January 22, 2025 • 37 mins
Engaging with the intricacies of grief, Dr. Ray Mitsch joins Lisa Anderson on the Boundless Show to discuss his insightful book, "The Seasons of Our Grief: Embracing the Journey." The discussion sheds light on the prevalent misconceptions surrounding grief, particularly the linear models often referenced in psychological literature. Dr. Mitsch argues that grief is more akin to the changing seasons, each with its own emotional landscape and tasks. For instance, winter is characterized by acceptance and introspection, while spring heralds a reawakening of feelings and reflection on what has been lost. This cyclical perspective encourages individuals to recognize that grief does not follow a strict timeline and that it can resurface at any moment, much like the seasons themselves.
Throughout the conversation, Dr. Mitsch shares his personal journey with chronic pain and the accompanying grief that arose from his life-altering experiences. His candidness about the challenges he faced provides a relatable backdrop for understanding how grief can manifest in various forms, not solely tied to the death of a loved one. The episode emphasizes the importance of acknowledging one's unique grief journey without the pressure of societal expectations or comparisons to others. Dr. Mitsch emphasizes that each person’s experience is valid and that it is essential to create spaces for honest conversations about grief, allowing individuals to process their emotions authentically.
The episode also highlights the significance of community support in navigating the grief journey. Dr. Mitsch and Lisa discuss the resources available through SGI (Stained Glass International), advocating for the importance of connection and shared experiences as part of the healing process. By fostering a community where individuals can openly discuss their grief, SGI aims to normalize these conversations, helping listeners find solace in knowing they are not alone. This episode serves as a compassionate reminder that grief is a shared human experience and offers listeners practical insights and encouragement to embrace their journeys with empathy and understanding.
Takeaways:
- Grief is not a linear process; it comes in cycles like seasons of the year.
- Comparison in grief can be detrimental, as everyone's experience with loss is unique.
- Being present for someone grieving can often be more helpful than offering platitudes.
- Understanding that grief can manifest in unexpected emotional reactions is crucial for healing.
- Time alone does not heal all wounds; intentionality and processing are key to recovery.
- Experiencing grief is a normal part of life, not something to be ashamed of.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- SGI
- Boundless
- Colorado Christian University
- Stained Glass International
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Foreign.
(00:22):
Everybody to another episodeof Unscripted, the podcast Collected
wisdom of Life, living and sorrow.
And it is, as the nameimplies, very unscripted.
I get a wild hair aboutsomething and I decide that it's
time to share it with everyone.
(00:44):
And for good or for ill,that's what you end up getting.
So welcome to the new year.
Yes, I am.
19 minute.
19 minutes.
Wow, 19 days late, which isvery fitting.
And so here we go into a new year.
And I wanted to take anopportunity to share with you the
(01:09):
opportunity I had on 2 January.
So the new year was reallyvery young and I was invited to be
a guest on the Boundless showhosted by Lisa Anderson down in Colorado
Springs.
And it is a podcast andbroadcast both that is geared toward
(01:35):
20 and 30 somethings.
And so I was invited to comeon the show and talk a little bit
about the Seasons of OurGrief, my book that is just a year
old.
And so that's what this is.
And you will have theopportunity to listen in on the conversation.
(01:57):
And then when we finish withthat, then I'll be back to give you
a few special announcementsthat I think is gonna be exciting
and interesting for all of you.
So until then, enjoy theconversation and I will talk to you
on the backside of it.
(02:18):
Well, friends, happy New Year.
As I already said at the topof the show, we are squarely into
2025 and what better time totalk about.
Uh, so I'm going to introduceyou to our culture segment guest
today.
His name is Dr.
Ray Mitch and he is the authorof the Seasons of Our Grief, Embracing
(02:40):
the Journey.
And you're probably like,well, hey, what's up with that?
Or many of you are probablylike, oh, I'm so grateful for this
because we just came through aholiday season.
It is probably one of the moregrief filled seasons in our calendar
year when people maybe get hitby grief in a number of different
ways.
You may have celebratedChristmas without a family member
(03:01):
there.
You may have anticipated something.
You may have walked throughsome kind of a sickness or some kind
of a loss in another sense.
And so this is a greatopportunity as we look to a new year
to process what we have walkedthrough, even some of the things
that maybe we don't know aboutyet, because again, we have to have
good truths around this andunderstand what God's role is in
(03:24):
the process.
And so, Ray, welcome to theBoundless Show.
It's my pleasure.
Thanks for inviting me.
Well, this is so great for us.
Now you are a professor ofpsychology at Colorado.
Colorado Christian University.
You are professional, licensedprofessional counselor.
You've been practicing for,let's just say a while.
You look young.
(03:45):
You don't look like an oldster.
Okay.
You're seasoned, you're.
Well, my beard ages quickerthan I do.
There you go.
So you're an expert in this.
You actually, I'm reallycurious about this.
You actually, it says youfounded a nonprofit called Stained
Glass International, which isactually squarely targeted toward
Gen Z.
Yeah.
It's right in your deskdemographic, probably.
(04:07):
Because your connection withcollege students and all the stuff
that you're learning from them.
So, you guys, he has a realheart for you.
We talk mostly here to you 20and 30 somethings, the college student,
the young professional.
And so anyway, yeah, so he's,he's legit.
He's.
He has his PhD in counseling psychology.
(04:28):
And again, we're going to betalking about the book that he wrote
titled the Seasons of Our Grief.
And so I want to start out,Ray, with a little bit of your own
story because you have nowwalked with a personal injury for
what is decades at this point,for sure.
And, and I think that's sointeresting because immediately when
(04:49):
we think of grief, I thinkespecially a lot of younger adults
think of someone dying, butthere are a lot of griefs that we
have to process and walk through.
So talk a little bit aboutwhere your life was kind of turned
upside down as a result.
Yeah, yeah.
I was minding my own businessand on my roof and I stepped on the
ladder and me and the concretemat and I had a head injury and a
(05:12):
broken femur and that all gotpatched up relatively easily.
But I was left with pain.
My head pain.
And it's not a headache.
A lot of people say, well,it's a headache.
No, it's not a headache.
It's like somebody put icepick in your ear and squirrels it
around in there.
And so I bounced from doctorto doctor.
(05:34):
I lost my job.
I really didn't have much of ajob at the time and found it difficult
just to try to find my footing.
And I was tired.
I was tired of getting pokedwith needles and everything else.
And I really just gave up.
I gave up.
And then a friend found adoctor that works with pain management.
(05:59):
And I actually, and mystudents like to call me a cyborg
because I actually have apacemaker for pain in my head.
Wow.
And that has made mefunctional, essentially.
And so then it's trying to rebuild.
So the seasons I talk about, Ihave walked through and I'm in the
(06:20):
midst of it, I've had losseswithin the last, let's see, five,
six years now.
One just last March.
And I get to watch what Iwrote, which is really inconvenient.
But I think there's a lot ofthat that, like, I put in my bio.
(06:40):
I kind of got ambushed by Godin the midst of my pain.
And that's where a lot of mylearning ends up coming from, is
that.
And so it's captured, I think,in the book as well, and the character.
And it's like all of a suddenyou're like, oh, C.S.
lewis said, pain is God's megaphone.
(07:00):
And now I'm walking that out.
And none of us go, you know,the one thing I need in my life is
more pain or more grief.
We're not searching for it,but it is something that comes to
us.
All we're gonna experience asa result of a broken world, a sinful
world.
We're gonna experience lossand pain and hardship.
And so what I think is reallyinteresting and the reason you have
titled the book the Seasons ofOur Grief is we are prone to think
(07:24):
that grief is a linear processof just, I need to this.
I need to white knuckle it.
I need to.
Surely, you know, this too,will pass.
And so we're just hopeful thatevery day is better and better until
finally we're like, cool, it's done.
We're good.
You know, let's just pack itaway and be done.
(07:45):
But you're saying that that isnot the case at all.
And so I would love for you to.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthese seasons, because, again, we
don't want grief or loss orpain to hit us like the flu.
I often use that analogy ofjust, like, I'm just waiting for
life to happen to me.
Anytime we can have someintentionality toward it, it's good.
(08:06):
But when you're talking aboutseasons, give us an understanding
of what you mean.
Yeah.
The prevailing knowledge isstill based on Kubler Ross's stages.
And that's what tempts us into linearity.
You know, we say, well, I gotthrough the denial stage.
(08:26):
Check.
Let's move on to the next one.
And the longer I've been incounseling, the longer I've seen
my own process.
It runs in cycles.
And so I have looked at andread all of the material out there
on grief.
And probably the one that ismost grounded in our development
(08:47):
as humans is one that is builton tasks.
So you, like winter, you havecertain things to accomplish.
Like in winter, Your work isto accept the reality of what's happened.
But each season has adifferent tool.
You don't use the same tools.
I'm not going to use mysnowblower to get the leaves off
(09:10):
my lawn.
And so our temptation inthinking linearly makes it time limited
instead of how we experienceit throughout our lives.
And, you know, I think KublerRoss made the comment about we live
purposeless lives because wereally don't think we're ever going
(09:31):
to die.
And so grappling with deathand grief is grappling with life.
And that's probably one of thefirst things my students end up finding
out.
It's like, I thought this wasgoing to be the most depressing class
I've ever had.
And it's like, no, we'retalking about life here.
And if I can have some measureof depth about that, then I can invest
(09:55):
in what I got right now.
So it starts with winter,where everything's dead, literally
and figuratively.
And then it moves into spring,where our feelings awake and we start
to feel things.
It's like, I want to be backin winter, and then beyond spring,
then summer.
And now we get a rhythm, andwe think life's getting back to normal,
(10:18):
but then we get hijacked nowand again by stuff from the winter.
And here in Colorado, spring'snot safe.
You know, we get 34 inches ofsnow in April.
That's just wrong.
But.
And then once we get beyondsummer, we move into fall.
And fall is when all thecolors come back.
And so many people I've talkedto who are grieving and go through
(10:42):
this process and are willingto just lean into it, they're saying,
the color is coming back intomy life.
That's fall.
But we all know what's coming next.
And then anniversaries inwinter and so on and so forth.
So it creates a sense, I think.
And that's why I kind of gritmy teeth when people talk stages,
(11:05):
because it creates thisexpectation that, well, I get through
them all.
I'm done, right?
And it's like, well, unless.
No, yeah, no, that makes sense.
I think also one of the.
And maybe this is reflected insome of the seasons, too.
We always want to look around,and whatever we're walking through,
we want to compare it to whatothers have walked through or what
(11:28):
we should, you know, oh, well,when my friend lost her grandma,
this is how it played out.
So that's what it should looklike for me.
And, you know, again, there'sprobably someone listening who their
favorite grandma was gone thispast Christmas and it was the first
Christmas without them.
So they're kind of like, whatam I expecting?
What does this look like?
(11:48):
And what is the danger, wouldyou say, in comparison?
Well, first of all, how are wetempted to compare?
And what's the danger in that?
Yeah, I think the comparisongame is devastating because it robs
us of living the life we have,not the one we don't have.
And so the comparison thing,ultimately, whenever I compare, I'm
(12:13):
always going to lose.
Somebody's always going tohave it better, Somebody's always
going to be doing it better.
And if that's the case and Iapply it to grief, then I'm in real
trouble versus where I'm at.
And so the comparison issue isvery much a big one.
And people have such uniqueexperiences when it comes to grieving
(12:36):
that it looks like winterlasts four weeks and then other people,
winter lasts for six months.
And it's like, well, shouldn'tI be done by now?
And that word should is a killer.
Because again, should isusually a comparison.
And so I think the biggestchallenge is, like I say in the book,
(13:00):
is kind of finding otherpeople that are willing to live grief
and live life as they have it,not as they wish it should be, and
talk that through and bring it out.
Because I can't fightsomething I don't name.
Yeah, that's good.
So to that end, though, itmakes me curious.
How can a person determinewhether or not they're in a cycle?
(13:24):
They're just doing the thing.
They can't compare their storywith someone else's.
They may think, oh, this issomething that happened three years
ago.
Why am I still dealing with this?
What's the difference betweenthat something just being revisited
and something truly beingdebilitating, where they might actually
need to get some help beyondwhere they are?
I mean, it's come to the pointwhere they might actually be losing
(13:46):
out on some life because of this.
Yeah, and so much of that is,you know, psychology we refer to
as pre morbid.
It's so much of that is whatyou bring with you into the loss.
And so if I struggle withdepression before then, I'm probably
going to have it even more so,which means I better find some help.
(14:07):
I need to talk to somebodyabout it.
See, winter ends up being verycomforting because everything is
quiet and I'm numb and I don'tfeel a lot and I'm good.
And then we get to spring andeverything wakes up.
And so then like, depressionor anxiety seems to go into Overdrive.
(14:27):
And when it gets to that pointwhere it's dominating all of our
days and the language islanguage of grief, but it's still
anxiety and depression that Ineed to see somebody.
On the other hand, there's alot of times that I spend where I
spend all of my time.
And I've said this so manytimes, I spent all my time normalizing
(14:48):
the experience.
It's like, no, that's a normal thing.
So there's waxes and waningsof depression or discouragement or
whatever, and then there's not.
And that's grief.
And unfortunately, today we'vepathologized grief.
Right, right.
And that really gets in the way.
(15:10):
Yeah.
And it's interesting because Ithink, you know, again, we think
of grief as a solitarypursuit, like something that.
Oh, well, I'm, you know, whereI referenced white knuckling it.
I'm just gonna.
No one has experienced thislike I have.
You know, we don't necessarilyreach out to others, but I think
it can be tricky because.
(15:30):
Ray, I'd love for you to talka little bit about it seems like
either we, well meaning peoplewill offer platitudes that are just
not helpful in grief, youknow, comes to mind when someone
loses a loved one.
Well, you know, now heaven hasan angel.
I mean, some things are justnot even true.
Some things are true, butmaybe not helpful.
Other things are just not even true.
(15:52):
But this idea of there areeither platitudes or this idea that
if we just wait it out, kindof the well, which is almost a platitude,
the time will heal all wounds.
What would you say?
Where do you see some of thosemost egregiously?
And what is a better way for afriend or a family member to walk
with someone towards anyseason of grief, quite frankly?
(16:15):
Sure, yeah.
No, I think Christians aren'tunique, but we have more ammunition
for our platitudes.
And I call them ghost sentences.
It sounds like it's helpful.
But the person who's grieving,I mean, think about Job, Job's friends.
Unfortunately, a lot of usChristians are like his friends.
(16:36):
And we're looking for anexplanation for the disasters that
has befallen him.
And so I think to walk throughis to live with that in the person
and not try to correct.
All of grief is about connection.
It is not about correction.
And when we start to correctit and say, like you said, you know,
(17:01):
they're in a better place forsomebody who's grieving, like where
I've been, it's like I Don't care.
I don't care.
There is a hole in my heartthat will never be filled.
Now what?
So there's that.
And then the time heals all wounds.
That again, my head explodesbecause time does nothing other than
(17:22):
either it passes or I dosomething with the time and make
it count for healing and be apart of it.
There's a lot of big.
There's a huge paradox ingrief because we want to run from
it.
And the way to get.
Get through it is to lean into it.
And everything in us isscreaming to go the other direction.
(17:44):
So true.
Because my dad passed away of cancer.
And I remember during thattime you could tell some people were
very reluctant to talk to meabout my dad.
They thought if I don't sayanything, maybe I don't want to bring
up something bad.
I don't.
But actually share.
Sharing memories of my dad andlaughing about funny things my dad
said and reminiscing was sohelpful for me.
(18:06):
So I had to like, tell people,no, do tell that story about my dad
or do.
I don't wanna act like he wasnever here.
It felt like it was almostdishonoring of him to act like he
was no longer that he hadnever been around.
And so that is so helpful.
But even getting back to Job'sstory, I think sometimes it's helpful
just to be that person who'sgoing to be present.
(18:28):
Maybe you don't have to have abunch of words.
I don't know if there's a.
If there's wisdom in that, but.
Oh, there is.
I mean, apparently there areMitchisms at ccu and one of them
is people desire our presencemore than they desire our profundity.
Okay.
And that's what that is.
Be present with me.
(18:48):
Because Job's friends weren't.
They created distance by allthe stuff that they wanted to say.
And we get reallyuncomfortable with Job stamping his
feet and demanding an audienceand everything else.
It's like that's what grief does.
And you see C.S.
lewis's story, he really goesafter God early.
And he's saying when you needhim the most, all you get is a double
(19:12):
bolted door.
And that kind of honesty, Idon't think it's going to take God
off guard.
Sure.
And even if you look at Jesusand Lazarus.
Lazarus, two sisters both saythe same thing, but do it very differently.
Martha gets in his chest andstarts spoken at him.
And Mary says the same thing,but falls at his feet both in grief.
(19:37):
And then Jesus weeps.
Sure.
Well, I think one of the otherchallenges or one of the other traps
we can easily fall into isthis idea of kind of analysis paralysis,
getting into all the what ifs.
Well, would this have happened?
What if I'd done this differently?
What if I'd engaged in this way?
What if I had, you know, takenXYZ medication or researched more,
(20:01):
whatever, or my.
I remember again, thinking ofmy dad.
I was determined I was goingto juice him out of cancer, you know,
And I read.
I've read a few books.
I'd heard that it had workedfor some people.
And I'm like, I bought theChampion juicer.
I went after it.
I'm like, this will be.
And I'm naturally.
I know you're shocked to hearthis, Dr.
Ray, but I am naturally acontrol freak.
(20:22):
So I know it's shocking.
It's shocking.
But I was just like, here, I'mgoing to do the things.
And it was me just saying, Ireally don't trust God with this,
so I need to step in and do this.
But how can we get blindsidedby the what ifs and get caught in
that?
Yeah, I think it happens mostin spring.
And we're trying to make senseof reality.
(20:42):
And so we write the story, right?
And we write the story, and wewrite the story with a possible scenario.
And so we really hateunfinished stories as humans.
We absolutely hate them.
And so that means then thatI'm going to find a way to complete
(21:02):
the circle, the story circle.
And with that, then there's my answer.
You know, if I had, then theywouldn't have.
And so those kinds of thingsgoes to your point.
It's like I've got to controlthe ending outcome here.
And the way that I do that isI reframe it so that it's back on
(21:26):
me.
Because then I know who to blame.
Then I know who to go after.
Can't go after the personwho's died, which ultimately, sooner
or later we're going to do.
And that, you know, my daddied when I was 12.
It took me 10 years.
I did all the wrong things.
And I finally got around tosaying, I am really ticked that you
left.
(21:47):
Well, congratulations.
You just are now grieving.
And that's what it takes, I think.
And so we get so afraid of ouranger that we're gonna say something
wrong that we cease to be human.
Sure, sure.
I know one of my things that Ihad to walk through because I also,
not too long ago, my mompassed away and she had dementia,
(22:10):
you know, older.
And I'm the youngest of six kids.
So both my parents were older,but she.
Her last three months, she wasin a memory care fac facility.
And her.
Her kind of downhill slide waspretty fast.
Just a few days, you know, andwe knew it was coming, but I'd been
with her that whole evening.
So I went home to sleep andgot the call at 5am that she had
(22:32):
passed away.
And immediately my what if was.
I should have been there.
I should have been holding herhand, singing hymns, praying for
her and all of that.
And one of my dear friendssaid one of the most helpful things
to me.
And she said, lisa, the oneperson who needed to be there was
there and that's Jesus.
And again, I think it'shelpful for us to put whatever season
(22:53):
we're in to put our headsaround God, who can do all the things,
quote, unquote, fix anythingif there's anything we're doing wrong,
anything we feel like, youknow, it's just like he holds it,
you know, and it can't, man.
I mean, the blame, you know, Iblamed myself for a couple months
(23:13):
probably for not being in theright place and not doing the right
thing.
So I think that is so, so helpful.
Well, I would love for you, Dr.
Mitch, to kind of, in our lastminute or so here, is there anything.
There might be peoplelistening who don't even know that
they're grieving.
Maybe they've stuffedsomething they haven't acknowledged.
They thought they quote Godover something.
(23:34):
Whatever.
What does it look like toenter intentionally into this process
and maybe ask the right questions?
What.
What should a person be awareof as they may be experiencing grief
or may need to bring somethingup that hasn't been addressed.
Y.
I think probably the one thingthat comes to mind is that there's
usually situations like in amovie that I have an abundant reaction
(23:58):
to that's way out of proportion.
And that's usually a telltalethat there's a well that I've capped
and it's pushing and I startfeeling it.
So a lot of times that's, youknow, even the productive part of
grief is that you move into it.
You watch a movie.
Well, we say, well, that's sad.
(24:18):
Well, no, but it lets thewound weep, if you will.
And that's all part of the growth.
So I think situations thatwould remind us.
And then being ambushed ofemotions that don't make sense and
just talking to people andsuddenly getting choked up, and it's
like, what's up with that?
And see, I think generallypeople don't ask that Question.
(24:41):
They say, oh, this is inconvenient.
Or they apologize for their tears.
It's like, like, what's goingon with that?
Or they'll say, oh, I'm justan emotional person.
Or I'm just.
They're gonna make somethingup, you know, explain it.
So.
Or other people will say,you're really an emotional person.
Now I'm mad because now youjust told me.
Now don't tell me what I'm feeling.
It goes as sad as mad.
Yeah, right, exactly.
(25:02):
So.
Well, such great insights here.
And folks, I want you to knowthe book again that we've been talking
about is the Seasons of Our Grief.
I've been talking to Dr.
Ray Mitch.
We wanna make a copy of hisbook available to you for a gift
of any amount.
We are doing that again wherewe always love getting our guests
resources into your hands.
(25:22):
So how do you do that?
Go to Boundless.org, searchfor 883 this week's episode.
You'll see the book cover there.
You just click on it.
You give a gift, whatever youcan afford in the new year to Boundless.
And we're going to send a copyof the book as our thank you to you
for being part of theBoundless family.
And this might be somethingyou need.
You might need to gift this to someone.
(25:42):
You might need to get it andread it with someone so you can make
it happen.
And, And I hope that you.
I really trul.
Hope that you will.
So, Dr.
Mitch, thanks again for beinga guest here.
It's been a pleasure.
All right, well, I sure hopethat you enjoyed that little conversation.
It was not nearly enough time,needless to say, in terms of all
(26:03):
that I have included in thebook, but all the things that I tend
to teach about in the griefand loss class at ccu and we touched
on things in terms of each ofthe seasons and it had to be very
condensed.
And it's a little frustratingwhen I live my life by an hour and
(26:25):
15 minute intervals in termsof my teaching and questions and
discussion and other thingslike that.
So that gives you a sample.
Maybe it sets the stage foryou for the year to come in terms
of the things that you mightneed to look at more closely.
(26:45):
I don't think that we can livelife without the subtext of sorrow.
And we have losses all thetime and we don't put those in the
same category, if you will, aswe put it in the category of losing
somebody we love.
And I think in some respectsthat's kind of our way of containing
it and controlling it ultimately.
(27:08):
And so that's a bigger conversation.
I will come back around to itat another point in time, I'm sure.
Now, for why you hung around,maybe, I don't know.
But you can find everythingyou want to find out about unscripted
and about the other podcasts,the Outpost Podcast, just go to sgi-net.org
(27:30):
and that is the home for notonly the SGI community, information
about our silent retreats andall the other resources that are
available to you throughoutSGI or Stained Glass International.
So you can follow us on thethree media, social media outlets.
At Instagram, it'sSGIinternational, and in Facebook
(27:55):
it is Stained Glass International.
All one word, lowercase.
And then of course, if you'reon LinkedIn and you want to be, check
out some of the episodes thatI have put up on LinkedIn, you can
do that as well.
The address there is Dr.
Mitch.
Period.
Nope, not period in the name,just Dr.
(28:17):
Mitch.
Don't forget to spell my lastname correctly or you won't find
me.
So some announcements Imentioned to you, first and foremost,
what you will find on thepodcast is an opportunity that, if
you are interested, to getinvolved in a group of people that
are talking about some of theissues that I'm talking about here.
(28:40):
And this is kind of apotpourri of issues.
It's not just about sorrow,it's about a lot of other things.
But if you're Interested, oneof SGI's major missions is to develop
and cultivate communities ofthe soul or outposts for the soul
(29:02):
or for the heart, and to trainup leaders to be able to lead that
competently.
Not ones that have an agendaand don't know they have an agenda.
The ones that can enter in andtalk to you about doing life.
And if you haven't ever bumpedinto Jesus before, maybe you can
(29:23):
have the opportunity to dothat just in the relationships.
And that doesn't mean that's aprimary agenda.
It isn't necessarily theprimary agenda, although it may draw
those kind of people together.
And everybody needs to learn alittle bit about walking in the steps
of Jesus in terms ofrelationships, in terms of friendships,
(29:45):
in terms of the issues of theday, all of those things.
And it is a place to workthose things out.
It's not the challenge, ofcourse, is everybody really shies
away from the vulnerability.
So we find ways to hide behindscripture or behind discussions on
(30:08):
academic subjects or subjectsjust about our knowledge, not about
our hearts.
And that's really what theseleaders are being developed over
time to do is to direct us towalk the landscape of our hearts
with one another in community.
Because it's there that wewill find out things we never heard
(30:29):
before from other people'swalk and experience and journey.
But also from our own.
The minute we speak it, itbecomes real and we have now a choice
to own it or not.
So groups are coming and theyare on the horizon.
If you haven't already signedup to be part of our community and
get the newsletter, it will becoming out.
(30:50):
There will be a QR code onthat newsletter that will allow people
to sign up for a group and, orI'm sorry, not sign up for a group.
We're trying to gauge reallythe interest level of the people
that are part of SGI community.
So whether or not you feellike you have the background and
(31:12):
the experience to lead a groupand also whether you would be willing
to or be interested inparticipating in one.
So it's a form, it's a QR codethat will take you to that form.
You can fill it out, we won'tspam you, we won't use information
against you in any way, shapeor form.
But if as things develop inyour area locally, then you'll have
(31:36):
the opportunity to check thegroup out and find out what it's
all about and what it's likeand the people that are there and,
and everything that goes alongwith it.
Okay, so that's one.
The newsletter is there.
Now what is on the horizon?
I can actually see it.
It's not just a speck, is we are.
I'm going to be introducing anE course that can be found on sgi-net.org
(32:03):
that is on the journey fromShame to Grace.
And it is a 20 part series andit will be available, Lord willing.
And we've got a little bit ofbeta testing to do yet, but it will
be willing hopefully sometimein February or early March.
(32:23):
Whatever it takes to get thebest version of the videos and everything
else available out to you, itwill come with a discussion guide.
So if you want to go throughit with a group of people, you are
more than welcome to do thatas well.
And it is a look inside of myclassroom and how I teach and what
(32:44):
I'm teaching about it, butalso the content as I have been reminded
over and over again of howjust how intrusive the content can
be, even though I'm notgearing it or pointing it at anybody.
I think that's God's way ofhunting you down and saying maybe
you can unplush from thematrix of shame in our world and
(33:06):
learn to live in the sunshineof my grace and have the freedom
that you've always longed for.
So keep your eyes peeled Signup for the SGI community.
You can sign up withoutgetting the newsletter.
If you sign in and actuallyengage the community itself, you
(33:28):
will get a newsletter one wayor the other.
You don't have to have anaccess level.
We have a student and then wehave a basic and a all access which
really contributes andsupports the Ministry of sgi.
We are a nonprofitorganization here in Colorado and
if you are so inclined to wantto support our efforts in terms of
(33:52):
outreach to the Gen Z and anyother generation that wants to find
freedom but also wants to findauthenticity and being known, that's
the place to go, really there.
You can also keep an eye onour silent retreats which are coming
up.
They are limited to just CCUstudents at this point, but we will
(34:15):
find ways to maybe perhaps puton other retreats that people outside
of CCU can go.
We again will probably no, I'mnot going to say that probably, but
more likely have another formfor you to sign up for the silent
retreat and to indicate yourinterest and where you're from and
(34:38):
everything like that.
That would allow us then toconnect you up either with a location
near you or to have you fly inand enjoy and experience the Colorado
landscape and sunsets andsunrises, but also to enjoy silence
(34:59):
and solitude and what itbrings into our lives in really pretty
remarkable ways.
So all that to say if youpartner with us to help us with the
scholarship fund to make itpossible for people to go to silent
retreats, whether that'sstudents or other folks, you can
(35:19):
certainly send or donate onthe website under the Donate tab,
or if you'd rather send it tous, a physical check.
You can do that to P.O.
box 322, Eastlake, Colorado 80614.
And that is it for today.
Thanks so much for joining me.
I look forward to the nexttime we meet, which is probably going
(35:43):
to be in about a month,realistically, and I will come loaded
for bear to talk about avariety of issues that have hit the
culture in one way or another.
We're heading into some prettybig cultural changes with the inauguration
and anything else that comesout of that.
I'm not going to be talkingpolitics, but I am going to be talking
(36:04):
about living and living lifeand embracing the the realities of
loss in our lives throughoutany given day or week or year or
whatever that might be.
So until that time, thanks somuch for joining me and I will see
you next time.
Love you later.
(36:25):
Bye.
(37:05):
Sa Sa.
Foreign.
(00:22):
Everybody to another episodeof Unscripted, the podcast Collected
wisdom of Life, living and sorrow.
And it is, as the nameimplies, very unscripted.
I get a wild hair aboutsomething and I decide that it's
time to share it with everyone.
(00:44):
And for good or for ill,that's what you end up getting.
So welcome to the new year.
Yes, I am.
19 minute.
19 minutes.
Wow, 19 days late, which isvery fitting.
And so here we go into a new year.
And I wanted to take anopportunity to share with you the
(01:09):
opportunity I had on 2 January.
So the new year was reallyvery young and I was invited to be
a guest on the Boundless showhosted by Lisa Anderson down in Colorado
Springs.
And it is a podcast andbroadcast both that is geared toward
(01:35):
20 and 30 somethings.
And so I was invited to comeon the show and talk a little bit
about the Seasons of OurGrief, my book that is just a year
old.
And so that's what this is.
And you will have theopportunity to listen in on the conversation.
(01:57):
And then when we finish withthat, then I'll be back to give you
a few special announcementsthat I think is gonna be exciting
and interesting for all of you.
So until then, enjoy theconversation and I will talk to you
on the backside of it.
(02:18):
Well, friends, happy New Year.
As I already said at the topof the show, we are squarely into
2025 and what better time totalk about.
Uh, so I'm going to introduceyou to our culture segment guest
today.
His name is Dr.
Ray Mitch and he is the authorof the Seasons of Our Grief, Embracing
(02:40):
the Journey.
And you're probably like,well, hey, what's up with that?
Or many of you are probablylike, oh, I'm so grateful for this
because we just came through aholiday season.
It is probably one of the moregrief filled seasons in our calendar
year when people maybe get hitby grief in a number of different
ways.
You may have celebratedChristmas without a family member
(03:01):
there.
You may have anticipated something.
You may have walked throughsome kind of a sickness or some kind
of a loss in another sense.
And so this is a greatopportunity as we look to a new year
to process what we have walkedthrough, even some of the things
that maybe we don't know aboutyet, because again, we have to have
good truths around this andunderstand what God's role is in
(03:24):
the process.
And so, Ray, welcome to theBoundless Show.
It's my pleasure.
Thanks for inviting me.
Well, this is so great for us.
Now you are a professor ofpsychology at Colorado.
Colorado Christian University.
You are professional, licensedprofessional counselor.
You've been practicing for,let's just say a while.
You look young.
(03:45):
You don't look like an oldster.
Okay.
You're seasoned, you're.
Well, my beard ages quickerthan I do.
There you go.
So you're an expert in this.
You actually, I'm reallycurious about this.
You actually, it says youfounded a nonprofit called Stained
Glass International, which isactually squarely targeted toward
Gen Z.
Yeah.
It's right in your deskdemographic, probably.
(04:07):
Because your connection withcollege students and all the stuff
that you're learning from them.
So, you guys, he has a realheart for you.
We talk mostly here to you 20and 30 somethings, the college student,
the young professional.
And so anyway, yeah, so he's,he's legit.
He's.
He has his PhD in counseling psychology.
(04:28):
And again, we're going to betalking about the book that he wrote
titled the Seasons of Our Grief.
And so I want to start out,Ray, with a little bit of your own
story because you have nowwalked with a personal injury for
what is decades at this point,for sure.
And, and I think that's sointeresting because immediately when
(04:49):
we think of grief, I thinkespecially a lot of younger adults
think of someone dying, butthere are a lot of griefs that we
have to process and walk through.
So talk a little bit aboutwhere your life was kind of turned
upside down as a result.
Yeah, yeah.
I was minding my own businessand on my roof and I stepped on the
ladder and me and the concretemat and I had a head injury and a
(05:12):
broken femur and that all gotpatched up relatively easily.
But I was left with pain.
My head pain.
And it's not a headache.
A lot of people say, well,it's a headache.
No, it's not a headache.
It's like somebody put icepick in your ear and squirrels it
around in there.
And so I bounced from doctorto doctor.
(05:34):
I lost my job.
I really didn't have much of ajob at the time and found it difficult
just to try to find my footing.
And I was tired.
I was tired of getting pokedwith needles and everything else.
And I really just gave up.
I gave up.
And then a friend found adoctor that works with pain management.
(05:59):
And I actually, and mystudents like to call me a cyborg
because I actually have apacemaker for pain in my head.
Wow.
And that has made mefunctional, essentially.
And so then it's trying to rebuild.
So the seasons I talk about, Ihave walked through and I'm in the
(06:20):
midst of it, I've had losseswithin the last, let's see, five,
six years now.
One just last March.
And I get to watch what Iwrote, which is really inconvenient.
But I think there's a lot ofthat that, like, I put in my bio.
(06:40):
I kind of got ambushed by Godin the midst of my pain.
And that's where a lot of mylearning ends up coming from, is
that.
And so it's captured, I think,in the book as well, and the character.
And it's like all of a suddenyou're like, oh, C.S.
lewis said, pain is God's megaphone.
(07:00):
And now I'm walking that out.
And none of us go, you know,the one thing I need in my life is
more pain or more grief.
We're not searching for it,but it is something that comes to
us.
All we're gonna experience asa result of a broken world, a sinful
world.
We're gonna experience lossand pain and hardship.
And so what I think is reallyinteresting and the reason you have
titled the book the Seasons ofOur Grief is we are prone to think
(07:24):
that grief is a linear processof just, I need to this.
I need to white knuckle it.
I need to.
Surely, you know, this too,will pass.
And so we're just hopeful thatevery day is better and better until
finally we're like, cool, it's done.
We're good.
You know, let's just pack itaway and be done.
(07:45):
But you're saying that that isnot the case at all.
And so I would love for you to.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthese seasons, because, again, we
don't want grief or loss orpain to hit us like the flu.
I often use that analogy ofjust, like, I'm just waiting for
life to happen to me.
Anytime we can have someintentionality toward it, it's good.
(08:06):
But when you're talking aboutseasons, give us an understanding
of what you mean.
Yeah.
The prevailing knowledge isstill based on Kubler Ross's stages.
And that's what tempts us into linearity.
You know, we say, well, I gotthrough the denial stage.
(08:26):
Check.
Let's move on to the next one.
And the longer I've been incounseling, the longer I've seen
my own process.
It runs in cycles.
And so I have looked at andread all of the material out there
on grief.
And probably the one that ismost grounded in our development
(08:47):
as humans is one that is builton tasks.
So you, like winter, you havecertain things to accomplish.
Like in winter, Your work isto accept the reality of what's happened.
But each season has adifferent tool.
You don't use the same tools.
I'm not going to use mysnowblower to get the leaves off
(09:10):
my lawn.
And so our temptation inthinking linearly makes it time limited
instead of how we experienceit throughout our lives.
And, you know, I think KublerRoss made the comment about we live
purposeless lives because wereally don't think we're ever going
(09:31):
to die.
And so grappling with deathand grief is grappling with life.
And that's probably one of thefirst things my students end up finding
out.
It's like, I thought this wasgoing to be the most depressing class
I've ever had.
And it's like, no, we'retalking about life here.
And if I can have some measureof depth about that, then I can invest
(09:55):
in what I got right now.
So it starts with winter,where everything's dead, literally
and figuratively.
And then it moves into spring,where our feelings awake and we start
to feel things.
It's like, I want to be backin winter, and then beyond spring,
then summer.
And now we get a rhythm, andwe think life's getting back to normal,
(10:18):
but then we get hijacked nowand again by stuff from the winter.
And here in Colorado, spring'snot safe.
You know, we get 34 inches ofsnow in April.
That's just wrong.
But.
And then once we get beyondsummer, we move into fall.
And fall is when all thecolors come back.
And so many people I've talkedto who are grieving and go through
(10:42):
this process and are willingto just lean into it, they're saying,
the color is coming back intomy life.
That's fall.
But we all know what's coming next.
And then anniversaries inwinter and so on and so forth.
So it creates a sense, I think.
And that's why I kind of gritmy teeth when people talk stages,
(11:05):
because it creates thisexpectation that, well, I get through
them all.
I'm done, right?
And it's like, well, unless.
No, yeah, no, that makes sense.
I think also one of the.
And maybe this is reflected insome of the seasons, too.
We always want to look around,and whatever we're walking through,
we want to compare it to whatothers have walked through or what
(11:28):
we should, you know, oh, well,when my friend lost her grandma,
this is how it played out.
So that's what it should looklike for me.
And, you know, again, there'sprobably someone listening who their
favorite grandma was gone thispast Christmas and it was the first
Christmas without them.
So they're kind of like, whatam I expecting?
What does this look like?
(11:48):
And what is the danger, wouldyou say, in comparison?
Well, first of all, how are wetempted to compare?
And what's the danger in that?
Yeah, I think the comparisongame is devastating because it robs
us of living the life we have,not the one we don't have.
And so the comparison thing,ultimately, whenever I compare, I'm
(12:13):
always going to lose.
Somebody's always going tohave it better, Somebody's always
going to be doing it better.
And if that's the case and Iapply it to grief, then I'm in real
trouble versus where I'm at.
And so the comparison issue isvery much a big one.
And people have such uniqueexperiences when it comes to grieving
(12:36):
that it looks like winterlasts four weeks and then other people,
winter lasts for six months.
And it's like, well, shouldn'tI be done by now?
And that word should is a killer.
Because again, should isusually a comparison.
And so I think the biggestchallenge is, like I say in the book,
(13:00):
is kind of finding otherpeople that are willing to live grief
and live life as they have it,not as they wish it should be, and
talk that through and bring it out.
Because I can't fightsomething I don't name.
Yeah, that's good.
So to that end, though, itmakes me curious.
How can a person determinewhether or not they're in a cycle?
(13:24):
They're just doing the thing.
They can't compare their storywith someone else's.
They may think, oh, this issomething that happened three years
ago.
Why am I still dealing with this?
What's the difference betweenthat something just being revisited
and something truly beingdebilitating, where they might actually
need to get some help beyondwhere they are?
I mean, it's come to the pointwhere they might actually be losing
(13:46):
out on some life because of this.
Yeah, and so much of that is,you know, psychology we refer to
as pre morbid.
It's so much of that is whatyou bring with you into the loss.
And so if I struggle withdepression before then, I'm probably
going to have it even more so,which means I better find some help.
(14:07):
I need to talk to somebodyabout it.
See, winter ends up being verycomforting because everything is
quiet and I'm numb and I don'tfeel a lot and I'm good.
And then we get to spring andeverything wakes up.
And so then like, depressionor anxiety seems to go into Overdrive.
(14:27):
And when it gets to that pointwhere it's dominating all of our
days and the language islanguage of grief, but it's still
anxiety and depression that Ineed to see somebody.
On the other hand, there's alot of times that I spend where I
spend all of my time.
And I've said this so manytimes, I spent all my time normalizing
(14:48):
the experience.
It's like, no, that's a normal thing.
So there's waxes and waningsof depression or discouragement or
whatever, and then there's not.
And that's grief.
And unfortunately, today we'vepathologized grief.
Right, right.
And that really gets in the way.
(15:10):
Yeah.
And it's interesting because Ithink, you know, again, we think
of grief as a solitarypursuit, like something that.
Oh, well, I'm, you know, whereI referenced white knuckling it.
I'm just gonna.
No one has experienced thislike I have.
You know, we don't necessarilyreach out to others, but I think
it can be tricky because.
(15:30):
Ray, I'd love for you to talka little bit about it seems like
either we, well meaning peoplewill offer platitudes that are just
not helpful in grief, youknow, comes to mind when someone
loses a loved one.
Well, you know, now heaven hasan angel.
I mean, some things are justnot even true.
Some things are true, butmaybe not helpful.
Other things are just not even true.
(15:52):
But this idea of there areeither platitudes or this idea that
if we just wait it out, kindof the well, which is almost a platitude,
the time will heal all wounds.
What would you say?
Where do you see some of thosemost egregiously?
And what is a better way for afriend or a family member to walk
with someone towards anyseason of grief, quite frankly?
(16:15):
Sure, yeah.
No, I think Christians aren'tunique, but we have more ammunition
for our platitudes.
And I call them ghost sentences.
It sounds like it's helpful.
But the person who's grieving,I mean, think about Job, Job's friends.
Unfortunately, a lot of usChristians are like his friends.
(16:36):
And we're looking for anexplanation for the disasters that
has befallen him.
And so I think to walk throughis to live with that in the person
and not try to correct.
All of grief is about connection.
It is not about correction.
And when we start to correctit and say, like you said, you know,
(17:01):
they're in a better place forsomebody who's grieving, like where
I've been, it's like I Don't care.
I don't care.
There is a hole in my heartthat will never be filled.
Now what?
So there's that.
And then the time heals all wounds.
That again, my head explodesbecause time does nothing other than
(17:22):
either it passes or I dosomething with the time and make
it count for healing and be apart of it.
There's a lot of big.
There's a huge paradox ingrief because we want to run from
it.
And the way to get.
Get through it is to lean into it.
And everything in us isscreaming to go the other direction.
(17:44):
So true.
Because my dad passed away of cancer.
And I remember during thattime you could tell some people were
very reluctant to talk to meabout my dad.
They thought if I don't sayanything, maybe I don't want to bring
up something bad.
I don't.
But actually share.
Sharing memories of my dad andlaughing about funny things my dad
said and reminiscing was sohelpful for me.
(18:06):
So I had to like, tell people,no, do tell that story about my dad
or do.
I don't wanna act like he wasnever here.
It felt like it was almostdishonoring of him to act like he
was no longer that he hadnever been around.
And so that is so helpful.
But even getting back to Job'sstory, I think sometimes it's helpful
just to be that person who'sgoing to be present.
(18:28):
Maybe you don't have to have abunch of words.
I don't know if there's a.
If there's wisdom in that, but.
Oh, there is.
I mean, apparently there areMitchisms at ccu and one of them
is people desire our presencemore than they desire our profundity.
Okay.
And that's what that is.
Be present with me.
(18:48):
Because Job's friends weren't.
They created distance by allthe stuff that they wanted to say.
And we get reallyuncomfortable with Job stamping his
feet and demanding an audienceand everything else.
It's like that's what grief does.
And you see C.S.
lewis's story, he really goesafter God early.
And he's saying when you needhim the most, all you get is a double
(19:12):
bolted door.
And that kind of honesty, Idon't think it's going to take God
off guard.
Sure.
And even if you look at Jesusand Lazarus.
Lazarus, two sisters both saythe same thing, but do it very differently.
Martha gets in his chest andstarts spoken at him.
And Mary says the same thing,but falls at his feet both in grief.
(19:37):
And then Jesus weeps.
Sure.
Well, I think one of the otherchallenges or one of the other traps
we can easily fall into isthis idea of kind of analysis paralysis,
getting into all the what ifs.
Well, would this have happened?
What if I'd done this differently?
What if I'd engaged in this way?
What if I had, you know, takenXYZ medication or researched more,
(20:01):
whatever, or my.
I remember again, thinking ofmy dad.
I was determined I was goingto juice him out of cancer, you know,
And I read.
I've read a few books.
I'd heard that it had workedfor some people.
And I'm like, I bought theChampion juicer.
I went after it.
I'm like, this will be.
And I'm naturally.
I know you're shocked to hearthis, Dr.
Ray, but I am naturally acontrol freak.
(20:22):
So I know it's shocking.
It's shocking.
But I was just like, here, I'mgoing to do the things.
And it was me just saying, Ireally don't trust God with this,
so I need to step in and do this.
But how can we get blindsidedby the what ifs and get caught in
that?
Yeah, I think it happens mostin spring.
And we're trying to make senseof reality.
(20:42):
And so we write the story, right?
And we write the story, and wewrite the story with a possible scenario.
And so we really hateunfinished stories as humans.
We absolutely hate them.
And so that means then thatI'm going to find a way to complete
(21:02):
the circle, the story circle.
And with that, then there's my answer.
You know, if I had, then theywouldn't have.
And so those kinds of thingsgoes to your point.
It's like I've got to controlthe ending outcome here.
And the way that I do that isI reframe it so that it's back on
(21:26):
me.
Because then I know who to blame.
Then I know who to go after.
Can't go after the personwho's died, which ultimately, sooner
or later we're going to do.
And that, you know, my daddied when I was 12.
It took me 10 years.
I did all the wrong things.
And I finally got around tosaying, I am really ticked that you
left.
(21:47):
Well, congratulations.
You just are now grieving.
And that's what it takes, I think.
And so we get so afraid of ouranger that we're gonna say something
wrong that we cease to be human.
Sure, sure.
I know one of my things that Ihad to walk through because I also,
not too long ago, my mompassed away and she had dementia,
(22:10):
you know, older.
And I'm the youngest of six kids.
So both my parents were older,but she.
Her last three months, she wasin a memory care fac facility.
And her.
Her kind of downhill slide waspretty fast.
Just a few days, you know, andwe knew it was coming, but I'd been
with her that whole evening.
So I went home to sleep andgot the call at 5am that she had
(22:32):
passed away.
And immediately my what if was.
I should have been there.
I should have been holding herhand, singing hymns, praying for
her and all of that.
And one of my dear friendssaid one of the most helpful things
to me.
And she said, lisa, the oneperson who needed to be there was
there and that's Jesus.
And again, I think it'shelpful for us to put whatever season
(22:53):
we're in to put our headsaround God, who can do all the things,
quote, unquote, fix anythingif there's anything we're doing wrong,
anything we feel like, youknow, it's just like he holds it,
you know, and it can't, man.
I mean, the blame, you know, Iblamed myself for a couple months
(23:13):
probably for not being in theright place and not doing the right
thing.
So I think that is so, so helpful.
Well, I would love for you, Dr.
Mitch, to kind of, in our lastminute or so here, is there anything.
There might be peoplelistening who don't even know that
they're grieving.
Maybe they've stuffedsomething they haven't acknowledged.
They thought they quote Godover something.
(23:34):
Whatever.
What does it look like toenter intentionally into this process
and maybe ask the right questions?
What.
What should a person be awareof as they may be experiencing grief
or may need to bring somethingup that hasn't been addressed.
Y.
I think probably the one thingthat comes to mind is that there's
usually situations like in amovie that I have an abundant reaction
(23:58):
to that's way out of proportion.
And that's usually a telltalethat there's a well that I've capped
and it's pushing and I startfeeling it.
So a lot of times that's, youknow, even the productive part of
grief is that you move into it.
You watch a movie.
Well, we say, well, that's sad.
(24:18):
Well, no, but it lets thewound weep, if you will.
And that's all part of the growth.
So I think situations thatwould remind us.
And then being ambushed ofemotions that don't make sense and
just talking to people andsuddenly getting choked up, and it's
like, what's up with that?
And see, I think generallypeople don't ask that Question.
(24:41):
They say, oh, this is inconvenient.
Or they apologize for their tears.
It's like, like, what's goingon with that?
Or they'll say, oh, I'm justan emotional person.
Or I'm just.
They're gonna make somethingup, you know, explain it.
So.
Or other people will say,you're really an emotional person.
Now I'm mad because now youjust told me.
Now don't tell me what I'm feeling.
It goes as sad as mad.
Yeah, right, exactly.
(25:02):
So.
Well, such great insights here.
And folks, I want you to knowthe book again that we've been talking
about is the Seasons of Our Grief.
I've been talking to Dr.
Ray Mitch.
We wanna make a copy of hisbook available to you for a gift
of any amount.
We are doing that again wherewe always love getting our guests
resources into your hands.
(25:22):
So how do you do that?
Go to Boundless.org, searchfor 883 this week's episode.
You'll see the book cover there.
You just click on it.
You give a gift, whatever youcan afford in the new year to Boundless.
And we're going to send a copyof the book as our thank you to you
for being part of theBoundless family.
And this might be somethingyou need.
You might need to gift this to someone.
(25:42):
You might need to get it andread it with someone so you can make
it happen.
And, And I hope that you.
I really trul.
Hope that you will.
So, Dr.
Mitch, thanks again for beinga guest here.
It's been a pleasure.
All right, well, I sure hopethat you enjoyed that little conversation.
It was not nearly enough time,needless to say, in terms of all
(26:03):
that I have included in thebook, but all the things that I tend
to teach about in the griefand loss class at ccu and we touched
on things in terms of each ofthe seasons and it had to be very
condensed.
And it's a little frustratingwhen I live my life by an hour and
(26:25):
15 minute intervals in termsof my teaching and questions and
discussion and other thingslike that.
So that gives you a sample.
Maybe it sets the stage foryou for the year to come in terms
of the things that you mightneed to look at more closely.
(26:45):
I don't think that we can livelife without the subtext of sorrow.
And we have losses all thetime and we don't put those in the
same category, if you will, aswe put it in the category of losing
somebody we love.
And I think in some respectsthat's kind of our way of containing
it and controlling it ultimately.
(27:08):
And so that's a bigger conversation.
I will come back around to itat another point in time, I'm sure.
Now, for why you hung around,maybe, I don't know.
But you can find everythingyou want to find out about unscripted
and about the other podcasts,the Outpost Podcast, just go to sgi-net.org
(27:30):
and that is the home for notonly the SGI community, information
about our silent retreats andall the other resources that are
available to you throughoutSGI or Stained Glass International.
So you can follow us on thethree media, social media outlets.
At Instagram, it'sSGIinternational, and in Facebook
(27:55):
it is Stained Glass International.
All one word, lowercase.
And then of course, if you'reon LinkedIn and you want to be, check
out some of the episodes thatI have put up on LinkedIn, you can
do that as well.
The address there is Dr.
Mitch.
Period.
Nope, not period in the name,just Dr.
(28:17):
Mitch.
Don't forget to spell my lastname correctly or you won't find
me.
So some announcements Imentioned to you, first and foremost,
what you will find on thepodcast is an opportunity that, if
you are interested, to getinvolved in a group of people that
are talking about some of theissues that I'm talking about here.
(28:40):
And this is kind of apotpourri of issues.
It's not just about sorrow,it's about a lot of other things.
But if you're Interested, oneof SGI's major missions is to develop
and cultivate communities ofthe soul or outposts for the soul
(29:02):
or for the heart, and to trainup leaders to be able to lead that
competently.
Not ones that have an agendaand don't know they have an agenda.
The ones that can enter in andtalk to you about doing life.
And if you haven't ever bumpedinto Jesus before, maybe you can
(29:23):
have the opportunity to dothat just in the relationships.
And that doesn't mean that's aprimary agenda.
It isn't necessarily theprimary agenda, although it may draw
those kind of people together.
And everybody needs to learn alittle bit about walking in the steps
of Jesus in terms ofrelationships, in terms of friendships,
(29:45):
in terms of the issues of theday, all of those things.
And it is a place to workthose things out.
It's not the challenge, ofcourse, is everybody really shies
away from the vulnerability.
So we find ways to hide behindscripture or behind discussions on
(30:08):
academic subjects or subjectsjust about our knowledge, not about
our hearts.
And that's really what theseleaders are being developed over
time to do is to direct us towalk the landscape of our hearts
with one another in community.
Because it's there that wewill find out things we never heard
(30:29):
before from other people'swalk and experience and journey.
But also from our own.
The minute we speak it, itbecomes real and we have now a choice
to own it or not.
So groups are coming and theyare on the horizon.
If you haven't already signedup to be part of our community and
get the newsletter, it will becoming out.
(30:50):
There will be a QR code onthat newsletter that will allow people
to sign up for a group and, orI'm sorry, not sign up for a group.
We're trying to gauge reallythe interest level of the people
that are part of SGI community.
So whether or not you feellike you have the background and
(31:12):
the experience to lead a groupand also whether you would be willing
to or be interested inparticipating in one.
So it's a form, it's a QR codethat will take you to that form.
You can fill it out, we won'tspam you, we won't use information
against you in any way, shapeor form.
But if as things develop inyour area locally, then you'll have
(31:36):
the opportunity to check thegroup out and find out what it's
all about and what it's likeand the people that are there and,
and everything that goes alongwith it.
Okay, so that's one.
The newsletter is there.
Now what is on the horizon?
I can actually see it.
It's not just a speck, is we are.
I'm going to be introducing anE course that can be found on sgi-net.org
(32:03):
that is on the journey fromShame to Grace.
And it is a 20 part series andit will be available, Lord willing.
And we've got a little bit ofbeta testing to do yet, but it will
be willing hopefully sometimein February or early March.
(32:23):
Whatever it takes to get thebest version of the videos and everything
else available out to you, itwill come with a discussion guide.
So if you want to go throughit with a group of people, you are
more than welcome to do thatas well.
And it is a look inside of myclassroom and how I teach and what
(32:44):
I'm teaching about it, butalso the content as I have been reminded
over and over again of howjust how intrusive the content can
be, even though I'm notgearing it or pointing it at anybody.
I think that's God's way ofhunting you down and saying maybe
you can unplush from thematrix of shame in our world and
(33:06):
learn to live in the sunshineof my grace and have the freedom
that you've always longed for.
So keep your eyes peeled Signup for the SGI community.
You can sign up withoutgetting the newsletter.
If you sign in and actuallyengage the community itself, you
(33:28):
will get a newsletter one wayor the other.
You don't have to have anaccess level.
We have a student and then wehave a basic and a all access which
really contributes andsupports the Ministry of sgi.
We are a nonprofitorganization here in Colorado and
if you are so inclined to wantto support our efforts in terms of
(33:52):
outreach to the Gen Z and anyother generation that wants to find
freedom but also wants to findauthenticity and being known, that's
the place to go, really there.
You can also keep an eye onour silent retreats which are coming
up.
They are limited to just CCUstudents at this point, but we will
(34:15):
find ways to maybe perhaps puton other retreats that people outside
of CCU can go.
We again will probably no, I'mnot going to say that probably, but
more likely have another formfor you to sign up for the silent
retreat and to indicate yourinterest and where you're from and
(34:38):
everything like that.
That would allow us then toconnect you up either with a location
near you or to have you fly inand enjoy and experience the Colorado
landscape and sunsets andsunrises, but also to enjoy silence
(34:59):
and solitude and what itbrings into our lives in really pretty
remarkable ways.
So all that to say if youpartner with us to help us with the
scholarship fund to make itpossible for people to go to silent
retreats, whether that'sstudents or other folks, you can
(35:19):
certainly send or donate onthe website under the Donate tab,
or if you'd rather send it tous, a physical check.
You can do that to P.O.
box 322, Eastlake, Colorado 80614.
And that is it for today.
Thanks so much for joining me.
I look forward to the nexttime we meet, which is probably going
(35:43):
to be in about a month,realistically, and I will come loaded
for bear to talk about avariety of issues that have hit the
culture in one way or another.
We're heading into some prettybig cultural changes with the inauguration
and anything else that comesout of that.
I'm not going to be talkingpolitics, but I am going to be talking
(36:04):
about living and living lifeand embracing the the realities of
loss in our lives throughoutany given day or week or year or
whatever that might be.
So until that time, thanks somuch for joining me and I will see
you next time.
Love you later.
(36:25):
Bye.
(37:05):
Sa Sa.
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