The Soldier, the Killer, and the Lights in the Sky

In this week’s recap, Ben and Sierra revisit one of Unsolved Mysteries’ most haunting episodes. First, the strange disappearance of preacher and former POW Mark Dennis leaves behind more questions than answers — did he truly escape Vietnam, or vanish into a new life? Then, the chilling case of Ricardo Caputo, a charming killer who left a trail of victims across two countries. And finally, Vancouver housewife Dorothy Izatt captures mysterious lights on film that defy explanation. Three stories, decades apart — each testing the limits of what we think we know.

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Original artwork by @evelinejones3
* We’re here to share the stories and spark curiosity, but remember—always do your own digging! Everything we cover is based on public sources, and everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, I'm Sierra and welcome back to another episode
of The Unsolved Couple, where every week Ben and I
recapt one of your original gateway drugs into true.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Crime, Unsolved Mysteries.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Okay, we're recording. Now you have a hot mic. Okay,
hot Mike, Hot, my hot mic and hot takes. There
you go, there it is. How's it going?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm good?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
How are you? I'm good. We're finally here recording. It's
taken a minute, has taken ef tech issues the other
day had to stop before we even got started, which
was frustrating. But we're here. We're going to give the
people what they've demanded.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Demanded. Are they demanding?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
They are Benjamin David. Of course they are demanding it.
It's season three, episode Lucky number thirteen thirteen of Unsolved Mysteries.
Sure is.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Okay? Do you have anything to share with everyone?

Speaker 1 (01:19):
I really don't nothing, I think. So. It's been a
very calm, chill a few weeks here in the household,
at least that I can think.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Of joy it.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's not going to stay that way. No, And it's
not been a few weeks. It's literally been four days,
been four to five days, four to five days of
just kind of life, being a little chill. So I
don't have anything crazy to share.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Things they're about to get crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, so I don't know. I got a new sweach
for days at thrift store that is exciting. Yeah, it's
very Grandma, I'm obsessed with it.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
You need to wear that sweatshirt and I'll wear my
old man sweatshirt that I have. I have these knitted
sweaters that I wear sometimes and they are awesome.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
They are super company. I think that one looks very
calastin sul not be ninety seven degrees here.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
I don't want to talk about it, okay, labor, I'm
over the head. Yeah, and you know how I feel
about it.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, all right, everyone today, before we dive in, don't
forget to follow our show wherever you're listening, so that
we automatically just drop right into your feed and then
we automatically show up in your ear holes. You we holes? Well,
what else would you call them? Does that seem aggressive?

Speaker 2 (02:48):
It does seem aggressive. It seems a little aggressive.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, if you have a better term for it, please
feel free to just start writing the copy for our
plugs just ears. Okay, and if you're enjoying what we're doing.
Please take a moment to leave us a five star
rating and review. It helps more than you know. It
allows people to help find our podcasts and keeps us

(03:13):
bringing you more of the mysterious cases that you all love.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Mysterious are they though?

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, it's unsolved mysteries.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Sometimes it's not a mystery.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
All right, So I'm going to tell you about Richard Caputo.
This is I have a lot of thoughts on this case,
and I will try to stay focused.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
But I don't even remember this story good. I'll remember
it as you start telling.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Okay, July thirty first, nineteen seventy one, Nasa, Nasa, I
know this. It's in New York, Nasak County, New York.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
It's now I can't because you said it Nasaa.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
I don't think it's Nasawa. It's I don't know, Wall County,
New York. Dang it, I tell you now, I'm not
gonna this will this now for the rest of the
episode is just in the garbage.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Let's just skip where it's in New York. It's in
that county that we all know how to say it
because we've heard of this county.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
This county pops up in a lot a.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Lot of the Yeah, it must be. There must be
a lot of people that live there, Nasawa.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
I don't now, I can't now. It's in my head
and I don't know how to say it. Okay, come out.
It was just after eleven PM when twenty year old
if you could sip your drink a little.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Quieter, not like a metal cup and it's really loud,
should have thought about that story.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Like sipping it right into the mic.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I did it.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
I was out to the side apologize.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
So you guys hear my drink, it's because I put
it in a metal cup and it was a huge mistake.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
So don't sip on it. Well, I'll push.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
My mic away when I okay, sip in my drink.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
So, like I was saying, eleven o'clock at night, twenty
two year old Richard picked up the phone and made
a strange yet urgent phone call to the police. He
told them to go to the home of his girlfriend's
parents and that his girlfriend's name was Natalie Brown. Richard

(05:36):
and Natalie had been dating for just over a year.
He had planned to marry her, but Natalie had confided
to her friends that she was actually planning to break
things off. I would like to note that it does
specifically say he tells the cops that he was planning
to marry her, not that they had agreed to an engagement.

(06:00):
And that's we're going to see it.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Put a one sided relationship, is what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
When officers arrived at the Flower Hill home, they walked
into what can only be described as a nightmare. In
the kitchen against a cabinet lay nineteen year old Nataline.
She had been stabbed again and again and again, covered

(06:24):
in like there was literally blood everywhere. It was a
horrific crime scene, to the point where one of the
detectives said that in Nassau County, that's how you say it.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
There you go, you got it, nailed.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
It that in all of his years working there and
for this department, this was the worst crime scene he
had ever seen. So how did we get here? To
Nightlan's family? Ricardo had always seemed light, likable and even charming.
But appearances, as we have learned in the world of

(07:05):
unsolved mysteries, can be deceiving, and.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
In this case, we're in this case just slightly.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
And in this case, charm would become deadly. This guy.
I saw a picture of him. He was a good
looking guy, and he seemed like he could be very charming,
and unfortunately, good looking and charming doesn't mean good. After
his arrest, authorities learned that before coming to the United States,

(07:36):
Ricardo had been treated for mental illness in Argentina. A
psychiatric review there declared him or here in America sorry,
declared him incompetent to stand trial, and he was sent
to Oh gosh, matin mat and Swant. These eastern East Coast,

(08:02):
like New York names are wild.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
You can see East Coast. I think it's just the name.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's just here. I'm learning how to say things out loud.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
It's you know, don't you think it is funny that
we read things and in our minds we just see it.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, and then.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
When you have to say sometimes things out loud, it's
a mess.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
It is, especially if you have dyslexia. I don't know,
I mean maybe just I read Harry Potter all obviously,
just like with the open book and in my mind,
and then the movies came out later because we were
alive when the books were out without the movies. Yeah,
And then I went to the movie theater and we
went to the first movie and I was like, oh, yeah,

(08:48):
I understood the story and I got the whole context.
But the names of just about everyone except for maybe
Fred and George Weasley and Harry and Harry, I was
pronouncing them not even close to what they were.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
I would love to hear what your brain said, was Hermione, that.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Was actually the person. Oh that's how you say it.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
I mean, I'm sure you got Ronald, but I would
love to hear what your brain's say.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
No or Hagrid. But he wants to have how did
you say, Hagrid? I don't know. No one wants to
sneak peek into this brain. It's a mess up here, Okay.
So he's in the hospital for the criminally insane. It
was at this hospital that he would meet a twenty
six year old psychologist, Judith Baker. Judith believed in building

(09:38):
trust with her patients. She wanted them to feel safe.
Over two years, this man slowly gained that trust and
used it to manipulate her. By nineteen seventy three, with
Judas help, Ricardo was transferred to a Manhattan psychiatric hospital,

(10:00):
unlike the other one he had been at, this one
was far less secure. Patients were even allowed to leave
during the day. I don't understand this, you guys, this
get the seventh murdered. His girlfriend admitted to it, actually
called I called the police audience, and then was okay,

(10:24):
deemed to be incompetent to stand trial. So, like we
talked about in that one of the other episodes, rival
was like the one that just actually came out the
other day where it talks about then the state's responsibility
is to try to provide treatment to get that person
fit to stand trial. How we got from there to

(10:47):
like downgrading this person's like stay, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, it appears at least again how unsold med?

Speaker 1 (11:00):
What's it?

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, we have to keep saying that because some people
get upset that we miss things that we missings. But
that's because I don't think they quite understand. I don't
think they quite understand that we take a lot of
our information from all unsolved mysteries because we're recapping unsolved mysteries.
But it appears that this psychiatrist or psychologist I'm sorry

(11:24):
it wasn't sure, was vouching for him. Yeah, and it
appears that she was going to bat for him to
help him out.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
What happened here, I'm well aware, but once again, usually
there's checks and balances and things and anyways, Okay, so
these two begin to start spending more and more time together,
largely outside of the hospital.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
That's worrisome.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, I'm just saying it is she believed or some
believed that at this point their relationship had become romantic,
no kidding. Her family does deny that she was ever
romantically involved with this patient, but only saw him as
someone that she could help and like introduced them as

(12:19):
coworkers when she was out and about. So even her
family met.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Him, but she was taking him around her family. That
is worrisome.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
It is so Rolling around October twenty first, right around
the time of this episode's actually going to come out,
nineteen seventy four, Judith failed to meet her parents for
a family boating trip. Worried, they went to her apartment
in Yonkers. I just want to live in a place

(12:48):
called Yonkers. That is a sweetest this sweet name. Inside
they find they found dinner for two in the living room,
and in her bedroom they discover her body. She had
gained some diabolical strangled with one of her own stockings
and Ricardo nowhere to be found, also missing her car,

(13:15):
her checkbook, and some of her clothing.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
What was he doing with their clothes?

Speaker 1 (13:20):
I'm guessing he was disguising himself.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, disguise, diabolic, Yeah, takes years to gain to then
major planning.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, to play the long game. Okay. Six months later
he surfaces. Compudo surfaces in San Francisco. He had began
dating a woman named Barbara Taylor, a twenty six year
old book editor. The two even took a trip to

(13:54):
Yosemite National Park together, but Barbara soon told her family
that she was planning to end the relationship. March thirtieth,
nineteen seventy five, Barbara was found beaten to death in
her apartment. Once again, Capudo has poofed, Caputa poofed, He's gone.

(14:19):
Five days later, Mexican authorities turned over a man calling
himself Ricardo Diez to US immigration officers in El Paso, Texas,
but fingerprints revealed the truth. It was Da Da Da
Da Richard. Before he could be charged, he and three
other detainees armed themselves with makeshift weapons, took a guard hostage,

(14:43):
and a scopaid. El escopode is what they say in Spanish.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
I don't think that's what they say.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
All were quickly recaptured, except for Ricardo. He led into Mexico.
In Mexico City, he moved in with a young college student,
twenty one year old Laura Gomez. Two years later, nineteen
seventy seven, she's discovered dead in her apartment, brutally beaten

(15:14):
and stomped to death and had signs of torture. It's
gonna suck, yep, I'm like, even to make things sadder,
autopsy revealed she was two and a half months pregnant.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Courtly, he is an animal.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, this man is a monster some yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, I mean the world would be a better place
without him.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, And I think people wanted him behind bars. I mean,
obviously this system failed these women big time. And it's
hard because his second victim, Like I don't want a victim,
shame her. She was manipulated by him. But it's just
terrible that he was even able to go to Manhattan

(16:01):
in the first place. That's where I'm saying the checks
and balances failed because there should have been a secondary
person that needed to vouch for this guy to be
able to go to a smaller facility.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, I just and I think I'm sure it's better now.
I don't know the system.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
No, I don't either.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
I would hope that now if you are that they
look at the crime you're in a hospital for, and
certain crimes, even if you appear to be getting better,
would keep.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
You in.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Certain Yeah, I'm loshdown or whatever. I don't know. I
think that's outside of it.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
That's also going to be important when you have a
male female relationship too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
I mean, here's is terrible.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
It's the same. It is terrible. It is absolutely terrible.
I hate that she was manulated into believing that. Here's
the thing. Let's even assume that her family is correct
and she did not have a romantic relationship with him.
She just truly genuinely believed that she was being this
amazing doctor or this amazing psychologist and helping him and

(17:14):
rehabilitate him and do all of these things for him.
And he placated on that and took advantage of it.
That is awful.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, And I think people that do that, it's they
have a really hard job. I have a lot of
respect because here you have people that have a good
heart and the fact of they believe in trying to
help people get better. But unfortunately there are also people
not all that then try to like a book, that

(17:46):
try to manipulate that system, and they take advantage.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
And I'm sure that that's the story here on the
podcast that I at one point wanted to work with
the prison system. I really wanted to be eventually a
prison boarden really enjoyed learning about that and understanding it
and thinking that this could be prisons could be ran better,
and that so many more things could be done. And

(18:10):
I spent an afternoon in one got permission to go
to it, and you know, my junior or senior year
of high school. And by the time I left, I
knew that I was not cut out for that job,
because I am in for better or for worse. A
lot of times, I'm an optimistic in everything, and I

(18:32):
see the good and trust that people are genuinely honest,
good people, and I want to believe that and everybody.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
I mean, this guy's a serial kill.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yes he is. He is a seriocular and he needs
to be caught. And I thought, yeah, so he's linked
again to another killing. Years later, August second, in nineteen
eighty three, there's an author and activists Jacqueline has found
murdered in her Manhattan apartment. Neighbors identified Capudo as someone
they'd seen coming and going around the building and had

(19:02):
been trying to get into our apartment. He was also
suspected of a nineteen eighty one Los Angeles murder of Devine.
How long is this guy on out there? There you go?
By the time the police described by this time, the
police described this man as a chumulat. He seems to
be able to change his looks, his name, his entire identity.

(19:22):
He's charming, intelligent, smooth talking, and capable of sudden explosive violence,
and is officially labeled as a serial killer. And that's
kind of where unsolved mystery leaves us.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
We got to get this guy.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
You ready for your update? I am ready for my update.
March ninth, nineteen ninety four, ninety four, and get this
Richard turns himself in to the New York City Police,
confessing to four murders. He's convicted in the death of
Natalie Brown Judith Becker and sentenced to prison on October first,

(20:03):
nineteen ninety seven. Unfortunately, or fortunately, he only served a
few years because while playing basketball in the attic of
the prison. He collapsed and died from a heart attack
at forty eight years old. Wow, So my question is
that's already think that he's still made responsible for a

(20:25):
handful of additional murders, but he was never charged in
any of those cases.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
And how many other people? Yeah, if you're doing that
over and over every couple of years, it seems to
be from the seventies till ninety four.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, between here in Mexico. Yeah, it's terrible. It is terrible.
It's terrible.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
He was on the road, but I'm glad they caught him.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
And then he turns himself in.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
That's weird.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
It is weird. Huh interesting, very interesting. All right. So yep,
so there's your update. We don't have worry about that
loser anymore. You're gonna give us a go. It's your turn?

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Is it my turn?

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Do I have to bring something to the table.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
I would appreciate it, as I'm sure our listeners would.
I mean, we can sit here in silence and just
stare at you for an uncomfortable amount of time.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Do not tempt me with a good time. I could
do that, silence, I could do that. Does not silence
does not bother me. I know it doesn't bother some people,
not me.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay, but these people are for a podcast. A silent
podcast would not do that.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
That's a great idea for a podcast. Silent podcast.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Okay, whenever you're ready, Princess.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
You guys already hear the story of Mark Dennis. It's
an interesting one. Bear with me. This one was a
long one. That's why I only have one. And there
was only three stories on this one. Yeah. But Mark Dennis,
he was soldier.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
For explaining math to us, by the way, you're welcome.
Actually been listening to a lot of what's itid Shelby
Motion task masters in England. They don't just call it math.
They call it maths.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Maths. Yeah, in America, with.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Thanks for explaining maths to us.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Best, well in America, if you're like sophisticated, you call
it arithmetic.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Very good.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, okay, I'm not sophisticated though. All right, Mark Dennis,
he was a soldier in the Vietnam War. We're gonna
learn about his story and it's kind of a sad one.
And yeah, I don't know, it's all right. He's from Miamisburg, Ohio.
He joined the military in nineteen sixty six during the Navy.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
And uh.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
So, they said, he joined when he's seventeen, but he
didn't get shipped out till he was nineteen, gets shipped
out to Vietnam, does this tour, and he, you know,
I thought this was great. The family says he was
very he was very religious. He wanted to be a
missionary for his church or you know, just his faith.

(23:05):
And he said he volunteered because he hoped that by
him volunteering would mean one less person that was married
and had kids.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, to go, I think that's pretty noble. That was
a very noble thing.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Absolutely, And was.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
The draft for the Vietnam War, Yeah, that was. There
was a draft as well for World War Two towards
the end of it. Yes, yeah, I think so, Okay,
you know what, don't quote you on that.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
No, that's I'm pretty sure. Yeah, don't quote me on that.
I'm pretty sure there was.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
I think there was too.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Don't quote me on it. But I do know there
was a draft for Vietnam. That was one of the
big because I had a teacher in high school tell
me that. He told the story that his roommate in
college got drafted, and as you would imagine and college
kids at that time, there was a lot of unrest

(24:04):
going on.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
It is very divisive.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, there was some that didn't want to go that.
He his roommate got on the table and jumped on
his heels for a while to try to injure himself
to make himself like flat foot so that he wasn't eligible.
Oh that's how I that's how I remember that Vietnam

(24:29):
was that. Yeah, yeah, that's all I know. I didn't
ask questions about that whole thing. Yeah, I know. Anyways,
let's get back to Mark. Mark's a good man. He
then goes into the Navy. He becomes a medic, so
he was attached. He was attached to a marine company
in Dong Howe and it's close to the demilitary zone,

(24:52):
but it was in a hot zone. They were uh
it wash.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
All of Vietnam was a pretty hot zone, wasn't it.
Yeah that was gorilla warfare like it was intense fighting. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
I've read a couple of books on Vietnam and it's
uh yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
It was a rough war.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
So July fifteenth, nineteen sixty six, Mark was on a
Chinook helicopter with fifteen other Greens and they were coming
into an area and they were shot down. Their chinook
goes down. Everyone dies, but three people. There's three survivors.

(25:30):
And so obviously actually side research there was six helicopters
shot down at that area. Like that area, it was
a big battle and a lot of soldiers died there.
It's very sad. So obviously his family's told that he
has died in combat. It is terrible and August ninth,

(25:55):
nineteen sixty six, he is finally laid to rest at
home in Ohio. When they did deliver the casket, the
family was told, listen, you probably don't want to look.
There's not much to see here, Yeah, and probably should
just keep the casket.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
So they did that, and I actually think that that
might be the pin in this story.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
You don't think so. I don't. I don't think it
would have solved anything. But I think that if there
was any sort of guilt or regret of not doing that,
I think it opens up the seed for other things
to have to grow. That's my sort of thought. Yeah,
I don't know. I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Okay, I don't think so, but I don't know, I
could be wrong one hundred percent. I usually am wrong.
I'm always wrong.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Men are always right.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
So we get introduced to his brother Jerry. Okay, Jerry
is a big player in this huge Yeah, so you're
going to hear a lot of me quoting from Jerry.
So they bury their brother and their son. You don't
actually hear from the parents at all. They are not
interviewed at all. Just his brother is interviewed Jerry. So

(27:10):
they do that. Years later, nineteen seventy, November thirtieth, Jerry
sees an article in Newsweek, and in the Newsweek article
there is a picture of a POW. It's a black
and white picture.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
POW stands for prisoner of war.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, so there's a black and white picture of a POW,
and Jerry is convinced that this looks like his brother looks.
It's a very poor picture.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
It's a very poor picture. It has been black and white,
so that doesn't help. It blends a lot of the features, right,
It's yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
There's no facial features.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
But I could see when they put it up. I
was like, oh, I could see that being like that
looks well.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
If you see Mark, Mark is tall, skinny, and has
a long face. Yeah, but most prisoners of war are skinny, skinny,
they have been deprived of nutrition.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
This person is sitting down, so you can't see sitting
on a bed.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, and there's bars there anyways, doesn't matter. Jerry is
pretty convinced, Hey, that looks like my brother. So they
request his death certificate from the military, come to find out.
All so, there was thirteen dead on the helicopter because

(28:27):
technically there was sixteen people on that shinneck helicopter, fifteen
Marines and Mark, who is the medic, and they were
going into a hot zone, like obviously they were shot down.
They were going into help with some fighting, and he's
going in obviously to be a medic. So they request
a death certificate, and in the death certificate they find

(28:49):
out that his body was pretty much burned beyond recognition.
And they actually the way they identified that it was
Mark was through process of elimination. Everyone else they have
three survivors. Everyone else was identified with dog tags, but
Mark was not. They just they found thirteen bodies. They

(29:12):
eliminated the other twelve by identifying the twelve the last one.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
That was left. You're gonna see a series of like
unfortunate events here.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Absolutely, So by process of elimination, they identified that this
person was Mark. Okay, so you do catch I'll talk
about this in my update. The military desk tell the
family who that pow was in them, right, So.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, the military is aware. But wasn't that POW article
about an unnamed man? I thought that was the whole point,
is that this.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Was about I think it was about POWs in Vietnam.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
I will look it up because I'm ninety eight percent
sure that it was about like an unnamed pow Joe.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
It was in nineteen seventy one. The pow that it
actually was came home in nineteen seventy three, and then
they did another article on.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Him nineteen seventy one. Pow was it time next week?
News week? Okay.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
So anyways, so this opens up the door for the
family to question the military telling them if their brother
really did die that day in Vietnam. So, and then
his brother starts questioning it more because he meets a

(30:34):
man by the name of Steve Wilcox who was a
Navy dental technician. And Steve Wilcox tells Jerry of a
story that he met another guy who was a medic
in Vietnam, who says that he served with So I'm

(30:56):
getting names Mark served with Mark, and that he technically
he wasn't there for the crash, but he doesn't. He
says there was some weird things around the crash, there
was no medic bag retrieved or you know, recovered there,
and that he saw things in Vietnam and he didn't

(31:16):
agree with so he he's supposedly this guy who we
don't get his name, tells Steve, who then tells Jerry,
I don't think Mark died that day, yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
For some reason.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Okay, all right, hold on, let me I'm looking at
my notes to make sure, yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I know anything. Again, we start to hear from people
who probably think that they're going to help, and then
it actually just continues to make things harder and harder.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
So Steve Wilcox tells Jerry, Mark's brother this, and it
makes Mark even more suspicious about or it makes Jerry
more suspicious of Mark's death. Right, So they exhume the body. Yep,

(32:09):
So they exhume Mark's body, and of course they open
it up, and which is normal military procedure, his uniform
is laid on top. Under the uniform is a military
blanket with dog tags on top of the blanket, and

(32:30):
under the blanket is a plastic bag with Mark's remains
that have been burned.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
So Jerry then tells us that he's suspicious because the
dog tags. Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
So the photo was in the news article said quote
photo of identified pow. So they didn't name the person
in the article. That's where I think the confusion had out.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
But they did later.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yes, he did later, but again that's what I'm saying,
he did a whole other Originally it was about an
unknown unidentified yes.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
And so he thinks that's his brother, yes, okay, and
that's you know.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
But again then they figured out later who it was. Yes, yes,
so but it starts this snowball effect.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
That picture is what started this whole snowball effect. Yeah, okay,
So Jerry says when they he is looking at the casket,
he sees these dog tags and they look brand new.
He's even says when he picks it up, like a
bird from the metal cuts his finger and draws blood.

(33:40):
But they have bird marks on it. And he says, listen,
these are not dog tags that were worn. And it's
clear because his death certificate said he was not identified
from dog tanks. Now we get a man from the
military who then and he deals with this stuff. He says, yes,
this is actually pretty common, and this was common during Vietnam.

(34:01):
He says sometimes dog tags were lost, they were burned up,
especially him helicopters and helicopters were their main thing that
they use in Vietnam, so if that happens, they literally
were remade. New dog tags were printed in Saigon to
be sent with the body, so that's probably why. But

(34:24):
Jerry is very suspicious because they even have people test
the dog tags and it appears that they were burned
from a low grade fire. So he thinks that they've
made these dog tags, they burned them to look like
they had been in a helicopter crash and put it
with the body. So he thinks the military is trying

(34:45):
to cover up and trying to kind of cover their
tracks for his brother. Okay, so they even had an
a forensic anthropologist look at the bones that were sent.
He determines that the bones are from a body of
a man approximately five to seven, but Mark was supposedly

(35:07):
measured at five to eight. But the family says that
he grew more when he left for Vietnam, and he
was closer to six feet. And they also say that
residue on the bones was from the fire, was not from.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
What's the word.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
I'm looking for gasoline from a helicopter that it was.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
They're saying there's some sort of ignition source.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Well, there was like from lead and stuff, which is
not from a helo fire. Got it right, And I again,
this I did.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
I read. I read a book.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I think I've already mentioned this book before, but I
read a book on a A guy actually who flew
helos in Vietnam tells a story. It was an amazing book.
It was awesome. I don't I'd have to look it up.
But he talks about like that was their greatest fear

(36:10):
is getting burning from helicopter fuel. It burned so hot
so that they were terrified of them because it is nasty,
so fair. But we done again. We get another military
guy that says, listen, yes, there probably was like lead residue,
because in a helicopter, there is lead, there's paint, there's

(36:34):
there's guns, there's there's batteries there, Ammo, Like, it's not
just helicopter fuel that's burning there's all this other stuff
in a helicopter that are burning, and all that stuff
is catching fire and burning, which can leave residue. I
was like, you know, it's a valid point. But his
brother is Jerry is not quite convinced, obviously, so he

(37:00):
he petitions the Navy to change his brother from KIA,
which is killed in action to MIA missing in action.
So military says no, and he doesn't even really want to.
He says like, these are not my brother's bones. And
so the military says, listen, you can either accept those

(37:20):
of your brother bones or we will take them and
we will bury them in Arlington Cemetery under your brother's name.
So the family says absolutely not. They rebury the bones
and a side research they don't tell it, they actually
rebury it under it, and they name it an unknown soldier. Really, yes,
and that's important to know in my update.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Okay, so we should put a put a pin in that.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
So obviously, war ends in nineteen seventy three to nineteen
seventy five and POWs are coming home and they're hopeful
that their brother one of them. Unfortunately he is not.
So in nineteen eighty one, Jerry starts pressuring his congressman

(38:07):
to look into it. He does, so, the military again
does another investigation into his brother. They interview one of
the survivors from the crash, because, like I said, there
was three people that survived the helicopter crash, and one
of the survivors does say that he thought he saw
two people jump from the helicopter when it was going down.

(38:31):
He doesn't, He just assumed that they died, and so
Jerry thinks that that might have been his brother jumped.
They were over enemy territory, so maybe he survived and
he was taken prisoner. Okay, but you know, we again
we get a military and it's like, listen, he says
they jump, But he says.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Also we've had two bodies missing at the But.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
He also says, listen, he recovered thirteen.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
They recovered the correct amount.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
We didn't recover twelve. We recovered thirteen. And also we
also got the military guy. He says, listen. We also
have a pilot saying the smoke was so bad they
couldn't see anywhere.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, so it's.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Possible he thought he might have seen him jump or
and I mean, if you've ever seen a Chinook helicopter,
they're massive yeah, are they.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
The double bladed one?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah, yeah, the double bladed ones they are.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah. We live by the Air Force base and so
we've seen a lot of these helicopters, and it is
if you see it in person, the chinook is it's massive.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
And he says, he goes, it's possible that they fell
to the back of the aircraft. You just lost sight.
So I mean, there's a lot of possibilities here.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
So he's not trying to he's just saying, listen, possible.
But we all but I thought his point was very
well made. We did recover thirteen bodies, so all right.
So December nineteen eighty six, Jerry is still he's going
to Washington, DC. Like he is very adamant, and he

(40:11):
buries is a good point. He just feels that the
military has not taken care of his brother.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Fair.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Okay, So he's telling this story. They're at a bar
in DC and he's telling the story to someone else.
He's there with his wife, and a man interrupts him
and says, listen, sorry, I just overheard you. I was
a pow from I think he said sixty four or
sixty six or sixty four to sixty seven.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Something like that.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
He says, he was a pow for three years during
the time, during the time that his brother was killed
in sixty six, so sixty four to sixty seven or
sixty four to sixty eight, something like that, And he said,
I moved around to multiple camps. He goes, and I
knew a guy. He goes, there was a guy that

(41:04):
I knew by the name of Dennis. That's Mark's last name.
He goes, he goes, well, what was his last name?
You know, Jerry asked him what was his last name?
He goes, I don't know. We mostly went by nicknames.
He goes, well, what was his nickname? And he said Preacher.
And so, of course Jerry is very moved by this
because his brother wanted to be a missionary and he

(41:27):
was a medic, and also he'd just written home that
he was a chaplain in their unit at the time.
He was the acting chaplain. So preacher would be a
very name that his brother would use everything.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
That could have happened, as far as like giving this
family like just enough hope to ignore everything else keeps happening.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, So this automatically reinfirms Jerry that his brother is
was at least lived past that that.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Person Jerry, was not his brother.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
And that the remains that they have are not his brother,
and he wants the military to acknowledge that. I want
to put this. There was a man by the name
of John Rodgers. He would he works for the military,
and he says, listen, I have He goes. I feel
I know and have become friends with Jerry. He goes,
and I have done everything in my power to try

(42:25):
to convince Jerry and on behalf of the Navy that
the remains that they have is his brother.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
He goes.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
It makes me very pretty much, is like it makes
me said that he refuses to believe that that is
his brother that we have given.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Grief is a fickle thing sometimes.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
So Jerry comes back and says, listen, that's not my brother.
And the military, he goes, I believe if I walked
into the military office with my brother in hand and
he was alive and well, they still wouldn't believe it.
They refuse to believe that my brother was.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
It's a very interesting thing to to me. Couldn't they
military show him anything to believe that his brother that
they had the remains of his brother? Do you know
what I mean, Like, he's saying that about the military,
but I don't know if he took a moment to
think that same thought about himself.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
I think it's it's very complicated.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
It's a very complicated situation, and update.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Is going to be even more complicated.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Okay, So this.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Is pretty much where Unsolved Mystery leaves.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Okay, go ahead with the update.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
So we do get a little bit of an update.
I'm going to tell you what Unsolved Mistakes tells us a.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Little like, hey, this is some things we found out
post production. Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Robert stat comes back and tells us listen, after we
air this story, the military contacted them and said, hey, listen,
we actually have a few more details you guys might
be interested in that wasn't this is me using these words.
That was not portuy d correctly. Okay, So they tell
they say, listen, we identified that pow in the Newsweek article.

(44:10):
His name was Paul Gallante. And he goes and we
actually told the family that we gave the family that
information that hey, this was him. And then there was
another Newsweek article on Paul Gallante in like nineteen seventy five,
and there's a picture of him on Newsweek, and he
tells his story and that's that's him, right. The military

(44:32):
then says, hey, listen, we actually combed through our entire
records and there is no So I'm sorry. Let me backtrack.
The man that talked to them in the bar that
said I was a pow and I met that man
named preacher. His name was John King. Okay, he tells
them that my name was John King, I was a pow.

(44:53):
I met your brother also, and I forgot to say this.
You know, they showed a picture of Jerry showed up
the guy. Hey, and John King says, yeah, that's him,
that was one hundred percent. I know that's him.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
That's him.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
So of course that that convinces them so unsol mysteries thing.
The military says, listen, we actually calmed to records in
zero branches of the military, Navy, Marines, Army, Air Force.
Was there a pow by the name of John King
and I and more research than that guy was a fraud?

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Are you serious? So what is the point.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
That guy is a horrible human being? So no pow
by the name of John King?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Was that ever?

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Help?

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Do you remember the story about the lady who pretended
to be part of nine to eleven, that she was
in the towers when it happened, and like, no infiltrated.
Oh okay, that's a podcast for a different day. But
I think there's a documentary. But there is a woman
out there that pretended to be a victim of nine
to eleven for years and it just it's things like this,

(46:01):
and I'm like, where do people get off?

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, I don't know. It's it is wild and it's
very upsetting to think that someone would do that too,
like I said, especially to hear this story and to
then all of a sudden, it's not like this guy
concocted that plan beforehand. He's sitting there listening to a

(46:27):
family talk that are probably grieving. Obviously they're still grieving
overbearing their brother and to insert yourself, yeah, no words. Anyways,
So military contacts on all mysteries say, listen, we scoured
our records. No man by the name of John King,
who is a pow Okay.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
And with the.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Direction and the help of the military again, this man's
he was exhumed again and they looked at the bones.
They did an X ray of three vertebrae, and they
had a name a man by the name of doctor
John Fitzpatrick whoever, who is a forensic radiologist, look at

(47:13):
this X ray and he matched the X ray of
their brother before he left for war to the bones
in the casket, and he said there was an exact
match of these three vertebrae. So he says, this is
a positive identification. They contacted Unsolved Mysteries contacted Jerry, his brother,

(47:36):
asked for a comment, and he says, I still don't
believe it. So that's Unsolved Mysteries update.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Okay, I have more of another, right Ben, give us
your update.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Let me just make this very clear. It's a little confusing,
and I'm going to give you what I have, but
it's supposedly not supposedly, but in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen,
the DNA test was done. Jerry, the brother died in

(48:10):
early two thousands, unfortunately, still believing that they didn't have
the full story of the peace.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Wherever we end up in the next round.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Twenty sixteen twenty it was actually twenty seventeen DNA testing
was done and it was positively identified as Mark.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Okay, so the remains that the family got were the
correct ones. Maybe, so.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
I could not supposedly April fifth, twenty seventeen, those remains
were laid to rest his sister who lived in Colorado.
Those remains were sent to Florida and buried because they
dug it up again under the bigness the unmans, the
unnamed soldiers and Ohio tested it, identified it and identified that.

(49:06):
The sister then had them remains cremated and buried next
to his parents in Florida. Okay, there, Steve Wilcox, who
we talked about earlier, wrote a book. Now I could
not I scoured, scoured, so I did. Let me back up.

(49:28):
I found an article from twenty fifteen that the remains
were tested for DNA and they were not a match.
What Yes, Steve Wilcox and their books.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
They've been cremated.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
And the sister did that and so that this could
be done, said, I did this so that this can
be laid to rest, because the person who pushed for
the remains to be tested in twenty fifteen was the
dog of the sister. So like the niece, this family
has been fighting this battle. But Steve Wilcox wrote a

(50:08):
book and he said in his book, now I could
not find a second source on this. So take this
for what it is. He said, an expedition was done
in twenty fourteen of that site because, like I said,
six helicopters crashed.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
At that site and.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Under some debris that was still left, remains were found,
and those remains were supposedly tested and were a positive
match for Mark. Either way, Mark died that day. Unfortunately,
I don't, like I said, Steve Wilcox's book is the

(50:53):
only thing I could find about that expedition. In twenty fourteen,
the sister is saying, listen, we're done. We have a
positive match that this was my brother. My brother died.
She cremated the remains and said, we're done with this.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
We are ready to let our family.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Grieve at I want to bury my brother next to
my parents and leave this in the past.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
So, but articles were saying that the remains in Ohio
were the ones that tested positive for marky multiple articles, okay,
And you know how I feel about.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Multi You should have a few sources.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yep, I always feel but if you read the articles,
they're scanty on details and just here's the ending.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
And I only did find that one article from Denver,
which is where his sister lives that the remains supposedly
were tested in twenty fifteen weren't a match. I didn't
find a second one. I've found multiple because obviously they
did a bunch of articles that hey, this man was
finally laid to rest in this family. Either way, it

(52:12):
does appear Mark died that day. Yeah, And it breaks
my heart that this family that they just they chased
a ghost. I don't know if they chased a ghost.
Here's the thing. They wanted answers, And it does break
my heart because I don't think the military was trying

(52:35):
to cover anything up. I don't think the military was
trying to hoodwink the family. But there was also a
war going on where hundreds and thousands of our young
men were dying, and the military was doing the best
they can. Is it possible that the remains were not
one hundred percent I don't know. I don't know, but

(52:55):
I do think that no one was trying. There was
no ill wall here. But I also understand that the
family wants answers, and they do want to bury the
right person. I can respect that. I don't know what
it's like to lose a family member in the battle
of war yet, and so I can't. I just it
breaks my heart that this family had to go through

(53:16):
what they went through, and it breaks my heart that
you know that they were uncertain about what had happened
and wanted answers. But I will say I did read.
The military did four investigations. This man's remains were exhumed
four times over the course of forty fifty years. It's

(53:38):
not like the military did put in and so did
the family. So hopefully I think we got an answer
and if anything, if anything, the family has clearly.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
The family's decided that they were going to grieve and
move on. So yeah, well, I mean I hope that
they're able to find solace however that looks for them,
because it's a tragedy. I mean, war is no matter
what you know.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
But I'm thankful for his service, his family, his family,
service to the country, and.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, thank you for that. Okay, all right, are you
ready to talk about Canada?

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (54:19):
This is a we love our Canadian brothers, and this
is about Canada.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
This is about what UFOs Canadian UFOs. It's all the same,
talking about you.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
There's no difference between a Canadian UFO and just a Uh.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
There is a difference between the Canadian UFO is very
polite and it says a no, and they love maple syrup.
Are those all the stereotypes about Canada? Is there any
types about Canada? I don't know. But who they love
to puteast on their French fries.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
I think you're mixing Northeast.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Oh no, no, no, whutane is a Canadian delicacy. I have
a Canadian friend. I will actually I've got a few
Canadian friends. I'll send him a message and ask him
if putane is Northeast or if it's Canada.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
They what though, if you've never had real maple syrup,
you're missing house.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
I went to so good.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
I went to upstate like the organic real maple syrup.
You can buy it your fancy whole foods, but like
legitimately from the small farmer in like the Northeast.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Yeah, that's us. I went to.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Nor uh Potsdam.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Yeah, upstate New York and right on the Canadian border,
and we went one day, we went to.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
The sugar I don't know what to call it, superhouse
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Yeah, the sugar house, that's what they call it. And
I bought real maple syrup from them.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
That you bought the did you buy the sugar too?
Like the leftover like crystallizes and you can buy maple sugar.
And it was so good.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
And I cried a little bit when we ran out
because I bought a jug and it was gone, and
I wouldn't let the kids have it because they didn't
appreciate the goodness of that.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
They still don't. They want the cheap like, yeah, whatever,
it is great value whatever. They love it. Okay, So
nineteen seventies. Since the nineteen seventies, a strange series has
been taking place, Yes it has. Lights have been floating

(56:38):
around over Vancouver, which is in British Columbia, Lights that,
one might say, defy explanation. The most frequent and most
detailed reports have come from a singular source, a woman
named Dorothy. That's right, a homemaker and another of four Okay.

(57:05):
Dorothy's first sighting occurred November ninth, nineteen seventy four. Benjamin,
stop laughing. Aliens are real. They're getting ready to land.
I mean, by the time this episode comes out, we
might have already experienced them. From that comment that's coming
our way. Oh my gosh, that is a TikTok rabbit

(57:25):
hole that I love going down.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
I'm glad I'm not on TikTok.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Dorothy was fifty two years old and she was in
her kitchen making tea as one does, and suddenly felt
as though someone was watching her. So, no, I hate
that feeling.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
She get that?

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Oh, yeah, yes I do. I get it in public sometimes.
Actually that's where I mostly get it. Is I feel
like someone is definitely just like hyper focusing. It makes
me so uncomfortable. But I've had it when I've been
like home alone.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Maybe I'm just unaware.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Yeah, I think you're a man so like. And that's
not to say bad or good, but I just don't
think you have to be aware of someone like watching you. Yeah.
So she walks over to the window, and hanging there
in the night sky is an enormous diamond shaped object
spinning slowly flashing bright colors. Rather though than being afraid,

(58:22):
Dorothea felt a sense of privilege, as though she was
being allowed to see something extraordinary. Her husband and children
brushed off her story. Mom, she probably had too much
wine that night. The Skeptic is a motivated Dorothy to
prove that she wasn't seen an airplane or a star

(58:45):
or that she wasn't going crazy. One night, she took
a flashlight outside and she flashed it three times to
the left, and the object in the sky moved three times.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
How did this story make it?

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Some sawty times to the right, It moved times to
the right. Oh it didn't up down zigzag. No matter
the movements. The object in the sky mirrored her movements exactly.
Dorothea was stunned. This wasn't in her imagination. Whatever it was,

(59:19):
it had intelligence determined to document it. She began filming
the lights. You are laughing, And I worked like really
hard on writing this script so that it would be
well told. Ben, SOI is well told.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
I'm not saying it's not well told.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
What she said she saw with her eyes or simple
glowing arms. But when she showed slowed her eight millimeter
film frame by frame, she found something startling.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Do you want to know something? When I get us
off a little bit, when they said that, that's where
I realized that movie eight milimeter or what.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Super eight, super eight, that movie is so good because
that's an underrat they called.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
They call it a super eight millimeter camera. And that's
when I realized, Oh, that's where super eight got their name.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
I don't know if that's exactly where they got their name,
but it would make sense because in the movie, oh,
in the movie. Yes, you're not saying it's based on this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Story, No, no, no, I just didn't realize the camera
was called a super eight man.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
That was Ben like bul moment. Thank you so much
for sharing that one. You're welcome, and that is a
great movie.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
If you know what, that movie is better than this story,
I think so, yes, one hundred, that's Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
So she slowed her eight millimeter film frame by frame
and found something startling, something mesmerizing, sudden bright bursts of
light that, when frozen, were actually colored streaks and lines,
almost like patterns of communication. Dorothea used at least three

(01:00:53):
different cameras, and each time she recorded a similar phenomenon phenomenon.
Why do you have three cameras because of skeptics like you?
Because you can't it would be well that camera did this,
or that was that? When is it enough? Ben? When
is it enough for people like you? Tell me you're

(01:01:15):
never going to come exactly, So that's exactly so this
story is not for you. This is for my UFO friends.
So sit down and be quiet, except if you have
something important to say.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Everything I have to say, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
So she used three different cameras. She had even had
individual frames blown up into photography or into photographs. These
she sold them.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
These images revealed beams of light shooting between objects, as
if messages were being sent back and forth. Sometimes, she said,
a brilliant beam would shine directly down on her, illuminating
her yard. By the late seventies and eighties, Dorothea's footage
had gained Poppopulaire had gained popular reputation within the UFO community.

(01:02:03):
I'm sure she had accumulated more than twenty five hours
of film and over three thousand photographs, and she's the
only one in this town that has all this stuff.
Didn't know the objects were trying to give her a message.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Of course, they're only talking to her. I didn't know
exactly where she lives, visit her.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Phone, and A psychiatrist who spent time with Dorothea said
she believed that she was sincere, that she wasn't lying
or making things up, even though he couldn't say for
sure what the objects were. A photographic expert reviewed her
film and said it did not appear to be faked,
but suggested that the lights could be some court of

(01:02:42):
natural phenomenon rather than an extraterrestrial craft. Shocking so, one
visitor named Jerry came to Dorothea's house out of curiosity.
As he sat and listened to her describe her experiences,
he suddenly felt a bizarre sensation in his right ear.

(01:03:02):
When he mentioned it, Dorothea smiled and saying she had
felt it many times before. Less than a minute later,
Dorothea pointed out the window. Jerry turned and saw, to
his shock and awe, a bright metallic object covering in
the sky. Dorothea continued to film, convinced there was a

(01:03:24):
message hidden in these pictures. She said that the lights
seemed to come closer and closer over time, and each
film yielded even clearer images. Her self described mission was
to keep documenting this as long as she could, hoping
that one day someone would understand what it all meant.
And that's kind of where Unsolved Mystery leaves us. Are

(01:03:50):
you ready for your update? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Yeah, give me the update. Where are the aliens? Did
they show up?

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
When Unsolved Mysteries visited Dorothea's home, she claimed that the
lights were present, and they filmed them themselves. While her
camera did show the familiar bizarre light patterns, the network's
cameras did not pick anything up. Are you trying to
tell me, Dorothy the lights? For decades, she passed away

(01:04:17):
January twenty ninth in two thousand and one, and to
this day, her photographs and films remained unexplained. They have
been examined by many experts before, and there can be
no there's no visible signs or evidence of forgery or
any sort of manipulation to her cameras, but they can't

(01:04:39):
be explained. There's people on both sides of the aisle
saying that they think they're faked, but they don't know
how she faked it and they haven't been able to
recreate it. And then there's a lot of experts that
think that these are genuine. So it just all depends
on if you are a good person like me or
a loser like Ben and who doesn't want to believe
in anything.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Is I don't think I'll be honest. I don't even
think she was like trying to hoodwinkny.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Oh say from what I because I tried to read
into this. She never profited off of this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
I don't think she.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Never tried to make money, She never tried to sell
her story. She never seemed to do anything other than
feel like she had a calling to record this stuff
and keep record of it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Let me make this very clear. Okay, I'm not even
calling this lady a fraud. I'm not Yeah, I'm not
calling her that she tried to, you know, to see
if anybody. Yeah, right, I think she went out there,
she videotaped whatever she did. I am just amazed at one. Clearly,

(01:05:42):
she goes out and films all the time, and she's
the only one in this entire country seeing this, and
they clearly are just looking for her and moving for her.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
But when they're photographed over big cities in multiple people videotape,
but you still don't believe it happens in Phoenix all
the time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
And I whatever, that's my thing. But again I go
back to this. I saw the pictures. There's just weird.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
They are weird lights.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Yeah, okay, that is weird. My question is how did
we get from picture of weird lines of light to aliens?
How did we make that jump? That's a really far jump,
like we jumped the shark on this you are telling

(01:06:33):
me that there can be zero more explanations between filming
weird lines of light and aliens, that there might not
be another explanation in that gap. Really, that's what we got, aliens.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
It's always aliens been how do what? I don't know,
You're just not it's just lines of light.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
I'm telling you, Yes, you probably filmed, you filmed that
you believe aliens at all?

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
No, No, okay, I mean there you go, and that's musing.
That's fine, that's a I would say that that's probably
the normal. I think I'm a fringe person. I do
believe in aliens, and I believe that they've had multiple
encounters with people since the dawn of time. So do

(01:07:38):
without what you will.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
You believe that guy was up in Massachusetts or Maine.
He got taken by aliens.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
So the guy with the beam malit at the very
early on.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Yeah, that was the best story, hands down, best episode
of Ensor.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
I did believe the first guy. I think military last
Time guy. I didn't believe a handful of the other ones,
but I did believe the Lost Time guy. No, no, Ben,
I've been done some rabbit holes where even like old

(01:08:14):
carvings in like, you know, the incas and all that
stuff that have portrayed some sort of flying object and
different beings and stuff. I'm like, oh, yeah, that was
the aliens coming down and visiting and sharing intelligence. Absolutely not.
Do you ever wonder how we ended up marrying. No,
fundamentally we have so many different beliefs.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
No, don't. I don't wonder because I love you dearly
and there it is your personality and who you are
is why I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
That I believe aliens are real.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Yeah, heusing. I'm a very boring individual. So if I
were to hang out, if I were to marry someone
like me, it would be a very boring marriage.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
I enjoy it, Okay, I enjoy it. The why Independence
Day starts taking place? Do you feel like it would
take you longer to accept what was happening or you
would be able to shift your mindset pretty quickly, because
I really feel like some people like, let's just say,

(01:09:17):
if like you are so staunch in the belief that
this absolutely is not like let's say you even see
Bigfoot whatever it is in the forest, and you're like, no,
I know fundamentally at my core that this is not
a real thing. So it takes longer for the acceptance
to change.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Sure, Like, absolutely, it would take me longer to accept
a fringe thing. Yeah, other people like I'm not afraid
to admit that. But if I turn the news on
like an Independence Day and CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, NBC,
whatever are all showing me the same picture of a

(01:09:56):
spaceship over New York City, I think that maybe it
would take me ten seconds longer to believe it, but
I think I would dive in.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
I almost like, now though I'm AI, stuff freaks me out.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
You know, that's a valid point.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
I almost think I would have believed it more ten
years ago. There.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Absolutely, I think we all would have.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Because I've seen all kinds of crazy videos on TikTok
and stuff that look legitimately like a real encounter of something,
and I'm like, I can't buy that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
AI can make that but anything. Yeah, but yeah, I mean,
and maybe that's a valid point. I don't know, Yeah,
but yeah, I would absolutely it would take me longer
to buy into aliens. Here's the thing I do try
to at least say, listen, I'm willing to accept it.
You got to just give me really good evidence, And

(01:10:49):
maybe I say that, and someone would bring me evidence,
and I would still.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Would say, yeah, I don't think you would probably probably
what is the evidence? Is it going to be video?
You're probably I would probably just X Y or Z,
because I could probably pull up everything that we have quota,
we've got testimonies, we've got sworn aff David, we've got video,
we've got pictures, and you don't buy any of those,
and that's about your most solid amount of evidence you're

(01:11:12):
going to get. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm not
afraid to admit it until it happens to you Personally.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
I think we all want to believe we're open minded,
but I don't think we're as open minded as we
think we are. I'm pretty staunch in my way, so
clearly so maybe I'm ignorant, Maybe I'm that's a douchebag.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I just
think interesting. I will say, you don't seem to this
year laughing at and having a little bit of so
this is fun, genuinely believe that they'd had this crazy,
terrible experience. You wouldn't treat them horribly. You I wouldn't
even empathy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
I wouldn't even tell them they're crazy or that their
story is out of line. I would say, Okay, I
wouldn't believe it, but I would keep it to myself. Yeah,
because that's just I am a being from believer in
people's personal beliefs, you know, and respecting that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
But if you're asking me to just buy into this,
I thought this story was a little I was amazed
and made it to unsolved my stories.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Yeah, to me, as far as like alien stories, she
didn't have any major encounters as far as that it
was lights in the sky, you know, and so but
I do love talking about aliens. I find the whole
premise of the universe pretty fascinating. I'm following this comment
that I mean, I mentioned you two you months ago

(01:12:39):
about this comment that was coming through.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
I saw a picture of it today. It is fascinating.
I'll give you that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
I mean, it is an interstellar object and it's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
I saw close up.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
And you've got you've got some professors making there's a
Harvard professor specifically like making some why he's pointing out
some things that's saying, hey, this is not consistent with
what we know about interstellar space travel. Okay, cool, we
don't know a lot about it because we obviously we
can't evacuate.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
That is raise a question we know everything? Yeah, if
we don't know everything, then they're very well.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
In other posts they say, hey, we just know about this,
so we need to I mean, I'm sure that there
is a handful of people that wish we could intercept
it and study it because we could learn a lot
from it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
That's what I'm talking about. This guy comes out and says,
this is not consistent with what we know. Yeah, and
there's a lot of people some I should say some,
not a lot. There's some people that come out and
they're literally saying, well that means that this is aliens
instead of saying instead of looking at it that way, like, oh, hey,

(01:13:48):
this isn't what we know about it. But it's possible
that we go for.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
This thing to be Aliens. I would love for it
to be. But do I think it's more along the
lines the fact that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
But the answer could be these are the things possible
that this is something new that we've never learned before,
and now we're going to learn it, and we all.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
Have a small window to learn it, and we can
study it. But again, the next interstellar object could be different,
because exactly, it just goes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
To show that we don't know everything, and all he
was saying was what we do know, which is little.
This isn't consistent, so we're learning something.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
New about that. Mathematically and scientifically, the way we understand
mass and matter and all kinds of stuff, this one's
not lining up with it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
But again, but I also find it fascinating. And I
also enjoy the conversation, even though I might not believe it.
I enjoy the conversation. I enjoy the conversation of aliens.
I enjoy the conversation of Bigfoot.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
I love you would love Bigfoot to be real? I would.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
I literally have said that. Do I believe it? Not really,
but I would love for it to be real. I
am here for it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
I love these And you know why I love these
conversations because they're fun and they're fun and easy, and
it's it's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
Simple and it allows us to have imagine, which I
think is something that we lose out on as we
get to be adults.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
And it's not talking about serial killers that go around
in doing terrible things to them all over the country,
like that douche, like that douche.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
All right, Well, that is our recap of season three,
episode thirteen of Unsolved Mysteries. Please make sure to follow
Ben and I on social media. We are on TikTok,
un self Coupled Pod and Instagram same name un self
Coupled Pod ninety percent ten percent Ben he I do point.
I do share things with him that we get through

(01:15:34):
there if you send us messages and different things like that.
But we do post a lot of lease stay, I
post a lot of extra content on there. It's a
great way to show your support. It's a great way
to connect to us and find out what we're doing
and what's going on within the pod. And yeah, make
sure to leave if I start rating a review all

(01:15:54):
of those things. If you don't want to stick around
for our question, you are feel free to exit stage left.
And Ben, I here is your what is the silliest
thing you have ever convinced somebody to believe?

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
That is a good question. It goes back to some
of our prank questions.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
And you guys, I was saying prank culture needs to
come back, not where anyone gets hurt or dangerous, but
I love scaring people I love being scared, and pranks
are the best. The world is a better place. People
try to control with these things, and people end up
like doing Really, if anything involves illegal or dangerous, it's

(01:16:40):
not a prank. You're just being a menace. That's that's
not a perky.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
I don't know. You're going to have to go, and
I'm pretty sure I know the story you're going to tell,
and it is awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
I don't want to steal that one from you because
I have another one, so you can take that one.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
No, the one I'm thinking I wasn't a part of.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
Oh you weren't a part of it? Yes, okay? So
when Ben and I were I can't remember we were
engaged in dating or first married, but we went down
to my parents' house in Myrtle Creek and I took
you to Wildlife Safari for the first time. Remember, huh? Yes, okay,

(01:17:22):
and my sister Brandy was in the infect I think
all my siblings were in the car thingk. That was
part of this. Yes you were? This was the one there. Yeah,
do you want to tell? This is yours? Okay, Okay,
go ahead, I will tell this. Do you not remember
being there? I was so convincing is that you and
I leaned in on this one together without question. We

(01:17:42):
didn't rehearse this before. We just saw a moment and
jumping in.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
This is why Sierra and I are so good together
because we one of us takes when we see an opportunity,
we take it and you don't have to tell the other.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
And either no one overplays it help We just roll
with it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Yeah, and this is why we're beautiful together. His I
don't I have said this so many times on this
podcast that your e is awful. Yeah, terrible. But yeah,
we went to all the Safari and after.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
Nope, you are okay, I'm gonna have to tell the story.
We were there. We were in the drive through. So
if you've been, if you've ever been to southern Oregon,
this is worth traveling too.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
In fact, but there's a lot of these around.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
No Wildlife Safaris world known because of their cheatah breeding program,
But they have a drive through Safari Park and it's
just to drive through zoo and there's part of most
of it. You could have your window down. You can
see these animals up close. They've got bears and cheetahs.
Those ones you do have to roll your windows upore.
But it's really cool. And I think I took it

(01:18:54):
for granted because I grew up there and we did
this all the time. Every field drip was wildlife. So
we're driving through and I can't remember exactly how it
got started, but between Ben and I having a conversation
and talking loud enough so that people either heard us
and jumped in, but we started talking about how tragic

(01:19:19):
it was that Jurassic Park didn't work out, because the
experience of getting to drive through wildlife safari is so
cool that like it's a real shame that we never
got to experience Jurassic Park. And my sister was like, wait,
that is a real place, and I was like, yeah,

(01:19:40):
the movie's based on a real story. And this is
before Google, right before we had not before Google, but
no one had a smartphone so.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
They should Yeah, you didn't have a smartphone in your pocket.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
And we both start like sharing facts about things that
we know from the movie, like convincing so that within
several minutes, my sister and if anyone knows, Brandy, like
this will ring true. She was fully on board. The
Jurassic Park was based on a true story based on
a true park where this actually did happen and a

(01:20:15):
scientist had figured this out and then it had gone
awry and everyone died, and so the park never was
actually able to be opened in the early nineties, and
that this is as closest we're going to get as
driving through wildlife so far. And I think she believed it.
I need to double check with her, but I think
she believed it for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
I think we rolled west that for a while well.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
And I think it was years later where something was
said and she's like, wait that you like realizing that
we and like then you realize, oh my gosh, I
cannot believe I fell for that. But when we were
first married in two thousand and seven, she was what
in high school still or just like just graduated high school?

(01:20:57):
She was, yeah, yeah, so that that was a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
I forgot about it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
Yeah. The other one I had for a while, me
and my roommates in college I lived in San Diego.
We started like this thing. We told our parents and
like several people. And this is again before people could
google things that originally there was an alternate ending to
Free Willy, that the well fell and like killed the

(01:21:24):
boy in the ensulten name was sad instead of it
being a happy ending, that's terrible. We told so many people,
I mean hundreds of people between the for the whole year.
Anyone that we met, we'd be like we would tech
casually like talk about how we got to like see
the original ending of it, and then they had to

(01:21:45):
like pull it from theaters and redo it because like
the feedback was that this was like another terrible like
My Girl or like whatever these other movies were, like,
the ending is just so tragic and terrible. Do you
remember My Girl where the kids gets stung by being dies. No,
she's a spoiler alert for anyone who had seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
Ever seen them. I don't even know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
You've never even seen that move. Macaulay Cochin is in it,
and he like makes best friends. He's like a young
kid Slummer crush love, and he gets stung by a
bee and dies like in front of his best friend.
She's got to go to his funeral, and she like
puts his glasses on him because he can't see without
his glasses.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
I have no idea what you're talking about. I can
say that with one hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
Per Anyways, there was a handful of movies in the
early nineties that seemed like happy kids movies and then
had terribly sad endings to it. Right Homeward Brown almost
got there. I swear that it is a great movie,
but it is a tear jerker. But it all works time,
I know. Anyways, So we convinced a lot of people

(01:22:56):
that is the original ending a free Willie and included
that iconic scene, but that he like falls and not
get over the jump all the way and the boy dies.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
And I thought you were going to tell the story
of scaring your sister.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
At the barn. Oh, well we didn't, you brush.

Speaker 2 (01:23:17):
You know, we convinced your sister that something terrible had
happened and that some kid had gotten lost. And the
last time I were.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
Not even were we even boyfriend and girlfriend at that point.

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
We were dating at the time, we were dating casually aka
actually we could be dating other people if.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Your sister was. It was your younger sister Brooke, yeah,
not the other one. Yeah, And we convinced her that
something terrible happened. And the last time this kid.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
That involved Dutch my roommate too, she was in on
it as well. That a red wagon a kid had
pretend to run away from home with a red last.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
Time I seen he was with the red wagon. And
right as we and that we.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
Got it's like an abandoned was like a Salloween prank.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
And we went into some abandoned barn there was there
was a red wagon there, and right knowing about it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:07):
We had gone to this abandoned house the day before,
but you didn't know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
I had no idea this story.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
Yeah, And right as you're telling about the red wagon,
I kicked the red wag.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
And I turned my flashlight off as I was telling
the story. And like you kicking the red wagon and
me turning the flashlight off happened exactly the same time
I'm playing. We should have known at that moment, right
then and there, that we were meant to be married.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
Your sister screamed. I think she even pushed you to
the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
Brandy was also with us. She pushed Brooke to the ground,
ran to the car, locked the car and would not
let anybody in the car. Brandy bailed on everybody, threw
her little sister onto the ground, and locked the car.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
Getting aimed so loud, both of them.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
That was it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
That was That's why I'm making someone con That was
just a prank. It was great. The world is a
better place with cranks. I the wholesome fun pranks. And
you know what, it's Halloween time. Yeah go plan challenge
to everybody. Yeah go find a good, wholesome.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
Scare people in a fun, safe way, get a good
prank out, get a good brank going on.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
It is a better place. You're a better person there.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
Laughs. At the end of everyone, they don't You don't
want that person in your life. If someone can't take
a prank or being like the subject of a prank,
that is like the Lipmann test of whether or not
you want them in your life. That's right, because if
they are mad and scream and freak out about it,
you don't want that kind of person around.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
Don't have a good prank with somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
Okay, guys, Well, we will be back next week where
Ben and I retap another episode of Bye