September 4, 2024 • 44 mins
Ever wondered how faith can spark societal transformation? Tune in as we welcome back Mark Tatlock to share supernatural stories of God's work among unreached people. We'll take you to Christ Seminary in South Africa, where local pastors like Sammy are being equipped to preach the Word and disciple their communities, leading to a wave of repentance and heart transformation in places like Soweto. Discover how integrating vocational skills with ministry efforts is creating sustainable development, celebrating God's remarkable work in South African townships and beyond.
Curious how a global pandemic can unexpectedly expand a missions movement? This episode uncovers the surprising ways technology and circumstances have amplified our training efforts. From the Philippines to Pakistan, over 500 pastors have been trained through Zoom in regions facing severe persecution. Learn about our new training ministry in Cuba and the translation of essential theological texts into languages like Farsi, Arabic, and Urdu, empowering local pastors and immigrant populations worldwide. Mark Tatlock shares incredible stories of pastors crossing cultural barriers to spread Christianity, underscoring a biblical mandate that transcends Western initiatives.
Explore the vital concept of generational faithfulness and passing the baton of spiritual commitment. Reflect on 6,000 years of biblically chronicled history and the importance of each generation's dedication to living for Christ. Hear inspiring contemporary ministry stories, such as a pastor in the Philippines reaching tribal groups and an individual in Nepal overcoming barriers to train others. We also provide practical advice on maintaining sound doctrine in church relationships and supporting church leaders. Join us as we celebrate God's divine involvement in global missions and discover how you can actively participate in His grand plan.
Follow @unreachedpodcast on Instagram for more!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
In Revelation 7, john shares his vision of heaven
with members from every tribe,tongue, people and language
standing in the throne roombefore the Lamb.
Yet today there are still over7,000 unreached people groups
around the world.
For the last six years myfamily and friends have been on
a journey to find, vet and fundthe task remaining.
(00:28):
Come journey with us to theends of the earth as we share
the supernatural stories of Godat work for the men and women he
has called to reach theunreached.
Hello friends, welcome back tothe Unreached Podcast.
Dustin Elliott here, your hostback with Mark Tatlock.
As promised, we did such a justbig picture review in the first
(00:53):
episode in this series of theMaster's Academy and the
Master's Seminary and GraceCommunity Church and how they're
structured, how they areequipping people locally, even
people that come to the statesto be trained, and how they're
sending people to support andwork alongside local pastors and
leaders.
And really at the heart of theirwork is training the pastor,
(01:17):
getting the pastor trained up,coached up on how to be really
true to the Word, how to walkand live in the integrity of the
Word and then to have the bodygrow and mature through that
leadership and teaching.
It was beautiful.
I can't imagine how many peoplewould love to look behind the
curtain of your church and yourorganizations and see how could
(01:38):
we do some things like Grace hasdone, because God has blessed
that work immensely.
And so today Mark's got stories.
Mark's been doing this fordecades.
He's been taking notes aboutwho and what stories he wants to
tell, and I can't wait to cuthim loose.
So, mark, let's get right to it.
Let's tell some stories of howGod's really changed people's
lives, the supernatural storiesof God at work among the
(02:01):
unreached around the world.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, well, it's great.
Let me start with just talkingabout our school in South Africa
.
So we've been there for about25 years in the northern part of
the country, started out bytraining village pastors.
Of course that's grown and nowthere's satellite locations
opening up in places like CapeTown and Durban and so forth.
But just a couple of coolstories.
(02:24):
So there's a guy named SammyLobato who came to Christ
Seminary and got trained, buthe's from Soweto, which is, of
course, one of the best knowntownships as far as you know, a
community under apartheid thatwas segregated and put within
the confines of a community thatreally is like a slum.
(02:47):
And Sammy came to ChristSeminary and then went back to
Soweto and just began to preachthe word and disciple men and
his wife women, matter of fact,his wife's amazing you should
hear her testimony and just tosee that church begin to
flourish and then to talk aboutlocal outreach and then you
(03:07):
begin to see even where acommunity begins to change
because they repent.
So many efforts today to bringcommunity development and change
are trying to be achieved fromthe outside Change systems and
structures and all the rest ofit but it's really not until the
heart transforms and peoplerepent, that you begin to see
(03:29):
they turn from crime, they turnfrom whatever other you know the
addiction or pattern is, oreven their thinking about race
and issues like that.
So I love talking to Sammybecause if you were to visit his
church today you would hear himpreach, just following the same
example of men like JohnMacArthur and many other
(03:49):
expositors, verse by verse,going through the Word of God.
But then you look at what'shappening in Soweto around them,
and now they're plantinganother church in Soweto.
And now they're working with afellowship of township pastors
who also graduated from ChristSeminary to support one another.
And now they've opened up likea Bible Institute-level training
(04:13):
out of their own church Whoa,let's go.
How great is that that's?
Phenomenal, you're just seeingchurch members' lives being
transformed and, as I've alreadysaid, and I just like to say,
it's the truth that transforms.
You know, there has to be someintentionality and framework and
some you know trellis aspect tothat.
(04:33):
It's not that you don't have tohave a strategy and all the
rest of that, but at the coreit's got to be work that
advances the truth in the livesof people.
So praise God for what he'sdoing today in the townships
across South Africa.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
A lot of the concept around the business as missions
movement, which I think is beingrenamed and rethought, and it's
really just doing life as afollower of Christ through your
vocation, et cetera.
But a lot of that is like howdo you bring economy, how do you
bring the sustainability andbusiness and a whole holistic or
(05:08):
comprehensive to use one ofyour words framework to a
community, as opposed tohandouts which maybe just end up
resulting in the people gettingused to handouts and not really
ever getting a chance to get toknow the Lord and grow on their
own.
So there's a version of whatSammy's doing.
It sounds like that'sempowering and it's educating
(05:32):
and it's getting people out ofmaybe a history or a lineage of
their family's framework beinglimited and what they can do and
really unlocking them andunleashing them to go realize
something they couldn't do ontheir own.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Absolutely, and one of the things that you do in a
context like that is you tapinto your church members'
vocational skill set.
So for instance, a lot of thefolks in that context can't
advance academically becausethey can't read Well to start a
reading program in your localchurch that is staffed by some
(06:01):
of your church members who areschool teachers, or creating a
tutoring program, it's employingyour church members in a way
that meets a particular need andserves people in a really
genuine loving way but alsofacilitates that truth being
taught and applied in their ownlife.
(06:22):
And I love it when you see thatall working together.
But let me tell you anotherstory, cause we were talking
last week about new horizonopportunities into, uh,
restricted access or unreachedpeople groups.
So I just heard this testimonyuh again, christ seminary, south
Africa.
Now we all know that China,through its bridge and tunnels
(06:46):
program and everything thatthey're doing to try to pour
money into developing countries,particularly in places like
Africa.
If you look today, a lot ofAfrican countries have a large
Chinese immigrant population whohave been sent there to do
these infrastructure projects,and that's true in South Africa.
So there's a testimony of a guysent from atheistic China as
(07:12):
part of one of these projects.
I believe he's in theJohannesburg area and he started
hearing sound preaching on theradio and got directed to our
school there.
He went through the schoolprogram.
But he's actually pastoring aChinese church in South Africa
(07:32):
that he has planted amongimmigrants from China, that
China spent there and thatchurch is growing.
People are coming to faith,baptisms and things like that.
But he's preaching in Chinese,in Mandarin.
And now he's taking theresources that we're translating
for our schools in Chinesecontext and he's using those
(07:55):
from one part of the world andreading it into his local
ministry in South Africa and Ithought, yeah, that's just to
the glory of God.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well, just imagine that guy leaving right, Okay,
hey, honey, fam, I'm going, I'mgoing to go build some bridges
and do these things and advancethe cause of, you know, our
government, uh, and and theirand their purposes.
And then he got there and hejust got rerouted, Right, Uh,
that is awesome, and that's thekind of thing I'm starting to
hear about.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I can give you some other examples.
Many of us can go back to theperiod of COVID where we were
all living on Zoom and so a lotof our training for a period of
time in some countries had toutilize Zoom.
Well, man that kicked the dooropen.
So our school in thePhilippines.
There was one guy who'dimmigrated from Pakistan to the
Philippines and had beenintroduced to our training
ministry there, so he was ableto get involved there.
But when they start teachingthrough Zoom, he said, hey, I've
(08:51):
got friends who are pastorsback in Pakistan.
Could they join the trainingvia Zoom?
Wow, okay, let's do that.
So there were six men, sixpastors, who joined the training
.
They completed the program.
When the restrictions wereremoved for travel,
international travel after COVID, they extended an invitation to
(09:15):
our faculty to come intoPakistan and begin to train
pastors in Pakistan.
Well, we never expected that.
We didn't go looking for that.
That's that invitation I wasdescribing last week.
And so we did that.
And the first trip in boy, ourfaculty member was there for
several weeks and he went tofive cities, did conferences on
(09:39):
exposition, preaching and otherbiblical topics, preaching and
other biblical topics, and thatresulted in the birthing of a
new training ministry inPakistan.
And while he was there, thatfirst trip, they had over 500
pastors come out for thedifferent training events that
(09:59):
were set up, all by nationalPakistani pastors, and these are
men definitely underpersecution.
I don't have time to tell you,but I could tell you explicit
and specific testimonies ofBible burning, men being killed,
assaults on their churchbuildings and things like this.
And to be given the opportunityto serve these men, totally,
(10:23):
totally undeserved certainly,but a great joy to do what we
can, because they're countingthe cost every day.
What?
What cost are we facing, nodoubt.
So all we can do to stand withthem and encourage them.
So the lord opened up pakistan.
Same thing happened in cubarecently.
We had one student studying ina school in Latin America.
(10:45):
He completed the Master's ofDivinity-level training there,
returned home there's a networkof evangelical churches within
Cuba.
At that time he just took thevideo recordings of the lectures
.
That resulted then in aninvitation and we're doing our
first pastor's conference inCuba this fall with our faculty
(11:06):
from three different trainingcenters, spanish-speaking
training centers in latinamerica who are going in to to
respond to that need.
So these are examples of what'sbecoming a pattern and we're
just trying to be faithful tokeep up with it.
But in in all those cases it'snot even really Americans behind
it.
These are nationals going intocontexts that are within their
(11:31):
region.
So there are many, many moreexamples of that.
The other thing, kind of relatedto the restricted access, is in
many places we realize early on, if you're going to train
church leaders, they needtextbooks, they need theological
resources, they needcommentaries to prepare their
sermons, and so years ago wejust started translating a book
(11:58):
here or a book there.
Three years ago we realized,boy, we're doing a lot more of
this than we realized.
And if we could organizeourselves to work with Christian
publishers to secure contractsnot just in one language but
multiple languages.
So we opened up a globalpublishing division to respond
to the requests from the fieldto translate Christian books and
(12:21):
commentaries, and that's ledinto translation MacArthur Study
Bible into languages and allkinds of things, and not just
print versions but electronic ordigital libraries.
We also get contracts for audiobooks and media content, videos
(12:41):
and things like that.
So now we're positioned totranslate these resources.
What's happening?
Because we're translating intolanguages like Farsi and Arabic
and Urdu and Bahasa, and I couldgo on and on.
I think we're working in about40, 45 languages right now.
(13:02):
Well, those resources that weredesigned for a particular
cultural context now becomeavailable when there's an
outreach to an immigrantpopulation in another part of
the world.
And I saw a book recently, ourRussian speaking school, one of
the faculty members, wrote abook on the incarnation and
(13:25):
speak about the duty of Christ,and that book was translated
into Arabic, urdu and Farsi.
And I got a video clip actuallyof the book coming off the
press in Iran and there were nofaces, no names, it was just the
book coming off the press withthe workers there.
And that's the ability we havein today's generation using
(13:50):
technology and distributingcontent and resources.
And there's more I could seethere, but this whole area of
restricted access, it's notrestricted.
It might be in the terms ofsending an American missionary,
but there are other doors thatare wide open.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
We talked about that with Andrew Scott.
Right, we've been trying tocome in through a back door or a
top window when the front dooris wide open.
And another story we told onthe podcast was something that
Bless got to help fund trainingUkrainian pastors who were able
to get into other countries thatwe weren't able to get into.
And I have an image in my headwhich I'll never forget of 22
(14:29):
baptisms in Iran via one of theUkrainian pastors that went
through that training and, ofcourse, again, faces were
blurred out.
But it's happening, it'sworking, it's a beam it off, a
satellite kind of a version ofwe've got the education and some
resources et cetera.
Train and equip over here, thenthey go into there.
But you brought up a wholenother framework for this
(14:50):
happening, which is one peoplegroup traveling to a different
people group.
That's not our people group,but that we happen to be working
in.
And now they're getting accessand they're planning churches
and leading their people toChrist in their own language, in
their own culture, in adifferent culture.
Right, I mean, that's right.
You can't script that.
(15:13):
You don't know that that'sgoing to happen, right?
No, but it's biblical.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
When people think biblically and they think about
God's calling the church andindividuals to make disciples of
the nations.
That's not exclusively aWestern mandate, that's just a
biblical mandate to the church.
So I believe you and I in ourgeneration may witness the
(15:39):
greatest global missionsmovement in the history of the
church and we have moreopportunities by way of use of
technology and transportation,things like that, and I will add
to it.
I actually think we're going tosee more and more limited
opportunities for Westernmissionaries to go into those
contexts.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
But we have a role to play.
Absolutely.
It's a different role.
Can I ask you, just because ofyour time in the Word and your
time teaching the Word,something that I think we just
don't frame in context?
You said in our generation.
So I teach through the Biblewith a discipleship group every
year.
I get six, eight guys.
Every year.
We go Genesis to Maps when youstart Matthew and you go to look
(16:20):
at the genealogies and you see14 generations from Abraham to
King David and then 14generations from King David to
the Messiah.
When you talk about the frameof how many generations they've
really been in human history,can you give some context to
that?
Because I think we feel likesome things are ancient and
distant and so so long ago.
(16:42):
But 2000 years ago is not thatlong ago really.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I won't speak for you , but for me.
As I get older, I have agreater appreciation that things
weren't that long ago.
I remember names and people andfaces that others would see, as
you know, in ancient history,and I'm like, no, I knew those
people, and so some of us bridgegenerations to generations, but
, biblically speaking, and I'mlike, no, I knew those people,
and so some of us bridgegenerations to generations.
But, biblically speaking andI'm a young earth guy that's our
(17:09):
position we're looking at about6,000 years of human history
and it's all chronicalbiblically and it's the same
principle you're alluding to.
It's generation to generationto generation.
One of my favorite references tothis is the testimony of Joshua
in Joshua, chapter 22,.
Right, they led the conquest,you know.
(17:32):
They purged the nation, thepromised land, of all the
idolatrous, people, groups thatwere in the land.
That's what was really takingplace in the conquest, so they
could fulfill being in thecenter of the land was really
taking place in the conquest.
So they could fulfill being inthe center of the land.
Ezekiel as a testimony to thenations, to the one true God,
jehovah.
So he fulfills all that.
What does he do at the end ofhis life, before he dies, he
(17:52):
calls the whole nation togetherand he rehearses the Abrahamic
covenant, reminds the peoplewhat they're called to.
But there's this really sweet,sweet verse at the end of
chapter 22, and it says that thepeople remain faithful for as
long as the generation of Joshuaand those leaders lived,
(18:15):
meaning it only lasts onegeneration as far as
faithfulness.
Every generation has todetermine that they're going to
be committed in their generationto live for Christ, to stand
for the truth and make sure thatif there's a need to fight for
the truth, they fight that fight.
(18:37):
And I think by linking I was ahistory major personally.
So I think in these terms thatit's the passing of the baton
from generation to generationand that's why we can't make
more difficult Christ's strategy.
I mean 12 guys and then to talkabout what we're talking about
today, 2,000 years later, thatdoesn't make sense to human
(18:59):
wisdom.
It makes perfect sense to themind of God about faithfulness.
While numbers are exciting, Ithink they give testimony to how
God is at work.
The subtle mistake we make is wemake success.
We define success by numbers.
As Americans and Westerners,eager is always better.
The principle we see inscripture is be faithful to
(19:21):
first things God will cause, thegrowth God will further, the
he's going to build his church.
You and I are not going to dothat.
So I think what you want to dois give every generation a call
to be faithful to thosegenerations who come behind us,
to that same commitment and thentrust the Lord.
(19:45):
And when there's wonderfulnumbers fantastic and when
there's not, knowing this isGod's purpose in His season, my
standard of success isfaithfulness to the Lord.
That's what he's going to holdme accountable to.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Let's go back to maybe what's your favorite story
or two over the last 30 yearsthat you haven't had a chance to
tell anybody in a while.
You're like, oh man, I rememberthis one.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, a couple come to mind.
So, going to this othercategory we've been discussing,
there's restricted access.
Then there's this idea ofunreached people, groups and the
nationals we're seeing beingtrained and sent out.
So I was in the Philippineslast year and we have locations
both in the Northern islands andthe Southern islands.
(20:29):
So I was down in Mindanao and Iwas in the capital of Davao
city and I was sitting acrossfrom a pastor that works with us
and he was like I got to tellyou what's going on.
He said we're training here inthe city, but he says my passion
is to reach these tribal groupsthat are not accessible to us
in the city.
But he says my passion is toreach these tribal groups that
are not accessible to us in thecity.
So he says for the last twoyears I've been taking all the
(20:51):
content, I've been learning andI've been going out to these
tribal groups and I've beenpassing that on to pastors in
these rural contexts and he goesI didn't even ask you, but I'm
taking some of the curriculumand some of the resources and
I'm translating that into theirlocal dialect and I'm like
praise the Lord, you know you'redoing it yourself because you
(21:16):
understand there's a stewardshipof being trained and equipped
and you're stepping into placesI could never go and it would
take a decade for an American toget his training.
Raise support, learn thenational language, learn the
local dialect you know and thentry to have an effective
ministry.
(21:36):
Right, right and he's going.
I've got 50 pastors and churchleaders that I'm training.
Same thing happened in Nepal.
A student that I didn't evenknow was doing this.
He comes to me.
Here's a great story.
His name is Ben.
Ben had been incarcerated andcouldn't even meet the
(21:57):
enrollment standards at theMaster's University, oh goodness
.
But he had married a graduateof the school that I'd had as a
student years ago, and theywalked in my door one day and
they said boy, I can't even meetthe enrollment standards.
Could I just audit Bibleclasses?
I want to serve the Lord and Ineed to know the scriptures.
I said, well, sure, we can dothat for you, wasn't maybe?
(22:20):
Two years later I heard thatthey had made a decision to go
to Nepal and I thought, man,that's fantastic, but you know
you get busy.
I lost track communicating withthem.
Well, they came into town lastyear and said can we go to
breakfast?
We want to tell you what God'sbeen doing.
I said okay.
So we sat down for breakfastand they said look we, this
(22:41):
guy's so humble, you know,having been in prison.
He's like I don't have a lot tooffer, so why don't I go where
nobody else is willing to go?
So he took his wife up to themost remote region of Nepal, to
a valley where there's 12 tribes, and he found a local pastor
who'd been trained down inKathmandu in the city, but he's
(23:02):
from this region, and they wentup there and they just started
to come alongside and try toencourage the pastors there.
They realized that the peoplewere not very doctrinally sound.
So they took our curriculum,fundamentals of the Faith, which
we developed at Grace Church,fof, and we use it with new
converts in our church as partof our membership process, and
(23:26):
they translated it into Nepaleseup there and they were just
using it and they said right nowwe've been able to actually
establish churches in four ofthe 12 tribes, but we have
invitations from all 12 to comein and to train believers using
(23:46):
FOS.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That's supernatural up there, because we know the
system up there, the shamans andhow that works and the way that
people are oppressed.
What you're saying is notnormal in that part of the world
, mark.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well, I've said there my jaw's dropped I love these
guys, I'm so proud of them.
It's personal to me, these arefriends, these are students.
But I just didn't know what Godwas doing.
And they were kind enough totell me.
They said do you know what ourdream would be?
It would be to translate someof MacArthur's books and
eventually the MacArthur StudyBible and our systematic
(24:20):
theology into the local language.
And I said well, listen, whileall that's been going on, we've
started this whole globalpublishing office and we're
getting contracts for all thoseworks.
Right now, would you like thoseto do in your language?
And I said, not only that,we've been raising funds to give
grants to translate those works, to give grants to translate
(24:46):
those words.
And they just sat there and theyjust began to cry what else
could you do?
Because they were like wedidn't come to ask for anything,
we just wanted you to know whatGod's doing.
And this was in our hearts andwe weren't even sure we should
mention it to you.
We just were going to ask youto pray for us.
We had no idea.
Well, since then, you know,we've connected them, we've got
(25:09):
the contracts, those things arein the process of being
translated, and to know that youknow our little effort here can
undergird their work becausethey were willing to go to the
most difficult places and God isopening up doors of ministry.
And sometimes you just sit andyou weep with your friends as to
(25:30):
what God's doing and where youget to help each other.
It's humbling, it's exciting.
I can't wait to get out of bedevery morning because you just
hear these kinds of stories andyou just know I don't have to
worry about it.
God's got this.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You know, something I want the listeners not to miss
on this is if you're notdiscipling and leading and
teaching and raising up otherpeople who are discipling and
leading and teaching, you willnot have these stories to tell.
You'll hear other people'sstories, but you won't have a
part in them.
And a beautiful gift that God'sgiving you, Mark.
(26:08):
He's giving you back evidenceof fruit downstream, of your
faithfulness and yourstorytelling and your teaching.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well, you know what?
It's a little foretaste ofheaven for all of us, right With
all the unfolding of thosestories and testimonies, and the
purposes of Christ become kindof revealed to us, and all those
generations you alluded tobefore.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So that's God's grace , isn't it, to just give us
little stories and littleinsights to it and part of the
reason for the podcast, mark, isyou know, fruit doesn't happen
right when you get in the field.
Necessarily You're notnecessarily going to walk right
into your first convert,believer, disciple and church
plant and all that.
A lot of that takes, sometimesyears, and I want the other
(26:54):
workers that hear this to knowfruit is happening.
It may not be right off yourvine at the moment, but stay
faithful and stay true andcontinue the work that God's
called you to and in His perfecttiming it will.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, please, I want to do the same Encourage
faithfulness.
Look, don't be tempted to takeshortcuts.
Those shortcuts are going tolead to real long-term.
It's going to lead tocompromise in the church.
It's going to lead to confusion.
It's going to lead to problemsthat you don't want to be the
result of your ministry.
(27:28):
I tell guys we can't get aheadof God where he's going to grow
his church.
There are some places where thechurch, the missions work, has
been going on for generationsand we work with tons of pastors
who want to be trained.
There's other places we're justgoing to be faithful to church
planting for 20 years beforethere's a handful of pastors to
(27:51):
train.
So we just have to do the workGod's called, you know, in each
cultural context, and not loseheart, but recognize that our
pragmatism, in our Americanculture, always is looking for
the most efficient and quickestway to achieve the outcome.
And what that will lead you todo is to adopt shortcuts that
(28:13):
masquerade as good strategy.
But I'm telling you some of thethings we see in the rapid
church planting movement, or DMMmovement, things like this.
I'm concerned because they'recalling things churches for the
sake of claiming hey, we planted10,000 churches last year and
(28:34):
I'm like what's your definitionof a church?
And let alone if you've gotpeople who claim to be
Christians now they'revulnerable to false teaching and
they have no discernment andyou're just taking a hands-off
approach saying, hey, check, ourjob is done.
That's a shortcut to thebiblical methodology and I feel
(28:55):
we, as teachers before the Lordare accountable, and I include
missionaries, pastors, churchleaders.
Very biblical and I'll tell youwhat.
If we tee people up to bedeceived by false teaching and
error and everything else, wemay tell stories in our
newsletters.
Today, it's going to be adifferent matter when we stand
(29:17):
before the Lord and have to giveaccount.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
To speak to the listener that maybe isn't at a
church that's got a Bible openon the pulpit that's going verse
by verse and word by word, andexpository, teaching, observe,
interpret, apply.
What do they need to look forin a church?
What do they need to getplugged into or what do they
need to question, maybe at theirchurch, that maybe they're
there as somebody that can helpredirect?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Sure, yeah, we hear from a lot of people both here
in the US and around the world.
I just can't find a good church.
Well, that's not an excuse tonot plug in and make a
contribution to your own localchurch.
Find the church that is assound as possible and had the
long view in mind.
Now, today, you can have accessto sound teaching through media
(30:04):
and internet and things likethat, so you can feed your own
soul, your, your spouse's soul,your kids, in a way that wasn't
possible before.
But then don't abandon thelocal church.
Right, be faithful.
Now, if they're teaching errorand all kinds of things, instead
of coming in with a big, giantbat and trying to take everybody
(30:28):
out and confront them,establish yourself as somebody
who loves people, is faithful,you're trustworthy, and then
just begin to do your very bestto pray for the pastoral
leadership.
What I found in many timesthese men love Christ who are
pastoring these churches.
They've never had the privilegeof being effectively trained
(30:51):
and they bought into whatevertheir denomination or their
movement is promoting.
But when they're presented withsound teaching many of them
I've been in the room withpastors like this who just begin
to weep Because they realizeI've not been teaching the truth
to my flock.
I didn't know any better.
(31:12):
So don't make them the enemyout of the gate.
Don't be the critic and thefeud, be the one who's attacking
them.
Come alongside them, invitethem to a conference or share a
resource with them, and do it ina humble manner.
Now they may come out on theother end and go no, I'm defiant
, I'm committed to this doctrine.
(31:33):
Well, okay, that's probably achurch you can't stay in for a
long term because you don't havea pastor who's teachable.
But if you've got a teachableguy, be patient, have a long
view of mind, come alongsidethem, give them resources, be an
aid to them, and be cautiousthat if you start talking to
(31:55):
other people and critiquingtheir sermons and you start
discipling people and you keeppointing your finger at
everything that's wrong withyour church, it's going to make
it very difficult for the churchleaders to see you as someone
who's committed to their futurebenefit and growth.
Now, sometimes, dustin, I'm justgoing to say sometimes, after
(32:17):
you've done that and we do thatall over the world I told you
before last week that our guysgo in and serve under national
pastors.
A lot of them haven't beentrained yet.
So sometimes, though, aftermore and more people are trained
, it does lead to a point ofseparation where you humbly
(32:38):
agree.
You know what.
There's not sound preaching inthis church.
It may be time to plant abiblical church, but we don't
encourage guys to do that rightaway.
We encourage them after everyeffort's been made to love and
support their local pastors.
And I want to add one thoughtFor those who are working around
the world in their own localcontext I'm talking about
(32:59):
American missionaries and youfeel like there's not a good
biblical church that you cansend people to look.
You're called to be a member ofa local church, and I've been
in places with missionaries whosaid we're not plugged into any
local church, we just meet as agroup of families or
missionaries.
And I said we're not pluggedinto any local church, we just
meet as a group of families ormissionaries.
And I said you know that?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
church needs you.
Yeah, how do people get engaged?
We believe in what you're doing.
I'll just you know what littlebit my endorsement and Clint's
and the Unreached podcast hashere, but we love what y'all are
doing.
We're so supportive.
What can people do, whetherthey're local in the West or
whether they're around the world?
How can they get to know you?
(33:39):
How can they get to aconference?
How can they access yourcontent?
Where do they go next to go?
Man, there's some good stuffhere I really need to get into.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Well, let me say, first of all, there's a lot of
good ministries out there.
I actually think there's kindof an exciting reform movement
within evangelical missions toreturn back to biblical
convictions.
So we're not the only one Iwant to say, but as far as our
ministry, I appreciate thequestion.
A few things.
As you alluded to again lastweek, a lot of pastors are
(34:12):
saying boy, how do I get mymissions program in line with my
own convictions or theconvictions of the elders?
A lot of missions programsthey're delegated downstream
people with good intentions butyou've obligated a lot of money
and a lot of resources of yourlocal church that if you press
into you might find those peopledon't even teach what you teach
(34:34):
.
They're not working through alocal church.
So one of the things that wejust like to offer people is a
resource that we have availableon our website and it's just a
little pamphlet entitled how toBuild Effective Missions
Programs for the Local Church,and what it really is is just a
survey we did of churches whowent through the process of what
(34:55):
questions do you ask toevaluate your church and then
what's a process that educatesyour church missions leadership
so then they can make discerningquestions.
That's available on our website, tmaiorg, and you can go there
Now.
Other ways to get engaged Ifyou would like to know more
(35:16):
about a work in a particularcountry, we list all of our
training centers on our websiteand we have a couple of ways
people get invaped.
We invite everybody to pray andthat's not just a throwaway.
For us, that's number one.
Based on Colossians 4, paulsays he urges us to pray
unceasingly that God would openup a door for the gospel.
(35:36):
Prayer is number one and wewill share with anybody prayer
requests from around the worldso they can join us in that
endeavor.
We just finished an annualcampaign.
It's not a fundraising campaign, but it was called Together we
Pray and it was a global prayercampaign to engage people to
(35:56):
pray with us.
So all those resources areavailable online in prayer
request.
Some are saying, hey, I'mlooking to invest my resources
in a place that I trust and Iwill apologize.
We need help.
The ministry is growing and webelieve we're a trusted ministry
you can rely on.
So if you want to givefinancially, you can certainly
(36:20):
do that.
You can give to a number offunds where we provide grants to
provide scholarships to ourtraining centers.
You can also work with yourlocal church and bring to your
local church what we call achurch partnership program,
where your church what we call achurch partnership program,
where your church can adopt atraining center and the students
(36:41):
in that training center gettestimonies on a regular basis,
pray for them.
You can send a short-termmissions trip.
You can send your pastor tospeak at a conference.
There's a lot of things thatyou can do in partnership
through your local church.
Some events that you can lookforward to we actually have a
one-day pre-conference to ourShepherds Conference in March
(37:01):
every year, called the TMAIInternational Symposium.
We bring all of ourmissionaries and school leaders
back for that conference and wehad about 1,200 people gathered
last year and you spend all daywith our international leaders,
hearing testimonies, talkingabout trends and missions,
what's happening in these areasof Bible translation, church
(37:23):
planting and so forth, and findways to partner and engage.
You can come to the ShepherdsConference because there's a lot
of things going on related tomissions at that time.
But we also have some regionalevents that we host that are
like a one-day missionsconference and if churches are
interested in inviting us tocome and do that, we're happy to
(37:43):
serve them in that regard.
So I think you get the idea.
There's a lot of ways ofconnecting.
But one last thing I willmention that we're excited about
to strengthen local churches'biblical convictions and
involvement in missions.
We've just completed a two-yearproject to write a missions
textbook.
It's entitled Biblical MissionsPrinciples, priorities and
(38:06):
Practices.
There's a course that goesalong with it and a workbook
book and you can use it in asmall group format in your local
church or, if your church has aBible Institute program, as a
class, or you can use it a localBible college or Christian
university can use it for anundergrad class, or it can be
(38:26):
used for a graduate levelmissions course at a seminary.
The workbook has designed allthe assignments and questions by
context small group BibleInstitute all the way up and so
you can use it also as aresource for people going to the
mission field in your localchurch who want to get a
(38:48):
stronger biblical perspective onmissions.
So that's going to come outnext February, february 2025.
Missions so that's going to comeout next February, february
2025.
And you'll get the book, theworkbook, and then we're going
to launch what we call theCenter for Biblical Missions and
(39:09):
that's going to be a web-basedplatform to host content on
issues that the global churchbases in their context
theological issues, ministryissues, missiological issues and
we'll continue to populate thatwith more content, as that's
created by our guys around theworld, and so we're just trying
to create content that can beused by local churches to, let's
just say, increase theirmission's literacy and equip
(39:32):
their people to make gooddecisions by way of stewarding
their prayers, their financesand their people for the kingdom
.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Outstanding, so there's a lot of on-ramps.
There's also, I think, a lessonhere we don't have to reinvent
the wheel, and I want to saythis too this has bothered me
for a long time.
I work more in the financialindustry, and asking someone to
support you or partner with youfinancially should not be
something that you are reservedabout doing.
(40:00):
And I'm not talking about you,Mark, I'm talking about
everybody.
You're blessing them with anopportunity to be part of
something bigger than themselves.
That is to be celebrated.
It should be something thatyou're excited about.
One of my favorite kind offundraising quotes that God gave
me years ago was you know, casta vision big enough that people
can see themselves in it andshow them how they can be a part
(40:21):
of it.
And then stay connected to themwhen you do Tell them the
stories, get back to them withwhat's really happening, Give
them something to talk aboutwhen they're at their next
gathering with a group of peopleand say man, I got to be a part
of supporting this ministry andthis is what happened.
There's a guy that came fromChina to build bridges and now
he's become a Christian and he'sleading a church.
And I get to give financiallyto this and I get to hear about
(40:42):
it.
And what are y'all doing withyour money?
By the way, it's not yoursanyway, it's God's money.
I end up on a little bit of atangent there, but there's like
2,300 verses in the Bible aboutmoney.
It's an important topic.
It's not to be missed.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
I used to feel a little sheepish about asking
people to give and someonehelped me, just like you're just
saying wait a second.
If that's God's sovereign callon those people's life, it's
actually their ministry.
You're hindering their abilityto fulfill their ministry and
this is God's work.
It's not mine, it's not TMAI,it's about the work of the
(41:16):
kingdom.
And, boy, I love our donors andpartners, prayer or financial,
matter of fact, we're committedto praying for them.
We just finished our staffmeeting an hour ago and we pray
every week through a long listof personal prayer requests for
our donors, because we don'twant to be one sided.
We want to serve them, givethem good data, good information
(41:37):
.
We give all the financialreporting, so there's
accountability and integrity,but we want to pray for you and
these are requests.
They're telling me, man, mymarriage is struggling, I have
an unbelieving kid, I lost myjob, I've got health issues, and
we just want to join with themin caring to meet their needs.
They're meeting our needs andwe share those prayer requests,
(41:59):
with their permission, also withthose around the world.
So our guys who are benefitingfrom their gifts, are praying
back for the donors at the sametime.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
So we're all in this together.
Let me just thank you, mark.
Thank you for your life, thankyou for your ministry, thank you
for your leadership, thank youfor sharing the framework and
the stories, and, to guys likeSammy and Ben and others that I
know, there's many stories wedidn't get to today.
There's also many stories thatare yet to be written and soon
to be told.
(42:28):
Let me pray for everybody as wego out, mark, thank you again.
Father, just thinking aboutthose stories yet to be told,
thinking about the chapters yetto be told, thinking about the
chapters yet to be written,thinking about what you've
equipped us with time, talentand treasure.
We all have a unique combinationof time, talent and treasure.
We're all called to align ourlives to your will.
(42:48):
We all have a role to play.
So keep revealing to us throughprayer, through your word,
through small groups andd-groups and life groups, and
such.
Keep revealing to us throughprayer, through your word,
through small groups andd-groups and life groups and
such.
Keep revealing to us that plan.
Keep revealing to us our rolein it and how we can be both
useful today and how we can beteaching and reproducing others
so that they can continue to dothe good work, and we thank you
(43:10):
for Mark, we thank you for JohnMacArthur, we thank you for the
different organizations and allof the branches coming off the
vine.
Lord, it's amazing to see howyou put this all together, and
the fact that you let us be apart of it is so humbling and
it's the greatest joy of ourlives.
It's in your name we pray, amen.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Thank you for listening to Unreached.
Our sincere desire is that whatyou've heard today will cause
you to see the mission of Goddifferently and your role in it
more clearly.
If this adds value for you andwe hope it does would you please
rate and review the podcastwherever you listen.
Also, share with your family,your friends, your church, your
life group, small group, d group, wherever you do life, and if
(43:49):
you want to connect with us,find us on Instagram at
unreached podcast, or email usus at unreachedpodcast at
gmailcom you.
In Revelation 7, john shares his vision of heaven
with members from every tribe,tongue, people and language
standing in the throne roombefore the Lamb.
Yet today there are still over7,000 unreached people groups
around the world.
For the last six years myfamily and friends have been on
a journey to find, vet and fundthe task remaining.
(00:28):
Come journey with us to theends of the earth as we share
the supernatural stories of Godat work for the men and women he
has called to reach theunreached.
Hello friends, welcome back tothe Unreached Podcast.
Dustin Elliott here, your hostback with Mark Tatlock.
As promised, we did such a justbig picture review in the first
(00:53):
episode in this series of theMaster's Academy and the
Master's Seminary and GraceCommunity Church and how they're
structured, how they areequipping people locally, even
people that come to the statesto be trained, and how they're
sending people to support andwork alongside local pastors and
leaders.
And really at the heart of theirwork is training the pastor,
(01:17):
getting the pastor trained up,coached up on how to be really
true to the Word, how to walkand live in the integrity of the
Word and then to have the bodygrow and mature through that
leadership and teaching.
It was beautiful.
I can't imagine how many peoplewould love to look behind the
curtain of your church and yourorganizations and see how could
(01:38):
we do some things like Grace hasdone, because God has blessed
that work immensely.
And so today Mark's got stories.
Mark's been doing this fordecades.
He's been taking notes aboutwho and what stories he wants to
tell, and I can't wait to cuthim loose.
So, mark, let's get right to it.
Let's tell some stories of howGod's really changed people's
lives, the supernatural storiesof God at work among the
(02:01):
unreached around the world.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, well, it's great.
Let me start with just talkingabout our school in South Africa
.
So we've been there for about25 years in the northern part of
the country, started out bytraining village pastors.
Of course that's grown and nowthere's satellite locations
opening up in places like CapeTown and Durban and so forth.
But just a couple of coolstories.
(02:24):
So there's a guy named SammyLobato who came to Christ
Seminary and got trained, buthe's from Soweto, which is, of
course, one of the best knowntownships as far as you know, a
community under apartheid thatwas segregated and put within
the confines of a community thatreally is like a slum.
(02:47):
And Sammy came to ChristSeminary and then went back to
Soweto and just began to preachthe word and disciple men and
his wife women, matter of fact,his wife's amazing you should
hear her testimony and just tosee that church begin to
flourish and then to talk aboutlocal outreach and then you
(03:07):
begin to see even where acommunity begins to change
because they repent.
So many efforts today to bringcommunity development and change
are trying to be achieved fromthe outside Change systems and
structures and all the rest ofit but it's really not until the
heart transforms and peoplerepent, that you begin to see
(03:29):
they turn from crime, they turnfrom whatever other you know the
addiction or pattern is, oreven their thinking about race
and issues like that.
So I love talking to Sammybecause if you were to visit his
church today you would hear himpreach, just following the same
example of men like JohnMacArthur and many other
(03:49):
expositors, verse by verse,going through the Word of God.
But then you look at what'shappening in Soweto around them,
and now they're plantinganother church in Soweto.
And now they're working with afellowship of township pastors
who also graduated from ChristSeminary to support one another.
And now they've opened up likea Bible Institute-level training
(04:13):
out of their own church Whoa,let's go.
How great is that that's?
Phenomenal, you're just seeingchurch members' lives being
transformed and, as I've alreadysaid, and I just like to say,
it's the truth that transforms.
You know, there has to be someintentionality and framework and
some you know trellis aspect tothat.
(04:33):
It's not that you don't have tohave a strategy and all the
rest of that, but at the coreit's got to be work that
advances the truth in the livesof people.
So praise God for what he'sdoing today in the townships
across South Africa.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
A lot of the concept around the business as missions
movement, which I think is beingrenamed and rethought, and it's
really just doing life as afollower of Christ through your
vocation, et cetera.
But a lot of that is like howdo you bring economy, how do you
bring the sustainability andbusiness and a whole holistic or
(05:08):
comprehensive to use one ofyour words framework to a
community, as opposed tohandouts which maybe just end up
resulting in the people gettingused to handouts and not really
ever getting a chance to get toknow the Lord and grow on their
own.
So there's a version of whatSammy's doing.
It sounds like that'sempowering and it's educating
(05:32):
and it's getting people out ofmaybe a history or a lineage of
their family's framework beinglimited and what they can do and
really unlocking them andunleashing them to go realize
something they couldn't do ontheir own.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Absolutely, and one of the things that you do in a
context like that is you tapinto your church members'
vocational skill set.
So for instance, a lot of thefolks in that context can't
advance academically becausethey can't read Well to start a
reading program in your localchurch that is staffed by some
(06:01):
of your church members who areschool teachers, or creating a
tutoring program, it's employingyour church members in a way
that meets a particular need andserves people in a really
genuine loving way but alsofacilitates that truth being
taught and applied in their ownlife.
(06:22):
And I love it when you see thatall working together.
But let me tell you anotherstory, cause we were talking
last week about new horizonopportunities into, uh,
restricted access or unreachedpeople groups.
So I just heard this testimonyuh again, christ seminary, south
Africa.
Now we all know that China,through its bridge and tunnels
(06:46):
program and everything thatthey're doing to try to pour
money into developing countries,particularly in places like
Africa.
If you look today, a lot ofAfrican countries have a large
Chinese immigrant population whohave been sent there to do
these infrastructure projects,and that's true in South Africa.
So there's a testimony of a guysent from atheistic China as
(07:12):
part of one of these projects.
I believe he's in theJohannesburg area and he started
hearing sound preaching on theradio and got directed to our
school there.
He went through the schoolprogram.
But he's actually pastoring aChinese church in South Africa
(07:32):
that he has planted amongimmigrants from China, that
China spent there and thatchurch is growing.
People are coming to faith,baptisms and things like that.
But he's preaching in Chinese,in Mandarin.
And now he's taking theresources that we're translating
for our schools in Chinesecontext and he's using those
(07:55):
from one part of the world andreading it into his local
ministry in South Africa and Ithought, yeah, that's just to
the glory of God.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well, just imagine that guy leaving right, Okay,
hey, honey, fam, I'm going, I'mgoing to go build some bridges
and do these things and advancethe cause of, you know, our
government, uh, and and theirand their purposes.
And then he got there and hejust got rerouted, Right, Uh,
that is awesome, and that's thekind of thing I'm starting to
hear about.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I can give you some other examples.
Many of us can go back to theperiod of COVID where we were
all living on Zoom and so a lotof our training for a period of
time in some countries had toutilize Zoom.
Well, man that kicked the dooropen.
So our school in thePhilippines.
There was one guy who'dimmigrated from Pakistan to the
Philippines and had beenintroduced to our training
ministry there, so he was ableto get involved there.
But when they start teachingthrough Zoom, he said, hey, I've
(08:51):
got friends who are pastorsback in Pakistan.
Could they join the trainingvia Zoom?
Wow, okay, let's do that.
So there were six men, sixpastors, who joined the training
.
They completed the program.
When the restrictions wereremoved for travel,
international travel after COVID, they extended an invitation to
(09:15):
our faculty to come intoPakistan and begin to train
pastors in Pakistan.
Well, we never expected that.
We didn't go looking for that.
That's that invitation I wasdescribing last week.
And so we did that.
And the first trip in boy, ourfaculty member was there for
several weeks and he went tofive cities, did conferences on
(09:39):
exposition, preaching and otherbiblical topics, preaching and
other biblical topics, and thatresulted in the birthing of a
new training ministry inPakistan.
And while he was there, thatfirst trip, they had over 500
pastors come out for thedifferent training events that
(09:59):
were set up, all by nationalPakistani pastors, and these are
men definitely underpersecution.
I don't have time to tell you,but I could tell you explicit
and specific testimonies ofBible burning, men being killed,
assaults on their churchbuildings and things like this.
And to be given the opportunityto serve these men, totally,
(10:23):
totally undeserved certainly,but a great joy to do what we
can, because they're countingthe cost every day.
What?
What cost are we facing, nodoubt.
So all we can do to stand withthem and encourage them.
So the lord opened up pakistan.
Same thing happened in cubarecently.
We had one student studying ina school in Latin America.
(10:45):
He completed the Master's ofDivinity-level training there,
returned home there's a networkof evangelical churches within
Cuba.
At that time he just took thevideo recordings of the lectures
.
That resulted then in aninvitation and we're doing our
first pastor's conference inCuba this fall with our faculty
(11:06):
from three different trainingcenters, spanish-speaking
training centers in latinamerica who are going in to to
respond to that need.
So these are examples of what'sbecoming a pattern and we're
just trying to be faithful tokeep up with it.
But in in all those cases it'snot even really Americans behind
it.
These are nationals going intocontexts that are within their
(11:31):
region.
So there are many, many moreexamples of that.
The other thing, kind of relatedto the restricted access, is in
many places we realize early on, if you're going to train
church leaders, they needtextbooks, they need theological
resources, they needcommentaries to prepare their
sermons, and so years ago wejust started translating a book
(11:58):
here or a book there.
Three years ago we realized,boy, we're doing a lot more of
this than we realized.
And if we could organizeourselves to work with Christian
publishers to secure contractsnot just in one language but
multiple languages.
So we opened up a globalpublishing division to respond
to the requests from the fieldto translate Christian books and
(12:21):
commentaries, and that's ledinto translation MacArthur Study
Bible into languages and allkinds of things, and not just
print versions but electronic ordigital libraries.
We also get contracts for audiobooks and media content, videos
(12:41):
and things like that.
So now we're positioned totranslate these resources.
What's happening?
Because we're translating intolanguages like Farsi and Arabic
and Urdu and Bahasa, and I couldgo on and on.
I think we're working in about40, 45 languages right now.
(13:02):
Well, those resources that weredesigned for a particular
cultural context now becomeavailable when there's an
outreach to an immigrantpopulation in another part of
the world.
And I saw a book recently, ourRussian speaking school, one of
the faculty members, wrote abook on the incarnation and
(13:25):
speak about the duty of Christ,and that book was translated
into Arabic, urdu and Farsi.
And I got a video clip actuallyof the book coming off the
press in Iran and there were nofaces, no names, it was just the
book coming off the press withthe workers there.
And that's the ability we havein today's generation using
(13:50):
technology and distributingcontent and resources.
And there's more I could seethere, but this whole area of
restricted access, it's notrestricted.
It might be in the terms ofsending an American missionary,
but there are other doors thatare wide open.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
We talked about that with Andrew Scott.
Right, we've been trying tocome in through a back door or a
top window when the front dooris wide open.
And another story we told onthe podcast was something that
Bless got to help fund trainingUkrainian pastors who were able
to get into other countries thatwe weren't able to get into.
And I have an image in my headwhich I'll never forget of 22
(14:29):
baptisms in Iran via one of theUkrainian pastors that went
through that training and, ofcourse, again, faces were
blurred out.
But it's happening, it'sworking, it's a beam it off, a
satellite kind of a version ofwe've got the education and some
resources et cetera.
Train and equip over here, thenthey go into there.
But you brought up a wholenother framework for this
(14:50):
happening, which is one peoplegroup traveling to a different
people group.
That's not our people group,but that we happen to be working
in.
And now they're getting accessand they're planning churches
and leading their people toChrist in their own language, in
their own culture, in adifferent culture.
Right, I mean, that's right.
You can't script that.
(15:13):
You don't know that that'sgoing to happen, right?
No, but it's biblical.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
When people think biblically and they think about
God's calling the church andindividuals to make disciples of
the nations.
That's not exclusively aWestern mandate, that's just a
biblical mandate to the church.
So I believe you and I in ourgeneration may witness the
(15:39):
greatest global missionsmovement in the history of the
church and we have moreopportunities by way of use of
technology and transportation,things like that, and I will add
to it.
I actually think we're going tosee more and more limited
opportunities for Westernmissionaries to go into those
contexts.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
But we have a role to play.
Absolutely.
It's a different role.
Can I ask you, just because ofyour time in the Word and your
time teaching the Word,something that I think we just
don't frame in context?
You said in our generation.
So I teach through the Biblewith a discipleship group every
year.
I get six, eight guys.
Every year.
We go Genesis to Maps when youstart Matthew and you go to look
(16:20):
at the genealogies and you see14 generations from Abraham to
King David and then 14generations from King David to
the Messiah.
When you talk about the frameof how many generations they've
really been in human history,can you give some context to
that?
Because I think we feel likesome things are ancient and
distant and so so long ago.
(16:42):
But 2000 years ago is not thatlong ago really.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I won't speak for you , but for me.
As I get older, I have agreater appreciation that things
weren't that long ago.
I remember names and people andfaces that others would see, as
you know, in ancient history,and I'm like, no, I knew those
people, and so some of us bridgegenerations to generations, but
, biblically speaking, and I'mlike, no, I knew those people,
and so some of us bridgegenerations to generations.
But, biblically speaking andI'm a young earth guy that's our
(17:09):
position we're looking at about6,000 years of human history
and it's all chronicalbiblically and it's the same
principle you're alluding to.
It's generation to generationto generation.
One of my favorite references tothis is the testimony of Joshua
in Joshua, chapter 22,.
Right, they led the conquest,you know.
(17:32):
They purged the nation, thepromised land, of all the
idolatrous, people, groups thatwere in the land.
That's what was really takingplace in the conquest, so they
could fulfill being in thecenter of the land was really
taking place in the conquest.
So they could fulfill being inthe center of the land.
Ezekiel as a testimony to thenations, to the one true God,
jehovah.
So he fulfills all that.
What does he do at the end ofhis life, before he dies, he
(17:52):
calls the whole nation togetherand he rehearses the Abrahamic
covenant, reminds the peoplewhat they're called to.
But there's this really sweet,sweet verse at the end of
chapter 22, and it says that thepeople remain faithful for as
long as the generation of Joshuaand those leaders lived,
(18:15):
meaning it only lasts onegeneration as far as
faithfulness.
Every generation has todetermine that they're going to
be committed in their generationto live for Christ, to stand
for the truth and make sure thatif there's a need to fight for
the truth, they fight that fight.
(18:37):
And I think by linking I was ahistory major personally.
So I think in these terms thatit's the passing of the baton
from generation to generationand that's why we can't make
more difficult Christ's strategy.
I mean 12 guys and then to talkabout what we're talking about
today, 2,000 years later, thatdoesn't make sense to human
(18:59):
wisdom.
It makes perfect sense to themind of God about faithfulness.
While numbers are exciting, Ithink they give testimony to how
God is at work.
The subtle mistake we make is wemake success.
We define success by numbers.
As Americans and Westerners,eager is always better.
The principle we see inscripture is be faithful to
(19:21):
first things God will cause, thegrowth God will further, the
he's going to build his church.
You and I are not going to dothat.
So I think what you want to dois give every generation a call
to be faithful to thosegenerations who come behind us,
to that same commitment and thentrust the Lord.
(19:45):
And when there's wonderfulnumbers fantastic and when
there's not, knowing this isGod's purpose in His season, my
standard of success isfaithfulness to the Lord.
That's what he's going to holdme accountable to.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Let's go back to maybe what's your favorite story
or two over the last 30 yearsthat you haven't had a chance to
tell anybody in a while.
You're like, oh man, I rememberthis one.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, a couple come to mind.
So, going to this othercategory we've been discussing,
there's restricted access.
Then there's this idea ofunreached people, groups and the
nationals we're seeing beingtrained and sent out.
So I was in the Philippineslast year and we have locations
both in the Northern islands andthe Southern islands.
(20:29):
So I was down in Mindanao and Iwas in the capital of Davao
city and I was sitting acrossfrom a pastor that works with us
and he was like I got to tellyou what's going on.
He said we're training here inthe city, but he says my passion
is to reach these tribal groupsthat are not accessible to us
in the city.
But he says my passion is toreach these tribal groups that
are not accessible to us in thecity.
So he says for the last twoyears I've been taking all the
(20:51):
content, I've been learning andI've been going out to these
tribal groups and I've beenpassing that on to pastors in
these rural contexts and he goesI didn't even ask you, but I'm
taking some of the curriculumand some of the resources and
I'm translating that into theirlocal dialect and I'm like
praise the Lord, you know you'redoing it yourself because you
(21:16):
understand there's a stewardshipof being trained and equipped
and you're stepping into placesI could never go and it would
take a decade for an American toget his training.
Raise support, learn thenational language, learn the
local dialect you know and thentry to have an effective
ministry.
(21:36):
Right, right and he's going.
I've got 50 pastors and churchleaders that I'm training.
Same thing happened in Nepal.
A student that I didn't evenknow was doing this.
He comes to me.
Here's a great story.
His name is Ben.
Ben had been incarcerated andcouldn't even meet the
(21:57):
enrollment standards at theMaster's University, oh goodness
.
But he had married a graduateof the school that I'd had as a
student years ago, and theywalked in my door one day and
they said boy, I can't even meetthe enrollment standards.
Could I just audit Bibleclasses?
I want to serve the Lord and Ineed to know the scriptures.
I said, well, sure, we can dothat for you, wasn't maybe?
(22:20):
Two years later I heard thatthey had made a decision to go
to Nepal and I thought, man,that's fantastic, but you know
you get busy.
I lost track communicating withthem.
Well, they came into town lastyear and said can we go to
breakfast?
We want to tell you what God'sbeen doing.
I said okay.
So we sat down for breakfastand they said look we, this
(22:41):
guy's so humble, you know,having been in prison.
He's like I don't have a lot tooffer, so why don't I go where
nobody else is willing to go?
So he took his wife up to themost remote region of Nepal, to
a valley where there's 12 tribes, and he found a local pastor
who'd been trained down inKathmandu in the city, but he's
(23:02):
from this region, and they wentup there and they just started
to come alongside and try toencourage the pastors there.
They realized that the peoplewere not very doctrinally sound.
So they took our curriculum,fundamentals of the Faith, which
we developed at Grace Church,fof, and we use it with new
converts in our church as partof our membership process, and
(23:26):
they translated it into Nepaleseup there and they were just
using it and they said right nowwe've been able to actually
establish churches in four ofthe 12 tribes, but we have
invitations from all 12 to comein and to train believers using
(23:46):
FOS.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That's supernatural up there, because we know the
system up there, the shamans andhow that works and the way that
people are oppressed.
What you're saying is notnormal in that part of the world
, mark.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well, I've said there my jaw's dropped I love these
guys, I'm so proud of them.
It's personal to me, these arefriends, these are students.
But I just didn't know what Godwas doing.
And they were kind enough totell me.
They said do you know what ourdream would be?
It would be to translate someof MacArthur's books and
eventually the MacArthur StudyBible and our systematic
(24:20):
theology into the local language.
And I said well, listen, whileall that's been going on, we've
started this whole globalpublishing office and we're
getting contracts for all thoseworks.
Right now, would you like thoseto do in your language?
And I said, not only that,we've been raising funds to give
grants to translate those works, to give grants to translate
(24:46):
those words.
And they just sat there and theyjust began to cry what else
could you do?
Because they were like wedidn't come to ask for anything,
we just wanted you to know whatGod's doing.
And this was in our hearts andwe weren't even sure we should
mention it to you.
We just were going to ask youto pray for us.
We had no idea.
Well, since then, you know,we've connected them, we've got
(25:09):
the contracts, those things arein the process of being
translated, and to know that youknow our little effort here can
undergird their work becausethey were willing to go to the
most difficult places and God isopening up doors of ministry.
And sometimes you just sit andyou weep with your friends as to
(25:30):
what God's doing and where youget to help each other.
It's humbling, it's exciting.
I can't wait to get out of bedevery morning because you just
hear these kinds of stories andyou just know I don't have to
worry about it.
God's got this.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You know, something I want the listeners not to miss
on this is if you're notdiscipling and leading and
teaching and raising up otherpeople who are discipling and
leading and teaching, you willnot have these stories to tell.
You'll hear other people'sstories, but you won't have a
part in them.
And a beautiful gift that God'sgiving you, Mark.
(26:08):
He's giving you back evidenceof fruit downstream, of your
faithfulness and yourstorytelling and your teaching.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well, you know what?
It's a little foretaste ofheaven for all of us, right With
all the unfolding of thosestories and testimonies, and the
purposes of Christ become kindof revealed to us, and all those
generations you alluded tobefore.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So that's God's grace , isn't it, to just give us
little stories and littleinsights to it and part of the
reason for the podcast, mark, isyou know, fruit doesn't happen
right when you get in the field.
Necessarily You're notnecessarily going to walk right
into your first convert,believer, disciple and church
plant and all that.
A lot of that takes, sometimesyears, and I want the other
(26:54):
workers that hear this to knowfruit is happening.
It may not be right off yourvine at the moment, but stay
faithful and stay true andcontinue the work that God's
called you to and in His perfecttiming it will.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, please, I want to do the same Encourage
faithfulness.
Look, don't be tempted to takeshortcuts.
Those shortcuts are going tolead to real long-term.
It's going to lead tocompromise in the church.
It's going to lead to confusion.
It's going to lead to problemsthat you don't want to be the
result of your ministry.
(27:28):
I tell guys we can't get aheadof God where he's going to grow
his church.
There are some places where thechurch, the missions work, has
been going on for generationsand we work with tons of pastors
who want to be trained.
There's other places we're justgoing to be faithful to church
planting for 20 years beforethere's a handful of pastors to
(27:51):
train.
So we just have to do the workGod's called, you know, in each
cultural context, and not loseheart, but recognize that our
pragmatism, in our Americanculture, always is looking for
the most efficient and quickestway to achieve the outcome.
And what that will lead you todo is to adopt shortcuts that
(28:13):
masquerade as good strategy.
But I'm telling you some of thethings we see in the rapid
church planting movement, or DMMmovement, things like this.
I'm concerned because they'recalling things churches for the
sake of claiming hey, we planted10,000 churches last year and
(28:34):
I'm like what's your definitionof a church?
And let alone if you've gotpeople who claim to be
Christians now they'revulnerable to false teaching and
they have no discernment andyou're just taking a hands-off
approach saying, hey, check, ourjob is done.
That's a shortcut to thebiblical methodology and I feel
(28:55):
we, as teachers before the Lordare accountable, and I include
missionaries, pastors, churchleaders.
Very biblical and I'll tell youwhat.
If we tee people up to bedeceived by false teaching and
error and everything else, wemay tell stories in our
newsletters.
Today, it's going to be adifferent matter when we stand
(29:17):
before the Lord and have to giveaccount.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
To speak to the listener that maybe isn't at a
church that's got a Bible openon the pulpit that's going verse
by verse and word by word, andexpository, teaching, observe,
interpret, apply.
What do they need to look forin a church?
What do they need to getplugged into or what do they
need to question, maybe at theirchurch, that maybe they're
there as somebody that can helpredirect?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Sure, yeah, we hear from a lot of people both here
in the US and around the world.
I just can't find a good church.
Well, that's not an excuse tonot plug in and make a
contribution to your own localchurch.
Find the church that is assound as possible and had the
long view in mind.
Now, today, you can have accessto sound teaching through media
(30:04):
and internet and things likethat, so you can feed your own
soul, your, your spouse's soul,your kids, in a way that wasn't
possible before.
But then don't abandon thelocal church.
Right, be faithful.
Now, if they're teaching errorand all kinds of things, instead
of coming in with a big, giantbat and trying to take everybody
(30:28):
out and confront them,establish yourself as somebody
who loves people, is faithful,you're trustworthy, and then
just begin to do your very bestto pray for the pastoral
leadership.
What I found in many timesthese men love Christ who are
pastoring these churches.
They've never had the privilegeof being effectively trained
(30:51):
and they bought into whatevertheir denomination or their
movement is promoting.
But when they're presented withsound teaching many of them
I've been in the room withpastors like this who just begin
to weep Because they realizeI've not been teaching the truth
to my flock.
I didn't know any better.
(31:12):
So don't make them the enemyout of the gate.
Don't be the critic and thefeud, be the one who's attacking
them.
Come alongside them, invitethem to a conference or share a
resource with them, and do it ina humble manner.
Now they may come out on theother end and go no, I'm defiant
, I'm committed to this doctrine.
(31:33):
Well, okay, that's probably achurch you can't stay in for a
long term because you don't havea pastor who's teachable.
But if you've got a teachableguy, be patient, have a long
view of mind, come alongsidethem, give them resources, be an
aid to them, and be cautiousthat if you start talking to
(31:55):
other people and critiquingtheir sermons and you start
discipling people and you keeppointing your finger at
everything that's wrong withyour church, it's going to make
it very difficult for the churchleaders to see you as someone
who's committed to their futurebenefit and growth.
Now, sometimes, dustin, I'm justgoing to say sometimes, after
(32:17):
you've done that and we do thatall over the world I told you
before last week that our guysgo in and serve under national
pastors.
A lot of them haven't beentrained yet.
So sometimes, though, aftermore and more people are trained
, it does lead to a point ofseparation where you humbly
(32:38):
agree.
You know what.
There's not sound preaching inthis church.
It may be time to plant abiblical church, but we don't
encourage guys to do that rightaway.
We encourage them after everyeffort's been made to love and
support their local pastors.
And I want to add one thoughtFor those who are working around
the world in their own localcontext I'm talking about
(32:59):
American missionaries and youfeel like there's not a good
biblical church that you cansend people to look.
You're called to be a member ofa local church, and I've been
in places with missionaries whosaid we're not plugged into any
local church, we just meet as agroup of families or
missionaries.
And I said we're not pluggedinto any local church, we just
meet as a group of families ormissionaries.
And I said you know that?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
church needs you.
Yeah, how do people get engaged?
We believe in what you're doing.
I'll just you know what littlebit my endorsement and Clint's
and the Unreached podcast hashere, but we love what y'all are
doing.
We're so supportive.
What can people do, whetherthey're local in the West or
whether they're around the world?
How can they get to know you?
(33:39):
How can they get to aconference?
How can they access yourcontent?
Where do they go next to go?
Man, there's some good stuffhere I really need to get into.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Well, let me say, first of all, there's a lot of
good ministries out there.
I actually think there's kindof an exciting reform movement
within evangelical missions toreturn back to biblical
convictions.
So we're not the only one Iwant to say, but as far as our
ministry, I appreciate thequestion.
A few things.
As you alluded to again lastweek, a lot of pastors are
(34:12):
saying boy, how do I get mymissions program in line with my
own convictions or theconvictions of the elders?
A lot of missions programsthey're delegated downstream
people with good intentions butyou've obligated a lot of money
and a lot of resources of yourlocal church that if you press
into you might find those peopledon't even teach what you teach
(34:34):
.
They're not working through alocal church.
So one of the things that wejust like to offer people is a
resource that we have availableon our website and it's just a
little pamphlet entitled how toBuild Effective Missions
Programs for the Local Church,and what it really is is just a
survey we did of churches whowent through the process of what
(34:55):
questions do you ask toevaluate your church and then
what's a process that educatesyour church missions leadership
so then they can make discerningquestions.
That's available on our website, tmaiorg, and you can go there
Now.
Other ways to get engaged Ifyou would like to know more
(35:16):
about a work in a particularcountry, we list all of our
training centers on our websiteand we have a couple of ways
people get invaped.
We invite everybody to pray andthat's not just a throwaway.
For us, that's number one.
Based on Colossians 4, paulsays he urges us to pray
unceasingly that God would openup a door for the gospel.
(35:36):
Prayer is number one and wewill share with anybody prayer
requests from around the worldso they can join us in that
endeavor.
We just finished an annualcampaign.
It's not a fundraising campaign, but it was called Together we
Pray and it was a global prayercampaign to engage people to
(35:56):
pray with us.
So all those resources areavailable online in prayer
request.
Some are saying, hey, I'mlooking to invest my resources
in a place that I trust and Iwill apologize.
We need help.
The ministry is growing and webelieve we're a trusted ministry
you can rely on.
So if you want to givefinancially, you can certainly
(36:20):
do that.
You can give to a number offunds where we provide grants to
provide scholarships to ourtraining centers.
You can also work with yourlocal church and bring to your
local church what we call achurch partnership program,
where your church what we call achurch partnership program,
where your church can adopt atraining center and the students
(36:41):
in that training center gettestimonies on a regular basis,
pray for them.
You can send a short-termmissions trip.
You can send your pastor tospeak at a conference.
There's a lot of things thatyou can do in partnership
through your local church.
Some events that you can lookforward to we actually have a
one-day pre-conference to ourShepherds Conference in March
(37:01):
every year, called the TMAIInternational Symposium.
We bring all of ourmissionaries and school leaders
back for that conference and wehad about 1,200 people gathered
last year and you spend all daywith our international leaders,
hearing testimonies, talkingabout trends and missions,
what's happening in these areasof Bible translation, church
(37:23):
planting and so forth, and findways to partner and engage.
You can come to the ShepherdsConference because there's a lot
of things going on related tomissions at that time.
But we also have some regionalevents that we host that are
like a one-day missionsconference and if churches are
interested in inviting us tocome and do that, we're happy to
(37:43):
serve them in that regard.
So I think you get the idea.
There's a lot of ways ofconnecting.
But one last thing I willmention that we're excited about
to strengthen local churches'biblical convictions and
involvement in missions.
We've just completed a two-yearproject to write a missions
textbook.
It's entitled Biblical MissionsPrinciples, priorities and
(38:06):
Practices.
There's a course that goesalong with it and a workbook
book and you can use it in asmall group format in your local
church or, if your church has aBible Institute program, as a
class, or you can use it a localBible college or Christian
university can use it for anundergrad class, or it can be
(38:26):
used for a graduate levelmissions course at a seminary.
The workbook has designed allthe assignments and questions by
context small group BibleInstitute all the way up and so
you can use it also as aresource for people going to the
mission field in your localchurch who want to get a
(38:48):
stronger biblical perspective onmissions.
So that's going to come outnext February, february 2025.
Missions so that's going to comeout next February, february
2025.
And you'll get the book, theworkbook, and then we're going
to launch what we call theCenter for Biblical Missions and
(39:09):
that's going to be a web-basedplatform to host content on
issues that the global churchbases in their context
theological issues, ministryissues, missiological issues and
we'll continue to populate thatwith more content, as that's
created by our guys around theworld, and so we're just trying
to create content that can beused by local churches to, let's
just say, increase theirmission's literacy and equip
(39:32):
their people to make gooddecisions by way of stewarding
their prayers, their financesand their people for the kingdom
.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Outstanding, so there's a lot of on-ramps.
There's also, I think, a lessonhere we don't have to reinvent
the wheel, and I want to saythis too this has bothered me
for a long time.
I work more in the financialindustry, and asking someone to
support you or partner with youfinancially should not be
something that you are reservedabout doing.
(40:00):
And I'm not talking about you,Mark, I'm talking about
everybody.
You're blessing them with anopportunity to be part of
something bigger than themselves.
That is to be celebrated.
It should be something thatyou're excited about.
One of my favorite kind offundraising quotes that God gave
me years ago was you know, casta vision big enough that people
can see themselves in it andshow them how they can be a part
(40:21):
of it.
And then stay connected to themwhen you do Tell them the
stories, get back to them withwhat's really happening, Give
them something to talk aboutwhen they're at their next
gathering with a group of peopleand say man, I got to be a part
of supporting this ministry andthis is what happened.
There's a guy that came fromChina to build bridges and now
he's become a Christian and he'sleading a church.
And I get to give financiallyto this and I get to hear about
(40:42):
it.
And what are y'all doing withyour money?
By the way, it's not yoursanyway, it's God's money.
I end up on a little bit of atangent there, but there's like
2,300 verses in the Bible aboutmoney.
It's an important topic.
It's not to be missed.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
I used to feel a little sheepish about asking
people to give and someonehelped me, just like you're just
saying wait a second.
If that's God's sovereign callon those people's life, it's
actually their ministry.
You're hindering their abilityto fulfill their ministry and
this is God's work.
It's not mine, it's not TMAI,it's about the work of the
(41:16):
kingdom.
And, boy, I love our donors andpartners, prayer or financial,
matter of fact, we're committedto praying for them.
We just finished our staffmeeting an hour ago and we pray
every week through a long listof personal prayer requests for
our donors, because we don'twant to be one sided.
We want to serve them, givethem good data, good information
(41:37):
.
We give all the financialreporting, so there's
accountability and integrity,but we want to pray for you and
these are requests.
They're telling me, man, mymarriage is struggling, I have
an unbelieving kid, I lost myjob, I've got health issues, and
we just want to join with themin caring to meet their needs.
They're meeting our needs andwe share those prayer requests,
(41:59):
with their permission, also withthose around the world.
So our guys who are benefitingfrom their gifts, are praying
back for the donors at the sametime.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
So we're all in this together.
Let me just thank you, mark.
Thank you for your life, thankyou for your ministry, thank you
for your leadership, thank youfor sharing the framework and
the stories, and, to guys likeSammy and Ben and others that I
know, there's many stories wedidn't get to today.
There's also many stories thatare yet to be written and soon
to be told.
(42:28):
Let me pray for everybody as wego out, mark, thank you again.
Father, just thinking aboutthose stories yet to be told,
thinking about the chapters yetto be told, thinking about the
chapters yet to be written,thinking about what you've
equipped us with time, talentand treasure.
We all have a unique combinationof time, talent and treasure.
We're all called to align ourlives to your will.
(42:48):
We all have a role to play.
So keep revealing to us throughprayer, through your word,
through small groups andd-groups and life groups, and
such.
Keep revealing to us throughprayer, through your word,
through small groups andd-groups and life groups and
such.
Keep revealing to us that plan.
Keep revealing to us our rolein it and how we can be both
useful today and how we can beteaching and reproducing others
so that they can continue to dothe good work, and we thank you
(43:10):
for Mark, we thank you for JohnMacArthur, we thank you for the
different organizations and allof the branches coming off the
vine.
Lord, it's amazing to see howyou put this all together, and
the fact that you let us be apart of it is so humbling and
it's the greatest joy of ourlives.
It's in your name we pray, amen.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Thank you for listening to Unreached.
Our sincere desire is that whatyou've heard today will cause
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