Gone Without a Trace: A Nurse, a Grandmother, and a Pilot’s Secret

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody, I'm Sierra and welcome back to another episode
of The Unsolved Couple, where every week been an oft
one of your original gateway drugs in the true crime
that's all that's serious? All right? Did you like my

(00:28):
MPR radio voice? Should I talk like that for the
rest of the time.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Don't do that.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Everyone will start to think that you have another host
with you, and they'll think that you found a special
guest while I got to go diddally.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Dadily stock An ask if you're not here.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
If something happens to me and I'm sick or unable
to do this happening, it's not happening. What will you
tell the people.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I won't tell them anything.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
They'll just be left on Tuesday morning empty handed.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, they got They've got anation the next time it
drops at some point.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Oh well, I guess guys assume the worst if we
don't drow up an episode.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
I've said this many of times. You are the driving force.
You are the creative ness behind all of this. You
are the one that keeps this thing going.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Keeps it going, keeps the wheels a turning.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah you I mean you're the skill behind it, the talent.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, tell the people what we're doing when tom row
it'll actually be said and done by the time they
hear this. But what are we doing on vacation vaca? Yes,
maybe Ben will be in VAK mode by the time
the end of this episode comes around.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
I am in VACA.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
No, you're not. You're not normal vac mode. Ben is
like way more energy, really tired.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, in a long week.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah. No, we're heading to the Magic Kingdom of Disneyland
of Disneyland. Yeah, that we are. We're not Disney adults.
We're not going I mean, I have no problem against
Disney adults. But we are taking children with us.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yes, yeah, and they are all very excited.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yes. So if anyone here is any giggling or interruptions,
it's because the kids feel like it's Christmas morning. They
are wound tight, they're ready to.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Go to bed. Yeah, wake up tomorrow and head.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
All right, So today we are recapping season three, episode fourteen.
Any thoughts on this episode?

Speaker 2 (02:50):
No, yes, it was it was fine. Yeah, I had
the one story you're going to tell.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
I got a lot of questions about that story.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
I think everyone does, but I think we all know
what the answer is and mine.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, that one's kind of weird too interesting. Y'all will
understand here in a minute, Okay, but before we dive in,
don't forget to follow the show wherever you're listening. And
if you enjoy what Ben and I are doing here,
please take a moment to leave us a five star
rating and review. It helps more people find the podcast
and keeps us bringing you more of the mysterious cases

(03:33):
that you love.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Did you have any thoughts on this episode?

Speaker 1 (03:40):
No, I went down a few rabbit holes with this one,
but no, I mean I think I think it was
a good unsolved mystery episode. This first story that I'm
going to tell you guys about here. Yeah, it's uh,
there's a lot of questions and it, once again, the

(04:01):
way it was told was kind of hard to follow
it so because there's a handful of talking heads and
you're not quite sure what they all have to do
with each other. So in December of nineteen eighty five,
a twenty eight year old nurse from Fayetteville, North Carolina,
named Debbie Wolf disappeared without a trace. At first, this

(04:27):
seemed like a tragic, straightforward missing person's case, but as
days passed, little inconsistencies began to come to the surface,
and details it hinted at something sinister may have taken place.
Debbie's friends and family believed the investigation was deeply flawed

(04:50):
and that the truth of what really happened to her
was being overlooked. Debbie was known for her kindness and compassion.
She loved helping people, and obviously as a nurse that
this gave her a sense of purpose in fulfilling all
of those things. Side note or I know, we're like
a couple of minutes in here. I originally really wanted

(05:12):
to go to school to be a nurse because I
think it's an amazing field. I think it's highly undervalued
and underappreciated by the medical community, mainly just in pay
and conditions of working. But I think I think the
people that come into the hospital tend to really value

(05:34):
and appreciate their nurses, and I think on the other
side of COVID, we really saw how great of an
impact that they have on They are really the face
of medicine.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, So this gave her a sense of purpose and
being able to do those things. Her mom was quoted
saying that Debbie thought that she could even pay the
smallest amount of kindness shown to her in her life,
she'd leave her own mark on the world. So that's
just the kind of person that she was. So Christmas

(06:09):
Day nineteen eighty five, this would have been our first Christmas.
We would have been little Christmas babies. Yes, we would
have what kind of presence do you think we got? Pick?

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Don't probably a Fisher Price something.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
A Fisher Price something, cabbage patch doll. Maybe you wouldn't
have gotten a cabbage batch doll. Yeah, those were big
in the ages. That was like the Christmas that like
we saw like fighting over the cabbage patch doll was
right around It might have been the Christmas or two before,
but it was like right around that time that that

(06:49):
was like an insane rush for those dolls. Oh good,
I don't get it either. But Debbie spends the day
the holiday at her house. It was simple, mild, chilled
kind of day, food, family, just spending time with each other.
The next afternoon, on December twenty sixth, she finished a

(07:13):
shift at the hospital and left work around four pm,
heading home to a small cabin about seven miles outside
of Fayetteville. This is Ben's dream come true.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, her house and cabin was awesome. Yeah, I am
here for it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Unfortunately, this would be the last time that anyone would
see Debbie alive. The following morning, Debbie did not show
up for her eight am shift. She didn't call in
and didn't answer the phone calls coming to her from
her work, which is completely unlike her. This was not
in her nature. She was known to be punctual and

(07:52):
even if she was running late, she would make sure
to let somebody know. By the next day, her family
is starting to grow worried. Debbie's mother, Jenny, went to
check on her with her husband John, and a family
friend named Kevin Gordon tagged along. So we've got three
people going to her cabin. This is now like December

(08:16):
twenty seventh, so Christmas Day family, twenty sixth at work. Oh,
I guess the twenty seventh, she didn't show up. So
the twenty eighth, they're at her house.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
So Debbie's cabin sat in a secluded wooded area. As
they pulled up, immediately things feel off and they do
a reenactment of the mom and her husband and the
family friend coming up and kind of walk us through
the event. So her car wasn't parked in her usual spot.

(08:54):
There was beer cans scattered throughout the yard, and it
was an unfamiliar brand that Debbie wasn't known to drink.
That might seem small to some people, but I think
someone who lives alone and like was likely very methodical
in her. Like you just even in our house, you

(09:15):
park your car on the same spot, period, end of story.
Does that not seem weird to you?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
No? Yeah, all of this I mean same thing.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Like, yeah, and people drink a certain kind of beer.
That's just what they're going to drink.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Well, But also like trash is scattered on your ear,
I know when trash is on my art and it
ain't mine.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Well, and it's the thing it wasn't like, Oh, she
was known to kind of let her trash kind of
overflow and scatter about, and they said that that wasn't
common for her. She took a lot of pride in
her little cabin. So it was on this was these
are red flags immediately starting to kind of pull up.

(09:59):
Her dogs, normally were fed and cared for, were running
loose and had not been fed. Inside the cabin, a
lot more strange things happened. Debbie was known to be
neat and meticulous, but her kitchen was in disarray, including
one of her nursing uniforms was crumpled on the floor
like she had taken it off in or hurry and

(10:20):
just kind of thrown it on the ground. Yeah, this
part I thought was weird, and it could be weird
for no reason other than it was just a weird thing.
So the friend Kevin, kind of everyone's looking around the
house to see if they see anything, which, now, like,
knowing that you know that she's missing, I'm like, don't

(10:43):
touch anything, right, But I also understand that they're just
trying to see if there was note did she fall
and get hurt? Was she Yeah, they don't know, but
like hindsight twenty twenty, I'm sitting there watching this and
I'm like, don't touch anything. But even looks around the
bedroom and comes out of her room and says he

(11:05):
found Debbie's purse shoved all the way up underneath her bed.
Is it weird that he located that?

Speaker 2 (11:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, maybe he was looking under bed to see if
she was under there. I just thought it was.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Weird, Like, yeah, I mean, obviously you're gonna look in
every crevice for where someone might be.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, I don't know. That to me was just a
little sus I don't know what, yeah, suss of him. Yeah, baby,
I don't know. It's quite of like one of those
things where it's like I found this, I can't believe.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
I just use the words sus. I take that back.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
It just felt weird to me that a purse was
hidden in a very obscure place and that was the
first thing that you found, like you went directly to it,
like you knew it was there.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
No, no, no, no, no, I don't. The re enacting amount
has shown that he went right to it. We have
no idea how long these people were in that house
and how long they were looking through all. I think
that might have been. He might have been there for
ten minutes and then found it.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's still very quickly to find a purse shoved in
a weird place.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
You know what, Looking under a bed? Oh, first off,
do not look under our bed because it just jam
packed those stuff. But if you looked under a bed
and there's only one thing under there, that is going
to be the thing that you grab and pull out,
what is this? And looking under a bed would be

(12:52):
I guess if you're looking for someone. I don't know.
I'm not ready to start saying.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
It was weird to me.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Weird that a purse, that is the purse you're using,
and it's shoved under the bed. That's so.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, it's weird that it was there, and it was
weird that he found it. That's just what I don't think.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's he found it, all right.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Fair, I thought it was weird. Ladies, let me know
what you think, all right. So he comes out says
he found her purse shoved underneath her bed, and then
the answer machine is blinking and a message had been
left earlier that day, and I wrote down what it said. Hey,
deb missed you here at work today. You've been out

(13:34):
a lot of days, making us worried when we miss
another one, end of message. But the message didn't make sense.
Debbie had been out of work for a lot of days.
In fact, she'd only missed a few hours at work
by the time that phone call came in fifteen feet, oh,

(13:55):
just fifteen feet from the cabin.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
I find it weird that he didn't identify him.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
So again, that was just what we were told on
Unsolved Mystery. Yeah, we he could have identified himself and
they just didn't include it in this. So fifteen feet
from the cabin is a pond. The group of people

(14:21):
that were there searched around the area call on her name.
There's no trace of Debbie anywhere. When Jenny the Mom
calls the sheriff office, she was told the tragic lie
that said a missing person investigation would not be able
to be opened up until seventy two hours had passed.

(14:47):
And grateful that today we know that that's actually not
really the case, but back then it is what it is,
and so her family just assumed that they had to wait.
It wasn't until December thirty first, five days after Debbie

(15:08):
vanished that authorities finally conducted a search of the property.
Bloodhounds are brought in to pick up scent, but you know,
officers like.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Wait, it's five days.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, there's nothing there. Officers walked around the pond, didn't
find anything, and so Jenny the Mom asked if they
had planned to use a boat and to dredge the
pond and or do any water searches, and he said
it was too late in the day and that they
would return tomorrow. Did they Nope, tomorrow never came. What's

(15:42):
that song.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
I think it's a country song. But no, they literally
just do no call, no show this woman. That's nuts.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, there's a lot of of at least according to
how unsolved mysteries and the detective it's interviewed. So the
Sheriff's office does have a representative in this. And it
doesn't look good.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
No, it does not, not at all. No, So New
Year's Day rulls around. Debbie's been missing now for six days,
obviously frustrated by the lack of progress. Kevin the friend
and another friend. So this is what's funny. His name

(16:33):
is Kevin Gordon, and the other friend's name this one
I'm referring to mostly buy his first name because his
other friend is named Gordon Childress. So we've got Kevin
Gordon and Gordon Childress. So I'm just gonna call him
Kevin and Gordon. So Kevin and Gordon returned to the pond.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Kevin Gordon, Kevin.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Gordon returned to the pond themselves, and both men had experience.
They don't tell us what kind of experience exactly, but
they did have experience with rescue work as well as
dive rescue experience. They had diver's gear and everything. I

(17:12):
would have loved to know what they did or how
they got this, not that it is at all of
that stuff, but it's not a common thing.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
No, that's not common. So clearly, yeah, I mean clearly
they have some express Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
So they actually called the police department or the sheriff's
department and ask permission, Hey, can we do this, And
even according to everyone involved on unsolved mysteries, they're given
the green light to go ahead, which is wild to
me because how does the chain of evidence then happen?

Speaker 2 (17:51):
I just think this should it appears, It appears, But
the sheriff's office was not really interested. Yeah, yeah, and
so I mean you're talking about chain.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
They weren't even thinking that. I was expecting him to
have any at.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
The end of the day. I mean, if a civilian
finds something the place, just come out and they take
custody of it, like that's whatever.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
So yeah, we're gonna find later, you guys that it
would have actually been really helpful to have like a
legitimate record keeping of things here. So Gordon enters the
water and begins to meticulously search. Within minutes, he noticed
something strange he saw two sets of footprints and drag

(18:41):
marks in the mud, So this pond is like mucky
and very sludgy at the bottom. As he dives deeper in,
he suddenly hit something solid. His mask actually flooded with water.
So he went up, cleared his mask out, and went
back down and realized what he had found. He had

(19:05):
found what appeared to be a human remained submerged partially
inside of a rusty fifty five gallon drum. They immediately
left the pond and called the Sheriff's department. The body
was identified as Debbie Wolf Terrible Yeah, and autopsies found
no drug, no alcohol in her system, and there was

(19:28):
no clear signs of injury or foul play. The coroner
ruled her death as drownding, but couldn't determine exactly when
she had died. To Debbie's family and friends, that explanation
just did not make sense. Kevin later said that Debbie

(19:48):
didn't look like a typical drowning victim. Again, I don't
know what his experience was with rescue, water, rescues, and recovery,
but he seemed to have the equipment and the knowledge,
so he he has some expertise in this, and again
I did in fact check this because I don't need
this on my Google search history. But according to him,

(20:09):
her eyes and mouth were closed and her body was relaxed,
which is not normal of someone who has drowned. According
to him, her clothes were oddly clean, there was no
trace of silt or mud that covered the bottom of

(20:32):
the pond, wasn't like on her body. And then there
was the barrel. Kevin remembered clearly that Debbie's body had
been inside it, but police later denied any existence of
a barrel when divers returned the next day to retrieve it. Again.
Why they didn't retrieve it that day, I don't know.
We are not given that information. I don't think the

(20:54):
Sheriff's department knows. However, they come back the next day
to retrieved the barrel and it was gone. All that
remained was an indentation in the mud where it had
been sitting. Months later, Jenny discovered something else that didn't
make any sense. The clothes found on Debbie's body did

(21:17):
not appear to be hers, or clothes that she recognized.
The pants were too big, the field jacket wasn't one
that she recognized as her daughter owning, and the shoes
were men's three sizes too big for her feet. Even
her brawl was several sizes too large.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, this is what. So we're going to get the investigator,
sheriff whatever. And he says that's not true, that the
clothes were hers.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
And we're gonna so. I guess I can say that
now we have a handful of narrators in this. We've
got the family, the Wool family and her friends, and
then we've got the sheriff. And unfortunately, because the lack
of investigation, I thought, so was it police or sheriff?

Speaker 2 (22:13):
I don't know. I think, yeah, I just didn't know
if it was like just the investigator. It actually was
the sheriff himself.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, I need. I should probably go back and check.
I might have it written down somewhere here later on
in my notes. But my concern is is that, due
to the lack of any sort of investigation at all,
we are left with two stories and trying to understand

(22:40):
which one of these is. I don't want to say
not true, because I don't think that the Wool family
would just lie, but they are also in the middle
of grief and eyewitnesses and trying to remember things in
the midst of trauma is not always perfect. Yeah, but
that's again when you rely on evidence and notes and

(23:03):
memos and photographs, all things which would have been available
if an investigation had been done.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
So instead we are left with the story as being
told by the Wolf family, which as of now seems
to be the most reliable narrator because they were the
only ones doing anything.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
They were the ones there.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
And the sheriff is just saying, but that's just not true.
I have nothing to back it up with. But that
just wasn't the case, or that just didn't happen, or
that wasn't like But he has also nothing to.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
But he he's I'm bringing forth any anything, And I
have a problem when he tells us that all this stuff,
isn't that true? That when your credibility is in question
already because one, you didn't even investigate, You didn't even
start till Yes, you didn't even look for her. There

(24:00):
here's a pond right by her house, and you couldn't
even be bothered to look in that.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
All you were coming back the next day to look
in the pond and never even showed up.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
You like just half, you know, the word I would
use normally this thing, and then you're trying to say, well, no,
this ain't true, and now this ain't true.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
You have no credibility.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
You've kind of already brought your credibility down by one.
You said seventy two hours and then you waited five days. Yeah,
and then you don't even look like I said, I've
already said, like you didn't even look at the pond
right next to the house, like, no, where was the investigation?
So when you then tell us that all this stuff

(24:51):
about the investigation, I'm like, yeah, how much did you
actually put into it?

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah? Your word doesn't really hold a lot of weight
at this point.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
I've got a few more, Yeah, I'm telling Okay.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
So you know, at this point, Jenny is convinced that
her daughter's been murdered, and rightfully shows she has she
has a good suspicion about like you trust your good
go with it because you've got nothing. This other story
makes no sense.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
I think you're entitled to ask that. Ye at this point.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
So this is kind of where we find out a
few things that Debbie had going on in her life.
So at the hospital where Debbie worked, she had regularly
began supervising the volunteers. One volunteer in particular, had made
Debbie uncomfortable. Debbie did tell her friends that he had
a history of psychiatric issues and had begun repeatedly asking

(25:45):
her out, even though she kept rejecting him. Somehow he
obtained her phone number called her multiple times. She asked
him not to call. The calls continued, and then one
night he told her, I know where you live as
a female. That's terrifying.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
So, yeah, that's when you live on.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
A cabin out in the woods. We've all seen that
scary movie, right like this is like, that's terrifying. And
so she had some credible things going on that there
was things making her uncomfortable. When Debbie's body was found,
the man was investigated, and I use that term very loosely,

(26:31):
but provided a simple alibi refuse to take a polygraph test.
I don't put any weight to polygraphs, so that doesn't
really matter. I would refuse to take one too. But
then soon after the investment, soon after talking to the police,
he left the state and cut off like communication, that's suspicious.
How many times have we talked to a story or

(26:52):
shared a story with you guys where that's been the case,
and they immediately leave like that should be a red
flag more than refusing to take a polygraph.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yeah, I don't put anyway in the refusing them.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah. So there was also a second volunteer, another man
who had also sought a romantic relationship with Debbie that
she had no interest in. Jenny Edwards later became convinced
that this was the man who had left the strange
message on Debbie's answer machine claiming that she had missed

(27:24):
multiple days of work. Again, that is the story from
the mother. Yeah, take that with what you want. Both
men are questioned, they found nothing to indicate any reason
to question them further, and they're both removed from any
sort of further investigation. Debbie's mother still believes that her
daughter was likely held against her will, possibly even by

(27:48):
one of these two men, and might have even been
killed a few days later. She thinks that someone returned
to the pond, removing the barrel to make her death
look like an accident. More than anything, she hopes that
someone out there knows what really happened to her daughter
and might come forward and share the information. And that's
kind of where un sel mysteries leaves us.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
So there was a few things about the barrel.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, I've got that in my update notes. Oh okay,
do you want to talk about the barrel now?

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Well, because the sheriff said something of why he thought
the barrel wasn't actually a barrel, and then the mom talks.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
About how she she had a burn barrel.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Your mom says that she had a burn bail on
her property and set next to a tree, and like
there was dead grass underneath it, and it was gone,
it was gone. And the sheriff gets on and says,
I wasn't She wasn't. She wasn't put in the pond
in a barrel. It was just her jacket.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah. So I actually have some other stuff in my
notes that I felt my side research that I can
kind of jump ahead on your head.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Fine, all right, so that's why I'm so myseriously this
give us her update. All right.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
First off, here's my disclosure. This story is extremely hard
to tell because of a couple of things. One local
police refused to investigate the scene, allowing people to come
and go in and out of that area for multiple
days before they even started anything. So we don't have
documentation on any sort of like day of how the

(29:20):
condition of the house necessarily looked Number two. Because her
death was ruled accidental, little to no investigation was done,
no preservation of evidence was done, So in turn we
have a story told mainly by her immediate family, who
as if today, have unfortunately all passed away, and the investigators,

(29:43):
who did not have the capability to do like any
or not even the cability, had no desire to do
the things that police should have normally done in this situation.
So with that disclosure out there, I did find out
a few things per my side research, no tracks, drag

(30:05):
marks or so on and so forth wherever found or photographed.
Per the police statements, we have no evidence of that,
just the family statements and then the police saying that
there was nothing.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Divers, Yeah, that's what he said, she said.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
He said that there was two sets of tracks. However,
later that was noted that he did not specify whether
it was two sets in and out or one set
in one set out. Okay. A diver from the Sheriff's Department,
Don Smith, confirmed that he did see the rusty drum

(30:50):
barrel in the water. He made no comment on tracks
in his report also did so. The barrel was spotted
by at least one member of the Sheriff's department said
in a few reports that I found now whether this
was a note or a memo or just in an interview,

(31:12):
I am not sure, but that he also saw the barrel.
So we have two divers who have claimed to see
the barrel, and multiple people reporting that there was a
burn barrel on the property that was missing and never
seen again.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, but then when they come back, they just say, oh,
she wasn't actually in.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
A barrel, yes, and we don't.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
They will say, now, we must have made a mistake.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, that makes no sense.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, all right. Also, I read in my research and
again I can only find this in like one or
two sources. So take this as you will. Debi was
rumored to have been at a party on the night
of December twenty sixth that was not stated in Unsolved Mysteries.
It was believed that she went straight from the hospital

(31:58):
to home. However, she possibly was at a party with
a man. This was a party of friends and colleagues
all around her ages. She was also to have rumored
to have a steady boyfriend at the time. Again, I

(32:20):
couldn't find anything on if they were in a very serious,
committed relationship, or if he was questioned by police or
anything at all like that. The other things I did
find is that her body was found in about five
and a half feet deep of water. She could have
stood up. But the important point was is that it

(32:46):
was thirty feet from the bank of the pond to
where her body was found. Thirty feet is a lot
of feet.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
The water at the edge of the pond is only
at an inch deep because the theory of the police
was is that she was outside playing with her dogs
and somehow fell into the water and drowned.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
That was their theory, is that she tripped and fell
in and then drowned.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Okay, So at the edge of the pond where she
would have been with her dogs, the water was about
an inch deep. The bottom had a gentle slope into
the pond and was only knee deep until past five
feet of the edge, So she would have had to
wander out past five feet from the edge of the

(33:38):
pond before it would have even gone above her knees.
And the barrel that was known to be in her
yard was never found at the end of the day. Sadly,
the way this story played out, it is likely that
we will never know. There's nothing left to test, there's

(33:59):
no live anymore to fight for her case, and technically
the case has been closed because it was ruled a drowning.
I also noted that she was found with like a
teaspoon of water in her esopha guess, like very little water,
no pond water in her stomach, no silt, no mud

(34:19):
in your nose.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Nothing. That's what I thought i'd heard.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
And that's it. That is a tragic, mysterious death of
Debbie Wolf.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yes, I mean my issues because the sheriff comes on
and says that an accident, and you know, the family
and the divers say there was a barrel, but there
wasn't actually a barrel. It was just her jacket, her
puffy jacket. That was probably so because and I'm like, okay,

(34:55):
here's my question. They found the body. You guys came
out and retrieve the body. Yeah, so you retrieve it.
You say there's if there was no barrel, why would
you say, why would you say I'm coming back tomorrow
to get it exactly? And when someone drowns on the

(35:16):
edge of water. They don't go out into the middle
thirty feet away and then sink to the board.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
No, they do not.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
They sit at the edge floating.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
I'm not saying that you can't drown in an inch
of water. You can.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
That's not yet. That's all I'm saying again.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
But there was no drugs and alcohol found in her system.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, I mean, everything that the police said just didn't
make sense and it was.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
It just made it very clear that they they botched this.
And that's me the being nice about it.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
What's your thoughts?

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Do your job. I here's the thing. I can't even
tell you what I think. I mean, I and honestly
think that there is a huge evidence that this girl
some ill willed fate. Whether it was a stalker or
a boyfriend, or a gentleman at the party, a hitchhiker,

(36:10):
I don't know. We have no idea, but I can
tell you with the beer cans in the disarray of
the house and the way she was found in the
missing barrel, on all of these things, that it is
likely that her life was cut short by some means
other than tripping while out playing with her dogs.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
But there's enough fear that it should have been highly investigating.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, and it will likely it won't be. There's nothing
to test, there's no case to open, there's nothing. The
police washed their hand of this. So my heart breaks
for this family. They've all since you know, passed away,
and I guess at the end of the day we
can hope that they found peace in the next stage.

(36:56):
All right, On that sad note, Benjamin, would you like
to tell us the story?

Speaker 2 (37:03):
I guess so. So's it's interesting it is.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
I don't know how I feel about this one either.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
And this one also you if you really wanted a
dig and you could go into a lot of rabbits.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Ohberry, you can.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
I didn't go into down the.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Rabbit, and I will say, like the disclaimer is is
that when sometimes things happen outside of the continental US,
it's hard to find sources to like bolster your story too.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, all right, I got a lot to note, so
I'm gonna try blow breakfast up. Sure to blow through
this all right. September twenty third, nineteen sixty three, Waterbury, Connecticut,
we get told about a man twenty eight years old,
Jeffrey Sullivan, who was former formerly in the military in
the Air Force, and now he's a private pilot, commercial pilot,

(37:59):
and he's going off. He's telling his wife goodbye and
gave gives her his Saint Crystal necklace, and he tells
her this is it, this is it. I'm not doing
any more missions. This is my last one. Because he
was doing covert mission.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Covert or illegal covert. Okay, right, is this like the
helicopter pilot that lives at the border somewhere like.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Okay, So, and he tells his wife, I'm going to
be back in five days.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Well, never tell people this is the last time I'm
doing something nefarious, risky, or dangerous, because that is a
guaranteed way. It's like in the screen movie. Don't say
I'll be right back, because you ain't coming back.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
So, fortunately it was the last time. This family song,
we're get introduced to Sherry Sullivan. She's the daughter of
Jeffrey Sullivan, and she tells us like listen, they never
saw their dad again. She never saw her dad again.
She was I think seven at the time when he disappeared,

(39:12):
and he disappeared after he left, he disappeared four days
later over the Caribbean. And so Sherry is a private investigator.
Now she's decided I'm looking into the disappearance of my dad.
I need to know what happened to him. So here's
our story. We get told about Jeffrey. He joined the

(39:36):
military when he was eighteen years old. He earned his
wings in nineteen fifty seven. Two years later he was
discharged from the military and he became a commercial pilot
and he started doing I don't know, flying for a
bunch of different people. We don't know. But then Robert

(39:57):
Stack comes in and he tells us about.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
What the Cuban missile crisis Cuba. I really want to
go to Cuba someday. But all right, so beautiful.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Right as Jeffrey is getting out of the military, Castro
takes over, and what comes of Cuba Communism? Communism. We
don't like that.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
I wouldn't even say it's communism. It is a totality
of like dictatorship. Like it's more extreme to me than communism.
Remember that story I told you about the guy in
South Africa that was like this tyrant rule or remember
that is communism.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
It's communism is ruled by tyrants.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
I know, like an extreme version of communism.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
There's not a good version of communism.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
I understand that there is no good version of communism.
Do you not remember the story I told about the
leader in South Africa with the people, and I think
they called him something else, like it was communism and
like a secondary title that he had. I cannot remember
what it was. Anyways, it's like warlord crazy people like.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
That's the people that want communism.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
I understand that. But do you think there's a difference
between Kim John Yu communism and China communism.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
I don't understand the question and the.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Way China has ran verse, right, China is communist nation.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Obviously it's different.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
So that's what I'm saying. But you look at North Korea.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
But also you look at what China does to the weakers. Yeah,
I'm probably saying that wrong. But they literally put them
in camps, yeah, ed cation camps, Like they literally.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
I'm not saying that there's no version of communism that's like, oh,
this is casual communism and I'm here for it.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
But you could make the argument we shouldn't even get
into that. I'm actually not.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I'm just saying there is a various degrees, and Cuba
has one of the very extreme versions of communism. Okay,
you disagree with me.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
But no, I'm not disagree. I thought Cuba there wasn't great.
I mean clearly no.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
We allowed people to I mean people were fleeing.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I know a guy that literally as a child like
had to He's a good guy. I worked with him
and he literally his family almost died trying to get ross.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
That's and that's what I'm saying is when you look
at the way, we don't have people trying to do
that from China. Correct. They're not trying to get here
to escape their rule, are they. I'm asking you a
genie like, I don't know. Maybe that's my ignorance.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Maybe not all of them. I think there are some
up in some areas there that are not happy that
would probably do a lot to get out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
So I'm not saying that any form of commun I
am not a pro communist. Let me get that on
the record right now. I just think if you I
there's a handful of communist leaders who have risen to
the top as far as like absolutely brutal, next level,

(43:42):
and Fidel Castro is one of those people.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah. So when Castro gets the power, the US is
there's well.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
They're real close, they're real they're real, real close.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
So obviously we get told about So the government starts
running operations because obviously we get a lot of exiles
from Cuba here to the United States. They're upset that
their government had fallen and cash shows in power, so
they want to overthrow Castro. And so the government was

(44:22):
helping fund and helping organize operations to do that. And
one of the men behind these things was thirty seven
year old Alex Rourke. He was a journalist and a photographer.
They say, I'll get into that later, but that's what

(44:43):
he claims you, Yes, what he claims on paper, that's
what he was. Yeah, But so he was behind a
lot of operations to help try to overthrow Castro. Okay,
And in nineteen sixty one, Ah, Jeffrey May meet Oh Kelly,

(45:07):
It meets Alex Rourke, and Alex Rourke hires him to
help fly missions. What exactly he does, we're never told,
and I don't.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Think we're ever going to get that information.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
So obviously nineteen sixty one the pigs happens. That was
a disaster.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
JFK.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
What's that was it?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
JFK? Yeah, See, I do remember seventh grade history. Thank
you whoever My seventh grade history teacher was in your face.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Then October nineteen sixty two two Cuban missile crisis.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Also big problems things.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
This is a cold war for.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
You, I understand. That was yeah, crazy stuff.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
So after the Cuban missile crisis and the failure of
the Bay of Pigs, the government's like, all right, maybe
we should be a little bit more under the radar
of what we're doing. So they start like probably the

(46:21):
weird again. They don't explain this, They just make these
broad statements. And you know how I feel about broad statements.
The governments like, listen, individuals that are helping do this,
they need to stop. And they put.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Out some wink.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Yeah, they put out a warning in the newspaper to
six individuals to hey, stop doing what you're doing. The newspaper, Yeah,
and it was one of the people on there was
Alex Work.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Can you imagine being the wife reading and like Sunday morning.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
It was the newspaper. They put it out clearly where
everyone knows it.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Your frosted flakes and your hot coffee, and your hair's
stall pinned up still, that you slept in so beautifully
and you pull open your morning post and you see
your husband's name in the newspaper warning him to stop
doing what he is doing.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
I think you probably know what your husband's doing at
this point. I think so you don't think that him
going missing for days and weeks on end to Cuba
and to different places.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
No. I just watched this documentary called Like Something Upstairs,
and this guy worked in the drug world and his
family had no flipping clue what he was doing. I
think if you're doing dangerous things, especially if you care
about your family, potentially their safety, the little that they

(47:48):
know the better. Maybe she knew he was flying and
doing certain things, but the ins and outs absolutely not.
I doubt she had any clue how deep he was.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
That's not the pilot. Yeah, I'm talking about Alex. The
pilot is being hired by Alex Ror. Alex Rurke is
one getting called.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
I think the pilot was even telling his wife, Hay,
I'm working with these insanely people that are doing crazy,
dangerous things.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I don't know. I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
I will stupp interrupting, you're.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Good, ask away, because but I will say I don't know.
I don't have a problem using that term. I don't know.
So govern warns these individuals September twenty third. It was
literally like six days later after that came out, they
decided to fly this mission September twenty third, nineteen sixty three.

(48:41):
Here's our timeline. He leaves Connecticut, he lands in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Okay,
the next day he meets with Alex Rourke and two
other men, one of them being Frank Sturgis. And Frank

(49:03):
Sturgis is he becomes pretty well known later on, okay,
because he, of course, Unsolved Mysteries doesn't say this. I
love how they do this. They literally just say Frank
Sturgis becomes well known because of the Watergate scandal. Okay,
you know why he was famous in the Watergate scandal

(49:25):
because he was one of the five individuals that broke
into the watergate and was arrested for it and did
time for it.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Oh so he was like heavily involved. Yeah, and not
on the good side.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
No. No, then this is the best part. And this
one actually really ticked me off. Okay, this guy comes on,
a guy comes on to Unsolved Mysteries. And let's make
this very clear, if you haven't watched Unsolved Mysteries, if
you're like me, and you wouldn't watch it, right, you're

(49:59):
just listening to if.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
You weren't married, just here where your wife was forcing
you to watch.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Not forcing, but we have decided to do this together. This.
But let me say every person that comes on to
Unsolved Mysteries when they first come on and they put
their their.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Lower third is what it's called. That's what it's called
their lower third, love dropping documentary knowledge into your beautiful
little brain.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
That's because I don't watch that.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
I know you don't. It's called your lower third. And
mine would say, see your turner podcaster wife.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
It would tells. Every person on Unsolved Mysteries up to
this point, it drops their name and who they are, like,
how they are associated with this right, private events.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
I'm going to see. Most people listening to this have
seen a documentary or two.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
This guy rolls up nothing, nothing, and I kind of
pissed about it because he's coming on in making statements effects,
and I say, who the heck are you?

Speaker 1 (51:13):
It was your expertise to say these things?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Well, it's Sturgis himself. But why they couldn't tell us that?
I don't know? And then you don't even want to
tell us what the guy actually did. He's kind of
a douche.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Well, yeah, he was part of the Watergate scandal, which
makes you not a good guy.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
So it was him himself, but on some mysteries, doesn't
want to tell us that. So he tells us that
Rourke had bought a B twenty five bomber and he
had it in Nicaragua, and they were going to meet
with the general and they wanted them to outfit to

(51:58):
be twenty five run bomb rates in.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Cuba as private citizens.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
We're gonna get in it, okay, Because that's the other question,
is this guy.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
I mean B fifty two bombers.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
No, not B fifty two, B twenty five. Oh, if
I said B fifty two, I apologize.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
I don't know you said that. Here's the thing, my
knowledge of the Betweent airplanes is zero.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
B fifty two is a massive bomber.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Here's any five. Anyone buying a bomber of any.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Sort to be twenty five was a bomber for World
War Two? Okay, And if you saw it today it's
I think I could be wrong. I think it's a
four propeller one.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
That massive plane, just a four propeller one. Okay.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Anyways, supposedly they have one. This is all according to Sturges. Okay.
So Sturgis convinced Rourke he needed to go to Nicaragua
first meet with the officials and get this all squared
away before they start. I guess bombing Cuba. I don't know.

(53:10):
Your questions are my questions?

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Crazy Banana?

Speaker 2 (53:14):
I agree. So they rent a plane and they're going
to take off the next day. So Rourke's wife drives
him to the airport and on the way they pick
up another guy and she tells a story. She's not interviewed.
We're just hearing what she told that he was a

(53:38):
Hispanic individual with broken English. Okay. So they get to
the airport and who do they meet there Jeffrey Sullivan. Right.
They get in their plane and at eight am they
take off a twin engine plane and for some reason,
so a small plane. Small, yes, okay, for some reason,

(54:01):
ror Or Sturgis and the other dude that they met
with the day before, they were supposed to but Sturgis
and his companion mysteriously don't go on there.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
They changed They were supposed to, but then change their
mind at the last minute.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I don't know. Sturgis doesn't answer that question. Rus Sturgis,
you shouldn't.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
He is an unreliable narrator.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
So eight am. Take off from Fort lauder Now, and
like I told Jeffrey, Alex and the stranger are on
the plane. Sturgis and his companion who they'd met with
the day prior gone whatever.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
F So this is now from Sturgis set up the
Nicaragua And that's his plane, isn't it, or the his bomber.
He's the owner of it.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Rourke bought the B twenty five, Park owns it, okay,
but Sturgis.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
But Sturgis set up the connection in Nicolos. Yeah, and
I'm definitely not saying nicka roguid. Nope, that's all right,
We're gonna move on.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah, all right. So the FA has a report. This
is their report. They take off at eight am, and
for some reason they returned to Fort Lauderdale three times,
and on the third time they tried to like land
and the tower tells them, hey, man, your landing gear
is not even down, so don't So they don't land.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
I know, but this makes sentence. This is an expert
flyer or an expert pilot.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yes, I know. None of this makes sense. They take off,
they don't return to Fort Lauderdale. Five hours later, they
land at North Perry Airport, which is only thirty miles
away from Fort Lauderdale. Are they doing so? They have
no idea where they were for those five hours and
what happened those five hours.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
They go to redit a flight plan.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
We this is all for the FAA report. So I'm
going to guess. But here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Once you get I'm just trying to make sense of this,
because even when I was watching this, I'm like, how did.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Anyways, I say.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
I have very little knowledge, but I have I have
flown in a helicopter quite a bit, and once you
get out of the airspace, you're just out of the airspace.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Okay, here's the thing I didn't. I don't know that you.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Come into their airspace. You have to call them and
tell them, hey, we're coming into your airspace. We're coming
in at this, and then they give you directions. And
this is just me from my very little notch. I
have no idea about commercial planes, helicopter. Yeah this, uh
that all that stuff could be totally different, So I
could be whatever I know, which is very little. Might

(56:49):
not even relate, so I don't know. I mean technically
they do, because that we talk about I'm going to
talk about it later. So all right, I lost my
place here. Later they land thirty miles away. They go
to refuel, and the guy that refuels them supposedly says

(57:09):
he barely puts in any fuel. So what were they
doing for five hours? And clearly they weren't flying for
five hours? So where do they land?

Speaker 1 (57:16):
They don't know, We have no idea.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
One thirty they depart North Ferry and they listed so
this is where they'd listed there somewhere in Honduras. Is there?
I can't. I can try to say the name, but
I'm gonna watch it.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
I think you should try, because I've said a lot
of names on this podcast, and I've watched every one
of them.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
No, I don't need to Hondurs. Three forty three. They
then radio the Miami tower, which I can't. You should
be out of this is now over two hours, so
you should should.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Be You should put your way to hont Doors by now,
and you.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Should be out of Miami's airspace.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
If I had been in a helicopter in an airplane
for now, what's several hours all day, barely made it
like one hundred miles. I would have lost my mind
by now.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
So they revise their flightplane and say they're going to
to come in Panama, okay, and the tower.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Advice they're going down to Panama.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Now. The tower advises them, hey, listen that actually, according
to the aircraft you're flying, that's two hours past what
your aircraft come act.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
That's what I brought up. It's a small airplane. It
is not meant for long term travel.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
He tries to advise it again and puts the place
further and they tell them the same thing.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Doesn't this come off as a ratic behavior?

Speaker 2 (58:47):
I don't know, but you're trying to You have multiple
people like, yeah, look, no one's looking at the totality
of this whole thing.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Yeah, And the unreliable narrator who helped with water Gate
is the person trying to act as if he had
no he's trying to anyway. Yeah, I'm annoyed.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
It gets better. I know, seven hours pass. No one
has any idea where these people were, what they're doing.
But guess what. At ten twenty two pm, they radio
the Miami Tower again and say, hey, we're now going
to belize and I know, so they supposedly refueled and

(59:35):
Kazume Mexico probably said that wrong too, cosme sure, and
that was their last sighting. They refueled there. Supposedly they
were seeing there, they take off, no one ever sees
them again, so they just are assumed that they're lost

(59:58):
at se. Supposedly a search was done, nothing was ever found,
all right, So we get back to Sherry the daughter.
She files a Freedom of Information Act, and like in
the nineteen eighties, she now is starting to investigate what
happened to my dad? He disappeared clearly he was doing

(01:00:21):
some weird stuff. She files his Freedom of Information Act.
She gets like five thousand pages from the FBI, CIA,
a bunch of different government agencies. Most of the pages
are redacted.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Dude, they showed in the reenactment. It's ninety percent just
like SHARPI blacked out, blacked out, blackdout.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
A lot of it is redacted, and then she even
says reading through it, it leads her to believe that
there's at least like four hundred more pages that she
never even got whoa so, but they can't find anything.
So she does say in pages she finds a name

(01:01:01):
called Floyd Park, somehow associated with her dad. She supposedly
finds him, contacts him, and he tells her that he
saw her dad two days after supposedly he disappeared in Belize,
but come to find out, Park won't give any details.

(01:01:23):
She has no idea how he's connected to her dad,
and then he disappears off the face of the mapp.
No one can ever find this.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Stories I supposedly saw this person but wants nothing. Yet
this makes no sense.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, so Sherry believes that her dad was could have
possibly been a prisoner in Cuba. Supposedly Castor knew about
her dad and Rourke and had a bounty out for him.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
And imagine that's terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
So she meets a man author news guy, like a
newspaper guy, Marty Casey, and he supposedly he tells a
story that he met a guy a Cuban exile and
the guy was like, hey, man, don't you do you
know Sullivan? He's like who? And supposedly he says that

(01:02:18):
he was in prison several years prior with with Jeffrey Sullivan.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
It's another sighting in Cuba.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Yeah supposedly, Yeah, Okay, take that for what it is.
She also finds a name by the NIMA, by the
name of Enrique Molina Garcia in the documents, who is
supposedly a double agent for Cuba.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Double agent for Cuba means we.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Thought he was an agent, but then he was an
agent for Cuba.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Got it. So he's anti America, pro.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Cuba, but coming to us saying.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
He was but pending to waive the American.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Flag and pro America anti Cuba.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
But that was just a Pretendzie.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
So she believes that the Seneryque was the third man
in the plane, lured him, lured them to go to Cuba,
where they were then captured.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
So here's my question, and you might find this in
your updates. Is it possible that the man flying the
plane was acting erratic in his flight plan because he
could he was actually in danger.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I have no idea. I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Okay, it was just a thought to me like that.
It's a cry for help. Trying to land without your
landing gear like is crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
I don't know. I got nothing. I have no answers
for why he was doing what he was doing, all right,
So that's where i'solve mysteries.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Leaves us Okay, any updates at all? Update, I cannot
imagine what this with. Yeah, redacted CIA files that anything.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
SO has daughter at least up to like twenty twenty three,
is still fighting for answers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
That breaks my heart.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
So here's the only thing. These aren't great updates. Two
thousand and two, the Department of Veteran Affairs did finally
list her datus am I.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Okay, that's something they said.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Listen, we think she sued the Cuban government in nine.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Did that work out for wrong for death?

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
She was supposedly in a court in Maine awarded twenty
one million dollars, But.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
I cannot imagine she's ever going to see up any
of that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Supposedly a federal court dismissed it in like twenty seventeen, like, yeah,
you're never going to get You're never going to get
that never and she never has.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
But when you sue someone for wrongful death and things
like that, then at least stuff could be entered into
the court record, which is what I'm going to guess
she was wanting to do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Yeah, So I did look into Rourke a little bit. Okay,
he is there's very strong that he was a CIA
operative he worked for the CIA. He was running operations
for the series.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
That makes more sense to me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yeah. I also looked into Stargis because I was no,
he's dead. He died in like ninety three.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Oh, he's been gone for a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Yeah. He was a CIA opertive too, seriously before all
of this yet, so his thing. I'll be honest, I'm
a little ignorant on the wall. I know the general
of what happened in Watergate, but the details I don't.
So I kind of just read up on him very briefly,

(01:05:48):
very briefly, because I was curious who was he? Him
and five other dudes, I mean, yeah, and why were they?
Like how did the president recruit him to go? Break
came there? Now he was a former and I say
that their quotes former CIA operative like now you were

(01:06:08):
still a CIA. So he was a CIA operative too.
And yeah, but as of right now, when it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Comes to the CIA, it's so you would. It reminds
me of you know what. The CIA reminds me of
that show on Apple where people go into the elevator
and think their brain goes away. What's that show called? Yes?
I think that is what I think of the CIA.
I think of severance mixed with stranger things.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
And I think the people that work for say they
do great things, Like I think what they're trying a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Of primes and justify it saying that they're doing it
for the benefit of X, Y or Z, the boys
on the Track, like all of that stuff. I think
the CIA is basically a federal funded criminal organization that
it's away with whatever they want.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Now, maybe I disagree.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
A lot of things can be good come out of that,
but I think a lot of tragedy happens in the intermedium.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
I think what they try to do and what they
have done is they definitely think they're trying to I'm
not going to we could have a huge debit and
I don't think you or I don't trust the minds
are going to get But I will say the stories
that have come out about CAA and like the sixties,

(01:07:33):
seventies and eighties is wild. Yeah, but I do think
there's a lot of stories that never come out and
what they did.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
I think the things that we hear about the CIA
is scratching the surface on the insanity of what happens
under the umbrella of the CIA.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
So anyways, back I just don't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Trust the government in general.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
So at the end of the day, there is literally
not been any other details that have come out. No
one's ever found their bodies, they're playing anything like that.
My poor daughter, all the questions we had that she
had back in the eighties, I think she years that
those all those questions are still She did say I

(01:08:20):
could not find her source. She said that there was
reliable sourcing that her dad was alive as late as
ninety one, being aware.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
That captive in Cuba.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Okay, but I could not find what that was that
she believed that that was true. Okay, So take that
for what it is. That's all I got.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Okay, all right, Well, before I get into our third story,
just a friendly reminder that we have a lot of
fun over on our social medias and if you would
like to join in on the fund, you can find
us on TikTok and Instagram, Unsolved Coupled Pod. If you
ever have any questions or information whatever, or you just

(01:09:10):
want to chat with us, you can email us at
unselfc Couplepod at gmail dot com. You can DM us
on any of our social media's and we do have
a social media group on Facebook. Called Unsolved Coupled pod
discussion group on Facebook that you may get on in
shitty chat about the cases that we are covering. Feel

(01:09:31):
free to also post any information you have on cases,
anything you'd like us to potentially cover in the future. Whatever.
We love to hear and see you guys and connect
with you guys as much as possible. And while it
is me mostly running our social media, Ben is up
to date on everything too. I show him all of
our dms and posts and YadA, YadA, YadA. Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
I have a.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
Missing personon's case and I'm going to give you an
old time disclosure. This is from the early nineteen hundreds,
so when I tried to do side research on this
it was very difficult. So here we go.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
This is when it's just a story, it literally literal.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
I'm just going to share this story with you because
even where it connects, the dots we're going to find
out actually doesn't even add up. It's just it's just
a story.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
It's a lady telling story of her grandad.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Yeah. So in the early nineteen hundreds in Brookfield, Wisconsin,
a woman named Coriander Olsen said goodbye to her four
children con Condrianda are a d n A.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
It's an interest.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
I think it's a beautiful name. Con Conrianda.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
I'm sure you said it right. I just think it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Yeah, I mean, at least it's not like al at
Us or what's another old timey name, Clarence.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
I was kidding, that's when Grandpa's name, and I love
that name.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Yeah, But say goodbye to her four children and boarded
a train till Milwaukee. She told them that she had
a doctor's appointment and would be home the next day.
I cannot imagine living in a world where you have
to board a train to go to a doctor's appointment.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
So I think she was coming back.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
Well, that's going to be the question, right. Her youngest
daughter was promised a new doll when she returned. Her
oldest son, Edwin, was fourteen, and she asked him, are
you sure you don't want to come with me? And
he said no, But that would be the last time
her family would ever see her. For the rest of

(01:11:50):
his life, Edwin was haunted by the decision. This poor boy. Yeah,
if this woman did what she thinks what I think
she did, shame on her putting this on this man.
This boy was fourteen at the time, and he lived
his entire life haunted by the decision to not join

(01:12:10):
his mother on the train. He believes that if he'd
gone with her, she would have come home, and he
never stopped wondering how or why she disappeared. In nineteen ten,
decades Leander Edwin's daughter made it her missions, We've got
two daughters here trying to find out what has happened

(01:12:32):
to their ancestors. Well, I guess that one was her father.
This one is what her grandmother. To find the truth,
and in nineteen eighty three she began investigating the mystery
that had shadowed her family for generations. She was determined
to uncover what had become of her grandmother that she
never met. From her research, she learned in eighteen ninety one,

(01:12:56):
a young woman by the name of Corianton, then just twenty,
had married Carl Olsen, a thirty year old railroad rail
road coachman. Okay, so we've got a twenty year old
and a thirty year old in eighteen ninety one. By

(01:13:21):
most accounts, their marriage was not a good one. Jenevieve
later said that her grandfather was not good to her
grandmother and that he may have been abusive, though she
didn't have any documentation to show it. In those days,
divorce was rare, frowned upon completely like shunned from society.

(01:13:47):
When a marriage failed, it was common that one person
would just disappear or walk away. For years, the family
believed that maybe that's what the grandmother had done, left
an unhappy marriage behind, but as she uncovered more details,

(01:14:09):
that theory no longer fit. According to this lady, she
began to believe that her grandmother had not simply left,
but she had been quote unquote taken, and that something
terrible had happened to her. And in nineteen eighty five,
her and her husband owned a small gift shop in

(01:14:30):
South Suckok City, Nebraska. I guarantee you I did not
say that. Right On a September afternoon, she had an
encounter with one of Ben's favorite people, and this would
change the course. I was wondering when you were get
a ba.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Gosh, are you freaking kidding me? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
So mind you. This lady has got this tragic family
history has believed that likely her grandmother left an abusive marriage.
Her dad dealt with that guilt his entire life, and
then in nineteen eighty five, a woman walks into her

(01:15:16):
shop and disrupts that entire narrative. So this woman walks
up and introduces herself as Susan Stickley Tink Stickley and
said that she meant she mentioned just kind of casually,

(01:15:41):
subtly dropped a little hint that she was a psychic,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
And then you know what it is about psychic. We're
gonna pause right here. Okay, here's the thing about psagis
you know the joke, the joke that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Went around for a long time, Tell me the joke.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
About how do you know someone's in CrossFit? Because I'll
tell you that, I tell you how do you know
someone's a psychic? Because they just go around and tell
everybody their psychics. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
So then she also casually said, out of the blue,
just randomly, you want to ask me about your grandmother.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
Don't you. She's probably said this to at least four people.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
I'm sure she has.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
And she finally found someone to hook line and sinker. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
I think that she had a little bit more knowledge,
and I'll get into that later. So of course this
woman is stunned and admits, yes she did. Susanne asked
if she had anything that belonged to her grandmother, and
Genevieve Hannater over the couple's marriage license and a wedding
photographer and a wedding photo. She turned them over, closed

(01:16:59):
her eyes and rifted off into a trance, and then
told Genevieve not to speak to her while she was
communicating with the ghosts from the beyond.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
That's what I tell everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
And then she began to describe what she was seeing.
She said, oh, oh, I can see your grandmother. I
can see her boarding a train with her children, crying
as she waves goodbye. And oh, oh no, I can
also see her being beaten. And then oh no, oh,
I can feel the Carl your grandfather. He knew what

(01:17:33):
happened to her. The reading sent chills through Genevieve. She
couldn't believe that this stranger knew such intimate details, things
that no one outside of her family had ever been told.
So what does she do now? Mind you? I will
say this red flag warning and number one to me,

(01:17:56):
this woman was wearing sunglasses inside through the reenactment.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
You know, I feel people that are were.

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
Immediate red flag immediately no, immediately leave if you've got
sunglasses inside the building. I don't need to talk to you.
I know everything I know about you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
You know what, let me just say this.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
Who wore sunglasses inside p didy? There you go. That's
everything you need to know.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
Do you think I'm asking a legitimate Okay, because she
tells that this psychic all crazy? Into the details? Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
First off, I'd like you to recognize my dramatic.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
It was great, It was wonderful. Okay, I appreciate it. Acting.
Do you think that maybe the details weren't as specific?
She gave a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
Uh yeah, broad details.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
And then when we tell the story, because we want
people to believe, because.

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
We believe in the gaps, we believe that what she
said is true, that you feel that you have to
maybe hundred or accentuate what she might have said so
that so you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Don't feel like you've been taken advantage of or just
made a fool of because.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
His thing she says it you you're like, absolutely, she
is speaking and she's saying things, and then you retell
it and you might add a little bit of color
to it because you want them to understand that this
what she said is true because you fully believe that
what she.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
Said, One, I think that's human nature.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
I'm not saying it happened here because I can't make
I technically shouldn't make assumptions.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
I'm saying that wouldn't surprise me, that it is human nature, right.
I think we do that all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
We try. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, we
can all look back and we've all done that in.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
Some way or another, even whether knowingly or not.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
I mean, I've never spot spoken to a psychic, because
I would never do that in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
But I have also never spoken to a psychic either, trusting. Okay, well,
but you're about to, oh, well later, that's that was
being a psychic. Right now, someday when we're Disney, someone
is going to come up to me and tell me
that they're a psychic, and then my podcast is about

(01:20:17):
to become. Now that's too famous, that's too specific. Okay.
So she goes to the psychic's office.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
Of orse, she does, of course she does.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
So, Yeah, this lady's making I'm gonna guess we never
know this for sure, but I'm going to guess there
was some money exchange involved. Maybe not, but I'm just
gonna yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
She's just a psychic out of the goodness of her
heart and never takes a dollar.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
So the psychic tells her, you will receive a packet
of old letters that will reveal all the things that
you need to know about your grandmother and her disappearance.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
It's the chances she sent them herself.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
That's ding ding ding ding.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
Put a pin in that comment. Okay. So she also
tells her that her grandmother was buried in an unmarked grave.
Super helpful.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
Thank you, hey, this dead person that you don't know
where she went. Yeah, she's buried out there in.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
The ether somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
I can tell you that woo really nailed that one.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
Okay, And incredibly, according to our storyteller, the predictions all
seemed to come true. Weeks later, she Genevier receives the
package of old letters and photographs from her grandmother's niece
and nephews. Many were from the eighteen hundreds, and letters
mentioned the trouble in the marriage and confirmed that she

(01:21:43):
had last been heard from around nineteen ten, the year
that she vanished. Encouraged rather the discovery, Genevieve wrote a
letter about her search to a Midwestern newspaper her stroke
was printed, and soon another unexpected clue arrived. A man
named Bill Carpenter from Fort Scott, Kansas, reached out after
reading the article and told Genevieve about an unmarked grave

(01:22:05):
near a small town in Ellis, Missouri, a grave that,
according to local legends, belonged to a woman that was
found murdered near the railroad tracks decades earlier. For generations,
the grave had been tended by railroad workers and always
adorned with flowers every Memorial Day. When Bill mentioned this
grave near the tracks, Genevie was overcome with another one

(01:22:26):
of Susan's predictions had obviously come true. At the turn
of the century, Ellie was a small farming town. According
to legend as well, a well dressed woman stepped off
the train one afternoon and was seen arguing with a
man near the platform. Witnesses said it looked like a
lover's quarrel. The two walked east down the tracks, arguing.

(01:22:48):
The man was later seen returning alone, boarded a train
and disappeared. Three days later, a woman's body was found
alongside the tracks. She had been beaten and shot through
the heart. Could identify her, her name, her home, and
her story were all a mystery.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
That is a true story, Yes, debating that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
I'm just letting people know because we've got a psychic involved,
and that that is that is a documented of the unmarked.

Speaker 2 (01:23:17):
Grave railroad people take care of Yes, that is.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
A true historical event and that exists. I looked it up.
It is still there to this.

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
Day, and they still take care of it. Of course.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
The rail war, the railroad workers that found her buried
her in a nearby field, marking a resting place with
nothing but a few small like stones, and they've tended
to it ever since. So Genevieve and her husband later
visit the grave and her husband snaps a picture of
her standing beside it, and a strange light appeared next

(01:23:54):
to her photo, a faint glowing shape. Generally believed that
is the operation of the unknown woman. She returned later
again and took another look at the photo, and once
more the same light. Oh took another photo, and once
more the light appeared next to her. Now the psychic

(01:24:14):
looked at the photo and said that the figure was
her grandmother. Her grandmother's spirit still tied to the place
where her body resides. Genevieve said that in her heart.
She believed that she'd finally found her grandmother's grave full stop.
Not everyone agrees with this account. The historian Pat and

(01:24:38):
his incredible Beard are on the television to tell us
he would like us to be aware that local newspapers
had written about the grave as early as nineteen eighty eight,
twenty two nine years eighteen eighty eight, thank you Turner

(01:25:02):
for pointing that out, twenty two years before this woman's disappearance,
and one article described the victim as a girl less
than twenty years old, and her grandmother was thirty eight
when she disappeared. So the question is if it is true,

(01:25:31):
then one question remains, who was the man seen arguing
with her at the train station. Genevieve discover on the
same time that her grandmother disappeared, Carl had also gone
away for a while, and she didn't want to believe
that her grandfather was involved, but with everything she had uncovered,
she wasn't sure what to think anymore. Today, she stik

(01:25:51):
is continuing to search for the truth, and she says
she needs answers not only for herself but her father,
who has spent his whole life one during what happened
to his mother She believes that there's someone out there
who knows what happened to her grandmother, and she is
hoping that one day she will find out. And that

(01:26:12):
is where unsolved mysteries leaves us all right. Update update
in nineteen eighty the article states that the woman found
by the railroad tracks could possibly be named Lula King. However,
that was only one source, and another source refuted the claim.

(01:26:34):
Based on newspaper articles from the time, it is theoretically
impossible that the woman found in Ellis was the grandmother
unless there was another unidentified woman killed around the same
time of her disappearance. That just isn't possible. I also

(01:26:57):
found several people and on Facebook and other sort of
like web sleuths that have suggested that the famous I'm
going to butcher this Canadian name sex cartoon woman in
the Well, which is another famous unsolved mystery, might be
a match. But no test has ever been done. There

(01:27:20):
are lots of blogs and Internet posts about this case,
but they seem to just kind of rehash a bunch
of existing information. No evidence or trace of her grandmother
has ever been found or confirmed. That's yr update. I
did a bunch of research that grave is still there,

(01:27:40):
it is still attended it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
You know. I think it's said that she doesn't know
what happened. Absolutely, it's just too bad that a psychic.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
Yes, yes, so there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
But unfortunately, back in that time, people could disappear very easy.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Actually, the amount of people who went missing during that
time frame, like are you not even missing? Jane does?
Unidentified people that have passed away, it was quite high.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
And well, people could disappear. They could just up and
leave too. I'm not saying that's what she did. I
have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:28:20):
Although I think it's impossible that her son was finally
old enough, her oldest son to kind of take care
of the other kids, and she left an abusive marriage.
That is possible.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
We have no idea, But I'm just saying, like people,
it was easy. You could literally go three hundred miles
or whatever. Yeah, disappeared, no one knew, no one knew
who you were. You could leave everything behind or something
terrible happened and no one's ever get There was no
way to identify people.

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
Yeah, maybe she really did have an appointment that day
and something happened and she got sick and you know,
passed away, and they had no way to identifire. I
don't know, but it's a. It is a. We are
three for three on tonight's episode. All right, guys, all right,
well that is our recap of season three, episode fourteen

(01:29:16):
of Unsolved Mysteries. As always, you may exit stage right
if you don't want to hang around for our chitty
chet time. But now is the time that I get
to ask Ben a silly question, Benjamin, what is your
favorite ride at Disneyland?

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
And why? Uh? Simple?

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
What was Tower of Tear?

Speaker 1 (01:29:46):
I know that was very sad for you. Not Tower Guardians,
because it's still cool. That is what that is. Actually
the biggest upside of going to Disney World, yes, is
that you can ride Tower of Terror.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
But they've done a good job with the guards.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
It's just not Tower of Terraf.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
So yeah, it was that one and Splash Mountain, but
Splash Mountain is not any I haven't been on that
one since they've remodeled it, so I have no idea.
I'm sure it's still yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Yeah, we had a yeah, yeah, I've heard it's good.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
So but yeah, I mean Tower and why I just
do it draps you like it's just a sudden drop.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
It is such a cool ride.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
It is the best ride. It's just fun. Yeah, hands down,
all right, what's yours?

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
I have got two? So I remember Twer of Terror
is my favorite, or not two of Terror, excuse me,
Splash Mountain. But that is nostalgia because I remember to
this day the first time I went to Disneyland. I
think I was under five years old, and I was
wearing a black and white checkered skirt with a matching

(01:31:06):
shirt and had like little cherries on it. And my brother, Hello,
Douglas is a scaredy pants, make scaredy pants when it
came two Thrill rides not his thing when he was
a kid, and he still doesn't do haunted houses. Let's
just put that out there.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
But you're just throwing your brother under the bus like that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
So my dad had to take my brother. I have
to ask him where they went. They went and did
something else that did not involve Splash Mountain. But I
remember standing on the bridge staring at the waterfall drop
and being just like, yes, this is like everything I've
ever wanted in life, and then getting to write it.

(01:31:52):
So the fact that you know a simple like twenty
five years later, because I'm only thirty years old that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
I, okay, that's cute.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
No, but like, okay, thirty five years later, I get
to like go experience that with my family and my
kids is awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
I think a lot of Dissiline is nostalgic A hundred.
I think I should get older.

Speaker 1 (01:32:19):
It's just yeah. And then Space Mountain because I remember
writing that for the first time too, and literally with
the fact that it's pitch black and the stars, it
felt so incredibly immersive in feeling like you were just

(01:32:44):
floating in outer space with that, or that you were
like experiencing that. So I still remember to this day
writing for the first time. In fact, I was really
bummed because for a couple of years they changed it
to like, weren't they doing something with like Aerosmith or
something for a while, no Star Wars, Star Wars, So

(01:33:05):
I think they did something with Arrow with aeros is
an Aerosmith. I think they did something for a little
while with them too. You're thinking of I know what
I'm thinking of, but I think that I'm gonna have
to look it up. But I think it changed a
few times. But then they changed it to Star Wars,
and I was like, nobody wants it to be Star Wars.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
Some of us liked it, mm no, but everyone wants
the old because they liked the nostalgia.

Speaker 1 (01:33:32):
It's just really cool. It's an indoor rollercoaster and it's
pitch black. You cannot see where you're going.

Speaker 2 (01:33:39):
Yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
And when you're going up the tunnel and it like starts,
you're not spinning, but the lights like and it feels
like you're like boom boom boom bom bom boom. It's
the coolest feeling in the world, the coolest. I just
I love going to Disneyland. I love getting to Like
we've been taking our kids because we live so we

(01:34:01):
live close enough to drive there in you know, an
afternoon or I guess in a day, and taking young
kids at Disneyland seems like the biggest throwaway of money.
But as a parent, getting to see the magic through
their eyes and to get to experience those things with
them is it's life changing.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
It's a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Yeah. So yeah, all right, guys. Well, we'll report back
next week on our amazing adventures as we look for
hidden mickeys and make ourselves sick with eating the most
amount of chios that we can possibly consume in three days,
and then we will be back again to tell you

(01:34:49):
about another episode of Bye

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