and now we havefour people.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
And now we have four people, but, david, you were
kind of sharing the same thingabout, like when you arrived,
you just became this sponge andI'd love for you to share that
again.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
All right.
Yeah, I guess when I came here,I didn't really know how to
live a successful life.
I came here I didn't reallyknow how to live a successful
life, so I had to be patient andtake suggestions, as they say,
and learn everything that Icould, because what I've been
(11:58):
doing hadn't been productive inlife.
It always led me to the samesituations, the same answers, me
to the same situations, thesame answers, and it just wasn't
working out.
So I got a sponsor.
I tried to do things on my ownand that was unsmart, because
what I did on my own got me here.
So I started listening, andthat's just pretty much the gist
(12:25):
of it.
I do things today with aconscious mind and the
repercussions are minimal in anegative manner anyways, and
that's where I'm at today really.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, that's a big deal to get to a place where the
risk you take when somethinggoes wrong that they're not dire
consequences absolutely yeah, Iwas actually uh, thinking about
that the other day.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
I was like, all right , what's the worst case scenario
?
I'm sober, I'm not going torelapse over anything that
happens today.
You know what I mean.
And it actually it providesfreedom and confidence to do
some things.
You know.
I know that I'm not going to doanything that's going to risk
what I've got going on.
So they're just minor things.
You know you can be friendly tosomebody at work you may not
normally talk to or take achance on making a friend with
(13:12):
somebody you don't see eye toeye with immediately or
something like that.
Because what's the worst casescenario?
You know I'm not going to useover it, I'm not going to
relapse over, I'm not going tojeopardize my program over it,
so I can take these chances andrisk, you know, having a little
more confidence than, say, whenI first got here I was very like
, okay, somebody would saysomething like yep, you and me
aren't going to be friends, I'mgoing to be over here doing this
thing, you know, and just kindof move different, you know.
(13:35):
But now it's a little more ableto help somebody else along.
I think no.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Absolutely Navigating life on life's terms.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
And I think too, it's learning responsible freedom.
We can do anything that we wantto, but not everything is
productive for us.
In the past, everything soundedlike a good idea until I got
called or I got locked up.
But I do think and I think themistakes that I—I tell people
all the time that the mistakes Imake today don't cost me three
to six years of my life.
(14:08):
The mistakes I learned todayare mostly learning experiences
Like okay, well, that didn'twork out.
Let me do it this way, so Idon't feel like my whole life's
in balance every day.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Yeah, it's a whole different set of consequences
when the worst thing I can sayis, well, yep, that happened,
yeah, and keep it moving.
You know like, yep, well, mybad, not gonna do that again,
let's learn, keep it moving, youknow, but it doesn't really.
There's no life cost, there'sno burning of the bridges
anymore or any of that stuff.
Yeah, it's definitely a truestory so I had I wanted to say
(14:43):
something about.
You had mentioned Chris, youhad said something about freedom
and the freedom to make choicesand things like that.
I can remember and this mightsound odd to somebody but the
scariest day that I had in theprogram was the day that I
downloaded the Uber app.
Before then I could makemistakes, but they were going to
be on a bus line, I was goingto be walking there, walking
back, whatever it was going tobe.
(15:04):
But I downloaded Uber and I waslike, oh, I can literally go
anywhere.
I was like I'm just going tostay home and sit this out for a
little while.
I'm not ready for it.
Like I can't emphasize enoughhow the levels I'm a huge fan, I
needed those levels Like, allright, I'm going to be home at
this time, even now, can stayout till 11.
Cool, I'll be in at 8 30.
I got some paperwork to do andthat's that's it for me.
You know, I just I justmoderated myself enough until I
(15:27):
could learn some life skillsagain to recognize problem areas
and just stay away from it andout of it.
So but yeah, freedom day was theday I downloaded uber and then
I bought a car and it wasn't abig shock, like I could have
gone everywhere the day beforebecause I had uber already, you
know.
So it was one of those freedomthings.
When I got a car I was like Icould go anywhere, yeah, but I
could do that the day before, soit really didn't have a
detrimental impact, like I knowthat it could have, you know.
(15:50):
But but on my relapseprevention plan even the one I
did in jail uh, on there was, um, uh, recognizing that when I
gain and get a lot of stuffmoney, car and stuff like that
to be weary of that kind ofstuff makes me want to go show
it off or go back to old hauntsand and look how good I'm doing
and all that.
So those are on my relapseprevention plan of things that I
(16:11):
have to be aware that that myego will take over and try to
get me to drive this place, thenI can't do it.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I'm not built like that, I'm just, I think, survive
it I think this is an obviousquestion, but have you always,
either of have you alwaysthought so much about the
decisions you're making?
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Never in my life, no I actually, I actually sat
melancholy for a while going,hey God, why didn't you give me
the ability to understandconsequences?
Like I really thought, like Idon't know, I just skated by so
much or felt like I was, youknow, until it all comes
crashing down.
I really was like there's noconsequences, like the
consequences have never beenhorrific until this last time,
(16:48):
losing everything and thentaking a good look at that.
But before that I mean I wasliterally like those rules don't
apply to me.
I mean, those apply to peoplewho can't bounce back.
You know so.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Is that the process that you would, you say, have
hit rock bottom, or?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
you know yes, I hope so that better have been rock
bottom.
I've always been good.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Once I hit that I just get a shovel, you know.
But I'm hoping those days areway behind me.
But we were talking about Dave,with recovery, like what are
some of the things you've gainedtoday from working a program?
You had said not really been ina work to program before and
then you started here.
What's some of the things youbelieve that that's given you?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I do have healthy relationships nowadays.
And then another thing myfamily is back into my life.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
And I don't know, Dave's family is in my life too.
I went to Thanksgiving withDave.
Yes, you can see me if you lookclosely at the photo.
I'm in the background.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You expressed that your family had separated
themselves from you.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Absolutely.
I came back from California tobe close to family, and my
family didn't want to haveanything to do with me, and so I
was homeless in my hometown,near my family, and so that was
probably my lowest point in myaddiction that I've ever had in
my life.
(18:15):
I came 2,500 miles home anddidn't have a home.
You fell farther away from them, I fell farther away from them,
fell farther away, exactly.
And then now I've got all thesefriends that tend to do right
and you know, hang out and havea good time.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
You had said before, kind of that process for you too
was like you stopped blamingeveryone else, like you just
like, hey, some accountability.
Like I'm the one my decisionsmade this way, I've got to do
something different.
Uh, you had mentioned thatearlier.
Uh, what about you?
Uh, kristen, what's some of thestuff that recoveries give you?
(18:57):
No, I, absolutely agree.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
It's usually dave's fault, yeah, no, um, uh, you
know what it's giving Dave'sfault.
No, you know what.
It's given me a confidencerather than an arrogance, like I
used to be able to walk aroundwith like a bravado, like things
weren't wrong, but they werereally were, you know.
But now I'm actually morecomfortable, you know, not just
kind of edging my way throughthings.
You know what my morality isback, that's something like I
(19:24):
really didn't care about therules.
I played fast and loose withthe rules my whole life, as far
back as I can remember, andbeing sober and having about 19
months clean and some stuffaccumulating and friends that I
trust and I like to be around.
I just never want to go back tothat and I think dishonesty
played such a huge role in mypast life that that'll eat me up
(19:48):
.
So now, if you know, dave is myfriend, you know, if there's
something that I don't like thathe's done or whatever, we just
talk about it.
You know, I would have neverdone that before.
I would have just chalked it,you know, and it would have just
been like I would have put adistance between us, you know.
And then over time thatdistance gets greater and
greater.
But now my friendships arereally important to me.
So I want that gap to be closed.
(20:09):
You know I don't want thosethings anymore.
And, um, sometimes dave is mytest dummy, you know, like I
don't know, I'll just, yeah,I'll have conversations with him
, be like, hey, I don't reallylike this, you know.
And then you know sit down andtalk about, you know,
accountability and what my roleis in it and those things are
actually important to me.
You know, not not putting it onsomebody else.
You know for me to really kindof do what I'm supposed to be
(20:31):
doing on my side of the street,really, I think.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Well, in early recovery relationships, you know
is a big part.
There's a fine line could goeither way.
You know you can get you hopeto get hooked up with the right
people.
They're like-minded, seriousabout recovery.
And then there's theindividuals that are just doing
what they have to and that'sjust where they're at.
It's not a judgment thing.
But how do you determine that?
(20:55):
I mean, is it, like you said,especially in this program, you
guys being alumni serving aspeer leaders, like you see
people come in like for your ownrecovery, do you keep a
distance until you know they'veproven they're safe?
Or like, how do you navigatethrough that?
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I think I think generally by gauging somebody's
response to my healthyboundaries, like I have, you
know, things that matter to meand their response, in the way
they interact with me, once theyunderstand what matters to me,
kind of really tells me whatthey're about.
You know, if my boundariesaren't important to somebody
else, then you know, I keep mydistance.
(21:34):
You know, and don't get mewrong.
I mean I have kept my distancefrom a couple of people who have
just gained in growth here andstuff like that over time, you
know, and I reevaluated thosefriendships, you know.
But yeah, what?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
about you, Dave?
What do you do to try tonavigate through that?
Speaker 3 (21:53):
It boils down to the amount of effort that I see
people putting in.
If it progresses, I'm willingto stick around.
You know, because it tookeffort for me, so I had to put
effort in and somebody seenprogress in me and they stuck
around.
So as long as I see somebodytrying to do something to better
(22:16):
themselves, you know I'll stickaround and help you out any way
I can.
Okay, Because that's whatsomebody did for me.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I've noticed too that if somebody doesn't really talk
about recovery in like normalsituations that they have going
on in their life, I kind of shyaway from them.
Maybe it's just the stage whereI'm at right now.
But like me, dave and a few ofour other friends we talk about,
we try to recovery everything.
He'll say say, hey, do you wantto hear it from the recovery
(22:47):
point of view?
Yeah, hit me with it.
You know, it's just kind of howour conversations go.
You know, it's kind of whatwe're into and if, if that
embracing a lifestyle right, andif it doesn't seem like
somebody else is like ready toembrace that lifestyle, for
whatever reasons they have goingon, I can feel myself putting a
little distance between myselfand them too.
It's you know.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I'm curious how uh those, since you're both in
program leadership now, how younavigate that distance while
fulfilling your role in insupporting other people in their
recovery journey.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
A lot of issues are just simply a black and white
issue.
When you're, when you're, youknow uh, uh, they're written
down.
Thankfully, it's not my opinion, it's not my choices.
These you know.
Everybody here has signed apiece of paper saying that they
wanted to be here and that theywere going to follow certain
guidelines and and my job as alead is, when they don't follow
those guidelines, to point themout and and and go from there.
(23:38):
Um, on the other hand, thosesometimes you also want to help
them work through some stuff,and that can be a little tricky
because now you're entering inyour opinion, into things and
it's they're two very differentthings.
My opinion of something and therules can be very different.
They're not often, but they canbe very different.
You know, I can understandsomebody's perspective or why
(23:59):
they did what they did and andfeel for them and be
compassionate for them.
On the other hand, you brokethe rules.
It's not up to me.
The rules are written the waythey're written.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, I'm guessing their response to that kind of
dictates how much just moralsupport you can provide.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
It really does.
It really does and and you knowwhat, uh uh, sometimes people
come here and they have somestruggles and they, they really
get through it and they justbecome really great participants
and so you can't tell.
You just can't tell.
I mean, first, 30 days aretough on everybody, I think,
when they get here and you can'treally sort out who somebody is
going to be long term.
(24:33):
And it's also another thing togive everybody the opportunity
to not be the person they werewhen they got here.
If you, if you just stick themto whatever box you put them in
when they get here, or evenafter a month or two months or
three months, you're not reallygiving them a fair chance to
grow and you're not reallyaccepting the world for what the
world is at that time.
I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, and Dave, is it hard to protect yourself and
still do the duties of being apeer leader?
Because that's what it isYou're helping guys with the
stuff that you learned.
Is that difficult?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
The challenges that I navigate with being a lead and
being in recovery is sometimesthe rules and recovery go hand
in hand and sometimes they don't, and sometimes you've just got
to do what's on the piece ofpaper and make sure everything's
lined up accordingly, and onceyou do that, other things will
(25:30):
line up.
My opinions are opinions and Istate these are my opinions, or
you know what I'm saying, butyou're going to do what you're
going to do, regardless of thesituation, whether I reread the
rules to you or I give you anopinion, you're still going to
do what you're going to do,regardless of the situation.
whether that's reread the rulesto you or I give you an opinion,
you're still going to do whatyou want to do.
So that's how I kind ofnavigate those things.
(25:50):
I try not to make any decisionthat I don't know for a fact.
If I don't know for a fact, Ialways call, because my pride
and my arrogance will get in theway and I'll think I know
something or I'll do somethingout of my ego or something like
that, and I have to call and belike, hey, am I making the right
(26:11):
decision, you know?
And they'll be like, yes,that's the same thing.
We would have told them.
Okay, cool, then I know, thenI've given out good information.
But I still call and make sure.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
You think it's easier to ask for help today versus,
say, when you come in?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
I thought I was going to comein and do these things on my own
and sail through this programand it'd be easy, until I
figured out that it's not.
It's a definite change in life.
It's a change in pace ineverything that you do, my
behaviors, my thoughts, like Istill have messed up thoughts at
(26:51):
times and I have to reallyunderstand that those are just
thoughts, Like I've had thoughtsof man today's not going well
at work.
I'm just going to leave, I'vegot paid vacation time, what do
I do?
Ten minutes later I'm like I'mjust going to stay at work.
You know what I mean?
It takes me time to recheckmyself and I can't always do
(27:16):
that, especially with any kindof narcotics or anything like
that in my system substances.
But I guess that's how Inavigate most of my days, or I
call somebody else and they'llhelp me navigate it.
So it works out.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I tell people all the time that learning a new way
isn't centered around not usinga drink.
It's that I'm dealing with lifedifferently than I ever have
before.
I'm willing to ask for help.
That was the hardest thing forme.
Coming in Early recovery islike.
If I'm asking for help, doesthat mean I'm not as serious?
(27:56):
Does that mean that I'm weak,or does it mean I'm not going to
make it?
All these things I get in myhead that disease riddled brain
I have.
It'll distort my view of things, and I depend on other people
to kind of help me sort that out.
So do you believe today thatyou've got the people around you
to help you do that?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
I believe.
So I know that I've struggledwith now and more recently now
that I've graduated the programand stuff where for some reason
in my head at first it makes itharder for me to ask for help.
I feel like I should know someshit, you know.
But then then I'll take amoment and realize, ok, I do
need to ask these questions, Ineed to find out.
(28:39):
And again, when it's programrelated, it's it's not my
opinion.
A lot of times it's it's theway the program set up.
You know, it's just a matter ofgetting clarity for what the
rules are and stuff.
But but my opinions, you know, Iwill bounce them off of friends
.
Now I have friends that I cantrust their ideas and their
opinions Ninety nine percent ofthe time, and so that's really
(29:02):
nice to have.
89% of the time and um, sothat's really nice to have.
Um, it can really help centerme and and get me out of myself
and realize that I'm not in thisby myself or doing this alone.
I think that's a big portion ofit too, is is we're not doing
this alone by any means.
You know, uh, yeah, I reallyhave um, sympathy and empathy
for guys that come here and theydon't get a band of people put
(29:24):
together that they feel likethey can trust and work with and
ask questions and bounce ideasoff and and get good feedback
from.
I think that's been crucial.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
for me, it really has been yeah, I still don't like
asking for him, I still don'tlike it.
But I have to reason myself andtell myself hey right,
something I can't handle orsomething I can't do, I've got
to ask or it goes left undone.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, I'm not going to mention anybody's name, but
the relationship thing, support.
So you know one of the guys inthe program who I think highly
of, that I just think has a tonof potential.
When he first came in he hadsome setbacks and since then he
pushed through.
But I believe that, like in hiscase, that other people but he
(30:13):
had played a big part, like heput the work in, had humility,
owned his mistakes, but I thinkthe people that after that that
he surrounded himself with madea big difference.
You know, um, he has still hadto show up every day, so but but
I do think that has an impact,just having someone that if you
(30:36):
want help, I'll do it.
I'm trying to stay clean todaytoo.
That's why I love recovery inIn addiction man, everything had
an angle, like if I helped you,it's because I thought I could
gain something from you down theroad, like, or you would be
indebted to me in some way.
But I got peace in that goinginto a meeting.
I'm like, yeah, I'll help youbecause I'm trying to stay clean
(30:57):
and sober day too, and I haveto help someone to do that.
I'm like all the cards are onthe table.
You're helping me becauseyou're working a program.
I can do that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
And and uh, that's huge what you just said.
I I've seen people fall awayfrom the program that that were
on the right path, it seemedlike, and everything was going
great for them, but they endedup surrounded by people who were
not serious about recovery andbeing in the program and they
fell away with them.
You know they they weresusceptible to not having
(31:29):
boundaries and stuff and thatwas that's the boundaries is a
huge deal.
It's.
It's there's some lines.
I'm just not willing to crosssome things and and the guys who
I hang out with, they wouldn'teven ask me.
You know, it's not even it'snot an option to ask me if we're
going to go do something dumb.
It's just not even part of thelexicon and it's just not.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah, Sign me up.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I was going to say when you were talking about
that I used Dave was talkingabout if it hit my.
That was my motto.
If it feels good, do it.
Whether it was right or wronghad not anything to do with it.
If it felt good I was going todo it, and that is a hard way to
live.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
That, Dave, was that 1% time I was talking about when
I said 99% of the time?
It was that 1% right there.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Checked out.
Yeah, I enjoy on.
We attend this meeting onTuesday nights.
I had to learn about healthyboundaries and commitments.
Nowadays, I don't say thingsthat I am not going to be able
to do, and I establish thosehealthy boundaries up front and
(32:37):
don't expect someone else toknow them without me telling
them someone else to know themwithout me telling them.
So that's a real big part of myrecovery is the bridge meeting.
I enjoy the bridge meeting.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I've learned so much from that.
Yeah, and to those of us whoare listening who are not in
recovery, boundaries make you ahealthy person, period.
If you think you're healthy butdon't have boundaries, you're
not healthy.
And uh, that's something thatmy wife and I walked through is
that she just didn't haveboundaries when we got together,
(33:13):
um, and she heard me say no toa lot of things that I learned
the boundaries from the sameperson that you're talking about
, um, and her learning andbuilding boundaries.
Now, like you said a while ago,kristen, when someone doesn't
respond well to her boundariesor my boundaries, it's like a
neon sign that we know thisisn't a healthy relationship,
(33:38):
and so boundaries aren't justfor people who struggle with
substance abuse, they're foreverybody.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Yeah, you can be friendly with everybody, but you
don't have to be friends witheverybody.
Yeah, you know, some people arejust not your person.
They're just not your people,you know.
I mean you still have to berespectful and kind and willing
to help out and that's somethingthat you know, especially in
recovery, that we learn thatpersonalities, you know, can't
let that alienate the message ofrecovery.
But you know, outside of that,you know you don't have to have
(34:06):
my phone number to call me on,ask me, you know, normal,
regular, friendly stuff.
If I feel like you're notworking towards the same goals
I'm working towards, I just, youknow, yeah, more importantly,
I'm not strong enough to dealwith that.
You know I've seen me wreckedby surrounding myself with
people that aren't like-mindedor heading in the same direction
I'm going.
I just can't survive like that.
(34:26):
You know I've seen thatmiserably fail in my life.
I'm just not willing to do itagain.
I don't have another run.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Well, I know I've talked to both of you and things
are going well.
And things are going well.
Like I know, david sharedearlier that he has a
career-type job.
He loves it.
He's making fair money.
Are you in that, pretty solidin your?
Speaker 4 (34:47):
work.
Yeah, I have a commercialdriver's license so I drive a
truck every day and I absolutelylove my job.
We actually work for the samecompany.
So, yeah, in my interview Itold my future boss who's my
boss now that I was looking fora place that I heard his
employees were happy and that'swhat I'm looking for.
You know, you got anything likethat.
(35:07):
And he was like, yeah, come onin, dude, I got you.
So I was like, all right, sweet, so, and really yeah, so I'm
super happy.
I know that helping people inrecovery will probably always
have to be a part of my recovery, but I don't see myself ever
leaving my job.
I absolutely love what I do.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Well, you mentioned you got a car and I know a lot
about you guys, or at leastsince your time here, so I know
some of the stuff you'veaccomplished, and I know that
both of you have.
Well, you got your licenseright, dave, like since you've
been here, and that was asignificant accomplishment,
right 17 years without one.
(35:49):
Yeah and what do you mind measking, like final out the door,
what you had to pay to get themback Me out of pocket?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Just total what it cost $2,900.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
That's a pretty big commitment.
And 17 years yeah, $2,900 and17 years.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And lots of tickets.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, and I know you've both gotten vehicles and
things.
So what I'm getting at isyou've put all this work in in a
short period of time and you'rereaping the rewards of that,
and now you're building a lifethat's one it's easier not to
use in agreed absolutely, andthat you're accomplishing things
(36:29):
, so it's it makes it harder toallow a risk in there.
You know, like allowing otherpeople in that could jeopardize
that.
Once you put all that work in,at least it has for me, like I
hadn't always had these things.
They may be basic for somepeople, but they wasn't for me,
you know.
And now that I have them, Iwant to hang on to them.
(36:49):
So if you're on something that'sother than you know, that is
outside of just the healthybehavior or trying to stay clean
and sober.
It's nothing personal, it'sjust business.
I'm not willing to give this upanymore, and it took me a while
to get to that point.
Y'all probably honestly got towhere you're at faster than my
(37:12):
road took me.
But once you get it, man, youjust don't want to get it.
It's wonderful.
No one has ever taken anythingfrom me ever.
I gave it away, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
I'm on that page too.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Here you go, and man, I'm trying not to do that stuff
anymore.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Right For me.
I was tired of being mad atpeople who didn't do anything
wrong.
Once I realized that theyhadn't actually done anything
wrong, I was like, man, that'sall on me, isn't it?
That's a tough pill to swallow.
You've done all this stuff, andother people have a right to
have their resentments againstyou.
A lot of times in recovery, wetalk about our resentments that
(37:51):
we have about the past, but theamount of resentments that I've
left behind in the world forother people to have towards me
is just huge, you know, and sothat's something, something to
be worked through, you know, andthat's something that I work
through.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
One more question, guys.
I really appreciate youdedicating the time to kind of
share your story.
But if, if someone was at theplace, you were like
incarcerated or whatever intreatment, maybe and we're
looking to take that next stepif you could give them some
advice ahead of time based onwhat you've learned, like what
would that be?
Speaker 3 (38:29):
If they were a drug addict or an addiction, I would
tell them to definitely attendtreatment.
Start there.
That would be my response 's.
I mean that it helped me, so Imean that's all I can do, you
think sober living is a key partto like going from treatment to
sober living.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Do you do you think that increases their chance of
success?
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
It continues on from from treatment.
It just it puts you at the nextlevel.
It's like in the book the Steps, it's like the next step.
I figured you go to treatment,dry out, learn a few things,
then try to get back out in theworld, transition out into the
world and have a little bit morefreedom.
But keep on it, start workingon you.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
One step at a time.
What about you, Chris?
What would be your advice tosomeone that's just starting a
journey?
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Starting the journey in the same place, I was in jail
.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Could, be.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
Take a look at your jumpsuit that you're wearing and
know that I'm not wearing oneright now.
You know I mean it sounds.
You know a lot of peoplerespond to just materialistic
things.
I have nice stuff and when Iwas locked up I didn't nor did I
have any hope or ambition, oreven sitting here doing this
podcast was never even on myradar of stuff that I would be
(39:51):
doing at some point.
I thought I would just use anddie and that would be life.
So give yourself a break.
Go to a meeting.
Take a friend, take two.
Go to a meeting.
Take a friend, take two.
Go to a meeting.
Make a friend you know, uh,maybe not take yours, maybe
they're just not your people.
You know what I mean.
Just cause you run around withsome people, don't mean they're
your people, you know.
Uh, uh, you know, if they are,they'll follow you into a
(40:11):
meeting room.
They'll follow you to to, tothis path too.
You know, if they're notwilling to come down this road
because they're scared they gotother issues.
Man, set your boundaries up.
They're not.
They're not for you, man, it'sOK not to, it's OK not to have
everybody in your life all thetime.
You know they can be savedlater, it's OK.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
To our listeners Thanks for joining us today.
We know addiction is not goingto get better from things like
tougher laws, but it's going tocome from people sharing what
they've.
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