Confession Call: Who Killed Tracy Kirkpatrick? + Folsom Escape, Lost Sailor & Missing Judith Hyams.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everybody, I'm Sierra and I'm Ben, and welcome back
to another episode of The Unsolved Couple, where every week
Ben and I recap one of your original gateway drugs
into true.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Crime unsolved mysteries.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hey, Ben, before we get started, I want to share
with you a new podcast that's just entered the scene.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
This is the Original Sin Podcast, hosted by Kai Alexander Morgan,
where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard.
We help the families, friends, and victims of the missing
and the murdered, bringing awareness, truth, and accountability to the
cases that still haunt communities. Listen now on YouTube, Rumble, Spotify,

(00:53):
Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, and Podbean. For exclusive information, case updates,
and a original merchandise, visit the Original sinpodcast dot com
where true crime meets purpose and Ben.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
We're live live. Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
We should get one of those signs like flashes.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
And by we should get one of those signs, you
mean me, I should get one of those signs just
to tell me, well, I know when we're going live.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
I know, but you know I would like it like this.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
So now that I have been telling you that we're
going live, now you also want a visual.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
I like visuals.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I've got a visual for you.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
It makes me feel special when I see it.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
You are special. So speaking of special, do you want
to brag? No, you don't, okay, all right, Well, Ben
had something cool happened this week, but I guess we're
not going to talk about it. So anything else you
want to share with our friends?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Uh? No, No, okay, not that I can think of.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, thing you can think of, not off the top.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Of it, Okay, anything you would like to start.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
We just had. We had a great week.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
We did have a good week.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, so far, fun weekend. We're not caught up yet.
We are still recording. By the skin of our teeth. Yep,
we're recording on a Sunday late afternoon in this literally
drops in like forty eight hours less than I.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Think we could probably get some done this week.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
I love I love that you think that you will
do that. I can get it done.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
I will try, Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
If not, due to several circumstances between now and the
end of December, you will have some time off.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta take some.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Time, not for anything bad, but just because you have
to burn stuff. By the end of the year.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, a lot of my vacation days that I'm supposed
to use. Yeah, I got to use more of it
before the end, I.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Know, which is wild because this is a problem we
have never had, not.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Taking vacation days. Not vacations, but days off.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oh even that we'll always go do something.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, taking days off has never been a shit.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
It's been a crazy year. It feels like I don't
think we're alone and feeling that way.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, but we usually go to Oregon in the summer.
We didn't just sharing.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
That always be sad.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
It takes a bunch of our time.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yeah, So I'm hoping during that chunk we can get
back to where we're comfortable, well where I'm comfortable.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah. Here likes to have at least what three or
four in the bank.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
I like to have three to four in the bank
just in case something happens.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, we are cutting it a little slim, Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
I do, Like I said, I've got a couple of
podcast friends that have so generously offered that if it
need be, they've got episodes that we can grab from
them and pop it on here. And I mean it's
a win win. Their amazing podcast hosts, and I would
even venture to say far better than me. And Okay, well,

(04:09):
since we don't have anything else to share of note,
we will get rocking and rolling on today's case to share.
I have my last month or so of my life
has been pretty crazy busy because you've just been You
took on a project and so that kind of was

(04:30):
all consuming, and that project wrapped up the end of
this last week. Yeah, and so I feel a little
bit of that. I don't want to say burden, just
I've taken on a lot more of the turner management
than I usually do, and so I'm glad to have

(04:50):
you back as an equal, yoked partner. And I'm sure
the kids would love to also, not like Ben does
the dish most nights after dinner. The last month or so,
that hasn't been happening because you have studied and had
stuff to do, and you're frankly exhausted. And so the

(05:11):
kids have really stepped up also and done a ton
of them. I'm sure they will be very grateful to
not have so many dish duties handed to them.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Probably, Yeah, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
All right, Well, it's almost Thanksgiving. We're really excited you
guys are here today. We are recapping season three, episode seventeen.
It does feel like season three has been going on
way longer than season.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Till the same thing today. I felt like we have
been in season three for a long but season.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Two only had what nineteen episodes, not even that, I
don't think I think it was eighteen eighteen nineteen.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, it just feels like, but we're only on episode seventeen. Great,
it just feels like.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
I just remember being a little like, whoa, we're already
into season two and then that went by really quick.
I'm like, this podcast is going to wrap up before
it even takes off, and we're not going to have
anything else to talk about.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
That's okay, No, that's all right.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
I'm already planning what's next, all right, okay, all right.
So yeah, season three, episode seventeen. I actually really enjoyed
this episode.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
This was a lot. There was a lot in this one.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, and fair warning, we might be here for you
guys for a while, and we'll try to keep the
banter a little light. Not that we have already made
a good example of that, but a lot of the stories,
well a couple of stories we're telling today are very deeply.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Involved as Yeah, they can get deep. Hopefully we're not
going to get too deep in them.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, I'll try. I have let me see you all right,
I have nine Are you gonna start us out?

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I have nine pages of notes. Well let's buckle up, buttercup. Okay,
so real quick, before we dive in and things get
too serious, please don't forget to follow the Unsolved Couple
wherever you're listening, and if you enjoy what we're doing,
please take a moment to leave a five star rating

(07:19):
and review it for those of the people that don't
know it is how then the podcast hosts like Spotify
and Apple push our podcast out to other people, which
allows us to keep growing. More people to find us
and have us keep bringing you more of the unsolved
mysteries that you guys knew and loved growing up. And

(07:42):
if you don't like what we have to say, please
just send me an email on self couplegmail dot com.
I'll listen to you. I won't respond, but you can
pend your anger there instead of on Apple review. That'd
be great. So today we are talking about Tracy Kirkpatrick

(08:09):
and her unsolved murder. So here we go seventeen year
old Tracy Kirkpatrick was from point of rocks just outside.
Are you good with your ice there? You just want
to shake? Why don't you put it right up to
the mic and shake it around for us? Little Frederick, Maryland.

(08:31):
She was the third of four kids. She had a brother,
I believe in two sisters, just like me. Smart, thoughtful,
a little reserved, and she loved reading and writing poetry.
And her mom, Dianas, always talked about that she was
a hard worker and that she had big plans. She

(08:54):
was an honorable student, and she held down two part
time jobs, and she was saving up to attend business
college and then dreamed of becoming an attorney thereafter. One
of these jobs that she worked was I got the
name of the store. They didn't give it on Unsolved Mysteries,
but it was called Eileen's Ladies' Sportsquear. And I context

(09:20):
is going to be important later to understand the size
and vastness of this location. You guys will see why
a little while. But this was in the west Ridge
Square shopping center, not a big mall. This was not
like some huge The only reference point I have is
Lloyd Center in Park Or not Washington Square. It wasn't

(09:43):
like that this was a smaller shopping complex. On the
night of March fifteenth, nineteen eighty nine, Tracy was scheduled
to close the store by herself. It actually turned out
that this was the very first time she'd been scheduled
to close the store on her own. Her mom and
the store manager had both stopped in earlier in the

(10:04):
evening to check in with her at about eight forty five,
about fifteen minutes before closing, Tracy was left solely on
her own. Two hours later, around ten to fifty pm,
a mall security guard noticed the lights were still on
inside the store. The front door was unlocked, so he

(10:27):
called out, but there was no answer. He walked to
the back of the store in a storage room, he
found Tracy on the floor. She had been stepped multiple times,
and called police. At almost the exact same time, Tracy's
parents were already on their way to the mall. She
was usually home much earlier, and I looked the mall

(10:47):
to her home was about a twenty to twenty five
minute drive, and when she didn't come home, they knew
something was wrong. When they arrived and saw police cars
surrounding the shopping center. I can't imagine that. You probably
told yourself the whole way here, Oh, her battery just died.
This was so long there was a cell phone. So

(11:08):
if she locked her keys in the car anything, she's
stuck there. And that's what I would have been telling myself,
which was going on and then to pull up and see.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
They did in form the officers that their daughter was
working inside the building, and then that's what that's at
that point is when they learned that she had, unfortunately
passed away. Diana actually went into shock and had to
be treated at the hospital. Police couldn't understand why anyone

(11:45):
would want to hurt this girl. There was no signs
of any sort of sexual assault. The store's cash was
still in the register and even someone was sitting on
the counter in plain sight. But oddly enough, her purse
was missing and that did include her car keys. No

(12:06):
struggle was seen, and the crime scene suggested that the
killer was someone that she knew or had trusted enough
to step in the back with them. The issues found
in the back of the storage room and like an
employees in the area, and they.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Don't think that he forced her back.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Then exactly, Yeah, investigators collected fingerprints, but not a ton
of other things and just move forward.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
How do you collect fingerprints at departments?

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah? Yeah, And I will say later on I read
something that there's a few police officers that mentioned that
they did a terrible job preserving the scene, just something
that they admitted they felt that they had done a
poor job with that. So okay. So unfortunately weeks past

(12:59):
and then and nothing, and then a very strange thing
happened all the way in Las Vegas, Nevada. A confession hotline.
So I actually wondered what this was, so I looked
it up. This was a confession hotline that people would

(13:21):
call and confess things, I guess. But the people that
listened to it for entertainment purposes, like paid a subscription
to call in and listen to it. That's weird, I know,
isn't it weird?

Speaker 2 (13:39):
But we also like craigslist died stuff.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, we just have never had to pay for it.
There's even art exhibit and he's gone online now and
it's postcards that people can write their confessions and to
a postcard, and he like puts it out there and
he did a huge art things made into books. It's
really cool. But again, that just comes up on your
social media feed for free. But yeah, people had to

(14:04):
pay to listen to these confession tapes. But they receive
a call from a man saying that his name was
down and I will at the end of the episode.
I have the whole call, the recording of it, and
I'll play it for everyone at the end of the episode.
So the caller said that he was from Frederick, Maryland,

(14:28):
and that he had stabbed a girl to death. He
said he had used to come into the store and
talk with her from time to time, and one night
they'd had a conversation and it turned into an argument,
and he happened to always carry a knife on him,
so he used it. He ended the call by saying,
I'm sorry about what I did, but nothing can change it.
And the call was actually traced to a safe way

(14:51):
like a payphone in Walkersville, just a few miles from Frederick,
so this is all happening in the same area. Detective
listened to the tape and felt like the caller knew
details that only the caller would know. He believed the
confession was real. So police then do something that I

(15:12):
think was very It seemed to be more common back then.
They did this with BTK as well. They took out
an open letter in the mail calling out to the
person who had reached out to them and asking them
to basically come forward because he had mentioned something about
that Marylynd had the death penalty, so there was no
reason for him to turn himself in.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Well, he said something in the fact of.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
He thought about it then, but it's.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Not going to bring her back, so what's the point.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, sounds like a real awesome guy. But they did
put in that letter as well that they would remove
the death penalty off the table if he wanted to
come in and talk. So nothing came from that though.
Two weeks later the case took another weird turn. A
woman in Massachusetts worked as a psychic started In fact,

(16:03):
I will say this is the first time that she
didn't call the police with nothing. She actually had something,
but not anything that she felt that she had perceived. Okay,
she started getting phone calls from a young man who
called himself Sean. He was obsessed with finding Tracy's killer.

(16:24):
She didn't really believe what he was talking about, and
she asked him to like mail in proof of something,
so he sent her a bunch of like mail clippings
and stuff, and when she saw the handwriting, she just
thought this was way more personal than someone who was

(16:46):
just trying to find justice for this girl, and so
out of an abundance of caution, she reached out to
the police. She was able to listen to the confession
tape and said that she wrecked organized the voice. It
sounded like the same man she had been talking to
who had been calling himself Sean earlier on the confession tape.

(17:06):
He went by the name Don, so police traced the
return addressed he used to send the clippings, which if
this who puts your own address on something? But that's
not here North There. At this point, the house was
in Walkersville, the same town as the call had been
made from, and the man who lived there wasn't named
Don or Sean. But three different people claim to have

(17:29):
recognized this voice from a confession when the local radio station,
actually on the anniversary of Tracy's murder, all played it
around the same time. Police searched his home. They found
newspaper clippings, but no proof that he actually had any
connection with Tracy, and the physical evidence they couldn't link
him to the crime. So they did take some DNA

(17:52):
or physical evidence of some sort from him, but it
was never able to link him to anything. Oddly enough,
he used to answer questions and invoked his Fifth Amendment.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Right, yeah, I don't know. This is everything about this
is odd. Right, Well, because you have a guy calling
the lady sayings the same the address where he sent that,
and then people called in when they heard his voice
on the radio and said, hey, I think it's that guy,

(18:24):
and it I'll trace back to that same person.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, but then the actual physical evidence didn't match.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, we don't really know what physical evidence.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
No, we don't add No, but he has officially been
cleared as a suspect by the police. Okay, so take
that for what it was or what it is. I guess,
I don't know. I don't have access to these case.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
File there's they actually don't give a lot of details.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
No, they don't. And so Tracy was actually laid to
rest on March twentieth, nineteen eighty nine, in Oak Grove
Cemetery near Pittsburgh, and poem that she had once recited
for her family that she actually was very into the
author and stuff of the poem is engraved on her
tombstone for all to read, and it's basically talking about

(19:12):
that once I'm gone, don't even think about me. Just
find happiness in your life. And so that's kind of
where Unsolved Mystery leaves us.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, all right, updates.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Okay, you guys, everyone just buckle up for this. I'm
going to hopefully this all makes sense. There is a
lot out there. So before we go into our next part,
I want to make something very clear. Here is my
legal disclaimer. The following information reflects theories and opinions shared

(19:57):
publicly on public forums by community members and online researchers.
The man named in all of these places has never
been charged or convicted, or connected with this case in
any way, shape or form that puts him in any

(20:18):
sort of You guys, get what I'm saying. Okay, what
you're saying, what I'm saying is what I'm sharing here
is public speculation, Okay, not established facts.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Update and a nutshell is I'm still unsolved?

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yess. Yes, And now I'm going to get into the
update or the unsolved dot dot.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Dot the theories.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yes, I am not asserting guilt on anyone. I am
only summarizing claims that have circulated around this case for
more than a decade. Now, okay, let's get into it.
We're going to talk about the security guard, who is
not a notable figure at all on the unsolved mysteries.

(21:01):
We don't know nothing about him, right, No, No, they
didn't make him a point anything. His name, ironically is
Don Okay, and he's the one who also reported finding
Tracy's body that night. At the time, he was working

(21:24):
as a security at the mall, but was also a
deputy for Frederick County Sheriff or sheriff Sheriff's office, and
his father was one of the most prominent members of
the Sheriff's apartment and had been for a long time,

(21:45):
which later will become a part of the speculation. Point
number two I found raised there is roughly ninety minutes
gap in the early evening where Don could not account
for his wear at work that night, and because the
shopping center was small, you could theoretically walk the entire

(22:09):
things multiple times within a one hour window, let alone
a ninety minute window. People wondered why the security guard
down hadn't checked sooner on a store that should have
been closed at nine o'clock. All the lights were on
and the doors were unlocked. That was literally his job

(22:30):
was to make sure that things were locked up and safe,
and he didn't. Years later, a woman claiming to be
Don's daughter came forward and said that she believed, unfortunately,
that her father was involved. She said that growing up,
she overheard several conversations that made her think something wasn't
right with the story. That night. She also claimed that

(22:52):
daring an unaccounted for a period of time, Dawn went
to his estranged white house he was married and living separately,
to change clothing which had been which was the reason
as to why there had been no blood found on him. Again,

(23:15):
none of this has been confirmed. This is just I
don't want to say small Down. This is just this
is this seems to be from everything I've read, the
town's theory around.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
The stories of people are telling m H after that.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
No after the murder, Down left Maryland. In fact, very
shortly after, he moved to Egypt. Interesting H not until
many years later relocated to Florida, where he still lives today.
And because his father was in law enforcement and high
up in leadership, many people within this community have long

(23:53):
believed that the investigation may have been influenced, either intentionally
or just by people people wanting to not believe that
one of their own residents would have committed this crime.
Some residents who have tried to provide new information have
come forward and said they have had a very difficult
time getting anyone in that police department to call them

(24:15):
back or follow up, and that has only fueled the
beliefs that someone might be trying to keep the case
under wraps. Now, none of this has been proven by fact,
but the community conversation has never really died down. And
that's the thing with Tracy's case. There's the official investigation

(24:40):
and then there's the story that the town believes. So
if you happen to have any information about what happened
to Tracy Kirkpatrick that night, or that evening, or anything
at all, please contact the Frederick Police Department at three
h one six hundred twenty one oh two. That's three

(25:03):
oh one six zero zero two one oh two. And
I would like to give myself a gold star for
telling you guys that in such a short I did
what three hours of research on this.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
I'm actually quite impressed.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
I have to be very cautious what I say when
things when there is someone still alive.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Well technically innocent until proven guilty. Yes, And I've said
it's terrible that I was actually surprised this was still unsolved.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
So was I.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
And it's terrible because something like this you would hope
that justice would have been served by So now you.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Were asking me earlier and this isn't a ton of
my notes, So you know, take this kind of information
for what you can. It is interesting to me that
usually when it walks like a duck quacks like a
d D, the whole point of the phone calls the

(26:08):
letters to the psychic, that everything tracing back to this
one unnamed person. There is kind of a belief that
someone in Don's circle because Down also had a roommate
named Sean, and those are the two names that this
unnamed person used, that this was a person who was

(26:34):
trying to help get this case moving in the right
direction without having to take on any sort of the
liability of being responsibility. Yeah, responsibility for being the person
that I said nothing.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
It's hard though, because we've also seen and it continues
to happen today, people insert them for no reason. They
become obsessed with things. So is it possible that this
kid called and confessed and read newspaper clippings and just

(27:14):
became obsessed with it because he wanted to, and he
decided he wouldn't be the first.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
No, but it is one's crazy coincidence that he named
the two names Don and Sean.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, And I don't know, And I don't know.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
My theory is whether Don is guilty orness and is
not for me to decide. I will tell you it
is interesting to me that usually the person who finds
the body was likely the last person to see the person.
The person by the closest connection physically would have been
looked at at some sort of capacity, and he never was.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
But I will say this too, The police in this
say very little. If you notice, the police don't even
say how she did. The only way you find out
how she died is when they played the clip.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
All the police, when they interviewed the police officer before
they played the clip, say she was murdered. They don't
even say happy.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, But if you were wanting to.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Kind of what my point is is that I think
the police were playing their cards extremely close to the chest,
not wanting to give out any information in hopes that
someone would come forward give information that would hopefully incriminate them.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, I will say this is it is in the
same town, but the sheriff's department is different than the police.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Department, totally different.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
But that doesn't mean that potentially there isn't some crossover
of people knowing each other higher up outside of your
standard investigators. That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I don't know. I grew up in a small town.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't I have a hard
time believing that just some detective.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
I don't think this was necessarily a direct police cover up,
but the fact that you there is at least no
evidence appears that you didn't even really look that hard.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
At I will say, that's my point is that they
said so little that sure we could draw the conclusion
that they didn't even look at him, or they never
said a word and they were playing it really close
to the chest that they were looking at.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Well, I would have a hard time believing that the
police would not look at the person that found the body.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
So I will say this. There was a a police
detective later down the road about it, not quite the
twenty year mark, but before that, who took this case
on and it became like his white whale. He was
bound and determined, and he actually took a name forward

(30:14):
to the grand jury with all of his evidence and
said he knew who had done it, and he said
it was a man that lived in the area that
was in his mid twenties, and was comfortable with them
all because of how he had exited the building, because
it had to be through the person left through the
back loading doc that was not easily known, and several

(30:38):
other things. He went and got two thirds of the
grand jury to indict, took it to the prosecutor, and
the prosecutor said, thank you, but I still don't think
we have enough to get this guy, and has never
picked it up since, to the point where the police,
the investigator within a year retired blaming the fact that

(31:00):
he didn't believe that justice was being served in this
county because of politics.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Very possible. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
He was interviewed at the twenty year mark when they
did a big news story about it, and he said
that blatantly, like in a news interview too. And you know,
guys in law enforcement, they don't say stuff like that unless.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
You say that for a reason.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
A reason, and it seemed very pointed, like whoever was
reading that knew that they were kind of being called out.
But again, I probably take that quote with the biggest
weight on all of this, like, oh, excuse me, I
bumped to the mic. So I don't know, guys, I
told Ben I could do a multiple part series on this.

(31:48):
I actually reached out to a few of my podcast
friends and gave them the information of this. From my understanding,
there is some kind of forensic evidence. There's at least
enough at one point that a grand jury was involved
to hear something. I don't believe that there's been any
big changes or any testing or fresh eyes on this
since about two thousand and nine and the technology that

(32:11):
we have now. In twenty twenty five, there was literally
a case just solved this year from the sixties because
they had trace DNA that never up until twenty twenty
five had enough to be tested. It was so degraded,

(32:32):
and they were able to find a man who had
murdered a child in a church building when she went
there to pray. So this is the season of justice
in a lot of ways. And so I would love
to get a bunch of eyes on this because if
there is things that could be tested, and there is
enough that at least at one point a grand jury

(32:53):
was interested in it, I feel like then we're already
so close. We've got much more to work with than
half of these other unsolved stories talked about.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
My home is gone, and I'm calling them cut now
and I ago, I haven't known my name making with me.
I'm hearing my leaning on.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
The amount of guys made me.

Speaker 4 (33:22):
Call myself. I was working in the ladies schools were school.
I often came by and off her when she was
working the wall, and one night when she was in
the four room and we were talking, our conversation turned
into an argument, and so I took good night. I
have with me at all times, and I told him

(33:43):
and a few did later. I realized that I had
to beat us a lot of that I want to know,
joining my brother to the laces or whatever they do
to be that well bring crazy back. So I've decided
that I'm better be free because we have a difficulty
in now.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Okay, chokey, go me for wrapping that up with a
pretty bow for you.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
All right, you're ready for your next one? Is okay?
And you get the story of Steve Wilson most common name.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
How is the research for that?

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Bet? Well, I found his middle name, so that helped
a little bit. But yeah, I'll get into it later.
So you're gonna think this is about a murder, which
it is about a murder, but it's the unsolved mystery
is not the murder, all right. Steve Wilson, he arrives
in Olancha, California. He's very charismatic. He's a licensed pilot,

(34:46):
a certified electrician, and he's a go getter. He goes
to the gym, he hangs out, making friends with all
the locals. That's how they introduced Steve. All right. So
he starts helping out on the cabin bar ranch. Who's
and that's owned by Bill Thornberg and it's a nine
hundred thousand acre ranch.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
I'm thinking that sounds like my kind of if anyone
needs someone to just come live on their ranch and
ranch it for them, Bet and I will be there.
We just need one area to record our podcast.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
So Bill owns this or he owns this ranch, he
works on it. He's very well known. They said he
was a respected horseman.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
There you go interested and.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
He lives there with his twenty two year old daughter,
Callie Thornburg.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Quick question, do you think it's possible today to become
a rancher from the bottom up?

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Probably not. I don't know. I don't know enough about that.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
I don't. But it seems to me as if it
is only not even old money, as in the fact
that there's a lot of it there, because I know
most ranchers don't. But it's like you had to own
that land so long ago. Because I was working in
really state, in Arizona. There are several ranches for a
stale around here. Do you want to know what they
run for? I don't know, six million, twelve million, fourteen million?

(36:09):
Who has that kind of be like? You know what
I want to do on to be a rancher?

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Well, I was actually on a guy's website today. He's
a he's a horseman, all right. Let me look at
Nick Dowers like he trains horses in that he has horses.
I mean, the guy is extremely wealthy, owns he on
his website alone, he's selling horses for two almost two

(36:35):
hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Oh yeah, there's a lot of money to you, But
that's I don't think you can just become a rancher
from the ground up anymore without a silver spoon in
your mouth.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
I'll say, I don't know. I don't know enough about
the industry in that world to speak about it. But anyways,
so Bill's helping out on this ranch with not Bill,
Steve is helping Bill out on the ranch with his daughter, Calli.
So obviously he's a thirty year old charismatic fella. So
what happens He starts dating Calli, and they date for

(37:07):
nine months and they decide they're going to get married.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
According to risky Idea, guys, she's.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Interviewed, says, you know, she had her father's blessing and
they were going to get married. So they eloped to
Reno and went and got married. And she says, of course. Now,
she says, listen, there was a part of me that
knew I shouldn't have done this. I wanted to get out,
but I had.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Broke This girl is stunningly beautiful.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah, and she clearly says like she was getting cold
feet according to her, but she says, you know, I'd
already made the commitment. So they got married and it
was a disaster from the beginning. It lasted two months.
He was abusive verbally and it appears to be physically.
So what does she do. She goes back home to
her debt and he appears to be a good father,

(37:58):
says absolutely, you come back here and I will take
care of you and I will protect you. Yeah, And well,
as you imagine, Steve's not happy with that. So he's
calling and harassing her and Bill, and he's pretty much saying, listen,
you're not welcome here. Stop calling my daughter. This marriage
is over. Don't come around that. He shows up on

(38:21):
the house one morning, three weeks after the breakup, shows up,
starts yelling. The dad comes out, and it's like, get
out of here, get lost. They start, They have a
verbal argument to the point where then Steve pulls out
according to the the reenactment.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Oh attire iron Yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
And starts smashing Bill's truck. Truck So Bill gets his gun, yes,
and Cally says, Dad, don't shoot him, Like it's not
worth it, Like it's not worth getting into this altercation.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
So yeah, that's gonna just yeah, it's gonna cause more problems. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
So because he was coming back there to try to
get Cali back and dad's dad protects his wife or
his daughter anyways. So on May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine,
did I even say what?

Speaker 1 (39:17):
I don't think?

Speaker 2 (39:17):
So sorry, I apologize.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
No, it was met. I got squirrely because I was
watching this thinking, Okay, how can I own a ranch
without having six million dollars?

Speaker 2 (39:28):
So this was in the late seventies. So May twenty ninth,
nineteen seventy nine, Bill gets up early to go do
his chores, start doing his stuff around his ranch and
doesn't return. CALLI comes and is looking for her dad.
He's usually on time, and she can't find him, so
she goes down to the place where she usually starts

(39:48):
his chores, finds his truck with his coffee like still
on his truck and knows instantly something's wrong.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, coffee was still hot, guys, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
So she calls the police. Bill is disappeared and Steve
has gone to no one has seen him. They disappear,
so can't find him. December twenty fourth, nineteen seventy nine.
So seven months later, a teenager is riding his dirt
bike through Sand Canyon, which is about forty five miles away,

(40:18):
and finds human remains, thinks that his parents aren't even
going to believe him, so he takes the skull and
takes it home to show him. So obviously, they instantly
called the police. Yeah, sheriff office goes out, finds the
remains and they positively identify that that is Bill's remains,

(40:40):
and Sheriff's interviewed. He says, we had evidence. They charged
Steve Wilson.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, I think they all still been missing. Immediately, Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
They charge him and now they're just trying to find him.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
This guy, Steve is like a wet band aid in
the public pool. Nobody wants this guy a rind.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
So this goes on for about a year. And this
does not make any sense, but I could not find
any more information on it. Okay, It literally says that
he was on the run for a year. He was
spotted by a game warden in Kodiak, Alaska, but then

(41:20):
he was arrested in Las Vegas. Explain that I can't
maybe how those dots got connected either way. He's arrested
in Las Vegas, he actually confesses to the murder. Yeah,
and he's he pleads guilty, doesn't there's not even trup

(41:42):
pleads guilty to first degree murder, sentenced to twenty five
to life at fulsome prison in California. All right, So
he goes to prison, and he becomes the model inmate,
doing all the things as.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
They always do. Arcissist on one.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
So he starts gaining the trusts of the warden and
the guards, and he becomes the clerk in charge of shipping,
which I guess is like the most coveted job at
this prison. Okay, whatever, I guess. They made license plates there.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
I was sure that I always thought that it was
like a weird like cartoon.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
They remember when they are do you see the in
the reenactment they're making license plates anyway, So he's there
for several years. Over two years, he plans his escape
and on August third, nineteen eighty four, they're doing something.
He gets other inmates to create diversion in the loading

(42:43):
duck so the guards are distracted. In the reenactment, they
have like two forklifts crash or something, but guards get distracted.
He sneaks into a truck and supposedly the inmates like
stack boxes, so they can't he can't get seen.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Of the scene in Little Orphan and orn't Annie when
she sneaks out of the orphanage. Do you know how
she sneaks out?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
No, I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
In a laundry basket. She gets all of the other
orphans to like get her in a laundry basket, and
they like piled all the laundry on top of her,
and they go out the front, and then she gets
in the laundry van.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Miss Hannigan's not happy about it.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
So truck guards to seal. The truck takes off leaves,
gets out of the grounds, and the truck pulls up
to a ball.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Really, the warden was talking about like, well, I mean,
anytime you got trucks coming in, you always have a risk.
Da da da. Turns out, did you put this in
there that this had the exact same thing it happened,
only just like.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, they hadn't had an escape in fifteen years, but
the last escape they had fifteen years prior.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Was supposedly the same way.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
So you know. Anyways, so he had stolen a pair
of tin snips and cut a hole in the top
of the truck. The truck stops for the driver to go.
He goes in and gets a cup of coffee and
bomy he's got gets.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
A cup of coffe. I think he says that a
bowling alley. I think you you got.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
To think QT and circle K. That's wasn't the thing.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Duncan's been around for a long time.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
I don't know. Anyways, Anyways, he he escapes, all right,
he had on the loose.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
You imagine the smell of that man's truck, because what
did a bowling alley in the seventies disgusting coffee and
cigarettes and shoe fungus everywhere, just permeating. And if you're like,
that's where I want to get my coffee at these
are the things I think of. Is that what the

(44:48):
inside of this man's cab smelled like? And he did
nothing wrong. I don't know who he is, but I
just imagine it doesn't smell good.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
It probably just smells like coffee.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
And foot fungus and I wearing works. No, he went
into the bowling alley. Okay, sorry, continued That wasn't.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Even like a process of mine. So anyways, he's on
the run. So it's not the murder we're looking we're
trying to solve here, it's.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
We already know he's a murderer.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Well you confessed to it. Yeah, so we're trying to
capture Steve Leslie Wilson.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
All right, where is Steve Where?

Speaker 2 (45:27):
All right?

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Steve Lilsey Wilson, Leslie Leslie Wilson.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Okay, he was captured. Okay, and I had to do
a little digging, but he was captured in April of
nineteen ninety two. Oh so it was a while.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
It's a stretch of time.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, because well this was featured in nineteen ninety but
he escaped on August third, nineteen eighty four, come to
find out. Let me give a little back.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
He was calling and taunting the guards in the world.
He would send Christmas cards to the warden and the guard.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
This guy is the band aid floating in the pool.
He is just disgusting.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
Then he would taunt the FBI that they couldn't catch him, and.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Let me just can you imagine the joy when they find.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
The So let me let me give you a little insight. Okay,
taunt a law enforcement guy that you can't that they
can't do something, and now you've become on the top
of their list, that now it's their mission, even if

(46:38):
supposedly other things were a top priority because you're poking
that bear.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
They woke bear.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah, so it actually wasn't unsolved mysteries that caught him.
He was featured on America's America Most Wanted. I came
to find out he was living in Florida.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Why do they always go to Florida?

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Suppose married or dating this woman? He saw that America's
Most Wanted was going to feature him, so he eeped
out of there.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah, that sounds about We went to England.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Okay, okay, And even at that time he was taunting
the FBI. He recorded himself doing an interview with Inside
addition and sent it to the media. He was doing
the interview with them, and he recorded himself doing the
interview on the phone and then sent it so the FBI.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
I think I would have hated this man from the
moment I met him.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
The FBI found out because obviously when he was featured
on America's Most Wanted, people called in and said, hey,
I know this guy. They went there, he was already gone,
but his wife or girlfriend was still there and she
was still being loyal to him. So what did the

(47:58):
FBI do? Staked her out and they just sat on
her and she gets on a plane and goes to
England and they followed and they follow her to a
hotel where she meets up with Steve and when they
come out, they arrested him, extradited him back.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Yah done, Steve.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
But here's the crazy park. He goes back, serves his
time and was released.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
I dug because he charmed the pearle board. That's what
this guy is.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
He is to try to help when he arcissist Doug.
To try to find out when he was released. I
could not find when it was released. I looked, I found,
I read it was.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
In a newspaper article or anything. I thought the parole
boards were a public record.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
I'm sure it is, But do you know the records
of the California Department of Correction for a Steve Wilson.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
And Well, and I've been on those websites. They look
like whoever used to program their personal MySpace page is
now doing the coding for these websites.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
I got on, Yeah, did a search, and the California
one kept telling me there was no records found.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
And You're like, I know, that's actually what I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
I wasn't sure if it was trying to find current
records if he's in prison or his release records.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
I mean I did the math. He was thirty in
nineteen seventy six, so he would be eighty years old.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
He's probably gone. Yeah, And I.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Tried to find I found multiple deaths of a Steve Wilson,
but yeah, not him. One of them was a World
War Two vet and not him. Another guy was actually
a good person who did things for the community, and
that not him. So could not find anything. So I
don't know what quite happened. But supposedly he was released,

(49:56):
but he was got So there you go.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
There you go. So a murderer and escaped an invaated
prison and was still able to make paroles somehow, somehow,
that's not so banannas. Ohkay, let me get to go
and hear on our next story. So I'm going to

(50:19):
tell you about the disappearance of Judy Himes. In my research,
this was spelled two different ways. It was spelled with
an hi and an h. Y just wanted to put
that out there, okay. Judy was twenty two, recently divorced,

(50:40):
living in Coral Gables, Florida. She worked as a medical
technician at the University of Miami Medical School. She was
known as to be smart, highly educated, pretty independent, and
in August of nineteen sixty five, so this is an

(51:00):
older one, she found out that she was pregnant. Now,
I think it's important to remind everybody that this was
the mid sixties and she was single, and that being
pregnant came with a lot of judgment and shame, and
so Judy tried really hard to keep things private. From

(51:22):
our understanding, she went in to confirm the pregnancy and
didn't even use her real name. She signed in as
b Dot Kenny and told no one about it, not
even our closest friends. I would like a little caveat here.
Everything I was able to find on this comes from
unsolved mysteries and several news articles. I don't know how

(51:46):
we connected the dots. I don't know how we found
out that she went in for this test. I don't
know how we confirmed that she was pregnant because she
didn't tell anybody, and then that she was under this.
I don't know where this timeline comes from, and I
think that's important to know.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Yeah, they just tell you all of this, but there's
no light.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Did say, there's no record of any of this record.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah, the best, the better word.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
One of her friends named Marilyn Jackson, later said that
she had absolutely no idea that Judy was pregnant. In fact,
the very last conversation was completely normal. Judy told her
that she was going to get off work early to
go do some shopping. No stress, no panic, nothing unusual.
So September fourteenth, nineteen sixty five, Judy leaves work early,

(52:37):
just like she said she was going to. She withdraws
three hundred dollars from her checking account, which, I mean,
that's a lot of money for sixty five o three.
We're probably over one thousand dollars for today's.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, it's got to be. It was I mean early
eighties and.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Eight sixty five.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Yeah, So saying in that in the mid early mid
eighties it was three times. I imagine this twenty years before. Yeah,
gotta be maybe close to two or something, at least
fifteen hundred.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
She tells people very openly that she's using this money
to buy a watch, but it is now believed that
the money was actually being used for an illegal abortion,
because abortion at the time was not only taboo, it
was also illegal, and women often would have to go

(53:29):
to people to get this operation done and performed in secret,
and with secret means no oversight and no guarantee of safety.
That afternoon, Judy goes to the office of a man
named doctor George Hodo Hadju. How do you and I

(53:53):
technically am using the word doctor loosely because he wasn't
licensed to hear in the United States. Now, this is
what I was able to find outside of Unsolved Mysteries.
He was a Hungarian immigrant who posed as a physician
supposedly in Hungary. He was a physician. Again, just that

(54:20):
I put that out there, some stuff I found for context.
But he was well known for performing illegal abortions for cash.
Someone Judy trusted must have given her the name, because
this wasn't a random happenstance. And again, this is what

(54:43):
drives me crazy about this story. All of this is
through I don't know how we're getting this information.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Unsolved Mysteries just says this stuff like it's fat.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Well, it's like they're probably us a story without any
backup information.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
And because here's the thing, in all of the story
we watch and right like the one I just told,
you're getting the daughter of the man murder, you're getting
the warden, and you're getting you even get the sheriff
who went and collected the remains and charged that man.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah, with that right this, you're getting the friend and
she says she had no idea.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
But no police know nothing, and ye, the friend didn't
even know any of this, so that whatever she's telling us,
she'd heard from other people and it's now telling us.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yeah, so you and I think when you start to
play that game of telephone, it can get very complicated
very quickly to know what is actual hard facts and
what is speculation.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
She even says she is hearing this stuff afterwards, and
she has a hard time believing that some of this
stuff is true. So the question is is was it true?
Or were people saying is this a possibility? Did this happen? Yeah,
and they're trying to connect dots because they don't know.
We all know like stories where you were like.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Well look at Amy Bradley case. All we know is
that she's missing. We don't know any direction to go in.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
And so then people are saying, well, could this have happened?
Could this have happened? I heard this, and I heard this,
and so you end up down this rabbit hole. So
That was my theory in this story where people saying, well,
this could have happened.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Well, that was my very first question that I was
confused about when they said that she went in to
confirm her pregnancy and used a false name. Okay, how
do we know that?

Speaker 2 (56:39):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Yeah, yeah, And I'm not saying that this is a
whole thing that's not true. This woman's obviously missing.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
I'm not saying that, but I.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Guess I'm just saying, how did we get to this conclusion?
Because if we focus only on this option, are we
ignoring other things? And I think that can be risky.
So three weeks later, her rental car is found all
the way in Atlanta, six hundred and fifty miles away.

(57:10):
Inside there is blood on the back seat, not a
huge amount, but enough that investigators could see the blood. Unfortunately,
the car had been sitting there for days on end
before anyone reported it, which means any evidence was contaminated
or useless by the time investigators could examine it. A
neighbor did remember seeing a man in his thirties park

(57:34):
the car, get out, take a duffel bag from the
back seat, and walk away. He was never identified. About
three months later, the doctor got arrested, not for Judy
but for impersonating a doctor, and before he be tried,
he jumped bail and disappeared, gone off the grid. Gone,

(57:54):
never to this day has been found. I looked that
up too, never captured. For years, the case basically like
freezes and some people, now, I was say, Robert Stax
is telling us, because this was in the sixties. He
is telling us this in this sort of longer format,
the kind of ebbs and flows of this, because again,

(58:16):
this case takes another weird turn. Most people assumed by
this point that Judy passed away during the procedure and
that our body was disposed of to cover up the
illegal abortions taking place. But Marilyn, her friend, didn't believe that.
She said that Judy knew too much medically to put

(58:38):
herself into that risky and dangerous of a situation, that
there might have been other options for her to explore
before going to this. Whether that's true or not, like,
we don't know. But this is hard because this woman

(58:58):
literally just finished into the void, and twenty five years
later it comes back to life in the weirdest of ways.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
None of this makes sense.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Now, in nineteen ninety, a police captain named Chuck is
commpletely unrelated narcotic seminar. Okay, so where are you? Fast forward?
It's nineteen ninety. Chuck is at this seminar in Nebraska.
He comes home, he goes back to work, normal day

(59:32):
to day stuff. Two weeks later, he gets a call
from someone claiming to be a well known radio host
in Omaha. The caller tells him that an anonymous person
shared information about the disappearance of Judy. But the thing
is this captain, Captain Chuck had never heard of this case.

(59:56):
This was not his case. He wasn't it was before
his time and he works for narcotics. So he tells
the person, Hey, I have no clue what you're talking about.
Let me do some research and I will get back
to you. Do you have a phone number? And he
says yes, and he gives them two phone numbers. Great,

(01:00:21):
so he looks up the case. It's like, Okay, I'm
not sure why I'm getting called about this, but you know,
he's decides he's going to call the guy back and
kind of find out what he knows. So he calls
the radio host and the radio host says I've never
called you or talked to you. I have no idea
what you're talking about. So now we have two men
who have no clue why they're in communication with each other.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Someone called Chuck mm hmmm, pretending to be the radio guy,
but wasn't the radio Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
And here's the best part. Whoever gave that phone call
and that gave him his number gave the radio host unlisted.
This guy was like pseudo famous in his little radio
ho he did like a syndicated across the like like
radio show. Well known man had a private, unlisted home
phone number, and that was the number given to the detective.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
So he's like, how did they have my And.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
He said like he was very cautious about who he
gave that information too, and couldn't think of anyone that
would have had it for, and then decided that that's
what they were going to use it for. Two days later,
the captain gets another phone call, this time from a
female and says, Judy is alive, she lives in Omaha,
repeats it several times over and over and over again,

(01:01:34):
and then hangs up. That's it, you guys, what if
none of this makes sense? But of course this kicks
off media attention. Articles start running, more calls come forward
claiming that they'd spend time with this doctor and hungry
and even give the police his information or a phone

(01:01:56):
number reform. But again nothing comes of it. No sightings,
no confirmation, no clothes, know nothing. Then four days later,
after the case aired on Unsolved Mysteries, the Corbal Gables
Police received an anonymous letter. So, because this was in

(01:02:16):
the thing, this is just a story being told. It's
not really like an update, because this is what Robert
Stack tells us, but this is kind of where we're
getting told this story, So this is kind of your update.
The letter said Judy died that day and then it

(01:02:38):
gives I wrote it out because there's a picture of
it on the Unsolved Mysteries website, and this is what
it said. She was given an anesthetic and had an
allergic reaction. It was immediate, and that the people in
the room tried to do something about it, but it
was fatal, and that the body was disposed of in

(01:02:59):
the oh. I don't know how to pronounce a spice.
This can be bis can see a y any, I
don't know bay, and I mean that's it was literally
four alliance. That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
So they say she died and they disposed of the body.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Yeah, that she had allergic reaction to anesthesia.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
All right, do we have any real updates?

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
I know the police believe that the letter is real
for some reason. They said it sounds like someone who
might have actually been there. They'd urge the author to
come forward, but no person ever did. The remains have
never been found, and that the doctor from Hungary has
never been located. Today, Judy would be in her eighties.

(01:03:46):
If you have any information, I guess there was some hope,
maybe that she left and started another life out of shame.
Maybe maybe we don't know, because she just disappeared. If
you have any information regarding to her disappearance, please contact
the police Department in Florida at three oh five four
four two sixteen hundred. A weird turn of events. It

(01:04:12):
was a.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Strange story in the fact of the way they told it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Well, and I have no clue how. Twenty something years later,
a random Yeah, that's it's a call from a supposed
radio host in Omahas No do what he's talking about?
And then the letter calls in.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Yeah, letter, it's just and then but why now?

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
I read some speculation that maybe, and we saw this
in the letter with the malls, the malls with the
letters left in them, that there might have been a
family member who's trying to get this back into the
spotlight again to find their lost loved one in hopes
that this would kind of stir some confusion and kind

(01:04:54):
of get carried and turn it into an open case again.
But it seemed more like it left people more confused
than it did as again, I'm going to guess that
there's still a case open on this woman, on Miss Judy.
I couldn't find any sources as to how they believed

(01:05:15):
that Timeline went, who the man was in the car,
who the father of the baby was, any confirmed sightings
of her going to this underground clinic of any way,
shape or form. I have nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
It's a lot of speculation. So okay, Ben, would you
before you get started, I'll give you a minute to
find your notes. I would just like to remind all
of our friends that we have a super fun, awesome
social media presence TikTok and Instagram. We are at UNSLF

(01:05:51):
coupled pod, and on Facebook we have a small little
Facebook discussion group where every week you can get on
there and we can talk about the episodes. I would
also like to just thank everyone who has tuned in
week after week. It truly, truly means a lot to us.
I don't think I have shared my appreciation with our

(01:06:12):
listeners in a while, and I just want to take
a lot. It really means a lot. Every time you
download this podcast, every time you recommend it to a friend,
every time you check out our social media, I see it.
I love interacting with you guys and hearing from you guys,
and sharing how the things that you do while you
listen to these stories, all of that, and I just
wanted to just take a moment, we're getting into Thanksgiving

(01:06:35):
season to really be thankful for you guys that you know,
hang out with us week after week. And Ben is
going to share one of his favorite topics with us, which.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Is lost loves Well. I'll say this one is extremely
similar to Yeah, I agree, Vietnam One family that didn't
believe their brother.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Yeah, it was very similar.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Yeah. All right, So we get introduced to Frank Joseph Bloomer.
He was born in nineteen twenty one. He was from Zegler, Illinois,
he was one of two sons, and World War two
breaks out. He's twenty years old, and guess what he does.

(01:07:26):
He enlists in the navy. They say, against his parents' wishes,
but he goes in. He goes and becomes a navy man,
and he becomes a radio technician on the USS Rowan.
It's a destroyer and it was operating in the Mediterranean Sea.

(01:07:51):
Telling the story quickly because it actually was really quick.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
It was super quick on the.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Consol mysteries like they don't give us a ton. But
on September eleventh, nineteen forty three, near Italy, a German
U boat torpedoed the Rowan and it sunk. It sank
that destroyer in less than a minute. Two hundred and
two American soldiers were killed and Frankie was reported missing

(01:08:20):
an action. So it appears that they didn't find his body.
Two d and two. The vast it was in the
Mediterranean Sea.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Oh okay, the sea is vast.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
So can you even imagine though his family, because you
got to think, like back then they were giving updates
on the war every night and day on the radio.
They heard they heard it on the radio. The Rowan
had been sunk on the radio before the military could
tell them. Soon after, the military tells him that their

(01:08:58):
son was missing an act so they hadn't recovered his body.
Unfortunately so less than a week later, though, they call
him Frankie. Frankie's mother Jane saw a newspaper photo of
three survivors from the USS Rowan and she is convinced

(01:09:22):
that the middle man in the photo is her son. Yeah,
she says, it looks a lot like her. She gets
her daughter in law, Dorothy, and they're looking at it
and they're looking at pictures of Frankie and comparing it
to the picture in the newspaper article, and they're, yeah,
it's definitely him. She even the mom takes the photo

(01:09:43):
to a local mortician who was supposedly a photo identification expert.
Now let's just think, like, this is the forties. Yeah,
I can only imagine the quality.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
Of it hasn't been that long since that. The barber
was also the dentist and the town doctors.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
So the local mort issue is supposedly a photo identification expert.
He's looking at the photos and looking at the photo
of the in the newspaper and looking at photos of Frankie.
And he even says in the photo it looks like
he's holding his arm weird. And he says, hey, did
he like break his arm when he was a kid,

(01:10:20):
and she says, yes, absolutely he did. So he says, listen,
that's definitely a positive identification. I think in the reenactment
he says that I don't know if he said it
was a positive. He thinks it is Frankie in the photo.
So of course, Jane, the mom, is convinced that her

(01:10:43):
son is possibly still alive. They continue to look for him.
She contacts the American Red Cross and they tell her, listen, like,
the only information we have is what we get from.
At that time, it was called the War Department, so
that's all we're getting and they don't have any more
information than what we don't have any more information than

(01:11:06):
what they have. So as of right now, he's missing
in action. It wasn't too long I did do my research.
Wasn't too long that the military then did classify him
as killed in action. So they continue to hold out
hope the mom does. Unfortunately, she passes away in nineteen
seventy one. But the granddaughter of Jane, so technically would

(01:11:31):
be the niece of Frankie kind of picks up this
mantle and is continuing to search for answers and thinks
that her uncle is possibly still alive. She kind of
tells stories of and it is it's kind of sad.
She tells stories of how seeing her grandmother and how
much they would still make a cake for him on

(01:11:53):
his birthday and still hold out this hope that he
would someday come home, but it never did. So it
wasn't mean anyways. You just you hear they tell more
of just the heartbreaking story of this fan and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
I'm sure she saw myies covering somebody else's lost love
and decided to write in They tell us.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
I will say that they do eventually do erecting memorial
headstone for Frankie next to his parents, but the grand
the granddaughter of Jane, the niece of Frankie, is still
looking for answers because they still think that this photo
could possibly have been him, and is it possible? So

(01:12:38):
all right, are you ready for that's kind of where
unsold mysteries?

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Okay, what's our update?

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
It was not him?

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
Okay, technically it appears picture it's not a great quality photo.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Also from what I can find. It appears that his
remains were never found, but he was his ship was
sunk and that but let me pull this up. A
man came forward after until Mysteries viewed this. He came forward.
He was Wayne Easterling, and he said, hey, I'm actually.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
That I'm that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
That guy and although he was the man on the left,
and he says the man in the middle is was
his friend Richard Hennessy and he had passed away in
nineteen seventy four. And then he even identified the third man.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Okay, so that was us.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Yeah, So they were supposedly all three positively identified. The
family did accept that, okay, and has come to you know,
understand and.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Believe that he passed away.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
That he passed away, and so it's kind of I mean,
really they do identify those three men. He's not really
much else around. He didn't come home from war, yeah,
unlike so many of our Yeah, brave young man from
that war, Yeah, didn't come home. So unfortunately, sad story,

(01:14:12):
but thankful for his service, his sacrifice, and thankful for
that family that had I'm sorry that they had to
go through that they'd lost a family member and then
even had to hold hope for many years other family
member had given that ultimate sacrifice. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Yeah, we're grateful for all of the men and women
who serve, every man that every man or woman who.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
Has ever served.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Yeah, and we get to enjoy the freedoms living here
in America that we do because of the people that
fought for our freedom, and that's not lost on us here,
and we are very grateful for that. Both Ben and
I have many family members who have served in the military,
and we know even the personals sacrifices that that puts on,

(01:15:02):
even family members who just support their loved ones who
are serving in the military. So anyone who loves a soldier,
we're grateful for you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
Okay, and there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
There you go. All right, guys, that is our recap,
and look at us. We are on time. Yay us.
That is season three, episode seventeen, and we are at
the end of our podcast where I ask Ben a
silly question. If you don't like the banter, please feel
free to exit stage right and we'll see you here

(01:15:35):
next week for the rest of our fun People who
do like banter. Ben, here is your question.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
All right, here's my answer.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Do you think that you would be more productive if
you didn't have to sleep, or more productive if you
didn't have to eat or drink. Yeah, could you get
more done if you didn't have to sleep or if
you didn't have to give your body nutrition? Which one

(01:16:05):
do you think is why.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Sleep?

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
Mm hmmm?

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
Because how much time does eating really take? Well?

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
When you were married to someone who cooks most of
your food for you, Even.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
If I had to cook, I am a simple man.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
That is true. You would live off nacho cheese and
chili cheese burritos from Taco Bell.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Eating food in a day doesn't take up six seven
hours like sleeping.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
I feel like good food, it does, no, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
But I could smoke something, but I can go do
something while it's smoking.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
Smoking as in cooking food, not like smoking meth or something.
Smoking cigarettes what you were talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Yeah, sleeping, of course it's okay. But I like sleep.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
I know that's the problem. This is a hard question
because of both of us seeks.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
If I'm willing to give it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Up, no, I'm not asking you to give it up.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
Do you think the answer is absolutely not. I'm not
willing to give up.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
But if you had to give one of them up, No,
it's got under your head.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
No, absolutely not. I like my sleep and I like
my food. Yeah, I'm really excited about dinner tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
So I know as soon as we already wrap this up,
we are grilling. We have a Mexican deli like meat
market steak, been marinated.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Steak, marinate all day, and I'm ready to throw it
on the grill.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
It's going to be delicious. Homemade tortillas, yeah, caeso, caso, salsa,
it's going to be done.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
Excited about it. Okay, I'm excited. I want to get
this done to my delicious. There you go. What about you?
Here's the thing I can actually answer this question for you.
It would be sleep. And this is why, because Sierra
doesn't eat already.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
I love food. I just forget to eat until it's
three o'clock in the afternoon and I don't feel good
and I'm cranky and I have a headache. But I
have consumed four diet Cokes by that time. Because that's
the problem is I get overwhelmed with like trying to
cook something. So I'll go to the refrigerator and I

(01:18:20):
see a crispy ice cold fridge cigarette.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Fridge cigarette.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Yeah, terrible that's the most accurate description of a diet
coke you've ever had in your life. And so I
crack a cold one open, and that bubbly goodness hits
the back of my throat and I forget that I'm hungry,
and I just think I'll sip on this and I'll
think of something else to eat in a minute, and
then I just forget. But I love food. But the

(01:18:47):
problem is, I'd have to pick sleep because I sleep
more than six hours at night. If I only get
six hours of sleep, it's a bad day for seer,
bad day. But I have It's not that I sleep
in crazy but Ben. Okay, according to Ben, if we're
comparing it to Ben's time, I'm the laziest human being ever,

(01:19:10):
because no, because Ben, even on his weekends, you guys,
wakes up by choice on his own before eight am.
That is insane.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
I'm I'm up way before eight am.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Yes, exactly. So if I have sleep until nine, which
I would say is standard sleeping in time, Ben's spend
half the day already like he's been up for two
and a half three hours by that point. So yeah,
according to you, I'm like rolling out of bed. It's
not like I'm getting out of bed at noon, but
I do it plenty of times. Decide at nine thirty

(01:19:44):
at night, I'm tired, I'm going to bed, but I
will still then sleep until seven thirty when my alarm
goes off in the morning. And if I don't have
an alarm, guys, I will not wake up on my
own before nine. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
Hey, listen, everyone's out there thing.

Speaker 4 (01:20:00):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
I wish I could sleep more, but I wish I.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Could sleep less. I wish that I could feel refreshed.
Even I wake up those mornings when I've gotten ten
hours of sleep and I am exhausted by within two hours.
I hate it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
I mean, I wake up, it's I don't know it's anyways.

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
Yeah, all right, guys, Well we are gonna go cook
and then eat delicious food and probably watch Task Masters
and laugh. And that sounds like a wonder reading. And
we hope you guys will have an amazing Tuesday. Did
you have something to say?

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
Inn Nope?

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Okay, Well, we will see you guys again here next week,
where Ben and I recap another episode of Bye

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Burden

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Confession Call: Who Killed Tracy Kirkpatrick? + Folsom Escape, Lost Sailor & Missing Judith Hyams.

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Burden

All Episodes

Confession Call: Who Killed Tracy Kirkpatrick? + Folsom Escape, Lost Sailor & Missing Judith Hyams.

Stuff You Should Know