April 1, 2025 • 46 mins
Nick Ripken shares his 30+ year missionary journey into the heart of persecution and suffering, confronting the profound question: Is Jesus worth it? His experiences in Somalia during civil war and the tragic loss of his son transformed his understanding of faith and led him to document the stories of persecuted believers worldwide.
• Defining a true missionary as someone sent to engage those with little or no access to the gospel
• Witnessing unimaginable suffering in Somalia while feeding 50,000 people daily and burying 20 children
• Experiencing personal tragedy with the death of his 16-year-old son on Easter Sunday
• Discovering how persecuted believers maintain vibrant faith despite severe opposition
• Learning that Western Christians often approach Scripture as past tense while persecuted believers live it in present tense
• Understanding that leadership in persecuted churches comes through evangelism, not education
• Realizing that the best way to support the persecuted church isn't through pity or rescue
• Identifying with persecuted believers by fully committing to Jesus and sharing Him with others
The greatest way to identify with believers in persecution is to give your life to Jesus and then share Him with others. If you keep Jesus to yourself, you're identifying with their persecutors—because the worst persecution is having no access to Jesus at all.
www.nikripken.com
Also, to watch "The Insanity of God" documentary (and you definitely should!) check out the link below.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b0ASd2A2YMA&pp=ygUTdGhlIGluc2FuaXR5IG9mIGdvZA%3D%3D
Follow @unreachedpodcast on Instagram for more!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dustin (00:05):
In Revelation 7, john shares his vision of heaven,
with members from every tribe,tongue, people and language
standing in the throne roombefore the Lamb.
Yet today there are still over7,000 unreached people groups
around the world.
For the last six years, myfamily and friends have been on
a journey to find, vet and fundthe task remaining.
(00:28):
Come journey with us to theends of the earth as we share
the supernatural stories of Godat work for the men and women he
has called to reach theunreached.
Clint (00:42):
Hey friends, thanks so much for tuning in to a new
episode of the Unreached podcast.
Today we have a special guest.
Nick Ripken is a over 30 yearmissionary veteran who has
literally traversed the entireglobe, lived in different
countries around the world andinterviewed the persecuted
church.
He's actually one of theworld's experts on persecution
(01:05):
and the church and what God'sdone in that.
He is here today to help usanswer the question is Jesus
worth it?
Nick, thanks so much for beingon the podcast.
Nik (01:16):
Hey, it's our joy, especially to answer the
question that you posed.
Clint (01:22):
Well, all right.
So here's where I want to start.
Today there's a movie, there isa book.
You're an author, a filmmaker,a really good storyteller.
There's so many differentresources where I want our folks
to be able to be pointed toearly on in the podcast here.
So I'm going to point everybodyto nickripkincom.
I want to point everybody tothe Insanity of God, which is a
book that you have written, butalso a documentary that has come
(01:46):
out.
My wife and I watched it lastnight.
We were just absolutely movedand cannot wait for everybody to
hear some of these stories ofGod at work.
But there's a moment early inyour ministry where you have
moved out of the hills andhollers of Kentucky and you've
moved across the globe and youand your wife are going through
the book of Acts together andyou wrestle with the question
(02:08):
what is a missionary?
And so I want to start rightthere, nick what is a missionary
?
Nik (02:14):
Well, no one's ever defined it for us.
My wife and I have a bachelor'sfrom the same Baptist college.
She has a master's there, Ihave a master's in doctorate
from seminary, was on themission field for 10 years and
they were asking to move us in aplace that was less strategic,
not more strategic, and had moreto do with the non-mational
(02:38):
identity than true churchplanting.
And so we're in a countrythat's had workers like
ourselves for close on 300 yearsoff and on.
I hope your listeners know it'snot a biblical word.
You don't ever find that wordanywhere in the Bible and it's a
concept of being sent out.
I'm not sure of the etymologyof the word, I'm really not sure
(03:02):
of its origin, but we sat downand I wrote the word missionary
on a piece of paper.
And we just more thandevotionally, because we read
chapters a day together andtossed them back and forth, and
at the end of that we wrote onthat piece of paper someone that
sent out, according to Matthew28, is to engage those who have
(03:24):
little or no chance to hear haveaccess to the gospel.
And two months later we hadmoved from South Africa into
Kenya.
We were told it would takethree to five years to get in
Somalia, because it was thecivil war and violence and
starvation was just heating up,and violence and starvation was
just heating up and so, twomonths after learning our three
(03:46):
third language, I tried to getinto Somalia.
Two months later, I'm inSomalia for the first time in
six months.
We're feeding 50,000 people aday, burying 20 kids a day and
starting to mobile medicalclinics, dig water wells, resell
to refugees, just whatever wecould do, and there's only like
(04:09):
four groups of us, small groups,tiny groups that found
different ways of getting in andout of the country, because we
were in there about a year and ahalf before the military folks
came in and everything changedand then, when Black Hawk went
down, everything changed againand there were like four of us
left in there for another yearuntil we all got chased out.
But still, if your listeners arenot aware, I follow often,
(04:31):
clint, the number of people whoare supposed to be unreached and
unengaged, and from the peopleI respect the most, that figure
goes from 2.some billion peopleto 4.3 billion people who have
no scripture, not one verse, nosongs, no missionaries, no
(04:52):
bodies to attend.
And when you have that big avariance in billions of people.
What that says about usChristians is we don't know says
about us Christians is we don'tknow.
We have not today gone to theends of the earth to know where
they are, how many of them thereare, what languages they speak,
(05:14):
what food they eat.
We do not know.
Seventy-three percentapproximately of all
missionaries today are inChristian countries, so what is
our response?
Clint (05:26):
What are we supposed to do?
Nik (05:28):
Well, I've had people basically put my career in
jeopardy when I was paid forwhat we were doing or we had a
stipend for doing it, because Iwas told by someone in very
high-level importance.
They asked me about the Somaliwork and I said hey, I know
(05:48):
you're here, I can get you on aC-130 tomorrow, go with you to
Mogadishu, show you what it'slike.
He said no, no, no, I just needto do this.
On a conversation on the phonethey said when I come in tonight
with my 30, some volunteers, wewould have baptized probably an
average of 150 people.
What have you done?
How many people have come toChrist last year in Somalia?
(06:11):
How much money have you spentand is it cost effective to be
there?
And I knew then this was not abrother to brother conversation.
I said listen, I explained anumber of things.
I said we spent a little bitover two million dollars.
We had three believers martyredand one Somali come to faith.
And he said how can you justifywasting God's money and
(06:35):
throwing it away and things likethis?
And I said, sir, I don't haveto justify it, but I have to be
obedient.
Jesus said go to all the world.
And he didn't say go where it'sresponsive only, to all the
world.
And he didn't say go where it'sresponsive only.
And I said, matter of fact, wedon't know whether Somali people
are responsive or not, becausethey've never been given a
chance to respond.
Clint, Muslims who have accessto Jesus are responding in
(06:57):
higher percentages 100 timesover than Americans who have
access to Jesus.
Wow, Muslims are seeking God inways that would baffle
Americans and the more that theyseek God and they can't find
him, the angrier they get.
Because can you imagine yourwhole life's endeavor, you pray
(07:22):
and you fast and you give andyou pilgrimage, and still you
know that the inner man has notbeen satisfied, has not been
reached, and they live in fearof that one percent, that they
believe that sin is not passedon and if they face Allah and
they have one bad deed over onegood deed, they go to the hell.
(07:43):
And they have one good deedover one good deed, they go to
the hell.
And they have one good deedover the bad deed, they go to
the paradise and they live inabject fear of the 1%.
Clint (07:51):
What a terrible way to be able to live in absolute fear
of what's going to happen to youin the afterlife.
So when the gospel of Jesus,the grace of Jesus, goes into
this broken, busted up soil, Ican't imagine the hope that it
brings to people.
But Somalia specifically.
This was an insanely difficultassignment for you guys.
(08:15):
Tell me about what you saw inSomalia and how it changed your
path.
Nik (08:19):
Well, it changed my whole way of looking at God.
I'm a risk taker.
Both my wife and I, as I saidin the film that you watched,
are PKs.
She's a pastor's kid, I'm apagan's kid, but I know what
it's like to be lost and be in aChristian environment.
Nobody would let my family in,and so we were praying about not
(08:42):
wasting our lives And'd havefound who this missionary was.
And what was coming up on ourscreen was Sudan, and it was
confusing about Christian northor south or Muslim north.
But Somalia was rated at thenumber one human tragedy place
in the world, and for Somalis,christian was military, was
(09:06):
government.
Anybody from the West wasChristian.
Anybody from Islamic world was,of course, a Muslim, and they
wrote that in over us.
And so people who came inSomalia committing adultery with
their different you knowsecular organizations with the
military, drinking alcohol,pushing people around they are
(09:29):
as much a Christian as our teamwas.
And what would happen?
After about six months?
A random it was weekly, two orthree times a week or more
Somali would walk up to me in amarket and just in a normal, out
loud voice are you a missionary?
Well, that's like asking me ifI want to be shot.
(09:52):
What I've learned and foreverchanged me and those who
mentored me, is that the contentand the context of the Bible
are equally authoritative.
And yet if you just preach thecontent, you'll turn Jesus into
a white guy from the South andpeople always read that into
(10:15):
that and they'll get bent out ofshape by demons and people
being overtly healed.
What other choice did God have?
I walked into the only hospitalno roof, no windows or anything
that was still running in allof Somalia.
A Russian trained lady was theonly doctor in the whole country
.
All the men had fled.
I'd met some of them in Nairobiand I walked in and sitting on
(10:37):
Bear Springs was this starved,emaciated, swollen baby,
staring-eyed little girl.
She was three years old, sheweighed 11 pounds.
I walked over to her and Ishouldn't have not supposed to
and I took my index finger andrubbed it down her cheek.
All of a sudden she just lockedin on me and she looked at me
(11:01):
and she just smiled a morebeatific smile, and I recoiled
from her in heart because Ithought, god, where in the world
did a smile come from in thatlittle girl?
And so I just said to God.
I said this one goes home.
There was no borders and I hadso many relationships in the
embassy and different groups ofpeople I could have got her to
(11:24):
Nairobi and I could have adoptedher.
And so the doctor came and gotme.
There had been a littleaccident.
We had to set a little boy'sarm and leg.
I went out the car and got ropeand cardboard boxes and helped
set his arm and I came back andthat little girl was gone and I
said where is she?
And the doctor said well, Ithink it's time for her bath.
(11:46):
And she came back in 10 minuteslater and she said Dr Nick, she
died while we were working onthat little boy.
And I went to village aftervillage after village in the
South, probably more Southeast,where no one had been for three
to five years, and most of thosevillages there was not a person
left alive.
And I would follow skeletonsfrom a main dirt road and there
(12:11):
would be a skeleton for everykilometer and then there'd be a
skeleton for every halfkilometer and every hundred
meters and then every 15 feet.
And you get back in thevillages and they're so dry in
the air so you know no moisturein the air.
I walk in a in a hut andthere's a granny stirring grass
in the middle of the hut andthere's a 14 somewhat year old,
(12:35):
beautiful somali girl on the bedand she died pulling a comb
through her hair.
Granny had died stirring thegrass trying to prepare to eat
and it looked like they died for15 minutes before.
I got there and we would drivethrough these small towns that
were like ghost towns, and thefirst one I went through that
the US Relief Organizationmilitary rented two pickup
(12:58):
trucks, six guards, two drivers.
They gave us all the dieselfuel and MREs for a month out.
We stopped in a small town.
There was nobody there.
All of a sudden, men and womencame through the windows and out
these broken doors and they'retrying to shove their children
in my lap saying in Somalia, allmy kids are dead.
This one gets to live.
(13:18):
And I'm starting to open thedoor and the driver hit me in
the chest and the guard behindme pulled me back and they went,
tearing out of this town.
They got about 10, 15kilometers out.
They stopped and they circledme and they said Ripken, if we
had stopped there they wouldhave taken our weapons, they
would taken our trucks, they'dtaken our food and we would be
(13:41):
dead, like right now, and if youdo this again, we will shoot
you ourselves.
So I had to learn on the spot,every time we approached the
urban area, that there might besomeone alive.
We'd park outside, walk in atmidnight, be there at daybreak,
listen for the voices ofchildren that were gathered
somewhere, try and be kept alive, and then that's how we would
(14:03):
begin a conversation on how tomeet some needs if we could meet
some needs and yet preserve ourown lives at the same time.
And so Jesus said Clint, I'msending you out as sheep among
wolves.
I have a bachelor's, master'sand a doctorate from the
denominational schools.
I had one class out of all ofthat that engaged the nations.
(14:26):
All those other tens ofthousands of hours taught me how
to be sheep among sheep.
And as we're gathered inchurches and the more we throw
stones at lost people and thinkgovernment solves our problem,
we're just building thickerwalls, taller walls problem.
We're just building thickerwalls, taller walls, and we want
to stay with the sheep.
Clint (14:52):
Nick, it sounds like that you were trained to be a New
Testament Christian in a NewTestament church, but God threw
you into what sounded like theOld Testament in Somalia.
You just walked into the OldTestament.
Nik (15:00):
It was a hiatus because I grew up in the Old Testament.
Then I got all those years incollege and seminary and they
taught me how I couldn't eventalk to my own family because
they gave me tools forChristians.
You're very insightful, becausewhat our main task is is for
(15:24):
outsiders.
We don't have to do this forinsiders or those who come to
Christ out of you, know Islam orcommunism or Buddhism or
Hinduism.
They already know the pricethat they're going to pay.
We really have to help themunderstand what it means to be
sheep among wolves.
But how to be smart sheep, youdon't have to be dumb sheep.
(15:44):
Every believer in Somalia 150when we got there four left
alive when we were kicked, diedand only one died of natural
causes.
They took their corpses andthrew them in pit toilets and
(16:06):
threw them in garbage heaps andlet them burn, threw them in the
Indian Ocean where the sharksfed, and so preparing people to
go from the New Testament to theOld Testament.
People just sort of stare atyou and think, well, that's
exciting, until they get thereand the Old Testament eats them
up.
I watched non-believing Somalisgiven the 13-pound Somali green
(16:29):
Bible and 30 minutes after theywere giving it.
They had a bullet put in theirhead and they were killed and
they went to eternity withoutJesus because somebody who
didn't learn the language, learnthe culture and tell all what
these people really need is theword of God.
This guy could not read a rightword, not a word.
And they were told this is abook from the God and it's a
(16:51):
book of power.
Why wouldn't you want somethinglike that?
And when the fundamentalistssaw him walking in the market
with that, they didn't ask himhis name or anything, they just
shot him dead with that.
They didn't ask him his name oranything, they just shot him
dead.
Believers in persecution havelived under this well, like in
China since 48, in the oldSoviet Union since 1917.
They've learned this over andover and over again and they
(17:13):
know how to be people of faithin virtually an Old Testament
environment.
A believer in Turkey.
When I said something an OldTestament environment, a
believer in Turkey.
When I said something.
It was horrible what I said tohim.
He talked about praying thatthe government would change so
that they would be free to haveopen churches, and I said the
stupid Western person that I am,why don't you just do what
(17:34):
God's told you to do.
And he looked at me.
He said oh, you're that kind ofWestern Christian.
He said what did you read inuniversity?
I said I got a double major inhistory, religion.
He said I hope you learn fromyour religion, majors.
Obvious, you learn nothing fromyour history, major.
And then he changed my life.
He said he said, ripken,there's two types of law codes
(17:57):
in the world.
All of you Westerners were bornunder common law, and common law
says you're born with the rightto everything.
Republicans, democrats, fightover really how big or how small
government should be, butyou're born with the right to
everything.
Under Roman law, every believerin the world today that is
(18:19):
persecuted for their faith thatI know of live under Roman law.
And Roman law says you're bornwith the right to nothing and
it's the job of government totell you who you can marry,
where you can work, what schoolyou go to, what area of the
country you live in.
And I can give you thousands ofexamples of this.
(18:40):
And yet Jesus was able tointegrate into that Roman law
world where you're born with theright to nothing, and honor God
in it.
We come with our common law andwe read that into every culture
on earth and just say this isyour God-given right.
And they'll say when did he getit?
(19:00):
Show us the stories in theBible where, as followers of
Jesus, we have the right to bepartners with Caesar.
And when Pilate says shall Inot give you back your God?
And our religious leaders saidwe have no God but Caesar.
I can hear that echoing allover the place through Christian
(19:22):
voices today.
Believers in persecution helpme, get my kingdom stuff in
order, the worst thing that wehave done and where you can help
us probably the most.
Satan doesn't care.
You can say that the Bible isan errant, infallible,
authoritative word of God andit's exact words and deeds that
(19:48):
God used to do.
Edible is content as long asyou put the Bible and the acts
of God in past tense.
And the kingdom of God issomething we study about and
read about and talk about thosepeople while we're with our
people.
But if what Ruth and I can sayafter 37 years overseas is that
(20:12):
everything that God and alsoevil has ever done in human
history, that war is still goingon and we will choose sides,
but Somalia, I would take allthis stuff and sort of put it in
a closet in my mind, my soul,and then, when I'd get out after
four weeks, six weeks, I'dspend all the appropriate time,
(20:35):
ruth and I, telling our boyswhat's going on, age,
appropriate, and then she and Iwould lay in the bed till about
three o'clock in the morningtelling her things.
I wouldn't tell anybody elseand I met with five guys the day
after I'm home foraccountability and support and
what I'm doing is I'm gettingall this evil stuff that's
(20:57):
lodged in the different closetsor rooms of my mind and not
allowing it to become a cancerthat affects my family, my life,
the rest of my life In twomonths' time.
We got kicked out of Somalia.
Our 16-year-old son died onEaster Sunday morning, eight
days after his birthday, andthen two months to that day that
he died, ruth's mother died.
(21:20):
And the outpouring of love fromour Muslim neighbors, our Hindu
neighbors there's 1,200 missionorganizations in Nairobi and we
didn't fix another meal fromMarch until we came home in June
to put our oldest in thecollege.
But our Kenyan pastor came tous and he said Ripken, he always
(21:43):
talked to me like the commanderon the field.
He said Ripken, when yourneighbors and all these white
people stop coming to your houseand your church is going to
come in the evening.
And I said Pastor Mwanji, Ican't take it.
I can't take white people andneighbors all day and then
worship with my church fourhours at night.
And he was so hurt.
(22:05):
He looked at me and he said doyou know us so little?
I said I don't even know whatyou're talking about.
So the answer is yes.
So you're going to have to tellme what you're talking about.
So for the next 10 days andnight, around dusk when we
finished evening meal, theywatched and we're getting our
living sons ready for bed anddoing our family devotions.
(22:28):
They quietly came into thehouse, stood in the living room,
seven different tribes, praiseteam of about 10 people.
If you've never heard Africanharmony, I don't think you've
heard music and they sang us tosleep every night.
I don't think you've heardmusic and they sang us to sleep
every night.
And we're holding our kids andcrying, and I'm holding Ruth and
(22:48):
we're praying and crying andwe're hearing this African
melody go into every nook andcranny of our house and the last
thing that we ever knew forthose 10 nights they sang us
into the arms of Jesus.
That's what we call church.
Clint (23:08):
And there's not a body of Christ anywhere in the world
that can't do that kind of stuff.
Man, nick, that's incredible.
Thank you so much for sharingthat story so far.
This is just unbelievable tohear the work of God and how
he's used this incredibletragedy.
I can't.
First and foremost, it just isso impactful to me that once you
see what you saw in Somalia,inaction is not an option.
Like you, you are called intoaction by God to do this work at
(23:33):
that point because you've seenthe cost that it takes.
And then so for you guys to seethe cost there and then to pay
the cost yourself as your sonpasses away and to see the
church come around you.
I understand why the questionin your soul at that point had
to be is Jesus worth it?
(23:54):
You and your communitysurrounds you, that's one thing.
But then you went out to therest of the persecuted church to
go and find their answers tothat same questions.
I want to hear how God calledyou or moved you in that moment
of you guys could have just beenlike I'm out, I'm done, I've
(24:15):
seen too much, I've paid toomuch, but instead you wanted to
go deeper.
Why, why?
Nik (24:22):
You know, I think, to give justice to your question, we had
been everywhere we could in theWestern world to find help and
couldn't find any.
We had people that signed up topray and to give, and seminary
professors, college professors,church leaders.
They, just as we told the story, they just said, dude, what do
(24:47):
you need?
Do you need money?
What do you need Not say I needyour people, I need you to come
and touch it and taste it andfeel it.
I think I came to the point.
If Jesus isn't the answer andif he's not worth it, then we're
back to the Old Testament Jobissue.
(25:07):
Do you just live and die, likea lot of people do?
And you live and die withouthope, because you never had hope
.
And people have asked me this ahundred times why in the heck
would you do this?
I said what would you want meto do if those were your kids?
I don't know that this isanywhere.
(25:28):
No, it's not anywhere.
Our son had just died, my wife'sover a few feet away, communing
with Jesus in a way that onlyshe can, and I'm standing over
our son and, of course, weeping,but my prayer of God was God,
why?
Why has this journey only costme one child.
(25:52):
I know of no family in Somaliathat lost each child.
I know most families in Somalia.
Only the husband or the wife isdead and they left them alive
as a punishment.
I know of no women over 13 inSomalia that haven't been raped
eight to 18 times.
(26:12):
Why is it that I only have topay a lesser price?
And it doesn't mean that Igrieved any less than anybody
else, but I could breathe.
I could pray and breathe in andout in context of what that
event meant on a global stage.
(26:33):
You see, what I'm hinting at.
For us to fail to go is to failto understand the very nature
of God and put our fingers onhis pulse.
It is God's investment in us iswhy we go, as well as God's
investment in donations.
It's a win-win situation.
Clint (26:54):
This is the shaking awake that I want the church to hear.
I read scriptures and I feellike the stories that you're
telling me.
It's right there.
Nik (27:03):
One of the things that's not.
I don't think it's in the bookor movie.
I sit in what we would call anelder or deacon meeting in
Russia and then in one in China,and the topic of the day was
when we go to prison, whichother deacon elder do I want to
(27:25):
go with?
Because I know the hardestthing is to go into
incarceration by yourself but goin with a piece of the body and
then go in and they know thenumber one way to end their
persecution is to win theirpersecutors and their cellmates
to Christ.
But I thought how does thattranslate to my audience back
(27:48):
home?
But you, just what I was taughtto do that has saved my life
spiritually and physically isthose who mentored me said
Ripken, where you're making yourmistake in evangelism and
church planting is you're.
You're using the Bible in pasttense when what you've got to do
is ask of the story in thisstory, who am I in this story?
(28:12):
Where's my family in this story?
Where's my team in this story?
And every time you have anevangelism, church planting
issue, it's because you're notwriting yourself in the correct
Bible stories and you can'tallow the Bible to remain in
past tense and do that.
But when you make the Bible inpresent active tense, then you
(28:33):
don't have, you're left withoutan excuse.
And see what Americans want.
We want to inherit theresurrection, but we don't want
crucifixion.
You can't have it, Yep, Can'thave it, and that's the cost.
Clint (28:48):
Again, that's the cost that we're talking about.
Nik (28:50):
Well, leaders in persecution are chosen because
they exhibit the fruit of theSpirit and they are evangelized.
In China, you lead five peopleto Christ.
You can teach a Bible study.
Once you've led 25, 30 peopleto Christ, then you're
considered to be an evangelist,a church planner, a pastor,
teacher.
So how many pulpits would beempty this Sunday if the main
(29:14):
criteria for being a leader wasevangelism?
We're chosen based on oureducation and the gifts of the
Spirit rather than the fruit ofthe Spirit.
We can be mean as a snake andhave a PhD in theology.
I'm sitting with these guys inEast Asia and the first question
(29:35):
they had from me is Nick, hasJesus made it to other countries
or has he just made it to ourcountry so far?
And when I told them aboutfaith here and in places like
Somalia and Saudi Arabia andplaces around the world, they
had a party.
They, they wept with joy, theyheld each other, just thrilled
that Jesus had made it to othercountries.
(29:56):
And one of their biggestconcerns today is many of those
who want to go outside of EastAsia can't because they've been
arrested and therefore theycan't get a passport.
Asia can't because they've beenarrested and therefore they
can't get a passport, and yetI'm sitting on the border of the
country, that's just to thenorthwest of China, with a
family of four and they've beentalking the stories of the Bible
(30:19):
quietly, and then they came tothe point where they're going to
sing and they pull their fourchairs together I'm watching
this and their knees aretouching and they say the words
of their praise songs, but theylet no sound come out.
And when I queried this later,they said listen, if our voices
go through the paper, then wallsof the apartment are out, the
(30:42):
windows of a small house.
Our neighbors have to turn usin and before it turns dark
today, the security police willbe here and three generations of
our family will go to the laborcamp and we never know of
anyone that comes out.
I've met great grandchildrenthat were born in those camps
and they'll never, ever come out, because they're trying to sing
(31:03):
praises to God and we men standin church, we let the women
sing and we just stand there,and yet the most powerful tool
we have in our repertoire is tosing God's praises back to him.
That's Paul and Silas in prison.
We're not left without how todo this.
We have both the why we do itand how that we do it, both the
(31:25):
why we do it and the how that wedo it.
And still I go in and I findthis faith that's off the charts
or so biblical.
I know that I can't begin tolive up and I just say where did
you learn to live like this?
Where did you learn to die likethis?
And it just crashes out of mysoul and they say Nick, I
(31:50):
remember my dad taking me and mylittle brother and my sister
into the kitchen, the only roomin the house with heat, and my
mom's there crying, and my dadtakes us in his lap, said kids,
you know the friend in thesecurity police that we have
helped his family and his kidswhen they were sick just called
me.
And because I will not give upbeing pastor of the church,
tomorrow, I'll be arrested, I'llbe put to prison.
He said kids, all over thisextended area they are
(32:16):
systematically hanging Christianfamilies to death who refuse to
give up Jesus.
If, while I'm in prison, I hearthat my wife and three children
are hung rather than denyChrist, I'll be the most proud
man in jail.
And I just said no, where do Iput this?
(32:37):
Where does this fit and I go toanother place in the Ukraine
and I asked them where did youlearn to live like this, how to
die like this?
But the father gathered his kids, his wife, together and said
kids, they are systematicallystarving people.
What they were doing, though,they killed over 11 million
people.
They started with theChristians and this guy told me,
(32:58):
said my dad holding us all time.
He said kids, if we are calledto starve for Jesus, this family
will do so with joy.
And I'm saying God, there's noplace for this to stick.
And now I understand that I'mnot going to be critical of the
bride of Christ ever again.
(33:19):
I'm just pointing the finger atmyself, because, outside of a
dynamic believing community inthe Holy Spirit, this is just
supernatural work.
This is supernatural grace.
Clint (33:34):
So tell me this, nick, or I'll call you Ripken, because
that's what everybody else callsyou.
So, ripken, tell me this.
I think the Western church, somuch of us, we want to go in and
rescue the persecuted church.
What should we be doing for thepersecuted church?
Nik (33:49):
We feel pity for them, we feel sorrow for them, we want to
pay them and we want to rescuethem, and that's exactly what
Satan wants us to do.
You know what they do inAfghanistan.
Somebody would become an activebeliever.
The last one was this older man, and they couldn't shut him up,
and so they got the mosquethere at that place to agree
(34:13):
that the United Nations couldtake him to Europe.
That's all they wanted.
They just wanted to get him outthere.
Well, if they stayed they'dkill him, but if they would
extract him and take him toEurope, then they've just
lessened the power of thekingdom of God right there.
And yet we do the persecutor'sjob for them by thinking what
(34:34):
they need is our pity and thatthey need to be rescued.
I'm going to tell you somethingthat nobody that's listening to
this broadcast will believe.
I've been with believers inTaliban held territories that
led 35 women to Christ.
A single lady Never met anybodylike her in life.
She's one of two people thatfound Jesus by herself, was
(34:57):
literate, read the Bible.
No one else ever witnessed toher, and by the time I caught up
with her, she'd led 35 women toChrist.
They'd been baptized by eachother and were in small groups,
and they were out to kill herfor three different reasons.
She'd led 35 women to Christ,they'd been baptized by each
other and were in small groups,and they were out to kill her
for three different reasons.
The Taliban had threethoughtless on her on her, and
the United Nations is trying torelocate her to St Louis.
(35:18):
And I begged her not to leave.
And she said, uncle Nick, youknow they're going to beat me.
So we took a half a day and welooked at those stories in the
Bible and she said, uncle Nick,you know they might put me in
jail.
And we looked at some of thosestories, old and New Testament,
(35:42):
and she said, uncle Nick, theymight kill me.
And we had to talk honestly.
See, I'm not near as dangerousto the local faith system as
this lady is.
The unbelievable thing is I'lljust describe to you people who
are the Apostle Pauls, who arethe Phoebes, who are the Esthers
and Lydia's of their country,and when they are brought to the
(36:03):
Western world, they have scarson their wrists, women on their
back where they've been flayed,they have scars on their soul
and after 10 years, every 10believer we keep up with, after
10 years of being in America,only one of them are still
practicing their faith, becausethey thought that Christians
were like the ones that came tothem and brought them the gospel
(36:25):
.
And when they meet WesternChristianity and they say this
is what I was going to die for,this is what I was beaten for,
Nick tell us how.
Clint (36:40):
How do we go about counting the cost?
We, as the Western church Ithink I'm really being so
convicted by entitlement how doI go about learning how to count
the cost in the context?
And I'm asking, on behalf ofour listeners, the same thing we
like to say on this podcast.
We'll hear these incrediblestories all the time, just like
yours, and we'll say look, howcould you not give your life to
(37:03):
this?
And, to be honest, what I'msaying oftentimes when I say
that statement is how could younot want to give your time and
your treasure and your efforttowards these things?
That's what I mean by life.
But what you're calling us totoday is to be willing to give
your life your actual breath,your final breath.
How do we count the?
Nik (37:24):
cost.
My hardest adjustment to Africawas my grandfather and father
would say these pithy Kentuckysayings.
One of them was I'd rather be apoor man and go to heaven than
a rich man go to hell.
I thought that was from theBible, never found it out.
(37:46):
And then I have been criticalof and preached from the rich
young ruler passages.
And then when I got to Africa,I realized that if my kids had
access to medical care, accessto clean water, access to food,
access to homeschooling thesethings, that I'm in the top 3%
(38:12):
of the richest people in Africa.
And when I realized I am therich young ruler, it was
crushing.
It was crushing Our churches.
Western Christianity is filledwith the rich young ruler and
what Jesus says lay it down andlet's go.
(38:33):
And the only way that you learnthis, you can't study it.
It doesn't matter how manydegrees in missions or theology
that I get, this is Christianityapplied or theology that I get.
This is Christianity applied.
Brothers and sisters inpersecution are experiencing
what they are for two reasons.
(38:54):
I think this is maybe the onething I would want your
listeners to take from this.
Number one, they've given theirlives to Jesus.
And number two, they shareChrist with their family members
, their neighbors.
They're creating community forthemselves, real community, by
evangelizing, witnessing.
80% of Muslims come to Christthrough having meals with folks
(39:16):
like us in their homes and inour homes, and it just lowers
the temperature and it's just.
The most fun thing I ever do issharing faith in those type of
settings.
And so if I want to identifywith believers in persecution,
it's not through my money, it'snot through rescuing them.
(39:37):
The way I identify withbelievers in persecution is I
give my life to Jesus and I giveJesus the other.
Now if, like a lot ofWesterners, I give my life to
Jesus and I keep them to myself,I'm no longer resonating with
believers in persecution.
I'm identifying with theirpersecutor, because the worst
(39:58):
persecution on earth is to haveno access to Jesus.
So you're either identifyingwith the persecuted or you're
identifying with theirpersecutors.
Clint (40:10):
I don't know any neutral ground I want, I want everybody
to just hear this again.
This is our call to action.
You know we we heard incrediblestories from from nick today
and and I do want to encourageeverybody to go and watch the
documentary and to read some ofthese resources that he has.
But you know we like to haveaction items.
What can we do for thepersecuted church?
(40:32):
And you heard it directly fromthe man himself.
He said first you give yourlife to Jesus and then you give
that away to everybody that'saround you.
That is how we can partner withthe persecuted church around
the world.
Nick man, I'm kind of blownaway and just so, so thankful
for just the encouragement thatyou've given and the conviction,
(40:55):
I think, that you've given,even to me personally.
I'm just so thankful.
Nik (41:06):
What final kind of parting word would you like to have for
our Un unreached podcastaudience?
Today, man, Ruth and I teachwhat we have learned from
believers in persecutionoverseas for five full days.
We've taken those five daysthat we teach for people who are
really serious in the midst ofthis God's battle and,
professionally, have recorded usteaching it, and now we have 21
(41:29):
hours and 19 segments.
And for those who sinned or goacross the stream or go across
the ocean, here's what 100% ofthis comes from 650 plus
interviews in 72 countries frombelievers in persecution
teaching us how to be sheepamong wolves and knowing that
Jesus said yes, and you're goingto be arrested and they're
(41:51):
going to do terrible things toyou.
You don't have access to Caesarand Pilate, so through your
persecution, I'm sending you asa witness up the ladder, all the
way up the ladder.
And Paul defers they're goingto kill him in a local level and
he deferred to Rome and he gotto witness all the way to Rome.
(42:13):
I watched somebody do that lastweek overseas.
He's not going to make it out,but by the time he ends his race
, he is going to be a witness tohis family, to his local
community, to the local mosqueand they're going to take him
out.
But he learned from the ApostlePaul to defer to Rome so that
he could witness on that ship,on that journey, take other
(42:35):
people with him.
But here he is, facing the endof his journey and he is saying
I can't do this by myself.
Clint (42:44):
Our response to that?
To hearing that story of thatthat's happening right now, our
response cannot be pity.
Our response has to be absolutecelebration and praise to God
that that is happening in thekingdom for his church.
Praise God, that's incredible.
Nick, I can't thank you enoughfor taking time to do this and
to share your story with us andjust to be able to communicate
(43:06):
the incredible things thatyou've seen God at work, doing
just around the world in thepersecuted church.
Would you mind just praying,pray for the church, even to
help us understand how we canpray for the church, and there's
not a persecuted church or ablessed church, the church of
Jesus Christ around the world,to see his kingdom come and his
will being done.
Would you mind praying for us,christ around?
Nik (43:28):
the world to see his kingdom come and his will being
done.
Would you mind praying for us?
Lord Jesus, you know mynegative reaction when somebody
went after my bride and how youtaught me and somewhat crushed
me when you reminded me that I'dbeen going after your bride for
a long time.
(43:48):
And, father, I, neither of us,want to be heard to be critical
of your bride.
We just want her to claim herbridegroom, we just want her to
stand up and learn to crawl,learn to walk and learn to run
and learn to crawl, learn towalk and learn to run, and we
(44:14):
just want to free her from thefinancial blessings that she has
and the walls that seeminglycontain her.
Father, the things that areconsuming the church these days
in America often do not consumeyou.
Lord, let us put our fingers onthe pulse of the Holy Spirit and
(44:38):
just determine that we willopen the doors to our home and
have our neighbors in for mealsand that we'll get ourselves
invited to our internationalfamily of God, our international
laws, people.
That is just so easy to do andthat, lord, we will dedicate not
just to ourselves, but when wehold that newest of infant, even
(45:03):
while still in the mother'swomb.
We will give, not loan, thatchild to you.
Lord Jesus, forgive us forthinking that we own anything,
but allow us to hear again thebillions of people that are
(45:27):
crying out in their lostnessbecause they don't want their
eternity to be like their lifeand present active tense.
Lord Jesus, thank you for mybrother, thank you for Clint for
his ministry, and we pray thatwe who oftentimes feel like
(45:50):
we're telling truth, that wewill walk humbly ourselves in
the sight of God, and we canonly do that through Jesus.
We love you, lord.
You're worth everything that wehave and everything that we are
.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Dustin (46:12):
Amen.
Thank you for listening toUnreached.
Our sincere desire is that whatyou've heard today will cause
you to see the mission of Goddifferently and your role in it
more clearly.
If this adds value for you andwe hope it does would you please
rate and review the podcastwherever you listen.
Also, share with your family,your friends, your church, your
life group, small group, d group, wherever you do life, and if
(46:34):
you want to connect with us,find us on Instagram at
unreachedpodcast, or email us atunreachedpodcast at gmailcom.
In Revelation 7, john shares his vision of heaven,
with members from every tribe,tongue, people and language
standing in the throne roombefore the Lamb.
Yet today there are still over7,000 unreached people groups
around the world.
For the last six years, myfamily and friends have been on
a journey to find, vet and fundthe task remaining.
(00:28):
Come journey with us to theends of the earth as we share
the supernatural stories of Godat work for the men and women he
has called to reach theunreached.
Clint (00:42):
Hey friends, thanks so much for tuning in to a new
episode of the Unreached podcast.
Today we have a special guest.
Nick Ripken is a over 30 yearmissionary veteran who has
literally traversed the entireglobe, lived in different
countries around the world andinterviewed the persecuted
church.
He's actually one of theworld's experts on persecution
(01:05):
and the church and what God'sdone in that.
He is here today to help usanswer the question is Jesus
worth it?
Nick, thanks so much for beingon the podcast.
Nik (01:16):
Hey, it's our joy, especially to answer the
question that you posed.
Clint (01:22):
Well, all right.
So here's where I want to start.
Today there's a movie, there isa book.
You're an author, a filmmaker,a really good storyteller.
There's so many differentresources where I want our folks
to be able to be pointed toearly on in the podcast here.
So I'm going to point everybodyto nickripkincom.
I want to point everybody tothe Insanity of God, which is a
book that you have written, butalso a documentary that has come
(01:46):
out.
My wife and I watched it lastnight.
We were just absolutely movedand cannot wait for everybody to
hear some of these stories ofGod at work.
But there's a moment early inyour ministry where you have
moved out of the hills andhollers of Kentucky and you've
moved across the globe and youand your wife are going through
the book of Acts together andyou wrestle with the question
(02:08):
what is a missionary?
And so I want to start rightthere, nick what is a missionary
?
Nik (02:14):
Well, no one's ever defined it for us.
My wife and I have a bachelor'sfrom the same Baptist college.
She has a master's there, Ihave a master's in doctorate
from seminary, was on themission field for 10 years and
they were asking to move us in aplace that was less strategic,
not more strategic, and had moreto do with the non-mational
(02:38):
identity than true churchplanting.
And so we're in a countrythat's had workers like
ourselves for close on 300 yearsoff and on.
I hope your listeners know it'snot a biblical word.
You don't ever find that wordanywhere in the Bible and it's a
concept of being sent out.
I'm not sure of the etymologyof the word, I'm really not sure
(03:02):
of its origin, but we sat downand I wrote the word missionary
on a piece of paper.
And we just more thandevotionally, because we read
chapters a day together andtossed them back and forth, and
at the end of that we wrote onthat piece of paper someone that
sent out, according to Matthew28, is to engage those who have
(03:24):
little or no chance to hear haveaccess to the gospel.
And two months later we hadmoved from South Africa into
Kenya.
We were told it would takethree to five years to get in
Somalia, because it was thecivil war and violence and
starvation was just heating up,and violence and starvation was
just heating up and so, twomonths after learning our three
(03:46):
third language, I tried to getinto Somalia.
Two months later, I'm inSomalia for the first time in
six months.
We're feeding 50,000 people aday, burying 20 kids a day and
starting to mobile medicalclinics, dig water wells, resell
to refugees, just whatever wecould do, and there's only like
(04:09):
four groups of us, small groups,tiny groups that found
different ways of getting in andout of the country, because we
were in there about a year and ahalf before the military folks
came in and everything changedand then, when Black Hawk went
down, everything changed againand there were like four of us
left in there for another yearuntil we all got chased out.
But still, if your listeners arenot aware, I follow often,
(04:31):
clint, the number of people whoare supposed to be unreached and
unengaged, and from the peopleI respect the most, that figure
goes from 2.some billion peopleto 4.3 billion people who have
no scripture, not one verse, nosongs, no missionaries, no
(04:52):
bodies to attend.
And when you have that big avariance in billions of people.
What that says about usChristians is we don't know says
about us Christians is we don'tknow.
We have not today gone to theends of the earth to know where
they are, how many of them thereare, what languages they speak,
(05:14):
what food they eat.
We do not know.
Seventy-three percentapproximately of all
missionaries today are inChristian countries, so what is
our response?
Clint (05:26):
What are we supposed to do?
Nik (05:28):
Well, I've had people basically put my career in
jeopardy when I was paid forwhat we were doing or we had a
stipend for doing it, because Iwas told by someone in very
high-level importance.
They asked me about the Somaliwork and I said hey, I know
(05:48):
you're here, I can get you on aC-130 tomorrow, go with you to
Mogadishu, show you what it'slike.
He said no, no, no, I just needto do this.
On a conversation on the phonethey said when I come in tonight
with my 30, some volunteers, wewould have baptized probably an
average of 150 people.
What have you done?
How many people have come toChrist last year in Somalia?
(06:11):
How much money have you spentand is it cost effective to be
there?
And I knew then this was not abrother to brother conversation.
I said listen, I explained anumber of things.
I said we spent a little bitover two million dollars.
We had three believers martyredand one Somali come to faith.
And he said how can you justifywasting God's money and
(06:35):
throwing it away and things likethis?
And I said, sir, I don't haveto justify it, but I have to be
obedient.
Jesus said go to all the world.
And he didn't say go where it'sresponsive only, to all the
world.
And he didn't say go where it'sresponsive only.
And I said, matter of fact, wedon't know whether Somali people
are responsive or not, becausethey've never been given a
chance to respond.
Clint, Muslims who have accessto Jesus are responding in
(06:57):
higher percentages 100 timesover than Americans who have
access to Jesus.
Wow, Muslims are seeking God inways that would baffle
Americans and the more that theyseek God and they can't find
him, the angrier they get.
Because can you imagine yourwhole life's endeavor, you pray
(07:22):
and you fast and you give andyou pilgrimage, and still you
know that the inner man has notbeen satisfied, has not been
reached, and they live in fearof that one percent, that they
believe that sin is not passedon and if they face Allah and
they have one bad deed over onegood deed, they go to the hell.
(07:43):
And they have one good deedover one good deed, they go to
the hell.
And they have one good deedover the bad deed, they go to
the paradise and they live inabject fear of the 1%.
Clint (07:51):
What a terrible way to be able to live in absolute fear
of what's going to happen to youin the afterlife.
So when the gospel of Jesus,the grace of Jesus, goes into
this broken, busted up soil, Ican't imagine the hope that it
brings to people.
But Somalia specifically.
This was an insanely difficultassignment for you guys.
(08:15):
Tell me about what you saw inSomalia and how it changed your
path.
Nik (08:19):
Well, it changed my whole way of looking at God.
I'm a risk taker.
Both my wife and I, as I saidin the film that you watched,
are PKs.
She's a pastor's kid, I'm apagan's kid, but I know what
it's like to be lost and be in aChristian environment.
Nobody would let my family in,and so we were praying about not
(08:42):
wasting our lives And'd havefound who this missionary was.
And what was coming up on ourscreen was Sudan, and it was
confusing about Christian northor south or Muslim north.
But Somalia was rated at thenumber one human tragedy place
in the world, and for Somalis,christian was military, was
(09:06):
government.
Anybody from the West wasChristian.
Anybody from Islamic world was,of course, a Muslim, and they
wrote that in over us.
And so people who came inSomalia committing adultery with
their different you knowsecular organizations with the
military, drinking alcohol,pushing people around they are
(09:29):
as much a Christian as our teamwas.
And what would happen?
After about six months?
A random it was weekly, two orthree times a week or more
Somali would walk up to me in amarket and just in a normal, out
loud voice are you a missionary?
Well, that's like asking me ifI want to be shot.
(09:52):
What I've learned and foreverchanged me and those who
mentored me, is that the contentand the context of the Bible
are equally authoritative.
And yet if you just preach thecontent, you'll turn Jesus into
a white guy from the South andpeople always read that into
(10:15):
that and they'll get bent out ofshape by demons and people
being overtly healed.
What other choice did God have?
I walked into the only hospitalno roof, no windows or anything
that was still running in allof Somalia.
A Russian trained lady was theonly doctor in the whole country
.
All the men had fled.
I'd met some of them in Nairobiand I walked in and sitting on
(10:37):
Bear Springs was this starved,emaciated, swollen baby,
staring-eyed little girl.
She was three years old, sheweighed 11 pounds.
I walked over to her and Ishouldn't have not supposed to
and I took my index finger andrubbed it down her cheek.
All of a sudden she just lockedin on me and she looked at me
(11:01):
and she just smiled a morebeatific smile, and I recoiled
from her in heart because Ithought, god, where in the world
did a smile come from in thatlittle girl?
And so I just said to God.
I said this one goes home.
There was no borders and I hadso many relationships in the
embassy and different groups ofpeople I could have got her to
(11:24):
Nairobi and I could have adoptedher.
And so the doctor came and gotme.
There had been a littleaccident.
We had to set a little boy'sarm and leg.
I went out the car and got ropeand cardboard boxes and helped
set his arm and I came back andthat little girl was gone and I
said where is she?
And the doctor said well, Ithink it's time for her bath.
(11:46):
And she came back in 10 minuteslater and she said Dr Nick, she
died while we were working onthat little boy.
And I went to village aftervillage after village in the
South, probably more Southeast,where no one had been for three
to five years, and most of thosevillages there was not a person
left alive.
And I would follow skeletonsfrom a main dirt road and there
(12:11):
would be a skeleton for everykilometer and then there'd be a
skeleton for every halfkilometer and every hundred
meters and then every 15 feet.
And you get back in thevillages and they're so dry in
the air so you know no moisturein the air.
I walk in a in a hut andthere's a granny stirring grass
in the middle of the hut andthere's a 14 somewhat year old,
(12:35):
beautiful somali girl on the bedand she died pulling a comb
through her hair.
Granny had died stirring thegrass trying to prepare to eat
and it looked like they died for15 minutes before.
I got there and we would drivethrough these small towns that
were like ghost towns, and thefirst one I went through that
the US Relief Organizationmilitary rented two pickup
(12:58):
trucks, six guards, two drivers.
They gave us all the dieselfuel and MREs for a month out.
We stopped in a small town.
There was nobody there.
All of a sudden, men and womencame through the windows and out
these broken doors and they'retrying to shove their children
in my lap saying in Somalia, allmy kids are dead.
This one gets to live.
(13:18):
And I'm starting to open thedoor and the driver hit me in
the chest and the guard behindme pulled me back and they went,
tearing out of this town.
They got about 10, 15kilometers out.
They stopped and they circledme and they said Ripken, if we
had stopped there they wouldhave taken our weapons, they
would taken our trucks, they'dtaken our food and we would be
(13:41):
dead, like right now, and if youdo this again, we will shoot
you ourselves.
So I had to learn on the spot,every time we approached the
urban area, that there might besomeone alive.
We'd park outside, walk in atmidnight, be there at daybreak,
listen for the voices ofchildren that were gathered
somewhere, try and be kept alive, and then that's how we would
(14:03):
begin a conversation on how tomeet some needs if we could meet
some needs and yet preserve ourown lives at the same time.
And so Jesus said Clint, I'msending you out as sheep among
wolves.
I have a bachelor's, master'sand a doctorate from the
denominational schools.
I had one class out of all ofthat that engaged the nations.
(14:26):
All those other tens ofthousands of hours taught me how
to be sheep among sheep.
And as we're gathered inchurches and the more we throw
stones at lost people and thinkgovernment solves our problem,
we're just building thickerwalls, taller walls problem.
We're just building thickerwalls, taller walls, and we want
to stay with the sheep.
Clint (14:52):
Nick, it sounds like that you were trained to be a New
Testament Christian in a NewTestament church, but God threw
you into what sounded like theOld Testament in Somalia.
You just walked into the OldTestament.
Nik (15:00):
It was a hiatus because I grew up in the Old Testament.
Then I got all those years incollege and seminary and they
taught me how I couldn't eventalk to my own family because
they gave me tools forChristians.
You're very insightful, becausewhat our main task is is for
(15:24):
outsiders.
We don't have to do this forinsiders or those who come to
Christ out of you, know Islam orcommunism or Buddhism or
Hinduism.
They already know the pricethat they're going to pay.
We really have to help themunderstand what it means to be
sheep among wolves.
But how to be smart sheep, youdon't have to be dumb sheep.
(15:44):
Every believer in Somalia 150when we got there four left
alive when we were kicked, diedand only one died of natural
causes.
They took their corpses andthrew them in pit toilets and
(16:06):
threw them in garbage heaps andlet them burn, threw them in the
Indian Ocean where the sharksfed, and so preparing people to
go from the New Testament to theOld Testament.
People just sort of stare atyou and think, well, that's
exciting, until they get thereand the Old Testament eats them
up.
I watched non-believing Somalisgiven the 13-pound Somali green
(16:29):
Bible and 30 minutes after theywere giving it.
They had a bullet put in theirhead and they were killed and
they went to eternity withoutJesus because somebody who
didn't learn the language, learnthe culture and tell all what
these people really need is theword of God.
This guy could not read a rightword, not a word.
And they were told this is abook from the God and it's a
(16:51):
book of power.
Why wouldn't you want somethinglike that?
And when the fundamentalistssaw him walking in the market
with that, they didn't ask himhis name or anything, they just
shot him dead with that.
They didn't ask him his name oranything, they just shot him
dead.
Believers in persecution havelived under this well, like in
China since 48, in the oldSoviet Union since 1917.
They've learned this over andover and over again and they
(17:13):
know how to be people of faithin virtually an Old Testament
environment.
A believer in Turkey.
When I said something an OldTestament environment, a
believer in Turkey.
When I said something.
It was horrible what I said tohim.
He talked about praying thatthe government would change so
that they would be free to haveopen churches, and I said the
stupid Western person that I am,why don't you just do what
(17:34):
God's told you to do.
And he looked at me.
He said oh, you're that kind ofWestern Christian.
He said what did you read inuniversity?
I said I got a double major inhistory, religion.
He said I hope you learn fromyour religion, majors.
Obvious, you learn nothing fromyour history, major.
And then he changed my life.
He said he said, ripken,there's two types of law codes
(17:57):
in the world.
All of you Westerners were bornunder common law, and common law
says you're born with the rightto everything.
Republicans, democrats, fightover really how big or how small
government should be, butyou're born with the right to
everything.
Under Roman law, every believerin the world today that is
(18:19):
persecuted for their faith thatI know of live under Roman law.
And Roman law says you're bornwith the right to nothing and
it's the job of government totell you who you can marry,
where you can work, what schoolyou go to, what area of the
country you live in.
And I can give you thousands ofexamples of this.
(18:40):
And yet Jesus was able tointegrate into that Roman law
world where you're born with theright to nothing, and honor God
in it.
We come with our common law andwe read that into every culture
on earth and just say this isyour God-given right.
And they'll say when did he getit?
(19:00):
Show us the stories in theBible where, as followers of
Jesus, we have the right to bepartners with Caesar.
And when Pilate says shall Inot give you back your God?
And our religious leaders saidwe have no God but Caesar.
I can hear that echoing allover the place through Christian
(19:22):
voices today.
Believers in persecution helpme, get my kingdom stuff in
order, the worst thing that wehave done and where you can help
us probably the most.
Satan doesn't care.
You can say that the Bible isan errant, infallible,
authoritative word of God andit's exact words and deeds that
(19:48):
God used to do.
Edible is content as long asyou put the Bible and the acts
of God in past tense.
And the kingdom of God issomething we study about and
read about and talk about thosepeople while we're with our
people.
But if what Ruth and I can sayafter 37 years overseas is that
(20:12):
everything that God and alsoevil has ever done in human
history, that war is still goingon and we will choose sides,
but Somalia, I would take allthis stuff and sort of put it in
a closet in my mind, my soul,and then, when I'd get out after
four weeks, six weeks, I'dspend all the appropriate time,
(20:35):
ruth and I, telling our boyswhat's going on, age,
appropriate, and then she and Iwould lay in the bed till about
three o'clock in the morningtelling her things.
I wouldn't tell anybody elseand I met with five guys the day
after I'm home foraccountability and support and
what I'm doing is I'm gettingall this evil stuff that's
(20:57):
lodged in the different closetsor rooms of my mind and not
allowing it to become a cancerthat affects my family, my life,
the rest of my life In twomonths' time.
We got kicked out of Somalia.
Our 16-year-old son died onEaster Sunday morning, eight
days after his birthday, andthen two months to that day that
he died, ruth's mother died.
(21:20):
And the outpouring of love fromour Muslim neighbors, our Hindu
neighbors there's 1,200 missionorganizations in Nairobi and we
didn't fix another meal fromMarch until we came home in June
to put our oldest in thecollege.
But our Kenyan pastor came tous and he said Ripken, he always
(21:43):
talked to me like the commanderon the field.
He said Ripken, when yourneighbors and all these white
people stop coming to your houseand your church is going to
come in the evening.
And I said Pastor Mwanji, Ican't take it.
I can't take white people andneighbors all day and then
worship with my church fourhours at night.
And he was so hurt.
(22:05):
He looked at me and he said doyou know us so little?
I said I don't even know whatyou're talking about.
So the answer is yes.
So you're going to have to tellme what you're talking about.
So for the next 10 days andnight, around dusk when we
finished evening meal, theywatched and we're getting our
living sons ready for bed anddoing our family devotions.
(22:28):
They quietly came into thehouse, stood in the living room,
seven different tribes, praiseteam of about 10 people.
If you've never heard Africanharmony, I don't think you've
heard music and they sang us tosleep every night.
I don't think you've heardmusic and they sang us to sleep
every night.
And we're holding our kids andcrying, and I'm holding Ruth and
(22:48):
we're praying and crying andwe're hearing this African
melody go into every nook andcranny of our house and the last
thing that we ever knew forthose 10 nights they sang us
into the arms of Jesus.
That's what we call church.
Clint (23:08):
And there's not a body of Christ anywhere in the world
that can't do that kind of stuff.
Man, nick, that's incredible.
Thank you so much for sharingthat story so far.
This is just unbelievable tohear the work of God and how
he's used this incredibletragedy.
I can't.
First and foremost, it just isso impactful to me that once you
see what you saw in Somalia,inaction is not an option.
Like you, you are called intoaction by God to do this work at
(23:33):
that point because you've seenthe cost that it takes.
And then so for you guys to seethe cost there and then to pay
the cost yourself as your sonpasses away and to see the
church come around you.
I understand why the questionin your soul at that point had
to be is Jesus worth it?
(23:54):
You and your communitysurrounds you, that's one thing.
But then you went out to therest of the persecuted church to
go and find their answers tothat same questions.
I want to hear how God calledyou or moved you in that moment
of you guys could have just beenlike I'm out, I'm done, I've
(24:15):
seen too much, I've paid toomuch, but instead you wanted to
go deeper.
Why, why?
Nik (24:22):
You know, I think, to give justice to your question, we had
been everywhere we could in theWestern world to find help and
couldn't find any.
We had people that signed up topray and to give, and seminary
professors, college professors,church leaders.
They, just as we told the story, they just said, dude, what do
(24:47):
you need?
Do you need money?
What do you need Not say I needyour people, I need you to come
and touch it and taste it andfeel it.
I think I came to the point.
If Jesus isn't the answer andif he's not worth it, then we're
back to the Old Testament Jobissue.
(25:07):
Do you just live and die, likea lot of people do?
And you live and die withouthope, because you never had hope
.
And people have asked me this ahundred times why in the heck
would you do this?
I said what would you want meto do if those were your kids?
I don't know that this isanywhere.
(25:28):
No, it's not anywhere.
Our son had just died, my wife'sover a few feet away, communing
with Jesus in a way that onlyshe can, and I'm standing over
our son and, of course, weeping,but my prayer of God was God,
why?
Why has this journey only costme one child.
(25:52):
I know of no family in Somaliathat lost each child.
I know most families in Somalia.
Only the husband or the wife isdead and they left them alive
as a punishment.
I know of no women over 13 inSomalia that haven't been raped
eight to 18 times.
(26:12):
Why is it that I only have topay a lesser price?
And it doesn't mean that Igrieved any less than anybody
else, but I could breathe.
I could pray and breathe in andout in context of what that
event meant on a global stage.
(26:33):
You see, what I'm hinting at.
For us to fail to go is to failto understand the very nature
of God and put our fingers onhis pulse.
It is God's investment in us iswhy we go, as well as God's
investment in donations.
It's a win-win situation.
Clint (26:54):
This is the shaking awake that I want the church to hear.
I read scriptures and I feellike the stories that you're
telling me.
It's right there.
Nik (27:03):
One of the things that's not.
I don't think it's in the bookor movie.
I sit in what we would call anelder or deacon meeting in
Russia and then in one in China,and the topic of the day was
when we go to prison, whichother deacon elder do I want to
(27:25):
go with?
Because I know the hardestthing is to go into
incarceration by yourself but goin with a piece of the body and
then go in and they know thenumber one way to end their
persecution is to win theirpersecutors and their cellmates
to Christ.
But I thought how does thattranslate to my audience back
(27:48):
home?
But you, just what I was taughtto do that has saved my life
spiritually and physically isthose who mentored me said
Ripken, where you're making yourmistake in evangelism and
church planting is you're.
You're using the Bible in pasttense when what you've got to do
is ask of the story in thisstory, who am I in this story?
(28:12):
Where's my family in this story?
Where's my team in this story?
And every time you have anevangelism, church planting
issue, it's because you're notwriting yourself in the correct
Bible stories and you can'tallow the Bible to remain in
past tense and do that.
But when you make the Bible inpresent active tense, then you
(28:33):
don't have, you're left withoutan excuse.
And see what Americans want.
We want to inherit theresurrection, but we don't want
crucifixion.
You can't have it, Yep, Can'thave it, and that's the cost.
Clint (28:48):
Again, that's the cost that we're talking about.
Nik (28:50):
Well, leaders in persecution are chosen because
they exhibit the fruit of theSpirit and they are evangelized.
In China, you lead five peopleto Christ.
You can teach a Bible study.
Once you've led 25, 30 peopleto Christ, then you're
considered to be an evangelist,a church planner, a pastor,
teacher.
So how many pulpits would beempty this Sunday if the main
(29:14):
criteria for being a leader wasevangelism?
We're chosen based on oureducation and the gifts of the
Spirit rather than the fruit ofthe Spirit.
We can be mean as a snake andhave a PhD in theology.
I'm sitting with these guys inEast Asia and the first question
(29:35):
they had from me is Nick, hasJesus made it to other countries
or has he just made it to ourcountry so far?
And when I told them aboutfaith here and in places like
Somalia and Saudi Arabia andplaces around the world, they
had a party.
They, they wept with joy, theyheld each other, just thrilled
that Jesus had made it to othercountries.
(29:56):
And one of their biggestconcerns today is many of those
who want to go outside of EastAsia can't because they've been
arrested and therefore theycan't get a passport.
Asia can't because they've beenarrested and therefore they
can't get a passport, and yetI'm sitting on the border of the
country, that's just to thenorthwest of China, with a
family of four and they've beentalking the stories of the Bible
(30:19):
quietly, and then they came tothe point where they're going to
sing and they pull their fourchairs together I'm watching
this and their knees aretouching and they say the words
of their praise songs, but theylet no sound come out.
And when I queried this later,they said listen, if our voices
go through the paper, then wallsof the apartment are out, the
(30:42):
windows of a small house.
Our neighbors have to turn usin and before it turns dark
today, the security police willbe here and three generations of
our family will go to the laborcamp and we never know of
anyone that comes out.
I've met great grandchildrenthat were born in those camps
and they'll never, ever come out, because they're trying to sing
(31:03):
praises to God and we men standin church, we let the women
sing and we just stand there,and yet the most powerful tool
we have in our repertoire is tosing God's praises back to him.
That's Paul and Silas in prison.
We're not left without how todo this.
We have both the why we do itand how that we do it, both the
(31:25):
why we do it and the how that wedo it.
And still I go in and I findthis faith that's off the charts
or so biblical.
I know that I can't begin tolive up and I just say where did
you learn to live like this?
Where did you learn to die likethis?
And it just crashes out of mysoul and they say Nick, I
(31:50):
remember my dad taking me and mylittle brother and my sister
into the kitchen, the only roomin the house with heat, and my
mom's there crying, and my dadtakes us in his lap, said kids,
you know the friend in thesecurity police that we have
helped his family and his kidswhen they were sick just called
me.
And because I will not give upbeing pastor of the church,
tomorrow, I'll be arrested, I'llbe put to prison.
He said kids, all over thisextended area they are
(32:16):
systematically hanging Christianfamilies to death who refuse to
give up Jesus.
If, while I'm in prison, I hearthat my wife and three children
are hung rather than denyChrist, I'll be the most proud
man in jail.
And I just said no, where do Iput this?
(32:37):
Where does this fit and I go toanother place in the Ukraine
and I asked them where did youlearn to live like this, how to
die like this?
But the father gathered his kids, his wife, together and said
kids, they are systematicallystarving people.
What they were doing, though,they killed over 11 million
people.
They started with theChristians and this guy told me,
(32:58):
said my dad holding us all time.
He said kids, if we are calledto starve for Jesus, this family
will do so with joy.
And I'm saying God, there's noplace for this to stick.
And now I understand that I'mnot going to be critical of the
bride of Christ ever again.
(33:19):
I'm just pointing the finger atmyself, because, outside of a
dynamic believing community inthe Holy Spirit, this is just
supernatural work.
This is supernatural grace.
Clint (33:34):
So tell me this, nick, or I'll call you Ripken, because
that's what everybody else callsyou.
So, ripken, tell me this.
I think the Western church, somuch of us, we want to go in and
rescue the persecuted church.
What should we be doing for thepersecuted church?
Nik (33:49):
We feel pity for them, we feel sorrow for them, we want to
pay them and we want to rescuethem, and that's exactly what
Satan wants us to do.
You know what they do inAfghanistan.
Somebody would become an activebeliever.
The last one was this older man, and they couldn't shut him up,
and so they got the mosquethere at that place to agree
(34:13):
that the United Nations couldtake him to Europe.
That's all they wanted.
They just wanted to get him outthere.
Well, if they stayed they'dkill him, but if they would
extract him and take him toEurope, then they've just
lessened the power of thekingdom of God right there.
And yet we do the persecutor'sjob for them by thinking what
(34:34):
they need is our pity and thatthey need to be rescued.
I'm going to tell you somethingthat nobody that's listening to
this broadcast will believe.
I've been with believers inTaliban held territories that
led 35 women to Christ.
A single lady Never met anybodylike her in life.
She's one of two people thatfound Jesus by herself, was
(34:57):
literate, read the Bible.
No one else ever witnessed toher, and by the time I caught up
with her, she'd led 35 women toChrist.
They'd been baptized by eachother and were in small groups,
and they were out to kill herfor three different reasons.
She'd led 35 women to Christ,they'd been baptized by each
other and were in small groups,and they were out to kill her
for three different reasons.
The Taliban had threethoughtless on her on her, and
the United Nations is trying torelocate her to St Louis.
(35:18):
And I begged her not to leave.
And she said, uncle Nick, youknow they're going to beat me.
So we took a half a day and welooked at those stories in the
Bible and she said, uncle Nick,you know they might put me in
jail.
And we looked at some of thosestories, old and New Testament,
(35:42):
and she said, uncle Nick, theymight kill me.
And we had to talk honestly.
See, I'm not near as dangerousto the local faith system as
this lady is.
The unbelievable thing is I'lljust describe to you people who
are the Apostle Pauls, who arethe Phoebes, who are the Esthers
and Lydia's of their country,and when they are brought to the
(36:03):
Western world, they have scarson their wrists, women on their
back where they've been flayed,they have scars on their soul
and after 10 years, every 10believer we keep up with, after
10 years of being in America,only one of them are still
practicing their faith, becausethey thought that Christians
were like the ones that came tothem and brought them the gospel
(36:25):
.
And when they meet WesternChristianity and they say this
is what I was going to die for,this is what I was beaten for,
Nick tell us how.
Clint (36:40):
How do we go about counting the cost?
We, as the Western church Ithink I'm really being so
convicted by entitlement how doI go about learning how to count
the cost in the context?
And I'm asking, on behalf ofour listeners, the same thing we
like to say on this podcast.
We'll hear these incrediblestories all the time, just like
yours, and we'll say look, howcould you not give your life to
(37:03):
this?
And, to be honest, what I'msaying oftentimes when I say
that statement is how could younot want to give your time and
your treasure and your efforttowards these things?
That's what I mean by life.
But what you're calling us totoday is to be willing to give
your life your actual breath,your final breath.
How do we count the?
Nik (37:24):
cost.
My hardest adjustment to Africawas my grandfather and father
would say these pithy Kentuckysayings.
One of them was I'd rather be apoor man and go to heaven than
a rich man go to hell.
I thought that was from theBible, never found it out.
(37:46):
And then I have been criticalof and preached from the rich
young ruler passages.
And then when I got to Africa,I realized that if my kids had
access to medical care, accessto clean water, access to food,
access to homeschooling thesethings, that I'm in the top 3%
(38:12):
of the richest people in Africa.
And when I realized I am therich young ruler, it was
crushing.
It was crushing Our churches.
Western Christianity is filledwith the rich young ruler and
what Jesus says lay it down andlet's go.
(38:33):
And the only way that you learnthis, you can't study it.
It doesn't matter how manydegrees in missions or theology
that I get, this is Christianityapplied or theology that I get.
This is Christianity applied.
Brothers and sisters inpersecution are experiencing
what they are for two reasons.
(38:54):
I think this is maybe the onething I would want your
listeners to take from this.
Number one, they've given theirlives to Jesus.
And number two, they shareChrist with their family members
, their neighbors.
They're creating community forthemselves, real community, by
evangelizing, witnessing.
80% of Muslims come to Christthrough having meals with folks
(39:16):
like us in their homes and inour homes, and it just lowers
the temperature and it's just.
The most fun thing I ever do issharing faith in those type of
settings.
And so if I want to identifywith believers in persecution,
it's not through my money, it'snot through rescuing them.
(39:37):
The way I identify withbelievers in persecution is I
give my life to Jesus and I giveJesus the other.
Now if, like a lot ofWesterners, I give my life to
Jesus and I keep them to myself,I'm no longer resonating with
believers in persecution.
I'm identifying with theirpersecutor, because the worst
(39:58):
persecution on earth is to haveno access to Jesus.
So you're either identifyingwith the persecuted or you're
identifying with theirpersecutors.
Clint (40:10):
I don't know any neutral ground I want, I want everybody
to just hear this again.
This is our call to action.
You know we we heard incrediblestories from from nick today
and and I do want to encourageeverybody to go and watch the
documentary and to read some ofthese resources that he has.
But you know we like to haveaction items.
What can we do for thepersecuted church?
(40:32):
And you heard it directly fromthe man himself.
He said first you give yourlife to Jesus and then you give
that away to everybody that'saround you.
That is how we can partner withthe persecuted church around
the world.
Nick man, I'm kind of blownaway and just so, so thankful
for just the encouragement thatyou've given and the conviction,
(40:55):
I think, that you've given,even to me personally.
I'm just so thankful.
Nik (41:06):
What final kind of parting word would you like to have for
our Un unreached podcastaudience?
Today, man, Ruth and I teachwhat we have learned from
believers in persecutionoverseas for five full days.
We've taken those five daysthat we teach for people who are
really serious in the midst ofthis God's battle and,
professionally, have recorded usteaching it, and now we have 21
(41:29):
hours and 19 segments.
And for those who sinned or goacross the stream or go across
the ocean, here's what 100% ofthis comes from 650 plus
interviews in 72 countries frombelievers in persecution
teaching us how to be sheepamong wolves and knowing that
Jesus said yes, and you're goingto be arrested and they're
(41:51):
going to do terrible things toyou.
You don't have access to Caesarand Pilate, so through your
persecution, I'm sending you asa witness up the ladder, all the
way up the ladder.
And Paul defers they're goingto kill him in a local level and
he deferred to Rome and he gotto witness all the way to Rome.
(42:13):
I watched somebody do that lastweek overseas.
He's not going to make it out,but by the time he ends his race
, he is going to be a witness tohis family, to his local
community, to the local mosqueand they're going to take him
out.
But he learned from the ApostlePaul to defer to Rome so that
he could witness on that ship,on that journey, take other
(42:35):
people with him.
But here he is, facing the endof his journey and he is saying
I can't do this by myself.
Clint (42:44):
Our response to that?
To hearing that story of thatthat's happening right now, our
response cannot be pity.
Our response has to be absolutecelebration and praise to God
that that is happening in thekingdom for his church.
Praise God, that's incredible.
Nick, I can't thank you enoughfor taking time to do this and
to share your story with us andjust to be able to communicate
(43:06):
the incredible things thatyou've seen God at work, doing
just around the world in thepersecuted church.
Would you mind just praying,pray for the church, even to
help us understand how we canpray for the church, and there's
not a persecuted church or ablessed church, the church of
Jesus Christ around the world,to see his kingdom come and his
will being done.
Would you mind praying for us,christ around?
Nik (43:28):
the world to see his kingdom come and his will being
done.
Would you mind praying for us?
Lord Jesus, you know mynegative reaction when somebody
went after my bride and how youtaught me and somewhat crushed
me when you reminded me that I'dbeen going after your bride for
a long time.
(43:48):
And, father, I, neither of us,want to be heard to be critical
of your bride.
We just want her to claim herbridegroom, we just want her to
stand up and learn to crawl,learn to walk and learn to run
and learn to crawl, learn towalk and learn to run, and we
(44:14):
just want to free her from thefinancial blessings that she has
and the walls that seeminglycontain her.
Father, the things that areconsuming the church these days
in America often do not consumeyou.
Lord, let us put our fingers onthe pulse of the Holy Spirit and
(44:38):
just determine that we willopen the doors to our home and
have our neighbors in for mealsand that we'll get ourselves
invited to our internationalfamily of God, our international
laws, people.
That is just so easy to do andthat, lord, we will dedicate not
just to ourselves, but when wehold that newest of infant, even
(45:03):
while still in the mother'swomb.
We will give, not loan, thatchild to you.
Lord Jesus, forgive us forthinking that we own anything,
but allow us to hear again thebillions of people that are
(45:27):
crying out in their lostnessbecause they don't want their
eternity to be like their lifeand present active tense.
Lord Jesus, thank you for mybrother, thank you for Clint for
his ministry, and we pray thatwe who oftentimes feel like
(45:50):
we're telling truth, that wewill walk humbly ourselves in
the sight of God, and we canonly do that through Jesus.
We love you, lord.
You're worth everything that wehave and everything that we are
.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Dustin (46:12):
Amen.
Thank you for listening toUnreached.
Our sincere desire is that whatyou've heard today will cause
you to see the mission of Goddifferently and your role in it
more clearly.
If this adds value for you andwe hope it does would you please
rate and review the podcastwherever you listen.
Also, share with your family,your friends, your church, your
life group, small group, d group, wherever you do life, and if
(46:34):
you want to connect with us,find us on Instagram at
unreachedpodcast, or email us atunreachedpodcast at gmailcom.
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