September 26, 2025 • 49 mins
Roy Osing joins us today to share his powerful insights on how to truly stand out in the business world. With over 40 years of executive leadership experience, he's the only one who has taken a startup Internet company to over a billion dollars in sales. Roy emphasizes the importance of being different, not just for the sake of it, but in ways that genuinely resonate with customers. He introduces his unique concept of the "Only Statement," which helps businesses articulate their distinct value. Join us as we explore practical strategies for driving results and fostering a culture that prioritizes genuine customer connection. Get ready to rethink your approach to success!
A riveting conversation unfolds as Jaclyn Strominger welcomes Roy Osing, a remarkable figure in the business world. With over 40 years of experience, Roy shares his unique perspective on achieving success through differentiation. He emphasizes that success is not merely about implementing trendy tools or following the latest business fads but about having a clear strategy and a deep understanding of what your customers truly crave. Roy introduces his strategic game planning process, which revolves around three critical questions: how big do you want to be, who do you want to serve, and what do they truly crave? This thought-provoking dialogue delves into the importance of understanding customer emotions and differentiating oneself in a crowded market. Roy's insights challenge conventional wisdom and inspire listeners to rethink their approach to business, urging them to focus on genuine customer relationships rather than just transactional interactions. In a world filled with noise, he advocates for authenticity and the power of being truly different. The episode is not just informative; it’s an engaging exploration of what it means to be an unstoppable force in the business landscape, leaving listeners with actionable takeaways to implement in their own journeys.
Takeaways:
- Roy Osing emphasizes the importance of being different in business to achieve success, stating that differentiation is key to standing out from competitors.
- A strategic game planning process can help businesses define their revenue goals and identify customer cravings effectively, allowing for better execution.
- Understanding customer cravings rather than just their needs can lead to less competition and higher customer satisfaction, as cravings are driven by emotional triggers.
- Osing's 'Only Statement' concept helps businesses articulate what makes them unique, serving as a powerful tool for differentiation in the marketplace.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:41):
Well, hello everybody andwelcome to another amazing episode
of Unstoppable Success. I amyour host, Jaclyn Strominger. And
you know, on this podcast wehear from amazing leaders who have
been in the industry who havewalked the walk, done the talk, and
they are going to help you bethat unstoppable success. And today
(01:03):
I have the most amazing gueston Roy and actually I should have
confirmed your last name. OsingUsing
Okay. O sing a song. It's aneasy way to remember it.
That is a great way toremember. I like that. Well, let
me tell you a little bit aboutRoy. So first of all, he is actually
the only guy who took astartup Internet company to a billion
(01:26):
in sales. He is an author, anexecutive leader who delivers practical
and proven, audacious, unheardof ways to prove produce high performing
businesses and successfulcareers. He is a former President,
CMO and entrepreneur with over40 years of successful and unmatched
executive leadershipexperience in every aspect of business.
(01:49):
And he has taken a companybasically to, from early stage to
a billion in sales, I'mactually going to say, and now it's
over a billion. And as I said,he is the host of his own podcast
and he has also has an amazingbook series, Be different or be Dead.
So Roy, welcome to the podcast.
(02:10):
Thank you very much. I'mhonored to be here.
Glad to have you. Yeah. SoRoy, when we were talking before
the show, you know, one of thethings that, you know, having success
and as you have shared, youknow, we have to be, we have to find
ways to be different. And I'dlove for you to share like you were
(02:35):
given an opportunity. So howdid you start out being different
or at least even maybe makingyourself be seen differently?
Well, I mean, it all comesdown to context. Like I'm a context
guy. I'm not tacticallydriven. I don't chase AI or social
(02:58):
media just because it's sexyand it's a kind of gee whiz silver
tool. What I try and do iscreate a strategy around what you
want to be when you grow upand then look at how all of those
other things, tools, fitwithin that. Okay, so when we had
the challenge of basicallygrowing a business in a new technology
space called IP or theInternet, the first thing and I was
(03:23):
asked to lead the team in thecause, the first thing that we did
is figure out, all right,where do we want to go? How are we
going to win? And so I lookedaround and was not able to find any
strategic planning tools thatserved Me at all. And for the simple
reason that they were allfocused on the efficacy of the strategic
(03:46):
direction, okay. What I wantedas a leader was I wanted advice,
I wanted suggestions as how toexecute, okay? Because results and
for all you people out there,okay, it's not about leadership.
It's about getting results,okay? By mobilizing the hearts of
mind of people. And if youwant to tag that as leadership, go
(04:07):
ahead. But at the end of theday, in those positions, we're paid
to drive results. And so mychallenge was revenue. Revenue, top
line revenue, right? So I hadto figure out a way how to move it
up. So I created what I callmy strategic game planning process
that was. It was imprecisebecause you can't perfect imperfection,
(04:28):
right? It was imprecise, butwe got it done and we allow. It allowed
us to get. Keep our feetmoving and get going. And so the
strategic game planningprocess was a process that allowed
us to get going quickly andstart to mobilize people, right?
And it's really simple. It'screated by answering three questions.
(04:50):
The first question is, how bigdo you want to be? That's how much
revenue do you want in 24months? Not five years. Five years
never shows up. Five years iscrazy, right? You can't execute a
five year strategy. Youexecute in the moment, okay, With.
With just about right.Guidance that you're creating in
an imperfect world, right?That's. Second question is, where
(05:11):
are you going to get themoney? It's called who do you want
to serve? Right? This is allabout identifying customer groups
that have the latent demand toactually get you the revenue. Third
thing is, what do they crave?This is really important, right?
If you want to be successfuland you want to be unstoppable, you
have to figure out what yourtarget market craves, not what they
(05:32):
need. Because the need spaceis really competitive because everybody's
in. It tends to be price pricesensitive. Why would you want to
compete there when all that'sgoing to happen is you're going to
be driven into a commodity.Cravings, on the other hand, are
created by emotional triggers.We buy on the way we feel. It's an
emotionally driventransaction. Now, the interesting
(05:54):
thing there here, Jaclyn, isthat nobody competes in that space.
They're too busy trying tofigure out how to reduce costs and
satisfy customer needs. Dumbcrazy, right? Crazy. Get cravings,
done. Price insensitive. Boom.Third question is, how are you going
to compete and win? This leadsto the differentiation piece, okay?
(06:15):
Which I believe is the mostimportant issue for businesses and
organizations today, how to bedifferent is what you said expressed
generically. It's about, howcan I differentiate myself from other
competitors in the space in away that people care about? And I
had to create my owndifferentiation tool called the Only
Statement. It's like, we'renot going to be better, we're not
(06:37):
going to be best. We're notgoing to be number one. We're not
going to be the market leader,because that's claptrap. You can't
measure that. It's absolutelyuseless. And for all you guys out
there that think universalselling propositions and brand promises
are what you need, it's.They're not what you need because
all that is is narcissism.It's your view of you. The Only statement
(07:01):
says we are the only ones whothe only ones. It's binary. It either
exists or it doesn't exist.You can actually track it and blah,
blah, blah. And when you testit and everything else, you have
a declaration of beingdifferent that is absolutely pristine
and nobody else. Nobody elsewill touch it until they figure it
(07:23):
out and they'll try and copyyou. And then you gotta move again.
And so the Be differentjourney. And I'm sorry to carry on,
but this. But this is so. Thisis so the whole Be different journey
is about strategic context,okay? That drives actions that drive
performance, and it's based ondifferentiation, and it's based on
(07:43):
varying ways that I figuredout how to execute in a real simple
way. I didn't use textbooks. Iput the textbook down. Jaclyn and
I advise people. Okay, I seeyou have an mba. Good for you. Okay,
now you need to put that down.Yeah, Right. Well done. You show
me that you can think. Nowwhat I want you to do is I want you
(08:05):
to put that thought capabilityto a different use, and it's all
about being different.Execution, hiring for goosebumps,
killing dumb rules, gettingrid of claptrap. All the simple things
that we did that drove abillion dollars. And so is there
one simple silver bullet youcan tell by my answer? Absolutely
(08:26):
not. Right? There's a wholebunch of simple things that you can
do to light fires in peoplewithin a strategic context, right?
Manage the performance and seewhere you go. You may not get a billion.
You don't need to be going fora billion. You may just want to double
or one and a half times. It'sokay. Just get it going.
(08:47):
Right. Well, and the thing is,I guess the question is, did you
start out wanting to go to abillion or did it Start out like
a million, and then it waslike, well, now let's try to go here.
Right?
Yeah, the whole. Yeah, that'sa really good question. And no, we
didn't. Okay. We started outby saying we understand that the
potential was significant. Andso for year one of the plan, and
(09:08):
I can't remember the numbers,that was a while ago. But, but for
year one of the plan, we wereaudacious. We set a goal that we
had no idea how we were goingto achieve. And the reason I'm going
to mention this is it's soimportant. Okay. And I call it the,
I don't know, innovationprocess. Okay? Innovation is driven
by what you don't know, not bywhat you know. If you know how to
(09:29):
get the revenue, then whatmotivation do you have to do anything
differently to be innovativeand creative? Right. In your role
as a leader, there's nomotivation at all. But if you don't
know how you're going to getfrom where you are to what you've
defined as your 24 monthgrowth target, you have no choice,
(09:51):
okay? You must be innovativeand it drives that process. And so
every time out, we would setourselves a goal we had no idea how
to get. And the whole, thewhole raison d' etre of the organization
was to figure it out, figureit out on the run. This wasn't a
(10:12):
matter of equations orpredictive modeling, et cetera. It
wasn't. It's like, I'm at 50million, we're going to double revenue,
okay, in 12 months. And wehave no idea how to do it. Let's
figure it out. And guess what?If we came in at 95, did we fail?
No.
No.
Because if we did an equation,it probably would have suggested
(10:34):
60. And if we hit 60, we go,oh, nice. No, not when the potential
in this case might have been95. And so be really careful. Textbooks
promulgate things likepredictive equations and formularizing
everything. Okay, I get thatbecause I went through it. My degree's
(10:56):
in math, but I've never solveda differential equation to solve
a business problem, okay?Never have.
I laugh because it's like itis. Because not to like, because
I think it's so important justto say that too. Because maybe if
you were in a differentprofession, it would be totally,
you know, it would be, youknow, maybe on the engineering space
(11:18):
or maybe on the computerspace, but sometimes the things that
we learn in school today arenot necessarily the things that you
are going to need to actuallyused to run your business. But it
does help you critically think.
Well, it helps, yeah. It givesyou a bit of a logic structure. Okay.
Certainly that's what it didfor me. Okay. But the problem we
(11:40):
have in business today ispeople think that's the end result
as opposed to believing thatit's a means to an end. And there
are other things, okay. Thatare more important. Like they don't,
they don't teach the onlystatement at university, and yet
it was instrumental in drivingbusiness success to a billion dollars.
(12:00):
Well, I'm the only one thatwrites about it because it worked
for me and I created it. Andsome people don't believe it, by
the way, but, you know, it'sbeen proven over and over and over
again. And so, I mean, theproblem I have is the learning process,
of course, is important. AndI'm not denigrating, I'm just saying,
okay, good for you. Now let'stake on some new knowledge. Okay.
(12:24):
Stuff that actually works inthe real world. Because when you
tell me that your set ofassumptions are wrong, I look at
you and my eyes glaze over andI go, what is that what you're spending
time on trying to legitimizeand prove your assumptions? When
you should be out figuring outhow frontline people can execute
(12:46):
your imprecise vision. Andbetter, you should be figuring out
how to cleanse the inside ofyour organization from friction that
prevents value delivery.That's what you should be doing.
But instead you're trying todo enough more studies on your assumptions.
I mean, help me. Right, right.
(13:07):
It's crazy actually. You know,it's amazing what people will be
doing and the analysis thatthey are trying to do to actually
move their business. But Iwant to actually go back to this
statement. Well, two things.Number one is. And I'm going to go
back because first of all, Ilove this, that that statement, the
only ones statement that is.It really is the, the, the. To me,
(13:33):
I look at that as thequintessential where you've taken
the, you know, you, you canuse that to embody the core values
that you want to have withinyour company. But you're the, you
know that your company or yourbusiness is the only one who, as
you said, either does whateveryou're going to do or helps our customers
(13:56):
feel a certain way. You know,there's so many great ways to use
that as the differentiatorbetween you and what you want to
do and a competitor. Iabsolutely love that.
Well, look at it. It's notabout what you want to do. It's not
about what you think you have.It's not about what you think your
(14:19):
core strengths are. Okay. Ifyou follow the process, okay? And
I'm mindless about this, youhave to follow the. There are no
shortcuts. And so the part ofthe process is all about defining
the customer groups that youwant to serve and getting a deep
understanding as to what theycrave. It's not what you think you
can do for them, it's whatthey crave. And now the question
(14:43):
says, how can you play intothe cravings in a way that no one
else does? So the cravingsbasically drive your definition.
Let me give you an example. Ijust did an engagement with a company
that thought they were in thelawn cutting business. They thought
(15:03):
they were in the landscapingspace. And you call them homeowners
associations. In Canada, wecall them Strata corporations. We
did a. They were doing workfor them and they were having difficulties
because there was socompetitive. They were losing business,
they weren't growing. And sothey came to me and asked them. So
I took them through thisprocess. Okay. When we got to talking
(15:26):
about who you want to serve,we got them to focus on, in your
case, homeowners associations.And then the next question is, what
do they crave? Well, that wasan interesting conversation. They
didn't crave lawn cutting,they didn't crave painting. What
they craved was a single pointof contact that was available to
(15:48):
the Strata council or thehomeowners association council 24
by 7. And they needed a broadrange of services from that single
point of contact. Okay. It hadnothing to do with what the company
thought they were good at. Ithad to do with cravings drives, the
formulation of the only state.And so we came up with this only
(16:10):
statement, which I thought wasthe coolest thing. I finally got
them to it. I knew what it wasbefore we started, but we had to
let them kind of.
You have to let them getthere, right? They have to. They
have to buy. They have to buyinto it. Right?
I know, I know. And so. Sothis is. This is what they came up.
This company only statementwas that they are the only service
(16:30):
partner who delivers tailoredproperty development solutions for
homeowners associations.Property development solutions, right.
In other words, that empoweredthem. Right. To go beyond what they
were now doing. Now, propertydevelopment needs to be explained.
(16:51):
And part of the process, Icall it unpacking. The only statement
is to define what you mean bythese various phrases and words,
because unless you explainthem, it's hard to get people to
understand. But what this didis it Allowed them through the partner
network that they had topackage deals that involved lawn
(17:12):
cutting and painting and sewermaintenance and road. Road cleaning
in the winters. You know, allthis kind of stuff. And I know the
CEO very well, and I keep intouch with him. I says, how's it
going, Matt? He goes, oh, myGod, you wouldn't believe it. I said,
are you the only one that doeswhat you do? And he says, yeah, and
it's becoming a problem. I'mgetting so much business.
(17:35):
That's good, right? Right.
So the point here is, don'tstart off with what you think you
are, because that's basicallynarcissism. That's a narcissistic
view of differentiation, andthat's a huge problem today. Be guided
and comforted by the cravingsthat you define. And that's where
I want you to spend your work.Do you really understand what they
(17:57):
crave? What are the emotionaltriggers that that client group,
okay, have when making atransaction or engagement decision?
That's the space that you haveto go to, and that's what informs
the construction of the only statement.
Okay? So now my question toyou is, because I love this. I absolutely
love it. So have youformulated a set of questions or
(18:20):
a rough outline as to what.What people need to ask of their
customers so they can pull outthe craving?
Well, yeah. Yes and no. Imean, have I formulated a workbook?
No. Okay. What I try to do isimpress upon them what it means and
(18:46):
the intent and suggest thatthey go talk to these customers.
Go have a conversation, and beguided by the conversation. Like,
you. Don't walk out and say,jacqueline, sorry. What do you crave?
What do you desire? What doyou lust for? What is your absolute
unbelief?
A Reuben sandwich right now.
Just kidding. Well, so whatwe're going to try and do is package
(19:07):
the Reuben into the serviceexperience. You know, but a lot of
these people don't. Don'ttalk. Okay? And so the leaders that
I talk to and the process issimple. I just get the. The leadership
team for that business in aroom, and we create the strategy.
We don't have subject matterexperts. We don't have data mongers
with AI tools crunching data.It's like the leaders in the room.
(19:30):
All right? What you need to dois. And you got 10 minutes to think
about it, because, look,you're always going to be wrong.
This is a world ofimprecision, not a world of precision.
Tell me what you think. It'syour business. Tell me what you think.
Your customers Thosehomeowners associations crave at
(19:53):
the end of the day what keepsthem awake at night. And maybe this
is part of the workbook thing.What keeps them awake at night. Do
you know? I think you do.Let's just play with that. And what
came out of the conversationwas, yeah, single point of contact,
constant availability, followup, simple stuff. Not. It's the stuff
(20:15):
that makes you angry wheneveryou deal with a business today anyways.
Right. Try calling a callcenter and tell me if that was a
delightful experience or itjust pissed you off. Well, I, you
can tell the effect on me. Imean, and yet, and yet, tell me about
the, the FAQ AI algorithms.Okay. Who claim to provide better
customer service. Don't thinkso. And so let's be reasonable. Let's.
(20:41):
Let's first of all understandwhat we mean by desires and separate
that from needs. And so wehave a good conversation about that.
And then, then I just probethem. I just probe them. And, and.
But the other point I want tomake to you, it's a draft. The only
statement is always a draft.The reason for that is, is how can
(21:04):
anything be permanent in aworld that's changing so fast? How
can anything be permanent in aworld where customers cravings right.
And change? So you have topick what you think is just about
right. I call it just aboutright planning. And check out my
blog, there's a ton of stuffon my website about getting it just
(21:27):
about right. And startexecuting learn on the run. I call
it planning on the run. Justlearn as you go and adjust. Learn
as adjust.
You know, it's actually you.So you and I have a very similar
philosophy. I, I call itmeasure, monitor and adjust. We're
always measuring andmonitoring and adjusting. And that
you always have to evolve,whatever that statement is. But there's
(21:48):
two things that, that are.That I think that really come out
of. Also what you're sayingis, I mean, obviously, you know,
nothing set in stone. Youalways have to be able to be nimble
and be able to, you know,learn number one. But number two
is that you have to also be incontact with your customer and to
listen to them and askquestions of them because you won't
(22:08):
know what they're cravingunless you actually ask. I mean,
you can assume, but you knowwhat that word does. Right. So, you
know, so we don't want to do,we don't want to assume that, but
you to know what that is, youhave to open your mouth.
Yeah. So part of it for me iswhat I did, and it worked. Like a
(22:28):
dam is. I made it a necessaryingredient of the performance management
process. Okay, so let me giveyou an example. Salespeople were
held accountable to not justsell. And I completely redid that,
because flogging products isnot the way to unstoppable success.
It's short term at best, andit's just another expression of supply
(22:50):
driven narcissism. So I justdidn't do it. I completely revamped
the sales process. Well, oneof the things that they were measured
on is, is I call them gaining,learning customer secrets. A secret
is something, as you know,that you don't tell very many people.
Right. You reserve yoursecrets for people you trust. Right.
(23:13):
All right, so now we'regetting somewhere. So what I wanted
is I wanted these salespeopleto have intimate relationships with
their clients. Now, I knowthat sounds kind of weird, but the
reality is that's what Iwanted them to do. I wanted. And.
And the return for that wasfigure out what. And I called them
secrets. Cravings. Figure itout. And they were held accountable.
(23:34):
I would go in the workplaceand I'd say, okay, let's keep this
simple. I want you to have acravings manual on your customers.
Okay. So I'd call you in,Jaclyn. I'd say, hey, Jaclyn, let
me see your manual. Well, thefirst few times you didn't have a
manual, but after a while, youhad a manual. Was it perfect? I don't
know. Probably not. But thereality is you spent time probing,
(24:00):
getting to know the client.Right. And recording. And that's
the important thing. It's notabout making friends. It's not. It's
about getting information thatyou can use. Again, going back to
my context, that you can usestrategically, right. To. To win
business and grow revenues.Because make no mistake, at the end
(24:21):
of the day, that's what we asleaders are paid to do. We're not
paid to make friends. We'repaid to get the right levers in place
to drive top line revenues. Atleast I was. And I was paid on the
basis of that, as waseverybody on my team. And so figuring
out a way to integrate thesethings into established systems was
(24:44):
key. And so the performancemanagement system for me was. Was
brilliant because I justintegrated it all there.
And.
And walking through theworkplace at first was kind of awkward
some, for some people. When Iasked them, I mean, even in audit.
Okay, Audit.
Right.
Has clients, their internalcustomers. Right. When I'd ask them
to see their. Their cravingsmanual, first of all, they didn't
(25:09):
believe I would ever do it.But it only took once to ask the
question. And then suddenlythey started thinking about, okay,
who are my internal clients?What makes them happy? What triggers
emotion?
Wow.
I mean, that's strategic ashell, right? I mean, I guess I'm
just thinking about it. Right.
So. So I'm. I'm curious. Sowhere did this all come from for
(25:32):
you?
Well, first of all, I'm a. I'ma weird guy, right?
I love it.
I. I'm guided. I have a. Ihave my leadership philosophy. If
you want to put a tag on it isleadership by serving around. It's
my own tag. It's notleadership by management. Management
(25:54):
by wandering around, like, it.Like a lot of people. It's not about
servant leadership. It's aspin on that. It's leadership by
serving around. It's all basedon embedding yourself with people
and asking the question, howcan I help? Okay, how can I help?
The strategy is to unblockthings that are impeding what execution?
(26:18):
So it's mindless. So what Iwanted to know is, okay, walking
through marketing, wanderingthrough. Through sales or wherever.
Okay, how can I help you? If Ican figure out a way to connect at
that level, people are happybecause their jobs are easier. And
I'm happy because what I callviscosity of the value delivery system
(26:42):
goes up, which means inputsversus output process is effectively
improved, and the customergets value quicker. And how is that
translated? Oh, yeah,revenues. Yeah, revenues. And so
I tried a lot of things. I wasone of these guys that was. I tried
(27:03):
stuff, right? I listened topeople, and I would try and kind
of like, turn it into a biggerconcept. So when people talk to me
about the inability to recruitthe right people, I start thinking
about recruitment generallyand how can I hire people that actually
care about human beings asopposed to floggers, Right. People
(27:24):
who actually were born withthis I love humans gene. And why
is that important? Becausecustomer relationships are all about
caring. Right? And so that'swhere the hiring for Goosebumps came.
Because it occurred to me thatit's all about learning, getting
inside your head and you're.And finding out the experiences you
had where you actually caredabout someone else. And I would say
(27:47):
to you, I'd say, jacqueline,look at. Do you love people? And
of course you would. And Iwould took. I took part in interviews
all the time. So you got thepresident of the company in a panel
interview with people who areapplying for a customer service job.
Yeah, that was intimidating,but it also carried the message,
this is Important, right? SoI'd say, oh, yeah. Do you love people?
(28:08):
And of course you would say,of course, Roy. Yeah, I do. So then
I would then say, okay,Jaclyn, tell me a story that would
show me how much you lovedpeople. And this is what separated
the wheat from the chaff,okay? Because the people that were
playing a mind game with megave me a terrible, superficial story
that left me feeling like afish, and I escorted them out. But
(28:31):
the people, okay, that reallydid believe it and have the ability
would give me a story that wasrich in emotion and caring. Gave
me goosebumps. That's wherethe title came from. Hire. I hire
that person. And if I had toteach them the job, I did. Because
you can't teach people to lovehumans. You can't. You can teach
(28:54):
them to smile. Hi. And we allknow what that's called, right?
Right.
So the grinning thing. But youcan't teach them to love humans.
And so a lot of those things Ijust tried, okay? Just like killing
Dumb Rules. Killing Dumb Ruleswas. Was a really good program, and
it totally cleansed the insideof the organization. And the idea
(29:17):
was simple. Get rid of thethings that piss customers off. And
don't tell me that you don'thave any of those rules, because
you do.
Oh, gosh.
Right. Rules. Competitions.And, oh, we had so much fun in the
workplace. And so I juststarted doing stuff like that, and
it grew. And you know what?Eventually, eventually other people,
(29:40):
like my direct report team,they started coming up with the weird
stuff, too. And so it. Just.Because it was like a virus, but
a good virus that spread. And,you know, eventually we got to a
billion.
So, Roy, I mean, a lot of it,you know, things that you are sharing,
(30:01):
it's. There's something thatyou have done that I also really
want to make sure everybodyunderstands. You use these things
that are on the side of yourhead. They're called ears, and they.
You really listen. It's not.It wasn't you. It wasn't you trying
(30:23):
to pontificate something thatyou've read onto other people. But
in actuality, it was youlistening to other people so that
you could create the thingsthat were going to make that team
sing and work well together orwhat was going to help bring out
the best in other people,which is so important. And, you know,
(30:47):
just even hear you talk about,you know, interviewing. Right. You
know, telling the story about,you know, caring for somebody else
or some, like, something thatshows that you. That you care something
about the character. And. Andyou said this. You can Train somebody.
And it's. I think this isreally quintessential. You cannot
(31:10):
teach character or values. Youcan train somebody for a job, but
you can't train them on thecharacter or the values that they
have. And if those valuesdon't and their character does not
align with what you want as acompany or what, you know, the. That's
(31:31):
going to align with that. Theonly ones whose statement that you've
come up with, they're not, right?
Absolutely. Absolutely. You.You. I mean, the reality is true
differentiation, okay, in theworld is created by caring, okay?
You take whatever product youwant. I don't care what it is. I
(31:53):
don't care what the technologyplatform is. I don't care about any
of that, okay? If you don'thave a culture, okay, of people that
actually give a damn abouthuman beings, you will not be successful,
okay? People will go and findpeople that they like to do business
with. You have to like andwant and desire to do business with
(32:15):
you if you're going to beunstoppable, okay? So there's a huge
part of that. And for me, itwas a matter of defining a culture
and value set around thatprinciple. I mean, a lot of people
call it heart led, blah, blah,blah. It's not heart led because
sometimes people get caught upin that. And as that's the end result.
(32:39):
No, it's not the end result.It's how can I use heart lead to
drive revenues, right? Andthat gets lost. And I have to keep
repeating that. By the way,it's not about being different for
the sake of being different.It's about being different in a way
other people care about,right? So it's like I'd say to people,
like, I really don't careabout the color of your hair. I don't
(32:59):
care about your pronouns. Idon't care about any of that stuff.
Because if you want to definethat as be different, get out. That's
not what I'm talking about. Iwant to know what you are going to
do that is super special andunique in a way that other people
care about. I want you not tobe a narcissist. And it's so hard
these days. It's so hard. Imean, we have a population of narcissists
(33:24):
and they're being taught. Imean, just check TikTok out, for
God's sake. I mean, it's crazyanyways. I just. That says woof woof.
You know, you got to get backto some basics. Let's exist. We exist
to serve Others. That's whatbusiness is all about. You want to
be unstoppable. You be thebest server in the world. All right?
(33:47):
Be that, be the only serverthat does something. Oh, this is
good. I could actually write acouple blog articles about. You're
doing a nice job pulling stuffout of me here.
That's good. I love it. Butthat's so true. It's like, yeah.
You know, and I, and you thinkabout what differentiates. Like,
you know, I always say thegood, the bad and the ugly. Right.
It's like, what's going todifferentiate? It's like how you
(34:08):
ended up making somebody elsefeel if you can. And if, at the end
of the day, it's, you know, tome, it's like, okay, I, I can't wait
to find, let's just say thecredit card company that goes back
to using phones and havingpeople answer the phone on the first
call. Oh, my God. Because asyou said, like, you know, I'm that
(34:31):
person.
I'm like, oh, right.
You know, like, and unlessthere's, I'm like, making the face
of like and trying to, like,go operator, operator, operator or
representative, represent. Imean, oh, we, we all, none of us
like it. Nobody likes it.
It's terrible. It's terrible.
Likes it.
Yeah.
But yet it's, like, becomethis norm thing. And so I, I, I have
(34:54):
become that. I've made thistendency, like, anytime I'm picking
up the phone to call somebodyor to call a, a company or something
like that, and I'm, you know,to walk through something. By the
time I get to them, I alwayshave to stop myself and say, I am
so sorry, but I hate yoursystem. And I have to say this because
otherwise I'm going to be acomplete ass. And I don't want to
(35:16):
be an ass because that's notwho I am. But I feel sorry for you
because I'm sure people justwant to get to you and they have
to go through whatever. Oh,and by the way.
Yeah, it's, you know, it's,it's. Yeah. My diagnosis is that
people talk about serving,okay, but they behave in terms of
(35:39):
cost management. And so allyou're running into is the classic,
yeah, I mean, I really want toexceed expectations, but it comes
with a price tag, and I'mgoing to manage the hell out of the
cost. I mean, why do you thinkpeople are using or outsourcing call
centers all over the world?It's because unit costs are lower.
And then they try, they tryand fool us by saying, you know,
(36:02):
we exist to serve customers.There's one person that I know of
or that I knew of, guy by thename of Tony Shea, who was the CEO
of a company in Las Vegas.Unfortunately, he's no longer with
us, but he set up a companywith a call center and he called
it a loyalty center. Okay. Andeverybody thought that. He wrote
(36:23):
several books around thiswhole notion of delivering Zappos,
that was a company. Hedelivered. He would deliver service
through this call center,which he called Delivering Happiness
and a loyalty center. And sothe objective was really simple.
It would dazzle the customer.My words. He had different words
and everybody thought he wascrazy. Well, guess what? Eventually
(36:45):
Zappos to Bezos in Amazon fora billion dollars. So if you want
to talk about monetization ofthe whole notion of happiness and
caring, there's an example,right? But nobody does that. He's
the only example. Everybodytalks about having a custom, a call
center that cares about, youknow, an experience with customers,
but it's all bullshit. Theydon't do that. And I. My gimmick
(37:10):
is different because I knowexactly where you're coming from
with that. Because they havethe power, right? If you don't treat
these reps right, you're goingto be done and you're going to have
to go through it again. So my,my phrase is, thanks for taking my
call. And I just leave it atthat and go on, right? Because they
know, like, frontline people,frontline people want to serve you.
(37:31):
They want you to be happy.It's not their fault. It's a leadership
issue. And so I try. But we'retalking about. We're talking about
differentials and so forth.And, and one of the things I love
to talk about on podcasts isthis, is this whole notion of brand
promises. Because that tendsto be the tool these days, right,
(37:52):
that people are taught to useto express themselves as being unique.
So let me give you an exampleof a couple of brand promises that
I just think are hilarious.Here's the first one. This company
claims they are the earth'smost customer centric company. So
the brand promise is they willbe. They are the most customer centric
(38:17):
company on the earth. Howbelievable is that? How about this
one? This one is the world'smost refreshing beer. So these companies
actually believe that thesepromises create a unique differential
(38:37):
experience in the minds ofcustomers. And it's a joke, but this
is what they're being taught.This is the kind of like opposite
perspective to the onlystatement. What this says is, it's
first of all, it'snarcissistic as hell. And secondly,
it shows you it's based onaspirations. I'm not saying that
aspirations have no value.They do. But not in a competitive
(38:59):
claim. You want to be reallyspecific to cravings, etc to say
that you're the Earth's mostcustomer centric company. Come on.
I mean, who's going to believethat? I'm not even going to tell
you who it is. You. You will.You would. Okay, just go and Google
after brand promises,examples, and you'll find this one
(39:19):
and you'll, you'll gigglebecause it's, it's kind of funny.
And, and this other one is, iskind of neat. It's the most reliably
familiar dining experienceanywhere on Earth. Again, very, very
famous company. So this is theissue out there. And unfortunately,
(39:41):
the people that suffer fromthinking like that are customers.
People like you and I whoseexpectations are raised. This is
going to be the mostwonderfully consistent experience
on the planet. And we go inand we're disappointed and we go,
huh, Shame on them. Shame onthem. The only statement is my solution
(40:03):
to cutting through thatbecause that's not the space we play.
We are led by cravings anddriven to stand alone. Oh, never
said that before. That's agood quote. I would normally ask
you to text it to me becauseI'll forget it when.
No, but guess what? I'll giveyou the recording of this and so
you'll actually know it. So.
(40:24):
But that's, you know, so.
Yeah, but it's, it's. Rory, Icould talk to you for hours about
this. And, and, and it'smaking me even think about, you know,
and, and it could actually bea whole different subject, which
is, you know, the, the wholesurvey, survey culture that's come
out. Oh, we need to get yoursurvey of, of the service, of how
(40:46):
well we did. And then youactually pay the employee based on
the survey that you got. Sothe employee says, please make sure
that you give me a, a five oryou know, out of one out of five
so I can get paid properly. Imean, like back ass word. Right?
You know, that's a whole lotof cultural thing.
I mean, that's, that's. Again,it's not their fault.
(41:07):
No, not their fault, butagain. But the top leadership, like,
it's really that I.
What we want to know is, andthis is because people are driven
to behave that way with us ascustomers, is because they're afraid,
okay, They've been punished,okay, by leadership, by getting Certain
(41:27):
numbers, as opposed to coachedto do better. And so it all comes
back. It all comes back tothose people who are trying to lead
from their office, who havenever talked to customers, don't
talk to employees. Theyactually think the frontline people
are at the bottom of theorganization as opposed to the top.
I mean, it's like all of thatstuff and unfortunately it translates
(41:52):
into behaviors like that thatare being exhibited and. And it's
simply not their fault, notthe individual's fault.
Right, right. It's not. Yeah,it's crazy. All right, so Roy, tell
our listeners how they can getmore of you, learn more about you,
connect with you, hire you ifthey want to. So they can. You can
(42:13):
help them with their statement.
Sure. Well, I've got awebsite, be different or Be dead
dot com. So go and check itout. I blog very, very regularly
on my stuff around Bedifferent or be Dead. And check out
the blog. And pleasesubscribe. You want to know more
(42:34):
about hiring for Goosebumps orkilling dumb rules or strategic game
planning, go to the blog.There's also I try and make the blog
as detailed as I can. Andyeah, sometimes I repeat because
people learn different ways.And so I'm trying to be flexible
enough to do that. You'll alsofind a page on my seven books describes
what they are. And you cancheck that out. I've got on my homepage
(42:58):
actually my podcast, which iscalled Audacious Moves to a Billion.
It's actually embedded in thehomepage, so you can check that out
if you want. And I think myfavorite part of my website is my
quiz. So is it be different orbe dead quiz? Right. If you could
check that out. It's intendedto have people do a self assessment
as to where they sit on the bedifferent or be dead continuum. Are
(43:22):
they claptrap and narcissistsor are they really be different and
starting to think aboutcravings and that differentiation
piece. And it's kind of fun.You get to rate yourself and the
machine calculates yournumber. You can do that individually,
you can do that with yourteam. It's kind of fun. It's kind
of team building. So you cancheck that out. And recently I just
(43:46):
introduced a new part of myblog called Standalone Saturday.
So this whole idea is justtake a real laser focus on differentiation
and I'm calling it Standalone.Okay. And using that as the theme.
So it talks about why it'simportant, what are the sorts of
things that you can do. Andit's strong language. Right. It's
(44:07):
hard hitting, right. Itcondemns you if you're a part of
a crowd. I mean, I just callyou out, right? We'll see how that
works out. So you can checkthat out. And lastly, yeah, lastly,
I have a, I have a email.Roy.osingmail.com and to your point
about only statements, it's.It's just simply my way of saying
(44:29):
I'm, I'm here, I'm here foryou. If you have a question, if I
can help you anyway, pleasejust reach out and I'd be happy to
do that. And so, yeah, I getpeople saying, hey, Roy, I heard
you on blah blah, and here'smy draft only statement. What do
you think? That a wonderfulquestion. And so I use that as a
way to kind of like developrelationships, extend my tribe and
(44:53):
hopefully eventually we make adifference. Helping people think
differently. Get out of thecrowd, get out of the herd. You know,
be special in a way that otherpeople care about. Put the textbook
down, all those kinds ofthings that I talk about.
That's awesome. I absolutelylove it. So, listeners, I am sure
you have gotten a lot out ofthis podcast and are on your way
(45:17):
to unstoppable success. I'myour host, Chaplain Scher. Please
do me the favor. Go to OliveRoy's, his website.
(46:06):
I think I've lost you.
Sa.
Well, hello everybody andwelcome to another amazing episode
of Unstoppable Success. I amyour host, Jaclyn Strominger. And
you know, on this podcast wehear from amazing leaders who have
been in the industry who havewalked the walk, done the talk, and
they are going to help you bethat unstoppable success. And today
(01:03):
I have the most amazing gueston Roy and actually I should have
confirmed your last name. OsingUsing
Okay. O sing a song. It's aneasy way to remember it.
That is a great way toremember. I like that. Well, let
me tell you a little bit aboutRoy. So first of all, he is actually
the only guy who took astartup Internet company to a billion
(01:26):
in sales. He is an author, anexecutive leader who delivers practical
and proven, audacious, unheardof ways to prove produce high performing
businesses and successfulcareers. He is a former President,
CMO and entrepreneur with over40 years of successful and unmatched
executive leadershipexperience in every aspect of business.
(01:49):
And he has taken a companybasically to, from early stage to
a billion in sales, I'mactually going to say, and now it's
over a billion. And as I said,he is the host of his own podcast
and he has also has an amazingbook series, Be different or be Dead.
So Roy, welcome to the podcast.
(02:10):
Thank you very much. I'mhonored to be here.
Glad to have you. Yeah. SoRoy, when we were talking before
the show, you know, one of thethings that, you know, having success
and as you have shared, youknow, we have to be, we have to find
ways to be different. And I'dlove for you to share like you were
(02:35):
given an opportunity. So howdid you start out being different
or at least even maybe makingyourself be seen differently?
Well, I mean, it all comesdown to context. Like I'm a context
guy. I'm not tacticallydriven. I don't chase AI or social
(02:58):
media just because it's sexyand it's a kind of gee whiz silver
tool. What I try and do iscreate a strategy around what you
want to be when you grow upand then look at how all of those
other things, tools, fitwithin that. Okay, so when we had
the challenge of basicallygrowing a business in a new technology
space called IP or theInternet, the first thing and I was
(03:23):
asked to lead the team in thecause, the first thing that we did
is figure out, all right,where do we want to go? How are we
going to win? And so I lookedaround and was not able to find any
strategic planning tools thatserved Me at all. And for the simple
reason that they were allfocused on the efficacy of the strategic
(03:46):
direction, okay. What I wantedas a leader was I wanted advice,
I wanted suggestions as how toexecute, okay? Because results and
for all you people out there,okay, it's not about leadership.
It's about getting results,okay? By mobilizing the hearts of
mind of people. And if youwant to tag that as leadership, go
(04:07):
ahead. But at the end of theday, in those positions, we're paid
to drive results. And so mychallenge was revenue. Revenue, top
line revenue, right? So I hadto figure out a way how to move it
up. So I created what I callmy strategic game planning process
that was. It was imprecisebecause you can't perfect imperfection,
(04:28):
right? It was imprecise, butwe got it done and we allow. It allowed
us to get. Keep our feetmoving and get going. And so the
strategic game planningprocess was a process that allowed
us to get going quickly andstart to mobilize people, right?
And it's really simple. It'screated by answering three questions.
(04:50):
The first question is, how bigdo you want to be? That's how much
revenue do you want in 24months? Not five years. Five years
never shows up. Five years iscrazy, right? You can't execute a
five year strategy. Youexecute in the moment, okay, With.
With just about right.Guidance that you're creating in
an imperfect world, right?That's. Second question is, where
(05:11):
are you going to get themoney? It's called who do you want
to serve? Right? This is allabout identifying customer groups
that have the latent demand toactually get you the revenue. Third
thing is, what do they crave?This is really important, right?
If you want to be successfuland you want to be unstoppable, you
have to figure out what yourtarget market craves, not what they
(05:32):
need. Because the need spaceis really competitive because everybody's
in. It tends to be price pricesensitive. Why would you want to
compete there when all that'sgoing to happen is you're going to
be driven into a commodity.Cravings, on the other hand, are
created by emotional triggers.We buy on the way we feel. It's an
emotionally driventransaction. Now, the interesting
(05:54):
thing there here, Jaclyn, isthat nobody competes in that space.
They're too busy trying tofigure out how to reduce costs and
satisfy customer needs. Dumbcrazy, right? Crazy. Get cravings,
done. Price insensitive. Boom.Third question is, how are you going
to compete and win? This leadsto the differentiation piece, okay?
(06:15):
Which I believe is the mostimportant issue for businesses and
organizations today, how to bedifferent is what you said expressed
generically. It's about, howcan I differentiate myself from other
competitors in the space in away that people care about? And I
had to create my owndifferentiation tool called the Only
Statement. It's like, we'renot going to be better, we're not
(06:37):
going to be best. We're notgoing to be number one. We're not
going to be the market leader,because that's claptrap. You can't
measure that. It's absolutelyuseless. And for all you guys out
there that think universalselling propositions and brand promises
are what you need, it's.They're not what you need because
all that is is narcissism.It's your view of you. The Only statement
(07:01):
says we are the only ones whothe only ones. It's binary. It either
exists or it doesn't exist.You can actually track it and blah,
blah, blah. And when you testit and everything else, you have
a declaration of beingdifferent that is absolutely pristine
and nobody else. Nobody elsewill touch it until they figure it
(07:23):
out and they'll try and copyyou. And then you gotta move again.
And so the Be differentjourney. And I'm sorry to carry on,
but this. But this is so. Thisis so the whole Be different journey
is about strategic context,okay? That drives actions that drive
performance, and it's based ondifferentiation, and it's based on
(07:43):
varying ways that I figuredout how to execute in a real simple
way. I didn't use textbooks. Iput the textbook down. Jaclyn and
I advise people. Okay, I seeyou have an mba. Good for you. Okay,
now you need to put that down.Yeah, Right. Well done. You show
me that you can think. Nowwhat I want you to do is I want you
(08:05):
to put that thought capabilityto a different use, and it's all
about being different.Execution, hiring for goosebumps,
killing dumb rules, gettingrid of claptrap. All the simple things
that we did that drove abillion dollars. And so is there
one simple silver bullet youcan tell by my answer? Absolutely
(08:26):
not. Right? There's a wholebunch of simple things that you can
do to light fires in peoplewithin a strategic context, right?
Manage the performance and seewhere you go. You may not get a billion.
You don't need to be going fora billion. You may just want to double
or one and a half times. It'sokay. Just get it going.
(08:47):
Right. Well, and the thing is,I guess the question is, did you
start out wanting to go to abillion or did it Start out like
a million, and then it waslike, well, now let's try to go here.
Right?
Yeah, the whole. Yeah, that'sa really good question. And no, we
didn't. Okay. We started outby saying we understand that the
potential was significant. Andso for year one of the plan, and
(09:08):
I can't remember the numbers,that was a while ago. But, but for
year one of the plan, we wereaudacious. We set a goal that we
had no idea how we were goingto achieve. And the reason I'm going
to mention this is it's soimportant. Okay. And I call it the,
I don't know, innovationprocess. Okay? Innovation is driven
by what you don't know, not bywhat you know. If you know how to
(09:29):
get the revenue, then whatmotivation do you have to do anything
differently to be innovativeand creative? Right. In your role
as a leader, there's nomotivation at all. But if you don't
know how you're going to getfrom where you are to what you've
defined as your 24 monthgrowth target, you have no choice,
(09:51):
okay? You must be innovativeand it drives that process. And so
every time out, we would setourselves a goal we had no idea how
to get. And the whole, thewhole raison d' etre of the organization
was to figure it out, figureit out on the run. This wasn't a
(10:12):
matter of equations orpredictive modeling, et cetera. It
wasn't. It's like, I'm at 50million, we're going to double revenue,
okay, in 12 months. And wehave no idea how to do it. Let's
figure it out. And guess what?If we came in at 95, did we fail?
No.
No.
Because if we did an equation,it probably would have suggested
(10:34):
60. And if we hit 60, we go,oh, nice. No, not when the potential
in this case might have been95. And so be really careful. Textbooks
promulgate things likepredictive equations and formularizing
everything. Okay, I get thatbecause I went through it. My degree's
(10:56):
in math, but I've never solveda differential equation to solve
a business problem, okay?Never have.
I laugh because it's like itis. Because not to like, because
I think it's so important justto say that too. Because maybe if
you were in a differentprofession, it would be totally,
you know, it would be, youknow, maybe on the engineering space
(11:18):
or maybe on the computerspace, but sometimes the things that
we learn in school today arenot necessarily the things that you
are going to need to actuallyused to run your business. But it
does help you critically think.
Well, it helps, yeah. It givesyou a bit of a logic structure. Okay.
Certainly that's what it didfor me. Okay. But the problem we
(11:40):
have in business today ispeople think that's the end result
as opposed to believing thatit's a means to an end. And there
are other things, okay. Thatare more important. Like they don't,
they don't teach the onlystatement at university, and yet
it was instrumental in drivingbusiness success to a billion dollars.
(12:00):
Well, I'm the only one thatwrites about it because it worked
for me and I created it. Andsome people don't believe it, by
the way, but, you know, it'sbeen proven over and over and over
again. And so, I mean, theproblem I have is the learning process,
of course, is important. AndI'm not denigrating, I'm just saying,
okay, good for you. Now let'stake on some new knowledge. Okay.
(12:24):
Stuff that actually works inthe real world. Because when you
tell me that your set ofassumptions are wrong, I look at
you and my eyes glaze over andI go, what is that what you're spending
time on trying to legitimizeand prove your assumptions? When
you should be out figuring outhow frontline people can execute
(12:46):
your imprecise vision. Andbetter, you should be figuring out
how to cleanse the inside ofyour organization from friction that
prevents value delivery.That's what you should be doing.
But instead you're trying todo enough more studies on your assumptions.
I mean, help me. Right, right.
(13:07):
It's crazy actually. You know,it's amazing what people will be
doing and the analysis thatthey are trying to do to actually
move their business. But Iwant to actually go back to this
statement. Well, two things.Number one is. And I'm going to go
back because first of all, Ilove this, that that statement, the
only ones statement that is.It really is the, the, the. To me,
(13:33):
I look at that as thequintessential where you've taken
the, you know, you, you canuse that to embody the core values
that you want to have withinyour company. But you're the, you
know that your company or yourbusiness is the only one who, as
you said, either does whateveryou're going to do or helps our customers
(13:56):
feel a certain way. You know,there's so many great ways to use
that as the differentiatorbetween you and what you want to
do and a competitor. Iabsolutely love that.
Well, look at it. It's notabout what you want to do. It's not
about what you think you have.It's not about what you think your
(14:19):
core strengths are. Okay. Ifyou follow the process, okay? And
I'm mindless about this, youhave to follow the. There are no
shortcuts. And so the part ofthe process is all about defining
the customer groups that youwant to serve and getting a deep
understanding as to what theycrave. It's not what you think you
can do for them, it's whatthey crave. And now the question
(14:43):
says, how can you play intothe cravings in a way that no one
else does? So the cravingsbasically drive your definition.
Let me give you an example. Ijust did an engagement with a company
that thought they were in thelawn cutting business. They thought
(15:03):
they were in the landscapingspace. And you call them homeowners
associations. In Canada, wecall them Strata corporations. We
did a. They were doing workfor them and they were having difficulties
because there was socompetitive. They were losing business,
they weren't growing. And sothey came to me and asked them. So
I took them through thisprocess. Okay. When we got to talking
(15:26):
about who you want to serve,we got them to focus on, in your
case, homeowners associations.And then the next question is, what
do they crave? Well, that wasan interesting conversation. They
didn't crave lawn cutting,they didn't crave painting. What
they craved was a single pointof contact that was available to
(15:48):
the Strata council or thehomeowners association council 24
by 7. And they needed a broadrange of services from that single
point of contact. Okay. It hadnothing to do with what the company
thought they were good at. Ithad to do with cravings drives, the
formulation of the only state.And so we came up with this only
(16:10):
statement, which I thought wasthe coolest thing. I finally got
them to it. I knew what it wasbefore we started, but we had to
let them kind of.
You have to let them getthere, right? They have to. They
have to buy. They have to buyinto it. Right?
I know, I know. And so. Sothis is. This is what they came up.
This company only statementwas that they are the only service
(16:30):
partner who delivers tailoredproperty development solutions for
homeowners associations.Property development solutions, right.
In other words, that empoweredthem. Right. To go beyond what they
were now doing. Now, propertydevelopment needs to be explained.
(16:51):
And part of the process, Icall it unpacking. The only statement
is to define what you mean bythese various phrases and words,
because unless you explainthem, it's hard to get people to
understand. But what this didis it Allowed them through the partner
network that they had topackage deals that involved lawn
(17:12):
cutting and painting and sewermaintenance and road. Road cleaning
in the winters. You know, allthis kind of stuff. And I know the
CEO very well, and I keep intouch with him. I says, how's it
going, Matt? He goes, oh, myGod, you wouldn't believe it. I said,
are you the only one that doeswhat you do? And he says, yeah, and
it's becoming a problem. I'mgetting so much business.
(17:35):
That's good, right? Right.
So the point here is, don'tstart off with what you think you
are, because that's basicallynarcissism. That's a narcissistic
view of differentiation, andthat's a huge problem today. Be guided
and comforted by the cravingsthat you define. And that's where
I want you to spend your work.Do you really understand what they
(17:57):
crave? What are the emotionaltriggers that that client group,
okay, have when making atransaction or engagement decision?
That's the space that you haveto go to, and that's what informs
the construction of the only statement.
Okay? So now my question toyou is, because I love this. I absolutely
love it. So have youformulated a set of questions or
(18:20):
a rough outline as to what.What people need to ask of their
customers so they can pull outthe craving?
Well, yeah. Yes and no. Imean, have I formulated a workbook?
No. Okay. What I try to do isimpress upon them what it means and
(18:46):
the intent and suggest thatthey go talk to these customers.
Go have a conversation, and beguided by the conversation. Like,
you. Don't walk out and say,jacqueline, sorry. What do you crave?
What do you desire? What doyou lust for? What is your absolute
unbelief?
A Reuben sandwich right now.
Just kidding. Well, so whatwe're going to try and do is package
(19:07):
the Reuben into the serviceexperience. You know, but a lot of
these people don't. Don'ttalk. Okay? And so the leaders that
I talk to and the process issimple. I just get the. The leadership
team for that business in aroom, and we create the strategy.
We don't have subject matterexperts. We don't have data mongers
with AI tools crunching data.It's like the leaders in the room.
(19:30):
All right? What you need to dois. And you got 10 minutes to think
about it, because, look,you're always going to be wrong.
This is a world ofimprecision, not a world of precision.
Tell me what you think. It'syour business. Tell me what you think.
Your customers Thosehomeowners associations crave at
(19:53):
the end of the day what keepsthem awake at night. And maybe this
is part of the workbook thing.What keeps them awake at night. Do
you know? I think you do.Let's just play with that. And what
came out of the conversationwas, yeah, single point of contact,
constant availability, followup, simple stuff. Not. It's the stuff
(20:15):
that makes you angry wheneveryou deal with a business today anyways.
Right. Try calling a callcenter and tell me if that was a
delightful experience or itjust pissed you off. Well, I, you
can tell the effect on me. Imean, and yet, and yet, tell me about
the, the FAQ AI algorithms.Okay. Who claim to provide better
customer service. Don't thinkso. And so let's be reasonable. Let's.
(20:41):
Let's first of all understandwhat we mean by desires and separate
that from needs. And so wehave a good conversation about that.
And then, then I just probethem. I just probe them. And, and.
But the other point I want tomake to you, it's a draft. The only
statement is always a draft.The reason for that is, is how can
(21:04):
anything be permanent in aworld that's changing so fast? How
can anything be permanent in aworld where customers cravings right.
And change? So you have topick what you think is just about
right. I call it just aboutright planning. And check out my
blog, there's a ton of stuffon my website about getting it just
(21:27):
about right. And startexecuting learn on the run. I call
it planning on the run. Justlearn as you go and adjust. Learn
as adjust.
You know, it's actually you.So you and I have a very similar
philosophy. I, I call itmeasure, monitor and adjust. We're
always measuring andmonitoring and adjusting. And that
you always have to evolve,whatever that statement is. But there's
(21:48):
two things that, that are.That I think that really come out
of. Also what you're sayingis, I mean, obviously, you know,
nothing set in stone. Youalways have to be able to be nimble
and be able to, you know,learn number one. But number two
is that you have to also be incontact with your customer and to
listen to them and askquestions of them because you won't
(22:08):
know what they're cravingunless you actually ask. I mean,
you can assume, but you knowwhat that word does. Right. So, you
know, so we don't want to do,we don't want to assume that, but
you to know what that is, youhave to open your mouth.
Yeah. So part of it for me iswhat I did, and it worked. Like a
(22:28):
dam is. I made it a necessaryingredient of the performance management
process. Okay, so let me giveyou an example. Salespeople were
held accountable to not justsell. And I completely redid that,
because flogging products isnot the way to unstoppable success.
It's short term at best, andit's just another expression of supply
(22:50):
driven narcissism. So I justdidn't do it. I completely revamped
the sales process. Well, oneof the things that they were measured
on is, is I call them gaining,learning customer secrets. A secret
is something, as you know,that you don't tell very many people.
Right. You reserve yoursecrets for people you trust. Right.
(23:13):
All right, so now we'regetting somewhere. So what I wanted
is I wanted these salespeopleto have intimate relationships with
their clients. Now, I knowthat sounds kind of weird, but the
reality is that's what Iwanted them to do. I wanted. And.
And the return for that wasfigure out what. And I called them
secrets. Cravings. Figure itout. And they were held accountable.
(23:34):
I would go in the workplaceand I'd say, okay, let's keep this
simple. I want you to have acravings manual on your customers.
Okay. So I'd call you in,Jaclyn. I'd say, hey, Jaclyn, let
me see your manual. Well, thefirst few times you didn't have a
manual, but after a while, youhad a manual. Was it perfect? I don't
know. Probably not. But thereality is you spent time probing,
(24:00):
getting to know the client.Right. And recording. And that's
the important thing. It's notabout making friends. It's not. It's
about getting information thatyou can use. Again, going back to
my context, that you can usestrategically, right. To. To win
business and grow revenues.Because make no mistake, at the end
(24:21):
of the day, that's what we asleaders are paid to do. We're not
paid to make friends. We'repaid to get the right levers in place
to drive top line revenues. Atleast I was. And I was paid on the
basis of that, as waseverybody on my team. And so figuring
out a way to integrate thesethings into established systems was
(24:44):
key. And so the performancemanagement system for me was. Was
brilliant because I justintegrated it all there.
And.
And walking through theworkplace at first was kind of awkward
some, for some people. When Iasked them, I mean, even in audit.
Okay, Audit.
Right.
Has clients, their internalcustomers. Right. When I'd ask them
to see their. Their cravingsmanual, first of all, they didn't
(25:09):
believe I would ever do it.But it only took once to ask the
question. And then suddenlythey started thinking about, okay,
who are my internal clients?What makes them happy? What triggers
emotion?
Wow.
I mean, that's strategic ashell, right? I mean, I guess I'm
just thinking about it. Right.
So. So I'm. I'm curious. Sowhere did this all come from for
(25:32):
you?
Well, first of all, I'm a. I'ma weird guy, right?
I love it.
I. I'm guided. I have a. Ihave my leadership philosophy. If
you want to put a tag on it isleadership by serving around. It's
my own tag. It's notleadership by management. Management
(25:54):
by wandering around, like, it.Like a lot of people. It's not about
servant leadership. It's aspin on that. It's leadership by
serving around. It's all basedon embedding yourself with people
and asking the question, howcan I help? Okay, how can I help?
The strategy is to unblockthings that are impeding what execution?
(26:18):
So it's mindless. So what Iwanted to know is, okay, walking
through marketing, wanderingthrough. Through sales or wherever.
Okay, how can I help you? If Ican figure out a way to connect at
that level, people are happybecause their jobs are easier. And
I'm happy because what I callviscosity of the value delivery system
(26:42):
goes up, which means inputsversus output process is effectively
improved, and the customergets value quicker. And how is that
translated? Oh, yeah,revenues. Yeah, revenues. And so
I tried a lot of things. I wasone of these guys that was. I tried
(27:03):
stuff, right? I listened topeople, and I would try and kind
of like, turn it into a biggerconcept. So when people talk to me
about the inability to recruitthe right people, I start thinking
about recruitment generallyand how can I hire people that actually
care about human beings asopposed to floggers, Right. People
(27:24):
who actually were born withthis I love humans gene. And why
is that important? Becausecustomer relationships are all about
caring. Right? And so that'swhere the hiring for Goosebumps came.
Because it occurred to me thatit's all about learning, getting
inside your head and you're.And finding out the experiences you
had where you actually caredabout someone else. And I would say
(27:47):
to you, I'd say, jacqueline,look at. Do you love people? And
of course you would. And Iwould took. I took part in interviews
all the time. So you got thepresident of the company in a panel
interview with people who areapplying for a customer service job.
Yeah, that was intimidating,but it also carried the message,
this is Important, right? SoI'd say, oh, yeah. Do you love people?
(28:08):
And of course you would say,of course, Roy. Yeah, I do. So then
I would then say, okay,Jaclyn, tell me a story that would
show me how much you lovedpeople. And this is what separated
the wheat from the chaff,okay? Because the people that were
playing a mind game with megave me a terrible, superficial story
that left me feeling like afish, and I escorted them out. But
(28:31):
the people, okay, that reallydid believe it and have the ability
would give me a story that wasrich in emotion and caring. Gave
me goosebumps. That's wherethe title came from. Hire. I hire
that person. And if I had toteach them the job, I did. Because
you can't teach people to lovehumans. You can't. You can teach
(28:54):
them to smile. Hi. And we allknow what that's called, right?
Right.
So the grinning thing. But youcan't teach them to love humans.
And so a lot of those things Ijust tried, okay? Just like killing
Dumb Rules. Killing Dumb Ruleswas. Was a really good program, and
it totally cleansed the insideof the organization. And the idea
(29:17):
was simple. Get rid of thethings that piss customers off. And
don't tell me that you don'thave any of those rules, because
you do.
Oh, gosh.
Right. Rules. Competitions.And, oh, we had so much fun in the
workplace. And so I juststarted doing stuff like that, and
it grew. And you know what?Eventually, eventually other people,
(29:40):
like my direct report team,they started coming up with the weird
stuff, too. And so it. Just.Because it was like a virus, but
a good virus that spread. And,you know, eventually we got to a
billion.
So, Roy, I mean, a lot of it,you know, things that you are sharing,
(30:01):
it's. There's something thatyou have done that I also really
want to make sure everybodyunderstands. You use these things
that are on the side of yourhead. They're called ears, and they.
You really listen. It's not.It wasn't you. It wasn't you trying
(30:23):
to pontificate something thatyou've read onto other people. But
in actuality, it was youlistening to other people so that
you could create the thingsthat were going to make that team
sing and work well together orwhat was going to help bring out
the best in other people,which is so important. And, you know,
(30:47):
just even hear you talk about,you know, interviewing. Right. You
know, telling the story about,you know, caring for somebody else
or some, like, something thatshows that you. That you care something
about the character. And. Andyou said this. You can Train somebody.
And it's. I think this isreally quintessential. You cannot
(31:10):
teach character or values. Youcan train somebody for a job, but
you can't train them on thecharacter or the values that they
have. And if those valuesdon't and their character does not
align with what you want as acompany or what, you know, the. That's
(31:31):
going to align with that. Theonly ones whose statement that you've
come up with, they're not, right?
Absolutely. Absolutely. You.You. I mean, the reality is true
differentiation, okay, in theworld is created by caring, okay?
You take whatever product youwant. I don't care what it is. I
(31:53):
don't care what the technologyplatform is. I don't care about any
of that, okay? If you don'thave a culture, okay, of people that
actually give a damn abouthuman beings, you will not be successful,
okay? People will go and findpeople that they like to do business
with. You have to like andwant and desire to do business with
(32:15):
you if you're going to beunstoppable, okay? So there's a huge
part of that. And for me, itwas a matter of defining a culture
and value set around thatprinciple. I mean, a lot of people
call it heart led, blah, blah,blah. It's not heart led because
sometimes people get caught upin that. And as that's the end result.
(32:39):
No, it's not the end result.It's how can I use heart lead to
drive revenues, right? Andthat gets lost. And I have to keep
repeating that. By the way,it's not about being different for
the sake of being different.It's about being different in a way
other people care about,right? So it's like I'd say to people,
like, I really don't careabout the color of your hair. I don't
(32:59):
care about your pronouns. Idon't care about any of that stuff.
Because if you want to definethat as be different, get out. That's
not what I'm talking about. Iwant to know what you are going to
do that is super special andunique in a way that other people
care about. I want you not tobe a narcissist. And it's so hard
these days. It's so hard. Imean, we have a population of narcissists
(33:24):
and they're being taught. Imean, just check TikTok out, for
God's sake. I mean, it's crazyanyways. I just. That says woof woof.
You know, you got to get backto some basics. Let's exist. We exist
to serve Others. That's whatbusiness is all about. You want to
be unstoppable. You be thebest server in the world. All right?
(33:47):
Be that, be the only serverthat does something. Oh, this is
good. I could actually write acouple blog articles about. You're
doing a nice job pulling stuffout of me here.
That's good. I love it. Butthat's so true. It's like, yeah.
You know, and I, and you thinkabout what differentiates. Like,
you know, I always say thegood, the bad and the ugly. Right.
It's like, what's going todifferentiate? It's like how you
(34:08):
ended up making somebody elsefeel if you can. And if, at the end
of the day, it's, you know, tome, it's like, okay, I, I can't wait
to find, let's just say thecredit card company that goes back
to using phones and havingpeople answer the phone on the first
call. Oh, my God. Because asyou said, like, you know, I'm that
(34:31):
person.
I'm like, oh, right.
You know, like, and unlessthere's, I'm like, making the face
of like and trying to, like,go operator, operator, operator or
representative, represent. Imean, oh, we, we all, none of us
like it. Nobody likes it.
It's terrible. It's terrible.
Likes it.
Yeah.
But yet it's, like, becomethis norm thing. And so I, I, I have
(34:54):
become that. I've made thistendency, like, anytime I'm picking
up the phone to call somebodyor to call a, a company or something
like that, and I'm, you know,to walk through something. By the
time I get to them, I alwayshave to stop myself and say, I am
so sorry, but I hate yoursystem. And I have to say this because
otherwise I'm going to be acomplete ass. And I don't want to
(35:16):
be an ass because that's notwho I am. But I feel sorry for you
because I'm sure people justwant to get to you and they have
to go through whatever. Oh,and by the way.
Yeah, it's, you know, it's,it's. Yeah. My diagnosis is that
people talk about serving,okay, but they behave in terms of
(35:39):
cost management. And so allyou're running into is the classic,
yeah, I mean, I really want toexceed expectations, but it comes
with a price tag, and I'mgoing to manage the hell out of the
cost. I mean, why do you thinkpeople are using or outsourcing call
centers all over the world?It's because unit costs are lower.
And then they try, they tryand fool us by saying, you know,
(36:02):
we exist to serve customers.There's one person that I know of
or that I knew of, guy by thename of Tony Shea, who was the CEO
of a company in Las Vegas.Unfortunately, he's no longer with
us, but he set up a companywith a call center and he called
it a loyalty center. Okay. Andeverybody thought that. He wrote
(36:23):
several books around thiswhole notion of delivering Zappos,
that was a company. Hedelivered. He would deliver service
through this call center,which he called Delivering Happiness
and a loyalty center. And sothe objective was really simple.
It would dazzle the customer.My words. He had different words
and everybody thought he wascrazy. Well, guess what? Eventually
(36:45):
Zappos to Bezos in Amazon fora billion dollars. So if you want
to talk about monetization ofthe whole notion of happiness and
caring, there's an example,right? But nobody does that. He's
the only example. Everybodytalks about having a custom, a call
center that cares about, youknow, an experience with customers,
but it's all bullshit. Theydon't do that. And I. My gimmick
(37:10):
is different because I knowexactly where you're coming from
with that. Because they havethe power, right? If you don't treat
these reps right, you're goingto be done and you're going to have
to go through it again. So my,my phrase is, thanks for taking my
call. And I just leave it atthat and go on, right? Because they
know, like, frontline people,frontline people want to serve you.
(37:31):
They want you to be happy.It's not their fault. It's a leadership
issue. And so I try. But we'retalking about. We're talking about
differentials and so forth.And, and one of the things I love
to talk about on podcasts isthis, is this whole notion of brand
promises. Because that tendsto be the tool these days, right,
(37:52):
that people are taught to useto express themselves as being unique.
So let me give you an exampleof a couple of brand promises that
I just think are hilarious.Here's the first one. This company
claims they are the earth'smost customer centric company. So
the brand promise is they willbe. They are the most customer centric
(38:17):
company on the earth. Howbelievable is that? How about this
one? This one is the world'smost refreshing beer. So these companies
actually believe that thesepromises create a unique differential
(38:37):
experience in the minds ofcustomers. And it's a joke, but this
is what they're being taught.This is the kind of like opposite
perspective to the onlystatement. What this says is, it's
first of all, it'snarcissistic as hell. And secondly,
it shows you it's based onaspirations. I'm not saying that
aspirations have no value.They do. But not in a competitive
(38:59):
claim. You want to be reallyspecific to cravings, etc to say
that you're the Earth's mostcustomer centric company. Come on.
I mean, who's going to believethat? I'm not even going to tell
you who it is. You. You will.You would. Okay, just go and Google
after brand promises,examples, and you'll find this one
(39:19):
and you'll, you'll gigglebecause it's, it's kind of funny.
And, and this other one is, iskind of neat. It's the most reliably
familiar dining experienceanywhere on Earth. Again, very, very
famous company. So this is theissue out there. And unfortunately,
(39:41):
the people that suffer fromthinking like that are customers.
People like you and I whoseexpectations are raised. This is
going to be the mostwonderfully consistent experience
on the planet. And we go inand we're disappointed and we go,
huh, Shame on them. Shame onthem. The only statement is my solution
(40:03):
to cutting through thatbecause that's not the space we play.
We are led by cravings anddriven to stand alone. Oh, never
said that before. That's agood quote. I would normally ask
you to text it to me becauseI'll forget it when.
No, but guess what? I'll giveyou the recording of this and so
you'll actually know it. So.
(40:24):
But that's, you know, so.
Yeah, but it's, it's. Rory, Icould talk to you for hours about
this. And, and, and it'smaking me even think about, you know,
and, and it could actually bea whole different subject, which
is, you know, the, the wholesurvey, survey culture that's come
out. Oh, we need to get yoursurvey of, of the service, of how
(40:46):
well we did. And then youactually pay the employee based on
the survey that you got. Sothe employee says, please make sure
that you give me a, a five oryou know, out of one out of five
so I can get paid properly. Imean, like back ass word. Right?
You know, that's a whole lotof cultural thing.
I mean, that's, that's. Again,it's not their fault.
(41:07):
No, not their fault, butagain. But the top leadership, like,
it's really that I.
What we want to know is, andthis is because people are driven
to behave that way with us ascustomers, is because they're afraid,
okay, They've been punished,okay, by leadership, by getting Certain
(41:27):
numbers, as opposed to coachedto do better. And so it all comes
back. It all comes back tothose people who are trying to lead
from their office, who havenever talked to customers, don't
talk to employees. Theyactually think the frontline people
are at the bottom of theorganization as opposed to the top.
I mean, it's like all of thatstuff and unfortunately it translates
(41:52):
into behaviors like that thatare being exhibited and. And it's
simply not their fault, notthe individual's fault.
Right, right. It's not. Yeah,it's crazy. All right, so Roy, tell
our listeners how they can getmore of you, learn more about you,
connect with you, hire you ifthey want to. So they can. You can
(42:13):
help them with their statement.
Sure. Well, I've got awebsite, be different or Be dead
dot com. So go and check itout. I blog very, very regularly
on my stuff around Bedifferent or be Dead. And check out
the blog. And pleasesubscribe. You want to know more
(42:34):
about hiring for Goosebumps orkilling dumb rules or strategic game
planning, go to the blog.There's also I try and make the blog
as detailed as I can. Andyeah, sometimes I repeat because
people learn different ways.And so I'm trying to be flexible
enough to do that. You'll alsofind a page on my seven books describes
what they are. And you cancheck that out. I've got on my homepage
(42:58):
actually my podcast, which iscalled Audacious Moves to a Billion.
It's actually embedded in thehomepage, so you can check that out
if you want. And I think myfavorite part of my website is my
quiz. So is it be different orbe dead quiz? Right. If you could
check that out. It's intendedto have people do a self assessment
as to where they sit on the bedifferent or be dead continuum. Are
(43:22):
they claptrap and narcissistsor are they really be different and
starting to think aboutcravings and that differentiation
piece. And it's kind of fun.You get to rate yourself and the
machine calculates yournumber. You can do that individually,
you can do that with yourteam. It's kind of fun. It's kind
of team building. So you cancheck that out. And recently I just
(43:46):
introduced a new part of myblog called Standalone Saturday.
So this whole idea is justtake a real laser focus on differentiation
and I'm calling it Standalone.Okay. And using that as the theme.
So it talks about why it'simportant, what are the sorts of
things that you can do. Andit's strong language. Right. It's
(44:07):
hard hitting, right. Itcondemns you if you're a part of
a crowd. I mean, I just callyou out, right? We'll see how that
works out. So you can checkthat out. And lastly, yeah, lastly,
I have a, I have a email.Roy.osingmail.com and to your point
about only statements, it's.It's just simply my way of saying
(44:29):
I'm, I'm here, I'm here foryou. If you have a question, if I
can help you anyway, pleasejust reach out and I'd be happy to
do that. And so, yeah, I getpeople saying, hey, Roy, I heard
you on blah blah, and here'smy draft only statement. What do
you think? That a wonderfulquestion. And so I use that as a
way to kind of like developrelationships, extend my tribe and
(44:53):
hopefully eventually we make adifference. Helping people think
differently. Get out of thecrowd, get out of the herd. You know,
be special in a way that otherpeople care about. Put the textbook
down, all those kinds ofthings that I talk about.
That's awesome. I absolutelylove it. So, listeners, I am sure
you have gotten a lot out ofthis podcast and are on your way
(45:17):
to unstoppable success. I'myour host, Chaplain Scher. Please
do me the favor. Go to OliveRoy's, his website.
(46:06):
I think I've lost you.
Sa.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.