Truth or Dare w. Tommy Daley

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Join Basile and Black Shag's Tommy Daley for his first ever podcast!  Discover Tommy's inspiring journey from glam rocker and record intern to Nashville entrepreneur and leader in vintage fashion. Listen as he shares tales from the '90s Sunset Strip music scene, the famed Melrose Avenue, his rise at the iconic Capitol Records and the road to redemption.

Go check out all that is Black Shag Vintage. And make sure you follow their magnetic Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.

When in Nashville, Black Shag is a must-visit destination. The flagship store is housed in historic fire station no. 18 at 1220 Gallatin Ave in East Nashville. The new location can be found in Marathon Village. 

Producer's Note: Special special thanks to Kyle Ross for his wizardry on summed stems. GTS. (Google that shit.) Holding Tommy to his promise to record a part two so we can hear the behind-the-scenes of the shop's success and perhaps some sordid styling stories. JB

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Follow, rate and share if you dig the podcast. Follow Basile's antics on Instagram, and check out the website for credentials and more.

In the meantime, take care of one another.

Episode Transcript

Basile (00:18):
Welcome to Unrehearsed.
I'm your host, Joanna Basile,and today's guest is the
incomparable Tommy Daley, theowner of Black Shag Vintage.
What else, Tommy?

Tommy Daley (00:35):
I don't know, in general just good human, I guess
.

Basile (00:37):
Good human advocate for others.

Tommy Daley (00:41):
Yeah, I'm an advocate for others.
For sure, I love others.
You are.
You do some good stuff for thecommunity and the for others.

Basile (00:45):
For sure I love others you are.
You do some good stuff for thecommunity and the folks that
work for you.
I just try to be a good person.
Well, that's the end of thepodcast, Thank you.

Tommy Daley (00:54):
It was lovely.

Basile (00:56):
We've had to restart a couple times.
I had a technical difficultyand, yeah, you said I was
nervous.
You were like staring at me,and then I think I'm having a
hot flash.

Tommy Daley (01:06):
Well, we're just having a conversation here,
right?
That's what this is about"Unrehearsed.
Look at that in sync.
How about that?

Basile (01:14):
So tell us more.

Tommy Daley (01:17):
Well, do you just fire some questions at me, and I
think that's the best way to go.

Basile (01:20):
Well, I've left out the musician part.
Why don't we start there?

Tommy Daley (01:24):
The musician part.
Well, I've always been amusician.
I mean, do you want me to tella little bit of my backstory?
Absolutely Well, I was born inthe 60s, I was a kid in the 70s,
I was a teenager in the 80s, Iwas a young man in the 90s and
then I became a man at the endof the 90s into the 2000s.
I've always grew up in Buffalo,new York, always been a

(01:47):
musician.
He loved Kiss and rock and rolland became a guitar player and
did all that stuff.
When I turned 21, I moved to LA.
To be a rock star Was towardsthe end of the whole Sunset
Strip thing.
You know a lot of the glammetal and the Roxy, the whiskey

(02:08):
and the rainbow and all thatstuff in the very early 90s.
As one does yeah, that's whatpeople did and it was phenomenal
as a 21-year-old kid in LosAngeles, in Hollywood, just that
was my education, that was mycollege.

Basile (02:25):
I was so glad I wasn't there for that, because I'd
probably be dead.

Tommy Daley (02:30):
Yeah, I mean, well, when you're young and resilient
, none of that, you don't thinkabout that stuff.
You just go in the moment andit's you know.
You're just searching for thenext fun thing to do.
And I had a band, put the bandtogether and played the Whiskey
and the Roxy and the Troubadour.

Basile (02:45):
What was the name of that band?

Tommy Daley (02:47):
It was a band called Truth or Dare.
It was called Truth or Dare andthen, like six months after we
started the band, madonna cameout with her movie called Truth
or Dare.
See, it was a good name.
It was a good name but thatkind of deflated it.
Plus, things were changing inthe world of music.
Then you know bands like Jane'sAddiction and Red Hot Chili

(03:13):
Peppers and Tool and RageAgainst the Machine.
All these bands were bubblingup so it was kind of like
pushing away all the.
You know the Skid Rose and theWarrants and Motley Crue's.
It was making it harder.
Everyone says grunge killedrock, but it wasn't just quickly
.

Basile (03:33):
It was.
It was gradual, but most peopledidn't see it that way.

Tommy Daley (03:36):
Yeah, it was over like five years and, you know,
and I loved all of it.
I loved Alice in Chains, I loveSoundgarden, I love Metallica,
I love Megadeth.
You know, I didn't see it.
As you know, we can look backand see it now.
Everyone thinks grunge killedit.
I mean, I guess it did, but itwas a slow death and I just rode

(03:58):
along with it.
And then, you know, thingschanged and then I stumbled into
the record business.
You know, I stumbled into aninternship at Capitol Records.

Basile (04:07):
So did you seek it out, or was it just an opportunity
that formed and you took it?

Tommy Daley (04:14):
It didn't really form.
I was working at a retail placeon Melrose Avenue, which was
the great street at the time.
It was just like awesome.

Basile (04:23):
I used to travel to LA just to get my hair cut and go
shopping.

Tommy Daley (04:27):
Yeah, it was the best thing.
It was so much going on there.
Just rock stars, movie stars,every day and just cool stores.

Basile (04:35):
Well, let me ask you this Is that where you got the
idea for the vintage store?

Tommy Daley (04:40):
It informed where I am now for sure.
Oh yeah, a lot.
You know, when I was working ata retail place, you know, I
mean it was like a store.
I worked at Mellor's and likeMick Jagger would come in and
buy kids' books, you know, andI'd have to ring him up at the
register.
It was just like every daythere was crazy shit like that
happening all the time and itwas cool.

(05:05):
And then how I got into therecord business, the, the
manager of the shop I wasworking at, which was a place
called the soap plant and theystill exist, but on a different
street now um, the manager camein with like a bag of cds saying
, hey, I got all these free cdsfrom capital records.
I was, I was interning there.
I'm like I want some free cds.
So she said, call this guy.
So I I called the guy and hesaid, yeah, come on up.

(05:27):
So I went up to the CapitolTower, the big round tower on
Hollywood and Vine on the eighthfloor looking at the Hollywood
sign, such an iconic building.
And you know I wasn't going tocollege or anything.
Usually when you have aninternship you have to go to
college.
I just walked in there.
He was cool.
You know I had long hair.
He's like yeah, man, do youwant to call some radio stations
?
So I started calling.
He gave me a call sheet withcollege radio stations.

(05:49):
So call these college radiostations and talk about the
Beastie Boys, see where they're,you know if they can play them
more.

Basile (05:56):
So you were basically working the Beastie Boys records
right away for free.

Tommy Daley (06:00):
Without any training or whatsoever and it
was great and I was like this isawesome.
And sure enough, he opened upthe CD cabinet at the end of the
day and gave me a bag of CDs.
I'm like this is the greatestthing in the world.

Basile (06:11):
Do you remember that that was one of the perks of
being in the music business backin the day?
Was you got all this free swag,which included just boxes and
boxes and boxes of CDs?

Tommy Daley (06:22):
Yeah, I mean it was the greatest thing.
I mean you couldn't do better,as, being a musician and loving
music, you know, getting a boxof free CDs because nobody you
know you can't afford, becausethis was right at the beginning
of CDs too.
Like CDs were blown up, I meanI would go to Tower Records and
I would buy like one CD.

Basile (06:40):
Did you ever join the record clubs?

Tommy Daley (06:43):
I was in the record clubs for vinyl in the 80s.
But yeah, when I moved to LA Iwas living on a you know
Shoestring budget, shoestringbudget man.
It was like you know.

Basile (06:53):
Where did you live?
Which area did you live?

Tommy Daley (06:56):
I lived in a studio apartment with four dudes my
band on Wilcox and HollywoodBoulevard.

Basile (07:03):
Okay.

Tommy Daley (07:06):
It was crazy the way that we lived and the
drummer he was the first one tomove there and he brought his
king-size waterbed.
So there was a king-sizewaterbed in this studio
apartment and the three of usand him had to share this room,
but the waterbed basically tookup the whole room.

Basile (07:27):
I don't even want to know.
I just was just shaking my headand like closing my eyes tight,
like I don't want to hear.
I don't want to know.

Tommy Daley (07:33):
We all had those little folding cushions that
were like futons.

Basile (07:38):
What happened when you brought chicks home?

Tommy Daley (07:41):
It happened, it just happened.
Sometimes we would like giveeach other privacy and space,
and it happened, it justhappened.
Sometimes, shaking my head, wewould like give each other
Privacy, privacy and space.
You know or not, you know itwas a wild time back in the
early 90s, I know, but anyway.
So that's where I lived andthen, you know, that's where my

(08:04):
whole life changed.
That's where I learned abouteverything.
You know, I came from Buffalo, asmall town in Buffalo called
Tonawanda, and just jumping intothe Hollywood scene and seeing
you know flamboyant gay peoplefor the first time, seeing you

(08:27):
know lesbians and Mexicans andjust this whole different slice
of life, you're just exposed toall these things that I wasn't
exposed to as a young person andI loved it.
I just loved being around allthese people and I was a sponge,
I was soaking up every culturalthing I could and it was just
so fun, you know.
And then I started interning atthis record company, capital

(08:48):
Records, and I did that for ayear and I kept just building
myself up and doing it and doingit and doing it, to the point
where they're calling me at myjob at retail Like asking me hey
, what's going on with this bandand this show and all this
stuff to the point where theyhad to hire me.

(09:08):
They were forced to hire me.

Basile (09:10):
I was going to say.
At what point did you say likeman, I'm at work.
If you want this information,you're going to have to hire me.

Tommy Daley (09:16):
Yeah, give me a job , start paying me.
So that eventually happened,you know, because I had to.
I actually got fired from oneof the retail jobs oh, and this
is where the vintage thing willcome in too because I was at
this retail place called theSoap Plant and then I got fired
from that for well.
I went down to Tijuana to seePorno for Pyros and I couldn't

(09:38):
get anyone to cover me.

Basile (09:40):
Were you at those shows?

Tommy Daley (09:41):
Yes, those very first shows of Porno for Pyros.
So I got fired from them.
They didn't want to fire me andthen they eventually hired me
back as part-time because I wassuch a good employee and a good
vibe.
Do you have photos of

Basile (09:53):
yourself from this era?
Yeah, I do.
I think we need to see thatthere's something.
I think we need to see those.

Tommy Daley (10:01):
I was the guy with the super long blonde hair.
I think we need to see those.
I was the guy with the superlong blonde hair.
I would wear just a vest andskinny jeans with snakeskin
cowboy boots tucked into themand you know that whole thing.
Mm-hmm, it was fun, but anyway.
So they hired me back and thenI started working at JetRag, a
vintage clothing store.
I remember it People thatworked at Soap Plant, so plant

(10:23):
would like go back and forthbetween vintage clothes and
retail stuff.
So then I was working there andthen they the same thing
happened.
I got fired from that becausecapital was like, hey, we need
you to go to San Francisco forthis convention, this radio
convention, and I couldn't getanyone to cover, so I just, I

(10:45):
just like I have to go to this,they're flying me there.
So I got fired and theyeventually were forced to hire
me.
And then I was there for 13years and went all the way up to
VP of rock promotion at CapitolRecords like that.

Basile (11:01):
How many years did that take?

Tommy Daley (11:02):
well, like I said, I was 10 years.

Basile (11:05):
Oh, it took 10 years for you to get the VP.

Tommy Daley (11:08):
Well, yeah, it's like all of a sudden you just
keep jumping up, you know.
Associate director.

Basile (11:13):
In my mind the story that you just told.
It happened in a year, 10 years.

Tommy Daley (11:21):
Well, then dhow t I dhow mean I stayed in it 10
years.
I mean I rose pretty quickly,you know.
Well, I mean I stayed in it 10years.
I mean I rose pretty quickly,you know.
And then they sent me to NewYork for New York experience and

(11:41):
then I came back and took overthe whole rock position after my
boss left.
You know that's how it works inthe record business you get a
job you wait for.
You know we had the Beatles,the Beach Boys and worked a
bunch of Paul McCartney recordsand Beastie Boys, all the
Radiohead records.
You know I did heavy metalrecords Wasp, iron Maiden I got
to work those bands, I got towork Coldplay and Foo Fighters.
Just it was a wild ride.

(12:01):
That was a good time in music.
It was the best time in musicbecause every band was, you know
, if they were good and theymade it.
You know they were selling amillion to three million records
, you know, and it was just wildand fun.

Basile (12:17):
And then how?

Tommy Daley (12:17):
did that end?
Well, I ended up switching andgoing over to Geffen Records
eventually, because you can onlygo so far at one company.
And then I took a two-yearcontract at Geffen Records when
they relaunched that and thatwas a whole different thing,
because that was the recordbusiness.
This was like the early 2000s.
Everything started changing andNapster came out and kind of

(12:42):
everyone was freaked out aboutthat.

Basile (12:43):
That's when I left Chicago.
I was kind of embedded in that.
I worked at Universal at onepoint and then I worked for Jeff
McCluskey at one point.

Tommy Daley (12:52):
Yeah, we used to hire Jeff McCluskey.
I know the independent promoter.

Basile (12:56):
Yeah, the biggest independent promoter in the
country.

Tommy Daley (13:01):
Yeah, he was a real character.

Basile (13:03):
Still is Lovely man.
I mean, I had great experienceswith him.
I had really bizarreexperiences in the office, but
yeah, that's for another time.
But yeah, I think I might'veworked some Geffen projects when
I was at Universal.

Tommy Daley (13:18):
Probably.
I mean you know, yeah, I meanit was Universal, so I mean we
were the biggest company, sowe'd hire everybody.
Your listeners probably don'teven know what we're talking
about, but it's independentpromoters, third party, that
you'd hire to promote yourrecords at radio stations so
they could do the unscrupulousstuff and you wouldn't have to

(13:42):
do the—.

Basile (13:42):
Paola.

Tommy Daley (13:43):
Paola yeah.

Basile (13:44):
When your boss is in Mansion on the Hill?
Is that the book and Hitman?

Tommy Daley (13:51):
Yeah, Hitman was one of the books about
independent promoters.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah.

Basile (13:55):
Blowin' hookers.

Tommy Daley (13:57):
They would take care of the blowin' hookers.

Basile (13:58):
Just a disclaimer.
I had nothing to do with theblowin' hookers part, but I wish
I could say the same.
I definitely lured in some ofthe radio folks, so my friends
were radio.

Tommy Daley (14:11):
It was all about relationships and just you know
All about relationships.

Basile (14:16):
One of the things that Jeff did that was brilliant was
if there was an industry personwho was looking for work, he
helped them find work and peoplealways remember you if he
helped them find work and peoplealways remember you if you help
them find work.

Tommy Daley (14:31):
Yeah, and he was an outlier too, because he was in
Chicago, which was you know.
All the record companies werein New York and LA.

Basile (14:41):
So he was the Midwest guy that had everything covered.
You know, yeah, chicago thatwas the hub for him.

Tommy Daley (14:48):
And our offices were literally in a house.

Basile (14:50):
I've been to those offices.
Yeah, we all had.
We basically had boom boxes onour desks and everything was
cassette.
It was funny, I shared a deskwith a vp and I was one of the
associates in new business andconsulting.

Tommy Daley (15:04):
One of the things we did was find artists for
festivals, like radio-sponsoredfestivals, so we would yeah, you
would have to interact withpeople like me at the label, and
then we'd go to management andyou'd want to book the Foo
Fighters for your radio festival.
Then you know, you'd have topay them.
You know, although it would bea discount, you'd have to

(15:27):
negotiate all that stuff.
But, there was budgets becausethese radio festivals were
drawing 100,000 people.

Basile (15:34):
Yeah.

Tommy Daley (15:35):
It was part of the deal.

Basile (15:36):
I had the key to the city, we had the key to the city
.
If you worked for Jeff inChicago, it was a wild time.

Tommy Daley (15:44):
Yeah, the record business was fun.
It was like literally time.
Yeah, the record business wasfun.
It was like literally a dreamjob making tons of money.
Huge expense accounts yeah, Imean my expense account, I think
, was $40,000 a year.
Salacious things happening Wellat the end of the day, when
you're in radio promotion,you're ultimately an entertainer
.
You have to, you know,entertain people and build

(16:07):
relationships, you know.
So take them to shows, whateverstrip bars, whatever they
wanted to do you'd have to do itRestaurants, it was just a fun
time.
You know, a lot of that stuffdoesn't exist anymore.
It's very strict and calculatednow and everyone's afraid of

(16:28):
doing the wrong thing.
So it was just a wild time andthere was really no rules.

Basile (16:33):
You can get away with a lot financially and back then
Data, but it wasn't.
Everything wasn't necessarilydata-driven, and that was before
, like you said, before thedigital space came into play.

Tommy Daley (16:52):
Well before the digital space came into play, it
was all.
I mean, it was about sales.
It was about SoundScan andselling records and shipping
units.
How many.
They could tell how many unitsthey shipped, and you know a lot
of times they would ship.
You know 100, how many.
They could tell how many unitsthey shipped, and you know a lot
of times they would ship.
You know 100,000 CDs but 30 ofthose would be they wouldn't
charge somebody for them.
So it was like it was all kindof it was very murky in the

(17:14):
record business and it still is,I'm sure.

Basile (17:16):
Well, and it was a true industry, because you're talking
about moving units, so, meaningindustry, there was moving
product involved, so there wasshipping and trucking even
involved, there was logisticsand manufacturing and all the

(17:36):
way through to that radiopromoter.

Tommy Daley (17:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Basically we gave them freemusic and my job was to get them
to play that new music that wegive them for free.
Play it as much as possible andmake a hit.

Basile (17:54):
I did the same when I was at River North, Remember.
They sent me down to Tennesseeand I called from here like
local stations asking for themto play.
It was basically just posing asa listener.

Tommy Daley (18:10):
Yeah, I mean you could do that.
I mean, you know, obviously,when you're at a major label,
you have an advantage becausethey want to talk to you,
because you can provide themwith stuff that they need.
You know, smaller labels andindependent artists, that's
always a struggle.
Indeed, you know, smallerlabels and independent artists,
that's always a struggle.
That's why the radio I meanradio right now doesn't even
matter.
I don't listen to radio anymore.

(18:32):
I don't know, I do.
I mean, we're old school, youknow.
But the new generation of musicfans don't listen to radio.
They listen to Spotify, youknow, or Apple Music.
So they don't know, they don'teven realize what the impact of
radio was.
Radio was king back then,absolutely, and MTV.

(18:53):
If you had a hit on radio andMTV, you were going to sell a
million records.

Basile (18:58):
Did video kill the radio star?

Tommy Daley (19:01):
No, it didn't.
It made them bigger, I meanthrough the 90s, because of the
visual aspect.
It just now you could seeeverybody.
I mean I remember watching MTVlaunch.
It was a big deal.
Oh yeah, when I was a kid 1980,what?
Or 1980, right, it launched andyou know I was glued to it all

(19:21):
through the 80s, you know.
Run home from school and watchit.

Basile (19:23):
There was music television in the sense that
there was like Soul Train thatwould feature artists, and I
mention that because that was ahuge part of my childhood.
I used to watch it everySaturday, with my grandmother,
actually, and I.
And then there was AmericanBandstand.
Then there was something when Iwas in high school that was
from the East Coast.

(19:44):
I can't remember what it wascalled, but man, it was bad.

Tommy Daley (19:48):
There was a bunch of shows like that, a bunch of
regional dance and music shows.
Yeah, mtv was different becauseit was like made videos.
It was just like it was a radiostation for your TV.
It was like a mini moviebringing your artists to life,
and it was the most excitingthing to ever happen.
It revolutionized the recordbusiness.

Basile (20:05):
It was rock and roll and it was sexy, and now it was
like in our living room.

Tommy Daley (20:10):
Yeah, now you can see what you know Pat Benatar's
band looked like.

Basile (20:17):
I keep thinking in my mind Billy Idol, because I'm
reading his memoir now and I'mabout to go into the part where
he's talking about making themusic videos.
You know, and making of BillyIdol was such his look was such
a big part of it, right, Well,when MTV came on it, you know it
wasn't just about the music.

Tommy Daley (20:37):
It's like now you got to look good, and so it kind
of elevated the artistry ofmusic as a whole.
I think you know Everyoneplayed the game.
I mean every artist jumped onit and like, oh what, I can sell
three million records insteadof one million with.

Basile (20:57):
But it wasn't always inclusive either.

Tommy Daley (21:01):
I know that was an issue.
They were notorious for keepingblack artists off of MTV until
Michael Jackson.
They were forced to playMichael Jackson.

Basile (21:09):
Then there was Yo MTV Raps.

Tommy Daley (21:11):
Yeah, that was starting in the late 80s, early
90s.
Yeah.

Basile (21:15):
Yeah, and there was also Headbangers Ball.

Tommy Daley (21:19):
Yeah, which was kind of a toss-away show, you
know.

Basile (21:26):
Yeah, I mean, they evolved T they evolved toss away
.

Tommy Daley (21:27):
I watched it every on the weekend.
Oh, I know it was that Iwatched it religiously that lawn
was on there and ricky, rickyrackman oh, I know, I, I know
everything about it.

Basile (21:38):
I watched it all the time it's just so funny when
you're an adult and you interactwith these folks now in a
friendly way and it makes melaugh because I was 16, rode my
bike to Tammy's house and we'dhave sleepovers and watch
Headbangers Ball.

Tommy Daley (21:53):
It would be midnight on Saturday night.

Basile (21:55):
Yeah, every weekend.

Tommy Daley (21:59):
Yeah, it was great.

Basile (22:00):
Such a huge part of our culture, at least mine.
You better quit fucking withthat coffee cup.

Tommy Daley (22:07):
I'm almost done.
It's matcha.

Basile (22:09):
Oh, it's matcha.
Is it part of your morningroutine?

Tommy Daley (22:12):
Yes.

Basile (22:13):
Okay, so before we get into that, because you said
something earlier about thedifferent decades and where you
were at as a person or as a man,and you said something about
you became a man at that point.
But I want to get back to that.
I'm not there quite yet.

(22:33):
So you just got out of themusic I know because you're
still in it you switched toGeffen, and then what happened?

Tommy Daley (22:42):
Well, I worked for Geffen for two years in Santa
Monica and it just stopped beingas fun as it used to be because
it was all.
The rules had changed, Musichad changed, Everyone was on
edge.
You couldn't do all the thingsyou could do before and the
company I was working for youknow, Jimmy Iovine was still

(23:02):
running.
You know Interscope andeverything, and my boss worked
for him and Geffen, we workedfor them.
So it just got really strictand your opinion didn't matter.

Basile (23:15):
But Interscope was still forward thinking.

Tommy Daley (23:18):
They were still doing a lot of A&R Musically,
but just in terms of theiremployees.
And, look, I was paid reallywell and it was a very
prestigious job, but it justsucked the soul right out of me
and the fun disappeared and itwas just like, oh, they don't
give a shit about what I thinkor what I do at all, what I

(23:47):
think or what I do at all.
And you know, I startedbecoming reacquainted with my
creative side and wanted toexplore that more.
So that's when I startedlooking at Nashville, actually,
and I started noticing thatcountry was doing something
different and people were alittle bit more passionate.
I was watching all these hugecountry stars like Keith Urban,
everybody blow up.
So then I was like, oh, maybeI'll get back into guitar

(24:08):
playing.
And that's what I did.
I started playing guitar again.
I took some sideman gigs andsome rock bands and learned how
to write songs and becameinterested in the Nashville way
of writing songs and did acouple of reconnaissance
missions to Nashville just tocheck it out.
And you know, and that's when Igot sober at the end of my

(24:30):
Geffen thing because I became anyou know, alcoholic and a drug
addict thanks to the recordbusiness those last two years.

Basile (24:41):
Yeah, that's why I got out of it, but then it followed
me.

Tommy Daley (24:44):
It followed me.
I got sober in LA, stopped andyou know that last year of being
in the record business I was afull-blown alcoholic.

Basile (24:53):
Did you go to treatment or did you just go to meetings
and stuff?

Tommy Daley (24:57):
I used Alcoholics Anonymous and I just jumped into
that.
For a year I got sober in LA.
For a year I would go to thelog cabin in Beverly Hills.

Basile (25:07):
The log cabin.

Tommy Daley (25:08):
Every morning at 730 and then I would go hike
Runyon Canyon and it was verydifficult.
I saw someone get punched outat the log cabin.
Yeah, I mean it was wild.
It was wild.
But yeah, I mean I just, youknow, I didn't even realize I
had a problem until, you know,until I had a problem.

(25:29):
And then I was like, oh, wait aminute, I really can't stop
doing this, I can't stopdrinking and I can't stop doing
drugs once I start.

Basile (25:37):
So who was the person that inspired you, or what
inspired you, to get sober?

Tommy Daley (25:43):
Yeah, Well, it was just losing a weekend and you
know, waking up and likethinking I can't do this no
longer.
You know I can't do it anymore.
I just decided in that moment,in a sense of certainty, when I
lost a whole day and I didn'teven realize.

Basile (25:59):
But how did you know?
Like I had no idea what AA was,it just seemed like such a full
concept.

Tommy Daley (26:04):
Well, I flirted with it because my circle of
friends were, you know, I wasstarting to let them down a lot
and disappear and missing workand you know, just having all
this anxiety and just I waspowerless, over drugs and
alcohol, I couldn't stop, youknow.
But I was also ahigh-functioning executive so I

(26:25):
could work all week and then gobinge on the weekends.

Basile (26:30):
And the music business sometimes allowed for that
lifestyle.
It did, it encouraged it, whichmade it easier and harder to
stop.

Tommy Daley (26:40):
Yeah, and money wasn't an issue and it was just
as long as you showed up and didyour job.
No one's going to get mad atyou for going out and drinking
and staying up all night, butthat's what I mean.
Things started changing andthen I just it was runaway.
I couldn't stop, you know, andso I just had a binge weekend,

(27:00):
lost a whole day.
I was like I thought it wasSaturday and it was Sunday.
It was just, you know, takingsomebody home that I met on
Thursday, I just it was.
I didn't know what was going on.
So then I just stopped myselfand in a moment of clarity I
just decided okay, I'm going tostop, I'm going to go to AA.
So I called the guy that I knewthat was in AA and he said no,

(27:24):
because he was disappointed inme, because I had blew him off,
or something like that.
And then he called back andsaid all right, I want to take
you there.
So then they took me to AA andI just listened.
Basically, they just said justlisten, and that's all I did.
I would go every day and justlisten, and I knew I needed help

(27:45):
.
I accepted that fact and I justdid what they told me to do,
got a sponsor and did the workand got sober.
I mean, it wasn't easy and Inever faltered.
And it's been 18 years sincethen.
I never faltered.
And it's been 18 years sincethen.
They said don't make any bigchanges for a year.

(28:06):
So I got sober for a year andthen I sold my house and moved
to Nashville to start a newcreative life and renew my
creative side and learn how tosong, write and learn how to
play guitar and become a hiredgun and do that whole thing.
And that's what got me here andI moved here and I didn't know

(28:29):
anybody.
I just moved here, rented ahouse and started going out and
around and figuring it out.

Basile (28:34):
What did sobriety look like in Nashville for you at
that time?

Tommy Daley (28:40):
Well, it's completely different than Los
Angeles sobriety.
So I mean, I tried to stay inthat world but it was a lot
different.
It is different.
It's a lot different and thisis definitely a drinking town.
You know, it seemed like peopledidn't understand, at least in
the circles I was roaming.
You know, when you're trying tobe a songwriter and a musician,

(29:04):
you're going to hang out atbars.
So I had to go to bars and youknow songwriter nights and you
know where everyone's drinkingand it's like, hey, let's get a
drink, let's have a beer, comeon now.

Basile (29:18):
I had people tell me here I don't trust anyone that
doesn't drink.

Tommy Daley (29:22):
Yeah, I've had that happen before.
Yeah, I mean, that's just aridiculous statement and doesn't
make any sense and showsignorance on someone's part.

Basile (29:31):
Well, I also noticed the people that vocalize things
like that are usually the onesthat are curious about what it's
like to be sober, about whatit's like to be sober Anyone
that's giving me shit aboutbeing sober whether it's someone
after a Motley Crue show in LAor someone at a business dinner
in Nashville anyone that's beengiving me shit I can kind of

(29:53):
tell that they should probablystop doing whatever they're
doing.

Tommy Daley (29:59):
Yeah, usually when someone says something as
ignorant as I don't trust anyonewho doesn't drink.
You know that's because someonetold them that or they saw it
in a movie or a TV show orsomething like that, and you
know that's a sign to just finda new friend.
You know it's like you knowWell, it's hard to when it's

(30:20):
your boss.
Or a hit songwriter that youwant to get to know and things
like that.
But yeah, you know, you justhave to navigate that stuff.
It's part of the deal, you know.
It tests your resolve and youknow.

Basile (30:33):
At the time it freaked me out.
Now I would just laugh insomeone's face and be like hey,
if you ever want to go to ameeting, keep coming back, right
?
No, I agree with you that it'sdifferent here than it was in
Los Angeles.
I always say you could throw anickel and hit a meeting in LA,
and at dinners someone wouldoffer you something and my

(30:57):
response would be like no, Idon't drink.
And then they're like oh, areyou sober?
Yeah, oh well, so is mygirlfriend anyway, or so was my
mom.
Hey, I am too.
It was so easy.
It was kind of like hey, I'msober was the equivalent of pass

(31:18):
assault or you know whatever.
At dinner it didn't matter.

Tommy Daley (31:22):
Yeah, I find that you know, the farther down the
road I get in life, you know, Idon't, that stuff doesn't bother
me and it doesn't encounter me.
You know, you kind of gravitatetowards people.
You know, if you're, if you'regoing to go downtown and hang
out at Broadway at 230 in themorning, you know, yeah, you're
going to encounter people likethat, but that's not what I'm
interested in right now.
So I don't really.

(31:43):
I mean my sobriety is I forgetthat I'm sober a lot of times,
honestly, like it's just part ofwho I am now.
It just is.
Yeah, it's just I know whatwill happen.
I don't, you know, I haven'tbeen hungover in 18 years, which
is phenomenal.
You know I don't have any.
I don't wake up with shame orguilt, you know, never.

(32:05):
I mean no, not really.
I try to live a life of rigor.

Basile (32:10):
No, I think right when I'm self-examining, sometimes I
do experience shame and guilt.

Tommy Daley (32:16):
I mean, you know, for other reasons, yeah, Not
because I blacked out and didsomething stupid or said
something ridiculous.
Yeah, I mean, life still hasits challenges, you know, it's
just now, when you know someonethrows a wrench in your life.
I've got better tools to dealwith it than going and drinking

(32:42):
you know, Because that neverreally works anyways.

Basile (32:45):
No, and I think it's human to say, oh, I'd love to
have a drink to soften this, butin my case it would just make
things messier.

Tommy Daley (32:59):
Yeah, it does, and sometimes it takes people a long
time to figure that out.
And you know, I'm glad Ifigured it out and my experience
getting sober is good.
You know, I don't even thinkabout it anymore.
I mean, I don't, I'm notobsessed to drink and the idea
of drinking just repulses me.
It's like I don't want thatfeeling.

(33:21):
You know, because I'm sofocused on my life right now and
my happiness that that wouldjust get in the way.
It just gets in the way, rightFor me.

Basile (33:35):
It is a difficult road to go through life completely
aware and awake.
There is no numbing out, soit's challenging, but it makes
for a better experience overall.

Tommy Daley (33:54):
Yeah, there's no hiding.
You can't run away fromproblems.
You have to deal with problemshead on and that's what being
sober this long gives me.
I can handle any situation thatcomes up in front of me.
You know, not always perfectlyand I don't know everything, and
you know, but I know how tobreak something down and fix it.

(34:17):
You know it doesn't always workand it's not easy, but I can.

Basile (34:24):
Yeah, I think the act of surrender, not always having
expectations, not taking thingspersonally, those are things
that I may have learned, but Iprobably learned that faster
being in 12-step.

Tommy Daley (34:41):
Well, yeah, 12-step , well, yeah, 12-step I mean
there's lots of 12-step isincorporated into a lot of
different philosophies of life.
You know, because it works.
It's just almost common sense,you know.

Basile (34:56):
Right, and a lot of philosophies.
The one that I've studied,there's many parallels.
The one that I've studied,there's many parallels and I
think I, just I, you don'tgraduate from being sober and
you don't, but you do grow, andI've moved away from some things

(35:17):
and just yeah, I continue to.
I guess, learn tools, new tools, from other things too besides
12-step.

Tommy Daley (35:29):
Well, it's growth.
I mean, growth is the mostimportant thing we as humans can
do.
Grow or die.
Yeah, grow or die.
Never stop learning.
And you know, every time Ilearn something new, it reminds
me that I don't know shit.
You know, you're never going toknow everything.

(35:50):
You know and you're alwaysgoing to learn something new.
And I love that about life.
You know, I crave it.
I'm thirsty for knowledge abouteverything you know.

Basile (36:01):
Yeah, no, you're an interesting guy and you're
running basically the hottestvintage store here in Nashville.
It's a brand.
I mean, it's not just a shop,it's a brand and you have a huge
online presence.

Tommy Daley (36:19):
Yeah Well, yeah, my business Black Shack Vintage is
.
You know it's a labor of loveand it.
You know I didn't plan to dothis.
You know I didn't plan to be asmall business owner in, you
know, in the used apparel market.
But it's been eight years nowand thank you for saying that.

(36:40):
You know, I mean, I don'talways see it like that.
I see it, as you know,constantly trying to grow and
get better, you know.

Basile (36:47):
You know, I see it as a brand, because I've said let's
do this, let's promote this,let's I see Black Shack as this
entity.

Tommy Daley (36:59):
Yeah, it has developed into a brand.
I mean, I acknowledge that, youknow, and I feel good about it.
You know, I mean we do a thing.
We do a thing that a lot ofother stores don't, and you know
, and it comes down to, I guess,rapport and just, you know,

(37:22):
having a good staff and havingcool people around and just
creating a remarkable shoppingexperience.
That's what it is, you know.

Basile (37:33):
Well, anything that you're marketing, it's in the
experience.
You want to give the consumeran experience, one that they'll
remember, one that they'll comeback for, and one that they can
identify with your brand.
It's just cool.

Tommy Daley (37:49):
I just want people to come in and be like, oh my
God, this is the coolest thingever.
I used to have that t-shirtwhen I was a kid.
You know Everyone's just cool.
I just want people to come inand be like, oh my God, this is
the coolest thing ever.
I used to have that T-shirtwhen I was a kid.
You know everyone's so coolthere.
You know it's great.
You know, I just want to createthis unique shopping experience
that people are going to wantto tell all their friends about,
you know.

Basile (38:05):
And how did you start it ?
Because you skipped over that.
How did it start?
Well, I was doing thesongwriting thing and then I
realized that you say that youwere doing that, but we've
recently had conversations whereyou said you went to workshops
and you actually learned aboutsongwriting itself before you

(38:26):
were songwriting.

Tommy Daley (38:27):
Yeah, when I moved to Nashville I jumped into
songwriting like I do withanything, I go headfirst and I
just go for it.
So I started doing all thesongwriting workshops, Tin Pan
South and all that stuff, andgoing to NSAI events and just
going to, you know, writersrounds, and I just started doing

(38:47):
that co-writing with everywriter I could, pitching to
publishers, doing all that stuff, learning the craft of
songwriting, which in and ofitself is a wonderful thing and
that's a skill that never leavesyou, like how to write a song,
did you have any home runs?

(39:07):
No, I had some small victorieswith some publishers, with some
publishers taking my songs, youknow, and seeing the potential.
But you know, after a while,after about a year of doing it,
I realized like I don't thinkthis is who I want to be.
I realized I didn't want to bethat songwriter guy always
hustling for a cut, you know.

Basile (39:28):
And it seems oversaturated here.

Tommy Daley (39:31):
It does.
It just didn't feel like it wasme.
I was writing things for radioand that's not the.
I know how to write a song.

(39:51):
Like I'm going to switch gearsand go back to my roots, which
was the first thing you know.
When I was 12 years old Istarted playing guitar.
I wanted to be a lead guitarplayer and just a rock star.
So I'm like you know what?
I'm just going back to that.
So I became a guitar player andthen I started doing gigs and

(40:12):
jumping up on stage and then Ijust started taking gigs and
being, you know, like, okay,I'll try this hired gun thing.
And so people would just hireme to go play shows and go tour
and you know, anybody that wouldask.
I was saying yes to everythingand it was fun.
And I got to tour Europe and Igot to do all this great stuff

(40:32):
and play all these big stagesand learn all these new
techniques and learn how tochicken pick and blues and all
these great forms of music, youknow.
And then after a while I waslike I didn't like it.
I didn't like working forpeople.

Basile (40:50):
Well, being a hired gun is difficult, yeah, I mean, it's
not always a huge payday.
It's a hustle, right?
It's a hustle, and you'replugging into someone else's
creative endeavor.
It's never about you, right?
You're plugging into someoneelse's dream, someone else's
tour, someone else's.

Tommy Daley (41:10):
And look, I'm not knocking that.
I think that's fantastic Peoplethat are musicians.
They come here to work and theydo it.
You know, this is just aself-discovery thing.
This is my experience, you know.
I mean, I have tons of friendswho are, you know, sideman
musicians and they love it, theyhave wonderful lives and they
do it.
I mean, it is a grind sometimes, you know.

Basile (41:33):
I think.
From what I understand, itseems like because we're all
looking for ground underneathour feet.
When you're a hired gun, it'shard because you don't know how
long that's going to last andyou don't know what the next gig
is going to be.
So I was kind of waiting forthe axe to drop.

Tommy Daley (41:55):
You know what I mean.
I mean and that's true, it'slike you know stability is
there's no security right.
You know, you could be gone.
You could spend like six monthslike building this band with
somebody and an artist yeah,this is great, great and then
like, hey, I'm changingdirection, you're out, you know.
So I didn't like that, I don't,I just don't.

(42:16):
You know, if I was 20, 25 orsomething like that, I could, I
could handle that.
But I was in my late 30s atthis point and I was like I
don't want to do this.
I've already had a.
This is my second career, youknow.

Basile (42:34):
So I I just didn't like working for people you know, but
it was probably a nice way foryou to get involved here and
meet people and establishyourself in Nashville.

Tommy Daley (42:44):
Yeah, it definitely did, and the experiences were
great and I, you know, I justkept adding tools to my toolbox
of life, you know, and I justdecided that.
You know, I didn't want to dothat.
So I was like, okay, I'm goingto do what I truly love, what
I've always wanted to do since Iwas a boy, and so I started my

(43:04):
own band.
I started my own rock and rollband called Black Shag that's
where I got the Black Shag namefrom.
I forget that sometimes.
Yeah, so I started this powertrio and, you know, just wrote
all my own songs and I couldn'tfind a singer.
So I ended up singing.
So I took vocal lessons andtried to be a lead singer, which
is, you know, I was just aguitar player singing.

Basile (43:27):
Is that where James Lugo came in?

Tommy Daley (43:29):
Yeah, definitely yeah.
You were doing your warmupsearlier before we jumped on air.
Yeah, you got to keep yourvoice straight, but yeah, I
tried really hard to do it andyou know it was more of just a
personal thing.
I had to do it for my soul.
I had to have my own band andmake a record and do it and put
it out there.

Basile (43:50):
So can we find Black Shad's music out there?

Tommy Daley (43:54):
There's somewhere like an EP or something like
that's out there.
You know, in hindsight it iswhat it is.
You know I'm going to find it.
Yeah well, you can, but it wasfun.
It was fun.
I had to do it for my soul.

Basile (44:08):
Right.
You might always wonder whatwould have happened if you had
tried that.
So you did it.

Tommy Daley (44:16):
Yeah, I built the home studio and did the whole
thing, tried to record andproduce and write everything
myself.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
You did.

Tommy Daley (44:23):
Yeah, exactly.
But again, you know it's likethis is great if you're 25 and
you move to LA, but I mean I waslike switching gears and you
know I didn't want to drivearound in a van and play for
like two people, you know,because it's very difficult, you
know, to start a rock band inyour late 30s and early 40s it

(44:43):
is.

Basile (44:44):
It's a hustle and sometimes you do have to do the
van before you graduate to a busor a plane.

Tommy Daley (44:52):
So that's where the name Black Shag came from.
So I was doing that.
And then I was like, oh, youknow a few years of that.
I'm like, all right, so I'mjust going to switch gears.
I started and I've always beena big vinyl collector, you know
vinyl LPs and stuff.
So I bought this jukebox onCraigslist, this like 60s
jukebox that played 45s.
So I'm like, oh, this is cool,it works.

(45:19):
So then I went nuts buying 45s,you know, to have the greatest
jukebox in the world with thegreatest songs on there, you
know.
So you know, and then after acouple of months I'm like I got
3,000 45s and I'm like I got waytoo many 45s.
What am I doing here?
I'm like obsessed.
So then I just set up at arecord convention to sell my 45s
.
And then some dude was there hesaid, oh, you should set up at
the Nashville flea market andsell these 45s.

(45:40):
You can share a booth with me.
So I set up my 45s there andthen I'm selling at the
Nashville flea market, which isonce a month.
You know, this is just like ahobby really, and you know.

(46:05):
And then I see all these other.
I saw this guy sitting outsidelike selling old t-shirts and
cut off jean shorts.
I'm like this dude is killingit out there.
Like I started selling at theflea market every month and I
also had four booths and I justkept getting bigger and bigger
and like I'm being reallysuccessful at it.

Basile (46:19):
It was fun for you to source what you were selling.

Tommy Daley (46:22):
Yeah, and that informed my LA roots working at
JetRag and my mom also had avintage clothing store in
Buffalo growing up when I movedaway.

Basile (46:30):
Oh, I didn't know that.

Tommy Daley (46:31):
Yeah, I used to go to flea markets with her as a
boy, so it was kind of always inthere and I was always a
vintage enthusiast.
And you know, when I was in therecord business I was the guy
wearing like cool vintage shirtsand you know pants and you know
concert t-shirts and stuff.
So it was always part of myaesthetic, you know.
And then it became this thingand I just set up these big

(46:53):
booths at the flea market.
Once in a while the people comeand come to my booth.
I'm like, oh my god, thisstuff's amazing.
Do you have a shop?
And I got sick of saying no.
So I went and looked around andfound a shop and where was the
first location where I starteddoing?
antique mall booths where youcould put your stuff and just

(47:14):
let it sit there for.

Basile (47:15):
Like East Nashville Antiques right here yeah except
they were on 8th and Wedgwood.

Tommy Daley (47:19):
Okay, I had that and I had one in Germantown and
then I would set up at the fleamarket.
So it was a hustle but Iactually really enjoyed it.
You know, it was fun and I wasgood at it, probably get to meet
a lot of cool people.

Basile (47:32):
Yeah, you do and talk music and it was validation.

Tommy Daley (47:36):
People like, wow, when people buy something that
you find and it just feels goodand it makes them so happy and
it was just a rewardingexperience, like every day
because of something I did, youknow, and I didn't have to
answer to anybody.
I didn't have to.

(47:59):
Oh it's such a beautiful thingto be an entrepreneur and get to
make your own schedule andhandle your own shit yeah for
sure.
So that was happening and I'mlike, okay, I'm just going to
jump into this thing.
So then I found a retail placethis old fire station, all of a
sudden drove by.
I've been looking at it foryears and all of a sudden there
was a for lease sign.
So I just jumped in there.
I used all my persuasion skillsthat I learned in the record

(48:19):
business and I went and got aspace and set it up and just
grew it.

Basile (48:25):
And that's where you guys are now.

Tommy Daley (48:26):
Yeah, and now we're like this super cool rock and
roll vintage store and becauseI've always loved records, like,
oh wait, I have a shop, I canstart my own record.
Oh, you almost have to haverecords in there.
So then you know, here I am,you know, I don't have a boss,
I'm running my own business.
I'm like, okay, I want a recordstore, so I'm going to start
selling records.
And oh, I'm gonna sell concertt-shirts.

(48:48):
Yeah, oh, I love turquoisejewelry.
I'm going to get some of that.
So I could just do whatever Iwanted and based on what I love.
And I think that's why it'ssuccessful, because it's truly
curated by my passion for allthings cool or what I do.
So I'm grateful for that andit's working.
And I'm about to launch asecond location, actually in

(49:20):
Nashville, in Marathon Village,and see if I can do it twice.

Basile (49:28):
I know you can do it twice.
What's the address of the EastNashville location?

Tommy Daley (49:35):
1220 Gallatin Avenue.
It's in a historic fire stationthat was built in 1930.
It's cool, it's super cool andI'm very grateful and fortunate
to have that space.
It's a dream and it works wellwith what I do.

Basile (49:53):
Yeah, and then you're also online.

Tommy Daley (49:55):
Yeah, we have blackshagvintagecom, you know a
couple thousand pieces andthat's been going well for years
.
So yeah, it's this little thing, it's a vibe, you know.

Basile (50:08):
And at the new location you're going to have a little
place to hang.

Tommy Daley (50:12):
Well, I mean, in itself it's a hang it is a hang.

Basile (50:16):
It's a hang.
We know that I'm there all thetime.

Tommy Daley (50:19):
But yeah, it's a good place to hang out.
I mean we'll see.
I mean I'm building it outright now.
I'm going to go over theretoday and finish building it out
and paint and set up racks andthe whole thing.

Basile (50:30):
You're going to have a big like grand opening parking
lot bash.

Tommy Daley (50:35):
Yeah, we'll have a grand opening gala.

Basile (50:37):
Have some music.

Tommy Daley (50:38):
Yeah, have some music.
Is Black Shag?

Basile (50:41):
going to play?
No, but that's why don't you?
That'd be so funny.

Tommy Daley (50:47):
It's definitely something I want to explore
again, you know, and just needthe time to put it together.

Basile (50:55):
Well, yeah, because you don't want to explore again, you
know, and just need the time toput it together.
Well, yeah, because you don'twant to get up there and just,
you know, wing it, you're goingto have to rehearse and it's a
time thing like running a smallbusiness is pretty much 24-7 and
then oh yeah, you're one of thebusiest people I know.
I mean to get you.
I've been asking you for twoyears to come on the show, maybe
even three.

Tommy Daley (51:07):
Yeah, well here and thank you for having me Well of
course I know it's unrehearsed,I'm just going all over the
place, but yeah.

Basile (51:16):
No, it's just a conversation.

Tommy Daley (51:20):
That's all it is.

Basile (51:21):
So what else do you want to know?
I mean, I just ask you what Iwant to know on the daily.
So no pun intended.
Are you a relation to?

Tommy Daley (51:32):
the Chicago Daily family Somewhere down the family
tree.
Yeah, I mean, let me put itthis way I could have you know I
would get out of speedingtickets and stuff a lot in
Chicago if I got pulled over.
Because, yeah, I mean somewheredown the family tree but not
directly related to it, butthere's a lot of dailies in
Chicago.

Basile (51:51):
Oh yeah.

Tommy Daley (51:56):
Yeah, that was an empire at one time and a lot of
my I mean I was born in Chicago,yeah, but I moved to Buffalo,
you know, when I was one yearold, because my dad got a job,
so but, yeah, we'd go back toChicago all the time, you know,
and all of my cousins andeverybody lived there.

Basile (52:13):
Maybe that's where you get your work ethic.
Like you have an innate workethic like no one I've seen.

Tommy Daley (52:22):
Well, I think I got the work ethic from being in
the record business, becausethere was no room for error
there.
You can't sit around whenyou're in LA.
It's like, well, you need tocall so-and-so and see what this
is.
Oh, and there's always somebodythat wants your job and it's
you know, someone would tell youto call someone and then be
like I meant now, call them nowand get it done.

(52:44):
True, that's true.
So it's not like, oh, I'll getaround to it, it's like, oh,
I'll email them later.

Basile (52:49):
Or I'll wait.
Hold on, I have other stuff todo.

Tommy Daley (52:52):
I'll get to that tomorrow, like go, you have to
go, and that's where I learnedmy work ethic.
And you know you have to go, dothe thing all the time, that's
funny.

Basile (53:01):
I never thought about that.
But I like to do thingsimmediately, like if I'm told to
do something or I need to sendan invoice or whatever, I'm
going to do it right now andit's crossed off the list.
I never have to think about itagain.

Tommy Daley (53:13):
Well, we can talk about productivity.
I mean, one of the things thatI like to do is, if it takes
less than five minutes, do itnow.

Basile (53:21):
Right.

Tommy Daley (53:22):
You know, and I try to teach that to my staff.
It's like do it, you know.

Basile (53:27):
They don't understand.
They're learning a lot from you.
They won't know it now.
They'll know it later.

Tommy Daley (53:37):
Yeah, and I didn't know it now when I was being
trained.
You know, you just learn andyou know I love productivity and
I love being efficient anddoing stuff.
You know.

Basile (53:45):
Well, philosophically, we work for work's sake.

Tommy Daley (53:52):
If you can do something that you love's a huge
bonus, and it ends up notfeeling like work well, that's
where I am, like there's a lotof work involved and I do get
tired and I'm like, oh, I gottado this or whatever, but I still
love what I do.
It's this is the funnest jobI've ever had.

(54:12):
I mean, the record business wasfun in the nineties, it was
great, and but you know, I wasworking for somebody else.
Now I'm building my littlevintage empire on my own and,
you know, with my staff, and Idon't have to answer to anybody,
I have to answer to myself, youknow.

(54:38):
So you have to work hard.
I mean, I could, you know, say,oh, I'm going to close on
Sundays, you know, and you know,but then I would lose all that
money and I just I can't stopworking, you know.

Basile (54:47):
I'm guessing that you have crunched the numbers and
looked at productivity and daysof the week, the flow of traffic
in the store and all of thosethings to make those decisions.
But are you hitting pause andtaking care of yourself?

Tommy Daley (55:09):
Yeah, I do.
I mean I try to, you know, havemy morning rituals and things
like that.

Basile (55:14):
I was going to ask about the matcha.
I'm like, what are Tommy Daly'smorning rituals?

Tommy Daley (55:20):
Well, I mean, the first thing I do in the morning
when I wake up is I scrape mytongue for one.
That's the first thing I do.
I scrape my tongue too, get ridof all that bacteria.
And then I drink a big glass ofwater with Himalayan salt and
half a lemon.
I just guzzle that down.
I take my supplements.
You know my morning.

Basile (55:39):
Why the?

Tommy Daley (55:39):
salt For electrolytes just to replenish
your body.
Rehydrate your body first thingin the morning.

Basile (55:49):
I do lemon, olive oil and cayenne pepper.
I mean, yeah, that's a thing,it helps move things around.

Tommy Daley (55:59):
So I hydrate myself , and then matcha tea is my
favorite.
I'm addicted to matcha.
Are you still walking everymorning?
Not every morning, but I alsohave an inside exercise bike.
I try to do 20 minutes on thator take a walk and I do yoga.
I practice yoga every morningat least some sort of stretching

(56:20):
yoga thing by myself, you know.

Basile (56:23):
Meditation.

Tommy Daley (56:25):
Yeah, meditation is one thing I haven't been able
to really harness yet, but Iguess I meditate in my own way.
My yoga is my meditation and Ican find stillness.
But that's one of the thingsthat I'm working on and I would
like to grow into this year isget my meditation together
better.

Basile (56:45):
Well, you just gave me an idea.
I know what book I'm going toget you Cool.
Speaking of books, I know youread because I get some ideas
from you.
The book on AI Future Proofthat came from you.
I've talked about it here onthe podcast.

(57:06):
Yeah, Awesome, and it was aneasy read.
Whoever that writer is, Iforget his name.
I forgot his name too, but it'sa great book.
I mean, it was an easy readbecause he just made it super
digestible and it was good.

Tommy Daley (57:20):
Well, those are my favorite favorite authors that
make it fun.
You know, not such a Makelearning fun, not manual like
you know what are you readingnow.
I just started Ryan Holiday'sbook Ego is the Enemy.
That's his new one, right?
I don't think it's new, it'sbeen out, but he has a whole

(57:43):
series on virtues of stoicism.
I've read a few of his booksand you know I was saving the
Ego one and it's actually I'mreading.
I just started it and it's likeit's the perfect book to read
as I'm trying to launch a newbusiness and you know how?
About how ego.
I haven't gotten deep in it soI can't describe it, but he's a

(58:04):
wonderful author and he teachesgreat stoicism.

Basile (58:09):
I'm reading when Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron Again
, I don't know that, but yeah,and I think I was reading about
ego yesterday.
I read stuff like that inchunks and then I'll do my yoga
meditation and kind of sit in itand think how can I apply this

(58:33):
to what's going on right now?
And so I've been doing thatevery morning forever.
I remember when I was immersedin 12-step it was pages 86
through 88.
I think I read that every dayin the morning for a year.

Tommy Daley (58:51):
Yeah, I think I did that too when I first got sober
.

Basile (58:55):
That'd be something interesting for me to pick up
again.
But 86 through 88 in the bigbook of Alcoholics Anonymous,
yeah, and then you subscribe toa vegan diet and lifestyle.

Tommy Daley (59:14):
Yeah, do you wear leather?
I mean, I have some vintageleather.
I mean I don't.
I don't necessarily identify aslike a vegan because of the
label.
I prefer plant-based.
Everything in my life isplant-based that seems like a

(59:35):
modern term for that.
Well, because there's somenegative connotations with
veganism, because there's somuch misinformation out there
about it and you know it seemsto be a polarizing subject
sometimes.
So I just avoid that by, youknow.

Basile (59:53):
Well, people also get the.
How do you know someone doesCrossFit.

Tommy Daley (59:58):
They'll tell you.

Basile (59:59):
How do you know someone's a vegan?

Tommy Daley (01:00:02):
Because they'll tell you.
I mean, I've heard all thejokes and everything like that.

Basile (01:00:05):
Right, I'm sure we can find out other things, but I get
it.
I like plant-based.
How do you know someone's newlysober?
But I get it.
I like plant-based.
How do you know someone's newlysober?
They'll tell you, yeah.
How do you know someone's an AA?
They'll tell you AlcoholicsAnonymous.
Yeah, they'll tell you.
Yeah, well, thank you forcoming by.
I do have a ton of questions.

(01:00:26):
Maybe we'll save anotherepisode for after the second
location opens and we'll ask youhow that went.

Tommy Daley (01:00:35):
Sure, I mean, yeah, it's exciting stuff.
Well, thanks for having me.
This is a pleasure.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't knowwhere it was going to go and I
hope it's interesting to people.

Basile (01:00:47):
Well, yeah, it's always interesting and we do.
I think most of the episodeshave a music thread.
This is the last episode that'snot going to be on video.
We're switching to a differentplatform and growing the podcast
, which is really exciting, so Idefinitely want you to come

(01:01:08):
back once things get rolling.

Tommy Daley (01:01:10):
Well, you should go back to video.
I like watching podcasts onYouTube too.

Basile (01:01:14):
That's.
I listen, that's what I'mworking on these days.
So I've been really busybuilding something, and not all
of it's fun, but it's aninvestment in yourself and I'm
the type where I want instantgratification or immediate
reward in that, like I want mybank statement to look bigger at

(01:01:35):
the end of the day.
You know, after all this workI'm putting into something.
But that's what it is.
It's you're putting, you'reinvesting in yourself.
Do what you love and the moneywill follow.
Pretty much that's kind of whatI did when I was a yoga
counselor.
Humility, yeah, for real.

(01:01:55):
Like you can't go intosomething wanting to make a
million dollars or I'm gonna gointo this to be famous.
No, if you do it because youlove it and also, at the core of
it, if you just really wannaengage with others and maybe
even help other people somehow,that's also propelling.

Tommy Daley (01:02:14):
Yeah, exactly, I think the reason that my current
vintage clothing business issuccessful is because I love it.
I'm not trying to make money.
I mean the money is like abyproduct and you're employing
young musicians in town.
I'm a job creator.

Basile (01:02:35):
You're a job creator and the gigs that they have kind of
.

Tommy Daley (01:02:43):
Well, it's a pain in the ass hiring young
musicians in town.
It is but Because they'realways going to gigs.

Basile (01:02:48):
I see and I support their dream.
It's really good for thembecause it's parallel to what
they're doing, because of thevisual aspect of things.
And so there's that stylingthing which we didn't even touch
on because, Well, yeah, I meanwe could have a whole podcast on
black shag and what it isreally.

Tommy Daley (01:03:06):
I mean, people are just Maybe that's part two.
I mean we can do a part twobecause I have a lot of ideas
about all of that.

Basile (01:03:15):
Right.
Well, you have your finger onthe pulse of that piece, and
that's a huge piece of whathappens here in Nashville behind
the scenes that people don'teven know about the styling
world.
That's a job in itself.

Tommy Daley (01:03:29):
Yeah, the styling world, and we have a ton of
celebrities that shop us.

Basile (01:03:35):
Let's leave them with.
Can we tell them the HarryStyles story?
Let's leave them with that.
No, no, it's cute.

Tommy Daley (01:03:42):
Let's save that for next time, really, let's do a
Black Shag Vintage podcast wherewe can actually talk about that
and incorporate some of theother stuff we did.

Basile (01:03:52):
Okay.
Well then, I have you on thehook for part two.
Okay, right on.
Well, have a good rest of yourday.
Thank you, and I end every showby saying take care of one
another.
Take care of one another.
Bye-bye now.
I'd like to ask you something.
We've got time All right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
It occurred to me, having watched MTV over the last
few months, that it's a solidenterprise and it's got a lot
going for it.
I'm just floored by the factthat there's so few black
artists featured on it.
Why is that?

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
I think that we're trying to move in that direction
.
We want to play artists thatseem to be doing music that fits
into what we want to play forMTV.
The company is thinking interms of narrow casting.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
That's evident.
It's evident in the fact thatthe only few black artists that
one does see are on about 2.30in the morning to around 6.
Very few are featured,predominantly during the day.
No, I'll say that over the lastcouple of weeks these things
have been changing.

Speaker 4 (01:04:55):
but it's a slow process.
I know it's funny.
I think people have differentperceptions.
When you wind up watching let'ssay you watch an hour or two or
even three a day people somehowcome away with different ideas
about what we are doing.
We don't have any kind of daypartying for anything, let alone

(01:05:17):
a black artist day partied outof what would be quote, prime
time.
We don't have that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Because one sees a lot on the.
There's one black station ontelevision that I keep picking
up.
I'm not sure which station it'son, but there seem to be a lot
of black artists making verygood videos that I'm surprised
aren't used on MTV.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
Well, of course also we have to try and do what we
think not only New York and LosAngeles will appreciate, but
also Poughkeepsie or MidwestPick some town in the Midwest
that will be scared to death byPrince, which we're playing, or
a string of other black facesand black music.
That's very interesting, Isn'tthat interesting?

(01:05:57):
We have to play the music thatwe think an entire country is
going to like, and certainlywe're a rock and roll station.
Now the question would be askedwell, should, since we're in
New York, should PLJ play theIsley Brothers?
Well, you and I might say yeah,because we have grown up in an

(01:06:18):
era when the Isley Brothers meansomething to me, and so do the
Spinners, even way after theIsley Brothers.
But what does it mean to a17-year-old?
Well, if you talk on the phonesto these guys, like I did when
I was in radio, it's scary.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Well, I'll tell you what it means.
I did when I was in radio.
Well, I'll tell you what itmeans.
I'll tell you what maybe theIsley Brothers or Marvin Gaye
means to a black 17-year-old.

Speaker 4 (01:06:37):
Ah, and surely he's part of America as well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
No question, no question, and that's why you're
seeing those things, do you notfind that it's a frightening
predicament to be in?

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
Yeah, but less so here than in radio.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
And is it not well?
Don't say well, it's not me,it's them.
Is it not possible that itshould be a?
Conviction of the station andof other radio stations.
To be fair, it does seem to berampant through American media.
Should it not be a challenge totry and make the media far more

(01:07:07):
integrated?
In music especially of anythingin musical terms.

Speaker 4 (01:07:12):
Absolutely.
I think it's happening becausewhite music and white musicians
are now starting to play morethan ever more than they have
lately, let's say in the last 10years what black artists have
been into.
And now, hopefully, the linesare going to start to blur.
And when we play a band likeABC, well, there's white and

(01:07:39):
black kids who are enjoying itand all of a sudden, well, it's
a little bit easier for a whitekid to understand it.
The fact is, quite frankly Icould even point you towards a
letter in the new issue of theRecord, the magazine the Record,
responding to an article byDave Marsh that this kid just
ranted about what he didn't wantto see on MTV.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Well, that's his problem and in no uncertain
terms.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
Well, what I'm saying , though, is that there's, as
you say, there's certainly a lotof black kids and white kids
who may want to see black music.
There's a ton of them who are.
It's not like it was in 67,where you say yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
I'm not into that, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
But you are Now it's you're into that.
I don't like you and that'sscary and we can't just turn
around and go.
Well, look, this is the rightway.
We can only teach, I think, alittle bit at a time Interesting
.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Okay, thank you very much.
Does that make sense?
Valid point.
I understand your point of view.