October 28, 2025 • 35 mins
We trace Dr. Manuela Powell’s journey from Brazilian cancer surgeon to U.S. trainee, mom, coach, and entrepreneur, and show how questioning your thoughts can protect and strengthen brain health. We connect identity shifts, rest, and resilience to create a practical path toward an unshakable mind.
• moving from Brazil to the US to requalify
• caring for a father with a rare cancer during USMLE prep
• landing at Sloan Kettering then rejecting a second residency
• sabbatical in Hawaii and redefining identity beyond surgeon
• motherhood, inner patriarchy and reclaiming agency
• stress, immunity and nuanced links to cancer risk
• shifting from perfectionism to experimentation in business
• practical mindset tools to handle failure and ambiguity
• one core principle: don’t believe everything you think
• resources and where to connect with Manuela
If you would be so just take a minute and leave a review and send this podcast to a friend, I would greatly appreciate it.
By the way, if you're a health and wellness expert looking for a pivot in your own business, check out doctorspivot.com to have Dr. Manuella assist you.
Note: This podcast episode is sponsored by Dr. Rewire's Brain DNA test. Learn more at Unshakeablebrain.ai. If you're a practitioner and you're interested in adding this at-home lab test to your toolkit, go to Unshakeablebrain.ai/expert.
I, Dr. Kylie, no longer work with clients in any endeavor. If you'd like more support for your health, I recommend working with the physicians at the EllieMD telemedicine platform. To get started, go to https://elliemd.com/?bp=drkylie. For health and wellness experts looking to provide this resource to your clients, get started at https://elliemd.com/join-us/?bp=drkylie.
Thank you for joining the Unshakeable Brain community. Dr. Kylie
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Going through medical school once is hard
enough, let alone doing it twicebecause you moved countries and
the new country doesn't acceptyour old license.
I am Dr.
Kylie and welcome to UnshakableBrain, your guide to an
unshakable brain.
My mission is simple to help yougrow a brain that's stronger,
(00:23):
sharper, and unshakable in everypart of your life.
Each week we explore thescience, stories, and strategies
to make that happen.
This episode is brought to youby Dr.
Rewire's brain DNA test.
Find out more atunshakablebrain.ai.
All right, let's dive in.
With me today is Dr.
Manuela Powell.
(00:44):
She is originally from Braziland moved to the US.
And we're gonna go through herstory today in a lens of how
every decision she made impactedher brain health.
And because of that, impactedher little boys along the line.
So welcome on, Dr.
You have me calling you Manuelaor Dr.
(01:05):
Pat?
Yeah, Manuela is good.
Manuela is okay.
All right, walk us through lifein Brazil.
My stepmother-in-law is actuallyBrazilian.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Well, first of all, hi, andthank you for having me.
I love chatting with you, as youknow.
So this is gonna be fun.
So yeah, I am from Rio, which isan awesome place to visit.
I was not a fan of living therevery much.
So I always had that idea tomove, at least to try out and
to, you know, come and do someresearch or some training in the
(01:38):
US.
And eventually that thathappened in 2008.
And as you Americanpractitioners know, you need to
do the USMLE to practice in theUS, which is not the case in
Brazil.
So I went through medicalschool, a residency and a
fellowship in Brazil.
I was a cancer surgeon, so I didgeneral surgery and then
surgical oncology and practicedfor five years.
(02:01):
And so I wasn't attending forfive years and then decided to
move here.
So I went to Washington, DC totake, you know, the USMLE and
all that stuff.
And as soon as I moved, my dadgot diagnosed with cancer, with
a very rare tumor to a Clatskintumor.
I was like, oh man, I gotta bethe the son, the father of a
(02:22):
cancer surgeon to have me.
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
Yeah, like you are a cancer surgeon, aren't you?
unknown (02:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Yeah, exactly.
So I was able to bring him overto Hopkins, where absolutely out
of coincidence, the the biggestworld, the world specialist in
that surgery was.
So just there was like, how didthis even happen?
So I'm trying, you know, I'mstudying to the USMLE, but also
going through all that.
It was really tough.
(02:47):
He had so many like nineprocedures before he could even
have the surgery, which was 14hours and all of that stuff, and
then chemo and radiation.
So much, yeah.
So that was a lot, but you know,he had a tumor that usually the
survival is six months and helived for 22.
(03:08):
So we counted that as a win.
And I really spent a lot of thattime with him since he came over
to the US.
And while he was doing hisradiation or no chemo, he did in
Brazil.
So I traveled a lot there.
So just that was a lot on thesystem, especially you know,
you're trying to learn these newthings because I went to medical
school.
(03:28):
My first year was 92, and thenobviously USMLA step one is by
basic science, and the basicscience I needed to be tested on
did not exist in '92.
I had to relearn molecularbiology.
Thank God for YouTube at thatpoint, because that's how I
learned it.
And I did very well on the test.
But then I decided because Iwent with my dad through all of
(03:50):
that at Hopkins, which truly isan amazing place.
I was like, oh, I really want tobe a doctor here.
So now I'm like way moreencouraged to stay and practice
here.
So I decided to go through allthe steps, which I did in about
a year and a half with thatwhole, you know, dad situation
going on and me having to travelback and forth.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
And eventually all the steps, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
So USMLE has three, it's USMLE step one, two, and
three.
One is basic science, two is itis what people here in the US,
you would take that step afteryour second year of medical
school.
Step two is clinical, so youwould take that when you finish
medical school, and then stepthree, you take after a year of
residency, so it's morepractical stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
And I it's very similar to the way chiropractic
is laid out.
Yeah, so it's a lot, and youknow, they take like as you're
studying it.
Yeah, your first year is all thescience and stuff, and then you
take part one of national boardexams, and then you move into I
can't remember what part two is,but part three is clinical, and
then part four, like you have togo around from room to room to
(04:52):
room and perform.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
Yes, there's like the actors that you have to, you
know.
So step two is two.
There's that the actor one,which is great.
I loved it.
And it was one cool thing aboutthat is like there was one woman
that you were supposed to offerher shelter, and she had to
agree.
She was, you know, it was abuse.
That was the diagnosis.
And at the end of the test, theguy said, You were the only one
(05:15):
that convinced the actor to dothat.
I was like, Yes, that were ableto like get the woman out of the
situation.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm soproud of myself.
Yeah, anyway, so I took allthose, and then I got a job as a
research fellow at SloanKettering, which for a cancer
surgeon was, you know, thedream, obviously.
And I was a breast cancersurgeon, so I I started working
(05:35):
in the breast service and andthen decided to do the
fellowship there, which I didthe following year.
And then I decided to doresidency again, general
surgery, because then I could beboard certified.
And everybody told me I wascrazy.
And I was like, Yeah, sure, butI'll try.
So I I got in for a prelim year,which is, you know, general
(05:56):
surgery is five years, but youyou can either get a categorical
position, which is the fiveyears, or you can get a prelim,
which is the first year.
And then, you know, for people,for example, who need sort of a
prerequisite for for otherspecialties, I was like, let me
do a prelim year.
And I did, and people wereright, that was crazy, and I
absolutely did not like that atall.
And they decided I was like theyear, yes.
(06:18):
I finished that year, buthalfway through I decided that I
was gonna go back to Brazil.
And what happened then was I wasturning 40 that year.
So it was an intern with thesepeople who had just left medical
school and they're, I don'tknow, 25 or whatever, and I'm
turning 40 and had been anattending a fellow and all that
(06:39):
stuff.
So that was an interesting year,but I decided I wanted to have
kids, and I was like, well, Idon't have time to go meet
someone, so I'm just gonna beartificially inseminated, right?
Like that's the logical place toI'm gonna do that and move back
to Brazil.
Everything's fine, be a singlemother by choice.
And I did all the tests,everything was fine.
I was ready to go, and thenstarted dating someone, and then
(07:00):
kind of like, you know, and thenkind of went anyway.
I decided to take a sabbaticalwhen I when that relationship
was done, it was just like acouple of months.
And that sabbatical took me toHawaii.
So I moved to Hawaii, I wassupposed to be there a month.
I lived there for almost a year,and that's when I met my the the
father of my kids.
We we met there, we got married,we had kids, and so that was
(07:23):
that was that like deviationfrom the you know, that was not
the path, but it was obviouslyawesome because it's a much
better job, another parent tofor your kids.
So we did move to Brazil, we hadour kids there, and then we
decided to move back to the US.
And and that's when I had tomake the decision to, well, I
didn't have to, but I chose toquit surgery because I didn't
(07:48):
want to see my kids grow up.
And I would see one when I wasin at the Sklon Kerry or at
Cornell, where I did my firstyear, the preliminary year, I
would see all these people neverseeing their kids, spending a
whole entire week without seeingthem because you know, you left
the house, they were stillsleeping, and you come back,
they're still they were alreadyin bed.
And I was like, I don't want todo that.
You know, I had kids very late.
I was 42 my first and 44 with mysecond.
(08:11):
And I was like, I don't want todo that.
I want to see them, I want to behome if they're sick, I wanna,
you know, I want to travel toBrazil to see my mom, you know,
when I when I want.
So like I want a locationfreedom and time freedom.
And that, you know, started thiswhole how am I going to
transition?
What do I even do?
Like, I don't I don't know tohow to do anything.
I know to cut people and takecancer out.
(08:31):
That's that's basically myskill.
I don't think that'stransforming.
Yeah.
And after of several months ofthat, because then we moved to
the US again.
So I have a two-year-old and atwo-month-old.
I do not recommend, by the way,you moving overseas with that
situation.
And I had to figure out, firstof all, how to be, you know, a
(08:54):
mom to kids in Rio in the US,because in Brazil I had a nanny,
I had a mate, you know, inBrazil, how things are my mom
was there, had all the support,and I moved to a place that had
not that kind of support and hadto decide what to do with the
rest of my life.
So eventually, my my husband atthe time, you know, he we we
separated since then, but he waslike, Well, I think you need a
(09:15):
coach.
And I was so clueless that Isaid, Well, I don't play any
sports.
Why would I need a coach?
And it was like, no, like a lifecoach or a career coach.
I'm like, oh, that sounds like ascam, but I'm gonna look it up.
And I looked it up and I waslike, ah, that's what I need to
do with my life.
Because when you're a cancerdoctor, you sure you can skip
(09:39):
those conversations, but I lovedthe conversation of this your
life is different now.
And when you have the diagnosis,everything changes.
And I loved having thoseconversations with these women
that a lot of times were reallyyoung.
I had a lot of patients in their40s and even 30s, and you know,
that would maybe get a surprisepregnancy, but a surprise cancer
(09:59):
was not in the bingo card.
So I loved that thoseconversations, like how were
what are the things in your lifethat you think you need to
change so that doesn't affectyour health so much, which
brings it back to the brainhealth thing, right?
That I I noticed even back thenhow much of the mental stuff
affected the physical stuff.
So that was one of the reasonsthat I wanted to go into
(10:21):
coaching, because I thought,well, if people can change those
dynamics early on, maybe theydon't end up in an office with
cancer like that.
So that was something that wasnot my personal experience, but
I saw so often because when whenI started to talk to these
women, or I would see theirdynamics, like they they had
everything on paper that wasperfect.
(10:43):
And yet when you start talking,they're like, Yeah, but I hate
that.
I don't want this career, and Ididn't want this thing, I want
it to be whatever other thing,but I'm saying yes to everything
because that's what I'm quoteunquote supposed to do.
So I I got started with thatwomen who had cancer, they
looked perfect on paper, yeah,but they were miserable with
(11:06):
life.
Yeah, they checked the boxes,you know, they're supposed to
check to get happy.
Like you have a relationship,you have a job, you have a
career, you have a house, andthey're like, Yeah, I'm
miserable.
I don't like I don't want any ofthese things, or I want them
differently.
Maybe I don't want to be a CEO,I want to have a job that
doesn't require so much of me,and I have more time with my
kids.
Maybe I don't want to bewhatever other thing, like I
(11:29):
don't want to live in this hugehouse.
I'd rather live in a smallerhouse closer to the beach or
whatever.
There was so many of thesethings that I had these
conversations with, and theyfelt like they couldn't, they
couldn't do well.
This is what expected of waswhat's expected of me as a
woman, as in certain whatevercategory they place themselves
in.
(11:49):
So I loved having thoseconversations and being like,
how can you get yourself outsideof those boxes that you checked
and then find the boxes thatactually matter to you so that
you can live a life that doesn'tbring you to a cancer doctor
office in the future?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Yeah, no, I'm not saying that that's causing
cancer, but it's a veryinteresting for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
It's not I don't think it's obviously the cause,
but cancer is multifactorial.
So a lot of people have geneticsfor cancer and they never
develop the disease.
And a lot of people have maybenot as much a genetic component
and end up in in those things.
And again, I don't think it'sobviously the cause for sure.
(12:31):
But there is an influence uhthat you know, even when I would
see patients that had cancermaybe 20 years ago and they had
all the treatment, and then nowthey come back with either a new
cancer or a metastasis.
I would ask those people, like,what happened in your life?
Did anything happen in yourlife?
And more often, I would say ninetimes out of 10, it was like, Oh
(12:51):
yeah, my son died in anaccident, my husband left with
all my money.
And there was something, and Istarted to notice that she was
fine for 20 years withoutcancer, and then this one thing
happens that you know decreaseyour immunity and all those
things, and then whatever isdormant might might come up.
So it's not obviously the cause,but I think it's a it's it's a
(13:11):
factor for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Yeah, all right.
As you're going through yourjourney, and what I'm hearing is
kind of similar to my journey,is we're a high performance,
straight A kind of individualwho's always gonna go after the
next thing.
As you've gone from busy, busy,busy, busy, doctor, doctor,
(13:33):
surgeon, surgeon, shifting overto mom.
What was that shift like and howlike presented to me as you
would a life coach would?
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Yeah, that was interesting because I was what I
call they grown ass adult.
I was 42.
I was like, oh, I'm gonna befine because I'm 42.
Spoiler alert, it was not mine,it was really hard.
And I think I didn't realize howmuch I fell into that trap of I
(14:11):
have to do these things.
So I noticed one particular daywhen my son was a newborn, he
was months old.
And please keep in mind I had ananny and I had a person working
at my house that cleaned myhouse.
And yet there I was washingbottles or something.
My son like needed to breastfeedand have a bottle because you
know he ate like crazy.
(14:31):
So I'm washing bottles and I'mseeing my husband with him in
the little pack, you know, thelittle the the thing, the what
should we call it?
The the baby bjorn.
He had the baby in the babybjorn, and he was doing
something like either reading abook or doing something for
himself.
And I looked at him and waslike, how can he do that?
Like he's doing something thathas nothing to do with this
child.
(14:52):
And like I could do that.
I had people to wash the damnbottles.
I didn't have to wash thebottles, and yet there I was
doing all the things, and Ibecame like this person who had
to like serve everybody and hadto do everything for everyone.
I honestly, to me, it was veryinteresting from a coach's
perspective, looking at thatafter how I immediately as soon
(15:13):
as I popped a baby out, I'mlike, oh, this is my role now.
I am, I have to be the caretakerand the caregiver for everyone.
So that was very interesting tosee until the point where I
recognized that and I was like,wait, what's what's going on?
Like, I have and my husband atthe time too, he's credit, he
would be like, no, go do some,like, oh, you know, go have one
(15:33):
night out that you go dancing orwhatever.
Because I always liked that.
I was like, go do that and I'lltake care of the kids.
And I was like, No, I can't, youknow, feeling I don't know what
what it was that was like, Ican't.
I have this is the thing that Ihave to keep doing until I
stopped and I was like, why?
Why do I have to do that?
I can actually, it's fine.
Like, he takes care of the kidsfine.
I don't, I'm not, I trust himcompletely.
(15:55):
It's not that only I know how todo it, it was not that.
So eventually, slowly I startedto move away from that and get
some of my identity back.
So, and and I started noticingthat that was a common thing
with moms, especially with oldermoms, funny enough, right?
That you would lose part of youridentity when you had when you
(16:16):
adopted the mother identity,even the surgeon one, because I
lost it.
So I think it was, you know, Ilost it.
I decided to get rid of it.
Because when I had the kids,then we moved, and then I I quit
my career.
So that was with the second kid.
So it was I had been a mom fortwo years, and and then now
suddenly I have this newidentity, two kids, and not a
(16:37):
career that was, you know,defined my life since I was 18.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
And saying my own version of that, or I'll catch
myself, like I have to do this.
Like, wait a second.
Who says I have to do it?
Yeah, I can, and I can dosomething else if I choose to.
I'm going through thistransition in life where it's
like I've gone, gone, gone,gone, gone, gone, gone.
(17:04):
And I was like, whoa, I actuallyget to slow down.
And I'm gonna be more mom in thefuture than I've ever been
before.
I had my last one who who justturned two.
I gave myself a week, and I wasback in the office.
Yeah, imagine that.
It's just Zoom, right?
It's just Zoom.
I had my highest month the monthbefore she was born.
(17:29):
Actually, the day before she wasborn.
We ended our closed car for ourlaunch, and then I went and had
a baby the next day, and then Iwas back in training in the
following week.
So I was like, somehow it getsingrained in us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
I call that the inner patriarchy more than, you
know, there's the patriarchyoutside that tells us all the
things, and then there's apatriarchy that doesn't implant
it in our brains that I did notrealize I had.
I always thought of myself, I'ma badass, I'm a cancer surgeon,
am I always like that personthat was like called
intimidating more than whateverother thing, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
Be like called intimidating during college all
the time, yeah, exactly.
So and then I'm like, how did Iwith my friends?
And then I'm like, why am I whyam I not dating?
Like, why are you all myfriends?
Like, you're just intimidating.
SPEAKER_00 (18:14):
We don't want to like yeah, I heard that so
often.
And then suddenly I was like,How did I, the intimidating
person, is now I wouldn't evenlike put an earrings on, you
know?
I was just like, Well, this ismy entire life.
I have the mom jeans, thewhatever, you know, like I don't
take care of myself at all, andeverything is for these people.
And that was that was reallyinteresting, especially when I
(18:35):
went through coach uh trainingand I started, you know, paying
way more attention to to thosekinds of things and seeing how
any of us can fall into thattrap.
And the inner patriarchy isinside of us because it's
everywhere, every single placewe look at those subtle messages
are being implanted in ourbrains.
And I think one of the biggestthings that we can do for our
(18:56):
brain health and for our healthin general is to look at those
things and decide which beliefsare yours and which you just
have because it's just repeatedso many times that you know, for
example, that you have to takeone week off when you have a
child instead of like, no, takewhatever, however much time you
need, definitely not a week, Iwould think.
(19:18):
And just just enjoy and bethere, be present with your
child.
No, like we have to go back andwe have because we're type A and
because we're professionals,because we have our business and
all that stuff, we have to, wehave force ourselves into that,
which which I don't think istrue because I took a year
sabbatical and I was fine, wentback to my job.
I was like, oh, not my job, mymy practice.
(19:41):
But you know, it doesn't goaway, it's still there.
You can you can take it back,you can take some time, you can
rest, you can take time withyour kids and all of that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
Along the along your journey, what would you say was
the best decision you made foryour brain, helping it to become
unshakable?
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
I think the for it was two things.
One was taking that sabbatical.
I think that was reallyimportant because life in New
York as a person working atSloan Carry, and then as an in
40-year-old intern at New YorkPresbyterian was a lot.
(20:24):
I worked many, many hours.
You had like maybe 20 hours, youknow, off one day a week,
whatever.
And I felt like I couldn't eventhink it's the the point you
don't even make decisionsanymore.
You're just like being thrown,you know, with a current because
you're just so tired.
So I think taking that break canbe no, I I'm gonna stop and I'm
gonna actually figure out who amI, first of all, and what what
(20:49):
is what is life about?
Because uh, my entire life, itwas uh once I decided to go into
medical school, you're like, oh,it's medical school, and I was
residency, now I was this, nowit's this the path is all like
just shows up and it's like laidout for you and you're supposed
to come, and it's very in a way,sort of unconscious, you just
keep going.
So taking that break can be no,I'm in going to the jungle in
(21:11):
Hawaii, where there was noself-service, there was very
faint Wi-Fi, so it was away notonly from civilization society
and everyone, but also from myfamily, from everything that I
knew.
It was eight hours differenttime difference from Brazil, so
I couldn't really talk a lotwith my family.
So being completely removed fromall of those expectations and
(21:32):
being in a place where a lot ofpeople are in transition, and a
lot of, you know, there's a lotof very deep conversations and
all those transformationalworkshops.
I lived in a retreat center thathad all those kinds of things.
So, really, that was when Irealized for the first time I
was 40, that surgeon was a partof my identity, was not my
(21:53):
entire being.
Because at until that point, Ithought, yeah, if I'm not a
surgeon, there's nothing left ofme.
Like that's that's that's all Iknow, that's all I am.
You know, it's soall-encompassing that I didn't
see anything outside.
And I didn't plan to not be asurgeon, but I realized that oh,
I'm more than that.
I am an actual person with a lotof other things other than being
(22:17):
surgeon, and which was veryuseful when I actually had to
make the really hard decision toleave a career that I not only I
loved, but I was success,successful at, and start doing
something that a lot of peoplelooked, you know, like I did.
Well, yeah, that sounds like ascam.
And I don't do just lifecoaching now, I have another
(22:39):
business, but still, I stillthink that that is that was, and
that was the second part to gothrough coach training because
then it was really looking at alot of parts of my brain and be
more conscious in the beliefs.
The first part with that bigbelief, as me as a surgeon, is
my whole entire identity, andthen with coach training,
(23:01):
because you do so much coachingwhile you're in in training,
that I really had to examine alot of the things that I
believed, and and that was thesecond part that I feel now
really it just made my brainyounger almost, you know.
I feel younger now than I feltthen.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
Yeah, and you actually gave your brain rest
where you know in chiropracticschool, we I joke around that we
got so good at test taking.
Yeah, you would take 26 exams ina week, like that was very
common just to keep pumping outexams and regurgitate
(23:45):
information, and then when yousay like I am a surgeon, but
then you realize that there'smore to you.
I had this conversation with umDr.
Rewire when when he and I werepairing up pairing up with this
brain DNA test, and I just said,I'm I'm a chiropractor, because
he's a chiropractor as well.
(24:05):
Neither one of us adjustsanymore.
Neither one of us ever wants togo back to adjusting.
So, what does that look like inthe future?
How do we still use ourchiropractic degree?
Because it's like you spent allthis time and money.
What do you do with it movingforward?
(24:26):
And for me, it's more of a of aplatform now and a time in my
life that gave me opportunitiesin which I have now stepped
through.
And I and I feel like that'ssomething that you've done,
Marl, where like you were youwere once a surgeon and then you
saw something different that youwanted, you wanted to be able to
spend time with your boys.
(24:47):
I've always wanted to spend timewith my kids too, which is one
of the reasons why I steppedaway from that adjusting, was I
didn't want to adjust 40, 50, 60hours a week, yeah, and then be
like one of those chiropractorsand barely make ends meet.
Like, no, thank you.
Yeah, I'm gonna find somethingdifferent to do.
And for me, it was blood work,now it's all brain stuff.
For you, it was life coaching,and now you're doing business
(25:10):
coaching.
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
Yeah, and in helping the people who want to what I'm
when people want to come out ofthe medical practitioner,
whatever it is, world and moveto entrepreneurship.
I think there's such a jump thatwe have to do for so many
reasons.
For example, when I startedcoaching school, and obviously
then I start having to talkabout your business, you know,
(25:33):
as a bit you yourself as abusiness person because now you
have to go and find yourclients, which then I realized
that I had a private practicewhen I lived in Brazil.
It was the same.
So I was a business person forover 10 years, and I had never
once considered myself, thoughtof myself as a business person.
I had an office, I hademployees, I had a team, I paid
(25:54):
my taxes, was like full-onadulting, and never thought of
myself as a business person.
And then I was just, I was like,I think that's a very common
thing when you're in the medicalworld, you're like, oh yeah, I'm
a doctor, that's what I am.
And doesn't matter that peopleare paying me money and I'm, you
know, having to manage all thisstuff on top of managing the
clinical stuff.
(26:16):
So, and now I see with theclients that I work with,
because now I'm I'm helpingpeople do that, move from if you
want to either a side hustle ora full-on business, I will
create the whole tech for youand do the coaching because the
coaching is a very importantpart to move from a world where
you have all the answers, right?
(26:36):
You're talking about all thesetests.
We take so many tests that weget used to the fact that it's
like, well, yeah, if you go to abook or a thing, there's a
there's an answer there.
You know, you're gonna find theanswer.
And this is the answer, and thisis the only answer, everything
else is wrong.
And entrepreneurship is like,everything works.
Throw spaghetti at the work andthe wall, see what sticks.
(26:56):
I don't know.
Nobody's gonna die, just do itand try it out.
And it's so hard, at least itwas for me, and I seen so many
of my clients getting rid ofthat.
But where are the answers?
Where's the guidelines?
Where's the backup plan?
Where's all those things?
Like, no, we don't have that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
You have to figure it out.
In my brain, it was the timelinebecause there was always a
timeline in school, yeah, untilthe test, okay, right next
quarter, yeah, next test, nextquiz, next class.
There was always set intimelines.
Whereas when you get out intothe real world and you're
(27:31):
running a business, there's notimelines.
There's there's no timeline,there's no guidebook.
There's no there's it's sodifferent, and our brains
literally have to grasp thosechanges.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Yeah, exactly.
So, and you do have to changethe you have to change the way
you think in the end, yeah,which is the perfectionist, you
want your surgeon to be aperfectionist for sure.
I was a massive perfectionist,and having to let go of that.
Oh, for example, if you want, Idon't know, create a landing
page, the simplest thing.
Every single thing has to beperfect because when you're
(28:06):
there tying up vessels andstuff, yeah, you want that thing
to be very as close to perfectas you possibly can because
people's lives are on the line.
And in entrepreneurship, youhave to let go of that, and you
have to be like, no, failure isa hundred percent part of it.
You you're not gonna getanywhere without failing a
bunch, and being able to takethat without having your nervous
(28:30):
system connect that to failurein medicine, especially as a
cancer surgeon.
Let me tell you, that's not fun.
SPEAKER_01 (28:35):
Oh guilty as charged, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Even when you're you did, I remember when I was a
slone catering, one of mypatients from Brazil, she showed
metastasis showed up and sheended up dying pretty quickly.
And I went to my boss, who isone of the most respected
surgeons in the world, and Itold her, like, oh, this is I
showed her all the exams,everything that I did, and she
(28:58):
has to stop, look at me.
I'm like, you did everythingright.
Sometimes the biology is justthe biology, and she just had a
very uh aggressive cancer.
Yes, it was early stage, but thebiologically was still very
aggressive.
And the the for me to get graspthe no, that's not my fault that
she died, it was so hard.
(29:20):
And those kinds of things,whenever you face failure, quote
unquote, in entrepreneurship.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
I don't know, if someone had a mean comment on
your YouTube video or whatever,still you want something and no
one's bought, or like one personbought.
Yeah, people just see the oneswhere I've won so big, people
see the ones where I did itanyways, not knowing what the
outcome was, and it was anegative or a well, that really
(29:46):
sucked.
What happened there?
Kind of moment, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
Or when a client is mad at you, because you you
know, as a coach, you piss offclients sometimes because you
have to tell them, like, yeah,it's kind of like there's a lot
of stuff that you're getting inyour way as a client of coaches.
I can't.
Can't attest that it does notfeel good.
When you're like, what am I theproblem?
No, I'm not the problem.
Everybody else is the problem.
So obviously, and having to dealwith that is, you know, your
(30:10):
nervous system goes straightinto, oh my God, like that
reaction that you had whensomething went wrong in
medicine.
So being able to increase yourcapability to for failure is
essential for entrepreneurship.
So that's why the business thatI do now, yes, like create all
the tech.
(30:31):
I would do like the website, thebranding, all that stuff, but
also the coaching, because youcan have all the websites and
branding and your offer and yourcontent, everything.
And if your mindset is correct,you're not gonna do things,
you're not gonna try it out,you're not gonna put yourself
out there, you're not gonnalaunch the thing, you're not
gonna, you know, keep goingbecause entrepreneurship is
basically, yeah, you have tokeep going with the rejection,
(30:52):
with the failure and all that.
And that's just how it's goingto be.
It's never gonna be like, oh,now I've arrived and I have no
issues anymore.
That's that's never gonna be thecase.
SPEAKER_01 (31:01):
Yeah, there's no test, there's no deadline,
there's no gold star.
You did it.
There's no like A, B, C, D, E,yeah, but A, B, C, D, and then
F.
Like, yeah, F just comes as partof the journey.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (31:17):
And I do trained in that way, and I do think that
that, you know, going back tothe brain health thing, I think
that just like learning a secondor a third language, you
increase your brain pathways andall that stuff, and you you
increase your brain health whenyou do that.
I think moving from a medical,the medical world or even job
(31:38):
job, like if you always had ajob and then you become an
entrepreneur, it's kind of thesame thing.
But med medicine is more becauseyou're just so all-encompassing.
I think that's kind of likelearning a new language because
you have to learn all of thosenew things.
The people that come to me forfor my business, they're like, I
don't know where to press on thethings.
I don't know, like the tech isjust, I was just having a
conversation with a clientyesterday.
(31:58):
She was like, I hate tech.
I cannot at least.
It was like, yeah, that's whyyou hire me.
I will deal with that until youincrease your capacity because
it does take a long time.
So, what I want to provide islet me handle that stuff and
slowly give it to you while youhave a business, instead of you
having to take five years toincrease your capacity by
(32:19):
yourself while having to learnall the tech and do all the
things and learn this newlanguage of entrepreneurship,
which is very much, I would evensay almost more than a new
language because there's so muchmore that requires of there's
required of your nervous systemthat you know that also
increases your capacity in manyways, brain-wise.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
Well, we've talked about so much today, and we've
covered so much along yourjourney.
What's one tip that you canleave individuals on helping
them create that unshakablebrain, especially as they make
go through a transition in life?
Because you've been throughmany, and I'm in one right now.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
Yeah, don't believe everything you think.
Oh, that's good.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Don't believe everything you think.
SPEAKER_00 (33:07):
Yeah, because our brains are they want us to
survive.
Our brains are not interested inus being happy, in us thriving,
in us, none of that.
Your brain just wants you to notdie.
That is the mission.
So if you take everything youbelieve and that you think with
a grain of salt and you actuallyquestion it with just one
(33:31):
simple, you know, whenever youhave a thought, you can just ask
yourself, is that true?
Can I be sure that it's true?
Who says?
Because a lot of times gonna belike, oh, my third grade teacher
or my mom or whatever.
Like it's gonna be that personwho implanted that thing in your
brain, and like, oh no.
For example, oh, you're not goodat with money, so you shouldn't
be an entrepreneur.
Who said that?
(33:52):
Where did you learn that?
You know, like ask yourselfthose questions, those truths
that you're very much no, Ican't do that because okay,
let's examine that, let's makesure that that is true and that
you can't do the thing becauseof that, or that's just a
thought that you repeated somany times that it became a
belief, and now you think as itis the law of gravity, you know,
it's not that's the truth, thelot of gravity.
(34:14):
Maybe you not being good withmoney is not, and even if you're
not, you can learn, right?
SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
Right, all right.
Don't believe everything youthink.
That's our end of chat today.
Call to action.
So next time you have a thoughtthat you're just like, Oh, don't
believe it.
Don't believe everything youthink.
I am Dr.
Kylie.
This is Dr.
Manuela, and uh, doctor, wherecan they find you?
(34:40):
Specifically, practitioners whowant to pivot their business.
SPEAKER_00 (34:44):
Oh, love that that word because it is the word, the
name of my business,drespot.com.
You can have all the informationabout my business.
And if you want to connect withme on my personal Instagram,
it's DR Manuela Powell onInstagram and all the social
media.
And that's my chaotic dancingkids, life, business, everything
(35:07):
all together.
I love connecting with people.
If you do follow me there,please send me a DM and let's
get to know each other.
unknown (35:13):
Cool.
SPEAKER_01 (35:13):
All right, you have heard it on Unshakable Brain.
If you would be so just take aminute and leave a review and
send this podcast to a friend, Iwould greatly appreciate it.
Next time.
Going through medical school once is hard
enough, let alone doing it twicebecause you moved countries and
the new country doesn't acceptyour old license.
I am Dr.
Kylie and welcome to UnshakableBrain, your guide to an
unshakable brain.
My mission is simple to help yougrow a brain that's stronger,
(00:23):
sharper, and unshakable in everypart of your life.
Each week we explore thescience, stories, and strategies
to make that happen.
This episode is brought to youby Dr.
Rewire's brain DNA test.
Find out more atunshakablebrain.ai.
All right, let's dive in.
With me today is Dr.
Manuela Powell.
(00:44):
She is originally from Braziland moved to the US.
And we're gonna go through herstory today in a lens of how
every decision she made impactedher brain health.
And because of that, impactedher little boys along the line.
So welcome on, Dr.
You have me calling you Manuelaor Dr.
(01:05):
Pat?
Yeah, Manuela is good.
Manuela is okay.
All right, walk us through lifein Brazil.
My stepmother-in-law is actuallyBrazilian.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Well, first of all, hi, andthank you for having me.
I love chatting with you, as youknow.
So this is gonna be fun.
So yeah, I am from Rio, which isan awesome place to visit.
I was not a fan of living therevery much.
So I always had that idea tomove, at least to try out and
to, you know, come and do someresearch or some training in the
(01:38):
US.
And eventually that thathappened in 2008.
And as you Americanpractitioners know, you need to
do the USMLE to practice in theUS, which is not the case in
Brazil.
So I went through medicalschool, a residency and a
fellowship in Brazil.
I was a cancer surgeon, so I didgeneral surgery and then
surgical oncology and practicedfor five years.
(02:01):
And so I wasn't attending forfive years and then decided to
move here.
So I went to Washington, DC totake, you know, the USMLE and
all that stuff.
And as soon as I moved, my dadgot diagnosed with cancer, with
a very rare tumor to a Clatskintumor.
I was like, oh man, I gotta bethe the son, the father of a
(02:22):
cancer surgeon to have me.
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
Yeah, like you are a cancer surgeon, aren't you?
unknown (02:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Yeah, exactly.
So I was able to bring him overto Hopkins, where absolutely out
of coincidence, the the biggestworld, the world specialist in
that surgery was.
So just there was like, how didthis even happen?
So I'm trying, you know, I'mstudying to the USMLE, but also
going through all that.
It was really tough.
(02:47):
He had so many like nineprocedures before he could even
have the surgery, which was 14hours and all of that stuff, and
then chemo and radiation.
So much, yeah.
So that was a lot, but you know,he had a tumor that usually the
survival is six months and helived for 22.
(03:08):
So we counted that as a win.
And I really spent a lot of thattime with him since he came over
to the US.
And while he was doing hisradiation or no chemo, he did in
Brazil.
So I traveled a lot there.
So just that was a lot on thesystem, especially you know,
you're trying to learn these newthings because I went to medical
school.
(03:28):
My first year was 92, and thenobviously USMLA step one is by
basic science, and the basicscience I needed to be tested on
did not exist in '92.
I had to relearn molecularbiology.
Thank God for YouTube at thatpoint, because that's how I
learned it.
And I did very well on the test.
But then I decided because Iwent with my dad through all of
(03:50):
that at Hopkins, which truly isan amazing place.
I was like, oh, I really want tobe a doctor here.
So now I'm like way moreencouraged to stay and practice
here.
So I decided to go through allthe steps, which I did in about
a year and a half with thatwhole, you know, dad situation
going on and me having to travelback and forth.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
And eventually all the steps, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
So USMLE has three, it's USMLE step one, two, and
three.
One is basic science, two is itis what people here in the US,
you would take that step afteryour second year of medical
school.
Step two is clinical, so youwould take that when you finish
medical school, and then stepthree, you take after a year of
residency, so it's morepractical stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
And I it's very similar to the way chiropractic
is laid out.
Yeah, so it's a lot, and youknow, they take like as you're
studying it.
Yeah, your first year is all thescience and stuff, and then you
take part one of national boardexams, and then you move into I
can't remember what part two is,but part three is clinical, and
then part four, like you have togo around from room to room to
(04:52):
room and perform.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
Yes, there's like the actors that you have to, you
know.
So step two is two.
There's that the actor one,which is great.
I loved it.
And it was one cool thing aboutthat is like there was one woman
that you were supposed to offerher shelter, and she had to
agree.
She was, you know, it was abuse.
That was the diagnosis.
And at the end of the test, theguy said, You were the only one
(05:15):
that convinced the actor to dothat.
I was like, Yes, that were ableto like get the woman out of the
situation.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm soproud of myself.
Yeah, anyway, so I took allthose, and then I got a job as a
research fellow at SloanKettering, which for a cancer
surgeon was, you know, thedream, obviously.
And I was a breast cancersurgeon, so I I started working
(05:35):
in the breast service and andthen decided to do the
fellowship there, which I didthe following year.
And then I decided to doresidency again, general
surgery, because then I could beboard certified.
And everybody told me I wascrazy.
And I was like, Yeah, sure, butI'll try.
So I I got in for a prelim year,which is, you know, general
(05:56):
surgery is five years, but youyou can either get a categorical
position, which is the fiveyears, or you can get a prelim,
which is the first year.
And then, you know, for people,for example, who need sort of a
prerequisite for for otherspecialties, I was like, let me
do a prelim year.
And I did, and people wereright, that was crazy, and I
absolutely did not like that atall.
And they decided I was like theyear, yes.
(06:18):
I finished that year, buthalfway through I decided that I
was gonna go back to Brazil.
And what happened then was I wasturning 40 that year.
So it was an intern with thesepeople who had just left medical
school and they're, I don'tknow, 25 or whatever, and I'm
turning 40 and had been anattending a fellow and all that
(06:39):
stuff.
So that was an interesting year,but I decided I wanted to have
kids, and I was like, well, Idon't have time to go meet
someone, so I'm just gonna beartificially inseminated, right?
Like that's the logical place toI'm gonna do that and move back
to Brazil.
Everything's fine, be a singlemother by choice.
And I did all the tests,everything was fine.
I was ready to go, and thenstarted dating someone, and then
(07:00):
kind of like, you know, and thenkind of went anyway.
I decided to take a sabbaticalwhen I when that relationship
was done, it was just like acouple of months.
And that sabbatical took me toHawaii.
So I moved to Hawaii, I wassupposed to be there a month.
I lived there for almost a year,and that's when I met my the the
father of my kids.
We we met there, we got married,we had kids, and so that was
(07:23):
that was that like deviationfrom the you know, that was not
the path, but it was obviouslyawesome because it's a much
better job, another parent tofor your kids.
So we did move to Brazil, we hadour kids there, and then we
decided to move back to the US.
And and that's when I had tomake the decision to, well, I
didn't have to, but I chose toquit surgery because I didn't
(07:48):
want to see my kids grow up.
And I would see one when I wasin at the Sklon Kerry or at
Cornell, where I did my firstyear, the preliminary year, I
would see all these people neverseeing their kids, spending a
whole entire week without seeingthem because you know, you left
the house, they were stillsleeping, and you come back,
they're still they were alreadyin bed.
And I was like, I don't want todo that.
You know, I had kids very late.
I was 42 my first and 44 with mysecond.
(08:11):
And I was like, I don't want todo that.
I want to see them, I want to behome if they're sick, I wanna,
you know, I want to travel toBrazil to see my mom, you know,
when I when I want.
So like I want a locationfreedom and time freedom.
And that, you know, started thiswhole how am I going to
transition?
What do I even do?
Like, I don't I don't know tohow to do anything.
I know to cut people and takecancer out.
(08:31):
That's that's basically myskill.
I don't think that'stransforming.
Yeah.
And after of several months ofthat, because then we moved to
the US again.
So I have a two-year-old and atwo-month-old.
I do not recommend, by the way,you moving overseas with that
situation.
And I had to figure out, firstof all, how to be, you know, a
(08:54):
mom to kids in Rio in the US,because in Brazil I had a nanny,
I had a mate, you know, inBrazil, how things are my mom
was there, had all the support,and I moved to a place that had
not that kind of support and hadto decide what to do with the
rest of my life.
So eventually, my my husband atthe time, you know, he we we
separated since then, but he waslike, Well, I think you need a
(09:15):
coach.
And I was so clueless that Isaid, Well, I don't play any
sports.
Why would I need a coach?
And it was like, no, like a lifecoach or a career coach.
I'm like, oh, that sounds like ascam, but I'm gonna look it up.
And I looked it up and I waslike, ah, that's what I need to
do with my life.
Because when you're a cancerdoctor, you sure you can skip
(09:39):
those conversations, but I lovedthe conversation of this your
life is different now.
And when you have the diagnosis,everything changes.
And I loved having thoseconversations with these women
that a lot of times were reallyyoung.
I had a lot of patients in their40s and even 30s, and you know,
that would maybe get a surprisepregnancy, but a surprise cancer
(09:59):
was not in the bingo card.
So I loved that thoseconversations, like how were
what are the things in your lifethat you think you need to
change so that doesn't affectyour health so much, which
brings it back to the brainhealth thing, right?
That I I noticed even back thenhow much of the mental stuff
affected the physical stuff.
So that was one of the reasonsthat I wanted to go into
(10:21):
coaching, because I thought,well, if people can change those
dynamics early on, maybe theydon't end up in an office with
cancer like that.
So that was something that wasnot my personal experience, but
I saw so often because when whenI started to talk to these
women, or I would see theirdynamics, like they they had
everything on paper that wasperfect.
(10:43):
And yet when you start talking,they're like, Yeah, but I hate
that.
I don't want this career, and Ididn't want this thing, I want
it to be whatever other thing,but I'm saying yes to everything
because that's what I'm quoteunquote supposed to do.
So I I got started with thatwomen who had cancer, they
looked perfect on paper, yeah,but they were miserable with
(11:06):
life.
Yeah, they checked the boxes,you know, they're supposed to
check to get happy.
Like you have a relationship,you have a job, you have a
career, you have a house, andthey're like, Yeah, I'm
miserable.
I don't like I don't want any ofthese things, or I want them
differently.
Maybe I don't want to be a CEO,I want to have a job that
doesn't require so much of me,and I have more time with my
kids.
Maybe I don't want to bewhatever other thing, like I
(11:29):
don't want to live in this hugehouse.
I'd rather live in a smallerhouse closer to the beach or
whatever.
There was so many of thesethings that I had these
conversations with, and theyfelt like they couldn't, they
couldn't do well.
This is what expected of waswhat's expected of me as a
woman, as in certain whatevercategory they place themselves
in.
(11:49):
So I loved having thoseconversations and being like,
how can you get yourself outsideof those boxes that you checked
and then find the boxes thatactually matter to you so that
you can live a life that doesn'tbring you to a cancer doctor
office in the future?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Yeah, no, I'm not saying that that's causing
cancer, but it's a veryinteresting for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
It's not I don't think it's obviously the cause,
but cancer is multifactorial.
So a lot of people have geneticsfor cancer and they never
develop the disease.
And a lot of people have maybenot as much a genetic component
and end up in in those things.
And again, I don't think it'sobviously the cause for sure.
(12:31):
But there is an influence uhthat you know, even when I would
see patients that had cancermaybe 20 years ago and they had
all the treatment, and then nowthey come back with either a new
cancer or a metastasis.
I would ask those people, like,what happened in your life?
Did anything happen in yourlife?
And more often, I would say ninetimes out of 10, it was like, Oh
(12:51):
yeah, my son died in anaccident, my husband left with
all my money.
And there was something, and Istarted to notice that she was
fine for 20 years withoutcancer, and then this one thing
happens that you know decreaseyour immunity and all those
things, and then whatever isdormant might might come up.
So it's not obviously the cause,but I think it's a it's it's a
(13:11):
factor for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Yeah, all right.
As you're going through yourjourney, and what I'm hearing is
kind of similar to my journey,is we're a high performance,
straight A kind of individualwho's always gonna go after the
next thing.
As you've gone from busy, busy,busy, busy, doctor, doctor,
(13:33):
surgeon, surgeon, shifting overto mom.
What was that shift like and howlike presented to me as you
would a life coach would?
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Yeah, that was interesting because I was what I
call they grown ass adult.
I was 42.
I was like, oh, I'm gonna befine because I'm 42.
Spoiler alert, it was not mine,it was really hard.
And I think I didn't realize howmuch I fell into that trap of I
(14:11):
have to do these things.
So I noticed one particular daywhen my son was a newborn, he
was months old.
And please keep in mind I had ananny and I had a person working
at my house that cleaned myhouse.
And yet there I was washingbottles or something.
My son like needed to breastfeedand have a bottle because you
know he ate like crazy.
(14:31):
So I'm washing bottles and I'mseeing my husband with him in
the little pack, you know, thelittle the the thing, the what
should we call it?
The the baby bjorn.
He had the baby in the babybjorn, and he was doing
something like either reading abook or doing something for
himself.
And I looked at him and waslike, how can he do that?
Like he's doing something thathas nothing to do with this
child.
(14:52):
And like I could do that.
I had people to wash the damnbottles.
I didn't have to wash thebottles, and yet there I was
doing all the things, and Ibecame like this person who had
to like serve everybody and hadto do everything for everyone.
I honestly, to me, it was veryinteresting from a coach's
perspective, looking at thatafter how I immediately as soon
(15:13):
as I popped a baby out, I'mlike, oh, this is my role now.
I am, I have to be the caretakerand the caregiver for everyone.
So that was very interesting tosee until the point where I
recognized that and I was like,wait, what's what's going on?
Like, I have and my husband atthe time too, he's credit, he
would be like, no, go do some,like, oh, you know, go have one
(15:33):
night out that you go dancing orwhatever.
Because I always liked that.
I was like, go do that and I'lltake care of the kids.
And I was like, No, I can't, youknow, feeling I don't know what
what it was that was like, Ican't.
I have this is the thing that Ihave to keep doing until I
stopped and I was like, why?
Why do I have to do that?
I can actually, it's fine.
Like, he takes care of the kidsfine.
I don't, I'm not, I trust himcompletely.
(15:55):
It's not that only I know how todo it, it was not that.
So eventually, slowly I startedto move away from that and get
some of my identity back.
So, and and I started noticingthat that was a common thing
with moms, especially with oldermoms, funny enough, right?
That you would lose part of youridentity when you had when you
(16:16):
adopted the mother identity,even the surgeon one, because I
lost it.
So I think it was, you know, Ilost it.
I decided to get rid of it.
Because when I had the kids,then we moved, and then I I quit
my career.
So that was with the second kid.
So it was I had been a mom fortwo years, and and then now
suddenly I have this newidentity, two kids, and not a
(16:37):
career that was, you know,defined my life since I was 18.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
And saying my own version of that, or I'll catch
myself, like I have to do this.
Like, wait a second.
Who says I have to do it?
Yeah, I can, and I can dosomething else if I choose to.
I'm going through thistransition in life where it's
like I've gone, gone, gone,gone, gone, gone, gone.
(17:04):
And I was like, whoa, I actuallyget to slow down.
And I'm gonna be more mom in thefuture than I've ever been
before.
I had my last one who who justturned two.
I gave myself a week, and I wasback in the office.
Yeah, imagine that.
It's just Zoom, right?
It's just Zoom.
I had my highest month the monthbefore she was born.
(17:29):
Actually, the day before she wasborn.
We ended our closed car for ourlaunch, and then I went and had
a baby the next day, and then Iwas back in training in the
following week.
So I was like, somehow it getsingrained in us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
I call that the inner patriarchy more than, you
know, there's the patriarchyoutside that tells us all the
things, and then there's apatriarchy that doesn't implant
it in our brains that I did notrealize I had.
I always thought of myself, I'ma badass, I'm a cancer surgeon,
am I always like that personthat was like called
intimidating more than whateverother thing, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
Be like called intimidating during college all
the time, yeah, exactly.
So and then I'm like, how did Iwith my friends?
And then I'm like, why am I whyam I not dating?
Like, why are you all myfriends?
Like, you're just intimidating.
SPEAKER_00 (18:14):
We don't want to like yeah, I heard that so
often.
And then suddenly I was like,How did I, the intimidating
person, is now I wouldn't evenlike put an earrings on, you
know?
I was just like, Well, this ismy entire life.
I have the mom jeans, thewhatever, you know, like I don't
take care of myself at all, andeverything is for these people.
And that was that was reallyinteresting, especially when I
(18:35):
went through coach uh trainingand I started, you know, paying
way more attention to to thosekinds of things and seeing how
any of us can fall into thattrap.
And the inner patriarchy isinside of us because it's
everywhere, every single placewe look at those subtle messages
are being implanted in ourbrains.
And I think one of the biggestthings that we can do for our
(18:56):
brain health and for our healthin general is to look at those
things and decide which beliefsare yours and which you just
have because it's just repeatedso many times that you know, for
example, that you have to takeone week off when you have a
child instead of like, no, takewhatever, however much time you
need, definitely not a week, Iwould think.
(19:18):
And just just enjoy and bethere, be present with your
child.
No, like we have to go back andwe have because we're type A and
because we're professionals,because we have our business and
all that stuff, we have to, wehave force ourselves into that,
which which I don't think istrue because I took a year
sabbatical and I was fine, wentback to my job.
I was like, oh, not my job, mymy practice.
(19:41):
But you know, it doesn't goaway, it's still there.
You can you can take it back,you can take some time, you can
rest, you can take time withyour kids and all of that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
Along the along your journey, what would you say was
the best decision you made foryour brain, helping it to become
unshakable?
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
I think the for it was two things.
One was taking that sabbatical.
I think that was reallyimportant because life in New
York as a person working atSloan Carry, and then as an in
40-year-old intern at New YorkPresbyterian was a lot.
(20:24):
I worked many, many hours.
You had like maybe 20 hours, youknow, off one day a week,
whatever.
And I felt like I couldn't eventhink it's the the point you
don't even make decisionsanymore.
You're just like being thrown,you know, with a current because
you're just so tired.
So I think taking that break canbe no, I I'm gonna stop and I'm
gonna actually figure out who amI, first of all, and what what
(20:49):
is what is life about?
Because uh, my entire life, itwas uh once I decided to go into
medical school, you're like, oh,it's medical school, and I was
residency, now I was this, nowit's this the path is all like
just shows up and it's like laidout for you and you're supposed
to come, and it's very in a way,sort of unconscious, you just
keep going.
So taking that break can be no,I'm in going to the jungle in
(21:11):
Hawaii, where there was noself-service, there was very
faint Wi-Fi, so it was away notonly from civilization society
and everyone, but also from myfamily, from everything that I
knew.
It was eight hours differenttime difference from Brazil, so
I couldn't really talk a lotwith my family.
So being completely removed fromall of those expectations and
(21:32):
being in a place where a lot ofpeople are in transition, and a
lot of, you know, there's a lotof very deep conversations and
all those transformationalworkshops.
I lived in a retreat center thathad all those kinds of things.
So, really, that was when Irealized for the first time I
was 40, that surgeon was a partof my identity, was not my
(21:53):
entire being.
Because at until that point, Ithought, yeah, if I'm not a
surgeon, there's nothing left ofme.
Like that's that's that's all Iknow, that's all I am.
You know, it's soall-encompassing that I didn't
see anything outside.
And I didn't plan to not be asurgeon, but I realized that oh,
I'm more than that.
I am an actual person with a lotof other things other than being
(22:17):
surgeon, and which was veryuseful when I actually had to
make the really hard decision toleave a career that I not only I
loved, but I was success,successful at, and start doing
something that a lot of peoplelooked, you know, like I did.
Well, yeah, that sounds like ascam.
And I don't do just lifecoaching now, I have another
(22:39):
business, but still, I stillthink that that is that was, and
that was the second part to gothrough coach training because
then it was really looking at alot of parts of my brain and be
more conscious in the beliefs.
The first part with that bigbelief, as me as a surgeon, is
my whole entire identity, andthen with coach training,
(23:01):
because you do so much coachingwhile you're in in training,
that I really had to examine alot of the things that I
believed, and and that was thesecond part that I feel now
really it just made my brainyounger almost, you know.
I feel younger now than I feltthen.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
Yeah, and you actually gave your brain rest
where you know in chiropracticschool, we I joke around that we
got so good at test taking.
Yeah, you would take 26 exams ina week, like that was very
common just to keep pumping outexams and regurgitate
(23:45):
information, and then when yousay like I am a surgeon, but
then you realize that there'smore to you.
I had this conversation with umDr.
Rewire when when he and I werepairing up pairing up with this
brain DNA test, and I just said,I'm I'm a chiropractor, because
he's a chiropractor as well.
(24:05):
Neither one of us adjustsanymore.
Neither one of us ever wants togo back to adjusting.
So, what does that look like inthe future?
How do we still use ourchiropractic degree?
Because it's like you spent allthis time and money.
What do you do with it movingforward?
(24:26):
And for me, it's more of a of aplatform now and a time in my
life that gave me opportunitiesin which I have now stepped
through.
And I and I feel like that'ssomething that you've done,
Marl, where like you were youwere once a surgeon and then you
saw something different that youwanted, you wanted to be able to
spend time with your boys.
(24:47):
I've always wanted to spend timewith my kids too, which is one
of the reasons why I steppedaway from that adjusting, was I
didn't want to adjust 40, 50, 60hours a week, yeah, and then be
like one of those chiropractorsand barely make ends meet.
Like, no, thank you.
Yeah, I'm gonna find somethingdifferent to do.
And for me, it was blood work,now it's all brain stuff.
For you, it was life coaching,and now you're doing business
(25:10):
coaching.
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
Yeah, and in helping the people who want to what I'm
when people want to come out ofthe medical practitioner,
whatever it is, world and moveto entrepreneurship.
I think there's such a jump thatwe have to do for so many
reasons.
For example, when I startedcoaching school, and obviously
then I start having to talkabout your business, you know,
(25:33):
as a bit you yourself as abusiness person because now you
have to go and find yourclients, which then I realized
that I had a private practicewhen I lived in Brazil.
It was the same.
So I was a business person forover 10 years, and I had never
once considered myself, thoughtof myself as a business person.
I had an office, I hademployees, I had a team, I paid
(25:54):
my taxes, was like full-onadulting, and never thought of
myself as a business person.
And then I was just, I was like,I think that's a very common
thing when you're in the medicalworld, you're like, oh yeah, I'm
a doctor, that's what I am.
And doesn't matter that peopleare paying me money and I'm, you
know, having to manage all thisstuff on top of managing the
clinical stuff.
(26:16):
So, and now I see with theclients that I work with,
because now I'm I'm helpingpeople do that, move from if you
want to either a side hustle ora full-on business, I will
create the whole tech for youand do the coaching because the
coaching is a very importantpart to move from a world where
you have all the answers, right?
(26:36):
You're talking about all thesetests.
We take so many tests that weget used to the fact that it's
like, well, yeah, if you go to abook or a thing, there's a
there's an answer there.
You know, you're gonna find theanswer.
And this is the answer, and thisis the only answer, everything
else is wrong.
And entrepreneurship is like,everything works.
Throw spaghetti at the work andthe wall, see what sticks.
(26:56):
I don't know.
Nobody's gonna die, just do itand try it out.
And it's so hard, at least itwas for me, and I seen so many
of my clients getting rid ofthat.
But where are the answers?
Where's the guidelines?
Where's the backup plan?
Where's all those things?
Like, no, we don't have that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
You have to figure it out.
In my brain, it was the timelinebecause there was always a
timeline in school, yeah, untilthe test, okay, right next
quarter, yeah, next test, nextquiz, next class.
There was always set intimelines.
Whereas when you get out intothe real world and you're
(27:31):
running a business, there's notimelines.
There's there's no timeline,there's no guidebook.
There's no there's it's sodifferent, and our brains
literally have to grasp thosechanges.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Yeah, exactly.
So, and you do have to changethe you have to change the way
you think in the end, yeah,which is the perfectionist, you
want your surgeon to be aperfectionist for sure.
I was a massive perfectionist,and having to let go of that.
Oh, for example, if you want, Idon't know, create a landing
page, the simplest thing.
Every single thing has to beperfect because when you're
(28:06):
there tying up vessels andstuff, yeah, you want that thing
to be very as close to perfectas you possibly can because
people's lives are on the line.
And in entrepreneurship, youhave to let go of that, and you
have to be like, no, failure isa hundred percent part of it.
You you're not gonna getanywhere without failing a
bunch, and being able to takethat without having your nervous
(28:30):
system connect that to failurein medicine, especially as a
cancer surgeon.
Let me tell you, that's not fun.
SPEAKER_01 (28:35):
Oh guilty as charged, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Even when you're you did, I remember when I was a
slone catering, one of mypatients from Brazil, she showed
metastasis showed up and sheended up dying pretty quickly.
And I went to my boss, who isone of the most respected
surgeons in the world, and Itold her, like, oh, this is I
showed her all the exams,everything that I did, and she
(28:58):
has to stop, look at me.
I'm like, you did everythingright.
Sometimes the biology is justthe biology, and she just had a
very uh aggressive cancer.
Yes, it was early stage, but thebiologically was still very
aggressive.
And the the for me to get graspthe no, that's not my fault that
she died, it was so hard.
(29:20):
And those kinds of things,whenever you face failure, quote
unquote, in entrepreneurship.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
I don't know, if someone had a mean comment on
your YouTube video or whatever,still you want something and no
one's bought, or like one personbought.
Yeah, people just see the oneswhere I've won so big, people
see the ones where I did itanyways, not knowing what the
outcome was, and it was anegative or a well, that really
(29:46):
sucked.
What happened there?
Kind of moment, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
Or when a client is mad at you, because you you
know, as a coach, you piss offclients sometimes because you
have to tell them, like, yeah,it's kind of like there's a lot
of stuff that you're getting inyour way as a client of coaches.
I can't.
Can't attest that it does notfeel good.
When you're like, what am I theproblem?
No, I'm not the problem.
Everybody else is the problem.
So obviously, and having to dealwith that is, you know, your
(30:10):
nervous system goes straightinto, oh my God, like that
reaction that you had whensomething went wrong in
medicine.
So being able to increase yourcapability to for failure is
essential for entrepreneurship.
So that's why the business thatI do now, yes, like create all
the tech.
(30:31):
I would do like the website, thebranding, all that stuff, but
also the coaching, because youcan have all the websites and
branding and your offer and yourcontent, everything.
And if your mindset is correct,you're not gonna do things,
you're not gonna try it out,you're not gonna put yourself
out there, you're not gonnalaunch the thing, you're not
gonna, you know, keep goingbecause entrepreneurship is
basically, yeah, you have tokeep going with the rejection,
(30:52):
with the failure and all that.
And that's just how it's goingto be.
It's never gonna be like, oh,now I've arrived and I have no
issues anymore.
That's that's never gonna be thecase.
SPEAKER_01 (31:01):
Yeah, there's no test, there's no deadline,
there's no gold star.
You did it.
There's no like A, B, C, D, E,yeah, but A, B, C, D, and then
F.
Like, yeah, F just comes as partof the journey.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (31:17):
And I do trained in that way, and I do think that
that, you know, going back tothe brain health thing, I think
that just like learning a secondor a third language, you
increase your brain pathways andall that stuff, and you you
increase your brain health whenyou do that.
I think moving from a medical,the medical world or even job
(31:38):
job, like if you always had ajob and then you become an
entrepreneur, it's kind of thesame thing.
But med medicine is more becauseyou're just so all-encompassing.
I think that's kind of likelearning a new language because
you have to learn all of thosenew things.
The people that come to me forfor my business, they're like, I
don't know where to press on thethings.
I don't know, like the tech isjust, I was just having a
conversation with a clientyesterday.
(31:58):
She was like, I hate tech.
I cannot at least.
It was like, yeah, that's whyyou hire me.
I will deal with that until youincrease your capacity because
it does take a long time.
So, what I want to provide islet me handle that stuff and
slowly give it to you while youhave a business, instead of you
having to take five years toincrease your capacity by
(32:19):
yourself while having to learnall the tech and do all the
things and learn this newlanguage of entrepreneurship,
which is very much, I would evensay almost more than a new
language because there's so muchmore that requires of there's
required of your nervous systemthat you know that also
increases your capacity in manyways, brain-wise.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
Well, we've talked about so much today, and we've
covered so much along yourjourney.
What's one tip that you canleave individuals on helping
them create that unshakablebrain, especially as they make
go through a transition in life?
Because you've been throughmany, and I'm in one right now.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
Yeah, don't believe everything you think.
Oh, that's good.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Don't believe everything you think.
SPEAKER_00 (33:07):
Yeah, because our brains are they want us to
survive.
Our brains are not interested inus being happy, in us thriving,
in us, none of that.
Your brain just wants you to notdie.
That is the mission.
So if you take everything youbelieve and that you think with
a grain of salt and you actuallyquestion it with just one
(33:31):
simple, you know, whenever youhave a thought, you can just ask
yourself, is that true?
Can I be sure that it's true?
Who says?
Because a lot of times gonna belike, oh, my third grade teacher
or my mom or whatever.
Like it's gonna be that personwho implanted that thing in your
brain, and like, oh no.
For example, oh, you're not goodat with money, so you shouldn't
be an entrepreneur.
Who said that?
(33:52):
Where did you learn that?
You know, like ask yourselfthose questions, those truths
that you're very much no, Ican't do that because okay,
let's examine that, let's makesure that that is true and that
you can't do the thing becauseof that, or that's just a
thought that you repeated somany times that it became a
belief, and now you think as itis the law of gravity, you know,
it's not that's the truth, thelot of gravity.
(34:14):
Maybe you not being good withmoney is not, and even if you're
not, you can learn, right?
SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
Right, all right.
Don't believe everything youthink.
That's our end of chat today.
Call to action.
So next time you have a thoughtthat you're just like, Oh, don't
believe it.
Don't believe everything youthink.
I am Dr.
Kylie.
This is Dr.
Manuela, and uh, doctor, wherecan they find you?
(34:40):
Specifically, practitioners whowant to pivot their business.
SPEAKER_00 (34:44):
Oh, love that that word because it is the word, the
name of my business,drespot.com.
You can have all the informationabout my business.
And if you want to connect withme on my personal Instagram,
it's DR Manuela Powell onInstagram and all the social
media.
And that's my chaotic dancingkids, life, business, everything
(35:07):
all together.
I love connecting with people.
If you do follow me there,please send me a DM and let's
get to know each other.
unknown (35:13):
Cool.
SPEAKER_01 (35:13):
All right, you have heard it on Unshakable Brain.
If you would be so just take aminute and leave a review and
send this podcast to a friend, Iwould greatly appreciate it.
Next time.
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