October 16, 2024 • 42 mins
Join us as we reconnect with one of our favorite guests from Season 1, Kate! She is a passionate missionary who brings her unique insights from a year spent in a historically rich city near biblical sites. Through her experiences, we explore the beauty and complexity of the Arabic language, its profound role in religious contexts, and the vibrant culture she has immersed herself in. Kate's reflections on the growth of the local Christian community reveal a tapestry of hope and aspiration as she seeks to expand her mission beyond the city's limits.
The spiritual landscape is fraught with challenges, particularly in regions marked by tribal governance and conflict. We address the bold endeavor of sharing the kingdom of God against such a backdrop, drawing upon personal stories where spiritual unity in Christ serves as a beacon of hope amidst division. Delving into the depths of scriptural reflection, we uncover how prayer and divine encounters can transcend barriers, illuminating the path with the light of Christ. Through Kate's journey, we gain insights into the transformative power of faith in overcoming adversity.
Our conversation takes a poignant turn as we confront the harsh realities of human trafficking through the story of a Ugandan woman caught in its web. This narrative exposes the exploitation that marginalized communities often face, prompting us to consider how we can contribute to justice and support initiatives combating modern slavery. As we wrap up the episode, we reflect on the enriching cultural exchanges and the extraordinary stories of faith shared by our guests. Engage with us on this meaningful journey, and find out how you can be part of the conversation by connecting on social media and sharing these stories within your communities.
Follow @unreachedpodcast on Instagram for more!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
In Revelation 7, john shares his vision of heaven,
with members from every tribe,tongue, people and language
standing in the throne roombefore the Lamb.
Yet today there are still over7,000 unreached people groups
around the world.
For the last six years, myfamily and friends have been on
a journey to find, vet and fundthe task remaining.
(00:28):
Come journey with us to theends of the earth as we share
the supernatural stories of Godat work for the men and women he
has called to reach theunreached.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello friends, welcome back to the Unreached
podcast.
Dustin Elliott here, your host,and we have a second-time
repeat, all-time top-downloaded,most-listened guest We've got
Kate.
We've got Kate back from seasonone and we are so fired up, if
(00:59):
you remember, if you haven'tlistened to Kate's first episode
, you have to stop and go listento it.
This young woman we got achance to commission her to the
mission field from our localchurch in Austin, texas.
We had our missions pastor, donEllsworth, here and Clint and I
, and we got to talk to her justabout what God had stirred in
her heart and the progression oftime and how she had prepared
and studied and worked with thiscertain culture and people to
(01:22):
get ready.
And then it was time to go.
And here we are the next yearand we get to connect and we get
to find out what has happenedsince then.
So, kate, welcome back.
We're so happy to have you.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thank you, so fun to be here with y'all.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Let's get it going.
Let's tell some stories we sentyou.
I think you were doing likelife insurance policies or wills
or something like that, and itwas time to go.
So what happened next?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yes, so I got to land in this beautiful city that
I've now lived in for a yearminus four days and have loved
every second of my time here.
It is a rich culture.
It's incredibly old city,positioned in a very strategic
and biblically significant place.
So it's wild to be drivingdistance from where Jesus was
(02:08):
baptized, where he was born, tosee from hilltops cities of
tremendous biblical significanceand then to think at the same
time wow, these people who I'maround, who I have neighbors
with, who I'm buying things fromat the store, whose language
I'm learning, these people havebiblical history running through
their veins.
This is deeply rooted here whenthe good news came here 2,000
(02:31):
years ago.
It's crazy to think that now,2,000 years later, the church is
here and it's growing veryslowly and very much the
minority, but it is stillspreading.
Historically speaking, it'sbuilding back from times when it
has been pushed back in at thebeginning of Islam.
Later on, you know there'sdifferent ratio changes that
have happened in this land, butto know that the good news chose
(02:54):
to came here first, yeah, it'skind of a fun thing to think
about when I'm here, wanting toshare the good news again, to
say, actually he was here beforeand told you these things.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, no doubt about it.
And so you've been planted inthis beautiful city, you're in
this significant area.
Talk about your network there.
What's happened with your teamand the people that you've kind
of started to meet, early on atleast?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So, like I said, the city is a beautiful place.
It's a really easy place toland.
I would say we can talk moreabout it later.
My hope and dream is to moveoutside of the city here pretty
soon.
But it's been a wonderful placeto land, in part because the
family of God here, or as wecall them, god's team, is pretty
broad and diverse.
The local body of believershere is also growing and the
(03:40):
ones who have been here for along time they've been here
since the time of Jesus.
So it's a complex and beautifulpart of the body of God to be
in and at the same time, theteam that I've had shared life
with them for the past year.
We were here for an eight-monthintensive training program
before everyone then got sentout to other places.
(04:01):
So that was four hours ofArabic a day.
It was three hours of differentcultural ministry sessions,
things like that.
It was quite intense, but itset me up in a way to where now
I feel very confident in thisplace.
I, language-wise, can getaround.
Sometimes it's humbling.
You know, some days you feelreally good.
(04:22):
You know you're able to havefull conversations about the
Trinity and whatever, and thensome days you don't know how to
ask how much this bus costs, soit's humbling, but it's been a
really sweet beginning groundand platform.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So I had a long conversation with a Muslim guy
in Florida at a conference onetime and we ended up talking for
like three hours next to thepool and just beautiful compare
and contrast, you know, theKoran to the Bible.
And one of the things that hehit on that really stood out to
me was just the beauty and themagnificence of the Arabic
language and he's like you callthat a chair, he's like we have
(04:56):
30 words for that Like he justwas very much in awe of the
beauty of the language and youeven said in kind of talking
before we hit record you reallyhave grown to appreciate the
language.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Absolutely.
Arabic has been around for areally, really, really long time
and poetry is one of theirproudest products.
It's a very poetic language,just by nature and to your point
.
I was talking with a father ofa friend of mine.
She had me over for lunch.
She's an Islamic scholar we canget into that more later and as
(05:33):
we were talking he said one ofthe reasons why they believe God
chose the Arabic language withwhich to write the Quran part of
it is because it is so poeticand so descriptive.
He used the example of the wordlove.
There's about 40 differentwords for the idea of love, for
the word love, and I immediatelyparalleled that to an example
from a dear friend of mine thatI've recently met here.
She's from Finland and in theFinnish language they have 30
(05:55):
words for snow, and whensomething is prominent in a
culture, you come up with a lotof ways to describe it.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah.
So I mean you're learning theirbeautiful language but at the
same time, you're building thisbridge on love and maybe you're
are you teaching them anythingas well?
Any good Texan words?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
A lot of American slang I have to throw aside, but
the one that I've kept andtaught them is the word yee-haw.
I say it quite a bit justnaturally and when they know
they love it.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
They are so excited.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Unfortunately they're getting there with the
pronunciation.
Some say hee-haw, some sayknee-how, so we're really trying
to get there, yee-haw.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yee-haw.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I love it.
I love it.
So let me ask you this, asyou've had some conversations
with your Muslim friends therewhat have you learned about God?
What have you seen from theirpoint of view that maybe has
given you a differentperspective?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
A feature of living here, in fact a constant reality
of living here, has been theexistence of the war going on
very close to us between Israeland Palestine, and one of the
most painful parts is almost allof my friends here are
Palestinian.
They're fully, fully Palestinian, though they were born and
raised in this country.
They are very much close towhat's happening and the things
that I just see in the newstypically, and so conversations
(07:16):
start very quickly and veryeasily about the character of
God, about the nature of theworld, the nature of brokenness
and pain, and that is not a toolI came here with was how to sit
with someone in grief and howto just not wait for a hook in
their words to bait it to thischeap bridge, to something that
(07:36):
doesn't land with them, but howto actually just sit with them
in grief, and one of the wayswe've done this is through so
much tears, so much wordlesstears, sitting together with
many friends of mine in cars, inparking lots, late at night in
classes.
The grief just pops up.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Sometimes for hours, right?
I mean, I think in the culturethere's a cultural difference,
whereas we try to move on prettyquickly from an emotional event
and move into the next thingand kind of compartmentalize and
now let's just put that overthere and I'll deal with that
later.
Different right they want tosit in it.
They want you to sit in it withthem.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Exactly.
I've thought many timeshumorously about a class that I
took at my church in Austin onlament, because I think as
Westerners we need to be taughthow to mourn, how to grieve, and
yet this is something very,very normal here, very accepted
and very embraced.
And if you read the NewTestament I think it would very
much fit with the culture thatwe read about in the New
Testament.
(08:32):
Is these people who even in theOld Testament, right sackcloth
and ashes, just grief is worn ontheir sleeve?
And in the news we see theeffects of that at times, what
it means for grief to be actedout in the wrong ways.
But all the more that stirredmy heart to see what would
happen to grief, genuine, true,deep grief if put before Jesus,
(08:56):
seen by him and held by him.
How would that change thatheart If it could actually be
expressed and then caught andthen held and comforted.
So when talking about grief withmy friends, of course, we often
come back to the character ofGod.
I initially started askingfriends what do you think God is
(09:17):
doing right now in the midst ofyour former neighbors and your
cousins and your friends beingin a horrible situation, often
scared for their lives?
What do you think God's doing?
And they would say he iswaiting because he is testing us
.
God will allow horrible thingsto happen to people just so that
(09:39):
he can see if they're goodenough.
And if they are, if they provegood enough, then they get the
reward.
They get heaven, maybe we hopeand I heard this, and this is
again in light of, I mean, everynews story.
I see every video that I see.
These are people who look likemy friends.
They're people speaking thelanguage that I'm learning.
(10:00):
I don't need the subtitles onthe video to understand what
they're saying.
It's something very close tothis land here and close to my
heart even, and so to sit ingrief.
That is that close and thatconstant and for them to have
the only thing they can cling tobeing.
He's testing us and we justhave to get through it without
(10:20):
complaining.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I think of Job when you talk about that experience
that's going on around you andthem trying to almost earn their
place in heaven, based on howthey're handling the struggle,
the trials that are before them,right, and I just think of Job,
and I know the story of Job'sin the Quran.
I think he was called Ayub, hewas a righteous servant of the
law the way they kind of saw itand suffered for a long time.
(10:43):
And so there is a story there,a lot of parallels obviously in
the two texts.
Man, what a freeing place tolead someone to if they can
catch the concept of saved bygrace through faith.
And it's not what you do andit's not what you earn and it's
not how you handle situations.
To Clint's point, he says oftenGod delights in watching us go
(11:04):
through these things and wantsto let us experience it because
he's building endurance in us,right Back to James 1, which
makes us perfect and complete.
But it sounds like the mainthing God's teaching you is
patience and empathy.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
And another point that I'llthrow in there is intercession.
Yeah, because it is the realityof Revelation 7, where not only
will every tribe, tongue andnation be around the throne, but
there's this beautiful picturewhere we're before the throne of
the Lamb.
Every tear is wiped away.
It's just this completion thatthings will truly be okay, and I
(11:41):
don't have to cheaply say thator I don't have to throw out
this like things will truly beokay and I don't have to cheaply
say that or I don't have tothrow out this like, oh, it'll
be fine, my friends.
There's a phrase herealhamdulillah.
It just means praise God,praise God, and it's inserted at
the end of anything that couldsound slightly complaining or
grief-like.
If you acknowledge, you have tosay Alhamdulillah, praise God.
(12:02):
To acknowledge, we can'tcomplain.
We have to stay positive inthis cheap, surface-level sense.
But I think about Revelationand it's an intimidating book to
read and it's almost terrifyingto read because it is so
terrifyingly real, this kingdomof God that's coming and the
reality that we'll live in.
(12:23):
It's so real.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
How are you seeing God work in supernatural ways
there?
I mean, there's such grief andconflict and just such kind of
hate for other peoples andunknowns, and why are things set
up this way?
How are you seeing God bring adifferent light into that?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
You're right, there is a strong heaviness here that
feels very confining and veryimprisoning.
Even to a believer with the hopeof Christ inside me, it can
feel very depressing and veryheavy living so close to such
grief and, even before that,living around a group of people
who are literally still tribal.
Tribal ordinances govern thiscountry and a lot of the
(13:05):
countries around us, so there'sa fragmentation here that when I
look about the New Testamentand I see how Paul spoke to a
culture not too different fromthis one, talking about this
unity in Christ and this extentto where there's not even male
or female something sofundamental, but we're one in
Christ.
Else something so fundamental,but we're one in Christ just
(13:29):
speaking to this supernaturalunity that will be afraid of the
spirit of it as the good newsof the kingdom comes through
this land.
It's an idea right now and it'san idea that I tell my friends
about, but it's one of mybiggest prayers is that unity
comes in a way to where eventhese huge scale, deep political
conflicts that we read about onthe news and that my friends
(13:51):
are experiencing is somethingthat can be mended, redeemed in
the kingdom.
One of my favorite things to dowith my friends here is, instead
of just saying direct factsabout the good news of the
kingdom, for example, or eventelling stories of Jesus, which
I do love to do, one of myfavorite things that's come
about through mostly sittingwith people in grief has been
(14:14):
creating a space in which theycan approach Jesus and encounter
him.
It's typically looks likethrough prayer.
So, for example, at my formerapartment, I'm currently in my
fourth home of the past year.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Oh boy.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
But in my last apartment I had a dear friend
over We'll call her Ahlam andshe is a precious close friend
of mine whose English iswonderful.
So we praise God forrelationships in which I don't
need to use my fumbling Arabic.
But as we're talking aboutgrief in her life, of course it
pertains to the war, of courseit pertains to her family, it
(14:52):
pertains to the pressures ofjust daily life, being a single
woman in your 20s.
Here I share about ways inwhich Jesus has met me, not just
through the word and its truthand not just through the body of
God through the church, butdirectly in prayer, impressions
(15:13):
that he's given me, ways that hepulls my heart back to
scripture, ways that he shows mepictures of things that inspire
my imagination to truth.
With him, and I invited her, Isaid would you like to ask him
what he thinks about this painin your life?
We can take a second and closeour eyes and listen and see what
he says.
And as I'm offering her thisinvitation, I'm praying
desperately inside Jesus,protect this space, jesus, come
(15:35):
to her, pursue her like you sayyou do.
And as soon as I said it, herface changed, it fell and her
brow scowled some and she stoodup almost in a panic and she
said I have to.
You're right, I have to, I haveto go pray.
I should go pray, and speakingin the Muslim way of how our
friends pray five times a day.
And I said, oh, oh, okay, rightnow.
(15:59):
Okay, unlike her character andso unlike her manners, anything
like that.
It was not her whatsoever.
And this has happened time andtime and time again with my
friends.
As soon as I offer thisencounter with Jesus through the
wings of prayer and sitting andlistening or even opening the
word, there is a switch thathappens and they become not
(16:21):
themselves.
And it took me a couple timesto realize it, but one time when
I said, okay, friend, okay, Igo into the kitchen to do dishes
to give them privacy while theypray in my living room, and the
whole time I'm praying likecrazy.
And again, this is after I'dcaught on to what was happening
from the enemy side of things.
(16:42):
And I come out after a fewminutes and she's sitting on the
couch on her phone.
So there's a weird reality of aspiritual interference that can
happen to our friends when thisoffer is posed to them and I've
seen it happen immediately andthen lift immediately when
there's prayer and intercession.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Wow, I've never heard that said that way, like when
that moment is presented andyou've given that fertile soil,
if you will, and that seed isgetting ready to scatter, it's
like something triggers and theyare captivated.
It's a muscle memory.
But it's more than that rightOf no.
(17:23):
I to go, this is my way ofdealing with that and that's
what I'm going to keep doing.
And man, wow, that's quite astory.
So how does that?
I mean now that you've seen ithappen more.
I mean, one time is an event,two times is something there.
And you said, you've seen ithappen several times now.
So I wonder how we can bepraying as supporters of you and
(17:47):
the network of the podcast atlarge.
What can we be praying for topierce that?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So I came across this verse a couple of years ago and
you know when you feel likeyou've discovered a scripture
verse for the first time and youget all excited.
This, to me, has spoken a lotto the situation of when my
friends all of a sudden, from aforce not of themselves, are
blinded.
In a moment I think of thisfrom 2 Corinthians 3, and I
(18:15):
think about our Muslim friendswhen I read this.
Even to this day, when Moses isread, a veil covers their
hearts, but when anyone turns tothe Lord, the veil is taken
away.
Another translation saysremoved.
The Lord is the spirit, andwhere the spirit of the Lord is,
there is freedom.
So there's this picture that isso tangible and so real and I've
(18:39):
seen that veil fall, almost asif it was a black curtain
falling in front of their faces,keeping them from the goodness
of God.
And to see this jealousy of God.
Right, psalm 18 comes up often,this passionate pursuit of a
God who will come down to thedepths of the sea to pull up his
children.
There is a pursuit here.
(19:00):
He is not apathetic when thatveil comes over their eyes and
their hearts and their minds, heis angry and he's pursuing them
.
So when I'm in my kitchen inthose times again, as I was
realizing this pattern with allof these friends, I started to
get really, really, really mad.
And as it's continued to happenin different ways in different
times, a quick prayer under mybreath will see the circumstance
(19:25):
change, saying Jesus, show up,jesus, be here, jesus, do
something.
And sometimes it comes with theactual shaking of their head of
snapping out of it.
Sometimes it comes with theconversation turning back to the
goodness of God, but he doeshear and he does jealously want
their attention and their heartsjust as much as I do, way more
(19:47):
than I do.
It makes me yearn for thatmoment when the temple veil was
actually torn, at the time ofthe crucifixion right the earth
and the veil was torn.
I just want to be there in thatmoment when it completely
ripped from top to bottom, and Ican pray according to that for
my friends thinking about thisannoying, to say the least, veil
(20:10):
, and I can put a lot of myfervor and my anger against it,
because I think that's where thewrath of God would go to.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So you've moved four times since you've been there.
You are in a city, there is acommunity around you, but we
know that you're not where youwant to be.
Yet You've kind of learnedabout another place that you
feel like you're being called to.
So what can you share aboutthese kind of next steps for you
?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, years ago, before even moving to this
country here, I was in the workof the Middle East and Muslims
and got to make many trips overto this part of the world prior,
and there was one city that Istill have not been to, but it
is a massive city with one ofthe lowest ratios of workers to
(20:56):
local population there, and it'sa place that the Lord has
continued to put on my heart,and now I live closer to it and
will hopefully visit in a coupleof weeks.
My heart and now I live closerto it and will hopefully visit
in a couple of weeks but it's aplace that has held a bookmark
in my heart in terms of prayerand intercession and in terms of
longing as well of what theLord could do in this place.
Just to speak more to thatratio, the city I'm currently in
(21:20):
is a big one, but there's alsoa lot of foreign, cross-cultural
workers here, like myself.
The ratio is about one foreignworker to every 200,000 local
friends.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So if you compare that to Austin, sure it's not
very much, but if you comparethat to the Middle East, it's a
pretty good ratio, Althoughstill.
Could you imagine if I woke upevery morning and thought, okay,
I have 200,000 people to gotalk to?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Mercifully, the spirit transcends those ratios.
But this other city that I hopeto move to, the ratio is a
little bit different.
It's one for every 3 million.
Oh my gosh.
This is a city that has had itsfair share of a lot of pain over
the years, has tremendousbiblical significance as well,
and the potential move there isone of those many things that in
(22:17):
my life reminds me of Psalm 127, unless the Lord is building
the house, its labors are goingto strive in vain.
Slightly paraphrased, but it'sone of those places that my
parents don't want me to move to.
I don't want to move to.
It's not comfortable.
The weather there has beendescribed as if someone's
blowing a hairdryer in your faceand then just throwing sand in
(22:39):
between you and the hairdryer.
But when I think about thesepromises of God that have felt
even stronger to me living herein the Middle East, these
promises of restoration ofliteral streams in the desert,
of hope, an actual hope thatdoesn't have to be deferred,
(22:59):
when I think about those things,copy and paste it onto this
other city.
It grows my eagerness and mylonging all the more.
City, it grows my eagerness andmy longing all the more.
If only I go, say, I go acouple weeks from now for a
weekend.
I pray and that's the only timeI ever go.
I feel very strongly that Iwant my prayers or my presence
or whatever sacrifice I can laydown to be for the city and
(23:24):
that's one of those things thatonly the spirit could prompt and
pull, because I just describedmany logistical reasons why it's
not pleasant to be there.
But there's something thathappens when the promises of God
met with the affection, theadoration of the people here
that I have met and of thesecultures, when those two things
(23:44):
come together.
I just want to be right therefor that reunion, right there,
when those two things cometogether.
I feel excited for the potentialrole in that city.
It is one of pioneering work.
It would be an adjective tothrow on that it's a newer place
.
It's ironic, it's an incrediblyold city but it's a newer place
where the goodness of Godhasn't been known for a really
(24:05):
long time and it's scary toconsider a role like that.
But those roles are often themost glamorized ones, right Like
in the global body of storiesthat we hear from the churches
it spreads.
Those are the exciting ones andwhat I'm trying to learn more
and more here and now is thepower of what Daniel got to do
(24:26):
in Babylon.
He was in captivity and frominside Babylon he was faithful
to God and he prayed and hedidn't do much before he got the
attention of the kingunfortunately negatively, but he
got the attention of the kingand that steady, daily
faithfulness.
I think of moms, honestly, whenI think of this type of
(24:48):
faithfulness that just keepsgoing.
That's what I want to grow in,that's what I want to do.
He's given me this vision and Ihave this hope to be one of the
very, very few Jesus followersin this other city.
But that's going to bepointless if there's no
faithfulness in the small things, right.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
So something I've learned so much about my life
here is, while I'm studyingArabic and I've been doing so
full-time for a year, it isstill a beast of a language.
People say it's like emptying abathtub, or maybe a pool, with a
little teaspoon, one teaspoonat a time.
Yeah, with a little teaspoon,teaspoon at a time.
Even after all of this work forlanguage, I know the best thing
(25:32):
that I can do for my friendshere isn't a perfectly
articulated argument of tellingthem the goodness of Christ, but
it's going to be through themencountering him, which maybe
I'm there to facilitate it,maybe I'm not, but it'll
certainly be through prayer,whether mine or the prayer of
others.
And the type of prayer that Imean is the kind that the
(25:55):
friends who carried theparalyzed man through the roof
right in front of Jesus.
They were up there cutting ahole, just probably yelling at
each other trying to figure itout, lowering this man in front
of Jesus without words that wecan see, in the middle of a
sermon, and just saying dosomething, jesus, do something.
This person that we love, thisbrother of ours, do something.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Let's get real for a minute here.
First question I want to askyou is have you felt like you
were in danger at any point?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
There were times where missiles were flying over
us a couple months ago and wewere hearing them getting shot
out of the sky.
Those are sorts of things whereyou think, okay, this is
probably going to be on the newstomorrow, but I rolled over and
fell right back asleep.
There's been a piece of Jesusin living here.
That's been really kind.
There is the fact of living ina city any city, same as I felt
(26:51):
in Austin, walking down SouthCongress as a single woman by
myself.
Sometimes, sure, you have somethoughts, but for no particular
reason.
No, I have felt quite safe here.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
There's a lot of different forms of human
trafficking and slavery andindentured servitude and
obviously even it's really badwith the sex trade and things
like that.
But there is some traffickingquite pervasive where you are,
which typically takes the formof bringing somebody from
another people group in, puttingthem into a job where you pay
(27:25):
them a very low wage.
You basically set up a systemwhere they owe you money to get
out.
They can't make enough money toever pay you.
You take their passport away sothey can't get out, and they
basically become a worker foryou.
Talk about how you'veencountered some of that since
you've been there.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yes, I started to see different groups of women
placed in different places.
Maybe they were cleaners at agym, maybe they were employees
at a certain salon, typicallyfrom Southeast Asia or from
Uganda, almost always fromUganda, and the first friend
that I made a connection withfrom that group was a Ugandan
woman.
At my gym I had lost my phonebecause I don't think maybe this
(28:07):
is to the point of me feelingreally safe here.
It's because I don't oftenthink about things too often and
I left my phone on the bench.
And half an hour later I comeback up to find my phone and I
see her and she's sweeping and Isay hi, friend, have you seen
my phone?
At first I tried to speak withher in Arabic quickly to find
out she doesn't speak Arabic andshe tells me she left the phone
(28:29):
with reception.
So I thank her profusely and itdidn't take long for us to
build a very close friendship.
I just visited her last week inher house.
She lives in a refugee home,though she's not a refugee, but
she lives in a refugee campdowntown with Sudanese,
palestinian, many, many peoplein a really rough situation.
(28:51):
I get to bring her food.
We get to talk about Jesusbeing from Uganda, she's very
familiar with Jesus, butculturally she comes from a
place that's very mixed.
Her father was Muslim, hermother was a Christian and she
doesn't exactly know where shefalls.
And yet she's come here andexperienced horrible, horrible
treatment due to her role anddue to the way that she's
(29:14):
visually different.
And we walked down the streettogether a couple of weeks ago
and she was practically skippingand she says Kate, when I'm
with you I just feel free.
And that made me really sadinitially to know that me
walking down the street as awoman who, of course, I'm a
minority here, but I'm also avery privileged minority, and
(29:38):
people when they hear I'm fromAmerica, they respect it
instantly.
And for her, coming from such adifferent background, we've
both been put here, we've bothfound ourselves in this city
where we are struggling with thelanguage and we're far from
family.
But our circumstances areradically different and I know
the road ahead for her is noteasy.
(30:00):
I've been to the many placesthat she's lived since being
here, each one of them harderand more infested than the next,
and this problem of humantrafficking is very strong here
and it's been a gift to get toshare the reality of it with
some of my Arab friends and I'llshare.
No, this woman cannot leavehere, and if she tries to leave,
(30:22):
she'll be in prison for sixmonths and then forced to pay
her plane ticket home.
This is a problem, and to seethe hearts of my friends get
stirred for this as well.
I'm very thankful that thereare some organizations here
doing this work.
But I've thought about you guys, I've thought about friends
that you've interviewed before,and I've thought about many
friends that I know have donework in Uganda.
So if this is a platform to askfor more economic development
(30:46):
in any sustainable way in thatcountry, oh no, you're hitting
home here.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You're hitting home here because we've been working
hard in Uganda for over 10 years.
It makes me think of likeThailand and Myanmar, where we
also do a lot of work there.
It's why we also work withorganizations who are going out
and putting in you know JVI,putting in justice hubs and
bringing legal help and bringingmilitary or former military
(31:10):
professional help into thosesituations.
But, man, friends out therelistening, if you're not
involved in some capacity insupporting organizations that
are fighting human traffickingtoday, like I just encourage you
to find a way into that.
Justice Ventures International,jvi, which I just brought up,
is a great one.
Global Child Advocates is onewe support.
Ashley Heiligman's been onbefore, which is working in
Thailand and Myanmar, and I justappreciate that.
(31:33):
Kate's bringing a real worldexample and think about what she
just said.
This woman's living in arefugee camp.
She's in a small, tiny littlespace with multiple other people
, no dignity, no opportunity forbettering her situation, and
her situation's gotten worsethree or four times since you've
known her over the last year.
It's not moving into a bettersituation, it's getting worse
(31:56):
and that's the reality forthousands, in fact millions, of
people around the world todayand, man, we have such a
responsibility to heed that calland get involved.
You started to hit on thisearlier about your Palestinian
friend who brought you over tospeak to her father, who wanted
to basically share, from anacademic perspective, their
(32:16):
majority religion, and reallythey were trying to recruit you
right.
So tell us what you can aboutthat story.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Marissa, if I had had some experience from my time in
the States living with Afghans,would be told constantly that,
sister, you would be such a goodMuslim, or countless other
things that I could tell werecoming from such a sweet place
of care for me and of honoringof me.
I once held hands with one ofmy Afghan friends and through
(32:45):
tears we both communicatedsister, I love you and I want
you in paradise with me, whatthey call heaven.
I want you with me, I want youto be part of this family, and
we both held hands, crying, notknowing how to get over this
impasse.
It's a tricky thing of havingsuch deep relationships with
friends from such differentworldviews.
(33:06):
There's tensions to hold, butthis Palestinian friend of mine
here we will call her Noor.
I've been friends with her fora long time and she's another
one whose English is fantastic.
She read War and Peace just forfun.
She's amazing.
So we've been talking abouttheological things for a long
(33:26):
time and I was at a cafe withher and shared the story of the
prodigal son.
And that's one of the manystories that, when you hear it
through Middle Eastern lens, itis revolutionary.
It's a story of a boy who ranaway.
Shamed, his family ends up in apig pen, which is the worst of
all places for a Muslim toimagine being the shame is
(33:48):
incomprehensible.
And he walks back to thisfather rehearsing a story,
practicing, muttering to himselfalong the road, and when he
looks up he sees his father, thepatriarch, running to him.
Every element of that blowsapart the Middle Eastern frame
of reference.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
She was sitting from the cafe trying to stop me
saying no, no, no, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
No way.
No, that would never happen.
Gives him the signet ring,gives him his robe.
He's running.
He wouldn't run, no way.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
It's insane.
And what we determined fromthat story was wow, the grace
and goodness of God is waylouder than our shame.
And after that story she saidyou have to meet my father Now.
I knew that her father was anIslamic scholar, so I thought oh
man, here we go.
So I went to her parents' houseand she had prepared lunch for
(34:44):
me.
So we sat down and ate, just meand her, for a while.
And after about three hours oflunch I thought well, maybe he's
busy today, but that was justthe warm up.
And he comes in, a very kind man, very tender.
His English is not as good ashis daughter's, so as we're
speaking, it's half Arabic, halfEnglish.
And when you speak of religiousmatters you don't use the local
(35:05):
dialect, you use this higherform of Arabic called Fusra.
That is really rich and poetic.
So he's talking and I'm gettinghalf of it, and for the rest of
it I'm trying to listen to Noorto see what he's saying.
But he goes through all thetalking points that Muslims
typically do the deity of Christor not, the reliability of
scripture or not, all thesedifferent talking points, and
(35:29):
this is one of those momentsthat I am praying under my
breath the entire time, notthinking that in that moment I'm
going to say something thatwill change his mind.
His career is in this work, butas I'm looking at Noor sitting
in the couch between uslistening, I'm just wondering
what's going on in her head asshe's hearing, for the first
time, no-transcript, and as weslow down the conversation again
(36:10):
.
That was another three hourslater.
He told me that he respectedhow much I listened and that I
said some things that would makehim think.
Now again, only the Spirit isgoing to make any change from
whatever I said.
I don't even remember what Isaid, but that was a very
interesting place to find myselfin.
I didn't expect to be therethat day.
What?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
are you thinking when you walk out of there?
When you walk out of that, Iwant to think that you're
thinking this is why I'm here,thank you for that at bad God.
That's, that's why I'm here,right.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
With some exhaustion.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yes, Understandably, understandably.
I'm so happy for you that yougot that opportunity and you
were able to sit in that momentand yeah, who knows, who knows
if something changes in his lifeor in her life or in both, or
if you get another chance tocontinue to speak into that
prayfully you do, but just forthose at-bats and just that
(36:57):
you're there making yourselfavailable to love people in that
way.
I have such great respect foryou for that.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I would love to share one more story of hope before
we wrap up, please.
I would love to share one morestory of hope before we wrap up,
please.
So this dear friend I mentionedbefore, ahlam, who has heard the
good news many times and hasexperienced the veil from the
enemy that keeps her from it.
We had a great conversationearlier in the year and as we
talked about faith and religionwhich is not a taboo topic here
(37:27):
it's weird if you don't bring upreligion.
So as we're talking about it, Iasked her when's the time you
felt the closest to God?
And she said there was a timein university where things were
really difficult and a lot wasgoing on.
But he felt really close to meand then she looks around her,
(37:47):
makes sure no one else islistening and kind of whispers
to me.
It was weird, but he felt likea friend to me and my heart
broke and soared all at once tohear that she had had this
experience of closeness,connection, longing for
relationship with God, and sheloved it.
But she was also scared of it.
(38:09):
That's not terminology usedwhatsoever in her religion.
So to share with her afterwards, I think that's exactly what
it's like and we read togetherthese stories of how he no
longer calls us servants butfriends.
And I asked her do you want totalk to him, do you want to
(38:29):
engage in prayer?
Can I pray over you?
Can I pray with you?
Would you want to talk to theGod who is your friend?
And she didn't want to speak.
That night we were in her car soI prayed over her instead and
just prayed simple truths of thelove of God over her, inviting
his loving presence into thatcar, and when I looked up she
(38:51):
was in tremendous, deep tears.
It's an incredible thing that Ihave to remember all the time
is such a privilege that wecarry that we know his character
, we know what he's like.
We don't know all of it, butman, we know what he's like.
He is so gentle and he hascompassion on the harassed and
(39:11):
helpless, those who are sheepwithout a shepherd.
And we've enjoyed that presenceand we can share that joyful
presence with people.
Not just points, not justarguments, but we share the
joyful presence of God with them.
That was a fun night.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Would you do me a favor Now?
You know we always pray at theend of the pod for everybody,
but could you in some capacitypray that prayer you had for her
in her car and ask God to be inthe car with the listeners and
in the office and on this runthat they're on right now,
wherever they are, just let thatfly.
Yeah, let's pray.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Jesus, you are.
Yeah, let's pray.
Jesus, you are the one who satwith sinners, who ate with us,
who came to our houses, sat atour living room table and dined
with us, and your kindness andyour gentleness is the only
(40:04):
thing that's going to make usholy, the only thing to help us
in this path of righteousnessthat we crave.
We want to be near you, god.
We want to honor you with ourlives, and I know it's not going
to be my best of intentions,it's not going to be my momentum
or my effort that does that.
It is the gentleness of Godthat will sustain me.
(40:26):
You say in your word thatgoodness and mercy will follow
us all the days of our life and,jesus, we just invite and
embrace that aspect of yourpresence with us, the presence
that longs to be with us, andyou've proven that in many ways.
In the light of that presence,jesus, everything else has to go
(40:48):
, fear has to leave.
In your name, jesus,self-proving, effort, striving.
You've given us a light yokeand an easy burden, and that's
what we want instead.
So we want to sit here andenjoy your presence, jesus.
So, wherever we are, would yougive us right now, in your
spirit, a taste of your goodnessa little bit more, an
(41:12):
overwhelming taste, or a littlebit?
We just want more of you and wehave tasted and seen that
you're good, so we trust you,amen.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
And amen.
And instead of ending instantly, I'm going to ask a question
because I know the listenerswill want to hear this Can we
count on you to come back foranother season and do this every
year?
Speaker 3 (41:35):
We'd love to, maybe from this other elusive city I
keep referencing.
That would be great.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Maybe from the other elusive city I think you've
referenced one as the mountaincity and one as something else.
So, hey, we'd love to keephaving you back and keep
journeying with you.
Um, you are there, you are atthe ends of the earth, you are
reaching the unreached, you arepart of God's supernatural
stories, you are one of the menand women he's called and it is
just too cool, um, to be a partof your journey.
(42:01):
So thank you for sharing itwith all of us.
Thank you so much, all right,god bless my friend with all of
us.
Thank you so much, all right,god bless my friend.
(42:23):
Wherever you listen.
Also, share with your family,your friends, your church, your
life group, small group, d group, wherever you do life.
And if you want to connect withus, find us on Instagram, at
unreachedpodcast, or email us atunreachedpodcast at gmailcom.
In Revelation 7, john shares his vision of heaven,
with members from every tribe,tongue, people and language
standing in the throne roombefore the Lamb.
Yet today there are still over7,000 unreached people groups
around the world.
For the last six years, myfamily and friends have been on
a journey to find, vet and fundthe task remaining.
(00:28):
Come journey with us to theends of the earth as we share
the supernatural stories of Godat work for the men and women he
has called to reach theunreached.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello friends, welcome back to the Unreached
podcast.
Dustin Elliott here, your host,and we have a second-time
repeat, all-time top-downloaded,most-listened guest We've got
Kate.
We've got Kate back from seasonone and we are so fired up, if
(00:59):
you remember, if you haven'tlistened to Kate's first episode
, you have to stop and go listento it.
This young woman we got achance to commission her to the
mission field from our localchurch in Austin, texas.
We had our missions pastor, donEllsworth, here and Clint and I
, and we got to talk to her justabout what God had stirred in
her heart and the progression oftime and how she had prepared
and studied and worked with thiscertain culture and people to
(01:22):
get ready.
And then it was time to go.
And here we are the next yearand we get to connect and we get
to find out what has happenedsince then.
So, kate, welcome back.
We're so happy to have you.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thank you, so fun to be here with y'all.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Let's get it going.
Let's tell some stories we sentyou.
I think you were doing likelife insurance policies or wills
or something like that, and itwas time to go.
So what happened next?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yes, so I got to land in this beautiful city that
I've now lived in for a yearminus four days and have loved
every second of my time here.
It is a rich culture.
It's incredibly old city,positioned in a very strategic
and biblically significant place.
So it's wild to be drivingdistance from where Jesus was
(02:08):
baptized, where he was born, tosee from hilltops cities of
tremendous biblical significanceand then to think at the same
time wow, these people who I'maround, who I have neighbors
with, who I'm buying things fromat the store, whose language
I'm learning, these people havebiblical history running through
their veins.
This is deeply rooted here whenthe good news came here 2,000
(02:31):
years ago.
It's crazy to think that now,2,000 years later, the church is
here and it's growing veryslowly and very much the
minority, but it is stillspreading.
Historically speaking, it'sbuilding back from times when it
has been pushed back in at thebeginning of Islam.
Later on, you know there'sdifferent ratio changes that
have happened in this land, butto know that the good news chose
(02:54):
to came here first, yeah, it'skind of a fun thing to think
about when I'm here, wanting toshare the good news again, to
say, actually he was here beforeand told you these things.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, no doubt about it.
And so you've been planted inthis beautiful city, you're in
this significant area.
Talk about your network there.
What's happened with your teamand the people that you've kind
of started to meet, early on atleast?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So, like I said, the city is a beautiful place.
It's a really easy place toland.
I would say we can talk moreabout it later.
My hope and dream is to moveoutside of the city here pretty
soon.
But it's been a wonderful placeto land, in part because the
family of God here, or as wecall them, god's team, is pretty
broad and diverse.
The local body of believershere is also growing and the
(03:40):
ones who have been here for along time they've been here
since the time of Jesus.
So it's a complex and beautifulpart of the body of God to be
in and at the same time, theteam that I've had shared life
with them for the past year.
We were here for an eight-monthintensive training program
before everyone then got sentout to other places.
(04:01):
So that was four hours ofArabic a day.
It was three hours of differentcultural ministry sessions,
things like that.
It was quite intense, but itset me up in a way to where now
I feel very confident in thisplace.
I, language-wise, can getaround.
Sometimes it's humbling.
You know, some days you feelreally good.
(04:22):
You know you're able to havefull conversations about the
Trinity and whatever, and thensome days you don't know how to
ask how much this bus costs, soit's humbling, but it's been a
really sweet beginning groundand platform.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So I had a long conversation with a Muslim guy
in Florida at a conference onetime and we ended up talking for
like three hours next to thepool and just beautiful compare
and contrast, you know, theKoran to the Bible.
And one of the things that hehit on that really stood out to
me was just the beauty and themagnificence of the Arabic
language and he's like you callthat a chair, he's like we have
(04:56):
30 words for that Like he justwas very much in awe of the
beauty of the language and youeven said in kind of talking
before we hit record you reallyhave grown to appreciate the
language.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Absolutely.
Arabic has been around for areally, really, really long time
and poetry is one of theirproudest products.
It's a very poetic language,just by nature and to your point
.
I was talking with a father ofa friend of mine.
She had me over for lunch.
She's an Islamic scholar we canget into that more later and as
(05:33):
we were talking he said one ofthe reasons why they believe God
chose the Arabic language withwhich to write the Quran part of
it is because it is so poeticand so descriptive.
He used the example of the wordlove.
There's about 40 differentwords for the idea of love, for
the word love, and I immediatelyparalleled that to an example
from a dear friend of mine thatI've recently met here.
She's from Finland and in theFinnish language they have 30
(05:55):
words for snow, and whensomething is prominent in a
culture, you come up with a lotof ways to describe it.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah.
So I mean you're learning theirbeautiful language but at the
same time, you're building thisbridge on love and maybe you're
are you teaching them anythingas well?
Any good Texan words?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
A lot of American slang I have to throw aside, but
the one that I've kept andtaught them is the word yee-haw.
I say it quite a bit justnaturally and when they know
they love it.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
They are so excited.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Unfortunately they're getting there with the
pronunciation.
Some say hee-haw, some sayknee-how, so we're really trying
to get there, yee-haw.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yee-haw.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I love it.
I love it.
So let me ask you this, asyou've had some conversations
with your Muslim friends therewhat have you learned about God?
What have you seen from theirpoint of view that maybe has
given you a differentperspective?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
A feature of living here, in fact a constant reality
of living here, has been theexistence of the war going on
very close to us between Israeland Palestine, and one of the
most painful parts is almost allof my friends here are
Palestinian.
They're fully, fully Palestinian, though they were born and
raised in this country.
They are very much close towhat's happening and the things
that I just see in the newstypically, and so conversations
(07:16):
start very quickly and veryeasily about the character of
God, about the nature of theworld, the nature of brokenness
and pain, and that is not a toolI came here with was how to sit
with someone in grief and howto just not wait for a hook in
their words to bait it to thischeap bridge, to something that
(07:36):
doesn't land with them, but howto actually just sit with them
in grief, and one of the wayswe've done this is through so
much tears, so much wordlesstears, sitting together with
many friends of mine in cars, inparking lots, late at night in
classes.
The grief just pops up.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Sometimes for hours, right?
I mean, I think in the culturethere's a cultural difference,
whereas we try to move on prettyquickly from an emotional event
and move into the next thingand kind of compartmentalize and
now let's just put that overthere and I'll deal with that
later.
Different right they want tosit in it.
They want you to sit in it withthem.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Exactly.
I've thought many timeshumorously about a class that I
took at my church in Austin onlament, because I think as
Westerners we need to be taughthow to mourn, how to grieve, and
yet this is something very,very normal here, very accepted
and very embraced.
And if you read the NewTestament I think it would very
much fit with the culture thatwe read about in the New
Testament.
(08:32):
Is these people who even in theOld Testament, right sackcloth
and ashes, just grief is worn ontheir sleeve?
And in the news we see theeffects of that at times, what
it means for grief to be actedout in the wrong ways.
But all the more that stirredmy heart to see what would
happen to grief, genuine, true,deep grief if put before Jesus,
(08:56):
seen by him and held by him.
How would that change thatheart If it could actually be
expressed and then caught andthen held and comforted.
So when talking about grief withmy friends, of course, we often
come back to the character ofGod.
I initially started askingfriends what do you think God is
(09:17):
doing right now in the midst ofyour former neighbors and your
cousins and your friends beingin a horrible situation, often
scared for their lives?
What do you think God's doing?
And they would say he iswaiting because he is testing us
.
God will allow horrible thingsto happen to people just so that
(09:39):
he can see if they're goodenough.
And if they are, if they provegood enough, then they get the
reward.
They get heaven, maybe we hopeand I heard this, and this is
again in light of, I mean, everynews story.
I see every video that I see.
These are people who look likemy friends.
They're people speaking thelanguage that I'm learning.
(10:00):
I don't need the subtitles onthe video to understand what
they're saying.
It's something very close tothis land here and close to my
heart even, and so to sit ingrief.
That is that close and thatconstant and for them to have
the only thing they can cling tobeing.
He's testing us and we justhave to get through it without
(10:20):
complaining.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I think of Job when you talk about that experience
that's going on around you andthem trying to almost earn their
place in heaven, based on howthey're handling the struggle,
the trials that are before them,right, and I just think of Job,
and I know the story of Job'sin the Quran.
I think he was called Ayub, hewas a righteous servant of the
law the way they kind of saw itand suffered for a long time.
(10:43):
And so there is a story there,a lot of parallels obviously in
the two texts.
Man, what a freeing place tolead someone to if they can
catch the concept of saved bygrace through faith.
And it's not what you do andit's not what you earn and it's
not how you handle situations.
To Clint's point, he says oftenGod delights in watching us go
(11:04):
through these things and wantsto let us experience it because
he's building endurance in us,right Back to James 1, which
makes us perfect and complete.
But it sounds like the mainthing God's teaching you is
patience and empathy.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
And another point that I'llthrow in there is intercession.
Yeah, because it is the realityof Revelation 7, where not only
will every tribe, tongue andnation be around the throne, but
there's this beautiful picturewhere we're before the throne of
the Lamb.
Every tear is wiped away.
It's just this completion thatthings will truly be okay, and I
(11:41):
don't have to cheaply say thator I don't have to throw out
this like things will truly beokay and I don't have to cheaply
say that or I don't have tothrow out this like, oh, it'll
be fine, my friends.
There's a phrase herealhamdulillah.
It just means praise God,praise God, and it's inserted at
the end of anything that couldsound slightly complaining or
grief-like.
If you acknowledge, you have tosay Alhamdulillah, praise God.
(12:02):
To acknowledge, we can'tcomplain.
We have to stay positive inthis cheap, surface-level sense.
But I think about Revelationand it's an intimidating book to
read and it's almost terrifyingto read because it is so
terrifyingly real, this kingdomof God that's coming and the
reality that we'll live in.
(12:23):
It's so real.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
How are you seeing God work in supernatural ways
there?
I mean, there's such grief andconflict and just such kind of
hate for other peoples andunknowns, and why are things set
up this way?
How are you seeing God bring adifferent light into that?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
You're right, there is a strong heaviness here that
feels very confining and veryimprisoning.
Even to a believer with the hopeof Christ inside me, it can
feel very depressing and veryheavy living so close to such
grief and, even before that,living around a group of people
who are literally still tribal.
Tribal ordinances govern thiscountry and a lot of the
(13:05):
countries around us, so there'sa fragmentation here that when I
look about the New Testamentand I see how Paul spoke to a
culture not too different fromthis one, talking about this
unity in Christ and this extentto where there's not even male
or female something sofundamental, but we're one in
Christ.
Else something so fundamental,but we're one in Christ just
(13:29):
speaking to this supernaturalunity that will be afraid of the
spirit of it as the good newsof the kingdom comes through
this land.
It's an idea right now and it'san idea that I tell my friends
about, but it's one of mybiggest prayers is that unity
comes in a way to where eventhese huge scale, deep political
conflicts that we read about onthe news and that my friends
(13:51):
are experiencing is somethingthat can be mended, redeemed in
the kingdom.
One of my favorite things to dowith my friends here is, instead
of just saying direct factsabout the good news of the
kingdom, for example, or eventelling stories of Jesus, which
I do love to do, one of myfavorite things that's come
about through mostly sittingwith people in grief has been
(14:14):
creating a space in which theycan approach Jesus and encounter
him.
It's typically looks likethrough prayer.
So, for example, at my formerapartment, I'm currently in my
fourth home of the past year.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Oh boy.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
But in my last apartment I had a dear friend
over We'll call her Ahlam andshe is a precious close friend
of mine whose English iswonderful.
So we praise God forrelationships in which I don't
need to use my fumbling Arabic.
But as we're talking aboutgrief in her life, of course it
pertains to the war, of courseit pertains to her family, it
(14:52):
pertains to the pressures ofjust daily life, being a single
woman in your 20s.
Here I share about ways inwhich Jesus has met me, not just
through the word and its truthand not just through the body of
God through the church, butdirectly in prayer, impressions
(15:13):
that he's given me, ways that hepulls my heart back to
scripture, ways that he shows mepictures of things that inspire
my imagination to truth.
With him, and I invited her, Isaid would you like to ask him
what he thinks about this painin your life?
We can take a second and closeour eyes and listen and see what
he says.
And as I'm offering her thisinvitation, I'm praying
desperately inside Jesus,protect this space, jesus, come
(15:35):
to her, pursue her like you sayyou do.
And as soon as I said it, herface changed, it fell and her
brow scowled some and she stoodup almost in a panic and she
said I have to.
You're right, I have to, I haveto go pray.
I should go pray, and speakingin the Muslim way of how our
friends pray five times a day.
And I said, oh, oh, okay, rightnow.
(15:59):
Okay, unlike her character andso unlike her manners, anything
like that.
It was not her whatsoever.
And this has happened time andtime and time again with my
friends.
As soon as I offer thisencounter with Jesus through the
wings of prayer and sitting andlistening or even opening the
word, there is a switch thathappens and they become not
(16:21):
themselves.
And it took me a couple timesto realize it, but one time when
I said, okay, friend, okay, Igo into the kitchen to do dishes
to give them privacy while theypray in my living room, and the
whole time I'm praying likecrazy.
And again, this is after I'dcaught on to what was happening
from the enemy side of things.
(16:42):
And I come out after a fewminutes and she's sitting on the
couch on her phone.
So there's a weird reality of aspiritual interference that can
happen to our friends when thisoffer is posed to them and I've
seen it happen immediately andthen lift immediately when
there's prayer and intercession.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Wow, I've never heard that said that way, like when
that moment is presented andyou've given that fertile soil,
if you will, and that seed isgetting ready to scatter, it's
like something triggers and theyare captivated.
It's a muscle memory.
But it's more than that rightOf no.
(17:23):
I to go, this is my way ofdealing with that and that's
what I'm going to keep doing.
And man, wow, that's quite astory.
So how does that?
I mean now that you've seen ithappen more.
I mean, one time is an event,two times is something there.
And you said, you've seen ithappen several times now.
So I wonder how we can bepraying as supporters of you and
(17:47):
the network of the podcast atlarge.
What can we be praying for topierce that?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So I came across this verse a couple of years ago and
you know when you feel likeyou've discovered a scripture
verse for the first time and youget all excited.
This, to me, has spoken a lotto the situation of when my
friends all of a sudden, from aforce not of themselves, are
blinded.
In a moment I think of thisfrom 2 Corinthians 3, and I
(18:15):
think about our Muslim friendswhen I read this.
Even to this day, when Moses isread, a veil covers their
hearts, but when anyone turns tothe Lord, the veil is taken
away.
Another translation saysremoved.
The Lord is the spirit, andwhere the spirit of the Lord is,
there is freedom.
So there's this picture that isso tangible and so real and I've
(18:39):
seen that veil fall, almost asif it was a black curtain
falling in front of their faces,keeping them from the goodness
of God.
And to see this jealousy of God.
Right, psalm 18 comes up often,this passionate pursuit of a
God who will come down to thedepths of the sea to pull up his
children.
There is a pursuit here.
(19:00):
He is not apathetic when thatveil comes over their eyes and
their hearts and their minds, heis angry and he's pursuing them
.
So when I'm in my kitchen inthose times again, as I was
realizing this pattern with allof these friends, I started to
get really, really, really mad.
And as it's continued to happenin different ways in different
times, a quick prayer under mybreath will see the circumstance
(19:25):
change, saying Jesus, show up,jesus, be here, jesus, do
something.
And sometimes it comes with theactual shaking of their head of
snapping out of it.
Sometimes it comes with theconversation turning back to the
goodness of God, but he doeshear and he does jealously want
their attention and their heartsjust as much as I do, way more
(19:47):
than I do.
It makes me yearn for thatmoment when the temple veil was
actually torn, at the time ofthe crucifixion right the earth
and the veil was torn.
I just want to be there in thatmoment when it completely
ripped from top to bottom, and Ican pray according to that for
my friends thinking about thisannoying, to say the least, veil
(20:10):
, and I can put a lot of myfervor and my anger against it,
because I think that's where thewrath of God would go to.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So you've moved four times since you've been there.
You are in a city, there is acommunity around you, but we
know that you're not where youwant to be.
Yet You've kind of learnedabout another place that you
feel like you're being called to.
So what can you share aboutthese kind of next steps for you
?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, years ago, before even moving to this
country here, I was in the workof the Middle East and Muslims
and got to make many trips overto this part of the world prior,
and there was one city that Istill have not been to, but it
is a massive city with one ofthe lowest ratios of workers to
(20:56):
local population there, and it'sa place that the Lord has
continued to put on my heart,and now I live closer to it and
will hopefully visit in a coupleof weeks.
My heart and now I live closerto it and will hopefully visit
in a couple of weeks but it's aplace that has held a bookmark
in my heart in terms of prayerand intercession and in terms of
longing as well of what theLord could do in this place.
Just to speak more to thatratio, the city I'm currently in
(21:20):
is a big one, but there's alsoa lot of foreign, cross-cultural
workers here, like myself.
The ratio is about one foreignworker to every 200,000 local
friends.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So if you compare that to Austin, sure it's not
very much, but if you comparethat to the Middle East, it's a
pretty good ratio, Althoughstill.
Could you imagine if I woke upevery morning and thought, okay,
I have 200,000 people to gotalk to?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Mercifully, the spirit transcends those ratios.
But this other city that I hopeto move to, the ratio is a
little bit different.
It's one for every 3 million.
Oh my gosh.
This is a city that has had itsfair share of a lot of pain over
the years, has tremendousbiblical significance as well,
and the potential move there isone of those many things that in
(22:17):
my life reminds me of Psalm 127, unless the Lord is building
the house, its labors are goingto strive in vain.
Slightly paraphrased, but it'sone of those places that my
parents don't want me to move to.
I don't want to move to.
It's not comfortable.
The weather there has beendescribed as if someone's
blowing a hairdryer in your faceand then just throwing sand in
(22:39):
between you and the hairdryer.
But when I think about thesepromises of God that have felt
even stronger to me living herein the Middle East, these
promises of restoration ofliteral streams in the desert,
of hope, an actual hope thatdoesn't have to be deferred,
(22:59):
when I think about those things,copy and paste it onto this
other city.
It grows my eagerness and mylonging all the more.
City, it grows my eagerness andmy longing all the more.
If only I go, say, I go acouple weeks from now for a
weekend.
I pray and that's the only timeI ever go.
I feel very strongly that Iwant my prayers or my presence
or whatever sacrifice I can laydown to be for the city and
(23:24):
that's one of those things thatonly the spirit could prompt and
pull, because I just describedmany logistical reasons why it's
not pleasant to be there.
But there's something thathappens when the promises of God
met with the affection, theadoration of the people here
that I have met and of thesecultures, when those two things
(23:44):
come together.
I just want to be right therefor that reunion, right there,
when those two things cometogether.
I feel excited for the potentialrole in that city.
It is one of pioneering work.
It would be an adjective tothrow on that it's a newer place
.
It's ironic, it's an incrediblyold city but it's a newer place
where the goodness of Godhasn't been known for a really
(24:05):
long time and it's scary toconsider a role like that.
But those roles are often themost glamorized ones, right Like
in the global body of storiesthat we hear from the churches
it spreads.
Those are the exciting ones andwhat I'm trying to learn more
and more here and now is thepower of what Daniel got to do
(24:26):
in Babylon.
He was in captivity and frominside Babylon he was faithful
to God and he prayed and hedidn't do much before he got the
attention of the kingunfortunately negatively, but he
got the attention of the kingand that steady, daily
faithfulness.
I think of moms, honestly, whenI think of this type of
(24:48):
faithfulness that just keepsgoing.
That's what I want to grow in,that's what I want to do.
He's given me this vision and Ihave this hope to be one of the
very, very few Jesus followersin this other city.
But that's going to bepointless if there's no
faithfulness in the small things, right.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
So something I've learned so much about my life
here is, while I'm studyingArabic and I've been doing so
full-time for a year, it isstill a beast of a language.
People say it's like emptying abathtub, or maybe a pool, with a
little teaspoon, one teaspoonat a time.
Yeah, with a little teaspoon,teaspoon at a time.
Even after all of this work forlanguage, I know the best thing
(25:32):
that I can do for my friendshere isn't a perfectly
articulated argument of tellingthem the goodness of Christ, but
it's going to be through themencountering him, which maybe
I'm there to facilitate it,maybe I'm not, but it'll
certainly be through prayer,whether mine or the prayer of
others.
And the type of prayer that Imean is the kind that the
(25:55):
friends who carried theparalyzed man through the roof
right in front of Jesus.
They were up there cutting ahole, just probably yelling at
each other trying to figure itout, lowering this man in front
of Jesus without words that wecan see, in the middle of a
sermon, and just saying dosomething, jesus, do something.
This person that we love, thisbrother of ours, do something.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Let's get real for a minute here.
First question I want to askyou is have you felt like you
were in danger at any point?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
There were times where missiles were flying over
us a couple months ago and wewere hearing them getting shot
out of the sky.
Those are sorts of things whereyou think, okay, this is
probably going to be on the newstomorrow, but I rolled over and
fell right back asleep.
There's been a piece of Jesusin living here.
That's been really kind.
There is the fact of living ina city any city, same as I felt
(26:51):
in Austin, walking down SouthCongress as a single woman by
myself.
Sometimes, sure, you have somethoughts, but for no particular
reason.
No, I have felt quite safe here.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
There's a lot of different forms of human
trafficking and slavery andindentured servitude and
obviously even it's really badwith the sex trade and things
like that.
But there is some traffickingquite pervasive where you are,
which typically takes the formof bringing somebody from
another people group in, puttingthem into a job where you pay
(27:25):
them a very low wage.
You basically set up a systemwhere they owe you money to get
out.
They can't make enough money toever pay you.
You take their passport away sothey can't get out, and they
basically become a worker foryou.
Talk about how you'veencountered some of that since
you've been there.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yes, I started to see different groups of women
placed in different places.
Maybe they were cleaners at agym, maybe they were employees
at a certain salon, typicallyfrom Southeast Asia or from
Uganda, almost always fromUganda, and the first friend
that I made a connection withfrom that group was a Ugandan
woman.
At my gym I had lost my phonebecause I don't think maybe this
(28:07):
is to the point of me feelingreally safe here.
It's because I don't oftenthink about things too often and
I left my phone on the bench.
And half an hour later I comeback up to find my phone and I
see her and she's sweeping and Isay hi, friend, have you seen
my phone?
At first I tried to speak withher in Arabic quickly to find
out she doesn't speak Arabic andshe tells me she left the phone
(28:29):
with reception.
So I thank her profusely and itdidn't take long for us to
build a very close friendship.
I just visited her last week inher house.
She lives in a refugee home,though she's not a refugee, but
she lives in a refugee campdowntown with Sudanese,
palestinian, many, many peoplein a really rough situation.
(28:51):
I get to bring her food.
We get to talk about Jesusbeing from Uganda, she's very
familiar with Jesus, butculturally she comes from a
place that's very mixed.
Her father was Muslim, hermother was a Christian and she
doesn't exactly know where shefalls.
And yet she's come here andexperienced horrible, horrible
treatment due to her role anddue to the way that she's
(29:14):
visually different.
And we walked down the streettogether a couple of weeks ago
and she was practically skippingand she says Kate, when I'm
with you I just feel free.
And that made me really sadinitially to know that me
walking down the street as awoman who, of course, I'm a
minority here, but I'm also avery privileged minority, and
(29:38):
people when they hear I'm fromAmerica, they respect it
instantly.
And for her, coming from such adifferent background, we've
both been put here, we've bothfound ourselves in this city
where we are struggling with thelanguage and we're far from
family.
But our circumstances areradically different and I know
the road ahead for her is noteasy.
(30:00):
I've been to the many placesthat she's lived since being
here, each one of them harderand more infested than the next,
and this problem of humantrafficking is very strong here
and it's been a gift to get toshare the reality of it with
some of my Arab friends and I'llshare.
No, this woman cannot leavehere, and if she tries to leave,
(30:22):
she'll be in prison for sixmonths and then forced to pay
her plane ticket home.
This is a problem, and to seethe hearts of my friends get
stirred for this as well.
I'm very thankful that thereare some organizations here
doing this work.
But I've thought about you guys, I've thought about friends
that you've interviewed before,and I've thought about many
friends that I know have donework in Uganda.
So if this is a platform to askfor more economic development
(30:46):
in any sustainable way in thatcountry, oh no, you're hitting
home here.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You're hitting home here because we've been working
hard in Uganda for over 10 years.
It makes me think of likeThailand and Myanmar, where we
also do a lot of work there.
It's why we also work withorganizations who are going out
and putting in you know JVI,putting in justice hubs and
bringing legal help and bringingmilitary or former military
(31:10):
professional help into thosesituations.
But, man, friends out therelistening, if you're not
involved in some capacity insupporting organizations that
are fighting human traffickingtoday, like I just encourage you
to find a way into that.
Justice Ventures International,jvi, which I just brought up,
is a great one.
Global Child Advocates is onewe support.
Ashley Heiligman's been onbefore, which is working in
Thailand and Myanmar, and I justappreciate that.
(31:33):
Kate's bringing a real worldexample and think about what she
just said.
This woman's living in arefugee camp.
She's in a small, tiny littlespace with multiple other people
, no dignity, no opportunity forbettering her situation, and
her situation's gotten worsethree or four times since you've
known her over the last year.
It's not moving into a bettersituation, it's getting worse
(31:56):
and that's the reality forthousands, in fact millions, of
people around the world todayand, man, we have such a
responsibility to heed that calland get involved.
You started to hit on thisearlier about your Palestinian
friend who brought you over tospeak to her father, who wanted
to basically share, from anacademic perspective, their
(32:16):
majority religion, and reallythey were trying to recruit you
right.
So tell us what you can aboutthat story.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Marissa, if I had had some experience from my time in
the States living with Afghans,would be told constantly that,
sister, you would be such a goodMuslim, or countless other
things that I could tell werecoming from such a sweet place
of care for me and of honoringof me.
I once held hands with one ofmy Afghan friends and through
(32:45):
tears we both communicatedsister, I love you and I want
you in paradise with me, whatthey call heaven.
I want you with me, I want youto be part of this family, and
we both held hands, crying, notknowing how to get over this
impasse.
It's a tricky thing of havingsuch deep relationships with
friends from such differentworldviews.
(33:06):
There's tensions to hold, butthis Palestinian friend of mine
here we will call her Noor.
I've been friends with her fora long time and she's another
one whose English is fantastic.
She read War and Peace just forfun.
She's amazing.
So we've been talking abouttheological things for a long
(33:26):
time and I was at a cafe withher and shared the story of the
prodigal son.
And that's one of the manystories that, when you hear it
through Middle Eastern lens, itis revolutionary.
It's a story of a boy who ranaway.
Shamed, his family ends up in apig pen, which is the worst of
all places for a Muslim toimagine being the shame is
(33:48):
incomprehensible.
And he walks back to thisfather rehearsing a story,
practicing, muttering to himselfalong the road, and when he
looks up he sees his father, thepatriarch, running to him.
Every element of that blowsapart the Middle Eastern frame
of reference.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
She was sitting from the cafe trying to stop me
saying no, no, no, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
No way.
No, that would never happen.
Gives him the signet ring,gives him his robe.
He's running.
He wouldn't run, no way.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
It's insane.
And what we determined fromthat story was wow, the grace
and goodness of God is waylouder than our shame.
And after that story she saidyou have to meet my father Now.
I knew that her father was anIslamic scholar, so I thought oh
man, here we go.
So I went to her parents' houseand she had prepared lunch for
(34:44):
me.
So we sat down and ate, just meand her, for a while.
And after about three hours oflunch I thought well, maybe he's
busy today, but that was justthe warm up.
And he comes in, a very kind man, very tender.
His English is not as good ashis daughter's, so as we're
speaking, it's half Arabic, halfEnglish.
And when you speak of religiousmatters you don't use the local
(35:05):
dialect, you use this higherform of Arabic called Fusra.
That is really rich and poetic.
So he's talking and I'm gettinghalf of it, and for the rest of
it I'm trying to listen to Noorto see what he's saying.
But he goes through all thetalking points that Muslims
typically do the deity of Christor not, the reliability of
scripture or not, all thesedifferent talking points, and
(35:29):
this is one of those momentsthat I am praying under my
breath the entire time, notthinking that in that moment I'm
going to say something thatwill change his mind.
His career is in this work, butas I'm looking at Noor sitting
in the couch between uslistening, I'm just wondering
what's going on in her head asshe's hearing, for the first
time, no-transcript, and as weslow down the conversation again
(36:10):
.
That was another three hourslater.
He told me that he respectedhow much I listened and that I
said some things that would makehim think.
Now again, only the Spirit isgoing to make any change from
whatever I said.
I don't even remember what Isaid, but that was a very
interesting place to find myselfin.
I didn't expect to be therethat day.
What?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
are you thinking when you walk out of there?
When you walk out of that, Iwant to think that you're
thinking this is why I'm here,thank you for that at bad God.
That's, that's why I'm here,right.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
With some exhaustion.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yes, Understandably, understandably.
I'm so happy for you that yougot that opportunity and you
were able to sit in that momentand yeah, who knows, who knows
if something changes in his lifeor in her life or in both, or
if you get another chance tocontinue to speak into that
prayfully you do, but just forthose at-bats and just that
(36:57):
you're there making yourselfavailable to love people in that
way.
I have such great respect foryou for that.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I would love to share one more story of hope before
we wrap up, please.
I would love to share one morestory of hope before we wrap up,
please.
So this dear friend I mentionedbefore, ahlam, who has heard the
good news many times and hasexperienced the veil from the
enemy that keeps her from it.
We had a great conversationearlier in the year and as we
talked about faith and religionwhich is not a taboo topic here
(37:27):
it's weird if you don't bring upreligion.
So as we're talking about it, Iasked her when's the time you
felt the closest to God?
And she said there was a timein university where things were
really difficult and a lot wasgoing on.
But he felt really close to meand then she looks around her,
(37:47):
makes sure no one else islistening and kind of whispers
to me.
It was weird, but he felt likea friend to me and my heart
broke and soared all at once tohear that she had had this
experience of closeness,connection, longing for
relationship with God, and sheloved it.
But she was also scared of it.
(38:09):
That's not terminology usedwhatsoever in her religion.
So to share with her afterwards, I think that's exactly what
it's like and we read togetherthese stories of how he no
longer calls us servants butfriends.
And I asked her do you want totalk to him, do you want to
(38:29):
engage in prayer?
Can I pray over you?
Can I pray with you?
Would you want to talk to theGod who is your friend?
And she didn't want to speak.
That night we were in her car soI prayed over her instead and
just prayed simple truths of thelove of God over her, inviting
his loving presence into thatcar, and when I looked up she
(38:51):
was in tremendous, deep tears.
It's an incredible thing that Ihave to remember all the time
is such a privilege that wecarry that we know his character
, we know what he's like.
We don't know all of it, butman, we know what he's like.
He is so gentle and he hascompassion on the harassed and
(39:11):
helpless, those who are sheepwithout a shepherd.
And we've enjoyed that presenceand we can share that joyful
presence with people.
Not just points, not justarguments, but we share the
joyful presence of God with them.
That was a fun night.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Would you do me a favor Now?
You know we always pray at theend of the pod for everybody,
but could you in some capacitypray that prayer you had for her
in her car and ask God to be inthe car with the listeners and
in the office and on this runthat they're on right now,
wherever they are, just let thatfly.
Yeah, let's pray.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Jesus, you are.
Yeah, let's pray.
Jesus, you are the one who satwith sinners, who ate with us,
who came to our houses, sat atour living room table and dined
with us, and your kindness andyour gentleness is the only
(40:04):
thing that's going to make usholy, the only thing to help us
in this path of righteousnessthat we crave.
We want to be near you, god.
We want to honor you with ourlives, and I know it's not going
to be my best of intentions,it's not going to be my momentum
or my effort that does that.
It is the gentleness of Godthat will sustain me.
(40:26):
You say in your word thatgoodness and mercy will follow
us all the days of our life and,jesus, we just invite and
embrace that aspect of yourpresence with us, the presence
that longs to be with us, andyou've proven that in many ways.
In the light of that presence,jesus, everything else has to go
(40:48):
, fear has to leave.
In your name, jesus,self-proving, effort, striving.
You've given us a light yokeand an easy burden, and that's
what we want instead.
So we want to sit here andenjoy your presence, jesus.
So, wherever we are, would yougive us right now, in your
spirit, a taste of your goodnessa little bit more, an
(41:12):
overwhelming taste, or a littlebit?
We just want more of you and wehave tasted and seen that
you're good, so we trust you,amen.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
And amen.
And instead of ending instantly, I'm going to ask a question
because I know the listenerswill want to hear this Can we
count on you to come back foranother season and do this every
year?
Speaker 3 (41:35):
We'd love to, maybe from this other elusive city I
keep referencing.
That would be great.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Maybe from the other elusive city I think you've
referenced one as the mountaincity and one as something else.
So, hey, we'd love to keephaving you back and keep
journeying with you.
Um, you are there, you are atthe ends of the earth, you are
reaching the unreached, you arepart of God's supernatural
stories, you are one of the menand women he's called and it is
just too cool, um, to be a partof your journey.
(42:01):
So thank you for sharing itwith all of us.
Thank you so much, all right,god bless my friend with all of
us.
Thank you so much, all right,god bless my friend.
(42:23):
Wherever you listen.
Also, share with your family,your friends, your church, your
life group, small group, d group, wherever you do life.
And if you want to connect withus, find us on Instagram, at
unreachedpodcast, or email us atunreachedpodcast at gmailcom.
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