July 21, 2025 • 35 mins
As one of the pioneering female city managers in America, Kathy Hodgson brings a unique perspective to urban planning—one that places accessibility at the heart of community building rather than treating it as an afterthought.
This conversation explores Lakewood's remarkable legacy of inclusive programming dating back decades and demonstrates what's possible when cities prioritize participation for everyone.
We explore the practical realities of creating accessible environments—from the financial challenges of retrofitting aging infrastructure to the innovations possible when planning new construction from scratch. Hodgson shares how Lakewood balances competing priorities while maintaining a commitment to universal design principles that benefit everyone from parents with strollers to seniors with mobility challenges.
Beyond physical infrastructure, this episode reveals the importance of inclusive recreational opportunities and community engagement. Lakewood's wheelchair basketball leagues, adaptive summer camps, and innovative online participation platforms demonstrate how cities can remove both physical and social barriers to participation.
Whether you're a city planner, disability advocate, or community member, this conversation will transform your perspective on what makes a truly inclusive city and inspire you to look at your own community through new eyes.
For more information, transcriptions and behind-the-scene photos, visit https://craighospital.org/unstoppable
Craig Hospital is a world-renowned rehabilitation hospital that exclusively specializes in neurorehabilitation and research for individuals with spinal cord injury (SCI) and brain injury (BI). Located in Englewood, Colorado, Craig Hospital is a 350,000-square-foot, 93-bed, private, not-for-profit center of excellence providing a comprehensive system of inpatient and outpatient neurorehabilitation. https://craighospital.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (00:06):
Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig, where
we pull back the curtain on whatmakes healthy workplace
cultures click and what happenswhen people are empowered to
expand the boundaries of what ispossible.
We'll explore the perspectivesof employees and leaders who
have carte blanche to speaktheir truths, tell their stories
and unlock uncommon ways ofapproaching challenges.
I'm Dr Jandell Allen-Davis, ceoand President of Craig Hospital
(00:30):
, a world-renownedrehabilitation hospital that
exclusively specializes in theneurorehabilitation and research
of patients with spinal cordand brain injury.
Join me as we learn from peoplewho love what they do and what
happens when fear doesn't stifleinnovation.
I have been so looking forwardto this opportunity to speak
(00:54):
with my dear friend, the citymanager of Lakewood, colorado,
and fellow board member at theDenver Botanic Gardens and just
dear dear friend, kathy Hodgson.
She is the third city managerthat we've had an opportunity to
speak to through differentlenses, around placemaking and
(01:14):
city planning and city building,through the lens of persons who
have to navigate a world that'snot nearly as accessible as we
need it to be, and so I've beenlooking forward to this, kathy,
and so I want to welcome you toCraig Hospital, but also thank
you for making time to shareyour thoughts and how the city
of Lakewood, a largemetropolitan area, thinks about
(01:37):
city planning.
So welcome, welcome.
Thanks, jendell.
I'm so excited to be here.
It's so cool that we get to dothis.
It feels like a long timecoming, but I'm so excited to be
here.
It's so cool that we get to dothis.
It feels like a long timecoming, but let's start with a
softball.
Just tell us about you and Imean, you're one of the few, as
I recall, women city managers inthe country, or is that
changing?
Yeah, it's really changing.
Kathy Hodgson (01:56):
So I started as a city manager in 2009.
So I'm on my 16th year and backthen, 13% of the city managers
in the country were female and Iwas afraid.
When they opened therecruitment, I thought I don't
know if I can do this.
And my dad said my dad's aSyrian.
(02:17):
And he said Kathy, your mom andI decided we don't want you to
go for this job.
People are too cruel.
And so we decided you need towithdraw your candidacy and I
thought well, just to defy him.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (02:32):
I said I'm going to do it anyway.
Kathy Hodgson (02:34):
And I was lucky that I was selected.
So, yeah, there was only oneother female city manager in the
state, so I was number two andI've really enjoyed the journey,
bumpy as it has been.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (02:47):
Yeah, what's made it fun for you?
Kathy Hodgson (02:50):
Working with an amazing group of employees.
We have 900, almost 1,000full-time employees and that
many part-time Part-time thinkabout people like lifeguards and
people working, golf coursesand that.
So yeah, the staff is amazing.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (03:09):
So that's the funnest part.
What in the challenges areinteresting and fun and
stimulating dynamic.
Kathy Hodgson (03:16):
Yeah, I'd say one of the biggest challenges is
local government.
Today, and the incivility localgovernment today and the
incivility Back.
When I started the debates werereally spirited and always
respectful, but I would say inthe last maybe eight years it's
(03:36):
gotten much more hostile.
People take pride in callingeach other names.
There's kind of a nationaltheme here and it's tough.
It's tough to be called corrupton every Monday night at city
council meetings and to feelharassed More and more
frequently.
I'm having to have the policedepartment park at the top of my
(03:59):
street just because of thedeath threats.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (04:03):
So it's different.
Kathy Hodgson (04:05):
It hasn't been like this before, and how that's
manifested in our vocation ispeople just aren't applying for
jobs in city management,especially women.
Gosh.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (04:18):
Yeah, and at a time where it could be
argued that you're needed morenow than perhaps other times, as
we think about both thechallenges from a budgetary
perspective and making the tentwide enough for all of us to fit
in and make cities comfortableand wonderful places we want to
be.
So how do you think about senseof placemaking as a city
(04:40):
manager?
Kathy Hodgson (04:41):
To me, what's important is to have a city that
appeals to everyone, and wehave an enormous diversity of
people.
Our population is about 156,000.
We're the third largest city inthe metro area and the fifth in
the state.
So you add Fort Collins andColorado Springs.
(05:01):
The cool thing about Lakewoodis we're really gritty in some
areas.
We deal with the unhousedpopulation.
We have a pretty largepopulation.
At some parts I would say ournortheastern part of our town
there's a real strugglesocioeconomically and our job is
to make sure there'sopportunities for those folks,
(05:24):
for those kids that are inapartments, to make sure there's
green space so they can go andplay and socialize with each
other.
There's also, on the other sideof town, a more wealthier
community that also deservesservices from the city.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (05:38):
So that's what's really special
about our city is we've got alittle bit of everything and
it's cool about our city iswe've got a little bit of
everything and it's cool, andyet I could also see it being a
challenge around how do youbalance competing and
conflicting priorities?
Kathy Hodgson (05:50):
Right.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (05:51):
I could imagine that the challenges are
compounded when you're trying tothink about persons with
limited mobility, whether it'sour older population where
mobility is a problem or can bea problem as we age, if either
due to physical infirmity or alack of physical activity so
that people can navigate, itgets tough.
And then you add on top of thatwhat we hear at Craig Hospital,
(06:15):
given spinal cord and braininjuries impacts on upper
extremity and lower extremity,mobility, gait and walking that
can be unsteady.
I'd just love to sort of startsome conversation, or dig into
conversation, about how you allthink about accessibility and
navigating all sorts of terrainin the city.
Kathy Hodgson (06:36):
Yeah, so by way of context, the city is 44
square miles, so that's a prettylarge landmass.
About 25% of that is park oropen space which we manage and
the city owns and manages, soit's important to have that
opportunity for everyone,regardless of your ability.
(06:58):
So our parks need to beaccessible as well as just
sidewalks and streets.
I'm lucky in that I started mycareer I don't know if you know
this I started when I was justout of high school, going to
school at CSU, and every summerI was a lifeguard and I taught
little kids how to swim at thecity of Lakewood.
(07:18):
So that's how I started mycareer over 40 years ago, and
Lakewood's really been a pioneerin adaptive aquatics and
adaptive programs.
So I not knowing what I wasdoing, but I ran as a swimming
teacher.
I ran an adaptive aquaticsprogram which was really an
(07:38):
introduction for these folks toget into the water and to start
experiencing that just being inthe pool Nothing like what you
do here.
Of course, I didn't know what Iwas doing, but we had a lift.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (07:53):
Oh, you did.
Kathy Hodgson (07:54):
Yeah, we were one of the first ones, and so from
an early age in my career I wasexposed to how important that is
to provide services andprograms for everyone,
regardless, right, so stretchthat on.
In the 70s, lakewood began aprogram for people with
(08:16):
disabilities and we have a.
For example, we have a summercamp program called Camp Paha
program called Camp Paha, and wealso have a program for older
adults who deal with eitherbrain or physical or spinal
injuries, and I think it wasevery Saturday night we had a
dance for socialization.
(08:37):
Isn't that cool?
I just loved that, and sothat's something that's been a
part of kind of our DNA, if youwill for years, gosh, would you
think that was by accident?
People smarter than me with bigvision, knew that that was
important.
So Liquid's kind of been thathub and I'm really proud of that
(08:59):
.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (08:59):
I had no idea, yeah.
Kathy Hodgson (09:01):
We also partner with our schools Jeffco schools
and we have Fletcher MillerSchool, which was built, I wanna
say, in the 50s good grief,it's so old and I was actually
sent there because I have aspeech defect when.
I was in elementary schoolevery Wednesday and I was pulled
out of class to go throughspeech therapy and that school
(09:24):
has outlived its proper use.
So Jeffco Schools has decidedto reinvest and they're building
a brand new school for thesepeople in our community and in
the region who deal with real,significant disabilities.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (09:41):
Either physical or cognitive, or both.
I don't know much about I thinkit's both.
Kathy Hodgson (09:45):
Yeah, I think it's both.
And yeah, they draw people fromall over the state and we are
so proud to host them in thecity of Lakewood.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (09:54):
Oh my gosh, I had no idea.
So you know it's interesting.
You say that you accidentallythrough a summer job teaching
swimming and adaptive swimming,so you just naturally came into
it.
It's this beautiful sort ofalchemy of accident or flukes,
yeah, and then intentionality.
That you know.
You know it's interesting.
We do know and we talked aboutthis just as we started that
(10:17):
Craig Hospital has its roots inLakewood up at the tuberculosis
tent colony for men that wasstarted in 1907.
I wonder what role that mightplay in how you all you know, I
do too.
Kathy Hodgson (10:31):
That was what was then JCRS.
Do you remember that?
No, Right by Cosmonita.
I imagine those were the mindsof that day that realized we
need to be a city.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (10:43):
I keep thinking of your words a garden
for everyone, for all people.
Kathy Hodgson (10:47):
Yeah, and I think someone had that idea for the
city as well.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (10:51):
Yeah, yeah, and I think someone had
that idea for the city as well.
Yeah, so you know, when I thinkabout navigating cities, talk a
bit about your sidewalks andy'all's wayfinding and how you
thought about it in waymakingaround multimodal, even
transportation.
Kathy Hodgson (11:06):
Sure, and that's so important.
Now we have a city council, amayor and city council 11 of
them and they care a lot aboutmultimodal, so we invest a lot
annually for sidewalks.
About a couple of years ago, wehired an ADA coordinator.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (11:25):
Oh, wow Good.
Kathy Hodgson (11:26):
To work just specifically on accommodations.
He also has done a completeassessment that was just
complete of all of our buildings.
We have over 100 that the citymanages and so this individual
did a full assessment.
The price tag to that is steep.
So we're looking first atprioritizing for the most used
(11:50):
buildings If they're theheaviest used buildings first.
That will be our priority, justto stay in compliance.
It really matters.
And in Colorado and of coursein Lakewood, those snowstorms
can be a real hindrance topeople who are trying to get
around.
And when you think aboutmultimodal and we shovel or we
(12:13):
plow snow, we usually plow thatsnow into the bike lanes right
Because that's on the side.
So what does that do forspeaking of multimodal?
And if there isn't a bike lane,then that snow gets plowed to
the sidewalk right, and someonewho can only get around on a
wheelchair depends on that fortheir transportation.
(12:33):
It's virtually impossible.
We are trying to be reallythoughtful about the
consequences of our own actionsand bring the parks crew, who
have special equipment theirforte is sidewalks and paths
right.
So, for them to follow alongand then plow again so that
(12:56):
people can get around.
That's so thoughtful.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (13:00):
It's so critical, and do you all do that
, even for?
And maybe every municipality isdifferent, but I will not name
one, but tell you a quick storyMany, many years ago.
I was still at KaiserPermanente at the time and I was
headed up to the office and itwas one of those awful April
snowstorms where the snow is wetand heavy.
And I watched this wheelchairuser stuck in some of that snow
(13:24):
that had been pushed to the sidebut it was in a power chair, so
it was an automatic chair,battery powered, and this person
was stuck and the wheels werejust spinning and the snow was
coming down.
The traffic was awful and I tothis day remember this man
getting out of his car literallyand going and trying to push
this woman so that she could,but the sidewalks weren't plowed
(13:47):
and I went.
I came to understand that itwas actually the responsibility
of the business owner in frontof the place, and so is this a
collaborative effort betweenbusinesses and the city to keep
Absolutely and it takes a lot ofcommunication.
Kathy Hodgson (14:03):
When the sidewalks aren't plowed in front
of a business and a busycorridor, the city will hear
about it.
So we'll reach out to thatbusiness and let them know what
their obligations, what theirresponsibilities are as a
business owner.
It's a real push-pull and ithappens with every snow season.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (14:22):
We've got this thing called the
Americans with Disabilities Act,which we say is necessary but
hardly sufficient to actuallyfor us here to live out fully
the promise that we are promised, or certainly the intent that's
embedded in the hope andresilience that we see here,
which is you'll do everythingyou used to just differently.
And the barriers in cities arenot trivial when you think about
(14:44):
the only way, given the size ofsome power chairs, that you can
get into a restaurant isthrough the service door.
I know you had mentioned thatyou all are looking at all your
buildings.
How are you looking at themthrough the lens of this
accessible work that's needed?
I know you had mentioned you'reprioritizing, but what's
underneath all that in terms ofwhat's involved in that?
For you.
Kathy Hodgson (15:05):
So the biggest hurdle is the financial.
It is inexpensive.
Retrofitting is reallysomething.
The other issue is so many ofour buildings are so old, so
once you start retrofitting itleads to more and more still
(15:28):
necessary so that we can makesmart decisions financially and
really focus on the facilitiesthat really are valuable and do
serve the public in a big way.
So it's a challenge.
I mean, that number has a lotof zeros to it and I would add,
(15:50):
a couple of years ago I was inWashington DC and I just had had
bunion surgery Right, so I wasin a wheelchair.
Oh, my goodness, that was soeye opening being in those, the,
the I don't know if they werecobblestone streets, but just
trying to cross a street in theamount of time you were allotted
, right with cars everywhere andI was much lower than all of
(16:12):
the people who were walking.
I felt invisible.
Wow, yeah, wow.
It was really something for meand that was eye-opening for me
to really experience that.
And then getting up on a curb, Ithought and all I had was
bunion surgery on me, big deal.
And all I had was bunionsurgery on me, big deal.
And I had to get out and takethe chair and put it up on the
(16:37):
sidewalk.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (16:37):
Oh my goodness, yeah it was.
Kathy Hodgson (16:39):
But that's so good.
That's so good to get toexperience that in real life.
What did you?
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (16:45):
do with that story.
Coming back to your job, yourday job I talked to our public
works folks about it immediately.
Kathy Hodgson (16:53):
You know, and I just toured your terrain, park
or area.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (16:56):
Yeah, our terrain park yeah.
Kathy Hodgson (16:57):
And that really touched me and I need to bring
our public works folks to thatpark or to that area to show
them what people have to do in awheelchair or in other kind of
apparatus to get around.
When we don't, when we haven'tmade these improvements and we
(17:18):
don't make it easy, and thesidewalks are really steep and
there's not the appropriateramping, et cetera, and there's
a hose on the ground that peoplehave to have to manage or these
goofy speed bumpy things.
It's wow.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (17:35):
I think that would be so important for
them to see it up close andpersonal we would happily invite
them, or any to those of youout there listening any group of
city planners or city managersto craig to, and I'd say for two
things one is to see how we,how we train and how we orient
people to adapting to a worldthat's not accessible, but also
(17:58):
with the hope that it willinfluence how people see things
through different eyes.
Hopefully even perhaps we'llplan it where they have a chance
to see some of the therapistsworking with folks around, how
you actually I mean we teachfolks how to get downstairs in
your wheelchair.
If you have the ability, wow,so which you go?
That's really cool on the onehand, but is there ways to not
(18:20):
have to do that?
Probably not 100% and no one'sasking for that, but these
accommodations.
There's work to do.
Kathy Hodgson (18:26):
There is work.
That's really the bottom line.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (18:28):
There is work to do.
Yeah, the expense is nottrivial.
I mean, that was one of thethings I remember thinking about
what's the ideal accessiblehome, let alone ideal buildings
or ideal offices or idealrestaurants, and what do they
look like?
And, talking to builders, Idon't know why I never thought
of it, but I didn't.
Greenfields are a lot easier.
(18:49):
Oh, totally Starting from theground up is a lot easier.
Do you all have any of thoseprojects planned?
Or, as you're thinking aboutand maybe you can't say or you
aren't there yet some of theolder buildings that you say
maybe we don't use.
We decommission.
Kathy Hodgson (19:05):
Yeah, is that the word?
Decommission them yeah.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (19:07):
And start over at some point.
Kathy Hodgson (19:10):
So we've recently purchased some property in
Lakewood I think it's 18 acresto build a new shops, and that's
where we can be smart andthat's where we can integrate
some smart ADA kind ofaccommodations for the future,
and so it'll be expensive, butit'll be cheaper than having to
(19:31):
retrofit.
Yeah.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (19:32):
I think that's, I guess, is the way to
look at it.
Well, you know, what's reallycool about what you just said is
sometimes we think aboutbudgets through the lens of the
next year and don't think longterm about what's the indirect
cost, by not sort of doing theinvestments now in any of a
number of things, but this forsure too.
Kathy Hodgson (19:50):
And there are so many competing interests for a
really finite amount, a finitebudget and, frankly, the sexy
stuff gets funded first.
So it's really my job toadvocate for funding for the
infrastructure, kind of thingsthat aren't as interesting and
but are so necessary, but how doyou think about accessibility
(20:14):
for your employees?
One of my- closest friends wasI worked at the rec center with
him and he was in a wheelchairfrom high school on.
He taught me a lot about hislife.
Just critical that we provideaccommodation for everyone.
It just is.
We do some cool things, like atone of our rec centers we have
(20:37):
wheelchair basketball, which isreally popular and not special.
At that same center we have Iwas just looking for the name we
have a new floor.
Well, it launched in 2022.
Get this.
It's called feel the beat dancefloor.
Oh wow, and it's for.
It's a.
We did a partnership with anon-profit and it's a for
(20:57):
auditory yes, yeah for hearing.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (20:59):
Impaired , impaired, yeah and uh, yeah
and it's cool.
They feel the beat.
And then they, they got thebait and they dance.
Kathy Hodgson (21:06):
Yeah, if it's at that same center, yeah that's.
I really think that's special.
We also have, you know, thinkabout little kids who have some
kind of disability and thinkabout how important it is for
them to get out and play at theoutside.
I just that's just critical foreveryone to have to feel the
grass, and so we have a coupleof playgrounds, if not more,
(21:30):
that are specifically aroundaccommodating for all the
different abilities in ourcommunity.
And think about being a parentof a child who has a physical
disability and think aboutsummer for that family.
Where do those kids go and howdo they?
Where do those kids go and howdo they get to enjoy a wonderful
(21:52):
summer?
Well, we have a program that'scalled Camp Paha, and I don't
know what Paha means.
P-a-w-h-a.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (22:01):
H-A it's the goofiest word.
Oh, P-A-H-A Okay.
Kathy Hodgson (22:03):
Yeah, and we've been doing this for years.
It's bringing kids to goswimming and rec center and
taking them to the movies, andall for special abled folks so
that they can be with each otherand socialize and be and not
just sit at home and be insidewith disabilities, whether it's
(22:30):
folks who are neurodivergent andsensory overload, or have had
brain injuries where sensoryoverload is a thing, or you know
.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (22:37):
I'd love to go to that place, but it's
not easy to get around.
The default is not to movewhich or not to leave your home,
which then creates.
It, compounds problems withsocial isolation and, like you
experienced in DC, are citizensinvolved, or residents involved,
in thinking about placemakingat all, or how have you all
(22:58):
incorporated them beyond theyelling city council meetings?
Kathy Hodgson (23:02):
Yeah, that's a really important part in any
government local government,especially City government, is
the public process for any newproject.
It's easier when it's acity-owned project, so if it's
around a new park and whatshould the park look like?
Or a new city building, it'stougher when it's privately
(23:23):
owned Because the especiallywhen it doesn't they're able to
build by right meaning it'szoned appropriately and the
public has.
We require them to have publicmeetings, we require the
developer to have publicmeetings, but there really isn't
a way to compel them toparticipate with the community.
(23:46):
It's more of a an educationalkind of thing.
Here's what we're going to do.
Yeah, so good developers listenand others don't and just do
what they're going to do.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (24:00):
So for the city projects, are there
opportunities beyond thehearings for residents to be
actively engaged in a project,especially as they think about
accessibility and those sorts ofthings?
Yeah, 100%.
Kathy Hodgson (24:13):
There's lots of different ways.
In fact, it isn't just allabout attending city council
meetings anymore and yelling andexpressing your opinions.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (24:25):
I should say it isn't that anymore.
Kathy Hodgson (24:27):
Honestly, it got to a point where you look at the
chambers and the meetings inthe city council chambers and
you pretty much can name all thepeople sitting there.
Well, that's not reaching thewhole community.
So we've integrated thisprogram, maybe five or six years
ago, called Lakewood Speaks,and now, if you want to
(24:48):
participate, we post all theinformation in advance, 10 days
in advance of the hearing, forwhatever that project might be,
and you can submit your commentsin.
Virtually you can submit themso that if you're not available
on a Monday night at sevenbecause you have little kids or
you're working or you're doinghomework or giving baths or
(25:10):
whatever the case may be, orwhatever you're not able to get
there, you can still participate.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (25:17):
You can have a voice right.
Kathy Hodgson (25:19):
And we'll get up to 140 comments and we make note
of them and they actually,those comments, go on the record
just as somebody who'stestifying in person.
It has really attracted abroader range.
So we hear from the people whocan't get there physically or
(25:40):
for whatever reason.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (25:42):
One of the things that we're just
beginning, I'd say, incorporateand focus on at Craig Hospital,
and it's not an initiative orprogram.
It's really thinking morebroadly about our mission around
really supporting independence.
And it's the reality thatpeople we take folks from all
over the country and people areinjured however and whenever and
(26:04):
wherever they're injured, andservices back and smaller and
sometimes even in metropolitanareas aren't comprehensive
enough.
So I'd wonder about pivoting alittle bit about other services
that you have to think about interms of meeting the needs of a
disabled population, whetherit's access to community
recreational, social, financial,health care, those sorts of
(26:29):
things.
How do you all think about that?
Kathy Hodgson (26:31):
So we have I was looking at your gym earlier,
your fitness areas, and I canthink we have four recreation
centers and one has a lot ofadaptive equipment.
So, for again, our goal tooisn't nearly as amazing as
(26:51):
Craig's, but as a community, toreally try to have something for
everyone.
It's fabulous.
Yeah, it really is fabulous,and we have so many wonderful
amenities.
They need to be available toeveryone.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (27:06):
So how do you think about other social
services and access to those forpersons living with
disabilities at the city level?
Kathy Hodgson (27:13):
At the city level we work closely with the county
.
The county does provide humanservices and has a lot of
resources that we can sharetogether.
We can do so much as a city,but when we partner with
nonprofits and other governments, governmental agencies, we can
do exponentially more.
(27:34):
So that's how we think about it.
We just try to be as broadlythinking as we can.
There are a lot of marginalizedcommunities and some have been
marginalized just systemically.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (27:48):
And we need to be smart about that and
do what we can to change that IfI could wave a magic wand and
you didn't have to think aboutthe finances, the economics, and
could just do the next reallyhuge two or three things.
I don't know what it may be.
One or two things.
Next, really huge two or threethings.
(28:10):
I don't know what it may be.
One or two things when youdream big about what you'd wish
for the city of Lakewood.
What's on that list?
When there's no barriers?
Kathy Hodgson (28:16):
Oh wow.
I can't even imagine.
It's hard to imagine that Iwould like to be a place where
people are so attracted to thatthey come and they feel
fulfilled, living and playingand working in the city,
regardless of who you are andhow much you have in your wallet
(28:37):
and how you get around.
That's what I would love is forliterally everyone because,
everyone matters and to be aplace that everyone wants to be.
That would be amazing.
Whether it's by a big buildingthat people can come and
(28:57):
recreate and learn and socializeand everyone can be there, or
it's just some passive parksomewhere, again, that's
accessible and it's a place thatcreates urban relief, if you
will, in the middle of aconcrete jungle to come and you
can get around regardless of howyou need to do that and have a
(29:22):
place to be and to be quiet andto be thoughtful and, oh my gosh
, and even more, we've got somebeautiful view corridors and for
everyone to get to experiencethat, regardless again of who
you are, where you came from andhow many teeth you have and how
much money's in your walletright, that to me would be
(29:44):
amazing.
To get to live, for me to getto be a city manager in that
environment, or even after whenI'm done, just to know that
that's Lakewood, that would bejust precious to me.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (29:58):
Wow.
Yeah, kathy, thank you verymuch yeah, we got to do this.
I love you too.
As you well know, this is thethird interview with city
managers of placesgeographically dispersed, I'd
say demographically dispersed.
What drives the economies aredifferent in each one of these A
(30:20):
small town with big, big ideasabout what's to come, a town in
Muskogee.
Or the town of Muskogee,oklahoma, led by a city manager
who's moved on to other things,by the way, but still doing city
management, whose eyes andvistas were broadened beyond
(30:41):
already big eyes and big vistasonce his daughter was injured,
once his daughter was injured.
And then a large metropolitanarea here in Colorado, who's my
sense being in this state aslong as I have has always which
has always dreamt big, led by awoman who really, really dreams
big In terms of what we get todo and what we care about, whose
(31:05):
issues are large, large.
So it's not just aboutcommunities of persons living
with disabilities, but, throughthe lens of certainly that.
I find it really wonderful thatKathy's roots, in terms of how
she thinks about persons who'vebeen marginalized, started quite
(31:25):
by accident, through adaptiveswimming, and then she inherited
, as a good way to put it, acity that, from the 70s, was
thinking about making sure thatthey had some eyes on.
How do we create a place foreveryone, a place where everyone
feels welcome and we'renavigating both the literal,
(31:48):
physical, but also the social.
The opportunities forconnection through literal
spaces and others is somethingthat sounds like has been deeply
rooted in Lakewood's history.
I loved hearing Kathy dream andI think it's what makes her
such an inspiring individual andan amazingly strong and
(32:08):
accomplished leader is thatwords she used really spoke
deeply to the importance ofconnection Connection to places,
connection to ideas, connectionto each other and a real, real
understanding as a leader which,when this is all going back to
what Unstoppable at Craig'stheme is, is what makes great
(32:31):
places and it's all about greatcultures To think about culture
at such a meta level that is, atthe size of a city.
It's wonderful to know thatthere's a leader who thinks
about that through what I'd calla people first lens lens and an
all-people-first lens who'salso smart and has to balance
all kinds of things, includinghow do you get it done on
(32:53):
limited budgets at a time wherethe challenges economically that
many cities and certainly hersis no exception are facing, it's
encouraging to know that therewill be values and some real
heart-led and heart-informed andheart-infused leadership is
considered.
And then you know the reflectionthat these injuries as we well
(33:15):
know, spinal cord and braininjury can impact any one of us
either directly or indirectly,at the wildest and the craziest
and the most unpredictable times.
And then, each one of the timesthat that happens, there's an
opportunity for us to stop andreconsider how it is that we are
showing up in the world asleaders and as individuals, and
(33:37):
that opening of eyes creates theopportunity for us to think
even more broadly about how dowe create places where all of us
feel welcomed and all of us cansee each other and still be
seen by each other, which Ithink is one of the most
important things that we asleaders can do and bring to
cultures.
So, with that, I want to takethis moment to thank Sean, to
(34:01):
thank Kathy and to thank Mikefor providing these perspectives
as leaders of not small placeslike organizations or hospitals,
but big places, likecommunities that are full of
hospitals and organizations andother places, for sharing your
wisdom and sharing your time andyour talent both with us on
(34:22):
this podcast.
But I send, on behalf of thosewe care about, just the
strongest and most important ofgratitude to you for what you do
back in your own communitiesand how you might influence city
managers and city planners allover the country and the world.
So thank you again for joiningus for Unstoppable at Craig.
(34:43):
It's a privilege and an honorto get to have these
conversations with so many folks.
I hope that you will join usnext time and don't forget that
you can catch us on pretty muchany one of the platforms you use
to podcast.
So thanks very much.
Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig, where
we pull back the curtain on whatmakes healthy workplace
cultures click and what happenswhen people are empowered to
expand the boundaries of what ispossible.
We'll explore the perspectivesof employees and leaders who
have carte blanche to speaktheir truths, tell their stories
and unlock uncommon ways ofapproaching challenges.
I'm Dr Jandell Allen-Davis, ceoand President of Craig Hospital
(00:30):
, a world-renownedrehabilitation hospital that
exclusively specializes in theneurorehabilitation and research
of patients with spinal cordand brain injury.
Join me as we learn from peoplewho love what they do and what
happens when fear doesn't stifleinnovation.
I have been so looking forwardto this opportunity to speak
(00:54):
with my dear friend, the citymanager of Lakewood, colorado,
and fellow board member at theDenver Botanic Gardens and just
dear dear friend, kathy Hodgson.
She is the third city managerthat we've had an opportunity to
speak to through differentlenses, around placemaking and
(01:14):
city planning and city building,through the lens of persons who
have to navigate a world that'snot nearly as accessible as we
need it to be, and so I've beenlooking forward to this, kathy,
and so I want to welcome you toCraig Hospital, but also thank
you for making time to shareyour thoughts and how the city
of Lakewood, a largemetropolitan area, thinks about
(01:37):
city planning.
So welcome, welcome.
Thanks, jendell.
I'm so excited to be here.
It's so cool that we get to dothis.
It feels like a long timecoming, but I'm so excited to be
here.
It's so cool that we get to dothis.
It feels like a long timecoming, but let's start with a
softball.
Just tell us about you and Imean, you're one of the few, as
I recall, women city managers inthe country, or is that
changing?
Yeah, it's really changing.
Kathy Hodgson (01:56):
So I started as a city manager in 2009.
So I'm on my 16th year and backthen, 13% of the city managers
in the country were female and Iwas afraid.
When they opened therecruitment, I thought I don't
know if I can do this.
And my dad said my dad's aSyrian.
(02:17):
And he said Kathy, your mom andI decided we don't want you to
go for this job.
People are too cruel.
And so we decided you need towithdraw your candidacy and I
thought well, just to defy him.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (02:32):
I said I'm going to do it anyway.
Kathy Hodgson (02:34):
And I was lucky that I was selected.
So, yeah, there was only oneother female city manager in the
state, so I was number two andI've really enjoyed the journey,
bumpy as it has been.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (02:47):
Yeah, what's made it fun for you?
Kathy Hodgson (02:50):
Working with an amazing group of employees.
We have 900, almost 1,000full-time employees and that
many part-time Part-time thinkabout people like lifeguards and
people working, golf coursesand that.
So yeah, the staff is amazing.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (03:09):
So that's the funnest part.
What in the challenges areinteresting and fun and
stimulating dynamic.
Kathy Hodgson (03:16):
Yeah, I'd say one of the biggest challenges is
local government.
Today, and the incivility localgovernment today and the
incivility Back.
When I started the debates werereally spirited and always
respectful, but I would say inthe last maybe eight years it's
(03:36):
gotten much more hostile.
People take pride in callingeach other names.
There's kind of a nationaltheme here and it's tough.
It's tough to be called corrupton every Monday night at city
council meetings and to feelharassed More and more
frequently.
I'm having to have the policedepartment park at the top of my
(03:59):
street just because of thedeath threats.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (04:03):
So it's different.
Kathy Hodgson (04:05):
It hasn't been like this before, and how that's
manifested in our vocation ispeople just aren't applying for
jobs in city management,especially women.
Gosh.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (04:18):
Yeah, and at a time where it could be
argued that you're needed morenow than perhaps other times, as
we think about both thechallenges from a budgetary
perspective and making the tentwide enough for all of us to fit
in and make cities comfortableand wonderful places we want to
be.
So how do you think about senseof placemaking as a city
(04:40):
manager?
Kathy Hodgson (04:41):
To me, what's important is to have a city that
appeals to everyone, and wehave an enormous diversity of
people.
Our population is about 156,000.
We're the third largest city inthe metro area and the fifth in
the state.
So you add Fort Collins andColorado Springs.
(05:01):
The cool thing about Lakewoodis we're really gritty in some
areas.
We deal with the unhousedpopulation.
We have a pretty largepopulation.
At some parts I would say ournortheastern part of our town
there's a real strugglesocioeconomically and our job is
to make sure there'sopportunities for those folks,
(05:24):
for those kids that are inapartments, to make sure there's
green space so they can go andplay and socialize with each
other.
There's also, on the other sideof town, a more wealthier
community that also deservesservices from the city.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (05:38):
So that's what's really special
about our city is we've got alittle bit of everything and
it's cool about our city iswe've got a little bit of
everything and it's cool, andyet I could also see it being a
challenge around how do youbalance competing and
conflicting priorities?
Kathy Hodgson (05:50):
Right.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (05:51):
I could imagine that the challenges are
compounded when you're trying tothink about persons with
limited mobility, whether it'sour older population where
mobility is a problem or can bea problem as we age, if either
due to physical infirmity or alack of physical activity so
that people can navigate, itgets tough.
And then you add on top of thatwhat we hear at Craig Hospital,
(06:15):
given spinal cord and braininjuries impacts on upper
extremity and lower extremity,mobility, gait and walking that
can be unsteady.
I'd just love to sort of startsome conversation, or dig into
conversation, about how you allthink about accessibility and
navigating all sorts of terrainin the city.
Kathy Hodgson (06:36):
Yeah, so by way of context, the city is 44
square miles, so that's a prettylarge landmass.
About 25% of that is park oropen space which we manage and
the city owns and manages, soit's important to have that
opportunity for everyone,regardless of your ability.
(06:58):
So our parks need to beaccessible as well as just
sidewalks and streets.
I'm lucky in that I started mycareer I don't know if you know
this I started when I was justout of high school, going to
school at CSU, and every summerI was a lifeguard and I taught
little kids how to swim at thecity of Lakewood.
(07:18):
So that's how I started mycareer over 40 years ago, and
Lakewood's really been a pioneerin adaptive aquatics and
adaptive programs.
So I not knowing what I wasdoing, but I ran as a swimming
teacher.
I ran an adaptive aquaticsprogram which was really an
(07:38):
introduction for these folks toget into the water and to start
experiencing that just being inthe pool Nothing like what you
do here.
Of course, I didn't know what Iwas doing, but we had a lift.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (07:53):
Oh, you did.
Kathy Hodgson (07:54):
Yeah, we were one of the first ones, and so from
an early age in my career I wasexposed to how important that is
to provide services andprograms for everyone,
regardless, right, so stretchthat on.
In the 70s, lakewood began aprogram for people with
(08:16):
disabilities and we have a.
For example, we have a summercamp program called Camp Paha
program called Camp Paha, and wealso have a program for older
adults who deal with eitherbrain or physical or spinal
injuries, and I think it wasevery Saturday night we had a
dance for socialization.
(08:37):
Isn't that cool?
I just loved that, and sothat's something that's been a
part of kind of our DNA, if youwill for years, gosh, would you
think that was by accident?
People smarter than me with bigvision, knew that that was
important.
So Liquid's kind of been thathub and I'm really proud of that
(08:59):
.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (08:59):
I had no idea, yeah.
Kathy Hodgson (09:01):
We also partner with our schools Jeffco schools
and we have Fletcher MillerSchool, which was built, I wanna
say, in the 50s good grief,it's so old and I was actually
sent there because I have aspeech defect when.
I was in elementary schoolevery Wednesday and I was pulled
out of class to go throughspeech therapy and that school
(09:24):
has outlived its proper use.
So Jeffco Schools has decidedto reinvest and they're building
a brand new school for thesepeople in our community and in
the region who deal with real,significant disabilities.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (09:41):
Either physical or cognitive, or both.
I don't know much about I thinkit's both.
Kathy Hodgson (09:45):
Yeah, I think it's both.
And yeah, they draw people fromall over the state and we are
so proud to host them in thecity of Lakewood.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (09:54):
Oh my gosh, I had no idea.
So you know it's interesting.
You say that you accidentallythrough a summer job teaching
swimming and adaptive swimming,so you just naturally came into
it.
It's this beautiful sort ofalchemy of accident or flukes,
yeah, and then intentionality.
That you know.
You know it's interesting.
We do know and we talked aboutthis just as we started that
(10:17):
Craig Hospital has its roots inLakewood up at the tuberculosis
tent colony for men that wasstarted in 1907.
I wonder what role that mightplay in how you all you know, I
do too.
Kathy Hodgson (10:31):
That was what was then JCRS.
Do you remember that?
No, Right by Cosmonita.
I imagine those were the mindsof that day that realized we
need to be a city.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (10:43):
I keep thinking of your words a garden
for everyone, for all people.
Kathy Hodgson (10:47):
Yeah, and I think someone had that idea for the
city as well.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (10:51):
Yeah, yeah, and I think someone had
that idea for the city as well.
Yeah, so you know, when I thinkabout navigating cities, talk a
bit about your sidewalks andy'all's wayfinding and how you
thought about it in waymakingaround multimodal, even
transportation.
Kathy Hodgson (11:06):
Sure, and that's so important.
Now we have a city council, amayor and city council 11 of
them and they care a lot aboutmultimodal, so we invest a lot
annually for sidewalks.
About a couple of years ago, wehired an ADA coordinator.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (11:25):
Oh, wow Good.
Kathy Hodgson (11:26):
To work just specifically on accommodations.
He also has done a completeassessment that was just
complete of all of our buildings.
We have over 100 that the citymanages and so this individual
did a full assessment.
The price tag to that is steep.
So we're looking first atprioritizing for the most used
(11:50):
buildings If they're theheaviest used buildings first.
That will be our priority, justto stay in compliance.
It really matters.
And in Colorado and of coursein Lakewood, those snowstorms
can be a real hindrance topeople who are trying to get
around.
And when you think aboutmultimodal and we shovel or we
(12:13):
plow snow, we usually plow thatsnow into the bike lanes right
Because that's on the side.
So what does that do forspeaking of multimodal?
And if there isn't a bike lane,then that snow gets plowed to
the sidewalk right, and someonewho can only get around on a
wheelchair depends on that fortheir transportation.
(12:33):
It's virtually impossible.
We are trying to be reallythoughtful about the
consequences of our own actionsand bring the parks crew, who
have special equipment theirforte is sidewalks and paths
right.
So, for them to follow alongand then plow again so that
(12:56):
people can get around.
That's so thoughtful.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (13:00):
It's so critical, and do you all do that
, even for?
And maybe every municipality isdifferent, but I will not name
one, but tell you a quick storyMany, many years ago.
I was still at KaiserPermanente at the time and I was
headed up to the office and itwas one of those awful April
snowstorms where the snow is wetand heavy.
And I watched this wheelchairuser stuck in some of that snow
(13:24):
that had been pushed to the sidebut it was in a power chair, so
it was an automatic chair,battery powered, and this person
was stuck and the wheels werejust spinning and the snow was
coming down.
The traffic was awful and I tothis day remember this man
getting out of his car literallyand going and trying to push
this woman so that she could,but the sidewalks weren't plowed
(13:47):
and I went.
I came to understand that itwas actually the responsibility
of the business owner in frontof the place, and so is this a
collaborative effort betweenbusinesses and the city to keep
Absolutely and it takes a lot ofcommunication.
Kathy Hodgson (14:03):
When the sidewalks aren't plowed in front
of a business and a busycorridor, the city will hear
about it.
So we'll reach out to thatbusiness and let them know what
their obligations, what theirresponsibilities are as a
business owner.
It's a real push-pull and ithappens with every snow season.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (14:22):
We've got this thing called the
Americans with Disabilities Act,which we say is necessary but
hardly sufficient to actuallyfor us here to live out fully
the promise that we are promised, or certainly the intent that's
embedded in the hope andresilience that we see here,
which is you'll do everythingyou used to just differently.
And the barriers in cities arenot trivial when you think about
(14:44):
the only way, given the size ofsome power chairs, that you can
get into a restaurant isthrough the service door.
I know you had mentioned thatyou all are looking at all your
buildings.
How are you looking at themthrough the lens of this
accessible work that's needed?
I know you had mentioned you'reprioritizing, but what's
underneath all that in terms ofwhat's involved in that?
For you.
Kathy Hodgson (15:05):
So the biggest hurdle is the financial.
It is inexpensive.
Retrofitting is reallysomething.
The other issue is so many ofour buildings are so old, so
once you start retrofitting itleads to more and more still
(15:28):
necessary so that we can makesmart decisions financially and
really focus on the facilitiesthat really are valuable and do
serve the public in a big way.
So it's a challenge.
I mean, that number has a lotof zeros to it and I would add,
(15:50):
a couple of years ago I was inWashington DC and I just had had
bunion surgery Right, so I wasin a wheelchair.
Oh, my goodness, that was soeye opening being in those, the,
the I don't know if they werecobblestone streets, but just
trying to cross a street in theamount of time you were allotted
, right with cars everywhere andI was much lower than all of
(16:12):
the people who were walking.
I felt invisible.
Wow, yeah, wow.
It was really something for meand that was eye-opening for me
to really experience that.
And then getting up on a curb, Ithought and all I had was
bunion surgery on me, big deal.
And all I had was bunionsurgery on me, big deal.
And I had to get out and takethe chair and put it up on the
(16:37):
sidewalk.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (16:37):
Oh my goodness, yeah it was.
Kathy Hodgson (16:39):
But that's so good.
That's so good to get toexperience that in real life.
What did you?
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (16:45):
do with that story.
Coming back to your job, yourday job I talked to our public
works folks about it immediately.
Kathy Hodgson (16:53):
You know, and I just toured your terrain, park
or area.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (16:56):
Yeah, our terrain park yeah.
Kathy Hodgson (16:57):
And that really touched me and I need to bring
our public works folks to thatpark or to that area to show
them what people have to do in awheelchair or in other kind of
apparatus to get around.
When we don't, when we haven'tmade these improvements and we
(17:18):
don't make it easy, and thesidewalks are really steep and
there's not the appropriateramping, et cetera, and there's
a hose on the ground that peoplehave to have to manage or these
goofy speed bumpy things.
It's wow.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (17:35):
I think that would be so important for
them to see it up close andpersonal we would happily invite
them, or any to those of youout there listening any group of
city planners or city managersto craig to, and I'd say for two
things one is to see how we,how we train and how we orient
people to adapting to a worldthat's not accessible, but also
(17:58):
with the hope that it willinfluence how people see things
through different eyes.
Hopefully even perhaps we'llplan it where they have a chance
to see some of the therapistsworking with folks around, how
you actually I mean we teachfolks how to get downstairs in
your wheelchair.
If you have the ability, wow,so which you go?
That's really cool on the onehand, but is there ways to not
(18:20):
have to do that?
Probably not 100% and no one'sasking for that, but these
accommodations.
There's work to do.
Kathy Hodgson (18:26):
There is work.
That's really the bottom line.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (18:28):
There is work to do.
Yeah, the expense is nottrivial.
I mean, that was one of thethings I remember thinking about
what's the ideal accessiblehome, let alone ideal buildings
or ideal offices or idealrestaurants, and what do they
look like?
And, talking to builders, Idon't know why I never thought
of it, but I didn't.
Greenfields are a lot easier.
(18:49):
Oh, totally Starting from theground up is a lot easier.
Do you all have any of thoseprojects planned?
Or, as you're thinking aboutand maybe you can't say or you
aren't there yet some of theolder buildings that you say
maybe we don't use.
We decommission.
Kathy Hodgson (19:05):
Yeah, is that the word?
Decommission them yeah.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (19:07):
And start over at some point.
Kathy Hodgson (19:10):
So we've recently purchased some property in
Lakewood I think it's 18 acresto build a new shops, and that's
where we can be smart andthat's where we can integrate
some smart ADA kind ofaccommodations for the future,
and so it'll be expensive, butit'll be cheaper than having to
(19:31):
retrofit.
Yeah.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (19:32):
I think that's, I guess, is the way to
look at it.
Well, you know, what's reallycool about what you just said is
sometimes we think aboutbudgets through the lens of the
next year and don't think longterm about what's the indirect
cost, by not sort of doing theinvestments now in any of a
number of things, but this forsure too.
Kathy Hodgson (19:50):
And there are so many competing interests for a
really finite amount, a finitebudget and, frankly, the sexy
stuff gets funded first.
So it's really my job toadvocate for funding for the
infrastructure, kind of thingsthat aren't as interesting and
but are so necessary, but how doyou think about accessibility
(20:14):
for your employees?
One of my- closest friends wasI worked at the rec center with
him and he was in a wheelchairfrom high school on.
He taught me a lot about hislife.
Just critical that we provideaccommodation for everyone.
It just is.
We do some cool things, like atone of our rec centers we have
(20:37):
wheelchair basketball, which isreally popular and not special.
At that same center we have Iwas just looking for the name we
have a new floor.
Well, it launched in 2022.
Get this.
It's called feel the beat dancefloor.
Oh wow, and it's for.
It's a.
We did a partnership with anon-profit and it's a for
(20:57):
auditory yes, yeah for hearing.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (20:59):
Impaired , impaired, yeah and uh, yeah
and it's cool.
They feel the beat.
And then they, they got thebait and they dance.
Kathy Hodgson (21:06):
Yeah, if it's at that same center, yeah that's.
I really think that's special.
We also have, you know, thinkabout little kids who have some
kind of disability and thinkabout how important it is for
them to get out and play at theoutside.
I just that's just critical foreveryone to have to feel the
grass, and so we have a coupleof playgrounds, if not more,
(21:30):
that are specifically aroundaccommodating for all the
different abilities in ourcommunity.
And think about being a parentof a child who has a physical
disability and think aboutsummer for that family.
Where do those kids go and howdo they?
Where do those kids go and howdo they get to enjoy a wonderful
(21:52):
summer?
Well, we have a program that'scalled Camp Paha, and I don't
know what Paha means.
P-a-w-h-a.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (22:01):
H-A it's the goofiest word.
Oh, P-A-H-A Okay.
Kathy Hodgson (22:03):
Yeah, and we've been doing this for years.
It's bringing kids to goswimming and rec center and
taking them to the movies, andall for special abled folks so
that they can be with each otherand socialize and be and not
just sit at home and be insidewith disabilities, whether it's
(22:30):
folks who are neurodivergent andsensory overload, or have had
brain injuries where sensoryoverload is a thing, or you know
.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (22:37):
I'd love to go to that place, but it's
not easy to get around.
The default is not to movewhich or not to leave your home,
which then creates.
It, compounds problems withsocial isolation and, like you
experienced in DC, are citizensinvolved, or residents involved,
in thinking about placemakingat all, or how have you all
(22:58):
incorporated them beyond theyelling city council meetings?
Kathy Hodgson (23:02):
Yeah, that's a really important part in any
government local government,especially City government, is
the public process for any newproject.
It's easier when it's acity-owned project, so if it's
around a new park and whatshould the park look like?
Or a new city building, it'stougher when it's privately
(23:23):
owned Because the especiallywhen it doesn't they're able to
build by right meaning it'szoned appropriately and the
public has.
We require them to have publicmeetings, we require the
developer to have publicmeetings, but there really isn't
a way to compel them toparticipate with the community.
(23:46):
It's more of a an educationalkind of thing.
Here's what we're going to do.
Yeah, so good developers listenand others don't and just do
what they're going to do.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (24:00):
So for the city projects, are there
opportunities beyond thehearings for residents to be
actively engaged in a project,especially as they think about
accessibility and those sorts ofthings?
Yeah, 100%.
Kathy Hodgson (24:13):
There's lots of different ways.
In fact, it isn't just allabout attending city council
meetings anymore and yelling andexpressing your opinions.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (24:25):
I should say it isn't that anymore.
Kathy Hodgson (24:27):
Honestly, it got to a point where you look at the
chambers and the meetings inthe city council chambers and
you pretty much can name all thepeople sitting there.
Well, that's not reaching thewhole community.
So we've integrated thisprogram, maybe five or six years
ago, called Lakewood Speaks,and now, if you want to
(24:48):
participate, we post all theinformation in advance, 10 days
in advance of the hearing, forwhatever that project might be,
and you can submit your commentsin.
Virtually you can submit themso that if you're not available
on a Monday night at sevenbecause you have little kids or
you're working or you're doinghomework or giving baths or
(25:10):
whatever the case may be, orwhatever you're not able to get
there, you can still participate.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (25:17):
You can have a voice right.
Kathy Hodgson (25:19):
And we'll get up to 140 comments and we make note
of them and they actually,those comments, go on the record
just as somebody who'stestifying in person.
It has really attracted abroader range.
So we hear from the people whocan't get there physically or
(25:40):
for whatever reason.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (25:42):
One of the things that we're just
beginning, I'd say, incorporateand focus on at Craig Hospital,
and it's not an initiative orprogram.
It's really thinking morebroadly about our mission around
really supporting independence.
And it's the reality thatpeople we take folks from all
over the country and people areinjured however and whenever and
(26:04):
wherever they're injured, andservices back and smaller and
sometimes even in metropolitanareas aren't comprehensive
enough.
So I'd wonder about pivoting alittle bit about other services
that you have to think about interms of meeting the needs of a
disabled population, whetherit's access to community
recreational, social, financial,health care, those sorts of
(26:29):
things.
How do you all think about that?
Kathy Hodgson (26:31):
So we have I was looking at your gym earlier,
your fitness areas, and I canthink we have four recreation
centers and one has a lot ofadaptive equipment.
So, for again, our goal tooisn't nearly as amazing as
(26:51):
Craig's, but as a community, toreally try to have something for
everyone.
It's fabulous.
Yeah, it really is fabulous,and we have so many wonderful
amenities.
They need to be available toeveryone.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (27:06):
So how do you think about other social
services and access to those forpersons living with
disabilities at the city level?
Kathy Hodgson (27:13):
At the city level we work closely with the county
.
The county does provide humanservices and has a lot of
resources that we can sharetogether.
We can do so much as a city,but when we partner with
nonprofits and other governments, governmental agencies, we can
do exponentially more.
(27:34):
So that's how we think about it.
We just try to be as broadlythinking as we can.
There are a lot of marginalizedcommunities and some have been
marginalized just systemically.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (27:48):
And we need to be smart about that and
do what we can to change that IfI could wave a magic wand and
you didn't have to think aboutthe finances, the economics, and
could just do the next reallyhuge two or three things.
I don't know what it may be.
One or two things.
Next, really huge two or threethings.
(28:10):
I don't know what it may be.
One or two things when youdream big about what you'd wish
for the city of Lakewood.
What's on that list?
When there's no barriers?
Kathy Hodgson (28:16):
Oh wow.
I can't even imagine.
It's hard to imagine that Iwould like to be a place where
people are so attracted to thatthey come and they feel
fulfilled, living and playingand working in the city,
regardless of who you are andhow much you have in your wallet
(28:37):
and how you get around.
That's what I would love is forliterally everyone because,
everyone matters and to be aplace that everyone wants to be.
That would be amazing.
Whether it's by a big buildingthat people can come and
(28:57):
recreate and learn and socializeand everyone can be there, or
it's just some passive parksomewhere, again, that's
accessible and it's a place thatcreates urban relief, if you
will, in the middle of aconcrete jungle to come and you
can get around regardless of howyou need to do that and have a
(29:22):
place to be and to be quiet andto be thoughtful and, oh my gosh
, and even more, we've got somebeautiful view corridors and for
everyone to get to experiencethat, regardless again of who
you are, where you came from andhow many teeth you have and how
much money's in your walletright, that to me would be
(29:44):
amazing.
To get to live, for me to getto be a city manager in that
environment, or even after whenI'm done, just to know that
that's Lakewood, that would bejust precious to me.
Jandel Alenn-Davis, MD (29:58):
Wow.
Yeah, kathy, thank you verymuch yeah, we got to do this.
I love you too.
As you well know, this is thethird interview with city
managers of placesgeographically dispersed, I'd
say demographically dispersed.
What drives the economies aredifferent in each one of these A
(30:20):
small town with big, big ideasabout what's to come, a town in
Muskogee.
Or the town of Muskogee,oklahoma, led by a city manager
who's moved on to other things,by the way, but still doing city
management, whose eyes andvistas were broadened beyond
(30:41):
already big eyes and big vistasonce his daughter was injured,
once his daughter was injured.
And then a large metropolitanarea here in Colorado, who's my
sense being in this state aslong as I have has always which
has always dreamt big, led by awoman who really, really dreams
big In terms of what we get todo and what we care about, whose
(31:05):
issues are large, large.
So it's not just aboutcommunities of persons living
with disabilities, but, throughthe lens of certainly that.
I find it really wonderful thatKathy's roots, in terms of how
she thinks about persons who'vebeen marginalized, started quite
(31:25):
by accident, through adaptiveswimming, and then she inherited
, as a good way to put it, acity that, from the 70s, was
thinking about making sure thatthey had some eyes on.
How do we create a place foreveryone, a place where everyone
feels welcome and we'renavigating both the literal,
(31:48):
physical, but also the social.
The opportunities forconnection through literal
spaces and others is somethingthat sounds like has been deeply
rooted in Lakewood's history.
I loved hearing Kathy dream andI think it's what makes her
such an inspiring individual andan amazingly strong and
(32:08):
accomplished leader is thatwords she used really spoke
deeply to the importance ofconnection Connection to places,
connection to ideas, connectionto each other and a real, real
understanding as a leader which,when this is all going back to
what Unstoppable at Craig'stheme is, is what makes great
(32:31):
places and it's all about greatcultures To think about culture
at such a meta level that is, atthe size of a city.
It's wonderful to know thatthere's a leader who thinks
about that through what I'd calla people first lens lens and an
all-people-first lens who'salso smart and has to balance
all kinds of things, includinghow do you get it done on
(32:53):
limited budgets at a time wherethe challenges economically that
many cities and certainly hersis no exception are facing, it's
encouraging to know that therewill be values and some real
heart-led and heart-informed andheart-infused leadership is
considered.
And then you know the reflectionthat these injuries as we well
(33:15):
know, spinal cord and braininjury can impact any one of us
either directly or indirectly,at the wildest and the craziest
and the most unpredictable times.
And then, each one of the timesthat that happens, there's an
opportunity for us to stop andreconsider how it is that we are
showing up in the world asleaders and as individuals, and
(33:37):
that opening of eyes creates theopportunity for us to think
even more broadly about how dowe create places where all of us
feel welcomed and all of us cansee each other and still be
seen by each other, which Ithink is one of the most
important things that we asleaders can do and bring to
cultures.
So, with that, I want to takethis moment to thank Sean, to
(34:01):
thank Kathy and to thank Mikefor providing these perspectives
as leaders of not small placeslike organizations or hospitals,
but big places, likecommunities that are full of
hospitals and organizations andother places, for sharing your
wisdom and sharing your time andyour talent both with us on
(34:22):
this podcast.
But I send, on behalf of thosewe care about, just the
strongest and most important ofgratitude to you for what you do
back in your own communitiesand how you might influence city
managers and city planners allover the country and the world.
So thank you again for joiningus for Unstoppable at Craig.
(34:43):
It's a privilege and an honorto get to have these
conversations with so many folks.
I hope that you will join usnext time and don't forget that
you can catch us on pretty muchany one of the platforms you use
to podcast.
So thanks very much.
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