Lost Love, Murder of Stanley Gryziec & Computer Wiz Kevin Poulsen

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody, I'm Sierra and welcome back to another episode
of The Unsolved Couple, where every week Ben and I
recapt one of your original gateway drugs and the true
crime Unsolved mysteries and we're live.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
We're live.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah, Well, was that helpful that I said that?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm appreciate that you.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
How are you, my love?

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm good. It always feels weird starting out like how
are you? You know how I am? I know how
you are?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
We do talk when we're not recording to each other
together as we and find out how each other are doing.
You know, we check up on each other once in
a while. Yeah. Yeah, I give you a call from
the kitchen and say, hey, what's going on?

Speaker 1 (00:59):
I have called you from the bedroom?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
How you west?

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Did that?

Speaker 1 (01:01):
You bring me something? Because I don't want to get
up and get it. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
We see each other in passing and say hello, I
have a question for you. Okay, I have an answer
thirty five?

Speaker 1 (01:15):
How do you think the car ride home from the
Coldplay concert?

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Win? Well? That blew up.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
We are talking. The whole world is talking.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
This.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
This brought a nation together like nothing I've seen before.
But left, right or center we're all all and just
I know I've said this before. We do record a
few weeks ahead, So do not please think that we
are just like so far removed from reality that we're
like catching the tailwindow things.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
We're trying to bring it back in a few weeks. Yeah,
let's cases, let's open this week faded out. We want
people to re talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
But I was thinking about that today. Earlier, I was
just scrolling through Instagram reels and anyone as social media
now like every meme, every reel is just roasting these people.
And then I thought, did they come together to this concert?
Like drive together?

Speaker 2 (02:12):
It doesn't matter, And how was.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
The car ride home? How uncomfortable with that? Because you
know at that point it the reel didn't drop into
or the footage and drop obviously probably until after the concerts,
so they knew at that point a while they were
on borrow time, a while in the world of instant
social media was like less than a day.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, okay, but I'm saying, you're at the concert, this happens.
Both of these people significant others most likely did not
see it right away. No, So he's driving home, about
to enter his house and thinking, my wife doesn't know yet. Yeah,

(02:56):
but in the morning, well you know what, maybe you
know what I think is he thought maybe this won't
blow up, and there is because what's the chances, what's
his chances of a something crazy at a concert going viral?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
If they had not reacted that way, we would not
know who those people were.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
If they had just turned to each other and pretended that.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
I'm not trying to give advice to people out there
being active adulterers, adult adulteresses.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I don't know something like that. Hey, I'm glad. I
just goes to show that sometimes God has a really
funny way of just kicking you with karma. Because here's
the thing, you cheat on your spouse, you deserve to
be ousted, and you're your piece of garbage, period. And

(03:55):
his story and they both cheated on this. Are were cheating?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Well, you're running a company and you're running nature department.
It shows that your integrity already is questionable at best.
But I think you brought up a good point the
other day when I was telling about this, we were
laughing at it. Is what were you saying? Do you
remember what you were talking about?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
I don't remember that.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
This just goes to show that we really need someone
to reboot the TV show Cheaters.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
That's right. It just goes to show that we still
as a nation are really into catching people that are
cheating and we're all about ousting them. Yeah, but we
want a real show.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah. So I spoiler alert in case no one has
googled this. I thought Cheaters was wild. It was one
of those junk TV shows. If anyone doesn't live here
or anyone else, Yeah, it was like take Cops. So
it was like person point of view and they would
call into this show and they get on TV saying
I think my spouse is cheating on me, and they

(04:57):
claim that they hired a PI and they'd catch them
and like then the spouse would show up to the
hotel room or the dinner or the casino and chaos ensued.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
It was it was Jerry Springer.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
It was Jerry Springer meets Cups.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, like going to find out it was fake.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
It was all fake and staged.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
I did read there was there was several ones that
were true. Yeah, you know, people would call and say
this and they would do it. But if they didn't
have enough or nothing did happen, yeah, they would just
make it up yeah, and they just pay people to
do it. Jerry Springer was the same way. Yeah, you know,
so it was, but it is clear that we all

(05:42):
still thrive for that type of because everyone here, that's
why everyone got on board. Yeah, well one we got
on board with this Coldplay thing because of who they are.
They're rich and powerful people, right.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, there's a single wing around that. It's like the
top of the summer is always like time for us
to sacrifice a millionaire somewhere, right because of all of
the tragedies that have happened to like uber wealthy people
right at the peak of summer, where it's like, Okay,
now everyone can go about like their day because we've
we paid homage to whoever we need to.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, but we but everyone got into this because we
loved that this did oust two cheaters, and so there
is still a market for it. Which I'm kind of
excited about that new documentary on Netflix.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
On Tuesday by the time this one comes.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
It's True train Wreck, which all of those are great, Yeah,
they've been awesome so far.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
And it's the PI Moms, which I know nothing about,
but I'm in it because seeing them.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
On TikTok's I'll be interested to see if it's some
of the people that I've followed on TikTok that do
this for a living.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
I don't know, but I'm here for any type of
craziness that shows people's crazy relationships. And I think we
all want to see it because then we all feel
better about our relationship.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
And we say, yeah, that affair, right, you feel All of.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Us guys right now are saying this is wonderful. This
guy made us all look better because one we don't
now we don't listen to Coldplay and we don't take
our cheap our girlfriend to a Coldplay concert. Yeah, so
I'm better. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
And hey, and anyone who's ever worked with a terrible
HR person, everyone knows that person. You are actually the
reason we need an HR part because you're a deplorable
human being who's power hungry.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
No nobody likes HR.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
And then you get to see this, you're like, oh, yeah,
see my instincts are right about you.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Sorry, sorry to any HR.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
South. Okay, so I will start us off to We've
got three stories we are recapping at season three, episode
four of Unsolved Mysteries, and I'll start us off with
Ben's favorite theme lost love.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, okay, let's just get nicky.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Wade is searching for Charlotte Harrington. Harrington hair Harding, That's what.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
I'm looking for her, whom.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
She became close friends with at a children's hospital in
Los Angeles, California, back in nineteen sixty nine. That year,
seven year old Nikki was admitted to have surgery to
remove several large tumors.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
From her throat.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
At first, obviously she was scared to be away from
her parents. Like they show the Reactor, she was full on,
like checked in and like there for a long time.
This was not like outpatient surgery. They did not go
into details about everything because so in ninety six, it
might have been ninety seven, I had a tumor removed

(08:55):
from my thimus plan and I think I was in
the hospital for several days afterwards. But it seems like
this was pretty severe. So she becomes friends with another
eight year old girl who's was diagnosed at the time
with a rare form of cancer and scheduled to also
undergo some sort of surgical procedure. They started talking and

(09:19):
soon became friends and spent all of their time together
at the hospital awaiting their surgeries. It sounds like both
of these people's parents still obviously had responsibilities during the day,
so these girls were left at the hospital alone. And
I believe it appears that they shared a room together

(09:39):
at least or something reenactment does yeah at the time,
for uh, why can't I spell this name wrong? Chariots,
That's what I think. I wrote these notes weeks ago.
I should have read through them again before I sat down.
I watched the episode of but I did not read

(10:00):
through my notes as it's. As it neared for her operation,
she was forced to undergo a set of painful pre
surgical treatments. Nicki felt bad for her as she seemed
to be in constant pain, but noticed that she was
tough and able to get through the treatments. One night
she went in for her operation. When Nicki asked her

(10:22):
mother about it, she learned that whatever this operation was
was going to prevent her friend from being able to
have children of her own. This made her feel super
sad because they had talked at some point, as I'm
sure girls do late at night. They're in this situation
together about both having a desire to someday girl be

(10:44):
married and be a mom. Right, so she goes into
her friend's room or her bedside table shortly after her surgery,
and she makes a promise to her. She makes a
prompt miss to her friend that when she has children

(11:05):
of her own, she will name one after her. Okay,
after chariots and five weeks go by, So these girls
were in the hospital.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
For five weeks.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
That's a long time, so long I know. They had
to say goodbye because one of them was being discharged.
Nikki's operation was a success, so she was able to
head home. However, Charrett had to remain in hospital for
further treatments. Before leaving, they took pictures of each other

(11:39):
and agreed to try to stay in contact. Now this
is obviously before any sort of social media. You made
a phone call two miles up the road, it was
going to cost you an arm and a leg for
long distance, so this is not surprising. But shortly after everything,
both the girls ended up going on to age up
a little bit and one family returns to Los Angeles.

(12:02):
Another family moved to New Mexico, and they obviously over
times slowly lose touch. In nineteen seventy five, Nicki moved
back to the La suburbary that they had been from originally,
and she called every single hearting in the phone book
to try to locate her friend. No, that's all you

(12:22):
could do, right, No love. And in nineteen eighty three,
Nicki married and took the last name of Crowder, and
in nineteen eighty seven she gave a birth, gave birth,
gave a birth, gave birth to her daughter, whom she
named after her friend, and is hoping to reunite them

(12:45):
so that she can ask her to be the god
mother of her daughter. From my understanding, in the Catholic church,
that's where godmothers and godfathers comes on. They're named at
a child baptism, usually shortly after birth. But we learned
that this girl's a couple. She's like several years old

(13:06):
or six, seven, eight years old, and she would like
to baptize her daughter and name her friend as the godmother.
She's looking for help finding them, and that's run self.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Mysteries leaves us all right. Update Salved solved.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
So it turns out her friend was living in Oklahoma.
She and Niki were reunited at Nikki's house just ten
days after the original broadcast, and on October twentieth, nineteen ninety,
she stood next to her friend to be named the
god daughter godmother of her friend's daughter's baptism.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Great story, there you go. It's a good story.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Is a heartwarming story.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, I mean it's a your story of these girls
clearly had a you know, a good connection in the hospital,
and it's awesome that she never forgot it's been.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Five weeks going through one of the hardest things that
probably as scary and all of this stuff, and it
formed a bond and hopefully they I tried to look
to see obviously these people are just normal, regular everyday
people with no record and like fame or fortune of
any way, shape or form. I couldn't find anything, whether
they had continue to stay in contact with each other

(14:20):
or whatever. But I'm sure that she spent that much
time going through looking for her and kept a promise
from when she was a child.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I was gonna say, just for her to even as
easy as a six to seven year old to make
a promise and then kind of like, yeah, I did
that well that long ago, but you know, I was
a kid, and to just shrug it off as that.
But to even when she did that what eight years old,
I don't know, just still say no, I'm going to

(14:48):
keep that promise. Yeah, at the show's character right there. Yeah,
so question, Yes, I was have you ever did did
you ever have like a childhood friend that you lost
contact and still.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
To this literally just stole the question that I have.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Set for next week. For next week.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, because I made our notes for we're recording twice today,
a little peek behind the curtains, and so I always.

Speaker 5 (15:14):
Like pre look for our stuff, and I wrote that
down as next week's questions.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
So I mean, I can answer it now, or we
could switch it. I can switch the question. Let's answer
that at the end of the podcast today.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Okay, Yeah, I want that to be our question at
the end of the day. Let's that.

Speaker 6 (15:39):
Let's put a pin in it, Okay, okay, and we
will get back to that at the end of this episode,
and I'll just switch on my notes so I don't
end up asking you the same question.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Sorry, I stole your question, but I was just that.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
No, I think that's perfect. Probably opened, yes, you probably
should have. You were so enthralled by my lost love story.
I was, you know, just I'm so into what you're
being in actively.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Indeed, I'm sure you got some updates or you got
something you want to tell the people. While I drig in.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
My notes, Okay, fair enough, I can scroll down and
see here I wrote down the places that we have
been downloaded in the last couple of weeks. North Bergen,
New Jersey, deed Side, Flintshire. That's definitely not how you

(16:33):
say that, but it's in England, Flintshild.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Did you just try to say a word wrong with
an English accent? Did you think that if you.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Said it, that's Australian?

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Good mate, Let's put another.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
You say that's try to be in the mindset of
being in Harry Potter to be like.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
Let's just not did you know, let's just not try
to do it. Sence, we don't do accents in Arkansas?
Can we do Arkansas? Evansville, Indiana?

Speaker 2 (17:08):
I know where that's at, Do you really? Yeah, of
course I do. I lived in Indiana for two years.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
But Indiana is like a whole state.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
It's a whole state, I know, and I was all
over that state. I never did go to Evansville though.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Boise, Idaho been there, Silver Springs, Maryland not been there,
Older Colorado not been there. I've been there.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I'm just gonna tell everyone where I've been. Nevada Nope,
not been there either.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
That's not where the Lord and Savior was Bethlehem. What Pennsylvaniavania, No,
I haven't been there either.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Denver, Colorado, been.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
There, just the airport.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Sorry, guys, I've been to Denver. My best friend from
like childhood lives there. Spring Texas.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Nope, nope.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
And Milton Ken's.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Oh this is going to get good, that's what Ken's
Ken's Milton, Yeah, Sierra was really excited today. Did you
tell the people where we've been downloaded? What country? Yes?
I have that.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Next you are giving away all of the secrets.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Of next week. Yeah, well it's not next week, it's today.
Who cares?

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Where were we downloaded?

Speaker 2 (18:26):
I don't know, say it Pakistan.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
We're actually downloaded a few places in Pakistan, and I
put them on next week's read because I have.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
A couple of the government put us on the no
download list.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
They were like, these people are out of control.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Okay, okay, hold on, hold on, okay.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
We're going to go.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
I needed to get my drink.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
All right, Okay, you're ready for the next story. This
is a weird one. And I'm apologized for any kind
of confusion that comes out of this story because the
way Unsolved Mysteries told it was told.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
I had to watch it twice.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I have watched it three times, three times, and there's
still parts that just don't make any sense. So anyone,
if you come out and you say, what was he
talking about? Fair question? Yeah, I don't know, and I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
And I will say I told Ben this the other
night when we were talking about like just how difficult
this one was. Sometimes you are the narrator telling the story,
controls the narrative. I mean, right, then, that's why the
whole point, and so sometimes I think that makes things
a little I have.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Four four pages of notes too, just to try to
tell the story.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Okay, hopefully all right, all stay silent then.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
So you can No, we're gonna, we are gonna. I'm
gonna try to get through this as fast as possible,
so or at least try to tell it. Anyways, Rome,
New York, we hear about a man by the name
of Stanley Greasi. He owned a liquor store and a
gas station. They were connected together. He Stanley owned the
liquor store. His brothers Peter and Bernard, they ran the

(20:18):
gas station, and Stanley and his wife, well, Esther, Sorry,
I apologize.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Could there be any more of like an older person's name?

Speaker 2 (20:29):
I love it. I love older people's names. I think
they need to come back, and we just we got
to start with you.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Clarence, Clarence.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Those are my grandparents' names, and they're great names. But
I actually do love the name Clarence. I love that name.
It's awesome. So I love my grandpa. He's a good man. Yeah,
he was a good man. Still I still wear his
belt buckle almost every day. All right. So Stanley ran
the liquor store, his brother ran the gas station and sale,

(21:02):
and Esther lived right next door to this little business
that they owned. Right So, November sixth, nineteen seventy six,
we hear that they're getting ready for bed. They're doing
their nightly routine. Stanley's upstairs turning on the bath for

(21:26):
his wife, Esther, which is I'm sorry, Is that the
sweetest thing?

Speaker 1 (21:31):
I thought that was adorable, that this was like their
kind of nightly.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Roots nightly routine. He's up there, he's turning the bath
on for his wonderful wife. He's getting it ready for
she's down there, and she starts walking through the house
and it's just doing her checkup, you know which, I
get it. We have a nightly I have a nightly routine.
I go through all the doors twice, and I make

(21:55):
sure everything's turned off with my OCD, make sure like
the oven's turned off and the stoves turned off and
all that stuff, and all the lights are turned off.
And she hears something and bang, two guys come bareling
through the back door at gunpoint. They holt, they throw
her down, and they hog tire her.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Literally terrible reenactment. I felt bad because this is obviously
this worst moment of this woman's life being played out.
And I laughed so hard. You laughed the reenactmentes you monster,
you people. It was terrible.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
All the reenactments are terrible. In this next episode's reenactments
is just awful.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yes, continue, did you notice when they threw her down? Though?
What the biggest problem I had?

Speaker 2 (22:46):
I can only imagine. What is it? The kitchen? Oh,
Sierra thinks that the kitchen had carpeted.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
I don't think I know that kitchen was carpeted, do
you remember that? And I think the bathroom was carpeted
during the scene where he's filling up her bathtub.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Do you remember the apartment we had and I know, yes,
they had carpet in the bathroom. Terrible, it was terrible.
It's terrible. Don't carpet your bathroom.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Don't carpet in your bathroom, your laundry room, or yeah,
your kitchen.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah. So anyways, they come in, they hogti esther in
the kitchen and they robbed them. She they say she's deaf,
she has hearing aids, but they knocked out her hearing aids,
so she can't hear anything going on. All she can
do is literally feel the vibrations. And they were in
the house, so terrifying. Yeah, they're in the house for

(23:41):
forty five minutes and they just No, I haven't. I
can't say that I have.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
I think it would be awful.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
That's it's not a comfortable position. Your shoulder blades have
got to be at that point, just in utter pain.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Okay, so.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
What is funny you're laughing? I'm not laughing into this
story getting the giggles over there.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
I'm not laught at this story.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Okay, do you care to share with the class? Oh?

Speaker 2 (24:16):
I don't know what I'm laughing at. I don't know,
all right, but.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Oh no, I just get through this, all right?

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Can we get down as serious? Let's get down to
brass tacks, all right? They hogged out of this lady.
They leave her there. She doesn't know what's going on.
She hears all the vibrations, it finally stops. She thinks
they've rummaged through her house for forty five minutes. She's
able to finally get free, literally wiggles herself out of
this hog tig. Which that's wild or they didn't do

(24:58):
a very good job. She does say while she's laying there,
she did notice that when he went to hogtire, he
laid a pearl handled gun on the ground as he
hog tighter, and then he picked it up and went.
So she gets free, starts looking in the house, and
what does she find? Her husband in the dining room
shot dead. Right, So obviously they call the police. The

(25:23):
police come in, They kick everybody out, They searched the house.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Do you think from the jump the fact that they
hog tied her but then killed him is weird?

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, but you just don't know what happened. Did he
try to fight him he's an old man. Well he
was in his so I looked at he was fifty nine. Oh, okay,
he's not.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
He was like old.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, they showed it. He was. I think he was
fifty nine. I wrote it down because they ended up
showing something. Or when I did my research, they told
me how old he was. So it's not like he
was an eighty year old guy.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Okay, I mean I guess then, yeah, a fair he
could have at least tried to hold stand his ground.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Think, we have no idea, no idea, And maybe that
was the fact. Maybe they did come in, they hogged
at her, and they went there to kill him, and
yeah and find something.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, because we learn real quickly even though they ransacked
the crap out of the house.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Well, so they tell us the police come in, they
do a search, They do a thorough search, but not.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Really and thorough.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yes, yeah I did. And they try to say that
they don't notice anything missing, even though they don't let
the family in the house while they do this. All
that was missing was two beer bottles from the fridge, which, dude,
you're a douche. You ransack a house and then you
just take the man's beer.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Do you know that the gold steak killer used to
do that.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
I don't even know who the gold stake killer is
or what that is. Okay, honestly, I'm going to guess
it's someone San Francisco. Golden State, right, Golden State? Bridge Am?

Speaker 1 (27:04):
I right?

Speaker 3 (27:05):
Am?

Speaker 1 (27:05):
I right on that California.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
It's not San Francis not San Francisco. No, what would
you call him the Gold State?

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Because I think he was up and down the.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Corridor, you know what. I kind of don't care, all right,
she was feeling saucy, I am. So they do an investigation.
That's what they find. They do an autopsy and they say,
guess what, Stanley, he was stabbed to death in the heart.
And the wife says, I don't think so. I saw

(27:33):
a gun. I saw him lay a gun down as
he hog tied me. That's terrible and anyways, terrible story.
The wife ends up literally dying within two years after this.
They interviewed two of the kids and they say, this
just broke their mother's ark. They said they their marriage
was beautiful, it was perfect. They love each other, they

(27:55):
cared for each other. Clearly, the man at fifty nine
is still drawing his wife's bath the evening. I would say,
he's a good man and a good husband. Yeah, and
he just runs a little business with his brothers. Come
on people, all right. So she ends up dying literally
within twenty months. They say they just broke her heart
and fair something terrible happened and she lost her spouse

(28:19):
because of it. So they say he he died of
this stab wound, and the wife and the kids are like,
that's not.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
It doesn't track.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, So but investigation goes nowhere, so they push and push,
they end up exhuming the body, doing another autopsy. Guess what,
he wasn't stabbed, he was shot?

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Was How do you?

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I don't know. How are you someone that does autopsies
and can't determine between a stab wound and a bullet.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
They're very, very very different thing.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
I don't know, But I just expect someone that does
autopsies to know. Yeah, call me crazy, I don't know. Yeah,
you're an.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's what I'm And here's the thing, rightfully, so I
think you missed the part too. The family was let
back into the.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
House, so yeah, I was that. I'm sorry I did.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, okay, So just because I remember it, the kidd
were left let back into the house after they did
their initial sweep in their quote unquote thorough search, and
they literally were just kind of cleaning up and dropped
something on the ground and went to pick it up
and noticed a casing, a bullet casing in the dining

(29:42):
room under the table ride his rain right his day
sitting there. And that's where I believe the father was
found dead.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
He was found the diner. I apologize people there, they
found this case casing. Yeah. The next day after the murder,
the sun comes in, he f this case and he
puts it in a plastic bag, calls the detective from
the Rome police department. Yeah. The detective comes out and says, hey,
oh thanks, puts it in his pocket and says, hey,

(30:11):
don't mention it.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
That's not mention this to anything.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
And then the autopsy comes out and says, oh, yeah,
he was stabbed. I'm like, but you have a bullet case.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, and you have my wife that says that she
saw a gun.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
So it was clearly from the beginning this was not done.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
This was the entire investigation was is this.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
A tiny little town? Did you look it up?

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Okay, New York I did. Look, I will take a look.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Because to me growing up in a small town, the
Myrtle Creek Police Department, where basically I could have seen
them be in this way, they were useless.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, so anyway, but they did at least establish it.
He was shot to death. But the case goes cold,
so we got nothing to go off of. Okay, okay
until March of nineteen eighte oh.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Population is thirty two thousand as of Now, well that's.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
A little town. I mean it's not little.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
But I mean Myrtle Creek has three thousand, That's what
I guess. I was picturing that.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
This was like, that's even a little bigger than your Roseberg,
bigger than yeah Roseberg, but much smaller than the town.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
I grew Yeah. What year was this again? Uh?

Speaker 2 (31:19):
It was in the seventies? Hold, I think being he
said in nineteen seventy six. Yep, nineteen seventy six.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
All right, just continue, I'll see if I can find anything.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
All right, So, like I said, case investigation went cold
till March of nineteen eighty nine. A drug dealer comes
forward and he tries to tell the police, Hey, guess
what you know that murder Stanley gresik, I think I
might know more to that story. So he tells a

(31:55):
story about how he was working in a bar in
nineteen seventies and an associative is that he might have
owed money to I know this. I know people this
might come as a shock, but the drug dealers interviewed.
But he's of course, his face is blacked out and
his voices, you know, altered, altered. Yeah, you know, he does.

(32:20):
I think he probably doesn't paint the whole picture for us.
I know that might come as a shock to everybody,
but I don't think he paints the whole picture for us.
But he says pretty much, Hey, I might have owed
money to this guy. So he tells him. He's like, hey,
I got a job for you. I need you to
go and I need you to rob Stanley. He's got

(32:44):
a lot of money in there and I need you
to go in there and take it right. And he
did this a few days before Stanley was actually murdered.
So he drives him over there. He shows him the house,
and the guy says, hey, let's I might sling dope,
but I don't I'm not a burglar. I don't break

(33:05):
into people's homes. You know what great honor. I'm just
very impressed with your integrity son, you know.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
I guess here's the other thing to that, the fact
that this guy respected his boundaries after like saying I
need this done, and he was like, I'm good things
and it was like he went on as Mary Way.
That is to me, this whole story is bananas.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Well it's his story. It's his version. We only have
his version. He makes himself out to be someone with
morals and values. Trust me, if you asked me my story,
I come out a huge hero and like you're like, listen.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
I was at that Coldplay concert.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Listen, listen. I was there with my friends, was.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Choking on something and I was simply before.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
I was trying to give her them like that's what happened.
And then he asked me to kiss and I ducked
because I'm not going to kiss a girl.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
I'm trying to give her the Heimlich maneuver.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah. Yeah, she's the wheeze people. Okay.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
So yeah, So this guy gets driven over to the
house and he says, hey, thanks for the tour, but
I don't rob people.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, and the guy is like fine, yeah, I guess
he just even though the guy owes him money, He
just accepts that and takes him back to the bar
to sling some more shots. Yeah, okay, cool, that's the
end of his story. Yeah, so what that does do? Though?
At least the guy comes forward, he tells a story
to the investigators, they reopen the case and really start

(34:47):
digging into it. So then we get more to the story.
And this part doesn't make a lick of sense. Okay,
So they start going around and trying to re talk
to people and reinterview people. So they go talk to
the neighbor. Her name is Amy Scott, and she tells
the story that on the night that Stanley was murdered,

(35:10):
she let her dog out I think she says around
eleven or something.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, it was it was late in the night, dog.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Was wanting to get out. She lets him out, okay,
And as she lets him out, she sees a man
walking through the alley. Doesn't give a description, or at
least not to us she has interviewed. Then she says,
I guess she left her dog out there for thirty
forty five minutes, as one does, and there are our
dog if you leave her out more than five minutes.

(35:40):
She is pissed, and she lets you know. She sits
at our door and barks and wines until she gets
back in. There are probably is other dogs that go
out and to be out for a little while, yes, okay,
But then miraculously, she says, she comes back in thirty
forty five minutes. And what do you know, guys, what

(36:00):
is the odds? As she goes to let the dog
back in here, this guy comes back from the alley. Yeah,
what are the odds that you let your dog out?
You see him go, and then you let him back
in and you see him come back.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Well, I will say I believed her story because of
the next part.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
He drove off, Yes, I do believe it. So she
sees him get into a white Lincoln.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
And this is memorable to her because her dog. I'm
guessing she didn't have a fence in her front yard.
She didn't let her dog out in the backyard.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Looks like she let the dog.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Out in the front yard.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Well, if it's the alley, maybe.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
It's maybe, But the dog is now sitting in the
road of something.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
She says that Lincoln drives off. There was but there
was already someone in the driver's seat drives off and
almost hits her the dog, and she yells at him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
As one show, she screams at him. Yeah, so this
becomes a memorable moment.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
I agree with you. I just I'm fathom at the
just the uh, the ability that she saw him come
and go all by her dog. That is pretty good luck.
All right. This is the part that doesn't make any sense.
It makes zero sense. So days later, she says she's

(37:15):
pulling in. She says, it's around five o'clock. She pulls
into the bank to the ATM and people.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
To drive up.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Back then you had to get your paycheck and drop
it off at the bank. It just didn't get dropped
in there. So she's at the line for the bank,
and what does she know. She looks in a review
mirror and she sees a Lincoln Town Lincoln.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Car behind the same car.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
And she says it was the driver was the same man.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
He appears to be stalking her.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
But why why, I don't know why. It doesn't make
any sense. So she gets scared for some reason. I
don't know why. So she says, you know what, I'm
out of here. I'm out of here. She drives off,
high tails it. He follows her. There's a chase. It ensues,

(38:08):
and where does she go? The police station as good
for her.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
She show that's the right place to go.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
So she pulls. She pulls up in front of the
police station, runs up and tells the police officer this guy.
She then proceeds to tell us. They get in his
car and they drive around. They don't see the car.
I just don't say.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
That is kind of Banana's the cop to being like,
why don't you, as a citizen get.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Into It's just it was a different world back then. Yeah,
but why was she all of a sudden scared of
this car? I don't know. It doesn't make any sense.
And maybe it's because she finds out the day next
that her neighbor was murdered and she might have seen
the fair you know, maybe that was it. She realized,

(38:54):
holy crap, there was.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
A murder, and I may have witnessed the person right
next to holy now still where I live, because I
came out of the house, and maybe that was it.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah. Maybe I didn't put that together, but I just did.
Just now, just now. I'm slow, people, I'm very slow,
all right, But they say amy, and they don't tell
us how but Amy leads us, leads investigators, that's all
they say. Amy leads investigators to an a lady named

(39:25):
Patsy who owns a bookstore, Patsy Peak. Yeah, okay, I
they don't tell us how she leads her to Patsy Peak.
So don't ask that question. People don't, So.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Hold on real quick. We have a man that has
been murdered that owns a liquor store slash gas station.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
In his home.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yes, okay, we're now. It has been reopened due to.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
A tip that came in nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Then a man came in and said.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Hey, someone asked me and burl asked me.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
To burglarize this home. You might want to look into
this bar owner right with it? The guy owned a bar.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah. Yeah, they don't really tell us that all they
say that, but we learned that later.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
How Unsolved Mysteries tells it to us.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
At that same time.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
The neighbors saw someone that night in the alley going.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
There and come forward beforehand because she in the police car.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Earlier that we find out about the next lady, Patsy,
they did ask her. I'm going to tell you the
story of Patsy in a minute, and the investigators asked
Patsy in nineteen eighty nine, why didn't you tell investigators this?
And she said I did. Okay, that's right, and they
could not find any time.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
I'm just trying to catch people because yeah, I remember,
I washing to keep rewinding because I kept thinking I
was missing something. It kind of jumps back and forth.
So even though we get I'm just telling my body
was a zoomed the thing, the case was reopened. We
are now almost in a way going back because this
lady had the experience shortly after her neighbor was murdered.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
And I'm just telling you this people the same way
unsolved mysteries told us this. Yeah, they don't explain why
aiming or.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Even how all of these people are connected. The neighbor
makes sense, but the next witness does not.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I'm saying. The investigators went back and found this neighbor
and asked her, hey, man, did you see anything, and
she's like, yeah, I did see this. And this is
what we don't actually find out if she told the
investigators that back then or whatever. I mean, she drove
to the police, I know, But all of this we're
finding out. In nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Okay, sorry, continue.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
No, you're good. These are great questions and hopefully it
helps clear clear up people that are listening to this
story and they're like, hey, Ben, you're an idiot. You're
telling a story terrible, and that's that's fair. It's fair.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
I'm being inferable.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Exactly, I'm insufferable. Right now. Go read our comments and
you'll know what we're talking about. All right. So, like
I said, Amy led them to led the investigators to Patsy.
Patsy owns a bookstore. She tells the story that the
day before the murder, two men come in and she
gives a description of him, like one was this creepy,

(42:17):
skinny dude that he just looks like a serial killer,
and the other dude is this big idiot. So it's
a better description, but that's my description. Okay, you're welcome
again this story. So these two guys come into the
store the day before lo and behold that what are

(42:38):
they driving? A Lincoln Continental? And I wrote this down,
she says this. They interview Patsy and this is her statement.
People and try to get what I got out of this.
They'd been out of town for a while and hadn't
seen my husband in quite a long time. Then they

(43:01):
started reminiscing a little bit about when they were here
before and all that, and they told him they'd see
him again before they left, and then they left. Okay,
what does that make you think.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
That they know this person?

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Exactly? Yeah? What in the heck is going on?

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Story here?

Speaker 2 (43:26):
So Patsy is literally telling us that her husband knew
these men. You don't reminisce, that is the word she used.
I'm not using that word reminisced. Do you reminisce with
a stranger? No? Exactly, So how do you not know
who these people?

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Some coffee shop or something that this is the tourists
that come through every summer and you're like, hey, glad
you're back. Enjoy your state. She acted as if her
husband was somehow associated with these people.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, exactly what was their name?

Speaker 1 (44:02):
What's the information?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Why are we not interviewing the husband of the book store. No,
we don't get any of that information. It makes no sense.
And as I did in my notes right here, they said,
the investigators did say, why didn't Amy and Patsy come
forth with this information? And they said, we did, but
they could not find any type of notes or anything
interviews with these people. So they're a little confused. Then, supposedly,

(44:29):
these guys were all over and everybody saw these people.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Everyone was friends with these people too.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
But we don't even know if these two dudes are
actually the murders. They never tell us why these two
dudes are actually why they think they're the murderers. Yeah,
because they drove a Lincoln Continental and they saw a
guy in an alley. Okay, at least.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
You're worth talking.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
It's worth talking to him. I agree. These two men
were spotted at a local bar two or three nights
after the murder, and a witness saw them, saw them
talk to a man who we find out later was
the owner or some type of manager of the bar.

(45:10):
And he talks to him and he hands them uh
envelope the money and this guy the witness then goes
and says, hey, what's going on?

Speaker 1 (45:21):
If you was that exchange, would you then insert yourself
into that conversation?

Speaker 2 (45:25):
No? No, no, no, But this witness here's the bet again,
here's a great this is a quote. The witness goes
up to the owner or the manager and sets and
I quote, wasn't that so? And so so you're telling
me he knows who they are. You don't ask wasn't
that a stranger? Yeah? You only say, wasn't that Jim

(45:50):
Bean right there?

Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (45:55):
And he says, yeah, what's the what's the money for you?
They did a job for me, and now they got
to leave town. Okay, all right, a lot of witnesses
with some weird things.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
So weird that everyone seems to know these guys and
their name, but the police yet have no clue who
they are.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Yeah, I know, I know. So then we come to
find out that that bar that that guy own and
the guys were in, the liquor license was held by
Peter Stanley's brother. Okay, so Stanley's brother owned the liquor
license for this bar and Peter had died. But shortly

(46:40):
before Peter died, he calls Stanley into his room. Again,
this story is so weird, and we hear this from
his kids. They tell us eight months before Peter died,
he got ill. Stanley goes in and visits with him.
They have a secret conversation behind closed doors, and even

(47:00):
Peter and Stanley work close, they never spoke again. That
is weird.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
And here's I don't know anything about liquor licensing except
for the fact I have worked at a couple of
restaurants where you had to apply for a liquor license
and you held it, and as someone who served alcohol
at these establishments, the owners were very strict about the
rules because you mess up once, like give an underage
person a drink, you risk losing your liquor license, and

(47:29):
that's a huge part of your business. I was, and
maybe New York is different. It's crazy to me that
a man held a liquor license for a bar he did.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
I don't get how a man old owns a liquor
license for a bar, and they don't explain that. Just
do you want that explanation, You're not going to get it.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
So anyone knows any information about Maybe it's different from
state to state, because I only ever worked as a
different the seventies.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Maybe you're like, hey, man, you bid for a liquor license,
You're like, and then you hold it over people.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
I'm a real estate agent. I have a realator license,
but my license is held even though it's under my name,
under the brokerage that I work for, right, So I
don't know if because he had a liquor store. Maybe
he was the distributor for that count.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
It's just to me, this gets really complicated really quick.
Other than a robbery. We start to get these kind
of off the wall theories.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
We're just throwing theories out there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
So, and because the investigation was crap at the beginning,
this is what you have to do.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah. So after that senior conversation, Peter ends up passing
away four months later, it looks like Stanley then becomes
the owner of the liquor license. We don't really know,
but yeah, we do. Come then Robert Stack comes out
and says, well, in nineteen eighty two, the liquor license
for that bar was revoked, that barb was shut down,
and up until nineteen ninety that bar was still closed

(48:55):
and it was revoked and closed because of on site
gambling and drug dealing. Yep. So Robert Stack comes back,
Why was he murdered? Was it just a robbery? Did
have to do something with the secret conversation of his
brother with did he know too much about what was
going on at that bar? Illegal drugs going on, illegal gambling?

(49:20):
What happened? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Why was this poor man murdered? And his wife hogged
him because at the end of the day, correct me
if I'm wrong, it sounds like nothing was actually stolen
from the house except for a couple of beers.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah, and then I was thinking, why did they ransect
the house for forty five minutes? What were they looking for? Yeah?
Then we come to find out, Robert Stack tells us,
and when they reopened the investigation, a lot of evidence
had been just up and went missing from this case.

Speaker 7 (49:48):
Yeah, so what happened? Okay, that's where unsolved mysteries leaves
us any updates, update, nothing seriously ever, never solved. So
clearly you're family.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yeah. So the police did come out in the nineties
and ninety three and say they had a prime suspect.
He was the owner or some type of that bar. Okay,
so they were looking for tips to pretty much kind
of tie him to it. Nothing ever came, and it appears,

(50:25):
but of course, technically, because this is an open investigation,
the police haven't released anything. Their speculation that this prime
suspect is now dead and gone. So so there's would
come out. I guess they came out. So there's a
name by them. There's a man by the name of
Chuck for Brazinski, but Brasinski he the police came and

(50:54):
said he's wanted for questioning. We think they actually said
we think he's a prime witness or something. They want him.
He worked at that bar in the seventies. He was
wanted for questioning, but he was arrested in nineteen seventy

(51:15):
seven for drug drug charges. He jumped bail and is
technically still I looked him up, is still missing. Never
seen the front door.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Another unsolved mystery, with a serious mystery.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
This guy was wanted for questioning of some type. In
this case, he jumps bail, goes missing. They had a
prime suspect. They never released the name of that prime suspect.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
The owner of the bar though, the same guy that
we've been talking.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
About, and but I think he's passed away. They never
released his name. I dug into it. I could not
find It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
They didn't release his name because at the end of
the day, he's dead.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
So what I think is they pretty much said, hey,
we're zoning, we're honing in on somebody. And I think
they were just trying to build the case on that guy. Yeah,
And then I think, so.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
There is no one to bring charges on. Yeah, so
as of right now, and I think he gets into
this weird like great area. So here in America you
have the right to defend yourself in court, and if
you're dead, obviously that doesn't exist anymore, so they can't
like it automatically kind of eighty six is that, which

(52:29):
is really too bad for the family because their parents
were just at home getting ready for bed and at
the cost of what nothing was stolen.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
And that was everything I'd kind of read. So we
mentioned this podcast multiple times. The trail went cold. She
does an episode on this. I didn't listen to it,
but if you're interested, he does go.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Into like he takes each one of these. He takes
a handful of unsolved mysteries that are on Unsolved Mystery
and like goes deep. We talk about him for fifteen
twenty minutes, he'll do an hour plus.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, So if you're more interested in the story, he
dives into it. He might have some more details than
I have. I'm sure he does, clearly. But there is
a lot of speculation that this was some type of drug.
There is even some mob ties dropped out there or speculations.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Seventies who knows, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
It is, but it's all speculation. It doesn't make any
sense why him, but they The rumor is that he
did learn there was a legal activity going in at
the bar. He made threats to expose exposed it. I
expose what was going on at that bar, the drugs,
in the gambling, and he was killed for it, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
All right, okay, before we move on to our next story,
a few housekeeping things I mean to go over just
real quick. One One of the best ways that you
can support our little independent podcast is by following us

(54:10):
on Apple or Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Make
sure to check out our social media. We are on
TikTok and Instagram on unsoff Coupled Pod. You can email
us at unsoff Coupled Podcasts at gmail dot com. We
have a Facebook group called UNSULF Coupled Pod Discussion Group.
I'm hoping that we can continue to kind of grow

(54:32):
that and allow it to be a space for people
to talk and communicate and share fun stuff about unsolved mysteries,
especially the cases that we cover. We have a couple
of things going on right now. One We've got Ben's
costume contest going on. We're like a couple hundred downloads
away from hitting our first one, and then it goes

(54:55):
all the way up to bend dressing up as the
Goblin King from Labyrinth. We'd have to get an inst
same amount of downloads between now and like a couple
of months. So and if you really honestly enjoy this podcast,
if you could just take a few minutes to review us. Specifically,
the biggest one that allows reviews is Apple Podcasts. You

(55:16):
can leave a five star rating review, grab a screenshot
of that, send it to me on social media, or
you can send it to me in an email and
I will drop in a sticker and a little autographed
thank you note. I shouldn't say autographed because we're not
that cool. Assigned thank you note for me and ben agraph.

Speaker 7 (55:37):
And uh, well we're not cool, or yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
We are, we don't go to Coldplay concerts.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Fair And then the other way too, like let's say
you're on Spotify and so you can't really leave a review.
You can share us with maybe some friends at work
or social media group asking for review or not reviews
recommendations on a podcast. And if every single person listening

(56:07):
to this told two friends about this podcast.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Sound you sound like a chain.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
A chain, all of your wishes and dreams will come true.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Please share with ten friends.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
And if you don't share with two friends something, then
you will all get a paper cut and then get.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Lemon juice in the next time you cut your fingernails,
it will be too short.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
And that's just the facts of chain mail.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
So it's it's now been put out there, so it
is true.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Yeah, So if you're listening to this and you don't
want to mess with karma, please make sure to share
us with two friends. All right, So I'm going to
tell you the story of a man, actually a boy
at the time, called Kevin Poulson full stop. Ben doesn't
know this. I emailed Kevin, I.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Know you told me you email them. I'm curious. He
emailed me back, Oh great, Yeah, I hadn't asked him.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Hey, Kevin, if you're listening, high, thank you for emailing back.
I was very sweet of you. He I full disclosure.
I just email. I always like telling people and know like, hey,
we're going to be talking about you to the twelve
people that download us. So if you happened to come
across it, and I'd let him know we were just

(57:24):
covering it. Per the Unsolved Mysteries episode, he's we're gonna
find out later. Obviously this happened when he was a teenager,
so he has a whole life past that. But he
just emailed me back and said, like, thanks for letting
me know, so.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Can give you any details.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
I didn't. I will be honest, I didn't ask for
any details. But Kevin, if you're listening and you'd like
to come on and chitty chat about your experience, uh, yeah,
then you are, or even how like this show has
continued because now he's a he is a full grown
like man probably and it's like what late forties, early fifties.
I would be interested to know how this has affected you,

(58:05):
the fact that there are still people watching this episode
that highlight that was from so long ago. So Kevin
Polson grew up in Los Angeles, California, in the suburbs
of North Hollywood. His mother passed away when he was young,
and one of his friends describes him as very bright,
with great potential, but was painfully shy. He received his

(58:28):
first computer on his sixteenth birthday. Okay, and this is
like back in the day, this is not like that's legit. Yeah,
I can only imagine what kind of money that cost.
Those Those things had to be insanely expensive, I'm sure.
So very quickly, he adopts a pseudonym for his he

(58:53):
we find out he's going to be a hacker, right,
and he gets a pseudonym called dark Dante. Dark Dante, Yeah,
I love it. So he has this name on. And
I know nothing about hacking, you guys, other than like
MySpace and learning how to like build, like adding in

(59:14):
the coding of like what my favorite song was at
the time. I don't know anything about this kind of stuff.
But we're going to find out that he discovers a
telephone number for arpin It, which is a computer network
funded by the Pentagon.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
This sounds like War Games, that movie from the eighties? Yes,
is it? John cusec I think it was.

Speaker 4 (59:35):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
You think I've seen that movie. Moving on, It links university.
It links university and Think Tank computers across the country
by a telephone line. This is all way above my
pay grade. So take this for what it is. I
cannot explain the in words and outwards, but this was

(59:56):
not available to the regular public, I guess I could say.
So for him, this becomes and I quote a tantalizing challenge. Fair,
he's a sixteen year old with a computer. There's probably
some other tantalizing things sixteen year olds do nowadays on
their computer. But he was in da hacking and figured

(01:00:18):
out he had some access to some pretty insane information.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
He wasn't supposed. It's kind of wild to me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
It is insane to me. I think it's I do
think it is awesome too.

Speaker 8 (01:00:32):
So after he connects load them to the uh ARP
not telephone number, he realizes that he is hooked up
to military research at the University of California.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Found the Internet, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
The secret, secret Internet exactly, and he's connected to the
University of Cali in Berkeley. But he needs a password,
and it wasn't password spelled backwards, and it wasn't one, two, three, four,
five six, And this is back remember, Okay, So anyone

(01:01:11):
listening to this now we all live this experience where
your password has to have like x amount of characters
some capitalize da da da da, and we have to
change them like all the time, and it's annoying. But
this is back in the day when they just assumed
everybody was making good choices on the secret Internet.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Well, and it was also back when you didn't have
so many tries.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Yes, he gets a password, several passwords, no luck. But
then he tries the universal the university's initials. You see
B and click on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
That's a terrible pass or rock.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Yeah, I mean really, at the end of the day,
we should be talking to who picked that password. If
to me, this kid was able to get into that
this easy, it says he may be a little bit
of the problem, but you need to take a look
in the mirror and say we messed up.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Yeah, but also you're making this past sword and thinking
how many other people are even able to log in?
Computers are not a thing?

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Yeah, fair, And you're on a secret internet or a
telephone line and so they called it. Back then, this
was not considered the Internet. They were all hooked up
to one telephone line. So we get an interview from
someone that claims to be his friend. This woman interviewed.
I don't know if she if he didn't want to

(01:02:36):
date her or something, but she does not seem to
be a fan of him. Did you get that vibe
that she was like kind of being a little.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Snark about it. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
So Olson's friend is interviewed and says that he liked
having the power and liked to have power over other
people who he quote believe were beneath him. But you
don't say that about your friend, man, That seems more
like a bitter statement. Yeah. Yeah, So his activities are

(01:03:09):
soon detected by the University of California, Berkeley when he
slipped up and used his real name instead of his
pseudonym Dark Dante didn't. He was blissfully unaware and continued
his hacking activities, giving authorities even more AMMO against him.

(01:03:31):
So the morning of September twenty second, nineteen eighty three
in La the DA comes in and confiscate his computer
and a fellow hacker. We don't get any more information
about that guy or Gal is arrested, but because of
his age, they just kind of give him a slap
on the wrist and say don't do that again.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Stop doing this, stop hacking it. Stop.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
So early it was like, hey, what you're doing is
not just like Oh I got away with something. It
see illegal. Don't do it again. However, during the next year,
Pulson decides to just take the high school equivalcy exam
and move out of his parents' house to northern California.
But Dark Dante was not done yet.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
It was too tempting.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
He was just had evolved. So he's in his new house.
He continued to cruise, as I say, Robert sexas the
electronic Highway cloaked in a pseudonym. So dark Dante has
got his cape on in my mind, and he's cruising.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Down the dark alleyways.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
The electronic highway, which in my mind is a power
pole line, and he's just driving his little car and
having a great time. However, he was better. He'd learned
his lesson not to use his real name. But he
made another critical error. He didn't pay his storage bill.
So storage facility in northern California takes a stop at

(01:05:07):
a locker that is past due on the payments. So
storage wars. We will later find out. I don't think
at the time, they just seemed like the owner just
opened up and probably was going to take out whatever
and sell whatever needed to be done. He opens it
up and finds very quickly like this is not just
your standard storage unit stuff. There is a There is

(01:05:31):
codes and paperwork and what appears to be like pieces
of telephone technology. And all kinds of stuff. So he
calls the local authorities and have him come in and
enter in the telephone company investigator John Vaughn.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
What stupid, stupid?

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
No, is that a real person?

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
No? I think this some movie, some movie. So tell this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Blew my mind that the telephone company, because they're so obsolete. Now, yeah,
had a full on investigator, which makes sense, but it
is just so. John Vaughon comes in along with local
police and immediately they noticed that this has pieces of

(01:06:26):
electronic equipment, payphones, computer print outs, non published phone numbers
for the Soviet Union embassy. What and don't mind you guys.
This is during a time where our relationship with the
Soviet using is the Cold War.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
It is not good. This is if you have Russia stuff,
it's a problem. It's a red flag. Were worried.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
We're concerned exactly. I mean you are looking very quickly
at like full on. What is that called when you
work for the wrong when you live in America? But
you would be doing this spy spine spine, but that's
the fancy word for it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Yes, you're right, and I'm fancy on this. It's like
the English version, you know, English English. Yeah, you should.
I don't don't do it. Okay, so you should try,
but don't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Uh, that's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
That was that was Oh my gosh, that was so
that was so bad. The material so bad.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
It's not something that a normal person could accidentally come across.
It was clearly stolen property. And the locker owner was
listed as John Anderson, which turns out to be fake.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
However, John Anderson John.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Scotch that his name Poulson was on several pieces of
material that were inside the locker.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
He's really sorry with a comes the phone stuff, but
like covering his tracks.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Terrible, terrible, So dark Dante is no offense. John called
in and he's busted again. So authorities come in, They
apprehend him, and he agrees to a search of his apartment,
where they are astonished to find he has a complete
wire tapping facility in his spare bedrooms.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Listen, I'm not here to try to give terrible advice,
but if you are doing illegal things and there's an
incriminating things in.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Your apartment, you can say no to the search.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
You don't have to consent to the search. You could say.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
I'd love to help you out, boys, but I'm gonnag
you to come back with the warrant just so everything's
on the up and up, and then once they leave it,
you get rid of your wire tapping room.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
All right. I'm not trying to give advice, but okay,
don't do it. If you're committing a crime.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Don't do crime. That's actually our model.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
And some of these crimes I've learned, I might have
time for that, especially the blue collar ones. There are
people still billions of dollars and like ten years and
never have to pay it back. And you've served the
time for it. So if you magically find the money.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
That you hid.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Anyways, that's a podcast for another day.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
That's terrible. We should stop saying.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
The equipment in the room allowed him to not only
enter computer databases, but monitor telephone conversations.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Without the p wiretap people the government.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Yep. And it was connected to his computer and it
was so it was an unauthorized test set which could
be used to tap into private, unlisted phone lines.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Only the television company and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Legal that's the other thing, dude, You're lucky that Russia
didn't finance KGB is knocking at your door. What is
that joke from the office? Knock knock, who's there? The
KGBGB answer. We'll be asking the questions around here.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
He's so lucky that they were not aware that he
was potentially.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Doing that, that he was spying on them.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Yes, okay, So incredibly On top of that, this guy,
no joke, original selfie, sets up a camera and takes
pictures of him having broken into telephone company facilities. He's
like sitting at a chair looking very handsome. I should say,

(01:10:31):
by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Also, you're only saying that because he might.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Be a little smug in the pictures. But this man
set up a full on camera and took pictures of
him having broken inside high security telephone facilities.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Is that not nuts? He's the smartest guy in the room.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Touch a narcissism there, I'm gonna think you would to
document his crimes, his ego provides I did the phone
company with all of the evidence they needed to bring
to the FBI. The FBI agents determined that his acts
were involved and had escalated. They found evidence that pertained
the United States government computer system. He had transferred the

(01:11:13):
passwords of that computer to an electronic mail aka email
to other individuals. Investigators found that over the last year,
someone matching his description had also illegally entered Severn Northern
California telephone facilities using fake ID. They documented at least
three cases where he actually entered the buildings. Once inside,

(01:11:37):
he'd find the telephone numbers he could use to get
inside the phone company's computer system. He'd still manuals switch equipment,
and the test set that he'd had from in his
seat top secret spy room in his apartment was from
one of those break INDs. Poulson had also allegedly infiltrated

(01:11:58):
US military computer transmissions, obtaining classified army information. Authorities believed
that he had obtained classified information about the FBI investigation
of overthrowing the Philippine president.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
So he did commit espionage yeah, and possibly treason.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Yeah. In addition, he may have wire tapped and recorded
the phone conversations of a friend of his. We don't
get any more information about that. I'd love to know
more information on that, like why were you wire tapping
your friend?

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
It was a lady friend.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
No, his name is Sean. Oh, yeah, it was the
test that found in Pulson's apartment. Along among his possessions
was also the unlisted Soviet number. Led the FBI to
believe that he may be engaging in espionage. Throughout their investigation,
they learned that he had obtained secret clearance. Because of this,

(01:13:02):
his penetration of the US government, the US Army, oh
and obtaining non published numbers to a Soviet consulate. They
were concerned how far this was going October nineteenth, nineteen
eighty nine to investigator. Two investigations resulted in a nineteen

(01:13:24):
count indictment against this guy and two other fellow hackers
m H. They were charged with conspiracy, computer fraud, wire tapling, embezzlement,
theft of public property and records, and the two other
men were arrested. But Pulson fled.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
He pieced out he's on the un.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
The f would like us to know. They don't believe
he's dangerous, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
Just inquisitive and just listening to your phone. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
FPI believes that he has the potential to be dangerous
to law enforcement, government and the public because of what
he knows.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
They're all worried because he's smarter than that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
Exactly, this guy has out smarter the government, making them
look like idiots. All right, and that's where Unsolved Mystery
leaves us.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
All Right, they're looking for where is he?

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
Where's this kid?

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Help us get an update?

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Captured?

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
In March of nineteen ninety one, the FBI receives information
from an Unsolved Mystery viewer due that Paulson was living
somewhere in the Los Angeles area. FBI interviewed acquaintances of
his and one of them stated he had been seen
recently at a grocery store in the area.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Oh, that's because this market world story.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Agents then interview the market employee, giving Paulson's photo to
the employees. Okay, three weeks later on April, so now
we're we're going, we're getting another reenactment. Three weeks later,
April eleventh, around ten o'clock at night, Poulson goes to
his local grocery store enter night manager Brian Briggs.

Speaker 9 (01:15:12):
This is here, this is well, if you had an
opportunity to capture someone for the police, you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Are all kid.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
Brian is a night manager, but what he really really
wants to be is an FBI agent. It's not even
the Michael Scott's pseudonym for his When he does improv.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Uh, secret Agent Scorn.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
That's who this guy is. This is what reminded me
of the whole time. Okay, so night manager, Secret Agent
Brian Scorn recognizes him and immediately notifies the FBI. However,
the FBI was late to the game, so he's a
to leave the store before agents can respond.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Someone did, Scorn. It is so upset about it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Secret Agent Brian, Brian's scoring Brian Bridges. Okay, So however,
the telephone company investigator Terry is still.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
Is this guy who he's.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
In cahoots with the night manager. I'm guaranteed these two
want to be as.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
A phone invest telephone phone investigator. This is the most
exciting exciting that's ever gonna happen ever happened. And also
as a.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
Night manager of a grocery store in Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
No, I bet there's some wild things that happened at
night and going to be the top but capturing a
federal fugitives.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
So they learned that from that the FBI citing had failed, right,
the FBI had not gotten this guy. So he decides
on his own to survey the market, hoping that he
would return.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
I will say that's actually really smart.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
It seems like the FBI wasn't really that word. I
think that investing manager and this telephone investigator, this was
their number one priority.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
It's the only case on this man's desk.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
So eleven fifty pm he shows up, drives up parks
immediately in front of the grocery store. Once Polson is inside,
the telephone investigator Terry takes position near the front door
and asks the security guard to find Bridges, which is
the night manager. Until the Polson is in the store

(01:17:42):
target has been acquired. Believing that he would once again
elude capture, two store clerks make a daring move and
tackle this man to the ground. Call the security guard.
Guard takes it to the back of the room where
he is held, and in the holding he's like being
like legitimately held down like on the ground hog tiede

(01:18:04):
until FBI finally shows that this guy's like, dude, this
couldn't have waited until morning. We got called out of bed.
He arrives and places him under arrest. During the search
of Poulson, they found handcuff keys in an eyeglass case.
While in custody, he'd continuously claimed that as contact lenses
we're drying out and asked if someone could get him

(01:18:26):
his eye glass case.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
I will say this guy pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
Smart, pretty smart.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
He stashed a handcuff keys just in case if I
ever get caught.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
I bet he was regretting that he stashed it not
on his person, but that unlike Yeah, he was like,
I will never make that mistake again.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
This is my ruse. I'll tell people my contacts would
bother me. I need my glass.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
Imagine if the key like just your standard beat. Coop
was like, yeah, sure, man, I don't care hands in
that and he escaped again. That'd been great.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
A bad day for you, but smart for him.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
So in June of nineteen ninety four, so this is
going on for a while. Pull simply it's guilty to
seven counts of conspiracy, fraud, and intercepting wire transmissions in
connection with radio. So this I don't think this was
mentioned in mental Mystery. He was rigging radio station contest

(01:19:25):
win prizes. Awesome, he went a Porsche doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
So I watched there's a show justified, great show, and
there's a there's a guy in there. That's what he did.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
I bet it's based on this guy's thing. Probably So
April nineteen ninety five, he's sentenced to fifty one months
in federal prison. Only fifty one months.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
That's still a lot of time.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
Yeah, I mean for espionage.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
Well, the I mean, I guess they didn't bring those charges.
Charges were and.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
Why do you think the FBI maybe didn't bring those charges?

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
Did they? Just here's the thing. I'll give him this.
The FBI said, you're smarter than us. You come work,
do some work for us. Yeah, and we'll show you
some leniency.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
But in July nineteen ninety six he's released.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
So how long did he do?

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
He was sentenced in April nineteen ninety five, so a year,
and he was pleaded guilty in ninety four.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
Yeah, I mean, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
He was released and ordered not to use a computer
or the internet for three years. That's we're gonna let
you out, but you're not allowed to use a computer
or the internet.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
He's like, fine, we've got to get it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
We've got to get ahead of you before you back
to the technology.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
He's like, that's fine, I just need to go to
the library.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
Yeah. So, following his release, Poulsen reinvented himself and tried
to distance himself from his criminal past. He became a
journalist writing about cyber security topics. He was a contributing
editor for The Daily Beast, and in two thousand and six,
he created a computer script that helped locate over seven

(01:21:04):
hundred sex offenders that were using MySpace to try to
contact people.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
Clearly, this guy is smarter than most, and that's great
that he then started using that for good.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
Yeah. I mean, like I said, I found his email
because he's got like a LinkedIn profile. He's very actively
involved in the tech world.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
He was.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
Yeah, but so yeah, not on unsolved mysteries. I should
have looked at I think he won a few Porsches,
that's awesome and a lot of money. So what he
would do is he would block every so it's like
you're the twenty fifth caller. He would block every other
number and call him be the twenty fifth call That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
I love it, mo, I'm here for it. This guy
reminded me of the remember of the movie Catch Me
If you Can't Yes with Tom hank Aventure.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
The only problem with that guy is that he pretended
to be like a pilot and a surgeon and was
like putting people's lives in danger to get.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
Away with the FBI caught him and then they were like, hey, hey, Dode.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
You on Yeah, yeah, okay, so that is season three,
episode four of Unsolved Mysteries. And uh, let's get to
our question. Ben, all right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
I don't know what this is.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
You are the one that came up with the question.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Oh, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
Do you have a friend from growing up that you've
lost touch with that you would love to reconnect with
or someone, I guess, anyone in your life?

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Yes, okay, who is it? Oh you want to Italian?
Well it's a tough sigarette.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
I can't answer the question, not just This was not
a yes or no, this is a this is a podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
Oh I forgot about that. Yes. No, So there is
a good friend of mine. He lived lived in town
growing up. They lived in a trailer park. Well, I'm crazy,
but awesome guy. His dad, well they were living in
a trailer park. Was dad was going to optimology school?

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Interesting? I mean, yeah, you do what you like.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
Yeah, anyways, I became really good friends with them. Name
was Tyler Wilson. And you're gonna find out just taking
that name, you'll find out my problem.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
I was gonna say that information alone is going to
give you several.

Speaker 2 (01:23:17):
Hundred, Yeah, exactly. Tyler Wilson is a very common name.
So I kept in contact with him when I was
maybe fourteen fifteen, maybe a little younger. He moved instead,
finished school, got a job up in Winatchie, Washington, so
it was five six hours away. I even went up

(01:23:40):
there one time and really stayed the weekend with him
in that. Yeah, he had a great family, good friends
with Tyler. But of course as time goes on you
get older, he kind of was kind of We stayed
in contact a little bit, and I came to find
out I ended up moving to Indie and that he

(01:24:02):
ended up moving somewhere. His dad passed away when he
was nineteen twenty years old. Terrible, I know. And I
found that out and then I just lost contact. Yeah,
and I honestly actually have looked for him multiple times.
But the problem is is people my age, I am

(01:24:24):
not an active social media person at all. I don't
really have a footprint. I have a Facebook, but I
am never on it and I don't really use it
for anything.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
I do not have basically have it there for connecting
with like I.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
Did, and I kind of let that go that's why
I originally started it. I had a lot of friends
from Indiana and different places that I'd lived, and I
want to connect with them, and I have kind of
let that go. But I don't have an Instagram. I
don't have an X or whatever it is or anything else.

(01:25:00):
So but I remember when I did have a Facebook.
I look for him, but a Tyler Wilson. Yeah, and
I don't know where he lives now. I don't know
if his family stayed in Wanatchi or whatever. So it's
because he was a great friend, he's a good man.
But I have no idea. Did he ever get married,
did he have kids? Where did he end up? I
have no idea, no idea. So it's you know, if there's.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
An unsolved mysteries, there is a lost love story, maybe
contact the new unsolved mystery if.

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
They want to be you know. I just I wish
him the best and hope that I hope he's doing
good in that. Yeah. Anyways, that's my story. What about you? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
Actually, so I grew up in uh the tiny, tiny
little town of looking Glass, Oregon. I took you there.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
Yeah, it's a cute little town.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
I freaking love looking Glass. Look it up if you
are interested. There's nothing to do, there's nothing to see
but it. So my elementary school was only one grade,
like it was K through fifth and there was maybe
twenty kids per grade. So we got to know these
kids very well. And I actually, like, you know, matt

(01:26:15):
and Devin and Lindsay and Bethany like a lot of
my friends that I grew up with, Kendall, Amanda, like
if any of them are listening to this, like we
all through social media, even though I probably haven't seen
half of these people. I mean, I think I've seen
a few of them when I've gone back home for
the summertime. But Matthew was my first crush, and like,

(01:26:41):
I've seen these people. But there is one friend of
mine from this little looking Glass elementary school area. Her
name was Elizabeth, and because it was in second grade,
second or third grade, I don't remember her last name.
But her family owned the looking Glass Winery, which I
be honest, don't even think exist now maybe it does.

(01:27:04):
But she had this like beautiful home on a winery.
I don't even know, like because again I was so young,
like if her parents kept the winery going or if
they were just living there I don't remember it being
like a big thing, but they had this barn. She
had an older sister, Elizabeth, and I spent hours together

(01:27:25):
just she was my favorite person to like, and she
didn't live far from my house. And because I think
like Bethany and Kendall and Lindsay and Amanda, like I
know where all of them are now today, I've looked
for her several times. I don't remember her last name,
so that's half the problem. But I even tried to
look and see like families who had owned, like go

(01:27:47):
through ownership records and stuff like that. She moved away
shortly before I ended up moving. And this is again
there was no social media, there was no nothing, and
I remembering really devastated that she moved and then I
ended up moving away, so neither of us had a
connection back to looking Glass. And I think they've moved
out of the state of Oregon in general. And I've

(01:28:10):
tried to see if any of my looking Glass friends
had a friend named Elizabeth, and I can't find anything
about this person. But she was a real big pivotal
part of my childhood. Like I love spending time with her.
She was a great friend. Yeah, that's about all I

(01:28:34):
think from social media, like who I have not reconnected to?
And yeah, fair, I'm super active on social media. Between
this and my other job and me being very social,
it's very I actually know a lot of people who
choose not to have any sort of presence on social media,
and if they don't, like, I don't really know how

(01:28:56):
you find somebody then, and for what to say? Hey,
remember me, we were friends in elementary school.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
I know how you find how you go on Onsolve Mysteries.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
I just made that suggestion, and you said, now, I'm
just saying, well, if Unsolved Mysteries, the new one on
Netflix wants to do a lost love episode and they
want to find Elizabeth and Ben's friend.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
What was his name? Tyler Wilson.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
Tyler and Elizabeth, let us know we'd be happy to
be interviewed and you can help us find our friends.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
Join Ben and I again next week, where we recap
another one of your original Gateway Drugs and a true
crime on Mysteries. Bye,

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