October 24, 2024 • 34 mins
Since the pandemic began, it seems like everyone’s favorite topic is "the future of work." But in all the talk about return to office, remote work, and Zoom fatigue, are we missing the headline here? In 2023, the number of number of independent workers in the US quadrupled to 64 million - that’s 45% of the American workforce.
In this episode, J.B. talks with Noah Lang, founder of Stride Health, the leader of portable benefits for independent workers, to find out what's behind this trend and what it takes to build a company that meets the needs of this incredibly fast growing sector.
" Fundamentally, what's driving the independent economy is people want more flexibility... we've just kept trying to knock down problems that people who work for themselves have to solve." - Noah Lang
Connect with Noah on LinkedIn and X, and check out stridehealth.com for open enrollment beginning November 1.
Follow Unserious in your podcast app, at unserious.com, and on Instagram and Threads at @unserious.fun.
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Episode Transcript
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J.B. (00:05):
This is Unserious.
Since the pandemic began, itseems like everyone's favorite
topic is the future of work.
There's return to office, workfrom home, zoom, fatigue and on
(00:25):
and on.
But have we missed the headlinehere?
In 2020, there were 15.8million people working as
independent contractors in theUS.
In 2023, that number quadrupledto 64 million.
That's 45% of the Americanworkforce.
I think it's safe to say thefuture of work is independent.
(00:48):
I'm JB Skelton.
Molly McMahon is off this week.
Today's episode is personal forme.
I was laid off last year from acompany and job that I loved.
I was lucky.
I was able to continue myhealth and dental through COBRA,
the federal law that allowsAmerican workers to do just that
.
But that option is expensiveand it expires, and that's when
(01:09):
I heard about Stride Health.
Through Stride, I was able tofind options that work better
for a now independent workerlike me.
So today we've invited the CEOof Stride Health, noah Lang, to
talk about the future of work,and this isn't about Zoom or
remote collaboration.
We're digging into the rise ofindependent work and how
companies like Stride arethriving by meeting the needs of
(01:32):
this incredibly fast-growingsector of the economy.
Noah, welcome to Unserious.
Noah (01:39):
Thanks for having me.
I'll try not to be too serious.
J.B. (01:42):
Please, please, don't so help our audience understand the
full spectrum of independentwork.
This is much more than rideshare.
Drivers right.
Noah (01:52):
Absolutely.
We think a lot about the gigeconomy when people talk about
independent work and even thegig economy Most folks go to.
Who door dashed me my dinnerlast night and how did I get to
the airport in a in an Uber thismorning?
But that's actually like eightor 9% of the quote unquote gig
economy today.
It's a very small portion.
J.B. (02:14):
So which sectors and categories are we seeing the
most growth?
Noah (02:17):
You know, I think what's most fascinating is it's kind of
everywhere there's stillcontinued growth in that segment
, although you know you look atthe delivery segment, it's kind
of topping out right in terms ofthe size of the workforce.
There we have a large and, I'dsay, continuing quickly growing
creative class.
We partner with folks like youknow, warner Brothers Music and
(02:38):
the Recording Academy and helpmusicians.
That's not necessarily new andunusual, but increasingly so.
We're also seeing designers andother folks who are creatives
in their own right really hangup their own shingle and be able
to operate as a business of one.
Another sector that we're seeinggrowth which was funny to me to
discover a decade into buildingthis company in some ways is
(03:01):
the healthcare sector.
We help most independentcontractors get healthcare first
, but increasingly so.
Nurses are working asindependent contractors.
They're grabbing shifts fromhospital to hospital, they're
working in people's homes andguess what?
They have to go figure outtheir own benefits as a result.
And so you have some of thesekind of I don't know industries
(03:21):
or sectors that have been aroundfor quite some time that are
increasingly either shifting tomeet a more flexible demand on
things like health care or evenlike professional services, and
then you have other segmentsthat are I think I've always had
this thread of independence,like creative workers, and now
it's just become exponentiallyeasier to find more clients, to
(03:43):
build your own business and togrow as a business of one.
So it's everywhere.
The other interesting, I think,segment is just what's changed
in terms of I don't knowMegacorps, Fortune 1000s being
comfortable hiring independentcontractors.
That is new, that is unusual,that is different, and it's
become a key part of theirstrategy, not only to build more
(04:05):
flexible access to people rightwhen you need them, but also
because a lot of the mosttalented people, in this country
at least, are going independent, and so if you want to get the
best talent, we're hearing from,I mean, large Fortune 50s that
to hire some of the bestengineers and AI experts and
others, they just have to becomfortable hiring independent
(04:26):
contractors sometimes.
Yeah, so it's pretty diverse.
J.B. (04:29):
Besides nursing what other ?
What other sectors in which areyou seeing independent work
take hold where you, where youaren't expecting to see it?
Noah (04:37):
And that's the one that pops to mind.
Yeah, kind of immediately to me.
I mean, I think you're seeingit in other, you know,
professionalized segments likeengineering, where it may be
more obvious, but it's justbecome much, much easier to work
on your own.
J.B. (04:52):
What do you think is driving the growth?
Is it the pandemic?
Is it flexibility?
Is it people sort of wanting tobe semi-retired?
Noah (05:02):
Well, I think it depends on which slice you're talking
about.
I think that, like the pandemic, smacked us around a little bit
right and said everything youthought about work is probably
wrong or needs to be adjusted,and it might be okay, and so I
think the pandemic absolutelyaccelerated the shift towards
independent work.
You might be now comfortablehiring someone on the other side
of the world when you weren'tbefore, and so I think the
(05:22):
pandemic was a huge ignition ona little fire that was already
burning there.
It definitely accelerated theapp-based gig economy too.
More and more people justshifted and stayed in their
homes and got delivery, but Ithink it kind of untethered the
workplace in some ways thatcreate a lot more flexibility.
Fundamentally, what's drivingthe gig economy and the
independent economy is peoplewant more flexibility.
(05:44):
Gig economy and the independenteconomy is people want more
flexibility, either for theirlifestyles right, I want to take
care of my kids or my elders,or have a particular thing I
want to do Maybe that's justactually starting a business,
you know, or have a hobby and Ijust I want to work in a
different way or it's financialflexibility I need to earn more,
and so I want to and I need togo find an independent gig or a
(06:07):
couple of them.
70% of the people we serve atStride do two or more things for
work, for income.
The other end of the spectrum,though, is kind of interesting
is you're also seeing, like, notjust people who are starting
their careers which is a lot ofwhat we think about early in
their careers we're seeingpeople who are winding down
their careers layer in basicallyindependent work as an off-ramp
(06:28):
.
It's not cold turkey you don'thave to work or retire anymore.
You can work a little, and soyou know you're seeing that now
become a piece of the retirementplan, a piece of your financial
security plan.
You know we provide benefitsfor our financial security, but
independent work itself is alsoa slice of that, and so I think
it's increasingly interesting tosee what the career off-ramp,
(06:51):
independent work looks like forfolks later in their career.
J.B. (06:54):
Yeah, from my point of view, being an independent
worker is really running my ownmicro-business.
I'm my own bookkeeper, I'm mysometimes my own attorney.
What do these workers tell youthey need to run their
businesses and what are themajors gaps?
Noah (07:12):
It's interesting because you can look at this kind of
plot of everything that you nowneed to go rebuild because
you're independent.
That's right.
You need a bookkeeper, anaccountant, a lawyer and and I
think there are, you know, thinkthere's some other kind of
companies solving those problems.
You also need customers, right.
You have to figure out how tomarket yourself and your skill.
The area that we've spent themost time is an area I think
that's a massive gap forindependent workers, but also
(07:34):
for and we can talk about Ithink this is a problem for our
entire labor force is all of thebenefits which is kind of the
wrong word to use here but allthe financial security that
comes in a traditional paycheck.
When you work for yourself, itis unbundled and scattered.
You have to go figure out howto repackage your own paycheck
because you're just earningtop-line revenue.
(07:56):
How do you figure out how to setaside money for taxes and what
might you owe?
A significant portion offirst-timers get a real rude
surprise April 15th every year.
They didn't realize they needto set aside money for their
taxes Accessing health care whenit's always been done for you.
That's where we got our start.
Really massive challenge, right, and, unfortunately, a lot of
people end up going uninsured.
(08:17):
They go with hope and a prayerwhen they don't realize that you
can go solve that problemactually, and sometimes it costs
you less than it did with yourjob.
But oftentimes people don'trealize just how much their
employer was paying to covertheir health insurance.
And then dealing with savingsis the other kind of key area.
Right, how do I actually setmyself up to take care of myself
(08:38):
for later, whether it's savingfor an emergency, saving for
retirement, these are challengesthat kind of get solved in your
paycheck when you had a job andyou have to go figure them out
for retirement.
These are challenges that kindof they get solved in your
paycheck when you had a job andyou have to go figure them out
for yourself.
J.B. (08:48):
What was the impetus for founding Stride?
This isn't a brand new startup.
This is.
You founded Stride 10 years ago, right Yep?
Noah (08:57):
You know, the impetus that took me to Stride was actually
not a fascination with thefuture of work.
It was a fascination with howpeople access healthcare, and it
started with a pretty obviousobservation that you've probably
had as well.
It's not very unique and everyAmerican has dealt with it,
which is it's pretty hard topick your health plan Right and
(09:19):
it sucks.
J.B. (09:20):
I mean like just just.
I mean like I I really put itoff until the last minute and I
was like a lot of people I was Ineeded and um and to sort
through all of these differentplans out there.
(09:51):
It's confusing, it'sdeliberately confusing.
Noah (09:54):
You know, the wall street journal published a study that
said the average American iswilling to spend nine minutes
making their health plan.
It's not a lot of time and somost mostly people make an
educated guess.
Right, they go by brand or whatthey think is the perceived
lowest price.
But that felt like a problemthat could be solved elegantly
with data and a good userexperience, and so I came at it
(10:15):
from the angle of I actually hadleft my previous startup, I was
looking at starting a newcompany, I was trying to figure
it out myself and I built a bigExcel spreadsheet to figure out
what I might spend on healthcare, what my options were, and had
to figure out how to make areally tough decision, which I
could barely do, and I hadaccess to probably more data
(10:35):
than most people.
But it felt within the boundsof things that you could go
solve with technology and reallyelegant user experience, and so
we started there.
And we started there in thewake of the Affordable Care Act.
Which people?
The Affordable Care Act is amassive piece of legislation.
One part is the Affordable CareAct marketplaces, healthcaregov
(10:56):
and easy access to tax creditsto help you lower the cost of
coverage.
That was an awesome leapforward in what I call portable
benefits in this country, whereanyone can get coverage.
They're no longer underwritten,so your health status doesn't
matter, your gender doesn'tmatter and you can get help
paying for it.
But it's massively confusing.
So you had this incredible newpoint of access for a massive
(11:18):
segment of the US labor forcethat was increasingly working
for themselves.
Nobody's helping them makethose decisions.
So we started there and it was apersonal problem.
And then, when I looked onerung outside myself, I realized
I come from a family ofindependents.
My dad's a solo practitionerattorney, my mom's a realtor, my
sister is a freelance designerand I realized that, you know,
(11:38):
they had to make all of theseother decisions and spend a
bunch of time usually no offenseto my family not necessarily
making the most informeddecision and they were doing all
that instead of focusing on thearea where they have skill
right Design, real estate lawand so it just felt unfair.
And so you know that was wherewe started and we launched this
(11:59):
first product out into the worldas the Affordable Care Act was
rolling out, just to help peoplepick the right health plan, and
it really took hold with peoplewho work for themselves and you
kind of mentioned independentwork.
I've used the term gig work.
You said a business of one.
I think there's no name thatworks for everyone.
But we found that most folkswho are independent workers can
(12:20):
identify with this idea ofworking for yourself.
And it doesn't matter if you'rea DoorDash or an Uber driver or
a freelance designer or you'restarting a small business.
Everyone kind of identifieswith that.
And as we got to know ourcustomers, they kept unraveling
all of the other problems theywere dealing with.
That's great.
You helped me with healthcare.
Can you help with my taxes?
Can you help me figure outretirement?
Can you help with all thesethings?
(12:40):
And that's kind of been thejourney that we've been on.
So the aperture of the businesstoday, of what we do, is we've
just kept trying to knock downproblems that people who work
for themselves have to solve ifthey want to maintain that
financial flexibility and thatpersonal flexibility with the
way they've chosen to work,regardless of why they choose to
work that way.
J.B. (13:06):
On this show we like to play a little game with our
guests called Hire Fire Boss.
We're going to have ahypothetical task and some
fictional candidates that willaccomplish that task for you.
You must hire one fire one, andone of them is going to be your
boss.
The task at hand is creating ago-to-market plan for open
(13:26):
enrollment for musicians andartists, and the team is you two
sans Bono.
So you've got Adam Clayton,you've got the Edge, you've got
Larry Mullen.
You've got to hire one fire one, and one of them's got to be
your boss.
Noah (13:43):
Oh, wow, I don't know.
Larry's fully healthy.
His arms are all healed, he'sgot his his beat.
Uh, because larry larry's on onthe sidelines.
Who would, uh, I guess, hireone, fire one, and one has got
to be my boss, uh, I, I don'tknow.
I think that the edge wouldhave to be my boss.
(14:07):
I think he can let it rip andsend us in the right direction.
I think that we might have tofire Larry just because I'm not
sure if he can bang those drums,and I'll hire Adam to set the
beat for us.
You know, it's a lot ofconflict for me in removing Bono
(14:29):
from the equation here.
J.B. (14:31):
It just kind of Bono is such a natural boss.
It's true, yeah, I think it'sless of a fun game with Bono in
it.
Noah (14:44):
So someone whispered to you just how many times I've
seen you two.
J.B. (14:47):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Noah (14:50):
Do you know the number?
J.B. (14:51):
No, I don't.
How many times have you seenyou two?
Noah (14:53):
24 times.
J.B. (14:55):
Jesus.
Noah (14:57):
What's the?
J.B. (14:58):
best show.
Noah (15:00):
I mean I got to say I think the sphere.
I went twice and it was prettystunning.
And I went once on my birthdaywith 20 of my best friends.
That's great, that was prettytops.
It's tough to beat that,seconded only by going with my
seven-year-old and watching hereyes see you two for the first
(15:20):
time and see that sphere.
So I don't know, the lastcouple of shows were probably
the peak for me.
J.B. (15:33):
What's been the most important lesson of the last 10
years?
Noah (15:38):
Sleep well and be patient.
I mean, we started this companyin the wake of the Affordable
Care Act and if you ignore allof the other tumult in our
political landscape, that was apretty tumultuous upstart.
Right, it didn't look like afew years in the ACA.
Marketplaces were going to last, they were going to work.
Massive insurers like Unitedwere leaving and saying no
(15:59):
thanks, we're not going to dothis, we don't know how to build
a business here.
And we were patient and wechipped away at the problem and
they've all come back.
And now you know, the healthinsurance ecosystem for
individuals in the United Statesis large, growing, profitable
and very healthy, and I thinkwe're dealing with really hard
problems and timing matters alot, but the ability to be
(16:21):
patient and come at it a fewdifferent ways, I think that's
what's a lot.
That's put us in the positionwhere we are today to be able to
tackle a pretty broad swath ofthese benefits challenges.
J.B. (16:28):
You recently announced a new type of portable benefits
for independent workers in Utah.
This is brand new.
Why, why was this so important?
Noah (16:38):
So we announced something we called StrideSave.
It's a benefits account.
It's a place you can set asideyour own money and withhold your
own taxes.
Make sure you can pay yourhealth insurance premium, build
your own PTO.
For me, this has always been apart of the vision, and I'm so
excited that it's real and live.
That's super cool, and I thinkit's a key missing piece of what
(17:00):
I kind of just described, ofputting together that all of the
security you used to get from apaycheck while retaining your
financial flexibility, and to meit's critical.
If you work independently, youwant to automate these problems
or the solutions to theseproblems, and so now we have a
way to pick your health plan andautomate making sure that you
(17:21):
pay your premium.
You have a way to automatesetting aside money for
retirement and planning foremergencies and making sure you
can take a vacation next summer,and so to me, it was an
inevitable piece of the puzzleof healthcare, taxes and savings
all in one place, and that'swhat we've just launched.
And you're right, the kicker iswe launched it in Utah.
(17:41):
We also launched it inPennsylvania Congratulations,
thank you and we had a couple ofvery innovative companies come
to the table with us and putmoney into benefits accounts for
their independent contractors.
So Target's last mile deliverycompany, shift, did that in Utah
, doordash did it inPennsylvania and call me an
optimist, but we had two stategovernors one of a red state,
(18:06):
one of a blue state come to thetable and say this is the way
we're going to deliver benefitsin the future.
So it's super exciting.
It's brand spanking new.
You should try it.
J.B. (18:15):
I would like to.
I'm in California.
Noah (18:17):
You can use it in California, Absolutely.
Those two states I justmentioned are the first two
states where companies aregiving workers money, but you
can contribute your own dollarsinto those accounts.
There's a waitlist onstridehealthcom.
If you go there you can sign upfor it.
J.B. (18:30):
So open enrollment kicks off on November 1st.
What should people know aboutsigning up for benefits through
stride?
Noah (18:36):
First, you should know there is an open enrollment so
you've got November 1st throughDecember 15th to get covered If
you want coverage startingJanuary 1st next year.
If you miss the boat, you getanother month to get coverage
for February 1st, but thenyou're out of luck.
So don't wait, don't kick thatcan down the road.
If you only have nine minutesmaybe, start early.
And so that's number one.
(18:57):
Number two is you know we'vepartnered with every health plan
and every zip code in thecountry, plus the government.
So you actually little knownfact don't have to go to the
government website or thegovernment call center to go get
low cost coverage.
We can actually go get your taxcredits for you and in real
time we can go and tell you JV,you qualify for $307 a month in
(19:21):
ACA tax credits.
You can go spend those onhealth insurance right here,
right now, within the walls ofStride, and we'll deal with all
the government red tape for you.
Plus, we have every health planthat the government might have.
It doesn't cost you any more tocome get it from Stride.
We don't charge people a dimeto use us.
We're just a really elegant,easy way to go get that job done
and then tackle the rest ofyour benefits challenges right
(19:42):
along with it.
J.B. (19:43):
Open enrollment is for open to everyone, obviously, but
there are other qualifyingevents.
That's not the only time thatyou can pick up benefits through
Stride right.
Noah (19:52):
Qualifying events, family events.
If you get married, if you havea new child, you can actually
use those as moments in time inthe middle of the year to go
sign up for benefits If you andif your COBRA expires.
Well, if you lose coverage fromlosing a job, you've got 60 days
to go get alternate coverageand one of the little known
(20:13):
facts is that oftentimes COBRAcoverage will cost you more than
your employer was paying.
Up to 102% of the premiums youremployer was paying you could
be charged for cobra.
So it's unless you've racked upa really high, you know
deductible that you've alreadypaid off over the course of a
year.
It's oftentimes a good idea tojust let that go and go get your
(20:34):
own individual coverage within60 days of losing or leaving
your job.
It can be by your own volition.
Uh, the other ones areincarcerated.
You get out of incarcerationand there's a couple of less
frequently used qualifyingevents.
But yeah, if you're workingindependently and you leave your
job, you don't have to pay forCOBRA.
You can pivot and go get yourown coverage in the middle of
(20:55):
the year.
J.B. (20:57):
For people who are only spending nine minutes on all of
this.
Why is it that open enrollmentonly happens once a year in the
US?
Noah (21:04):
Okay, so it's kind of a wonky answer, jb.
Part of the Affordable Care Actwas that anyone and everyone
can get covered, regardless ofhow sick, healthy, male, female,
pregnant, it doesn't matter.
And so in order to actuallymanage the quote unquote risk
for large insurance companieswho actually these are private
insurance companies who offercoverage under the Affordable
(21:24):
Care Act they had to constrainthe moments in time in which you
can pick your coverage, becausethey don't want you just
getting sick or breaking yourleg and then getting covered in
the middle of the year.
You need to be covered for theentirety of the year.
So they created this windowwhere you can get covered, so
that insurers can actually quoteunquote, underwrite the risk of
managing a large pool ofenrollees.
(21:45):
The alternative plan would beyou know, you wait till you get
sick, then you get insurance,they pay for it and then you go
ahead and leave, and that kindof breaks the model what values
(22:13):
are the hallmarks of stridesculture and how do you bring
those values to life?
yeah, so we have a written downset of values, but I'm going to
answer your question with onethat I think actually sits on
top of all of them, which is oneof our core values has been to
do the right thing always, andI'd like to think that's not so
(22:35):
special, but I think that it is.
You know, we always start withthe first principle around
what's the impact on the peoplethat we serve?
So we partner with thegovernment, with health insurers
and they, by the way, are ourprimary revenue stream.
We partner with large employersand nontraditional workforces,
but at the end of the day, welet the consumer impact guide
everything that we do, andthat's meant hard tradeoffs.
(22:57):
So what do we do to instillthese?
We will trade off revenue inmany cases if it puts the
consumer in a better position,in many cases, if it puts the
consumer in a better position.
So one example that lives inhow we deliver our product is we
make money because insurers payus when we enroll you in
coverage and don't tell theinsurers this piece, but if one
of them offers to pay us moremoney than the other, we ignore
(23:17):
it when we make a recommendationbecause we want to pick the
right health plan for JB, notthe health plan that's going to
pay us more money for stride,and so that is kind of one of
our core values in terms of howwe serve our consumers.
Now, across our team, we applythat same value, but we go a
little deeper and we focus onsome critical values around.
You know, I'd say one of myfavorite pairings is that we're
(23:40):
built on relationships and wedeliver fearless teamwork.
And you know we're a companythat's very anti-silos.
I don't like teams in silos.
We need teams workingcross-functionally and together,
and the reason we say fearlessis we don't want teams to be
afraid of each other or imposingon one of those roadmaps.
Say it how it is, get it out inthe open, talk about the
(24:03):
problem that we're solving as acompany and as a fearless team
together and allows us to go outand bite off really, really you
know, frankly hard problems.
So we have a I could runthrough all of our values here,
but we have a handful of valuesthat I'd say we pressure test in
the room we're making decisions.
We also pressure test them whenwe're hiring, promoting,
progressing people's careers atStride.
(24:24):
We measure our values alongside, you know, direct performance
and contribution to the business.
J.B. (24:32):
Give me an example of that anti-silo value and sort of
breaking down those silos inlife and sort of how that works,
because I know that's somethingthat a lot of teams try to do,
but I think it is really hard todo.
Noah (24:52):
So I would say we're not perfect, first of all, and it's
a state of constant iteration,it ebbs and it flows but I think
that we've done an increasinglygood job as a company of
setting goals as a company andbuilding plans as a company that
are focused on whatever thatproject or that initiative is
that we're trying to deliver,and then focusing on how every
(25:16):
single team is connected to itbefore we even start.
We've not always been good atthis.
I would say we're pretty damngood at it right now.
You know, teams work oncross-functional projects and
initiatives together.
They don't go in and focus ontheir own functional silo as an
independent piece of a biggerproject or initiative.
I don't know if that's specificenough for you, but I think
(25:36):
increasingly, focusing on thecross-functional projects and
initiatives that you're doing,it's really helped us to drive
people to understand that it'sless about your function and
it's more about what's theimpact it's going to have on
this group, on this team ofplayers, and I think it's kind
of it's both understated interms of how our culture
(25:57):
operates and how we worktogether and it's explicitly
stated in how we write down ourplans for the year.
J.B. (26:03):
Is that?
Sharing objectives Sure Amongteams, stated in how we write
down our plans for the year.
Is that?
Noah (26:07):
sharing objectives?
Sure, yeah, among teams, yeah,I think you know, if you look at
all of our kind of objectivesand how we've organized what
we're doing over the course of ayear or a multi-year plan,
there's only a small percentagethat are like specifically
siloed things.
Right, you know, of course, ourengineering team has
specifically things they need todo on infrastructure that are
not really cross-functional.
It does impact othercross-functional teams, though,
(26:29):
and so, you know, even in thatexample, there's an onus and
there's an expectation thatyou're going to go talk to other
teams about how it's going toimpact them, even if they don't
really need to do anything withit.
So I just think it's aboutbeing explicit, it's about
having conversations.
I would say I wasn't great atthat early on in my career as a
CEO, because it feels like a lotof time, you know, to just talk
about it.
But the more time we've createdthe expectation we've created
(26:50):
to talk about what you'reworking on, how it's going to
impact other people, well, guesswhat?
Like, the more connectedeveryone is, the less sweat and
tears there are and the easierexecution becomes, and then I
think it's Things are maybegravitating towards teams
working in their own functionsrather than together.
That's where it's up to me andmy leaders, my exec team, to
(27:11):
huddle and pull it back together.
J.B. (27:13):
I was joking at the top of this about the future of work
debate being this circularconversation about remote versus
in-person or in-office working.
But you're all 100% remote.
What made you lean into remotefirst?
Noah (27:27):
Good question.
My joke on the future of workis like stop saying future
Because it's like it's now, it'sjust.
J.B. (27:33):
This is how it is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is, it is,it is.
Noah (27:36):
I mean we had, right before the pandemic hit, you
know, we had started going withthe idea of some more versions
of work and we actually had madeour first hire.
And we were in San Franciscoand we made our first hire in
Salt Lake City and we're aboutto start another location.
And so I think we'd alreadyplanted the seeds of like what
is it gonna take culturally forus to go have people in more
(27:58):
than one place?
And when the pandemic hit I hadspent a bunch of time geeking
out on remote work.
We just kind of leaned in headfirst.
It seems not so special now tosay the pandemic drove us into
remote work, but within twoweeks we wrote a whole playbook
for what remote work looks likeat Stride and we very quickly
went to no expectation thatyou're going to have to come
back to the office.
(28:18):
It was kind of like oh, this isinteresting, let's lean into
this opportunity.
And then we stuck with it.
I do kind our, our nice officein South Park in San Francisco.
But we started hiring the besttalent, no matter where they
were, and we actually we madesome really hard decisions early
on.
We flattened our, ourcompensation model.
(28:39):
So a lot of companies kind ofwent remote.
But then they were payingpeople different amounts based
on their zip code and we saidI'll forget that.
Let's pay people based on theirperformance and based on their
skill and their level and itworked for us.
We've had to iterate and figureout how does culture evolve?
What is culture If we're justboxes in a screen?
(29:01):
That's been tough, but we'veiterated and we've tested new
things and yeah, I can't believeit's been four years since we
did that, but it's worked wellfor Stride.
It doesn't work well everywhere.
J.B. (29:13):
How do you build culture and trust among a remote team?
Noah (29:18):
I don't think we have a perfect recipe, but it's a lot
of small things that we neverstop iterating on, so we were
kind of very explicit abouttesting new things, I'd say the
cornerstone.
What's working One of thecornerstones is we do bring our
entire company together at leastonce a year, and that retreat
is not about doing work,Although it's very tempting to
(29:39):
want to do work.
It's about building culture andconnectivity and relationships
with people that you might notsee for a while.
So I think that's one.
We then breathe that life intoour team meetings and our all
hands, and my team knows that.
I think that all hands are veryimportant, even if we're just
doing a bit of team and culturework.
And so we've got some veryspecial you know, stride rituals
(30:01):
in our all hands.
We highlight where people arefrom, we share pictures of the
vacations we've taken, we doshout outs and kudos across the
team so that there's anawareness of what everyone's
working on in different parts ofthe org, even if you don't work
with them, and it sounds likemaybe cherries on top and
sprinkles, but it actually hasreally created a strong culture,
(30:24):
I think, of appreciation foreveryone as people and as
teammates.
And so we test new things everyyear and I think our values and
how we live them in thoserituals has become a key part of
keeping that culture alive andthriving.
And when we hire new people, wedon't just test for culture
fits.
We test for culture ads andlike what are these people going
(30:46):
to bring to our team?
And then hopefully knock onwood.
We're doing a good job ofnurturing that and expanding the
culture too.
J.B. (30:53):
You're an ultra marathoner , right Sometimes.
Sometimes, when was your lastone?
When's your next one?
Noah (31:01):
I don't have one on the books.
Ok, my last one was a year ago.
That I would count, um, but uh,it was uh, yeah, a hundred mile
run uh through the Wasatch inUtah.
J.B. (31:15):
What are the lessons that you take from ultra marathoning
into your role as CEO of stride?
Noah (31:21):
Well, I mentioned patience and getting good sleep and so
those two are definitelyfoundational, I think, to
running a good race, to havingthe endurance.
I do think running a company orworking for yourself it's an
endurance sport.
And I joke, but it's kind ofserious to my team that I like
type two fun.
You know what type two fun is?
J.B. (31:41):
Yeah, but explain for our listeners what type two fun is.
Noah (31:46):
Type one fun is just like it's fun while you're doing it,
right.
Type two fun is it really kindof sucks and is awful.
Sometimes when you're doing itit's very hard and painful but
you get great joy on the otherside of it and like sometimes
that's what this is right.
Solving a hard problem is goingto make you uncomfortable and I
think that the endurance sportsfor me.
They give me comfort in beinguncomfortable and knowing that's
(32:09):
an okay place to be.
There's something on the otherside of that discomfort.
You got to moderate yourcaloric intake and you got to
moderate your burn and notoutpace yourself.
But I've also learned to have ahigh tolerance for
uncomfortable or hard things andthat's not like pat myself on
the back.
I do think endurance is key andone of the things with you know
(32:31):
really long distance running isthat some point you're going to
dip into a low spot and what'sreally cool is that about the
human body and maybe the startupjourney is like at some point
you're going to be back on thehigh road too, and so just just
not, you know, not focusing onevery low point too much.
Also not focusing on every highpoint too much, cause you might
(32:53):
swing the other way.
I don't know it's, it's uh,it's just kind of been how I
live my life, but I do.
I do like type two fun.
So well.
J.B. (33:02):
I think that that's a great place for us to leave this
.
Noah, thank you so much forbeing on.
Where can people learn moreabout you and learn more about
Stride?
Noah (33:11):
At Stride.
You can go to stridehealthcom.
I don't have a massive internetfootprint but you can find me
on LinkedIn.
I have an occasionally updatedTwitter or X account at Noah
Lange, but check outstridehealthcom and you can see
what we're up to trying to helppeople who work independently
Over a third of the US workforce.
(33:32):
Now is the future of work, isthe now of work, and we're here
to help you.
J.B. (33:37):
Thanks so much for being on the show.
My pleasure and that's the show.
If you like this episode,please share it with your
friends and drop us a rating andreview it while you're at it.
Keep up with us on LinkedIn.
Our Instagram handle is atunseriousfun and our website is
(33:58):
unseriouscom, where you can findall of our previous episodes
and show notes.
At Unserious, we make work play.
This is Unserious.
Since the pandemic began, itseems like everyone's favorite
topic is the future of work.
There's return to office, workfrom home, zoom, fatigue and on
(00:25):
and on.
But have we missed the headlinehere?
In 2020, there were 15.8million people working as
independent contractors in theUS.
In 2023, that number quadrupledto 64 million.
That's 45% of the Americanworkforce.
I think it's safe to say thefuture of work is independent.
(00:48):
I'm JB Skelton.
Molly McMahon is off this week.
Today's episode is personal forme.
I was laid off last year from acompany and job that I loved.
I was lucky.
I was able to continue myhealth and dental through COBRA,
the federal law that allowsAmerican workers to do just that
.
But that option is expensiveand it expires, and that's when
(01:09):
I heard about Stride Health.
Through Stride, I was able tofind options that work better
for a now independent workerlike me.
So today we've invited the CEOof Stride Health, noah Lang, to
talk about the future of work,and this isn't about Zoom or
remote collaboration.
We're digging into the rise ofindependent work and how
companies like Stride arethriving by meeting the needs of
(01:32):
this incredibly fast-growingsector of the economy.
Noah, welcome to Unserious.
Noah (01:39):
Thanks for having me.
I'll try not to be too serious.
J.B. (01:42):
Please, please, don't so help our audience understand the
full spectrum of independentwork.
This is much more than rideshare.
Drivers right.
Noah (01:52):
Absolutely.
We think a lot about the gigeconomy when people talk about
independent work and even thegig economy Most folks go to.
Who door dashed me my dinnerlast night and how did I get to
the airport in a in an Uber thismorning?
But that's actually like eightor 9% of the quote unquote gig
economy today.
It's a very small portion.
J.B. (02:14):
So which sectors and categories are we seeing the
most growth?
Noah (02:17):
You know, I think what's most fascinating is it's kind of
everywhere there's stillcontinued growth in that segment
, although you know you look atthe delivery segment, it's kind
of topping out right in terms ofthe size of the workforce.
There we have a large and, I'dsay, continuing quickly growing
creative class.
We partner with folks like youknow, warner Brothers Music and
(02:38):
the Recording Academy and helpmusicians.
That's not necessarily new andunusual, but increasingly so.
We're also seeing designers andother folks who are creatives
in their own right really hangup their own shingle and be able
to operate as a business of one.
Another sector that we're seeinggrowth which was funny to me to
discover a decade into buildingthis company in some ways is
(03:01):
the healthcare sector.
We help most independentcontractors get healthcare first
, but increasingly so.
Nurses are working asindependent contractors.
They're grabbing shifts fromhospital to hospital, they're
working in people's homes andguess what?
They have to go figure outtheir own benefits as a result.
And so you have some of thesekind of I don't know industries
(03:21):
or sectors that have been aroundfor quite some time that are
increasingly either shifting tomeet a more flexible demand on
things like health care or evenlike professional services, and
then you have other segmentsthat are I think I've always had
this thread of independence,like creative workers, and now
it's just become exponentiallyeasier to find more clients, to
(03:43):
build your own business and togrow as a business of one.
So it's everywhere.
The other interesting, I think,segment is just what's changed
in terms of I don't knowMegacorps, Fortune 1000s being
comfortable hiring independentcontractors.
That is new, that is unusual,that is different, and it's
become a key part of theirstrategy, not only to build more
(04:05):
flexible access to people rightwhen you need them, but also
because a lot of the mosttalented people, in this country
at least, are going independent, and so if you want to get the
best talent, we're hearing from,I mean, large Fortune 50s that
to hire some of the bestengineers and AI experts and
others, they just have to becomfortable hiring independent
(04:26):
contractors sometimes.
Yeah, so it's pretty diverse.
J.B. (04:29):
Besides nursing what other ?
What other sectors in which areyou seeing independent work
take hold where you, where youaren't expecting to see it?
Noah (04:37):
And that's the one that pops to mind.
Yeah, kind of immediately to me.
I mean, I think you're seeingit in other, you know,
professionalized segments likeengineering, where it may be
more obvious, but it's justbecome much, much easier to work
on your own.
J.B. (04:52):
What do you think is driving the growth?
Is it the pandemic?
Is it flexibility?
Is it people sort of wanting tobe semi-retired?
Noah (05:02):
Well, I think it depends on which slice you're talking
about.
I think that, like the pandemic, smacked us around a little bit
right and said everything youthought about work is probably
wrong or needs to be adjusted,and it might be okay, and so I
think the pandemic absolutelyaccelerated the shift towards
independent work.
You might be now comfortablehiring someone on the other side
of the world when you weren'tbefore, and so I think the
(05:22):
pandemic was a huge ignition ona little fire that was already
burning there.
It definitely accelerated theapp-based gig economy too.
More and more people justshifted and stayed in their
homes and got delivery, but Ithink it kind of untethered the
workplace in some ways thatcreate a lot more flexibility.
Fundamentally, what's drivingthe gig economy and the
independent economy is peoplewant more flexibility.
(05:44):
Gig economy and the independenteconomy is people want more
flexibility, either for theirlifestyles right, I want to take
care of my kids or my elders,or have a particular thing I
want to do Maybe that's justactually starting a business,
you know, or have a hobby and Ijust I want to work in a
different way or it's financialflexibility I need to earn more,
and so I want to and I need togo find an independent gig or a
(06:07):
couple of them.
70% of the people we serve atStride do two or more things for
work, for income.
The other end of the spectrum,though, is kind of interesting
is you're also seeing, like, notjust people who are starting
their careers which is a lot ofwhat we think about early in
their careers we're seeingpeople who are winding down
their careers layer in basicallyindependent work as an off-ramp
(06:28):
.
It's not cold turkey you don'thave to work or retire anymore.
You can work a little, and soyou know you're seeing that now
become a piece of the retirementplan, a piece of your financial
security plan.
You know we provide benefitsfor our financial security, but
independent work itself is alsoa slice of that, and so I think
it's increasingly interesting tosee what the career off-ramp,
(06:51):
independent work looks like forfolks later in their career.
J.B. (06:54):
Yeah, from my point of view, being an independent
worker is really running my ownmicro-business.
I'm my own bookkeeper, I'm mysometimes my own attorney.
What do these workers tell youthey need to run their
businesses and what are themajors gaps?
Noah (07:12):
It's interesting because you can look at this kind of
plot of everything that you nowneed to go rebuild because
you're independent.
That's right.
You need a bookkeeper, anaccountant, a lawyer and and I
think there are, you know, thinkthere's some other kind of
companies solving those problems.
You also need customers, right.
You have to figure out how tomarket yourself and your skill.
The area that we've spent themost time is an area I think
that's a massive gap forindependent workers, but also
(07:34):
for and we can talk about Ithink this is a problem for our
entire labor force is all of thebenefits which is kind of the
wrong word to use here but allthe financial security that
comes in a traditional paycheck.
When you work for yourself, itis unbundled and scattered.
You have to go figure out howto repackage your own paycheck
because you're just earningtop-line revenue.
(07:56):
How do you figure out how to setaside money for taxes and what
might you owe?
A significant portion offirst-timers get a real rude
surprise April 15th every year.
They didn't realize they needto set aside money for their
taxes Accessing health care whenit's always been done for you.
That's where we got our start.
Really massive challenge, right, and, unfortunately, a lot of
people end up going uninsured.
(08:17):
They go with hope and a prayerwhen they don't realize that you
can go solve that problemactually, and sometimes it costs
you less than it did with yourjob.
But oftentimes people don'trealize just how much their
employer was paying to covertheir health insurance.
And then dealing with savingsis the other kind of key area.
Right, how do I actually setmyself up to take care of myself
(08:38):
for later, whether it's savingfor an emergency, saving for
retirement, these are challengesthat kind of get solved in your
paycheck when you had a job andyou have to go figure them out
for retirement.
These are challenges that kindof they get solved in your
paycheck when you had a job andyou have to go figure them out
for yourself.
J.B. (08:48):
What was the impetus for founding Stride?
This isn't a brand new startup.
This is.
You founded Stride 10 years ago, right Yep?
Noah (08:57):
You know, the impetus that took me to Stride was actually
not a fascination with thefuture of work.
It was a fascination with howpeople access healthcare, and it
started with a pretty obviousobservation that you've probably
had as well.
It's not very unique and everyAmerican has dealt with it,
which is it's pretty hard topick your health plan Right and
(09:19):
it sucks.
J.B. (09:20):
I mean like just just.
I mean like I I really put itoff until the last minute and I
was like a lot of people I was Ineeded and um and to sort
through all of these differentplans out there.
(09:51):
It's confusing, it'sdeliberately confusing.
Noah (09:54):
You know, the wall street journal published a study that
said the average American iswilling to spend nine minutes
making their health plan.
It's not a lot of time and somost mostly people make an
educated guess.
Right, they go by brand or whatthey think is the perceived
lowest price.
But that felt like a problemthat could be solved elegantly
with data and a good userexperience, and so I came at it
(10:15):
from the angle of I actually hadleft my previous startup, I was
looking at starting a newcompany, I was trying to figure
it out myself and I built a bigExcel spreadsheet to figure out
what I might spend on healthcare, what my options were, and had
to figure out how to make areally tough decision, which I
could barely do, and I hadaccess to probably more data
(10:35):
than most people.
But it felt within the boundsof things that you could go
solve with technology and reallyelegant user experience, and so
we started there.
And we started there in thewake of the Affordable Care Act.
Which people?
The Affordable Care Act is amassive piece of legislation.
One part is the Affordable CareAct marketplaces, healthcaregov
(10:56):
and easy access to tax creditsto help you lower the cost of
coverage.
That was an awesome leapforward in what I call portable
benefits in this country, whereanyone can get coverage.
They're no longer underwritten,so your health status doesn't
matter, your gender doesn'tmatter and you can get help
paying for it.
But it's massively confusing.
So you had this incredible newpoint of access for a massive
(11:18):
segment of the US labor forcethat was increasingly working
for themselves.
Nobody's helping them makethose decisions.
So we started there and it was apersonal problem.
And then, when I looked onerung outside myself, I realized
I come from a family ofindependents.
My dad's a solo practitionerattorney, my mom's a realtor, my
sister is a freelance designerand I realized that, you know,
(11:38):
they had to make all of theseother decisions and spend a
bunch of time usually no offenseto my family not necessarily
making the most informeddecision and they were doing all
that instead of focusing on thearea where they have skill
right Design, real estate lawand so it just felt unfair.
And so you know that was wherewe started and we launched this
(11:59):
first product out into the worldas the Affordable Care Act was
rolling out, just to help peoplepick the right health plan, and
it really took hold with peoplewho work for themselves and you
kind of mentioned independentwork.
I've used the term gig work.
You said a business of one.
I think there's no name thatworks for everyone.
But we found that most folkswho are independent workers can
(12:20):
identify with this idea ofworking for yourself.
And it doesn't matter if you'rea DoorDash or an Uber driver or
a freelance designer or you'restarting a small business.
Everyone kind of identifieswith that.
And as we got to know ourcustomers, they kept unraveling
all of the other problems theywere dealing with.
That's great.
You helped me with healthcare.
Can you help with my taxes?
Can you help me figure outretirement?
Can you help with all thesethings?
(12:40):
And that's kind of been thejourney that we've been on.
So the aperture of the businesstoday, of what we do, is we've
just kept trying to knock downproblems that people who work
for themselves have to solve ifthey want to maintain that
financial flexibility and thatpersonal flexibility with the
way they've chosen to work,regardless of why they choose to
work that way.
J.B. (13:06):
On this show we like to play a little game with our
guests called Hire Fire Boss.
We're going to have ahypothetical task and some
fictional candidates that willaccomplish that task for you.
You must hire one fire one, andone of them is going to be your
boss.
The task at hand is creating ago-to-market plan for open
(13:26):
enrollment for musicians andartists, and the team is you two
sans Bono.
So you've got Adam Clayton,you've got the Edge, you've got
Larry Mullen.
You've got to hire one fire one, and one of them's got to be
your boss.
Noah (13:43):
Oh, wow, I don't know.
Larry's fully healthy.
His arms are all healed, he'sgot his his beat.
Uh, because larry larry's on onthe sidelines.
Who would, uh, I guess, hireone, fire one, and one has got
to be my boss, uh, I, I don'tknow.
I think that the edge wouldhave to be my boss.
(14:07):
I think he can let it rip andsend us in the right direction.
I think that we might have tofire Larry just because I'm not
sure if he can bang those drums,and I'll hire Adam to set the
beat for us.
You know, it's a lot ofconflict for me in removing Bono
(14:29):
from the equation here.
J.B. (14:31):
It just kind of Bono is such a natural boss.
It's true, yeah, I think it'sless of a fun game with Bono in
it.
Noah (14:44):
So someone whispered to you just how many times I've
seen you two.
J.B. (14:47):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Noah (14:50):
Do you know the number?
J.B. (14:51):
No, I don't.
How many times have you seenyou two?
Noah (14:53):
24 times.
J.B. (14:55):
Jesus.
Noah (14:57):
What's the?
J.B. (14:58):
best show.
Noah (15:00):
I mean I got to say I think the sphere.
I went twice and it was prettystunning.
And I went once on my birthdaywith 20 of my best friends.
That's great, that was prettytops.
It's tough to beat that,seconded only by going with my
seven-year-old and watching hereyes see you two for the first
(15:20):
time and see that sphere.
So I don't know, the lastcouple of shows were probably
the peak for me.
J.B. (15:33):
What's been the most important lesson of the last 10
years?
Noah (15:38):
Sleep well and be patient.
I mean, we started this companyin the wake of the Affordable
Care Act and if you ignore allof the other tumult in our
political landscape, that was apretty tumultuous upstart.
Right, it didn't look like afew years in the ACA.
Marketplaces were going to last, they were going to work.
Massive insurers like Unitedwere leaving and saying no
(15:59):
thanks, we're not going to dothis, we don't know how to build
a business here.
And we were patient and wechipped away at the problem and
they've all come back.
And now you know, the healthinsurance ecosystem for
individuals in the United Statesis large, growing, profitable
and very healthy, and I thinkwe're dealing with really hard
problems and timing matters alot, but the ability to be
(16:21):
patient and come at it a fewdifferent ways, I think that's
what's a lot.
That's put us in the positionwhere we are today to be able to
tackle a pretty broad swath ofthese benefits challenges.
J.B. (16:28):
You recently announced a new type of portable benefits
for independent workers in Utah.
This is brand new.
Why, why was this so important?
Noah (16:38):
So we announced something we called StrideSave.
It's a benefits account.
It's a place you can set asideyour own money and withhold your
own taxes.
Make sure you can pay yourhealth insurance premium, build
your own PTO.
For me, this has always been apart of the vision, and I'm so
excited that it's real and live.
That's super cool, and I thinkit's a key missing piece of what
(17:00):
I kind of just described, ofputting together that all of the
security you used to get from apaycheck while retaining your
financial flexibility, and to meit's critical.
If you work independently, youwant to automate these problems
or the solutions to theseproblems, and so now we have a
way to pick your health plan andautomate making sure that you
(17:21):
pay your premium.
You have a way to automatesetting aside money for
retirement and planning foremergencies and making sure you
can take a vacation next summer,and so to me, it was an
inevitable piece of the puzzleof healthcare, taxes and savings
all in one place, and that'swhat we've just launched.
And you're right, the kicker iswe launched it in Utah.
(17:41):
We also launched it inPennsylvania Congratulations,
thank you and we had a couple ofvery innovative companies come
to the table with us and putmoney into benefits accounts for
their independent contractors.
So Target's last mile deliverycompany, shift, did that in Utah
, doordash did it inPennsylvania and call me an
optimist, but we had two stategovernors one of a red state,
(18:06):
one of a blue state come to thetable and say this is the way
we're going to deliver benefitsin the future.
So it's super exciting.
It's brand spanking new.
You should try it.
J.B. (18:15):
I would like to.
I'm in California.
Noah (18:17):
You can use it in California, Absolutely.
Those two states I justmentioned are the first two
states where companies aregiving workers money, but you
can contribute your own dollarsinto those accounts.
There's a waitlist onstridehealthcom.
If you go there you can sign upfor it.
J.B. (18:30):
So open enrollment kicks off on November 1st.
What should people know aboutsigning up for benefits through
stride?
Noah (18:36):
First, you should know there is an open enrollment so
you've got November 1st throughDecember 15th to get covered If
you want coverage startingJanuary 1st next year.
If you miss the boat, you getanother month to get coverage
for February 1st, but thenyou're out of luck.
So don't wait, don't kick thatcan down the road.
If you only have nine minutesmaybe, start early.
And so that's number one.
(18:57):
Number two is you know we'vepartnered with every health plan
and every zip code in thecountry, plus the government.
So you actually little knownfact don't have to go to the
government website or thegovernment call center to go get
low cost coverage.
We can actually go get your taxcredits for you and in real
time we can go and tell you JV,you qualify for $307 a month in
(19:21):
ACA tax credits.
You can go spend those onhealth insurance right here,
right now, within the walls ofStride, and we'll deal with all
the government red tape for you.
Plus, we have every health planthat the government might have.
It doesn't cost you any more tocome get it from Stride.
We don't charge people a dimeto use us.
We're just a really elegant,easy way to go get that job done
and then tackle the rest ofyour benefits challenges right
(19:42):
along with it.
J.B. (19:43):
Open enrollment is for open to everyone, obviously, but
there are other qualifyingevents.
That's not the only time thatyou can pick up benefits through
Stride right.
Noah (19:52):
Qualifying events, family events.
If you get married, if you havea new child, you can actually
use those as moments in time inthe middle of the year to go
sign up for benefits If you andif your COBRA expires.
Well, if you lose coverage fromlosing a job, you've got 60 days
to go get alternate coverageand one of the little known
(20:13):
facts is that oftentimes COBRAcoverage will cost you more than
your employer was paying.
Up to 102% of the premiums youremployer was paying you could
be charged for cobra.
So it's unless you've racked upa really high, you know
deductible that you've alreadypaid off over the course of a
year.
It's oftentimes a good idea tojust let that go and go get your
(20:34):
own individual coverage within60 days of losing or leaving
your job.
It can be by your own volition.
Uh, the other ones areincarcerated.
You get out of incarcerationand there's a couple of less
frequently used qualifyingevents.
But yeah, if you're workingindependently and you leave your
job, you don't have to pay forCOBRA.
You can pivot and go get yourown coverage in the middle of
(20:55):
the year.
J.B. (20:57):
For people who are only spending nine minutes on all of
this.
Why is it that open enrollmentonly happens once a year in the
US?
Noah (21:04):
Okay, so it's kind of a wonky answer, jb.
Part of the Affordable Care Actwas that anyone and everyone
can get covered, regardless ofhow sick, healthy, male, female,
pregnant, it doesn't matter.
And so in order to actuallymanage the quote unquote risk
for large insurance companieswho actually these are private
insurance companies who offercoverage under the Affordable
(21:24):
Care Act they had to constrainthe moments in time in which you
can pick your coverage, becausethey don't want you just
getting sick or breaking yourleg and then getting covered in
the middle of the year.
You need to be covered for theentirety of the year.
So they created this windowwhere you can get covered, so
that insurers can actually quoteunquote, underwrite the risk of
managing a large pool ofenrollees.
(21:45):
The alternative plan would beyou know, you wait till you get
sick, then you get insurance,they pay for it and then you go
ahead and leave, and that kindof breaks the model what values
(22:13):
are the hallmarks of stridesculture and how do you bring
those values to life?
yeah, so we have a written downset of values, but I'm going to
answer your question with onethat I think actually sits on
top of all of them, which is oneof our core values has been to
do the right thing always, andI'd like to think that's not so
(22:35):
special, but I think that it is.
You know, we always start withthe first principle around
what's the impact on the peoplethat we serve?
So we partner with thegovernment, with health insurers
and they, by the way, are ourprimary revenue stream.
We partner with large employersand nontraditional workforces,
but at the end of the day, welet the consumer impact guide
everything that we do, andthat's meant hard tradeoffs.
(22:57):
So what do we do to instillthese?
We will trade off revenue inmany cases if it puts the
consumer in a better position,in many cases, if it puts the
consumer in a better position.
So one example that lives inhow we deliver our product is we
make money because insurers payus when we enroll you in
coverage and don't tell theinsurers this piece, but if one
of them offers to pay us moremoney than the other, we ignore
(23:17):
it when we make a recommendationbecause we want to pick the
right health plan for JB, notthe health plan that's going to
pay us more money for stride,and so that is kind of one of
our core values in terms of howwe serve our consumers.
Now, across our team, we applythat same value, but we go a
little deeper and we focus onsome critical values around.
You know, I'd say one of myfavorite pairings is that we're
(23:40):
built on relationships and wedeliver fearless teamwork.
And you know we're a companythat's very anti-silos.
I don't like teams in silos.
We need teams workingcross-functionally and together,
and the reason we say fearlessis we don't want teams to be
afraid of each other or imposingon one of those roadmaps.
Say it how it is, get it out inthe open, talk about the
(24:03):
problem that we're solving as acompany and as a fearless team
together and allows us to go outand bite off really, really you
know, frankly hard problems.
So we have a I could runthrough all of our values here,
but we have a handful of valuesthat I'd say we pressure test in
the room we're making decisions.
We also pressure test them whenwe're hiring, promoting,
progressing people's careers atStride.
(24:24):
We measure our values alongside, you know, direct performance
and contribution to the business.
J.B. (24:32):
Give me an example of that anti-silo value and sort of
breaking down those silos inlife and sort of how that works,
because I know that's somethingthat a lot of teams try to do,
but I think it is really hard todo.
Noah (24:52):
So I would say we're not perfect, first of all, and it's
a state of constant iteration,it ebbs and it flows but I think
that we've done an increasinglygood job as a company of
setting goals as a company andbuilding plans as a company that
are focused on whatever thatproject or that initiative is
that we're trying to deliver,and then focusing on how every
(25:16):
single team is connected to itbefore we even start.
We've not always been good atthis.
I would say we're pretty damngood at it right now.
You know, teams work oncross-functional projects and
initiatives together.
They don't go in and focus ontheir own functional silo as an
independent piece of a biggerproject or initiative.
I don't know if that's specificenough for you, but I think
(25:36):
increasingly, focusing on thecross-functional projects and
initiatives that you're doing,it's really helped us to drive
people to understand that it'sless about your function and
it's more about what's theimpact it's going to have on
this group, on this team ofplayers, and I think it's kind
of it's both understated interms of how our culture
(25:57):
operates and how we worktogether and it's explicitly
stated in how we write down ourplans for the year.
J.B. (26:03):
Is that?
Sharing objectives Sure Amongteams, stated in how we write
down our plans for the year.
Is that?
Noah (26:07):
sharing objectives?
Sure, yeah, among teams, yeah,I think you know, if you look at
all of our kind of objectivesand how we've organized what
we're doing over the course of ayear or a multi-year plan,
there's only a small percentagethat are like specifically
siloed things.
Right, you know, of course, ourengineering team has
specifically things they need todo on infrastructure that are
not really cross-functional.
It does impact othercross-functional teams, though,
(26:29):
and so, you know, even in thatexample, there's an onus and
there's an expectation thatyou're going to go talk to other
teams about how it's going toimpact them, even if they don't
really need to do anything withit.
So I just think it's aboutbeing explicit, it's about
having conversations.
I would say I wasn't great atthat early on in my career as a
CEO, because it feels like a lotof time, you know, to just talk
about it.
But the more time we've createdthe expectation we've created
(26:50):
to talk about what you'reworking on, how it's going to
impact other people, well, guesswhat?
Like, the more connectedeveryone is, the less sweat and
tears there are and the easierexecution becomes, and then I
think it's Things are maybegravitating towards teams
working in their own functionsrather than together.
That's where it's up to me andmy leaders, my exec team, to
(27:11):
huddle and pull it back together.
J.B. (27:13):
I was joking at the top of this about the future of work
debate being this circularconversation about remote versus
in-person or in-office working.
But you're all 100% remote.
What made you lean into remotefirst?
Noah (27:27):
Good question.
My joke on the future of workis like stop saying future
Because it's like it's now, it'sjust.
J.B. (27:33):
This is how it is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is, it is,it is.
Noah (27:36):
I mean we had, right before the pandemic hit, you
know, we had started going withthe idea of some more versions
of work and we actually had madeour first hire.
And we were in San Franciscoand we made our first hire in
Salt Lake City and we're aboutto start another location.
And so I think we'd alreadyplanted the seeds of like what
is it gonna take culturally forus to go have people in more
(27:58):
than one place?
And when the pandemic hit I hadspent a bunch of time geeking
out on remote work.
We just kind of leaned in headfirst.
It seems not so special now tosay the pandemic drove us into
remote work, but within twoweeks we wrote a whole playbook
for what remote work looks likeat Stride and we very quickly
went to no expectation thatyou're going to have to come
back to the office.
(28:18):
It was kind of like oh, this isinteresting, let's lean into
this opportunity.
And then we stuck with it.
I do kind our, our nice officein South Park in San Francisco.
But we started hiring the besttalent, no matter where they
were, and we actually we madesome really hard decisions early
on.
We flattened our, ourcompensation model.
(28:39):
So a lot of companies kind ofwent remote.
But then they were payingpeople different amounts based
on their zip code and we saidI'll forget that.
Let's pay people based on theirperformance and based on their
skill and their level and itworked for us.
We've had to iterate and figureout how does culture evolve?
What is culture If we're justboxes in a screen?
(29:01):
That's been tough, but we'veiterated and we've tested new
things and yeah, I can't believeit's been four years since we
did that, but it's worked wellfor Stride.
It doesn't work well everywhere.
J.B. (29:13):
How do you build culture and trust among a remote team?
Noah (29:18):
I don't think we have a perfect recipe, but it's a lot
of small things that we neverstop iterating on, so we were
kind of very explicit abouttesting new things, I'd say the
cornerstone.
What's working One of thecornerstones is we do bring our
entire company together at leastonce a year, and that retreat
is not about doing work,Although it's very tempting to
(29:39):
want to do work.
It's about building culture andconnectivity and relationships
with people that you might notsee for a while.
So I think that's one.
We then breathe that life intoour team meetings and our all
hands, and my team knows that.
I think that all hands are veryimportant, even if we're just
doing a bit of team and culturework.
And so we've got some veryspecial you know, stride rituals
(30:01):
in our all hands.
We highlight where people arefrom, we share pictures of the
vacations we've taken, we doshout outs and kudos across the
team so that there's anawareness of what everyone's
working on in different parts ofthe org, even if you don't work
with them, and it sounds likemaybe cherries on top and
sprinkles, but it actually hasreally created a strong culture,
(30:24):
I think, of appreciation foreveryone as people and as
teammates.
And so we test new things everyyear and I think our values and
how we live them in thoserituals has become a key part of
keeping that culture alive andthriving.
And when we hire new people, wedon't just test for culture
fits.
We test for culture ads andlike what are these people going
(30:46):
to bring to our team?
And then hopefully knock onwood.
We're doing a good job ofnurturing that and expanding the
culture too.
J.B. (30:53):
You're an ultra marathoner , right Sometimes.
Sometimes, when was your lastone?
When's your next one?
Noah (31:01):
I don't have one on the books.
Ok, my last one was a year ago.
That I would count, um, but uh,it was uh, yeah, a hundred mile
run uh through the Wasatch inUtah.
J.B. (31:15):
What are the lessons that you take from ultra marathoning
into your role as CEO of stride?
Noah (31:21):
Well, I mentioned patience and getting good sleep and so
those two are definitelyfoundational, I think, to
running a good race, to havingthe endurance.
I do think running a company orworking for yourself it's an
endurance sport.
And I joke, but it's kind ofserious to my team that I like
type two fun.
You know what type two fun is?
J.B. (31:41):
Yeah, but explain for our listeners what type two fun is.
Noah (31:46):
Type one fun is just like it's fun while you're doing it,
right.
Type two fun is it really kindof sucks and is awful.
Sometimes when you're doing itit's very hard and painful but
you get great joy on the otherside of it and like sometimes
that's what this is right.
Solving a hard problem is goingto make you uncomfortable and I
think that the endurance sportsfor me.
They give me comfort in beinguncomfortable and knowing that's
(32:09):
an okay place to be.
There's something on the otherside of that discomfort.
You got to moderate yourcaloric intake and you got to
moderate your burn and notoutpace yourself.
But I've also learned to have ahigh tolerance for
uncomfortable or hard things andthat's not like pat myself on
the back.
I do think endurance is key andone of the things with you know
(32:31):
really long distance running isthat some point you're going to
dip into a low spot and what'sreally cool is that about the
human body and maybe the startupjourney is like at some point
you're going to be back on thehigh road too, and so just just
not, you know, not focusing onevery low point too much.
Also not focusing on every highpoint too much, cause you might
(32:53):
swing the other way.
I don't know it's, it's uh,it's just kind of been how I
live my life, but I do.
I do like type two fun.
So well.
J.B. (33:02):
I think that that's a great place for us to leave this
.
Noah, thank you so much forbeing on.
Where can people learn moreabout you and learn more about
Stride?
Noah (33:11):
At Stride.
You can go to stridehealthcom.
I don't have a massive internetfootprint but you can find me
on LinkedIn.
I have an occasionally updatedTwitter or X account at Noah
Lange, but check outstridehealthcom and you can see
what we're up to trying to helppeople who work independently
Over a third of the US workforce.
(33:32):
Now is the future of work, isthe now of work, and we're here
to help you.
J.B. (33:37):
Thanks so much for being on the show.
My pleasure and that's the show.
If you like this episode,please share it with your
friends and drop us a rating andreview it while you're at it.
Keep up with us on LinkedIn.
Our Instagram handle is atunseriousfun and our website is
(33:58):
unseriouscom, where you can findall of our previous episodes
and show notes.
At Unserious, we make work play.
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