February 13, 2025 • 40 mins
How many of you have that idea for a great business nagging you in the back of your head? The one that you just know will make the judges on Shark Tank swoon? Or maybe it’s another idea altogether… writing a book, an adventure, going back to school to pivot your career? What is it that urges us to take that leap of faith and move forward? It’s not always about a perfectly executed plan. Sometimes it’s about resilience, having the right people around you, and more than a little bit of hustle.
In this final episode of season 3, J.B. and Molly kick off their shoes with Bianca to talk about what it takes to turn an idea into a thriving brand, the lessons she carried from Facebook into her own company, and why community is everything in business and in life.
"I never put pressure on myself to start a company. It was like this nagging thing I had to figure out if I could solve." - Bianca Gates
Follow Bianca on Instagram @biancagates and check out Birdies at birdies.com.
Follow Unserious in your podcast app, at unserious.com, and on Instagram and Threads at @unserious.fun.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, Molly here.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
JB here Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
And we know we have been a little bit quiet.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yes, we have.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yes, we have, but we're so excited to come back
with one more big one to closeout our third season of
Unserious.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We have invited the founder of a shoe brand that we
know and love.
We think that you may, too, andit's just a fantastic
conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It really is so more soon, and for now, please enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Take care.
This is Unserious.
How many of you have had thatgreat idea for a business
nagging in the back of your head, the one that you just know
(00:51):
will make the judges on SharkTank swoon?
Or maybe it's another ideaaltogether, like writing a book,
or an adventure going back toschool to pivot your career.
What is it that urges us totake that leap of faith and move
forward?
It's not always about aperfectly executed plan.
Sometimes it's about resilience, having the right people around
(01:12):
you and more than a little bitof hustle.
I'm JB Skelton here with MollyMcMahon.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hey everyone out there.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And we're joined today by Bianca Gates,
co-founder and CEO of Birdies.
From her early days navigatingthe tech world at Facebook to
turning a casual slipper ideainto a thriving brand, bianca's
story is about finding yourpeople, embracing the hustle and
building something that feelslike home.
You establish Birdies whileworking full-time.
(01:43):
I think a lot of people harborentrepreneurial dreams but are
afraid to take that leap.
Can you share a bit more aboutthe Birdies story?
What made this possible for you?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I mean there were so many factors going into it.
I mean, I think, just havingthe chutzpah, you know, just to
be like, you know how hard canthis be?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Like I've never done anything like this, but you know
how hard could it be.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
But I often think about, like my, my childhood.
I think so much of like whathappens in your early years ends
up just sort of guiding youknow how you make decisions in
the future.
As the first child of four ofimmigrant parents from Latin
America, my mom is from Bolivia,my dad's from Argentina and my
mom married my dad at 17 andmoved to the US after my parents
(02:33):
assimilated quite a bit to theUS culture but also retained a
lot of their like culturaltraditions.
They came here for a betterfuture for the family.
By all means.
We achieved that.
But it was also in the 80swhere I was like tormented for
being, you know, spanishspeaking Latina in a very white
Republican neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Where did you grow up ?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I grew up in Orange County, southern California.
My parents were very strong oneducation so I went to the
private Catholic school but Iwas on financial aid and the
kids reminded me of that.
But I was on financial aid andthe kids reminded me of that,
you know, all the time and mymom would pick me up and only
speak Spanish to me and the kidswould make fun of me that you
know I spoke that funny languageand they would say all sort of
cruel things to me.
So I really always felt like anoutsider within my social
(03:21):
circle.
I only felt safe when I would,I was at home and I just I think
like those moments sort of wereinstilled in me one that I
would never want to makesomebody feel the way I ever
felt, and two during.
You know that your preteenyears, where being a social
outcast is like the mostdevastating thing that can
happen to somebody at that age,also makes you realize like that
(03:42):
didn't kill me, even though itwas the worst thing that could
have happened, as at that agealso makes you realize like that
didn't kill me, even though itwas the worst thing that could
have happened, as at that age.
And so I think you kind of growup and out of that and you're
just like wait a second, likethat was the hardest thing and
it didn't kill me.
I moved on.
I ended up just finding my ownpath, finding my own people
later in life and that's kind ofthe journey I'm going to have
to take forever Find your people, find your community, yeah, and
(04:06):
don't settle.
And and also like, don't takeanyone's crap, like you're just,
you're just working with thewrong people.
You just haven't found yourpeople.
So as I think about like myadult life, I think I've applied
that in so many ways, like Idon't need to feel unsafe or
unhappy and I don't want anyoneelse to feel that way, and so
how can I live my life like that?
And so when I was at Facebook,I mean part of going there was
(04:28):
challenging my own self.
Can I, can I get a?
Can I get a seat at the smartkids table?
Being there, I was just immersed, like we all were and just like
you know we are, I believed inthe mission there of we're
making the world more open andconnected.
Like how freaking awesome, likeyou are making the world more
open and connected.
I was able to communicate withmy family in Latin America for
(04:49):
free, share photos with them ofmy life for free.
This is incredible, and so atthat stage, I felt like anything
was possible, and so, as itrelates to Birdies you know,
birdies was just like a thing inthe back of my mind for a
decade.
I a decade I lived in New York,I lived in Los Angeles, then I
moved to San Francisco and Ilove the idea of building
(05:11):
community at home.
I love the idea of pouring youa big glass of wine and take
your shoes off and stay a while,and I don't cook, but we're
going to order amazing food.
I'm going to dish it up as if Ihad prepared this all day for
you and make my guests feelyummy and invited and loved.
(05:32):
But you know, I wanted everyoneto take off their shoes because
you know and this started in NewYork where they would take off
their boots or they would takeoff, you know, their, their
shoes and they would.
You know, my friends would wearsocks with holes in them or,
you know, they wouldn't have apedicured foot and so it was
kind of embarrassing and you'rejust like God.
If there was only a solutionand I certainly never thought I
would solve it.
But I remember in New Yorkgoing to Bloomingdale's and you
(05:55):
know, to any store and lookingup online like stylish slippers
for entertaining theentertaining space of the home,
and I and I couldn't findanything.
When I'd go to the stores theywould send me to the lingerie
department and I was like Idon't want pajama slippers, I
want entertaining shoes and soand they're wearing like a
cocktail dress and cocktailkitten heels and I'm like we
(06:16):
need to bring that back there's.
There's a beauty in openingyour front door and like, like,
looking your best because you'reexcited to welcome your guest,
(06:36):
and that starts head to toe.
So that had carried on for along time and for years my
family would try to find me thebest entertaining shoes on the
market and would always failbecause they didn't exist.
And so in 2015, I was atFacebook for about four years at
that point maybe three and ahalf years my husband just
looked at me and said you know,you've been talking about this
(06:58):
like social slipper problem foras long as I've known you over a
decade Like why don't you justsolve it once and for all?
And as long as I've known youover a decade, like why don't
you just solve it once and forall?
And I thought you know you'reout of your mind.
Like I don't know anythingabout design or production or
footwear or retail, not tomention I loved my job.
I had two little kids, so I waslike this is, this is crazy.
(07:18):
And then that night I rememberputting my kids to bed.
They were like I don't knowfour and one.
And I thought, like could I doit?
Like is like what would theylook like?
And you know what would theyfeel like?
And so I started to just writedown my thoughts and like Google
search, you know, socialslippers, stylish slippers.
And the next week I wentshopping and I bought a bunch of
(07:40):
shoes and I started cuttingthem up and taping all the
components together to createthis new type of shoe with
existing materials.
And I was like I don't know,like I never got to the point of
this could be a company or abusiness.
It was just like that thingjust got me thinking and you
just kind of like it takes youto the next place and the next
place and the next place, andthen you know years later this
(08:03):
is what it is.
So I guess I never put anypressure on myself to start a
company or be an entrepreneur.
It was just like this naggingthing in the back of my mind
that I just had to figure out ifI could solve it besides your
husband, who else did you talkto about this?
Well, when it was a problem thatI couldn't find the shoes,
everybody I'm like hey, doesanybody have you know?
But nobody was wearingentertaining shoes at home.
(08:25):
And then, once he placed this,this seed, in my head, I talked
to everybody.
You know, when I, when I talkedto people and they're like I'm
starting a business, but I'm instealth mode, I'm like what does
that even mean?
Like an idea is worthless.
If I had told you I'm going tostart a slipper shoe company,
you would have been like that's,that's a dumb idea.
Like you know, whatever, Likethe idea doesn't matter, it's
(08:45):
how you execute the vision thatmatters.
So I was never in stealth mode.
I told everybody.
In fact, most of my successover the next couple years after
starting birdies came from myrelationships at Facebook and
within my own small socialnetwork, because I was telling
everybody about it.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
How did you meet your business partner Marissa?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Marissa and I met when we were both living in New
York.
This was pre-Facebook and itwas 2005.
I was working for, I think, mtvat the time and in ad sales.
Our boyfriends at the time hadjust started at Stanford
Business School in Palo Alto andthey made the connection that
(09:26):
their girlfriends were bothliving across the country in New
York City, so they introducedus to one another.
We met and we fell in loveimmediately, although we could
not be more polar opposites, Imean in every way.
She's petite, I'm tall, she'sblonde, I'm brunette, she's
Jewish, I'm Catholic.
She went to the fancy schoolsCornell undergrad, wharton, mba.
(09:47):
I did not.
I do not have an MBA.
She was at Bain Consulting, Iwas in media sales, and so just
so different.
And yet we just fell in lovewith the idea of just loving on
people.
And yet we just fell in lovewith the idea of just like
loving on people.
And also we had no otherhobbies other than like work was
our hobby, like we loved towork, we'd love to solve
problems and we'd love to makemoney, and so, like for us,
(10:09):
getting his dream job from NewYork City.
He became the chief marketingofficer of the Sacramento Kings
and he had actually grown up inSacramento, so they moved out to
(10:29):
Sacramento.
She then had to leave her bigjob running all of strategy for
Ross Dress for Last Stores andfound herself in Sacramento in
this big house in the suburbsand trying to figure out what
she was going to do nextprofessionally.
And remember, like we are nothobby people, our hobby is our
work.
So she was trying to figure outwhat next and it was around the
(10:50):
same time that I was like I hadthis like annoying slipper
problem and so I mentioned it toher one day and I was like, hey
, listen, if you're thinking ofdoing something and while you're
like looking for your next bigcareer move, like why don't we
do this together?
And then it just kind of.
It really just sort of justtook off really fast, but I was
still at Facebook, so we startedthis in 2015.
(11:12):
And in February of 2015, Itexted her with this idea and we
launched in November of 2015.
And just, the businesscontinued to accelerate until
2017.
When I had to make the decisionof like do I stay or do I leave
Facebook for this, you know,unknown path.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
We like to play a little game on this show that we
call Hire Fire Boss.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Oh, okay, I got it yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
We give you a fictional team and an assignment
and you have to pick one tohire, one to fire and one to be
your boss.
One to fire and one to be yourboss, and the task at hand is
leading Birdie's expansion intosustainable activewear.
(12:10):
And you have a choice betweenthree superstar women
entrepreneurs Martha Stewart,founder of Martha Stewart, on
the Media, and Martha StewartLiving.
You have Sarah Blakely, founderof Spanx, and now Sneaks, and
then you have everyone'sfavorite singer, entrepreneur
(12:33):
Rihanna, multi-platinum Grammywinning artist and founder of
Fenty Beauty and Savas X Fenty.
So you have to pick one to hire, one to fire, one to be your
boss.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
God, this is really hard.
And you're doing this on aFriday afternoon, like my brain
has already been shutting down.
That's not nice.
Welcome back.
Well, okay, I did just watchthe Martha Stewart documentary,
if you haven't.
It was so good.
So I think I am going to hireSarah Blakely because I'm really
(13:13):
focused on wholesale expansionover the next couple of years
and she's done a tremendous jobthere over the next couple years
and she's done a tremendous jobthere.
I am going to work for MarthaStewart because, even when you
know things are good and notgood and whatever, she just
continues to just reinventherself and crush it.
And Rihanna, like I love her asa musician, I don't think she
(13:36):
quite fits the profile for likethe birdies girl, so I couldn't
leverage her in any othercapacity.
So I'm going to remain a fan,but I'm going to have to go fire
Rihanna, that's okay, rihannawill be fine.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
It's going to be just fine.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, it's so funny.
Like I, I also had SarahBlakely as being somebody who
I'd want to work with.
I feel like she's you know Idon't know about her wholesale
expansion, but I bet I can learnmore about that from you.
I actually fired Martha Stewartbecause I feel like Martha is
(14:16):
she's a badass, but she'd be agreat partner.
Like I want to be on thecooking show with her and snoop
dogg, yeah, and I think we'reall in rihanna's world, whether
we realize it or not, and Ithink the um, I actually think
that a lot of her products arelike the includes inclusiveness
and affordability makes it likehighly accessible for such a
(14:37):
superstar.
I don don't know, I really likelove that about her.
So that's my team, jb, howabout you?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I'm pretty aligned with you.
I fired Martha as well.
I have such.
I have tons of admiration forher.
Like the line in thatdocumentary was for me that just
like that that entiredocumentary was centered around
(15:04):
was, I crawled out of a hole.
I found myself in a hole that Ihad to crawl out of and she's,
she's absolutely amazing.
I also think that she showssome real toxic attributes as a
leader that are hard to getaround.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Ooh, this is a whole nother conversation.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, it is another conversation.
What is it to be the?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
first woman billionaire.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
No, I think I don't know that it's so.
That is always what it'sscapegoated, as I think that
there's actually some realcharacter problems there.
I think that she's absolutelyamazing as a business person.
I have huge respect for her.
I also have like the whole ofthese two things can be true
(15:56):
Sarah Blakely probably I had ahard time like boss or hire and
God, just the things thatRihanna knows about connecting
with an audience.
I think she's an incrediblemarketer, so I would hire
Rihanna and my boss would beSarah Blakely.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
How did you two come up with the name Birdies?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
When I was at Facebook I worked with mostly
like West Coast based retailers.
So Gap Inc was one of myclients whom I adored, and Gap
Inc has Gap Brand, bananaRepublic, old Navy you know, as
a salesperson, I think the bestthing we can do is just try to
understand what their problemsare that they're trying to solve
.
And so one day I just asked thechief marketing officer of Old
Navy can I sit in one of yourmeetings as your Facebook rep to
(16:54):
understand, like, what are yourmarketing challenges?
Like how can Facebook help?
So she was lovely and invitedme in and I remember sitting in
the meeting and she was talkingabout their one customer that
they design and sell to.
I was like wow, like they'renot talking about the millions
of customers or the billions ofdollars in market cap like they,
they're just talking about oneperson.
So I remember coming home and wewere, you know, early on with
(17:17):
with birdies and talking toMarissa and just saying like
who's our customer?
And you know, what does she?
What does she look like, whatdoes she do, how old is she?
Does she have kids?
What car does she drive, wheredoes she live?
What does she have forbreakfast?
And so we went through thiswhole exercise and then we fell
in love with and we're like,well, we need to give her a name
(17:38):
.
And so we went through allthese names and you know, too
cold or too you know feels likeshe's like an old lady or too
mean girl name, and you know allthese things.
And then all of a sudden wecame across Birdie and we're
like Birdie's awesome.
Like Birdie reminds me of, likethe sort of like the 1950s
housewife.
Know birdie, but then alsoshe's like a badass and like
(17:59):
awesome and she's your friendthat like shares all her
information with you and she,she, she's ambitious but yet you
always think she's likedrinking all day because she's a
little tipsy like all the timeand you're like you too, you
girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I love birdie, you love birdie.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
So we were like either you want to be birdie or
you want your best friend to beBirdie, or you want your best
friend to be Birdie, and so wekind of landed on our customer
is Birdie, and we startedtelling people about this, and
then people just kept sayinghow's Birdies, how's Birdies,
how's Birdies.
And we were like maybe thatshould be the name of the
company Birdies.
Well, I'm curious,no-transcript.
(18:48):
That money just allowed us tobuy our product.
There were there's likeminimums that you have to buy
when, when creating shoes, andso we had no money left over for
like sales and marketing oranything like that.
So when the shoes arrived inNovember of 2015, it was it was
by total accident that theyarrived like a few weeks before
Thanksgiving, because it waslike that aha moment of like
(19:09):
yeah, what do I wear on thetable for Thanksgiving when I'm,
you know, dressed in jeans anda chunky, comfy sweater?
We just posted on our Facebookpages we had to buy 1800 pairs
of shoes.
They were all stored in hergarage and she was like how the
hell are we going to get rid ofthese?
Between the two of us, I think,we literally had like 1800
friends on Facebook, and so wewere like let's just post on
(19:29):
Facebook for free that we werelaunching this like slipper shoe
company and and like, dear God,hopefully all of our friends
just buy us out.
We make our money back andwe're done because this was a
fun, you know, year long journey.
But like this is crazy that weactually have physical product.
We have to move now.
And so when we launched onFacebook within our, you know,
our Facebook pages, obviouslyour friends and family rallied
(19:51):
around us and it just gave uslike a lot of momentum and
excitement.
And then some friends wereconnected with members of the
press, which was helpful, and wehad a big press piece that came
out in the San FranciscoChronicle in February, both in
print and online.
These things just started tolike pick up and by the end of
2016, we launched the secondcollection.
We got better.
(20:11):
You know, we took customerfeedback seriously.
Our shoes were not great, bythe way, so, but our point was,
remember JB, like there were allthese posters at Facebook that
said, like done is better thanperfect and keep shipping.
Like I took that to my core.
I was like, listen, we don'tneed to perfect this shoe,
because if nobody wants it, whocares if it's perfect?
But if we get it to 80% goodand everyone returns it because
(20:34):
the product sucks, but thatthere's real like market
opportunity here.
Then we can go back and perfectthe product, and that's what we
did.
And so when we launched thesecond round in 2016, we had
recouped our money, we wereprofitable, so we reinvested in
making better products in 2016.
That's when we thought whichcelebrity would we give one pair
of shoes to?
And that's when we landed onMeghan Markle as our, as our
(20:55):
muse.
Oh wow, we had gone throughthis list of celebrities like
who would be birdie if she was acelebrity?
And we went through every bigA-lister and just like nobody
really was like that perfectbirdie.
And then we got to MeghanMarkle and she was on a cable
show called Suits at the time.
So you know hardly as big of aname as she is today.
But I just said, like that isbirdie, like she is
(21:16):
unequivocally our girl, she isBertie.
And at Facebook I told this tosomebody and he said, oh my gosh
, my cousin works at a PR firmthat I think knows Megan Markle
and can get her a pair ofBerties.
And I was like, let's do it.
And so he ended up getting thefirst pair to Megan and a few
(21:37):
months later she started wearingus and that really got us out
of our our own social circle andby the beginning of January of
2017, we had investor interest.
We were way very profitable.
We were getting written up inlike every main magazine out
there and with a lot of investorinterest.
(21:59):
At the time, I knew that Icould not take outside capital
unless I was doing this fulltime.
I got an email in like Februaryof 2017 from Andy Dunn.
He's the co founder of bonobosand he just said like I've been
following this journey withbirdies, I think this is going
to be huge.
I would love to invest and Ihave a lot of friends who'd love
to invest if you're open to it.
(22:28):
Wow, and that really, yeah, thatreally made me stop and pause
and I was excited, but at thesame time, for me giving up my
career that I loved at Facebookand giving up my income and as a
as a woman, I always wanted tomake sure that I felt like I was
like independent financiallyand this would be the first time
where I would be really relianton my husband for our finances
and that was a scary place to be.
So I reached out to CherylSandberg, who was my mentor
(22:50):
during my time at Facebook, andI shared this challenge with her
and I thought for sure she'd belike listen, that's cute that
you have this whole like slipperbusiness, but, like you know,
you have a seat on the rocketship here at Facebook, like
don't mess around.
And I was kind of hoping shewould say that and instead she
was like Are you kidding me?
Like this is incredible, likeyou are on to something so big.
(23:11):
And she told me stories abouther own social slipper dilemma
and you know, and how proud shewas and how birdies was so great
.
And she's like listen, like notthat you ever need this, but if
you ever ever want to come backto Facebook, you always have a
seat back here.
So like go, you know, spreadyour wings.
And so that was when I knew,you know, that was like the
moment where I was like I haveinvestor interest, we have real
(23:32):
sales, we're profitable.
And my mentor was like this isit.
And I have to give my husbandcredit too, you know he was
really really, really supportivethroughout and was like you
know, I got you covered, babe.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Like we got this just to have that belief from him is
amazing every, it's literallyeverything yeah, we hear a lot
about hustle culture.
We hear a lot about thefounder's mindset.
Are these the same thing thatwe're talking about?
Do you, do you think of thoseas the same thing, and what do
(24:04):
they mean to you?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I think anybody can be, have a hustler mentality and
you don't have to be a founder.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And like I might, one of my first jobs is I worked at
macaroni grill during collegeand I waited tables there.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And I think you learn so much by working in a
restaurant.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And you're hustling.
But like I hustled.
And at the time it's an Italianrestaurant, so everybody had
like a red towel over theirshoulder, unless you were like a
VIP server and like the best,and they'd give you a green
towel.
And so I always use thisanalogy of like don't be the red
(24:41):
towel in life, be the greentowel.
Like you know to be the redtowel, you have to show up.
You have to show up on time,you have to do a good job.
You know you can't mess up, butlike that's your job.
And like that's a red towel.
But a green towel hustles,they're like.
They're like raising their hand.
I would go to every table with abottle of wine and I'm like for
sure you want a bottle of winetonight because I knew that 20%
of that of that bill was goingin my pocket as a tip and the
(25:01):
higher I could make their billand, by the way, make their
experience that much better.
Through, you know, the food andthe wine, everybody wins.
That's hustle.
And do you have to be a founderto have that mentality?
Absolutely not.
But I do think that as afounder, you have to have a
hustler mentality or you'regoing to be dead in the water.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
So how do you build that culture amongst your team?
And your team is growing quitebig now.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yeah, yeah, we now have offices in New York, which
is exciting.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You've got dozens and dozens of people working with
you.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, when I was at Facebook I was at the highest
individual contributor level,the highest IC level, and the
hard thing for me was like if Iwanted to keep growing there,
I'd have to then go and pivotinto management and I hated
everything about management,like I did not want to do that.
And so there's kind of aceiling with this hustler
(25:51):
mentality of like and then youhave to go into management and
it's like it depletes my energyand so I never did that.
And then when I started birdies, I never thought about like and
then I'll be managing peopleand a company and I found myself
doing that and I think I'velike worn many different.
You know manager hats to try tofigure out which type of
manager I'd be and like that'sterrible.
Like as a CEO, you want to kindof like roll out of the job,
(26:12):
like knowing how to lead, and Ididn't.
And so I think at times I try tocreate this like hustle
mentality or I assume, becauseI'd never managed people before,
that everybody was like me andthen I realized like they
weren't and that would frustrateme and then I would get like
very annoyed and irritated andlike they would not be happy and
(26:34):
satisfied.
And there was, and irritatedand like they would not be happy
and satisfied.
And there was, there were manyyears where I was like not
crushing it, I was not hiringthe right people for the culture
that I needed, right, like Ithink these are great smart
people, but like I needed ahustler mentality and I think a
lot of these people you knowsometimes would see like female
founded you know they're goingto be this.
(26:56):
It might I don't know maybelike it might just be more
balanced to work there becauseshe's a mom and you know we're a
mom and and you know, andmeanwhile I'm like no, no, no,
like that means we have to likereally double down here, and so
I don't, I don't think you cancreate a hustle culture with,
unless you're hiring people thatreally want to hustle.
You either have it or you likeyou don't.
(27:17):
You either want to go work at abig company because you just
you want to do a good job andlike that's about it, or you
want to start at a start.
You work at a startup becauseyou're just like you're swinging
for the fences and like that isawesome, like you can't imagine
just doing your job and goinghome like that seems terrible,
and so you have to find thepeople that match the culture
that you want to create, and formany years I wasn't matching it
(27:38):
because I didn't realize thatthat was a culture.
I just thought it was normal,and so I think I've gotten a lot
better at that.
But you have to find the rightpeople.
I think it's really hard tocreate a culture that you want
and not find the people thatmatch up with that culture.
It's just, it's not going towork.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I definitely see young Bianca, who was picked on
just like dusting herself offand just like building like the
resilience that you built earlyon really paying off now I I was
bullied as a kid for being gayvery different, different kind
of situation, also Catholicschool.
(28:15):
It was awful at the time and ittotally informed who I am and
how I move through the world now.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
It's so interesting because I remember you at
Facebook like you were likeskipping through the hallways,
like you are like jolly JB, likejust such a positive guy.
But it's interesting to hearyou say this because I think you
can.
You can go two ways.
When you're bullied, you couldeither be angry at the world and
let it consume you, or you canjust be like you know what that
(28:47):
didn't kill me and like that's,it's their problem, like they
have hatred in their heart andlike how sad for them.
I don't, I'm happy the way I amand who I am, and so I'm going
to skip around.
But I think it is a choiceright To just overcome it or to
let it take you down and, jb,like you, you are such a joyful
(29:07):
person.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
I really am that gay.
I did skip around.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Well, I would say joyful JB.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Joyful JB.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Yeah, so we talked a bit aboutmentorship and some of the
(29:36):
incredible mentors that you'vehad, but I imagine now you are
spending more of your timementoring rather than being
mentored.
Tell me about some of theentrepreneurs that you're
working with now as a mentor.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Okay, can we talk about the word mentorship for a
second?
Because I get asked, I getasked this a lot and I got asked
a lot like how did you getCheryl to mentor you?
Right, as like an example,right, like that's like who you
know, she's, she is justincredible and I feel so
fortunate.
But like it never happens theway people think it happens.
(30:10):
Like you know, it's not likeI'm like this year I'm going to
mentor five people and like I'mgoing to pick those five people,
like the way and Cheryl sharedthis years ago.
And I think like over time I'velearned.
I've learned to realize likeshe's so right, like mentorship
is a two way street, you know,like like we, there's, like
there's a give on both sides,like it really is a relationship
(30:33):
where both are benefiting fromit.
And so it's like I think whenpeople think about mentorship,
they're like you're going totell me what to do, I'm going to
do it, and then I'm going to beas successful as you, and like
that's not, that's not the rightway to look at it.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It's friendship.
I feel like it's much more it'sfriendship.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
It's like having a relationship with you know with
an older, wiser person and, bythe way, that older, wiser
person wants to learn.
you know what are the challengesof our generation's time, like
they're interested there, and soit has to be a two way street.
You know, sponsorship in acompany I think is very
different.
You know you need, you need anally to be able to like support
what you're doing next.
But like mentorship, you know,with like me and Cheryl or
(31:12):
somebody you know at that, likelevel of experience and wisdom,
is very rare.
But what I tell people, likepeer to peer mentorship, is not
rare and that can be done withinyour network, within your
control, at any time.
And I just gave this speech acouple weeks ago here in San
Francisco, and I started off bysaying this quote that I love,
(31:33):
which is show me your fiveclosest friends and I will tell
you who you are.
The people you surroundyourself with are going to help
make you who you want to be orwho you are, and, like your
peers, are your mentors.
If you are hanging aroundpeople who are negative, you're
going to be a negative person.
If you're hanging around fivepeople who are positive, you're
(31:54):
going to be the sixth positiveperson.
If you hang around five peoplewho are positive, you're going
to be the sixth positive person.
If you hang around fivesuccessful people, guess what?
You're going to be the sixthand so like that's available to
us all the time, but people needto take ownership and
accountability of like who arethey hanging out with, because
that will reflect who they areand who they become later in
life.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I love that.
I'm curious, even like thinkingabout your like five, five
friends, or you know mentors inyour life.
I'm curious what the role ofmentors have been in helping you
build your business.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
In 2011, I had my second child and I had just
started Facebook, like a yearbefore.
I was commuting an hour and ahalf each way.
I had a three-year-old and anewborn, and and also just like
drinking from a fire hose, as wedid, you know, we were like
learning as we went along atFacebook.
So it was a lot, and I had alot of people around me just
(32:48):
saying, like you know, whyaren't you staying home with
your children?
You know, including, like my,my, my parents' generation and
their friends, like theycouldn't understand that my mom
was a stay-at-home mom.
They would say things like yourchildren need you.
I would never leave my kid witha stranger, you know.
When I said, well, no, we havea full-time nanny.
And so I was like this sucks,like, and then I started to
(33:10):
question my own self.
I'm like, should I be, you knowthis all wrong?
And so Cheryl had this sort oflike, this like underground
dinner party at dinner partiesat her house, and she would
invite a few of us women to goand the purpose was to just talk
about the challenges of ourtime, and these were like women
I had only ever read about,right?
(33:31):
So, like, imagine me.
I'm just like, oh my god, like,just don't even look at me, I
like I don't deserve it, but I'mgonna learn.
And oh my God, like, just don'teven look at me, I like I don't
deserve it, but I'm going tolearn.
And so, right after I had my sonin 2011, I saw Cheryl at the
holiday party it was like amonth before I went back to work
from maternity leave and I saidI want to start something like
that you have, but like with mypeers, like do you have a
formula of like how you make itso sticky?
And she was, like I'm comingout with a book in six months
(33:55):
called Lean In, with a call toaction to create these like lean
in circle, these smallcommunities.
If you have a group of women Ican share with you sort of like
what I think is like is like theright framework for it.
And so, sure enough, in Januaryof 2012, we launched it Ten
women at my home.
We met every third Thursday ofthe month for an entire year.
(34:15):
That was the commitment.
You could not miss more thanone meeting or you'd be kicked
out.
You could not be late, youcould not leave early.
This was not book club.
This was not mail bashing.
This was all about like womenwho want to lean in
professionally and have a family, and like let's support each
other.
That group has been meetingevery single month for the last
12 years.
Wow, we have not missed a month.
(34:38):
We take a break in the summer,but not one month, because the
rule is you can't.
So we've lost a couple womenwho, you know, unfortunately
couldn't keep up with thosedemands, but there are nine of
us that have still met.
And so when I talk about findingyour community and like the
idea of mentorship through,through peer to peer mentorship,
like I really mean it.
And now, 12 years later, youknow you, you look back and
(35:00):
you're like, wow, I rememberwhen I was making the decision
to leave Facebook or to stay,and I remember when you were
thinking about changing careers,and I remember when you were,
you know, having your firstchild and unsure, and we were
all there and we made it okay tolean in professionally and lean
in personally.
That like nothing, none of thenone of the chatter around us
mattered, like I didn't evenlisten to anybody who would, who
(35:21):
would question my decision tostay in the workforce and have
children, like they didn'tmatter because I had my circle
and so I tell people that allthe time meet with your people
and not just like a little biteverywhere, but go deep.
Go deep with that circle,because that's how you really
feel connected and like trulynothing else.
Nobody else in the worldmatters as much as what these
(35:42):
humans in front of you say.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I love it.
To me it also it's like ithelps de-risk your choices
because you have you have peoplearound you that are helping
like address your blind spots,that are encouraging you.
If something doesn't go right,they lift you back up, like
that's exactly right.
It's so invaluable to have thatum, and I think I I mean I
definitely followed the, thelean in movement, because I just
(36:05):
thought women don't have, likewe haven't made time to have
that kind of mentorship or orsponsorship.
So starting to starting to makethose shifts in, like the value
of our time and our timetogether and how important that
is molly, you totally hit thenail on the head there.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Like I remember, like pre lean in my circle, like I
was, you know, commuting an hourand a half and I had to race
home, go to the grocery store,relieve the nanny, you know, get
the kids down, whatever.
And my husband would go have abeer after work with, like a
colleague and I'm like I'm goingto kill you, like why do you
get to go have a beer?
I'm at the grocery store andI'm relieving the nanny and he's
(36:42):
like I never asked you to dothat.
Like have the nanny stay anextra hour, go have a glass of
wine with a colleague and I waslike what, that's preposterous,
how could I possibly?
And then I would hear him talkto these same friends when
they're like negotiating offersat another company and like hey,
man, like you know how much arethey paying over there.
What do you think about this?
Or how should I handle that?
I was like I don't really havethose people.
(37:03):
Like who would I ask If I wereto ask for a promotion or for
more money?
Like how would I even?
Who would I even go to?
So I was like you know whatYou're right and that you know
we can have cereal one night aweek for dinner if we need to
like, that's okay, but we haveto encourage women to carve out
time every day for thatconversation, because you're not
(37:25):
gonna get promoted just becauseyou're a good worker bee.
You get promoted because youunderstand the future challenges
and how to have thoseconversations and who to have
them with.
And that only happens whenyou're talking about them
outside of work and before youget to the house.
Yeah, we don't do that enough,no, and that, I think, limits us
and we do it ourselves.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, absolutely Well , even I can say in my own
experience I, you know, I didn'tgrow up specifically talking
about like finances and how,like how money works in the
world today, like that wasn't.
I think I'm a little old lady,but that those were, those were
just not expectations, I think,on me and I spent this last
weekend with a group ofgirlfriends and our PJs talking
(38:06):
about like money and estateplanning and where are we
investing?
We also talked aboutelectrolysis and those types of
things.
We were like what do you do,Like what's happening.
But, but I I didn't.
I don't feel like I had thatnetwork when I was younger, but
I just think that it's.
It's really important,particularly where women are in
(38:27):
the world of work and societytoday, so it feels really
important.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
And doable.
You know, like you don't haveto find this.
You know Sheryl Sandberg mentor, you don't need to have.
You know, grown up knowing howfinances work.
Like you can make that decisiontoday to find those people and
to start having thoseconversations.
I mean, in my group we're alltalking about, like, hormone
replacement therapy.
I talked to my mom about it andshe's like we never talked
about that, like I don't evenknow what that is, and I'm like,
well, you know, I have no ideahow to navigate this, and
(38:55):
neither does my doctor, by theway.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
So like we're all going to have to figure it out
together.
That is a whole podcast episode, because I had to talk to my
mom about it.
She was like wait, what isgoing on?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And she was like I'm going to really struggle in that
one.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I'm going to struggle in that podcast.
That'll be Bianca and I.
That'll be Bianca and.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
I That'll be.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Bianca and.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I yeah.
Anyways, bianca, where canpeople keep up with you?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Oh my God, I feel like an influencer.
I'm like well, I'm, you know atBianca Gates on Instagram and
check out our site, broodiescom.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Fabulous Thank you.
This has been an amazingconversation and we've learned
so much from you on this one.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
You're the best JB.
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I'm so honored to be on your show.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I'm so honored to have you here and that's the
show.
If you like this episode,please share it with your
friends and drop us a rating andreview it while you're at it.
Keep up with us on LinkedIn.
Our Instagram handle is atunseriousfun and our website is
(40:00):
unseriouscom, where you can findall of our previous episodes
and show notes.
At Unserious, we make work play.
I'm JB Skelton, here with MollyMcMahon.
Hello, hello, super cool, younailed it, nailed it.
(40:31):
Hello, from the top, from thetop.
Hey everybody, Molly here.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
JB here Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
And we know we have been a little bit quiet.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yes, we have.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yes, we have, but we're so excited to come back
with one more big one to closeout our third season of
Unserious.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We have invited the founder of a shoe brand that we
know and love.
We think that you may, too, andit's just a fantastic
conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It really is so more soon, and for now, please enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Take care.
This is Unserious.
How many of you have had thatgreat idea for a business
nagging in the back of your head, the one that you just know
(00:51):
will make the judges on SharkTank swoon?
Or maybe it's another ideaaltogether, like writing a book,
or an adventure going back toschool to pivot your career.
What is it that urges us totake that leap of faith and move
forward?
It's not always about aperfectly executed plan.
Sometimes it's about resilience, having the right people around
(01:12):
you and more than a little bitof hustle.
I'm JB Skelton here with MollyMcMahon.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hey everyone out there.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And we're joined today by Bianca Gates,
co-founder and CEO of Birdies.
From her early days navigatingthe tech world at Facebook to
turning a casual slipper ideainto a thriving brand, bianca's
story is about finding yourpeople, embracing the hustle and
building something that feelslike home.
You establish Birdies whileworking full-time.
(01:43):
I think a lot of people harborentrepreneurial dreams but are
afraid to take that leap.
Can you share a bit more aboutthe Birdies story?
What made this possible for you?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I mean there were so many factors going into it.
I mean, I think, just havingthe chutzpah, you know, just to
be like, you know how hard canthis be?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Like I've never done anything like this, but you know
how hard could it be.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
But I often think about, like my, my childhood.
I think so much of like whathappens in your early years ends
up just sort of guiding youknow how you make decisions in
the future.
As the first child of four ofimmigrant parents from Latin
America, my mom is from Bolivia,my dad's from Argentina and my
mom married my dad at 17 andmoved to the US after my parents
(02:33):
assimilated quite a bit to theUS culture but also retained a
lot of their like culturaltraditions.
They came here for a betterfuture for the family.
By all means.
We achieved that.
But it was also in the 80swhere I was like tormented for
being, you know, spanishspeaking Latina in a very white
Republican neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Where did you grow up ?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I grew up in Orange County, southern California.
My parents were very strong oneducation so I went to the
private Catholic school but Iwas on financial aid and the
kids reminded me of that.
But I was on financial aid andthe kids reminded me of that,
you know, all the time and mymom would pick me up and only
speak Spanish to me and the kidswould make fun of me that you
know I spoke that funny languageand they would say all sort of
cruel things to me.
So I really always felt like anoutsider within my social
(03:21):
circle.
I only felt safe when I would,I was at home and I just I think
like those moments sort of wereinstilled in me one that I
would never want to makesomebody feel the way I ever
felt, and two during.
You know that your preteenyears, where being a social
outcast is like the mostdevastating thing that can
happen to somebody at that age,also makes you realize like that
(03:42):
didn't kill me, even though itwas the worst thing that could
have happened, as at that agealso makes you realize like that
didn't kill me, even though itwas the worst thing that could
have happened, as at that age.
And so I think you kind of growup and out of that and you're
just like wait a second, likethat was the hardest thing and
it didn't kill me.
I moved on.
I ended up just finding my ownpath, finding my own people
later in life and that's kind ofthe journey I'm going to have
to take forever Find your people, find your community, yeah, and
(04:06):
don't settle.
And and also like, don't takeanyone's crap, like you're just,
you're just working with thewrong people.
You just haven't found yourpeople.
So as I think about like myadult life, I think I've applied
that in so many ways, like Idon't need to feel unsafe or
unhappy and I don't want anyoneelse to feel that way, and so
how can I live my life like that?
And so when I was at Facebook,I mean part of going there was
(04:28):
challenging my own self.
Can I, can I get a?
Can I get a seat at the smartkids table?
Being there, I was just immersed, like we all were and just like
you know we are, I believed inthe mission there of we're
making the world more open andconnected.
Like how freaking awesome, likeyou are making the world more
open and connected.
I was able to communicate withmy family in Latin America for
(04:49):
free, share photos with them ofmy life for free.
This is incredible, and so atthat stage, I felt like anything
was possible, and so, as itrelates to Birdies you know,
birdies was just like a thing inthe back of my mind for a
decade.
I a decade I lived in New York,I lived in Los Angeles, then I
moved to San Francisco and Ilove the idea of building
(05:11):
community at home.
I love the idea of pouring youa big glass of wine and take
your shoes off and stay a while,and I don't cook, but we're
going to order amazing food.
I'm going to dish it up as if Ihad prepared this all day for
you and make my guests feelyummy and invited and loved.
(05:32):
But you know, I wanted everyoneto take off their shoes because
you know and this started in NewYork where they would take off
their boots or they would takeoff, you know, their, their
shoes and they would.
You know, my friends would wearsocks with holes in them or,
you know, they wouldn't have apedicured foot and so it was
kind of embarrassing and you'rejust like God.
If there was only a solutionand I certainly never thought I
would solve it.
But I remember in New Yorkgoing to Bloomingdale's and you
(05:55):
know, to any store and lookingup online like stylish slippers
for entertaining theentertaining space of the home,
and I and I couldn't findanything.
When I'd go to the stores theywould send me to the lingerie
department and I was like Idon't want pajama slippers, I
want entertaining shoes and soand they're wearing like a
cocktail dress and cocktailkitten heels and I'm like we
(06:16):
need to bring that back there's.
There's a beauty in openingyour front door and like, like,
looking your best because you'reexcited to welcome your guest,
(06:36):
and that starts head to toe.
So that had carried on for along time and for years my
family would try to find me thebest entertaining shoes on the
market and would always failbecause they didn't exist.
And so in 2015, I was atFacebook for about four years at
that point maybe three and ahalf years my husband just
looked at me and said you know,you've been talking about this
(06:58):
like social slipper problem foras long as I've known you over a
decade Like why don't you justsolve it once and for all?
And as long as I've known youover a decade, like why don't
you just solve it once and forall?
And I thought you know you'reout of your mind.
Like I don't know anythingabout design or production or
footwear or retail, not tomention I loved my job.
I had two little kids, so I waslike this is, this is crazy.
(07:18):
And then that night I rememberputting my kids to bed.
They were like I don't knowfour and one.
And I thought, like could I doit?
Like is like what would theylook like?
And you know what would theyfeel like?
And so I started to just writedown my thoughts and like Google
search, you know, socialslippers, stylish slippers.
And the next week I wentshopping and I bought a bunch of
(07:40):
shoes and I started cuttingthem up and taping all the
components together to createthis new type of shoe with
existing materials.
And I was like I don't know,like I never got to the point of
this could be a company or abusiness.
It was just like that thingjust got me thinking and you
just kind of like it takes youto the next place and the next
place and the next place, andthen you know years later this
(08:03):
is what it is.
So I guess I never put anypressure on myself to start a
company or be an entrepreneur.
It was just like this naggingthing in the back of my mind
that I just had to figure out ifI could solve it besides your
husband, who else did you talkto about this?
Well, when it was a problem thatI couldn't find the shoes,
everybody I'm like hey, doesanybody have you know?
But nobody was wearingentertaining shoes at home.
(08:25):
And then, once he placed this,this seed, in my head, I talked
to everybody.
You know, when I, when I talkedto people and they're like I'm
starting a business, but I'm instealth mode, I'm like what does
that even mean?
Like an idea is worthless.
If I had told you I'm going tostart a slipper shoe company,
you would have been like that's,that's a dumb idea.
Like you know, whatever, Likethe idea doesn't matter, it's
(08:45):
how you execute the vision thatmatters.
So I was never in stealth mode.
I told everybody.
In fact, most of my successover the next couple years after
starting birdies came from myrelationships at Facebook and
within my own small socialnetwork, because I was telling
everybody about it.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
How did you meet your business partner Marissa?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Marissa and I met when we were both living in New
York.
This was pre-Facebook and itwas 2005.
I was working for, I think, mtvat the time and in ad sales.
Our boyfriends at the time hadjust started at Stanford
Business School in Palo Alto andthey made the connection that
(09:26):
their girlfriends were bothliving across the country in New
York City, so they introducedus to one another.
We met and we fell in loveimmediately, although we could
not be more polar opposites, Imean in every way.
She's petite, I'm tall, she'sblonde, I'm brunette, she's
Jewish, I'm Catholic.
She went to the fancy schoolsCornell undergrad, wharton, mba.
(09:47):
I did not.
I do not have an MBA.
She was at Bain Consulting, Iwas in media sales, and so just
so different.
And yet we just fell in lovewith the idea of just loving on
people.
And yet we just fell in lovewith the idea of just like
loving on people.
And also we had no otherhobbies other than like work was
our hobby, like we loved towork, we'd love to solve
problems and we'd love to makemoney, and so, like for us,
(10:09):
getting his dream job from NewYork City.
He became the chief marketingofficer of the Sacramento Kings
and he had actually grown up inSacramento, so they moved out to
(10:29):
Sacramento.
She then had to leave her bigjob running all of strategy for
Ross Dress for Last Stores andfound herself in Sacramento in
this big house in the suburbsand trying to figure out what
she was going to do nextprofessionally.
And remember, like we are nothobby people, our hobby is our
work.
So she was trying to figure outwhat next and it was around the
(10:50):
same time that I was like I hadthis like annoying slipper
problem and so I mentioned it toher one day and I was like, hey
, listen, if you're thinking ofdoing something and while you're
like looking for your next bigcareer move, like why don't we
do this together?
And then it just kind of.
It really just sort of justtook off really fast, but I was
still at Facebook, so we startedthis in 2015.
(11:12):
And in February of 2015, Itexted her with this idea and we
launched in November of 2015.
And just, the businesscontinued to accelerate until
2017.
When I had to make the decisionof like do I stay or do I leave
Facebook for this, you know,unknown path.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
We like to play a little game on this show that we
call Hire Fire Boss.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Oh, okay, I got it yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
We give you a fictional team and an assignment
and you have to pick one tohire, one to fire and one to be
your boss.
One to fire and one to be yourboss, and the task at hand is
leading Birdie's expansion intosustainable activewear.
(12:10):
And you have a choice betweenthree superstar women
entrepreneurs Martha Stewart,founder of Martha Stewart, on
the Media, and Martha StewartLiving.
You have Sarah Blakely, founderof Spanx, and now Sneaks, and
then you have everyone'sfavorite singer, entrepreneur
(12:33):
Rihanna, multi-platinum Grammywinning artist and founder of
Fenty Beauty and Savas X Fenty.
So you have to pick one to hire, one to fire, one to be your
boss.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
God, this is really hard.
And you're doing this on aFriday afternoon, like my brain
has already been shutting down.
That's not nice.
Welcome back.
Well, okay, I did just watchthe Martha Stewart documentary,
if you haven't.
It was so good.
So I think I am going to hireSarah Blakely because I'm really
(13:13):
focused on wholesale expansionover the next couple of years
and she's done a tremendous jobthere over the next couple years
and she's done a tremendous jobthere.
I am going to work for MarthaStewart because, even when you
know things are good and notgood and whatever, she just
continues to just reinventherself and crush it.
And Rihanna, like I love her asa musician, I don't think she
(13:36):
quite fits the profile for likethe birdies girl, so I couldn't
leverage her in any othercapacity.
So I'm going to remain a fan,but I'm going to have to go fire
Rihanna, that's okay, rihannawill be fine.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
It's going to be just fine.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, it's so funny.
Like I, I also had SarahBlakely as being somebody who
I'd want to work with.
I feel like she's you know Idon't know about her wholesale
expansion, but I bet I can learnmore about that from you.
I actually fired Martha Stewartbecause I feel like Martha is
(14:16):
she's a badass, but she'd be agreat partner.
Like I want to be on thecooking show with her and snoop
dogg, yeah, and I think we'reall in rihanna's world, whether
we realize it or not, and Ithink the um, I actually think
that a lot of her products arelike the includes inclusiveness
and affordability makes it likehighly accessible for such a
(14:37):
superstar.
I don don't know, I really likelove that about her.
So that's my team, jb, howabout you?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I'm pretty aligned with you.
I fired Martha as well.
I have such.
I have tons of admiration forher.
Like the line in thatdocumentary was for me that just
like that that entiredocumentary was centered around
(15:04):
was, I crawled out of a hole.
I found myself in a hole that Ihad to crawl out of and she's,
she's absolutely amazing.
I also think that she showssome real toxic attributes as a
leader that are hard to getaround.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Ooh, this is a whole nother conversation.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, it is another conversation.
What is it to be the?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
first woman billionaire.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
No, I think I don't know that it's so.
That is always what it'sscapegoated, as I think that
there's actually some realcharacter problems there.
I think that she's absolutelyamazing as a business person.
I have huge respect for her.
I also have like the whole ofthese two things can be true
(15:56):
Sarah Blakely probably I had ahard time like boss or hire and
God, just the things thatRihanna knows about connecting
with an audience.
I think she's an incrediblemarketer, so I would hire
Rihanna and my boss would beSarah Blakely.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
How did you two come up with the name Birdies?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
When I was at Facebook I worked with mostly
like West Coast based retailers.
So Gap Inc was one of myclients whom I adored, and Gap
Inc has Gap Brand, bananaRepublic, old Navy you know, as
a salesperson, I think the bestthing we can do is just try to
understand what their problemsare that they're trying to solve
.
And so one day I just asked thechief marketing officer of Old
Navy can I sit in one of yourmeetings as your Facebook rep to
(16:54):
understand, like, what are yourmarketing challenges?
Like how can Facebook help?
So she was lovely and invitedme in and I remember sitting in
the meeting and she was talkingabout their one customer that
they design and sell to.
I was like wow, like they'renot talking about the millions
of customers or the billions ofdollars in market cap like they,
they're just talking about oneperson.
So I remember coming home and wewere, you know, early on with
(17:17):
with birdies and talking toMarissa and just saying like
who's our customer?
And you know, what does she?
What does she look like, whatdoes she do, how old is she?
Does she have kids?
What car does she drive, wheredoes she live?
What does she have forbreakfast?
And so we went through thiswhole exercise and then we fell
in love with and we're like,well, we need to give her a name
(17:38):
.
And so we went through allthese names and you know, too
cold or too you know feels likeshe's like an old lady or too
mean girl name, and you know allthese things.
And then all of a sudden wecame across Birdie and we're
like Birdie's awesome.
Like Birdie reminds me of, likethe sort of like the 1950s
housewife.
Know birdie, but then alsoshe's like a badass and like
(17:59):
awesome and she's your friendthat like shares all her
information with you and she,she, she's ambitious but yet you
always think she's likedrinking all day because she's a
little tipsy like all the timeand you're like you too, you
girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I love birdie, you love birdie.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
So we were like either you want to be birdie or
you want your best friend to beBirdie, or you want your best
friend to be Birdie, and so wekind of landed on our customer
is Birdie, and we startedtelling people about this, and
then people just kept sayinghow's Birdies, how's Birdies,
how's Birdies.
And we were like maybe thatshould be the name of the
company Birdies.
Well, I'm curious,no-transcript.
(18:48):
That money just allowed us tobuy our product.
There were there's likeminimums that you have to buy
when, when creating shoes, andso we had no money left over for
like sales and marketing oranything like that.
So when the shoes arrived inNovember of 2015, it was it was
by total accident that theyarrived like a few weeks before
Thanksgiving, because it waslike that aha moment of like
(19:09):
yeah, what do I wear on thetable for Thanksgiving when I'm,
you know, dressed in jeans anda chunky, comfy sweater?
We just posted on our Facebookpages we had to buy 1800 pairs
of shoes.
They were all stored in hergarage and she was like how the
hell are we going to get rid ofthese?
Between the two of us, I think,we literally had like 1800
friends on Facebook, and so wewere like let's just post on
(19:29):
Facebook for free that we werelaunching this like slipper shoe
company and and like, dear God,hopefully all of our friends
just buy us out.
We make our money back andwe're done because this was a
fun, you know, year long journey.
But like this is crazy that weactually have physical product.
We have to move now.
And so when we launched onFacebook within our, you know,
our Facebook pages, obviouslyour friends and family rallied
(19:51):
around us and it just gave uslike a lot of momentum and
excitement.
And then some friends wereconnected with members of the
press, which was helpful, and wehad a big press piece that came
out in the San FranciscoChronicle in February, both in
print and online.
These things just started tolike pick up and by the end of
2016, we launched the secondcollection.
We got better.
(20:11):
You know, we took customerfeedback seriously.
Our shoes were not great, bythe way, so, but our point was,
remember JB, like there were allthese posters at Facebook that
said, like done is better thanperfect and keep shipping.
Like I took that to my core.
I was like, listen, we don'tneed to perfect this shoe,
because if nobody wants it, whocares if it's perfect?
But if we get it to 80% goodand everyone returns it because
(20:34):
the product sucks, but thatthere's real like market
opportunity here.
Then we can go back and perfectthe product, and that's what we
did.
And so when we launched thesecond round in 2016, we had
recouped our money, we wereprofitable, so we reinvested in
making better products in 2016.
That's when we thought whichcelebrity would we give one pair
of shoes to?
And that's when we landed onMeghan Markle as our, as our
(20:55):
muse.
Oh wow, we had gone throughthis list of celebrities like
who would be birdie if she was acelebrity?
And we went through every bigA-lister and just like nobody
really was like that perfectbirdie.
And then we got to MeghanMarkle and she was on a cable
show called Suits at the time.
So you know hardly as big of aname as she is today.
But I just said, like that isbirdie, like she is
(21:16):
unequivocally our girl, she isBertie.
And at Facebook I told this tosomebody and he said, oh my gosh
, my cousin works at a PR firmthat I think knows Megan Markle
and can get her a pair ofBerties.
And I was like, let's do it.
And so he ended up getting thefirst pair to Megan and a few
(21:37):
months later she started wearingus and that really got us out
of our our own social circle andby the beginning of January of
2017, we had investor interest.
We were way very profitable.
We were getting written up inlike every main magazine out
there and with a lot of investorinterest.
(21:59):
At the time, I knew that Icould not take outside capital
unless I was doing this fulltime.
I got an email in like Februaryof 2017 from Andy Dunn.
He's the co founder of bonobosand he just said like I've been
following this journey withbirdies, I think this is going
to be huge.
I would love to invest and Ihave a lot of friends who'd love
to invest if you're open to it.
(22:28):
Wow, and that really, yeah, thatreally made me stop and pause
and I was excited, but at thesame time, for me giving up my
career that I loved at Facebookand giving up my income and as a
as a woman, I always wanted tomake sure that I felt like I was
like independent financiallyand this would be the first time
where I would be really relianton my husband for our finances
and that was a scary place to be.
So I reached out to CherylSandberg, who was my mentor
(22:50):
during my time at Facebook, andI shared this challenge with her
and I thought for sure she'd belike listen, that's cute that
you have this whole like slipperbusiness, but, like you know,
you have a seat on the rocketship here at Facebook, like
don't mess around.
And I was kind of hoping shewould say that and instead she
was like Are you kidding me?
Like this is incredible, likeyou are on to something so big.
(23:11):
And she told me stories abouther own social slipper dilemma
and you know, and how proud shewas and how birdies was so great
.
And she's like listen, like notthat you ever need this, but if
you ever ever want to come backto Facebook, you always have a
seat back here.
So like go, you know, spreadyour wings.
And so that was when I knew,you know, that was like the
moment where I was like I haveinvestor interest, we have real
(23:32):
sales, we're profitable.
And my mentor was like this isit.
And I have to give my husbandcredit too, you know he was
really really, really supportivethroughout and was like you
know, I got you covered, babe.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Like we got this just to have that belief from him is
amazing every, it's literallyeverything yeah, we hear a lot
about hustle culture.
We hear a lot about thefounder's mindset.
Are these the same thing thatwe're talking about?
Do you, do you think of thoseas the same thing, and what do
(24:04):
they mean to you?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I think anybody can be, have a hustler mentality and
you don't have to be a founder.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And like I might, one of my first jobs is I worked at
macaroni grill during collegeand I waited tables there.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And I think you learn so much by working in a
restaurant.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And you're hustling.
But like I hustled.
And at the time it's an Italianrestaurant, so everybody had
like a red towel over theirshoulder, unless you were like a
VIP server and like the best,and they'd give you a green
towel.
And so I always use thisanalogy of like don't be the red
(24:41):
towel in life, be the greentowel.
Like you know to be the redtowel, you have to show up.
You have to show up on time,you have to do a good job.
You know you can't mess up, butlike that's your job.
And like that's a red towel.
But a green towel hustles,they're like.
They're like raising their hand.
I would go to every table with abottle of wine and I'm like for
sure you want a bottle of winetonight because I knew that 20%
of that of that bill was goingin my pocket as a tip and the
(25:01):
higher I could make their billand, by the way, make their
experience that much better.
Through, you know, the food andthe wine, everybody wins.
That's hustle.
And do you have to be a founderto have that mentality?
Absolutely not.
But I do think that as afounder, you have to have a
hustler mentality or you'regoing to be dead in the water.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
So how do you build that culture amongst your team?
And your team is growing quitebig now.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yeah, yeah, we now have offices in New York, which
is exciting.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You've got dozens and dozens of people working with
you.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, when I was at Facebook I was at the highest
individual contributor level,the highest IC level, and the
hard thing for me was like if Iwanted to keep growing there,
I'd have to then go and pivotinto management and I hated
everything about management,like I did not want to do that.
And so there's kind of aceiling with this hustler
(25:51):
mentality of like and then youhave to go into management and
it's like it depletes my energyand so I never did that.
And then when I started birdies, I never thought about like and
then I'll be managing peopleand a company and I found myself
doing that and I think I'velike worn many different.
You know manager hats to try tofigure out which type of
manager I'd be and like that'sterrible.
Like as a CEO, you want to kindof like roll out of the job,
(26:12):
like knowing how to lead, and Ididn't.
And so I think at times I try tocreate this like hustle
mentality or I assume, becauseI'd never managed people before,
that everybody was like me andthen I realized like they
weren't and that would frustrateme and then I would get like
very annoyed and irritated andlike they would not be happy and
(26:34):
satisfied.
And there was, and irritatedand like they would not be happy
and satisfied.
And there was, there were manyyears where I was like not
crushing it, I was not hiringthe right people for the culture
that I needed, right, like Ithink these are great smart
people, but like I needed ahustler mentality and I think a
lot of these people you knowsometimes would see like female
founded you know they're goingto be this.
(26:56):
It might I don't know maybelike it might just be more
balanced to work there becauseshe's a mom and you know we're a
mom and and you know, andmeanwhile I'm like no, no, no,
like that means we have to likereally double down here, and so
I don't, I don't think you cancreate a hustle culture with,
unless you're hiring people thatreally want to hustle.
You either have it or you likeyou don't.
(27:17):
You either want to go work at abig company because you just
you want to do a good job andlike that's about it, or you
want to start at a start.
You work at a startup becauseyou're just like you're swinging
for the fences and like that isawesome, like you can't imagine
just doing your job and goinghome like that seems terrible,
and so you have to find thepeople that match the culture
that you want to create, and formany years I wasn't matching it
(27:38):
because I didn't realize thatthat was a culture.
I just thought it was normal,and so I think I've gotten a lot
better at that.
But you have to find the rightpeople.
I think it's really hard tocreate a culture that you want
and not find the people thatmatch up with that culture.
It's just, it's not going towork.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I definitely see young Bianca, who was picked on
just like dusting herself offand just like building like the
resilience that you built earlyon really paying off now I I was
bullied as a kid for being gayvery different, different kind
of situation, also Catholicschool.
(28:15):
It was awful at the time and ittotally informed who I am and
how I move through the world now.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
It's so interesting because I remember you at
Facebook like you were likeskipping through the hallways,
like you are like jolly JB, likejust such a positive guy.
But it's interesting to hearyou say this because I think you
can.
You can go two ways.
When you're bullied, you couldeither be angry at the world and
let it consume you, or you canjust be like you know what that
(28:47):
didn't kill me and like that's,it's their problem, like they
have hatred in their heart andlike how sad for them.
I don't, I'm happy the way I amand who I am, and so I'm going
to skip around.
But I think it is a choiceright To just overcome it or to
let it take you down and, jb,like you, you are such a joyful
(29:07):
person.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
I really am that gay.
I did skip around.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Well, I would say joyful JB.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Joyful JB.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Yeah, so we talked a bit aboutmentorship and some of the
(29:36):
incredible mentors that you'vehad, but I imagine now you are
spending more of your timementoring rather than being
mentored.
Tell me about some of theentrepreneurs that you're
working with now as a mentor.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Okay, can we talk about the word mentorship for a
second?
Because I get asked, I getasked this a lot and I got asked
a lot like how did you getCheryl to mentor you?
Right, as like an example,right, like that's like who you
know, she's, she is justincredible and I feel so
fortunate.
But like it never happens theway people think it happens.
(30:10):
Like you know, it's not likeI'm like this year I'm going to
mentor five people and like I'mgoing to pick those five people,
like the way and Cheryl sharedthis years ago.
And I think like over time I'velearned.
I've learned to realize likeshe's so right, like mentorship
is a two way street, you know,like like we, there's, like
there's a give on both sides,like it really is a relationship
(30:33):
where both are benefiting fromit.
And so it's like I think whenpeople think about mentorship,
they're like you're going totell me what to do, I'm going to
do it, and then I'm going to beas successful as you, and like
that's not, that's not the rightway to look at it.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It's friendship.
I feel like it's much more it'sfriendship.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
It's like having a relationship with you know with
an older, wiser person and, bythe way, that older, wiser
person wants to learn.
you know what are the challengesof our generation's time, like
they're interested there, and soit has to be a two way street.
You know, sponsorship in acompany I think is very
different.
You know you need, you need anally to be able to like support
what you're doing next.
But like mentorship, you know,with like me and Cheryl or
(31:12):
somebody you know at that, likelevel of experience and wisdom,
is very rare.
But what I tell people, likepeer to peer mentorship, is not
rare and that can be done withinyour network, within your
control, at any time.
And I just gave this speech acouple weeks ago here in San
Francisco, and I started off bysaying this quote that I love,
(31:33):
which is show me your fiveclosest friends and I will tell
you who you are.
The people you surroundyourself with are going to help
make you who you want to be orwho you are, and, like your
peers, are your mentors.
If you are hanging aroundpeople who are negative, you're
going to be a negative person.
If you're hanging around fivepeople who are positive, you're
(31:54):
going to be the sixth positiveperson.
If you hang around five peoplewho are positive, you're going
to be the sixth positive person.
If you hang around fivesuccessful people, guess what?
You're going to be the sixthand so like that's available to
us all the time, but people needto take ownership and
accountability of like who arethey hanging out with, because
that will reflect who they areand who they become later in
life.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I love that.
I'm curious, even like thinkingabout your like five, five
friends, or you know mentors inyour life.
I'm curious what the role ofmentors have been in helping you
build your business.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
In 2011, I had my second child and I had just
started Facebook, like a yearbefore.
I was commuting an hour and ahalf each way.
I had a three-year-old and anewborn, and and also just like
drinking from a fire hose, as wedid, you know, we were like
learning as we went along atFacebook.
So it was a lot, and I had alot of people around me just
(32:48):
saying, like you know, whyaren't you staying home with
your children?
You know, including, like my,my, my parents' generation and
their friends, like theycouldn't understand that my mom
was a stay-at-home mom.
They would say things like yourchildren need you.
I would never leave my kid witha stranger, you know.
When I said, well, no, we havea full-time nanny.
And so I was like this sucks,like, and then I started to
(33:10):
question my own self.
I'm like, should I be, you knowthis all wrong?
And so Cheryl had this sort oflike, this like underground
dinner party at dinner partiesat her house, and she would
invite a few of us women to goand the purpose was to just talk
about the challenges of ourtime, and these were like women
I had only ever read about,right?
(33:31):
So, like, imagine me.
I'm just like, oh my god, like,just don't even look at me, I
like I don't deserve it, but I'mgonna learn.
And oh my God, like, just don'teven look at me, I like I don't
deserve it, but I'm going tolearn.
And so, right after I had my sonin 2011, I saw Cheryl at the
holiday party it was like amonth before I went back to work
from maternity leave and I saidI want to start something like
that you have, but like with mypeers, like do you have a
formula of like how you make itso sticky?
And she was, like I'm comingout with a book in six months
(33:55):
called Lean In, with a call toaction to create these like lean
in circle, these smallcommunities.
If you have a group of women Ican share with you sort of like
what I think is like is like theright framework for it.
And so, sure enough, in Januaryof 2012, we launched it Ten
women at my home.
We met every third Thursday ofthe month for an entire year.
(34:15):
That was the commitment.
You could not miss more thanone meeting or you'd be kicked
out.
You could not be late, youcould not leave early.
This was not book club.
This was not mail bashing.
This was all about like womenwho want to lean in
professionally and have a family, and like let's support each
other.
That group has been meetingevery single month for the last
12 years.
Wow, we have not missed a month.
(34:38):
We take a break in the summer,but not one month, because the
rule is you can't.
So we've lost a couple womenwho, you know, unfortunately
couldn't keep up with thosedemands, but there are nine of
us that have still met.
And so when I talk about findingyour community and like the
idea of mentorship through,through peer to peer mentorship,
like I really mean it.
And now, 12 years later, youknow you, you look back and
(35:00):
you're like, wow, I rememberwhen I was making the decision
to leave Facebook or to stay,and I remember when you were
thinking about changing careers,and I remember when you were,
you know, having your firstchild and unsure, and we were
all there and we made it okay tolean in professionally and lean
in personally.
That like nothing, none of thenone of the chatter around us
mattered, like I didn't evenlisten to anybody who would, who
(35:21):
would question my decision tostay in the workforce and have
children, like they didn'tmatter because I had my circle
and so I tell people that allthe time meet with your people
and not just like a little biteverywhere, but go deep.
Go deep with that circle,because that's how you really
feel connected and like trulynothing else.
Nobody else in the worldmatters as much as what these
(35:42):
humans in front of you say.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I love it.
To me it also it's like ithelps de-risk your choices
because you have you have peoplearound you that are helping
like address your blind spots,that are encouraging you.
If something doesn't go right,they lift you back up, like
that's exactly right.
It's so invaluable to have thatum, and I think I I mean I
definitely followed the, thelean in movement, because I just
(36:05):
thought women don't have, likewe haven't made time to have
that kind of mentorship or orsponsorship.
So starting to starting to makethose shifts in, like the value
of our time and our timetogether and how important that
is molly, you totally hit thenail on the head there.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Like I remember, like pre lean in my circle, like I
was, you know, commuting an hourand a half and I had to race
home, go to the grocery store,relieve the nanny, you know, get
the kids down, whatever.
And my husband would go have abeer after work with, like a
colleague and I'm like I'm goingto kill you, like why do you
get to go have a beer?
I'm at the grocery store andI'm relieving the nanny and he's
(36:42):
like I never asked you to dothat.
Like have the nanny stay anextra hour, go have a glass of
wine with a colleague and I waslike what, that's preposterous,
how could I possibly?
And then I would hear him talkto these same friends when
they're like negotiating offersat another company and like hey,
man, like you know how much arethey paying over there.
What do you think about this?
Or how should I handle that?
I was like I don't really havethose people.
(37:03):
Like who would I ask If I wereto ask for a promotion or for
more money?
Like how would I even?
Who would I even go to?
So I was like you know whatYou're right and that you know
we can have cereal one night aweek for dinner if we need to
like, that's okay, but we haveto encourage women to carve out
time every day for thatconversation, because you're not
(37:25):
gonna get promoted just becauseyou're a good worker bee.
You get promoted because youunderstand the future challenges
and how to have thoseconversations and who to have
them with.
And that only happens whenyou're talking about them
outside of work and before youget to the house.
Yeah, we don't do that enough,no, and that, I think, limits us
and we do it ourselves.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, absolutely Well , even I can say in my own
experience I, you know, I didn'tgrow up specifically talking
about like finances and how,like how money works in the
world today, like that wasn't.
I think I'm a little old lady,but that those were, those were
just not expectations, I think,on me and I spent this last
weekend with a group ofgirlfriends and our PJs talking
(38:06):
about like money and estateplanning and where are we
investing?
We also talked aboutelectrolysis and those types of
things.
We were like what do you do,Like what's happening.
But, but I I didn't.
I don't feel like I had thatnetwork when I was younger, but
I just think that it's.
It's really important,particularly where women are in
(38:27):
the world of work and societytoday, so it feels really
important.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
And doable.
You know, like you don't haveto find this.
You know Sheryl Sandberg mentor, you don't need to have.
You know, grown up knowing howfinances work.
Like you can make that decisiontoday to find those people and
to start having thoseconversations.
I mean, in my group we're alltalking about, like, hormone
replacement therapy.
I talked to my mom about it andshe's like we never talked
about that, like I don't evenknow what that is, and I'm like,
well, you know, I have no ideahow to navigate this, and
(38:55):
neither does my doctor, by theway.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
So like we're all going to have to figure it out
together.
That is a whole podcast episode, because I had to talk to my
mom about it.
She was like wait, what isgoing on?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And she was like I'm going to really struggle in that
one.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I'm going to struggle in that podcast.
That'll be Bianca and I.
That'll be Bianca and.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
I That'll be.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Bianca and.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I yeah.
Anyways, bianca, where canpeople keep up with you?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Oh my God, I feel like an influencer.
I'm like well, I'm, you know atBianca Gates on Instagram and
check out our site, broodiescom.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Fabulous Thank you.
This has been an amazingconversation and we've learned
so much from you on this one.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
You're the best JB.
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I'm so honored to be on your show.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I'm so honored to have you here and that's the
show.
If you like this episode,please share it with your
friends and drop us a rating andreview it while you're at it.
Keep up with us on LinkedIn.
Our Instagram handle is atunseriousfun and our website is
(40:00):
unseriouscom, where you can findall of our previous episodes
and show notes.
At Unserious, we make work play.
I'm JB Skelton, here with MollyMcMahon.
Hello, hello, super cool, younailed it, nailed it.
(40:31):
Hello, from the top, from thetop.
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