August 21, 2023 • 31 mins
In this enlightening dialogue with Brian Vogt, CEO of the Denver Botanic Gardens, we unpick the threads of creating a flourishing work environment that fosters productivity and growth.
One of the most potent elements we identify in this discussion is the power of hiring the right people - those who are not only skilled but also possess a genuine love for their work. Such passion can transform an ordinary workspace into an extraordinary one, as evidenced by the Denver Botanic Gardens' success story. We also highlight the indispensable role of empathy, respect and connection in our dealings with the public. These aren’t just grand values; they play a significant role in challenging times, fueling dedication and hard work, which ultimately leads to rewarding outcomes.
Instead of reacting with judgment, we propose the path of compassion and empathy, examining the situation from a human perspective to understand the root cause. We delve into the essence of service in leadership roles and touch upon the idea of leaving a legacy that outlives us. This chat is not just about the dynamics of change and leadership; it's a testament to the incredible things that can happen when we practice patience and create a culture that celebrates shared vision and effective leadership. You won't want to miss these insights into leadership and the pursuit of excellence.
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Disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended for general informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. No professional relationship is implied or otherwise established by reading this document. You should not use this information to diagnose or treat a health problem or disease without consulting with a qualified healthcare provider. Craig Hospital is not affiliated with resources that may be referenced in this podcast. Craig Hospital assumes no liability for any third-party material or for any action or inaction taken as a result of any content or any suggestions made in this podcast and should not be relied upon without independent investigation. The information on this page is a public service provided by Craig Hospital and in no way represents a recommendation or endorsement by Craig Hospital. Any use of this content by a corporation or other revenue-seeking or -generating organization is prohibited unless first approved by Craig Hospital.
For more information, transcriptions and behind-the-scene photos, visit https://craighospital.org/unstoppable
Craig Hospital is a world-renowned rehabilitation hospital that exclusively specializes in neurorehabilitation and research for individuals with spinal cord injury (SCI) and brain injury (BI). Located in Englewood, Colorado, Craig Hospital is a 350,000-square-foot, 93-bed, private, not-for-profit center of excellence providing a comprehensive system of inpatient and outpatient neurorehabilitation. https://craighospital.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (00:06):
Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig, where
we pull back the curtain on whatmakes healthy workplace
cultures click and what happenswhen people are empowered to
expand the boundaries of what ispossible.
We'll explore the perspectivesof employees and leaders who
have carte blanche to speaktheir truths, tell their stories
and unlock uncommon ways ofapproaching challenges.
(00:27):
I'm Dr.
Jand el Allen- Davis, CEO andPresident of Craig Hospital, a
world-renowned rehabilitationhospital that exclusively
specializes in theneuro-rehabilitation and
research of patients with spinalcord and brain injury.
Join me as we learn from peoplewho love what they do and what
happens when fear doesn't stifleinnovation.
(00:47):
There are these people andorganizations that, if we are
blessed and privileged, we havethe opportunity to stumble upon
or be invited to join and beengaged with.
(01:08):
And it's in those moments whereyou again, if you're blessed
and privileged and lucky, towatch incredible magic happen.
In fact, given who we're goingto be speaking with today, to
watch amazing things grow andflourish.
And that has been my wonderful,wonderful journey coming to
(01:30):
know Denver Botanic Gardens.
I used to tell our guest BrianVogt, who is the CEO and
President of the Denver BotanicGardens, when we'd walk about
the gardens during the timewhere I was the board chair of
the place that you get to workin a postcard.
And it's not just a postcardbecause of the incredible beauty
(01:53):
of those spaces and places thatyou've got responsibility and
accountability for.
You work in a postcard becauseof what I got to see around
people who work in a place thatthey truly love.
They all understand how whatthey do leads to, encourages,
invites the kind of flourishingand growth that we get to see,
(02:16):
and the beauty that we, asattendees and members, get to
see, and so we're going to spendsome time together talking
about how you build greatcultures, cultures of excellence
.
And so it's my absolute honor,privilege and pleasure to invite
you to Craig and ourUnstoppable at Craig podcast to
talk about our relationship, ourfriendship and the gardens and
(02:39):
just our journeys in leadershipand why it's so, so important to
think about what great culturesdo in terms of impacting
excellence.
So welcome, Brian.
Brian Vogt (02:50):
Oh, you're so kind, thank you.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (02:52):
I've been on your board at your
invitation since 2011.
And I'm coming down to this ismy swan song year.
Brian Vogt (02:58):
Oh, I hate that part .
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (02:59):
This is my second emeritus term.
And I had a three year stintduring one of the most exciting
growth times over your journeythere as your board chair, which
really gave me an opportunityto watch you at work and see the
magic and the wonder of theplace.
I suspect we'll talk a littlebit about that, but what's it
been like?
I'm just going to start there,because you came in 2007.
(03:22):
What's that journey been likefor you?
Brian Vogt (03:24):
You know it's been a really quiet 16 years.
Everything has happened at thegardens of the world, but it has
been a dream come true.
Creating, building, getting toknow people, finding meaning,
developing big ideas and thenseeing them actually come to
fruition.
It's a dream.
And it's really about thepeople.
(03:45):
The plants are obviously thecritical players in it, but the
purpose is really about people.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (03:52):
And so you get to, in this dream, I
imagine do a lot of things interms of making sure that you're
thinking about who you hire,how you hire, how you support
the folks there so that theylive purpose.
Brian Vogt (04:07):
Absolutely, We go through.
You know our mission and visionand values and all that.
And it really is about makingculture intentional.
So just yesterday I met withall the new employees coming in.
Every month I meet withwhoever's new.
Sometimes it's two people,sometimes, like yesterday was
about a dozen.
And we had a really deepconversation about culture and
(04:30):
how it's affected and how wecould build it and create
something that everybody canthrive with, you know.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (04:36):
What are some of the things you say?
Brian Vogt (04:38):
Well, I first asked them if they know what culture
is, because I think a lot ofpeople don't really contemplate
it much.
They live it, but they don'tcontemplate it.
And they gave really goodanswers.
They said things like it's howyou really behave, it's how the
kind of quiet agreements peoplemake about how they work
together, and I gave them theexample of when we're children.
(05:00):
So during the summer months,when I was home more from school
, I was just sent outside in themorning after breakfast, and
then you find a place to havelunch and then you come home for
dinner.
Then you go out until it's dark.
S o I just spent my wholechildhood outdoors.
And you kind of pick up quicklythat there are some houses
where you really want to go forlunch because they're really
(05:22):
friendly and they have good food, or it's funny or there's
something interesting, you know.
And some houses where you justdon't want to go.
Even the kids that are fromthat house don't want to go to
that house, and that's culture.
A culture within a family thatinvites people in, makes them
feel welcome, or a culture thathas a lot of stress and pain.
(05:42):
And you can feel it.
When you walk into a store andthey don't care that you're
there and somebody's talking onthe phone and you can't get
their attention.
That's culture.
When you walk into a store andthey're helpful but not cloying,
they just say I'm here if youneed me and welcome.
You know that kind of thing.
That's culture.
(06:03):
So a lot of culture isunintentional.
It just builds up by combinedexperience right, And when you
work to make the cultureintentional, it can change the
world.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (06:15):
Do you ever think about what, through
the lens of your leadership andthe things you've had the
opportunity to do, whether itwas at OEDIT, the Office of
Economic Development andInternational Trade, or the
gardens or the South MetroDenver Chamber, or the work
you're doing nationally andinternationally now in terms of
(06:36):
public gardens and conservationand other efforts that you're
involved in.
As you take that look back overa life through the lens of your
leadership, what do you thinkhas been your purpose or what is
your purpose?
Brian Vogt (06:49):
Mission-driven work has always been what's drawn me.
The experiences I've had in mylife that have meant the most to
me are the ones where theneedle was moved most
dramatically.
So when I think about societytoday, I think about how can we
create opportunities for peoplewhether it's at Craig Hospital
(07:09):
or it's at Denver BotanicGardens or it's in our
neighborhoods and how can wecreate opportunities where
people are empowered to do goodwork and to really make a
difference and to move thatneedle as far as they can.
And that's what I see on adaily basis at the gardens.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (07:24):
You know you are a builder.
How do you stay out of the waywhen people have big dreams, or
what role do you play do youthink, as a leader?
Brian Vogt (07:33):
Well, it kind of goes back to what we started
talking about the influence ofpeople that believe in you.
I feel the joy in giving thatsupport to other people that
builds their confidence.
So when Jennifer Riley-Chetwincomes to me and says I want to
co-direct a new project withMetropolitan State University of
(07:55):
Denver, Metropolitan StateUniversity of Denver called Oh
Wow, One World, One Water.
And my response is well, tellme more, what's that about?
And she did.
And it's this integratedinternational water education
program.
And I said do it, do it, you'regoing to be great at that.
(08:15):
You know all these amazingthings that the gardens is
engaged in right now globally.
We have our director ofhorticulture in the Center for
Global Initiatives is in Taiwanright now.
We had a team that just gotback from Senegal doing a
project there.
Jennifer is connected now to awater scarcity in agriculture
(08:36):
through the United Nations.
And she's gone to meetings inRome, I guess, for five years
every year.
I'm kind of jealous, but youknow, and it really goes across
the board.
We have this program where weprovide staff experience
scholarships and they have toapply.
It has to fit into our corevalues and it has to bring
(09:00):
meaning to the gardens and tothem.
But it doesn't necessarily haveto do exactly what their job is
.
It could be something thatgives them a whole new
perspective or an experience orconnections, something that
realizes some of their passion.
We're about to give anothercouple dozen of those
scholarships in the amount of, Ithink, $62,000.
And these are people at everylevel of the organization And so
(09:25):
they go off.
Some are international.
There's one that's a reallycool kind of an experience,
training up in YellowstoneNational Park.
How cool would that be?
That's what generates thatconfidence in them.
When you're a leader andeverybody around you is raising
(09:46):
the bar constantly and strivingand doing cool things and
connecting and communicating andimpacting, you get the best job
in the world because you'retheir support, but you're also
their audience and you celebratewhat they accomplish.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (10:05):
You know , it's a wonderful reflection to
think that, and I think thisfrom time to time.
It's like what do I do everyday?
What really is?
You know I can't get a 30-yearcareer in any of the things that
most people do here, and yet Ihave the privilege of doing what
(10:28):
I get to do every day, and Ithink you just encapsulated it
in so many wonderful ways.
Our jobs are to encourage, toinspire, to support, to the
extent that someone didn't comein and say let's burn the house
down because that would be fun.
That is, they're coming in withideas that support the mission
and purpose and give them theopportunity.
Because I bet Jennifer if, whenshe first got involved with Oh
(10:50):
Wow, never imagined that itwould lead not too, but along a
path to who knows what's next,to connections at the United
Nations on this really importantissue of water in our world.
And our job is just to kind of,you know, just give fuel to
these great ideas.
Brian Vogt (11:08):
Yeah, I lead with yes.
I lead with yes.
I try in most everycircumstance to say yes to
people's dream and vision andgoal.
That just means they don't cometo me with why they can't do
things.
They come to me with what theywant to do next.
Some things work, some thingsdon't, but most everything does
(11:30):
work.
That's because you've got ahuman being behind it that is
determined to make it happen.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (11:36):
How does that support the notion of
excellence?
I'd love it if you'd even talkabout what excellence means to
you.
Brian Vogt (11:43):
If your cup is full, you're not thirsty, you're not
seeking for yourself.
So, at a certain point, themore people around you have cups
that are full, the more theywant to spread it even more and
more and more.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (12:01):
Cool.
Brian Vogt (12:02):
Instead of taking, taking, taking.
I'll give you an example.
This blew me away and I gotreally emotional about it.
We get shut down in March of2020 and it happened boom fast
for everybody, but we had toclose down the gardens and we
were heading into our springseason.
So, first of all, everybody gohome.
(12:25):
We're going to maintain thefacilities, we're going to
maintain the plants, but we'regoing to do it in shifts and
we're all going to stand reallyfar apart and all that.
But don't worry about anything,we're going to cover you.
So in the ensuing two and a halfmonths that we were shut down,
we pledged and you remember thiswe pledged that no one was
(12:48):
going to get laid off, weweren't going to cut salaries
and we weren't going to cutbenefits, and I didn't know how
we were going to do it.
But I thought if we showfidelity to our team, they'll
rise to the challenge and we'llfigure it out.
So we were doing this virtualplant sale, where it was crazy
(13:09):
hard.
We're behind the scenes,separated, putting together
people's orders that they didonline and then putting them in
bags and then putting them inalphabetical order, and being in
the parking lot and cars wouldpull up and we would just have
them open up their trunks andwe'd put the bag of plants in
their car.
Amazing, incredible, huge work,but it kept the plant sale alive
(13:29):
and it gave people something todo.
We added about six weeks ofpaid leave to everybody because
they needed to take care ofstuff.
They had family issues, theyhad medical issues, all kinds of
things were happening.
And when we came back we werethe first cultural institution
in the state to reopen.
And when we opened again, theemotional response of people
(13:53):
being able to visit the gardensand we kept everybody apart, we
did everything was different,but still people could
experience the gardens, thethought of the staff, at that
point their cups were full.
They weren't thinking what Ineed more, I need more.
They said what can we do?
What can we do?
So, following George Floyd'smurder and the unbelievable
(14:17):
stress of that summer, wecreated a thing called Evenings
of Healing and the staff builtit.
They said you know, there's alot of musical acts in town that
don't have any gigs becausethere's no venue, so we're going
to hire them.
And then we're going to go outto our community partners that
worked with traumatizedcommunities and first responders
(14:38):
and we're going to say pick anight, this night's for you.
Just come enjoy no charge, justcome, find some peace, listen
to some music, bring a picnicand find some place of normalcy.
And I just was blown away byhow beautiful that experience
(15:02):
was and that these people werelooking out instead of in.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (15:08):
Wow, there's the teams who will bring
discretionary effort into workwhen the environment invites
that and when the environmentencourages and in some ways
expects that.
But you know, discretionaryeffort, you can't expect it.
You've got to work at it as aleader that make the place good
(15:29):
enough, make the place welcomingand enriching and enlivening
enough that people want to bringthe entirety of themselves into
work in service to a missionand live that purpose.
We have to build that.
But you also have theopportunity.
I mean, I'd say one of thethings that, pardon the pun,
grows as a result of that is youget raving fans who will tell
(15:53):
your story with you not havingto tell it yourself.
I'd ask at your place, I'd askyou to talk about your
experience of working with thepublic, because it's not all
pretty, we know that there canbe some challenging folks.
Brian Vogt (16:08):
T he public is a little bit of everything, right?
And I think empathy, respect,listening, connecting, joy,
sharing joy, making sure peoplefeel comfortable, it's part of
our diversity work that's socritical is that we we are
(16:29):
really getting to knowcommunities in a deep way and
figuring out where we can makeconnections that are reciprocal
and beneficial to everyone.
And when you do that, it justenlivens everything, you know,
it's just everything improves.
It's giving people outlets andrespect and space when they need
(16:53):
it, connection when they needit, really trying to understand,
and so everything we've beentalking about is my dream of
what our whole society could be.
We could actually be thinkingabout making sure everybody's
cup is full and they're doingtheir best to make smart
(17:14):
decisions and do great things,and even when there's
disagreement, you can still findways to connect.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (17:21):
Yeah, I love that you you'd said that
the walking about the gardensand having the chance to talk to
team members and visitors isvery much akin to here and as a
leader, that's, I tell peoplecoming upstairs and being on the
floors, it's like chocolate tome.
It's like the best thing everand it keeps me in the game.
(17:43):
It keeps me wanting to comeback and work harder.
Brian Vogt (17:46):
This is going to be a little off kilter for a second
, but I have to go back to mymajor, which was classical
antiquity.
Right?
And in studying Egyptology, theybelieve that when you pass, you
are taken before the gods andAnubis is there and they have a
scale.
There's a lot of mythology thathas to do with scales.
(18:07):
And you put your the heart onone side of the scale and a
feather on the other, and youmake sure they're a balance
because you want a light heart.
And I think about thatbalancing act all the time and I
remember after leaving onecareer, when I left the chamber
after 18 years, I rememberthinking I've blown it because
(18:32):
my goal was to do work that onnet gave more than it got.
And I just felt so filled withwarmth and connection and
support that I thought I can'tpossibly give enough to ever
balance that scale out.
(18:52):
You know?
And I agree with you, when I'mat the gardens, when I walk
around and I talk to people andthey ask questions and I try not
to wear my name tag so they cansee my role, sometimes they
figure it out, sometimes theyknow, but just having that human
connection is so, it's sopowerful.
(19:12):
And I go back and I'm doublymotivated then to figure out
ways to do more to support otherpeople.
You know, because you got tokeep that scale in balance.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (19:24):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Yeah, you know it's funny thatit makes that's beautiful, this
light heart.
I said during COVID and gettingus through it that it was heart
work, hard work and heart work.
Brian Vogt (19:37):
Yeah.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (19:37):
It was a lot of hard work.
Brian Vogt (19:40):
And hard work is the most fulfilling work.
You know, the easy things leaveus like yeah okay, yeah.
There's a tradition now, afolklore, I think, at the
gardens that has sprung up overthe years that when new people
come on staff and they're insome kind of leadership role,
their colleagues take them aside.
I've learned this just recently.
(20:01):
and they say one thing you needto know, be careful about
taking ideas to Brian, becausehe's going to say yes.
And then you're going to haveto do it.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (20:13):
That's so cool.
Brian Vogt (20:14):
I interviewed a person for a role a couple of
years ago and he was askingabout how the place operates and
I said, we think big, we dreambig, we raise the bar and I'm
going to do everything I can toclear every obstacle out of your
way and give you the sport youneed.
And people react reallypowerfully to that because
(20:36):
they're not used to it.
We live in a society where wethink what's important that
drives all of our decisions areparamount.
It's all about the numbers,it's about discipline and
everybody has to fit a mold andall these things.
And that's not what humanity isabout, And we've learned that
(20:58):
even more deeply in the lastcouple of years.
So the more you give people achance to be their own star,
shine their own light, thebetter.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (21:10):
Talk about what's happened around
membership and around growth andaround the financial health of
the organization.
Your employee satisfaction.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Brian Vogt (21:24):
You still have to get the business done.
You can't be a failinginstitution as you're ascending
your impact.
And there are people that wantto judge an institution by the
numbers.
There truly are, and a lot ofthem board members have
fiduciary responsibilities, sothey're going to be eyeing that.
So in order to have the freedomto have a culture like we have,
(21:50):
we had to be successful, andthat started with giving people
an idea that things couldactually happen.
Confidence in the institutionwas lacking when I started.
There was a lot of scarcitymentality and now there's an
abundance mentality.
So people are pushing theenvelope.
(22:10):
And that's people that areusing funds and people that are
bringing funds in.
It's people on the inside, it'smembers on the outside and
donors on the outside.
It's our incredible financialteam, which is so good and so
thoughtful.
So I think budget was about $8.
(22:30):
5 million when I started.
It's $33 million this year.
Our visitation was about400,000.
Last year it was 1.
36 million.
The number of members wasprobably 14,000.
It's 52,000 households now.
And I remember, I look back onit I know what was I thinking at
a board meeting you were at.
Somebody asked me what did Ithink the kind of the upper
(22:56):
echelon of our membership basecould possibly be.
And I said I think we'dprobably peak around 35,000.
And we've been steadily over50,000 for the last two years,
and so all of that gives us asuccess story that becomes a
support system for all of thisdream-making that happens.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (23:17):
Yeah, I think that it also wouldn't be,
you know, sort of a telling of afull story of how you build
great cultures if we didn't talkabout the fact that not
everybody wants to get on board.
Brian Vogt (23:29):
No.
No.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (23:31):
And not everybody can necessarily see
the vision, or people, there arepeople who are either skeptical
or just sort of live in theplace of we call ministry of no
or no way, or I won't, or you'retrying to change, you know
those sorts of things, andpeople see evil's too strong a
word but they see malfeasance orthey see negativity and trying
(23:54):
to change from who we are.
So any thoughts about that, interms of when you think about
the from toos that you just laidout from us, there must have
been people who'd be grudgingly,went along or didn't.
How do you manage that?
Brian Vogt (24:08):
Yeah, the thing about culture is that's so
powerful is that if you have areally positive culture, the
people that are kind of thedestroyers, like you're you're
describing, don't like itbecause they can't run amok and
their joy or their energy comesfrom stirring the pot.
You know, if you have a badculture, it chases off people
(24:29):
that want to be in a healthyculture.
So it's a constant battle Andthe thing I know absolutely is
you have to look at everybodywith compassion.
The people that feel likethey're just always negative and
they're, you know, they're justa drag to everybody around them
and they suck up all the energyin the room and all that.
You have to look at that humanbeing as a human being and think
(24:53):
to yourself, I don't know theirjourney.
I don't know their life, I don'tknow what they're experiencing.
I learned a long time ago thatit's always about something else
.
When people come to you andthey have an intense kind of
they're ready to really let youhave it and they're telling you
what the problem is and they'revery upset, I pause for a second
(25:14):
.
I think what is this reallyabout?
Because it's hardly ever thething that they are discussing
with you.
It's something else, right?
Yeah, and you've learned thattoo.
And so you have to react inthat pivot point where you're
showing respect and empathy andcompassion, but you're actually
trying to discern what the realissue is and sometimes you can't
(25:36):
help them get to a solution.
You can never really solve itfor them.
You can help them solve itthemselves.
At that point there could be aseparation and it happens, and
I've seen it with people thathave been highly functional for
a long time and then they juststart to fall apart.
And again, I don't know theirjourney.
(25:58):
I don't know what's happeningon the weekend and the evenings.
I don't know what's happeningin their families or what
traumas they've been through orsomething that changed, or that
maybe they got health news or Idon't know any of that.
So I can't react like you're badand you don't fit anymore.
I have to look and say I knowthat your journey is going to go
somewhere else and that's okay.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (26:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful.
These roles of service and Imean that, I say serve, I try
hard not to use the lead word.
I'm just one of the gang.
If you didn't come in withhumility, these jobs will humble
you fast.
And even if you did come inwith humility, because you're
just sort of positioned that wayand I know that about you,
(26:40):
these jobs will humble you fastbecause we don't do everything
perfectly.
But that idea of I would sayabout Craig that I knew I was
working off of a strongfoundation.
Brian Vogt (26:52):
Like you say, stasis is not an option, and so the
gardens has been beloved fromthe very beginning.
It has been the recipient ofgenius work from the very
beginning, the architecture, thedesigns the plantings,
extraordinary.
I didn't inherit something thatneeded a complete overhaul.
(27:14):
It just needed a lot of repairwork and then some new twists
and then added elements.
But I'll tell you, the nextthing to think about is how am I
going to pass it along?
And I was asked one time what Iwanted my legacy to be at the
gardens, and I answered reallyquickly and I thought I think
(27:36):
that's exactly how I feel.
I would like, when I leave thegardens for it to be barely
noticeable that I left.
That would be an amazing legacy.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (27:45):
That's when you know you've planted,
pardon of the pun again, you'veplanted some serious trees, some
serious seeds, laid down somegreat roots.
Brian Vogt (27:53):
It's thriving.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (27:56):
This place would be fine whether
we're here or not, and we canlook back and say well done and
that we're proud of what we wereable to accomplish or move
along or help.
Brian Vogt (28:05):
And thank you for whatever forces brought me to
that place at that time, youknow, I just feel so much
gratitude.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (28:13):
I live that every single day here at
Craig.
I do say I get to go to Craig.
I work alongside fabulous,wonderful people and I think
that notion of the charismaticleader I've thought about for
years because I watched greatplaces become not so great when
those amazing leaders moved on,and it is one of the harder and
(28:37):
yet most important obligationswe have is to make sure that
part of our legacy is that itwasn't all tied up in us, that
there are people here.
Brian, I, you know I love you.
I have to say that to the wholeworld, and you keep doing what
you're doing because the gardenis as we know you didn't say
that from to it's one of thepremier gardens in the world.
(29:00):
And that's not a board memberbragging, that's fact.
So thank you for spending timewith us.
Brian Vogt (29:05):
It's been a joy.
Thank you, thank you.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (29:11):
So building excellent cultures, or
continuing to enable excellentcultures to be even more
excellent, or good places toeven be greater than they
already are, embodies a reallyinteresting recipe that I think
we had the opportunity toexplore in this last hour.
(29:32):
It starts with a dream, and thedream, as a leader, is actually
part of who you are.
It's the fabric of that personwho strives to be part of doing
great work and doing somethingbetter, who knows that there's
another great story in there tobe told, another great chapter
of their own lives to be led andto be written.
(29:55):
And it involves hard work.
Clearly, it involves theability to humble yourself in
the presence of those who, inthat organization or that space,
came before you.
It requires a huge amount oflearning.
We heard that for sure thatability to ask lots of questions
(30:16):
and to listen hard.
It involves the notion thatstasis is a premorbid condition,
so that change is inevitableand there's careful and
wonderful and important waysthat we do it.
It involves hard conversationsin terms of those who may be
reticent to move along, but italso, at the same time, involves
(30:38):
the patience and the importanceof us understanding what's
behind the reticence, becausethere's some potential great
learnings in that that couldkeep us from stumbling as
leaders.
And out of all of that, thealchemy that we have the
opportunity to create and towatch just happen and I should
(30:59):
say, create together, is thestuff that grows great cultures,
grows excellent cultures,creates the kind of impact that
Brian rattled off beautifully,and at the heart of all of that
is just really good leadership,and I mean it.
I was envious getting to seewhat he got to do.
So once again, thank you forjoining us at Unstoppable at
(31:23):
Craig, and I hope you'll pick usup on wherever it is that you
listen to podcasts.
Thanks so much and see you nexttime.
Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig, where
we pull back the curtain on whatmakes healthy workplace
cultures click and what happenswhen people are empowered to
expand the boundaries of what ispossible.
We'll explore the perspectivesof employees and leaders who
have carte blanche to speaktheir truths, tell their stories
and unlock uncommon ways ofapproaching challenges.
(00:27):
I'm Dr.
Jand el Allen- Davis, CEO andPresident of Craig Hospital, a
world-renowned rehabilitationhospital that exclusively
specializes in theneuro-rehabilitation and
research of patients with spinalcord and brain injury.
Join me as we learn from peoplewho love what they do and what
happens when fear doesn't stifleinnovation.
(00:47):
There are these people andorganizations that, if we are
blessed and privileged, we havethe opportunity to stumble upon
or be invited to join and beengaged with.
(01:08):
And it's in those moments whereyou again, if you're blessed
and privileged and lucky, towatch incredible magic happen.
In fact, given who we're goingto be speaking with today, to
watch amazing things grow andflourish.
And that has been my wonderful,wonderful journey coming to
(01:30):
know Denver Botanic Gardens.
I used to tell our guest BrianVogt, who is the CEO and
President of the Denver BotanicGardens, when we'd walk about
the gardens during the timewhere I was the board chair of
the place that you get to workin a postcard.
And it's not just a postcardbecause of the incredible beauty
(01:53):
of those spaces and places thatyou've got responsibility and
accountability for.
You work in a postcard becauseof what I got to see around
people who work in a place thatthey truly love.
They all understand how whatthey do leads to, encourages,
invites the kind of flourishingand growth that we get to see,
(02:16):
and the beauty that we, asattendees and members, get to
see, and so we're going to spendsome time together talking
about how you build greatcultures, cultures of excellence
.
And so it's my absolute honor,privilege and pleasure to invite
you to Craig and ourUnstoppable at Craig podcast to
talk about our relationship, ourfriendship and the gardens and
(02:39):
just our journeys in leadershipand why it's so, so important to
think about what great culturesdo in terms of impacting
excellence.
So welcome, Brian.
Brian Vogt (02:50):
Oh, you're so kind, thank you.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (02:52):
I've been on your board at your
invitation since 2011.
And I'm coming down to this ismy swan song year.
Brian Vogt (02:58):
Oh, I hate that part .
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (02:59):
This is my second emeritus term.
And I had a three year stintduring one of the most exciting
growth times over your journeythere as your board chair, which
really gave me an opportunityto watch you at work and see the
magic and the wonder of theplace.
I suspect we'll talk a littlebit about that, but what's it
been like?
I'm just going to start there,because you came in 2007.
(03:22):
What's that journey been likefor you?
Brian Vogt (03:24):
You know it's been a really quiet 16 years.
Everything has happened at thegardens of the world, but it has
been a dream come true.
Creating, building, getting toknow people, finding meaning,
developing big ideas and thenseeing them actually come to
fruition.
It's a dream.
And it's really about thepeople.
(03:45):
The plants are obviously thecritical players in it, but the
purpose is really about people.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (03:52):
And so you get to, in this dream, I
imagine do a lot of things interms of making sure that you're
thinking about who you hire,how you hire, how you support
the folks there so that theylive purpose.
Brian Vogt (04:07):
Absolutely, We go through.
You know our mission and visionand values and all that.
And it really is about makingculture intentional.
So just yesterday I met withall the new employees coming in.
Every month I meet withwhoever's new.
Sometimes it's two people,sometimes, like yesterday was
about a dozen.
And we had a really deepconversation about culture and
(04:30):
how it's affected and how wecould build it and create
something that everybody canthrive with, you know.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (04:36):
What are some of the things you say?
Brian Vogt (04:38):
Well, I first asked them if they know what culture
is, because I think a lot ofpeople don't really contemplate
it much.
They live it, but they don'tcontemplate it.
And they gave really goodanswers.
They said things like it's howyou really behave, it's how the
kind of quiet agreements peoplemake about how they work
together, and I gave them theexample of when we're children.
(05:00):
So during the summer months,when I was home more from school
, I was just sent outside in themorning after breakfast, and
then you find a place to havelunch and then you come home for
dinner.
Then you go out until it's dark.
S o I just spent my wholechildhood outdoors.
And you kind of pick up quicklythat there are some houses
where you really want to go forlunch because they're really
(05:22):
friendly and they have good food, or it's funny or there's
something interesting, you know.
And some houses where you justdon't want to go.
Even the kids that are fromthat house don't want to go to
that house, and that's culture.
A culture within a family thatinvites people in, makes them
feel welcome, or a culture thathas a lot of stress and pain.
(05:42):
And you can feel it.
When you walk into a store andthey don't care that you're
there and somebody's talking onthe phone and you can't get
their attention.
That's culture.
When you walk into a store andthey're helpful but not cloying,
they just say I'm here if youneed me and welcome.
You know that kind of thing.
That's culture.
(06:03):
So a lot of culture isunintentional.
It just builds up by combinedexperience right, And when you
work to make the cultureintentional, it can change the
world.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (06:15):
Do you ever think about what, through
the lens of your leadership andthe things you've had the
opportunity to do, whether itwas at OEDIT, the Office of
Economic Development andInternational Trade, or the
gardens or the South MetroDenver Chamber, or the work
you're doing nationally andinternationally now in terms of
(06:36):
public gardens and conservationand other efforts that you're
involved in.
As you take that look back overa life through the lens of your
leadership, what do you thinkhas been your purpose or what is
your purpose?
Brian Vogt (06:49):
Mission-driven work has always been what's drawn me.
The experiences I've had in mylife that have meant the most to
me are the ones where theneedle was moved most
dramatically.
So when I think about societytoday, I think about how can we
create opportunities for peoplewhether it's at Craig Hospital
(07:09):
or it's at Denver BotanicGardens or it's in our
neighborhoods and how can wecreate opportunities where
people are empowered to do goodwork and to really make a
difference and to move thatneedle as far as they can.
And that's what I see on adaily basis at the gardens.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (07:24):
You know you are a builder.
How do you stay out of the waywhen people have big dreams, or
what role do you play do youthink, as a leader?
Brian Vogt (07:33):
Well, it kind of goes back to what we started
talking about the influence ofpeople that believe in you.
I feel the joy in giving thatsupport to other people that
builds their confidence.
So when Jennifer Riley-Chetwincomes to me and says I want to
co-direct a new project withMetropolitan State University of
(07:55):
Denver, Metropolitan StateUniversity of Denver called Oh
Wow, One World, One Water.
And my response is well, tellme more, what's that about?
And she did.
And it's this integratedinternational water education
program.
And I said do it, do it, you'regoing to be great at that.
(08:15):
You know all these amazingthings that the gardens is
engaged in right now globally.
We have our director ofhorticulture in the Center for
Global Initiatives is in Taiwanright now.
We had a team that just gotback from Senegal doing a
project there.
Jennifer is connected now to awater scarcity in agriculture
(08:36):
through the United Nations.
And she's gone to meetings inRome, I guess, for five years
every year.
I'm kind of jealous, but youknow, and it really goes across
the board.
We have this program where weprovide staff experience
scholarships and they have toapply.
It has to fit into our corevalues and it has to bring
(09:00):
meaning to the gardens and tothem.
But it doesn't necessarily haveto do exactly what their job is
.
It could be something thatgives them a whole new
perspective or an experience orconnections, something that
realizes some of their passion.
We're about to give anothercouple dozen of those
scholarships in the amount of, Ithink, $62,000.
And these are people at everylevel of the organization And so
(09:25):
they go off.
Some are international.
There's one that's a reallycool kind of an experience,
training up in YellowstoneNational Park.
How cool would that be?
That's what generates thatconfidence in them.
When you're a leader andeverybody around you is raising
(09:46):
the bar constantly and strivingand doing cool things and
connecting and communicating andimpacting, you get the best job
in the world because you'retheir support, but you're also
their audience and you celebratewhat they accomplish.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (10:05):
You know , it's a wonderful reflection to
think that, and I think thisfrom time to time.
It's like what do I do everyday?
What really is?
You know I can't get a 30-yearcareer in any of the things that
most people do here, and yet Ihave the privilege of doing what
(10:28):
I get to do every day, and Ithink you just encapsulated it
in so many wonderful ways.
Our jobs are to encourage, toinspire, to support, to the
extent that someone didn't comein and say let's burn the house
down because that would be fun.
That is, they're coming in withideas that support the mission
and purpose and give them theopportunity.
Because I bet Jennifer if, whenshe first got involved with Oh
(10:50):
Wow, never imagined that itwould lead not too, but along a
path to who knows what's next,to connections at the United
Nations on this really importantissue of water in our world.
And our job is just to kind of,you know, just give fuel to
these great ideas.
Brian Vogt (11:08):
Yeah, I lead with yes.
I lead with yes.
I try in most everycircumstance to say yes to
people's dream and vision andgoal.
That just means they don't cometo me with why they can't do
things.
They come to me with what theywant to do next.
Some things work, some thingsdon't, but most everything does
(11:30):
work.
That's because you've got ahuman being behind it that is
determined to make it happen.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (11:36):
How does that support the notion of
excellence?
I'd love it if you'd even talkabout what excellence means to
you.
Brian Vogt (11:43):
If your cup is full, you're not thirsty, you're not
seeking for yourself.
So, at a certain point, themore people around you have cups
that are full, the more theywant to spread it even more and
more and more.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (12:01):
Cool.
Brian Vogt (12:02):
Instead of taking, taking, taking.
I'll give you an example.
This blew me away and I gotreally emotional about it.
We get shut down in March of2020 and it happened boom fast
for everybody, but we had toclose down the gardens and we
were heading into our springseason.
So, first of all, everybody gohome.
(12:25):
We're going to maintain thefacilities, we're going to
maintain the plants, but we'regoing to do it in shifts and
we're all going to stand reallyfar apart and all that.
But don't worry about anything,we're going to cover you.
So in the ensuing two and a halfmonths that we were shut down,
we pledged and you remember thiswe pledged that no one was
(12:48):
going to get laid off, weweren't going to cut salaries
and we weren't going to cutbenefits, and I didn't know how
we were going to do it.
But I thought if we showfidelity to our team, they'll
rise to the challenge and we'llfigure it out.
So we were doing this virtualplant sale, where it was crazy
(13:09):
hard.
We're behind the scenes,separated, putting together
people's orders that they didonline and then putting them in
bags and then putting them inalphabetical order, and being in
the parking lot and cars wouldpull up and we would just have
them open up their trunks andwe'd put the bag of plants in
their car.
Amazing, incredible, huge work,but it kept the plant sale alive
(13:29):
and it gave people something todo.
We added about six weeks ofpaid leave to everybody because
they needed to take care ofstuff.
They had family issues, theyhad medical issues, all kinds of
things were happening.
And when we came back we werethe first cultural institution
in the state to reopen.
And when we opened again, theemotional response of people
(13:53):
being able to visit the gardensand we kept everybody apart, we
did everything was different,but still people could
experience the gardens, thethought of the staff, at that
point their cups were full.
They weren't thinking what Ineed more, I need more.
They said what can we do?
What can we do?
So, following George Floyd'smurder and the unbelievable
(14:17):
stress of that summer, wecreated a thing called Evenings
of Healing and the staff builtit.
They said you know, there's alot of musical acts in town that
don't have any gigs becausethere's no venue, so we're going
to hire them.
And then we're going to go outto our community partners that
worked with traumatizedcommunities and first responders
(14:38):
and we're going to say pick anight, this night's for you.
Just come enjoy no charge, justcome, find some peace, listen
to some music, bring a picnicand find some place of normalcy.
And I just was blown away byhow beautiful that experience
(15:02):
was and that these people werelooking out instead of in.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (15:08):
Wow, there's the teams who will bring
discretionary effort into workwhen the environment invites
that and when the environmentencourages and in some ways
expects that.
But you know, discretionaryeffort, you can't expect it.
You've got to work at it as aleader that make the place good
(15:29):
enough, make the place welcomingand enriching and enlivening
enough that people want to bringthe entirety of themselves into
work in service to a missionand live that purpose.
We have to build that.
But you also have theopportunity.
I mean, I'd say one of thethings that, pardon the pun,
grows as a result of that is youget raving fans who will tell
(15:53):
your story with you not havingto tell it yourself.
I'd ask at your place, I'd askyou to talk about your
experience of working with thepublic, because it's not all
pretty, we know that there canbe some challenging folks.
Brian Vogt (16:08):
T he public is a little bit of everything, right?
And I think empathy, respect,listening, connecting, joy,
sharing joy, making sure peoplefeel comfortable, it's part of
our diversity work that's socritical is that we we are
(16:29):
really getting to knowcommunities in a deep way and
figuring out where we can makeconnections that are reciprocal
and beneficial to everyone.
And when you do that, it justenlivens everything, you know,
it's just everything improves.
It's giving people outlets andrespect and space when they need
(16:53):
it, connection when they needit, really trying to understand,
and so everything we've beentalking about is my dream of
what our whole society could be.
We could actually be thinkingabout making sure everybody's
cup is full and they're doingtheir best to make smart
(17:14):
decisions and do great things,and even when there's
disagreement, you can still findways to connect.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (17:21):
Yeah, I love that you you'd said that
the walking about the gardensand having the chance to talk to
team members and visitors isvery much akin to here and as a
leader, that's, I tell peoplecoming upstairs and being on the
floors, it's like chocolate tome.
It's like the best thing everand it keeps me in the game.
(17:43):
It keeps me wanting to comeback and work harder.
Brian Vogt (17:46):
This is going to be a little off kilter for a second
, but I have to go back to mymajor, which was classical
antiquity.
Right?
And in studying Egyptology, theybelieve that when you pass, you
are taken before the gods andAnubis is there and they have a
scale.
There's a lot of mythology thathas to do with scales.
(18:07):
And you put your the heart onone side of the scale and a
feather on the other, and youmake sure they're a balance
because you want a light heart.
And I think about thatbalancing act all the time and I
remember after leaving onecareer, when I left the chamber
after 18 years, I rememberthinking I've blown it because
(18:32):
my goal was to do work that onnet gave more than it got.
And I just felt so filled withwarmth and connection and
support that I thought I can'tpossibly give enough to ever
balance that scale out.
(18:52):
You know?
And I agree with you, when I'mat the gardens, when I walk
around and I talk to people andthey ask questions and I try not
to wear my name tag so they cansee my role, sometimes they
figure it out, sometimes theyknow, but just having that human
connection is so, it's sopowerful.
(19:12):
And I go back and I'm doublymotivated then to figure out
ways to do more to support otherpeople.
You know, because you got tokeep that scale in balance.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (19:24):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Yeah, you know it's funny thatit makes that's beautiful, this
light heart.
I said during COVID and gettingus through it that it was heart
work, hard work and heart work.
Brian Vogt (19:37):
Yeah.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (19:37):
It was a lot of hard work.
Brian Vogt (19:40):
And hard work is the most fulfilling work.
You know, the easy things leaveus like yeah okay, yeah.
There's a tradition now, afolklore, I think, at the
gardens that has sprung up overthe years that when new people
come on staff and they're insome kind of leadership role,
their colleagues take them aside.
I've learned this just recently.
(20:01):
and they say one thing you needto know, be careful about
taking ideas to Brian, becausehe's going to say yes.
And then you're going to haveto do it.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (20:13):
That's so cool.
Brian Vogt (20:14):
I interviewed a person for a role a couple of
years ago and he was askingabout how the place operates and
I said, we think big, we dreambig, we raise the bar and I'm
going to do everything I can toclear every obstacle out of your
way and give you the sport youneed.
And people react reallypowerfully to that because
(20:36):
they're not used to it.
We live in a society where wethink what's important that
drives all of our decisions areparamount.
It's all about the numbers,it's about discipline and
everybody has to fit a mold andall these things.
And that's not what humanity isabout, And we've learned that
(20:58):
even more deeply in the lastcouple of years.
So the more you give people achance to be their own star,
shine their own light, thebetter.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (21:10):
Talk about what's happened around
membership and around growth andaround the financial health of
the organization.
Your employee satisfaction.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Brian Vogt (21:24):
You still have to get the business done.
You can't be a failinginstitution as you're ascending
your impact.
And there are people that wantto judge an institution by the
numbers.
There truly are, and a lot ofthem board members have
fiduciary responsibilities, sothey're going to be eyeing that.
So in order to have the freedomto have a culture like we have,
(21:50):
we had to be successful, andthat started with giving people
an idea that things couldactually happen.
Confidence in the institutionwas lacking when I started.
There was a lot of scarcitymentality and now there's an
abundance mentality.
So people are pushing theenvelope.
(22:10):
And that's people that areusing funds and people that are
bringing funds in.
It's people on the inside, it'smembers on the outside and
donors on the outside.
It's our incredible financialteam, which is so good and so
thoughtful.
So I think budget was about $8.
(22:30):
5 million when I started.
It's $33 million this year.
Our visitation was about400,000.
Last year it was 1.
36 million.
The number of members wasprobably 14,000.
It's 52,000 households now.
And I remember, I look back onit I know what was I thinking at
a board meeting you were at.
Somebody asked me what did Ithink the kind of the upper
(22:56):
echelon of our membership basecould possibly be.
And I said I think we'dprobably peak around 35,000.
And we've been steadily over50,000 for the last two years,
and so all of that gives us asuccess story that becomes a
support system for all of thisdream-making that happens.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (23:17):
Yeah, I think that it also wouldn't be,
you know, sort of a telling of afull story of how you build
great cultures if we didn't talkabout the fact that not
everybody wants to get on board.
Brian Vogt (23:29):
No.
No.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (23:31):
And not everybody can necessarily see
the vision, or people, there arepeople who are either skeptical
or just sort of live in theplace of we call ministry of no
or no way, or I won't, or you'retrying to change, you know
those sorts of things, andpeople see evil's too strong a
word but they see malfeasance orthey see negativity and trying
(23:54):
to change from who we are.
So any thoughts about that, interms of when you think about
the from toos that you just laidout from us, there must have
been people who'd be grudgingly,went along or didn't.
How do you manage that?
Brian Vogt (24:08):
Yeah, the thing about culture is that's so
powerful is that if you have areally positive culture, the
people that are kind of thedestroyers, like you're you're
describing, don't like itbecause they can't run amok and
their joy or their energy comesfrom stirring the pot.
You know, if you have a badculture, it chases off people
(24:29):
that want to be in a healthyculture.
So it's a constant battle Andthe thing I know absolutely is
you have to look at everybodywith compassion.
The people that feel likethey're just always negative and
they're, you know, they're justa drag to everybody around them
and they suck up all the energyin the room and all that.
You have to look at that humanbeing as a human being and think
(24:53):
to yourself, I don't know theirjourney.
I don't know their life, I don'tknow what they're experiencing.
I learned a long time ago thatit's always about something else
.
When people come to you andthey have an intense kind of
they're ready to really let youhave it and they're telling you
what the problem is and they'revery upset, I pause for a second
(25:14):
.
I think what is this reallyabout?
Because it's hardly ever thething that they are discussing
with you.
It's something else, right?
Yeah, and you've learned thattoo.
And so you have to react inthat pivot point where you're
showing respect and empathy andcompassion, but you're actually
trying to discern what the realissue is and sometimes you can't
(25:36):
help them get to a solution.
You can never really solve itfor them.
You can help them solve itthemselves.
At that point there could be aseparation and it happens, and
I've seen it with people thathave been highly functional for
a long time and then they juststart to fall apart.
And again, I don't know theirjourney.
(25:58):
I don't know what's happeningon the weekend and the evenings.
I don't know what's happeningin their families or what
traumas they've been through orsomething that changed, or that
maybe they got health news or Idon't know any of that.
So I can't react like you're badand you don't fit anymore.
I have to look and say I knowthat your journey is going to go
somewhere else and that's okay.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (26:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful.
These roles of service and Imean that, I say serve, I try
hard not to use the lead word.
I'm just one of the gang.
If you didn't come in withhumility, these jobs will humble
you fast.
And even if you did come inwith humility, because you're
just sort of positioned that wayand I know that about you,
(26:40):
these jobs will humble you fastbecause we don't do everything
perfectly.
But that idea of I would sayabout Craig that I knew I was
working off of a strongfoundation.
Brian Vogt (26:52):
Like you say, stasis is not an option, and so the
gardens has been beloved fromthe very beginning.
It has been the recipient ofgenius work from the very
beginning, the architecture, thedesigns the plantings,
extraordinary.
I didn't inherit something thatneeded a complete overhaul.
(27:14):
It just needed a lot of repairwork and then some new twists
and then added elements.
But I'll tell you, the nextthing to think about is how am I
going to pass it along?
And I was asked one time what Iwanted my legacy to be at the
gardens, and I answered reallyquickly and I thought I think
(27:36):
that's exactly how I feel.
I would like, when I leave thegardens for it to be barely
noticeable that I left.
That would be an amazing legacy.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (27:45):
That's when you know you've planted,
pardon of the pun again, you'veplanted some serious trees, some
serious seeds, laid down somegreat roots.
Brian Vogt (27:53):
It's thriving.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (27:56):
This place would be fine whether
we're here or not, and we canlook back and say well done and
that we're proud of what we wereable to accomplish or move
along or help.
Brian Vogt (28:05):
And thank you for whatever forces brought me to
that place at that time, youknow, I just feel so much
gratitude.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (28:13):
I live that every single day here at
Craig.
I do say I get to go to Craig.
I work alongside fabulous,wonderful people and I think
that notion of the charismaticleader I've thought about for
years because I watched greatplaces become not so great when
those amazing leaders moved on,and it is one of the harder and
(28:37):
yet most important obligationswe have is to make sure that
part of our legacy is that itwasn't all tied up in us, that
there are people here.
Brian, I, you know I love you.
I have to say that to the wholeworld, and you keep doing what
you're doing because the gardenis as we know you didn't say
that from to it's one of thepremier gardens in the world.
(29:00):
And that's not a board memberbragging, that's fact.
So thank you for spending timewith us.
Brian Vogt (29:05):
It's been a joy.
Thank you, thank you.
Jandel Allen-Davis, MD (29:11):
So building excellent cultures, or
continuing to enable excellentcultures to be even more
excellent, or good places toeven be greater than they
already are, embodies a reallyinteresting recipe that I think
we had the opportunity toexplore in this last hour.
(29:32):
It starts with a dream, and thedream, as a leader, is actually
part of who you are.
It's the fabric of that personwho strives to be part of doing
great work and doing somethingbetter, who knows that there's
another great story in there tobe told, another great chapter
of their own lives to be led andto be written.
(29:55):
And it involves hard work.
Clearly, it involves theability to humble yourself in
the presence of those who, inthat organization or that space,
came before you.
It requires a huge amount oflearning.
We heard that for sure thatability to ask lots of questions
(30:16):
and to listen hard.
It involves the notion thatstasis is a premorbid condition,
so that change is inevitableand there's careful and
wonderful and important waysthat we do it.
It involves hard conversationsin terms of those who may be
reticent to move along, but italso, at the same time, involves
(30:38):
the patience and the importanceof us understanding what's
behind the reticence, becausethere's some potential great
learnings in that that couldkeep us from stumbling as
leaders.
And out of all of that, thealchemy that we have the
opportunity to create and towatch just happen and I should
(30:59):
say, create together, is thestuff that grows great cultures,
grows excellent cultures,creates the kind of impact that
Brian rattled off beautifully,and at the heart of all of that
is just really good leadership,and I mean it.
I was envious getting to seewhat he got to do.
So once again, thank you forjoining us at Unstoppable at
(31:23):
Craig, and I hope you'll pick usup on wherever it is that you
listen to podcasts.
Thanks so much and see you nexttime.
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