August 12, 2024 • 9 mins
Most of us have been taught from early childhood that dreams aren't meant to be taken seriously. "Don't worry, it's just a dream," your parent might have said. But as community builder, author, and product leader Sarah Epps shares with Micah in this Upshots episode, dreams can be a potent source of data to be explored for personal and professional growth. Don't miss this easy approach to receive life direction from your subconscious and literally follow your dreams.
"Listening to your dreams can be an act of deep compassion and self-trust... when you acknowledge yourself as having something worthy to tell yourself, that can change your life." - Sarah Epps
PDF cheat sheet @ https://bit.ly/eppshots
Hear more from Sarah and sign up for her Substack at recipeasfeeling.com.
Follow Unserious in your podcast app, at unserious.com, and on Instagram and Threads at @unserious.fun.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is Unserious that you can start using right
away.
Our guest today is Sarah Epps,a community builder, author and
product leader, incubating herdreams after a 17-year stint in
Silicon Valley tech.
Welcome, Sarah.
What are we digging into thisweek?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Micah, we are talking about your dreams and using
data from your dreams, data fromIs this like electrodes on my
brain and sci-fi equipment?
That would be super cool, butit's super low tech.
You just go to sleep, you wakeup and you write down something
and then you can use it in yourwaking life.
So, for example, if you'reworking on a work problem or
(00:57):
you're struggling with arelationship at work, you can
actually receive data from yourdreams, like a letter from your
subconscious, about what youmight do in waking life.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Super interesting.
Okay, so I do go to sleep and Ido dream.
Is this for people like me?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, it is for people like you.
It's for anyone who's just kindof curious and wants to listen
more deeply to their inner voice.
You know we listen to a lot ofpodcasts.
I love podcasts.
We're here, thank you.
We're here, thank you.
We're listening to a lot ofdifferent noise in our waking
life and this is an opportunityto get some signal.
(01:33):
Think about when you were a kidor maybe you have kids, and
kids dream a lot.
You might have been told as akid like, oh, don't worry about
that, that's just a dream.
Or maybe you've even said thatto your own child.
It's totally okay.
But we have been told as a kidlike, oh, don't worry about that
, that's just a dream.
Or maybe you've even said thatto your own child, it's totally
OK.
But we have been trained to notthink about our dreams as a
serious thing.
Totally Right, it's just adream.
(01:53):
It's just a dream.
And what I've learned isactually you can take your
dreams more seriously and whenyou do, it opens up so many
possibilities for you in yourwaking life.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It's kind of funny timing.
I'm rewatching NorthernExposure right now for the first
time since the first time, andI didn't remember as a kid how
often dreams and the meaning ofdreams comes up in that show.
So maybe there's a signal thereI should pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I love that show.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So let's dig in here.
Take me step by step.
How do I go about finding thedata in my dreams?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Step one keep a notebook by your bed.
I just use a blank, no linesmoleskin and a pen I love, but
you can use literally anythingand just keep it right next to
your bed so that when you wakeup, before you even open your
eyes, you grab that journal andyou write down as much as you
can remember and that's it.
That's all you need to do inthat moment and then, if you
(02:58):
have time and interest later inthe day, you can go back to it.
You can look at what you wrotedown.
You can think about a title forthe dream, think about the
feeling and retell yourself thestory of what happened in the
dream.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What if I can't really remember the dream?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
That's okay.
You just write down, even ifit's a word or two words.
You do that and it will trainyour mind to deliver you more
dreams that you can remember.
I promise you, if you startdoing this and you write down
literally anything and you do itconsistently, you will start to
remember your dreams more sojust like any other kind of
(03:36):
practice.
It's just like any other kind ofpractice and it's free.
You don't need a coach, youdon't need an app, you don't
need to pay anything.
It's totally free.
It's with you all the time.
All you have to do is to go tosleep.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
How anti-2024.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It's the most you know capitalism free thing you
could do with your time.
And let me give you an exampleof a dream I had this week and
how it relates to my work and mywaking life.
So in my waking life, I'mbuilding a startup, I'm
incubating a venture Awesome andI love it.
I'm super passionate about itand I have my moments of doubt
(04:15):
too, because she doesn't.
I'm human.
And one of the dreams I hadthis week I was explaining to a
friend of mine who is a lawyerhow she can scale her business.
Literally, in my dream, I wasexplaining to her like a four
step process.
I was like you do this, andthen you do this, and then you
do this, and here's how youstructure your team and here's
what you need to do.
(04:35):
And when I woke up, I realizedthis dream is almost like a joke
, right?
Because if I can explain tomyself while I'm sleeping how to
scale my business, of course Ican do this while I'm awake.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
You can literally do it in your sleep.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I can literally do it in my sleep, and that's what my
dream was.
It was like a practice, youknow, but it was also um.
It also was funny.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So let me recap this a little bit.
So, first step it sounds likewe're going to keep the notebook
something really easy by thebed, probably nothing to turn on
and boot up, and then, as soonas I wake up, the first thing
I'm going to do before I lose itis just write down anything I
can remember, and it sounds likeit doesn't have to be like
facts or details, it could beeven feelings or colors or
anything like that.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It could even be a drawing.
If that's how things come toyou, you can draw it.
I like that.
And then the more I keep thatup, the more dreams I will
probably start to remember.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
That's right, and then the more advanced I know
you like to talk about the 201on the show, people who are like
, yeah, yeah, I got that, I gotthat, what's?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
next, exactly what's next?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So what's next is go back to your journal, look at it
, retell the story and see whatthe overall impression is.
Are there any lessons ortakeaways?
And then do you want to playwith it?
You can, in an imaginary way,reenter your dream.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Reenter you.
Was this the Jetsons?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, you can.
You can pretend it's alandscape, right?
Let's say you want to exploreit?
What's around that corner?
Let me talk to this person, andthen you can change the ending
of the dream too.
Let's say it was something thatended with this kind of tension
or this thing that wasn'tsatisfied.
But then I can go back andimagine a different conversation
(06:26):
.
We could have had a differentending to that dream, yeah, yeah
, and this is something that youcan take back to your
one-on-ones and your teammeetings.
If you're like, hey, I don'tlike the way that actually ended
up.
You can imagine a differentending for yourself and replay
it, either just in yourimagination that's powerful or
with other people, and see what,see what that opens up.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I could see how that would bring a sense of closure
if you get stuck on thatunfinished business or what you
could have done differently,maybe even a sense of more
control or agency.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
A hundred percent yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Fascinating.
Is there anything to watch outfor here in this process?
Any wrong paths?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Some of your dreams might just be noise, and you
will be able to tell the signalfrom the noise.
When you have a dream thatoffers you clarity, it has a
different texture to it andyou'll be able to tell the more
that you do this.
Which ones were just like, okay, that was just me decompressing
from my day, versus there's amessage in here for me, okay.
(07:27):
And then the other.
I wouldn't say it's a pitfall,but it is a risk, and what you
should know is that when youstart listening to yourself,
when you start listening to yourdreams, you may want to take
some big action in your wakinglife.
So, for example, I knew forabout two years before I left my
(07:52):
role in meta that I wanted togo, but it was having a very
specific, very vivid dream thatwas the catalyst to say, okay,
now this is it.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Talk about data-driven decision making.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah it was data-driven decision-making.
Yeah, it was data-drivendecision-making, but not all
data comes on a spreadsheet.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Fair point.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Listening to your dreams can be an act of deep
compassion and self-trust andbelief, when you acknowledge
yourself as having somethingworthy to tell yourself wow,
that can change your life.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, this is some extreme self-care.
And you heard her everybody.
Let's grab those notebooks andoff to bed, good night.
You can connect with Sarah onLinkedIn and at her website,
recipeasfeelingcom.
Subscribe to the Substack forrecipes on food and life.
In the show notes we'll have alink to the PDF cheat sheet that
(08:51):
accompanies every Upshotsepisode.
This podcast is brought to youby Unserious Group.
We are a communications andstrategic consulting practice
that helps companies and leadersnavigate the rapidly changing
workplace by lowering the stakesand working more efficiently,
playfully and creatively, andwe're open for business.
So check out unseriouscom andlet's be work friends.
At Unserious, we make work play.
This is Unserious that you can start using right
away.
Our guest today is Sarah Epps,a community builder, author and
product leader, incubating herdreams after a 17-year stint in
Silicon Valley tech.
Welcome, Sarah.
What are we digging into thisweek?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Micah, we are talking about your dreams and using
data from your dreams, data fromIs this like electrodes on my
brain and sci-fi equipment?
That would be super cool, butit's super low tech.
You just go to sleep, you wakeup and you write down something
and then you can use it in yourwaking life.
So, for example, if you'reworking on a work problem or
(00:57):
you're struggling with arelationship at work, you can
actually receive data from yourdreams, like a letter from your
subconscious, about what youmight do in waking life.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Super interesting.
Okay, so I do go to sleep and Ido dream.
Is this for people like me?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, it is for people like you.
It's for anyone who's just kindof curious and wants to listen
more deeply to their inner voice.
You know we listen to a lot ofpodcasts.
I love podcasts.
We're here, thank you.
We're here, thank you.
We're listening to a lot ofdifferent noise in our waking
life and this is an opportunityto get some signal.
(01:33):
Think about when you were a kidor maybe you have kids, and
kids dream a lot.
You might have been told as akid like, oh, don't worry about
that, that's just a dream.
Or maybe you've even said thatto your own child.
It's totally okay.
But we have been told as a kidlike, oh, don't worry about that
, that's just a dream.
Or maybe you've even said thatto your own child, it's totally
OK.
But we have been trained to notthink about our dreams as a
serious thing.
Totally Right, it's just adream.
(01:53):
It's just a dream.
And what I've learned isactually you can take your
dreams more seriously and whenyou do, it opens up so many
possibilities for you in yourwaking life.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It's kind of funny timing.
I'm rewatching NorthernExposure right now for the first
time since the first time, andI didn't remember as a kid how
often dreams and the meaning ofdreams comes up in that show.
So maybe there's a signal thereI should pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I love that show.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So let's dig in here.
Take me step by step.
How do I go about finding thedata in my dreams?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Step one keep a notebook by your bed.
I just use a blank, no linesmoleskin and a pen I love, but
you can use literally anythingand just keep it right next to
your bed so that when you wakeup, before you even open your
eyes, you grab that journal andyou write down as much as you
can remember and that's it.
That's all you need to do inthat moment and then, if you
(02:58):
have time and interest later inthe day, you can go back to it.
You can look at what you wrotedown.
You can think about a title forthe dream, think about the
feeling and retell yourself thestory of what happened in the
dream.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What if I can't really remember the dream?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
That's okay.
You just write down, even ifit's a word or two words.
You do that and it will trainyour mind to deliver you more
dreams that you can remember.
I promise you, if you startdoing this and you write down
literally anything and you do itconsistently, you will start to
remember your dreams more sojust like any other kind of
(03:36):
practice.
It's just like any other kind ofpractice and it's free.
You don't need a coach, youdon't need an app, you don't
need to pay anything.
It's totally free.
It's with you all the time.
All you have to do is to go tosleep.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
How anti-2024.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It's the most you know capitalism free thing you
could do with your time.
And let me give you an exampleof a dream I had this week and
how it relates to my work and mywaking life.
So in my waking life, I'mbuilding a startup, I'm
incubating a venture Awesome andI love it.
I'm super passionate about itand I have my moments of doubt
(04:15):
too, because she doesn't.
I'm human.
And one of the dreams I hadthis week I was explaining to a
friend of mine who is a lawyerhow she can scale her business.
Literally, in my dream, I wasexplaining to her like a four
step process.
I was like you do this, andthen you do this, and then you
do this, and here's how youstructure your team and here's
what you need to do.
(04:35):
And when I woke up, I realizedthis dream is almost like a joke
, right?
Because if I can explain tomyself while I'm sleeping how to
scale my business, of course Ican do this while I'm awake.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
You can literally do it in your sleep.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I can literally do it in my sleep, and that's what my
dream was.
It was like a practice, youknow, but it was also um.
It also was funny.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So let me recap this a little bit.
So, first step it sounds likewe're going to keep the notebook
something really easy by thebed, probably nothing to turn on
and boot up, and then, as soonas I wake up, the first thing
I'm going to do before I lose itis just write down anything I
can remember, and it sounds likeit doesn't have to be like
facts or details, it could beeven feelings or colors or
anything like that.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It could even be a drawing.
If that's how things come toyou, you can draw it.
I like that.
And then the more I keep thatup, the more dreams I will
probably start to remember.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
That's right, and then the more advanced I know
you like to talk about the 201on the show, people who are like
, yeah, yeah, I got that, I gotthat, what's?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
next, exactly what's next?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So what's next is go back to your journal, look at it
, retell the story and see whatthe overall impression is.
Are there any lessons ortakeaways?
And then do you want to playwith it?
You can, in an imaginary way,reenter your dream.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Reenter you.
Was this the Jetsons?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, you can.
You can pretend it's alandscape, right?
Let's say you want to exploreit?
What's around that corner?
Let me talk to this person, andthen you can change the ending
of the dream too.
Let's say it was something thatended with this kind of tension
or this thing that wasn'tsatisfied.
But then I can go back andimagine a different conversation
(06:26):
.
We could have had a differentending to that dream, yeah, yeah
, and this is something that youcan take back to your
one-on-ones and your teammeetings.
If you're like, hey, I don'tlike the way that actually ended
up.
You can imagine a differentending for yourself and replay
it, either just in yourimagination that's powerful or
with other people, and see what,see what that opens up.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I could see how that would bring a sense of closure
if you get stuck on thatunfinished business or what you
could have done differently,maybe even a sense of more
control or agency.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
A hundred percent yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Fascinating.
Is there anything to watch outfor here in this process?
Any wrong paths?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Some of your dreams might just be noise, and you
will be able to tell the signalfrom the noise.
When you have a dream thatoffers you clarity, it has a
different texture to it andyou'll be able to tell the more
that you do this.
Which ones were just like, okay, that was just me decompressing
from my day, versus there's amessage in here for me, okay.
(07:27):
And then the other.
I wouldn't say it's a pitfall,but it is a risk, and what you
should know is that when youstart listening to yourself,
when you start listening to yourdreams, you may want to take
some big action in your wakinglife.
So, for example, I knew forabout two years before I left my
(07:52):
role in meta that I wanted togo, but it was having a very
specific, very vivid dream thatwas the catalyst to say, okay,
now this is it.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Talk about data-driven decision making.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah it was data-driven decision-making.
Yeah, it was data-drivendecision-making, but not all
data comes on a spreadsheet.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Fair point.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Listening to your dreams can be an act of deep
compassion and self-trust andbelief, when you acknowledge
yourself as having somethingworthy to tell yourself wow,
that can change your life.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, this is some extreme self-care.
And you heard her everybody.
Let's grab those notebooks andoff to bed, good night.
You can connect with Sarah onLinkedIn and at her website,
recipeasfeelingcom.
Subscribe to the Substack forrecipes on food and life.
In the show notes we'll have alink to the PDF cheat sheet that
(08:51):
accompanies every Upshotsepisode.
This podcast is brought to youby Unserious Group.
We are a communications andstrategic consulting practice
that helps companies and leadersnavigate the rapidly changing
workplace by lowering the stakesand working more efficiently,
playfully and creatively, andwe're open for business.
So check out unseriouscom andlet's be work friends.
At Unserious, we make work play.
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