The Voodoo Killer, a Gothic Heiress & the Canyon of Bones

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody, I'm Sierra and welcome back to another episode
of The Unsolved Couple, where every week Ben and I
recap one of your original gateway drugs into true.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Crime unsolved mysteries. Question, Okay, do you now understand I mean,
I'm now coming to a better understanding.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Of football since I gave you all that information.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
As they say, how people make a living doing just sound?

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh yeah, why tech and audio people make so maybe
not so much. There's a whole career, but there is
an entire career. Yeah, that I do not understand. And
YouTube is helpful, but yeah, audio, We've been sitting here
for or what thirty minutes as to.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Other people, some people don't know how much works here.
It puts in just the beginning, just trying. Even though
it's the same thing every time it appears, and I
don't know because I'm not behind the computer, it appears
it is almost different. You have to do different things
almost every week, even though the setup and everything is

(01:25):
the same.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah. I have toly goest to numbers every week just
based on our influxes. How close you are to the
mic or sometimes how not close you are to the mic. Yeah,
I don't know but it has the numbers have to
be messed with and equalized every week.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
So seems fun, which is why other audio things probably
don't get done, because I just want to produce something
that people can listen to without a buzzing or a
clicking or a whatever. At some point, I'd love to
get to the point where I can like hyper focus
on like nasal sniffs or something that everyone naturally does

(02:10):
when you're talking and polish those out. But that's that's
a project for another day there and then been just sniffed. Anyways,
Did you have a good week this week so far? Babe?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
First, Yeah, you had a three day weekend, which was nice.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Had two to three day weekends and that's been glorious.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
I have taken the last two saturdays off.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
And how long has it been since you've had a
week like a normal Saturday, because even pre current job
you worked, I've always worked reach Out.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I've always worked some type of weekend and.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Was a lot of people lost prevention at Macy's. And
you do you need lost prevention seven days a week.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
There's a lot of people out there. We worked weekends,
We work weird ships. That's fine. I'm not even complaining,
but I have worked almost every Saturday in my career. Yeah,
and I've taken just the last two saturdays off just

(03:20):
to be home. Obviously, I've had weekends off for vacations
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
But our yards never hasn't looked this good in months.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah. Yeah, did yard work. I got stuff done, and
I loved it because I got up early, everyone was
still in bed, and I turned on sport College Football
the morning college game Day that starts at six am
and runs till nine. And I sat in my living

(03:53):
room by myself and watched that and loved it. Then
I watched college football on Saturday. Support good, wonderful. How
was your week? Good?

Speaker 1 (04:05):
It was a busy week for me, real quick, anyone locally.
I I've participated in a few things with a little
local theater company and they did a production of The
Mouse That Roared this weekend, which is just like a
comedy about the time era of the Cold War. It
was a very fun play. It was very cute. I

(04:26):
got to do it with my oldest son, small cast,
very simple production staff as far as like no major
crazy tech or set or anything. And it was a
lot of fun. It was a great play. I really
enjoy doing live theater, so I'm exhausted, but yeah, good

(04:46):
week lead tech week is always you know, week of
show is always crazy weekend. Three shows in like twenty
four hours. It was great. So support your local arts guys.
If there's a community theater in your area, sign up
for the shows, buy the tickets. Go because there's a
lot of work that gets put into it and everyone

(05:07):
makes exactly zero dollars doing it. They just do it
because they love getting to bring the arts to the community.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
It was fun. Our other two kids and we saw Saturday.
It was It was a fun show.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah it was. It was a good time, all right.
So today we are recapping what been season three, episode twelve,
well before we dive into our four stories today, just
don't forget to follow the show wherever you're listening. If
you enjoy what we're doing, please take like one minute
to leave us a five star review. As an independent podcast,

(05:44):
that is literally one of the best things you can do.
It helps all of the major platforms push forward our
podcast so we can get more listeners, and it just
helps us to keep bringing people in so we can
continue to bring more of these miss Darious cases to you.
If you've done all those things and you'd like to
support us more. We have a buy me a Coffee

(06:06):
link listed in the show notes. Please feel free to
hop onto that. I am currently manifesting that we can
buy these amazing beautiful microphones. We need two of them,
and we have a little bay window in our room.
And I saw this setup the other day on a
podcast where it was just two chairs with a little
tiny circle coffee table between them and they're talking into

(06:30):
the microphones that are set up on the coffee table.
I'm like, we could do that in our recording area,
which is our bedroom, and just have it there permanently
and never have to do this whole up and down setup.
Da da da da da so and if we did that,
then we could also bring it to YouTube as far
as video recordings. So I know Ben's really excited to

(06:54):
get to that point.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Some cases have answers, ours, they have theories, lots of them.
I'm Sierra and I'm Elizabeth. We're the host of Lesbian Detectives.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
Every week we pull apart true crime stories, code cases, disappears, murder,
and dig into every possibility.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
The official story, the whispered rumors, the evidence that doesn't
quite fit. We follow the clues wherever they go, even
if it means asking the questions nobody once.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Answered, because the truth isn't always in the faust. Sometimes
it's in the theories. Lesbian Detective, where the truth is
never's great new episodes every week wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Okay, Ben, you're gonna get us started right with our
four stories, with the all four stories. Yeah, Ben's gonna
just tell us all by memory and go.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
I'll be done in about fifteen minutes, real quick about it?
All right? Now? First story is reel like story, the
Treasure of Skeleton Canyon. You ready, hold on, I'm gonna
pull up my notes.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Do you want to give your disclaimer to the people?

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yes? So disclaimer. I tried doing notes different this year.
This year this episode. Sorry, I'm trying to look at
something and talk at the same time, and it doesn't
go well for me.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
But he claims that he can read on his phone
and listen to me at the same time.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
He wasn't reading. I was looking at a map. Okay,
fair so, so I tried doing notes a little different
this episode. We will see how it goes and if
it's if it bombs, well, so be it. It's it's

(08:56):
our podcast. So all right, are you ready?

Speaker 1 (09:01):
I'm ready.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
So this is a story, like I said, of Skeleton Canyon.
Supposedly there is a treasure there. Okay, this is a
canyon that runs from Mexico into Arizona back.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
In our neck of the woods. Again this week. This
is two weeks in a row, isn't it. No, I
guess we had one a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, yeah, at least I think so. I honestly, I
can't remember. This all just blends together. All of this
blends together. That's why I was looking on the map
when you're trying to talk to me and trying to
get an idea where this is. I've never been there.
It's more on the eastern side of Arizona, near the

(09:45):
New Mexico border. But supposedly this canyon runs from Mexico
in to Arizona. It's along that, like I said, the
New Mexico border. So supposedly there is a story a
buried treasure in this canyon from eighteen eighty. Okay, and
we get some we get three people that are talking

(10:11):
to us, and I'm going to introduce you to the three.
We got Hunter Pritchard, who he is like ahead of
some society. We talked about this to.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Talk about and I think it was a It was another.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Episode where the society is people can tire societies part
of and then they can be an expert. And then
we get Robert Palmquist who's a historian, a local historian.
And then we get fern Hamill, who is a treasure. Okay,
these are your three experts that we're going to get

(10:48):
interviewed by. Hunter Prichard tells us that he spent a
night in skeleton camp. Okay, and I wrote his uh.
I wrote it one of his quotes down because it's
great that when he's spending the night he says something
in the lines of my hair. Never it was always

(11:13):
stood up the entire twenty four hours he was there.
And he says, I just had a second sense that
there's something going on, too much to go on that
went on here not to be a treasure. So there's
your that's how we know the treasure is real. That

(11:36):
you had a second sense.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I knew, but I started talking like that. Ben was
going to be like, I have to take everything you
say seriously.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, because well his sixth sense or his second sense
is what he calls it. There is something going on
there that told him there's treasure here. So clearly I
have to believe that because that has always worked in
his Just be that you.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Were sleeping in the pitch black Arizona desert, like by yourself.
I think I'd be freaked out the whole time.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Oh, it's because there's a gold berrier underneath this pillow,
supposedly somewhere. Robert Palquis, he's a historian. He's like, no,
there's a He's like, no, there's no treasure there. I
don't know what you get to talking about. And then
fern Hammel, he's a treasure hunter. He says, he goes
it's a known fact that it's real. They says, this

(12:36):
treasure is one that is real real. He uses reel
twice to tell you that, just because people say that
things are real that actually might not be real. But
if you use reel twice, that means it is real
and you have to believe it, even though it's a
known fact. Even though he doesn't tell us how it's
a known fact. He just says it's a non.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Fact because he says real real, because he said real
real wi Okay, all right, I believe them.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Okay, Now let's get into the story. Supposedly, in eighteen
eighty one there was a group of Mexican bandits who
robbed the town, robbed and looted the town of Monterey. Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Supposedly they made out with Monterey, Mexico.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Okay, and they'd stolen all this loot and they were
going to smuggle it into the United States and I
don't know, spend it here, maybe hide it.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Well, Tombstone was happening place back then. Maybe that's where
they were trying to get to.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Maybe. So Jim Hughes, who was part of the Curly
Bill Brocious.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Game, he goes, that is an awesome name.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
It is actually a pretty sweet name. He goes into Mexico.
He speaks in Spanish, okay, and he uh, you know,
rubs elbows with these guys. He hears about this like
oh hey, and he makes he makes it in he
infiltrays this. He's accepted into these bendidos. Okay, right, they

(14:06):
tell him, hey, yeah, we got all this treasure. Because
that's what usually bandits do after they rob they just
start telling people, you know, especially strangers.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Strangers that didn't have anything to do with Robert.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
They start telling, hey, man, guess what, we got all
this money and we're going to smuggle it, and hey,
do you want to know our route? So that they
tell him they're out, Hey, we're going to go through
Skeleton Canyon. Okay, don't come with us, Okay, just we're
just telling you here. You stay here, and we're going
to take all this stuff.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
So what does Jim Hughes do. He goes back and
he tells his uh yeah, and he says, guys, I
got this in. I make good with this gang down
there who's really awesome, and they stole all this money,
and they're going to come through Skeleton We're.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Going to steal it and we're going to stop them.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah. So the Billbrocious gang, they wait for them, the
Skeleton canning. What do they do. They ambush them, start
shooting them. Now you yeah, and they're like there's coins
flying everywhere, the people running around and supposedly, I mean,

(15:17):
in reality, if this is true, they committed a horrific
act because they just slaughtered a bunch of people to
rob them, right, And of course here the mules. Because
there's so much loot, they got to put them on
mules and take it through the canyon.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Okay, did the mules make it out?

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Okay? No, they had to shoot the mules because on
this story, they were afraid the mules were going to
run off with that stuff and they couldn't. Clearly, they
couldn't hop on their horses and chase the mules, so
they had to shoot them. That makes sense, right. So
now here we are all this treasure, so much treasure

(15:58):
weighs all this.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
What do we do and throw all over the place?

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Shot these mules that were supposed to carry the treasure,
and now we can't even carry it, So they divvy
out some of it and the rest of it that
they can't carry. What do they do? What does everyone
do when they get a watch.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Treasure, a guide on the mules and walk with them.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
That's that's a great question. Don't don't ask that question.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Okay, but I've been shot for being like, hey, boys,
I have a great idea.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
So they bury some of it because that's what everyone does.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
What is with everyone that's like, hey, I've got all
this gold, I'm gonna just bury it.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
I don't want to spend it. I want to bury it.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
I did here in the now. This is as historically
accurate as I can stay off the top of my head.
The Donner Party did bury a lot of things because
their hope was that they would be able to come
back once they because they were so far behind. They
were trying to shed weight X Y or z, and
they buried things in hopes to be able to get

(17:03):
to California and then turn around and come back and
get it later.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Burying gold bars.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
No, some of them were burying money and valuables that
they were hoping to get back. But again I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, but this is how every treasure's story goes. Yeah,
these guys, they steal it, they carry it somewhere, and
then they bury it for some reason. Okay, they don't.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Take the money that they stole.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
They according to this one, they took some of it. Okay,
they head into town Tombstone, Tucson wherever to spend it
on spell.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Guys, if you don't know the history of Tombstone at
the time it was open, it had like the most
brothels and bars and like gambling like per capita and
the like. Entire Netflix did like wild West.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Netflix did a series on white Urban Tombstone.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, it was about it, so people going there to
just it was the Las Vegas of the South of
the wild wild West.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
It's really good. If you haven't watched it, go watch
it if you like that kind of stuff. And I
love the wild West stories in that so I like
these treasure stories. It's just it's funny to see how
serious some people take this stuff. But anyways, said bury it.
But we've got two guys in the gang. They double
cross the gang Billy Ground and h Zwing Hunt. Yeah,

(18:25):
they decide, listen, we're going to head back. So supposedly
they head back to take the rest of it.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
They decide they can carry more or they've dumped their load,
and then they're going back.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
So they they get a Mexican teamster.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Okay, guy with a mule.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Mule and a carriage head in there. Okay, supposedly, then
they kill him. Unbury the treasure, put it on this thing.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
But take those mules those ones are.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Okay, yeah, or the wagon I don't know. Okay, Okay,
they take the treasure. They hide out in a cave
for months, okay, because they're afraid that their other guys
from their gang are gonna come looking for him, so
they got to hide. So, you know, so they got

(19:21):
they got. Sorry, I'm looking at my nose.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
I mean, he're sing. We do know people hid in
those caves between there's caves all over this area, and
they have found tons of evidence that people camped and
them stayed in them. There has been.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
All right, So Billy Billy, while he's in this cave, says,
you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna write letters
to my sister. So he's writing letters to his sister.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
The post office came by.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
And supposedly there's some route along there, and he would
ride out there and hand the letters.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
To these people, the mail guys, I guess, yeah, the
Pony Express, yep, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
And he decides to listen, I'm gonna send these letters
to my sister, and in these letters, I think it's
a good idea to tell her everything we did and
where we buried the treasure because they then take it
and then they bury it again, because that makes sense, right,
And they hide in the cave. But they're hiding in
the cave but really close to where they buried it. Okay,

(20:21):
just saying them. It's all very important.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Billy tells his sister all these details. So this is
where we then get our friend hammil What to say,
Fern Hammel back, Okay. He says he has seen these letters,
nine of them, with his own eyes, and has copies

(20:45):
of them. Refuses to let unsolved mysteries see him or
show it to them, because treasure.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
There are very but they're real, real.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
But they're real real, Okay, and I I wrote down
some of the things he said. He said, like he's
found He's found all the clues. He literally says it.
He has found all the clues that Billy had wrote
in the letters that he's seen. And he says, when

(21:16):
I once found the right place to look where everything
fits and everything is there, he's found everything. But you
know what, he's not found the treasure, the treasure. Yeah,
but he's found everything else. Okay, he found the cave,
he found all these clues that these guys told of
where the treasure is buried. He just hasn't quite found

(21:38):
that treasure. Shocking, probably shocked and more below probably it's
always too it's always.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Two more feet, yeah, two more feet.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Then we get that palm Quist guy, the historian back
and he actually brought up a good point. I thought
it was funny.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
I knew you would appreciate this, he said.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
You're telling me this nineteen year old kid who'd come
over from Texas just decides, Hey, I'm going to start
writing letters to my sister and telling her everything and
drawing maps like not. And I'm like vallid point, Yeah, okay,
all right, So when we get back to my notes here,

(22:19):
they hide in the cave Herisai's sister. Supposedly the sister
later on went out with another man and lived out
there in the desert for two years looking for this
treasure a brother had said he buried. And they know
that because they found a patch.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Living out in the desert with me for two.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Years with you? No, definitely not, and I love you,
but that would you would? Would we would last two years?

Speaker 1 (22:49):
We worship last two.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Days and two years in the Arizona desert.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
That's here's the thing. I don't even know if I
believe that story.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Well, yeah, but they'll reason and they believe it is
because supposedly they found a vase that says it has
the name Maggie on it. And supposedly that was.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
The sister of I would love to know how Cammon
the name Maggie was back then.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
And who takes a vase with them while they're out camping?

Speaker 2 (23:16):
That was the other question I had. But yeah, I
don't know. I guess if you're planning on living there
for a long time, you've taken as much as possible.
I don't know, all right. Eighteen eighty two, our story
takes a turn. Billy and what I say to you,
Swing Hunt Swing. They get in a shootout with a

(23:37):
sheriff and a posse, and Billy is killed. Hunt is
wounded pretty bad. He supposedly is laying in his bed,
think he's gonna die. Confesses to his uncle, Yes, we
got this treasure, and he draws a map for his
uncle Fern. He's also seen the map, our treasure. Hunter.

(24:05):
He's also seen this map. He won't show it to us,
real real, though it's real, real, he's seen it, won't
show it to us.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Are a different breed, they really are.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
And here's the thing. I can respect it. I got
nothing against church. I got nothing against it.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
I'm weirdly into rock counting And here's the thing. I'm
very amateur. I do not go out to but if
I'm like vacation somewhere or doing something, I'm like, oh,
I want to do this. I just assumed that this
was like a loving, welcoming community, and you could say, hey,
where's a good place to go look for like these
Arizona diamonds are up in pace and they're just like,

(24:42):
they're not diamonds, they're just called that. I don't have
time to explain the science behind that. But I asked
in a group of like twenty thousand people on Facebook, hey,
we're going to be up there, is there a good
place to go look for these? I assumed I would
get feedback.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
No.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
I had a so so many a hole trolls that
were like, how like you do not? Apparently people are
like highly real, real I have the best place I
put here's pictures of all of the things I've found
in this area for twenty years. There seems to be
an ample supply of these Arizona diamonds. But no, I

(25:20):
shalt not tell you anywhere around there where to go,
Like they are so cut throat and top secret about it.
I think the fishing community is the same way in
the hunting community, like if you feel like you found
like your honeyhome. Yeah, I don't know. Anyways, that's what
it's like a whole thing with treasure people too, and

(25:42):
I don't understand it all right.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Anyways, Supposedly he draws, draws as uncle a map fur
and see it can't tell you. He's flying around in
a helicopter looking for this. We get video of him looking.
He says, it's real. Supposedly, there was an earthquake in
eighteen eighty six, so they think that that has buried

(26:05):
the treasure deeper. Two more feet, he says. He thinks
it's at least twenty feet deep.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
So aggressive.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Anyways, that's pretty much where I on sold Mysteries leaves us.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
I did like the apart from the historian that said,
what about the accuracy of the town in Mexico that
was robbed?

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Suppose So he does come back and he says, listen,
I don't think this is rare. He goes, Maybe there was,
he goes, but he does say the first reports from
the Mexican government at that time was yeah, there was
alluding in that, but the treasure did not It's not
as big as what it said, because the rumors of
this treasure is that it's worth anywhere between two and

(26:46):
a half million to eight million dollars. Okay, So, but
the historian is same.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
There's no nowhere near the evidence of that.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
The reporting wasn't that that that much was stolen at
the end.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
There was enough stolen that they would have had even
anything really to bury. Yeah, they would have had enough
to get into the next thing.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, spent it wherever they wanted to spend it, and then.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Go on to the next Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
So I thought that was a good point. Again, at
the end of the day, it's just it's another treasure story,
which that's all these stories are, is their legends passed
on from generation to generation. And that was the one
thing the historian says that we actually never have real
legitimate it's always two steps removed from the original. You

(27:35):
never get to see the documents, you never get to
see the map.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
It came a telephone for sure.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, and so.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Any updates Has anyone found this?

Speaker 2 (27:45):
So yeah, I have looked. I looked even for our
treasure hunter, Fern Hammel. He was actually a resident at Tucson,
passed away in twenty eleven. In the age of ninety four.
He was not just a treasure hunter. He was very
much in the community.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
He really enjoyed the history of this area.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, and I respect that. I got nothing. Here's the thing,
treasure hunters, not yourself out man. I think it's great.
I think it's it's a cool hobby. It's fun. It's
fun to tell tales and thinks. I'm not saying it's
I'm not even saying it's a lie. I have no idea,
but it's fun to continue to pass these stories on.
Just don't become so obsessed that it did not appear that.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
No, we've seen other people who like leave their families
go into debt to do this.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
I want to hear him his living here locally and
looking at it. Yeah, he even says at the end,
listen like ill, I'm gonna keep looking for this till
I find it. Okay, But no, there's this supposed treasure
has never been found. They do believe. I guess they
continue to find bones and coins in that canyon that

(28:53):
makes them think that that treasure is real. But it
is a canyon between Mexico and the US.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
That a lot of people probably use to travel and
traverse and probably not the most upstanding people.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, but who knows. At the end of the day,
it's still a legend.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
It does look like a really pretty air I wouldn't
mind going and trying to hike some of that if
there's any sort of national forestry or park are because
it did look very beautiful.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
It did look it did look pretty. So that's what
I was looking at the map of it. But that's it.
No no updates, no treasure stopping.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Okay, well, there you go. There's a treasure down in
Tombstone between Tombstone and New Mexico. Good luck, everybody. All right,
we're gonna take it down just a little bit, and
I'm gonna tell you story about it that we only
know her by her name, Debbie. I'll be upfront with
you guys from the beginning. We never know her full name,

(29:47):
so I will refer to her as Debbie. If there
is anything that anyone knows that any reporting has changed
this information, please let me know and I will do
a little thing about it. Because we've had this before
where people have been anonymous on unsolved mysteries and then
later have come out with more information and wanting their
story shared. With their name. So on the afternoon of

(30:11):
March twenty second, nineteen ninety two, State troopers Chris and
Ron are parked alongside Route ninety five just outside of Fayetteville,
North Carolina. They had pulled over to compare notes during
a routine patrol when something unexpected happened. Out of the
woods about seventy five yards in front of them, a

(30:36):
woman appears. She walked staggering towards them, covered in blood.
Trooper Knight went on to say, era down the quote
quote she walked out of the woods, staggering, she had
blood on her shoulders and was coming in our direction.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
I'm just saying, first off, yeah, this is man. I
believe the chances that two police officers just happened to
be parked on that spot the internet intersting for her
to then be able to come out and stumb one

(31:20):
to them where they are the people? I think there's
no cell phones there if it was just.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
This was nineteen ninety Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
Guess what police officers said, great radio to be able
to call medics immediately. Yeah, No, I mean still whatever happened.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, I mean that that in itself isn't work. But
also can you imagine sitting there. No, you've bidden your
patrol ride before. You imagine just sitting there and having
someone covered in blood staggering towards you.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
It's wild.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah. As the troopers got out of their vehicle, they
ran towards her. She actually collapses on the ground. Night
is able to stay with her while the other their
trooper radio is in for an ambulance. The woman is
rushed to a local hospital, where they figure out that
she had been shot in the face with a twelve

(32:11):
gauge shotgun.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
I thought I said it was a double barrel.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah, it might have.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, I don't remember, but it doesn't matter. Shotgun, that's space. Yeah,
that is why.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
The entire left side of her jaw is shattered. She's
got no teeth, literally, like her lower part of her
mouth is just hanging out.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
She didn't have any identification on her and obviously couldn't speak.
It wasn't for ten till at least ten hours later,
when her condition finally stabilized that she was able to
write out her mother's name and phone number on a
small piece of paper. Police learned that she was forty
three year old secretary from Winston Say Them, which would

(33:01):
be my dream place to live, about one hundred and
twenty miles away. And this is where we find out
that her name is not Debbie and that she's asked.
From my understanding, what I'm gathering my assumption is is
that this has permanently disfigured this woman's face. Yeah, and

(33:25):
it was something because her sister's interviewed, and we'll kind
of go over that later on. I think as a woman,
she was struggling with everything else, but that was just
one extra layer of trauma on top of that. And
so we find out that she has asked to be
referred to as Debbie, and she's interviewed, but she's done

(33:47):
so in shadow you cannot see her. Detective kin Bishop
from Winston Salem worked along with the case alongside the
Fayette investigators. He recalls like that the doctors pulled him
aside before he went in to talk to her in
the hospital, like how shocking her appearance was, in order

(34:09):
to minimize his reaction, and he tells us, quote, it
was probably the most severe injury I had ever seen
and had a person survived. That should tell you how aggressive.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, yeah, that's I did notice that, quoting that he
was like, Yeah, that was the worst that see someone lived,
Ye be able to live to tell the tale.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Despite her injuries, Debbie was able to write out in
detailed description of her attacker and even worked with a
sketch artist to create a drawing. So what happened? How
did we get here? Because she's nowhere near her hometown.
Nine in the morning, Debbie left the First Union Bank

(34:53):
in Winston Salem after making a large cash withdrawal. As
she gets into her gray station wagon, a man carrying
a shotgun slips into the passenger seat and forces her
to drive. This is I just have this crazy fear
of people getting into my I had this almost happen

(35:16):
one time at a drive through. I was maybe seventeen
or eighteen years old, and I was at the Jack
in the Box in Roseberg, Organ which is right next
to like a really big busy street, and I had
gotten into the habit because I worked late at night
of like locking my doors and I can't even remember.
I don't think my car at the time had the

(35:37):
automatic Back in the day, you'd like manually lock, and
so my car was usually locked in all of the
other doors except for my driver's seat, and I was
in the parking lot. It was late. I must have
been coming home from somewhere, so it was probably after
ten thirty at night. And some man in my peripheral

(36:01):
vision I couldn't see, and tried to open up both
the back passenger door and the passenger front door. And yeah,
no cell phone, like terrifying, and so I ever like,
I'm really crazy about locking all of my doors.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
But you remember the guy that did it at the
Mini mark here. No, we were parked at the Mini
mark here, look gas station. Uh huh you I can't
remember if you were driving in the passenger seat. You're
in the passenger seat. I stopped put air in the tire,

(36:39):
so I was bent down on the other side of
the Bible. Oh yes, attire. And you started yelling at me.
And I stood up and there was a man trying
to enter the back of our vehicle on the other
side where I was at. Yeah, and he opened the door,
and our kids were little, they were in car seats

(36:59):
and they were Yeah. I started yelling and I once
he saw you, I got physical with him.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
I literally grabbed him by the collar and chucked him. Yeah,
and started yelling at him.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
And he never even answered you, no.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
He just looked at me, and I still to this
day don't know what his.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Plan was or what I'm glad we don't know what
his plan was. Yeah, yeah, okay. So he gets into
the car for us to drive. First off was a
liquor store just a few miles away. The man held
onto her car keys and warned her that if she
tries to get attention or do anything, he was going
to kill everybody inside the gap or inside the liquor store.

(37:37):
He goes in, he buys whiskey, returns to the vehicle.
From there, he orders Debbie, excuse me, I just bought
my mic to get on Interstate forty heading east. For
the next four hours, he makes her drive towards Fayetteville,
drinking heavily, bragging about how he's killed a man in

(37:59):
New York and is continuing to get more aggressive and
angry as the trip goes on. He'd stay silent at times,
and then other times he would rage and was like
physically abusing Debbie as she's driving. Debbie wrote down on
a piece there's literally no reasoning with him. His behavior

(38:21):
was irrational. About three miles north of Fayevielle, the man
forces Debbie to pull off the road in a desperate moment.
She does try to escape, running deeper into the woods.
And actually Trooper Ron had spotted that car pulled over earlier.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
They didn't see this. He didn't see her running, He.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Didn't see her running, but he just sees an abandoned
car on the side of the road. Yeah, and he
actually had planned to go check it out, but a
speeding car flew past him, and so that became the
priority where because that's the immediate danger as much information
as he has. Meanwhile, Debbie's attacker catches up with her

(39:08):
into the woods. This is like every horror film we've
ever watched. Yeah, beats her up, sexually assaults her, and
shoots her in the face, leaving her for dead. Just
miraculously she survives. The next day, Debbie's station wagon is

(39:32):
found abandoned three hundred miles away near Hammett County, Hamilton County, Florida,
just south of the Georgia border. Investigators researching the Fayetville
crime scene recovered a dark blue pea jacket and a brown,
brown clothed gloves, both of them smelling strongly of petroleum,

(39:55):
which is a very distinct smell. Detectives believe that the
attacker may have been a mechanic or someone who worked
with motors, or possibly a driving driver of a heating
oil or fuel truck. Well later, Debbie gives authorities detailed
description of the man. He's an African American male, mid thirties,

(40:16):
five six to five ten, one hundred and fifty one
hundred and sixty pounds, close cropped hair. On the day
of the attack, he was wearing a blue short sleeve
button up shirt, faded jeans, and an off white baseball cap.
Despite the brutal assault, Debbie displays an extraordinary resilience after

(40:38):
she'd have multiple reconstructive surgeries.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
I imagine.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
She hyper focuses on just trying to rebuild her life.
But she makes it very clear on Unsolved Mysteries that
she will never feel safe. Yeah, She's always looking around
could yeah, until she knows that this man is caught.
In her own words, she wrote, I wrote down, I'm
going to continuously feel like he's out there and he

(41:07):
might also hurt somebody else.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
What a terrible story.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Okay, And that's kind of where Unsolved Mystery leaves us.
You ready for your update.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Please, give me a good update on this.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Nope. To date, this case remains unsolved. There is a
lot of public forums talking about this case wanting to
know there was from the understanding unsolved Mysteries loots that
there was biological evidence left behind. I don't know if

(41:48):
and or why that has not been tested against the
national database. I understand very little about that world, and
I understand it is a very expensive and a lot
of times unless it has a lot of heat on
it or light being brought to it, that you know,
they're not just always pulling cold cases.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
They're not always taking cold case.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Evidence and running and running it yeah database. So there
is a big push on a several of these forums
to try to see if they can identify it through
that or even potentially at least get a DNA sourced
and then even through maybe familiar DNA to be able
to at least put a name to this person. There

(42:32):
is another small speculation there was another man and of
course I forgot to write down his name, that was
convicted of very similar crimes in the area that he
was ended up I think being convicted of murder. And
there is a lot of theories and beliefs that it
may have been the same man, but again he never

(42:52):
confessed anything. They were never able to tie it directly
to him. And again that DNA hasn't been tested as
far as mine not. Anything I could find was that
that biological evidence has never been used. So there you go.
That is the story of Debbie.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
It was a terrible story, yes, but at the same time,
this lady's rivers m h.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, absolutely wild. Yeah, all right, Ben, what do you have?

Speaker 2 (43:28):
I have a weird one.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
It is a very interesting story. It's yeah, we're gonna
go over to the islands. It's always hard when we
like I want to be like, give I know that
these islands are not international, but there is something to
be said about trying to source material from something that

(43:50):
doesn't happen like within the continental US. It makes it
very tricky. All right, keep talking of you want me
just to improv.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
We'll cut this out.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
We will cut this out. Or your wife will cut
this out. Yeah she will, She'll just take care of it. Huh.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
All right, all right, we have a we've got the story.
This one takes place in the Virgin Islands, So Saint
Crux in the Virgin Islands, and this is multiple deaths
that are very similar.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, I mean, they are exactly similar.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
So the Unsold Mysteries starts telling us that the night
November eighteenth, nineteen eighty eight, please respond to just a
minor car accident. That was what they think. Right when
they show up, there's Rada art Maharaji. She is injured

(45:04):
in the car. Clearly something's going on. They don't know
what's going on. There's no physical injuries, so you know,
obviously they get an ambulance. They start center to the hospital.
On the way, she dies, so this is a tragedy.
But then an hour later, sixteen miles away, her husband Kirshnadad,

(45:33):
has found lying on the side of the road dead. Yep,
very strange too. Strange things about it is Rada and Kirshnada.
Both their clothes are soaked in seawater. Yes so, and

(45:57):
supposedly they had twenty five thousand dollars in cash and
that is missing. So come to find out after they
do their autopsies in that both of them have died
from CINAI boys.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Terrible.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah, yeah, So we learned that Rada and Kirshinadad had
they were running a grocery store on the on the island,
and their daughters are interviewed. At least it's Rada's daughters
from a previous marriage. They're interviewed and they say, like, listen,
they were doing fine, things were good, whatever. But they

(46:38):
had taken out supposedly a couple months prior alone to
expand their grocery store, and they want.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
To turn it in and they want to add like
a bar or a little restaurant or something to it.
I can't. They didn't say, Okay, that's the other that's
the other car. I'm getting a mixed up.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Well, we'll get into that. So they'd taken out this
long and let me put this to the people, Okay.
The way on Soul Mysteries tells this story is very confusing.
They don't do a good job on this and they
just say things without any like backing. So because and

(47:20):
then and I'll tell you why. Because so they'd taken
out this loan, and then they were supposedly getting phone
calls on a regular basis from a mysterious man. And
then they went for some reason and borrowed twenty five
thousand dollars from family and friends.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
On top of the loan.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yes, Okay, I had to look at this multiple times
because again, it doesn't make it. Nothing about this. I'm
going to tell the story, but there's a lot about
this that doesn't make any sense. So they borrow this
twenty five thousand dollars and supposedly they're getting phone calls

(48:02):
from this man, and they're going to go meet this
man and give him the money, at least according to
the daughters. Now this is where this man comes into play.
They believe police believe that he has some types some
ties to voodoo or.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Voodoo you do. What's that movie? What's that song from
Idea Labyrinth.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Or oba Ova?

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Is that the name of the style of voodoo?

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Yeah, okay, I could be wrong, And let me make
this very clear. I know nothing about this stuff, so
I'm not even going to try to speak as someone
I know.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Very little about it. But I do know that there
is like several different kinds of voodoo.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yeah, even robbers Stack comes back to tell us lesson
voodoo is misunderstood. It's actually our religion and that but.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
That's spiritual practice in that part of the world. Yes,
and then there are other parts of the world where
it is considered more.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Like a turn of it.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
And so it's like this one movie I saw I
Doubt This, where there's the light and the dark side,
but the power is like people can move things with
their hands and their minds and stuff, and if you
stay on the light side, things are good. But if
you use your powers on the dark side, you end

(49:30):
up in a black suit controlling a giant starship in
the sky.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
I refuse to take anything yourself.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
So it's kind of like unto that.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
No, I don't think that you are telling You're trying
to talk about star.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Wars, star Wars and any other thing where it's like, hey,
this is good unless you decide to use it the
bad way and then it becomes bad. But yeah, I
know very little abou voodoo. The only things I know
about it are just things from the South here. It's
a big thing in the culture here in the South.

(50:06):
But again that's even different than the voodoo in this
part of the world.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Here's the thing. The police say they think it's tied
to this.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
It's a spiritual religious practice.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yet you're a reason of why they think it is. Yeah,
I'm just telling you what it's unsolved.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Mesterng Okay, I continue.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
How this is tied to some type of they calmed
the Obi Man voodoo. I don't know, Okay, Yeah, So anyways,
like I said, they borrowed the twenty five thousand. They'd
been getting calls from this guy. On the night of
November eighteenth, around seven point thirty, Rada had left the

(50:43):
house and drove in a direction and the daughter thought
that was really weird because she usually doesn't leave the
house after dark and go by herself. So thirty minutes later, Kirshinida,
the dad, he gets in his truck and drives the
opposite direction. An hour later, they're both pretty much found

(51:04):
dead with their clothes soaked in seawater. That is weird
that first police thought maybe they but then come to
find out they died from cyanoid poisoning, so they have
no idea. So then that leads us to our second story,
which is very familiar, very familiar to this. Two years earlier,

(51:28):
nineteen eighty six, another couple, Edsel Strident and Carmen Torres
died and almost.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Almost exactly the same fashion, you guys.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
One night on September thirteenth, they get in their truck
and they drive away, left their home and supposedly they
owned a.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Little restaurant or bar drill, yeah, by.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
The beach and the goals they had borrow. They'd taken
out a loan and all they say in on some
mysteries is they turned that loan into cash. That was
the word they used. I don't know. So supposedly they
had fifty four thousand dollars in cash.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
There's a lot of money. That is a lot of money,
especially for.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
That area and that time, that time, yeah, right, So
that night September thirteenth, they drive to then Carmen was
found dead near the beach, not actually too far from
where Rata.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Had been in the vehicle as well.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Right, No, she near the beach, okay, okay, And then
Edseel is found in his truck.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
That's your pie.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Both died from cyanide poisoning, and both of their clothes
are soaked with seawater. Their daughter or a family member
does say that supposedly before they left, Edsel had taken
like a little cylinder and put it in his pocket
of like, okay, you know, something to drink.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
I don't know, A cylinder, like a little pill capsule.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Thing, I don't know. They don't say exactly what it is.
There's a lot of I don't know I'm going to
say here because I'm literally just telling.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
You what, like I said, And if they can tell,
Ben is very a type if he does not speculate.
If I was telling the story, I would have told
it super differently, and not for bad or for good.
I just always enjoy your take on things, because yes,
I would have filled in with the assumptions. And you
are like, hey, we don't know what was in that,

(53:36):
we don't have any documentation, we don't know X, Y
or Z.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Well, and I have a problem. I do have a
problem with this because people say, oh, we believe it's
tied to this how how so like, give me give
me the things that led you to believe to that.
They say it's tied to Vooden? Why why do you

(54:00):
believe that? What evidence is there? Just because a man
is calling you? Guys? You guys took that a loan?
How's that time? And here's the thing. I do think
that the police probably know more than what they're telling
the public. I always do. But you also so.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
You would like to know where at least the lines
are being drawn.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Members that are saying that, yeah, okay, but why Yeah,
I am just that type of person. I do not
make a statement unless you.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Can tell me back it up.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Why yeah, or at least answer some of my questions.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
Why Okay?

Speaker 2 (54:30):
I fear and I'm a little frustrated because this story
was very frustrating because they say these things. There's there
are facts, but there's also a lot of other things,
and there's I'm I need details. I like details and timelines,
and there's not a lot of that. Yeah, in this story.

(54:51):
I do find it odd. They're both all four of
these people now have died from cyanoid and their waters,
they're clothes being soaked in seawater is weird.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Especially Yeah, if I was a detective, those things would
all be tied together. But how they get from that
to voodoo practice? We are missing that piece of the puzzle.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Massive hole in this and I want to know what
fill some of this hole. Yeah, okay, because even like
the first guy that died, he was on the side
of the road, right, he didn't have a shirt on,
which didn't he didn't leave that way according to Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
And I honestly don't know what the side effects of
cyanide poisoning and that both these people are separated, yeah,
or all four of these people.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Yeah, so that's these other two people that passed away
from cyanide poisoning. So that also then leads us to
two years before that, a thirty eight year old man
by Haig Gilby Haig Caesar, Hag Gilby Caesar, was found
dead in his car. He supposedly he's just his car

(55:57):
is pulled off the side of the road and police
arrived and he'd been dead for several hours. Find out
he died from CYINAI was Investigators start looking into it again.
They believe it's tied to voodoo. Supposedly he'd been talking
to him man. We get interviewed by his wife. She

(56:18):
clearly is ticked when she's talking.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
She's sticked fired up.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yep. Yeah, because Hag had been he had taken out
one hundred thousand dollars without her knowledge. Whoa Yeah, and
supposedly had given it to someone. Yep. They tell us

(56:48):
that supposedly he had been meeting with a guy who
told him that gold was buried on his property in jars,
but it was and protected by spirits, and that there
was this ritual in a potion that you drank and
a ritual you did to get rid of the spirits,

(57:11):
so that he could then dig up the gold on
his property.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
He'd be able to find the golden dig it up.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Yeah, yeah, but he couldn't do that until it came
up with the money, comes up with one hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
This reminds me of the psychic that said she could
get rid of the bad things in your life.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
The lady, the mom and her daughter.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Mom and her daughter.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, it's a scam, right, Yeah, So supposedly he came
up with the money. This guy gave him, the potion
turned out to be cinaid, and he's then found.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
But again that's the sum.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
No one tells us how they know his connection to
this guy. We actually have no idea.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Because the because it's the wife that tells us that story, right, No, no,
it's the police.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
She tells us supposedly that she didn't even know this
was going on. Yeah, she even says, I thought my
husband would have been smarter than to fall for something
like that.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
Oh that is so hard, and it cost him his life.
And now she's stuck with this information and this debt.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Okay, So anyways, so those are so five people in
the span.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Of a fall, little island. These are not highly populated places.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
No, I've died from SINAI. Okay, what happened? Why are
they so similar? Who is this man? We get a description,
Supposedly he's been seen in the States. He speaks with
a very French West Indian accent. That's that's really all
I get. Yeah, right, So if you know anything.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Please call.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
That's where mysteries.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
All right, I can tell by your uh yeah, there's
no body language. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
And a lot of the reasons why this an update
is because this happened in the version of is You're
not going to get a lot of information coming out
of there. There's I read a couple of articles on this,
but pretty much every article written on it is from
the Unsolved Mysteries episode. There has been nothing crazy. I

(59:24):
actually I looked into to see.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
If there had been there any more deaths.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Cyanide poisonings coming out of that area. Nothing that I
could find, Okay, any more that came out of there,
at least in that time. I could have missed something,
but I couldn't find anything.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
So is the prevailing theory from this, at least from
the angle of unsolved mysteries is that somehow a man
pretending to have a connection with voodooism was somehow scamming
people to give him money and then type a potion

(01:00:04):
for some type of potion and ritual, and maybe that
varied on what it was between each person's circumstances, and
then instead of performing this ritual and this potion and
getting the money afterwards, he would steal the money from
them by ending their lives and not being held accountable
to why whatever they were looking for it didn't come

(01:00:27):
to fruition.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
That was one of the problems I had with this
story in the way on So mysteries told it. Okay,
you get the story of the first four people died
from cyanide poisoning and money missing, and if you just
took those stories, it would appear that they were robbed
and poisoned. Then you get the first guy technically there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
But they had all taken out a loan.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Those two had taken out a loan in their business.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
The other guy, but I mean they had all taken
out some.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Sort of Well, what I'm saying is if you were
just told those stories, you would have it would appear
that they'd taken out alone and they died from sign
and poisoning and robbed. It's only the first guy that
they tell you this story of buried treasure, a man
asking for money and spirits protecting it and where he

(01:01:20):
can then overcome that. What I'm saying is the first
guy is the only guy you hear about this scam
going on. Okay, they never talked to you about how
these other four people might have gotten involved in this scam. Okay,
in some type of religious scam or voodoo scam or
obi scam whatever that is. All they say is they

(01:01:44):
had money they took out alone. The first couple or
the last couple that passed, was getting mysterious calls that
I'm not quite sure.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Yeah, I don't know what that means. Were they aggressive
or were they communicating with somebody?

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Agree with them? Probably the same guy's respont possible for
all of this, So I can and see where they're saying, Hey,
it might be linked. Yeah, he might be have run
the scam. They just don't tell us how they got to.
I don't know. At the end of the day, it's terrible.
So who's going around He killed five people with CYINAI
and robbed him up.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
A lot of it's a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
So yeah, but unfortunately there's no update on if he
was ever got.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Or if Like most scam artists, once they kind of
start to realize the heats on, they go somewhere else
and they and it started a scam.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
And it's very different than those two ladies because those ladies, yes,
they scam people out of money. They didn't kill him
after no, they did not. I mean, this guy's scamming
and then to really kind of clear the way, he
kills them in a pretty horrific way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
So evil dude. But unfortunately we know nothing. We know nothing,
and it appears at least there was no news.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Okay, well, I'm going to tell you a story about
a woman that I will call Dorothea. Dorothea Allen on
a gray January day in nineteen ninety in the quiet
English village. I'm going to tell you, honestly, after living
in Tucson, Arizona for so long, the thought of living

(01:03:25):
in a tiny little village in England where it's gray
and rainy and foggy and miserable looking to most people,
that sounds like a dream come true. I will take
that He's the only.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Saying because it's the end of summer, it's sears ready
for summer to be over because it has been hot.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Yeah, if it's the opposite where and it's in England
where it's just only sunny three months out of the year,
I'm ready for that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
So in like a month it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
If anyone would like to sponsor the unsolved couple to
move to a tiny little village in England and live
in your family home, I will be there immediately. But
this is sudden under braills. I'm pretty sure that's how
you pronounce it. An elderly woman named Dorothea Allen is
late to rest. She's eighty nine years old, and despite

(01:04:13):
being the wealthiest resident in the county and having been
rumored to dance with Fred Astaire and dine with Gary Cooper,
only five people show up to her funeral. Shecken goes
to show that money does not always mean that you

(01:04:35):
end up happy and fulfilled. Her story is going to
definitely throw some wrenches, or like prou I guess the
point that strange that life can sometimes be stranger than fiction.
There sometimes we read these stories on unsolved mysteries to
you and I think if I wrote this into a

(01:04:55):
book or a script or a movie, people would hate
it because they would think, oh my god, gosh, this
is so unbelievable that this won't happened in real life. Yeah,
and this could kind of I could see being one
of those that you're like.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Ugh.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
But Dorothea lived a wild life. In her prime, she
was considered to be a great beauty. For the record,
when I passed away, I do want someone to be
like on the prime of her life, Cia was considered
to be one of the great beauties of the world. Okay,
so that's what they already say. I just am like,

(01:05:29):
how beautiful do you have to be to get that
to be noted? Either that or how wealthy I guess
do you have to be for that to be noted? Uh?
In the end of your life. She was married to
a man named Robert Langwell Allen, and together they built
a fortune. To a lot of people, Dorothea was glamorous
and refined and hobnobby with movie stars and traveling the world. However,

(01:05:53):
to a lot of other people, she was cruel, erratic,
who missed, woman, who mistreated employees, hoarded her wealth. When
she dies, when she died. She left behind a four
million dollar estate and no will. So who did she

(01:06:14):
want this money left to? That's the mystery Here investigator
signed our case soon realized that Dorothea spent her final
years deliberately erasing her past inside her vast estate known
as the Sutton Manner. I should have looked up if
you could still visit this place today. They discovered that

(01:06:36):
her passport had all of the major pages of information
ripped out of them. They found photo albums where the
faces of people had been cut out, and even pictures
of herself and her late husband had been ripped to shreds.
So one of the investigators tells us that what did

(01:06:59):
I write down here? Dorothea seemed determined to obliterate any
trace of who she had been upstairs. Her dressing rooms
were filled with expensive clothes and shoes, and evidence of
a woman who once indulged in luxury, but her origins
completely hidden away. So who is Dorothea Allan? This is

(01:07:23):
kind of what we know. Dorothea and Robert made their
fortune in the corset business. Their company took plain surgical
corsets and added Frill's lace ribbons, turning them into fashionable
garments and sold them by the thousands. Dorothea was known
for perfectionism, counting stitches to the inch, and demanding absolute

(01:07:46):
precision from her workers. I'm sure she demanded a lot
and paid very little. She was also remembered as a
tyrant by the former staff. People described her as harsh
and dismissive, forcing employees to back out of her office
without turning their backs to her. She made them back

(01:08:06):
out of the office because she didn't feel that they
had the right to turn their back on her.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Here's my only thing on this story.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
No, we've all worked for people like this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
You're getting all the negative you get from is that
one lady. And I don't know where she comes from.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Wasn't the investigator, No, it was I think it was
a local historian.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Yeah, and she clearly did not like this lady. She
told you of every bad thing. And here's the thing,
I'm not saying it ain't true.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
I'll tell you what we're studying this time era right
now in history, and it didn't seem like a lot
of people who ran businesses were always the nicest to
their employees. Yeah, a lot of this sounds exactly like
what we saw from a lot of other very well off,
high society people. Okay, So this was another story is

(01:09:04):
that at the like Christmas office parties or whatever the gatherings,
she roped off spaces so that she and Robert would
be set apart like royalty, and only select employees were
allowed to come up and like wish them a merry Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Yeah, you had to have like met some type of quota,
have to be able to talk to them. It was
one to get invited, but then it was another level
to just be able to talk to them. And that
that story.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
I would have not lasted in a business like this.
I can't keep my mouth shut.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
These types of businesses could not run today today.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
I mean they still do you have? I've you there's
some major documentaries about some insane behavior, but it's Yeah,
if there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Was someone running a Christmas party where they roped off
and you were you had to be a certain employee
to even talk to them, that would be all over
so social media right away, those people would be outset.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
You remember for every young this is what his the
man and wife that ran that business, this is them.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Yeah, And I was one of the higher employees and
with out like getting my self potenttion into trouble. The
wife that was in charge of this and bought luxury
gifts for the employees and X Y or Z. We
were invited to like parties and events by invitation only,

(01:10:32):
and like your stand, employees would not allowed to approach
those two and talk to them.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Yeah, I mean that story.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
I I laughed, because I've worked with people like one hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Could I see someone doing oh yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
So yeah, it sounds like she wasn't the most pleasant
person to be employed by. So despite her cooldness, though,
Dorothea was known to be deeply devoted to Robert. When
he died in nineteen sixty five after a long illness,
she kind of breaks. She reportedly like lit his cigars

(01:11:07):
and left them in the hallway burning, just to be
able to feel like his presence was still in the house.
On his death, she grows reclusive and eventually cutting off
nearly all contact with the outside world.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
Makes me said, yeah, but maybe she'd made Maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
She should have read E Christmas Carrol.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Yeah. Maybe if she'd made good relationships outside, it would
have helped fuel that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
So an investigator digs into her past and fragments start
to appear.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
A small whoa whoa, whoa whoa time out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Okay, Oh that's right, Okay, there's a picture. She didn't
allow a lot of people to take her photos, but
they do show a picture where she was at, like
they said, like a public event or doing something where
photographers were invited to or she didn't have that say
to say no pictures taken. And we see a picture

(01:12:01):
of her and she is traveling in luxury upon what
ben the Queen Mary, The Queen Mary. That is a
callback to I think like episode. It's in our first
two or three episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
It's in the first few.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
It's our very first ghost.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Story, the Haunted, the.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Haunted ghost ship that's still talk to this day, California,
and you can stay there at the hotel that is
the Unsolved Mysteries episode with the little wet feet coming.
Do you do you think across the cool deck h.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
The banging in the boiler room. Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
Maybe her husband left England and is haunting that place now.
Maybe she's haunting that place now because she's mad that
her picture got taken there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
But I just thought it was awesome. I mentioned that
she traveled on the Queen the Queen Mary.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
It all comes back to unsolved mysteries.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
All right, Sorry, you're fine.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Though. They do find a smallpox vaccination certificate that listed
her birthday as Jane Nuary twenty first, nineteen oh one,
under the name Fergin Henderson. She even told a friend
of hers that that was her maiden name and that
she had been born in Scotland. But we learned very

(01:13:14):
quickly that nothing like that existed, no one with that name,
no one with that birth There's no records of that
one with even that last name. So it just kind
of becomes another red herring that for some reason she had.
Other theories start to circulate, some claim that she might
have been born in Berlin and raised in Berlin, or
that even she and Robert were secretly siblings rather than

(01:13:40):
husband and wife. I know, but I mean, here's the thing.
When you have nothing, ever, you have to wonder why
someone who started a business and was actually part of
society in a lot of ways went to such great
lengths to like erase who she was previous to her
adult life.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Yeah, you're trying to rationalize this little bit, they said,
like he passes, she get They tell us that she
gets in an accident and literally then stays in her
house for twenty years. Yeah, twenty years of sitting in
a house by yourself. No one's right in their mind.
So like, I just I don't know, Like I don't

(01:14:22):
think we can understand why she did what she did,
and that say, well, she probably did it because they
were brother and sister. I'm like, yeah, I don't know
if I'm buying the Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
I don't know. But they here's the thing. They don't
have any where to go. There's nothing that leads them
in any direction. So by the early nineteen nineties, the
trail just kind of goes cold. And that's kind of
where I slid mysteries, Lisa. If they don't figure this out,
there's a certain timeframe at which the wealth will be
basically returned to England, and that's a lot of money.

(01:14:54):
There's a lot of money. They'd like to find the
errors so that they can at least get the money
to the right people. Okay. Update In nineteen ninety five,
a breakthrough happens. A former wartime pilot saw Dorothea's photo
in a newspaper and recognized her. She wasn't Dorothea Allan,

(01:15:16):
She wasn't even Dorothea at all, But she was Dora
Brahmer born January twenty first, eighteen ninety five in Shedfield, England.
Her parents her dad was a steel worker and his
name was Amos, and it sounds like her mom was

(01:15:36):
just a housewife. Her name was Emily. Investigators confirmed the
identity with a hair sample from her home, and the
Bramer family history explained some of her secrecy. Dora had
fallen in love with Robert Allen in the nineteen twenties,
but he was married, married and unable to divorce his wife.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Interesting happened to his wife.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
Then Robert lived with Dorothea as though she was his wife,
but legally they were never married. Seems like he just
pieced out on his ex wife, so he just left
her m H. So to hide the scandal, she took
his surname and buried the truth of her background.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
So that makes more sense though, the reason she buried
her past because even at that stage in lat of people, yeah,
don't want their past well.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
And she was hobnobbing with the upper resalance of society.
And she came from like a factory worker too. She
was like in the poor circle, right, She was in
the bottom of society, and then not only that, but
she affared her way into well wealth.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
Yeah, and even death. She didn't want her you know, reputation.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Yeah out there. Well. One of the guys interviewed says,
she was very adamant about that she had all this money,
but everyone that she associated with was also wealthy, so
they didn't deserve any of her money. She was didn't
seem like a pleasant woman, but she lived with a
man who was married to somebody else, never had children,

(01:17:24):
and it just kind of seemed never seemed fulfilled in
anything she ever did. So when her true identity is
fully uncovered, investigators are actually able to locate more than
seventy relatives descendants of Dora's extended family. Each inherited a
portion of her fortune, roughly around forty thousand dollars. Dude,

(01:17:47):
why can't this ever happen to me? Some weird, obscure
family member dies and leaves me money. I'm still waiting
for I'm so waiting for it too. Okay, So there
you go.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Uns A Mystery Season three episode twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Yep, if you guys would like to, you are welcome
to what exit stage right, and I will end our
podcast traditionally, as we always do, by asking Ben a question.
So this one actually comes from one of our viewers. Viewers,

(01:18:24):
podcast friends, listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
You don't view the podcast you listen to.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Now we're hoping to get to the point where we
do view the podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
You're hoping, I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
Let's see. Let me pull it up real quick. Sorry, Okay,
there we go. That was my voice in my podcast
talking on my social media. Okay, so this is Ralph

(01:18:57):
and Patrish, which I'm guessing it'seses E. I don't think
Ralph is listening to us. Maybe I think you think
it was Ralph. Okay, so you know what. I like
that name, Ralph.

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
Yeah, I really do. Okay, good, we should rename ourselves.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
We are not going to do that big fight in
our household. Shower before bed or shower in the morning
or both.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
I'm very indifferent on this, You're indifferent. So I shower
every morning when I get up, and I the reason
of my reasoning is just because that is because it's.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
Three thirty in the morning and you get very early
and wake yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
Up up, and I'm I mean, I get in the
shower and I will sometimes like sit there and just let.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
The ways say, how many times have you said I
practically fell asleep in the shower this fighting?

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
I have fallen asleep in the shower. Yeah, But also
I I don't I don't mind a shower before bad.
I sometimes like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
That because we live where it's hot.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
Yeah, I work outside sometimes many times I come home
from work. I've worked outside.

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
It's been showers a lot. To you, guys, there's a
lot of showers. You don't like to feel sweaty or dirty.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
I have to shower every day, every single day. Yeah,
and if time permitted, I would shower multiple times a day. Yeah.
So yeah, I mean this is not a fighter. This
would not be a fight in our house. If someone
wants to shower multiple times a day, I am here
for it. Yeah, it does not matter to me. I

(01:20:45):
don't care for me personally, I would I will shower
two yeah minimum, I'm showering once a day. If time permits,
I will al would even shower that night. I don't
always get to the shower before bed. But if I
was able to shift, why not?

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
So what's yours?

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
I hate showering, you guys, I cannot explain to you
the mental toll I have to gear myself up mentally
to take a shower. It just seems like and I
don't know, I don't know where this comes from. I
don't know if this says something about me as a
human being, but it is one thing that feels mentally

(01:21:29):
and physically exhausting to tripe to perform one. I have
long hair, and I swear if I was a guy,
i'd shower way more often because Ben gets out of
the shower and like gets dressed and leaves the house.
If I wash my hair, it's an hour process to

(01:21:51):
get it to the point where then I can not
the same leave the house. No, it's and it's hard
to compare. And I just I hate taking showers. I
hate standing there I feel and I hate it. I
hate it. I don't know why. It has been something
that even I fought with as a teenager with my
parents about what I do like doing. Is I like

(01:22:11):
to take And this might be gross to some people.
I like a bath. I get there. I didn't know
that people were grossed out by baths until I was
later in life.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
I don't judge.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
So I like to take a bath at night before bed,
and then I only wash my hair one to two
times a week. If you ever seen me on social
media and I have my hair in a ponytail or
with a hat on or a headscarf or any way
shape or form, it is because I'm trying to drag

(01:22:43):
out between hair washing days. It's become a lot more
accepted now that it's actually really bad health for your
hair to wash it a ton of times. And so, yeah,
if I could I take a bath every night before
bed to just I like to take an EPs and
salt and coconut oil bath. I feel clean, I feel relaxed,

(01:23:06):
put on clean pajamas, and crawl into a bed with
clean sheets. I think I said before if I was like,
had all the money in the world and spent something
on ridiculous, I would have freshly laundered sheets put on
my bed every single day.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
No, I can understand.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
Yeah, there is something about that. And yeah, so I
prefer cleansing my body. I guess at night before good
but thenya, then I washed my hair, but typically end
up washing my hair like in the sink or like
over the like handheld shower thing. I will do anything
I can to not have to just stand in the shower.

(01:23:44):
I can't explain it maybe has to do with my ADHD.
I hate it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
And it's my OCD. I have to do it multiple times.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
But yeah, when we've gone places, or if I'm a
hot in sweater we've been outside, I will put my
hair up. I have a hair net thing. I will
take a quick body shower if I feel sweaty and gross. Yes,
I don't just I can't stand just being that feeling
that way. But for the most part, I just prefer
to take a bath in the evenings and then wash

(01:24:18):
my hair one to two times a week and avoid
taking a shower as much as possible. Nothing wrong with that,
all right, guys, thanks so much for spitting the question.
It was so nice that I did not have to
think of one. And yeah, let me know if this
is Ralph or if this is the trees hope I'm

(01:24:40):
saying that night b E T A t R I
CE but trees. Yeah, yeah, send me a voice, men
will let me know. Okay, guys, thanks again for listening.
Make sure to follow, subscribe, support all of the things,
and join us next week when Ben and I recap
another sort of salt. Bye ye yah

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