Death in Vancouver, A UFO in Texas & A Outlaw Returns?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody. I'm Sierra and I'm Ben, and welcome back
to another episode of The Unsolved Couple. We're every week
been and I re kept one of your original gateway
drugs into true crime.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Unsolved Mysteries. I'm ready, Okay, are you ready?

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Mm hmm?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
All right, let's go hit record.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
We've been recording for a minute. Seven now. All right,
how's your week?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Love? My week's been good. How's your week?

Speaker 1 (00:42):
It's been a good week. We've had a we had
some head colds past around the house a little bit.
We're getting ready to go into an insanely busy upcoming week.
We're still not caught up on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
No, we're coming into the holiday.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
I care about that well, I love it. It'll be
a little bit less stressful after next By next Monday,
things will have kind of, at least for some of
the bigger things would have calmed down, which will be nice.
But No, I'm excited. Thanksgivings not too far away. You

(01:21):
and I actually both last night we're talking just about
we love Thanksgiving food.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I do. I'm very excited. M hm.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Do you want to share any news with our friends?

Speaker 2 (01:32):
No? I'm good.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Okay, My goodness. At some point, Ben, we'll decide to
share his exciting change of pace that he has under
taken underway. But I'll let him share that, I guess
when he's ready.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Do you have anything you'd like to share?

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I had a great weekend fun Friday. I had to
get up a little earlier than I wanted to on Friday.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
You did, mm hmm, But that's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
And I was kind of in a mood by the
middle of the afternoon because it is middle of November
and it was ninety degrees Yeah, and we were at
an outdoor activity event. Yeah, and so it was hot.
It just felt like it's November. But today's the coolest

(02:18):
day we've had. We skipped the seventies. Apparently we went
from nineties and now for the next ten days it's
like in the sixties.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
They I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
At this point, I will take anything.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
But speaking of Thanksgiving, if you guys haven't gone to
Firehouse Subs and had their Thanksgiving sub delicious hot take, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
It was okay, it wasn't amazing.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
I'm offended.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
I've had better ones. Capudos does a better job. And
then there's a little tiny deli in Salt Lake City
that does a better job.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Stop it. It was delicious. Stop what you're doing, go
get it.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Not sponsored but by our house. Hey, if you'd like
to sponsor us, actually, just at checkout just yell discount
code unsolved couple and see if they give you free
gravy with it.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
What did you think of this episode?

Speaker 1 (03:22):
It was good. Our two main stories are really intriguing
and the other two stories are throwaways. In my opinion,
both of mine were a lot.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
A lot of research. Yeah. I spent a lot of
a lot more time, a lot of time on this one.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
We get true crime Daddy in the house today.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
No, it's just going to be.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Ben has opinions already rabbit holes. And then I was annoyed,
annoyed that you were spending so much time doing it.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I was really annoyed of how much time I spent.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Okay, well, do you want me to go first? And
then you tell the history one?

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Sure, and we'll end with our We'll end with UFO.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, we'll end with.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
A UFO story. All right, take us away.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Okay, we are recapping season three, episode eighteen, But as always,
before we dive in, don't forget to follow the show.
Wherever you're listening, and if you enjoy what we're doing,
please take a moment to leave us a five star review.
It helps more people find the podcast and then allows

(04:39):
us to keep bringing you more of the mysterious cases
that you guys love. All Right, today's story that the
first one I'm going to share with you, is about
a woman named Cindy James. And then just real quick,
before we get into this one, we don't do this
very often. This story does include some discussion of violence, stocking, psychology, distress, death,

(05:06):
potential self harm, and some of the details about this
are still, to this day heavily debated, so trigger warning.
If none of those things are appealing to you, or
there's listeners in and around that you don't want to
hear some of these things, that'd be a good time
to skip forward to the next story. But my goal

(05:28):
here isn't to also diagnose or point fingers. It's just
simply walk through and what's been reported. But I'm going
to encourage everyone at the end of this to form
your own thoughts because this is a very odd and
heavy case with several possibilities.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
It's really weird.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
It's very weird, and when I started looking into it more.
There is a lot left out of unsolved mysteries, and
still a lot of theories thrown around that don't have
any evidence. So today's case is honestly one of the
more bizarre and polarizing things we've covered on Unsolved Mysteries.

(06:11):
It's a story that leaves people very divided. Was Cindy
James terrorized for seven years by an unknown stalker or
was she staging these terrifying attacks herself. So that's the
question that we're going to kind of walk through with
Unsolved Mysteries. So we'll start where they did. On June eighth,

(06:36):
nineteen eighty nine, in the quiet suburbs of Richmond, just
outside Vancouver, British Columbia, was uh shaken when a body
was discovered in the yard of an abandoned house, and
they right up from the top show us pictures of

(06:57):
even the corpse, which I thought was a little aggressive
for unsolved mysteries. The victim was a forty four woman
named Cindy James, who was working as a nurse at
the time. She had been drugged, strangled, and her hands
and feet were tightly bound behind her back, which would

(07:18):
lead most people to believe that she had been murdered,
but oddly or incredibly, the RCMP or the Royal Mountain
Police said that her death was an accident or possibly suicide.
They did not believe that murder entered the equation, and

(07:41):
that starts to stun everyone that knew Cindy personally, because
for the past seven years she had been reporting a
terrifying and escalating pattern of harassment. More than a hundred
incidents were reported to the police per Cindy. Five of
them included physical violence, and dozens more included threats, vandalism,

(08:05):
and stalking. It all started back in nineteen eighty two,
just a few months after Cindy separated from her husband,
who I found out his name was doctor Roy Makepeace.
He was a psychologist. She started receiving strange phone calls

(08:25):
and her parents are interviewed and they tell us that
it was weird phone calls. It was whispering, it was silence,
it was raspy voices, and she told her mother that
she didn't recognize the voice, but she was clearly frightened,
and her father felt that Cindy was withholding information and
that she was withholding something important. Over the next few months,

(08:49):
things escalated. Cindy reports prowlers outside her home at night.
Her porch lights were smashed in, her phone lines were cut.
Bizarre random styled notes appeared on her doorstep, all of
them like remember the old movie style ransom notes that
they are like cutout of magazines. Yeah, a dead cat

(09:09):
was left in her yard and her dog was even
attacked and nearly strangled to death.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
It makes sense, yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
This wasn't just a one time thing. This went on
for years. But oddly Cindy wouldn't give the police like
a solid name. She would tell them that she had suspicions,
and she was vague in her details. So officers began

(09:38):
to question whether these incidences were real or possibly staged.
And I think they're valid in those concerns. If you're not.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Well, that's the thing is why are you reporting it
to police but then refusing to give information.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, a valid question. I can't answer it for you
because we don't know. In Ananuary of nineteen eighty three,
Cindy's friend Agnes, stopped by the house. When she didn't
get an answer at the front door, she walked around
towards the back of the property and found Cindy crouched
outside with a nylon stocking pulled tightly around her neck.

(10:14):
Cindy said she had gone into the garage when someone
grabbed her from behind and all she saw was white sneakers.
So her friend, obviously terrified, once again, reports it to
the police, and this just raises more questions. So Cindy

(10:35):
then goes on to change her name her last name,
moved to a new house, painted her vehicle, and hired
a private investigator. She was doing everything that she could
to disappear from who was targeting her. Those all seemed
like smart moves if you're being harassed by somebody, to

(10:55):
try to shake them off your tail. I mean, she
still worked at the same place. So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
So I guess you're going to hire a private investigator,
but you're than not going to tell the police all
the details.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, And I don't know if then the investigator became
like the middle man between the police and her. I
don't know. So the private investigator did mention that he's
because he's also interviewed on unsolved mysteries. He tells us
that Cindy was hesitant, she was evasive, she was like

(11:33):
vague to the point where she agreed to take a
polygraph and she failed because she was It didn't say
that she was deceitful. It was inconclusive. I guess I
failed because it was clear that she was withholding information.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah. Cindy's mother later explained that Cindy had been threatened.
Her attacker told her that if she talked to the police,
her sister and her mother's would also be roped into
this sort of stocking and harassment. So fast forward to
January thirtieth, nineteen eighty four. Her private investigator heard some

(12:13):
strange sounds coming through a two way radio he'd given her,
so he rushes over to her home, looks through the
window and see Cindy lying unconscious on her floor. He
breaks the door down and finds a pairing knife pinned
through her hand and stabbed into the carpet, with a

(12:35):
note like attached to the knife as well. When she
was revived, she said that she remembered a man entering
her gate, being struck on the head, and feeling a
needle go into her arm. But again, no fingerprints, no suspects,

(12:57):
no physical evidence of anyone else was tied to the scene.
By this point, the police had spent, which I thought
this was insane, but I guess it's gone over for
several years. Unsolve Mysteries tells us that the Canadian police
have spent more than a million dollars of assets investigating

(13:21):
Cindy's reports.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, that's a lot.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
It's a lot of money and time and time. Yeah,
with no leads, even at one point placing her house
under twenty four hour surveillance on multiple occasions. They did this,
and when they did that happened, Nothing happened. At one
point there was fourteen officers assigned to watch her twenty

(13:47):
four to seven. During those times, zero things happened. But
almost within moments of the surveillance ending, the incidents would
start right back up again. Reporters. There's a reporter interviewed.
I don't care for the guy.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
None of the police are interviewed.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Technically, none of the police are true, and he's kind
of It's hard because I believe the victims always at first.
And I'm not going to get into my personal thoughts
on this because it's there's so much to the Unsolved
Mysteries left out. But the way that the investigator or

(14:33):
not investigator, the order reporter is talking about this is
so flippant and arrogant, and it just comes off very
callous and cold. I didn't care. I didn't frankly, I
didn't care for his attitude. So the police, at this point,

(14:55):
their kind of mindset starts shifting, which whether for good
or for fair or not, it's really hard. Once law
enforcement starts to shift their mindset towards if Cindy was
being socked and their mind shift was sift was shifting,

(15:16):
it gets very complicated to then try to get it
to ever shift back. It's hard, and I'm not in
law enforcement. I'm not an investigator to stay like neutral
the whole time. But at this point I just kept thinking,
I was watching this, I'm like Olcomb's razor would be.
The theory is is that the most likely scenario is

(15:38):
probably the truth. The police can't find anything to go on.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Well, you gotta think as an investigator, your job is
to investigate into follow the facts, follow the facts until
you close every avenue. It appears to them and from
what they're saying, they have put in a true, honest effort. Yeah,

(16:06):
and it appears that to them. They're like, listen, we're
now running out of possibilities of what this could be,
and all of that then led them to this possibility.
I'm not saying they're right.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
What I'm saying they weren't ever able to eliminate her
as a sword.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
And that's what I'm saying is that now with all
the time, the effort, the resources they have dedicated and investigated,
it appears that they thought the evidence led them to say, listen,
this isn't what it appears to be. It appears that
this is self induced. Yeah, at least that's what Unsolved

(16:47):
Mysteries are saying that they're doing. I don't know. I
didn't do any research on this. I'm only going out
for what Unsolved Mysteries.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
So yeah, and that's thinking I couldn't share obviously, all
one hundred reported incidences they weren't shared on Unsolved Mysteries.
I'm only sharing the ones with you that they did.
I found multiple other incidences in my side research. I'm
going to link all that below for everybody to do
their own research as well. In December of nineteen eighty five,

(17:19):
Cindy was found dazed and half conscious in a ditch
six miles from her home. She was wearing a man's
boot and glove neither belonged to her. She had cuts, bruises,
hYP hypothermia was like on the verge of setting in,
and once again a black nylon stocking nodded tightly around

(17:39):
her neck. And she said she had no memory of
what had happened, so her friends Agnes and Tom started
staying with her for protection. One night, they woke up
to loud noises and discovered Cindy's basement was on fire
and the phone lines had been cut. When Tom ran

(18:02):
outside for help, he claims he saw a man standing
at the curb and asked yelled at him to call
the fire department, and the man ran away. Police however,
you have to run away to call the police the
fire depart fair point. There's no cell phones. But the
police once again aren't buying this story. They said that

(18:23):
there was no disturbed fingerprints, and that the winds the
windows skilled down heading into the basement that was open
had dust and cobwebs all over it that weren't There
was no fingerprints in the dust. No, nothing had been disturbed. Okay,
so they questioned why Cindy. Oh, and that was the

(18:45):
other thing she Cindy claimed that she hadn't been home
because she was out walking her dog alone at three am.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Which doesn't make any sense. If you're being stocked and
attacked constantly, why are you going on them? Yeah, is
the question I think they're asking.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, because I'm also like, maybe three am is when
you think most people are probably asleep, and so maybe
you feel even oddly like saying.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Maybe there is a reason I don't know.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
So this is starting to whether this is self induced
or not, this is starting to take a big toll
on Cindy's mental health, and her doctors actually commit her
to a psychiatric hospital believing that she had started to
become potentially suicidal. Or therapist said that the constant disbelief

(19:39):
from police is what part broke her down. If this
is really happening and she is begging and screaming for help,
she feels like she's losing her mind. No one believes her.
You feel helpless, Yeah, and that with being doubt like
on top of that, all of these traumatic things had

(20:01):
happened to her were just too much. She spent ten
weeks before being released. After being released, it was the
first time this a long time. She told her father
that she did believe she knew who the stalker was
and that she was just trying to get proof because

(20:21):
at this point no one believed her and she needed
to hand this over to the police on a silver platter.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
So you could have told him in the beginning.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Mm hmm, yeah, I know. That's the biggest frustration with
this is to be saying this is happening to me,
but not giving enough information, but then saying I know
who's doing it, but then not carrying that. So there

(21:00):
was another attack. This one wasn't reported on in some
mysteries I found, but it happened right before her disappearance,
so I plugged it in here. This is side research said,
So Cindy was actually attacked in her carport. At one
point she was found unconscious, partially undressed, hog tied with
a nylon stocking. A duct tape was pressed over her

(21:23):
nose and mouth, and she'd actually slipped into a coma.
She did survive clearly, and from that, and I said research,
they did do like a full forensic sweep of her

(21:44):
body and they were able to remove to unidentified pubic
cares from her body. That's the evidence that they were
able to pull off of her. Yeah, So May fifth,
nineteen eighty nine, the day Cindy disappears. That same day,

(22:09):
her car is found at a shopping plaza parking lot,
groceries inside the car, a wrapped gift on the seat,
blood on the driver's door, and her wallets scattered underneath
the car. Two weeks later, her body was discovered abandoned
outside a house about a kilometer away. Her body was

(22:32):
found bound, strangled nylon stocking, hands and feet tied, but
the autopsy revealed something unexpected. Cindy had actually died from
an overdose of morphine and barbituates, and they said that
in my side research, there was like sixty something sleeping

(22:54):
pills equivalent of like sleeping pills in her stomach. Police
ruled it a suicide. Her family said that that was
impossible as there was no syringes or bottles at the scene,
and that they insisted that she couldn't have tied herself
up after injecting herself with that amount of drugs and

(23:18):
not specialists re enacted the bindings and said that it
could be done in about three minutes, but he was
an expert in night not tying, so the police used
that as their biggest theory. Is this expert's opinion on

(23:38):
that you could do notts that quickly, so not too
much later, the corner switches his ruling. Instead of it
being ruled as a death or as a suicide or murder,
he actually put it and not even as accidental. He
named it as death by an unknown event. I don't

(24:02):
think I've ever seen, have you, No, I have no idea.
So that's kind of where Unsolved Mystery leaves us. All right,
all right, here's your update. Unsolved figured.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, well, it's unsolved in the fact that it's unsolved
by the family, but it's not unsolved by the police.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Kind of. The family believes issue is murdered, but they
have nothing really more outside of that. They just don't
see how. And you guys, this woman was frail and tiny.
It was a small woman. So this is where I'm
gonna say, the more I dug into the case, the
more complicated this actually was. I can see honestly why

(24:51):
Unsolved Mysteries just kind of gave us the briefest of overviews.
Here's some things I found outside of my research. On
the nine that Cindy disappeared. She went to the bank
around nine pm. Because we don't even get a timeline
of like her last day or excuse me, eight pm
and deposited her paycheck. She had plans that night with
her friends for dinner, The Woodcockses, the ones who had

(25:13):
been coming around in staying with her. They arrived at
her home around nine pm and find both Cindy and
the car missing. Immediately alarmed because they were aware of
what was going on, they kind of did their own
like look around for her. They drove around. They were
actually the one that found her car and reported it

(25:34):
to believe it wasn't just found abandoned in that like
in the morning. I also found some different explanations on
several of the attacks mentioned on the episode. The first
attack reportedly in the stairwell of her home, and the
re enactment, it's reported that it looks like it's in

(25:54):
the backyard, but like it wasn't necessarily it was like
in the walkway between her garage and her door, which
I think were her inside of her house, which were
actually attached. When she actually reported this to police, and
I do not know why Unsolved Mysteries left this out,

(26:15):
she said that she knew the man who attacked her.
He had been in her backyard a few months earlier,
claiming he was looking for someone named Jim Bob and
had an envelope with cash in it, and then when
she said no one by that name lives here, off,
he asked her if she would be willing to exchange

(26:38):
sex for the money he had in his hand.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Okay, so doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
My point exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
But here's my question. She disappeared for two weeks? Is
that what you said?

Speaker 1 (26:56):
This is I'm recapping. I'm giving you the background information
on the first incident.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
I know. I'm asking she disappeared and then her boy
shut up two weeks later. M hmmm, how long has
she been? How long has she been real dead? When
she was?

Speaker 1 (27:11):
They never released that information because that was actually one
of the things that I tried to figure out as well,
because I did link a news article that went into
great description, including like smells and what a body looked like.
According to that, what I read in that news article,
which I don't think would fly today, the body had

(27:33):
been there for a long time. Okay, So, but that's
again just based on the description of the guy that
wrote the article, who was very aggressive with his words.
It was pretty hard to read. Okay. So the second
incident inside her home, which was the one with the

(27:59):
knife through her hand. Yeah. When she told the police
that that happened, she said that she was grabbed from behind. No,
she's sorry, excuse me. It began when she noticed a
man entering once again through the back gate of her home,
entered into her house, struck her on the back of

(28:20):
the head, and injected her with something. And then at
one point she heard up to three different voices inside
her home that there were two people in the kitchen
and one person that held her down and injected her.
So again, okay, okay. Then there was an attack that

(28:42):
unsolved mysteries. Didn't share, but I thought it was important.
She claims that she was attacked while she was at
a park walking her dog. There was a couple in
a van that pulled over and asked her for directions,
then grabbed her by her neck and pulled her into
the vehicle. Once inside, she reported three additional people inside

(29:03):
the van holding her down and injecting her right tight
while wrapping a tight stalking around her neck. This incident,
she was able to escape from and run to a
neighboring house near the park, but.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Wouldn't she be able to say it's the same person,
And if it's not, why are there so many people
in the world that are stalking and attacking this lady
over years?

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yep. So, then the other incident that overaps with unseil mystery,
when she was found in the ditch, she actually left
for work on her lunch break and never returned that day.
Her car was found nearby with the keys tossed underneath
the vehicle. She was discovered by a biker or someone
like not a motorcycle but like a pedal bike, suffering

(29:56):
from hypothermia, slurred speech once at once she was at
the hospital, she did tell doctors that she had taken diazepan,
which is a benzo for anxiety and depression, earlier, that
she had taken a couple of diazepan earlier in the day,
which diazepan, if overdosed, can cause like memory loss in

(30:20):
all of these other things. So those are the things
that I found about the attacks. What also was not
mentioned on Unself Mysteries is that the house fire was
actually the second time that that had happened to her,
the first house she lived in while she was only

(30:42):
separated from her husband once again in the basement, a
fire was started and it was ruled to be arson.
Had six different starting points and believed that six different
starting points within the bathroom of the basement, someone had
used toilet paper and sort of ignition source to start

(31:04):
a fire. The police believed that she had done it herself,
but didn't have enough evidence to charge her with arson. Okay,
once the divorce was finalized, the second house was set
on fire, she told the police at least the first incidence,

(31:27):
that she did believe that her ex husband was responsible
for some of this behavior. And here's where things get
even more messy, complicated and confusing. It's hard to wrap
this up for me, like, because the truth is every

(31:48):
direction I look. In this case, there is red flags,
red herrings, missing pieces, inaccurate information. And to be completely
honest with all of you guys, this is one of
the few cases that, after going through everything, I don't
know how to feel about this. My heart truly breaks

(32:09):
for this woman. She survived. There was of it. There was.
On an inquest found that her husband had been physically
abusive during the time of their marriage. She clearly struggled
with some major mental health issues, and she lived this life.
She lived for years in fear, whether legitimate fear or not.

(32:35):
She seemed to think something was happening, and could she
have staged some of these incidences. Yeah, I can see
how that theory has been put forward, and I can
see how police decided that's where they needed to go
for that. Could she have genuinely been targeted and disbelieved

(32:57):
at every turn? Also possible Like this, I don't have
an answer for anybody on this, Like there is no
I feel like.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
It's yea.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
And that thing. It's hard you can look at I
read several articles that are very clearly like that Cindy
was undiagnosed with Munchausen, so she was deliberately self harming
and doing all these things to her for Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
That's gonna obviously someone's going to say that to explain
why she would have done that to herself.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
And then there are several podcasts and deep dives that
have way more information that show that there was evidence
that possibly her ex husband, who was a psychiatrist, knew
how to sort of manipulate her already already fragile mental
health and might have actually coerced this behavior or encouraged

(33:51):
this behavior. Leading to like this mental sort of torture
with his knowledge that he had again. Yeah, so instead
of trying for me to like wrap this up on
a pretty bow, I'm going to just link a handful
of sources in the notes below, articles deep dives, other
podcasts with tons of information, and allow all of our

(34:13):
listeners to go out there and look for additional details
and find your own do your own dive, and then
let me know what you guys think. I'd love to
hear back when people think, really, what happened to Cindy James.
I feel terrible for her.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, I mean it's a tragedy, but who knows. Yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
It's a very baffling.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
I'm asking questions. I'm in the same I have zero
opinions one hundred percent. I'm not saying one way or
the other because one I didn't do the research, I
didn't dive deep into this. I have a lot of questions.
There's a lot of things that don't make sense, but
that doesn't mean that it's one way or the other. Yeah,
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
So, yeah, when I heard.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
That way, it's a tragedy because yeah, she's dead, and
that sucks.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
It died in a brutal, horrible way.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
So yeah, and that's unfortunate that there aren't answers.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah. So okay, now on that sad story do you
have Do you have one you want to tell us?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
All right, I got another history one, but I do
love history stuff, but this one, this is getting a
little old. So we got the story of Butch Cassidy
and the Sundance Kid. Do you know much about Butcher
in the Sunday you guys?

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Straight up, I'm going to tell you this. I am
just learning this week while watching this. I have always
heard it as Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kids, and
I thought this was like a gang of people that
called themselves the Sundance Kids. I thought it was like
Butch Cassidy was like Peter Pan and the Sundance Kids

(36:02):
were the lost boys. Like Butch Cassidy was like the leader,
and the Sundance Kids was this gang of like maybe
younger cowboys that were following him around. And he was like,
I literally only just learned that this is two people,
and the Sundance Kid is one person and Butch Cassidy

(36:24):
is one person. But yeah, I always thought it as
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kids. No, it's not, which
would be a great name for a band.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
No, the same thing.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
So that's all I know about him when it comes.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
To this stuff. I'm going back to what I have
said before. There's that podcast that I listened to and
I had actually it was actually it was springtime when
I was listening to this because me and my son
were listening to it while we were waiting our daughter's

(37:01):
ballet recital and him, we're listening to parts of this.
So I have listened to this part about but Castiing
and Sundance Kid. But we're not going to get into
that history a little again in a little bit. They
were obviously they were outlaws. They ran the gang known
as the Wild Bunch.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
So there was a gang. Yeah, so it was Butch Cassidy, Comma,
Sundance Kid and multiple others and what was the name
of the gang They called themselves the Wild Bunch, Wow Buch,
multiple others.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Part of it doesn't matter, that's not part of the story.
So but Cassidy and history as we know, but Cassidy
and the Sundance Kid who died in a shootout in
Bolivia in nineteen oh eight Bolivia, Bolivia, South America. So

(38:02):
we get Rabbish Stack telling us that history as we
know it might not be what we know that not
too long after they supposedly died in a shootout, there
was a man by the name of William Phillips who

(38:22):
just shows up and spoke inne Washington, and in nineteen
ten starts a machine shop and becomes very successful. But
according to historians, we get a historian, and actually not historians,
James Dylandry. He's a writer. Of course, all these stories

(38:43):
are brought to us by writers who wrote books. He
tells us that there's zero records of William Phillips even
existing before nineteen oh eight. The only record of William
Phillips was a marriage certificate from May fourteenth to nineteen
oh eight. So supposedly William Phillips just he shows up,

(39:07):
starts this machine shop, and then stories in the nineteen
twenties start coming out that William Phillips was Butch Cassidy.
So is it possible, William Stack tells us, And so
let me just you know, I'll get to that later.

(39:31):
I'll get to that later, all right, So how is
this possible? Is what Robert Stack tells us, So, when Butch,
Cassidy and the sunnis K were killed, they in Bolivia
in a shootout. They were supposedly identified by the man
named Percy Siebert, and he supposedly worked with the outlaws

(39:57):
at a mine in Bolivia, and he's the one that
identified them at the time when after they were killed. Okay,
so we get the writer Larry Pointer, and he is
a key figure.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
He says, I'm going to point something out to.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
You, and I wrote down his quote. Okay, this is
where this rumor starts.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Can you believe you didn't laugh at my joke. I
didn't hear your joke that he was going to point
something out to us.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, there you go, job, all right. Larry Pointer says this.
He says, I believe that Percy. So Percy was a
man that identified them as the dead people in the shootout, says,
I believe that Percy told the story of Butch and

(40:50):
the Sundance Kid's death in Bolivia to pay back what
he felt was a debt of loyalty and friendship to
allow these outlaws to begin a life under amnesty without
a past. So this theory is started from a writer

(41:12):
who believes this guy, out of loyalty to them, misidentified
them intentionally. But he proved. He gives zero proof, just like.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
It would be a good thing for he.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Just makes this assumption. And because from this assumption, we
can concoct this massive story that they survived the shootout
and they came back to the US. But we have
proof that this might be possible. So he's convinced. Pointer
is convinced that William Phillips is Butcher Gassidy. So supposedly

(41:55):
here's the proof we have. Okay, Phillips, I guess he
starts this machine shop and Spokane and decides, you know what,
I don't want to stay here and run my successful
machine shop. I want to go camping and live out
in Wyoming, just out in.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
The desert Army. It's not the desert there, it's the mountains. Yeah,
Wyoming's no joke in the wintertime.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yeah. So he Phillips goes to Wyoming in nineteen thirty three,
and then we get that other writer, James Dolantry, and
he says, he says, listen, I talked to a guy
who went with Phillips out there, and he told stories

(42:43):
and they met up with a bunch of old timers
and bunch of guys, and they all swore that Phillips
was Butch Cassidy, and they all knew but Cassidy, so
they all told stories. And because these old timers told stories,
it has to be true, right, Phillips is just Butch Cassidy.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Yeah, tall tails are always real.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
We do get one guy, Dan Buck, who is he's
like like a historian writer. He's like, nah, I don't
believe this. Yeah, I don't believe that William Phillips was
but Casidy. But in Wyoming, while he's out there just
camping for some reason for a long time, he meets

(43:28):
up with a lady named Mary Boyd's Boyd Rhodes. And
in nineteen thirty four, she Mary goes with her granddaughter,
i Own Manning, who's sixteen at the time, and they
supposedly ride horseback out to this campsite where William Phillips

(43:50):
is staying. And this granddaughter tells the story that her
grandmother got off her horse and they embraced and they
were like, oh my god, it's so good to see you.
They knew each other, and that she'd called him Leroy
George Parker, which is Butch Cassidy's original name, legal name

(44:15):
or yeah so, and that her grandmother admitted to her
that she knew him as George Parker and they were
childhood sweethearts. And supposedly, in nineteen thirty seven Phillips dies,
but before he dies, he sends her grandmother Mary a ring,

(44:38):
and in the ring it says George C. And Mary R.
So it's all the proof you need, right yep? All right?
What else proof do we have? Film is supposedly Phillips
wrote a manuscript entitled A Bandits and Invincible, A Bandit Invincible,

(45:07):
the Story of Butch Cassidy, And according to these historians
Pointer and all that it had such details that only
Butch Cassidy would know, even though no one verifies that
the details weren't going to say.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
They said that, and I was like, but how do
we know that these things that he's saying are actually fact?

Speaker 2 (45:25):
He could have just made it up, but it sounds
so good. They say it had such detail it had
to be Butch Cassidy, and that supposedly Phillips had a revolver,
and on the revolver it had Butch Cassidy's like stamp,
which was like a double e that looks like a
box with a double e, and that was his brand,

(45:48):
which technically he had. I did see that he had
that brand, that he would brand his cattle. He did
try at one point to be like a a rancher
in Wyoming in that Okay. That was his brand supposedly,
and Phillips had a revolver with that on it. Also.
They took five letters, four of them which were known

(46:10):
to be written by Butch Cassidy, one of them to
be written by Phillips. And they asked a lady by
the name of Sheila Lowe to look at them, who
was a handwriting expert, and she compared them and says,
one hundred percent they are the same person wrote it.
They are identical. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Then they those pictures and I don't see the correlation,
did you No?

Speaker 2 (46:36):
No? But she believes it. And then they show pictures
because I will say, Butch, Cassie and Sony's kid are
ones that we do have true pictures of. There's the
famous picture of them in Dallas. There's five of them
in like nineteen oh one, and they got a picture
taken and there's multiple other pictures of Butch Cassie and

(46:58):
then they show a picture of William Phillips Butch Cassidy,
and supposedly they look familiar. They do not. But Cassidy
has a very square jaw. Billips does not have the
tet I mean it is extremely defined square jaw. But
again it's extremely early pictures. So how you can compare pictures? Yeah,

(47:22):
I don't know. So we get pointer back the writer
and he says, I wrote this down. He believes without
a doubt that William Phillips is Butch Cassidy, that he
survived the shootout and returned to the US and returned

(47:44):
to Wyoming, which was their old stomping ground of where
they robbed and did that stuff and lived out his
days till he died in nineteen thirty seven. So there
you go.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
What do you think here?

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Are you ready for your update?

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Oh? Yeah, update that's where Okay?

Speaker 2 (48:07):
First off, before I give an update, this is what
irritates me. I know we have now supposedly Butcher casting
in the Sun Dance Kid are still alive, according to
Unsolved Mysteries and History Billy the Kid. I've also read
rumors that supposedly people don't think Jesse James died. Okay, also,

(48:31):
what was the Nazi one that they didn't he.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Oh yeah, like his right hand man.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Guy, well you think history is wrong?

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Well and I'm well, there's a whole hitler thing about
And that wasn't on Unsolve Mysteries. But that was a
terrible documentary that within seconds was like, how did this
make the History Channel?

Speaker 2 (48:49):
It's just we can oh, I mean, it's just we
continue to take these figures and these stories and history
and then we say and some writer comes forth and says,
I don't think this happened. This is why, even though
I have no evidence. So all right, I did do
some reason. Okay, technically we cannot proof. So in nineteen

(49:13):
ninety one, Dan Buck, who was the guy who was
the doubter in the first place, did go to Bolivia.
They tried to find the spot of where they think
Butch Cassidy and the Sun Dance Kid were buried. They
did find remains, they matched them with They tried to
match it with DNA with family. Mind you, it is
the early nineties. Yeah, and there was not positive identification.

(49:37):
That doesn't mean that they didn't die. It just means
that technically we don't know exactly where they were buried.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
Yeah, it just means whoever they dug up was them.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Yeah right, mister Pointer, the writer now does not believe
that William Phillips was.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
He was for sure about it, he said, without a doubt, without.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
At least give him that that he's willing to acknowledge.
The Morse researches come out in about twenty twelve. It
was found that a man by the name of William
Wilcox served in prison at the same exact time as
Butch Cassidy, and if you look at the mugshot of
him at that time, it is much more familiar with

(50:23):
William Phillips. Okay, he actually now believes that that guy
just assumed the identity. He didn't go out for Yeah
know him. It's possible they ran together in their gang
for a little bit. And he doesn't. But but he
still does believe that Butch Gassaidy lived and came back
to the US. He just doesn't believe. There's also many

(50:46):
stories of family members of Butch Gassady that has said
he returned, that he was buried in a cabin. Here.
The legend goes on and on, and there's endless amounts
you could go but technically we will never know. I
don't think it's unsolved. It's solved. They died in a

(51:08):
shootout in Bolivia, got it. They went there. It was
a fact that they went. They first went to Argentina.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, rob but he did him a solid.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Then they had to move. They moved around. They had
robbed a payroll and that's why they ended up getting
cornered there and getting in a shootout. Got it. So
just accept like I understand that history might we might
not be accurate every time, but I don't understand this

(51:42):
need to completely rewrite history hundreds of years later and
then we just disprove everything people said at the time.
Who would know better than us?

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, I don't. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Then I don't know. I wasn't there, but people that
were there. That's the story we're telling. And now, because
I live one hundred years later, some idiot decides I
don't want to believe that because I talk to some
guy who talked to some guy, and I'm going to
believe this stupid tale instead of actually the facts written

(52:22):
one hundred years ago.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
I think people like to think that they are original
in their ideas or not.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
I know are original, So stop.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yeah, all right, that's it. You guys got been fired up. Yeah,
I know, I've gone every time. Yeah, if you're going
to rewrite history, you have to bring solid facts to
the table in order to do so.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
I what irritated me the most about this is that
this guy is the one that circulates this story, and
it was all because he just assumed that the guy
that I did him didn't he didn't.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
He He made a really big assumption.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Assumption for no reason, with no evidence, and then from
that assumption, he made up this massive.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Tank just because he thought it would be a cool story.
I see. You want to write a story like that,
write it, but don't change history.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
Yeah, I mean, but sure it would be crazy if
bus Cassidy did live and came back to the States.
But you actually got to prove it, not just come
up with an assumption.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Right up. Okay, so I've got a lost love story.
We're going to blow through this because it's pretty quick. Okay,
So once again we hear a sad story, and these
stories always break my heart. But Althena is searching for
her siblings, Richard, Mary and Noreen. Their parents, who married

(54:03):
as teenagers, were seldom around in this household. This is
why I know so. At the time, Althena is five
years old and is in charge of her siblings five
at five. At the time, her brother was four, Marty
was three, and Noreen was only two years old. She

(54:24):
remembers on multiple occasions getting them up out of bed,
making them chocolate, milk and a single piece of toast.
When their parents separated in nineteen sixty, Children's Services took
them in and placed them into the foster care system.
So in July of nineteen sixty Athena and her younger
siblings are actually all able to stay together and placed

(54:45):
in the care of foster parents Frank and Mary and Wiley.
For the first time, these kids had stable home. They
had adults who cared for them, and life with the
Wileys was simple, safe. They lived on a big farm,
they did family chores together, they ran around and just
seemed to really start feeling safe and more thriving. But

(55:09):
December of nineteen sixty two, the state made a decision
that would unravel that entire safety net that had started
to form. The children were returned to their father's custody.
He had sought their custody back. He was granted it.
The foster system is very big about the biggest goals
to always get children back with either the parents or

(55:30):
some biological member of the family immediately neglect starts to return. Althena,
a child herself, was once again put in the position
of raising her younger siblings and the father was absent
from the home. Neighbors eventually stepped in and called the
police because they never saw adults in or around the home,

(55:53):
but by this time the kids were actually separated and
placed into different foster houses, and instead of finding safe
landings like the previous home that they had been in,
Althena ends up in two abusive homes over the next
four years. She's finally returned to Frank and Marianne, who
are actually interviewed on unsolved Histories, and loves them, but

(56:17):
was angry and traumatized and confused and basically just wanted
some family member to love her. So she gets this
idea that her grandmother lived in Sand Springs, Oklahoma, but
didn't have any address. So she saves up her money
and runs away from the wily home and books a

(56:39):
like three hundred mile or something greyhound bus six hundreds
to Oklahoma and all she had was one memory of
what the house looked like. So she knocks on a
local church's door and a priest this is this girl
is so lucky she didn't get to some the wrong

(57:00):
person's car, because the story could be a very different
one that we are sharing. He helps her, drives her around,
shows her all different kinds of neighborhoods, tries to find
the house that she described and she's trying to remember,
and spends all day going door to door to door
looking for this grandmother. They're never able to find the
right house, so we'orth nowhere else to go. The priest

(57:24):
does the right thing and takes her to the police
station and she's been identified as a runaway and is
sent back to her home state, but not back into
the home of the Wileys. Instead, she was placed back
into the foster care system, and for reasons that are
unclear to not only Althena but also to the Wileys,

(57:47):
they wouldn't allow her to come back to their home.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
That's weird, I know.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Years Lady Althena did eventually locate her birth parents and
reunite with them, but was unable to find her siblings.
And that's kind of where until mysteries leaves us. She's
looking for her younger siblings, want to know what happened
to them. She hasn't seen them since they were children,
and they had experienced terrible things together. Update update solved

(58:18):
thanks to viewers' tips. Athena was reunited fairly quickly with
all of her siblings.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
But.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
The facts behind the reunion were kept secret from the broadcast,
and the reunion was not permitted to be filmed. The
emotional strain and emotional pain surrounding these siblings, they did
not feel that they wanted to have this showcase when
they reunited.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Yeah. I mean, clearly those kids that are tough.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
Yeah. I tried to look up even to see today.
If first off, Althina Smith is a pretty common name,
she's done a good job if she has, because she
looks like she'd gotten married to somebodys she changed her
last name. I look of that current last name to
see if there was even any social media presence. There's
no Reddit thread, there's no social media, there's no nothing.

(59:07):
And so whoever this family was, it seems as if
decided to remain pretty innocuous and off the grid. And
I wish them all well, I hope every one of
them was able to.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Yeah, I hope every one of them came out better than.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Found solid ground and were able to kind of yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
So all right, all right, oh are you ready for UFO? Stilly,
It's not.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
It's not okay, are you ready for this?

Speaker 1 (59:37):
I'm ready?

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Okay, all right sorry. December twenty nine, nineteen eighty we're
gonna get introduced to three individuals, Betty Cash, Vicky Landrum,
and Vicky's grandson, Kolby Landrum. Okay. They are driving along

(01:00:01):
State Route fourteen eighty five near Dayton, Texas, not too
far outside of Houston. Okay. As they're driving along, and
mind you, Colby's seven years old. Okay, they see a
light in this guy, what's that? Oh, I don't know
what is it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
They didn't move. They didn't just see a regular light.
This was extreme light. Not yet okay, sorry, I'm jumping ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Yeah, come on, they see this light. Oh man. They
keep driving and this light it keeps getting closer and closer.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I'm gonna take a side quest here real quick and
take a pain bill, because you guys, I'm forty and
I hurt my back. I can barely move and sitting
in this chair for an hour is killing me. And
I've been waiting till I'm done with my stories because
Sierra on pain medication gets wild, shouldn't be doing a podcast.
So Ben tells the story. I will be right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Back, okay, all right. So they notice this light and
it gets closer and closer, and then all of a sudden,
it's right above them and it's right there in front
by the road. So they stop. They have to what
is going on? What are you laughing at? Yeah, it's ridiculous.

(01:01:28):
So they stop there on this road there's this massive
thing and they say, this diamond shape aircraft comes down
and from the bottom of it it is blowing massive
flames from this diamond shaped craft. Okay, and it's it

(01:01:51):
is extreme heat coming out of this thing, to the
point where what does Betty decide to do? Get out
of her car because it seems like a really good
idea be that person. So she gets out and she's
looking and she's telling us that it is so intense

(01:02:12):
it's crazy. So she stands there for a while because
that makes.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Sense, they said. They slam on their brakes and their
hand in print was imprinted on their like rubber dashboards. Sorry,
I'm back.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Yeah, I know this would be.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Terrifying, Ben, if you and I were in the middle
of nowhere Arizona and we saw that. You can't say
that we wouldn't get out of the car and try
to figure out what in the actual f is happening.
Things that are supposed to not be there are there,
and you can see them with your own eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Anyway, So this thing. So then Betty decides, Okay, I've
seen it enough outside of my car. I'm going to
get back in my car. And she says it was
so hot that she couldn't even touch the handle of
her car. Yeah, that's terrifying, But somehow their car is
just fine. It keeps running even though it doesn't. According

(01:03:09):
to one of her stories, do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
You not believe this story? You're letting your biases show.
You're supposed to be recapping the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I have my doubts.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Shut the front door, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Anyways, So she touches, can't touch the handle, and it
like then lifts off. Moments later, helicopters come and they
say a bunch of them. According to Vicky, she counts
twenty two to twenty three helicopters and not a bought
a helicopters, not just regular helicopters like double she says,

(01:03:46):
the double propeller ones, which they later identify as Chinook helicopters,
which are massive.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
I know, we saw one in the sky the other day.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
So supposedly twenty three of these or more up. Okay,
so weird. They got spotlights all that stuff, and then
they drive go home. Okay. At one am, they say,
Colby wakes up. He is sick. He's complaining of a fever.

(01:04:17):
He's burning up. Vicky says, she goes in, she's checking
on him. He's burning up, he's dying of thirst. He
his skin is red and blistery. And then Vicky becomes
sick too. The next day, she's not feeling well. She
has like a sunburned type of rash on her. They
can go and check on Betty who Betty was the

(01:04:38):
one that got out of the car, and she's extremely sick.
She's losing hair and she has like blisters all over
her body, is dying of thirst, very dehydrated, just as
craving water and so, and she has a really high fever.
So they don't go to the doctor right away, but

(01:05:01):
they wait about four days, she's not getting better. They
take Betty in and she's admitted to the hospital and
is in the hospital for supposedly a month, and the
hospital says that they believe that she was what exposed

(01:05:22):
to radiation. She has radiation sickness in that so she
loses a bunch of her hair and she has.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
Her symptoms of radiation poison.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Absolutely supposedly has skin like blisters, scars from blisters on
her skin and all of that and that. So she
gets out and starts to get better. So they contact
a man by the name of John Shustler who is

(01:05:54):
a UFO investigator. He works for the Mutual UFO network.
He's a deputy director. He comes out and he sounds
super super important. He comes out, he does an investigation.
They show him the exact spot of where it happened,
and he says, there's like this burn mark on the

(01:06:16):
road yep. But then supposedly a couple of weeks later,
some unmarked vehicles show up and tear up the road
and put a new road there, according to him, and
he talked to a bunch of people in the area
and they saw that UFO diamond shaped thing in the

(01:06:41):
sky too, and the helicopters. They even interview a police
officer who was off duty. He was with his wife,
he was driving in the area and he said that
that night he did see a bunch of helicopters. Saw
he saw a helicopter, He heard it. There was a
spotlight on him, and then it flies off in the

(01:07:01):
directions of what he thinks would have been the direction
of where Vicky and all of them are at. So
they've now suffered for months. As I said, this is
nineteen Right at the end of nineteen eighty, they start
writing to their senators and different people in the government say, hey,

(01:07:22):
what happened, And so the one of them gets them
in touch with Bergstrom air Force Base and they go
in and do an interview with Bersham. They tell the
air force base what had happened, what they saw, and
even they say like and they show up with like

(01:07:43):
an overnight bag because they think they're going to go
to the air force base and the air force base
is going to treat him. Because even months later, they
say they're still suffering from yeah, symptoms.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Of radiation poisoning of this stuff, and they want help.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
And they say even when they walk in there's a map,
and there's a pin on the map of exactly where
this thing had happened. Okay, so they think, oh, they
already know, they know what's going on. So they get
interviewed and in the reenactment you notice that they're like, well,
we have no evidence that this ever happened, and what

(01:08:19):
we can't do anything for you. I don't know what
you expect from us. Yeah, and they get all mad, like,
you're supposed to help us, You're supposed to give us
medical treatment. I was like, well, I don't know what
to tell you. And so they supposedly submit a claim
and the government tells them a couple of weeks later, denied, denied.
So then they in nineteen eighty two, they filed a

(01:08:43):
lawsuit against the federal government, but that lawsuit was dismissed.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
By a federal judge federal.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Judge due to lack of evidence. So they are all
still complaining years later that they.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Are these women clearly have radiation poisoning.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
They are still complaining of lingering health concerns and problems
and this Betty was uh supposedly diagnosed with multiple forms
of cancer, yeah and that, and so they just want
the truth. They want their.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Government watching this, I was getting fired up.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Admit and acknowledge what had happened, and to and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
To do the right thing. It's not that hard people.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
So okay, all right, that's where I saw mysteries.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
All right, I'm interesting of it because I was ticked
off watching this. I was so why had two thoughts.
First off, the shape and behavior and pattern of this
kind of reminded me of the other UFO story that
we had where it crashed landed and they like showed
up and everyone actually all weird, and they was like,
now they just see here, move along. Remember, but they

(01:09:55):
made no one came into I guess those firefighter guys
with the mustache came into close contact with None of
them ever said anything about radiation poisoning. No, no, okay,
update ben date.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
So I've read multiple things. There's actually been a lot
of investigations of the sensual in the UFO community. There's
a lot of people that do not believe the story.
So John Susser's ler, there is reports he's the one

(01:10:31):
from the mutual UFO network that did the investigation. He
supposedly has their medical records and will not show a soul.
These medical records. Supposedly, he says that he went to
the space. The Texas Department of Health ran an investigation.

(01:10:51):
When they came to him and said, okay, show us
where this happened. He couldn't. He's like, actually, we don't
know where it is. So that's kind of been debunked. Okay.
There was no burning of the trees, like nothing. There's
a lot of there is a lot of inconsistencies.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
I also found and for two hours, I found the
entire transcript of their interview at the air Force base.
It has been released, really and I read the entire thing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Is that what you did while I was taking an
app YEP, what.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
They portray in Unsolved Mysteries is not correct.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Oh, I'm not surprised anymore. I'm like, so the air
Pace uncover one of this. I'm slightly disappointed with Unsolved Mystery.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
This was receptive. They listened when they asked, like what
so Vicky and Colby never went to a doctor. The
only doctor Vicky ever went to was an eye doctor.
And she says, well, I believe he's a good doctor.
I would trust anything. He says, never went to a doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
They never spent Betty. Betty, did she spend a month
in the hospital?

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
She says, she spent several weeks in the hospital. No
medical records. I've ever been seen of that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Why wouldn't you take your medical records with you to
the Air Force base?

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
And what is interesting is when they ask, so what
reproc like, what has happened? What did you suffer from this?
She says that kind of like on the side, but
then goes into other things. They do say like I've
had diarrhea, I've had sickness, I've lost hair. She does
say that she's had all these symptoms. And I'm not
saying that that is not true. I have no idea,

(01:12:40):
but it is very interesting that she doesn't hammer that home.
And then Vicki's like, well, they ask who did you call,
Like did you call the local authorities? No, they never
called the police. The only person they ever called was
at John System in the UFO people. They never called

(01:13:00):
authorities of what happened and reported it. The only people
is they call him and then months later then they
contact these and then at the end, this is the
most interesting, the Air Force says, Okay, well what can
we what would you like from us? And all they

(01:13:21):
say is, well, we'd just like to know what happened.
They didn't ask.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
They never asked for like their medical bills to be
covered or anything. So what was the lawsuit?

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
Then towards the end, they one of them says, well,
what about all of our medical stuff? Like, well, what
did you want? Like what are you looking for? Well,
we're trying to find answers of what happened, and we
want answers of what we saw that night. And they're
like well, and they Air Force says, listen, we actually

(01:13:55):
investigated this stuff up until nineteen sixty nine. We don't
investigate this stuff anymore. NASA and outside agencies do. If
you would like to contact them, he goes, and they
premu say it. The only reason this has happen is
because the Senator contacted us and told us to have
you come in. We are more than happy to interview

(01:14:16):
you and take down And he says, I will send
this up to chain of command, I will send this
to Washington.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
I guess I just thought after this watching this, within
minutes we realized that this wasn't a UFO, that this
might have been some sort of weaponry testing that went awry.
There's no evidence of that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
And here then it got weird at the end because
Vicky or Betty claim that they went to something and
saw Shina helicopter and talked to a pilot who was
of the Texas National Guard and said, hey, we saw
the helicopter and he's like, yeah, we got called out

(01:14:54):
for something like that. He was like, oh, you did
was it this night? And he's like yeah, And they
say so, and this is going to get confusing, but
there is a point. So the military guys like, oh,
so the national you saw National Guard helicopters. They're like no,

(01:15:14):
they say in their interview, we saw the helicopters and
on the helicopters it said United States Air Force And
they go, so was it the National Guard or was
it the military? I'm like uh, And they couldn't quite
answer the question. Here's my other question.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
For me, the lay person National Guard. They ask to me,
that seems all the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
They said, so, what was the insignia on there? Because
the National Guard have an insignia of the Texas State. Okay,
did you see that? No, we didn't see that. We
saw the United States Air like okay, and I understand
that that might not be the nail often or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
My question is how did you see the writing on
a helicopter at night with spotlights?

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
Yeah? Because if you are being spotlight you're blind.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
And if you've ever coming from someone who has worked
with helicopters a lot, trying to read something off the
side of a helicopter not easy, and trying to read
it in the dark. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
Now I think these people were sick. Supposedly now supposely
wasn't one.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Of the doctors interviewed on He was her.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Doctor from nineteen eighty five on. He didn't oh later,
and he does say he believes that she was exposed
to radiation. Betty died in nineteen ninety eight. Vicki died
in two thousand and seven. Kolby's supposedly still a life. They've,
like I said, they've done a lot. If you want

(01:17:04):
to dive in deep into this, there's a lot of
stories and documentaries. And here's the thing I'm not saying it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
I got a completely different vibe from that. I guess
I was under the impression watching that that to me
at first, it was like, holy crud, this is like
a major UFO story. I can't believe I've not heard
this before. And then with the sickness, I was like, oh,
this is radiation poisoning. They must have because this was
what at the very end of the Cold War sort

(01:17:33):
of thing, or.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
Isn't even the Cold War didn't until the end of
the eighties.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Yeah, So I was like, maybe there was some testing
and some sort of weapon device went off track and
the military is trying to cover it up because they
don't want people to know that they were test. That
to me seems way more plausible that the military is like, oh,
nothing to see here and messing around with radiation and

(01:17:57):
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Alas said, I, I don't know. Yeah, there's a lot
out there. There's a lot out there on this.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
We're for two old ladies to make up an insane story.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Personally, if you ask my opinion, personally, I do think
they were probably exposed to something and it probably was
some government thing and they got sick and unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
I mean we know that, Yeah, the government is not
the Yeah, I'm going to bet against some nine times
out of ten.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
The UFO.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
No, No, I don't think it was a UFO either.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
I think it was something. I just unfortunately, now this
story has it's gone so many I thought you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Rode a good point the car running, because radiation shouldn't
have that disrupted the engine. So that was my other
thing in this, because there's a movie that I watched
that made me have reoccurring nightmares. But I guess there
was a nuclear bomb that went off that people's like
watches also stopt and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
In the interview in the Air Force base, she says
the car died, it shut off, oh, and that the
dash was melting, and so then they're kind of like, well,
so you got it to restart. Yeah, kind of weird.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
Yeah, could have shut off from the heat.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
Yeah, I don't know. I've never put my car in
that situation know how it would react, so I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
I don't know either anyway, So it's.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
A it's an interesting story. There's a lot out there.
There's a lot of differencing opinions. And personally, yeah, personally
one hundred percent don't think it was the UFO. No,
but I definitely think it's very possible that they came
across some type of experiment from the government, and if
it that is scary. If the government was experimenting stuff

(01:19:54):
with radiation, wouldn't surprise me though, and I got but
it's too bad, But.

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
Yeah, I have no idea. Okay, well, you guys, that
is season three, episode eighteen, and this is the part
of the episode where I ask Ben a silly question
and we have some fun little chitty chat and banter time.

(01:20:20):
If that's not your thing, please feel free to exit
stage right. We'll see again here next week. And for
the rest of our friends who do like to stick around, Ben,
I got a simple question for you, because I'm an
immense pain and I'm ready to put the heating pad
back on my back. Do you have any favorite weird
snack combinations?

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Weird snack combination?

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
Do you want me to go first with this one?

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
Okay, Lately I've been really into these things. They are
slices of like sharp white cheddar cheese with crispy dill,
like very sour pickles that my mouth is watering just
talking about it. But there's something about it, like I accidentally,

(01:21:11):
like I was at an event at my salon and
they had coshetery cups and I like was driving home
eating it and I was hungry because it was like
one point thirty in the afternoon, shocking to know when
I hadn't eaten anything for the day, I'd been surviving
solely on caffeine.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Shocking.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
And so I was just trying to like put some
food in my mouth, and I accidentally popped in like
a square piece of cheese and like a little like
dill pickle, little mini one, and I was like, say less, say,
I'm super into that, and I can't get enough of it. Now.

(01:21:52):
I've got like all different kinds of like sharp cheddar
cheeses and the thing, and different kinds of pickles, and
I like to pair them all together. That's my current one.
Cheese and pickles. Seems kind of weird.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
See I I'm not an explorer, No you're not. I
am a simple man, and I keep thinking simple. I
don't like to it's come as a shocked everything. I
don't really try new things on menus. I don't try
mixing things, and I don't look at things that go.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
If Ben's not with me and I need to order
him something, I can get him a chicken seese or salad,
a pepperoni pizza, or a chicken burrito without sour cream
based on where we are, and bring any three of
those home. He's gonna be happy as a clam.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
Well it's fine. So we're getting off topic, but that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
That's the whole point of this part.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
So a big thing happened last week, So Sierra and
I went and celebrated, and we went out to dinner,
and I was texting with some of my friends and
they were like, hey, because because several of us accomplished
this thing and we were celebrating.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
I love how much you're tiptoying around.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
So this this week, he was talking to a friend
of mine, David, and he goes, so, where did you go?
I said, we went out to Penelope's Pizza.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
I love pizza.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
You're not going to rick about it? And he's like, dude,
he was asking me. He's like, I've seen that place,
so I haven't gone so good. I think we talked
about it earlier a while ago. And he goes, I've
seen it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
How is it if you lived at Tucson. Check out
Penelope's Pizza.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
Yeah. I said, it's really good, and he goes, oh great.
He said, what have you tried there? Because I want
to go and I said, well, I haven't tried anything.
I've only tried the pepperoni pizza. Text me, if you
want to know, my wife's tried. Every time I go,
I try something different, I said, And everything she's tried

(01:23:50):
she likes. He goes, but you what have you had?
I said, I've only had the pepperoni And he's like, well, then,
how do you know it's good. It's like, well, the
pepperoni pizza is good.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
It's very good.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
That's the only thing I will eat there. Yeah, there's
a bunch of different pizzas, weird ones, and you say
they're all.

Speaker 1 (01:24:05):
Good, they are all very good.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
Will not try them.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
So I am a very simple man. It doesn't matter
what restaurant I go to. I look for the same
things and I order them. And that's how I like
my life. So when it comes to snacks.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
I we're just weird food combinations. Things we do.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
I think I think of that. I do that A
lot of people might find a little strangers. If I
get a Hershey's bar, I.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
Think you told us the story last week.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
No, okay, if I have a Hershey's bar, I don't
like to just eat that. I will dip it in peanut.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
But you did tell us this last week. When we're
talking about how or a couple weeks when we're talking
about Halloween candy.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
There you go. I'll tell you the same thing because
I am a simple.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
That's your weird food combo.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
I told you I don't have weird food combos. I
don't mix stup.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
I heard someone talking the other day, been wanting to
try this, but I have to buy it. They like
to take ruffles potato chips and dip it into cottage
cheese and eat it's discuss That sounds amazing. I'm here
for that. And my sister, this comes back to cottage cheese,
likes to put cottage cheese spoonfuls of it in her

(01:25:18):
tomato soup.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
That's disgusting too.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
And I had a weird pizza one time, and actually
downtown Disney they had a candle lope. They had pizza
with a candle lope on it. And here's the thing.
I am the person that I love being married to
Ben because he's going to order what he knows is
good at the menu, which allows me to be a
little risky in my choices, so I can try the

(01:25:44):
house specialty or the weird thing that people say is
really good, and if I hate it, Ben and I
are in a marriage that we are allowed to share
each other's food. It's not like, you know, if I
reach across and grab his fries, he's going to freak
out about it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
And so.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
I can always take the risk and the gamble, which
is paid off because I enjoy I like exploring weird food.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Yeah, I know you do. I don't. I just want
to stick to what I know. I know you do,
I will say. The only thing is I told the
kids about my ramen eggs things.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Yeah, I'd never heard of that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
You eat that now, but I have in the past.
Where if you take ramen, you cook it just enough
where you can unfold the ramen, you pull it out,
you put it in a skillet, and then if you
beat a few eggs together and pour it on the ramen.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
But the trick is you got to put the seasoning
packet in the eggs mixture.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
Yeah, in the eggs. You pour eggs on the ramen,
cook that, then flip the ramen, cook it so the
eggs are obviously completely cooked, and you then you can
just like put the ramen and eggs on a plate
and eat it. Put some sauce on there. It's really good.
That's when I ate that. When I was younger, when.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
I was poor, did you ever put ketchup on your
macaroni and cheese?

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
No, I put ketchup on my I guess I didn't
realize this. I grew up putting ketchup on my groty sandwich.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
It was weird to me when we got married.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
I love gro cheese sandwiches, and I dip it in ketchup.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
But I grew up that way, so no, I'd never
seen that in my life. But I also like putting
ketchup on my mac and cheese, which could not be
more like. That's gross, disgusting American food right there, like
box mac and cheese which ketchup on it is so good.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
That's gross.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
All right, guys, before this pain pill kicks in and
you guys get definitely way more Sierra than you bargained for.
We will wrap this up and we will see you
again here next week when Ben and I recap another episode.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
Of Unsolved Mysteries.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Bye mm hm

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