October 14, 2024 • 38 mins
Katie Kramer, the dynamic president and CEO of the Boettcher Foundation, shares her inspiring path, where leadership and philanthropy intertwine to forge transformative change. Explore the intricate dance of technology, philanthropy and leadership as we navigate the evolution of today's world. Katie’s narrative as a trailblazing female CEO unravels the threads of responsibility and pride that come with breaking barriers. Delve into the multifaceted nature of philanthropy, encapsulated in the concept of "time, talent, treasure and ties."
The essence of authentic leadership emerges as we embrace vulnerability and genuine human connection. Through stories of empathy and emotional intelligence, we highlight how listening and understanding the unspoken are crucial in mission-driven environments. Katie’s leadership philosophy is a testament to balancing legacy with innovation, nurturing future leaders with adaptability and care. This enlightening conversation promises to inspire personal growth and enhance service to communities, as we learn to embrace opportunities and challenges with grace and courage.
For more information, transcriptions and behind-the-scene photos, visit https://craighospital.org/unstoppable
Craig Hospital is a world-renowned rehabilitation hospital that exclusively specializes in neurorehabilitation and research for individuals with spinal cord injury (SCI) and brain injury (BI). Located in Englewood, Colorado, Craig Hospital is a 350,000-square-foot, 93-bed, private, not-for-profit center of excellence providing a comprehensive system of inpatient and outpatient neurorehabilitation. https://craighospital.org
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Episode Transcript
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Jandel Allen-Davis (00:03):
Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig, where we
pull back the curtain on whatmakes healthy workplace cultures
click and what happens whenpeople are empowered to expand
the boundaries of what ispossible.
We'll explore the perspectivesof employees and leaders who
have carte blanche to speaktheir truths, tell their stories
and unlock uncommon ways ofapproaching challenges.
I'm Dr Jandel Allen-Davis, CEOand President of Craig Hospital,
(00:27):
a world-renowned rehabilitationhospital that exclusively
specializes in theneurorehabilitation and research
of patients with spinal cordand brain injury.
Join me as we learn from peoplewho love what they do and what
happens when fear doesn't stifleinnovation.
Welcome to another episode ofUnstoppable at Craig, and today
(00:49):
I am joined by Katie Kramer, whois the president and CEO of the
Betcher Foundation.
And you know, as we think about,remember that the theme of, or
the.
If there's a thread that runsthrough every episode of
Unstoppable, it's this notion ofwhat makes for great cultures,
and there are things that aretangible, there are things that
(01:11):
are intangible, that are part ofthe leadership alchemy that
pulls together great cultures,and there's something really, as
those of us who have eitherbeen beneficiaries of
philanthropy or those who havebeen able to actually be the
benefactors of philanthropy,there's something incredible
(01:32):
that, that sort of generosityfrom millions of people
sometimes a family, sometimeseven in the smallest ways what
that fuels in terms of the powerof leadership to truly
transform and change lives.
And so it's just going to befun to spend some time with my
dear friend, katie Kramer, andwe go way back.
(01:54):
We go way back to 2006.
That's unbelievable how fasttime flies and what our journeys
have taken us to where they'vetaken us over that very, very
long time.
So I want to thank you, a forjust saying yeah, let's talk.
That's always fun.
But also the Betcher Foundationhas been an amazing, amazing
partner of Craig and it is partof the fuel that makes this
(02:16):
place so, so wonderful.
So, on behalf of people who arein beds right now here at Craig
, family members who aresupporting them, team members
who are doing the work that theydo to support those families,
those who have come before andactually even those who don't
know they're going to need usbut Will I just say thank you,
thank you, thank you and welcomeWell thank you, what a way to
(02:39):
start, jandel.
Katie Kramer (02:40):
You always get me right there in the heart and
just knowing what an incredibleplace that this is.
And for me, the relationshipwith Craig is deeply personal,
in addition to beingprofessional and the fact that
we've been friends for so longand you're here as following
(03:02):
many incredible leaders at Craigover the years.
But you in this role here andthis place for our community,
you know one of a kind and it'san honor to come alongside, and
the Betcher Foundation I knowhas supported with many grants
over the years and in themission, and so thank you what
you do for the world the worldnot just our, not just Colorado.
Jandel Allen-Davis (03:26):
Well, we both got to say thank you, and I
will say you are more than morethan welcome, and I think it's
interesting that you saidthere's the better sort of part
of which is such a huge part ofyour story, but then that it's
deeply and intensely personaltoo.
So why don't you just start bysharing some of your journey,
that journey from intern topresident and CEO?
And you're celebrating goodgrief.
(03:47):
How can it be your 27thanniversary as a foundation?
Katie Kramer (03:51):
But tell your story?
Well, sure, so I did.
I alluded to the fact that therelationship with Craig was
personal and that goes beyondour friendship, because the
mission is deeply personal to meand I don't know that a lot of
people know this about my story,but I was in a car accident
when I was 22 years old and hada traumatic brain injury, and
(04:14):
there was a period of time whenI didn't know if I'd ever be
able to work again, and so theimpact on my family and my
friends, it was profound, and sothe impact on my family and my
friends, it was profound.
And so just to share a littlebit more of the depth of that
story and then sort of how itfits in with the Betcher story
too, so I'll take you back toninth grade.
(04:39):
I walk into my new high schooland there was this wonderful
guidance counselor, mrsBornhauser, who called me into
her office and she said Kate, Ithink you might be Betcher
material.
Jandel Allen-Davis (04:49):
And I know, and I was like oh my goodness,
what is that?
Katie Kramer (04:51):
But I better find out.
And then had heard of thewonderful Betcher scholarship
and so made it my goalthroughout high school to try to
put myself into a position justto compete, because it's very
competitive, and feel veryblessed that I was lucky to be
40 of the students that werechosen that year when I
graduated from high school in1993.
(05:14):
And so I had the chance.
It was life changing.
Betcher's invested in me too.
I'm a beneficiary, but theyinvested in my potential and
paid for my undergraduateeducation.
I went to CU Boulder and so Ihad a wonderful experience there
.
And it ends up being a fullcircle story with Betcher,
(05:36):
because when I was justfinishing up senior year, there
was this fellowship positionthat was advertised at the
Betcher Foundation and I thoughthow wonderful.
I was newly married to mywonderful partner, Joe Kramer,
and we thought how perfect forme to take a year it was a
year-long fellowship and giveback to this organization that
(05:56):
had invested in me.
And actually my sister won aBadger scholarship too, so it
literally changed generations ofour family to have the gift
gift my parents didn't have toworry about our education and so
the chance to work there undera wonderful leader, Tim Schultz,
and have this fellowship.
I got the job and was realexcited to start, and it was.
(06:18):
I was commuting from Boulder.
I was just finishing up a lastsemester at CU.
I was just finishing up a lastsemester at CU, and on my way
down to work in downtown Denver,where we're located on Highway
36, classic story Traffic cameto a stop and I was able to stop
, but the person behind mewasn't, and so I think the thing
that is so just paradoxicalabout it is, you know, it seemed
(06:41):
like it was like $2,000 worthof damage to my car.
(07:06):
You know, it seemed like it waslike $2,000 worth of damage to
my car and you know the thing,it was almost seven years before
I fully recovered in all theways.
So so much too, but I hadseizures as a result of that
experience and I did all sortsof therapy because I had a neck
injury as well as the braininjury.
But for somebody who had anidentity that I felt like if I
worked hard enough, I couldalways get the A or I couldn't
do that anymore.
Get the A or I couldn't do thatanymore.
(07:28):
And so I remember when I wasplaying Yahtzee with Joe at the
time and I couldn't add the dice, I think we didn't know right
away that I had the extent ofthe injury, but or couldn't
remember, like the, a phonenumber, all the digits, or would
feel like I'd be reading thesame thing.
I was still in school, so tryingto read the same passages over
and over and over and notfeeling like I could get the
(07:49):
wiring in my brain to understandwhat I was reading.
And then, you know, had thechance to do cognitive therapy
and stuff, and so I'm just sograteful that there were
therapists and neurologists andthat came alongside me in that
recovery.
But yeah, it was.
It was a really scary time andand my neurologist did tell Joe
(08:11):
privately I did not know this atthe time that he wasn't sure
that I would be able to workfull time and a lot of that
stemmed from just the, just theseizures I would continue to
have.
So you know, fighting backthrough that, I am grateful for
all the support and I wasdetermined.
Jandel Allen-Davis (08:30):
I really was .
Katie Kramer (08:31):
So, at any rate, that's a little bit about that
piece, and then the rest of thejourney at Betcher Jandel is.
I'm grateful to them forhelping me through that really
difficult time in my life wherethey cut back hours for me and
allowed me some accommodationsto be able to continue to work.
I'm so grateful for that.
(08:52):
And it was about within a yearthat we had a position open.
It was a longtime scholarshipsecretary at the time and I, at
22, had the audaciousness to puttogether a proposal of what if
we hired a director of thescholarship program.
And then I applied.
Oh, I love it I wanted the joband Tim believed in me and let
(09:17):
me have the chance to run ourscholarship program for five
years and then invited me to bethe vice president when I was 26
years old and I certainly grewinto that 26 years old.
And I certainly grew into thatrole over time and I've been the
CEO for the last seven and ahalf, so I cannot believe that
it's been like a blink, but I'vehad a chance to do just about
every job at the FletcherFoundation in the period of
those 27 years.
Jandel Allen-Davis (09:38):
Yeah, there was so much in that.
Katie Kramer (09:40):
I'm sorry, yes, no , no, no, no, no, and I can I
could wait.
Jandel Allen-Davis (09:43):
So, first of all, thank you for sharing that
way that you know the your yourexperience with this brain
injury traumatic brain injuryand you're mentioning that it
changed you that that you knowthat's nobody wants these, but
there are ways we hear thiswalking through the halls.
I know this about patientswhether spinal cord or brain
(10:04):
injury who there's a resiliencethat kicks in, especially if
you're supported by the rightfolk.
And by the right folk it's notjust the great therapist.
That is what happens withinthis health care domain, in an
organization that says she isone of ours and we're going to
(10:26):
invest in her and we're going tomake, we're going to provide
the kinds of accommodations thatenable her to get back to or
move ahead to whatever's next.
And you know, that's a mark ofgreat cultures that I felt it
important to say publicly onthis podcast, because we are
wasting talent when we don't.
(10:46):
And look at you today.
And it also goes to show howmiraculous the brain can be.
You know that recovery can takesome time, but it does happen.
Brains are that squishy littlebit of gelatin between our ears,
does amazing, amazing things,and it is, at the same time,
still a mystery.
But the other thing I heardback to Tim who doesn't love Tim
(11:10):
Schultz?
Let's just start there in termsof the kind of culture he had
built that enabled you to stayfor 27 years and he said yes,
when you brought things, talkabout the culture at the
foundation.
Katie Kramer (11:24):
I think that's a great story of evolution, Jandel
, and what Tim brought to it andI feel proud to continue is, I
think, that philanthropy.
And just quick background aboutVetra Foundation private family
foundation started in 1937 by awonderful, generous family of
serial entrepreneurs in thestate.
They were immigrants.
(11:44):
They came here like so manywanting to work hard and build
something and build a family anda life and a community.
And they did well.
They were blessed, they didwell and they decided they
wanted to give back and investin the state of Colorado.
So we do only grantmaking inthe state of Colorado back and
(12:05):
invest in the state of Colorado.
So we do only grant making inthe state of Colorado.
And throughout that time we'vegiven away like $420 million in
every part of the state.
But the story of that it's now87 years old.
The Betcher Foundation.
And when Tim started the periodof time, my first jobs, jandel,
when I started as the internwith the fellowship position, I
(12:28):
got the first domain name.
I built thank you, cu Boulder,leeds College of Business for my
business education, but builtthe website, wow, built a
selection database to, you know,try to automate some of our all
the handwritten selectionprocess that was formerly of the
better scholarship program tothe first marketing brochure.
So we were coming in a timewhere technology was everything
(12:52):
was done.
When I started, you know,people were still there, were
secretaries and executives andwe were on typewriters and not
networked computers.
That was another job that I hadto do.
So there's a reputationsometimes with philanthropy that
it's like the ivory tower andvery inaccessible and stuffy and
I would say that there may havebeen some of that.
I was certainly intimidatedcoming from my better
(13:15):
scholarship interview when I was18 years old.
Jandel Allen-Davis (13:20):
You would have been anyway, right?
Yes, of course.
Katie Kramer (13:23):
But I think what the work to make and continues
to be our work to make, what wedo, we are servants and what we
do we cannot do without peoplelike Craig and all the
organizations that we invest inthroughout the state.
So to make sure that our workis accessible, that we are
(13:52):
partners in helping people getthe resources that they need.
And so he tore down that ivorytower and those walls and I love
that.
He used to say, jandel, our job, we can't fund everybody and
not everything fits ourpriorities.
Like it just doesn't you dothese things and other
foundations do other things.
But he said it's a goal alwaysthat someone, if they're going
to meet with us, that we givethem three ideas they didn't
(14:12):
have.
And so this idea of trying to bea connector there's that
resources does doesn't mean likemoney always, but it's your.
It's your the connections, theability to connect dots, like we
work throughout the state.
So I know what happened inMancos last year and Holyoke
last year and Cortez, and sowhen people come to us coming
(14:36):
with a project that's similar,we connect dots for them and
sometimes we give grants but wecontinue to, I think, provide
our value and part of ourphilanthropy is our people that
work there.
We're part of this gift thatthe Boettcher family, I think,
invested in for the people ofColorado, that we help people
find access to resources.
Jandel Allen-Davis (15:13):
Gosh you know it's interesting.
Katie Kramer (15:14):
I think that we talk about.
You know the phrase that wehave the opportunity to give.
They've been chosen because oftheir leadership and their
service, their heart for service.
It's wonderful, and so we talkabout that philanthropy.
I think the way we define it istime, talent, treasure and ties
.
Ties Because one of the thingsand that's that connection piece
(15:36):
, like if you have access to acommunity or connection, the
power of a network, you knowthat.
Well this is the LeadershipDenver Network we've been part
of through the LeadershipFoundation all these years the
power of that network that wecan bring to bear to the people
that we're supporting andserving.
It's powerful beyond just themoney that you show up and share
(15:59):
your talents or you give yourtime.
You know, invest, even withyour dollars, gosh, you know.
So it's like pay it forward.
Jandel Allen-Davis (16:06):
It's a force multiplier.
You know all the words we use,and I love the ties part,
because I think one of the mostimportant thing we do as leaders
is service connectors of ideas,of systems, of people, of
places.
And how cool that you get to dothe work statewide and can
connect communities to eachother, great ideas, work that's
going on other places.
(16:26):
You know I love thegenerational issues of being in
roles, like whatever the rolesare.
When I was in my mid-40s, I wasat KP, kaiser Permanente and
had little ones, but I was inclinical practice, so I wasn't
home many nights.
Well, every third to fourthnight I was out somewhere
delivering babies and takingcare of women.
(16:47):
And then to find ourselves inthese CEO roles as women.
There's lots of different, itseems to me, lenses.
We could look at that throughwhether it's the lens of ages
and stages, and I'd wonder,though, through the lens of
being a female CEO, and notnecessarily even mid-40s with
kids.
But in what other ways did youneed to, or have you had to,
(17:08):
navigate challenges but alsoopportunities Like what do we
uniquely bring when we tap intoand I'm going to say it this way
that feminine sort of spirit, Isuppose, because men can tap
into that too.
I think we can do our masculineand our feminine.
That's some of what we have tobe able to do?
Katie Kramer (17:24):
That's a great question, and I think one of the
things that I feel most proudof in my life is I've had a
chance to be, an opportunity tobe a trailblazer in a couple
ways the first female XYZ likewhether it was the first I grew
up in the Episcopal church.
And I was the first firstfemale xyz like whether it was
the first I grew up in theepiscopal church and the I was
the first female acolyte in ourchurch I wanted to be an altar
(17:46):
boy.
Jandel Allen-Davis (17:46):
Yeah, they didn't have them back in the day
, yeah, I was proud of that cooland even um.
Katie Kramer (17:52):
I was the first executive at betcher that was a
female, like we had wonderful umagain.
They were called secretaries atthe time, but I was the first
person that didn't have thattitle in that role.
And then, even coming into thisrole, I'm the first female CEO,
the youngest and the firstVector Scholar, and so I take
(18:14):
great pride in that being thefirst, and also it feels like a
lot of responsibility.
Jandel Allen-Davis (18:21):
It cuts a few ways, doesn't it?
Exactly, those firsts aresomething I don't think that hit
me until sometimes, since I'vebeen over here.
First woman.
Katie Kramer (18:30):
I agree.
Ceo.
Jandel Allen-Davis (18:31):
First African-American CEO of either
gender, and then a number ofthose crazy firsts Talk about I
was going to ask.
This is going to be my nextquestion how do you define or
how do you characterize theresponsibility that you carry
with it, that it comes with With?
Katie Kramer (18:47):
being the first yeah.
Jandel Allen-Davis (18:48):
As you said, first it comes with.
It's really cool, that's right,and it has responsibility.
What are some of those?
Katie Kramer (18:55):
things.
The first thing I would say isI had a quote in my bulletin
board from the time I was inmiddle school.
I don't know where it cameacross it, but it's a quote by
Louis Pasteur.
That was comparison is thedeath of true self-contentment,
so something like that.
I may have misquoted thatexactly, but the thinking I try
(19:16):
not to think about that too muchbecause sometimes that feels
too big.
I don't, I try not to thinkabout that too much because
sometimes that that feels toobig.
That that responsibility, Ijust, I just do me.
Jandel Allen-Davis (19:27):
I love it.
Katie Kramer (19:29):
What else can?
Jandel Allen-Davis (19:30):
you do Right .
Katie Kramer (19:31):
I mean I, I cannot .
I'm never going to be Jandel,Allen Davis or Tim Schultz or
who you pick the leader.
I just want to be Katie Kramer,mandela, Allen Davis or Tim
Schultz or who you pick theleader.
I just know how to be KatieKramer and I am grateful for my
parents for always justencouraging me to be me, and so
I just try to think about thethings that I value.
(19:52):
I think that that guides me,things that I care about and how
I show up, and I think one ofthe special ways that and I
don't this is I don't, it's nota female thing.
The first thing, it's just amaybe a Katie thing yes.
(20:15):
I just believe we're wholepeople, jandel, like I don't
know how you can like not comeinto even the workplace and not
acknowledge the fact that youhave spit up on your shoulder or
the car didn't start or the dogwhatever, blah, blah, blah.
That doesn't mean that we'renot professional in the
workplace, but it's just arecognition that people always
are carrying some load and wenever know that.
(20:35):
And so if you don't show upwith empathy, no matter what
gender you identify with, that's.
I think one of the mostimportant things is seeing
people in their wholeness.
Jandel Allen-Davis (20:49):
And if I can interrupt, I would go so far as
to say, first of all, I'll sayamen.
I used to say to the lastexecutive team I sat on and say
here too that I'll say itdifferently.
I say people.
I used to say our people.
I would say those we serve wantto see us and they want to be
seen by us.
They want to see us.
Amen, the whole of us, totally.
(21:12):
You know, for me, when I haveto sort of say something that
may feel I don't know some way,and it's how I'm choosing to
hear it or think it, you know, Isay, oh my gosh, my pits are
sweating.
Right, because their pits sweattoo.
Katie Kramer (21:25):
And when you allow yourself, if you allow yourself
to bring your whole self towork and show up in all your
humanness, right and all thecrazy ways.
Jandel Allen-Davis (21:33):
It's that thing that Marianne Williamson
said, or it's also, I thinkNelson Mandela must have said it
in a speech that when we hideour light under a bushel basket,
we're not serving anyone andshowing your light, bringing all
your wonderfulness.
That's why I'm sitting heresmiling at you, because you
listen, I can't be Katie Kramer,let's just call it.
(21:55):
You're saying you can't be.
Oh my gosh, you're amazing.
When you do that, it givespermission for others to bring
their whole selves in too.
Don't be so dang buttoned up,no doubt.
And the other thing I will sayis.
Katie Kramer (22:08):
I deeply believe that from our emotion, from our
heart, comes the power.
I really believe that it's headand heart together and I will
tell people you know, I'm notashamed to say that there are
things what we do is deeplymeaningful.
It brings me to tears and also,when things are hard, I cry.
(22:28):
You know, my God, like I'mfeeling overwhelmed with my
schedule.
My sweet executive assistant,megan's, like what can we do so?
And I tell folks don't you everapologize for your tears?
Amen.
It really means.
It just means that you caredeeply, or you're touched by it,
or it's hard, yeah.
Jandel Allen-Davis (22:49):
And it is and again it brings.
I think that's one of the thingsthat makes for great cultures
is enabling and creating thespace for people to bring their
whole selves to work and to besupported and to give support,
and there's something aboutCraig that makes that, I think,
(23:09):
essential, and it can be a workin progress at different times.
But even just coming up to dothis interview, I got on the
elevator because there was apatient, a family member, who
were also on, and so Iintroduced myself and said hello
, and as I was getting off attwo and they were going up to
four, as I was standing therejust asking a little bit about
them to see this person's familymember just go.
(23:30):
Thank you so much for this and.
I said you're welcome.
I said, and I'm about to cry,and she's about to cry.
And so I had a dear friend andmentor from my Kaiser Permanente
days, carrie Conan, who saidyou should cry every day.
Yeah, she cried every day.
It just means what you're doingmatters, and sometimes it's the
hard tears and a lot of timesit's just tears of joy and you
(23:53):
know or tears of breakthrough,or eurekas, you name it.
Katie Kramer (24:01):
It's all kinds of things that I get to see here
that just make me so excited andhappy.
Well, and we're lucky to workin these mission-driven
organizations that you get theprivilege of helping, yeah.
Jandel Allen-Davis (24:07):
What are those few leadership lessons or
leadership, I'd say,requirements that you think that
folks need to have, and is yourresponsibility to help them
learn.
Katie Kramer (24:19):
Right, wow, the thing that comes to mind first
is listening.
Jandel Allen-Davis (24:25):
That would be good.
Yes, in a lot of places thesedays.
Katie Kramer (24:27):
Listening, everywhere listening, and we've
invested, like just even inprofessional development in our
on our own team about how how tolisten and and I think we do
that as an organizationprofessionally listen right Like
what are people's needs, howcan we serve, and so I think
that's a critical thing for anyleader in their development to
(24:52):
listen to what people needaround them, to notice, to be
empathetic about those types ofthings.
So I feel like that is one ofthe most important things that I
see in my daily work and itcarries over when I think about
how we develop our own leadersat the Bachelor Foundation and
we invest deeply in everyone'sleadership development.
(25:14):
We believe everyone is a leader.
Everyone has their ownindividual development plan.
We talk about what are theirdreams short-term, mid-term,
long-term because we want to bepart of that journey.
And again, the journey may notalways be a betcher, but there's
really transparentconversations that happen
amongst our team about how doyou want to grow, and we have
(25:39):
feedback loops built in rightthat we're talking about things
quarterly, so there's an abilityto take ownership in your own
growth right internally atBetcher, but how we think about
(26:01):
that for our own team and forour scholars.
So I'm even thinking we haveour scholars experience, which
is our retreat for all theincoming students that are
starting college in the fall, aswell as all of our current
students that are at theuniversity.
And that's part, fundamentally,of what we talk about.
We talk about mental health, wetalk about listening, we talk
about how to be empathetic,support people in need, support
(26:25):
friends, how to be good, how tobe a good friend, how to
compromise.
You know, some of those, thosepieces which I wish especially,
you know, charged in our worldright now.
It feels contentious, it is,and I just I think if we were
able to continue to see the bigpicture and there's always lost
(26:48):
Jandel, and you can't always getyour way, and so you know, when
leaders come to the table,whether they're trying to
compromise about water inColorado or whatever that is,
you know there's values inconflict.
The reality is we usually havethe same values.
It's just a matter of how muchyou prioritize them or whatever.
(27:09):
So I think if you can look forwhere we have the commonalities
and come from that, I think thatthat really helps you to be
effective in a leadershipcontext, no matter what your
context is.
Jandel Allen-Davis (27:23):
So listening , and I would think, just
knowing you, that it's listeningto the said and the unsaid.
So true Listening can involveway more than just your ears.
Katie Kramer (27:32):
Well, and what's not being said right, and who's
not invited to the table?
Jandel Allen-Davis (27:37):
And what's that body language over there
saying?
So I'll say to folks I can seeyour thought clouds.
I can't see what's in them, butI can see just based on things.
So there's the listening partthere.
You know, as I've heard about,the phrase I use is have these
(27:59):
invisible backpacks that are, insome parts, lived experience,
in some part what happened thatmorning.
Katie Kramer (28:06):
Right, you know those sorts of things that
you're bringing into the office.
Jandel Allen-Davis (28:09):
So I heard sort of appreciating that and
there's a phrase that if I weregoing to encapsulate this and it
is an important leadershipthing what I didn't hear you say
is learn the finances, learnthe quality.
I mean, those are you know.
Learn, you know.
That's what I think about.
And well, we all need to, nomatter the thing that, that
(28:29):
really this isn't a game ofshowing what you know, it's that
what's that phrase that goespeople don't care what you know,
know until they know that youcare.
Katie Kramer (28:42):
Oh, so great.
Jandel Allen-Davis (28:43):
Yes, absolutely.
Katie Kramer (28:45):
And it is.
It's beyond IQ, it is the EQpiece right here, the emotional
intelligence, and I think evenother things I've been reading
too, jendell, just in a worldthat is so volatile and changing
, is your AQ, your adaptabilityquotient, which I love, yeah, so
there's some.
I wish I was, I could keep it inmy mind to give credit to
(29:08):
people that are smarter than me,that have those ideas, but I
definitely see that the abilityto things change so quickly and
one of the things that I didn'tsay that I think that's part of
it, and the challenge of aleader is you know how you were
talking about, seeing what's notsaid and the thought clouds, or
whatever.
But I think one of the thingsthat I struggle with too is just
(29:30):
the courage sometimes to callit out or take action on it,
because you know we have a goodthing going and we're getting
along and there's but there'sstill some conflict.
So, you know, making sure thatyou have the courage to step
into that.
Or you can read the room andhow hot the system is, and I'm
(29:52):
using air quotes here- for thoseof the context, of how far you
can push.
And one of my other favoriteleadership quotes leadership is
disappointing people.
At a rate they can accept MartyLinsky and Ron Heifetz.
I love that I love their workand what I like about that is
sometimes and I think that thisis where we get stuck sometimes
(30:12):
in life you end up with you'repassionate about a cause and you
care so deeply and you wantchange now and you want to burn
it down because you can't takeit anymore.
Yes, and there are sometimessystems or people that can't
accept change, and so you haveto have a balance for how far
(30:33):
can you push and how much do youneed to bring people along,
because I think part of thatleadership challenge is talking
to people, inviting them intothe conversation, having
ownership as part of thesolution.
But I think that that's tough,is pacing.
Change is tough sometimes.
Jandel Allen-Davis (30:51):
I think it's one of you know.
Even back to the question Iasked about what will and I'm
going to say we do or how are wenavigating leadership,
following folks who have builtstrong organizations with an
understanding that we're goingto add to the strength is the
pace of that kind of change?
And so I'm just grateful thatyou talked about how that can be
(31:13):
tough.
And I think the other thingthat is sort of part of that is
this how do you manage thatconflict, whether it's you know
well, wait a minute, you're not,we're not old, this isn't like
we used to do it or those sortsof things how you manage and
work through that in a way thatpreserves your soul and doesn't
let us get afraid to do what weneed to do or question the
(31:35):
systems that must be torn down.
Yeah, and you got to do it.
You got to do it, and I don'tknow how you do it, but I'll
tell you that for me it's.
I want this place to be here 100years from now, 200 years, 117
year old institution.
Awesome that.
Back to adaptive quotients.
They've lived it, starting withtb right and polio, yes, and
(31:57):
now neuro rehabilitation forspinal cord and brain injury um,
now they're not going to let medeliver babies here.
I always have to say that atsome point We've got plenty of
work to do in this space.
There is so much to do, both interms of the current building
off of the legacy, of what thiswonderful, wonderful gem for the
country, let alone the world,is in some ways.
(32:17):
But then it's future.
We've got exciting plans thatgo beyond capital, you know, in
terms of the physical space.
But, thinking about thecommunities, back to some of the
work that you all are eventhinking about the communities
out there that we send patientsback to and I'll call them
patients then when we send themback but they are persons, they
(32:40):
are people living alongside adisability.
They are persons, they arepeople living alongside a
disability, and there's work todo in those communities that we
have a responsibility to engagein, lead, make better for people
, and that one's not a hard oneto push, but it's certainly at
all.
I mean people are excited aboutthe potential there and see the
(33:03):
importance and see the enormityof a task like that and how you
even do it alongside otherpartners, while doing the work
we need to do today Right Toevolve our inpatient programs.
Katie Kramer (33:11):
Past present, future.
Jandel Allen-Davis (33:12):
You're always living it Well.
I want to thank you, but I alsowant to make sure I give you
last word.
Katie Kramer (33:17):
Oh, I'm grateful.
So my last word is gratitude.
Thank you, friend, so much andyou have continued to be a
wonderful role model and friendfor me these many years and it's
awesome to be on the journeytogether.
Jandel Allen-Davis (33:30):
So it's a journey we're going to take it,
thank you, thank you, wow.
So Katie and I go back nearly20 years in friendship.
It's coming on pretty soon nextyear It'll be 20 years that
we've known each other and I'vewatched her growth Not that she
(33:52):
didn't already start as such astrong leader even back then and
it's been just a real gift toknow a leader of this caliber
and a friend and a person and awoman of this caliber.
So much was packed into ourtime together.
I like the concept ofphilanthropy in four dimensions
(34:15):
that it's not just about thetreasure they give away, but the
time that they invest in thosethat they serve, the opportunity
to help develop talent throughphilanthropy not just those who
are asking, but how they usetheir or she uses her role in
supporting communities toconnect people and obviously the
(34:38):
treasure, but also the ties.
That is, we're buildingcommunity, we're making new
friends, we're connecting newpeople, new ideas.
What an amazing treasure and anessential part of strong
communities.
Great foundations are and greatphilanthropy of all sorts are,
and I think it's one of the moreimportant roles that we play as
(35:01):
leaders is this idea ofrecognizing that we actually
serve missions, we servecommunities and to think about
(35:24):
leadership.
I love that she grounded whatwe do wonderful, wonderful
organizations and ouraccountability, responsibility
and the joy is to make surethose organizations endure.
While we're evolving them basedon what's needed at the time,
you never forget the essentialparts of the legacy that's been
built, the core of whoorganizations are, and we have
to make sure, in order to servethe future, that we're paying
and very close attention and aremindful of the present.
(35:46):
And then, of course, we've gotto be looking out over the
horizon, based on what we'reseeing right now around what
next?
And having to step boldly andcourageously into those spaces,
even when our voice is shaking,as I said.
And then this idea, because ofwhat philanthropy has the
ability to do through being moreflexible, about matching
(36:07):
capital to needs, then lookingat the work that they're doing
now, recognizing that we are indesperate, desperate need of
strong leadership on so manyplanes and dimensions today, and
supporting communities this wayis important.
And then, my heavens, theadaptability quotient.
When I wrote that down, Ithought well, that is Craig's
(36:27):
DNA, you know, in terms of both,who we serve, but also in terms
of this incredible team ofprofessionals of all stripes
that have to meet patients andfamilies where they are and
adapt their style in order to dothe best work that we do here.
There's a versatility that'spart of being adaptable.
(36:50):
That really is a true coreleadership strength and probably
finally I mean Katie's clearlyamazing I mean good grief.
You know multi-generationalColoradan, just always a person
who says yes to opportunity butleads boldly and courageously
and has the ability at the sametime, to be vulnerable and talk
(37:11):
about the tough stuff.
I loved this conversationbecause of that.
But you know, finally, thatrecognition that part of what
builds strong cultures and makesthem endure is making sure that
we really are tending to thatnext group of leaders and the
opportunity that we all have tolead from wherever we stand, and
(37:32):
that leadership is so, so, somuch more than a title.
So I would say again you know Ifeel so blessed to get to do
what I do every day in serviceto Craig Hospital and our
community and theseconversations, trust me, I get
way more than I give and I'vetaken away from Katie today some
(37:55):
real cool things to think aboutin terms of how I serve at
Craig, but also how I care formyself, and I hope you did too.
So thank you for making time tobe part of this Unstoppable at
Craig episode.
Thanks so much.
Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig, where we
pull back the curtain on whatmakes healthy workplace cultures
click and what happens whenpeople are empowered to expand
the boundaries of what ispossible.
We'll explore the perspectivesof employees and leaders who
have carte blanche to speaktheir truths, tell their stories
and unlock uncommon ways ofapproaching challenges.
I'm Dr Jandel Allen-Davis, CEOand President of Craig Hospital,
(00:27):
a world-renowned rehabilitationhospital that exclusively
specializes in theneurorehabilitation and research
of patients with spinal cordand brain injury.
Join me as we learn from peoplewho love what they do and what
happens when fear doesn't stifleinnovation.
Welcome to another episode ofUnstoppable at Craig, and today
(00:49):
I am joined by Katie Kramer, whois the president and CEO of the
Betcher Foundation.
And you know, as we think about,remember that the theme of, or
the.
If there's a thread that runsthrough every episode of
Unstoppable, it's this notion ofwhat makes for great cultures,
and there are things that aretangible, there are things that
(01:11):
are intangible, that are part ofthe leadership alchemy that
pulls together great cultures,and there's something really, as
those of us who have eitherbeen beneficiaries of
philanthropy or those who havebeen able to actually be the
benefactors of philanthropy,there's something incredible
(01:32):
that, that sort of generosityfrom millions of people
sometimes a family, sometimeseven in the smallest ways what
that fuels in terms of the powerof leadership to truly
transform and change lives.
And so it's just going to befun to spend some time with my
dear friend, katie Kramer, andwe go way back.
(01:54):
We go way back to 2006.
That's unbelievable how fasttime flies and what our journeys
have taken us to where they'vetaken us over that very, very
long time.
So I want to thank you, a forjust saying yeah, let's talk.
That's always fun.
But also the Betcher Foundationhas been an amazing, amazing
partner of Craig and it is partof the fuel that makes this
(02:16):
place so, so wonderful.
So, on behalf of people who arein beds right now here at Craig
, family members who aresupporting them, team members
who are doing the work that theydo to support those families,
those who have come before andactually even those who don't
know they're going to need usbut Will I just say thank you,
thank you, thank you and welcomeWell thank you, what a way to
(02:39):
start, jandel.
Katie Kramer (02:40):
You always get me right there in the heart and
just knowing what an incredibleplace that this is.
And for me, the relationshipwith Craig is deeply personal,
in addition to beingprofessional and the fact that
we've been friends for so longand you're here as following
(03:02):
many incredible leaders at Craigover the years.
But you in this role here andthis place for our community,
you know one of a kind and it'san honor to come alongside, and
the Betcher Foundation I knowhas supported with many grants
over the years and in themission, and so thank you what
you do for the world the worldnot just our, not just Colorado.
Jandel Allen-Davis (03:26):
Well, we both got to say thank you, and I
will say you are more than morethan welcome, and I think it's
interesting that you saidthere's the better sort of part
of which is such a huge part ofyour story, but then that it's
deeply and intensely personaltoo.
So why don't you just start bysharing some of your journey,
that journey from intern topresident and CEO?
And you're celebrating goodgrief.
(03:47):
How can it be your 27thanniversary as a foundation?
Katie Kramer (03:51):
But tell your story?
Well, sure, so I did.
I alluded to the fact that therelationship with Craig was
personal and that goes beyondour friendship, because the
mission is deeply personal to meand I don't know that a lot of
people know this about my story,but I was in a car accident
when I was 22 years old and hada traumatic brain injury, and
(04:14):
there was a period of time whenI didn't know if I'd ever be
able to work again, and so theimpact on my family and my
friends, it was profound, and sothe impact on my family and my
friends, it was profound.
And so just to share a littlebit more of the depth of that
story and then sort of how itfits in with the Betcher story
too, so I'll take you back toninth grade.
(04:39):
I walk into my new high schooland there was this wonderful
guidance counselor, mrsBornhauser, who called me into
her office and she said Kate, Ithink you might be Betcher
material.
Jandel Allen-Davis (04:49):
And I know, and I was like oh my goodness,
what is that?
Katie Kramer (04:51):
But I better find out.
And then had heard of thewonderful Betcher scholarship
and so made it my goalthroughout high school to try to
put myself into a position justto compete, because it's very
competitive, and feel veryblessed that I was lucky to be
40 of the students that werechosen that year when I
graduated from high school in1993.
(05:14):
And so I had the chance.
It was life changing.
Betcher's invested in me too.
I'm a beneficiary, but theyinvested in my potential and
paid for my undergraduateeducation.
I went to CU Boulder and so Ihad a wonderful experience there
.
And it ends up being a fullcircle story with Betcher,
(05:36):
because when I was justfinishing up senior year, there
was this fellowship positionthat was advertised at the
Betcher Foundation and I thoughthow wonderful.
I was newly married to mywonderful partner, Joe Kramer,
and we thought how perfect forme to take a year it was a
year-long fellowship and giveback to this organization that
(05:56):
had invested in me.
And actually my sister won aBadger scholarship too, so it
literally changed generations ofour family to have the gift
gift my parents didn't have toworry about our education and so
the chance to work there undera wonderful leader, Tim Schultz,
and have this fellowship.
I got the job and was realexcited to start, and it was.
(06:18):
I was commuting from Boulder.
I was just finishing up a lastsemester at CU.
I was just finishing up a lastsemester at CU, and on my way
down to work in downtown Denver,where we're located on Highway
36, classic story Traffic cameto a stop and I was able to stop
, but the person behind mewasn't, and so I think the thing
that is so just paradoxicalabout it is, you know, it seemed
(06:41):
like it was like $2,000 worthof damage to my car.
(07:06):
You know, it seemed like it waslike $2,000 worth of damage to
my car and you know the thing,it was almost seven years before
I fully recovered in all theways.
So so much too, but I hadseizures as a result of that
experience and I did all sortsof therapy because I had a neck
injury as well as the braininjury.
But for somebody who had anidentity that I felt like if I
worked hard enough, I couldalways get the A or I couldn't
do that anymore.
Get the A or I couldn't do thatanymore.
(07:28):
And so I remember when I wasplaying Yahtzee with Joe at the
time and I couldn't add the dice, I think we didn't know right
away that I had the extent ofthe injury, but or couldn't
remember, like the, a phonenumber, all the digits, or would
feel like I'd be reading thesame thing.
I was still in school, so tryingto read the same passages over
and over and over and notfeeling like I could get the
(07:49):
wiring in my brain to understandwhat I was reading.
And then, you know, had thechance to do cognitive therapy
and stuff, and so I'm just sograteful that there were
therapists and neurologists andthat came alongside me in that
recovery.
But yeah, it was.
It was a really scary time andand my neurologist did tell Joe
(08:11):
privately I did not know this atthe time that he wasn't sure
that I would be able to workfull time and a lot of that
stemmed from just the, just theseizures I would continue to
have.
So you know, fighting backthrough that, I am grateful for
all the support and I wasdetermined.
Jandel Allen-Davis (08:30):
I really was .
Katie Kramer (08:31):
So, at any rate, that's a little bit about that
piece, and then the rest of thejourney at Betcher Jandel is.
I'm grateful to them forhelping me through that really
difficult time in my life wherethey cut back hours for me and
allowed me some accommodationsto be able to continue to work.
I'm so grateful for that.
(08:52):
And it was about within a yearthat we had a position open.
It was a longtime scholarshipsecretary at the time and I, at
22, had the audaciousness to puttogether a proposal of what if
we hired a director of thescholarship program.
And then I applied.
Oh, I love it I wanted the joband Tim believed in me and let
(09:17):
me have the chance to run ourscholarship program for five
years and then invited me to bethe vice president when I was 26
years old and I certainly grewinto that 26 years old.
And I certainly grew into thatrole over time and I've been the
CEO for the last seven and ahalf, so I cannot believe that
it's been like a blink, but I'vehad a chance to do just about
every job at the FletcherFoundation in the period of
those 27 years.
Jandel Allen-Davis (09:38):
Yeah, there was so much in that.
Katie Kramer (09:40):
I'm sorry, yes, no , no, no, no, no, and I can I
could wait.
Jandel Allen-Davis (09:43):
So, first of all, thank you for sharing that
way that you know the your yourexperience with this brain
injury traumatic brain injuryand you're mentioning that it
changed you that that you knowthat's nobody wants these, but
there are ways we hear thiswalking through the halls.
I know this about patientswhether spinal cord or brain
(10:04):
injury who there's a resiliencethat kicks in, especially if
you're supported by the rightfolk.
And by the right folk it's notjust the great therapist.
That is what happens withinthis health care domain, in an
organization that says she isone of ours and we're going to
(10:26):
invest in her and we're going tomake, we're going to provide
the kinds of accommodations thatenable her to get back to or
move ahead to whatever's next.
And you know, that's a mark ofgreat cultures that I felt it
important to say publicly onthis podcast, because we are
wasting talent when we don't.
(10:46):
And look at you today.
And it also goes to show howmiraculous the brain can be.
You know that recovery can takesome time, but it does happen.
Brains are that squishy littlebit of gelatin between our ears,
does amazing, amazing things,and it is, at the same time,
still a mystery.
But the other thing I heardback to Tim who doesn't love Tim
(11:10):
Schultz?
Let's just start there in termsof the kind of culture he had
built that enabled you to stayfor 27 years and he said yes,
when you brought things, talkabout the culture at the
foundation.
Katie Kramer (11:24):
I think that's a great story of evolution, Jandel
, and what Tim brought to it andI feel proud to continue is, I
think, that philanthropy.
And just quick background aboutVetra Foundation private family
foundation started in 1937 by awonderful, generous family of
serial entrepreneurs in thestate.
They were immigrants.
(11:44):
They came here like so manywanting to work hard and build
something and build a family anda life and a community.
And they did well.
They were blessed, they didwell and they decided they
wanted to give back and investin the state of Colorado.
So we do only grantmaking inthe state of Colorado back and
(12:05):
invest in the state of Colorado.
So we do only grant making inthe state of Colorado.
And throughout that time we'vegiven away like $420 million in
every part of the state.
But the story of that it's now87 years old.
The Betcher Foundation.
And when Tim started the periodof time, my first jobs, jandel,
when I started as the internwith the fellowship position, I
(12:28):
got the first domain name.
I built thank you, cu Boulder,leeds College of Business for my
business education, but builtthe website, wow, built a
selection database to, you know,try to automate some of our all
the handwritten selectionprocess that was formerly of the
better scholarship program tothe first marketing brochure.
So we were coming in a timewhere technology was everything
(12:52):
was done.
When I started, you know,people were still there, were
secretaries and executives andwe were on typewriters and not
networked computers.
That was another job that I hadto do.
So there's a reputationsometimes with philanthropy that
it's like the ivory tower andvery inaccessible and stuffy and
I would say that there may havebeen some of that.
I was certainly intimidatedcoming from my better
(13:15):
scholarship interview when I was18 years old.
Jandel Allen-Davis (13:20):
You would have been anyway, right?
Yes, of course.
Katie Kramer (13:23):
But I think what the work to make and continues
to be our work to make, what wedo, we are servants and what we
do we cannot do without peoplelike Craig and all the
organizations that we invest inthroughout the state.
So to make sure that our workis accessible, that we are
(13:52):
partners in helping people getthe resources that they need.
And so he tore down that ivorytower and those walls and I love
that.
He used to say, jandel, our job, we can't fund everybody and
not everything fits ourpriorities.
Like it just doesn't you dothese things and other
foundations do other things.
But he said it's a goal alwaysthat someone, if they're going
to meet with us, that we givethem three ideas they didn't
(14:12):
have.
And so this idea of trying to bea connector there's that
resources does doesn't mean likemoney always, but it's your.
It's your the connections, theability to connect dots, like we
work throughout the state.
So I know what happened inMancos last year and Holyoke
last year and Cortez, and sowhen people come to us coming
(14:36):
with a project that's similar,we connect dots for them and
sometimes we give grants but wecontinue to, I think, provide
our value and part of ourphilanthropy is our people that
work there.
We're part of this gift thatthe Boettcher family, I think,
invested in for the people ofColorado, that we help people
find access to resources.
Jandel Allen-Davis (15:13):
Gosh you know it's interesting.
Katie Kramer (15:14):
I think that we talk about.
You know the phrase that wehave the opportunity to give.
They've been chosen because oftheir leadership and their
service, their heart for service.
It's wonderful, and so we talkabout that philanthropy.
I think the way we define it istime, talent, treasure and ties
.
Ties Because one of the thingsand that's that connection piece
(15:36):
, like if you have access to acommunity or connection, the
power of a network, you knowthat.
Well this is the LeadershipDenver Network we've been part
of through the LeadershipFoundation all these years the
power of that network that wecan bring to bear to the people
that we're supporting andserving.
It's powerful beyond just themoney that you show up and share
(15:59):
your talents or you give yourtime.
You know, invest, even withyour dollars, gosh, you know.
So it's like pay it forward.
Jandel Allen-Davis (16:06):
It's a force multiplier.
You know all the words we use,and I love the ties part,
because I think one of the mostimportant thing we do as leaders
is service connectors of ideas,of systems, of people, of
places.
And how cool that you get to dothe work statewide and can
connect communities to eachother, great ideas, work that's
going on other places.
(16:26):
You know I love thegenerational issues of being in
roles, like whatever the rolesare.
When I was in my mid-40s, I wasat KP, kaiser Permanente and
had little ones, but I was inclinical practice, so I wasn't
home many nights.
Well, every third to fourthnight I was out somewhere
delivering babies and takingcare of women.
(16:47):
And then to find ourselves inthese CEO roles as women.
There's lots of different, itseems to me, lenses.
We could look at that throughwhether it's the lens of ages
and stages, and I'd wonder,though, through the lens of
being a female CEO, and notnecessarily even mid-40s with
kids.
But in what other ways did youneed to, or have you had to,
(17:08):
navigate challenges but alsoopportunities Like what do we
uniquely bring when we tap intoand I'm going to say it this way
that feminine sort of spirit, Isuppose, because men can tap
into that too.
I think we can do our masculineand our feminine.
That's some of what we have tobe able to do?
Katie Kramer (17:24):
That's a great question, and I think one of the
things that I feel most proudof in my life is I've had a
chance to be, an opportunity tobe a trailblazer in a couple
ways the first female XYZ likewhether it was the first I grew
up in the Episcopal church.
And I was the first firstfemale xyz like whether it was
the first I grew up in theepiscopal church and the I was
the first female acolyte in ourchurch I wanted to be an altar
(17:46):
boy.
Jandel Allen-Davis (17:46):
Yeah, they didn't have them back in the day
, yeah, I was proud of that cooland even um.
Katie Kramer (17:52):
I was the first executive at betcher that was a
female, like we had wonderful umagain.
They were called secretaries atthe time, but I was the first
person that didn't have thattitle in that role.
And then, even coming into thisrole, I'm the first female CEO,
the youngest and the firstVector Scholar, and so I take
(18:14):
great pride in that being thefirst, and also it feels like a
lot of responsibility.
Jandel Allen-Davis (18:21):
It cuts a few ways, doesn't it?
Exactly, those firsts aresomething I don't think that hit
me until sometimes, since I'vebeen over here.
First woman.
Katie Kramer (18:30):
I agree.
Ceo.
Jandel Allen-Davis (18:31):
First African-American CEO of either
gender, and then a number ofthose crazy firsts Talk about I
was going to ask.
This is going to be my nextquestion how do you define or
how do you characterize theresponsibility that you carry
with it, that it comes with With?
Katie Kramer (18:47):
being the first yeah.
Jandel Allen-Davis (18:48):
As you said, first it comes with.
It's really cool, that's right,and it has responsibility.
What are some of those?
Katie Kramer (18:55):
things.
The first thing I would say isI had a quote in my bulletin
board from the time I was inmiddle school.
I don't know where it cameacross it, but it's a quote by
Louis Pasteur.
That was comparison is thedeath of true self-contentment,
so something like that.
I may have misquoted thatexactly, but the thinking I try
(19:16):
not to think about that too muchbecause sometimes that feels
too big.
I don't, I try not to thinkabout that too much because
sometimes that that feels toobig.
That that responsibility, Ijust, I just do me.
Jandel Allen-Davis (19:27):
I love it.
Katie Kramer (19:29):
What else can?
Jandel Allen-Davis (19:30):
you do Right .
Katie Kramer (19:31):
I mean I, I cannot .
I'm never going to be Jandel,Allen Davis or Tim Schultz or
who you pick the leader.
I just want to be Katie Kramer,mandela, Allen Davis or Tim
Schultz or who you pick theleader.
I just know how to be KatieKramer and I am grateful for my
parents for always justencouraging me to be me, and so
I just try to think about thethings that I value.
(19:52):
I think that that guides me,things that I care about and how
I show up, and I think one ofthe special ways that and I
don't this is I don't, it's nota female thing.
The first thing, it's just amaybe a Katie thing yes.
(20:15):
I just believe we're wholepeople, jandel, like I don't
know how you can like not comeinto even the workplace and not
acknowledge the fact that youhave spit up on your shoulder or
the car didn't start or the dogwhatever, blah, blah, blah.
That doesn't mean that we'renot professional in the
workplace, but it's just arecognition that people always
are carrying some load and wenever know that.
(20:35):
And so if you don't show upwith empathy, no matter what
gender you identify with, that's.
I think one of the mostimportant things is seeing
people in their wholeness.
Jandel Allen-Davis (20:49):
And if I can interrupt, I would go so far as
to say, first of all, I'll sayamen.
I used to say to the lastexecutive team I sat on and say
here too that I'll say itdifferently.
I say people.
I used to say our people.
I would say those we serve wantto see us and they want to be
seen by us.
They want to see us.
Amen, the whole of us, totally.
(21:12):
You know, for me, when I haveto sort of say something that
may feel I don't know some way,and it's how I'm choosing to
hear it or think it, you know, Isay, oh my gosh, my pits are
sweating.
Right, because their pits sweattoo.
Katie Kramer (21:25):
And when you allow yourself, if you allow yourself
to bring your whole self towork and show up in all your
humanness, right and all thecrazy ways.
Jandel Allen-Davis (21:33):
It's that thing that Marianne Williamson
said, or it's also, I thinkNelson Mandela must have said it
in a speech that when we hideour light under a bushel basket,
we're not serving anyone andshowing your light, bringing all
your wonderfulness.
That's why I'm sitting heresmiling at you, because you
listen, I can't be Katie Kramer,let's just call it.
(21:55):
You're saying you can't be.
Oh my gosh, you're amazing.
When you do that, it givespermission for others to bring
their whole selves in too.
Don't be so dang buttoned up,no doubt.
And the other thing I will sayis.
Katie Kramer (22:08):
I deeply believe that from our emotion, from our
heart, comes the power.
I really believe that it's headand heart together and I will
tell people you know, I'm notashamed to say that there are
things what we do is deeplymeaningful.
It brings me to tears and also,when things are hard, I cry.
(22:28):
You know, my God, like I'mfeeling overwhelmed with my
schedule.
My sweet executive assistant,megan's, like what can we do so?
And I tell folks don't you everapologize for your tears?
Amen.
It really means.
It just means that you caredeeply, or you're touched by it,
or it's hard, yeah.
Jandel Allen-Davis (22:49):
And it is and again it brings.
I think that's one of the thingsthat makes for great cultures
is enabling and creating thespace for people to bring their
whole selves to work and to besupported and to give support,
and there's something aboutCraig that makes that, I think,
(23:09):
essential, and it can be a workin progress at different times.
But even just coming up to dothis interview, I got on the
elevator because there was apatient, a family member, who
were also on, and so Iintroduced myself and said hello
, and as I was getting off attwo and they were going up to
four, as I was standing therejust asking a little bit about
them to see this person's familymember just go.
(23:30):
Thank you so much for this and.
I said you're welcome.
I said, and I'm about to cry,and she's about to cry.
And so I had a dear friend andmentor from my Kaiser Permanente
days, carrie Conan, who saidyou should cry every day.
Yeah, she cried every day.
It just means what you're doingmatters, and sometimes it's the
hard tears and a lot of timesit's just tears of joy and you
(23:53):
know or tears of breakthrough,or eurekas, you name it.
Katie Kramer (24:01):
It's all kinds of things that I get to see here
that just make me so excited andhappy.
Well, and we're lucky to workin these mission-driven
organizations that you get theprivilege of helping, yeah.
Jandel Allen-Davis (24:07):
What are those few leadership lessons or
leadership, I'd say,requirements that you think that
folks need to have, and is yourresponsibility to help them
learn.
Katie Kramer (24:19):
Right, wow, the thing that comes to mind first
is listening.
Jandel Allen-Davis (24:25):
That would be good.
Yes, in a lot of places thesedays.
Katie Kramer (24:27):
Listening, everywhere listening, and we've
invested, like just even inprofessional development in our
on our own team about how how tolisten and and I think we do
that as an organizationprofessionally listen right Like
what are people's needs, howcan we serve, and so I think
that's a critical thing for anyleader in their development to
(24:52):
listen to what people needaround them, to notice, to be
empathetic about those types ofthings.
So I feel like that is one ofthe most important things that I
see in my daily work and itcarries over when I think about
how we develop our own leadersat the Bachelor Foundation and
we invest deeply in everyone'sleadership development.
(25:14):
We believe everyone is a leader.
Everyone has their ownindividual development plan.
We talk about what are theirdreams short-term, mid-term,
long-term because we want to bepart of that journey.
And again, the journey may notalways be a betcher, but there's
really transparentconversations that happen
amongst our team about how doyou want to grow, and we have
(25:39):
feedback loops built in rightthat we're talking about things
quarterly, so there's an abilityto take ownership in your own
growth right internally atBetcher, but how we think about
(26:01):
that for our own team and forour scholars.
So I'm even thinking we haveour scholars experience, which
is our retreat for all theincoming students that are
starting college in the fall, aswell as all of our current
students that are at theuniversity.
And that's part, fundamentally,of what we talk about.
We talk about mental health, wetalk about listening, we talk
about how to be empathetic,support people in need, support
(26:25):
friends, how to be good, how tobe a good friend, how to
compromise.
You know, some of those, thosepieces which I wish especially,
you know, charged in our worldright now.
It feels contentious, it is,and I just I think if we were
able to continue to see the bigpicture and there's always lost
(26:48):
Jandel, and you can't always getyour way, and so you know, when
leaders come to the table,whether they're trying to
compromise about water inColorado or whatever that is,
you know there's values inconflict.
The reality is we usually havethe same values.
It's just a matter of how muchyou prioritize them or whatever.
(27:09):
So I think if you can look forwhere we have the commonalities
and come from that, I think thatthat really helps you to be
effective in a leadershipcontext, no matter what your
context is.
Jandel Allen-Davis (27:23):
So listening , and I would think, just
knowing you, that it's listeningto the said and the unsaid.
So true Listening can involveway more than just your ears.
Katie Kramer (27:32):
Well, and what's not being said right, and who's
not invited to the table?
Jandel Allen-Davis (27:37):
And what's that body language over there
saying?
So I'll say to folks I can seeyour thought clouds.
I can't see what's in them, butI can see just based on things.
So there's the listening partthere.
You know, as I've heard about,the phrase I use is have these
(27:59):
invisible backpacks that are, insome parts, lived experience,
in some part what happened thatmorning.
Katie Kramer (28:06):
Right, you know those sorts of things that
you're bringing into the office.
Jandel Allen-Davis (28:09):
So I heard sort of appreciating that and
there's a phrase that if I weregoing to encapsulate this and it
is an important leadershipthing what I didn't hear you say
is learn the finances, learnthe quality.
I mean, those are you know.
Learn, you know.
That's what I think about.
And well, we all need to, nomatter the thing that, that
(28:29):
really this isn't a game ofshowing what you know, it's that
what's that phrase that goespeople don't care what you know,
know until they know that youcare.
Katie Kramer (28:42):
Oh, so great.
Jandel Allen-Davis (28:43):
Yes, absolutely.
Katie Kramer (28:45):
And it is.
It's beyond IQ, it is the EQpiece right here, the emotional
intelligence, and I think evenother things I've been reading
too, jendell, just in a worldthat is so volatile and changing
, is your AQ, your adaptabilityquotient, which I love, yeah, so
there's some.
I wish I was, I could keep it inmy mind to give credit to
(29:08):
people that are smarter than me,that have those ideas, but I
definitely see that the abilityto things change so quickly and
one of the things that I didn'tsay that I think that's part of
it, and the challenge of aleader is you know how you were
talking about, seeing what's notsaid and the thought clouds, or
whatever.
But I think one of the thingsthat I struggle with too is just
(29:30):
the courage sometimes to callit out or take action on it,
because you know we have a goodthing going and we're getting
along and there's but there'sstill some conflict.
So, you know, making sure thatyou have the courage to step
into that.
Or you can read the room andhow hot the system is, and I'm
(29:52):
using air quotes here- for thoseof the context, of how far you
can push.
And one of my other favoriteleadership quotes leadership is
disappointing people.
At a rate they can accept MartyLinsky and Ron Heifetz.
I love that I love their workand what I like about that is
sometimes and I think that thisis where we get stuck sometimes
(30:12):
in life you end up with you'repassionate about a cause and you
care so deeply and you wantchange now and you want to burn
it down because you can't takeit anymore.
Yes, and there are sometimessystems or people that can't
accept change, and so you haveto have a balance for how far
(30:33):
can you push and how much do youneed to bring people along,
because I think part of thatleadership challenge is talking
to people, inviting them intothe conversation, having
ownership as part of thesolution.
But I think that that's tough,is pacing.
Change is tough sometimes.
Jandel Allen-Davis (30:51):
I think it's one of you know.
Even back to the question Iasked about what will and I'm
going to say we do or how are wenavigating leadership,
following folks who have builtstrong organizations with an
understanding that we're goingto add to the strength is the
pace of that kind of change?
And so I'm just grateful thatyou talked about how that can be
(31:13):
tough.
And I think the other thingthat is sort of part of that is
this how do you manage thatconflict, whether it's you know
well, wait a minute, you're not,we're not old, this isn't like
we used to do it or those sortsof things how you manage and
work through that in a way thatpreserves your soul and doesn't
let us get afraid to do what weneed to do or question the
(31:35):
systems that must be torn down.
Yeah, and you got to do it.
You got to do it, and I don'tknow how you do it, but I'll
tell you that for me it's.
I want this place to be here 100years from now, 200 years, 117
year old institution.
Awesome that.
Back to adaptive quotients.
They've lived it, starting withtb right and polio, yes, and
(31:57):
now neuro rehabilitation forspinal cord and brain injury um,
now they're not going to let medeliver babies here.
I always have to say that atsome point We've got plenty of
work to do in this space.
There is so much to do, both interms of the current building
off of the legacy, of what thiswonderful, wonderful gem for the
country, let alone the world,is in some ways.
(32:17):
But then it's future.
We've got exciting plans thatgo beyond capital, you know, in
terms of the physical space.
But, thinking about thecommunities, back to some of the
work that you all are eventhinking about the communities
out there that we send patientsback to and I'll call them
patients then when we send themback but they are persons, they
(32:40):
are people living alongside adisability.
They are persons, they arepeople living alongside a
disability, and there's work todo in those communities that we
have a responsibility to engagein, lead, make better for people
, and that one's not a hard oneto push, but it's certainly at
all.
I mean people are excited aboutthe potential there and see the
(33:03):
importance and see the enormityof a task like that and how you
even do it alongside otherpartners, while doing the work
we need to do today Right Toevolve our inpatient programs.
Katie Kramer (33:11):
Past present, future.
Jandel Allen-Davis (33:12):
You're always living it Well.
I want to thank you, but I alsowant to make sure I give you
last word.
Katie Kramer (33:17):
Oh, I'm grateful.
So my last word is gratitude.
Thank you, friend, so much andyou have continued to be a
wonderful role model and friendfor me these many years and it's
awesome to be on the journeytogether.
Jandel Allen-Davis (33:30):
So it's a journey we're going to take it,
thank you, thank you, wow.
So Katie and I go back nearly20 years in friendship.
It's coming on pretty soon nextyear It'll be 20 years that
we've known each other and I'vewatched her growth Not that she
(33:52):
didn't already start as such astrong leader even back then and
it's been just a real gift toknow a leader of this caliber
and a friend and a person and awoman of this caliber.
So much was packed into ourtime together.
I like the concept ofphilanthropy in four dimensions
(34:15):
that it's not just about thetreasure they give away, but the
time that they invest in thosethat they serve, the opportunity
to help develop talent throughphilanthropy not just those who
are asking, but how they usetheir or she uses her role in
supporting communities toconnect people and obviously the
(34:38):
treasure, but also the ties.
That is, we're buildingcommunity, we're making new
friends, we're connecting newpeople, new ideas.
What an amazing treasure and anessential part of strong
communities.
Great foundations are and greatphilanthropy of all sorts are,
and I think it's one of the moreimportant roles that we play as
(35:01):
leaders is this idea ofrecognizing that we actually
serve missions, we servecommunities and to think about
(35:24):
leadership.
I love that she grounded whatwe do wonderful, wonderful
organizations and ouraccountability, responsibility
and the joy is to make surethose organizations endure.
While we're evolving them basedon what's needed at the time,
you never forget the essentialparts of the legacy that's been
built, the core of whoorganizations are, and we have
to make sure, in order to servethe future, that we're paying
and very close attention and aremindful of the present.
(35:46):
And then, of course, we've gotto be looking out over the
horizon, based on what we'reseeing right now around what
next?
And having to step boldly andcourageously into those spaces,
even when our voice is shaking,as I said.
And then this idea, because ofwhat philanthropy has the
ability to do through being moreflexible, about matching
(36:07):
capital to needs, then lookingat the work that they're doing
now, recognizing that we are indesperate, desperate need of
strong leadership on so manyplanes and dimensions today, and
supporting communities this wayis important.
And then, my heavens, theadaptability quotient.
When I wrote that down, Ithought well, that is Craig's
(36:27):
DNA, you know, in terms of both,who we serve, but also in terms
of this incredible team ofprofessionals of all stripes
that have to meet patients andfamilies where they are and
adapt their style in order to dothe best work that we do here.
There's a versatility that'spart of being adaptable.
(36:50):
That really is a true coreleadership strength and probably
finally I mean Katie's clearlyamazing I mean good grief.
You know multi-generationalColoradan, just always a person
who says yes to opportunity butleads boldly and courageously
and has the ability at the sametime, to be vulnerable and talk
(37:11):
about the tough stuff.
I loved this conversationbecause of that.
But you know, finally, thatrecognition that part of what
builds strong cultures and makesthem endure is making sure that
we really are tending to thatnext group of leaders and the
opportunity that we all have tolead from wherever we stand, and
(37:32):
that leadership is so, so, somuch more than a title.
So I would say again you know Ifeel so blessed to get to do
what I do every day in serviceto Craig Hospital and our
community and theseconversations, trust me, I get
way more than I give and I'vetaken away from Katie today some
(37:55):
real cool things to think aboutin terms of how I serve at
Craig, but also how I care formyself, and I hope you did too.
So thank you for making time tobe part of this Unstoppable at
Craig episode.
Thanks so much.
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