October 27, 2024 • 47 mins
In this episode, we dive into the essential topic of spiritual gifts and their impact on your faith journey. Here’s what you can expect:
- What Are Spiritual Gifts? Get a clear understanding of sign gifts like speaking in tongues and their roles within the church.
- Different Perspectives: We discuss various views on spiritual gifts, including cessationism and continuationism, providing a balanced exploration of each.
- Insight from our Pastors: Pastor Bob and Pastor Trent share their take on spiritual gifts and how they have found what they have been gifted in, and offering real-life examples of how to find your gifts to be used for the body of the church.
- Identifying Your Gifts: Learn practical steps to discover and develop your own spiritual gifts, including scriptural study and seeking advice from your church community.
- Empowering the Church: Understand how utilizing your gifts strengthens not just your personal faith but also your entire church body, drawing the church closer to Christ.
Join us to deepen your understanding of spiritual gifts and learn how to actively contribute to your community with gifts given to you by the Holy Spirit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Trent (00:06):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Unsexy Church
podcast.
That was very smooth.
It was very smooth.
I think we should hear someapplause.
People are clapping in thestudio.
Actually, they're not in thestudio.
They're a part of our newlittle machine that we have for
the podcast, which is so niceit's.
Bob (00:25):
Ben and or Ben Trent and Kara have a new toy.
Trent (00:28):
Did you forget my name?
I?
Bob (00:29):
don't know, it's Wednesday afternoon.
It's weird.
Trent (00:32):
We have a new toy and our research assistant, kara,
actually has a microphone rightnow.
We're not always going to giveher a microphone, but we have
three, and so I said why don'tyou just hop on one?
So you want to test your mic?
Hello, you can actually hearher.
Bob (00:43):
You can hear her voice.
Kara is not a figment of ourimagination.
She's real.
Trent (00:48):
So if we actually well, if we address a question to her,
she can actually answer itWithout leaning all the way in,
and trying to yeah.
Yeah, they're very directionalmics.
You got to be close to them, soif you're far you can't hear.
Bob (00:59):
How are we doing?
I feel like it's been a while.
It has been a long while.
Trent (01:03):
Yeah.
Bob (01:03):
Has it not?
Trent (01:04):
Yeah, we recorded an episode.
Was it two weeks ago, in theaftermath of Hurricane.
Kara (01:10):
Helene.
Trent (01:11):
Yes, and then Hurricane Milton came, and by the grace of
God, it did not hit as strongas they projected it to.
Bob (01:18):
Not in our immediate area.
Yeah, yeah.
Trent (01:21):
Yeah, which even down south it didn't seem like it hit
as strong as they projected itto.
It kind of lessened when it gotto land, which I'm thankful for
.
Well, hey, this machine'spretty cool.
Pastor Bob, are we going tohear some?
Can you just say somethingpretty insightful?
Probably not.
Well, hold on, I didn't havethe volume up, so say that again
(01:43):
.
Probably not now.
Just say something.
Uh, you know from the bible.
Bob (01:52):
Just anything in the beginning.
God created the heavens and theearth.
There it is.
There it Like a 1970s game show.
Trent (02:06):
It's so cool though.
Yeah, this is awesome.
Hey, well, I've got a fact.
We'll just start out with oh.
Going straight to the fact ofthe day, yeah, let's do it.
Okay.
Did you know that sloths one of, if not, the slowest moving
creature in the animal universe?
(02:26):
Did you know they have to burptheir toots?
Kara (02:27):
What does that even mean?
Trent (02:29):
It means they cannot toot and it means that they have to
remove all of the gas gastro.
No, yeah, no, they cannot toot.
Bob (02:38):
It's a thing I'm not an expert in.
Trent (02:40):
Here's what I told tree sloths.
Bob (02:43):
But I have that heart.
I find that biologically hardto accept.
Trent (02:46):
Here's what it says.
Sloths are slow in everythingthey do, including digestion,
because they digest food soslowly they basically have to
breathe out their farts becausethey can't actually fart.
Can we say fart on the podcast?
Bob (02:57):
You just did twice.
I said toot the first time.
Trent (03:00):
What about poot P-O-O-T?
Bob (03:02):
You're going to have to ask the parents who let their
children listen to this podcast.
Yeah, actually don't.
You must apologize to them nowfor using such language.
Trent (03:10):
Well, the problem is, I don't let my kids say that word
and they listen to the podcast.
My wife listens to the podcast.
You're in trouble at home.
I use the phrase toot they'regoing to be laughing in the car
this, by the way.
Yes, I use the phrase to withthe duncans.
You help me come up with thisfact.
Uh, not come up with a fact,but find it, and find it for the
(03:30):
podcast.
And uh, they use the word fart.
And so I was like, all right,ah, okay, no, it's all right, so
it's a medical term.
Bob (03:37):
Um, flatulence is the medical term you know I,
regardless of the term, I findthis hard to believe.
Well, there's no way of knowingand I doubt, even with the
Duncans looking at this.
I you know they're smartchildren, but I doubt your
sources.
Trent (03:54):
Okay, well, look up and see if sloths can flatulate.
And I know flatulence istechnically the scientific term
because Nickelodeon in the early2000s had these random science
facts in between shows and theyused the term flatulence and
they said that boys and girlsflatulate somewhere between 20
(04:17):
and 25 times a day.
Bob (04:19):
Did you know?
Trent (04:19):
that that's lovely More than you would think.
Bob (04:22):
It is a lot.
Trent (04:22):
Yeah, all right, is it accurate?
Are you above or below?
Kara (04:25):
the curve According to the AI overview?
Well, ask my wife.
She'd say above According tothe AI overview on Google.
No sloths cannot fart.
Trent (04:34):
Oh well, you know what AI said it, so that's definitive.
Bob (04:39):
So they don't have stomachs .
They don't have bowels stomachs, they don't have bowels.
Trent (04:42):
They don't have intestines.
Hey, can you just say for aminute good job, trent, you're
right no, I can't, just for asecond.
Bob (04:47):
I can't say that.
Can you say it?
Trent (04:48):
I have a button I want to press.
I have a button I want to press.
Can you say good job, trent youthink you're right I'm gonna
keep hitting the buttons today,I know hey, uh, I do have a
question for you as well.
Um so, uh, I know I don't thinkyou drink a lot of soda.
I do not.
I don't drink a lot of sodaeither.
Kara, do you drink a lot ofsoda?
Kara (05:08):
Every now and again.
Trent (05:09):
Okay, so there are six sodas on the list I'm about to
give, representing the kind ofdifferent genres, if you will,
of sodas and you need to pickfour and get rid of two, keep
four, reject two.
Yep, here are the six.
Okay, barks root beer or anyroot beer for that matter, but I
think Barks is the most common.
It's the metal or silver can.
(05:30):
Is it decaf?
It is one of the only rootbeers that is not decaf.
Kara (05:35):
Mug is decaf, all should be decaf.
Bob (05:37):
Just say A&W.
We'll say A&W.
One of them is I.
I never remember which one itis.
Trent (05:41):
A&W and mug or decaf.
Barks is not, ah, okay, barksis caffeinated, okay, but I
think, okay, here's the deal.
Bob (05:47):
Just root beer.
Trent (05:49):
Barks is the best tasting root beer in a can.
A&w belongs in a frosted mug.
Bob (05:54):
Okay, you've given this a lot of thought.
Trent (05:58):
Fanta orange soda or sun-kissed, but I think Fanta's
better Pepsi Coke Mountain Dewand Dr Pepper.
I'll repeat Root beer, orangesoda, pepsi Coke Mountain Dew or
Dr Pepper.
Four stay to go.
Bob (06:18):
Dr Pepper Mountain Dew Coke Root beer.
Trent (06:23):
So you're getting rid of orange, soda and Pepsi.
Yes, okay, do you like orange?
Soda and Pepsi, yes, okay, doyou like orange soda?
I tolerate it, but Cokedefinitely beats Pepsi.
Oh, 100%, I agree.
All day, every day.
All right, kara, what's yourlist?
Kara (06:34):
My list is Coke, dr Pepper , root beer, orange soda and I'm
getting rid of Pepsi andMountain Dew.
Trent (06:41):
You're getting rid of Mountain Dew I do not like
Mountain Dew that much Really.
Do you like a Baja Blast?
Kara (06:47):
I like it enough, yeah.
I gave the one the other day toJordan.
Trent (06:52):
Well, you gave it to him like three hours after he'd been
sitting.
Kara (06:54):
He did like it, though he was like yay, I don't like Baja
Blast.
Trent (06:58):
Do you like any of the Mountain Dew flavors?
Pastor Bob, Like the extraflavors I can't drink any of
them.
Bob (07:02):
I was going off.
You can drink Diet Mountain Dew, can't you?
Trent (07:05):
No.
Bob (07:06):
It's just all the caffeine.
Trent (07:07):
Yeah, it's the caffeine Is there a non-caffeinated
Mountain Dew?
Bob (07:11):
Defeat the purpose of Mountain Dew, wouldn't it?
Yeah, probably so.
Trent (07:14):
Yeah, okay, I would get rid of Pepsi as well.
Bob (07:24):
Do you know which city Dr Pepper was formulated in?
Trent (07:28):
No, and it's weird that you do.
It's not weird that I do.
Once you know what city it is.
Is it Tampa?
It is not.
Where is it at?
Bob (07:33):
Waco Texas.
Trent (07:34):
Really.
Yes, there's a.
Bob (07:36):
Dr Pepper museum right there in Waco.
Trent (07:39):
Dr Pepper.
Is it owned by PepsiCo or byCoca-Cola?
Bob (07:43):
I'm sure it probably is, I don't know.
Yeah, I honestly don't know.
Trent (07:46):
Yeah, I think Mountain Dew was its own brand for a
while and now I think it'sPepsiCo.
I think that's correct, but Ithink Dr Pepper may still be its
own, because I think placesthat have Coke and places that
have Pepsi have both.
Bob (07:57):
Can I ask why Sprite was not on the list?
We could have put SpriteSprite's not caffeinated.
Is Sprite one of your favorites?
No, but it's one that I canstill drink, so if I have a soda
now, it would be a Sprite.
Trent (08:11):
Yeah, I like Sprite.
If I'm drinking something inthe evening, like if I have a
late meal, I don't want caffeine.
It's not too sweet, but it'salmost just like carbonated
water.
There's just a little bit ofsugar in it and just a tiny bit
of flavor.
It's significantly better thanlike a La Croix or something
(08:33):
like that that has a drop ofsome kind of flavor in it, but
it's just okay.
Are you a Sprite fan, kara?
Kara (08:42):
Sprite's all right.
It's refreshing, it's okay.
Trent (08:44):
Do you know Sprite fan?
Kara, sprite's all right, it'srefreshing, it's okay.
Do you know the story behind?
So, like Sierra Mist is notSierra Mist anymore.
Do you know the story?
Kara (08:52):
Oh, it's like Starry, it's Starry.
Have you seen that around?
Trent (08:55):
Starry.
So you got a Taco Bell.
It's Starry.
Now it's not Sierra Mist, right, because they had the, which
had Sierra Mist, and not Sprite,co-cast Sprite.
But Sierra Mist with a C,c-i-e-r-a, m-i-s-t.
Is a girl who got the rightswhen the rights of the name
(09:21):
Sierra Mist.
Like, I guess they have torenew for the rights of the
names here.
I missed Like, like I guessthey have to renew for the
rights of the name and shestepped in and grabbed it from
them.
That's so funny and so she's nowbecome popular, like on
Instagram or Tik TOK orsomething like that.
But but yeah, so she has therights to the name.
Kara (09:38):
So her name isn't even spelled the same way that it,
you know, I don't.
Trent (09:41):
I don't know all the details, but, yeah, her name is
not spelled the same way, so Idon't know if she just tried to
act like actually grab it too,because it sounds this.
I'm not sure, but you cangoogle it there's no way to know
no way to know, no way to findout.
Bob (09:53):
We have caron a mic now oh, so that supersedes all other
okay maybe we can I, you knowokay research assistant.
Trent (10:01):
You know, Okay.
Kara (10:02):
Research assistant.
Is it Sierra Mist?
Like spelled like that.
Trent (10:05):
Yeah, I guess there's two R's C-I-E-R-R-A, so the S is
the only difference and she,like sued for the rights or got
the rights in a lapse oftrademark or something.
Is that true?
Kara (10:21):
Okay, I'm only seeing some random Reddit pages.
Yeah, Reddit's pretty sketchy Idon't see anything that seems
valid at the moment.
Trent (10:31):
Look at Sierra Miss, look up her name and then look up
Starry S-T-R-R-Y.
Here's two R's and then, if wehad like a da-na-na on this, I'd
be playing it right now.
You're just promoting urbanmyths.
Hey, while we wait, Bob, canyou just check your mic?
Your mic's not sounding rightfor some reason.
(10:52):
Can you check it?
What am I going to sound like?
Kara (10:54):
now.
Trent (10:56):
We can change the way his voice sounds, any shot.
Kara (11:01):
There's a random website called Sporked.
Trent (11:04):
Oh, it definitely sounds like a legitimate website.
What does it say?
What's the headline?
Kara (11:11):
What happened to Sierra Mist?
Trent (11:12):
Okay, give us a synopsis.
Just scan it really fast.
Kara (11:17):
PepsiCo never quite knew what to do with the brand.
It rebranded as Mist Twist.
What?
Briefly?
In 2015, for some reason,apparently.
I do not remember that.
Why is it Starry?
Trent (11:32):
It does not seem like it is confirming what I said.
No, it does not.
Bob (11:36):
But I am pretty sure it is accurate.
You might do your researchbefore you throw this stuff out
there.
Kara (11:39):
I am pretty sure it is accurate.
It is not saying anything aboutthis chick.
Bob (11:43):
Our audience is fascinated by this right now.
Trent (11:45):
All right.
Hey, so today we are, you knowfacts are facts.
Okay, so today we're going totalk about spiritual gifts.
Pastor Bob Talking about whatSpiritual gifts?
Spiritual gifts.
Bob (12:03):
I like gifts.
Gifts are nice.
Trent (12:04):
They are.
Kara (12:04):
What about spiritual ones?
Spiritual gifts, spiritualgifts I like gifts.
Gifts are nice, they are.
What about spiritual ones?
Bob (12:06):
Spiritual even better.
Kara (12:07):
Yeah.
Bob (12:08):
They last longer.
Trent (12:09):
Can you remember like a gift that you were given back in
like middle school or highschool for Christmas that you
were like this just wasincredible, like surely, like
one time you went, you guys gavegifts under the tree growing up
, sure, okay, yeah, uh and uh,was there ever a gift that were
like?
That was just like lifealtering for them, for at least
(12:31):
for that day it's like, oh man,my life's never been the same.
I've got a new bike or I've gotah, it's so cool.
Bob (12:38):
You remember middle school or high school, I don't remember
my parents always gave greatgifts, but I don't remember any
life-altering gifts in highschool.
But younger From the mind ofthe age you ever heard of
electronic football.
Trent (12:51):
Not the little game.
Bob (12:52):
Oh, no, like vibrating, vibrating, the feel.
You put the little guys onthere and they had a felt
football and they vibrated downthe view and set them up.
Oh yeah, loved that game.
Yeah, that's cool, that waslife-altering.
Yes, that's awesome.
Trent (13:07):
There was a year where I got both a bike and a snowboard.
Now when we say snowboard, thatsounds like they went over the
top, but it was like one thatyou got A couple two-by-fours.
It was one you slipped yourfeet into but it didn't snap,
that kind of thing.
But I just thought it was coolsaying I can ride a bike when
there's no snow and when there'ssnow I can actually get on my
(13:28):
snowboard and I can ride asnowboard.
I can get around everywhere.
How awesome is this going to be?
I used that snowboard for anumber of years.
Actually, we tied one of thoseratchet straps.
We used one of the ratchetstraps and held one end of it.
We pulled off the crank and weheld one of it on the back of a
friend's truck and rodesnowboard behind the truck.
It was so much fun.
It's hard to do.
(13:49):
Here in Tampa In college I useda penny board.
You know what a penny board is?
No.
So a penny board is like aredesign, a new brand that
brought back kind of theskateboards of, like, I think,
the 70s.
Kara (14:04):
I have no idea.
Do you know what a penny boardis?
Yeah, I know what a penny boardis.
Yeah, I just don't know when.
Trent (14:07):
Yeah, I think it's like the seventies.
So it's like the wider wheels,the smaller skateboard that's
hard plastic and kind of shapedalmost like a surfboard, and the
penny one's the smaller andthey make a nickel which is a
little bigger but your barelyfit on it and, um, during finals
week my senior year of college,uh, we tried to see how fast a
car could go hanging on to it.
So is that 70s ish?
(14:28):
That's the board of mychildhood.
Yeah, yeah, early 80s, 70s,something like that.
Yeah, um, so yeah, we try toget as fast as we could behind
or the car as fast as we could.
Bob (14:38):
It sounds like a great idea .
Can you guess how fast we?
Trent (14:42):
got 35.
33.
Bob (14:44):
Yeah, 33 was the number 33.
Trent (14:46):
It was so cool and we took it on the road.
So we mostly went on almostlike the cement kind of roads on
the campus, which were a lotsmoother, and then we took it to
the road and it was a lot morewobbly with the asphalt.
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
It was pretty fun.
It's a great story.
Yeah, it's pretty fun.
It's a great story.
Yeah, spiritual gifts,spiritual gifts.
So I think this episode'sactually going to be on our
website.
We're doing a website redesignand kara said why don't you guys
(15:07):
talk about spiritual gifts sothat we can put it on a page
dedicated to spiritual gifts?
Bob (15:12):
okay, so they're gonna have to listen, so we have to be
serious about this.
Trent (15:14):
Well, they're gonna have to listen to a number of things
beforehand and they're gonnaknow we're not super serious so
um.
So, kara, what do you want?
To ask the questions Do youwant?
How do you want this to work?
Kara (15:23):
I would love to ask the questions.
Trent (15:24):
Okay, and if we're not clear, ask further.
Kara (15:28):
I shall.
Okay.
Are you ready for the first one?
Yep.
Trent (15:30):
Do I need some noise before you ask it?
Kara (15:32):
I mean if, if, if you would like.
Trent (15:35):
I don't, I don't know which one let's do.
Uh no, I don't really have.
You're having too much fun withthis, hey karen, hey karen can
you?
Kara (15:48):
can you hurry up and ask the question here, can you?
Uh, okay, so so what arespiritual gifts?
What are spiritual gifts?
Gifts that are spiritual, giftsthat are spiritual yes, I feel
like people throw it around alot like what's your spiritual
gift?
This is mine, I don't, and Iit's hard to know.
You know, like, what are youtalking about?
Bob (16:04):
Okay, so do you want like a definition?
Or do you want?
Okay, All right.
So I will answer the questionin two ways.
I'll give you a definition ofspiritual gifts and also answer
by saying what spiritual giftsare not.
So, let's start with whatspiritual gifts are not the
spirit right?
Trent (16:24):
So Galatians 5, love, joy peace, patience, kindness
that's not what we're talkingabout when we're talking about
spiritual gifts.
So we don't have to wait to begiven something from the Holy
Spirit to be more loving,correct.
We already have that.
Bob (16:32):
It should be the overflow of.
God in our lives.
Spiritual gifts are also notnatural talents.
They're not the ability to runfast or to sing or those kinds
of things.
Trent (16:41):
But God could give you a talent at a young age.
Bob (16:44):
That matures in you, sure, but it's not by definition a
spiritual gift.
Trent (16:49):
So God may have made Michael Jordan a really good
jumper.
Yes, but, not necessarily agift spiritual gift.
Bob (16:57):
Right, okay, okay.
So a spiritual gift is anoutpouring of the Holy Spirit in
a believer's life that equipsthem and enables them to do
works of service for thebuilding up of the body of
Christ.
That's how I would define aspiritual gift.
It's an outpouring of the HolySpirit.
It's not something we do.
It is something that God givesus through the Holy Spirit, I
(17:19):
believe, at the time ofsalvation, when we've trusted in
him and the Holy Spiritindwells us.
It's an outpouring of the HolySpirit that enables us to do
what God's called us to do, torepresent him, and it's used to
build up the body of Christ.
So you don't have it foryourself.
You use it within the body ofChrist to help each other, to
build each other up.
Trent (17:38):
So not used for someone's personal platform necessarily
of propagating the gospel,someone's personal platform
necessarily of propagating thegospel, but for the edification
of others, whether it be gospelfurtherance or church
edification, edifying the body,serving the body.
Bob (17:52):
And all believers have at least one.
We probably have more than one,but we have at least one.
So everybody is gifted.
The Greek words that are usedto define this are words
charismata, which is where weget the word charismatic, or
charisma, which is just grace,gift, a gift of grace.
(18:14):
So it's not something we have,it's something God graces to us
gives us, specifically,believers Correct For the
edification of the church.
Now they can be developed, theycan be matured, you can grow in
them and we should all, oncewe've identified them, we should
grow in them and utilize them.
Kara (18:35):
Could you give me some examples of some spiritual gifts
?
Bob (18:38):
Sure, I could give you a couple lists of spiritual gifts.
Specifically, I would pointeverybody to Romans chapter 12
and 1 Corinthians, chapter 12,which are the two passages that
tend to list spiritualgiftedness.
So there are lots of them.
Teaching administration helpsevangelism service helps
(19:01):
evangelism service encouragementdiscernment, prophecy, wisdom,
prophecy, wisdom, faith.
Trent (19:09):
And that's not initial faith of believing in Christ,
that's faith in.
God.
Trust in God.
Bob (19:15):
Speaking in tongues.
Interpretation of tongues.
Trent (19:20):
Seeing anything else, healing, healing is one.
Did you say discernment?
Bob (19:25):
I did, I think I did.
Trent (19:26):
Okay, mercy, yeah, leadership, leadership,
hospitality or giving.
Bob (19:33):
So those are.
Those are what are listed inRomans 12 and first Corinthians
12.
Trent (19:38):
And, to be clear, there's a few of those like serving.
If you don't have necessarilythe gift of serving, that
doesn't exclude you from havingto serve right, or if you don't
have the gift of teaching, thatdoesn't mean that you take
opportunities to teach a fellowbrother or sister in Christ,
making disciples, maturing theminto.
Bob (19:52):
Yeah, Evangelism.
We're all called to evangelism.
Not all of us have thespiritual gift of evangelism.
It doesn't excuse us fromevangelizing, but there are
certain people that are justgifted in that area and it's a
gift that comes from God.
Trent (20:07):
Now I think we've probably answered some questions
on this list already.
Just to look at both of thosepassages 1 Corinthians 12 and
Romans 12.
In 1 Corinthians 12, there area number of issues in the church
at Corinth, and yet God hadbeen gracious to these people
who had disobeyed him in manyways, by giving them gifts to
serve one another really well.
(20:28):
There was relationship problemswithin that body and these
gifts were to enable them toserve one another spiritually,
not just fleshly.
And so he lists the gifts in 1Corinthians 12.
He says these are given byGod's spirit.
It means you don't get tochoose which one you think
(20:48):
you're better at.
Naturally, it doesn't mean youget to pick one if you like one
better than the other.
In fact, that probably is thebackground to why he wrote 1
Corinthians 12, 13, and 14.
There were different people that, it seems, wanted very visible,
verbal gifts.
And so in 1 Corinthians 12, hesays well, the spirit gives
(21:11):
these and therefore the mutualedification of one another, and
you're to use these gifts, kindof like different parts of a
body.
Just as the hand serves therest of the body or the head
serves the rest of the body andworks in conjunction with you
are to work in conjunction withone another.
Some of you like a hand, someof you like a foot, some of you
like a nose, some of you likeears discerning, and then goes
(21:34):
on to say but if you don't usethese gifts in love, what are
you guys doing?
She's looking at my notes.
But if you don't use thesegifts in love, they're worthless
.
Love should motivate the gifts.
He says you could speak in thetongues of men and angels, which
I don't think is an actuallanguage.
I think you could speak in thetongues of men and angels, but
(21:56):
if you don't have love, usingthese gifts means nothing.
Kara (21:59):
It means absolutely nothing.
Trent (22:01):
So that's 1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter.
You're to use these gifts, notbeing rude but being patient,
putting one another aboveyourself.
And then in 1 Corinthians 14,he says seek out the gifts that
edify others.
Romans 12, in the context ofthat passage where it lifts the
(22:26):
gifts, it begins by saying giveyourselves as a living sacrifice
, meaning lay your life down atthe altar and then serve others.
Well, so in both cases, when wethink about the gifts, we think
about how can I lay down mydesires and serve someone else?
Bob (22:34):
Yeah, as you're saying, 1 Corinthians is written and it
appears that the church ishaving issues of being jealous
of one another's gifts ordesiring a different gift
because they've sensed that onewas greater than another.
So there's arguing going on andPaul's addressing that, and
then first Corinthians 13, ofcourse, is the context of love
(22:57):
you know, it doesn't matter whatgift you have If you don't use
it in love.
you could say the same thingabout Romans, romans 13,.
All about love.
So both contexts where he'stalking about these gifts that
God has given us to edify oneanother, build each other up.
It's not to draw attention toyourself, it's to help your
brother and sister, and to do soin love.
Trent (23:15):
So the spirit gives and enables spiritual service.
But love has to be themotivator.
But love has to be themotivator.
In 1 Corinthians 14, kind ofthe conclusion of the spiritual
gift section in 1 Corinthians,it seems as though what are
known as the sign gifts, whichwe can talk about more later.
But the sign gifts are thegifts that people desired
(23:39):
because they were very visible,flashy.
They were very visible, right.
So this guy can speak in adifferent language.
I want that because that's veryclear, it's a spiritual gift,
because he couldn't speak thatlanguage before.
But I've got the gift ofservice and we're all called to
that.
So, man, I want that gift sopeople can see me as spiritual
(24:01):
and if we're using the gifts tobe seen there, I mean, that's
the.
That's the fundamental problem,right?
Um, gifts are not for apersonal platform, they're for
mutual service.
Yeah, cool.
Kara (24:14):
So so it seems like we've talked about how gifts are
intended for the benefit of thechurch community as a whole, um,
and we receive these gifts forone another to be used for one
another, um, but I am curious,kind of like where?
Just cause I don't really havea really good grasp on this
topic, I guess as a whole, butI'm curious, like, if we're all
(24:35):
called to service, like what,and we receive the gift, uh,
like our spiritual gifts, at themoment when we come to
salvation, like I don't knowsomeone might be I'm thinking
someone might be really good atteaching their whole lives.
Then they come to salvation inthe Lord.
Is it possible that thatteaching might not be their
spiritual gift or that it wouldbe?
(24:56):
I feel like someone from theoutside might see oh, surely
their spiritual gift is teachingor evangelism or something
similar.
Bob (25:03):
Yeah, so I think God can take certain abilities and use
those or magnify them.
Teaching isn't just randomteaching.
It's not teaching anything.
It's specifically teaching theword of God so that people can
understand it.
So you can be a great teacherand not be able to teach the
word of God, so that people canunderstand it.
So just because you're a goodteacher doesn't necessarily mean
(25:25):
your spiritual giftedness isgoing to be teaching.
Kara (25:28):
It may.
Bob (25:29):
It may very well, god may take those things and use them
and then just reapply them tohis word, but it is something
that is unique that you did nothave prior to salvation that
comes and God uses it.
It's interesting that the listsaren't identical Romans 12 and
1 Corinthians 12,.
They're not identical lists andyou would think, why not?
Trent (25:51):
Why aren't they?
Bob (25:52):
identical.
One reason why they're notidentical is because God knew
what the church in Rome needed,and God knew what the church in
Corinth needed, and so eachperson that comes to the church
is gifted uniquely for the needsof that church.
So even here at First Baptist,every person that's a member of
our church is uniquely gifted byGod, and he's brought them here
(26:13):
to this place at this time touse those gifts together.
The analogy Trent mentionedbefore is the body.
We all need hands, we needfingers, we need eyes, we need
heads, we need feet, and Godputs all those things together.
And what the church in Romeneeded was something different,
necessarily, than what thechurch in Corinth needed, and so
they're unique that way.
Trent (26:34):
And so potentially they're not comprehensive lists.
There might be other giftsthere might be.
Bob (26:38):
Right.
Trent (26:39):
That God might give a church at a time and a place.
But I think all of this, like itmatters for us to have a big
view of the local church Right,because that's what your gifts
are given for.
It matters for us to have a bigview of the local church right,
because that's what your giftsare given for and why they're
given and their context for yourspiritual gifts.
So a person may have theability to teach, but the Holy
(27:02):
Spirit might discern that thatchurch body has a lot of
teachers, and so, instead ofgiving this body more mouths, it
says man, I need to gift thischurch so that it has more hands
or more feet.
And so your gift is determinedand given to you by God's Spirit
.
It's 1 Corinthians 12, chapter12, verse 7.
(27:25):
The Holy Spirit delivers ordecides who gets what gift,
because the Holy Spirit knowswhat a particular church, like
you said, needs and what itdoesn't need at the time, and
that may change over time.
People might move, might besent out on mission, and so it
needs another person with thisgift or that gift.
Bob (27:44):
I would also add to this conversation, to your question.
I think God will take some ofthe things that we are
passionate about and gift us inthose areas.
So if you're trying to discernwhat your giftedness is as a
believer, there are tools we canuse.
I think we'll talk about thoselater on, but the first thing I
would start saying is what's onyour heart all the time.
Trent (28:03):
What do you think about all the time?
Bob (28:04):
What is God putting continually before you?
And that's what I would say.
God's leaning you thatdirection.
Um so, if your passion is in umteaching or your passion is in
um discipling or it's kind ofit's, it's just helping, you
don't want to be out front, youjust want to be behind the scene
, but you, every time you seesomebody that's hurting, your
heart hurts.
Those are the ways you canstart to discern.
(28:26):
Okay, this is kind of way thatGod's gifting me.
Is that helpful?
Kara (28:31):
Yeah, very helpful, very helpful.
I want to kind of touch on the,I don't know.
When you read off the list, theones that stuck out to me were
like prophecy, healing, speakingin tongues and I think in
Christian circles those are theones that get a lot of focus.
I mean, yeah, those are theones that get a lot of focus
Because they're very different.
Yeah, they're very differentand they are kind of more flashy
(28:53):
, I guess.
Trent (28:54):
They're clearly supernatural.
Yeah, clearly supernatural.
The others aren't supernatural,but they're clearly
supernatural.
Kara (29:03):
Yeah.
So what is it about thesespiritual gifts that I don't
know?
Why are we talking about themso much as opposed to other ones
, and what does our churchbelieve about these spiritual
gifts?
Bob (29:12):
Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there.
It's a great question.
But no, it's a good question,there's a lot to unpack.
Let's start by saying this youdidn't have this on the list of
questions.
Trent (29:21):
I didn't, but I was curious and I know that people
want to know, and then we canwrap it up.
Bob (29:25):
Inquiring minds want to know, so broadly speaking, folks
generally categorize thespiritual gifts into three
categories.
So there's the speaking gifts,the service gifts and then sign
gifts right.
Other people categorize themdifferent ways, but that's
generally speaking.
Trent (29:42):
And that categorization is people understanding what's
in Scripture?
It's not necessarily from theScripture Right, they're not in
categories, exactly, that's justus trying to's not necessarily
from the scripture Right,they're not they're not in
categories Exactly.
Bob (29:50):
That's just us trying to kind of systematize the
giftedness.
Kind of like one does the oldTestament law Correct Right.
So speaking gifts would be likeprophecy, teaching, uh, wisdom,
knowledge, evangelism.
And then service would beministry giving, um
(30:11):
administration, administration,faith, mercy, discernment.
And then the sign gifts whichare listed are ability to
perform some form of a miracle,like healing somebody or healing
itself, being one speaking intongues, and then interpretation
of tongues.
There are two schools ofthought on sign gifts, and Trent
helped me with this.
One is known as continuationism, which says that these gifts
(30:35):
are still active within the bodyof Christ today.
Trent (30:39):
They have continued from the early church.
Bob (30:41):
Right, so that there are still people that God, through
the Holy Spirit, uses to healpeople, there are still people
who speak in tongues that theydid not know previously, and
there are still people who caninterpret tongues that they
didn't know in other ways.
That's continuationism.
There's another school ofthought called cessationism,
which says that those particulargifts were given during a
(31:03):
particular period of time,particularly the apostolic age,
when the apostles were sent outprior to the word of God being
written and canonized anddistributed, and those gifts
were used to verify theircalling and verify their message
.
And so those gifts were used atthat time so that people would
(31:26):
say, well, I don't know if I canbelieve this guy or not, but I
just watched him heal people.
I don't know if this message isright, but there's this gift of
tongue and he's justinterpreted it, so they would
use that to verify the message.
But because we have the word ofGod now, because it is canonized
, because we have the completerevelation of God in Jesus
(31:46):
Christ, there's no need forthose anymore.
And so the cessationist campwould say, no, those were for
that particular period of time,they do not continue now.
There's some that are hard inthe continuationist camp and
some that are hard in thecessationist camp, and then
there's others that are kind ofin the middle going well.
I'm in this camp, but I'm opento the idea that maybe they do
(32:09):
continue in certain settings.
Trent, you have anything to addto that?
Trent (32:12):
The Pentecostal church would be a continuationist
movement.
The Presbyterian church wouldbe a cessationist movement.
Baptist in the middle, on thistopic, there might be some that
are a little morecontinuationist, but not maybe
embracing everything that thePentecostals do.
There'll be some that are morecessationist, and so even in a
(32:33):
given church, even in leadership, there might be slight nuance
to what someone holds on to here, and I want to be fair to both
sides.
Not every continuationistbelieves everything.
Every other continuationistbelieves.
So one might think, well, thegifts of speaking in tongues
(32:57):
should not be in any way otherthan what the Bible describes.
It should not just be random ina service.
There shouldn't be slaying theSpirit.
That's not even a gift anyways.
So not every continuationist isthe same same and not every
cessationist are the samecessationists.
While they, uh, agree thathealing is no longer a gift
(33:19):
given to individuals, they stillbelieve that God can heal an
individual, of course,supernaturally, at any moment he
wants to, um and any servicethat he wants to.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Bob (33:31):
I fall in the cessationist camp.
I believe that those gifts weregiven for a particular period
of time, for a particularpurpose.
Um, I have brothers thatbelieve that those gifts
continue.
I would say two things aboutsign gifts.
Number one they would have tobe practiced biblically.
There are clear instructions inthe New Testament for how
(33:52):
tongues and interpretation oftongues are to be used within
the life of the church.
Trent (33:57):
Let's just look at tongues for just a second,
because you're mentioningtongues, because that's probably
the most popular one to talkabout.
What are just a couple of thoseinstructions that go against,
maybe, what someone might thinkabout tongues?
Sure, and I would definetongues?
Bob (34:10):
This is another issue.
Is tongues an unknown language?
Is it gibberish that somebodyneeds to enter?
I understand tongues in the NewTestament to be known languages
that you didn't know before.
I grew up in France, but all ofa sudden I'm speaking German
and I'd never been taught German.
It's a known language, aglossary, and then the
(34:35):
interpretation is somebody hasto be there to interpret.
So the instruction in thescriptures is it has to be
organized.
It has to be two, no more thanthree.
Am I getting that right?
Trent (34:45):
In a service?
Yeah, In a service.
Bob (34:47):
And anytime somebody speaks in tongues, there must be
somebody there to interpret,otherwise it's just a resounding
gong, it's just noise.
So there are rules that follow.
So the first thing I would sayis, if sign gifts are being
continued, if they're being used, they should follow what
scripture teaches on them.
The second thing I would say isall spiritual gifts are
(35:09):
designed to point people toChrist.
The Holy Spirit's role is topoint people to Christ.
Christ points people to theFather.
The Holy Spirit points peopleto Christ, and if a gift of the
Holy Spirit is drawing attentionto an individual and not
pointing them to Christ, it isnot a proper use of the
spiritual gift.
Trent (35:28):
And the spiritual gift also.
I just want to add this is notso that the one gifted gets new
revelation.
Bob (35:34):
No.
Trent (35:34):
None of the gifts are about that, so no gift is given
for new revelation, right, right, yeah, so you can be a
continuationist and thinkcanon's absolutely closed.
That's not up in the air.
Yeah, yeah, yeah and.
Bob (35:49):
I've had brothers who are cessationists in the context of
a Western culture, who haveexperienced things on the
mission field in third worldcountries, and they can't
explain it any other way thansaying that that was some kind
of spiritual gift that I havenot experienced before healing
or speaking.
And so they, they kind of I'venot experienced that I've been
to some of those situations Ihave not experienced before
(36:09):
healing or speaking, and so theykind of I've not experienced
that I've been to some of thosesituations.
I've never experienced it.
But I have some friends thathave and they say, bob, I just I
don't have a category for it inmy theological Rolodex, I just
don't.
So yeah, so it's interesting inthat regard.
Trent (36:26):
But if I can speak to that, I think I mean I don't
know this to be so.
I don't have a chapter andverse for this, Okay.
So be very careful listening towhat I have to say in the next
few sentences.
In America we have access totraining for a lot of different
languages, right, lot ofdifferent Bible societies, a lot
(36:53):
of different translation groupsare actively translating the
Bible in so many languages andtaking it out.
But in Acts, chapter 2, youdidn't have Rosetta Stone, right
?
And so God descended in aunique way upon the apostles so
that the gospel would beproclaimed in all these
different languages in a uniquemoment.
So the gospel goes out.
Right, in other parts of theworld, missionaries go.
They might encounter languagesthey have never, ever heard
(37:15):
about before nor trained in.
I mean, that might be a uniqueopportunity for the Holy Spirit
to show up in a profound way toinhibit someone to speak a new
language to the gospel shared.
So it makes sense is all I'msaying, that it could happen in
other parts of the world, uniqueto what it might happen in the
West.
Bob (37:33):
While you're talking about that, it also made me think.
While it's an opportunity forthe Holy Spirit, it's also an
opportunity for the enemy of theHoly Spirit.
I think all spiritual gifts canbe, but sign gifts can be an
opportunity for demonic uminvolvement.
That that we're we're givingcredit to the spirit when it's
(37:54):
really not the spirit movingpeople.
It might be a demon that'sdoing so, but you can say that
about all gifts.
But um, you just have to againwhere is the who's?
Who's getting the glory?
Trent (38:06):
Where's the?
Bob (38:06):
attention being pointed.
What's the purpose?
In the use of the gift at thatparticular time.
There's a lot to unpack there,but it's good stuff.
Kara (38:16):
Our church doesn't hold a particular viewpoint on this.
You align more withcessationism and Trent aligns
more with continuation.
Bob (38:24):
I'm right on the line.
We don't have an officialstated position.
Trent (38:28):
Neither does the Southern Baptist Convention, which is
helpful to know that we don't,and because I don't think you
can be.
Bob (38:37):
There's certain things, there's certain doctrine.
You can be black and white on.
This is one of those that yougo okay, this is what I think
Scripture teaches, this is whatmy experience through that says,
but you have to be open to it.
Trent (38:54):
Yeah, can I just say one more thing, not to just beat
this dead horse, but someadvocates of tongues say that
there are kind of two differentversions of tongues, including a
kind of private prayer language, even though oftentimes it's
not private and it's in aservice.
I think that might have been alittle bit of the problem.
Honestly, in 1 Corinthians 12through 14, there was some
(39:17):
gibberish you used that wordearlier, some loud gibberish,
and I would just encouragepeople struggling through is
that the case?
To go to Matthew, chapter 6, isit chapter 6 where?
Yeah, chapter six, where Jesustalks about the Lord's prayer
and one of the cautions thatJesus gives is don't be like the
Gentiles, hurling up emptyphrases, thinking that they'll
(39:39):
be heard for mindless repetition.
I would just kind of steerpeople to that direction.
Bob (39:47):
I would encourage anybody just do some research on it,
study spiritual gifts, haveconversations with your pastor,
with us, and just think throughit.
Kara (39:54):
Okay.
So, all of this being said, weknow that spiritual gifts are
used to point others closer toChrist, draw others closer to
Christ, are given to believersat salvation.
So how is an individual to finda spiritual gift that they
might have?
Trent (40:16):
So you mentioned one thing earlier.
Can I add on?
Yeah, yeah, I've got a coupleof things, but go ahead.
You mentioned what was it thatyou mentioned Passions?
Yes, thank you.
The way God's kind of wired usyeah so what are you passionate
about, right, yeah, and I thinkthat's really helpful in calling
and in gifting, right?
So, in calling man, is the Lorddrawing you to go to this place
(40:37):
?
Is the Lord calling you toserve in this sort of way?
Those are two good questionsfor two different things calling
and gifting.
Sure, I don't think the Lord isalways working against what we
want.
So, on top of passion, I thinkthe wisdom of your church and
(40:58):
church leaders, hey, I think theLord has gifted you in this way
.
Bob (41:02):
That would be my first category If I were to give
advice to somebody who said hey,pastor, I don't know what my
spiritual gift is.
How can I find it?
First, two things I'm going totalk about.
What are you passionate about?
What has God given you a heartfor and what have other people
told you?
Go to other people who arearound you, go to other
believers, and say I'm not surewhat my spiritual gift is.
What do you think it is?
(41:22):
I tell people all the timeWe've got the third way ways, a
spiritual gifts inventory,though some questions that you
can ask.
It's not a perfect tool, it'snot a.
It's just a tool that mighthelp discern these are your
gifts.
But I tell people all the timebefore you take that test, if I
spend a week or two with you, asas a believer With some
(41:47):
spiritual discernment, I think Iwould be able to say I think
God's gifted you in thisparticular area.
It's just doing life together.
Trent (41:55):
Yeah, so passion the wisdom of others, believers and
even church leaders.
The only other third category Iwould say is where is there a
need in your church?
Because if the Holy Spiritwants to use all of us for the
propagation of the gospel andthe edification of the saints in
a given church, and is there aneed in your church?
Because if the Holy Spiritwants to use all of us for the
propagation of the gospel andthe edification of the saints in
a given church, and is there aneed.
(42:17):
By his wisdom he may give you agift to serve that need in that
moment, so that your church is abetter witness and better
encouraged.
So is there a particular need?
Try it, and maybe you'll findthat is not your gift.
When we needed a lot of nurseryTry it and maybe you'll find
that is not your gift.
We needed a lot of nurseryworkers.
I'm going to hop in the nurseryand serve.
Okay, that's not my gift.
Bob (42:38):
Exactly, and some of the things you're not passionate
about probably not where yourgift.
Trent (42:42):
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
Anything else to add.
Kara (42:46):
Okay, so the final question is what are your
spiritual gifts and how did youdiscover them?
Bob (43:00):
My primary two are teaching and administration and just
discovered those through justhow I'm wired.
Number one, but just throughexperience, through practice,
through the encouragement ofothers when given opportunities
to teach the word, the feedbackfrom other people.
And the administration is justkind of how I'm wired anyway,
but um yeah.
Kara (43:18):
Is there a specific person that you can remember telling
you that you were particularlygifted in that area?
Bob (43:22):
In administration.
Uh yeah, Previous pastors whoI've told you before.
I've told you before who trustedme in those areas, um and and
and I've told you before, I'vetold you before who trusted me
in those areas and also I enjoyGod's gifted me in that area,
but it's also something I enjoybeing very meticulous about
things.
My wife would make fun of mefor these things, but everything
(43:46):
has to have an order andeverything has to have a place,
and I think God's just wired methat way.
I have other spiritual gifts,but those are the ones that tend
to come out teaching,administration and leadership.
Kara (43:59):
Do you have all of them?
Bob (44:01):
I don't have all the gifts no there are gifts I don't have,
trust me.
But to Trent's point earlier,just because you don't have a
particular spiritual gift, Idon't have the gift of mercy,
but it doesn't mean I should notbe showing mercy at all times
as a believer.
So, trent, what are your?
Trent (44:18):
gifts.
I think they are teaching andserving yeah.
Bob (44:25):
I would confirm that.
Trent (44:26):
If you were to like no, that's not it.
Where's that button?
Yeah?
Bob (44:30):
I got to find it, I haven't .
I haven.
That's not it.
Where's that button?
Trent (44:32):
Yeah, yeah yeah, I got to find it I haven't done it very
well.
Bob (44:36):
There it is, there it is.
No, I would affirm this yeah,kara, what about you?
Do you know what yours are?
Kara (44:43):
I feel like maybe I've had a conversation or two with
people in the past about it, butI can't say for sure that I
know or that I've rememberedthem in any conversations.
Trent (44:51):
What would you think?
They are Romans?
12 includes hospitality Is thatcorrect, I think hospitality is
on your list.
Hospitality Helps, hospitality.
Bob (44:57):
Yeah, I would definitely put those in.
Just being around you, how Isee you interact with people you
don't have to be the person upfront, you're content to just
see things get done from behindthe scenes, and that speaks a
lot.
To just see things get donefrom behind the scenes, and that
speaks a lot.
Trent (45:12):
To just your, your giftedness.
You think often of meeting withpeople.
You open your up your home insome sort of way, or to look for
someone's home to be open, tohave a ministry of presence.
Bob (45:21):
Yeah.
Kara (45:22):
Can I ask a bonus question ?
We're at 45 minutes, but youknow what this is going to be an
episode that people listen to.
It'll be on the website it.
You know what this is going tobe an episode that people listen
to.
It'll be on the website, it'llbe a resource.
So what all is the benefit ofreally knowing?
Because I feel like there's alot of Christians perhaps, maybe
like myself, where they just goabout their Christian life and
(45:42):
they just try their best toserve in the church and they
don't really pinpoint, maybelike this is my spiritual gift
or this isn't, but is there abenefit to really like finding
that?
Bob (45:53):
this isn't.
But is there a benefit toreally like finding that?
Um, yeah, I would say a hundredpercent there is, um, because
those that are just kind ofgoing through not really knowing
how to they're, they'reprobably dissatisfied, and
they're dissatisfied because thespirit won't let them be
satisfied, because they're notusing their gifts the way God
intends them to use them.
So I think there's greatbenefit in knowing and utilizing
your gifts, because God gavethem to you for a reason and he
(46:14):
intends for you to use them.
So I think there's benefit,both personal benefit, but also
the reason you have them is tobuild up the body of Christ.
The body of Christ is nevergoing to be what it's intended
to be if all the gifts aren'tbeing utilized in the church
being utilized in the church.
(46:34):
I used an illustration when Italked about this a few Sundays
ago where I said if my right legdecided it didn't want to
function, then all the rest ofmy body is working fine, but I'm
always having to drag my rightleg along.
Well, I'm not functioning at100% because my right leg is not
using its gifts.
And the same in the body ofChrist If there are certain
members of the body of Christwho are not using, they're not
discovering and using theirgifts, then we're not
(46:55):
functioning at the level we'resupposed to be, and so the
church won't be where it'ssupposed to be.
And I don't think theindividual believer will be at a
point where they're thriving intheir walk with Christ because
they're not utilizing everythingthat God's intended for them to
utilize.
Kara (47:13):
Good stuff.
Well, thank you guys.
Trent (47:16):
Thank you for this episode yeah.
Bob (47:18):
You had a mic Exciting Fun having Kira officially on a
microphone, that's nice.
Trent (47:23):
All right, Well, hey, should I?
Should I end with the extrathing you put on this little
system?
Kara (47:27):
I think you should All right.
Trent (47:32):
Maybe you should do a little clap first.
Oh, I pushed the wrong one.
It's such a good episode, youready?
Bob (47:38):
Yeah, bye, have a great time, that's it Thanks.
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Unsexy Church
podcast.
That was very smooth.
It was very smooth.
I think we should hear someapplause.
People are clapping in thestudio.
Actually, they're not in thestudio.
They're a part of our newlittle machine that we have for
the podcast, which is so niceit's.
Bob (00:25):
Ben and or Ben Trent and Kara have a new toy.
Trent (00:28):
Did you forget my name?
I?
Bob (00:29):
don't know, it's Wednesday afternoon.
It's weird.
Trent (00:32):
We have a new toy and our research assistant, kara,
actually has a microphone rightnow.
We're not always going to giveher a microphone, but we have
three, and so I said why don'tyou just hop on one?
So you want to test your mic?
Hello, you can actually hearher.
Bob (00:43):
You can hear her voice.
Kara is not a figment of ourimagination.
She's real.
Trent (00:48):
So if we actually well, if we address a question to her,
she can actually answer itWithout leaning all the way in,
and trying to yeah.
Yeah, they're very directionalmics.
You got to be close to them, soif you're far you can't hear.
Bob (00:59):
How are we doing?
I feel like it's been a while.
It has been a long while.
Trent (01:03):
Yeah.
Bob (01:03):
Has it not?
Trent (01:04):
Yeah, we recorded an episode.
Was it two weeks ago, in theaftermath of Hurricane.
Kara (01:10):
Helene.
Trent (01:11):
Yes, and then Hurricane Milton came, and by the grace of
God, it did not hit as strongas they projected it to.
Bob (01:18):
Not in our immediate area.
Yeah, yeah.
Trent (01:21):
Yeah, which even down south it didn't seem like it hit
as strong as they projected itto.
It kind of lessened when it gotto land, which I'm thankful for
.
Well, hey, this machine'spretty cool.
Pastor Bob, are we going tohear some?
Can you just say somethingpretty insightful?
Probably not.
Well, hold on, I didn't havethe volume up, so say that again
(01:43):
.
Probably not now.
Just say something.
Uh, you know from the bible.
Bob (01:52):
Just anything in the beginning.
God created the heavens and theearth.
There it is.
There it Like a 1970s game show.
Trent (02:06):
It's so cool though.
Yeah, this is awesome.
Hey, well, I've got a fact.
We'll just start out with oh.
Going straight to the fact ofthe day, yeah, let's do it.
Okay.
Did you know that sloths one of, if not, the slowest moving
creature in the animal universe?
(02:26):
Did you know they have to burptheir toots?
Kara (02:27):
What does that even mean?
Trent (02:29):
It means they cannot toot and it means that they have to
remove all of the gas gastro.
No, yeah, no, they cannot toot.
Bob (02:38):
It's a thing I'm not an expert in.
Trent (02:40):
Here's what I told tree sloths.
Bob (02:43):
But I have that heart.
I find that biologically hardto accept.
Trent (02:46):
Here's what it says.
Sloths are slow in everythingthey do, including digestion,
because they digest food soslowly they basically have to
breathe out their farts becausethey can't actually fart.
Can we say fart on the podcast?
Bob (02:57):
You just did twice.
I said toot the first time.
Trent (03:00):
What about poot P-O-O-T?
Bob (03:02):
You're going to have to ask the parents who let their
children listen to this podcast.
Yeah, actually don't.
You must apologize to them nowfor using such language.
Trent (03:10):
Well, the problem is, I don't let my kids say that word
and they listen to the podcast.
My wife listens to the podcast.
You're in trouble at home.
I use the phrase toot they'regoing to be laughing in the car
this, by the way.
Yes, I use the phrase to withthe duncans.
You help me come up with thisfact.
Uh, not come up with a fact,but find it, and find it for the
(03:30):
podcast.
And uh, they use the word fart.
And so I was like, all right,ah, okay, no, it's all right, so
it's a medical term.
Bob (03:37):
Um, flatulence is the medical term you know I,
regardless of the term, I findthis hard to believe.
Well, there's no way of knowingand I doubt, even with the
Duncans looking at this.
I you know they're smartchildren, but I doubt your
sources.
Trent (03:54):
Okay, well, look up and see if sloths can flatulate.
And I know flatulence istechnically the scientific term
because Nickelodeon in the early2000s had these random science
facts in between shows and theyused the term flatulence and
they said that boys and girlsflatulate somewhere between 20
(04:17):
and 25 times a day.
Bob (04:19):
Did you know?
Trent (04:19):
that that's lovely More than you would think.
Bob (04:22):
It is a lot.
Trent (04:22):
Yeah, all right, is it accurate?
Are you above or below?
Kara (04:25):
the curve According to the AI overview?
Well, ask my wife.
She'd say above According tothe AI overview on Google.
No sloths cannot fart.
Trent (04:34):
Oh well, you know what AI said it, so that's definitive.
Bob (04:39):
So they don't have stomachs .
They don't have bowels stomachs, they don't have bowels.
Trent (04:42):
They don't have intestines.
Hey, can you just say for aminute good job, trent, you're
right no, I can't, just for asecond.
Bob (04:47):
I can't say that.
Can you say it?
Trent (04:48):
I have a button I want to press.
I have a button I want to press.
Can you say good job, trent youthink you're right I'm gonna
keep hitting the buttons today,I know hey, uh, I do have a
question for you as well.
Um so, uh, I know I don't thinkyou drink a lot of soda.
I do not.
I don't drink a lot of sodaeither.
Kara, do you drink a lot ofsoda?
Kara (05:08):
Every now and again.
Trent (05:09):
Okay, so there are six sodas on the list I'm about to
give, representing the kind ofdifferent genres, if you will,
of sodas and you need to pickfour and get rid of two, keep
four, reject two.
Yep, here are the six.
Okay, barks root beer or anyroot beer for that matter, but I
think Barks is the most common.
It's the metal or silver can.
(05:30):
Is it decaf?
It is one of the only rootbeers that is not decaf.
Kara (05:35):
Mug is decaf, all should be decaf.
Bob (05:37):
Just say A&W.
We'll say A&W.
One of them is I.
I never remember which one itis.
Trent (05:41):
A&W and mug or decaf.
Barks is not, ah, okay, barksis caffeinated, okay, but I
think, okay, here's the deal.
Bob (05:47):
Just root beer.
Trent (05:49):
Barks is the best tasting root beer in a can.
A&w belongs in a frosted mug.
Bob (05:54):
Okay, you've given this a lot of thought.
Trent (05:58):
Fanta orange soda or sun-kissed, but I think Fanta's
better Pepsi Coke Mountain Dewand Dr Pepper.
I'll repeat Root beer, orangesoda, pepsi Coke Mountain Dew or
Dr Pepper.
Four stay to go.
Bob (06:18):
Dr Pepper Mountain Dew Coke Root beer.
Trent (06:23):
So you're getting rid of orange, soda and Pepsi.
Yes, okay, do you like orange?
Soda and Pepsi, yes, okay, doyou like orange soda?
I tolerate it, but Cokedefinitely beats Pepsi.
Oh, 100%, I agree.
All day, every day.
All right, kara, what's yourlist?
Kara (06:34):
My list is Coke, dr Pepper , root beer, orange soda and I'm
getting rid of Pepsi andMountain Dew.
Trent (06:41):
You're getting rid of Mountain Dew I do not like
Mountain Dew that much Really.
Do you like a Baja Blast?
Kara (06:47):
I like it enough, yeah.
I gave the one the other day toJordan.
Trent (06:52):
Well, you gave it to him like three hours after he'd been
sitting.
Kara (06:54):
He did like it, though he was like yay, I don't like Baja
Blast.
Trent (06:58):
Do you like any of the Mountain Dew flavors?
Pastor Bob, Like the extraflavors I can't drink any of
them.
Bob (07:02):
I was going off.
You can drink Diet Mountain Dew, can't you?
Trent (07:05):
No.
Bob (07:06):
It's just all the caffeine.
Trent (07:07):
Yeah, it's the caffeine Is there a non-caffeinated
Mountain Dew?
Bob (07:11):
Defeat the purpose of Mountain Dew, wouldn't it?
Yeah, probably so.
Trent (07:14):
Yeah, okay, I would get rid of Pepsi as well.
Bob (07:24):
Do you know which city Dr Pepper was formulated in?
Trent (07:28):
No, and it's weird that you do.
It's not weird that I do.
Once you know what city it is.
Is it Tampa?
It is not.
Where is it at?
Bob (07:33):
Waco Texas.
Trent (07:34):
Really.
Yes, there's a.
Bob (07:36):
Dr Pepper museum right there in Waco.
Trent (07:39):
Dr Pepper.
Is it owned by PepsiCo or byCoca-Cola?
Bob (07:43):
I'm sure it probably is, I don't know.
Yeah, I honestly don't know.
Trent (07:46):
Yeah, I think Mountain Dew was its own brand for a
while and now I think it'sPepsiCo.
I think that's correct, but Ithink Dr Pepper may still be its
own, because I think placesthat have Coke and places that
have Pepsi have both.
Bob (07:57):
Can I ask why Sprite was not on the list?
We could have put SpriteSprite's not caffeinated.
Is Sprite one of your favorites?
No, but it's one that I canstill drink, so if I have a soda
now, it would be a Sprite.
Trent (08:11):
Yeah, I like Sprite.
If I'm drinking something inthe evening, like if I have a
late meal, I don't want caffeine.
It's not too sweet, but it'salmost just like carbonated
water.
There's just a little bit ofsugar in it and just a tiny bit
of flavor.
It's significantly better thanlike a La Croix or something
(08:33):
like that that has a drop ofsome kind of flavor in it, but
it's just okay.
Are you a Sprite fan, kara?
Kara (08:42):
Sprite's all right.
It's refreshing, it's okay.
Trent (08:44):
Do you know Sprite fan?
Kara, sprite's all right, it'srefreshing, it's okay.
Do you know the story behind?
So, like Sierra Mist is notSierra Mist anymore.
Do you know the story?
Kara (08:52):
Oh, it's like Starry, it's Starry.
Have you seen that around?
Trent (08:55):
Starry.
So you got a Taco Bell.
It's Starry.
Now it's not Sierra Mist, right, because they had the, which
had Sierra Mist, and not Sprite,co-cast Sprite.
But Sierra Mist with a C,c-i-e-r-a, m-i-s-t.
Is a girl who got the rightswhen the rights of the name
(09:21):
Sierra Mist.
Like, I guess they have torenew for the rights of the
names here.
I missed Like, like I guessthey have to renew for the
rights of the name and shestepped in and grabbed it from
them.
That's so funny and so she's nowbecome popular, like on
Instagram or Tik TOK orsomething like that.
But but yeah, so she has therights to the name.
Kara (09:38):
So her name isn't even spelled the same way that it,
you know, I don't.
Trent (09:41):
I don't know all the details, but, yeah, her name is
not spelled the same way, so Idon't know if she just tried to
act like actually grab it too,because it sounds this.
I'm not sure, but you cangoogle it there's no way to know
no way to know, no way to findout.
Bob (09:53):
We have caron a mic now oh, so that supersedes all other
okay maybe we can I, you knowokay research assistant.
Trent (10:01):
You know, Okay.
Kara (10:02):
Research assistant.
Is it Sierra Mist?
Like spelled like that.
Trent (10:05):
Yeah, I guess there's two R's C-I-E-R-R-A, so the S is
the only difference and she,like sued for the rights or got
the rights in a lapse oftrademark or something.
Is that true?
Kara (10:21):
Okay, I'm only seeing some random Reddit pages.
Yeah, Reddit's pretty sketchy Idon't see anything that seems
valid at the moment.
Trent (10:31):
Look at Sierra Miss, look up her name and then look up
Starry S-T-R-R-Y.
Here's two R's and then, if wehad like a da-na-na on this, I'd
be playing it right now.
You're just promoting urbanmyths.
Hey, while we wait, Bob, canyou just check your mic?
Your mic's not sounding rightfor some reason.
(10:52):
Can you check it?
What am I going to sound like?
Kara (10:54):
now.
Trent (10:56):
We can change the way his voice sounds, any shot.
Kara (11:01):
There's a random website called Sporked.
Trent (11:04):
Oh, it definitely sounds like a legitimate website.
What does it say?
What's the headline?
Kara (11:11):
What happened to Sierra Mist?
Trent (11:12):
Okay, give us a synopsis.
Just scan it really fast.
Kara (11:17):
PepsiCo never quite knew what to do with the brand.
It rebranded as Mist Twist.
What?
Briefly?
In 2015, for some reason,apparently.
I do not remember that.
Why is it Starry?
Trent (11:32):
It does not seem like it is confirming what I said.
No, it does not.
Bob (11:36):
But I am pretty sure it is accurate.
You might do your researchbefore you throw this stuff out
there.
Kara (11:39):
I am pretty sure it is accurate.
It is not saying anything aboutthis chick.
Bob (11:43):
Our audience is fascinated by this right now.
Trent (11:45):
All right.
Hey, so today we are, you knowfacts are facts.
Okay, so today we're going totalk about spiritual gifts.
Pastor Bob Talking about whatSpiritual gifts?
Spiritual gifts.
Bob (12:03):
I like gifts.
Gifts are nice.
Trent (12:04):
They are.
Kara (12:04):
What about spiritual ones?
Spiritual gifts, spiritualgifts I like gifts.
Gifts are nice, they are.
What about spiritual ones?
Bob (12:06):
Spiritual even better.
Kara (12:07):
Yeah.
Bob (12:08):
They last longer.
Trent (12:09):
Can you remember like a gift that you were given back in
like middle school or highschool for Christmas that you
were like this just wasincredible, like surely, like
one time you went, you guys gavegifts under the tree growing up
, sure, okay, yeah, uh and uh,was there ever a gift that were
like?
That was just like lifealtering for them, for at least
(12:31):
for that day it's like, oh man,my life's never been the same.
I've got a new bike or I've gotah, it's so cool.
Bob (12:38):
You remember middle school or high school, I don't remember
my parents always gave greatgifts, but I don't remember any
life-altering gifts in highschool.
But younger From the mind ofthe age you ever heard of
electronic football.
Trent (12:51):
Not the little game.
Bob (12:52):
Oh, no, like vibrating, vibrating, the feel.
You put the little guys onthere and they had a felt
football and they vibrated downthe view and set them up.
Oh yeah, loved that game.
Yeah, that's cool, that waslife-altering.
Yes, that's awesome.
Trent (13:07):
There was a year where I got both a bike and a snowboard.
Now when we say snowboard, thatsounds like they went over the
top, but it was like one thatyou got A couple two-by-fours.
It was one you slipped yourfeet into but it didn't snap,
that kind of thing.
But I just thought it was coolsaying I can ride a bike when
there's no snow and when there'ssnow I can actually get on my
(13:28):
snowboard and I can ride asnowboard.
I can get around everywhere.
How awesome is this going to be?
I used that snowboard for anumber of years.
Actually, we tied one of thoseratchet straps.
We used one of the ratchetstraps and held one end of it.
We pulled off the crank and weheld one of it on the back of a
friend's truck and rodesnowboard behind the truck.
It was so much fun.
It's hard to do.
(13:49):
Here in Tampa In college I useda penny board.
You know what a penny board is?
No.
So a penny board is like aredesign, a new brand that
brought back kind of theskateboards of, like, I think,
the 70s.
Kara (14:04):
I have no idea.
Do you know what a penny boardis?
Yeah, I know what a penny boardis.
Yeah, I just don't know when.
Trent (14:07):
Yeah, I think it's like the seventies.
So it's like the wider wheels,the smaller skateboard that's
hard plastic and kind of shapedalmost like a surfboard, and the
penny one's the smaller andthey make a nickel which is a
little bigger but your barelyfit on it and, um, during finals
week my senior year of college,uh, we tried to see how fast a
car could go hanging on to it.
So is that 70s ish?
(14:28):
That's the board of mychildhood.
Yeah, yeah, early 80s, 70s,something like that.
Yeah, um, so yeah, we try toget as fast as we could behind
or the car as fast as we could.
Bob (14:38):
It sounds like a great idea .
Can you guess how fast we?
Trent (14:42):
got 35.
33.
Bob (14:44):
Yeah, 33 was the number 33.
Trent (14:46):
It was so cool and we took it on the road.
So we mostly went on almostlike the cement kind of roads on
the campus, which were a lotsmoother, and then we took it to
the road and it was a lot morewobbly with the asphalt.
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
It was pretty fun.
It's a great story.
Yeah, it's pretty fun.
It's a great story.
Yeah, spiritual gifts,spiritual gifts.
So I think this episode'sactually going to be on our
website.
We're doing a website redesignand kara said why don't you guys
(15:07):
talk about spiritual gifts sothat we can put it on a page
dedicated to spiritual gifts?
Bob (15:12):
okay, so they're gonna have to listen, so we have to be
serious about this.
Trent (15:14):
Well, they're gonna have to listen to a number of things
beforehand and they're gonnaknow we're not super serious so
um.
So, kara, what do you want?
To ask the questions Do youwant?
How do you want this to work?
Kara (15:23):
I would love to ask the questions.
Trent (15:24):
Okay, and if we're not clear, ask further.
Kara (15:28):
I shall.
Okay.
Are you ready for the first one?
Yep.
Trent (15:30):
Do I need some noise before you ask it?
Kara (15:32):
I mean if, if, if you would like.
Trent (15:35):
I don't, I don't know which one let's do.
Uh no, I don't really have.
You're having too much fun withthis, hey karen, hey karen can
you?
Kara (15:48):
can you hurry up and ask the question here, can you?
Uh, okay, so so what arespiritual gifts?
What are spiritual gifts?
Gifts that are spiritual, giftsthat are spiritual yes, I feel
like people throw it around alot like what's your spiritual
gift?
This is mine, I don't, and Iit's hard to know.
You know, like, what are youtalking about?
Bob (16:04):
Okay, so do you want like a definition?
Or do you want?
Okay, All right.
So I will answer the questionin two ways.
I'll give you a definition ofspiritual gifts and also answer
by saying what spiritual giftsare not.
So, let's start with whatspiritual gifts are not the
spirit right?
Trent (16:24):
So Galatians 5, love, joy peace, patience, kindness
that's not what we're talkingabout when we're talking about
spiritual gifts.
So we don't have to wait to begiven something from the Holy
Spirit to be more loving,correct.
We already have that.
Bob (16:32):
It should be the overflow of.
God in our lives.
Spiritual gifts are also notnatural talents.
They're not the ability to runfast or to sing or those kinds
of things.
Trent (16:41):
But God could give you a talent at a young age.
Bob (16:44):
That matures in you, sure, but it's not by definition a
spiritual gift.
Trent (16:49):
So God may have made Michael Jordan a really good
jumper.
Yes, but, not necessarily agift spiritual gift.
Bob (16:57):
Right, okay, okay.
So a spiritual gift is anoutpouring of the Holy Spirit in
a believer's life that equipsthem and enables them to do
works of service for thebuilding up of the body of
Christ.
That's how I would define aspiritual gift.
It's an outpouring of the HolySpirit.
It's not something we do.
It is something that God givesus through the Holy Spirit, I
(17:19):
believe, at the time ofsalvation, when we've trusted in
him and the Holy Spiritindwells us.
It's an outpouring of the HolySpirit that enables us to do
what God's called us to do, torepresent him, and it's used to
build up the body of Christ.
So you don't have it foryourself.
You use it within the body ofChrist to help each other, to
build each other up.
Trent (17:38):
So not used for someone's personal platform necessarily
of propagating the gospel,someone's personal platform
necessarily of propagating thegospel, but for the edification
of others, whether it be gospelfurtherance or church
edification, edifying the body,serving the body.
Bob (17:52):
And all believers have at least one.
We probably have more than one,but we have at least one.
So everybody is gifted.
The Greek words that are usedto define this are words
charismata, which is where weget the word charismatic, or
charisma, which is just grace,gift, a gift of grace.
(18:14):
So it's not something we have,it's something God graces to us
gives us, specifically,believers Correct For the
edification of the church.
Now they can be developed, theycan be matured, you can grow in
them and we should all, oncewe've identified them, we should
grow in them and utilize them.
Kara (18:35):
Could you give me some examples of some spiritual gifts
?
Bob (18:38):
Sure, I could give you a couple lists of spiritual gifts.
Specifically, I would pointeverybody to Romans chapter 12
and 1 Corinthians, chapter 12,which are the two passages that
tend to list spiritualgiftedness.
So there are lots of them.
Teaching administration helpsevangelism service helps
(19:01):
evangelism service encouragementdiscernment, prophecy, wisdom,
prophecy, wisdom, faith.
Trent (19:09):
And that's not initial faith of believing in Christ,
that's faith in.
God.
Trust in God.
Bob (19:15):
Speaking in tongues.
Interpretation of tongues.
Trent (19:20):
Seeing anything else, healing, healing is one.
Did you say discernment?
Bob (19:25):
I did, I think I did.
Trent (19:26):
Okay, mercy, yeah, leadership, leadership,
hospitality or giving.
Bob (19:33):
So those are.
Those are what are listed inRomans 12 and first Corinthians
12.
Trent (19:38):
And, to be clear, there's a few of those like serving.
If you don't have necessarilythe gift of serving, that
doesn't exclude you from havingto serve right, or if you don't
have the gift of teaching, thatdoesn't mean that you take
opportunities to teach a fellowbrother or sister in Christ,
making disciples, maturing theminto.
Bob (19:52):
Yeah, Evangelism.
We're all called to evangelism.
Not all of us have thespiritual gift of evangelism.
It doesn't excuse us fromevangelizing, but there are
certain people that are justgifted in that area and it's a
gift that comes from God.
Trent (20:07):
Now I think we've probably answered some questions
on this list already.
Just to look at both of thosepassages 1 Corinthians 12 and
Romans 12.
In 1 Corinthians 12, there area number of issues in the church
at Corinth, and yet God hadbeen gracious to these people
who had disobeyed him in manyways, by giving them gifts to
serve one another really well.
(20:28):
There was relationship problemswithin that body and these
gifts were to enable them toserve one another spiritually,
not just fleshly.
And so he lists the gifts in 1Corinthians 12.
He says these are given byGod's spirit.
It means you don't get tochoose which one you think
(20:48):
you're better at.
Naturally, it doesn't mean youget to pick one if you like one
better than the other.
In fact, that probably is thebackground to why he wrote 1
Corinthians 12, 13, and 14.
There were different people that, it seems, wanted very visible,
verbal gifts.
And so in 1 Corinthians 12, hesays well, the spirit gives
(21:11):
these and therefore the mutualedification of one another, and
you're to use these gifts, kindof like different parts of a
body.
Just as the hand serves therest of the body or the head
serves the rest of the body andworks in conjunction with you
are to work in conjunction withone another.
Some of you like a hand, someof you like a foot, some of you
like a nose, some of you likeears discerning, and then goes
(21:34):
on to say but if you don't usethese gifts in love, what are
you guys doing?
She's looking at my notes.
But if you don't use thesegifts in love, they're worthless
.
Love should motivate the gifts.
He says you could speak in thetongues of men and angels, which
I don't think is an actuallanguage.
I think you could speak in thetongues of men and angels, but
(21:56):
if you don't have love, usingthese gifts means nothing.
Kara (21:59):
It means absolutely nothing.
Trent (22:01):
So that's 1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter.
You're to use these gifts, notbeing rude but being patient,
putting one another aboveyourself.
And then in 1 Corinthians 14,he says seek out the gifts that
edify others.
Romans 12, in the context ofthat passage where it lifts the
(22:26):
gifts, it begins by saying giveyourselves as a living sacrifice
, meaning lay your life down atthe altar and then serve others.
Well, so in both cases, when wethink about the gifts, we think
about how can I lay down mydesires and serve someone else?
Bob (22:34):
Yeah, as you're saying, 1 Corinthians is written and it
appears that the church ishaving issues of being jealous
of one another's gifts ordesiring a different gift
because they've sensed that onewas greater than another.
So there's arguing going on andPaul's addressing that, and
then first Corinthians 13, ofcourse, is the context of love
(22:57):
you know, it doesn't matter whatgift you have If you don't use
it in love.
you could say the same thingabout Romans, romans 13,.
All about love.
So both contexts where he'stalking about these gifts that
God has given us to edify oneanother, build each other up.
It's not to draw attention toyourself, it's to help your
brother and sister, and to do soin love.
Trent (23:15):
So the spirit gives and enables spiritual service.
But love has to be themotivator.
But love has to be themotivator.
In 1 Corinthians 14, kind ofthe conclusion of the spiritual
gift section in 1 Corinthians,it seems as though what are
known as the sign gifts, whichwe can talk about more later.
But the sign gifts are thegifts that people desired
(23:39):
because they were very visible,flashy.
They were very visible, right.
So this guy can speak in adifferent language.
I want that because that's veryclear, it's a spiritual gift,
because he couldn't speak thatlanguage before.
But I've got the gift ofservice and we're all called to
that.
So, man, I want that gift sopeople can see me as spiritual
(24:01):
and if we're using the gifts tobe seen there, I mean, that's
the.
That's the fundamental problem,right?
Um, gifts are not for apersonal platform, they're for
mutual service.
Yeah, cool.
Kara (24:14):
So so it seems like we've talked about how gifts are
intended for the benefit of thechurch community as a whole, um,
and we receive these gifts forone another to be used for one
another, um, but I am curious,kind of like where?
Just cause I don't really havea really good grasp on this
topic, I guess as a whole, butI'm curious, like, if we're all
(24:35):
called to service, like what,and we receive the gift, uh,
like our spiritual gifts, at themoment when we come to
salvation, like I don't knowsomeone might be I'm thinking
someone might be really good atteaching their whole lives.
Then they come to salvation inthe Lord.
Is it possible that thatteaching might not be their
spiritual gift or that it wouldbe?
(24:56):
I feel like someone from theoutside might see oh, surely
their spiritual gift is teachingor evangelism or something
similar.
Bob (25:03):
Yeah, so I think God can take certain abilities and use
those or magnify them.
Teaching isn't just randomteaching.
It's not teaching anything.
It's specifically teaching theword of God so that people can
understand it.
So you can be a great teacherand not be able to teach the
word of God, so that people canunderstand it.
So just because you're a goodteacher doesn't necessarily mean
(25:25):
your spiritual giftedness isgoing to be teaching.
Kara (25:28):
It may.
Bob (25:29):
It may very well, god may take those things and use them
and then just reapply them tohis word, but it is something
that is unique that you did nothave prior to salvation that
comes and God uses it.
It's interesting that the listsaren't identical Romans 12 and
1 Corinthians 12,.
They're not identical lists andyou would think, why not?
Trent (25:51):
Why aren't they?
Bob (25:52):
identical.
One reason why they're notidentical is because God knew
what the church in Rome needed,and God knew what the church in
Corinth needed, and so eachperson that comes to the church
is gifted uniquely for the needsof that church.
So even here at First Baptist,every person that's a member of
our church is uniquely gifted byGod, and he's brought them here
(26:13):
to this place at this time touse those gifts together.
The analogy Trent mentionedbefore is the body.
We all need hands, we needfingers, we need eyes, we need
heads, we need feet, and Godputs all those things together.
And what the church in Romeneeded was something different,
necessarily, than what thechurch in Corinth needed, and so
they're unique that way.
Trent (26:34):
And so potentially they're not comprehensive lists.
There might be other giftsthere might be.
Bob (26:38):
Right.
Trent (26:39):
That God might give a church at a time and a place.
But I think all of this, like itmatters for us to have a big
view of the local church Right,because that's what your gifts
are given for.
It matters for us to have a bigview of the local church right,
because that's what your giftsare given for and why they're
given and their context for yourspiritual gifts.
So a person may have theability to teach, but the Holy
(27:02):
Spirit might discern that thatchurch body has a lot of
teachers, and so, instead ofgiving this body more mouths, it
says man, I need to gift thischurch so that it has more hands
or more feet.
And so your gift is determinedand given to you by God's Spirit
.
It's 1 Corinthians 12, chapter12, verse 7.
(27:25):
The Holy Spirit delivers ordecides who gets what gift,
because the Holy Spirit knowswhat a particular church, like
you said, needs and what itdoesn't need at the time, and
that may change over time.
People might move, might besent out on mission, and so it
needs another person with thisgift or that gift.
Bob (27:44):
I would also add to this conversation, to your question.
I think God will take some ofthe things that we are
passionate about and gift us inthose areas.
So if you're trying to discernwhat your giftedness is as a
believer, there are tools we canuse.
I think we'll talk about thoselater on, but the first thing I
would start saying is what's onyour heart all the time.
Trent (28:03):
What do you think about all the time?
Bob (28:04):
What is God putting continually before you?
And that's what I would say.
God's leaning you thatdirection.
Um so, if your passion is in umteaching or your passion is in
um discipling or it's kind ofit's, it's just helping, you
don't want to be out front, youjust want to be behind the scene
, but you, every time you seesomebody that's hurting, your
heart hurts.
Those are the ways you canstart to discern.
(28:26):
Okay, this is kind of way thatGod's gifting me.
Is that helpful?
Kara (28:31):
Yeah, very helpful, very helpful.
I want to kind of touch on the,I don't know.
When you read off the list, theones that stuck out to me were
like prophecy, healing, speakingin tongues and I think in
Christian circles those are theones that get a lot of focus.
I mean, yeah, those are theones that get a lot of focus
Because they're very different.
Yeah, they're very differentand they are kind of more flashy
(28:53):
, I guess.
Trent (28:54):
They're clearly supernatural.
Yeah, clearly supernatural.
The others aren't supernatural,but they're clearly
supernatural.
Kara (29:03):
Yeah.
So what is it about thesespiritual gifts that I don't
know?
Why are we talking about themso much as opposed to other ones
, and what does our churchbelieve about these spiritual
gifts?
Bob (29:12):
Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there.
It's a great question.
But no, it's a good question,there's a lot to unpack.
Let's start by saying this youdidn't have this on the list of
questions.
Trent (29:21):
I didn't, but I was curious and I know that people
want to know, and then we canwrap it up.
Bob (29:25):
Inquiring minds want to know, so broadly speaking, folks
generally categorize thespiritual gifts into three
categories.
So there's the speaking gifts,the service gifts and then sign
gifts right.
Other people categorize themdifferent ways, but that's
generally speaking.
Trent (29:42):
And that categorization is people understanding what's
in Scripture?
It's not necessarily from theScripture Right, they're not in
categories, exactly, that's justus trying to's not necessarily
from the scripture Right,they're not they're not in
categories Exactly.
Bob (29:50):
That's just us trying to kind of systematize the
giftedness.
Kind of like one does the oldTestament law Correct Right.
So speaking gifts would be likeprophecy, teaching, uh, wisdom,
knowledge, evangelism.
And then service would beministry giving, um
(30:11):
administration, administration,faith, mercy, discernment.
And then the sign gifts whichare listed are ability to
perform some form of a miracle,like healing somebody or healing
itself, being one speaking intongues, and then interpretation
of tongues.
There are two schools ofthought on sign gifts, and Trent
helped me with this.
One is known as continuationism, which says that these gifts
(30:35):
are still active within the bodyof Christ today.
Trent (30:39):
They have continued from the early church.
Bob (30:41):
Right, so that there are still people that God, through
the Holy Spirit, uses to healpeople, there are still people
who speak in tongues that theydid not know previously, and
there are still people who caninterpret tongues that they
didn't know in other ways.
That's continuationism.
There's another school ofthought called cessationism,
which says that those particulargifts were given during a
(31:03):
particular period of time,particularly the apostolic age,
when the apostles were sent outprior to the word of God being
written and canonized anddistributed, and those gifts
were used to verify theircalling and verify their message
.
And so those gifts were used atthat time so that people would
(31:26):
say, well, I don't know if I canbelieve this guy or not, but I
just watched him heal people.
I don't know if this message isright, but there's this gift of
tongue and he's justinterpreted it, so they would
use that to verify the message.
But because we have the word ofGod now, because it is canonized
, because we have the completerevelation of God in Jesus
(31:46):
Christ, there's no need forthose anymore.
And so the cessationist campwould say, no, those were for
that particular period of time,they do not continue now.
There's some that are hard inthe continuationist camp and
some that are hard in thecessationist camp, and then
there's others that are kind ofin the middle going well.
I'm in this camp, but I'm opento the idea that maybe they do
(32:09):
continue in certain settings.
Trent, you have anything to addto that?
Trent (32:12):
The Pentecostal church would be a continuationist
movement.
The Presbyterian church wouldbe a cessationist movement.
Baptist in the middle, on thistopic, there might be some that
are a little morecontinuationist, but not maybe
embracing everything that thePentecostals do.
There'll be some that are morecessationist, and so even in a
(32:33):
given church, even in leadership, there might be slight nuance
to what someone holds on to here, and I want to be fair to both
sides.
Not every continuationistbelieves everything.
Every other continuationistbelieves.
So one might think, well, thegifts of speaking in tongues
(32:57):
should not be in any way otherthan what the Bible describes.
It should not just be random ina service.
There shouldn't be slaying theSpirit.
That's not even a gift anyways.
So not every continuationist isthe same same and not every
cessationist are the samecessationists.
While they, uh, agree thathealing is no longer a gift
(33:19):
given to individuals, they stillbelieve that God can heal an
individual, of course,supernaturally, at any moment he
wants to, um and any servicethat he wants to.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Bob (33:31):
I fall in the cessationist camp.
I believe that those gifts weregiven for a particular period
of time, for a particularpurpose.
Um, I have brothers thatbelieve that those gifts
continue.
I would say two things aboutsign gifts.
Number one they would have tobe practiced biblically.
There are clear instructions inthe New Testament for how
(33:52):
tongues and interpretation oftongues are to be used within
the life of the church.
Trent (33:57):
Let's just look at tongues for just a second,
because you're mentioningtongues, because that's probably
the most popular one to talkabout.
What are just a couple of thoseinstructions that go against,
maybe, what someone might thinkabout tongues?
Sure, and I would definetongues?
Bob (34:10):
This is another issue.
Is tongues an unknown language?
Is it gibberish that somebodyneeds to enter?
I understand tongues in the NewTestament to be known languages
that you didn't know before.
I grew up in France, but all ofa sudden I'm speaking German
and I'd never been taught German.
It's a known language, aglossary, and then the
(34:35):
interpretation is somebody hasto be there to interpret.
So the instruction in thescriptures is it has to be
organized.
It has to be two, no more thanthree.
Am I getting that right?
Trent (34:45):
In a service?
Yeah, In a service.
Bob (34:47):
And anytime somebody speaks in tongues, there must be
somebody there to interpret,otherwise it's just a resounding
gong, it's just noise.
So there are rules that follow.
So the first thing I would sayis, if sign gifts are being
continued, if they're being used, they should follow what
scripture teaches on them.
The second thing I would say isall spiritual gifts are
(35:09):
designed to point people toChrist.
The Holy Spirit's role is topoint people to Christ.
Christ points people to theFather.
The Holy Spirit points peopleto Christ, and if a gift of the
Holy Spirit is drawing attentionto an individual and not
pointing them to Christ, it isnot a proper use of the
spiritual gift.
Trent (35:28):
And the spiritual gift also.
I just want to add this is notso that the one gifted gets new
revelation.
Bob (35:34):
No.
Trent (35:34):
None of the gifts are about that, so no gift is given
for new revelation, right, right, yeah, so you can be a
continuationist and thinkcanon's absolutely closed.
That's not up in the air.
Yeah, yeah, yeah and.
Bob (35:49):
I've had brothers who are cessationists in the context of
a Western culture, who haveexperienced things on the
mission field in third worldcountries, and they can't
explain it any other way thansaying that that was some kind
of spiritual gift that I havenot experienced before healing
or speaking.
And so they, they kind of I'venot experienced that I've been
to some of those situations Ihave not experienced before
(36:09):
healing or speaking, and so theykind of I've not experienced
that I've been to some of thosesituations.
I've never experienced it.
But I have some friends thathave and they say, bob, I just I
don't have a category for it inmy theological Rolodex, I just
don't.
So yeah, so it's interesting inthat regard.
Trent (36:26):
But if I can speak to that, I think I mean I don't
know this to be so.
I don't have a chapter andverse for this, Okay.
So be very careful listening towhat I have to say in the next
few sentences.
In America we have access totraining for a lot of different
languages, right, lot ofdifferent Bible societies, a lot
(36:53):
of different translation groupsare actively translating the
Bible in so many languages andtaking it out.
But in Acts, chapter 2, youdidn't have Rosetta Stone, right
?
And so God descended in aunique way upon the apostles so
that the gospel would beproclaimed in all these
different languages in a uniquemoment.
So the gospel goes out.
Right, in other parts of theworld, missionaries go.
They might encounter languagesthey have never, ever heard
(37:15):
about before nor trained in.
I mean, that might be a uniqueopportunity for the Holy Spirit
to show up in a profound way toinhibit someone to speak a new
language to the gospel shared.
So it makes sense is all I'msaying, that it could happen in
other parts of the world, uniqueto what it might happen in the
West.
Bob (37:33):
While you're talking about that, it also made me think.
While it's an opportunity forthe Holy Spirit, it's also an
opportunity for the enemy of theHoly Spirit.
I think all spiritual gifts canbe, but sign gifts can be an
opportunity for demonic uminvolvement.
That that we're we're givingcredit to the spirit when it's
(37:54):
really not the spirit movingpeople.
It might be a demon that'sdoing so, but you can say that
about all gifts.
But um, you just have to againwhere is the who's?
Who's getting the glory?
Trent (38:06):
Where's the?
Bob (38:06):
attention being pointed.
What's the purpose?
In the use of the gift at thatparticular time.
There's a lot to unpack there,but it's good stuff.
Kara (38:16):
Our church doesn't hold a particular viewpoint on this.
You align more withcessationism and Trent aligns
more with continuation.
Bob (38:24):
I'm right on the line.
We don't have an officialstated position.
Trent (38:28):
Neither does the Southern Baptist Convention, which is
helpful to know that we don't,and because I don't think you
can be.
Bob (38:37):
There's certain things, there's certain doctrine.
You can be black and white on.
This is one of those that yougo okay, this is what I think
Scripture teaches, this is whatmy experience through that says,
but you have to be open to it.
Trent (38:54):
Yeah, can I just say one more thing, not to just beat
this dead horse, but someadvocates of tongues say that
there are kind of two differentversions of tongues, including a
kind of private prayer language, even though oftentimes it's
not private and it's in aservice.
I think that might have been alittle bit of the problem.
Honestly, in 1 Corinthians 12through 14, there was some
(39:17):
gibberish you used that wordearlier, some loud gibberish,
and I would just encouragepeople struggling through is
that the case?
To go to Matthew, chapter 6, isit chapter 6 where?
Yeah, chapter six, where Jesustalks about the Lord's prayer
and one of the cautions thatJesus gives is don't be like the
Gentiles, hurling up emptyphrases, thinking that they'll
(39:39):
be heard for mindless repetition.
I would just kind of steerpeople to that direction.
Bob (39:47):
I would encourage anybody just do some research on it,
study spiritual gifts, haveconversations with your pastor,
with us, and just think throughit.
Kara (39:54):
Okay.
So, all of this being said, weknow that spiritual gifts are
used to point others closer toChrist, draw others closer to
Christ, are given to believersat salvation.
So how is an individual to finda spiritual gift that they
might have?
Trent (40:16):
So you mentioned one thing earlier.
Can I add on?
Yeah, yeah, I've got a coupleof things, but go ahead.
You mentioned what was it thatyou mentioned Passions?
Yes, thank you.
The way God's kind of wired usyeah so what are you passionate
about, right, yeah, and I thinkthat's really helpful in calling
and in gifting, right?
So, in calling man, is the Lorddrawing you to go to this place
(40:37):
?
Is the Lord calling you toserve in this sort of way?
Those are two good questionsfor two different things calling
and gifting.
Sure, I don't think the Lord isalways working against what we
want.
So, on top of passion, I thinkthe wisdom of your church and
(40:58):
church leaders, hey, I think theLord has gifted you in this way
.
Bob (41:02):
That would be my first category If I were to give
advice to somebody who said hey,pastor, I don't know what my
spiritual gift is.
How can I find it?
First, two things I'm going totalk about.
What are you passionate about?
What has God given you a heartfor and what have other people
told you?
Go to other people who arearound you, go to other
believers, and say I'm not surewhat my spiritual gift is.
What do you think it is?
(41:22):
I tell people all the timeWe've got the third way ways, a
spiritual gifts inventory,though some questions that you
can ask.
It's not a perfect tool, it'snot a.
It's just a tool that mighthelp discern these are your
gifts.
But I tell people all the timebefore you take that test, if I
spend a week or two with you, asas a believer With some
(41:47):
spiritual discernment, I think Iwould be able to say I think
God's gifted you in thisparticular area.
It's just doing life together.
Trent (41:55):
Yeah, so passion the wisdom of others, believers and
even church leaders.
The only other third category Iwould say is where is there a
need in your church?
Because if the Holy Spiritwants to use all of us for the
propagation of the gospel andthe edification of the saints in
a given church, and is there aneed in your church?
Because if the Holy Spiritwants to use all of us for the
propagation of the gospel andthe edification of the saints in
a given church, and is there aneed.
(42:17):
By his wisdom he may give you agift to serve that need in that
moment, so that your church is abetter witness and better
encouraged.
So is there a particular need?
Try it, and maybe you'll findthat is not your gift.
When we needed a lot of nurseryTry it and maybe you'll find
that is not your gift.
We needed a lot of nurseryworkers.
I'm going to hop in the nurseryand serve.
Okay, that's not my gift.
Bob (42:38):
Exactly, and some of the things you're not passionate
about probably not where yourgift.
Trent (42:42):
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
Anything else to add.
Kara (42:46):
Okay, so the final question is what are your
spiritual gifts and how did youdiscover them?
Bob (43:00):
My primary two are teaching and administration and just
discovered those through justhow I'm wired.
Number one, but just throughexperience, through practice,
through the encouragement ofothers when given opportunities
to teach the word, the feedbackfrom other people.
And the administration is justkind of how I'm wired anyway,
but um yeah.
Kara (43:18):
Is there a specific person that you can remember telling
you that you were particularlygifted in that area?
Bob (43:22):
In administration.
Uh yeah, Previous pastors whoI've told you before.
I've told you before who trustedme in those areas, um and and
and I've told you before, I'vetold you before who trusted me
in those areas and also I enjoyGod's gifted me in that area,
but it's also something I enjoybeing very meticulous about
things.
My wife would make fun of mefor these things, but everything
(43:46):
has to have an order andeverything has to have a place,
and I think God's just wired methat way.
I have other spiritual gifts,but those are the ones that tend
to come out teaching,administration and leadership.
Kara (43:59):
Do you have all of them?
Bob (44:01):
I don't have all the gifts no there are gifts I don't have,
trust me.
But to Trent's point earlier,just because you don't have a
particular spiritual gift, Idon't have the gift of mercy,
but it doesn't mean I should notbe showing mercy at all times
as a believer.
So, trent, what are your?
Trent (44:18):
gifts.
I think they are teaching andserving yeah.
Bob (44:25):
I would confirm that.
Trent (44:26):
If you were to like no, that's not it.
Where's that button?
Yeah?
Bob (44:30):
I got to find it, I haven't .
I haven.
That's not it.
Where's that button?
Trent (44:32):
Yeah, yeah yeah, I got to find it I haven't done it very
well.
Bob (44:36):
There it is, there it is.
No, I would affirm this yeah,kara, what about you?
Do you know what yours are?
Kara (44:43):
I feel like maybe I've had a conversation or two with
people in the past about it, butI can't say for sure that I
know or that I've rememberedthem in any conversations.
Trent (44:51):
What would you think?
They are Romans?
12 includes hospitality Is thatcorrect, I think hospitality is
on your list.
Hospitality Helps, hospitality.
Bob (44:57):
Yeah, I would definitely put those in.
Just being around you, how Isee you interact with people you
don't have to be the person upfront, you're content to just
see things get done from behindthe scenes, and that speaks a
lot.
To just see things get donefrom behind the scenes, and that
speaks a lot.
Trent (45:12):
To just your, your giftedness.
You think often of meeting withpeople.
You open your up your home insome sort of way, or to look for
someone's home to be open, tohave a ministry of presence.
Bob (45:21):
Yeah.
Kara (45:22):
Can I ask a bonus question ?
We're at 45 minutes, but youknow what this is going to be an
episode that people listen to.
It'll be on the website it.
You know what this is going tobe an episode that people listen
to.
It'll be on the website, it'llbe a resource.
So what all is the benefit ofreally knowing?
Because I feel like there's alot of Christians perhaps, maybe
like myself, where they just goabout their Christian life and
(45:42):
they just try their best toserve in the church and they
don't really pinpoint, maybelike this is my spiritual gift
or this isn't, but is there abenefit to really like finding
that?
Bob (45:53):
this isn't.
But is there a benefit toreally like finding that?
Um, yeah, I would say a hundredpercent there is, um, because
those that are just kind ofgoing through not really knowing
how to they're, they'reprobably dissatisfied, and
they're dissatisfied because thespirit won't let them be
satisfied, because they're notusing their gifts the way God
intends them to use them.
So I think there's greatbenefit in knowing and utilizing
your gifts, because God gavethem to you for a reason and he
(46:14):
intends for you to use them.
So I think there's benefit,both personal benefit, but also
the reason you have them is tobuild up the body of Christ.
The body of Christ is nevergoing to be what it's intended
to be if all the gifts aren'tbeing utilized in the church
being utilized in the church.
(46:34):
I used an illustration when Italked about this a few Sundays
ago where I said if my right legdecided it didn't want to
function, then all the rest ofmy body is working fine, but I'm
always having to drag my rightleg along.
Well, I'm not functioning at100% because my right leg is not
using its gifts.
And the same in the body ofChrist If there are certain
members of the body of Christwho are not using, they're not
discovering and using theirgifts, then we're not
(46:55):
functioning at the level we'resupposed to be, and so the
church won't be where it'ssupposed to be.
And I don't think theindividual believer will be at a
point where they're thriving intheir walk with Christ because
they're not utilizing everythingthat God's intended for them to
utilize.
Kara (47:13):
Good stuff.
Well, thank you guys.
Trent (47:16):
Thank you for this episode yeah.
Bob (47:18):
You had a mic Exciting Fun having Kira officially on a
microphone, that's nice.
Trent (47:23):
All right, Well, hey, should I?
Should I end with the extrathing you put on this little
system?
Kara (47:27):
I think you should All right.
Trent (47:32):
Maybe you should do a little clap first.
Oh, I pushed the wrong one.
It's such a good episode, youready?
Bob (47:38):
Yeah, bye, have a great time, that's it Thanks.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.