January 19, 2025 • 38 mins
In today's episode, Pastor Trent and Pastor Bob discuss the second commandment, where the people of the Lord were commanded, "“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath, or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them nor serve them;"" and our Pastor talk about what this commandment means in the lives of believers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Good morning, good afternoon and good night.
Just kidding, it's a goodafternoon.
How are you guys?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's afternoon while we're recording.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
You don't know when they're listening, that's right,
they could be listening andtaking a sip out of their coffee
right now.
They could, or they could be.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I don't know what they're doing, or they?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
could be listening to the podcast to go to sleep.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I could put them to sleep.
They could be.
Are they out for a jog orthey're just driving in their
car?
Whatever time of day it is thatthey're listening.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Hello, what if they're right now about to eat
some leftover Christmas candy?
That's very specific and rightnow they're like oh, he just
spoke to me because I amcurrently eating some leftover
Christmas candy.
That's very specific.
And right now they're like oh,he just spoke to me because I am
currently eating some OctoberChristmas candy.
If that's you, you should leavea rating and review.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
You should.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
That's just.
I'm not prophetic, neverclaimed to be, but maybe that's
you and if it is, you shouldleave a rating and review.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Is this like pre-wrapped Christmas candy?
Because otherwise that'd belike really old Christmas candy.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Oh, definitely pre-wrapped.
We're talking about what's inthe stocking, like the little
Reese's cups.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
The candy cane that's still in the little wrapper,
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
They need to find a better way to package candy
canes the larger candy canes,the small ones that have an
oversized wrapper great.
The big candy canes that arelike tightly wrapped like saran
wrap, almost so difficult toopen if, if they don't have a
you know little sleeve kind of,you kind of pull and it pulls
the whole thing kind of off.
You know what I'm talking about.
(01:34):
Sometimes they'll have like thepocket and you almost like
these first world problems youhave are so challenging.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, I think a lot of people use them to decorate.
That's why you know, that's whynot a lot of people are out
here munching on those I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
But why were candy canes invented?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
There is a story behind candy canes, but I don't
know how accurate it is.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, I mean you hear like it's a shepherd's staff
and you turn it sideways andit's the letter J for Jesus and
red is the blood us clean?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I don't know how accurate all that is.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
But like is that?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
really what the guy was thinking when he was making
candy canes.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Don't know, how did we get on this topic?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I don't know.
There's no way to know.
No way to know Except for AIslash, google slash, our podcast
assistant researcher, lady Cara, you can talk in the mic if
you'd like to what?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
do you got?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
AI is quick, you can talk in the mic if you'd like to
.
What do you?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
got AI is quick.
The origin of the candy cane isa popular story that dates back
to 1670 in Cologne, Germany.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
No one can say we're not historic.
On the podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
A choir master at Cologne Cathedral gave sugar
sticks to his choir boys to keepthem quiet during Christmas Eve
mass to honor the shepherds inthe story Seems like that would
not keep them quiet.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I guess if they've got it in their mouth they can't
talk and eat.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
But giving sugar to kids to keep them quiet doesn't
seem like the best plan.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, Wait to honor the shepherds in the story he
bent the candy canes.
So it is the candy sticks tothem in the shape of the
shepherd's crooks, the white andthe color represents the
Christian belief in Jesus'sinless life.
So I think all the things arecorrect.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Come on, we found it on the internet, it must be true
From Cologny, germany.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Oh, it's Cologny.
No, it's Cologny.
It looks like Cologny.
You said it right, he's justmessing with you.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It just looks like Cologny.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Like Bologna.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Bologna, yep, everybody.
That was the podcast to go tosleep Success.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
No, they're definitely awake now.
They were Googling it to see ifthey could get research faster.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
They are snoring right now?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I don't think so.
I think they're having a blast.
You were about to say somethingwhile we were talking about
Calogne and then the Shepherdstaff.
What were you about to say?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I was just getting us back on track, on track.
This is the banter section thisis the track.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
We are on the track.
Hey, Pastor Bob, did you know?
Kara, did you know that thelyrebird L-Y-R-E not lyre like
L-A-R?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
L-I-A-R.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Let me spell lyre right L-I-A-R, L-Y-R-E.
The lyrebird can mimic almostany sound.
It hears.
A lyrebird.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I listened to the lyrebird about two minutes
before this podcast.
Did you know that wildlifewatchers have recorded the
Australian species, copying notonly other birds but other
animals like koalas, andartificial sounds such as car
alarms, camera shutters and evenchainsaws?
This is crazy.
(04:24):
I actually have it pulled up.
We're going to listen to it,and it looks like and sounds
like this was a video podcast.
It looks and sounds likethey're adding the audio after.
Are you ready for this?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So this is you get interested in the most strange
thing.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
This is David Attenborough, of course, from.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
BBC Wildlife here we go.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Ready for this?
So different sounds.
You'll hear the chainsaw at theend.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It's a very convincing impersonation.
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Even the original is fooled, so impersonating other
animals right now other birds.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
He can imitate the calls of at least 20 different
species.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
He also, in his attempt to out sing his rivals,
incorporates other sounds thathe hears in the forest.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
That was a camera shutter.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Wait for the chainsaw .
Speaker 1 (05:33):
And again Camera shutter, here we go Hi.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
The sounds of foresters and their chainsaws
working nearby.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I mean, that's wild.
Did you hear the saw at the end?
Yes, it sounds like a chainsawwith trees falling in the
distance in a forest.
That's pretty insane.
I thought that was cool.
That's quite interesting.
I'm glad you guys aren'texcited about God's creation
over here.
That was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
No, I think it's funny because it's not the true
sound, so it's almost like theliar bird is.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
A liar L-A-I-R.
L-i-a-r Lying.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Pretty cool, though it's great.
I thought it was cool.
It's like a hyper-talentedparrot.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Exactly yeah, but a chainsaw sound.
I mean you've got to figure outyour vocal cords.
I didn't buy the chainsaw soundit sounded more like R2-D2.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
The saw, though the saw was more authentic.
The back and forth, thechainsaw, was a little.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I think he missed on that one.
Okay, you're a sports ball fan,pastor Bob.
A sports ball, you're a sportman.
I'm not sure, what all thatmeans, but so there were some
different sports analysts thatput together what are supposedly
the eight hardest positions toplay in the most popular us
sports.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
So this does not include, like, tennis or golf,
because there's no positions intennis or golf all right, so
you're thinking like footballand basketball and baseball, and
hockey us sports okay, so it'sgoing to be multiple positions
in each of those sports, becausethere aren't eight team sports
that are popular in the unitedstates, sure?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
correct.
So out of the top eight, thereare multiple positions in the
same sport.
Okay, so, um, let's just so youcan shout out, and you have to
give a number to them.
And I'm in the United States,sure, correct.
So out of the top eight, thereare multiple positions in the
same sport.
So let's, just so you can shoutout, and you have to give a
number to them, and I'm going totell you where they're on that
list.
So start guessing.
I've got the list right here,pulled up in front of me, and
you're trying to guess what are?
the eight hardest positions.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
They're going to say NFL quarterback, somewhere near
the top of that quarterback isnumber six.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Quarterback is number six.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
It's not the hardest um, I would say a pitcher in
baseball any specific type ofpitcher starting pitcher
actually starting pitchers, noton the top eight.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Well, they don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
A relief pitcher is how is a relief pitcher a harder
thing to do than a starting?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
pitcher.
You read the article.
Here we go, I don.
Relief pitcher was number threeand it says that, no matter
what circumstance, a reliefpitcher must be ready to produce
and deliver at all times,whether it is nursing a one-run
lead, keeping the game withinreach after the starting pitcher
handed the ball over to you,with multiple runners on base
and the game in the balance,nursing a comfortable lead yada
(08:25):
y nursing and comfortable lead.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
A relief pitcher comes in andgets one out, maybe two or three
.
A starting pitcher has to gomultiple innings, facing the
batting lineup multiple times.
Well, pastor bob, if onlyyou're a sports analyst, if only
okay, so you're two for two ongetting the top eight okay,
pitcher, and, and so I would saygoalie and hockey, perhaps
goalie in hockey is number fiveOkay.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah three for three on getting top eight Yep yep.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It's not really a hitter in baseball is really
hard, but I don't think they'reconsidering that a position
player.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So yeah, that's not a position player, I won't take
that one.
You have three lives, by theway, you've still got all three
lives.
You're three for three.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Wow, wow, come on sports guy.
Is one position in basketballharder than the other four
positions on the court?
Apparently Guard, I wouldassume Shooting guard, point
guard.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Which one are you going to go with?
Point guard?
Point guard's number eight.
Okay, point guard's numbereight.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Because you have to handle the ball a little more
than the shooting guard right.
Sure sure and still shoot likea shooting guard, Right.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So I'm going to go back to football and they're
probably going to say runningback or wide receiver.
They're going to look at theskill positions.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Actually, there's your first life gone.
Really, and I may take twolives from me.
Because he said two positionsthere, I'll take one for now.
Make sure you guess one at atime.
He's so neither.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Neither are topic.
How benevolent are you.
Neither one are top eightmiddle linebacker, then how
about that?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
middle linebacker is also not on the list.
So you have two lives going sothink there are plenty of
football positions.
I say plenty.
There's two more footballpositions on here.
Yeah, center football positions.
I say plenty, there's uh, twomore football positions on here.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, center center is not on the list.
What do these people know aboutsports?
One life.
Who are these?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
analysts that you are referring to.
I would say not that I wouldhave automatically known this
position being the top eighthardest, but so they're going to
say tackle, because they haveto guard the outside rusher
tackle left.
Tackle is number seven right.
Okay, so there's one footballposition.
It is a tick tock, but it'salso it's from I found the
actual article so that they'rereferring to um.
So this position has beendebated as one of the hardest
(10:36):
positions, if not the hardestposition in in football.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Um, it is a defensive position you want me to name
all of them no, try to think ofwhat.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
What people, people say is the.
It is a defensive position.
You want me to name all of them?
No, try to think of what peoplesay is the hardest.
Do you know that that's aposition.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I know nothing about sports ball.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Okay, I mean, you're talking free safety, you're
talking cornerback, you'retalking nose tackle.
Out of the three of those,cornerback is number two of
eight hardest positions to play.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
It says cornerback.
Okay, two of eight hardestpositions to play.
It says Cornerback.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You not only have to kind of be able to receive, but
also you've got to guard thereceiver.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
They play cornerback because they can't catch Well.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So that's what you might think, but it says it's
harder, more difficult yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
What other sport are we missing here?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
All right, so you have a soccer position.
I'm still letting you have onesoccer position.
They actually list a soccerposition they do.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I'm going to assume they don't know what they're
talking about in that either,but I would assume they're going
to say it is the centermidfielder they do not, then the
forward is what they'reprobably thinking.
They don't say goalkeeper.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Tell me they don't say goalkeeper.
Goalkeeper is number four.
Who?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
are these people?
They're sports analysts.
No, they're not, it's that'swhat it said I?
I want to.
Can I call a friend?
Do you want to call?
I want to call scott smithbecause I don't think he would
agree with this list, I thinkyou can call him if you want to.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
He's probably not at work right now.
He doesn't work until evening.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Go for it let's call him okay.
So right now you lost yourlives.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
We, we're going to keep going.
So one I disagree with thiswholeheartedly.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Well, you know you're a sports guy, you're not a
sports analyst, so here we go.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So you have number two is cornerback, you have.
Number three is relief pitcher,you have.
Number four is goalkeeper,number five is goalie at hockey.
Number six is quarterback.
You said left tackle, numberseven, and point guard, number
eight.
You've number eight.
You've just missed number one.
So far it's a baseball position, shortstop.
No, what's number one?
(12:31):
It says the most difficultposition catcher, catcher.
It says catcher, uh, let's seewhat it says.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I don't disagree.
The catcher is a difficultposition to play.
I'm not sure.
I would say it is the mostdifficult position in sport to
play.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
The catching position is by far the hardest position
in sports.
It says catchers have to squatfor nine innings trying to catch
baseballs that range from 75miles per hour with a high spin
and movement to pitches with 103miles per hour with movement as
well.
Not only that, there's a mentaland strategic aspect to
catching as well, as catchersusually help determine what
pitch should be a throne next.
So they all kind of like playcatchers I know a little bit
(13:02):
about play callers I know alittle bit about they also have
to turn around and hit thoseaforementioned pitches as well
as which as well, which is adifficult job in itself.
That's what it says.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Oh, I have great respect for catchers, so would
you put catchers number one?
I don't know that I would putthem number one.
I'd put them on the list.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I'm pretty high on the list or goalie in hockey
Goalie in hockey is it's on thelist?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's nuts.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So goalie in A goalkeeper in soccer shouldn't
be on the list.
No, professional goalkeeper no,really I asked.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
AI what the easiest positions are.
And number one said soccergoalkeeper, goalkeeper.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Well, AI needs to talk to these sports fans.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I'm surprised Punter would be.
That's what I'm saying Based ontheir list.
I'm surprised Punter isn't onthere.
Should a person?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Which isn't an easy thing to do, by the way Should a
person who does not havenecessarily the best of genes
not genes you wear, but genes.
Yeah, I got it, and they wanttheir kids to play.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Thanks for mansplaining that to me, you're
welcome.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I am a man and I was explaining.
If they want their kid to playprofessional football, would
they have a pretty good chanceif they just like, starting at
five years old, just teach themhow to punt, Give them punting
lessons.
Be the best punter, Because whodoes that Right?
I mean there might be kickinglessons but, specifically
punting.
Does anyone does?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
that Right?
I mean, there might be kickinglessons, but specifically
punting, does anyone do that?
Yeah, they do actually Really.
People specialize in it, forsure.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, I mean it is a gift.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
It is talented.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
That young though, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I would.
I would encourage parents notto pigeonhole their kids into
one sport early on.
To let them play multiplesports.
It'll help them overall Justfine.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
So all the lessons I've given you Fine, fine, fine,
fine.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I put the ball in his left hand and make him throw it
.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Pastor Bob, you're just bantering and bantering and
bantering.
Let's get on to the topic.
The topic is the secondcommandment.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I am the one who likes to banter on this group.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Sub heading is on graven images and golden calves,
are we idolizing our sportsidols?
I don't know I got to meet one.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You did.
You were telling me that storybefore we came on.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I wouldn't say first name basis, but we don't want to
talk about that.
Yes, so on the secondcommandment.
So, I wanted to look at a few ofthe different commandments and
just ask some questions.
Do they still apply?
What do they mean, you know?
If they do still apply, how dowe apply them to our lives?
Will they tell us about thenature of God?
So the second commandment,specifically, it's found in
Exodus 20, verses 4 through 6.
(15:35):
I'm going to go ahead and readit.
It says this you shall not makefor yourselves a carved image
or any likeness of anything thatis in heaven above, or that is
in the earth beneath, or that isin the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down to themor serve them, for I am the Lord
, your God, am a jealous Godvisiting the iniquity of the
(16:00):
fathers on the children, to thethird and fourth generation of
those who hate me, but showingsteadfast love to thousands of
those who love me and keep mycommandments.
The second commandment youshall not make for yourself a
carved image and specifically,bow down and serve it.
Pastor Bob, what is Godforbidding here?
(16:22):
Can we paint a picture or workwith clay?
Yes or no?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay.
Is there any certain type ofartistry that might be
prohibited?
Type of, not things that youcan do with art, but type of
Sculpturing, not Engineering?
I don't think that's the heartof the okay, the commandment
okay, so what is god forbiddinghere?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
putting anything above him in your devotion in
your life in your lovespecifically, maybe something
created specifically in thesecond commandment.
Yes, okay, yes, which buildsoff of the second commandment.
Yes, okay, yes, which buildsoff of the first commandment, of
course.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Created, which I mean everything is created other
than God, right.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I mean using the creation he has created and
creating it into some sort ofidol to worship it.
Yes, yeah, okay, sure so prettymuch distilling it down,
worshiping anything other thanGod.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I believe that's what it says.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah.
Then it says he's a jealous God.
How do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
He's rightly jealous.
Jealous isn't necessarily anegative thing, it seems like it
is in the Bible.
Well, we put our context onto it.
We think jealousy is a badthing because we typically are
jealous for the wrong reasons.
But when you are fullydeserving of devotion, when you
are completely right andcompletely pure and completely
(17:50):
holy and all glorious, youdeserve all man's praise.
My wife has the right to bejealous of my love towards her.
I don't have the right to giveany of my affections or love to
another woman because I'vededicated my life to her.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Would you say it like this your wife can be jealous
for you because you are hers,right?
Okay.
So then, if God has createdhumanity, he can rightly be
jealous of their attention andtheir affection, because
humanity was created by him, forhim, for him, okay.
So he's jealous, rightly so,because he's jealous for the
(18:31):
attention and affection of thatwhich he created or belongs to
him.
Okay, yes.
Whereas jealousy in the wrongway would be like man, that was
a really cool car I saw outside.
That does not belong to me.
That's a form of covetingCoveting Right, right, I'm
jealous that that guy has thatcar and I want it, so I covet it
.
Yeah, you're angry because you,you desire and do not have
(18:52):
James, chapter two or three,yeah, or four, I think it's
three.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Is it three?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
It's in there somewhere.
Yeah, not, not three.
Two is partiality, I think it'sthree.
Three sounds right.
Okay, it might be four, I can'tremember.
Okay, so idolatry is at theheart of the command.
Yes, it is.
Worship belongs to God and Godalone.
He is jealous for that worshipand demands it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Okay, yes, okay, because he knows man's heart is
inclined towards it.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Man's heart is inclined towards it.
Okay, man's heart is inclinedtowards worship.
He's created us that way, torecognize that there is
something greater than us thatwe need to worship.
And man easily takes that andpoints it in the wrong direction
often.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
What is an example of idolatry in the Old Testament
where this was broken veryclearly?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Sure in the Old Testament where this was broken
very clearly.
Sure, there's many.
Probably the most well-known isthe golden calf that they
created.
Just 12 chapters later orsomething like that.
Yeah, when Moses goes up toreceive these Ten Commandments,
the people of Israel are going.
We need a God we can see toworship.
We need a God we can touch toworship, and so they melt down
their gold and create a goldencalf.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, in Exodus 32, moses is up on the mountain.
They're like did the guy leaveus?
And of course, moses isrelating to God on the mountain.
And so they turn to Aaron.
Hey, you know Moses, you'refriends with him.
You're like second commandright, we want to worship like
(20:25):
the Egyptians did.
The Egyptians had this big,great economy.
They had all these buildingsand they were just blossoming
and we're starving and we'refrustrated.
This does not look like theland of milk and honey.
It does not look that great.
Over here they're almost likenot them.
When they're hungry they needto do snickers in some ways,
because on this side of thewater they're acting like the
(20:48):
other side was better.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Right they're returning to what they had seen,
what they had seen modeledbefore them, the egyptians
worshiping multiple gods anddepicting them in in artwork, in
in statues and monuments, andthey would worship them.
That's what they saw played outbefore them all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So it seems like there in Exodus 32, I just
looked at it a minute ago seemslike they're shouting out we
want some kind of carved imageto serve gods.
I say gods, and then Moses putsome kind of placard on it or an
altar on it and says serve theLord Right.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And so Moses is saying like okay, worship this
thing in service to the Lord.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Say that again.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, exodus, chapter 32.
He says this to Aaron.
Let's see here, verse 2.
Aaron said to them take therings of gold that are in the
ears of your wives, your sonsand your daughters, which they
would have taken from theEgyptians as they plundered them
as God instructed them to.
So all the people took therings of gold that were in their
ears and brought them to Aaron.
Aaron fashioned a golden calf.
(21:53):
They said people, these areyour gods, israel, who brought
you up out of the land of Egypt.
Gods plural right of the landof Egypt, gods plural right.
But they're attributing gods tothe golden calf and saying
these gods took you out of theland.
When Aaron saw this, he builtan altar before and Aaron made a
proclamation and said tomorrowshall be a feast to the Lord.
So it's like we're going tohonor the Lord, aaron says, who
(22:18):
brought us up out of the land,by worshiping false gods and
specifically through the imageof a golden calf.
It's weird.
It's a weird scenario.
It is yeah, and so, however, Imean, the Lord had given them
the command.
You don't make images, youdon't serve images, you don't
worship images.
Even if you're saying, well,I'm worshiping the image, but
(22:39):
I'd want to serve you, lord,right?
You're saying, well, I'mworshiping the image, but I'd
want to serve you, lord, right?
The only mediator that we haveis the grace of God now seen in
the face of Jesus Christ, wherewe have access to God.
You don't use any sort of imagecarved, drawn, to give your
worship to the Lord.
You can now, of course, thisside of the cross, go to Christ
(23:01):
by the Spirit, to the Father,but they were.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Christ is the image of the Almighty God Again it's
their hearts crying out forsomething tangible, something
that they can see, hold andworship.
They can't see the Lord.
So this is what we have alreadyexperienced.
So let's do this and we seethis throughout their history 1
and 2 Chronicles.
1 and 2 Samuel.
1 and 2 Kings experience.
So let's do this and we seethis throughout their history
First and second chronicles.
First and second Samuel, firstand second Kings.
(23:26):
It is just a cycle of runningafter idols, god calling them
out for it, sending prophets andjudges and saying return,
repent.
There is condemnation for it,there's repentance.
And then they start the wholeprocess all over again, over and
over and over and over and overagain.
Um, we even see it when, um,the fiery serpents come into
(23:50):
their, into their camp, um, andMoses instructs them hey, create
this stick and hold it up inthe air with a serpent on it,
and if you look at the serpenton the stick, you'll be healed,
and if you don't, you won't.
And they do and they're healed.
Later on, they have to destroythat stick, because they started
(24:12):
worshiping the stick Instead ofworshiping God, which is again
where I think our hearts areinclined to things that are
tangible things.
We can see things we can see,things we can touch, relics from
the biblical time are stillthroughout Christianity
worshipped.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Why is that Is it, because trusting in an invisible
God requires faith, and faithis hard.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I think, at the end of the day, yes, trusting in
what we can't see.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Trusting in what we cannot see.
Abraham look at the stars.
That's an example of what Iwill do.
Yes, that's the trusting whatwe can't see.
Trusting in what we cannot seeAbraham look at the stars.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
That's an example of what I will do.
Right.
And he trusted the Lord and theLord counted it to him as
righteousness, Right.
And so you see, you know imagesthat come upon buildings and
people go, oh, that looks likethe image of Mary, and they
begin to worship at the image ofMary because it are a potato
chip that looks like you know,just crazy things, but the heart
is drawn to worship number one,and worship that which we can
see and hold.
And so there's just this pattern.
(25:11):
And it doesn't just have to beinanimate objects, it can be
people, it can be pastors, itcan be sports stars Any number
of things.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Those are all created beings.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
They are all created beings.
They're not graven images inthe midst that someone took a
piece of stone and carved it out, chiseled it out, or a piece of
wood and carved it out, but atthe end of the day, it's not God
, it is a created being that isdesigned to point us to God but
not point us to themselves.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, people and things make crummy gods oh
absolutely.
They all have expiration dates.
Yes, God does not.
Okay, so is this commandmentlike?
Does this still apply today?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
So Christ, he Ephesians chapter 2, end of
chapter 2, abolished the law andcommandments that you know.
We would probably say those arethe ceremonial laws.
But how are we to think Christfulfilled this in some sort of
way?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Oh, as you say, he didn't come to do away with the
law, he came to fulfill it.
Right, and you have the dietarylaws and you have the moral
laws, and Christ perfectlyfulfilled all these things.
He is the image of God.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
I think that's key.
He's the image of Almighty Godright.
He is perfection with feetright.
He's perfection with hands, andso when we're to know what God
looks like, well, we look at howthe Holy Spirit you know,
through Mary there's, jesusthere's.
God, right, I mean, I want tokeep my language Trinitarian
(26:45):
here, right, but he took onhuman flesh.
So if there could be an idol,right, that's deserving of
worship, jesus is he who shouldbe worshiped.
He's the image of Almighty God.
We worship Jesus.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Sure, but he's not an idol that we worship.
He is God.
He is God in the flesh, correct, correct, 100%, 100% and an
eternal being part of the triuneGodhead who has always been.
He just took on flesh.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Correct.
So what I'm trying to say isall these idols that were
created by man, they like, justcomparing basically a piece of
metal to Jesus himself.
Right, Jesus does not fail you.
A piece of metal will rightSure and any sort of thing that
we can create.
(27:38):
Well, the God-man was notcreated, right, he was composed
of flesh, but he was God in theflesh.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Romans 1 helps us.
You know, we move our eyes fromthe creator to the creation and
in so doing we suppress thetruth and begin to worship that
which God created not thecreator.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
How do we worship God ?
We look at Jesus.
We give our praise and worshipto the Son of God.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Who said if you've seen me, you've seen the Father.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I and the Father are one.
That's right.
Yeah, I think that's helpful,right.
So all that man tried toconstruct on its own came for us
, the God-man, the image ofAlmighty God, where the fullness
of God was pleased to dwell.
Right, we worship Jesus, god inthe flesh, who stands between
(28:31):
us and God and invites us intothe presence of Almighty God.
I think that's really helpful,right.
You can't create Jesus.
He's not created.
He is God himself.
So I just think there'ssomething there that I think we
should just sit back and say Goddid what even all of the people
in the Old Testament tried todo, right, yeah, yeah, sent his
(28:57):
son the only one worthy of yourworship.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And again, it all builds off the first commandment
you shall love the Lord, yourGod, with all your heart, mind,
soul and strength.
Well, anything that comes inthe way of you loving God with
everything you've got your heart, your mind, your soul and
strength is an idol, Whetherit's a physical idol or a
metaphorical idol, whatever itis, whatever draws your
attention, whatever draws yourdevotion, whatever draws you
(29:22):
away from pursuing Christ, thatbecomes your idol, and we have
to be very weary of those things.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think those are two really good words
to use.
Idolatry incorporates where youplace the majority and priority
of your attention and whatstirs ultimately your greatest
affection.
It's an attention and affectionright.
So created things like a phoneor created things like some
achievement can become an idolright.
(29:52):
Anything we can come up withcan become an idol.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
And that's not to say we shouldn't enjoy things.
God gave us these things forenjoyment.
That doesn't mean we can't befans of sports or arts or
pursuing a career.
It just means it needs to beproperly ordered in our lives.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, I think.
Two questions to ask.
Is this an idol in my life?
Number one does this steal myattention and affection for the
Lord?
Does this steal my attentionand affection for the Lord.
And then number two, if thiswas taken from me am I just
devastated and lost without it?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Do I find more joy in it than I do in my relationship
with Christ?
That's good.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Okay, so here's a random question to throw in at
the end of this podcast.
So over the years there havebeen many different ways to
create things to remind us ofJesus' work to remind us of the
words of God in the Bible, toremind us of God himself In the
(30:52):
church.
Oftentimes we have crosses.
Those are created things, right.
Sometimes we'll have picturesof Jesus, maybe in our office or
in other buildings, maybe inour homes.
Those are created things,created heavenly things.
The Sistine Chapel,michelangelo, God himself.
(31:13):
I think that's the painting ofhis finger reaching man, his
finger reaching man.
During Christmas time we havenativity sets Jesus, god in the
flesh, created.
How do we think of these things.
I say that because there aresome in church history who've
kind of pushed back on hey, weshouldn't have those things.
(31:35):
Or maybe they make adistinction between God should
not be pictured, because he isinvisible, but Jesus is the
image of God.
He was visible.
People could see him.
If there was cameras, theycould have taken a picture of
him.
If someone sat him down on achair and had a canvas in front
of him, they could have paintedhim.
And so it's okay to havepictures and images of Jesus, so
(31:56):
long as we, of course, don'tworship that image.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
We worship the Jesus of the Bible, as he's revealed
in the Bible Sure, and I thinkthe majority of the things
you've just mentioned werecreated in order to be a tool to
tell the story or to remind usof what happened in the Bible
that God has revealed.
Right, so ancient cathedrals inEurope that have these frescoes,
that paint these pictures youmentioned the Sistine Chapel
(32:25):
there's.
All of these things were doneprior to print.
They were done prior to,obviously, television and
pictures and those things, andthey were done as tools to tell
the story, so that people couldpoint to the picture on the wall
and say this is, let me tellyou, the story.
It was intended to be that way,didn't always stay that way,
(32:47):
and that which was created forgood again got turned into
something that became somethingthat was idolized.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, good intentions can still become bad ideas.
Sure.
Okay, sure yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
And your distinction between creating image of God,
who is spirit and we cannot see.
We don't know what he lookslike.
He does not have flesh andblood, like we do, versus
creating an image of Christ who.
We don't know what Christlooked like, sure.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
But, yet he is, but he did take on flesh he took on
flesh.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
He took on the form of a human.
He did take on flesh.
He took on flesh.
He took on the form of a human.
So is there a distinctionbetween trying to draw a picture
of God and drawing a picture ofJesus?
I don't know that.
I would make that distinction.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, okay, well, any other thoughts?
I probably want to walk back afew of my statements earlier,
just to make sure I did not saythat Jesus is an idol.
Idols are fashioned by man.
But Jesus is the image ofAlmighty God.
Any images of ours compare orcannot compare, fail at
comparison, and we worship theSon of God, the image of God
(33:54):
which is Jesus, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I still take issue with your so-called sports
analyst in their list.
I'm bitter.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
So what would be the hardest position?
No, no, no, hold on, no, holdon.
So, mr Analyst Bob, seniorAnalyst, senior Pastor, senior
Analyst, sports guy, sports ballyeah, baseball is one of your
favorite sports.
Yeah, soccer is your favoritesport, that's the one I've
played the most.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Baseball is your second favorite sport Only
because my boys play it orplayed it.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Well, what's your second favorite sport?
Cricket.
What's your second favoritesport?
I don't know that.
I rank them actually Okay.
What's your second favoritesport?
I, really Okay.
So what would you say is thehardest position in each sport?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Let's go, I would just say a professional hockey
player.
I don't care what position itis.
Amaze me, those guys are men.
The athletic ability, thehand-eye coordination, the body
control, the cardio, the legstrength.
The animal instincts, all ofthat and having to make
(35:00):
decisions.
I'm amazed by hockey players.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
So I would put them at a level they got to be high.
Yeah, I don't disagree that acatcher has to have amazing
skills, but there's otherpositions as well, okay, In
baseball hardest position,shortstop Pitcher, first baseman
or catcher I would say pitcher,catcher yeah, to be able to do
(35:27):
what those guys do with abaseball.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
But then I would also add hitting.
Hitting a baseball coming atyou at 100 miles an hour is
Impossible, it's almostimpossible.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, that's the thing, though it's not
technically a position, becausethey all have to do it.
Okay, impossible, it's almostimpossible.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, that's the thing, though it's not
technically a position, becausethey all correct okay hardest
position and would you still saygoalie?
In hockey they don't move asmuch.
Yeah, they don't, and and youknow they've got so much gear on
these days, but still, yeah,it's tough, I mean, and that
that puck's coming at you whenyou're getting screened, it's,
it's tough, but I I don't knowthat I would elevate the
goalkeeper over the rest of thepositions in hockey.
They're all just impressiveSoccer, midfielder or forward.
It depends on, honestly, itdepends on the structure of the
(36:08):
team and how it's played.
Usually your center back oryour center midfielder are your
two strongest players.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Okay, center back is just like the middle defender.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, but he kind of serves almost as a quarterback.
Again, it depends on formations.
Okay, basketball, probablypoint guard.
Still, I'm not a basketball guy, so Probably point guard Maybe.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Do they get the ball the most?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
They control the game the most, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
They probably shoot near.
I would say shooting guardmight be more difficult, but
they shoot probably near thesame amount as a quarterback
would Maybe.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I'm not a basketball guy so.
I can't speak with greatauthority there.
Football, would you still sayquarterback, quarterback.
They have to know so much.
They have to know everybodyelse's role, they have to know
everybody else's position.
They have to be able to, youknow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
They've got to have the most pressure on them.
But it also depends on whatyou're running.
If you're just running a veeroption all the time, you got to
be athletic.
But you know, I just think Ididn't mean to get us back into
this conversation.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
By the way, I was just being clever at the end of
the conversation we'll closewith this.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I do think pressure has to weigh into this and I
don't know that they weighed inpressure.
Yeah, um, because a cornerbackcan make, has to run a lot, has
to make really hard to you know,know, whatever plays, but a
quarterback, everybody'swatching that guy all the time.
Right, he has to change hismind in the middle of a, you
(37:28):
know, a play.
So I don't know, of course,quarterbacks got to be up there.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Cornerback is tough because you're on an Island Most
of the time.
You don't always get back upand it's a very reactionary
position, Very reaction you haveto respond quickly to.
You have to read the hips andthe feet of the wide receiver,
their speed, what they're doing.
There's a lot that goes into it, but you could say that about
every position on a footballfield.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, a receiver has a route, a cornerbacks.
Trying to figure out that routeand not let the receiver catch.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Right so that's.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
That's tricky, and run as fast as the receiver.
Yeah, all right.
Well, thanks for listening in.
Hopefully this was a helpfulpodcast.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Kara.
Was it helpful?
It was pretty helpful.
I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
The sports conversation part or the
idolatry part.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
The idolatry part.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And the sports.
That was fun.
Do you watch?
Speaker 3 (38:16):
any sports I can't say I do oh okay, does Jay yeah
what does he watch football?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
football and stuff, yeah does he like any like weird
sports, like sports peopledon't normally watch cricket not
that I know cornhole that'salright disc golf he likes that
too okay, well, thanks forlistening in.
We hope you enjoyed your timehere.
We sure did, and we will seeyou later bye, have a.
Good morning, good afternoon and good night.
Just kidding, it's a goodafternoon.
How are you guys?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's afternoon while we're recording.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
You don't know when they're listening, that's right,
they could be listening andtaking a sip out of their coffee
right now.
They could, or they could be.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I don't know what they're doing, or they?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
could be listening to the podcast to go to sleep.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I could put them to sleep.
They could be.
Are they out for a jog orthey're just driving in their
car?
Whatever time of day it is thatthey're listening.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Hello, what if they're right now about to eat
some leftover Christmas candy?
That's very specific and rightnow they're like oh, he just
spoke to me because I amcurrently eating some leftover
Christmas candy.
That's very specific.
And right now they're like oh,he just spoke to me because I am
currently eating some OctoberChristmas candy.
If that's you, you should leavea rating and review.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
You should.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
That's just.
I'm not prophetic, neverclaimed to be, but maybe that's
you and if it is, you shouldleave a rating and review.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Is this like pre-wrapped Christmas candy?
Because otherwise that'd belike really old Christmas candy.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Oh, definitely pre-wrapped.
We're talking about what's inthe stocking, like the little
Reese's cups.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
The candy cane that's still in the little wrapper,
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
They need to find a better way to package candy
canes the larger candy canes,the small ones that have an
oversized wrapper great.
The big candy canes that arelike tightly wrapped like saran
wrap, almost so difficult toopen if, if they don't have a
you know little sleeve kind of,you kind of pull and it pulls
the whole thing kind of off.
You know what I'm talking about.
(01:34):
Sometimes they'll have like thepocket and you almost like
these first world problems youhave are so challenging.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, I think a lot of people use them to decorate.
That's why you know, that's whynot a lot of people are out
here munching on those I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
But why were candy canes invented?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
There is a story behind candy canes, but I don't
know how accurate it is.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, I mean you hear like it's a shepherd's staff
and you turn it sideways andit's the letter J for Jesus and
red is the blood us clean?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I don't know how accurate all that is.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
But like is that?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
really what the guy was thinking when he was making
candy canes.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Don't know, how did we get on this topic?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I don't know.
There's no way to know.
No way to know Except for AIslash, google slash, our podcast
assistant researcher, lady Cara, you can talk in the mic if
you'd like to what?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
do you got?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
AI is quick, you can talk in the mic if you'd like to
.
What do you?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
got AI is quick.
The origin of the candy cane isa popular story that dates back
to 1670 in Cologne, Germany.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
No one can say we're not historic.
On the podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
A choir master at Cologne Cathedral gave sugar
sticks to his choir boys to keepthem quiet during Christmas Eve
mass to honor the shepherds inthe story Seems like that would
not keep them quiet.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I guess if they've got it in their mouth they can't
talk and eat.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
But giving sugar to kids to keep them quiet doesn't
seem like the best plan.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, Wait to honor the shepherds in the story he
bent the candy canes.
So it is the candy sticks tothem in the shape of the
shepherd's crooks, the white andthe color represents the
Christian belief in Jesus'sinless life.
So I think all the things arecorrect.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Come on, we found it on the internet, it must be true
From Cologny, germany.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Oh, it's Cologny.
No, it's Cologny.
It looks like Cologny.
You said it right, he's justmessing with you.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It just looks like Cologny.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Like Bologna.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Bologna, yep, everybody.
That was the podcast to go tosleep Success.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
No, they're definitely awake now.
They were Googling it to see ifthey could get research faster.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
They are snoring right now?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I don't think so.
I think they're having a blast.
You were about to say somethingwhile we were talking about
Calogne and then the Shepherdstaff.
What were you about to say?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I was just getting us back on track, on track.
This is the banter section thisis the track.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
We are on the track.
Hey, Pastor Bob, did you know?
Kara, did you know that thelyrebird L-Y-R-E not lyre like
L-A-R?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
L-I-A-R.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Let me spell lyre right L-I-A-R, L-Y-R-E.
The lyrebird can mimic almostany sound.
It hears.
A lyrebird.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I listened to the lyrebird about two minutes
before this podcast.
Did you know that wildlifewatchers have recorded the
Australian species, copying notonly other birds but other
animals like koalas, andartificial sounds such as car
alarms, camera shutters and evenchainsaws?
This is crazy.
(04:24):
I actually have it pulled up.
We're going to listen to it,and it looks like and sounds
like this was a video podcast.
It looks and sounds likethey're adding the audio after.
Are you ready for this?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So this is you get interested in the most strange
thing.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
This is David Attenborough, of course, from.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
BBC Wildlife here we go.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Ready for this?
So different sounds.
You'll hear the chainsaw at theend.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It's a very convincing impersonation.
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Even the original is fooled, so impersonating other
animals right now other birds.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
He can imitate the calls of at least 20 different
species.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
He also, in his attempt to out sing his rivals,
incorporates other sounds thathe hears in the forest.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
That was a camera shutter.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Wait for the chainsaw .
Speaker 1 (05:33):
And again Camera shutter, here we go Hi.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
The sounds of foresters and their chainsaws
working nearby.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I mean, that's wild.
Did you hear the saw at the end?
Yes, it sounds like a chainsawwith trees falling in the
distance in a forest.
That's pretty insane.
I thought that was cool.
That's quite interesting.
I'm glad you guys aren'texcited about God's creation
over here.
That was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
No, I think it's funny because it's not the true
sound, so it's almost like theliar bird is.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
A liar L-A-I-R.
L-i-a-r Lying.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Pretty cool, though it's great.
I thought it was cool.
It's like a hyper-talentedparrot.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Exactly yeah, but a chainsaw sound.
I mean you've got to figure outyour vocal cords.
I didn't buy the chainsaw soundit sounded more like R2-D2.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
The saw, though the saw was more authentic.
The back and forth, thechainsaw, was a little.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I think he missed on that one.
Okay, you're a sports ball fan,pastor Bob.
A sports ball, you're a sportman.
I'm not sure, what all thatmeans, but so there were some
different sports analysts thatput together what are supposedly
the eight hardest positions toplay in the most popular us
sports.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
So this does not include, like, tennis or golf,
because there's no positions intennis or golf all right, so
you're thinking like footballand basketball and baseball, and
hockey us sports okay, so it'sgoing to be multiple positions
in each of those sports, becausethere aren't eight team sports
that are popular in the unitedstates, sure?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
correct.
So out of the top eight, thereare multiple positions in the
same sport.
Okay, so, um, let's just so youcan shout out, and you have to
give a number to them.
And I'm in the United States,sure, correct.
So out of the top eight, thereare multiple positions in the
same sport.
So let's, just so you can shoutout, and you have to give a
number to them, and I'm going totell you where they're on that
list.
So start guessing.
I've got the list right here,pulled up in front of me, and
you're trying to guess what are?
the eight hardest positions.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
They're going to say NFL quarterback, somewhere near
the top of that quarterback isnumber six.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Quarterback is number six.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
It's not the hardest um, I would say a pitcher in
baseball any specific type ofpitcher starting pitcher
actually starting pitchers, noton the top eight.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Well, they don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
A relief pitcher is how is a relief pitcher a harder
thing to do than a starting?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
pitcher.
You read the article.
Here we go, I don.
Relief pitcher was number threeand it says that, no matter
what circumstance, a reliefpitcher must be ready to produce
and deliver at all times,whether it is nursing a one-run
lead, keeping the game withinreach after the starting pitcher
handed the ball over to you,with multiple runners on base
and the game in the balance,nursing a comfortable lead yada
(08:25):
y nursing and comfortable lead.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
A relief pitcher comes in andgets one out, maybe two or three
.
A starting pitcher has to gomultiple innings, facing the
batting lineup multiple times.
Well, pastor bob, if onlyyou're a sports analyst, if only
okay, so you're two for two ongetting the top eight okay,
pitcher, and, and so I would saygoalie and hockey, perhaps
goalie in hockey is number fiveOkay.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah three for three on getting top eight Yep yep.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It's not really a hitter in baseball is really
hard, but I don't think they'reconsidering that a position
player.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So yeah, that's not a position player, I won't take
that one.
You have three lives, by theway, you've still got all three
lives.
You're three for three.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Wow, wow, come on sports guy.
Is one position in basketballharder than the other four
positions on the court?
Apparently Guard, I wouldassume Shooting guard, point
guard.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Which one are you going to go with?
Point guard?
Point guard's number eight.
Okay, point guard's numbereight.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Because you have to handle the ball a little more
than the shooting guard right.
Sure sure and still shoot likea shooting guard, Right.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So I'm going to go back to football and they're
probably going to say runningback or wide receiver.
They're going to look at theskill positions.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Actually, there's your first life gone.
Really, and I may take twolives from me.
Because he said two positionsthere, I'll take one for now.
Make sure you guess one at atime.
He's so neither.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Neither are topic.
How benevolent are you.
Neither one are top eightmiddle linebacker, then how
about that?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
middle linebacker is also not on the list.
So you have two lives going sothink there are plenty of
football positions.
I say plenty.
There's two more footballpositions on here.
Yeah, center football positions.
I say plenty, there's uh, twomore football positions on here.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, center center is not on the list.
What do these people know aboutsports?
One life.
Who are these?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
analysts that you are referring to.
I would say not that I wouldhave automatically known this
position being the top eighthardest, but so they're going to
say tackle, because they haveto guard the outside rusher
tackle left.
Tackle is number seven right.
Okay, so there's one footballposition.
It is a tick tock, but it'salso it's from I found the
actual article so that they'rereferring to um.
So this position has beendebated as one of the hardest
(10:36):
positions, if not the hardestposition in in football.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Um, it is a defensive position you want me to name
all of them no, try to think ofwhat.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
What people, people say is the.
It is a defensive position.
You want me to name all of them?
No, try to think of what peoplesay is the hardest.
Do you know that that's aposition.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I know nothing about sports ball.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Okay, I mean, you're talking free safety, you're
talking cornerback, you'retalking nose tackle.
Out of the three of those,cornerback is number two of
eight hardest positions to play.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
It says cornerback.
Okay, two of eight hardestpositions to play.
It says Cornerback.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You not only have to kind of be able to receive, but
also you've got to guard thereceiver.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
They play cornerback because they can't catch Well.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So that's what you might think, but it says it's
harder, more difficult yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
What other sport are we missing here?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
All right, so you have a soccer position.
I'm still letting you have onesoccer position.
They actually list a soccerposition they do.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I'm going to assume they don't know what they're
talking about in that either,but I would assume they're going
to say it is the centermidfielder they do not, then the
forward is what they'reprobably thinking.
They don't say goalkeeper.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Tell me they don't say goalkeeper.
Goalkeeper is number four.
Who?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
are these people?
They're sports analysts.
No, they're not, it's that'swhat it said I?
I want to.
Can I call a friend?
Do you want to call?
I want to call scott smithbecause I don't think he would
agree with this list, I thinkyou can call him if you want to.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
He's probably not at work right now.
He doesn't work until evening.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Go for it let's call him okay.
So right now you lost yourlives.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
We, we're going to keep going.
So one I disagree with thiswholeheartedly.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Well, you know you're a sports guy, you're not a
sports analyst, so here we go.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So you have number two is cornerback, you have.
Number three is relief pitcher,you have.
Number four is goalkeeper,number five is goalie at hockey.
Number six is quarterback.
You said left tackle, numberseven, and point guard, number
eight.
You've number eight.
You've just missed number one.
So far it's a baseball position, shortstop.
No, what's number one?
(12:31):
It says the most difficultposition catcher, catcher.
It says catcher, uh, let's seewhat it says.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I don't disagree.
The catcher is a difficultposition to play.
I'm not sure.
I would say it is the mostdifficult position in sport to
play.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
The catching position is by far the hardest position
in sports.
It says catchers have to squatfor nine innings trying to catch
baseballs that range from 75miles per hour with a high spin
and movement to pitches with 103miles per hour with movement as
well.
Not only that, there's a mentaland strategic aspect to
catching as well, as catchersusually help determine what
pitch should be a throne next.
So they all kind of like playcatchers I know a little bit
(13:02):
about play callers I know alittle bit about they also have
to turn around and hit thoseaforementioned pitches as well
as which as well, which is adifficult job in itself.
That's what it says.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Oh, I have great respect for catchers, so would
you put catchers number one?
I don't know that I would putthem number one.
I'd put them on the list.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I'm pretty high on the list or goalie in hockey
Goalie in hockey is it's on thelist?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's nuts.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So goalie in A goalkeeper in soccer shouldn't
be on the list.
No, professional goalkeeper no,really I asked.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
AI what the easiest positions are.
And number one said soccergoalkeeper, goalkeeper.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Well, AI needs to talk to these sports fans.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I'm surprised Punter would be.
That's what I'm saying Based ontheir list.
I'm surprised Punter isn't onthere.
Should a person?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Which isn't an easy thing to do, by the way Should a
person who does not havenecessarily the best of genes
not genes you wear, but genes.
Yeah, I got it, and they wanttheir kids to play.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Thanks for mansplaining that to me, you're
welcome.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I am a man and I was explaining.
If they want their kid to playprofessional football, would
they have a pretty good chanceif they just like, starting at
five years old, just teach themhow to punt, Give them punting
lessons.
Be the best punter, Because whodoes that Right?
I mean there might be kickinglessons but, specifically
punting.
Does anyone does?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
that Right?
I mean, there might be kickinglessons, but specifically
punting, does anyone do that?
Yeah, they do actually Really.
People specialize in it, forsure.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, I mean it is a gift.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
It is talented.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
That young though, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I would.
I would encourage parents notto pigeonhole their kids into
one sport early on.
To let them play multiplesports.
It'll help them overall Justfine.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
So all the lessons I've given you Fine, fine, fine,
fine.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I put the ball in his left hand and make him throw it
.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Pastor Bob, you're just bantering and bantering and
bantering.
Let's get on to the topic.
The topic is the secondcommandment.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I am the one who likes to banter on this group.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Sub heading is on graven images and golden calves,
are we idolizing our sportsidols?
I don't know I got to meet one.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You did.
You were telling me that storybefore we came on.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I wouldn't say first name basis, but we don't want to
talk about that.
Yes, so on the secondcommandment.
So, I wanted to look at a few ofthe different commandments and
just ask some questions.
Do they still apply?
What do they mean, you know?
If they do still apply, how dowe apply them to our lives?
Will they tell us about thenature of God?
So the second commandment,specifically, it's found in
Exodus 20, verses 4 through 6.
(15:35):
I'm going to go ahead and readit.
It says this you shall not makefor yourselves a carved image
or any likeness of anything thatis in heaven above, or that is
in the earth beneath, or that isin the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down to themor serve them, for I am the Lord
, your God, am a jealous Godvisiting the iniquity of the
(16:00):
fathers on the children, to thethird and fourth generation of
those who hate me, but showingsteadfast love to thousands of
those who love me and keep mycommandments.
The second commandment youshall not make for yourself a
carved image and specifically,bow down and serve it.
Pastor Bob, what is Godforbidding here?
(16:22):
Can we paint a picture or workwith clay?
Yes or no?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay.
Is there any certain type ofartistry that might be
prohibited?
Type of, not things that youcan do with art, but type of
Sculpturing, not Engineering?
I don't think that's the heartof the okay, the commandment
okay, so what is god forbiddinghere?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
putting anything above him in your devotion in
your life in your lovespecifically, maybe something
created specifically in thesecond commandment.
Yes, okay, yes, which buildsoff of the second commandment.
Yes, okay, yes, which buildsoff of the first commandment, of
course.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Created, which I mean everything is created other
than God, right.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I mean using the creation he has created and
creating it into some sort ofidol to worship it.
Yes, yeah, okay, sure so prettymuch distilling it down,
worshiping anything other thanGod.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I believe that's what it says.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah.
Then it says he's a jealous God.
How do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
He's rightly jealous.
Jealous isn't necessarily anegative thing, it seems like it
is in the Bible.
Well, we put our context onto it.
We think jealousy is a badthing because we typically are
jealous for the wrong reasons.
But when you are fullydeserving of devotion, when you
are completely right andcompletely pure and completely
(17:50):
holy and all glorious, youdeserve all man's praise.
My wife has the right to bejealous of my love towards her.
I don't have the right to giveany of my affections or love to
another woman because I'vededicated my life to her.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Would you say it like this your wife can be jealous
for you because you are hers,right?
Okay.
So then, if God has createdhumanity, he can rightly be
jealous of their attention andtheir affection, because
humanity was created by him, forhim, for him, okay.
So he's jealous, rightly so,because he's jealous for the
(18:31):
attention and affection of thatwhich he created or belongs to
him.
Okay, yes.
Whereas jealousy in the wrongway would be like man, that was
a really cool car I saw outside.
That does not belong to me.
That's a form of covetingCoveting Right, right, I'm
jealous that that guy has thatcar and I want it, so I covet it
.
Yeah, you're angry because you,you desire and do not have
(18:52):
James, chapter two or three,yeah, or four, I think it's
three.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Is it three?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
It's in there somewhere.
Yeah, not, not three.
Two is partiality, I think it'sthree.
Three sounds right.
Okay, it might be four, I can'tremember.
Okay, so idolatry is at theheart of the command.
Yes, it is.
Worship belongs to God and Godalone.
He is jealous for that worshipand demands it.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Okay, yes, okay, because he knows man's heart is
inclined towards it.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Man's heart is inclined towards it.
Okay, man's heart is inclinedtowards worship.
He's created us that way, torecognize that there is
something greater than us thatwe need to worship.
And man easily takes that andpoints it in the wrong direction
often.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
What is an example of idolatry in the Old Testament
where this was broken veryclearly?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Sure in the Old Testament where this was broken
very clearly.
Sure, there's many.
Probably the most well-known isthe golden calf that they
created.
Just 12 chapters later orsomething like that.
Yeah, when Moses goes up toreceive these Ten Commandments,
the people of Israel are going.
We need a God we can see toworship.
We need a God we can touch toworship, and so they melt down
their gold and create a goldencalf.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, in Exodus 32, moses is up on the mountain.
They're like did the guy leaveus?
And of course, moses isrelating to God on the mountain.
And so they turn to Aaron.
Hey, you know Moses, you'refriends with him.
You're like second commandright, we want to worship like
(20:25):
the Egyptians did.
The Egyptians had this big,great economy.
They had all these buildingsand they were just blossoming
and we're starving and we'refrustrated.
This does not look like theland of milk and honey.
It does not look that great.
Over here they're almost likenot them.
When they're hungry they needto do snickers in some ways,
because on this side of thewater they're acting like the
(20:48):
other side was better.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Right they're returning to what they had seen,
what they had seen modeledbefore them, the egyptians
worshiping multiple gods anddepicting them in in artwork, in
in statues and monuments, andthey would worship them.
That's what they saw played outbefore them all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So it seems like there in Exodus 32, I just
looked at it a minute ago seemslike they're shouting out we
want some kind of carved imageto serve gods.
I say gods, and then Moses putsome kind of placard on it or an
altar on it and says serve theLord Right.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And so Moses is saying like okay, worship this
thing in service to the Lord.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Say that again.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, exodus, chapter 32.
He says this to Aaron.
Let's see here, verse 2.
Aaron said to them take therings of gold that are in the
ears of your wives, your sonsand your daughters, which they
would have taken from theEgyptians as they plundered them
as God instructed them to.
So all the people took therings of gold that were in their
ears and brought them to Aaron.
Aaron fashioned a golden calf.
(21:53):
They said people, these areyour gods, israel, who brought
you up out of the land of Egypt.
Gods plural right of the landof Egypt, gods plural right.
But they're attributing gods tothe golden calf and saying
these gods took you out of theland.
When Aaron saw this, he builtan altar before and Aaron made a
proclamation and said tomorrowshall be a feast to the Lord.
So it's like we're going tohonor the Lord, aaron says, who
(22:18):
brought us up out of the land,by worshiping false gods and
specifically through the imageof a golden calf.
It's weird.
It's a weird scenario.
It is yeah, and so, however, Imean, the Lord had given them
the command.
You don't make images, youdon't serve images, you don't
worship images.
Even if you're saying, well,I'm worshiping the image, but
(22:39):
I'd want to serve you, lord,right?
You're saying, well, I'mworshiping the image, but I'd
want to serve you, lord, right?
The only mediator that we haveis the grace of God now seen in
the face of Jesus Christ, wherewe have access to God.
You don't use any sort of imagecarved, drawn, to give your
worship to the Lord.
You can now, of course, thisside of the cross, go to Christ
(23:01):
by the Spirit, to the Father,but they were.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Christ is the image of the Almighty God Again it's
their hearts crying out forsomething tangible, something
that they can see, hold andworship.
They can't see the Lord.
So this is what we have alreadyexperienced.
So let's do this and we seethis throughout their history 1
and 2 Chronicles.
1 and 2 Samuel.
1 and 2 Kings experience.
So let's do this and we seethis throughout their history
First and second chronicles.
First and second Samuel, firstand second Kings.
(23:26):
It is just a cycle of runningafter idols, god calling them
out for it, sending prophets andjudges and saying return,
repent.
There is condemnation for it,there's repentance.
And then they start the wholeprocess all over again, over and
over and over and over and overagain.
Um, we even see it when, um,the fiery serpents come into
(23:50):
their, into their camp, um, andMoses instructs them hey, create
this stick and hold it up inthe air with a serpent on it,
and if you look at the serpenton the stick, you'll be healed,
and if you don't, you won't.
And they do and they're healed.
Later on, they have to destroythat stick, because they started
(24:12):
worshiping the stick Instead ofworshiping God, which is again
where I think our hearts areinclined to things that are
tangible things.
We can see things we can see,things we can touch, relics from
the biblical time are stillthroughout Christianity
worshipped.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Why is that Is it, because trusting in an invisible
God requires faith, and faithis hard.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I think, at the end of the day, yes, trusting in
what we can't see.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Trusting in what we cannot see.
Abraham look at the stars.
That's an example of what Iwill do.
Yes, that's the trusting whatwe can't see.
Trusting in what we cannot seeAbraham look at the stars.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
That's an example of what I will do.
Right.
And he trusted the Lord and theLord counted it to him as
righteousness, Right.
And so you see, you know imagesthat come upon buildings and
people go, oh, that looks likethe image of Mary, and they
begin to worship at the image ofMary because it are a potato
chip that looks like you know,just crazy things, but the heart
is drawn to worship number one,and worship that which we can
see and hold.
And so there's just this pattern.
(25:11):
And it doesn't just have to beinanimate objects, it can be
people, it can be pastors, itcan be sports stars Any number
of things.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Those are all created beings.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
They are all created beings.
They're not graven images inthe midst that someone took a
piece of stone and carved it out, chiseled it out, or a piece of
wood and carved it out, but atthe end of the day, it's not God
, it is a created being that isdesigned to point us to God but
not point us to themselves.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, people and things make crummy gods oh
absolutely.
They all have expiration dates.
Yes, God does not.
Okay, so is this commandmentlike?
Does this still apply today?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
So Christ, he Ephesians chapter 2, end of
chapter 2, abolished the law andcommandments that you know.
We would probably say those arethe ceremonial laws.
But how are we to think Christfulfilled this in some sort of
way?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Oh, as you say, he didn't come to do away with the
law, he came to fulfill it.
Right, and you have the dietarylaws and you have the moral
laws, and Christ perfectlyfulfilled all these things.
He is the image of God.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
I think that's key.
He's the image of Almighty Godright.
He is perfection with feetright.
He's perfection with hands, andso when we're to know what God
looks like, well, we look at howthe Holy Spirit you know,
through Mary there's, jesusthere's.
God, right, I mean, I want tokeep my language Trinitarian
(26:45):
here, right, but he took onhuman flesh.
So if there could be an idol,right, that's deserving of
worship, jesus is he who shouldbe worshiped.
He's the image of Almighty God.
We worship Jesus.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Sure, but he's not an idol that we worship.
He is God.
He is God in the flesh, correct, correct, 100%, 100% and an
eternal being part of the triuneGodhead who has always been.
He just took on flesh.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Correct.
So what I'm trying to say isall these idols that were
created by man, they like, justcomparing basically a piece of
metal to Jesus himself.
Right, Jesus does not fail you.
A piece of metal will rightSure and any sort of thing that
we can create.
(27:38):
Well, the God-man was notcreated, right, he was composed
of flesh, but he was God in theflesh.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Romans 1 helps us.
You know, we move our eyes fromthe creator to the creation and
in so doing we suppress thetruth and begin to worship that
which God created not thecreator.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
How do we worship God ?
We look at Jesus.
We give our praise and worshipto the Son of God.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Who said if you've seen me, you've seen the Father.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I and the Father are one.
That's right.
Yeah, I think that's helpful,right.
So all that man tried toconstruct on its own came for us
, the God-man, the image ofAlmighty God, where the fullness
of God was pleased to dwell.
Right, we worship Jesus, god inthe flesh, who stands between
(28:31):
us and God and invites us intothe presence of Almighty God.
I think that's really helpful,right.
You can't create Jesus.
He's not created.
He is God himself.
So I just think there'ssomething there that I think we
should just sit back and say Goddid what even all of the people
in the Old Testament tried todo, right, yeah, yeah, sent his
(28:57):
son the only one worthy of yourworship.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And again, it all builds off the first commandment
you shall love the Lord, yourGod, with all your heart, mind,
soul and strength.
Well, anything that comes inthe way of you loving God with
everything you've got your heart, your mind, your soul and
strength is an idol, Whetherit's a physical idol or a
metaphorical idol, whatever itis, whatever draws your
attention, whatever draws yourdevotion, whatever draws you
(29:22):
away from pursuing Christ, thatbecomes your idol, and we have
to be very weary of those things.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think those are two really good words
to use.
Idolatry incorporates where youplace the majority and priority
of your attention and whatstirs ultimately your greatest
affection.
It's an attention and affectionright.
So created things like a phoneor created things like some
achievement can become an idolright.
(29:52):
Anything we can come up withcan become an idol.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
And that's not to say we shouldn't enjoy things.
God gave us these things forenjoyment.
That doesn't mean we can't befans of sports or arts or
pursuing a career.
It just means it needs to beproperly ordered in our lives.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, I think.
Two questions to ask.
Is this an idol in my life?
Number one does this steal myattention and affection for the
Lord?
Does this steal my attentionand affection for the Lord.
And then number two, if thiswas taken from me am I just
devastated and lost without it?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Do I find more joy in it than I do in my relationship
with Christ?
That's good.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Okay, so here's a random question to throw in at
the end of this podcast.
So over the years there havebeen many different ways to
create things to remind us ofJesus' work to remind us of the
words of God in the Bible, toremind us of God himself In the
(30:52):
church.
Oftentimes we have crosses.
Those are created things, right.
Sometimes we'll have picturesof Jesus, maybe in our office or
in other buildings, maybe inour homes.
Those are created things,created heavenly things.
The Sistine Chapel,michelangelo, God himself.
(31:13):
I think that's the painting ofhis finger reaching man, his
finger reaching man.
During Christmas time we havenativity sets Jesus, god in the
flesh, created.
How do we think of these things.
I say that because there aresome in church history who've
kind of pushed back on hey, weshouldn't have those things.
(31:35):
Or maybe they make adistinction between God should
not be pictured, because he isinvisible, but Jesus is the
image of God.
He was visible.
People could see him.
If there was cameras, theycould have taken a picture of
him.
If someone sat him down on achair and had a canvas in front
of him, they could have paintedhim.
And so it's okay to havepictures and images of Jesus, so
(31:56):
long as we, of course, don'tworship that image.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
We worship the Jesus of the Bible, as he's revealed
in the Bible Sure, and I thinkthe majority of the things
you've just mentioned werecreated in order to be a tool to
tell the story or to remind usof what happened in the Bible
that God has revealed.
Right, so ancient cathedrals inEurope that have these frescoes,
that paint these pictures youmentioned the Sistine Chapel
(32:25):
there's.
All of these things were doneprior to print.
They were done prior to,obviously, television and
pictures and those things, andthey were done as tools to tell
the story, so that people couldpoint to the picture on the wall
and say this is, let me tellyou, the story.
It was intended to be that way,didn't always stay that way,
(32:47):
and that which was created forgood again got turned into
something that became somethingthat was idolized.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, good intentions can still become bad ideas.
Sure.
Okay, sure yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
And your distinction between creating image of God,
who is spirit and we cannot see.
We don't know what he lookslike.
He does not have flesh andblood, like we do, versus
creating an image of Christ who.
We don't know what Christlooked like, sure.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
But, yet he is, but he did take on flesh he took on
flesh.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
He took on the form of a human.
He did take on flesh.
He took on flesh.
He took on the form of a human.
So is there a distinctionbetween trying to draw a picture
of God and drawing a picture ofJesus?
I don't know that.
I would make that distinction.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, okay, well, any other thoughts?
I probably want to walk back afew of my statements earlier,
just to make sure I did not saythat Jesus is an idol.
Idols are fashioned by man.
But Jesus is the image ofAlmighty God.
Any images of ours compare orcannot compare, fail at
comparison, and we worship theSon of God, the image of God
(33:54):
which is Jesus, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I still take issue with your so-called sports
analyst in their list.
I'm bitter.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
So what would be the hardest position?
No, no, no, hold on, no, holdon.
So, mr Analyst Bob, seniorAnalyst, senior Pastor, senior
Analyst, sports guy, sports ballyeah, baseball is one of your
favorite sports.
Yeah, soccer is your favoritesport, that's the one I've
played the most.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Baseball is your second favorite sport Only
because my boys play it orplayed it.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Well, what's your second favorite sport?
Cricket.
What's your second favoritesport?
I don't know that.
I rank them actually Okay.
What's your second favoritesport?
I, really Okay.
So what would you say is thehardest position in each sport?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Let's go, I would just say a professional hockey
player.
I don't care what position itis.
Amaze me, those guys are men.
The athletic ability, thehand-eye coordination, the body
control, the cardio, the legstrength.
The animal instincts, all ofthat and having to make
(35:00):
decisions.
I'm amazed by hockey players.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
So I would put them at a level they got to be high.
Yeah, I don't disagree that acatcher has to have amazing
skills, but there's otherpositions as well, okay, In
baseball hardest position,shortstop Pitcher, first baseman
or catcher I would say pitcher,catcher yeah, to be able to do
(35:27):
what those guys do with abaseball.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
But then I would also add hitting.
Hitting a baseball coming atyou at 100 miles an hour is
Impossible, it's almostimpossible.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, that's the thing, though it's not
technically a position, becausethey all have to do it.
Okay, impossible, it's almostimpossible.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, that's the thing, though it's not
technically a position, becausethey all correct okay hardest
position and would you still saygoalie?
In hockey they don't move asmuch.
Yeah, they don't, and and youknow they've got so much gear on
these days, but still, yeah,it's tough, I mean, and that
that puck's coming at you whenyou're getting screened, it's,
it's tough, but I I don't knowthat I would elevate the
goalkeeper over the rest of thepositions in hockey.
They're all just impressiveSoccer, midfielder or forward.
It depends on, honestly, itdepends on the structure of the
(36:08):
team and how it's played.
Usually your center back oryour center midfielder are your
two strongest players.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Okay, center back is just like the middle defender.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, but he kind of serves almost as a quarterback.
Again, it depends on formations.
Okay, basketball, probablypoint guard.
Still, I'm not a basketball guy, so Probably point guard Maybe.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Do they get the ball the most?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
They control the game the most, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
They probably shoot near.
I would say shooting guardmight be more difficult, but
they shoot probably near thesame amount as a quarterback
would Maybe.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I'm not a basketball guy so.
I can't speak with greatauthority there.
Football, would you still sayquarterback, quarterback.
They have to know so much.
They have to know everybodyelse's role, they have to know
everybody else's position.
They have to be able to, youknow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
They've got to have the most pressure on them.
But it also depends on whatyou're running.
If you're just running a veeroption all the time, you got to
be athletic.
But you know, I just think Ididn't mean to get us back into
this conversation.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
By the way, I was just being clever at the end of
the conversation we'll closewith this.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I do think pressure has to weigh into this and I
don't know that they weighed inpressure.
Yeah, um, because a cornerbackcan make, has to run a lot, has
to make really hard to you know,know, whatever plays, but a
quarterback, everybody'swatching that guy all the time.
Right, he has to change hismind in the middle of a, you
(37:28):
know, a play.
So I don't know, of course,quarterbacks got to be up there.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Cornerback is tough because you're on an Island Most
of the time.
You don't always get back upand it's a very reactionary
position, Very reaction you haveto respond quickly to.
You have to read the hips andthe feet of the wide receiver,
their speed, what they're doing.
There's a lot that goes into it, but you could say that about
every position on a footballfield.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, a receiver has a route, a cornerbacks.
Trying to figure out that routeand not let the receiver catch.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Right so that's.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
That's tricky, and run as fast as the receiver.
Yeah, all right.
Well, thanks for listening in.
Hopefully this was a helpfulpodcast.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Kara.
Was it helpful?
It was pretty helpful.
I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
The sports conversation part or the
idolatry part.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
The idolatry part.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And the sports.
That was fun.
Do you watch?
Speaker 3 (38:16):
any sports I can't say I do oh okay, does Jay yeah
what does he watch football?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
football and stuff, yeah does he like any like weird
sports, like sports peopledon't normally watch cricket not
that I know cornhole that'salright disc golf he likes that
too okay, well, thanks forlistening in.
We hope you enjoyed your timehere.
We sure did, and we will seeyou later bye, have a.
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