Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
you know, I've never asked you what you think about
the intro music, bob.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I don't think I've ever heard it all the way
through.
We usually interrupt it beforeit goes too far, but it's just
on a loop anyway.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Right, I can go back to it just on a loop.
Anyway, right, I can go back toit, it's kind of groovy.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What era would that?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
kind of music come from, uh, late 80s, no, no,
early 90s, 70s, 70s ish, whenwas it?
Gives me kind of almost like aback to the future vibe okay is
that right?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
am I wrong?
Like 1950s, back to the Future.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
No, before he goes back Before he goes back Like
what you'd listen to in the car.
What's the car that he has?
I can't remember what's the carcalled.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
DeLorean.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
DeLorean.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
thank you, I feel like it's something you'd kind
of vibe, to Like a Huey Lewis inthe News, kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
No, but I don't know Something when like techno, just
kind of barely kind of comesinto the scene.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Techno dance music.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
That'd be 80s, early 80s, yeah, more like 90s.
Techno dance was more like 90s.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Okay, early 90s.
You said it sounded more 70s.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, but to me it sounds yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, do you like it?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It's awesome.
Do you like it?
I love it.
That's he actually listens toit.
I do so.
I go to sleep to this everynight.
I love like the, the kind ofthe pounding bass.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Maybe it's because it reminds me of, like the six
million dollar man what's that?
I generally don't know it's aTV show from the 70s.
Ah, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
How's he a $6 million man?
Is he a boxer?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
No, he was a.
If I remember right, he was apilot and he crashed and then
they put him back together andmade him stronger, better than
ever, Gave him a bionic eye andbionic arms and legs.
You should look it up.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
All right.
Well, I have a meeting that Ido with some college students
once a week, and the firstquestion we ask is what's
popping, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
in life and the news Trent's back by the way, welcome
back yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I'm popping Trent's popping today, come on.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
He's back.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
He's popping off queen.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Don't like that, but in the news the Pope has passed.
Yes, there's a search for a newpope.
That should be, interesting.
What's popping in my life isI've been sent the same meme
from about four different people, which is when Catholics are
looking for a new pope, there'ssmoke that comes out of the
building, of course, as is theprocess.
When pastors install a newpastor, there's smoke coming
(02:39):
from the grill.
When Baptists install a newpastor, smoke that meat.
Are you going to be the newpope?
No, the smoker Baptist.
When Baptist installing apastor, smoke that meat, smoking
both.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Are you going to be the new Pope?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
No, I can't technically, but I did learn
something about this.
There are four that seem to bemost looked at right now, but I
did learn that any.
I don't know how true this is,but any Catholic can technically
serve as Pope, as long asyou're Catholic.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Is that your next move after Redeemer City?
No, it's not Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And that's another podcast.
But any Catholic cantechnically be Pope.
Now they won't be, but theycould be.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I didn't know that.
Isn't it typically those thatare in the group of cardinals
that are voting for the new Pope?
Is that?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
technically the magisterium.
I don't in the group ofcardinals that are voting for
the new pope, is thattechnically the magisterium?
I don't know.
I don't know who.
Yeah, I don't know exactlywhere the magisterium ends and
that group, I don't know, but Idon't know that they have to be.
I think they probably havealways been Technically have
been, but I don't think theyhave to be.
I don't know.
I think basically, it's likeyou have to be a male and you
have to be a Catholic.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Can a woman be Pope?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I don't believe, so Give them time.
Yeah, yeah, anyways.
So hey, I have a fact for you,pastor Bob.
I thought it would be kind offun.
I always struggle with whatfact to come up with.
I actually don't alwaysstruggle.
I've been struggling becauseall of the crazy fact websites
that I look up for these, I'veused them all, or they're just
(04:08):
not very good.
We've noticed, thanks.
So I thought a good idea wouldbe to give the origin of a
unique phrase Like cool yourjets, where did that come from?
So I've got raise a toastWithout looking at the show
notes.
What does it come from?
I know this one.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It's not fair.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Share it, do you know ?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I think it comes from .
No, you already read the shownotes.
What does it come from?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
no-transcript.
I read it from one place, thenI kept reading it.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
They used to literally put a piece of toast
in their wine or whatever it was.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So one said because it dulled the spicy flavor.
Another said that it added moreflavor because it was seasoned
toast.
So apparently in history therehas always been some sort of
like raising of a glass.
Initially it was in Greekculture to like honor the gods.
And in Roman culture it becamevery common to put toast in your
(05:08):
glass, some sort of seasoningto the glass, to the meat or
whatever, and the toast would bein it and they'd raise it, the
toast, and then it became morehonoring to people in the room
rather than gods.
So, raising a toast, raise yoursoggy toast.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
So you're literally raising toast.
Soggy toast Raise your soggytoast.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So you're literally raising toast, soggy toast.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
They would call it something, was it called.
It was called like saga orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Oh, I didn't know that I wasn't there at the time.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I know I'm old, but I wasn't there at the time.
Yeah, I read about it thismorning.
Well, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
That's a cool fact phrase that you know the history
of I bet you know one, Bob, I'msure I do, but put on the spot
I have to think through it nowCool your jets?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Isn't that one just?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Cooling the engines after blowing.
Yeah, alright, kara, while wedo the, would you Rather look up
a few unique phrases and justask us if we know the origins?
You rather look up a few uniquephrases and just ask us if we
know the origins behind them?
Okay, all right, I've got a.
Would you rather?
Question of the day, pastor Bob.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
All right, what I'd rather.
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I'm going to drink my coffee because it's too hot
still.
Would you rather be given $1million?
We're back to these.
I steal them from anotherpodcast.
Would you rather be given $1million or be given 25 million
If you hit a bullseye with only25 tries?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
playing darts, I assume Okay.
Yeah, I've got no confidence inmy dart throwing abilities and
nor do I have any confidence inmy dumb luck.
So I definitely go 1 million,just take it and be excited,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, same, there's no shot.
I am going to get even close toa bullseye, and if I did, you
know what?
I'd be pretty sad, but I'll bevery surprised.
There's a certain show wherethere's a bullseye needed and
some friendly competition.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
That is such a good part of that show.
That's a good scene.
Yeah, that's a good scene.
Yeah, that's a good.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Oh wow, that's a show not to be named right yeah,
yeah, but it was, yeah, that wasa good scene.
Yeah, are you?
Are you good at darts?
No in your billiard pool hall,bar days no okay, still no.
Did you have a dartboard inyour house growing up?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
no okay you know who did, who j Jaden.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
He did have a dartboard.
Is he good at darts?
Is he good, probably.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
He could be better.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I say that because the night before our wedding he
actually lost at a game of dartsand then with his friend they
had to do something.
I won't say what that was, butmaybe I'll tell you guys
afterwards.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Did you have a dartboard growing up, not
growing up?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
we had one in college okay, like in your dorm room or
the house we rented, yeah yeah,that poor wall was just just
holes over the wall swiss cheeseI I had.
We had a dartboard growing up.
We had it in like our basement.
Um, I don't know why we had it,we never played it, it was just
hanging up there.
Uh, I say we never played it.
I did a few times.
That's where my drum set wasgrowing up.
I remember one time it wasoddly close to the basement door
(08:12):
so you walk in and you'repretty close to the dartboard,
so if someone's playing dartsthere's a chance you might get
spiked.
Well, that happened one time.
My sister was walking down thebasement door I was throwing a
dart and it went through likepart of her finger.
It didn't go all the waythrough or anything, but like it
went into and out of like theskin of her finger.
Uh, she bled a lot but she wasokay so I did she hold it
(08:35):
against you?
I'm assuming you did it onpurpose um, you know, every once
in a while, your sibling justneeds to get a dart to the hand
and you know, I think it.
It could have been one of thosetimes where you know what so
passive aggressive payback, soyou're so passive aggressive.
You know it was not intentionalso did you ever play?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
you know, they tried to make it more safe and they
came up with this electronicform of darts.
And then you threw a plasticdart at this plastic board with
have all these little holes init, and then it kept score, but
the darts never went in.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, that made no sense I had played that.
It never went in.
No, what did they think thatwas going to work?
Apparently they did.
I mean, bought it.
I mean, how, how difficult isit to get a bullseye?
How difficult is it, similarly,to get into a itty bitty little
hole that barely fits the dart?
Just big enough so it like goesin, but stays.
Small enough so it stays up?
(09:27):
Ridiculous, alright, what doyou got for us?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Bite the bullet.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, what's the origin of bite the bullet?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
In wartime, soldiers would bite on bullets during
surgeries, without anesthesia,to cope with the pain.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
You're nodding, like you knew that.
I knew that one.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No, yes, of course that's self-explanatory actually
.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Okay, hold on hold on , no that one I knew.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Don't give me an explanation until we see if
Pastor.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Bob knows it.
Okay, okay, break the ice.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Break the ice.
Does that have to do withfishing Ice?
Does that have?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
to do with fishing Ice fishing, yeah, that's what I
would think.
You'd have to break the ice toget the thing started.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Is it ice fishing it comes from ships, called
icebreakers, that break up icein waterways to allow for safe
paths.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I don't think so.
I can see that you don't thinkso.
Who knows where it came from?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Okay, All right.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Let the cat out of the bag.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I think you should keep the bag Now.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
All right, this one and one more.
What is that one?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
In old marketplaces farmers might sell pigs in bags,
but dishonest ones wouldsubstitute a cat.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
How do you get that confused?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
The bag.
The cat jumped out and thetrick was maybe it was a baby
pig, a little piglet.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, but one's round and one's not so round Cats can
be round.
Yeah, but their fur looks round, but their body is not.
I mean, it's softer.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I don't know why you would put creatures in bags
anyway.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Well, I don't wait for cats.
Alright, one more R and bagsanyway.
But Well, I don't wait for cats, all right one more Riding
shotgun.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Oh, that one's easy.
That one's from stagecoachdates when they literally had a
guy on the side of the driverwith a shotgun to protect the
cargo, that's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I wouldn't say I didn't know stagecoach days, but
I figured protection.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I didn't know that, but that's actually really cool,
is that?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
what it is.
Does it say stagecoach days?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It says in the wild west.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Wild west.
A guard sat next to thestagecoach driver yeah.
She's a shotgun for protectionagainst bandits.
This came to mind because instaff meeting on Monday I said
to move on something.
I said let's pull the pluginstead of let's pull the
trigger, right, and I thought itwas right when it came out and
then it was obviously not let'spull the plug.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Pull the plug is an expression, it just wasn't the
one you meant to say.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
That's so funny.
Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, allright, hey.
Topic of the day Pastor Bob.
All right, I want to pursue thepastorate.
What steps should they walkthrough?
(12:12):
So we're titling this episodeOn the Path to being a Pastor.
Here's the question what shouldsomeone do if they begin to
have an interest in pastoralministry?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
That's a good topic, that's cool.
I would first clarify this.
I believe all Christians arecalled.
You don't have a question?
No, it's a good question.
Let me clarify.
I believe all Christians arecalled to ministry, right?
So, regardless of whether youfeel called to be a pastor,
we've all been called by God tobe on mission, be in ministry
for him.
There are some, however, thathave been set apart to serve the
(12:42):
church in vocational ministry.
Okay, vocational meaningMeaning occupation, so your
ministry equals your occupation.
You're getting paid to do yourministry, and there are certain
folks that are set apart by Godand the church in order to
fulfill that vocational ministry.
So I want everybody tounderstand we're all called,
(13:03):
regardless of whether you're apastor or not.
We're all called to do ministry.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Would you say that calling is synonymous with the
calling to follow Jesus?
Yes, okay.
So all being called, the callto be a follower of Jesus, is
the call to be a minister of.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Jesus, Be a disciple, be a minister, be a missionary
all of that.
It all goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Let's have some fun today on the podcast.
Okay so, minister, you saidwe're all called to minister.
Why have churches in the pastcalled the pastor the minister?
Small country churches oftensay we have a minister.
Our minister's name is PastorBob Block.
Is that just confusing the role?
Is that confusing verbiage?
I think it's just verbiage.
Yeah it's just verbiage.
Yeah, it's chosen verbiage.
Is it helpful to say well, weall are ministers.
(13:43):
Here there's one pastor who'salso ministering by pastoring.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I think, as long as you're clear in what you say and
what you mean, words havemeaning.
When I was growing up in thechurch, there was a pastor and
then there were ministers thatserved alongside the pastor a
children's minister, minister, aworship minister sure, we've
kind of changed thatnomenclature over the years.
Um, I, I think there's a role,position of minister, and then
(14:14):
there's everyone is called to doministry yeah, the word
ministry means service, service.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, is it necessarily an office?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Minister, no yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, the word deacon , in its verb form, to deacon,
is the same word of to minister.
Jesus came to, not to beministered to, but to minister.
He came to Diakonos Diakonos,that's good To serve, not be
served, right Okay?
So Deaconos Deaconos, that'sgood To serve, not be served,
(14:49):
right Okay.
So, that being the case, let'slook particularly at the calling
to pastoral ministry.
Now, I do want to, becausewe're having fun today.
I'm going to ask anotherquestion.
You said there are some who maybe called to receive their
living wage along with theirministry or because of their
ministry.
Should pastors be paid?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
According to Scripture, they should.
Yes, do you want me to backthat up?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, we're having fun, so I'm just going to keep
asking questions.
Hey everybody, we're back.
We had a little bit oftechnical difficulty there, but
we are back and we're talkingabout pastors being financially
paid for ministry.
You're bringing up a text ofScripture to kind of back that
up.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, we were talking about some that are
bivocational, that have to earntheir salaries elsewhere.
So we're looking in the NewTestament at passages, and in 1
Timothy it says that those thatpreach the Word and are diligent
in doing so are worthy of adouble honor.
So I think that that's not onlybeing honored for what they do,
I think it is also being afinancial payment.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
In the text, widows are in mind right before.
It talks about elders, talksabout elders and the way to
honor widows is to give them anoffering to support them.
And then it goes right intoelders or pastors and talks
about how you can honor them byalso giving.
There's an Old Testamentprecedent.
(16:14):
We see the priests and theLevites would receive the tithe
because they did not get aportion of the land to support
them.
And then in the New Testament,another passage is Paul telling
the Corinthian church he couldhave asked for money from them
for the ministry that heprovided pastorally, even though
he was a missionary.
And he quotes Old Testamentpassages and says basically,
(16:36):
those who minister for a livingshould be able to get a wage.
Don't muzzle an ox when hetreads the grain.
Okay, so I derailed us in thatwhole conversation so I want to
go back to the original question.
So someone feels called topastoral ministry, to the office
of a pastor outlined in 1Timothy 2, and that office being
(17:01):
seen in the early church aswell as churches today.
They feel called to thatparticular office, they see
their pastor, they want toemulate his example, they feel a
unique calling to that role inthe future.
What's next?
So what's that process?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So I think you've alluded to the first step in the
process, which is this thepersonal aspiration that they're
feeling a desire, a feeling, acall to serve the church in such
a capacity.
And that's not just a one timeat a camp.
Oh, I think maybe that'ssomething I would enjoy doing.
I don't think it's somethingwhere you say, well, that would
(17:31):
be a good job to have.
I think that is something wherethere's just an inner assurance
of the Holy Spirit that is justunshakable and a certain sense
of call that just won't go awayover a period of time.
So it's an aspiration to a role, it's an aspiration to a
ministry, it's a recognitionthat that ministry is a
(17:54):
privilege and not an entitlement.
So, yeah, I think it startswith the aspiration to serve.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It might be tested.
So if you feel like in a campsetting I feel called to
ministry, it might be good tokind of let the camp, high as it
has been often called, wear offa little bit.
Do you still have thataspiration?
Yeah, Right.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
In my own personal experience I know that I began
to feel a call in my life whileI was in middle school at a camp
at Ridgecrest, didn't doanything about it, just kind of
acknowledged that the, the, thesense of call was there, uh, but
it was over the period of nextseveral years that God really
kind of didn't let that go away.
(18:34):
It was unshakable.
Um and then, as as we'll getinto some other steps here, it
was affirmed in some otherconversations with people.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Sometimes people might explain a call to pastoral
ministry using Old Testamenttexts and when they do that,
they often look at the prophets.
Is that helpful?
And here's why I ask that,because the prophets have these
unique ecstatic kind of extraexperiences that the average
(19:07):
person would not have.
Mm-hmm, you know Isaiah seeingseraphim and it cooling his
tongue.
So I think sometimes when welook back to the Old Testament
to see those calls, we feel aneed to try to explain the call
to pastoral ministry similarly,like I saw something in the sky
or everything aligned.
(19:28):
Is that the case?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
think I would say for most people, no, I think it's
not an aha moment.
I think it's a process.
I think it is God working anddeveloping a love for the church
, a love for the lost, over aperiod of time in your heart and
then kind of funneling thattowards a call that he affirms
(19:52):
in multiple ways through hisword, through his spirit,
through his church.
So no, I don't think mostpeople have the aha moment oh,
I'm going to be a pastor, that'swhat I want to do.
I think it's a period of timethat it takes.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
A new passion birthed in the heart, maybe a heart
provoked for that kind ofministry.
We use that word aspiration,which I think is the most
helpful word, a lot of timeswhen you look at the prophets we
see calling In the NewTestament we see aspiration.
We see that actually in 1Timothy 31.
It gives the qualifications ofa future pastor.
It says this saying istrustworthy If anyone aspires to
(20:28):
the office of the overseer orthe pastor or the elder, he
desires a noble task.
So those two words are usedright Desire, aspiration.
So aspiration can be a goodthing.
So you said, maybe some time todevelop, making sure that's
genuine, that aspiration.
I wrote down desire withhumility and the right motive.
That's tested over time, ofcourse.
(20:49):
So this is not man.
I have a really cool idea.
I want to do this and then youjust jump to it.
Right, this is seasonedaspiration.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, the text says if anyone aspires to it, not
everyone should aspire to it.
Sure Right, so not everybodyshould.
And if you don't feel a call topastoral ministry, it's not.
You're not a lesser believer,you're not lesser called, you're
just not called to a particularrole.
But it is good to aspire tothis, but not everybody needs to
aspire to it Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
First category personal aspiration.
What do I do immediately after?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Maybe not category next category, yet I don't know,
but I would start to move thenext category, because I think,
if I aspire to it, the secondthing for me in the process is
am I qualified for it?
Okay, so, moving fromaspiration to it.
The second thing for me in theprocess is am I qualified for it
?
So, moving from aspiration toqualification.
So if I aspire to it but Idon't qualify for it, then the
aspiration isn't from God.
It may be personal, it may bepride, it may be something, but
(21:48):
um.
So I think we have to look atscripture to say, okay, what are
the qualifications for one whomight serve as a pastor?
Those are clearly laid out infirst Timothy three, um.
Which are the qualificationsfor one who might serve as a
pastor?
Those are clearly laid out infirst Timothy three, um, which
is the text that you've alreadystarted for us.
Um, and I would say um in that.
I would, I would delineate thatinto character, because most of
(22:08):
first Corinthians or firstTimothy three is about character
.
It's about the character of theperson, um, are they
Christ-like?
Are they doing what God hascalled them to do?
The second is competence.
Do you have the ability, do youhave the spiritual giftedness
that God would gift someone inthe capacity of a pastor or a
teacher.
And then is there a calling, soam I.
(22:29):
Am I qualified with characterand competence?
If I have the character but Idon't have the competence, I'm
going to struggle.
If I have competence but Idon't have the character, I'm
going to struggle.
And if I have character andcompetence but I'm not called,
I'm going to struggle.
So am I qualified for the rolethat I feel God calling me to?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
A lot of those qualifications, like you said,
are characteristics, right?
Right, they're looking at how'syour life, can you lead, and
who do you love?
Do you love?
Well, I looked at a few bookshere that have talked about
calling and they ask questionslike are you godly, how's your
home?
Can you teach, can you shepherd, do you love the lost?
(23:07):
And then you see that text in 1Timothy 3 kind of ends with
how's your reputation, evenamong the lost?
Right, that matters, because ina lot of ways you're the
representative of the church tothe culture, right?
Yeah, good, now I think you hiton something there.
(23:27):
There has been a common sayingwhen it comes to the call to
salvation that God does not callthe qualified, that he
qualifies the called.
And this is absolutely true.
We just looked at a text lastnight in Colossians that said
Jesus qualifies us to be in thepresence of the Father by his
own word.
But I want to be careful here,because when we look to the
(23:51):
position of pastoral ministry orthe office of pastor here,
because when we look to theposition of pastoral ministry or
the office of pastor, it is notnecessarily true that you're
just qualified because you gotcalled to the ministry.
In fact, the affirmation ofgenuine calling is the
qualification for the role.
Does that make sense?
So if you are not yet qualified, you are not yet called to
(24:14):
serve in that particular role?
Now there might be a calling onyour life to get quote-unquote
qualified, generally speaking,but I don't know that you're
called to that role at all ifyou're not yet qualified,
because the qualificationsthemselves are not really unique
to pastoral ministry.
They're qualifications for allChristians, aside from able to
(24:35):
teach and aside from not being ayoung convert, right?
So the pastor is to be therepresentative of these
characteristics for that church,the model representative, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
An exemplary model.
Yeah, which is redundant, butan exemplary person following
those characteristics.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Do you aspire to the role?
Are you qualified for the role?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Maybe.
What's the next?
Yeah, so ask aspiration,qualification.
Is the character there, isthere competency there, is there
spiritual giftedness?
There is the calling there.
And then I would sayaffirmation would be the third
step.
It has.
Has anyone affirmed this callin your life?
Has anybody said, hey, have youever thought about becoming a
(25:20):
pastor?
I see potential in you.
Those called to vocationalministry have a heart to serve
and a competency in serving, andthat's clear to other people.
They'll see it and the churchshould affirm that in you.
That's good and the churchshould affirm that in you.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's good.
Yeah, if you go to your pastorand he's just like I don't see
it, it might take some time.
If you go to your parents andthey say I don't see it and
they're believers who care foryour soul, who are good members
of their local church, andthey're like I don't see it, the
Lord may change their heart.
It may take some time.
So we started with personalaspiration 1 Timothy 3.1.
(25:59):
Then character qualification 1Timothy 3, going on through
verse 7.
And then church affirmation.
I think there is a text for this.
1 Timothy 5 talks about layingon of hands, right as it talks
about the elders, which is thetext we use a lot of times for
ordination, and it says bereally careful, being too quick
(26:20):
to lay on hands on a person, ona future elder, affirming their
calling.
And I think that's because whatit says, because some sins show
themselves over time.
Some sins show themselves overtime.
So, yeah, it says this is aslow process of the church
saying yes and amen.
We do feel like the Lord hascalled you to this.
(26:41):
We want to affirm that as youlook for opportunity, sure.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, sure, and from a practical standpoint this
looks like.
Is the church coming to youasking you to serve in
particular roles?
If you're in student ministryand you feel a call to pastoral
ministry and you still yourchurch still does a youth week,
you know where they assign thetasks or roles to certain.
Are they coming to you andsaying would you be the youth
(27:13):
pastor for the week?
Is there somebody that's askedyou to fill in a Sunday school
class, core group class orteaching in vacation Bible
school, and then come upafterwards and said man, I
really believe you have the giftof teaching, so there's some
practical things that take placein this.
Is there a minister on staffsaying why don't you come work
alongside me for a little whileand kind of learn some things?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah.
So is it possible then thatthere could be, let's say, a I'm
going to pick a random age a 35year old man inside of the
church who's been asked to leadin teaching groups or something
like that and asked quite a bit,and then he begins to say,
maybe I do have a desire, andthe question provokes the
(27:54):
external question, provokes theinternal question, and then goes
back to personal aspiration,then character qualification.
So it could, in some ways, thewhole process that we're
describing could be started bysome affirmation.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It very well could be .
It could be started by peoplewho care about you, who have
spiritual insight, looking atyou and noting spiritual
giftedness, and saying have youever considered?
And that might start somethinginside of you that says, well,
no, I haven't, but maybe Ishould.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So in this category, would you put, in the
affirmation category potentiallythe ordination.
So it's the church saying yesand amen.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Now, ultimately, yes, I would add that later.
But yes, ultimately you needthe church to affirm the
decision in a formal setting, ina formal way.
We are setting you apart forthis role, so you can put it
here if you want.
I wouldn't put it here yet.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
You can wait until there's actually a role to be in
.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Okay, personal aspiration, character
qualification, churchaffirmation I love the uns.
You added one I didn't put onhere, which I think is very
helpful Education.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Education, yeah, and I'm not necessarily talking
about formal education.
I think once you havedetermined that God is leading
you to be a pastor, he's callingyou and that's been affirmed
through your local church, thenI think there should be a
process of you educatingyourself on what does that look
like?
What does that practically looklike?
(29:24):
How can I best prepare myselfto do that?
How can I stoke the spiritualgifts that are in me?
And so I would say there'sthree areas there.
There's experiential.
So if you feel called topastoral ministry, then don't
wait to be called to be a pastorto start serving.
Serve any way.
You can serve anywhere.
You can serve and serve andserve until God points you in
(29:45):
the right direction, Right, Um?
So experiential just get inthere and serve, serve people,
learn what it's like to leadpeople, learn what it's like to
serve people.
Secondly, I would say there'spractical education, so where
the local church comes alongsideyou and says we want to help
you in a very practical way,whether that's through an
internship or a mentorship, aresidency, let you kind of
(30:09):
behind the scenes.
Come to the meetings, let's talkabout what ministry looks like.
Let's well, how does this work?
What is it so?
Um, there's a experiential toserve.
There's practical internship,internship, mentorship, um, and
then there's theologicaltraining.
Uh, I think if you're going tobe a pastor and you're going to
(30:30):
teach and preach the word, youneed to know the word, you need
to be trained in it, to study it, and so I think there's formal
theological training that shouldtake place Now.
That I don't think has to be inplace before your ordination,
before you're actually startingto serve, but I do think it's
part of the overall process ofbecoming the pastor that you're
(30:53):
called to be.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I think one of the most helpful things about
seminary is not just the Greekbehind the English in your New
Testament, but helping makecategories for the importance of
some doctrines, the history ofinterpretation, even
(31:15):
categorizing.
Okay, how do I think about theimportance of this versus the
importance of this?
I think that's one of the mostimportant things, so that we
don't make mountains out of molehills, we don't make every hill
one to die on and we don'tbecome so theologically in an
echo chamber.
(31:35):
I think it's good to kind of gothrough the challenges that
come alongside seminary.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I think your assurance of God's call on your
life to do pastoral ministry isand your theological education
is your foundation.
So your personal relationshipwith God that has led you to
serve him in the local church,and then your theological
education, which is systematicin nature.
That's your foundation.
From there you add thepractical.
You add okay, how does thisshow itself in life?
(32:05):
How do I teach this?
How do I love people?
How do I baptize somebody?
How do I minister in a hospital?
How do I do a funeral?
How do I do a wedding?
All of those things arepractical that you don't always
learn in seminary.
You would think you would learnall that in seminary.
You don't always do that.
It just gives you thetheological basis on which you
build your ministry.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
So a person has now aspired to the role.
So a person has now aspired tothe role.
They have character that backsit up.
They are affirmed by members intheir church.
Along with their pastor, theyhave looked up residencies,
internships.
Maybe they've went to seminary.
What's next?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think then the final step would be formal
installation, where the churchsets you apart, much like the
church that enacts and sayswe've recognized these people
have gifts and we're going tosend them out, laid hands on
them and send them out or employthem.
Yeah, so I would say the finalstep is for the church to do
that formal step of installation, um, formally being set apart
(33:07):
by a church, which probably willinclude some kind of ordination
council you mentionedordination earlier Just the
setting apart to say werecognize this is God's gift in
your life, this is God's call onyour life, we affirm that and
we want you to use that.
So, whether that's with us orsomewhere else, so it's a church
doing this formal installationinto ministry.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
That's good.
So there's the role, and thenthe servant.
Mm-hmm, yeah, it's good.
So there's the role, and thenthe servant.
So maybe someone's listening tothis and they're thinking maybe
that's me, we've kind of walkedthrough the path.
If they're in our own church,what would you say?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
first, let us know, yeah, I would say, continue to
pray about it.
I would say I always give theadvice to anybody who speaks to
me about this is, if you can doanything else and be satisfied,
that's what you're supposed todo.
If you can do any otheroccupation and be content, then
that's what you can do, and Godcan still use you in ministry in
(34:07):
that, you can still serve himin that.
But if this is just a, it justwon't go away.
You cannot be satisfied doinganything but serving God through
the local church, preaching andteaching his word.
Then pursue it.
And so I would say, if that'syou, then yeah, come talk to us.
Let us know that.
Um, we probably won't besurprised if you come and tell
(34:27):
us that.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, and I would say , even before you come and tell
us, just read over first Timothy3 and Titus 1.
Yeah, Because that is a sort offilter.
That's intended Becauseprobably one of the first things
we're going to do.
If you just come talk to usfirst, that's probably the first
thing we're going to do, forsure, perfect.
(34:48):
Well, this may be one of ourshorter episodes.
I say that it says 19 minuteshere.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
We did record a whole section before that.
The banter and Kara's beenreally quiet today, I think.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I'm just ashamed.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
We did not let the cat out of the bag of how we
lost power.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Okay, my bad, that wasn't, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
No one would have known.
No one would have known.
You told on yourself no onewould have known.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Oh my bad, I can just cut this out too.
You're quiet because you loveyour pastors.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
You're thankful for their leadership.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
That's right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I'm just resonating in it, you know yes.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, well, we're thankful for members like you,
mistakes and all Imperfectthough we may be, oh goodness.
Well, thanks for listening in.
We hope this episode's beenhelpful and maybe you do feel a
calling or an aspiration toministry.
Let us know.
We'd love to hear about it.
You can't see it, but Bob'svibing.
(35:44):
Oh yeah, thank you.
you know, I've never asked you what you think about
the intro music, bob.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I don't think I've ever heard it all the way
through.
We usually interrupt it beforeit goes too far, but it's just
on a loop anyway.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Right, I can go back to it just on a loop.
Anyway, right, I can go back toit, it's kind of groovy.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What era would that?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
kind of music come from, uh, late 80s, no, no,
early 90s, 70s, 70s ish, whenwas it?
Gives me kind of almost like aback to the future vibe okay is
that right?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
am I wrong?
Like 1950s, back to the Future.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
No, before he goes back Before he goes back Like
what you'd listen to in the car.
What's the car that he has?
I can't remember what's the carcalled.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
DeLorean.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
DeLorean.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
thank you, I feel like it's something you'd kind
of vibe, to Like a Huey Lewis inthe News, kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
No, but I don't know Something when like techno, just
kind of barely kind of comesinto the scene.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Techno dance music.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
That'd be 80s, early 80s, yeah, more like 90s.
Techno dance was more like 90s.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Okay, early 90s.
You said it sounded more 70s.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, but to me it sounds yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, do you like it?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It's awesome.
Do you like it?
I love it.
That's he actually listens toit.
I do so.
I go to sleep to this everynight.
I love like the, the kind ofthe pounding bass.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Maybe it's because it reminds me of, like the six
million dollar man what's that?
I generally don't know it's aTV show from the 70s.
Ah, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
How's he a $6 million man?
Is he a boxer?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
No, he was a.
If I remember right, he was apilot and he crashed and then
they put him back together andmade him stronger, better than
ever, Gave him a bionic eye andbionic arms and legs.
You should look it up.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
All right.
Well, I have a meeting that Ido with some college students
once a week, and the firstquestion we ask is what's
popping, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
in life and the news Trent's back by the way, welcome
back yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I'm popping Trent's popping today, come on.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
He's back.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
He's popping off queen.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Don't like that, but in the news the Pope has passed.
Yes, there's a search for a newpope.
That should be, interesting.
What's popping in my life isI've been sent the same meme
from about four different people, which is when Catholics are
looking for a new pope, there'ssmoke that comes out of the
building, of course, as is theprocess.
When pastors install a newpastor, there's smoke coming
(02:39):
from the grill.
When Baptists install a newpastor, smoke that meat.
Are you going to be the newpope?
No, the smoker Baptist.
When Baptist installing apastor, smoke that meat, smoking
both.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Are you going to be the new Pope?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
No, I can't technically, but I did learn
something about this.
There are four that seem to bemost looked at right now, but I
did learn that any.
I don't know how true this is,but any Catholic can technically
serve as Pope, as long asyou're Catholic.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Is that your next move after Redeemer City?
No, it's not Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And that's another podcast.
But any Catholic cantechnically be Pope.
Now they won't be, but theycould be.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I didn't know that.
Isn't it typically those thatare in the group of cardinals
that are voting for the new Pope?
Is that?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
technically the magisterium.
I don't in the group ofcardinals that are voting for
the new pope, is thattechnically the magisterium?
I don't know.
I don't know who.
Yeah, I don't know exactlywhere the magisterium ends and
that group, I don't know, but Idon't know that they have to be.
I think they probably havealways been Technically have
been, but I don't think theyhave to be.
I don't know.
I think basically, it's likeyou have to be a male and you
have to be a Catholic.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Can a woman be Pope?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I don't believe, so Give them time.
Yeah, yeah, anyways.
So hey, I have a fact for you,pastor Bob.
I thought it would be kind offun.
I always struggle with whatfact to come up with.
I actually don't alwaysstruggle.
I've been struggling becauseall of the crazy fact websites
that I look up for these, I'veused them all, or they're just
(04:08):
not very good.
We've noticed, thanks.
So I thought a good idea wouldbe to give the origin of a
unique phrase Like cool yourjets, where did that come from?
So I've got raise a toastWithout looking at the show
notes.
What does it come from?
I know this one.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It's not fair.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Share it, do you know ?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I think it comes from .
No, you already read the shownotes.
What does it come from?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
no-transcript.
I read it from one place, thenI kept reading it.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
They used to literally put a piece of toast
in their wine or whatever it was.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So one said because it dulled the spicy flavor.
Another said that it added moreflavor because it was seasoned
toast.
So apparently in history therehas always been some sort of
like raising of a glass.
Initially it was in Greekculture to like honor the gods.
And in Roman culture it becamevery common to put toast in your
(05:08):
glass, some sort of seasoningto the glass, to the meat or
whatever, and the toast would bein it and they'd raise it, the
toast, and then it became morehonoring to people in the room
rather than gods.
So, raising a toast, raise yoursoggy toast.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
So you're literally raising toast.
Soggy toast Raise your soggytoast.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So you're literally raising toast, soggy toast.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
They would call it something, was it called.
It was called like saga orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Oh, I didn't know that I wasn't there at the time.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I know I'm old, but I wasn't there at the time.
Yeah, I read about it thismorning.
Well, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
That's a cool fact phrase that you know the history
of I bet you know one, Bob, I'msure I do, but put on the spot
I have to think through it nowCool your jets?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Isn't that one just?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Cooling the engines after blowing.
Yeah, alright, kara, while wedo the, would you Rather look up
a few unique phrases and justask us if we know the origins?
You rather look up a few uniquephrases and just ask us if we
know the origins behind them?
Okay, all right, I've got a.
Would you rather?
Question of the day, pastor Bob.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
All right, what I'd rather.
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I'm going to drink my coffee because it's too hot
still.
Would you rather be given $1million?
We're back to these.
I steal them from anotherpodcast.
Would you rather be given $1million or be given 25 million
If you hit a bullseye with only25 tries?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
playing darts, I assume Okay.
Yeah, I've got no confidence inmy dart throwing abilities and
nor do I have any confidence inmy dumb luck.
So I definitely go 1 million,just take it and be excited,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, same, there's no shot.
I am going to get even close toa bullseye, and if I did, you
know what?
I'd be pretty sad, but I'll bevery surprised.
There's a certain show wherethere's a bullseye needed and
some friendly competition.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
That is such a good part of that show.
That's a good scene.
Yeah, that's a good scene.
Yeah, that's a good.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Oh wow, that's a show not to be named right yeah,
yeah, but it was, yeah, that wasa good scene.
Yeah, are you?
Are you good at darts?
No in your billiard pool hall,bar days no okay, still no.
Did you have a dartboard inyour house growing up?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
no okay you know who did, who j Jaden.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
He did have a dartboard.
Is he good at darts?
Is he good, probably.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
He could be better.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I say that because the night before our wedding he
actually lost at a game of dartsand then with his friend they
had to do something.
I won't say what that was, butmaybe I'll tell you guys
afterwards.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Did you have a dartboard growing up, not
growing up?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
we had one in college okay, like in your dorm room or
the house we rented, yeah yeah,that poor wall was just just
holes over the wall swiss cheeseI I had.
We had a dartboard growing up.
We had it in like our basement.
Um, I don't know why we had it,we never played it, it was just
hanging up there.
Uh, I say we never played it.
I did a few times.
That's where my drum set wasgrowing up.
I remember one time it wasoddly close to the basement door
(08:12):
so you walk in and you'repretty close to the dartboard,
so if someone's playing dartsthere's a chance you might get
spiked.
Well, that happened one time.
My sister was walking down thebasement door I was throwing a
dart and it went through likepart of her finger.
It didn't go all the waythrough or anything, but like it
went into and out of like theskin of her finger.
Uh, she bled a lot but she wasokay so I did she hold it
(08:35):
against you?
I'm assuming you did it onpurpose um, you know, every once
in a while, your sibling justneeds to get a dart to the hand
and you know, I think it.
It could have been one of thosetimes where you know what so
passive aggressive payback, soyou're so passive aggressive.
You know it was not intentionalso did you ever play?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
you know, they tried to make it more safe and they
came up with this electronicform of darts.
And then you threw a plasticdart at this plastic board with
have all these little holes init, and then it kept score, but
the darts never went in.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, that made no sense I had played that.
It never went in.
No, what did they think thatwas going to work?
Apparently they did.
I mean, bought it.
I mean, how, how difficult isit to get a bullseye?
How difficult is it, similarly,to get into a itty bitty little
hole that barely fits the dart?
Just big enough so it like goesin, but stays.
Small enough so it stays up?
(09:27):
Ridiculous, alright, what doyou got for us?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Bite the bullet.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, what's the origin of bite the bullet?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
In wartime, soldiers would bite on bullets during
surgeries, without anesthesia,to cope with the pain.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
You're nodding, like you knew that.
I knew that one.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No, yes, of course that's self-explanatory actually
.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Okay, hold on hold on , no that one I knew.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Don't give me an explanation until we see if
Pastor.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Bob knows it.
Okay, okay, break the ice.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Break the ice.
Does that have to do withfishing Ice?
Does that have?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
to do with fishing Ice fishing, yeah, that's what I
would think.
You'd have to break the ice toget the thing started.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Is it ice fishing it comes from ships, called
icebreakers, that break up icein waterways to allow for safe
paths.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I don't think so.
I can see that you don't thinkso.
Who knows where it came from?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Okay, All right.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Let the cat out of the bag.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I think you should keep the bag Now.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
All right, this one and one more.
What is that one?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
In old marketplaces farmers might sell pigs in bags,
but dishonest ones wouldsubstitute a cat.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
How do you get that confused?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
The bag.
The cat jumped out and thetrick was maybe it was a baby
pig, a little piglet.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, but one's round and one's not so round Cats can
be round.
Yeah, but their fur looks round, but their body is not.
I mean, it's softer.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I don't know why you would put creatures in bags
anyway.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Well, I don't wait for cats.
Alright, one more R and bagsanyway.
But Well, I don't wait for cats, all right one more Riding
shotgun.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Oh, that one's easy.
That one's from stagecoachdates when they literally had a
guy on the side of the driverwith a shotgun to protect the
cargo, that's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I wouldn't say I didn't know stagecoach days, but
I figured protection.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I didn't know that, but that's actually really cool,
is that?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
what it is.
Does it say stagecoach days?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It says in the wild west.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Wild west.
A guard sat next to thestagecoach driver yeah.
She's a shotgun for protectionagainst bandits.
This came to mind because instaff meeting on Monday I said
to move on something.
I said let's pull the pluginstead of let's pull the
trigger, right, and I thought itwas right when it came out and
then it was obviously not let'spull the plug.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Pull the plug is an expression, it just wasn't the
one you meant to say.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
That's so funny.
Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, allright, hey.
Topic of the day Pastor Bob.
All right, I want to pursue thepastorate.
What steps should they walkthrough?
(12:12):
So we're titling this episodeOn the Path to being a Pastor.
Here's the question what shouldsomeone do if they begin to
have an interest in pastoralministry?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
That's a good topic, that's cool.
I would first clarify this.
I believe all Christians arecalled.
You don't have a question?
No, it's a good question.
Let me clarify.
I believe all Christians arecalled to ministry, right?
So, regardless of whether youfeel called to be a pastor,
we've all been called by God tobe on mission, be in ministry
for him.
There are some, however, thathave been set apart to serve the
(12:42):
church in vocational ministry.
Okay, vocational meaningMeaning occupation, so your
ministry equals your occupation.
You're getting paid to do yourministry, and there are certain
folks that are set apart by Godand the church in order to
fulfill that vocational ministry.
So I want everybody tounderstand we're all called,
(13:03):
regardless of whether you're apastor or not.
We're all called to do ministry.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Would you say that calling is synonymous with the
calling to follow Jesus?
Yes, okay.
So all being called, the callto be a follower of Jesus, is
the call to be a minister of.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Jesus, Be a disciple, be a minister, be a missionary
all of that.
It all goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Let's have some fun today on the podcast.
Okay so, minister, you saidwe're all called to minister.
Why have churches in the pastcalled the pastor the minister?
Small country churches oftensay we have a minister.
Our minister's name is PastorBob Block.
Is that just confusing the role?
Is that confusing verbiage?
I think it's just verbiage.
Yeah it's just verbiage.
Yeah, it's chosen verbiage.
Is it helpful to say well, weall are ministers.
(13:43):
Here there's one pastor who'salso ministering by pastoring.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I think, as long as you're clear in what you say and
what you mean, words havemeaning.
When I was growing up in thechurch, there was a pastor and
then there were ministers thatserved alongside the pastor a
children's minister, minister, aworship minister sure, we've
kind of changed thatnomenclature over the years.
Um, I, I think there's a role,position of minister, and then
(14:14):
there's everyone is called to doministry yeah, the word
ministry means service, service.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, is it necessarily an office?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Minister, no yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, the word deacon , in its verb form, to deacon,
is the same word of to minister.
Jesus came to, not to beministered to, but to minister.
He came to Diakonos Diakonos,that's good To serve, not be
served, right Okay?
So Deaconos Deaconos, that'sgood To serve, not be served,
(14:49):
right Okay.
So, that being the case, let'slook particularly at the calling
to pastoral ministry.
Now, I do want to, becausewe're having fun today.
I'm going to ask anotherquestion.
You said there are some who maybe called to receive their
living wage along with theirministry or because of their
ministry.
Should pastors be paid?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
According to Scripture, they should.
Yes, do you want me to backthat up?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, we're having fun, so I'm just going to keep
asking questions.
Hey everybody, we're back.
We had a little bit oftechnical difficulty there, but
we are back and we're talkingabout pastors being financially
paid for ministry.
You're bringing up a text ofScripture to kind of back that
up.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, we were talking about some that are
bivocational, that have to earntheir salaries elsewhere.
So we're looking in the NewTestament at passages, and in 1
Timothy it says that those thatpreach the Word and are diligent
in doing so are worthy of adouble honor.
So I think that that's not onlybeing honored for what they do,
I think it is also being afinancial payment.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
In the text, widows are in mind right before.
It talks about elders, talksabout elders and the way to
honor widows is to give them anoffering to support them.
And then it goes right intoelders or pastors and talks
about how you can honor them byalso giving.
There's an Old Testamentprecedent.
(16:14):
We see the priests and theLevites would receive the tithe
because they did not get aportion of the land to support
them.
And then in the New Testament,another passage is Paul telling
the Corinthian church he couldhave asked for money from them
for the ministry that heprovided pastorally, even though
he was a missionary.
And he quotes Old Testamentpassages and says basically,
(16:36):
those who minister for a livingshould be able to get a wage.
Don't muzzle an ox when hetreads the grain.
Okay, so I derailed us in thatwhole conversation so I want to
go back to the original question.
So someone feels called topastoral ministry, to the office
of a pastor outlined in 1Timothy 2, and that office being
(17:01):
seen in the early church aswell as churches today.
They feel called to thatparticular office, they see
their pastor, they want toemulate his example, they feel a
unique calling to that role inthe future.
What's next?
So what's that process?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So I think you've alluded to the first step in the
process, which is this thepersonal aspiration that they're
feeling a desire, a feeling, acall to serve the church in such
a capacity.
And that's not just a one timeat a camp.
Oh, I think maybe that'ssomething I would enjoy doing.
I don't think it's somethingwhere you say, well, that would
(17:31):
be a good job to have.
I think that is something wherethere's just an inner assurance
of the Holy Spirit that is justunshakable and a certain sense
of call that just won't go awayover a period of time.
So it's an aspiration to a role, it's an aspiration to a
ministry, it's a recognitionthat that ministry is a
(17:54):
privilege and not an entitlement.
So, yeah, I think it startswith the aspiration to serve.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It might be tested.
So if you feel like in a campsetting I feel called to
ministry, it might be good tokind of let the camp, high as it
has been often called, wear offa little bit.
Do you still have thataspiration?
Yeah, Right.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
In my own personal experience I know that I began
to feel a call in my life whileI was in middle school at a camp
at Ridgecrest, didn't doanything about it, just kind of
acknowledged that the, the, thesense of call was there, uh, but
it was over the period of nextseveral years that God really
kind of didn't let that go away.
(18:34):
It was unshakable.
Um and then, as as we'll getinto some other steps here, it
was affirmed in some otherconversations with people.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Sometimes people might explain a call to pastoral
ministry using Old Testamenttexts and when they do that,
they often look at the prophets.
Is that helpful?
And here's why I ask that,because the prophets have these
unique ecstatic kind of extraexperiences that the average
(19:07):
person would not have.
Mm-hmm, you know Isaiah seeingseraphim and it cooling his
tongue.
So I think sometimes when welook back to the Old Testament
to see those calls, we feel aneed to try to explain the call
to pastoral ministry similarly,like I saw something in the sky
or everything aligned.
(19:28):
Is that the case?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
think I would say for most people, no, I think it's
not an aha moment.
I think it's a process.
I think it is God working anddeveloping a love for the church
, a love for the lost, over aperiod of time in your heart and
then kind of funneling thattowards a call that he affirms
(19:52):
in multiple ways through hisword, through his spirit,
through his church.
So no, I don't think mostpeople have the aha moment oh,
I'm going to be a pastor, that'swhat I want to do.
I think it's a period of timethat it takes.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
A new passion birthed in the heart, maybe a heart
provoked for that kind ofministry.
We use that word aspiration,which I think is the most
helpful word, a lot of timeswhen you look at the prophets we
see calling In the NewTestament we see aspiration.
We see that actually in 1Timothy 31.
It gives the qualifications ofa future pastor.
It says this saying istrustworthy If anyone aspires to
(20:28):
the office of the overseer orthe pastor or the elder, he
desires a noble task.
So those two words are usedright Desire, aspiration.
So aspiration can be a goodthing.
So you said, maybe some time todevelop, making sure that's
genuine, that aspiration.
I wrote down desire withhumility and the right motive.
That's tested over time, ofcourse.
(20:49):
So this is not man.
I have a really cool idea.
I want to do this and then youjust jump to it.
Right, this is seasonedaspiration.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, the text says if anyone aspires to it, not
everyone should aspire to it.
Sure Right, so not everybodyshould.
And if you don't feel a call topastoral ministry, it's not.
You're not a lesser believer,you're not lesser called, you're
just not called to a particularrole.
But it is good to aspire tothis, but not everybody needs to
aspire to it Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
First category personal aspiration.
What do I do immediately after?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Maybe not category next category, yet I don't know,
but I would start to move thenext category, because I think,
if I aspire to it, the secondthing for me in the process is
am I qualified for it?
Okay, so, moving fromaspiration to it.
The second thing for me in theprocess is am I qualified for it
?
So, moving from aspiration toqualification.
So if I aspire to it but Idon't qualify for it, then the
aspiration isn't from God.
It may be personal, it may bepride, it may be something, but
(21:48):
um.
So I think we have to look atscripture to say, okay, what are
the qualifications for one whomight serve as a pastor?
Those are clearly laid out infirst Timothy three, um.
Which are the qualificationsfor one who might serve as a
pastor?
Those are clearly laid out infirst Timothy three, um, which
is the text that you've alreadystarted for us.
Um, and I would say um in that.
I would, I would delineate thatinto character, because most of
(22:08):
first Corinthians or firstTimothy three is about character
.
It's about the character of theperson, um, are they
Christ-like?
Are they doing what God hascalled them to do?
The second is competence.
Do you have the ability, do youhave the spiritual giftedness
that God would gift someone inthe capacity of a pastor or a
teacher.
And then is there a calling, soam I.
(22:29):
Am I qualified with characterand competence?
If I have the character but Idon't have the competence, I'm
going to struggle.
If I have competence but Idon't have the character, I'm
going to struggle.
And if I have character andcompetence but I'm not called,
I'm going to struggle.
So am I qualified for the rolethat I feel God calling me to?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
A lot of those qualifications, like you said,
are characteristics, right?
Right, they're looking at how'syour life, can you lead, and
who do you love?
Do you love?
Well, I looked at a few bookshere that have talked about
calling and they ask questionslike are you godly, how's your
home?
Can you teach, can you shepherd, do you love the lost?
(23:07):
And then you see that text in 1Timothy 3 kind of ends with
how's your reputation, evenamong the lost?
Right, that matters, because ina lot of ways you're the
representative of the church tothe culture, right?
Yeah, good, now I think you hiton something there.
(23:27):
There has been a common sayingwhen it comes to the call to
salvation that God does not callthe qualified, that he
qualifies the called.
And this is absolutely true.
We just looked at a text lastnight in Colossians that said
Jesus qualifies us to be in thepresence of the Father by his
own word.
But I want to be careful here,because when we look to the
(23:51):
position of pastoral ministry orthe office of pastor here,
because when we look to theposition of pastoral ministry or
the office of pastor, it is notnecessarily true that you're
just qualified because you gotcalled to the ministry.
In fact, the affirmation ofgenuine calling is the
qualification for the role.
Does that make sense?
So if you are not yet qualified, you are not yet called to
(24:14):
serve in that particular role?
Now there might be a calling onyour life to get quote-unquote
qualified, generally speaking,but I don't know that you're
called to that role at all ifyou're not yet qualified,
because the qualificationsthemselves are not really unique
to pastoral ministry.
They're qualifications for allChristians, aside from able to
(24:35):
teach and aside from not being ayoung convert, right?
So the pastor is to be therepresentative of these
characteristics for that church,the model representative, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
An exemplary model.
Yeah, which is redundant, butan exemplary person following
those characteristics.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Do you aspire to the role?
Are you qualified for the role?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Maybe.
What's the next?
Yeah, so ask aspiration,qualification.
Is the character there, isthere competency there, is there
spiritual giftedness?
There is the calling there.
And then I would sayaffirmation would be the third
step.
It has.
Has anyone affirmed this callin your life?
Has anybody said, hey, have youever thought about becoming a
(25:20):
pastor?
I see potential in you.
Those called to vocationalministry have a heart to serve
and a competency in serving, andthat's clear to other people.
They'll see it and the churchshould affirm that in you.
That's good and the churchshould affirm that in you.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's good.
Yeah, if you go to your pastorand he's just like I don't see
it, it might take some time.
If you go to your parents andthey say I don't see it and
they're believers who care foryour soul, who are good members
of their local church, andthey're like I don't see it, the
Lord may change their heart.
It may take some time.
So we started with personalaspiration 1 Timothy 3.1.
(25:59):
Then character qualification 1Timothy 3, going on through
verse 7.
And then church affirmation.
I think there is a text for this.
1 Timothy 5 talks about layingon of hands, right as it talks
about the elders, which is thetext we use a lot of times for
ordination, and it says bereally careful, being too quick
(26:20):
to lay on hands on a person, ona future elder, affirming their
calling.
And I think that's because whatit says, because some sins show
themselves over time.
Some sins show themselves overtime.
So, yeah, it says this is aslow process of the church
saying yes and amen.
We do feel like the Lord hascalled you to this.
(26:41):
We want to affirm that as youlook for opportunity, sure.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, sure, and from a practical standpoint this
looks like.
Is the church coming to youasking you to serve in
particular roles?
If you're in student ministryand you feel a call to pastoral
ministry and you still yourchurch still does a youth week,
you know where they assign thetasks or roles to certain.
Are they coming to you andsaying would you be the youth
(27:13):
pastor for the week?
Is there somebody that's askedyou to fill in a Sunday school
class, core group class orteaching in vacation Bible
school, and then come upafterwards and said man, I
really believe you have the giftof teaching, so there's some
practical things that take placein this.
Is there a minister on staffsaying why don't you come work
alongside me for a little whileand kind of learn some things?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah.
So is it possible then thatthere could be, let's say, a I'm
going to pick a random age a 35year old man inside of the
church who's been asked to leadin teaching groups or something
like that and asked quite a bit,and then he begins to say,
maybe I do have a desire, andthe question provokes the
(27:54):
external question, provokes theinternal question, and then goes
back to personal aspiration,then character qualification.
So it could, in some ways, thewhole process that we're
describing could be started bysome affirmation.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It very well could be .
It could be started by peoplewho care about you, who have
spiritual insight, looking atyou and noting spiritual
giftedness, and saying have youever considered?
And that might start somethinginside of you that says, well,
no, I haven't, but maybe Ishould.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So in this category, would you put, in the
affirmation category potentiallythe ordination.
So it's the church saying yesand amen.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Now, ultimately, yes, I would add that later.
But yes, ultimately you needthe church to affirm the
decision in a formal setting, ina formal way.
We are setting you apart forthis role, so you can put it
here if you want.
I wouldn't put it here yet.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
You can wait until there's actually a role to be in
.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Okay, personal aspiration, character
qualification, churchaffirmation I love the uns.
You added one I didn't put onhere, which I think is very
helpful Education.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Education, yeah, and I'm not necessarily talking
about formal education.
I think once you havedetermined that God is leading
you to be a pastor, he's callingyou and that's been affirmed
through your local church, thenI think there should be a
process of you educatingyourself on what does that look
like?
What does that practically looklike?
(29:24):
How can I best prepare myselfto do that?
How can I stoke the spiritualgifts that are in me?
And so I would say there'sthree areas there.
There's experiential.
So if you feel called topastoral ministry, then don't
wait to be called to be a pastorto start serving.
Serve any way.
You can serve anywhere.
You can serve and serve andserve until God points you in
(29:45):
the right direction, Right, Um?
So experiential just get inthere and serve, serve people,
learn what it's like to leadpeople, learn what it's like to
serve people.
Secondly, I would say there'spractical education, so where
the local church comes alongsideyou and says we want to help
you in a very practical way,whether that's through an
internship or a mentorship, aresidency, let you kind of
(30:09):
behind the scenes.
Come to the meetings, let's talkabout what ministry looks like.
Let's well, how does this work?
What is it so?
Um, there's a experiential toserve.
There's practical internship,internship, mentorship, um, and
then there's theologicaltraining.
Uh, I think if you're going tobe a pastor and you're going to
(30:30):
teach and preach the word, youneed to know the word, you need
to be trained in it, to study it, and so I think there's formal
theological training that shouldtake place Now.
That I don't think has to be inplace before your ordination,
before you're actually startingto serve, but I do think it's
part of the overall process ofbecoming the pastor that you're
(30:53):
called to be.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I think one of the most helpful things about
seminary is not just the Greekbehind the English in your New
Testament, but helping makecategories for the importance of
some doctrines, the history ofinterpretation, even
(31:15):
categorizing.
Okay, how do I think about theimportance of this versus the
importance of this?
I think that's one of the mostimportant things, so that we
don't make mountains out of molehills, we don't make every hill
one to die on and we don'tbecome so theologically in an
echo chamber.
(31:35):
I think it's good to kind of gothrough the challenges that
come alongside seminary.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I think your assurance of God's call on your
life to do pastoral ministry isand your theological education
is your foundation.
So your personal relationshipwith God that has led you to
serve him in the local church,and then your theological
education, which is systematicin nature.
That's your foundation.
From there you add thepractical.
You add okay, how does thisshow itself in life?
(32:05):
How do I teach this?
How do I love people?
How do I baptize somebody?
How do I minister in a hospital?
How do I do a funeral?
How do I do a wedding?
All of those things arepractical that you don't always
learn in seminary.
You would think you would learnall that in seminary.
You don't always do that.
It just gives you thetheological basis on which you
build your ministry.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
So a person has now aspired to the role.
So a person has now aspired tothe role.
They have character that backsit up.
They are affirmed by members intheir church.
Along with their pastor, theyhave looked up residencies,
internships.
Maybe they've went to seminary.
What's next?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think then the final step would be formal
installation, where the churchsets you apart, much like the
church that enacts and sayswe've recognized these people
have gifts and we're going tosend them out, laid hands on
them and send them out or employthem.
Yeah, so I would say the finalstep is for the church to do
that formal step of installation, um, formally being set apart
(33:07):
by a church, which probably willinclude some kind of ordination
council you mentionedordination earlier Just the
setting apart to say werecognize this is God's gift in
your life, this is God's call onyour life, we affirm that and
we want you to use that.
So, whether that's with us orsomewhere else, so it's a church
doing this formal installationinto ministry.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
That's good.
So there's the role, and thenthe servant.
Mm-hmm, yeah, it's good.
So there's the role, and thenthe servant.
So maybe someone's listening tothis and they're thinking maybe
that's me, we've kind of walkedthrough the path.
If they're in our own church,what would you say?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
first, let us know, yeah, I would say, continue to
pray about it.
I would say I always give theadvice to anybody who speaks to
me about this is, if you can doanything else and be satisfied,
that's what you're supposed todo.
If you can do any otheroccupation and be content, then
that's what you can do, and Godcan still use you in ministry in
(34:07):
that, you can still serve himin that.
But if this is just a, it justwon't go away.
You cannot be satisfied doinganything but serving God through
the local church, preaching andteaching his word.
Then pursue it.
And so I would say, if that'syou, then yeah, come talk to us.
Let us know that.
Um, we probably won't besurprised if you come and tell
(34:27):
us that.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, and I would say , even before you come and tell
us, just read over first Timothy3 and Titus 1.
Yeah, Because that is a sort offilter.
That's intended Becauseprobably one of the first things
we're going to do.
If you just come talk to usfirst, that's probably the first
thing we're going to do, forsure, perfect.
(34:48):
Well, this may be one of ourshorter episodes.
I say that it says 19 minuteshere.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
We did record a whole section before that.
The banter and Kara's beenreally quiet today, I think.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I'm just ashamed.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
We did not let the cat out of the bag of how we
lost power.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Okay, my bad, that wasn't, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
No one would have known.
No one would have known.
You told on yourself no onewould have known.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Oh my bad, I can just cut this out too.
You're quiet because you loveyour pastors.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
You're thankful for their leadership.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
That's right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I'm just resonating in it, you know yes.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, well, we're thankful for members like you,
mistakes and all Imperfectthough we may be, oh goodness.
Well, thanks for listening in.
We hope this episode's beenhelpful and maybe you do feel a
calling or an aspiration toministry.
Let us know.
We'd love to hear about it.
You can't see it, but Bob'svibing.
(35:44):
Oh yeah, thank you.
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