August 14, 2025 • 38 mins
We invest so much time in building a portfolio of skills, experiences, a network of friends, a body of meaningful work - that many of us overlook the critical work of understanding and accepting ourselves. In this episode, J.B. and Molly talk to Helen Min of True Ventures about the impact of avoiding that work and the powerful force-multiplier for good it can be in our lives.
"It wasn't like one day I woke up and found my mojo, and then I started to join podcasts like this and talk about it. It was a process of finding where can I start out with the most confidence possible." - Helen Min
Watch the full video version on YouTube or Spotify.
Follow Helen on X or LinkedIn and check out the Great Chat Podcast at GreatChatPod.com.
Follow Unserious in your podcast app, at unserious.com, and on Instagram and Threads at @unserious.fun.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
This is Unserious on my adult life, my career, my
relationships and asking thequestion that David Byrne asked
itself how did I get here?
Now, let me be clear I love whoI am, but I'm definitely not
who I thought I would be when Ifirst started out.
And somewhere along the way Irealized that I had to go
spelunking into the depths ofmyself to find a wellspring of
(00:42):
confidence.
To paraphrase Austin Powers, Ihad to go reclaim my mojo.
I'm JB Skelton, here with myco-host, molly McMahon.
Hey everyone.
And we're joined today by HelenMin.
Helen is the founder andgeneral partner of Articulate, a
pre-seed venture capital firmthat invests in founders
(01:03):
building enterprise, softwareand fintech companies.
She's also a venture partner atTrue Ventures and a co-founder
at Phenomenal Ventures.
As if that wasn't enough, she'salso the co-host of an
excellent venture-themed podcastcalled Great Chat, which is
available everywhere that youfind podcasts.
Helen, you and I grabbed luncha few months back and the
(01:25):
conversation ended up going tothe journey that we both took,
to trusting our guts, betting onourselves and how we lead with
integrity, and we want to bringthat conversation to our
listeners.
So here we are, Helen.
Welcome to Unserious.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So this conversation is really about understanding
your groove, your style, yourvalues, your voice, and we
talked a lot about skills andvalues and experiences with
young people, but we don't talka lot about self-confidence and
developing self-assurance, and Ifeel like it's I feel like we
(02:07):
talk about it like it's anattribute that you're just born
with, like your eye color.
But did did you always feelconfident in your career path?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
No, um, and I think that's what we're here to talk
about today.
So so, jb, you and I workedtogether at Facebook long ago
when it was called Facebook, andso I was at Facebook from 2008
to 2013.
And in those early days I thinkI was employee like 600
(02:38):
something or other.
You know I was 25 and, um, veryimpressionable.
Uh, I think you know we, cheryl, had joined a CEO just a couple
of months before I had joined,and it was an incredible
experience to have, you know,basically the most powerful
person you know sort of uh, inin the business organization,
(03:00):
right, and the number two to theCEO, uh, be a woman.
I think that was a rareopportunity experience
especially at that time, and Ithink that, outside of Cheryl,
you know we had a couple ofexamples of women in leadership
roles, but not a lot, and soCheryl was really like the one.
And when you're 25 and you'refiguring out who you are and how
(03:21):
to navigate this organizationand your career and the world,
no, so I absolutely was notconfident.
But I think, more importantly,when you're 25 and you're
figuring out who you are and howto navigate this organization
and your career and the world,no, so I absolutely was not
confident.
But I think, more importantly,and like, looking back and I can
say this now, I didn't reallyknow who I was and so I had this
feeling like everyone else knewwho they were.
Everyone else was so confident,like, why don't I have anything
to contribute?
(03:41):
I don't have anything to say?
I actually remember very vividly, you know Cheryl would host
these women's dinners at herhouse and she'd invite, you know
, a handful of women fromFacebook and some from Google,
um, and also some women from GSBand other people that that she
was connected to, and there'dalways be like a really
incredible speaker, um, and Iremember leaving the events
obviously like very inspired andall of that and feeling very
(04:03):
grateful that I could beincluded for the evening, but
also like very hard on myself,like why didn't I show up with
more confidence?
Why didn't I have anythinginteresting to contribute to the
conversation?
Am I just such a dud?
And I just remember that's howI would feel when I would leave,
and I think one.
There were some reallyextraordinary women there who
(04:23):
were extremely confident and soaccomplished in all these things
.
But I will just admit to youright now, it took me a lot
longer to gain my confidence andto, I think, experience enough
things in my career for me toreally feel like I had something
to show up with, and that issomething that only recently I
have like accepted about myself,if that makes sense, right,
(04:44):
like I think even you know, whenI think back to 2021, I was
fundraising for my first fundand I just felt like you know,
I've had this operating career,I've worked at some of these
incredible companies and I justI'm having such a difficult time
owning it.
You know, I either the impostersyndrome, sort of like overtake
me.
(05:05):
There were women who were 10years younger than me, who had
like half the operatingexperience you know, worked at
fewer like incredible, uh, highgrowth startups that I had who
were raising out, you know, whowere going out to raise funds
very successfully, and they justfelt they looked like they were
so comfortable in their skinand I couldn't figure out how to
get there.
And it's only recently whereI'm like you know what.
(05:25):
It just took me longer, but Ithink I'm there now and I'm so
happy that I can be 40 when Irealized that, and not older,
because I still think.
I've got a lot of life left inme and so I kind of like let
myself off the hook for notfiguring it out sooner, if that
makes sense.
And the second I did that sortof it started a new, sort of,
you know, more authenticconfidence that I get to
(05:46):
experience now.
So how did I show up reallyearly in my career?
I mean, let's be honest, like,especially in those early days,
like the talent density atplaces like that is so high, so
hard to really think of anybodywho has not, you know, shared
with me at some point that theyweren't, you know, also
intimidated or they also didn'thave, you know, a flavor of
imposter syndrome.
(06:07):
So I think everybody was goingthrough that at the same time.
It just showed up differentlyand people, people, um, sort of
uh, you know, did with it whatthey would, but like for me, I
just took a lot longer and Ithink that, um, there were so
many things I call it theformative years right, cause it
was.
(06:28):
You weren't fresh out of college, but you were still you're not
like a leader here, you knowyou're still figuring out how to
be a leader, you're figuringout how you want to show up in
the world overall and it was someaningful to be there and to be
influenced by so many people,and I think that a sort of
management belief that I hold tothis day is that I think you
are disproportionately impactedby the managers you have earlier
in your career than you arelater, and so I took that really
(06:51):
seriously.
So later, you know, when I wasin my 30s and I was managing big
teams at Dropbox and Plaid andCora, I remembered that and I'm
like there's a 25 year oldversion of me, you know on this
team and how I am.
Their manager is going toreally stick with them and
really influence the paths thatthey take, and so I think that's
(07:12):
something that I try to recycleinto how it would show up for
me later, just remembering howimpactful some of those early
managers I had at Facebook wereto help me sort of figure out my
journey and and find the earlystages of mojo.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
How did that like were you?
Cause?
When I knew you there, youseemed like I thought you were
very confident and, um, and itwas like it was this like?
Was this like a faking it toyou feel it kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
You know it's, it's so funny Like I get that comment
all the time.
I think that I'm one of thosepeople that the more nervous and
the more anxious and the moreinsecure I feel the projection
is it gets more serious.
I love that we're on a podcastcalled unserious right now, but
I can project like a level ofintensity and seriousness, um
(08:06):
like, and it's it'sproportionate to the amount of
like discomfort that I feel.
Does that make sense?
And I think for a lot of people, and especially women, when
they get nervous or they feelinsecure, you can see it more in
like stereotypical ways, likethey'll ramble on or you know
they'll have nervous energy orsomething like that.
I just sort of get very quietand very serious.
(08:28):
And then people, you know we'reall projecting on ourselves
People interpret that to mean,oh, she must be really confident
in what she's doing.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And I'll share a story from Dropbox actually.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
So I was at Dropbox 2014 to 16 and managing a pretty
large team and there was awoman who Amy Sherman.
She was my admin, and one thingthat she said that she likes to
do to sort of learn what it'slike to support someone is to
just ask people around theorganization.
(09:02):
You know, like, what they thinkthat person is like and sort of
like, how are you, what are youknown for?
And one of the first meetingswe had she said you know, helen,
something so interesting isthat everybody has remarked how
competent you are and you knowhow, how confident and smart and
all this things you know.
(09:23):
But there is this sense thatyou don't need any help.
Mm, hmm, I was like I don'tneed any help and I thought
about that for a second and I'mlike, oh my gosh, I need so much
help.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
What are we?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
talking about here, and it was the first time I
started to reflect on like that.
Oh okay, this is actually notserving me well and actually it
might be really not serving myteam, because my team members
right, because they work for meand they need to get their jobs
done through the organizationand a JB.
I mean, everybody knows that.
(09:58):
You know, success in a largeorganization is how many people
are going to help you.
Where's the flow of information?
You know how can you workcross-functionally?
Um, and if they're on my teamand people assume that we need
no help because we're doing sowell, that is bad.
So that was actually probably areally critical piece of
(10:19):
feedback that really made mereevaluate how I show up, and it
wasn't intentional, it's justsort of like my default.
I just get very serious Peoplecomment about me being very
polished and buttoned up.
It's just how my nervousnessshows up, and maybe you think
that's a good thing, but it hasserved me well.
(10:40):
Let's be clear.
I think, given the benefit ofthe doubt, that you know your
stuff and that you are preparedis good in many ways, but I
think in this way, where I thinkwhat makes the most successful
people successful is thateverybody gets behind them and
everybody wants to help them.
Right, and you have this senseof team and I wasn't really
(11:00):
exercising that and I was not,you know.
More importantly, helping myteam members benefit from
something like that.
So that was.
That was really critical pieceof the journey.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I'm curious like how do you ask for help?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, so this is where you know your work life
and your personal life.
Really you start to see theoverlap, right.
You can imagine if you'resomebody at work who doesn't ask
for help, you're probably oneof those people.
You know you've got people inyour life who, like, don't know
how to ask for help, don't knowhow to say what they need, and,
(11:37):
yeah, it's difficult, right, itcan create a lot of conflict
because then you're assuming, orthere's all this, you know,
sort of non-communication goingon and that's very inefficient.
And so for me, I know I am oneof those people who, I mean ever
since I was a kid, I just I wasnever comfortable asking for
help.
I think many people in my lifetoday would still describe me
that way and so my trick isreally to offer help and then
(11:58):
usually I mean 99% of the timepeople are going to say like,
well, how can I help you?
What are you working on?
What is there something?
And then I take them on that.
You know I take thatopportunity to vocalize because
you're you know you're you'rebasically you're creating an
invitation to, to to ask forhelp, right?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Offering it and you know what.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
It takes a little bit more work.
It means I have to do the workup front, but that's fine.
That's fine.
That's the way I'm going to doit.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
It works for me.
Yeah, and that reciprocity.
I think that's what eases.
Then folks can also ask you forhelp.
Coming on back Right, thinkabout these larger teams and you
create these cycles wherepeople can be a little bit safer
about asking questions, totallyReally explore their curiosity.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yes, and the way this shows up for me today is
literally like my investmentstrategy right.
I meet these founders at theearliest stages and I'm able to
help them.
I mean there's three types ofstories that founders at the
very, very earliest stages needhelp with.
The first is how do theyconvince the co-founder of their
dreams to join them?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
on this journey.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
The second is how do you find the first few design
partners to validate that thispath is worthwhile, this problem
is worthwhile solving?
And the third is how do youpitch your first institutional
investor to give you money?
And so I think, through mynetwork and you know the great
people that I'm able to find andwork with like I just offer
(13:24):
help and then through thatprocess of me helping them, I
actually really get to know whothey are.
And you know, my secret, afterinvesting in 58 companies at
early stages, is just that atthese stages you know when it's
so, so early and there's verylittle to underwrite, you're
just underwriting people.
And the best way to like reallyget to know somebody is
actually not through a pitchdeck, it's through working
(13:46):
alongside them, and so that isliterally how I make investments
and I love it, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I mean, I love thinking about that investment
approach and being really peoplefirst, Because when you are
early stage, you like everythingis emergent, you have to be
like learning fast, you have tobe trying new things, you have
to believe in yourself andthere's a high amount of like
vulnerability in that space, andso having an like having a VC
partner who's in it with you, umI think is really is really
(14:18):
powerful, and I that also makesme think that that togetherness
is probably leads to even, like,greater success of that
business and the fund, um,because of that, um deep
partnership.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well, it's, it's the trust right, and when you trust
somebody, like there'sinformation flow, there's people
coming to you with problems andnot sort of hiding them right,
being nervous about what youmight think.
And I think as an investor youknow you really want your
founders to be honest with youand bringing you along for the
ride as long as possible.
And something that I learned,you know, through my first fund,
(14:50):
where you know we were lookingat a lot of pitch decks and we
were trying to be thesis driveninvestors, is that, especially
during, like COVID, a couple ofyears after COVID, where a lot
of things were still remote, youknow, the thing that I liked,
the thing that I enjoyed theleast about investing was you
get a pitch deck from reallysparkly founders you know
founders with great resumes yousit through the pitch, you ask
(15:14):
questions.
They have the perfect answers toyour questions and then you
leave the Zoom and you're likewow, I have no more or less
conviction on this company thanI did before, and so, now that
there are, you know, yc YCombinator is so much bigger.
There's like a new AIaccelerator popping up every
single day.
These are like you know,they're, they're.
(15:35):
They offer many great things,but they're like pitch factories
.
They teach founders how tocreate the perfect pitch.
So once that becomes sort of alldemocratized right Like, once
all the pitch decks startlooking the same and once all
the total addressable marketsize all are equally huge and
the teams are, all you know,equally talented on paper, it's
(15:56):
got to be that stuff that youknow you only get to uncover by
working alongside them.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Welcome to Higher Fireboss.
This is a quick fire game wherewe give our guests a fictional
scenario and three characters towork with.
You've got to hire one fire one, and one of them is going to be
your boss.
The task at hand is that youare going to launch an
international lifestyle brandcentered around confidence, and
(16:32):
your team is full of confidencetoday.
We're going to start with MoiraRose from Schitt's Creek, an
eccentric with elaborate.
We all love Moira.
She's eccentric.
She wears wigs.
Speaking of wigs, we haveRuPaul, because if you can't
(16:54):
love yourself, and then we havethe mojo master himself, austin
Powers.
That is your fictional team.
You have to hire one fire one,and one of them you have to work
(17:14):
for.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Oh, my goodness, okay , boss, fire Moira and hire
Austin Powers.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
How come RuPaul's the boss?
Because I also had RuPaul as myboss too.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I can't think of anybody who I can imagine has
like their shit together more.
Yeah, um, you know, just likethe production, the details, I
just can't imagine the empireLeadership, a plan, you know all
of that, all of that.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
An international lifestyle brand.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, Consistency, just all of that so yeah, yeah,
definitely would have a visionfor a lifestyle brand.
What do you think it'd be likeworking for Austin, working with
Austin Powers, mr Mojo himself?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
So fun.
I feel like this question isfor me because, um, uh, what is
the greatest trilogy of all time?
I always say Austin powers.
Uh, do you remember when therewas like limewire and bear share
and all that good stuff.
Well, so I was in college duringthat and we you know you can't
(18:28):
always get the titles you want,but for whatever reason we were
able to successfully legallydownload all three Austin Powers
movies.
So it just became this ritualthat we would come home from
classes and just watch one ofthe three, and that went on for
months.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
So I can still recite every single line.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
So obviously I want to work with them.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Hire.
I am completely aligned onMoira.
I don't think that she doesn'twork well.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Too much.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, life is hard.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Life is hard, I'm pretty in line with you.
I mean, certainly on RuPaul I'min line with you.
I don't know that I could hireAustin, though I think that he
and I would have a hard time.
I would have a hard timeworking with him.
There'd just be a lot of youknow.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
HR reporting.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Violations yeah.
I think that he has a goodattitude and yeah, I think that
he's fun and he's a good teamplayer, so he would have
creative detours with Austin,like you'd be like, and on those
creative detours you'd actuallysolve the biggest challenges
(19:43):
because of all the like, wackyadventures you've been on.
But you would definitely,definitely need RuPaul to reign
us in.
But I feel like RuPaul wouldhave to be like enough, come on,
it's go time, we're shipping.
And then you'd be like oh, herewe go.
And I think Austin wouldactually respond to that.
But I also didn't have Moira onthe team either and I have mad
(20:04):
respect for her and her actingand talent skills.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
And her wigs and their names yeah.
Well, I think that does it.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Good job, all right, we get it, even if I think about
, like 25-year-old Molly andsome of the stories that you
shared earlier.
I remember sitting at tablesand not knowing when and how to
come into the conversation.
I remember and being like is itnow?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Nope, it's not now I'm leaning back.
I'm like my heart rate isincreasing just thinking about
it.
I know exactly what you'resaying.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, and you're like I think I got something good to
say, but maybe it's not.
And then I also think about youknow, I switched careers quite
a bit in the in those in thoseearly days, and I, I just, I
don't know.
All of that just like clickedtogether for me, just thinking
about my own professional growthexperiences and my own
(21:03):
questions around confidence.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
There are those people out there that make it
their business to make you feellike the village idiot in those
settings what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
we've all worked.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
We've all worked with those people when, when you,
when you feel like you know,when you walk into a room and
you feel like you're in trouble,like you're like you're a
criminal in a room full ofinvestigators, right, and you're
like, oh shit, I'm in, I like,I, like I, that's that.
I, I felt like that a lot, likeI'm just gonna get, I'm just
(21:42):
gonna get found out and I think,oh, yeah, that resonates deeply
.
Yes, yes, so I think it's like,as we sort of like talk to the
25 year olds who are listeningtoday, this is really personal,
deeply personal work.
What are the first steps Like,how do you get started on this
(22:06):
in a very like what, what werethe catalysts for you and what
were the steps that you tookthat got you on this path?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Um, it's exactly what I tell founders when they are
starting their journeys offiguring out how they want to
show up in the world in like apublic way, and so what I mean
by that is, I think, today, alot of young founders or new
founders.
It's easy to, it's easy tobelieve that you have to be
prolific on social media, youhave to be so clever on podcasts
(22:41):
and on stage in order for youto be successful, like you have
a duty to your company to beable to do those things really
well, and I think you have a lotof founders, technical founders
in particular, which is theones that.
I work with who feel like Ican't do that.
That's not me, and I remindthem that, like I think some of
(23:02):
the best founders from ourgeneration would have said the
same thing, and I think a lot ofthem like Zuck, like they grow
into the role, but let's be fair, like he's had 20 years to do
it Right.
And so don't compare yourself onday one with somebody who's on,
you know, year 20.
But the thing that I usuallysay is there's going to be a
channel or a format that feelsreally natural and easy for you,
(23:26):
and we have to find that format.
And then we have to find thetopic that you are so confident
at, because you think that youare, objectively speaking, in
the top 1% of people who areknowledgeable about that, and
it's usually a passion right.
It's usually something thatthey've been working on since
they were a kid.
So it's the combination of thosetwo things, and I found that
(23:47):
for myself and it happened tohave been during COVID where,
like as a sanity project, Istarted blogging.
I started writing aboutquestions that technical
founders would ask me, and whenI worked at Quora, we had this
rule because, you know, wewanted to encourage employees to
write on the site as much aspossible.
Quora is a question and answer.
(24:08):
You know app and the rule was,if you are asked a question
three times, drop what you'redoing and go answer it on Quora.
If that question doesn't exist,you can ask yourself the
question.
You can answer the question,and what that did was for a lot
of very data-driven, rational,introverted people who worked at
(24:28):
Quora, because that wasdefinitely the crew it made it
so that it was objective.
Well, if you are asked aquestion three times, that means
people must think you are anexpert in that subject, right?
So, like you have to literallygamify this, and so I wrote a
series of blog posts I think Iwrote like six blog posts in
(24:48):
like a month of all of the topquestions that I get that I've
answered.
You know I can go sift throughmy email and my texts like
questions that I get over andover and over again.
And then I felt like I couldanswer with authority because,
look, I keep getting the samequestions.
People must assume that I havethe answer.
And so I picked a format whichwas blogging, and I picked a
topic that I felt like I reallyhad expertise in and then I
(25:12):
found ways to talk about that asmuch as possible and then, once
you feel comfortable talkingabout that, you start sprinkling
in some other things.
It's like layers of an onion,right.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
But it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
one day I woke up, I found my mojo and then I started
to like join podcasts like thisand talk about it.
It was, it was a process offinding where can I start out
with the most confidencepossible.
And so you know you contrastthat with people who are very
active online who are tweetingabout one thing you know very
technical at their company, andthen they're sounding off about
(25:43):
like geopolitical events andthey're sounding off about, you
know, like health and and alllike that's not me and that is,
that is some people, but that'snot me, and so I usually stick
very narrow into like topicsthat I feel like I can go very
deep on and that I've gotrelevant.
You know rich examples to pullfrom.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah.
When do you know that thatconfidence is real versus
performative?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Ooh, great question.
I would say that, within whatis reasonable, even if you work
at a big company, really try tostick to the places where you
are just sort of like in yourzone like you know, like you.
So you're at your best, um, andI think what's hard early in
your career when you're stilltrying to navigate like well,
what is my channel?
What is my topic?
(26:30):
You know?
you know a lot of topics causeyou're so early in your career.
You see other people crushingit Right and you don't realize
that, oh, they're in that zoneand you're still, and you're,
and you put this, you put thispressure on yourself to perform
at that level across a varietyof topics, and it's like no, no,
no, no, because if you'rewatching me, it's like it took
(26:51):
me, you know, 20 years to figureout where that zone was.
And that's fine and I admit it,I think that's that's longer
than than most people, but itstill took me that time.
It didn't happen overnight.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I think about when I get anxious about something and
I do get anxious about a lot ofstuff, particularly in this day
and age, particularly in sort oflike these unsteady times where
there is dramatic change that'shappening, Like we're not
navigating.
You know, I feel like before itwas sort of like moaning about
our bosses, but now it's like,oh wait, no, the business
(27:22):
landscape is shifting, Ourmarkets are shifting and, oh
wait, I have to be shiftingbecause I have to have AI as my
teammate now.
And so there's a lot of that,in this time of unsteadiness, of
how you're like supporting, youknow, like with your founders
(27:46):
teams, how are people, how arepeople navigating that that
through?
Because change does createthose uncertainties in you.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
It does seem really uncertain.
In fact, this period right nowreminds me more of 2008 than any
other time period in recenthistory, more of 2008 than any
other time period in recenthistory, and and I was, or you
know, I was 25.
So I was, I was figuring it outmyself, Um, but I think if I
could go back and talk to myselfthen, during that period of
(28:12):
uncertainty, it's, it's sort ofthis it's never been more
important to, uh one, thinklong-term and not be
transactional.
You just really don't know how.
You know where you're going toend up and who you're going to
need, and all of that, so thatthat's probably the most
important thing Um, you knowopportunities will present
themselves, you know when youare kind and you know the game
(28:32):
that we just played as anicebreaker is right.
It's like you want it.
You want to be higher.
But the second thing I say I'llsay is, like you know, I really
believe in T-shaped people.
I know that's so trite, butlike knowing what you're really
good at, I would always startwith that.
When I would be like talking tosomebody about you know
potential marketing role, I'dsay, like I'm best in class in
(28:55):
product marketing and I'm okayat these other things and I'm
reasonably smart enough.
I'm reasonable or smart enoughto sort of like figure out these
things that I don't know.
But I'm very like open aboutlike here are the expectations
right and so if that's whatyou're looking for, then like
let's talk, and if that's not,like let me help you find
(29:17):
somebody right that you'relooking for.
And so I think just having thisattitude and like really
knowing you know where you'veexcelled in life and like what
brings you energy and what youwant to do, regardless of
whether it's a small company orbig company or this sector you
know, or this geography orwhatever, I think like being
able to answer that question oflike what am I really good at?
You know, what can I do?
(29:37):
And then what?
What are areas where I don't doit today?
But I'm confident enough inmyself that I could pick that up
.
Like being able to even justanswer that question for
yourself, I think will helpanchor you in what feels like
you're just floating.
And you know, should I latchmyself and pretend like I love
AI, because it seems likeeverybody is working at an AI
company right now?
Like do I have to go study abunch of things on YouTube to to
(30:00):
to know what I'm talking about?
It's like yes, but if thatdoesn't feel authentic, like you
know, you're going to get foundout.
So it's, I think, like that'sthe sort of like you really got
to answer the questions about.
You know, um, what you want todo, um yeah.
(30:20):
Yeah, I'm someone who's switchedindustries and careers, so I
know that those are questions Ihave to keep asking myself.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
That's right, as I'm like I kind of think I'm
tumbling along and then I'm likeno, you've been pretty
intentional about your choicesall along the way when you, when
you have those types ofquestions to guide you.
So I think that's, those arepretty powerful.
So I was fangirling about thegreat chat podcast oh my gosh
(30:55):
the reason is because I feltlike, um, you guys will have a
different set of voices aroundthe technology space.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Oh, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I mean I'm like I'm winking at you, yeah, yeah, yeah
, you know like it was I also.
It's like when I'm sitting witha group of friends and just
like gnawing on work issuesbecause we care about them, it's
part of our lives, they, theymatter to us, um, and it isn't
like and I get a chance to learnand grow through those candid,
(31:30):
fun and pointed conversations.
I think in those conversations,I think there's a lot of mojo,
like I think you guys are likefeeling yourselves, you're you
know, and you're and you're kindof elevating each other's mojo,
like you're, you're like that'sa huge part of it.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
We didn't touch on that.
That is such a huge part of it,right, um, and it's okay to
need it as well.
Yeah, yeah, okay To need it,yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, they talk about like vibe coding.
It's like vibe mojo, likeyou're in there and you start,
and when other people areconfident and caring and bring
you in then you're able to beconfident and caring and elevate
.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
And so.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I'm curious what's something about leadership that
requires more mojo than people?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
realize you can't do it all by yourself.
And you know, I think a lot ofleaders have disclosed.
They work with a leadershipcoach or they have a really
special relationship with amentor, or they've got maybe you
know, a girl gang that liftsthem up and reminds them how
great they are, all of thosethings.
So I think these are thingsthat are not visible, but I know
(32:37):
every leader has that versionand so you know the podcast.
It's funny you mentioned this.
But something that all of ushave in common all five of us is
that we're kind of on like asecond chapter of our careers
and so you can kind of look backat the previous with a little
bit more objectivity.
(32:58):
You're not kind of like stillin that on that sort of same
linear path, and I think thatmeans that we're a little bit
more free with, like, ourlessons learned and all of this,
but you know, in the background, as we do prep for these
episodes like.
So, the whole premise of thepodcast is that we want people
to feel like they'reeavesdropping on some trends.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Who are?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
talking about what happened in tech that week.
Oh yeah, and that's exactly howit feels Some evergreen topic
that, you know, we wish peoplewere talking more about when we
were, you know, earlier in ourcareers, and hopefully it does
that.
But behind the scenes, we areencouraging each other to share
stories, we are encouraging eachother to, you know, like, say
(33:39):
something that we know thatthey're really, they have the
authority to say because wethink so highly of them, or we
remind them that they have theauthority to say that, you know,
I think that's that's all ofthat behind the scenes, sort of
you know stuff that happens ineven in podcast episode prep,
right, that's happening in reallife.
So yeah, I think like find asupport network or find a coach
(34:00):
or find somebody who's doingthat for you and reminding you
of the progress that you'remaking and you know, sort of
like everything that you'veaccomplished.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I love it.
I also you started off ourepisode talking about the
women's dinners at SherylSandberg's house and having the
opportunity to be in thosedinners.
That's sort of what this is.
It's a chance and it's, butit's at scale and I think it's
like that chance to be at thattable with these amazing women,
um, and and to delight and learnand stretch with them, and so
(34:29):
that's why, that's why I wasfangirling out and um, and and
appreciate it, and I'll alsoanswer the question.
I like that you put me in thehot seat.
We love a good zinger onUnserious.
And so if I was to think about,like, what requires more mojo
than people realize, um, I thinkleaders are constantly having
(34:55):
to navigate and lead throughchange.
It's just every day and youhave to do it, live in front of
a team or in front of a board orin front of customers all the
time, and so I do think itrequires, as you were.
You know, what you've reallybeen sharing about is that it's
like the team, that it's notthat you're that this is that
(35:17):
you need to enlist and inviteand welcome folks to be on that
journey with you, and thatyou're going to get some things
right, some things wrong, butthe intention of trying to do
great work is always there and Ithink we need that a lot right
now.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I'll answer the question as well, since I lobbed
it at you and I think it's fair, is fair.
But I think, and working inexecutive communications, I
think just putting yourself outthere and your voice out there
is it's really hard to and,Helen, you probably feel this
too Like it's really hard to goand review your own work when
(35:58):
you're on stage and when you'reon camera and when you're on on
audio and you have to likethere's this, there are so many
levels of self-acceptance oflike listening to your voice and
you're being like, oh my god, Iactually have to, I actually
have to come to terms with thisand like how I look on camera,
how, how I sound on on audio andum, and that I say um too much,
(36:24):
and all of these little bitsand pieces of who you are, um,
you have to come to terms with.
And I have so much respect forthese leaders who who really are
able to put themselves outthere really all the time,
because it's it's uncomfortable,it's uncomfortable for all of
(36:46):
us and it's it never gets easyand and it's really important
that they do it.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, well, I think about that, even what you were
sharing, JB.
I'm like what can we learn fromAustin Powers?
That guy had some crazysnaggled teeth and was still
landing ladies.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
And so you know that's the ultimate mojo.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
So I do feel like I don't know, I feel like he
didn't slow, didn't slow hisroll, even, even his shenanigans
along the way.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Helen, thank you so much for being on.
Where can folks learn aboutmore about you, about articulate
, about great chat?
Speaker 3 (37:29):
great chat podcom, and we're coming out with season
two in a couple of weeks whichis great.
Yes, we, we got some sponsorsnice sponsors that are allowing
us to have a season two andseason three, which is great.
Yes, we, we got some sponsorsnice sponsors that are allowing
us to have a season two andseason three, which is great.
Uh, you can find me on twitter,that godforsaken site, um, and
I think I'm helen underscore minum, and I'm on linkedin.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Great, say hi we will , and that's the show.
Unserious is produced by micahvono.
Special thanks to our guest,Helen Min.
If this episode made you thinkof a certain friend or coworker
who needs a little more mojo,send them a link to it.
It's an easy way to maintainyour network while helping
Unserious reach more listenerslike you.
(38:14):
If you have questions or ideasfor future episodes, drop us a
line at hello at unseriouscom.
You can also keep up with us onLinkedIn, on Instagram at
unseriousfun or on our websiteat unseriouscom.
At Unserious, we make work play.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
And you leave the Zoom and you're like, wow, I
have no more or less convictionon this company than I did
before.
This is Unserious on my adult life, my career, my
relationships and asking thequestion that David Byrne asked
itself how did I get here?
Now, let me be clear I love whoI am, but I'm definitely not
who I thought I would be when Ifirst started out.
And somewhere along the way Irealized that I had to go
spelunking into the depths ofmyself to find a wellspring of
(00:42):
confidence.
To paraphrase Austin Powers, Ihad to go reclaim my mojo.
I'm JB Skelton, here with myco-host, molly McMahon.
Hey everyone.
And we're joined today by HelenMin.
Helen is the founder andgeneral partner of Articulate, a
pre-seed venture capital firmthat invests in founders
(01:03):
building enterprise, softwareand fintech companies.
She's also a venture partner atTrue Ventures and a co-founder
at Phenomenal Ventures.
As if that wasn't enough, she'salso the co-host of an
excellent venture-themed podcastcalled Great Chat, which is
available everywhere that youfind podcasts.
Helen, you and I grabbed luncha few months back and the
(01:25):
conversation ended up going tothe journey that we both took,
to trusting our guts, betting onourselves and how we lead with
integrity, and we want to bringthat conversation to our
listeners.
So here we are, Helen.
Welcome to Unserious.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So this conversation is really about understanding
your groove, your style, yourvalues, your voice, and we
talked a lot about skills andvalues and experiences with
young people, but we don't talka lot about self-confidence and
developing self-assurance, and Ifeel like it's I feel like we
(02:07):
talk about it like it's anattribute that you're just born
with, like your eye color.
But did did you always feelconfident in your career path?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
No, um, and I think that's what we're here to talk
about today.
So so, jb, you and I workedtogether at Facebook long ago
when it was called Facebook, andso I was at Facebook from 2008
to 2013.
And in those early days I thinkI was employee like 600
(02:38):
something or other.
You know I was 25 and, um, veryimpressionable.
Uh, I think you know we, cheryl, had joined a CEO just a couple
of months before I had joined,and it was an incredible
experience to have, you know,basically the most powerful
person you know sort of uh, inin the business organization,
(03:00):
right, and the number two to theCEO, uh, be a woman.
I think that was a rareopportunity experience
especially at that time, and Ithink that, outside of Cheryl,
you know we had a couple ofexamples of women in leadership
roles, but not a lot, and soCheryl was really like the one.
And when you're 25 and you'refiguring out who you are and how
(03:21):
to navigate this organizationand your career and the world,
no, so I absolutely was notconfident.
But I think, more importantly,when you're 25 and you're
figuring out who you are and howto navigate this organization
and your career and the world,no, so I absolutely was not
confident.
But I think, more importantly,and like, looking back and I can
say this now, I didn't reallyknow who I was and so I had this
feeling like everyone else knewwho they were.
Everyone else was so confident,like, why don't I have anything
to contribute?
(03:41):
I don't have anything to say?
I actually remember very vividly, you know Cheryl would host
these women's dinners at herhouse and she'd invite, you know
, a handful of women fromFacebook and some from Google,
um, and also some women from GSBand other people that that she
was connected to, and there'dalways be like a really
incredible speaker, um, and Iremember leaving the events
obviously like very inspired andall of that and feeling very
(04:03):
grateful that I could beincluded for the evening, but
also like very hard on myself,like why didn't I show up with
more confidence?
Why didn't I have anythinginteresting to contribute to the
conversation?
Am I just such a dud?
And I just remember that's howI would feel when I would leave,
and I think one.
There were some reallyextraordinary women there who
(04:23):
were extremely confident and soaccomplished in all these things
.
But I will just admit to youright now, it took me a lot
longer to gain my confidence andto, I think, experience enough
things in my career for me toreally feel like I had something
to show up with, and that issomething that only recently I
have like accepted about myself,if that makes sense, right,
(04:44):
like I think even you know, whenI think back to 2021, I was
fundraising for my first fundand I just felt like you know,
I've had this operating career,I've worked at some of these
incredible companies and I justI'm having such a difficult time
owning it.
You know, I either the impostersyndrome, sort of like overtake
me.
(05:05):
There were women who were 10years younger than me, who had
like half the operatingexperience you know, worked at
fewer like incredible, uh, highgrowth startups that I had who
were raising out, you know, whowere going out to raise funds
very successfully, and they justfelt they looked like they were
so comfortable in their skinand I couldn't figure out how to
get there.
And it's only recently whereI'm like you know what.
(05:25):
It just took me longer, but Ithink I'm there now and I'm so
happy that I can be 40 when Irealized that, and not older,
because I still think.
I've got a lot of life left inme and so I kind of like let
myself off the hook for notfiguring it out sooner, if that
makes sense.
And the second I did that sortof it started a new, sort of,
you know, more authenticconfidence that I get to
(05:46):
experience now.
So how did I show up reallyearly in my career?
I mean, let's be honest, like,especially in those early days,
like the talent density atplaces like that is so high, so
hard to really think of anybodywho has not, you know, shared
with me at some point that theyweren't, you know, also
intimidated or they also didn'thave, you know, a flavor of
imposter syndrome.
(06:07):
So I think everybody was goingthrough that at the same time.
It just showed up differentlyand people, people, um, sort of
uh, you know, did with it whatthey would, but like for me, I
just took a lot longer and Ithink that, um, there were so
many things I call it theformative years right, cause it
was.
(06:28):
You weren't fresh out of college, but you were still you're not
like a leader here, you knowyou're still figuring out how to
be a leader, you're figuringout how you want to show up in
the world overall and it was someaningful to be there and to be
influenced by so many people,and I think that a sort of
management belief that I hold tothis day is that I think you
are disproportionately impactedby the managers you have earlier
in your career than you arelater, and so I took that really
(06:51):
seriously.
So later, you know, when I wasin my 30s and I was managing big
teams at Dropbox and Plaid andCora, I remembered that and I'm
like there's a 25 year oldversion of me, you know on this
team and how I am.
Their manager is going toreally stick with them and
really influence the paths thatthey take, and so I think that's
(07:12):
something that I try to recycleinto how it would show up for
me later, just remembering howimpactful some of those early
managers I had at Facebook wereto help me sort of figure out my
journey and and find the earlystages of mojo.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
How did that like were you?
Cause?
When I knew you there, youseemed like I thought you were
very confident and, um, and itwas like it was this like?
Was this like a faking it toyou feel it kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
You know it's, it's so funny Like I get that comment
all the time.
I think that I'm one of thosepeople that the more nervous and
the more anxious and the moreinsecure I feel the projection
is it gets more serious.
I love that we're on a podcastcalled unserious right now, but
I can project like a level ofintensity and seriousness, um
(08:06):
like, and it's it'sproportionate to the amount of
like discomfort that I feel.
Does that make sense?
And I think for a lot of people, and especially women, when
they get nervous or they feelinsecure, you can see it more in
like stereotypical ways, likethey'll ramble on or you know
they'll have nervous energy orsomething like that.
I just sort of get very quietand very serious.
(08:28):
And then people, you know we'reall projecting on ourselves
People interpret that to mean,oh, she must be really confident
in what she's doing.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And I'll share a story from Dropbox actually.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
So I was at Dropbox 2014 to 16 and managing a pretty
large team and there was awoman who Amy Sherman.
She was my admin, and one thingthat she said that she likes to
do to sort of learn what it'slike to support someone is to
just ask people around theorganization.
(09:02):
You know, like, what they thinkthat person is like and sort of
like, how are you, what are youknown for?
And one of the first meetingswe had she said you know, helen,
something so interesting isthat everybody has remarked how
competent you are and you knowhow, how confident and smart and
all this things you know.
(09:23):
But there is this sense thatyou don't need any help.
Mm, hmm, I was like I don'tneed any help and I thought
about that for a second and I'mlike, oh my gosh, I need so much
help.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
What are we?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
talking about here, and it was the first time I
started to reflect on like that.
Oh okay, this is actually notserving me well and actually it
might be really not serving myteam, because my team members
right, because they work for meand they need to get their jobs
done through the organizationand a JB.
I mean, everybody knows that.
(09:58):
You know, success in a largeorganization is how many people
are going to help you.
Where's the flow of information?
You know how can you workcross-functionally?
Um, and if they're on my teamand people assume that we need
no help because we're doing sowell, that is bad.
So that was actually probably areally critical piece of
(10:19):
feedback that really made mereevaluate how I show up, and it
wasn't intentional, it's justsort of like my default.
I just get very serious Peoplecomment about me being very
polished and buttoned up.
It's just how my nervousnessshows up, and maybe you think
that's a good thing, but it hasserved me well.
(10:40):
Let's be clear.
I think, given the benefit ofthe doubt, that you know your
stuff and that you are preparedis good in many ways, but I
think in this way, where I thinkwhat makes the most successful
people successful is thateverybody gets behind them and
everybody wants to help them.
Right, and you have this senseof team and I wasn't really
(11:00):
exercising that and I was not,you know.
More importantly, helping myteam members benefit from
something like that.
So that was.
That was really critical pieceof the journey.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I'm curious like how do you ask for help?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, so this is where you know your work life
and your personal life.
Really you start to see theoverlap, right.
You can imagine if you'resomebody at work who doesn't ask
for help, you're probably oneof those people.
You know you've got people inyour life who, like, don't know
how to ask for help, don't knowhow to say what they need, and,
(11:37):
yeah, it's difficult, right, itcan create a lot of conflict
because then you're assuming, orthere's all this, you know,
sort of non-communication goingon and that's very inefficient.
And so for me, I know I am oneof those people who, I mean ever
since I was a kid, I just I wasnever comfortable asking for
help.
I think many people in my lifetoday would still describe me
that way and so my trick isreally to offer help and then
(11:58):
usually I mean 99% of the timepeople are going to say like,
well, how can I help you?
What are you working on?
What is there something?
And then I take them on that.
You know I take thatopportunity to vocalize because
you're you know you're you'rebasically you're creating an
invitation to, to to ask forhelp, right?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Offering it and you know what.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
It takes a little bit more work.
It means I have to do the workup front, but that's fine.
That's fine.
That's the way I'm going to doit.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
It works for me.
Yeah, and that reciprocity.
I think that's what eases.
Then folks can also ask you forhelp.
Coming on back Right, thinkabout these larger teams and you
create these cycles wherepeople can be a little bit safer
about asking questions, totallyReally explore their curiosity.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yes, and the way this shows up for me today is
literally like my investmentstrategy right.
I meet these founders at theearliest stages and I'm able to
help them.
I mean there's three types ofstories that founders at the
very, very earliest stages needhelp with.
The first is how do theyconvince the co-founder of their
dreams to join them?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
on this journey.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
The second is how do you find the first few design
partners to validate that thispath is worthwhile, this problem
is worthwhile solving?
And the third is how do youpitch your first institutional
investor to give you money?
And so I think, through mynetwork and you know the great
people that I'm able to find andwork with like I just offer
(13:24):
help and then through thatprocess of me helping them, I
actually really get to know whothey are.
And you know, my secret, afterinvesting in 58 companies at
early stages, is just that atthese stages you know when it's
so, so early and there's verylittle to underwrite, you're
just underwriting people.
And the best way to like reallyget to know somebody is
actually not through a pitchdeck, it's through working
(13:46):
alongside them, and so that isliterally how I make investments
and I love it, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I mean, I love thinking about that investment
approach and being really peoplefirst, Because when you are
early stage, you like everythingis emergent, you have to be
like learning fast, you have tobe trying new things, you have
to believe in yourself andthere's a high amount of like
vulnerability in that space, andso having an like having a VC
partner who's in it with you, umI think is really is really
(14:18):
powerful, and I that also makesme think that that togetherness
is probably leads to even, like,greater success of that
business and the fund, um,because of that, um deep
partnership.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well, it's, it's the trust right, and when you trust
somebody, like there'sinformation flow, there's people
coming to you with problems andnot sort of hiding them right,
being nervous about what youmight think.
And I think as an investor youknow you really want your
founders to be honest with youand bringing you along for the
ride as long as possible.
And something that I learned,you know, through my first fund,
(14:50):
where you know we were lookingat a lot of pitch decks and we
were trying to be thesis driveninvestors, is that, especially
during, like COVID, a couple ofyears after COVID, where a lot
of things were still remote, youknow, the thing that I liked,
the thing that I enjoyed theleast about investing was you
get a pitch deck from reallysparkly founders you know
founders with great resumes yousit through the pitch, you ask
(15:14):
questions.
They have the perfect answers toyour questions and then you
leave the Zoom and you're likewow, I have no more or less
conviction on this company thanI did before, and so, now that
there are, you know, yc YCombinator is so much bigger.
There's like a new AIaccelerator popping up every
single day.
These are like you know,they're, they're.
(15:35):
They offer many great things,but they're like pitch factories
.
They teach founders how tocreate the perfect pitch.
So once that becomes sort of alldemocratized right Like, once
all the pitch decks startlooking the same and once all
the total addressable marketsize all are equally huge and
the teams are, all you know,equally talented on paper, it's
(15:56):
got to be that stuff that youknow you only get to uncover by
working alongside them.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Welcome to Higher Fireboss.
This is a quick fire game wherewe give our guests a fictional
scenario and three characters towork with.
You've got to hire one fire one, and one of them is going to be
your boss.
The task at hand is that youare going to launch an
international lifestyle brandcentered around confidence, and
(16:32):
your team is full of confidencetoday.
We're going to start with MoiraRose from Schitt's Creek, an
eccentric with elaborate.
We all love Moira.
She's eccentric.
She wears wigs.
Speaking of wigs, we haveRuPaul, because if you can't
(16:54):
love yourself, and then we havethe mojo master himself, austin
Powers.
That is your fictional team.
You have to hire one fire one,and one of them you have to work
(17:14):
for.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Oh, my goodness, okay , boss, fire Moira and hire
Austin Powers.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
How come RuPaul's the boss?
Because I also had RuPaul as myboss too.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I can't think of anybody who I can imagine has
like their shit together more.
Yeah, um, you know, just likethe production, the details, I
just can't imagine the empireLeadership, a plan, you know all
of that, all of that.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
An international lifestyle brand.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, Consistency, just all of that so yeah, yeah,
definitely would have a visionfor a lifestyle brand.
What do you think it'd be likeworking for Austin, working with
Austin Powers, mr Mojo himself?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
So fun.
I feel like this question isfor me because, um, uh, what is
the greatest trilogy of all time?
I always say Austin powers.
Uh, do you remember when therewas like limewire and bear share
and all that good stuff.
Well, so I was in college duringthat and we you know you can't
(18:28):
always get the titles you want,but for whatever reason we were
able to successfully legallydownload all three Austin Powers
movies.
So it just became this ritualthat we would come home from
classes and just watch one ofthe three, and that went on for
months.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
So I can still recite every single line.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
So obviously I want to work with them.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Hire.
I am completely aligned onMoira.
I don't think that she doesn'twork well.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Too much.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, life is hard.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Life is hard, I'm pretty in line with you.
I mean, certainly on RuPaul I'min line with you.
I don't know that I could hireAustin, though I think that he
and I would have a hard time.
I would have a hard timeworking with him.
There'd just be a lot of youknow.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
HR reporting.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Violations yeah.
I think that he has a goodattitude and yeah, I think that
he's fun and he's a good teamplayer, so he would have
creative detours with Austin,like you'd be like, and on those
creative detours you'd actuallysolve the biggest challenges
(19:43):
because of all the like, wackyadventures you've been on.
But you would definitely,definitely need RuPaul to reign
us in.
But I feel like RuPaul wouldhave to be like enough, come on,
it's go time, we're shipping.
And then you'd be like oh, herewe go.
And I think Austin wouldactually respond to that.
But I also didn't have Moira onthe team either and I have mad
(20:04):
respect for her and her actingand talent skills.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
And her wigs and their names yeah.
Well, I think that does it.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Good job, all right, we get it, even if I think about
, like 25-year-old Molly andsome of the stories that you
shared earlier.
I remember sitting at tablesand not knowing when and how to
come into the conversation.
I remember and being like is itnow?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Nope, it's not now I'm leaning back.
I'm like my heart rate isincreasing just thinking about
it.
I know exactly what you'resaying.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, and you're like I think I got something good to
say, but maybe it's not.
And then I also think about youknow, I switched careers quite
a bit in the in those in thoseearly days, and I, I just, I
don't know.
All of that just like clickedtogether for me, just thinking
about my own professional growthexperiences and my own
(21:03):
questions around confidence.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
There are those people out there that make it
their business to make you feellike the village idiot in those
settings what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
we've all worked.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
We've all worked with those people when, when you,
when you feel like you know,when you walk into a room and
you feel like you're in trouble,like you're like you're a
criminal in a room full ofinvestigators, right, and you're
like, oh shit, I'm in, I like,I, like I, that's that.
I, I felt like that a lot, likeI'm just gonna get, I'm just
(21:42):
gonna get found out and I think,oh, yeah, that resonates deeply
.
Yes, yes, so I think it's like,as we sort of like talk to the
25 year olds who are listeningtoday, this is really personal,
deeply personal work.
What are the first steps Like,how do you get started on this
(22:06):
in a very like what, what werethe catalysts for you and what
were the steps that you tookthat got you on this path?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Um, it's exactly what I tell founders when they are
starting their journeys offiguring out how they want to
show up in the world in like apublic way, and so what I mean
by that is, I think, today, alot of young founders or new
founders.
It's easy to, it's easy tobelieve that you have to be
prolific on social media, youhave to be so clever on podcasts
(22:41):
and on stage in order for youto be successful, like you have
a duty to your company to beable to do those things really
well, and I think you have a lotof founders, technical founders
in particular, which is theones that.
I work with who feel like Ican't do that.
That's not me, and I remindthem that, like I think some of
(23:02):
the best founders from ourgeneration would have said the
same thing, and I think a lot ofthem like Zuck, like they grow
into the role, but let's be fair, like he's had 20 years to do
it Right.
And so don't compare yourself onday one with somebody who's on,
you know, year 20.
But the thing that I usuallysay is there's going to be a
channel or a format that feelsreally natural and easy for you,
(23:26):
and we have to find that format.
And then we have to find thetopic that you are so confident
at, because you think that youare, objectively speaking, in
the top 1% of people who areknowledgeable about that, and
it's usually a passion right.
It's usually something thatthey've been working on since
they were a kid.
So it's the combination of thosetwo things, and I found that
(23:47):
for myself and it happened tohave been during COVID where,
like as a sanity project, Istarted blogging.
I started writing aboutquestions that technical
founders would ask me, and whenI worked at Quora, we had this
rule because, you know, wewanted to encourage employees to
write on the site as much aspossible.
Quora is a question and answer.
(24:08):
You know app and the rule was,if you are asked a question
three times, drop what you'redoing and go answer it on Quora.
If that question doesn't exist,you can ask yourself the
question.
You can answer the question,and what that did was for a lot
of very data-driven, rational,introverted people who worked at
(24:28):
Quora, because that wasdefinitely the crew it made it
so that it was objective.
Well, if you are asked aquestion three times, that means
people must think you are anexpert in that subject, right?
So, like you have to literallygamify this, and so I wrote a
series of blog posts I think Iwrote like six blog posts in
(24:48):
like a month of all of the topquestions that I get that I've
answered.
You know I can go sift throughmy email and my texts like
questions that I get over andover and over again.
And then I felt like I couldanswer with authority because,
look, I keep getting the samequestions.
People must assume that I havethe answer.
And so I picked a format whichwas blogging, and I picked a
topic that I felt like I reallyhad expertise in and then I
(25:12):
found ways to talk about that asmuch as possible and then, once
you feel comfortable talkingabout that, you start sprinkling
in some other things.
It's like layers of an onion,right.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
But it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
one day I woke up, I found my mojo and then I started
to like join podcasts like thisand talk about it.
It was, it was a process offinding where can I start out
with the most confidencepossible.
And so you know you contrastthat with people who are very
active online who are tweetingabout one thing you know very
technical at their company, andthen they're sounding off about
(25:43):
like geopolitical events andthey're sounding off about, you
know, like health and and alllike that's not me and that is,
that is some people, but that'snot me, and so I usually stick
very narrow into like topicsthat I feel like I can go very
deep on and that I've gotrelevant.
You know rich examples to pullfrom.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah.
When do you know that thatconfidence is real versus
performative?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Ooh, great question.
I would say that, within whatis reasonable, even if you work
at a big company, really try tostick to the places where you
are just sort of like in yourzone like you know, like you.
So you're at your best, um, andI think what's hard early in
your career when you're stilltrying to navigate like well,
what is my channel?
What is my topic?
(26:30):
You know?
you know a lot of topics causeyou're so early in your career.
You see other people crushingit Right and you don't realize
that, oh, they're in that zoneand you're still, and you're,
and you put this, you put thispressure on yourself to perform
at that level across a varietyof topics, and it's like no, no,
no, no, because if you'rewatching me, it's like it took
(26:51):
me, you know, 20 years to figureout where that zone was.
And that's fine and I admit it,I think that's that's longer
than than most people, but itstill took me that time.
It didn't happen overnight.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I think about when I get anxious about something and
I do get anxious about a lot ofstuff, particularly in this day
and age, particularly in sort oflike these unsteady times where
there is dramatic change that'shappening, Like we're not
navigating.
You know, I feel like before itwas sort of like moaning about
our bosses, but now it's like,oh wait, no, the business
(27:22):
landscape is shifting, Ourmarkets are shifting and, oh
wait, I have to be shiftingbecause I have to have AI as my
teammate now.
And so there's a lot of that,in this time of unsteadiness, of
how you're like supporting, youknow, like with your founders
(27:46):
teams, how are people, how arepeople navigating that that
through?
Because change does createthose uncertainties in you.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
It does seem really uncertain.
In fact, this period right nowreminds me more of 2008 than any
other time period in recenthistory, more of 2008 than any
other time period in recenthistory, and and I was, or you
know, I was 25.
So I was, I was figuring it outmyself, Um, but I think if I
could go back and talk to myselfthen, during that period of
(28:12):
uncertainty, it's, it's sort ofthis it's never been more
important to, uh one, thinklong-term and not be
transactional.
You just really don't know how.
You know where you're going toend up and who you're going to
need, and all of that, so thatthat's probably the most
important thing Um, you knowopportunities will present
themselves, you know when youare kind and you know the game
(28:32):
that we just played as anicebreaker is right.
It's like you want it.
You want to be higher.
But the second thing I say I'llsay is, like you know, I really
believe in T-shaped people.
I know that's so trite, butlike knowing what you're really
good at, I would always startwith that.
When I would be like talking tosomebody about you know
potential marketing role, I'dsay, like I'm best in class in
(28:55):
product marketing and I'm okayat these other things and I'm
reasonably smart enough.
I'm reasonable or smart enoughto sort of like figure out these
things that I don't know.
But I'm very like open aboutlike here are the expectations
right and so if that's whatyou're looking for, then like
let's talk, and if that's not,like let me help you find
(29:17):
somebody right that you'relooking for.
And so I think just having thisattitude and like really
knowing you know where you'veexcelled in life and like what
brings you energy and what youwant to do, regardless of
whether it's a small company orbig company or this sector you
know, or this geography orwhatever, I think like being
able to answer that question oflike what am I really good at?
You know, what can I do?
(29:37):
And then what?
What are areas where I don't doit today?
But I'm confident enough inmyself that I could pick that up
.
Like being able to even justanswer that question for
yourself, I think will helpanchor you in what feels like
you're just floating.
And you know, should I latchmyself and pretend like I love
AI, because it seems likeeverybody is working at an AI
company right now?
Like do I have to go study abunch of things on YouTube to to
(30:00):
to know what I'm talking about?
It's like yes, but if thatdoesn't feel authentic, like you
know, you're going to get foundout.
So it's, I think, like that'sthe sort of like you really got
to answer the questions about.
You know, um, what you want todo, um yeah.
(30:20):
Yeah, I'm someone who's switchedindustries and careers, so I
know that those are questions Ihave to keep asking myself.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
That's right, as I'm like I kind of think I'm
tumbling along and then I'm likeno, you've been pretty
intentional about your choicesall along the way when you, when
you have those types ofquestions to guide you.
So I think that's, those arepretty powerful.
So I was fangirling about thegreat chat podcast oh my gosh
(30:55):
the reason is because I feltlike, um, you guys will have a
different set of voices aroundthe technology space.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Oh, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I mean I'm like I'm winking at you, yeah, yeah, yeah
, you know like it was I also.
It's like when I'm sitting witha group of friends and just
like gnawing on work issuesbecause we care about them, it's
part of our lives, they, theymatter to us, um, and it isn't
like and I get a chance to learnand grow through those candid,
(31:30):
fun and pointed conversations.
I think in those conversations,I think there's a lot of mojo,
like I think you guys are likefeeling yourselves, you're you
know, and you're and you're kindof elevating each other's mojo,
like you're, you're like that'sa huge part of it.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
We didn't touch on that.
That is such a huge part of it,right, um, and it's okay to
need it as well.
Yeah, yeah, okay To need it,yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, they talk about like vibe coding.
It's like vibe mojo, likeyou're in there and you start,
and when other people areconfident and caring and bring
you in then you're able to beconfident and caring and elevate
.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
And so.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I'm curious what's something about leadership that
requires more mojo than people?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
realize you can't do it all by yourself.
And you know, I think a lot ofleaders have disclosed.
They work with a leadershipcoach or they have a really
special relationship with amentor, or they've got maybe you
know, a girl gang that liftsthem up and reminds them how
great they are, all of thosethings.
So I think these are thingsthat are not visible, but I know
(32:37):
every leader has that versionand so you know the podcast.
It's funny you mentioned this.
But something that all of ushave in common all five of us is
that we're kind of on like asecond chapter of our careers
and so you can kind of look backat the previous with a little
bit more objectivity.
(32:58):
You're not kind of like stillin that on that sort of same
linear path, and I think thatmeans that we're a little bit
more free with, like, ourlessons learned and all of this,
but you know, in the background, as we do prep for these
episodes like.
So, the whole premise of thepodcast is that we want people
to feel like they'reeavesdropping on some trends.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Who are?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
talking about what happened in tech that week.
Oh yeah, and that's exactly howit feels Some evergreen topic
that, you know, we wish peoplewere talking more about when we
were, you know, earlier in ourcareers, and hopefully it does
that.
But behind the scenes, we areencouraging each other to share
stories, we are encouraging eachother to, you know, like, say
(33:39):
something that we know thatthey're really, they have the
authority to say because wethink so highly of them, or we
remind them that they have theauthority to say that, you know,
I think that's that's all ofthat behind the scenes, sort of
you know stuff that happens ineven in podcast episode prep,
right, that's happening in reallife.
So yeah, I think like find asupport network or find a coach
(34:00):
or find somebody who's doingthat for you and reminding you
of the progress that you'remaking and you know, sort of
like everything that you'veaccomplished.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I love it.
I also you started off ourepisode talking about the
women's dinners at SherylSandberg's house and having the
opportunity to be in thosedinners.
That's sort of what this is.
It's a chance and it's, butit's at scale and I think it's
like that chance to be at thattable with these amazing women,
um, and and to delight and learnand stretch with them, and so
(34:29):
that's why, that's why I wasfangirling out and um, and and
appreciate it, and I'll alsoanswer the question.
I like that you put me in thehot seat.
We love a good zinger onUnserious.
And so if I was to think about,like, what requires more mojo
than people realize, um, I thinkleaders are constantly having
(34:55):
to navigate and lead throughchange.
It's just every day and youhave to do it, live in front of
a team or in front of a board orin front of customers all the
time, and so I do think itrequires, as you were.
You know, what you've reallybeen sharing about is that it's
like the team, that it's notthat you're that this is that
(35:17):
you need to enlist and inviteand welcome folks to be on that
journey with you, and thatyou're going to get some things
right, some things wrong, butthe intention of trying to do
great work is always there and Ithink we need that a lot right
now.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I'll answer the question as well, since I lobbed
it at you and I think it's fair, is fair.
But I think, and working inexecutive communications, I
think just putting yourself outthere and your voice out there
is it's really hard to and,Helen, you probably feel this
too Like it's really hard to goand review your own work when
(35:58):
you're on stage and when you'reon camera and when you're on on
audio and you have to likethere's this, there are so many
levels of self-acceptance oflike listening to your voice and
you're being like, oh my god, Iactually have to, I actually
have to come to terms with thisand like how I look on camera,
how, how I sound on on audio andum, and that I say um too much,
(36:24):
and all of these little bitsand pieces of who you are, um,
you have to come to terms with.
And I have so much respect forthese leaders who who really are
able to put themselves outthere really all the time,
because it's it's uncomfortable,it's uncomfortable for all of
(36:46):
us and it's it never gets easyand and it's really important
that they do it.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, well, I think about that, even what you were
sharing, JB.
I'm like what can we learn fromAustin Powers?
That guy had some crazysnaggled teeth and was still
landing ladies.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
And so you know that's the ultimate mojo.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
So I do feel like I don't know, I feel like he
didn't slow, didn't slow hisroll, even, even his shenanigans
along the way.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Helen, thank you so much for being on.
Where can folks learn aboutmore about you, about articulate
, about great chat?
Speaker 3 (37:29):
great chat podcom, and we're coming out with season
two in a couple of weeks whichis great.
Yes, we, we got some sponsorsnice sponsors that are allowing
us to have a season two andseason three, which is great.
Yes, we, we got some sponsorsnice sponsors that are allowing
us to have a season two andseason three, which is great.
Uh, you can find me on twitter,that godforsaken site, um, and
I think I'm helen underscore minum, and I'm on linkedin.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Great, say hi we will , and that's the show.
Unserious is produced by micahvono.
Special thanks to our guest,Helen Min.
If this episode made you thinkof a certain friend or coworker
who needs a little more mojo,send them a link to it.
It's an easy way to maintainyour network while helping
Unserious reach more listenerslike you.
(38:14):
If you have questions or ideasfor future episodes, drop us a
line at hello at unseriouscom.
You can also keep up with us onLinkedIn, on Instagram at
unseriousfun or on our websiteat unseriouscom.
At Unserious, we make work play.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
And you leave the Zoom and you're like, wow, I
have no more or less convictionon this company than I did
before.
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