Murder, Money, and a Superhero Dog — The Cases of O’Neal Moore & Chuck Morgan - Unsolved Couple

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody, I'm Sierra, and welcome back to another episode
of The Unsolved Couple. For every week, any night, we
kept one of your original gateway throughout some in the
true crime.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Unsolved mysteries.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
All right, let's kick it an.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's a great song.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
It is a great song. Did I impress you the
other day with my ability to sing that song?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I was impressed, but I'm always impressed by how you do.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
I don't think our kids were impressed. They seemed to
be annoyed at the music selection choices in the car.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
The other day. Our nineties, early two thousands.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Uh, yours the best? I told Ben, and I'm sure
he loves hearing this over and over again, that I
want to start a podcast idea.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sira has a lot of podcast ideas.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I do have a lot of podcast ideas, but one
of them is just born out of me and Ben
as married forty something year old people with jobs and
children listening back to the music that we grew up on,
and it's wildly out of pocket or it makes no

(01:31):
sense whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Extremely inappropriate or highly appropriate obviously, just what was the
song that we were listening to that we realized that
they're singing to each other, and she's singing because she's
just cheating on she's singing to the boys. She's cheating
on boyfriend with I.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Love You and I Need You. But she's singing that song.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
When I'm with my boo.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
All I think about is you that one. Sorry for
my singing, guys, I am not a singer.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
That was great. I love it, I love your so
I just it is amazing. One.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
I loved that song and I thought it was like
a love song, right, and then you listen to the
lyrics and you're like, oh no.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
It kind of is a love song, but to the
wrong person. But it's a toxic relationship love song.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
But then he.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Also like sing something about like west Coast, East coast,
you know you like this song's well anyways, I was like,
it would be really fun to do a podcast where
we listen to the music, which we couldn't probably play
most of it on the podcast because we don't own
any rights to it. We'd have to break it up
into pieces.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
They're probably going to get dinged for you singing that.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Probably they're going to be at least coming He's like,
I know exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
That that's my song.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
That's my song. She's yeah, she's better than me, so
good that I'm gonna have to get her to take
it down. But to break these lyrics down and then
just like have discussions about it is wild. They are wild.
It was some of like and I Love backshoot Boys
and New Kids on the Block and like Britney Spurs.

(03:20):
All of that was like my jam. And you listen
to some of these songs and you're like, whoa. Also,
most of the time these were like seventeen, eighteen, nineteen
year old boys singing to like fourteen and fifteen year
old girls.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
That's the best. Boys to men.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Okay, yeah, boys to men. They didn't even find it
is so bad some of their songs. One time, Ben
and I we'll get to the episode, I promise. One
time Ben and I went through. We ended up doing
this for like a couple of hours one night, watching
music videos. Yeah, boys to men, New Kids on the Block,

(04:00):
in Sync, in sync and all of that.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
It's so bad.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
They're so bad. They're so bad in the best of
ways and also amazing. Anyways, Okay, so any other fun
things to share with our friends before we dive in
the cat is with us today laye wherever he chooses,
So if you hear weird noises in the background, he's

(04:27):
on the table, right on the table, almost on the computer.
He's never laid here before ever. No, and he usually
freaks out when the.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Door is closed, but he doesn't care.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
He's insisted on being in here today and then joining
the podcast. So special guest is Vixen.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Do you have anything to share with them?

Speaker 1 (04:51):
No, I think I'm good.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
College football's bank. Professional football starts tomorrow. That's exciting, right,
We're all excited.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
We're all so excited. Yay sports and October is around
the corners. Ball is my favorite sports ball. I mean
huge congratulations to one of our top listeners, Taylor Swift,
for her engagement to a football player named Travis Kelcey.
She's a big fan of the podcast. They listened to

(05:23):
it together, So congratulations guys. That's all I know in
the football news.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
That's how football.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Uh. No, I'm glad that your all things are back.
I I have an inwar battle every year because everywhere
else in the entire United States and most of like
Canada and across the pond, everything above the equator is
starting to turn fall and people are posting about it,

(05:56):
and I keep getting messages from my favorite shopping sites
that their fall lines have launched, and I want to
buy all the sweaters and guess.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
What, you can't wear sweater.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Nope, it's still one hundred degrees outside, very hot here. Yeah,
so I'll be in a mood until it cools down.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
All right?

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Were we capping season three, Episode nine? Ben? How does
it feel back to be to our original love Unsolved Mysteries?

Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's I mean, it's the same. The only good thing
about this is because we've been doing it so long,
I was in a routine of how to do my
notes all that. That last one, with the three episodes,
it was very difficult because you're trying to tell a story,
but they're telling a story. Yeah, and they're already telling

(06:47):
the story. I don't know, it was just it was different.
It was harder to take notes on that. I had
to work a little bit more, and at least with this,
I kind of know what I'm doing, and yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I noticed that I actually we're I mean, I enjoyed
it because I got to do more creative writing. I
got to kind of be more of a storyteller in it,
and I enjoyed that, but it does take a lot
more time instead of kind of our format of how
we recap things.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
So yeah, yeah, all.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Right, Ben, it's going to start us off today, right.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Okay, and Ben, you guys, this was an exciting story.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Are you doing the first one?

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Okay, because as we were watching this, Ben is we're
going to get into it. But take it away, Ben,
I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Excited. It's an interesting word.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
It's an interesting word.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
All right. We're going to hear the story of Chuck
Morgan in Tucson, Arizona, right where we live.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
So I thought about trying to find his house and
doing a drive by.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, no ah. Anyways, so we get introduced on March
twenty second, nineteen seventy seven. Chuck Morgan is the president
of the Escro agency that he works for. He's in
real estate and other things.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
A lot of conflicts of interest happening right there. I
don't think you can do that anymore.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I mean, this is your wheelhouse. I don't know
anything about this industry and where there's even more involved
in this industry. You probably don't.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Anyone listening outside of the United States who has never
purchased a house before. An escrow company is like the
hub where they hold the funds. They do the tax paperwork.
I mean, they do a ton of the legal paperwork.
It's where you sign papers, it's everything's notarized. So it's

(08:51):
a huge player in the world of real estate. And
on top of that, when you pay your fees to
the Escro company, the Escro company pays is zero dollars
to the realtor. We make no money by hiring the
Escro company. So that's where the conflict of interest comes in.
When you're a realator. Also then potentially making money off

(09:11):
of that part of the transaction, things can get marking.
We're going to find out very quickly that that is
the case.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, I anyway, so then they just let me just
explain this to everybody again. Unsold Mysteries does a pretty
terrible job in telling this story, and they're very vague
in some things. They skim over some details. I'm just
going to try to tell it the way Unsolved Mysteries

(09:40):
tells it with as much clarification as possible. But if
you come away confused, it's probably my fault, and so
be it all right. They just dropped this bombshell right
at the beginning. He was a potential witness in a
state Land fraud case involving known organized criminal organations, a

(10:00):
known organized crime boss. That's what they say. That was
their quote. We get zero information on that case and
who the crime boss is.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, we never find out.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
So Morgan, on the morning of March twenty second, nineteen
seventy seven, is taking two of his daughters to school,
drops them off and is not seen. He disappears. Okay.
Three days later, his wife, Ruth, hears some noise in

(10:32):
the middle of the night. It's two am at the
back door. She opens the door because that's what people
do at two am. They open the door and her
husband's there. He is all disheveled. He's missing a shoe.
He has plastic handcuffs on his hands, remnants of handcuffs

(10:57):
on his feet. They say it was on one ankle.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
They were so when they said plastic handcuffs, I was thinking,
like the toys that you get as kids, you know,
those plastic handcuffs. Just in case anyone else has the
same thought track, I was like, well, who picks those
up with the dollar tree? Come on? But they were
zip tized, Yeah, at least.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, So I said he was missing a shoe. He
couldn't talk. He said that he'd been drugged with some
type of hallucinogen. So his wife like gets them in
the house, gets them on the bed. He won't talk.
She says, can you write? He writes stuff down, and

(11:38):
he tells her.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
So he was missing for three days? Yes, and she
didn't report her husband missing.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, I know you might have questions about that. Okay,
you're not allowed to ask that. Okay, I don't think
any of us are. That's it. There is so much.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, then that means she was well aware that he
was doing things he shouldn't have been doing.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Very possible.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Uh, your husband doesn't show, he drops the kids off
at school and is gone for three days, and you
never file a missing person's report.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
I don't. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
I don't had he disappeared before?

Speaker 2 (12:16):
I don't know? You're I don't know. Okay, this is
the same question I had. How have you not contacted
the police and file like? And why are you not
freaked out that your husband has been missing for three days?

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah? Either A it was common or B she knew
that this was a risk of his job, yeah, or
of his income.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
She's interviewed.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Oh yeah, I know. So she makes no sense while
she's been interviewed.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
No, she just is telling you these things. But there's
so many.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
More questions, and she's telling him to you, like just
very casually.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
So he was really concerned. He wanted her to move
the car instantly. She says, I need to call a
doctor and the police, and he says, absolutely not, do
not call anyone. That's a death sentence for us and
the whole family if you do. So she doesn't, and

(13:18):
she moves the car because for some reason, so many
questions everyone has. Yeah, so do I, she says. She
nurses him back to health for like a week.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Also, also what drug takes a week to get out
of your system? And what drug doesn't allow you to
be able to speak? And then it continued because she
was saying for the entire week he wasn't talking.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
You did not talk to her, He just wrote things down.
All great questions here I don't believe and all none
really have.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
None of this is making any sense.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, I know, So she nurses him back in my
other questions that his job, he can just not show
up for a week and a half.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
No one is looking for this.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
No one is looking for this guy, like, hey man,
why didn't you come to work?

Speaker 1 (14:11):
It makes me yeah, I know, yeah, it makes me
the best grow company. He was president of it. It's like,
I really need to be careful about what I say,
because I do do this for a living. There's a
lot of it is a seventy years I was going
to say nowadays, when you work in this field, there
are so many rules and regulations and disclosures and paperwork

(14:33):
you have to sign on all sides. And it's because
of things like this, let's.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Say about half the stuff that you are now obligated
by I didn't exist fifty years ago now. So it's
it's trying to understand an industry that is not the same.
It's totally. I mean, I'm the same.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Way, but as someone who works and I can see
how if those regulations and stuff aren't there, how easy
it would be to get roped into something that it
was ripe for the picking. And it makes sense. So yeah,
the fact that the crime boss didn't show up to work,
who's running the ES Group company but is also handling
these transactions, you don't probably get I cannot imagine everyone

(15:16):
acts ignorant to this. There's no way that people in
his life did not know what he was doing.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I mean, unfortunately, we're just not going to get a
lot of the details.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
So he then tells her something and the effect of
they took my treasury ID. And she tells us as
at first, she's ever heard of this. What do you
mean they took your treasure ID? I don't know why.
I like, that's the thing you tell her? I don't know. Maybe, hey,
why don't you tell her why you were missing for
three days and came in all disheveled and tied up.

(15:47):
That might be something you want to tell, but your
Treasury ID is your top priority, supposedly. He then says
that he'd been working for me.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's a Treasury ID. Is it a real thing?

Speaker 2 (16:00):
The Department of Treasury is, Yes, the real thing that's government.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Did he work for the Department of Treasury?

Speaker 2 (16:05):
He says that he'd been working for the Department of
Treasury for the last two to three years. So, okay,
So this is where Robert Stack comes back and we
get told this part of the story. Robert Texas, So,
was he a secret agent for the Treasury. Was he

(16:26):
giving the Treasury in the federal government information about organized
crimes dealings in the Tucson area, because then we get
they go on to tell us about how Tucson in
the seventies had become a massive hub for the mafia

(16:47):
in organized crime to the border. Yeah, because there was
a major pipeline for drugs to come in and out
of the country.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
So, thank goodness, we've got a handle on that now.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
So Dawn, there was a mafia boss by the name
of Joseph Bonano and he had come down here and
they said, like there was over like five hundred mafia
guys down here doing business running drugs, and there was this.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
There was a law there still is you can buy
land here in the state of Arizona, Arizona under the
name of a trust.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, so there was a law that you can buy
land through a numbered blind trust.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
I don't know if you can do it as a
blind trust anymore, but so, yeah, your personal name and
ownership is not tied to the land, allowing people to
basically buy a land under like a blanket name and
it not be traced back to them.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah. So we learned that a lot of mafia guys
were down here, they were running buying a plan and
it was a way for them to launder money. And
we also get told so then this is important. We
get an investigative journalist by the name of Don Devereaux, okay,

(18:12):
and he talks. He kind of tells us he's it's
this investigative journalist that who's been looking into because I
guess there was another investigative journalist by the name of
Don Boyo's yeah, who was killed by the mafia and
that was a big thing down here Tucson in the seventies.
But he starts telling us that they were also laundering

(18:35):
money through the purchase of gold Boillyon and platinum. And
he says that Chuck definitely was involved in buying this
stuff billions worth of dollars at least on paper, but
no actual like no one ever saw any of.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
No one actually had.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
It was a great way to launder money. And he
definitely Chuck had definitely had ties and had done some
business for some mafia families, like that is a known fact.
How involved that he was with doing real estate or

(19:18):
this gold Booleon and platinum transactions, they don't know.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Clearly he was more involved in it than I think.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, here's the thing. There's much more to it. This
is a world I don't understand, so I'm probably not
giving the best description. And all this stuff works, So
I apologize if anyone's like that doesn't make any sense.
Didn't make a whole lot of sense to me either.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
But you don't work in organized card and.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
I also don't work in these transaction stuff. Yeah, I
don't understand how. I don't understand how they were laundering
money and all that through that. But either way, there
was ties of Chuck doing business, helping I get some
organized crime families purchasing up stuff and using that to

(20:07):
launder money.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, my guess is going to be there's so many
minds around here. I mean, Arizona is packed with mining.
I'm going to guess that there was pretend mining going
on and they were saying that they were purchasing or
that they were they were purchasing goal that didn't really exist.
And it goes along with platinam nickel, all of that

(20:30):
coppers all down here. That that's just my assumption of
that's how that was happening.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
So this is kind of the state of Tucson and
the state of the economy and that going on during
this time. So, all right, Chuck's back, he's recovered, he's
gone back to work. No one seems worried that he
was missing.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
They didn't really change anything in their lives.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Clearly, the police were not called because they never investigated
his first yep. Okay, so Chuck's now a little bit
more paranoid. So what does he do. He wears a
bulletproof vest every day. Okay, that is not common amongst

(21:16):
people that work in real estate.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
No, I leave my bulletproofessed at home when I go to.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Work, So so it's wearing a bullet profess. He assays
that he drives. He has four daughters. Huh, drives them
to school and from school. So he's paranoid, right.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, my guy, you have gotten in bed with the
wrong people, and you clearly did something that ticked them off.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah. Yeah. So two months later, Chuck vanishes again. Okay,
he just disappears, doesn't come home. Okay, Okay, do you
think his wife called the police? No, no, she didn't.
She then tells us that nine days, nine days after

(22:08):
he had been missing, she gets a phone call from
a lady who says, hey, listen. Chuck's okay. But and
she just tells her Ecclesiastes twelve one through eight.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Oh, you guys, buckle up. It's about it's going to
get weird here, very weird.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Okay. So two days after that, she has no idea
what that means. She goes and reads it. You can
go read it. It doesn't make any sense. I don't
know what it means. Two days later, Chuck's body is
discovered out in the desert. Okay. He still has his

(22:49):
bulletproof vest on, and there was a single He's killed
by a single gunshot wound to the back of the
head with his own three fiftyfty seven magnum. Okay, Okay.
Police come out. Sheriff's office comes out, Piemacuna sheriff County. Yeah,
they come out and investigate. They say they found directions

(23:14):
to the place where he was found, so on a
piece of paper in his car there was directions to
that place. So someone had given him directions to get there. Okay.
They found a pair of sunglasses that did not belong
to him, and a two dollars bill clipped in his underwear.

(23:34):
I also found out from my research a piece of
his tooth was wrapped up in a handkerchief in his car,
and there was guns, multiple guns, and a crap ton
of ammunition in his car. They don't tell us that
I'm unsold mischiefs, but I learned that later way more

(23:55):
to it.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
That makes a little bit more since because they theorized
you might have been meeting somebody.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
M yeah, yeah, So on this two dollars bill, this
it gets weird people.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah. He leaves us very clear ideas.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Of there's seven there's listed on the front of the
two dollars bill seven Spanish names, yep. And if you
look at him, it's a through whatever g Yeah, you know,
each name is yeah whatever. Then Ecclesiastes twelve, verse one
through eight is written on the front of it.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Again what yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
I know. And then on the back of it all
there's multiple signers of the declaration numbered one through seven.
What that means? But then there is a map on
there on the back Where is Nicholas Cage when we
need him? There's multiple roads written on the back of this.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, this is where ben gets is where I.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Was like, oh, I know this because I work in
this area. Yeah, eighty six Highway eighty six is on there.
There's a road that goes down which is technically highway
to eighty six. So there's another road written over, and
there is the town of Aravaka circled on there. They
don't say that, but I saw it on there, and

(25:12):
it goes down to the town Sassaby, which I also know.
I worked in all of this area.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
And the town of Aravoka. What's the.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
It's a smuggling town.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah. See how do people make money in Aravoka.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
In multiple ways? But some people might make money by smuggling.
I cannot confirm, nord and I Yeah, but then there's
a were.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
You surprised to see arak on there with this.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
And all of that with it with what we don't
say Rob's Junction, but Robus Junction is another town. Yeah,
it's called Robus Junction and three points.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah. Were you surprised that any of this happened around
that area?

Speaker 2 (25:54):
No?

Speaker 1 (25:54):
No, that's all people need to know.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, and there's a ranch called the Buenos Aires Ranch
and that's on this map. Yeah, Okay, what the map
means we don't know.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
So pe McCann of Sheriff's investigated and what do they do?
They rule his death. They suicide. Yep, you heard that.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Not surprised suicide in the seventies. Yeah, I guarantee, I am.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
I know a lot of sheriffs.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
They're all I'm talking about in the seventies, like it
being you've got to look the other way.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
So yeah, I don't. I don't. I think to someone
was a different.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Town and then they know yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, so somehow this has ruled a suicide. We even
get like a retired lieutenant with the peman kind of sheriff.
They interview him and he's like, yeah, listen, I knew
guys that knew this wasn't that, and they left the
sheriff's department and some of them left the country. Because
he goes, it wasn't necessarily over this case. But what
he pretty much says, what a lot of stuff that

(26:55):
was going on in this town at that time.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, okay, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
It doesn't look good yea at all. So two days
after his body's found, peym Mccounty sheriff does get a
phone call from a lady she calls herself green Eyes,
and she tells them a story that she met with
Chuck before he died, that she'd met at him at

(27:20):
a hotel and he had a briefcase full of money,
and that he had admitted to her that he was
using this money to try and buy his way out
of a hit that had been put out on him.
So there was it anyways, So he that's what She
just tells that story. They would never track her down

(27:42):
and never talked to her. So we don't even know
who this lady.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Is that was his girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
I don't know, I honestly don't. Maybe so three weeks later,
Ruth tells us that two guys show up at her door,
flash their badges real quick, say they're with the FBI,
and they search your house. She has no idea what

(28:11):
they're searching for. She doesn't know if they take anything.
She also says she didn't even think to ask for
a search warrant, so they just come in and ransack
her house and then leave. So this is where it
gets a little weird. Dawn Devereux, the investigative journalist, comes back,
and he says, listen, I actually looked into this. I

(28:32):
contacted the FBI and asked him, hey, did you search
your house? What's going on?

Speaker 1 (28:36):
A fo of information?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
He did a Freedom of information act on everything they
had on Chuck right, Yeah, and the FBI claims, you
don't know who you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, we don't have any files under that name.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
And even Devereux says, I know that's a lie because
they interviewed Chuck's attorney they had done at an investigation
he goes, so they so the question is there lying
to him? Was that them not? And the reason they
think that they searched her house is because Chuck supposedly

(29:12):
told his wife that if anything happens to me, told
his dad, I'm sorry, if anything happens to me, there's
a letter explaining everything, who, what, when, where, why? So
it's all going to come out. Well, that letter is
never surfaced, so never been found. So he either hit

(29:32):
it really well or never existed. Never existed, yea. Was
that the mafia looking for it or was that.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Also in cahoots with the mafia?

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Could have been So technically his death is still ruled.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Are you kidding me? It's still a suicide suicide.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
So that's so we get mysteries back in he you
know what happened? Was he killed?

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Why is he a good guy? Was he really a
secret agent for the government who was trying to help
the mafia, trying to help the government pin down the
mafia and he got killed for it or was he
a bad guy and the fact of he was helping
the mafia drug guy's launder money through transactions of real estate,

(30:25):
bullion whatever. We need to find this out, all right,
it's kind of where they leave us.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Okay, update, what do you got for us?

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Still unsolved? Nothing huh so until mysteries does come back
and tell us a little bit that three months after
this happened, a man this is gonna get weird, to
stay with me. A man by the name of Doug Johnston.

(30:55):
He was He's just a guy living in Phoenix was
found shot dead in his car. Okay, in Phoenix. Come
to find out, this guy, Doug Johnston worked across the
street from where the investigative journalist Don Devereux worked, and

(31:16):
he drove the exact same vehicle that Devereaux drove. So
Devereux continued to look into Chuck Morgan's death right and
all these mafia ties. Devereux then got a call from
a reporter in DC who said, hey, man, I just

(31:38):
talked to a CIA guy and an Intel guy and
said that guy Doug Johnston. That was meant to be
you out on you right now and so just so
you know, be on the lookout. So they think that
that guy was just in the wrong place at the
wrong time.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Suck guy.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
He looked like Deborau. They yeah, drove the exact same
car in the same the same place. Yeah, here's the
best part. Doug Johnston's death was also ruled as suicide.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 2 (32:10):
She was shot behind the left ear with a twenty
two a twenty five. Guess what the murder weapon wasn't
in the vehicle. There was no gun in the vehicle.
The gun has never been found, but yet was ruled
a suicide.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
This is Phoenix, Phoenix PD or whoever was over this
and p MC county back then might have been corrupt
and infiltrated by organized crime. But I can tell you what,
we least hope that today they are not at bare minimum.
They could change these deaths, which would allow of some

(32:46):
sort of investigation to potentially be there if they ever
found anything.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, So I don't know. So, like I said it,
that's where until mysteries tells us and they Devereux supposedly
got another call. Set man there's still a hit out
on you and h but now they're saying if they
do come after you, they're going to make it look
like an accident. So Deboraux, you know, they tell him.
So he continued to and.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
All he was was just an investigator journalist, right, So
he was putting this information out as a journalist.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, right, Okay, so that's kind of where that's a
little bit of an update they give.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Okay, anything else.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, So, Okay, this case, clearly there's a lot of Yeah,
there's a lot behind it. If you guys want a
deeper dive into it. There are so many podcasts that
have done this, Like there's a podcast I don't know,
it's called Morbid Morbid. They did a big, long one
on it. Yeah, Crime Junkies or they did something on it, and.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Those are some of the biggest podcasts in true crime.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
So I was super curious on this, Okay, So I
kind of dug into it. It does I did find Yeah,
like Chuck the medical examiner had ruled to Chuck it
only been dead for twelve hours, so he was alive
in that ten eleven days, was missing where he was,
what he was doing. It is believed that he did.

(34:14):
They pushed the theory that that sixty thousand dollars he
had was there to buy He met up with the
hitman that was supposed to kill him and said, hey,
can I just buy my life back? He stole the
money and killed him anyways, Right, there's no evidence of that,
just a theory. Yeah. I was curious to where his
body was actually found. It was found actually off eighty
six towards the Indian Reservation out there towards Sells, Arizona. Yeah,

(34:38):
so I thought that was interesting that Buenos Aires Ranch
was a ranch. It's not a ranch anymore. It's actually
the federal government bought it in nineteen eighty five and
they changed it. It's a wildlife reserve. Now. I've actually
been there many times. Yeah, I've been to the building
there all that. So, so here's hopefully I can make

(35:01):
sense of this. I looked into. I was like, that
Devereux guy, what was he digging into? I listened to
an interview by him. He did an interview on a podcast.
He was looking into the death of Chuck because he
was also looking in that the government was flying stuff.

(35:22):
There was a landing strip on that Buenos Aire's ranch
and they were flying in gold from Asia. After they
were flying in gold, and that this CIA in the
government was using that to help fund their secret black
ops without government oversight. He was digging into that.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
They were laundering gold.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, and then obviously Chuck was helping transactions. So but
he wasn't just looking into Chucks. He was looking into
this whole conspiracy.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
I know, it makes my blood boil how much organized
crime and the government a lot of the times are
so similar.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
So sorry, I lost my train of thought there. So
he was looking into that. Someone called him an intelligence
and said, listen, dude, you're not going to find anything,
but if you keep digging, you're going to get you're

(36:29):
gonna end up dead. And he kind of dropped it
because he said, he goes, all of this was happening.
He said, all the information I had, it was happening
from nineteen eighty two, from nineteen seventy two to nineteen
eighty five, he goes, when I was looking into it,
it was all over and done, he said. But and
he also thinks that once it aired on Unsolved Mysteries,

(36:50):
the heat got too hot and they just dropped.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, they'll drop it and figure out something else to do.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
So anyways, like that was why, that's what he was
looking into. Supposedly he thought Chuck was tied to that
smuggling on that Buenos Aire's ranch. They were flying in stuff.
There's all government tied, so there's no evidence to point
going to be evident, but you'll find this interesting. He

(37:17):
got a call from a buddy of his hold on,
let me pull this up. M by the name of
Danny Casillio, who Danny Castellario is. So Danny Castilaira was
also a journalist, and he called him and said, hey,
I think I have some information on this Chuck guy

(37:40):
and his transactions of gold and buoyon and all that stuff. Well,
Danny Cassillario shortly after that was found dead in his
hotel from his wrist being slit. This is the documentary
about the octopus that is the guy. Yeah, so supposedly
that whole documentary. I haven't watched it. I've watched one episode.

(38:04):
This death is supposedly tied into that in some switch way, like.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
The government silencing their own citizens.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
So I can't really speak to it because I watched it,
so I don't know anything. I just know it was
a big deal at the time. So, yeah, there is
a lot of rabbit holes you can go in on this.
I'm not going to go down all.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Involved in organized crime. You guys, my word of device.
You're just upon in a game and you can always
be replaced.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah. So yeah, Anyways, technically.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
According to to solve, because.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
According to our pacost he is it's technically unsolved, but
not because it's his death is still ruled a suicide
and medical examiner in my county.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Let's get that updated, shall we.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Unfortunately his wife passed away in two thousand and six,
but he still does I think.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
From whatever his daughters are still around here, all right.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
So I read an article from Arizona and they like
in twenty ten and they talked to it. Why don't
we start all of his daughters obviously still think he
was murdered. Sounds like they still maybe some of them
still live in the area, but oh they're not well anyway,
that's all.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
We have a logical around here that listen to us.
So if anyone knows one of their daughters, have them
reach out to us. I would love to just interview
them and get their take on it. So, Okay, before
we jump into my story. We have a laundry list
of new downloads because I've been bad about this over
the last few weeks because we've been just so busy

(39:42):
every time we log on to record. So yeah, welcome
to all of these new places that we've been downloaded.
If you're here with us for the first time, we
were excited to have you. And if you just happen
to download us while you were out traveling for work
or for pleasure, thank you for letting us tag along
with you. So here we go. Oh, Wilston, North Dakota. Eh,

(40:04):
that's Canada. A Palmondale, California, Madison, Alabama, glass Borough, New Jersey, Halifax,
Nova Scotia, Nova Scotia, Comma A. That's correct, that is Canada, Canada. Bridgewater, Massachusetts, Massachusetts.

(40:29):
Oh my gosh, now it's in my head. How do
you say it?

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Massachusetts, Massachusetts?

Speaker 1 (40:34):
That doesn't sound right. Pontiac, Michigan Bay, Saint Louis, Mississippi,
rock Wall, Texas, Gibson City, Illinois, Illinois. Sorry, I okay,
I was wrong. I have called it Illinois my whole life.
I've been listening to podcasts and different things of people,

(40:55):
and every time they say the state Illinois. There is
no s on the end.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
No, no, I just I looked it up like where
it comes from and all that.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Then gave me a history lesson. It's French. Mm hmmm.
So the French like to do unnecessary things for fancy
reasons and put s's on the end of belong there.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Anyways, it's Illinois, Uh.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Mobile, Alabama, Hyeman, Kentucky. Yep. Uh.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
I'm getting nervous because questioning everything now.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
I'm getting nervous now because I'm getting to our international ones.
Lewish Ham, London Ham, Lewis, Lewis, Lewis Ham. If you're
from there, please send me a voice memo and let
me know how to say that. Paris, France. Got that one,

(41:51):
easy peasy and aha more France. So there you go. Aha,
that's those are our new places. So welcome friends. We're
excited to have you. Okay. So I have a sad
story for you, guys. We're gonna take it down or notch.

(42:12):
During the height of the civil rights movements, the black
community in Washington Parish, Louisiana, began to push for integration
into the sheriff's department. Okay, in response to black deputies
are appointed. Forty one year old David Creed Rogers and

(42:35):
thirty four year old O'Neil Moore become the first two
African American men in law enforcement in Washington Parish. Huge deal. Yeah,
the families of the deputies were excited. However, some residents,
not surprising to anybody of the community, are not happy

(42:58):
about this. There was a very strong outcry from a
handful of people against African Americans taking part in any
sort of law enforcement. Tragically, one year later, Deputy Sheriff
O'Neil moore is gunned down while on duty in what

(43:19):
appears to be a radically not radically racially motivated attack
on June sixth, nineteen sixty five. He is laid to
rest and his killer is at this like not identified.
His partner, Creed Rogers, loses an eye and attack but
survives and he hopes that the attackers can still be

(43:41):
identified in brought to justice. So that's kind of we
get that whole kind of thing right at the beginning,
Like this is what we're looking at our.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Story that we're.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, at the time, African American deputies such as O'Neil
and Creed were not allowed to confront white people, of
course not. I know, you can be in law enforcement,
but you're not allowed to what I think, Okay, I'm

(44:15):
going to get off on my soapbox here for a second.
How this was still a problem post Lincoln and the
Civil War and reintegration, Like I just I'm I'm always
fath and which maybe I shouldn't be that in nineteen

(44:37):
sixty four we were still dealing with this stuff.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Nineteen sixty four was the year that the Civil Rights
Act was passed, I know, up until that point, and
then you had that what was it, the Scott hit Ferguson, Yeah,
were it was. Yes, I mean, we all understand that
segregation was law, and it's I'm not.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Saying as someone who has studied that time air from
Lincoln to that so very little and I'm definitely not
extremely educated on this, is that every time something was
done in the correct direction, three steps went back, typically
from the people still in power in the South that

(45:25):
did everything that they could.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
It didn't I mean, obviously all men being free.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
And equal like meant nothing to these people.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
It did not end at the Civil War that that
that fight went on.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, and I'm sure it might be the source losers
in world history.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
So but you know, it's, uh, it just makes me mad.
It's part of history.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
I understand.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
It's it's terrible and it was. Here's the thing that
the reason things get better is because of brave men
like this that stepped up. And even though when they
stepped up, it's still they were yeah, held down, but
they they found ways to break barriers and push out and.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
It cost a lot of them their life.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
They did, Yeah, and their heroes for doing a lot
of the things that they did.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Okay, so the one they weren't allowed to confront them
much less. They had no authority to arrest any people
that were white. Despite the fact that they were working
in a very white dominated community and job that barely
tolerated their presence, they persevered, They show up to work.
They promised themselves that they were not going to let

(46:42):
their community down. They did this job with honor and pride.
It was the night of June second, nineteen sixty five.
After just over a year on duty, O'Neill and Creed
had come to expect harassment. It was kind of part
of their job. As a result, they were not surprised

(47:04):
when a pickup truck began tailgating them. When they got
to Peters Hill, they noticed that a fire had been
set on the side of the road. They make a
U turn. They go around to inspect be and fire.
Looking more closely, they realized that it was a trash
fire and it didn't look dangerous, so it really didn't

(47:24):
take They didn't need to do anything about this, so
they make another U turn and start heading south down
the road. The pickup truck that had been seen earlier
pulled off to the right side of the road. As
they passed the truck, it pulled out and began to
follow them. Creed noticed that it was a dark black
truck with white rail and a rebel tag on the front.

(47:46):
As they continued to drag south, the truck sped up
and pulled up next to the deputies. At least two
of the occupants of the truck began to fire at
the deputies. Both O'Neil and Creed were shot and lost
control and crashed into a tree. A local resident heard
the shots and ran to the crash scene. He found,
unfortunately that O'Neill had passed away and Creed was badly injured.

(48:10):
He stood guard until police arrived, Chief Deputy Sheriff Dolly Holiday.
That's like the.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Mary Poppins song, the Mary Poppins song, I don't know
what it's.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
A jolly holly holiday with you Bert. A few minutes later,
he began an intense investigation that would consume the next
several months. As Creed was being taken away into the ambulance,
he gave the description of the truck and immediately Sheriff

(48:46):
Holiday puts out an all points bulletin to be on
the lookout for the truck. Some of us might call
that a bolo, just for people that are in the now.
Do you know what bolo means? Been? Never heard of it.
About half an hour later, Dull learn that the truck
fitting the description was apprehended in Tylertown, Mississippi. The truck

(49:10):
fits the description perfectly, with the exception of the side rails.
There wasn't side rails on it at the time of
the imprehension. The truck driver was stopped twenty miles from
the scene of the shooting and was arrested, but was
later released on a twenty five thousand dollars bond, and
charges were later dismissed due to any lack of evidence suspicion,

(49:31):
Thattch naturally shifts and focuses on our local terror organization
what do we call them? Kkking the ku kukx Klan. However,
the local chapter immediately denied any involvement racial tensions.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Actually because that's reliable.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
They're a reliable source. Clearly they yeah, we're going to
take them at face value. Yeah, with their high Woods status.
Did you know that that's what they call themselves, like
the main leaders, like the High Wizard.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
I didn't because I've never looked into those scumbags.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
I so I've listened to a few history podcasts and
they kind of make fun of just the ridiculousness of it.
High Wizard. Is there a magic wand involved? Is there
a sorting hat?

Speaker 2 (50:20):
I can If there is, I can tell them where
they can stick them exactly.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Oh my gosh. The people, Yeah, scum, all right. Unfortunately,
racial tensions continue to increase in the area in Washington Parish.
The sheriff refuses to give in to any pressure, and
O'Neil was replaced by another African American deputy. I will say,

(50:46):
at face value, I didn't do a lot of research
on this. The man running the Sheriff's department. From all accounts,
from what I saw in Unsolved Mysteries, he seemed to
be bothered that this was happening. Yeah, and it felt

(51:07):
important to him to try to get this solved.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
So.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
O'Neill's wife recalled that the shooting didn't really accomplish what
the assailants intended to, as it didn't scare away any
other African Americans from joining the department, and instead gave
them courage to continue to show up and do their jobs.
Sheriff Holliday continued to pursue the investigation. In two weeks

(51:40):
after the shooting. The violence came to his home that evening.
After he finished talking to the sheriff on the phone,
he went to the couch to sit with his family,
and suddenly shots were fired into their home. Dole had
his family get done on the floor and then grabbed
his gun and went outside and fired back to the
assailants cars it drove away. He believes that the attack

(52:00):
was to scare him and to stop the investigation. However,
he and others involved refuse to back down. The local
population did refuse to cooperate, unfortunately, with FBI and local authorities,
not surprising, despite even at one point a twenty five

(52:23):
thousand dollars reward from the Governor of Louisiana being offered
and the case was deemed inactive in nineteen sixty seven.
Doll believes that the people were afraid to come forward
because the High Wizard KKK was pathetic and scared people people.

(52:45):
I just don't want to give them any power, like
it even annoys me that they had that much control
over the community. And I understand it, that is how
fear works, but that just feeds these little men's egos.
They're little pin headed brains. People were afraid that this
organization of losers would come after them or their families.

(53:09):
So in June of nineteen eighty seven, the FBI Field
office in New Orleans was contacted by one informant. They
sent a letter and two other anonymous sources they claimed
to identify the people responsible for ol O'Neill's murder. As
a result the new information, the case was reopened. According

(53:29):
to the FBI, one of the letters was very specific
on identifying the individuals within the pickup truck and identifying
the gateway of the getaway route of the truck. The
FBI has looked into three individuals mentioned in the letter.
They've interviewed their families and people associated with them. Unfortunately,
the FBI does not have enough information at this time

(53:52):
to make an arrest, but they believe that the killers
are part of Loser club Ville. And it has been
decades since the faithful night that O'Neill and Creed took
their last ride together. Creed, who is interviewed, refuses to
be frightened away. He lost an eye in this and

(54:14):
he's sitting on unsolved mysteries and he is he seems
still so affected in touch by this, but also you
can see this sense of like pride. In nineteen eighty eight,
he actually retired as a full captain of the Washington
Parish Sheriff's Department, which is awesome.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
I think it's awesome. And no matter, even after this
and he went back to work.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
He never let this he and he could have rightfully
so been like this is not worth it.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
And they went there to do that. And then he
not just he succeeded, he moved up and I can
I even imagine that it was easy for him to
even get promoted all that.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
No, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Then go and still become, you know, a captain and
all that it is.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
No I guarantee on every member of that Sheriff's department
for most of his career was excited to have him there.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
But he I mean, he he paved the way. Yeah,
a lot of people, and that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
So he still wonders today who is responsible for the shooting.
He also fears that those are responsible are alive and
may decide to still come after and hurt him or
his family or any of the other many African American
people who have decided to get into law enforcement. Sheriff
Holiday notes that these individuals are getting older and just

(55:44):
like a good old Southern boy, points that these people
are getting ready to make their meet their makers, and
that they might want to confess to something before they
decide to journey on to the next stage. And he's
hoping that this can be solved. So that's kind of
where unsolved mystery leaves us. All right, update, are you ready.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Have a bad feeling about this?

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah? The FBI conducted a two year investigation into the case,
interviewing more than fourteen hundred people and generating more than
two thousand written reports on this. According to a DOJ,
that is, the Department of Justice. For Benjamin memo, multiple
suspects were investigated, including many of the men who posted

(56:34):
bail for the original shooter or that was I guess
originally rested the night of the shooting. His last name
was Mick Elvin mcelv I hope he never had a
day's rest in his life after this, as well as
other known members of the Loser clan in the area.

(56:59):
According to the DOJ memo, one of the major roadblocks
in the investigation of the time was fear of retaliation.
Despite the reward offered, the case was closed without prosecution
in nineteen sixty seven. The case would be reopened again
from new leads in nineteen eighty nine, and then they
actually designated a major case and a priority investigation over

(57:24):
this specific murder from the FBI, coordinating with a television
program Unsolved Mysteries Hey that brought in a ton more leads,
multiple witnesses. They even went before a grand jury. Despite
these efforts, it was closed again in nineteen ninety one,
opened again in ninety two, closed again in ninety six.

(57:48):
So the case was finally and last time reopened in
two thousand and one. Despite many years and many many investigations,
the FBI fully identified a laundry list of people who
contributed to this that they felt that they they put

(58:10):
out a list. They did not put out a list.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
I bet, I'd say, usually you don't unless you can
bring them.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
I wonder if now, because it's closed, we could do
a frame of information act on it and might be
able to get these case files.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
But I don't think you can.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
One of the problem was is that at one point
in the later investigation is multiple people all within the KKK,
all came to confess at like the same time. So
then they had a ton of people taking which then
actually muddies the water even more. And I'll tell you this,
there's no way those idiots came up with that da themselves.
I guarantee that was because someone within that clan was

(58:50):
in some way connected unfortunately to people of power, and
they I just I cannot stand these I hope they
get lemon juice in their cuts and that their milk
curdles every time they open it. Okay, So the FBI
do to that. One of those was many of the roadblocks.
We weren't able to get enough evidence to prosecute any
of people because so many things were getting criss crossed.

(59:13):
They continue to pursue the case even after the main
suspect died in two thousand and three. In two thousand
and sixteen, citing virtual impossibility of pursuing and prosecuting the case,
the FBI chose to close the case permanently.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
It appears, I can say, it appears that they did try. Yeah,
and it's unfortunate that they were unable to bring anyone
forth to justice.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Yeah, it broke my heart.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
But you know, I mean every year they goes by,
it becomes much more difficult. And I can imagine that
in two thousand and even in the nineties, Kelly, it
was probably, yeah, almost impossible.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
All I can say is that anyone that was involved
in this or this organization in general, but they always
cut their toenails too short, that they always get lemon
juice in their paper cuts, that toilet paper gets stuck
to their butt every time they go that whenever they
go to a nasty gas station bathroom that's hand soap

(01:00:30):
isn't working and they just ran out of toilet paper.
Those are I mean, like what else can you do?
You just hope that everything about their life is miserable
forever in it, I don't know. I mean justice on
the next side will be served.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
That's my hope. Yes, Unfortunately justice was not served in
this life, and being a God believing man, I just
hope that God and I know I know God will.
I'll just say justice on the other side.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Be kind to each other out there. I'm not going
to get too philosophical, but that is something that I
no one's perfect at I try to live by and
I just be kind to everybody out there. All right, Ben, all.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Right, we're gonna lighten things up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Okay, Biscuit is a please, because.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
I don't have anything crazy, Okay, all right? And then
I know you got a decent, decent one. Yeah, good one.
So we're going to be quick on this one. This
is uh, this is a wanted it's a bank robber.
I'm not saying I I'm seeing it's lighter because it's
not some tragedy. No one's died in this one, but

(01:01:36):
unfortunately he did rob banks and it's not good. September nineteenth,
nineteen eighty seven, Spokane, Washington. A bank robber comes in,
got sunglasses on cowboy boots. It's called the cowboy robber,
cowboy boot robber. Right, they didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Say that there back in the day when we used
to give cool names to terrible people. And now there
really gets it and I understand why. But also there
was an art form to it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
So anyways, he walks in, got sunglasses, he pulls a gun.
He says, give me allion money, don't set the alarm.
He then proceeds to show he's got a police scanner,
so I don't know if you try to trip the alarm.
He goes in, he takes all the employees to the
vault and steals one hundred thousand dollars. He's in and

(01:02:25):
out in less than five minutes, no fingerprints because he
makes one employee hold a bag while the other while
another employee loads the bag, and then he just takes
the bag and he's out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Genius.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
But there's no photos, no video of it. It is
the eighties, so so FBI is looking for him, all right,
So that's nineteen eighty seven. We find out that between
nineteen eighty seven and when this Unsoil Mysteries thing airs,
he's robbed possibly at least four more banks. We get

(01:03:00):
told about August thirtieth, nineteen eighty eight. He makes out
with fourteen thousand dollars in cash. As he's walking out
of the bank, kaboom, a die pack explodes, makes a
pretty big scene on the street. He runs and he
gets in his car, drives off and guess what, someone
sees it and sees it. Yeah, so with that person

(01:03:22):
and some of the employees, they're able to before the sketch.
But they still don't have a picture of this guy.
All right, so we get shown the sketch. But guess
what we get lucky June sixth, nineteen eighty eighty nine
at the Horizon Credit Union and Spokane, Yes, I think

(01:03:46):
it was Spokane.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Shout out to my family in Spokane.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Heyo, he pulls a gun, give me all your money, and.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
So how every bank rubber says that, yeah, give me all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Your give me all your money, goes into the vault.
He steals all the money in the vault, and then he.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Says he got greedy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
He did get greedy. He said, I want all the
money in the tills. So I didn't know this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
I didn't know this either, And I wonder if thinks
were like, gee, thanks unsolved mystery for giving this away.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Yeah, but what the employee pulls the bill trap. From
my understanding, they have video cameras, but they're not constantly
rolling because it is the eighties and the technology and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
We just trusted everybody back then, apparently.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
But there are some bills underneath, like a little lever
in the till and it looks like a little money clip. Yeah.
And if you pull those bills, it flips that switch
and it's one it sets off the alarm, and two
it triggers the video camera. So the employee even though

(01:04:58):
supposedly he's got a police skin on his hip, Yeah,
but his.

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
Gun probably wasn't even loaded.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Like that's she pulls the bill trapped. Yeah, they get
a picture of him. We got a photo. We got
a look at this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
He also was down here in Tucson, Arizona. Was he?

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Yeah, FBI realizes they get a picture of him. Well,
there's a picture of this guy from Tucson that is
supposedly run.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Two times in one episode.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Three or four banks down into Yeah, so he is
suspected of robbing nine banks. Okay, get the photo of them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Did we ever get a total of how much money
he stole?

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
I did in my research Okay, I was see.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
I don't remember them saying.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Four hundred thousand dollars okay, that we know of and
adjusted for inflation, that's about three times. Yeah, so I
mean it's over a million, so or close?

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
They think he's anywhere between the ages of thirty five
and forty five. He's six feet to six feet two
inches tall, two hundred to two hundred and twenty pounds,
and you get a picture of him. He's got a
mustache he has, and some came in cowboy hat, and
he has cowboy boots. He does all right, not throwing
with that. I love I love my cowboys.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
It looks good in a pair of cowboy boots.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
That's all I wear. Yeah, if I'm not at work
in my boots, it's cowboy boots, all right. Last bank
you robbed was in Tacoma, Washington on April nineteen ninety.
We're looking for this guy. Can we find him until mysteries?

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
All right? Update?

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
Never got shut the front door? Curiously, Yeah, so I
did look it up. What the statue of limitations is?
Even in armed robbery with no one getting hurt and
no one getting killed, obviously you kill someone that there's.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
No, yeah, five years, that's it to this day.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, you guys, so by.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Ninety dangerous information, I feel like, because to me, I'm like,
I could hide out for five years.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
So by nineteen ninety five, if his last robbery was
in April nineteen ninety and that's if he didn't rob
any more banks, he I mean, he's scott free with
a million bucks.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
That's okay, Well he was never If the cowboy capandit
lives somewhere here in Tucson, Arizona, please reach out to me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
They did say they thought he lived down here and
traveled to the North Pacific northwest of rob Banks and
then come back, and then he would come back. So
but they don't know. They have no idea. Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
I'm like now thinking through my rolodex of like all
of the people we know at the country club, the
country bar now the country club, two different things that
we go dancing at where we got all of these
guys as cowboys. There's a handful from they're over six
feet tall. Start asking them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
I don't know. It's a kind of Chris. It does
make me work because we've done multiple bank robberies, some
have been caught.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
So what does the satch of invitations start, I guess
to me, because it's like, let's say it does start
like the day of the crime. You have five years
from the date or the five days from the time
that the crime is realized. I mean, I get this.
Bank robbery is very easy to know instantly, but if
other things, is it when it's reported? Is it on

(01:08:07):
the day that it was committed?

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
That is a great question. I don't know, so yeah,
I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Is it the day that a police report is filed?
So then it's something concrete?

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
All great questions. I just I was curious to the
statute of limitations on bank robberies. Obviously it's a federal
usually a federal case because all banks.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Are and the time, the time that you serve for
it's federal money crimes is well, some of them are
like longer than some of them are longer than murder.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Some of them are pretty minimal too. Robbers they get
a few years. You're like, dude, you stole five hundred thousand,
you get two years and you get it and they.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Couldn't find the money. So it's like by the time
he gets out, he can just go get it. Yeah,
all right, that's crazy. I cannot believe. Actually, bank robbers
with a photo sort stuff ice water get you every time.
We can't have one episode where Ben doesn't have a
coffee fit.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
It just it does make me wonder. I'm going to
do some research. How many bank robbers were out there
that never got caught. It seems that it was pretty easy.
No kid, rob a bank and then just get over.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
This is the second or third one at least on
unsolved mysteries that we've covered. Remember the guys that were
like tunneling under the banks in California?

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Yeah, they were never caught. That's what I'm saying this.
There's been multiple. I think the only one that I
remember covering was the guy that like tripped and he
dropped his.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Gun, fumbling big robber or something.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
He was some twenty two year old college kid that
just totally made a mess of it. Yeah, and I
think he's the only one that got got But again,
I think he didn't do much.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
No, I don't think so either.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
But that's not so bananas?

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Okay, wild how many people don't get caught? All right?

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
Are you guys ready for a fun story?

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
Starts off a little, but we're going to get there.
So this is a little different than most of the
cases that we talk about on Unsolved Mysteries. It isn't
about a crime or a disappearance, or an alien or
a bigfoot. There is no amnesia in this story, and
there's also no psychics involved. But what we do have

(01:10:20):
is a medical mystery, a medical miracle. Maybe it is
the story about specifically this one a young woman named
Victoria and her dog and how they formed bond that
possibly saved her life. December fourth, nineteen eighty four in Minnie, Napolis, Minnesota.

(01:10:45):
Nineteen year old Victoria her life has changed forever. A
drunk driver runs a red light and slams into her car.
Pause for effect. Do not drink and drive people, It's
really not that difficult.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Changes girl's life forever.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Yeah it did. It changes girl's life forever. And we
got thousands and thousands of people every day, night, weekend
are affected by this. It's really not that hard get
a new bur or drink at home. It's being an adult.
She survives, but she suffers a severe head injuries and
before the accident she had what you would call, she said,

(01:11:22):
a perfect life. Afterwards, literally loses everything, her job, her education,
and complete independence. Not long after she's let out of
the hospital, she weekends suffering from blackouts and seizures, and
by nineteen eighty six, doctors gave her a very grim diagnosis.

(01:11:43):
She was diagnosed with a severe case of epilepsy. Have
you ever known anyone who had epilepsy? No? I don't,
So I've known one a girlfriend of mine in high school.
I think she was a grade younger than me, and
I can't even remember her name. We became friends through it.
We were taking German together, so she was a younger
classman than me, and I remember might have been my

(01:12:05):
junior or senior year. Me asking her because she was
getting ready to turn sixteen or she had just turned sixteen,
obviously like excited. You're going to get your driver's license?
Tell me about it. And she told me that she
wasn't allowed to get her driver's license. And I was like, what,
what's wrong with your parents? Like we lived in a
small town where the same thing, like not having access

(01:12:28):
to a vehicle as detrimental as a teenager, because nothing,
you're not walking to the movie theater, you're not walking anywhere.
And she said that she was had pretty bad epilepsy
and could not legally get a driver's license at the time,
and I that was like my first time being like whoa,

(01:12:50):
and I had never seen her have a seizure like
we'd been, you know, in this class together for the
entirety of the year or anything like that. I remember
asking her several questions. Hers, according to her, at least
the time, wasn't terrible, but it did affect diagnosed with
She even had to be careful, like walking upstairs, because
if she has a seizure while she's on the third

(01:13:10):
floor of our language arts building and cement stairs all
the way up. It's an outdoor building, it's she had
to take the elevator like it was detrimental to her
in that way, and at sixteen not able to get
a driver's license, which stinks. So at worse are our

(01:13:31):
main person here in Victoria was having more than twenty
seizures a day.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Debilitating, Yeah, terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
She was confined to a wheelchair, often strapped down so
she wouldn't hurt herself during violent convulsions. Death doctors warned her,
as Robert Sach tells us, was a constant threat. Victoria
described her life as hopeless. She was isolated, depressed, and
even at times didn't have a desire to live. But

(01:14:01):
help would come in a very unexpected place. Just outside Tacoma,
Washington at the Purity Correctional Center for Women, inmates were
part of a pilot program. There they were training shelter
dogs to become service animals. I love this story. I

(01:14:24):
love that this concept. I looked into this a little bit.
I'd heard about this place before. It's a maximum security prison.
I don't know who the ward was at the time
or how this concept got going. I think it is
an incredible program, especially with the fact that it uses
shelter dogs too. These are not most of the time

(01:14:46):
in the world of animal training. Let's take law enforcement.
We have several friends that do canine units and that
work and train these dogs. It is highly specific breeders
and their bread bread for that and same thing in
the world of medical like you know animals as well.

(01:15:07):
And the fact that this was a lack of a
better term, killing two words with one stone. You were
helping with the animal shelters, saving animals lives that way,
giving some light and hope to women that were incarcerated
for whatever reason. With potential a great skill to be
able to do on the outside.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Which limits when you were giving them purpose while.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
They're there exactly. And I was reading that they have
a way lower chance of reoffending if they have purpose
and some way to make like an income outside of
these prison walls. So awesome, And these service animals range
anywhere from ten to twenty thousands of dollars, and so
this also allows a program where it makes it affordable

(01:15:50):
for more people. So Victoria had heard about the program
in nineteen eighty seven and goes to meet a dog
during her Victoria actually had a seizure while she was there.
The dog selected for her actually walked away. So another
dog in the room, a Golden Retriever named Harley, did

(01:16:14):
something different. He wasn't even assigned to her at the time.
He ignored the trainer's command, walked across the room, went
to Victoria, and laid down beside her with his head
on her chest until the seizure passed. When she woke,
Carly rested his head on her as if he understood

(01:16:37):
when it had happened, and everyone in the room was
just kind of taken back from that moment. Harley was
hers at first, he helped her with daily task, so
that's what they trained therefore, originally opening doors x Y
or z, retrieving stuff, making her life a little bit easier,

(01:16:57):
giving her some independence. But soon Victoria realized that Harley
was doing something different. He wasn't just helping her recover
from seizures. He started to predict them. Mm hmmm, so
we have a psychic dog on our hands.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
No, no, it's not a psychic dog.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Okay, not a psychic dog. No, telekinesis dog. No nope, okay, Oh,
I'm just trying to make this a little bit more
unsolved mystery for you. The first So, the first time
it happened, she and Harley are walking across the college campus,
so get her. Even having this dog back in her
life allowed her to start being safely, able to go
certain places and including taking some classes back again at school. However,

(01:17:41):
and if anyone's ever seen a service dog, they're very calm,
even in chaotic, crazy situations of people in public. Nothing
seems to face them, and they listen and are highly
obedient to their person. However, while walking across campus, Harley
became it's crazy. He started barking, pacing, nudging at her

(01:18:03):
walk or jumping up and down, completely unlike his normal
calm himself, not listening to what the commands he was giving.
Not knowing what else to do, Victoria's found an empty classroom,
hoping to just calm the dog down and get a minute,
you know. Minutes later, she was hit with a seizure.
After that, he never failed to warn her, sometimes as

(01:18:28):
much as forty five minutes beforehand. He gave alerts to
her if she was somewhere, so she had time to
get to a safe place, away from traffic, away from stairs,
and a place where she couldn't hurt herself. For the
first time since her accident, Victoria had control of her
life again. She could never leave her house, go to class,

(01:18:49):
take walks, or anything. Now Harley by their side, they
were two and one. They did everything, all of those
things and more together. She started social again. She was
in activities and outings and social events and all of that.
Their bond grew very close, and he was her constant shadow.

(01:19:11):
But doctors and scientists are amazing, And we're interviewed by
us doctor Rosinis, who specializes in epilepsy, and they're telling
us there's no medication, no machine, no nothing on the
face of this earth and all of the technology that
we have that can predict when a seizure is going
to strict. It's actually one of the biggest problems with epilepsy.

(01:19:35):
But yet this dog could and he wasn't the only one.
Other dogs in the program started to show the same
mysterious gift. Harley gave her life, gave Victoria her life back,
but tragically his own was cut short.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
I about lost it when you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Guys, I don't cry over a lot of things, but
talking about animals die and it's like, I'm choking up
right now. So I'm gonna try to get through this
and not cry.

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
I bow, I thought it got me all upset.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
In nineteen ninety, just seven years old, he developed a
neurological illness which there was no care for. It just
breaks my heart that like a neurological like he saved
his owner from a neurological like debilitating illness. It's and
like then he ended up with one himself and we

(01:20:28):
couldn't do anything to help him. Oh my gosh, Okay,
within months he had passed away. Victoria was devastated, saying,
he gave me life and that's more than you can
ever give anybody. Harley's story, though didn't end there. His
case sparked a wider recognition for seizure alert dogs and
even inspired medical research in twenty nineteen. So this is

(01:20:52):
kind of my update because I mean, because at that
time this was like is this one off thing, Like,
how is this happening? What's going on here?

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
I mean, own, yeah, what happened? What is this?

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
So in twenty nineteen, French researchers tested whether dogs could
detect seizures by scent. They collected sweat samples from people
during surgeries and trained dogs to identify them. The dogs
were able to do it with remarkable accuracy. Then again,
in twenty twenty one, researchers in Ireland when a step further.
They suspected people released a unique chemical compound in their

(01:21:32):
sweats before a seizure began. They collected samples from people
with epilepsy, and even untrained dogs reacted to the ones
to those samples. So there is something in dogs that
they can detect, this hormone or this chemical change. Scientists
are beginning to confirm. Still to this day, this is
an ongoing thing because it's not the easiest to study

(01:21:57):
that what Victoria and Harley basically discovered and new and
trusted in each other that some dogs can detect Caesar's
using senses far above and beyond our own. So for
people with epilepsy, they discover that this has been life changing. Today,
Caesar alert dogs are recognized around the world. They give
their owners freedom, safety, and peace of mind. As for Victoria,

(01:22:20):
she went on to rebuild her life. She earned a
college degree, volunteered with nonprofits, and continued living her life
with epilepsy. Though her seizures never went fully away, Harley
did give her hope. In two thousand and two, Victoria
passed away at just fifty six years old. She was
survived by her daughter and her granddaughter and her siblings,

(01:22:42):
but her story and our beloved dog Harley live on
in every Wait in what year did she pass to? Oh? Sorry?
Did I say twenty twenty two?

Speaker 2 (01:22:57):
Okay except two and two?

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
No, sorry twenty twenty two. You for catching that well,
I was sorry. My eyes are still blurry. Uh. While
some dogs have this gift, it's still technically an unsolved
mystery as to what this like. They don't know in dogs, specifically,
what how and why they have this that hasn't been

(01:23:22):
understood yet, just that it is happening. They don't really
know how and why, but that dogs are able to
do this. But for people whose lives are changed every
single day, I don't think they really care about finding
the who's.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
Literally trained dogs to do this? Yes, and you can.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
Just scientifically, we don't understand what is so unique or
different about dog senses that they can detect this. And
I don't even know if they know the exact compound
or what is released in ours, like we don't understand
it as humans, what exactly they're detecting? Does that make sense? Yeah,
like a search dog. Can I remember someone saying this

(01:24:02):
to me and maybe even you did, or one of
your buddies at work. Since dogs, like we see a
cheeseburger and it's a cheeseburger, it smells like a cheeseburger.
But a dog can smell the bread, the lettuce, the tomato,
like all of these layers they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Smell at all, They smell each individual.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
They don't know in humans with epilepsy, what exactly that
tomato layer is that's making their sweat detectable that way?

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
Well, it's not maybe there is some type of mystery,
but not completely because what if when you have at
least from what I have, I watched I watched a
documentary on this Dogs that Do This, Yeah, a program
where they were giving dogs to people like that. Yeah,

(01:24:52):
that your body does create some type of chemical when
you're about to have a seizure. So if there is
a different scent that your body puts out, maybe you
don't know the exact is, then yes, a dog is
going to be able to detect it because they happening.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
That's why it's a mystery. They're not saying that it's
what's the word I'm looking for, it's a medical mystery
and the fact that we don't understand the ins and
outs of it. But they're not saying that it's a
one off. They're not saying, hey, this is just a
freak thing that this happened one time. They understand that
it's happening and they are working to understand it more.

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
I liked this story because it was cool to see
that in nineteen ninety when this airs, Robert Stack is
telling the world that this phenomenon that most people at
that time had no idea was even a thing. Now
in twenty twenty five, we are training dogs to do
this people. These dogs are I understand they might not

(01:25:54):
be super common. I know it's still hard to even
get dogs to do it, and a lot of dogs
won't do it, but it is now very well known
and has it has changed thousands of people's lives.

Speaker 1 (01:26:10):
Oh yeah, And from my understanding, they're even trying to
see if they can start doing it now for people
detecting blood sugar crashes instead of people like all of
these different things that our bodies have something inside of
us that is medically a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
You change chemically, you.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
Change chemically, And they're trying to figure out how if
we're able to be aware that this event, this medical
event that's coming up is going to happen, how it
benefits people's lives, So they can take medication, they can
get some more safe they can prepare, they can plant X,
Y or Z, whatever that looks like for people. I
think it's great. And I'm so grateful for this woman

(01:26:48):
and for her dog and this chance encounter that she
put two and two together instead of just thinking, Oh,
I can't take my dog back to school with me
because for some reason he reacts weird to the smells
or whatever, because it would have been a really easy
thing to just kind.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
Of do, would have been easy to excuse it as
anything but that, but that exact and she recognized it,
and then they recognized it together.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
And what I was saying is when she would when
he would react for her to do something, she in
a way for reaffirming you're doing the right thing, so
he continued.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
And for him to even recognize that these seizures were
dangerous for her is how do you communicate that to
a dog.

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
It's a great story.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
You can't even do that with children. They run out
in the streets when you let him out of the car,
like and you have to tell them a thousand times,
this is a dangerous. But a dog figured that out
just solely based on his observation of someone that he loved.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
He's an awesome dog.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
It's an awesome dog. We're so grateful for him.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
And I didn't even know him. But when they said
he'd passed.

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
I was clearly I like, was like, and Robert Stacks
just said it in like the most bull and he's
like and then the dog died, and I was like.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
Oh, exactly like he did.

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
Because our daughter was in the room with me and
she's like, WHOA, that was aggressive. She was like, excuse me, sir.
It's like, yeah, some people just react very differently to
animals passing away. I can watch all the true crime
documentaries in the world, but you throw in a death
of an animal and I turn into freaking out.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
I want to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
I don't want to talk. I won't watch that movie
ever again. I won't do that. So okay, all right, guys,
that is our episode. So before everyone takes off, just
a quick reminder, you've got two ways you can support
the Unsolved Couple in the show notes below. There's buy
me a coffee. We are gathering funds to upgrade our
equipment and to like I said, my goal this next

(01:28:39):
year is I would like to do a Patreon, which
would require some more technology. I'd like to get to
where we even have video recordings of our podcast, and
that's going to require upgrading. It's going to require you, guys,
getting Been a laptop and converting him over to that.
Or you can click the link support the show in

(01:28:59):
the note if you want to support us in a
zero financial way. We also means the world to us.
There's a few things you can do. You can follow
us on Instagram and TikTok or unsolf coupled pod. You
can share us with a friend. I do post almost
every day. You can share those with your social media friends.

(01:29:20):
And the other way that takes just a few seconds
of your time but really goes far in how we're
shared worldwide is to leave a five star rating and review.
I think specifically Apple podcast is probably the best place
for that. Spotify there's comments you can leave the more
comments and I interact with these people back and forth

(01:29:41):
on Spotify comments too, So please do that. And now
I'm going to ask me a silly question to kind
of wrap it up. If you don't like the banter,
you are welcome to exit stage right and we'll see
back here next week. And for everyone else that's sticking around,
here is your question, and Ben, okay, what is one

(01:30:03):
thing that you have epically failed at so bad or
something that you really have tried multiple times and just
can never seem to get good or write about it?
And this is a lighthearted phone this is not like life,
serious sad things, but just is there anything like that

(01:30:24):
that makes you think like I've always I've tried this
multiple times and I just never can do it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
You go for our crean Field persons when I got
I don't know. I mean, here's the thing, Doga Marong.
I failed at a lot of things in life.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
I don't know anyone, but this is meant to be
lighthard fut Like, I'll tell you one thing that I
really still did a day. I'm not great at and
it makes no sense to me. I really suck at
making pancakes and grilled cheese sandwiches. I fail at them
all the time, so bad at it, and why I
can make really complicated I've said.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
This already literally two weeks ago. You are an amazing person,
and I love.

Speaker 1 (01:31:03):
Cooking and I understand it, and there are so many
things that I can do well. So it's just weird
to me that this one tiny little piece of colinary thing.
And I'm sorry, but grilled cheese sandwiches and pancakes are
some of the most simplest things. And maybe it's but
I can like grill other things and I do just

(01:31:24):
find it them. But those two things. My cheese, my
bread is either burnt or my cheese isn't melted enough.
And my pancakes are either dense or they're still raw
in the middle. I cannot get it together. That's the
first thing I thought of when I read that question
or came like problem me. I was like, yeah, I mean,

(01:31:46):
I've tried longboarding and several other things. I have this
weird fear of, like, especially since that my brain surgery,
of falling, so I know that that's affected my ability
to be as brave. I would love to be better
at longboarding and be better at like rollerblading and stuff
like that, because I enjoy it, but I have this fear.
If I fill in my head right now, it would

(01:32:07):
be terrible, you guys. But the silly one was I
cannot cook pancakes or real cheese sandwiches. Don't ever ask
me to make them for you. I'm not good at them.
So casadilla though not much different. I can do just
fine on that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
Yeah, yeah, no, I know you'd made pancakes the other
night and I'd offered. I was like, I'll make them.

Speaker 1 (01:32:31):
I wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
I got it, and our daughter said she came out
Sarah and left. I was doing something and her daughter goes,
did mom make these? I said, yeah, she did. I
was like okay. I was like, I tried. I tried.
She said no. She was like, all right, I guess
I'll eat them.

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
I guess salt you yeah, And it doesn't even hurt
my feelings because no, it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Shouldn't because you're an amazing cook and it's just one
thing and we all we all got that. So did
that ring any I mean, I think I said this before.
I've tried like chopsticks several times, and I'm terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
I asked this question before you.

Speaker 3 (01:33:10):
Asked me something in this line, and I do remember, guys,
I've now come up with fifty something questions trying to
get get lighthearted and short time frame.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
I think it was just something something you tried doing
you just can't do associally kind of in the same way.
But you made you did send men to something something
I've never been very good at. I've tried it multiple times.
Roller skates this the four wheels in a square. I

(01:33:42):
can stay up kind of and I can do.

Speaker 1 (01:33:45):
Something it's fun to go to the skating rink with.
But because I'm actually pretty good at rolling, you are good.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
Everyone else seems to be just fine. But I can
stay up for a little while. But if I have
to ask me to do anything specific. I just yeah, yeah,
it's for you. No, I don't have a fear. It's
just the coordination. I don't know or or what's the

(01:34:13):
word the technique. I just can't quite figure out thenique.
But I will say growing up, I did a little bit,
but I went straight to roller blades because they were newer.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
Yeah, that was the roller blades.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
Roller blades were way easier, and so I stuck with that.
And then now I would you could not get me
on a pair of I would.

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
Love to actually try to roller blade again.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
No, I would never do it again because I don't
think it's that hard. It's not that it's that my
ankles give me problem. As I've gotten older, I have
major problems with my ankles and the fear of hurting
my ankles.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
That would have a deep impact on your life.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
So yeah, So we've gone to the roller skating rink
and with our kids when they're younger, haven't been for
a little while. We should go again sometime. It be fun,
But I've gotten on roller skates.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
We should do not big enough. An Unsolved couple world
in True crime podcast world, let's meet up some of
you guys and have a skate rink party Unsolved Mystery
style and we play nineties and two thousands music. Wouldn't
that be awesome?

Speaker 2 (01:35:28):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:35:29):
All right, here's this has been whole life, and we'd
be like I just had the best idea.

Speaker 2 (01:35:35):
Idea, I have an idea.

Speaker 1 (01:35:37):
All right, anything else you want to add to our question? No,
that's good, Okay, all right. We'll hope you guys enjoy
the visual of Ben trying to roller scale. Try to
get a video of it next time we go. But
join us again next week where Ben and I once
again recap one of your original gateway Drugs and the
True Crime. Bye and

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Murder, Money, and a Superhero Dog — The Cases of O’Neal Moore & Chuck Morgan

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Murder, Money, and a Superhero Dog — The Cases of O’Neal Moore & Chuck Morgan