Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, I'm Sierra and welcome back to another episode
of The Unsolved Couple, where every week Ben and I
recap one of your original Gateway drugs.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Nutrue crime, unsolved mysteries.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome back to the table, Ben, come back, you guys.
The look on Ben's face right now, hands are in
his head, gripping his the side of his head.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Good.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
You are such a liar, so good?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Right to rock and roll?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Do?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
You want to get back to your video game?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I do?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
But no, you guys. Ben doesn't have social media, so
he's not really ever on his phone, and I'm not
ever worried about like anything weird crazy happening. But I've
noticed that the last week or so, mostly just last
few days, that's been on his phone a lot. And
(01:15):
then when he's on his phone, I will say things
to him and get nothing, to the point where I thought,
at one point you had your earbuds.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
In a right. I do this. I do this a lot.
I will get into something, a game or something, and
I'll play it for two weeks NonStop.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
It doesn't interfere NonStop on your free time. It's the
very first thing that you do when Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I'm very I try to be very categorized with my time,
but there are times in the day it is just
you know, it's in between X, Y or Z. Yeah,
So I will get a game and I will play,
Like I got into chess, and I just was playing
Chess on my phone for weeks on it, not weeks,
(02:14):
literally two weeks, and then I just get bored and
I'm done with it. Yeah, and then I probably won't
even play another game for months even. Yeah, but I
got I've been playing the shooting game on my phone
and I'm in it and I'm just playing, and that's
how I've been spending my free time. And yeah, when
(02:39):
I'm in it.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I he's hyper focused.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
To the point I had not quite.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I literally thought the other day you had earbuds in.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
No, I just am not paying attention. Yeah. I try
to be good about just like, if I'm in something,
I'm going to just leave me alone and let me
let me focus on this.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And sometimes and how does that? How does that work
out having a wife and children. I'm usually focused on
this right now, So if you everyone could just leave
me alone.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I'm usually not that way when I'm home, but every
once in a while, I get in something and I'm
zoned in and now you say, now, I'm like, I
probably shouldn't be doing this with any of my time,
but I'll probably keep it up for maybe another week.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
There's nothing wrong with like it. It's okay to have
downtime with nothing to do. That's when I sit down
and watch TikTok and Instagram reels.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, and I'm not I don't have Instagram. I'm not
not a social media person. But I'll get in this.
I'll go for about another week or two, and then
I'll be bored with it, and.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Then you guys will have enthusiastic bend back. I don't
think has anyone ever categorized you as enthusiastic.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I don't think that word has ever been used to
describe me.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
All right, Well, as we get into this episode, I
do have a quick silly story to share with our friends,
just of life.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Okay, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So I don't only ask Ben how is this week?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Da? Da da da?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And he doesn't really have a ton of report, unless
did anything crazy happen to you that you want to share?
So a couple of days ago, I had tickets to
a live podcast show and it's a true crime podcast.
And I've listened to these people for years and they
(04:39):
were up in Phoenix and we live in Tucson. So
I told Ben like months, maybe a month ago, Hey,
I'm going to go up there. I'm actually just going
to get a hotel room because it's in Scottsdeel. It's
like two and a half hour drive from our house
to there, and the last thing I want to be
doing at eleven o'clock at nine is driving that much
(05:03):
on the freeway. And honestly, I love you guys. I
don't get super dressed up all the time, but when
I like get out, like in an outfit, to go
out and have some fun and be cute, I love
that time. I like last my nineties music and it's
a whole thing. And so I was cry about this.
(05:24):
So I got up there. First off, you guys, I
left my driver's license at home, so I drove all
the ways. It's okay, well, let's just we don't need
to tell everything.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Where's your light? Where is your idea? Right now?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Okay? Well, now, thanks to the incident, it's I have
it on my phone.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Okay, but where is your physical idea?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Ninety percent sure? It's in my wallet. Oh no, it's not.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
It's not it's in my wallet.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
In your wallet. We were not dancing, okay, So yeah,
first problem number one was I go to check in
my hotel room and I actually did this to the app.
So normally you don't even have to talk to someone.
But when I walked in the late the girl's super
kind complimented something about my shoes or something, and I
was talking to her and she's like, let me just
grab you a physical coffee because you're on the fourth
(06:14):
floor and sometimes the app doesn't work and then you
have to come back down here. Anyways, great, So she's like,
I just need to see a copy of your driver's
life and so I open up my wallet and it's
nowhere to be found. And every email that I had
gotten from the venue was saying you have to have
(06:40):
your ID for your tickets. I think this is to
prevent like resales and crazy like that. The name on
the ticket has to match your ID or you will
not be admitted in. So I call Ben, who's holding
the fourth down, and we can cut this if this
story is too long already. Anyways, Ben, bless his heart,
(07:00):
is trying to get our daughter out the door for
ballet while I'm on the phone almost in tears because
I don't want to miss this. I just drove three
hours to get up here, and I can't even go
out and do anything. I can't go sit, I can't
go out dance, and I can't do anything. I have
no idea I shouldn't even be driving. And so thankfully
we were able to. I was able to actually get
(07:22):
it uploaded to my phone through trickery of like Ben
facetiming me on my computer and me standing my driver's
license through them.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
It was long.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
It was an hour long plussus and by then, like
I was exhausted.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Now you've wasted an hour of your free time.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, and I'd only gotten up there like two hours
before the show, and so I'm like frantically getting ready.
It's one hundred and eighteen degrees up in Phoenix that
weekend or that day. I'm sweating. This is like not really,
I'm not having fun at this point. Like I had
(08:01):
a lawny caramel apple drink all were like poured and
ready to go, like I was gonna get my caffeine fixed.
And anyways, none of the stuff had taken place. I
ended up even forgetting that I had my drink, so
I had no caffeine in my system. I didn't even
get a chance to eat. And most venues are like
(08:22):
the doors open at this time, and if you show
up late, you don't get in. And so I'm in
a city that I don't know. I am rushing. I'm
in my own head. I go downstairs. If I get dressed,
I go downstairs. I walk out of the elevator, and
sitting in the lobby literally staring me at the face,
are the two hosts from the show.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Right there, right there waiting for you now with your ID.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah. They're like, hey, moving down Tucson and got this
for you. And they looked distressed. And I'm thinking, I'm
running late, and I'm a person watching.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
The show and I'm running like to their show.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
And they're not at their show. And so now that
all of this happens in my head in a second,
and instead of acting like a normal human being and
going up and introducing yourself running, I just blurt out
across the lobby, hey do you guys need a ride
to the show, and dead stop. Everyone in the hotel
(09:23):
turns and looks at me and you, guys, this is
what it's like to have adhds that sometimes things just
fall out of your mouth and your internal monologue that
you got there you forget to fill everybody else in
where you're at. And they both look at me and
that I one of them. I think it might have been.
(09:45):
Ellen said, excuse me, because here's the thing in the
world of podcasting, people a lot of people know who
you are, but a lot of people don't. And We're
just at a Hilton in Scottsdale, and I'm like I
at that point, like pause and I said, oh my gosh,
I'm so sorry. I like walk hop to I like
put my hand out to like shake their hand, and
(10:07):
I was like, I just I assumed I'm going to
your show. And she says to me, oh my gosh,
we actually, like Harris, their like producer had to get
there earlier than they did, and multiple ubers canceled on her.
And that's I had actually had plan on taking one
(10:28):
of those driverless cars over there, but I couldn't get one.
Like we were in a weird place. Anyways, Long story short,
I a true crime podcast host, invited two other true
crime podcast hosts were strangers with each other. One is
a male, one is a female. They're best friends. I'm
a female by myself. Introduce asked these people to get
(10:51):
into my van a stranger as stranger danger, and I
shall take them to their location. Anyways, it all worked out.
It all worked out, and then I spent the rest
of the show feeling like embarrassed and like replaying in
my head like are you mad at me? As everyone
hate me? Like what's going on? I can't believe. I
even text Ben in the show and I'm like, I'm
(11:12):
so stressed out. But overall, was a great time.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And I said, just have a good time.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
This is but that is just a snapshot into my life.
You guys. Sorry that went on for way too long.
But every once in a while I get a moment
where I'm like, I want to share this with my
podcast friends.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So it's a good story.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
All right. We are diving back into Amy Bradley. I
think that we can get through episode two and three today.
Ben is also hoping the same thing because he misses
unsolved mysteries. Let's be honest, No, but yes.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I I don't want to tell you about this case
for another If we're getting through this in this episode
we no matter. I get through it in about ten minutes. Okay, well,
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
I was gonna say, great, all right, well why don't
you take it away?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Then? That's right I started this time. All right.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I love that I tried to like hand you the ball.
And this is last episode. If you guys have listened
to it, there were several times that seamlessly, I just
kind of stopped talking as much and Ben took over
and it was this organic flow and then then goes
Ben goes, oh, this is that's right. I'm supposed to
talk now. And those are the notes in the show
that don't need to be passed on. When I said
(12:43):
I want to take it away, you could have just started,
but instead it's oh.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
That's right, I'm starting. I am good with that. That's
just how my life goes. Life for me is blunt.
You just say it, do this, let's get this on
your responsibility. I need someone to just be blunt with me,
and so I in return and blunt with everybody. Okay,
(13:09):
all right. Episode two. We end it episode one on
a cliffhanger.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
This guy comes in and says, I saw her.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, she's alive.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
She's alive. Yeah, already, guys, ready to figure out.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
The caveat to that.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, we're introduced to David Carmichael. He says, in Yeah,
August of nineteen ninety eight, he was in curros Out.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
And this is about six months, so six months.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Cruise was in March. He's in curros Out. He's in
this little part of the island called Porto Maria and
it's really only known by the locals. Him.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
My favorite thing to find on vacation is the where
the locals go, he said.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
The beach is pretty much empty, and he's hanging out
there and he sees three people walking up on the beach.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, he just finished a dive. He's cleaning off his equipment.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, and he sees two guys and a girl. And
he notices the girl and he went to go talk
to her.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
She walked up to him.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
She walked up to him. He goes to talk to her.
In this one guy like steps in front of him
and just stares at him.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, kind of just yeah, this weird.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
It was very weird. It was very uncomfortable. So if
he hadn't stared at him, he probably wouldn't even remember him.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
But yeah, he did something about this interaction yet, and this.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Girl was a white girl who had, according to him,
Tasmanian devil tattoo on her arm. That's important. Of the nineties,
that's important because Amy Bradley had a Tasmanian devil tattoo.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
There was something in the nineties with people getting Mooney
Tune characters tattoos.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
You know, but look through everything. Tattoos is a fat
or phase.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
It's a trend, right, Yeah, whatever's trend.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Certain tattoos are phases. Remember the Chinese symbol on the
back that was so close, the barbed wire around the arm.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You guys, I almost got that stupid Chinese signal tattooed.
Butterfly in the back, yeah, butterfly on the butterfly on
the foot, Stars on the foot.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Something. But there was a there was a trend for
a while that there was a lot of.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Light each that Looney Tunes was a trend of tweeting.
But at this time I was a young tweety.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Bird tweety is it tweeting?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Tweet the bird?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I think there's a lot of those. But yeah, I
cannot stand the tan Man's meaning devil by the way.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Well, not just that. I just want to hear some
crazy best here. She isn't like learning tunes, she is.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
They're just obnoxious.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I love I know you do.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I've never gone a huge friend.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
And if we continue to talk about it, it could
end the marriage. It just this could be the caveat
that ends eighteen years of marriage right here, lonely tunes.
I'm getting a testimonian devil tech ti.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Oh my goodness, if you find that I'm getting a
Trump stamp, you can't say that. Okay, I'm getting a
butterfly tattooed on my back with Chinese symbols floating out
of its butterfly wings.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I'm here for it. I support that. I just want
you to know I support you.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Oh my goodness, continue with your story, my love.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Okay, I digress. Anyways, that is a very distinct tattoo.
He notices it on this girl. So he says, listen,
and then when he sees the picture of Yellow the
bass player, he says, that was the guy that stared
(17:24):
me down. End of story. That's that's all we get
from that story. Yeah, so he thinks she's still alive
on the island. Okay, now we go back.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
We're going to rewind rewind.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
The Bradley family comes home. They pretty much set up
a command center at their house. The parents and the
family are doing everything they can. They are calling embassies,
every law enforcement agency that they can. They're doing everything
they can.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Everything that was within their control because so many people
had ignored that he had power to do something. The
things they did have power of they did and did
them endlessly.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So the dad and the brother on April seventeenth, nineteen
ninety eight, they go back to Curosu and they hold
a press conference and they're just asking for information. I
think here was an award of two hundred and sixty
thousand dollars. Wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
That's a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
That is a lot of money, yeah, especially back then.
So they get done doing this press conference, the dad
comes out and he runs into a guy by the
name of Deshi. He is a taxi driver, and he says, hey,
(18:51):
your daughter's on the island. He tells of a story
that he was out in his taxi one day several
weeks prior and Amy had come up to his taxi,
knocked in the window, said hey, I need to use
a phone, and he pointed to the pay phone and
(19:13):
she went over and used it, and for some reason,
he knows that they should go to a place called
Choral Cliffs and could she clips and that's where they
should look for Amy. How he knows that we don't know, Yes,
he said, So the dad and the brother get together
(19:38):
with the chief of police, who we talked about.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, so it sounds like they actually talked to the
police about this tip. Yeah, And he's like, that's you
can go to those places and look around, but you
cannot go on a company.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yes, So they talked to the chief and he's like, listen,
you don't go.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
To that are beautiful and amazing, but they're are parts
of this island that are not safe.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He says, they're run by the mafia, mafia type people there.
So they go out there, they start driving around and
they're just looking for any types of clues.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And he even says trafficking is real on this island
and it is dangerous.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah. So, but they don't come up with anything. There's nothing.
So then America's Most Wanted featured her story on December fifth,
nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
And that's where that guy saw the picture, right, Yeah, yeah,
that's you. Know we're connecting. How he the guy.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
That said, ye, yeah, yeah he saw on the guy
that told the story on the beach. He saw her
story on America's Most Wanted he calls. He gives that
tip to the FBI.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
So on.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
So then the big question is, now, did Amy walk
off the ship or is it possible that she was
smuggled off the ship?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, that's where we don't know. The FBI gets this tip,
he swears it was her and that it was yellow,
and you know, that's that's his story. So this is
our first This is kind of what this episode is.
It's a lot of theories, but I won't don't want
to say theories, but it's a lot of people telling, hey,
(21:45):
we we think we saw this, this is this is
what we're looking for. But again, this is a FBI
is going to run into some problems here because it's
like they can just show up on that island and
start digging around talking to people. So all right, So
then they kind of start telling us about Amy's life,
(22:08):
that she was a lesbian and she had come out
in college.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, and her parents to their parents, it.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Was hard for them, it was hard for her. So
their question got brought up, Okay, was this hard for her?
Was her for her family? Did it create some riffs
to the point where she might have committed suicide? So
that's our next theory. Is this possible that she committed suicide?
(22:41):
They don't think so, because she had a lot going on.
She graduated, she got in an apartment, which at that
age it's a big deal. She was about to get
her own independence, she'd just gotten an English bulldog, just
gotten a dog, and she's talking to her friends about planes.
(23:01):
When she gets.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Back her friends, this is going to be the fun
new hangout place.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Not really the type of.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, there's no perfect scenaria of why and when, but
but you have to look at all this, do have
to Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You have to look at all this stuff and say
does it lead us to this conclusion? Right? And there's
just not a lot there that would lead them to
think that she committed Inside.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
It doesn't help up that that on the balcony, they
did find her shoes, like neatly tucked under a table
that was also propped up against the railing like.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
That, Yeah, her shoes were out there. There was a
table next to the balcony. Is it possible that she is.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
That table has to ask that question.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Because we talked about it last. Because they don't have
any they have to look at everything. So, was she trafficked? Get?
Did she get? Did she walk off voluntarily go to
that taxi and then get or did yellow do something
to sex trafficker off of it? And this guy saw
her on the beach? Did she commit? So is that
(24:16):
we don't know? Yeah, these are all the possibilities. Yeah,
so now we get told the wildest story. Yeah, this
is a wild story. We get a guy that comes up.
His name is Bill Hellner. Did I say that right?
Do you have his name?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I have a Well, here's the thing, maybe I have.
It is h f Though Hefner. Hefner.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Okay, Yeah. He was in the Navy for twenty years, retired,
he says in January of nineteen ninety nine, so little
less than a year since her disappearance.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, he says.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
They docked and curious okay, And he goes inward and
he's just looking to get a drink.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, according to him, he's looking for a bar.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, looking for a bar. Goes to this bar. There's
a guy outside with that.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
You know, what does he first say about the bar,
I just found a random bar that had a hotel
on top, so it seems totally normal. First off, we
don't know what the location of this place is. They
don't give it to us. I highly doubt that that
was some motel eight curse ow style. I think this
very clearly is what we end up figuring out it is.
(25:40):
I think he knew that one hundred and fifty percent
before he walked in there.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I think that's probably safe. But he finds this bar
with the hotel above. There's a guy outside with a
with a guy gun in his waistband. He goes in,
he orders a drink. As he does that, a guy
and two girls come down the stairs.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Okay, and I have two men and two women come
down the stairs. Both the men are armed.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Okay, yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, he knows. So now we've got potentially three guns
in play. I also find he says in there, like
the moment he walks in, these two men kind of
show up with these two women. We can see what
is happening here, right, So he says, he grabs a drink.
The two men freely leave the women at his table
(26:39):
and walk off, but they stay.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
In the bar, stay close by. Well, we all know
what is transfering.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, and he says, there's a Hispanic woman and a
white woman. The Hispanic woman leaves the table it sounds
like to go get a drink from the bar. And
the women the female femilian's over to him and says,
they're holding me against my will. My name is Amy Bradley.
(27:09):
She tells him this story that she walked off the
ship looking to find some drugs okay, and has been
stuck with these men being held ever since. However, when
the other woman comes back, she like shuts down the conversation, right,
(27:35):
I think she says something like she needs two hundred
bucks or something like that. But once he says there's
a huge shift in her tone and behavior that once
the other guy come or once the female other female
comes back, she instantly gets quiet, gets small and stops
talking and just kind of like, don't say anything. Bill
then lets us know that he chooses to just leave
(27:57):
quietly at that point because in his line of work
he has encountered many working women. Yeah, every story in
the book.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Why how are you hearing all these stories? Where are
you going?
Speaker 1 (28:16):
This guy? So I will say this, this guy. I
hold men, especially men in the armed forces and in
law enforcement, to a higher standard than I hold every
day man. I still hold men in general to high expectations.
(28:38):
I do believe in honor and integrity and chivalrous behavior.
So when I hear that this man, being in a
position of power and having resources and access to those,
hear this story and it doesn't seem to affect him
(29:00):
because he's chosen to participate in hiring prostitutes for his
life and this is a common occurrence to him. I
this guy, Yeah, I don't know, I whatever, he I
just I don't care for him. He could, He's just
(29:21):
obviously I expect more from men, and he showed again
that they let us down often. So he decides to
leave quietly because, in his words, he doesn't want any
trouble with the two guys or three guys that have guns.
Years later, when he sees Amy's picture in the news,
(29:44):
he then decides to report this, and he tells us
that he didn't after he left Kiris, I didn't really
even think of Amy ever. Again, standard pro quo, run
of the mill behavior. And then he sees this picture
and it reminds me of this memory and decides to
go to the FBI about it, and he says, listen,
(30:06):
I didn't want this was what I was doing was
frowned upon, and I didn't want to get bumped down
in my ranking. And I was only a few years
away from retirement, and so that could have effected what
my retirement looked like. So I chose to stay quiet.
(30:29):
But I'm coming forward now because coming forward is the
right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Might have been the right thing right then and there.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, yeah, my guy, that is yeah. I don't put
a lot of stock into polygraphs, especially men who have
no honor and integrity. But he says he took he
take a polygraph test and passed it. So you know,
the FBI again, they go to the island, they look around.
It's years after the fact that they can't confess are
(31:00):
many things. So once again we just have another story
blowing around in the wind and nothing to tie it
down to other than the fact that there has been
now a handful of people reporting seeing Amy Bradley on
these islands. I mean that boocket is getting heavier, right
(31:20):
if we look at theories as buckets and we're putting
stuff in. So the question is could Amy have been trafficked?
I would like to point out this is just from
the very little research that I've done on trafficking. I'm
not an expert. I have no degree or education in
(31:41):
any way shape or formatists. Typically people that are pretty
and get lots of attention and a lot of people
notice them, and they're with their families and they are
not high that's usually not who's trafficked, because there's a
lot of highlights on that, which again doesn't help this
(32:05):
situation any way. She performed because is it possible? Yeah,
it is, but it's not usually who is traffic. Human
trafficking is an insane international problem. It's typically not the
young pretty girl with her whole family. But I don't know,
you have some what are your thoughts on?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I mean, anything's possible, and.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
That's what just documentaries like frustrated. This whole story is
frustrating in that way. Is that anything is possible?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, yeah, so but it was a Brad comes on
her brother and says, listen, my sister had enjoyed parting.
She had a good time, but she was not into drugs.
That is one thing that part of his story is
weird to me.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
It is weird, and no one else they also friends, family.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
No one knew her to be a drug user, let alone.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Enough to drug history with that at all.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
To on top of that, to also then try to
go get it on an island where she didn't know anyone, Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Just leave her family, Yeah to do it. It is
very at a character especially, It's not like that was
day one. She's been with her family, They've been doing
everything together for multiple days to then just randomly decide
to get off and go try to score drugs to
the point where then she's now held captive.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, there's a part of me that wonders if he's
remembering everything correctly or if she was just trying to
tell this guy anything that she could that he might
take some sympathy on her. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
So there's no way of knowing one way from the other.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, So we kind of get there was some strange
incidences on the cruise ship that maybe individually or if
this other thing hadn't happened, wouldn't have been that big
of a deal. But now, like Gamie's mom is interviewed
and she tells us like we have to now scrutinize
(34:15):
every single second, because this wasn't likely just some happenstance
weird thing unless she fell off right this so they
have to try to see if any if they missed
anything along the way. So there's a few incidences on
the cruise itself that looking back might have a little
bit more of a sinister thing to him. Everyone noticed
(34:39):
in her family that Amy was getting a lot of
attention from the staff, to the point where one at
the formal night dinner, Amy leaves the table to go
to the bathroom or something, and one of the staff
members I think it was a server, comes up to
her table and asks directly where is Amy. To mom
(35:00):
and dad, and they didn't really think anything of it,
but they said that they wanted to take Amy off
to go to a bar in a Ruba somewhere. Now
I don't know if that meant that night or if
that was the following day, I don't know, but they leave,
Amy comes back. Amy's mother says, hey, some of the
(35:20):
staff wants you to go with them to a bar
and a ruba And she was like, absolutely not, I'm
not leaving the ship the ship with people I don't
know which. Then to me echoes the fact that why
would she be looking for drugs? Yeah, yeah, yea. So
two that same night, I have a notice is that
(35:41):
there is a man just above them, like up on
like an upper balcony or something, intently looking at them,
to the point where she says, like they made out
eye contact a few times, and she kind of puts
her hands up to him like can I help you? Like,
am I missing something? What's going on? And then she
(36:02):
goes down to like pick up her purse or her
bag or something, and then notices that he's not there anymore. Again,
maybe on a normal day that this wouldn't really mean anything,
but she's having to look through everything.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, I mean she's trying to think ending in everything
that could lead to some type of clue.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah. And then the other thing that happened that was
really weird was so on formal night, we've all seen
these pictures. There's always a photographer there as you're waiting
to go into your reservation time for dinner, and because
everyone's all dressed up, they take family they take a
group photo of everyone dressed up, and so after dinner
(36:46):
they go into the gallery where the photos are hanging
on the wall, and then you can purchase them, and
they go in there and it sounds like it might
have just been like Amy or mom and her brother.
I'm not sure where Ron was at this time. But
the camera guy who also printed off the photos recognizes
(37:06):
them and says, oh, yeah, you guys are right over here.
I'm sure he's been looking at all these pictures. Da
da da da dah. Come over here. He walks them
over to this area and he's like, that's weird. It's
not on the wall anymore. Maybe I put it down.
So he starts looking through other photos. He's looking behind pictures,
he's looking in boxes. He cannot find these photos anywhere,
(37:28):
but he knows he took them. He knows he printed
them out, and he knows where he put him somewhere,
and now they're missing.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Well, they say there's an empty spot on the wall.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, and so, again, not really thinking anything of it,
the mom says, well, can you grab a couple more photos?
And this is where some of the iconic photos we
see on this documentary are from. But if you notice,
there's no family photos. There's not eveny of the mom,
where the dad from that night, it's just Amy by herself.
(37:55):
And then Amy and her brother. Yeah, yeah, And so
then they get those and like that's all done. It's
possible that these were all coincidences, but could they be
signs that Amy was being targeted or followed in any way,
shape or form. So by two thousand and one, and
new FBI agent is now taking over. He's a special
(38:16):
Agent in charge, Michael Clark, And in the meantime, the
Bradley House has become headquarters for the search. Calls are
pouring in at all hours of the night because this
is worldwide. Now, emails start to roll in, lots of
helpful things, but we start to see what we see
(38:38):
every time you see a family in grief at me started,
I do not understand. And there's a special place in
hell for these people. They get their rocks off by
torturing people in their worst times.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I don't understand. I don't know how these people exist
and who they are.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Did you even realize that was a thing in the
world of true crime? Before watching all these unsolved mysteries
and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I didn't realize there were so many people out there
that just like to torture families for no reason whatsoever.
And we've I mean we've seen it on multiple episodes
of Unsolved Mysteries, and it makes me sick. Yeah, because
the mom tells like, they're getting phone calls your daughters here,
(39:28):
this happened to her, This happened, and.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
The descriptions of torture happening to her everything.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, And here's the thing as a family who knows
nothing and the fact of you guys literally haven't been
able to.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Nail a single thing down, eliminate anything.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
These nasty, terrible people are telling them things, and there's
got to be a part of you that says, is
this one true? Or is this one true? Is this
a threat I need to pull on? And that is
just it's torture. Yeah, I can't even imagine. No.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
And she's at the same time, though, she's like, I
have to comb through these and decide which ones take serious.
And I still have to question the ones I don't
take serious. Did I miss something exactly? And so in
two thousand and five, a chilling email arrives with photos attached.
They come from a website in the Caribbeans and in
(40:31):
Venezuela area with women to hire for prostitution. The FBI
runs forensics analysis on these photos that are sent to
the family. It's a photo of female and I think
there's two of them that are sent and she's in
a provocative pose, obviously posing for adult entertainment work of
(40:54):
some sort. But again, people change son seven years and
if this is Amy, it's been seven hard years. Yeah,
not not easy. And so the FBI, obviously this is
(41:20):
a huge lead. I think Michael, special Agent in charge
Clark says, this is the strongest lead they've had.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah. So they take these photos and they have the
FBI forensically analyzes them, and the FBI says officially that
they do believe that the woman in the photos is
Amy Bradley. It's very strong. They can't eliminate that. It's
(41:53):
not very strong possible. They can't find any major discrepancies
that it's not her.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah. They talk about the different future or chin line,
her ears, her nose, all that stuff that they analyze,
and it appears to be a match.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, what do you think about it?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
It is two thousand and five. The pictures aren't the
best quality, and the best quality so a little graininess
can make your chin. It's hard to match.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
But they were also comparing it with photos from that
time too.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, yeah, I just.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
It's one more thing.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, possible, absolutely, also possible. It's just a female that
looks a lot like her. But he's right. I mean,
it's your best lead you've got, and it's worth trying
to chase down.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Absolutely, I mean as right now, you got to take
every lead, and you got to you gotta.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
And I would say, no one's ever come forward and
said that was me. I was, you know, a sex
worker on an island at that time, and I think
all the women there are not their right choice. Yeah,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Fortunately, even if it's not her, which she probably has
no way to speak and say, hey, that that was
actually me, just goes a show. That's some terrible things
in the world.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah. So this photo they decide to release to the
public smart and try to figure out any information they
can glean from it. So the Bradleys appear on the
Doctor Phil Show, which was huge at the time, Good
old Doctor Phil. Do you know the story of how
Doctor Phil and oprah Met?
Speaker 2 (43:52):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Oh, that's a story for another day, but it's actually
quite fascinating and actually has weirdly enough to do with
true crime.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Surprise.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, So Judy is the next talking head that is introduced,
and she tells us a story of one she's watching
the Doctor Phil episode, a memory that surfaced.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, this is another wild story.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
So she sees that episode of Doctor Phil and says,
I recognize that girl. I know her saw She says
that she saw Amy or the female in that photo
in Barbados in March of two thousand and five. They
were they said they were in Barbados. They're in like
(44:48):
a bridgetown bar shopping area. They're out shopping. She stops
at this place she has to use the restroom and
goes into the restroom, and as she's in there, she
hears men's voices come in. She us, people come in
in men's voices.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, which when you're a female sitting in the bathroom
and you hear men's voices, I bet, especially when you're
in a foreign country that's going to you're going to
stop for a second and pay attention real quick at
what's happening.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
And so she just hears one of the men say
the deals at eleven o'clock, you better be ready to go.
Then the men left. Then she says, there's a girl
at the sink. So she goes out and is washing
her hands. She sees this girl. She looks like she's
(45:42):
in distress. She asked her her name, ask her name,
and she says in a Southern accent that her name
was Amy. She asks her where are you from? And
the girl's pretty quiet, kept her head down. She thought
she heard her say West Virginia.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
So she tries to make conversation.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Like because Judy's daughter's name Amy also, and she has
some type of ties to she's just trying to find it.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
As from the States.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Judy's from the South. So she's trying to be kind
and friendly and make this girl feel a little bit
more comfortable. And I think it's almost trying to be like,
you can talk to me. I have a daughter your age.
Her name is Amy, like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
So the lady then just like turns to Judy and
faces off with her. Backs are into a wall. So
it's got really weird.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
She doesn't like say anything to her.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
No, she doesn't say anything to her. She goes to
leave and as she opens the door, there's a man
standing there blocking the door.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I would be freaking out. And yeah, she says, the
best thing she could do was play ignorant tourist.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah, so she did that, and she she got out
of there safely, thankfully, thankfully. But so she sees the son,
doctor Phil. What does she do. She instantly calls the
FBI says, hey, this and tells her story. So again,
one more story, one more lead.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
FBI tries. They go to this area, they talk to
the shop owner. There's no.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
It's a long time after So what do you do.
There's no way to id any of these people.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah, they have just another haunting lead.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
No idea.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah. So yeah, and that's kind of where episode two
please you.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Well, we end with the episode and the fact of
they sit down with the daughter.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
They don't sit down with her, so I haven't here,
Like let's see. Oh, you hear a voicemail, the phone ringing,
and then you hear a voicemail that says that it's
from Yellow's daughter, Amika Douglas, the daughter of the ship's
(48:19):
bass player.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
So really, I mean, at the end of the day,
Episode two is a lot of supposed sightings and a
lot of theories could she have Mostly the only two
theories that really come up is was she trafficked or
did she commit suicide?
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (48:42):
The FBI pretty much tells us, we don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, we have not been able to eliminate I was like,
they do stay in there that, like, they make it
clear that they don't think that she chose to take
her own life, you know. But again that's just a
guy feeling that the FBI has.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Little They still they can't close that out.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Can't close it out. So yeah, the top of episode three,
which is called Message in a Bottle, we open with
Amy's mom and she's walking us up the attic stairs
to the family home. And you want to have a
(49:26):
good cry, you can turn on the top of this
episode and watch it because it's heartbreaking. She's kept all
of Amy's things, but more specifically, she's kept Amy's bags
from the trip. They're still packed and she's pulling them
out and no joke, you guys, she's pulling these bags
(49:50):
out and pulling things out of them. She's like full
on ugly sobbing. She can't barely keep it too, like,
and the producer asked her, like, how long since you've
looked at this? And she's like, I haven't been up
here and looked through these things in twenty years. She
and like the mom's like crying, like she was supposed
to come home, she was supposed to unpack these things.
(50:11):
These were her this was her stuff. And I'm like,
oh my goodness, this is absolutely heartbreaking to watch. And
then Amy's Brad Amy Bradley, Amy's brother, Brad kind of
shares some personal stuff about how much this has deeply
(50:32):
affected their life, Like he's like, our lives have been
divided into the before and the after, like what life
was then and what it is now, And there is
a stark line in the sand on that. He says,
everything stopped. Essentially his life in his parents' life stopped
(50:53):
the day Amy went missing, and in many ways it's
just never started again. Brad even admits to us he
has like never had children, and even at age forty eight,
he can't bring himself to like having children because of
the risk of ever having to experience what his parents
(51:14):
have gone through. Like this has had generational effects, and
this episode reminds us that inside every unsolved case, there
is a hard truth. Somebody saw something, somebody heard something,
or somebody knows something and they're choosing not to say
(51:37):
or do anything about it. Maybe Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
Mean I agree with him, I think as a you know,
you just got to hope that someone does know something
and that mm hmm they're willing and to come forward.
But unfortunately, now the longer it goes, people come forward
and they say things. Because here's the thing. All these
(52:04):
people that told us stories, they truly are trying to
come forward and say, listen, this is what we saw.
Was is what we think. But then at the end
of the day, there's no way to you know, verify them. Yeah,
and I do think these people are they're trying to
(52:28):
do the right thing by saying listen, I think we
saw this and this is what I saw. Yeah, and
I think this is what happened.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yeah. So fast forward to April seventeenth, nineteen years after
Amy's disappearance, we hear the voicemail that ended episode two
and I wrote it down. Hi, my name is Amika Douglas.
I'm the daughter of Alistair Douglas. I'm not really good
(52:57):
at this, but I would really really love to talk
to you. I know what you guys are going through,
and if it was me in this situation, I would
want information about, you know, why my daughter isn't here
right now, and then we get to sit down with
(53:19):
her and we meet Amica Douglas and she explains to
us that while she and her father were close in
a lot of ways, his top priority was always his
music and his life. On a cruise ship, he spent
many much of his time away performing and Amika was
(53:39):
still a toddler when her parents divorced. But as she
grew old, her her mother eventually told her about the
last I've told her about her father being connected to
this case, that when she was old enough to understand it,
that if you go looking for your dad online, you're
going to see this information that he's been linked to.
(54:01):
In fact, Amika wasn't even born when Amy disappeared. This
was pre that. But her mother remembers on one particular
cruise when Yellow had come home, he seemed to be
a different person. We don't get, we don't interview, we
(54:22):
don't we don't hear from her. We hear this is
I guess what you would call hearsay, Yeah, right?
Speaker 2 (54:27):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (54:27):
So this is being shared from the daughter. But according
to her, her mother said that he his personality had changed,
it was just something different. Amika's mother described one moment
where again we don't get any context to this. She
says something very eerie, that he disrespected her and frightened
(54:49):
her while she was pregnant. And I don't I don't
know what that means because we but it's to me
it came across a This is just my opinion from
what I watched, it seems like maybe there's been a
physical altercation of some sort. So she also then recalled
(55:09):
him returning with a large bag and she didn't recognize it.
So she opened it up and inside found photographs of
a lot of women. And I'm, first off, this is
her husband, so I cannot imagine finding this bag, but
this is also a woman from the Islands, a woman
(55:34):
of color. And the big thing that she notes is
every single female in this bag of photographs is that
they're all white women. So this quickly like this is
just red flags according to the mother, accorded from Amika's
(55:55):
point of view.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Amika, though, has been oddly very open with her father
about her personal thoughts on the Samy Bradley case. With him,
she has made it very clear that she even has
questions about it, but says that it always feels strange
and incomplete when she presses him up to talk about
(56:19):
it and it really just ends in him getting upset.
H Then Amika calls her dad directly while being recorded,
how did you feel about this?
Speaker 2 (56:34):
Uh? I don't know. I don't think it didn't bring anything.
Speaker 1 (56:40):
It didn't bring anything either to me. It felt a
little sensationalized. I felt bad.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
I guess it was presented as a bombshell. Yeah, it
really does. It really wasn't It really wasn't. No, he
basically repeats the same story. Need to answer with Amy.
He's been open to questions. He left around one, I
am never saw her again, and then just kind of
(57:07):
break abruptly hangs up on her. I mean, he says
he's been questioned several times about this, all that, and.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Look, if he had nothing to do with it, this
man's life's been ruined.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
And he says on the call, he had nothing to
do with her disappearance. I mean, obviously that's just what
he says. Yeah, but at the end.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
There's a lot of people in jail right now claiming
they had nothing to do with whatever they are and therefore.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
I'm not saying that. That's what I'm saying is if
he really did have nothing to do with it, Okay,
I mean, play devil's advocate. Here, I'm not citing one
way or the other but at all here, I'm just
saying he's now spent twenty something years under the microscope,
(57:50):
and everyone kind of assumes, and let's just say he's
telling the truth, and all he did was just dance
with her and flirt with her that night, and then
he had nothing to do with their disappearance. I would
imagine that getting questioned about it over and over, especially
from your own kid, that your kid not believing you,
(58:13):
that would be frustrating and it could cause some tension.
Or he did have something to do with it and
that doesn't want people talking about it. I mean, it
could go either way.
Speaker 1 (58:27):
Again, this is why this documentary is so frustrating, because
not even just doesn't anything. But I'm like, once again,
here we are thinking one step forward, three steps back
kind of maybe possible, right, doesn't It doesn't give anything.
It doesn't know way, we don't know. We don't know. Yeah,
(58:50):
because it's nothing directly implies yellow. But also there's nothing
to clear him. The FBI remain like reminds us once
again that if they had any evidence, he'd be under arrest.
He still is, according to the FBI person of interest,
a suspect, a suspect. There is still the troubling detail
(59:15):
that two witnesses claim to have saw Amy and Yellow
together heading to the disco once it was closed. Like,
the only thing we have is that Yellow did return
to his room at three thirty five am. That was
TAM's timestamp, But there's no timestamp going out. Did to
return to his room for ten minutes or was he
(59:36):
there for the whole night? We don't know, and there's
no evidence of any way.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
And I do think that I could be wrong. The
FBI agent says that his timestamp that does it does
kind of throw some wrenches into the story being told,
and that's why they're uncertain about all the time. Yeah,
because of the timestamp. So the girls that told the
story that they saw their time stamp going back to
(01:00:02):
the rooms and his it leaves a lot of unanswered
things for them to be able to verify and really
solidify the story. They're not saying she's not saying that
the story.
Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
She's just just they need one more piece of itage
just to let them know which direction to go. But
they kept their everyone is stuck.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
But if he was back in his room at three
thirty five, and she was back in her room at
three forty.
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Then he had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Yeah, But again then it's like, but again, we don't
know when they left. Again.
Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Yeah, did he go in his room and drop something
off and then leave and leave they make plans to
meet up later, We don't know, no idea, nobody knows.
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
So we're saying this a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
So complicating matters even more is that the FBI has
no jurisdiction he lives outside the United States. They cannot
walk into another country and question a citizen of that
country with out expressed permission, and they have no grounds
to ask for that permission on. So this episode definitely
(01:01:08):
zooms out to a larger issue that we talked about before.
When you were on a cruise ship, you don't know
the vetting processes for the crew member. Many are hired
outside of the United States, where labor laws and background
checks are very different. And I think someone brought a
good point on the sacrament. They said, when you're at sea,
(01:01:30):
twelve miles off the coast anywhere, you're essentially floating in
a country of its own where the captain, not any
law enforcement has the ultimate authority on the ship, and
I don't know what his experience is on.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
That.
Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
And because the cruise industry is a multi billion dollar business,
transparency about crimes totistics would cut into their bottom line.
So money almost always wins over accountability. And that is
(01:02:11):
the facts of why a lot of information is the
way it is. After all these years, the Bradley family
still sits with a painful pile of evidence that ultimately
leads them nowhere with.
Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Nothing but questions.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Until that one person who knows something or one person
that has a piece of evidence finally speaks, the case
will remain, for lack of a better term, dead in
the water.
Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
All right, this is where we usually say update, but
this pretty much says the update, because this documentary was
literally just done and giving you everything up to date
to this point. Yeah, so it is still technically sold.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
So we do see some updated aid age progressive photos
at the FBI themselves. I've done they put out. The
FBI is continuing to renew their call for public information.
I will say, we do get this one weird story.
I think this is actually really genius. Did you get
(01:03:24):
the guy Anthony Willis from Sydney Australia. His website.
Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean he puts together our website.
We're all information smart about the case there.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
In one central spot. And then he actually ends up
talking and meeting up with David, the guy who.
Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
On the beach with Yellow.
Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Yeah, so they end up communicating with each other. And
his background is in telecommunications, and I know a ton
about telecommunications, but there's time for that in this episode
for me to expertly inform you on what it is.
So we're just going to move forward. But they come
up with this idea that they should track IP addresses
(01:04:16):
to people's the people that are coming to their website.
So this allows us to see where interest in Amy's
case was coming from, and to their surprise, a large
number of visits were coming from the Barbados area, where
that woman had reported Senamy in a bathroom.
Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Well, and wasn't it like on our birthday or anniversary?
Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Even more chilling.
Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Some type of specific time. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Even more chilling was that sometimes the visitor would visit
the pages on holidays.
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Oh yeah, that's right, holidays.
Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Holidays, and it would twelve to seventeen times a day,
spending an aura of forty five minutes per visit on
those pages, So twelve times forty five, like that's a
lot of the day, a lot of time. Yeah. So
(01:05:14):
the last kind of question we get, could this be
Amy herself? Is she getting on this website to see
updates of her family? The possibility of Stockholm syndrome is raised.
The FBI acknowledges that if Amy were trafficked, she might
feel that she is unable to reach out. They tell
(01:05:36):
us that they interview many, many victims and they are
often threatened that their families or loved ones will be
harmed if they escape or if they leave. And if
she's potentially been forced into human trafficking, there's always a
risk as a female that she has produced children.
Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Yeah, and then we get that Judy lady that comes
back and she says that in the bathroom she did
hear something of the girl ask them, well, can we
stop and see the kids before we go?
Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
And they kind of say, like you if you behave yourself. Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
That so, because the question gets asked, well, if she
has access to a computer and that, then why isn't
she reaching out? And I say, well, is it possible
that she has kids and these kids are being threatened
if she does try.
Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
To Yeah, what do you do out?
Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Yeah, yeah, another possible possibility, but with nothing to close
the door on that.
Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
So this episode ends with the familiar harp like the
family like just being heartbroken, loved ones remember Amy, like
holding on to faith and hope. The case that was
just so full of loose ends. There are so many
leads and zero resolutions, and so if you happen to
(01:07:00):
know anything about the disappearance of Amy Bradley, please contact
your local FBI office, or if you're international, you can
go to any American embassy or consulate. A reward of
twenty five thousand dollars is available for leading to information
to Amy's recovery. You can submit tips via the FBI's website.
(01:07:23):
They have an electronic tip form you can fill out.
You can email Amy Bradley is missing at gmail dot com,
or you can call eight oh four seven eight nine
four two six nine and all tips can remain anonymous.
(01:07:44):
And that's it.
Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Don't be a horrible person and calling yeah, full stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Don't be garbage, don't be human garbage people. It's really
not that hard to just not be a bad person.
Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Yeah, it was really sad this last episode to see
you can definitely see that these parents have been through
so much, so much, and they're still They even interview friends,
like they interviewed that one girl who said that she
talked to her brother literally last month, and the brother
(01:08:21):
says something, well, when Amy comes home, this family is
still holding out hope, which I I can't imagine holding
onto that hope with no like no good things coming.
So it's admirable that they're still holding onto that much hope. Yeah,
(01:08:45):
and hopefully hopefully that hope does flourish into something good
coming forth for him.
Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Yeah, I really hope so too. So now, having watched
this documentary and talked about it, what is your do
you have any thoughts that, like, I think that this
is so I guess. I mean Aukham's Razor is kind
(01:09:16):
of the foundational rule that the most likely thing is
what happened or like you know, then that would be that.
Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
She fell overboard, Yeah it would.
Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Be or so yeah, somehow she ended up over into
the ocean. That is Aukham's Razors sort of thing. Do
you feel like you could pick one lane and think
this is the one I think that's worth to investigate the.
Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Most Ah, I know it's really tough. I mean, obviously
having zero emotional connection to it because I'm not a
family member. Yeah, sure, I mean maybe that's just the
(01:10:12):
easy way to just say, yeah, I think this is
what happened.
Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
I think, well, welcomes raisers, not like one hundred percent guarantee.
But it's like, you know, when you're an investigator or anything,
it's like, hey, let's this is what we're going to do.
Do you think, though you if you were in the
camp of you're now in charge of where this what
direction we're going to go? Would you go that theory?
(01:10:37):
Or would you pick one of the other ones?
Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
No? I think as an investigator, I'm actually really impressed
that they've picked a zero because you can't.
Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
No, I'm just asking you personally, like which one.
Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
I wouldn't go either way? I would leave everything open
you have to unfortunately, because there is zero.
Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
So what do you think happened to Amy? This is
just us talking kenniedly, like what after all of this
that we've seen? And I'm sure that there is maybe
a few things that the FBI hasn't released, But again,
I don't think there's a lot that they've kept back
because there's nothing there.
Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Yeah, but I lock.
Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
You in a room and you cannot leave until you
tell me what theory you think what happened to Amy Bradley.
Which one are you going to go with?
Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
But throwing a guess, Yeah, with zero evidence behind it,
I would say some type of accident happened and she
fell overboard, and that could lead to multiple things, an
accident literally on her own. And that is why kind
of I said, like they there is a lot of
(01:11:49):
people that are seeing someone knows something. Someone if it
was the middle of the night and something crazy did
just happen and she fell overboard, then yes, there is
no one out there that knows anything. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah,
it's also a possibility that someone did something terrible to
(01:12:11):
her and then threw her overboard too. That is very possible.
So yeah, and I understand that they think something might
have washed up That chief of police says something would have.
(01:12:32):
But also he literally says twenty minutes later that they're
parts of the island that are run by the mafia
that even the police don't really have a footholding.
Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
That's a fair point.
Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Yeah, what if she washed up there or it is
the ocean, what if the tides did do something weird
and it took her out all possibilities. Who knows, No, I.
Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
Mean, you're just there's no wrong answer. I don't think
you're wrong in thinking that. Yeah, to unlock that door,
to get you out of this room, you have to
pick a theory, and that's what you're But.
Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
I say that only because, like you said, outcomes raise
it like it's.
Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
It's the most likely, taking it as.
Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
A math problem, and yeah, the probability that's the highest one.
You're on a boat and you disappear in the ocean.
But yeah, I mean, obviously, I will one hundred percent
possible someone terrible did something, and they did they smuggled
(01:13:45):
her off, and she's that because I've said this now
a thousand times. Every possibility is open and it's his
gut wrenching that you can't close any door. Yeah, but yeah,
I mean, and that it would be terrible if that
(01:14:07):
is what happened to her, her falling off, because the
family will never know, will never know, there's no evidence.
Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Unless there's a way to eliminate every other thing with evidence,
then do.
Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
That because so many years of year like were she
could have been here, she could have been here, and
if she did fall overboard and was taken out or whatever,
or even if something did wash up, but no one
said anything. It's been so long, it's all gone. There's
no way of knowing. Just all right, what about you?
Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
I think I believe she got off the ship. So
this is my theory, my thoughts. Having listened to this,
Amy was getting a lot of attention and making friends
with people in the staff. I have no clue because
I don't know anything about left, right or center. If
(01:15:04):
when they talk there's a lot of preparation of like
getting the gangway up in bloody, bloody blah. But again,
I don't know if the staff is held to that
same restrictions, if they are expected, if they have a
smaller gang plank and they can get off before everyone whatever.
I so this is just me throwing out a possibility.
(01:15:28):
Is it possible that Amy went back up? She took
her cigarettes with her, and she went up to the
smoking area of the deck. It was the nineties. I'm
going to assume that a handful of the staff smoked
and they were either wrapping up their shift or getting
ready to start their shift. That she struggle a conversation
with somebody, and either she had been being watched or not,
(01:15:54):
and she trusted these people because she'd been friendly with them,
they'd given her a lot of attention. She enjoyed being
around them, and they offered her, Hey, I'm actually going
on the island early. There's a staff exit or back
or whatever. I don't know, And she maybe walked off
the boat willingly, thinking nothing other than the fact that
(01:16:20):
she was going to get on the island a little earlier,
I don't know, and that somehow she got herself into
a situation that ended up with her being stuck or
she was trafficked off the boat, whether she was coursed
or forced, I don't know. I can't get over those
(01:16:43):
FBI photos and how or the photos from that website
and how much they look like her like to me,
that is as close to evidence as you're going to get.
Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
And so.
Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Where she's at now, I couldn't tell you. My thought
is almost like, the more there's a spotlight on this,
she's a risk to have. It would be a lot
easier just to replace her with another working girl and
eliminate the spotlight. So yeah, I believe, in some way,
shape or form, I don't know, it was like there
(01:17:16):
was a whole staff corruption cruise people trying to take
in you know, Liam Nielsen style this.
Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
But.
Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Coursed or unknowingly walking into dangers that she wasn't aware
of at the time, got herself in and around a
group of people who took advantage of a situation that
she could be turned into a commodity. So I believe
she was trafficked.
Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
I will say this though, it just the thought again.
I'll say it again now seeing as you'd start thinking
of threats and you know, scary situations. A cruise that
goes from island to island to different country to different country,
(01:18:05):
if you were an organization looking to traffic people, then
yet you would send several people onto that ship to target, yes,
and then take them off, take them what it would.
Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
And just like you point out, those mafia people had
access to their own shorelines, yes, so they could hold
their whatever asset they're holding, they can hold for a
short amount of time and then it's jetted off somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
And that is a very scary, scary thought that you know.
I mean, like the movie Taken. I understand it's just
a movie, but that's that.
Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
Is a real thing, the spotlight on human traffic.
Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
They put target they do put spotters at certain places
with tourists in that and a cruise ship would be.
Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
A great place to do place.
Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
To put a spotter. And you know, you don't think
about that until you hear these horrible stories. M So,
I don't know. It was terrible story.
Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Yeah, it was. And people will take money to do
terrible things to people. There was actually even I was
reading that in Nashville, Tennessee. If there was a handful
of bartenders who got caught getting paid to spike drinks
of tourists and they were spiking their drinks so that
(01:19:28):
they could get robbed. They weren't, They weren't stealing the people,
but they were. If you weren't, they were the spotters,
and then they could spike a drink and then that
person is tagged or flagged, so then this group of
individuals can come in and strip them of their cash
and their credit cards and their ID and YadA, YadA YadA,
(01:19:50):
and move on to the next target. And the bartenders
who we would all trust, like we were trusting you
to make our drink for us, and then Nashville, you're
paying twenty five dollars for it, and to find out
that it's the bartender that's roofing people is messed up.
Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
It's terrible.
Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Yeah, all right, well should we lighten it up a
little bit with a question do all right? First off,
thank you once again for everyone who has tuned in
to us real quick. Please find us on social media.
It's a super easy way to support us. We are
on TikTok, We're on Instagram, Facebook, you can look up
(01:20:32):
on self Coupled podcast discussion group. We got all kinds
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then if you please, please please follow, rate review it
goes so far. We also have two ways you can
support the show as we're trying to grow. There's links
below to buy me a coffee, and then another link
that supports the show through our podcast. So yeah, share
(01:20:58):
us with a friend. I mean literally, I heard a
story on a podcast the other day that like one
lady recommended this podcast to her daughter, and then her
daughter shared it like with all of her like friends
on some travel thing, and then they ended up, like
I don't it ended up like blowing up in this
little teeny tiny area of the world that just from
(01:21:19):
one person sharing it, so it means a lot. All right, Ben,
You're still in that locked room, and the only way
you can get out is you have to pick for
the rest of your life whether you will only have
a dog or a cat. What do you pick? It
(01:21:43):
is tough.
Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
I like this.
Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Tell us you're in a monologue.
Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
What Well, here's the thing. I grew up with dogs,
and I like I love ducks. And I will say this,
it's only been the last few years of really taken
the cats. I like them a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
I know you, guys, you won't talk about marriage goals.
Anyone who's not who Anyone who is a cat person
who falls in love with someone with the very beginning
of their relationship is like absolutely not a cat person.
When your cat dies, we are not replacing it. Like no, no, no,
I am not a cat person. To then understand to
(01:22:38):
get them not to just like accept cats or tolerate them,
but to actually have decided that they love cats. You guys,
if that is the biggest thing that I've done to
the earth for the Earth, You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
I am. I'm a big fan. They're adorable, they're great,
But you got them to get them to like you
they're very sentimental, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
And Ben said to me the other day, because we
we are both bet and I really want a main coon.
You want a humungo, fat, lazy cat. And Ben said
to me just yesterday, I think when we get that
main coon, I will make him fall in love with me.
I'm convinced that Ben is going to tell me I
can go on some like amazing week long girls trip
(01:23:27):
and he's gonna be like, oh, I got you, babe,
I love you. Have a great time. And in that time,
he is going to go get a kitten and he's
going to make it bond with him without the interference
of me around.
Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Yeah. Yeah, but if I had to pick one, I
do think I would probably end up picking a dog.
And now, because of the dogs are a kiss, but
because you don't, you don't actually have to work as
hard for a dog. You just don't. They're just are
more willing to love and snuggle and cuddle, you know,
(01:24:05):
just be right there with you. And now he'sing I
do love dogs. I've always loved dogs. They're they're great.
So yeah, I mean it would be hard, honestly, wouldn't matter.
Give me either one. I'd be fine. If I had
to pick one, you.
Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
Have to pick it one to get yourself out of
this room.
Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Probably pick a dog. Oh okay, interesting, I already know
your answer. Sare one. Pick a cat.
Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
Oh yeah, and need d the week cat, I'll give
me twenty cats. I don't care.
Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
But that's too much.
Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
That's not too much. No cat, for sure, they are
they have an attitude. They don't need me around, but
they want me around sometimes, And they're snugly and affectionate
and hilarious. They just have these personalities. But they also
are the biggest snots in the world, and they're so
(01:25:03):
much easier to take care of.
Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
Yeah, they are. They are.
Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
Yeah, maybe you have to work a little bit harder,
but then they also expect far less from you.
Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
So I'm all about less work, you know. Yeah, I mean,
I guess dogs are in the cleaning up and all that.
Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
But yeah, that's because to me, if you've got a cat,
you can still go on vacation. If you've got an
automatic beatter. Now they even have robot litter boxes, Like great,
and your cat's gonna barely notice that you're gone, Yeah,
until they till you get home, and then they will
let you know that they are annoyed that you left,
(01:25:44):
even though they didn't really notice you were gone. Yeah. No,
I am a cat person. I love all of the
cats and that's yeah. So all right, guys, that is
our episode. Thanks for hanging out with us once again.
Next to Meet, we will be back to our regular
schedule where Ben and I recap one of your original
(01:26:07):
gateways into true crime. Stress byem