July 3, 2025 • 33 mins
The primary focus of this podcast episode is the exploration of the profound implications of technological advancements on contemporary society. We delve into the multifaceted ways in which innovation shapes our daily lives, influencing communication, education, and economic structures. Through a rigorous examination of various case studies, we illuminate both the benefits and challenges posed by rapid technological progress. It is imperative to recognize that while these advancements present opportunities for growth, they also engender significant ethical dilemmas and societal shifts. Our discussion aims to foster a critical understanding of the interplay between technology and human experience, urging listeners to contemplate the future trajectory of our interconnected world.
The discourse presented within the podcast episode delves into the intricate dynamics of contemporary societal issues, emphasizing the multifaceted nature of human interaction in an increasingly interconnected world. We engage with various experts who offer their insights on pressing matters such as climate change, social justice, and technological advancement. Through a comprehensive exploration of these themes, we seek to illuminate the pivotal role that individual agency plays within broader systemic frameworks. The discussions are enriched by anecdotal evidence and empirical research, providing a robust foundation for understanding the complexities of our current social landscape. Each participant contributes a distinct perspective, fostering a nuanced dialogue that transcends simplistic narratives and encourages critical thinking among listeners. Ultimately, the episode serves as a clarion call for proactive engagement, urging individuals to reflect on their responsibilities as global citizens in the face of existential challenges.
Another significant aspect of our conversation revolves around the intersectionality of various social movements, highlighting how disparate causes often converge to form a unified front against oppression and inequality. We meticulously examine case studies that exemplify successful collaborations between organizations, illustrating how collective action can yield substantial progress. The narrative weaves through historical precedents and contemporary examples, underscoring the importance of solidarity across different demographic lines. As we navigate this terrain, we also address the obstacles that hinder collaboration, such as miscommunication and entrenched biases, proposing strategies to overcome these barriers. This segment of our discussion aims to empower listeners by providing them with actionable insights, fostering a sense of agency in their involvement with social causes.
The episode culminates in a reflective dialogue that encourages introspection about the listener's role within their community. We posit that understanding one's own positionality is crucial for effective participation in any movement. By inviting listeners to engage in self-reflection, we hope to instill a sense of accountability and urgency. This aspect of the discussion is particularly salient, as it compels individuals to examine their privileges and responsibilities, thus fostering a more inclusive approach to activism. Through this lens, we elucidate the transformative potential of grassroots movements and the critical importance of sustained engagement over time. The overarching message is clear: while the challenges we face are daunting, the collective power of informed and engaged citizens can precipitate meaningful change.
Takeaways:
- In this episode, we explored the intricate dynamics of human relationships and their profound implications.
- We discussed the significance of communication in fostering understanding and resolving conflicts effectively.
- The importance of empathy was emphasized as a crucial element in nurturing interpersonal connections.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Well, hello everybody andwelcome to another amazing episode
of the Unstoppable LeadershipSpotlight podcast where we hear from
amazing leaders and their gamechanging insights.
As you know, if we can havegreat leaders in the world, we can
change the world.
So I'd like to welcome to theshow Glenn Akramov and let me tell
you a little bit about him.
(00:23):
So Glenn is the founder andCEO of Akrabov llc.
His expertise isrehabilitating and revitalizing municipal
government workplaces and hasdeveloped a program that will improve
any organization by returninghumanity to the center of focus.
So key.
(00:44):
And he is the author of theHuman Centered Team.
So, so important informationand so welcome to the show.
Love talking about this great leadership.
Oh, oh.
So thank you.
I'm glad to be here.
So good to have you.
So Glenn, tell.
All right, so I got a lot ofquestions to ask, but I'm going to
start with a big one.
The human centered team in a nutshell.
(01:11):
Describe it.
Human centered teams about,about building teams and around the
human beings that are there.
I think one of the things wemake mistakes on is trying to build
it in some box.
And we in human being as humanbeings are not, can't be put in the
(01:32):
box.
The other part of it is about,particularly about the workplace
is we've spent the last 25 to30 years trying to get the emotion
out of a workplace.
Only, only we're human beingsand you can't take the emotion out
of us.
So it's about, it's aboutletting you know.
The secret to the whole thingis encouraging people to be who they
(01:55):
are.
And of course we have rulesaround everything but be who you
are.
You're allowed to beemotional, you're allowed to be happy,
you're allowed to be sad,you're allowed to be upset.
And then working through as aleader, noticing these things, reacting
(02:16):
to them and being curiousabout what the answer is and, and
what, why these emotions are coming.
You know, it's, it's soimportant in today's workplace.
And, and like there are somethings that are floating through
my brain about, you know, youknow, we, we talk a lot about emotional
intelligence and you know,and, but I also, the crux of this,
(02:41):
you know, is knowing.
Knowing your employees orknowing your team members.
I hate the word employees, butknowing your team members well enough
to recognize the good, the badand the ugly.
Absolutely.
I think it, it starts with,with I teach leaders.
(03:04):
You don't have to like yourpeople every day, but you have to
love them.
And it's okay to do that.
Actually, I think it'smandatory in my.
In my book.
That's.
That's kind of what I believe.
But in.
And if you do, then you.
You don't have a problempaying attention to them.
(03:25):
You don't have a problemgoing, wow, she's upset today.
Wow.
He seems really happy.
I want to find out what that'sabout so I can make sure that.
That we have something to dowith it.
I think the key to that, too,is, is understanding as a leader
that you don't just impactthat person or that team member or
(03:46):
the entire team.
You impact everyone they impact.
And that's a.
That.
That's a little heavysometimes, but it's also a great
responsibility.
Yeah, no, it's so true.
It's like the impact that wecan make on somebody is so crucial,
but we have to get to knowthem and know and be able to read.
Read people.
(04:06):
So.
So working.
So do you.
You work with both companiesand municipalities?
I do, yep.
So I'm kind of curious here.
So municipalities versus companies.
What.
Where do you see theleadership difference?
I don't.
(04:27):
There isn't a ton, really.
It's just about what you'refocused on.
So municipalities are focusedon service and not worried about
a profit margin.
Businesses are a lot of timesfocused on service, but they have
a profit margin.
The.
I think the difference comesfor a leader is in.
(04:48):
In how you manifest divisionand how you create that is really
where the difference is.
It's.
It's actually easier as aleader to create a inspiring vision
in a municipality becauseyou're impacting a specific community
every time you come.
(05:09):
Every.
Every action you take in this.
In.
In business, it's not alwaysthat clear.
So that's a challenge for abusiness leader that a municipal
leader doesn't face the diff.
The other thing is, is thatwhen you have a great employee in
the business, you get to takecare of them financially and, you
(05:32):
know, bonuses and trips andall kinds of things.
And that's not legal in government.
So.
So.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you have to be innovativein how you.
How you go about doing that.
And it goes back again tounderstanding who your people are.
Because sometimes, you know, alot of times you'll hear people say,
(05:55):
well, if you.
Your punishment for being agreat employee is.
Is.
Is getting more assignments.
Well, some.
Some people like that.
Right.
Some people want more action,some don't.
So it's.
It's understanding who they are.
But I think that's.
Those are really the nuancesbetween the two that I've found most
everything else stays fairly consistent.
(06:17):
But it's really key there toolike that, that how we, how we recognize
and give recognition andreward people is very, very.
It's obviously going to bedifferent between obviously a municipality
and a company.
But at the end of the day,what really matters is how, you know,
how are you.
(06:37):
Glenn, for example, how, howdo you like to be recognized and
take recognition?
Right.
So you might like, you know,the Benjamins or you actually might
prefer the plaque on the wall.
As long as it's a nice plaque,not one that just, you know, you
got a hobby lobby.
And I say that because I'mspeaking from experience on something
(07:01):
that I was gifted or anyway,so you know, when, so when you're
thinking that.
So you mentioned something.
You know, obviously mostcompanies are of service, but you
know, municipalities don'tnecessarily have a true profit.
They're not focused on theprofit margin.
They might hopefully befocused on saving ish maybe or what
(07:26):
they could do better orstretch the money out.
So you know, other than thefact that obviously one is, you know,
it's, it's profit is in thereand that they have the ability to
buy a gift or buy a trip.
How else do you, you know, isthere another difference that you
see on, on what profit can dounder leadership?
(07:49):
Yeah, I, I think there's a,there's a, a not so good side to
that and a re.
And a good side to that.
So let's start with thenegative side.
Okay.
A lot of times a company isformed for a purpose to serve you,
almost always to serve in some way.
And the, the founder orfounders, that's, that's why they
(08:12):
want to do it.
And yes, they're going to makemoney and that's important part of
it.
So they can do more.
But as you get bigger andbigger and bigger, you get farther
and farther away from thatpurpose and then money becomes the
driver keeping.
And I've learned this in myown business, right, is you, you
lose.
You're like, I got to pay thebills, I got to do this, that and
(08:33):
the other thing.
And you start focusing on themoney and not the purpose that it
can be.
Your purpose can be corruptedreally fast.
And then it becomes about themoney or about the process that we
use to serve and we get caughtup in the, in that and, and get away
from serving the positive.
The positive side is that, andI started to mention it, there is
(08:56):
that you can expand yourservice level and your impact level
much greater than a than amunicipality can.
Even on the state level, Imean even the federal level, they
don't have the daily, youknow, at the federal and state level,
they don't have the dailyimpact on, on people.
Despite what the news tells you.
(09:17):
They don't.
The, the, the locals do,right, to some extent.
So if you're, if you go toyour city, you know, you're going
to go to their park, they'reimpacting you, you're driving on
their streets day to day, youknow, all of those things impact
you directly, but that's their limits.
(09:39):
And when you get to the, whenyou get to a business, you can, you
know, and you look at all the,a lot of the big super successful
businesses, their impact,Amazon's a great example.
They impact everybody's lifeevery day now.
And they got to do thatbecause of, because they created
(09:59):
a way to do it and they keepexpanding and have a lot of financial
resources to continue.
Right.
And it's so, so, okay, sosomething that I think is really
important and listeners, Iwant you to really take hold of this
because I think it's, it'sreally key, you know, it's, it's,
you're knowing your purpose, right.
(10:21):
And trying to stay true to that.
So with that too, because it'sso important.
No, we, we do start companiesto serve others or there's some reason,
you know, we see a problemsomewhere and we're like, ooh, I
can fix it or I can, mywidget's gonna make something better,
right?
Solve a problem.
So what's your, what is your,your, you know, game changing way
(10:46):
for people to actually staytrue to that purpose and not let
money become the driver?
Like how do we keep thepurpose going?
And, and we know, because weall know, at least in my brain, we
all know that the more wefocus on the service and that part,
(11:12):
the money comes.
It does, it absolutely does.
And, and it, it, you canrestrict the flow by focusing on
the money rather than the, andI've experienced that personally.
So I think the, the key thingis, is that you're, you have a purpose
to be on the planet.
(11:33):
And, and you know, as you movethrough life, you start to evolve
and figure out what it is.
And, and part of that processis writing it down and creating goals
around it.
So that's kind of, you know,that's where you start.
In a business you have abusiness plan.
In a government you have astrategic plan and they're kind of
(11:55):
that purpose written down.
But as an individual, you, youhave to, and As a leader, you have
to instill the purpose of thecompany or the purpose of the organization
in the people.
So I, I talk to leaders aboutcreate an inspiring vision and give
(12:17):
it away.
And by that I mean you have tostop taking full possession of it.
Let other people own it,create it, morph it in to.
To things and then make ittheir own.
And when they do, then they,your employees and your, Your team
will guide you.
(12:38):
So that's happened to me inthe five years I've been in business
here twice where I started tofocus and worry about money because
cash flow and all that otherfun stuff you got to deal with and
real and my team, because theyunderstand the vision, the vision
has become theirs, not justmine, it's ours.
And they corrected me.
(12:59):
Now you have to be willing tolisten to them.
And I am, of course.
But that's, that's one, that'sone big way.
The other way is to understandthe year of all evolving as a human
being.
And you're growing and yourpurpose is going to look different
throughout your life and, andso will it for your company or your
(13:20):
organization.
So every once in a while, andI think as human beings we generally
go through this probably everyfive to eight years depending it's
time for a reset and, and it'snot tear everything down and throw
it out.
It.
It's just taking some time,some thoughtful time.
(13:42):
And we as leaders today don't,aren't good at that because everything's
moving so fast.
But taking some time thinkingabout what's really important, how
things have changed andevolved and where you really want
to continue to serve and whereyou don't.
And that both of those twothings can guide you to a new inspired
(14:04):
vision.
It can guide you to anotherproduct, another service, but it,
it gets you away from focusingon, on the money and the nuts and
bolts of the, of the companyand focusing on, on who you are and
why you started it in thefirst place.
You know, it's so importantand you know, there's a couple things
(14:25):
that, as you were talking andit's so, it's so true like you know,
being, you know, knowing yourmission and helping it evolve like,
and knowing that, you know,letting people also own it.
And in that key part, again,you know, listeners, you know, this
is a key, this is a key thingto really hone in on because you
(14:46):
need to be willing to listenyou, you know, and you need to be
able to listen to the peoplethat are in your fold on know your
And I say this A lot.
Employees aren't employees.
They're your team members,they're your partners and they can
know your business really well.
So really, you know, we allare evolving.
(15:10):
A mission, mission statementor your vision, it's always evolving.
It's not, and I always sayit's not something that you just
put up on the wall.
Right.
And read it.
It, it, it's not something itneeds to be actually in one of those
movable, you know, parts or ona digital board so you can constantly
evolve and update it.
Right?
(15:30):
Right.
Absolutely.
You know, I think to the, the,the key to that, to, to what you're
talking about is not justlistening to hear, but listening
to feel in that you're,you're, when you're listening to
your team and you're startingto feel what they feel and it's,
(15:53):
it's more than empathy and,and, and they will do the same for
you.
And to your point, you know,your team can know your business
really well in many ways.
They can know better than youor parts of it better than you.
And you as a leader need to beokay with that.
(16:13):
I, I teach a lot of new,young, new and young leaders that
as a leader you don't need toknow everything, you just need to
know who knows it.
That's what leaders do.
And, and that, that's how youbuild a really world class team is
you're doing what you're goodat, they're doing what they're good
(16:34):
at.
And, and your positions don't,you know, your, your title doesn't
matter in the delivery of theservice and the delivery of the mission.
Okay, so that's, that's a,it's a really key, astute observation.
Something to really be able torecognize too is that you, we don't
(16:55):
need to know everything and leaders.
You know, I always think backto Dale Carnegie.
You know, Dale Carnegie alwayssaid hire people that are smarter
than you so that you know thatyou'll help them rise up and they'll
help you rise up.
And if you hire people, if youbring people into your fold again,
(17:16):
it's where to go to get that information.
So what do you think stops you?
And I have, I know I have anidea in my brain because you know,
coaching people.
But what do you think stopspeople from being able to ask others,
like you're having a, youknow, being a leader to ask other
(17:39):
leaders maybe in theircompany, like, hey, I don't know
this but you know, can youhelp me?
I think there's two, two major factors.
One is ego.
I need to know it.
And, and, and I do know it andI'm great and, or I should be great.
And then the other one is fear.
(18:00):
What are people going to thinkif I don't know this or, or you know,
am I good enough to, to, towalk this road?
And, and all of that.
And there's both of thosethings have real, you know, in many
companies you don't,especially the unhealthy, toxic ones.
(18:23):
You do not want to showweakness because it'll be a feeding
frenzy.
Yeah.
And I think that's, that'swhere the fear comes from.
And as a leader, you justgotta bite your lip and figure it
out.
Even though you might have,you know, a team of 10 people and
four of them know, have theanswer already and you're, you're
hindering that flow.
(18:44):
But that's, that's probablythe biggest thing I find going into
toxic workplaces is that fearruns rampant and ego is, is part
of protecting us from, fromfear and from those repercussions.
And so those two work hand inhand to restrict you from, from free
(19:06):
flowing as a leader.
So how do you work with a leader?
Let's say who is that personwho has that fear and the ego and
they don't want to like I needto know it all.
How do you work with thatleader to let them understand that
they need, that they need toempower their team in order to actually
(19:29):
rise up?
You don't need to know it all.
If you empower your team,they're not going to think less of
you, they're going to thinkmore of you.
Yeah, absolutely they are.
So, so that's where you startis that as leaders and to me, good
to excellent to great leadersall, all have service in mind.
(19:52):
Poor leaders don't.
But, but most of them, youknow, most of the people want to
be a good leader.
I believe that they may nothave been taught all the right skills.
So that's the first thing isto point out what's in it for them.
You know, when you wake up onSunday night worried about the week,
or you can't sleep all Sundaynight and you go into the week exhausted
(20:15):
already because you're worriedabout this, that and the other thing
that can go away because youhave someone there that can do this
and it doesn't have to all beon you.
So you start identifying thosethings which by the way is that that
rolls through the organizationtoo, is that you should, as a leader,
(20:37):
you should let everybody knowwhat, what's in it for them because
they need to know.
And sometimes we think that'snot important.
It is one of the keys to.
Motivating people and what'sin it for them is very different
for each person too.
And that's the other thing.
It's very personal.
It's a very personal thing.
So I think that's part of it.
As I work with the leaders,getting to know them really well
(20:58):
about what motivates them,what gets them.
So for me as a leader, as Iwas evolving as a leader, I like
new challenging things andprojects and, and I liked high profile.
But more importantly it wasjust keep, you know, taking on learning
new things, especially when Iwas a young leader.
And so that's what I wanted.
(21:20):
So if, if as a, as my leaderthe, the ones who got to know me
best and, and I thrived under,they got to know.
Oh, I, I got another assignment.
He, he, he works hard tofigure out and learn new stuff.
I don't have to teach him everything.
All I have to do is give himanother assignment and, and, and
(21:45):
I don't have to do it right.
And so that's part of thatleadership piece is that you start
to learn I don't need to do everything.
And, and it's also reallyclarifying their role as a leader.
There's a number of thingsthat you're responsible for and I
have a long list.
But for this, this I'll talkabout two.
(22:05):
One is, is your role is toprotect the team.
You can't protect the team ifyou're doing.
And then the second big roleis to be the advocate for the customer
with the team and for the teamwith everyone else.
(22:27):
Those are.
So that's kind of two part,two parts to that one.
So you have those three mainroles that you have to have time
to do.
They're very time consumingand very, very much, you know, lots
of conversations, lots of, of,of interaction.
If you're, if you're doing asa leader and you're leading the entire
(22:49):
team and you're doing theirwork, then you're not serving your,
fulfilling your role and theteam's going to suffer.
Right?
And so you've really got to,and so when, when you point that
out to a leader who hasn't hadthat, they get it because they want
to do that.
That's one of the reasons theybecame leader.
(23:11):
And so they're okay.
So then we start working onthe nuts and bolts of okay, how do
you get out, out of this?
And we talk about okay, what'sthe skill sets of your team, what
do you have?
You can fill the gaps as theleader, but what do you have?
And then they, oh, I can handthis to this person and this to this
person.
(23:31):
And these two togetheractually would do great on this.
And then they, and you, youpractice by giving away, giving away
the, that stuff so you can dowhat you're.
Doing, you know, And I thinkthat's, you know, I, there's one
thing I just, that I think isso important to also recognize.
It is so true.
(23:51):
You don't want to necessarilybe in the trenches doing the work
because you, because you doneed to be the person up here that's
kind of being the, you know,you're the, you're the conductor,
right?
You're orchestrating andyou're, you're, you know, you're
getting all the moving partstogether, yet at the same time, if
there is a deadline or a,whatever you're in there with the
(24:13):
team, like, so the, there'sthat, that slight, like, I'm also
right here with you.
Yes, I, I think that'sincredibly important as, as I've
my career, I came up throughthe ranks and so I've done most of
the job.
So it really helps me getstreet credibility when I go into
(24:33):
a, into a work unit to help them.
And I think that's somethingthat I talk about is don't go in
when, when it's all hands ondeck to meet that deadline.
Don't go in and do stuff thatyou're lousy at because you'll mess
it up.
Go in with your strengths andfulfill that strength role, short
(24:54):
time, and then get out, right.
And let your team ask you for it.
Don't just jump on it and say,I'm going to do this.
Let your team say, you know,we need help to do the deadline.
And then you can say, as theleader, okay, here are the, here
are the three things I'mreally good at in this.
I think I should do that.
What do you, you know, do youagree they're going to know your
(25:17):
skills too?
They're going to go, yes,please go do that.
And then, and then the teamsucceeds and then you, and then the
secret is to pull back out,not stay there, because that's not
your role.
You pull right back out whenthe, when the crisis is over and
let everything, let everythingevolve and return back to the normal
(25:37):
flow.
Right.
And I think the biggestinsight that I hear, and I think
it's so important, the keything is communication.
And I talk a lot about whatI'm coaching is there's leveraging
communication.
And I think that is one of thebiggest things what you're sharing.
Again, this is a huge insight, listeners.
(25:58):
It's all about how you as aleader, communicate with your team,
whether it's, you know, inthe, the day to day and in crazy
mode.
And they're different.
And they're different.
Right, they're different.
But it, it's all aboutcommunication and not to also like
(26:20):
not barking at people, butbeing somebody who's participating
in.
And you're not barking orders,but you're, you're part of the team.
Yeah.
As a leader, you are part ofthe team.
You just have a different role.
Yeah.
And you, you should, youshould speak that as often as you
can so that you, youinternalize it, but also so your
(26:43):
team understands that you'dget it, that you're not above them,
you're not below them.
You are all equal.
You just have different rolesto play based on your skill sets
and, and all of that.
And so I think that's important.
I talk a lot about creating acommunication culture.
If you don't create that, itcreates itself.
(27:04):
So, so being conscious, beingconscious as a leader about what
that is.
You know, there's lots ofdifferent ways to do it, but I've
seen teams who, if you walkedinto them, you would, and you listened
to them communicate and youdidn't have all the context.
You would think they're,they're toxic, but they're not.
That's, that's the way they'vechosen to create their communication
(27:28):
culture.
And they enjoy it.
And they, you know, they, theycan be sarcastic and they can pick
at each other, but it's not inmalice and they do it in a healthy
way.
And then you have others whereit's very strict, it's very precise.
No, no way is wrong.
It's what's wrong for you orwhat's right for your team and, and
(27:49):
for your organization.
And that's part of that, that vision.
You create a communication culture.
You give it away so thateveryone's participating.
And then you, you're much.
Your health, your, yourpersonal health will do better, but
also the health of your organization.
The organization.
(28:09):
You know, Glenn, I could talkto you for hours about this.
I think this is like truly,truly fascinating.
And I'm, I'm assuming a lot ofthis can be found in your book, the
Human Centered Team and a lotof it.
Yep.
Yep.
Absolutely.
And is the Human Centered Teamavailable on Amazon?
It's on Amazon.
It has its own website calledhumancenteredteam.com as well.
(28:36):
And is that aplace@humancenteredteam.com is that
also a place where people canconnect with you as well?
Yes.
And they, and I have awebsite, akromoff.com that you can
take a look at some of thestuff we're doing.
We, we put a lot of stuff out there.
If you can use it, I'm, I'mhappy that you're using it.
(28:58):
You don't have to come to me.
But if I can help, that's whatwe're looking to do.
And the, the, the thing we'vebeen focused on now is, and it might
be another book we'll see.
It's called Model Leadership.
You, you.
(29:18):
And really that's what all ofmy program is based on is that I,
I as the leader model whatbehavior that I expect.
And that includes saying whenI make a mistake being, being truly
accountable and, and thosesort of things.
So that's part of our, that'spart of the human centered team,
(29:40):
I believe for sure is that asa leader you need to model what you're,
what you're looking for.
You know, not do as I say but,but do as I do.
But you can find all of those.
Definitely check out thewebsite and, and love to hear from
anybody who reads the bookabout what they think.
(30:01):
Well, fantastic.
So, okay, so listeners get thebook and connect with Glenn.
Because I'm also thinking ifyou're a parent.
Oh, that's a parenting book too.
Hey, that, that's my son inparticular is the one who helped
me develop this because he, hewas not easy as a, as a, as a child.
(30:26):
Yeah.
So there you go.
So, and that's, and that's thekey thing too is, is how we show.
Up.
As in our day to day, whetherwe're at home or at a company.
You know, we should beoperating from a place of our true
values.
And so they, they do need to mesh.
Obviously the places aredifferent, but the skill set is the
(30:49):
same.
Absolutely.
So thank you so much Glenn forbeing an amazing guest listeners,
please again connect with Glenn.
I will share the websites thathe has and a link to the book in
the show notes.
But if you've gotten somegreat insight from this podcast,
which I'm sure you have,please do me the favor of clicking
(31:11):
the subscribe button and thenalso doing me even one better which
is sharing it with yourfriends and business colleagues because
again, if we have can makebetter leaders, we can make a better
world.
I'm Jacqueline Stranger, thehost of the Unstoppable Leadership
Spotlight podcast.
And again, thank you, Glenn,for being an amazing guest.
And thank you, listeners, forlistening in.
Well, hello everybody andwelcome to another amazing episode
of the Unstoppable LeadershipSpotlight podcast where we hear from
amazing leaders and their gamechanging insights.
As you know, if we can havegreat leaders in the world, we can
change the world.
So I'd like to welcome to theshow Glenn Akramov and let me tell
you a little bit about him.
(00:23):
So Glenn is the founder andCEO of Akrabov llc.
His expertise isrehabilitating and revitalizing municipal
government workplaces and hasdeveloped a program that will improve
any organization by returninghumanity to the center of focus.
So key.
(00:44):
And he is the author of theHuman Centered Team.
So, so important informationand so welcome to the show.
Love talking about this great leadership.
Oh, oh.
So thank you.
I'm glad to be here.
So good to have you.
So Glenn, tell.
All right, so I got a lot ofquestions to ask, but I'm going to
start with a big one.
The human centered team in a nutshell.
(01:11):
Describe it.
Human centered teams about,about building teams and around the
human beings that are there.
I think one of the things wemake mistakes on is trying to build
it in some box.
And we in human being as humanbeings are not, can't be put in the
(01:32):
box.
The other part of it is about,particularly about the workplace
is we've spent the last 25 to30 years trying to get the emotion
out of a workplace.
Only, only we're human beingsand you can't take the emotion out
of us.
So it's about, it's aboutletting you know.
The secret to the whole thingis encouraging people to be who they
(01:55):
are.
And of course we have rulesaround everything but be who you
are.
You're allowed to beemotional, you're allowed to be happy,
you're allowed to be sad,you're allowed to be upset.
And then working through as aleader, noticing these things, reacting
(02:16):
to them and being curiousabout what the answer is and, and
what, why these emotions are coming.
You know, it's, it's soimportant in today's workplace.
And, and like there are somethings that are floating through
my brain about, you know, youknow, we, we talk a lot about emotional
intelligence and you know,and, but I also, the crux of this,
(02:41):
you know, is knowing.
Knowing your employees orknowing your team members.
I hate the word employees, butknowing your team members well enough
to recognize the good, the badand the ugly.
Absolutely.
I think it, it starts with,with I teach leaders.
(03:04):
You don't have to like yourpeople every day, but you have to
love them.
And it's okay to do that.
Actually, I think it'smandatory in my.
In my book.
That's.
That's kind of what I believe.
But in.
And if you do, then you.
You don't have a problempaying attention to them.
(03:25):
You don't have a problemgoing, wow, she's upset today.
Wow.
He seems really happy.
I want to find out what that'sabout so I can make sure that.
That we have something to dowith it.
I think the key to that, too,is, is understanding as a leader
that you don't just impactthat person or that team member or
(03:46):
the entire team.
You impact everyone they impact.
And that's a.
That.
That's a little heavysometimes, but it's also a great
responsibility.
Yeah, no, it's so true.
It's like the impact that wecan make on somebody is so crucial,
but we have to get to knowthem and know and be able to read.
Read people.
(04:06):
So.
So working.
So do you.
You work with both companiesand municipalities?
I do, yep.
So I'm kind of curious here.
So municipalities versus companies.
What.
Where do you see theleadership difference?
I don't.
(04:27):
There isn't a ton, really.
It's just about what you'refocused on.
So municipalities are focusedon service and not worried about
a profit margin.
Businesses are a lot of timesfocused on service, but they have
a profit margin.
The.
I think the difference comesfor a leader is in.
(04:48):
In how you manifest divisionand how you create that is really
where the difference is.
It's.
It's actually easier as aleader to create a inspiring vision
in a municipality becauseyou're impacting a specific community
every time you come.
(05:09):
Every.
Every action you take in this.
In.
In business, it's not alwaysthat clear.
So that's a challenge for abusiness leader that a municipal
leader doesn't face the diff.
The other thing is, is thatwhen you have a great employee in
the business, you get to takecare of them financially and, you
(05:32):
know, bonuses and trips andall kinds of things.
And that's not legal in government.
So.
So.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you have to be innovativein how you.
How you go about doing that.
And it goes back again tounderstanding who your people are.
Because sometimes, you know, alot of times you'll hear people say,
(05:55):
well, if you.
Your punishment for being agreat employee is.
Is.
Is getting more assignments.
Well, some.
Some people like that.
Right.
Some people want more action,some don't.
So it's.
It's understanding who they are.
But I think that's.
Those are really the nuancesbetween the two that I've found most
everything else stays fairly consistent.
(06:17):
But it's really key there toolike that, that how we, how we recognize
and give recognition andreward people is very, very.
It's obviously going to bedifferent between obviously a municipality
and a company.
But at the end of the day,what really matters is how, you know,
how are you.
(06:37):
Glenn, for example, how, howdo you like to be recognized and
take recognition?
Right.
So you might like, you know,the Benjamins or you actually might
prefer the plaque on the wall.
As long as it's a nice plaque,not one that just, you know, you
got a hobby lobby.
And I say that because I'mspeaking from experience on something
(07:01):
that I was gifted or anyway,so you know, when, so when you're
thinking that.
So you mentioned something.
You know, obviously mostcompanies are of service, but you
know, municipalities don'tnecessarily have a true profit.
They're not focused on theprofit margin.
They might hopefully befocused on saving ish maybe or what
(07:26):
they could do better orstretch the money out.
So you know, other than thefact that obviously one is, you know,
it's, it's profit is in thereand that they have the ability to
buy a gift or buy a trip.
How else do you, you know, isthere another difference that you
see on, on what profit can dounder leadership?
(07:49):
Yeah, I, I think there's a,there's a, a not so good side to
that and a re.
And a good side to that.
So let's start with thenegative side.
Okay.
A lot of times a company isformed for a purpose to serve you,
almost always to serve in some way.
And the, the founder orfounders, that's, that's why they
(08:12):
want to do it.
And yes, they're going to makemoney and that's important part of
it.
So they can do more.
But as you get bigger andbigger and bigger, you get farther
and farther away from thatpurpose and then money becomes the
driver keeping.
And I've learned this in myown business, right, is you, you
lose.
You're like, I got to pay thebills, I got to do this, that and
(08:33):
the other thing.
And you start focusing on themoney and not the purpose that it
can be.
Your purpose can be corruptedreally fast.
And then it becomes about themoney or about the process that we
use to serve and we get caughtup in the, in that and, and get away
from serving the positive.
The positive side is that, andI started to mention it, there is
(08:56):
that you can expand yourservice level and your impact level
much greater than a than amunicipality can.
Even on the state level, Imean even the federal level, they
don't have the daily, youknow, at the federal and state level,
they don't have the dailyimpact on, on people.
Despite what the news tells you.
(09:17):
They don't.
The, the, the locals do,right, to some extent.
So if you're, if you go toyour city, you know, you're going
to go to their park, they'reimpacting you, you're driving on
their streets day to day, youknow, all of those things impact
you directly, but that's their limits.
(09:39):
And when you get to the, whenyou get to a business, you can, you
know, and you look at all the,a lot of the big super successful
businesses, their impact,Amazon's a great example.
They impact everybody's lifeevery day now.
And they got to do thatbecause of, because they created
(09:59):
a way to do it and they keepexpanding and have a lot of financial
resources to continue.
Right.
And it's so, so, okay, sosomething that I think is really
important and listeners, Iwant you to really take hold of this
because I think it's, it'sreally key, you know, it's, it's,
you're knowing your purpose, right.
(10:21):
And trying to stay true to that.
So with that too, because it'sso important.
No, we, we do start companiesto serve others or there's some reason,
you know, we see a problemsomewhere and we're like, ooh, I
can fix it or I can, mywidget's gonna make something better,
right?
Solve a problem.
So what's your, what is your,your, you know, game changing way
(10:46):
for people to actually staytrue to that purpose and not let
money become the driver?
Like how do we keep thepurpose going?
And, and we know, because weall know, at least in my brain, we
all know that the more wefocus on the service and that part,
(11:12):
the money comes.
It does, it absolutely does.
And, and it, it, you canrestrict the flow by focusing on
the money rather than the, andI've experienced that personally.
So I think the, the key thingis, is that you're, you have a purpose
to be on the planet.
(11:33):
And, and you know, as you movethrough life, you start to evolve
and figure out what it is.
And, and part of that processis writing it down and creating goals
around it.
So that's kind of, you know,that's where you start.
In a business you have abusiness plan.
In a government you have astrategic plan and they're kind of
(11:55):
that purpose written down.
But as an individual, you, youhave to, and As a leader, you have
to instill the purpose of thecompany or the purpose of the organization
in the people.
So I, I talk to leaders aboutcreate an inspiring vision and give
(12:17):
it away.
And by that I mean you have tostop taking full possession of it.
Let other people own it,create it, morph it in to.
To things and then make ittheir own.
And when they do, then they,your employees and your, Your team
will guide you.
(12:38):
So that's happened to me inthe five years I've been in business
here twice where I started tofocus and worry about money because
cash flow and all that otherfun stuff you got to deal with and
real and my team, because theyunderstand the vision, the vision
has become theirs, not justmine, it's ours.
And they corrected me.
(12:59):
Now you have to be willing tolisten to them.
And I am, of course.
But that's, that's one, that'sone big way.
The other way is to understandthe year of all evolving as a human
being.
And you're growing and yourpurpose is going to look different
throughout your life and, andso will it for your company or your
(13:20):
organization.
So every once in a while, andI think as human beings we generally
go through this probably everyfive to eight years depending it's
time for a reset and, and it'snot tear everything down and throw
it out.
It.
It's just taking some time,some thoughtful time.
(13:42):
And we as leaders today don't,aren't good at that because everything's
moving so fast.
But taking some time thinkingabout what's really important, how
things have changed andevolved and where you really want
to continue to serve and whereyou don't.
And that both of those twothings can guide you to a new inspired
(14:04):
vision.
It can guide you to anotherproduct, another service, but it,
it gets you away from focusingon, on the money and the nuts and
bolts of the, of the companyand focusing on, on who you are and
why you started it in thefirst place.
You know, it's so importantand you know, there's a couple things
(14:25):
that, as you were talking andit's so, it's so true like you know,
being, you know, knowing yourmission and helping it evolve like,
and knowing that, you know,letting people also own it.
And in that key part, again,you know, listeners, you know, this
is a key, this is a key thingto really hone in on because you
(14:46):
need to be willing to listenyou, you know, and you need to be
able to listen to the peoplethat are in your fold on know your
And I say this A lot.
Employees aren't employees.
They're your team members,they're your partners and they can
know your business really well.
So really, you know, we allare evolving.
(15:10):
A mission, mission statementor your vision, it's always evolving.
It's not, and I always sayit's not something that you just
put up on the wall.
Right.
And read it.
It, it, it's not something itneeds to be actually in one of those
movable, you know, parts or ona digital board so you can constantly
evolve and update it.
Right?
(15:30):
Right.
Absolutely.
You know, I think to the, the,the key to that, to, to what you're
talking about is not justlistening to hear, but listening
to feel in that you're,you're, when you're listening to
your team and you're startingto feel what they feel and it's,
(15:53):
it's more than empathy and,and, and they will do the same for
you.
And to your point, you know,your team can know your business
really well in many ways.
They can know better than youor parts of it better than you.
And you as a leader need to beokay with that.
(16:13):
I, I teach a lot of new,young, new and young leaders that
as a leader you don't need toknow everything, you just need to
know who knows it.
That's what leaders do.
And, and that, that's how youbuild a really world class team is
you're doing what you're goodat, they're doing what they're good
(16:34):
at.
And, and your positions don't,you know, your, your title doesn't
matter in the delivery of theservice and the delivery of the mission.
Okay, so that's, that's a,it's a really key, astute observation.
Something to really be able torecognize too is that you, we don't
(16:55):
need to know everything and leaders.
You know, I always think backto Dale Carnegie.
You know, Dale Carnegie alwayssaid hire people that are smarter
than you so that you know thatyou'll help them rise up and they'll
help you rise up.
And if you hire people, if youbring people into your fold again,
(17:16):
it's where to go to get that information.
So what do you think stops you?
And I have, I know I have anidea in my brain because you know,
coaching people.
But what do you think stopspeople from being able to ask others,
like you're having a, youknow, being a leader to ask other
(17:39):
leaders maybe in theircompany, like, hey, I don't know
this but you know, can youhelp me?
I think there's two, two major factors.
One is ego.
I need to know it.
And, and, and I do know it andI'm great and, or I should be great.
And then the other one is fear.
(18:00):
What are people going to thinkif I don't know this or, or you know,
am I good enough to, to, towalk this road?
And, and all of that.
And there's both of thosethings have real, you know, in many
companies you don't,especially the unhealthy, toxic ones.
(18:23):
You do not want to showweakness because it'll be a feeding
frenzy.
Yeah.
And I think that's, that'swhere the fear comes from.
And as a leader, you justgotta bite your lip and figure it
out.
Even though you might have,you know, a team of 10 people and
four of them know, have theanswer already and you're, you're
hindering that flow.
(18:44):
But that's, that's probablythe biggest thing I find going into
toxic workplaces is that fearruns rampant and ego is, is part
of protecting us from, fromfear and from those repercussions.
And so those two work hand inhand to restrict you from, from free
(19:06):
flowing as a leader.
So how do you work with a leader?
Let's say who is that personwho has that fear and the ego and
they don't want to like I needto know it all.
How do you work with thatleader to let them understand that
they need, that they need toempower their team in order to actually
(19:29):
rise up?
You don't need to know it all.
If you empower your team,they're not going to think less of
you, they're going to thinkmore of you.
Yeah, absolutely they are.
So, so that's where you startis that as leaders and to me, good
to excellent to great leadersall, all have service in mind.
(19:52):
Poor leaders don't.
But, but most of them, youknow, most of the people want to
be a good leader.
I believe that they may nothave been taught all the right skills.
So that's the first thing isto point out what's in it for them.
You know, when you wake up onSunday night worried about the week,
or you can't sleep all Sundaynight and you go into the week exhausted
(20:15):
already because you're worriedabout this, that and the other thing
that can go away because youhave someone there that can do this
and it doesn't have to all beon you.
So you start identifying thosethings which by the way is that that
rolls through the organizationtoo, is that you should, as a leader,
(20:37):
you should let everybody knowwhat, what's in it for them because
they need to know.
And sometimes we think that'snot important.
It is one of the keys to.
Motivating people and what'sin it for them is very different
for each person too.
And that's the other thing.
It's very personal.
It's a very personal thing.
So I think that's part of it.
As I work with the leaders,getting to know them really well
(20:58):
about what motivates them,what gets them.
So for me as a leader, as Iwas evolving as a leader, I like
new challenging things andprojects and, and I liked high profile.
But more importantly it wasjust keep, you know, taking on learning
new things, especially when Iwas a young leader.
And so that's what I wanted.
(21:20):
So if, if as a, as my leaderthe, the ones who got to know me
best and, and I thrived under,they got to know.
Oh, I, I got another assignment.
He, he, he works hard tofigure out and learn new stuff.
I don't have to teach him everything.
All I have to do is give himanother assignment and, and, and
(21:45):
I don't have to do it right.
And so that's part of thatleadership piece is that you start
to learn I don't need to do everything.
And, and it's also reallyclarifying their role as a leader.
There's a number of thingsthat you're responsible for and I
have a long list.
But for this, this I'll talkabout two.
(22:05):
One is, is your role is toprotect the team.
You can't protect the team ifyou're doing.
And then the second big roleis to be the advocate for the customer
with the team and for the teamwith everyone else.
(22:27):
Those are.
So that's kind of two part,two parts to that one.
So you have those three mainroles that you have to have time
to do.
They're very time consumingand very, very much, you know, lots
of conversations, lots of, of,of interaction.
If you're, if you're doing asa leader and you're leading the entire
(22:49):
team and you're doing theirwork, then you're not serving your,
fulfilling your role and theteam's going to suffer.
Right?
And so you've really got to,and so when, when you point that
out to a leader who hasn't hadthat, they get it because they want
to do that.
That's one of the reasons theybecame leader.
(23:11):
And so they're okay.
So then we start working onthe nuts and bolts of okay, how do
you get out, out of this?
And we talk about okay, what'sthe skill sets of your team, what
do you have?
You can fill the gaps as theleader, but what do you have?
And then they, oh, I can handthis to this person and this to this
person.
(23:31):
And these two togetheractually would do great on this.
And then they, and you, youpractice by giving away, giving away
the, that stuff so you can dowhat you're.
Doing, you know, And I thinkthat's, you know, I, there's one
thing I just, that I think isso important to also recognize.
It is so true.
(23:51):
You don't want to necessarilybe in the trenches doing the work
because you, because you doneed to be the person up here that's
kind of being the, you know,you're the, you're the conductor,
right?
You're orchestrating andyou're, you're, you know, you're
getting all the moving partstogether, yet at the same time, if
there is a deadline or a,whatever you're in there with the
(24:13):
team, like, so the, there'sthat, that slight, like, I'm also
right here with you.
Yes, I, I think that'sincredibly important as, as I've
my career, I came up throughthe ranks and so I've done most of
the job.
So it really helps me getstreet credibility when I go into
(24:33):
a, into a work unit to help them.
And I think that's somethingthat I talk about is don't go in
when, when it's all hands ondeck to meet that deadline.
Don't go in and do stuff thatyou're lousy at because you'll mess
it up.
Go in with your strengths andfulfill that strength role, short
(24:54):
time, and then get out, right.
And let your team ask you for it.
Don't just jump on it and say,I'm going to do this.
Let your team say, you know,we need help to do the deadline.
And then you can say, as theleader, okay, here are the, here
are the three things I'mreally good at in this.
I think I should do that.
What do you, you know, do youagree they're going to know your
(25:17):
skills too?
They're going to go, yes,please go do that.
And then, and then the teamsucceeds and then you, and then the
secret is to pull back out,not stay there, because that's not
your role.
You pull right back out whenthe, when the crisis is over and
let everything, let everythingevolve and return back to the normal
(25:37):
flow.
Right.
And I think the biggestinsight that I hear, and I think
it's so important, the keything is communication.
And I talk a lot about whatI'm coaching is there's leveraging
communication.
And I think that is one of thebiggest things what you're sharing.
Again, this is a huge insight, listeners.
(25:58):
It's all about how you as aleader, communicate with your team,
whether it's, you know, inthe, the day to day and in crazy
mode.
And they're different.
And they're different.
Right, they're different.
But it, it's all aboutcommunication and not to also like
(26:20):
not barking at people, butbeing somebody who's participating
in.
And you're not barking orders,but you're, you're part of the team.
Yeah.
As a leader, you are part ofthe team.
You just have a different role.
Yeah.
And you, you should, youshould speak that as often as you
can so that you, youinternalize it, but also so your
(26:43):
team understands that you'dget it, that you're not above them,
you're not below them.
You are all equal.
You just have different rolesto play based on your skill sets
and, and all of that.
And so I think that's important.
I talk a lot about creating acommunication culture.
If you don't create that, itcreates itself.
(27:04):
So, so being conscious, beingconscious as a leader about what
that is.
You know, there's lots ofdifferent ways to do it, but I've
seen teams who, if you walkedinto them, you would, and you listened
to them communicate and youdidn't have all the context.
You would think they're,they're toxic, but they're not.
That's, that's the way they'vechosen to create their communication
(27:28):
culture.
And they enjoy it.
And they, you know, they, theycan be sarcastic and they can pick
at each other, but it's not inmalice and they do it in a healthy
way.
And then you have others whereit's very strict, it's very precise.
No, no way is wrong.
It's what's wrong for you orwhat's right for your team and, and
(27:49):
for your organization.
And that's part of that, that vision.
You create a communication culture.
You give it away so thateveryone's participating.
And then you, you're much.
Your health, your, yourpersonal health will do better, but
also the health of your organization.
The organization.
(28:09):
You know, Glenn, I could talkto you for hours about this.
I think this is like truly,truly fascinating.
And I'm, I'm assuming a lot ofthis can be found in your book, the
Human Centered Team and a lotof it.
Yep.
Yep.
Absolutely.
And is the Human Centered Teamavailable on Amazon?
It's on Amazon.
It has its own website calledhumancenteredteam.com as well.
(28:36):
And is that aplace@humancenteredteam.com is that
also a place where people canconnect with you as well?
Yes.
And they, and I have awebsite, akromoff.com that you can
take a look at some of thestuff we're doing.
We, we put a lot of stuff out there.
If you can use it, I'm, I'mhappy that you're using it.
(28:58):
You don't have to come to me.
But if I can help, that's whatwe're looking to do.
And the, the, the thing we'vebeen focused on now is, and it might
be another book we'll see.
It's called Model Leadership.
You, you.
(29:18):
And really that's what all ofmy program is based on is that I,
I as the leader model whatbehavior that I expect.
And that includes saying whenI make a mistake being, being truly
accountable and, and thosesort of things.
So that's part of our, that'spart of the human centered team,
(29:40):
I believe for sure is that asa leader you need to model what you're,
what you're looking for.
You know, not do as I say but,but do as I do.
But you can find all of those.
Definitely check out thewebsite and, and love to hear from
anybody who reads the bookabout what they think.
(30:01):
Well, fantastic.
So, okay, so listeners get thebook and connect with Glenn.
Because I'm also thinking ifyou're a parent.
Oh, that's a parenting book too.
Hey, that, that's my son inparticular is the one who helped
me develop this because he, hewas not easy as a, as a, as a child.
(30:26):
Yeah.
So there you go.
So, and that's, and that's thekey thing too is, is how we show.
Up.
As in our day to day, whetherwe're at home or at a company.
You know, we should beoperating from a place of our true
values.
And so they, they do need to mesh.
Obviously the places aredifferent, but the skill set is the
(30:49):
same.
Absolutely.
So thank you so much Glenn forbeing an amazing guest listeners,
please again connect with Glenn.
I will share the websites thathe has and a link to the book in
the show notes.
But if you've gotten somegreat insight from this podcast,
which I'm sure you have,please do me the favor of clicking
(31:11):
the subscribe button and thenalso doing me even one better which
is sharing it with yourfriends and business colleagues because
again, if we have can makebetter leaders, we can make a better
world.
I'm Jacqueline Stranger, thehost of the Unstoppable Leadership
Spotlight podcast.
And again, thank you, Glenn,for being an amazing guest.
And thank you, listeners, forlistening in.
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