Bermuda Triangle, Don't Mess With Granny & Lost Loves.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody, I'm Sierra and Be and welcome back to
another episode of The Unsolved Couple. For every week, Ben
and I recap one of your original gateway drugs in
the true.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Crime Unsolved Mysteries.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Okay, we're live, all right, that's good.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Every time we're about to start due. You know I
did that before we started last episode.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Anyone who can guess what I just did? You get
a cold star?

Speaker 2 (00:42):
How's the weather?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Trying to get started on the web?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
I hate weather talk.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
We live in Arizona and it's miserable.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Here and I just hate weather talk. I think it
is the most boring conversation and I would just rather
not talk to someone than talk about the weather. I
think it should be. I think it should be. You
got me going, what is wrong with you? I?

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Ben is going to go on a tangent. Not about
the weather, but about talking about the weather.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Not even that, just talking in general, talking to people
in general.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
I like talking to people.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
I do too, but by a conversation with someone. If
I'm going to have a conversation with a new person
or whatever, I wanted to actually be a meaningful conversation.
I want to be able to ask someone how they're
doing and have a true answer. If you're not doing good,
if I ask you, that means I actually want to know.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, fair, I'm the same way if you are not
doing good, I would like to know.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I think it should be socially acceptable that when if
you don't want to have a conversation, you should be
able to just turn around and walk away, even if
they're in the middle of a sentence. If you are
done with that conversation, you're bored with it.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
There are people probably listening to this right now that
relate one hundred percent. I could not ever imagine being
in that situation.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, if someone did that to me, maybe I would
be caught off guard, But then I would look in
turn and be like, what was that.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
If it was socially acceptable, then you wouldn't be caught
off guard. You'd be like, oh, I guess the price.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I think it should be social media exited.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
The chat and they're done, so I think it should be.
And it maybe had nothing to do with me, or
maybe it had everything to do with me, but they
didn't want to be mean. Yeah, so they just left.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
And I'm okay, be mean to me. I don't doesn't
bother me. Go ahead, let's.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Don't be mean to men't me up at night. Let's
just I'm always like stressed that everyone is mad at
me and that I've always missed. I remember one time
when we were first couple of years of marriage. It
might have been like first year. I got a call
or something and I work, where when I was home,
I was home. And this is like before cell phones

(03:04):
and emails were like smartphones in your pocket. So back
in the old days, kids, when you left work, you
were done. Nobody could contact you because if they called
your house phone, there was a chance that you just
didn't pick up, and they couldn't say whether you were
screening your calls or not. So people left you alone.

(03:26):
But I got a call or an email or something
that my boss wanted to meet with me first thing
in the morning.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
That is that is just terrible for Cierra.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
And I started. And here's the thing, guys, I've never
been in trouble or done anything ever intentionally wrong or
against the rules. When it comes to any protocol in
my life, I was.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
The she does like to break the rules.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
I don't like to break the rules. I'm very as
far as when it comes to stuff like this is
what's expected of me. Great, and if I don't want to,
if that level of expectation is just not into me,
I won't work there or be a part of that.
So that's kind of my middle ground with that. And
I remember Ben just saying to me with the utmost audacity,

(04:17):
just forget about it.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
You'll learn like what, who cares?

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Who cares? You know you didn't do it like this
can't like it is time to move on.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
You know you didn't do anything. You'll figure out what
they wanted that I did not, It would get there.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
It turns out later in life that I was diagnosed
with anxiety and ADHD. So you telling me that you
want to talk to me about something later, please don't
ever tell me that. Tell me what you need to know,
or at least give me an idea of what it's about,
because then I'm fine. And the meeting ended up being
I think I got a I was offered, like to

(04:54):
be moved up into management or something. So it ended
up being totally fine.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
In fact, I said that it was going to I.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Understand that you said that, and I knew that it
likely was something good. But I'm also the person that
plays back every conversation. I read every movement in a room.
I assume that people are always that I've hurt someone's
feelings or they're mad at me. That's how I live
my life, concerned about everybody else's feelings and emotions at
all times. And it can be exhausting. Yeah, and then

(05:23):
there's my husband.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
I've literally had a boss call me and leave a
voicemail saying, hey, can you call us back? And my
thought process is, I'm not on duty. Yeah, and so
I have literally left it till I show up to
work the next day. Yeah, I'm like, what do you need?
Because now I'm getting paid and you can take exactly.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
And there's the differ, like one of the hundreds of
differences between and I don't know what that is, like
I would.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Be able to doesn't bother It doesn't bother me.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, all right, So today we are recapping season three,
episode two of Unsolved Mysteries. We have four stories, and
I think this is going to be kind of my
stories are not. I've got two lost loves, you guys,
and they're oddly similar kind of. Yeah, I don't know,

(06:18):
I don't know. I've got to figure out these were
likely probably pulled it from two different segments and put
together because I see why they match. But to me,
that makes TV boring when these stories are so much
the same.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
I think it's just boring for us because we've covered
so many in such a short time.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
I actually found a reader board today when I was
looking for updates on one of these stories, and the
entire reader board was who is over the Lost Love
episode segments on Unsolved Mysteries? And there's all of these
people that are, like, they're awkward, they're uncomfortable. I feel
like I'm looking at something I shouldn't be when we're

(06:56):
watching the follow ups and stuff like that, Like X
Y or Z. People were over it to the point
where somebody started a reader board about it, and there's
a lot more people than I expected on there. But
our job is to recap episode by episode, so that's
what work.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's what we're here to do. Yeah, even if you
all hate it, that's what we're gonna do.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
No one hates it. Everyone loves us. Speaking of loving us,
oh dear, you can now support the show in two
different ways.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Ben, all right, I'm here to support it.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Okay, Ben is going to support it. There is two
links below in the show notes. There's a support this
show through our company that we put our podcast out
through that then puts it out to the rest of
the world. You can sign up for that, and it's
got a reader board and stuff like that. When you
do that, you can put in your name your favorite

(07:52):
nineties or two thousands of memory, or your favorite episode
of Unsolved Mysteries and we will read it live here
on the podcast and it will forever be in the
ether of podcasting world. The other thing you can do
is support us through buy me a coffee. It is
created solely for small creators, independent artist and different things

(08:16):
like that. It's not a monthly subscription. You can literally,
I checked, you can do as little as a dollar,
and so if you would like to do that, throw
a couple bucks here and there too. We're not going
to go buy coffee with it. We're actually going to
use it to promote the show and upgrade equipment. But
same thing. Leave us your name, the information, and we're
going to read that here on the podcast for everybody.

(08:40):
Any questions ben about how that works? Negative negative? Okay,
all right, So our first lost love story is from
a girl named Jackie. Dragon.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Such a sweet last's name.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
A sweet last name, and bless this woman's heart. Her
last name was Dragon, and she was a redheaded, red,
curly haired.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Girl who spelled dragon. Does she pronounce it that way?

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Or was it like dragoon?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
I thought I thought I heard dragon. I'd lean into that.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Oh. So.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
She was born in nineteen sixty four and grew up
in a middle class home near San Francisco. She knew
her entire childhood that she had been adopted, but she
had no idea who her birth parents were. Curiously, she
had an unusual fascination with films and movies about women

(09:37):
in prison no comment. She recalls having a sense of
security when watching.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Them, like, I'm worried. I'm worried that you felt a
sense of security watching people in prison.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
We're gonna find out later. Maybe why that was the case,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I'm still worried.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
I in nineteen eighty six. Okay, no, so sorry, I
skipped ahead of my notes. Like most children, Jackie could
get in to be a little mischievous from time to time,
especially when left home alone, as we all could, and
at the age of twelve, she went into her parents'
bedroom and looked through her father's closet. As she was

(10:22):
doing so, a box of important documents opened up, and
she discovered all of her adoption paperwork. Over the next
few years, she would search on and off for her
birth family. The biggest discovery that she learned was in
nineteen eighty six that she had actually not been born
in a hospital. Instead, she had been born inside the

(10:46):
walls of a prison.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
WHOA, that is a big I guess.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
I didn't even think about the fact that incarcerated women
can be pregnant when they come in and have to
give birth at times. Yep, that is a whole like
extra level of craziness because what do you do as

(11:19):
the state.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
I don't know. I think technically, do.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
You automatically lose custody of that child?

Speaker 2 (11:27):
I think so, but don't quote me up.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, and maybe it's different from state to state, or
even from prison to prison, because we're going to find
out that this prison like had a nursery, and I
think I heard and other documentary that that is maybe
something offered at a few places. I don't know. I
didn't have time to do research on incarcerated women giving

(11:50):
birth in prison, but.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
That it does then raise questions should children be raised
in a prison?

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, I mean you could have that conversation.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
To not having that conversation. I'm just saying, and.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I think a lot of expense. How long is the
moment incarcerated for. Is this a prison sentence that she's
in there for four months after the baby's born?

Speaker 2 (12:12):
I woulde I would imagine your sentence is determined. I'm
throwing that guesses. Yeah, you know, let's say you're doing
a life you're the problem.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
You're doing a life sent probably.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
The state takes it and that. But if you are
doing a year, then maybe the foster care takes it.
And I know, even right now, if a parent loses
custody of a child, a lot of times the first
thing they try to do is put it with an
immediate family member. Maybe I don't know, I'm throwing guesses
out here. I never actually does. To me.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
I just was like a light bulb moment. It was like, WHOA,
that's I mean, that's how biology works. That can't be avoided.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Maggie No, Marge Writer had been incarcerated at the time
of her birth. She had been born at the Dwight Reformatory.
Reformatory for women in Chicago. March had been serving a
one year sentence for her part in an armed robbery.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
So her mother's name is Marge.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah. Ten months later, so yeah. Ten months later, she
made up one of the most difficult decisions in her
life to put up Jackie for adoption. So she raised
Jackie for ten months while behind bars.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
She decided that Jackie was entitled to a better life,
a stable home with two loving parents, and at this
stage in her life she just would not be able
to provide her any of those, and indeed, Jackie's adoptive
parents provided a stable home for her. However, she was
curious about her birth mother, March. She wondered if she

(13:56):
was ever able to clean up her act or if
ended up getting into more trouble. More than nine years
of searching, Jackie finally learned Marge's whereabouts. She feared, as
I think most people would, about possible rejection, but decided
to overcome her fears and contact her anyways, July twenty sixth,
nineteen ninety, she spoke with her for the first time. Fortunately,

(14:20):
Marge was overjoyed to hear from Jackie. However, one of
the first things she said, is I never thought any
of you girls would call me. She then told her
she had actually given up two other daughters for adoption
as well. Jackie March spent the next two hours on
the phone. Marge told her about her own troubled childhood,

(14:42):
dropping out of high school, falling in love with the
wrong crowd, and ending up pregnant at seventeen years old. Yeah,
that is rough. She admits that she made mistakes very
early on in her life. However, in the latter part
of her life, she managed to write above her past,
she was happily married and living in Illinois. Inspired by

(15:05):
Jackie's open hearted love and understanding, she would like to
find her other two daughters that she gave up for
adoption more than twenty five years ago. Marge's first daughter,
Lauren May, was eighteen months old when once again March
was taken to prison.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I think it was it might have been the same one, yeah,
because I thought she said she was pregnant with.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yes, she was eight months pregnant with her. Yeah, with
Jackie yet right, so she left Marge No eighteen months.
When Marge went to prison, she was left. So the
first daughter, Laura May, was left in the care of
the grandmother, Marge's mother. At the time, Marge was already

(15:51):
eight months pregnant with Jackie, and claims that once she
was in prison, her grandmother attempted to get legal custody
of Laura May. Ever, shortly after the sentence began, a
lawyer came into visiting her, convincing documents which would allow
her to keep Laura May. However, there is belief that
it was actually giving legal adoption over to the grandmother

(16:14):
and taking away all of her parental rights. Fortunately, marche
was not in a position to like read through all
these legal documents and understand what she was signing, so
whether intended or not, she ended up signing custody full
over to her grandmother, to the grandmother, and the courts

(16:34):
at that point stepped in because Marge's grandmother was too
old to raise a child. So actually this was at
Marge's mother, This was her grandmother. Yeah. I'm just like
reread like it was. There's a lot of information this
with these babies being moved around and stuff, so it
sounds like her grandmother, I don't know where the mother

(16:54):
was was raising her grandchildren, yeah, yeah, or her grant grandchildren. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
That's sort of sound. Yeah, they weren't super clear.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
That makes more sense why the state got involved, because
she must have been significantly older to be raising your
great grandchildren. Well, yeah, so. Laura May was ultimately taken
by a Cook County welfare department and became a ward
of the state. Marge never saw her again. After Jackie

(17:27):
was born, she cared for her in the prison's nursery. However,
ten months later she gave in to outside pressure to
put her up for adoption. A few weeks later, she
completed her sentence and was released. She was never in
trouble with the law again. However, she did give birth
to a third daughter, Dawn, whom she also gave up
for adoption. Marge later gave birth to a fourth daughter, Tracy.

(17:52):
At that point, she finally felt comfortable raising a child
and keeping it for herself. She often thought of what
would happen for other our daughters came looking for. She
wondered how she would explain giving them up for adoption. However,
she realizes that she was trying to give them better
chances and setting them up for a life with loving families.

(18:14):
September twentieth, nineteen ninety merged through to California to meet
up with Jackie for the first time in more than
twenty five years. Jackie had dozens of questions about her
family history. For her, the reunion meant like the end
of the search for one her mother and the beginning
of the search now for her sister. She hopes that

(18:34):
our sisters know that they were adopted and wonders where
they've come from. Marge would like to get to know
them and let them know that she loves them, and
she'd finally like to get this all completed again. And
that's where it leaves us. So we've got a mother
and daughter connected, and there are two other sisters.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Two other daughters, sisters out there.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Out there all right. Update solved the night of the broadcast,
Laura May and Don Marie We're both located. Thanks to
viewers' tips. Laura May was now married living in Mississippi,
and Dawn, whose adopted dame was Susan, owns her own
business in Santa Barbara, California. Three months after the broadcast,
Lauren and Susan traveled to Jackie's home in Glendale, California,

(19:17):
where they were all reunited.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
And there you go, family back together.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Bada being Bata Boom.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Being Blada boom. Another lost love, another thing that Facebook
could have done in about five minutes. But here we go.
All right, are we ready to move on to the
next Go for it? My last story. All right, this
lady she's a hero. All right, this lady's awesome. We're

(19:47):
going to hear about c. W. Roddy. All right, New
Year's Eve nineteen eighty nine, or I guess New Year's
Day of nineteen ninety, East Palo Alto, California. We get told,
gunshots ring out and sixty year old CW. Roddy is shot.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
That's terrible in the stomach, in the stomach.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yes, she was living at the time with her twenty
three year old son, Darnell. And we get then told
that East Palo Alto, California, at the time is not
doing well.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
It's not a great neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
No. CW had been living in that neighborhood for years,
like twenty something years. She was retired service technician or
service provider for the phone company. She's retired, she's living there,
she's been living there, and all of a sudden she's
watching her neighborhood go down. The drain. All of a sudden,

(20:54):
there's just drug deals going on. They make it out
to be like it's a drive through. People are just
lined up on the streets.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's the McDonald's.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
It's a McDonald's drug marijuana. Yeah, yeah, for drugs and
cw is she's fed up with it all right.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Someone asked you, has anyone ever offered you drugs in
your life?

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Me?

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, no, no, I don't think so. Would you have
any clue how to go get drugs back? Like this
is when in the eighties or nineties.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
I don't I don't think no.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
I just have watched movies or TV shows where people
like go to CD alleys and like flash their headlights
and then someone pops up at their window and there's
this exchange, and I'm like, I don't know if that's
really how things went down, But yeah, unlike the DARE program, Well,
they convinced us that at any moment, a grown man
in a trench coat not name Robert Stax was going
to come up and like try to hook us on drugs,

(21:52):
and that the first time it might even be free drugs,
because that's how.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Drugs gets roping, get you hooked.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
I don't It never happened to me.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
If I was looking for drugs, I would first go
around and look for shoes on the telephone.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Knocking on doors. Excuse me, I noticed the shoes, She said,
the code word.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Where is the drugs?

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Where are the drugs?

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Who's dealing it?

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah? Okay, I just think, yeah, the whole perception, this
was like just a drive up to the garage and yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Uh, this is happening across the street from c W
to the point where people are parking on her like
yard to go get drugs.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
That was my line that would be drawn. You want
to be a drug dealer? Fine.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
She goes out and starts confronting these kids, teenagers, young
young people, and it's like, hey, listen, I don't care
what you guys are doing in your own home. But
she pretty much says, you started bringing it to my Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Now we have a problem.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
We got a problem.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
She's telling them get off my yard, knock it off,
and they are threaten her.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Jerk's about it.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, they're just being rude to the point they say.
In February nineteen eighty eight, she's walking down the street
and some guy comes up and threatens her to the
point they threaten to blow her house up, and she
turns to him and says, what are you going to
make sure I'm in the house when you do it?
Like this lady has no fear. Spump yeah, and he

(23:22):
yells something else at her. And there is a police
officer parked across the street. She walks up to him says, hey,
did you hear what he just said to me? And
he goes, no, I didn't. She tells him what he said.
He makes the arrest on this kid, but she says,
within minutes hours, yeah he's gone. Yeah, he's out of jail.

(23:42):
Nothing happens. So then in December, sorry, October nineteen eighty nine,
she does the same thing. She goes across the street,
confronts these people. They punch her in the face.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
People, everyone just needs a sixty year old woman and
that's this is going to sound the people that I
have known in my life that might be into nefarious things,
and there's been a handful of them. Usually there is
this weird level of respect when it comes to like

(24:15):
the elderly people in the community, Like that's the memha
across the street. She's off limits. Nobody mess with her.
You respect her property, respect her space, and to me,
this just seems like such completely unnecessary. These kids were
obviously not thinking rational, and maybe that's giving them way

(24:38):
too much credit, but I'm just surprised that no one
sent in was like, uh, that that's we don't cross
that line.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
She says, and one of them picks up a board
and threatening. She turns around and just walks away, goes
into her house cause the police. He gets arrested, but
is without within hours. Yeah, so nothing happens. Then December
nineteen eighty nine, she gets into another altercation. She doesn't

(25:06):
say exactly what happens, but her neighbor, Chris Thomas, sees
what's happening. He goes out to help his neighbor and
they cut him in the face.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Oh my goodness. Yeah, so these people are a menace.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, so police come, he is treated, they get arrested. Yeah, again,
we don't really know much what happens, but he was
just coming to help c w out.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Well, yeah, you see a sixty year old woman getting
harassed and bullied by the teenagers next door, you're gonna
step in.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
So that was in December, so they said it was
pretty quiet. After that, nothing else happened until New Year's Eve.
She tells us the story that she passed midnight, they
interviewed the chief of police and he says, yeah, New
Year's Eve, people like to celebrate New Year's by shooting
their guns in the air. Oh, this is a terrible idea.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Do not do that.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Even though Joe Biden told you to do it, don't
do it. I'm just saying, don't do it. That's a
bad idea for anyone.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
New It is real. Joe Biden, former President of the
United States of America, suggested to shoot a shotgun fire
to blast into the air if you were worried about
a home intruder. Look it up on YouTube. It's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
It's great, great YouTube via. But anyways, but please do
not do that. So he tells us this is pretty common.
She hears it and thinks kids are just being celeb
there celebrating, and then all of a sudden their house
just starts getting lit up by bullets. Their house.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
You remember the fear of drive by shootings. I remember
hearing about remember hearing in the nineties and like it
be something that was It was making the news, and
I remember it being a pivotal part of my childhood,
like being concerned about drive by shootings and how terrifying
that would be.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah. Absolutely, but yeah, so this happens to her. They
said that her house and car were shot thirty five times.
Thirty five times. Her son he hits the floor, he's
it's blast in their house, and she gets shot in
the stomach. He calls instantly, but she lives to tell

(27:31):
the tale, thank goodness. So so they're looking for other shoots.
The FBI get involved and they come out. They do.
They've found casings for multiple different guns and.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I'm sure these were all registered weapons too.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
And even the neighbor who helped her, Chris Thomas, he
came forth. He saw the he didn't get a look
at him, but he saw it happening. He said he
saw multiple people will stand outside of her house shooting
her house up and that so someone.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Burned that house and where's the arsonist from last episode?
That's the house he needed to burn down.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
So anyways, this actually did help the neighborhood. A bunch
of moms came together and started this program. They ended
up kicking them out of the park in the neighborhood.
The moms were there.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Dude, do not mess with a group of moms.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
So it actually started, it started started something.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah, so that was the line that was crossed for
the community to be like, this can't keep happening.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Robert Stacks tells us that this started helping the neighborhood.
But they're still looking for the shooters of this lady.
So that's where it leaves. So are you ready for
your update update? Never found? Yeah, I'm not surprised, so
I did. I did a lot of research and effect
of this lady was very well known. She lived in

(29:00):
that neighborhood. She passed away November eleventh, twenty twelve, eighty
three years old. Never left her neighborhood. Turns out it
wasn't too long after her shooting that Moltov cocktails were
thrown into her backyard.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Then there was rumor that the gang in the neighborhood
had put out a ten thousand dollars hit on her head.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Those kids need to have a time out.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
But because of all of that, that caused such huge
backlash in the neighborhood that these moms came together. The
neighborhood came together, and they started pushing these people out.
It Also, with this segment on that caused national attention,
the city filed for a million dollars like a five

(29:49):
million dollar grant was given it to beef up law enforcement,
start a task force. FBI started pushing these guys out
to the point where she did an interview year later
in two thousand and pretty much said they don't they
haven't really seen you know, maybe this is still happening,
but they've run underground. She pretty much single handedly cleaned up,

(30:12):
helped clean up her neighbor I don't know what East
Palo Alto, California is like now. It sounded like, yeah no,
but it sounded like just her actions alone helped clean
up her her neighborhood at least for you know, a
little while. Hopefully it's doing way better to this day.

(30:36):
But I mean, this lady, she would not be scared.
Holy smokes, she's she's pretty awesome. She deserves a huge
shout out for standing up to people. Literally took a
bullet to say.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Uh, that's not in my name.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, but unfortunately the people that shadow were never cut. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
When it comes to a group shooting and things like that,
I can't imagine that it's going to be easy to find.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
So East Paletto's crime status has been significantly decreasing in
at least homicides. Within twenty twenty three, they reported zero
murders in that county. Wow, so overall crime rates still
means a little bit higher than the national average.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, but if you look, yeah, crime in the nineties
went down.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Well, prime the crime rates are lower there than in
the state's average.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
So yeah, byther way, this lady is a hero. Yeah,
and she's she's pretty awesome.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
At one point it was known as the murder capital
of the United States, and by twenty twenty three there
was zero reported homicides. I mean that is huge. So
there you go. And it says ongoing efforts have continued
through usually community improvement and stuff. So it still seems

(32:10):
like it's a lot on the citizens that they've worked
really hard to improve.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
It sounds like this lady clearly started that movement, and
sounds like that movement has continued on because we know,
like police can do as much as they can, but
something like that, it clearly the citizens are the ones
that stepped up.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
And yeah, because here's the thing. If they're trying to
sell drugs and I can't sell them there anymore or
it's becoming more and more difficult to do, so they
will find somewhere else to do it.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
I mean, I will say it is a little frustrating
to hear that it was so well known, it was
so rampant right in the middle of the day and
on the street. The police should have been out there,
but I don't know the situation all that, so I'm
not but I'm just saying, Okay, well, awesome for I mean, sad,
terrible that she got shot, but yeah, said that they

(33:00):
were never caught, but ladies, pretty awesome.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
So okay, guys, right now, we have a free sticker
giveaway for any five star rating and review. Right now,
I think we're close to fifty ish reviews on Apple podcast.
If it literally is one of the best ways that

(33:24):
you can support the show. It costs you zero and actually,
on top of that, you're gonna kind of come out
ahead because I'm going to mail you this priceless sticker
who knows what it's going to be worth someday A
hold lot. Yeah, so that's like the best investment costs
you zero dollars and it could be worth millions.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Someday that could be your retirement.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
It could be. No one is saying that it's not.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Anything's possible.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Because on top of a sticker, Ben and I me
I write a little thank you card and I corner
Ben and he signs them as well. But if you
want specifically one handwritten from Ben, put that in your
review and I'll make sure it happens. I can't promise
how it will look or what it will say, but

(34:10):
it can be from him. Yeah. So Apple five star
rating and review Spotify, you can, I think, leave a
five star rating. You can comment on episodes. We're on
YouTube playlist and you can comment and review on those.
All of those things help a ton moving our podcast forward.

(34:32):
So please, if you haven't already, go pause this. It
takes literally two minutes to leave a review wherever you
stream your podcasts. On top of that, make sure you're
following Ben and I on social media. We have a
Facebook discussion group. It's titled Unsolved Couple Facebook Discussion Group,

(34:54):
and we're on TikTok on Instagram as Unsolved Coupled Pod,
and you can email us at Unsolved Coupled Pod at
gmail dot com. All right, here we go lost love again.
You ready for it. This is the story of the
Heck Family. Hck. Heck family cool, last name Dragon and Heck.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
That's oh my Heck. That is crazy.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
The six Heck children of Iowa were separated by adoption
as children, but through the force of will, five of
them managed to reunite in adulthood. In the summer of
nineteen forty four, the Heck family was living in Council Bluffs, Iowa.
Ten year old Delbert Junior was the quote man of
the house. His father worked as a road construction worker.

(35:46):
As a result, was often away from home and literally
did nothing to support the family. He sounds like a loser.
Delbert recalls at times life was very, very hard. They
didn't have money for food or groceries. However, the children

(36:07):
didn't see this as what we would call hard times
because this was their reality and this was their norm,
and so they thought they were doing just fine and
that this is how everybody lived. He said. They had
a well, so they always had running water, and like
that was kind of their marker that they were doing

(36:27):
good and that for the most part, him and his
siblings got along really well. So Delbert Junior and his
mother often went to dramatic, dramatic measures to provide the
family with food. On several occasions, he would sweep kernels
of grain out of box cars into a burlap bag

(36:47):
and take it down to the feed store to sell it. Yeah,
it was at times the only way the family could
afford to eat in August.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
What we're going to say that just is amazing to me,
like what people have had to endure to survive, and
it makes you think twice about.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, how many times have we opened up, all of
us listening to this, a refrigerator full of food and
complained because there's quote nothing to eat?

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, I know. I mean I'm always looking for a
snack late at night and I get irritated because I
don't have whatever snack I want.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
That when you've decided at that moment, there might.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Be lots of snacks.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, but I love, I know, we all know.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
I just I hear these stories and I just think, man,
like Gilly, I got anything I think is hard. Yeah,
there's just a lot of people in the world, even
today that it would do a lot.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
What were we watching the other day where the Russian
lady was like we were watching the cruise ship documentary.
Do you remember that there was a lady. Yeah, that
was we're not going to get into that, but there
was a lady there from like at one point, Communist Russia,
and she works on the cruise ships. And she's like,

(38:11):
for the most part, these cruise ships are all full
of Americans, and they're stuck on this cruise ship. They're
literally lost it. They're not lost to see, they're stuck
dead in the water is what it's called engine blue.
And she's like, within you know, obviously ours, things start
to kind of spiral. But she makes an observation that literally,

(38:33):
for the first time, these people weren't sure what their
next meal was going to be, or.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Like just the just the small luxuries of the.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Small luxuries of the life. And she thought, she just
observed that it was interesting because for her that was
normal for a lot of her childhood. So to get
to see these people for the first time experiencing it
and not know how to handle it. They were hoarding
stuff and instead she do not rub your feet up
against me, you weirdo, Benjamin, Sorry about that, guys, Ben's

(39:09):
Robin's dogs on me. I've got barefeet. No, I always
wear socks and it's too hot for my socks on.
So Ben, all right, let's all take a moment and
take a deep breath. All right. Anyways, I thought it
was interesting to have someone make that observation that that
was a normal part of our life, and so hoarding
in all of this stuff, and how quickly people turned

(39:31):
on each other probably wouldn't happen with people that have
experienced that before. Instead, the mindset is much like, let's
take care of each other, let's work together. So yeah,
it makes you realize how fortunate a lot of us
are to not have had to experience that. But by
August nineteen forty four, the family hits on the radar

(39:54):
of the local welfare and children like services. You know,
they make a visit to the house, and this woman
that comes to the house is literally going through there's
no food in the cupboards, there is no clothing in

(40:14):
any of the furniture, dresser drawers, nothing, They literally were
wearing rags. The only thing that was was a mattress
in the living room that all six children slept on.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, yeah, wild.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
So the worker explains to the mother that it appears
that she's unable to care for all these children. Properly,
and that it's likely that if things didn't change, that
they were going to have to take the children. So
I don't know what happened. But ninety days later, so
I don't know if she's given an opportunity, what have

(40:52):
you not. Ninety days later, the state of Iowa comes
in and takes the children away. Florence. One of the
children recalls at the social worker lied to them and
said they were going to go see a movie, and
they had never seen a movie before in the theater.
So terrible. I agree, let's not tell that. And if
you were going to say that, then how hard would

(41:12):
it have you actually.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Just take her to a movie? Yeah, but still you
should at least let the kids know you're taking them
from their parents.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
They happily got into this is like the free candy
or helped me find my lost puppy, Like they literally
the kids put themselves happily into this person's car, waved
to their mother, not knowing that they're not going to
see her again. Yeah, that's terrible. Florence though, however, notices

(41:42):
as their one way that their mother is crying on
the porch and that the further and further away they
drove that the movie was never going to be seen. No,
the six children, and this is a quote from Robert Stecks.
The sick children were scattered across the countryside like wind

(42:03):
blown seeds. I wrote that down just for you.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
YEA.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Three of them were immediately adopted, while three languished in
orphanages the words he uses sometimes. Florence was a seven
year old. She was sent to the Christians Children's Home.
She recalls crime profusely. From the moment she got there,
she cried for her mother and her siblings because she

(42:32):
missed them. They were basically her entire life, obviously, the
little that they had, the only thing they had was
their families, each other, and a horrible human being who okay,
this is just my personal thing. This is the children's
Christian home. So these are all people claiming to be Christians,
which is like number one rules, love thy neighbor as thyself. However,

(42:56):
this woman is known as the dorm mother who applies
for this job. If you were going to treat children
like garbage, you are a deplorable human being. Yeah, yeah,
you don't have to be here, my guy, go find
another job. However, this woman gets so annoyed that this

(43:18):
girl's crying at night, that she drags her out of
the dorm room, shoves her into a closet and tells
her she can stay there until she's done crying.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
She says she slept there for.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Not just one No, she slept in there, she said,
for a long time while she was in the orphanage,
And so makes you was she really better off? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Really, I mean obviously it's not like the state intended
to take her and then to shove her in there.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
But yeah, but also higher better people. I yeah, I
mean that's a whole other soapbox. I can get on
for the other day, but I think don't work with
children if crying children annoy you. These children have all
been traumatized.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
These kids that they need extra they're gonna be.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
A lot of that work from their homes.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
There a lot of kind.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, you have the name dorm mother, and we should
have called you the witch because that's like you were
Hansel and Grittel witch, like throwing people into like the
cauldron of like you were not a good person. So
just I don't know who she is, but yeah, she
traumatized this person, and it's terrible Jim, who was nine,

(44:43):
and Delbert Junior were placed in a different orphanage, uh
the Annie Wilkin Meyer Home in Davenport, Iowa. Unfortunately, dal
Delbert Junior was basically farmed out to foster parents, and
which again we've covered on other things, was a thing
for a while that people who owned farms would offer

(45:05):
to be foster parents because it was free child labor.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
They interviewed him, he said they were just looking for
farm hands.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah. However, within a few weeks he was able to
go back to the orphanage. I'm gonna guess he had
already seen so much in his life he probably was
just like, no, that's not going to work for me,
so we get back. The mother of the original of
the six children actually ends up filing for divorce, becomes remarried,

(45:33):
and in nineteen forty six, then are you're good? You
had a squeaky nose there for a second. Yeah, I'm good, Okay,
returns to the Christian Children's Home to get her children back. Unfortunately,
by that point only Florence was still there. Jim and
Dilbert remained in the other orphanage until nineteen fifty two,
when the state sent them back to the mother Sadly,

(45:56):
she would never see her other three children again, as
she died in nineteen So she divorces, gets remarried, seems
like she gets her life back enough to get her children,
gets her daughter back, locates the other two, and is
reunited with three of her six children, but unfortunately then
passes away in nineteen eighty. So now it's just the

(46:18):
three kids left that know each other, at least right
Unbeknownst to the Heck family, one year old Sharon had
been placed in the home of another couple from Jamaica
of Jamaica, Illinois Iowa. Sorry Jamaica, Iowa. I was first.

(46:40):
I was like, they did not adopt somebody to Jamaica,
No Jamaica, Iowa. She had been renamed. So that's this.
This is where things start to kind of get complicated.
Is that three other children are adopted out to multiple fans,
to each to a different family, and all three of
them their names are.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Changed, different names.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, so everyone at the end of the day is
still unknown where the three year old Tommy was adopted
and if he had a new name, it's unknown. We
fast forward to Doris Okay, she was one of the
three kids adopted to a different family. She's married, and

(47:23):
it moves to Oregon. In nineteen sixty seven, she starts
her search for her siblings. By nineteen seventy, her and Sally,
another one of the kids that had been adopted to
a family, are able to reunite and become very close.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
The two girls that got adopted out find each other.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Yeah, so you've got the three older kids who ended
up getting back with their mother.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
And two girls and a boy are adopted out.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yes, and then the two girls have connected yep. So
the two girls, between the two of them are able
to kind of combine their knowledge and documentation about what
they have about their childhood, and they come up with
the city of origin where they were from, which was
Council Bluffs. So immediately Doris gets on the phone calls

(48:09):
Council Bluff. She by the end of the day is
able to talk to an aunt, two of her brothers,
and her sister. So now we've connected those ones. So
she found her those three siblings. The siblings were spread
out through four estates Iowa, Oregon, Texas, and Arkansas, so
not super close to each other either. April twenty fourth,

(48:30):
forty five years after the family had been removed from
their home. They were able to reunite with a celebration.
They even had a cake, but there was one person missing, Tommy.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
The youngest boy, three year old boy.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Because Iowa at the time still had sealed adoption records,
the family has not been able to put to find
much information about Tommy. They show us a picture of
him at about four years old, because he was adopted
through the Crew's home orphanage in Councilble of Iowa around
the same age, so he was at the orphanage for
about a year. Most likely he was adopted by a

(49:07):
Midwest family and he may or may not know if
he was adopted. His biggest distinction distinction as a physical characteristic,
he had a double ear lobe on his right ear.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Yeah, and they show us the pictures of it.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Yep, And that's kind of where it leaves us. So
you even see the reuniting of the other siblings X,
Y or Z. So we've got five siblings looking for Tommy.
You're ready for your update update? Okay, solved, but not
right away. As a result, I think of the rebroadcasting,
the show received hundreds of tips from viewers about the case.

(49:43):
One was from a lady who claimed to be Tommy's
adoptive cousin. She recognized the baby baby photograph and realized
that it was likely the young boy her aunt and
uncle had adopted while she was young. She'd stayed at
their house for the summer, and that was the summer
that they had adopted a little boy. She contacted the

(50:07):
show and left a message saying that Tommy was a
teacher in Wisconsin. However, the family ended up having seven
hundred leads to follow up on, and they'd kind of
discounted that tip as like one of the less likely options.
Don't know why, but it made it to the bottom

(50:27):
of the pile. But this lady also doesn't tell her
cousin Tommy because he had never mentioned to her. It
seems like they'd grown up together about having any desire
to find it a biological family, and that is something
that people either choose or not choose to do, and

(50:49):
she didn't want to push that on him if he
wasn't interested. Then the advice of another relative, she sends
her cousin Tommy a letter and mark confidential March twenty seventh,
nineteen ninety three. The letter explains that his biological siblings
were looking for him. He actually overjoyed to find this out.

(51:14):
She was able to give him his sister's phone number,
and the two were reunited by phone within twenty four hours.
He'd spoken to all of his siblings and learn about
his adoption story. He actually ended up only growing up
sixty five miles away from Council Bluff, so he lived
really close to where he had originally been born. He'd

(51:35):
known he was adopted the whole time and that he
had biological siblings, but the thought about searching for them
was really overwhelming because he didn't even know at the
time where to start at. Yeah, a few weeks later,
on Sunday Easter Sunday, April eleventh, nineteen ninety three, so
three years after the original broadcast, Tommy and his siblings
were reunited at a relatives home and Council Bluff. They

(51:58):
spent four days together talking about their lives, visiting the
graves of their mother and grandmother, and got a family
portrait taken. So there you go, all right. Yeah, I
actually looked up the sister that was from Oregon. She
has a Facebook's not very active, but it looks like

(52:18):
she lives like outside the Portland area, in one of
the smaller little areas, has a couple of grand babies.
A lot of the siblings have passed away obviously in
the last several years, so it seems like happy endings
all around.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
All right. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Okay, before you get started, I want to give a
shout out to her. A few new locations we've had
download our podcast. So if you're one of these people, welcome.
We're excited to have you. We've got Dayton, Ohio. I've
never been to Ohio, have you?

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Oh? Okay, what'd you do there?

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Well? I lived in Indiana, so it was close. Okay,
I passed through and visited some sites.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Okay, and I'm California. Have you ever been there?

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yes? Oh you have in Disneyland.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Oh that's right, Disneyland. Yeah, we love Disneyland. Disneyland ever
wants to sponsor this podcast, good luck. We would be
happy to come there with our family and vlog the
whole experience. So just slide in my DMS if you're
ready for that. Disneyland and then a little bit more
local Pori, Arizona. So there we go. That is all

(53:33):
I have for you. Ben has our last story of
the day. What do you got for us?

Speaker 2 (53:40):
All right? I got kind of the story of the
being in a triangle, but not really.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
I know, I was very It was a lot of
rollercoaster of emotions for me. I got very excited and
then I saw airplanes and I got very unexcited.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Yeah. Well you saw history and you were like, I'm.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
Out aviation history is just not really into that your thing.
But you enjoy aviation stuff. Yeah, so I was like perfect,
You're like perfect. Oh, well, here's the thing. You know
what I took the lost loves.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
So those what's are rough?

Speaker 1 (54:18):
They are rough? All right?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
All right? So I story December fifth, nineteen forty five. Yeah, okay,
Fort Lauderdale, Florida. We got a This is five Navy
Avenger torpedo bombers with fourteen men making the crew. This

(54:40):
is known as Flight nineteen. They take off on a
training mission. Five hours later, they've all disappeared. Technically, they
say this was the start of the mystery of the
Bermuda Triangle.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Interesting, Okay, I didn't know that either.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
So we learn about the Brimina Triangle. That's this triangle
that goes from Miami to Bermuda. To Puerto Rico. That
area there.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Just a big open part of the ocean, like a
four hundred thousand square miles a lot of ocean.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
It's a lot. And since then it has supposedly claimed
over one hundred ships and planes. They've all disappeared in
that area and taken the lives of this.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
If you guys could see how far back Ben is
rolling his eyes into his skull right now.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Well, I am not disputing that this is all true. Okay,
it is. These are all documented and taken a thousand lives.
That is a lot.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
That's a lot of lies.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Yeah, all right, But it is flight nineteen that kind
of has started this, you know legend. All right, we
get told that aviation investigator by the name of John Mayer.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Meyer, John Mayer did he go on to have a
no very terrible pop career.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
He doesn't. He thinks that he's kind of figured out
the mystery of Flight nineteen, and then if he can
kind of prove it, it kind of not necessarily disproves
that the Premi or tangle, but you know, hey, maybe
the Premi in triangle is noticing.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
He's just fascinated about how five bombers disappear and a
fair great question.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
So he So we kind of learned about this flight nineteen,
and I'll be honest, I don't know much about this,
So I'm taking this all from what Unsolved Mysteries tells us,
because there's a lot out there on this whole thing.
I'm a lot written about it. But we learned that
Charles Taylor was the command of the flight nineteen. He
was kind of the main pilot overseeing it because it

(57:07):
was a training mission.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
My daughter and I were watching that episode together. When
he walked on the TV screen, you were like, hey,
hello captain, Hello pilot. Yeah, he was like in his
pilot onesie, which I don't know why because I'm normally
a guy in a Onesie's not really going to be
my thing. But there's something about that pilot and his
hat and he had his aviators on. That guy's jaw

(57:31):
could slice cheddar cheese. He was fierce. He took his
glasses off of both me and my daughter said he
looks better with his glasses on. But whoever that actor was,
he was hot. He was eighties peak like. This was
like it reminded me of Tom Cruise in that one
movie What's it called, Oh he's the pilot top Gun. Yes,

(57:52):
top Gun. It was very It gave all the top
Gun feels.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
It's great. Both movies are great.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Anyway, Sorry, all right.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
So he's the commanding pilot. He's going to oversee this thing.
He had over twenty five hundred hours of flight time,
so the experienced, yes, very experienced pilot. But they're doing
the briefing for this thing, and they say he actually
he'd asked the guy, It's like, hey, listen, man, I

(58:20):
don't want to go on this. I'm not feeling well.
I'm just not feeling right. Can you just assign somebody
else to go on it? And his commander pretty much
said no, you're the only one I got, so you're
flying this mission. So he doesn't get to So at
two ten they took off and what I said, it

(58:42):
was five. So it was four other pilots. They were
training pilots, but they technically even still had a bunch
of hours. All four of these pilots they were brand new. Yeah,
they had a lot of hours for student pilots. So
what they were supposed to do was fly one hundred
and twenty nautical miles southeast, do their bomb run their

(59:09):
training bomb run, then fly seventy right, seventy three miles northwest,
and then fly one hundred and twenty miles southwest back
to Fort Lauderdale. So met triangle. Yep, but east of Florida.
That way on it okay, So they head out, they

(59:34):
complete the bomb run, and they say about three ten
this is all from radio communication. Taylor relays that his
compass is malfunctioned.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
It's not working, which happens a lot in the Bermuda Triangle.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Very true. So he gets lost, and he was supposed
to be the guy in the back kind of watching
the pilots, watching them do the run, which he did.
He watched them do their run. Now he's kind of
taken command and saying this is the way we're going.
We're flying this way. We're going to go this way.

(01:00:14):
So for some reason, Taylor thought that they were over
the Florida Keys, which doesn't make any sense because the
Florida Keys are west. Yeah, Florida, and if they flew
one hundred and twenty miles southeast, Yeah, why would he think? Yeah?

(01:00:36):
But we hear from this aviation investigator John Mayer that hey,
he thinks he mistook the Florida Keys from a different
set of islands that are actually east of Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Yeah, there's a set of islands over there that are uninhabited,
had lots of pigs on them. I remember from like
World Expansion and Exploration. There's a handful of islands to
the east of Florida that people used a lot to
stop for ships. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
So because Taylor thought they were in one place, he
had them fly east. Oh no, so if because what
he was thinking that he.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Thought that they'd flown too far west.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
And that they needed they were over the Florida Keys,
they needed to fly east to hit Florida. Well, if
they weren't actually over the Keys and they were over
this island that was already east of Florida, they were
flying east into the vast ocean. Yeah, so they do.
He commands these pilots to fly east.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
They fly east, none of their compasses working.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
I don't know, Like I said, I'm they didn't tell us.
And that was it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Cloudy where they could see the sun.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
They did say they kind of ran into some storms. Okay,
so uh there was He says, let's fly east. They
thought would do this, We're going to hit Florida. They
Mayor doesn't think. He thinks they flew pretty far into
the ocean. The last communication that we actually have is

(01:02:20):
if one of the pilots say, if we just head west,
we get home, like pretty much said we need he's
pretty much telling him, we need to go the other way.
We're not where you think we are. Yeah, so I
think Mayor says he thinks they did. They turned west

(01:02:41):
and flew west for forty nine minutes. By this time
it's five o'clock. They're losing daylight, and these guys are
running out of fuel.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
So I would be at a tent. And that's the
I think these We were obviously trained to handle much
more stressful situations that I am, but I have often
that at some point panics starts to also set in. Yeah, yeah,
which doesn't help you think clearly.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
So Mayor his investigation and what he thinks. He thinks
they flew west and then they didn't find anything. They
lost a plane and they didn't Then they turned around
and flew east again, sugar, Yeah, and eventually they all

(01:03:27):
were lost. We don't know exactly the last moments. Obviously,
if we did, we know where they were. But yeah,
we don't. So by eight o'clock that night, all of
them were down, So obviously the Navy sends out rescue.
They searched, They searched for five days, nothing was found.
He does.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Yeah, he mentioned, yeah, a few lights.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Some ships had said they'd spotted flares, but they thought
it was actually just lights from different aircrafts are from
different things. But he doesn't think that's it. We're getting
a lot of mayor what he thinks happened the other time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
He's putting different reports together and seeing if any of
these timelines match up and that maybe back then they
wouldn't have had the ability to do yeah, to help
him narrow his search down.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
So he has narrowed down that he thinks one of
the planes is thirty miles off the coast of Florida
near Cape Canaveral.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Crazy that that plane was thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Miles, which is really like not a long on flight.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
You're looking at several minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Yeah, these things move it two three hundred miles an hours. Yeah,
you know, he can. Yeah, they're not.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Five more minutes and they probably would have seen land.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah, So he thinks that he thinks that's where one
of the first planes went down. Then where the rest
of them are. He thinks they turned around and went far,
but they're out from the off the coast. Okay, right,
So he's been I guess since the early eighties he's
been putting this all together, trying to figure out he

(01:05:03):
wants to find these planes and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Recover them, and he wants to see, Yeah, he can
find any a mystery, Right, where do these guys go down?

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Well, it catches a break in nineteen eighty six The Challenger.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Yeah, on the heels of a terrible American disaster.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Terrible that explodes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
People were watching that life It is awful. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Anyways, during the recovery effort of that where they were
picking up all the debris and that they found a
plane wreck four hundred feet down off the.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Pretty much where it really almost like X marks the Spy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Where John thinks this first plane went down.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
The fact that he was able to narrow it down
to this area and then it ends up a plane
is ended up being found there is shows how skilled
this guy is at his job.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Yeap. So he gets the ability to get some funds
and he does a dive at that plane wreck and
we see the footage of it and He's like, well,
we need to find out if this is one a
torpedo bomber, the one of the Avenger bombers, and then
if it's one of the five from flight nineteen. They

(01:06:23):
show us video. He says, Listen, there's some very distinct
things from this plane. One is the bombay and that
you see in the footage. This plane is upside down
in the water and it clearly has a bombay bombay, right.
The other thing is is the wheels come up and

(01:06:43):
the bombay.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Is underneath the plane. It's like a little flippity.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Flap, a flippity flap that drops the bombs.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
That drops the bombs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Yeah, and this was a torpedo bomber, so that drops
the torpedo into the water.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
And yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
That So the other is the wheels retracted up and
it actually had like a cutout for the wheel in
the wing, which is very distinct.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
It's actually when my son and I went to the
Air and Space a couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Ago Air and Space Museum here in Tucson, we saw
there was a plane like this where it really the
you know, the the landing gear goes up and it
fits into the actual like wing of the airplane.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Yeah, it is. It's very cool. So when I saw it,
I was like, oh, I saw that a couple of
weeks ago. And in the video, sure enough, there is
an the overwhel overwheel, well that is what they call it,
where the landing gear goes up. And then the other
distinct feature of this plane is the turret behind the pilot.

(01:07:49):
And even though it's upside down, you can kind of
see it. They tried to extract a piece of the
wing to just try to see if they could get
a serial number to match it to one of the
five bombers. Yeah, so, but they weren't able to do that.
They did, but they could not find a serial number.
And now John is just trying to get more money.

(01:08:13):
He wants to take the whole thing out and look
at it and find out if he really did find
one of these bombers from flight nineteen. That's where unsold
mysteries leaves us. Is this a mystery? Is this one
of them? What is the Premeter Triangle? Does it make
all these planes go haywire? And you know, is this

(01:08:34):
the first mystery of the Premeter Triangle? Okay update update
never been found. So I did find out that August thirteenth,
nineteen ninety one. It did pull that wreckage. It was
not one.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
Shut up, It wasn't no whose plane was it?

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
So I I did more recarch. We lost a lot
of planes and training in that multiple multiple planes went
down during training in that area, especially during World War Two.
We were running a lot of we were flying a
lot of planes, okay, and so we lost there's I

(01:09:19):
have multiple conflicting reports, but twenty to thirty planes were
lost just in that area in a short timeframe. It
could be more so he John's changed what he actually thinks.
A couple of them went down in Florida. Supposedly there
was some wreckage found in some swamp lanes and stuff

(01:09:42):
like that. But to this day, no confirmed findings from
any of the planes from the.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Flight nineteen bomber planes they're not small disappear and nothing's
been found. That's crazy, But.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
You gotta think it's the ocean triangle. It's the ocean
and the fact of you could look and be one
hundred feet away. You don't go that direction. I know
you will never find it. You have to know exactly
where to look.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
I understand. The ocean terrifies me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
So I will say I don't know a lot about
the breaming in a triangle. I haven't done a lot
of reading, but everything I have we listen to some
podcasts on it with the kids one time on the
way back. It does seem there's some weird things that happen,
but there also is lots of flights and stuff that
go through there with no problem. So I don't know,

(01:10:42):
but it is clearly some weird something.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Seems to be happening there, because I've heard of several stories,
and it might have been that podcast that people report
their compasses not working. And the problem is when you
are in a vast blue landscape gape where everything looks
the same and you can't see the moon or the
stars or the sun, that's your only other sense of direction.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Yeah, I would that would be terrifying. And the effect
of you're over this and it looks all all the
same in every direction, and if you don't have that
thing to tell you which which way to go.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
And one way is going to forget you to land,
and one way is going to get you, it's going
to take you a heck of a lot longer. If
you have the abit, like you've got to be a
major airplane to get that far.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
Thankfully, now we have much better navigations all that stuff.
Literally all those guys had to go off of was
their compass, yeah, telling them which direction. If that stops working,
you are in trouble, yeah, big time. And you literally
have to pick a direction and stick to it because

(01:12:01):
you can't keep going back and forth.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
And that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
And if you stick to the wrong direction, you are
tough on a luck. Yeah, Yeah, that's scary. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
I for you to triangle terrifies me, Like I don't Yeah,
I don't know what's there. I don't know why it
interferes with magnets, and because really that's what compass is, right,
I don't know. I've read. I mean, there's some insane
things that go all the way to it being some

(01:12:35):
sort of way to time travel or to like go
into a different like dimension like stranger things, upside down
sort of stuff. But an abnormal amount of things have
gone haywire in that area. So I would just prefer
not to stay. I just if I'm ever flying somewhere,
let's just let's go around about that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Do you think the time travel portals that exist, Yes,
I think everyone knew what your answer was going.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
Okay, I was actually thinking about this last night. Listen,
that's our recap. You guys can move on if you
want to, but this, I was actually thinking about this
last night. I am an optimistic person who loves all
things mysterious, magical, beautiful, glitter, all of this. Right. I

(01:13:32):
want rainbows and sunshine and cupcakes and sprinkles, and I
want everyone to be happy. Yeah, and I want every
dream to come true. I that's how I try to
live my life and try to interact with people with
that mindset. So when like you were asking me the

(01:13:53):
other day about these things bigfoots, aliens, x y or Z, fairies, unicorns,
time travel, you know, going to a different dimension, all
of that stuff, I understand logically that it's likely untrue. However,
there is a part of me that loves the unknown

(01:14:15):
and the mystery and the possibility that something spectacular could happen.
And so when I hear these stories that people share
with these theories, I listen to them and it just
flames that fuel that maybe something amazing could happen. And

(01:14:39):
I hold onto that hope and I've chosen to keep
that flame very safe. From all of the adult mindsets
of the world and the math and the science and
the X Y or Z, because as humans, we have
figured out a lot, but we have not figured out everything.
And I think there are things in this world that
we don't know how to explain, or that maybe only

(01:15:02):
a handful of people have encountered. I hope someday to
be one of those people that encounter something amazing, as
long as it doesn't like put me in danger. But
that's kind of my mindset about it, is that, Yeah,
I know it's kind of fun and silly and that
it's probably not true, but I am going to keep
my little flame going, and that's I like that little

(01:15:25):
flame to be there. So yes, I do believe in
time travel. I've actually been down separate rabbit holes where
people have claimed to have experience of some sort of
like with a time traveler, things like that, and I
find those stories fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Yeah, there's a town, but a small town south of
us here. There's what's a story that goes around that
there's some portal down there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
Really I should go explore it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
I've told me about this.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
I where's this portal? We need to find this place.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
I think if we all knew where the portal was,
people would go and look at it. Okay, see it.
But here's I've.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
You've been around that town a little bit, around a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
I have not seen everything clearly because I haven't found
a portal yet. So well, if I do, I'll let
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
I'll be the first to know. Yeah, okay, is that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
A belief of the Bermudach Triangle that there it also
is a portal of some sort? Interesting?

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Yeah, and there's even remember the Malaysia flight that went down.
We're just kind of winked out.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
Nope, I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
That's a fascinating because if that's not even that long
ago in aviation history, that the airline full of people
literally was just on the map and then gone, yeah,
that's a better one gone. And of course in the
Bermuda Triangle, Uh no, this one wasn't. I think it

(01:16:59):
was over in a Malaysia. Malaysia. Yeah, so it was
they left Malaysia, so that's that makes sense, right. I
can't remember if they were going north.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Or west, but well they said they were. They were
really Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Anyways, and like long story short, that's been one of
the theres but Yeah, the Bermuda Triangle. There is some
beliefs and theories that this either has some sort of
ability to transport you to a different place, is also
supposedly maybe a high area where people get taken by UFOs,

(01:17:36):
like all kinds of stuff that if someone wanted to
abduct American or technology or or you know, the Earth technology,
that they could just disappear like that and they're over
the ocean and no one's ever gonna The assumption is
it's under the ocean somewhere, so we're never going to
find them.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
What's your thoughts on what themIn of triangle really is.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
I have a feeling that there's probably something messing with
the magnetic polls there.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
Just how the Earth is.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
Yeah, just some sort of seismic activity under the Earth,
and we know so little about like deep under the
ocean and how that affects even right now. I was
telling you in Antarctica there is weird sounds they called
them ghostly sounds, and I tried to see if I
could find a recording of it coming out from deep

(01:18:25):
under the ice caps in Antarctica, and scientists cannot figure
out any as of Yeah, because this is new kind
of happening. Now, any scientific reason why there should be
this kind of noise wave coming from this area.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
That just means that they haven't It's just a new
mystery that they haven't solved. They haven't sought, it can't
be solved. Yeah, exactly. And so is there something happening
under the ocean that's causing things?

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Yeah? Possibly is there a time portal or a portal
there that switched people to a different dimension? That's nuts.
But I mean I've also listened to like there's a
physicist on TikTok who talks about like the science behind

(01:19:17):
time travel and wormholes and all of this stuff, like
how they could be possible. We don't have the technology
obviously to be able to do these things, but how
they could theoretically be possible, And listening to him talk
about this is insane. And you're like, Okay, well, if
this could be recreated, if the technology was there, is
there a possibility that somehow that's happening in the Earth.

(01:19:39):
I don't know, But what are your thoughts on the
Bermuda triangle?

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
You know, like I said, I don't have a lot
of knowledge on it, so it's really hard for me
to even form an opinion on it. Yeah, I've read
very little. This is actually the first time I've heard
this story. Yeah, so, and there's a lot actually out
there on it. I could have read a ton and
I ride up a little bit on it, but not

(01:20:04):
a ton. I am in the same boat most likely.
But this is from very I don't like I don't
like making assumptions on stuff. I don't have a huge
a non clearly weird stuff happens there. I think it's
kind of I'm in the same boat you are. I
think there's just some type of thing that scientists just
haven't solved, that something goes on there, that some type

(01:20:27):
of field or however, just in.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
That none of these people that have experienced that have
lived to tell the tale.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
Yeah, But at the same time, there are people that
do fly through there or sail through there that have
no problem. So maybe there's just something at certain times
that causes some type of shift or something that causes
things to go haywire. And if you're not prepared for that,
but you don't have the technology to get through it,
you know whatever. But I don't know. I honestly I

(01:20:55):
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
I don't well, I don't count that as our question
for the day, how we feel about the Munda Triangle.
Since I thought that was I mean, that's actually ended
up being a perfect segue into our question. So that's
our episode. Guys, thank you so much for joining us
once again, and Ben and I will be back here
again next week where we kept another episode.

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
Of Unsolved Mysteries.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
Bye.

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