October 7, 2025 • 26 mins
Today, we dive into the fascinating intersection of music and leadership with Mike Brenner, CEO of Right Chord Leadership. Mike shares his unique perspective on how collaboration and communication in leadership mimic the harmony found in music. With over two decades of experience, he emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and understanding the "chords" we play as leaders. By exploring the chords model—Communication, Harmony, Ownership, Respect, Direction, and Support—he demonstrates how these elements can enhance teamwork and engagement in any organization. Join us as we unravel how striking the right chord can transform your leadership journey and foster a more inclusive workplace.
A captivating discussion unfolds as Mike Brenner, the CEO of Right Chord Leadership, shares his unique approach to leadership, which harmoniously intertwines his extensive experience as an international leadership consultant with his passion for music. The conversation kicks off with Mike reflecting on his two-decade journey in leadership consulting and 35 years in music, emphasizing how collaboration and communication are central to effective leadership. He unveils his innovative chords model, which underscores the importance of communication, harmony, ownership, respect, direction, and support in fostering successful teams. Listeners are invited to consider how the principles of music can enhance their leadership practices, striking a chord that resonates throughout the episode.
As the dialogue deepens, Mike recounts the pivotal moment that led him to blend his two passions—music and leadership. It was a casual conversation with a colleague that sparked the idea of integrating his musical background into leadership training. He discusses the skepticism he faced regarding the relevance of music in a business context but affirms that authenticity and genuine passion can create profound connections. The episode challenges listeners to rethink conventional leadership models and adapt a more dynamic, jazz-like approach to managing teams, emphasizing the importance of improvisation and agility in modern organizations.
The episode wraps up with reflections on emotional intelligence and self-awareness as foundational skills for leaders. Mike shares insightful anecdotes from his workshops, illustrating how deep listening and empathy can transform workplace dynamics. With a call to action to explore one’s own 'chords,' listeners are encouraged to consider how their energy and presence impact their teams. This episode is not just a discussion but a melodic journey that inspires leaders to find their rhythm in the workplace, ultimately creating a harmonious organizational culture.
Takeaways:
- Mike Brenner combines his passion for music with leadership to inspire teams effectively.
- Listening deeply is crucial for leaders, as it fosters understanding and collaboration.
- Self-awareness is essential for leaders to recognize the impact of their actions on teams.
- The 'chords' model highlights communication, harmony, and support as key leadership elements.
- Emerging leaders often lack interpersonal skills that are not taught in school.
- Great leaders continuously reflect on their actions to improve and adapt their strategies.
Links referenced in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:41):
Well, hello, everybody, andwelcome to another amazing episode
of our great podcast.
So I am your host, JacquelineStrominger, and I have the amazing
privilege to welcome todayMike Brenner.
He is an amazing human, andlet me tell you a little bit about
about him.
(01:01):
So he is the CEO of Right CordLeadership, which seamlessly blends
his extensive experience as aninternational leadership consultant
and professional musician toinspire and educate leaders and their
teams.
With over two decades inleadership consulting and 35 years
in music, Mike's uniqueapproach grounded in the belief that
(01:23):
when people work in harmony,great things happen.
He emphasizes the power ofcollaboration and communication.
And through his chords modeland innovative workshops, he partners
with top organizations toenhance employee engagement, reduce
turnover, which is so huge,and foster inclusive environments,
(01:44):
demonstrating the profoundconnection between musical harmony
and effective leadership.
So welcome to the podcast, Mike.
So glad to have you here.
I'm delighted to be here, Jaclyn.
I'm looking forward to havingthis conversation with you.
Thanks for inviting me.
Yeah.
So you know, Mike, music is soimportant, and the this I love how
(02:10):
what you are doing is bringingmusic and leadership kind of together.
Like, that's a huge combination.
And so we shared a little bit beforehand.
How did you have.
And how did this aha.
Moment to bring the two come together?
That's a great question, Jacqueline.
So I've been playing musicsince fourth grade, which was, let's
(02:32):
just say, a long time ago.
And I've been playingprofessionally since I was a teenager,
so that's many, many decades.
And I've also been a trainer,facilitator, organizational development
consultant, working withleaders and teams for about 25 years
now.
I pivoted out of advertisingand got into learning and development.
(02:53):
So that was around the turn ofthe millennium.
But it wasn't until about adecade ago where I saw the possibility
of blending those two worldsin a way that was not only satisfying
to me as a practitioner, butcould also bring this content to
people in a way that wasperhaps a little unique and a little
different than what they had seen.
(03:14):
And to make a long story muchshorter, it came together from a
conversation I had with afriend and colleague who asked me,
well, Mike, what do you thinkdifferentiates you in the marketplace
from all the other consultantsand trainers and.
And coaches out there?
And I said, gee, I don'treally know.
That was my.
Actually my initial answer.
(03:35):
And he said, that's not a verygood answer, Mike.
And he was right about that.
He said, yeah, but dig alittle deeper.
And so I started to talk aboutmy love of music and how I've been
playing music for decades andmusic is a big passion of mine.
And he stopped me and he said,you know, if you could see your face
right now as you talk aboutyour love of music, you would.
You would see just howenthusiastic you are about it.
(03:57):
And he said, I think you'veanswered your own question.
I think what you shouldconsider doing is blending your love
and passion and background asa musician with your background and
expertise in leadershipdevelopment and team building and
organizations and things like that.
And that was really theepiphany that was the moment.
And interestingly, the way wealways kind of look for what's wrong
(04:20):
with an idea before weconsider what may be right with an
idea.
I said to him, well, what ifpeople feel that the music piece
is sort of superfluous orfrivolous or, you know, just seems
kind of gimmicky?
And he said, well, you know,there's always going to be people
out there who don't resonatewith whatever it is you're doing,
but if you.
If you create something thatis authentic and that has your genuine
(04:43):
passion behind it, I guaranteeyou that people will connect to it.
And he was right.
And it's served me, you know,very well since then.
And I just really enjoytalking about music in the context
of books, business, in thecontext of leaders, and in the context
of organizations.
People seem to really.
They get it.
They really get it.
(05:04):
No pun intended.
It strikes a chord.
Yes, exactly.
Once.
Once I decided to go downthat, that.
That pathway, I started tothink of all the.
The different phrases and.
And words that could, youknow, I could use to.
To build this brand.
And I hit upon that familiarphrase, strike the right chord, and
(05:27):
I realized that you can strikethe right chord in a musical context,
and you can strike the rightchord in a leadership context.
And then that just gotshortened to right chord leadership,
and everything kind of flowedfrom there.
Yep.
So we'll talk about rightcourt leadership in a second.
But I just have to sharebecause I always think about the
conductor.
Right.
And I've actually shared thiswith, you know, other people as well,
(05:51):
which is, you know, the leaderin the business is really just like
the conductor.
They need to bring out theright, no pun, like, right notes
to make it all come together.
And some people will play,like, play louder at different times
than others, but they stillcollectively work together as a team
(06:13):
to create a beautiful sound.
Yeah, 100%.
So, I mean, I was firstexposed to the notion of leader as
conductor in graduate school,and I Mean, I love classical music.
I grew up on classical music,and I still listen to a lot of classical
music.
But when I was introduced tojazz when I was in fourth grade,
(06:36):
because it was all classical,classical, classical.
And then in, well, actuallyseventh grade.
Not fourth grade, seventh grade.
I'd been playing clarinetsince fourth grade.
And my band instructor said,hey, let me put on some jazz for
you.
And I said, what now?
What are you going to play for me?
And he put on an old MilesDavis record.
I was like, what is this?
(06:57):
You mean he's making that upas he goes along?
There's no sheet music.
He goes, yeah, that's called improvisation.
And what I realized over theyears, and even more so now, for
me at least, organizationsseem to be more like jazz ensembles
than orchestras.
(07:17):
And I've had this debate, andthe conductor, orchestra metaphor
absolutely has merit.
But I find that organizationsare messy and organizations, we're
not reading from a piece ofsheet music, we're often improvising.
Despite all the strategizingwe might, things happen, unexpected.
(07:38):
And so the agility and, andability to pivot like a jazz ensemble,
I always felt was more akin toa modern organization than even an
orchestra, where it's aboutprecision and it's about, you know,
playing the note that thecomposer intended.
(07:58):
If the composer wrote a Bflat, you can't play a C. Right.
You gotta play jazz ensemble.
You can play virtuallyanything you want.
And it's up to your bandmatesto listen and follow and respond
empathically and be agile andwho's the soloist and who's supporting
(08:19):
the soloist.
And I just found all of thatwas really very reminiscent of the
way I tend to look at themodern organization.
And so I typically use jazzand jazz ensembles as my main metaphor,
if that makes sense.
No, it totally makes sense.
(08:39):
And actually, I think ourlisteners, I think that's a key thing
to also really think about isthat, you know, if you're thinking
from your.
From the standpoint of acompany or an organization, a lot
of times, and what you justsaid, I think is really important,
(08:59):
is that you have to be listening.
Yes.
To.
To.
In order.
In order for things to workand, and to.
To.
To meld together key as a,Even as a leader, these, these matter
the most.
Our ears.
As I'm.
If you're listening to this onthe podcast, you're not seeing me
point at my ears, but my earshave to listen.
(09:21):
Right?
Absolutely.
And Dan Goldman, one of theforefathers, pioneers of emotional
intelligence.
Right.
We all know Dr. Dan Goldman.
I often play a video of his inmy workshops where he says he's talking
about poor listening skills,which he calls like.
He calls like the common coldof leadership.
(09:44):
And that, that always cracksme up because, I mean, he's not wrong.
And that's not to.
That's not to indict, youknow, any particular leader, but
we see it all the time, this.
And I find it ironic that withthe prevalence of modern technological
devices that are intended tohelp us or facilitate communication
(10:05):
and listening.
Right.
To degrade our listening skills.
So I find that somewhat ironic.
But to go back to youroriginal point, Jacqueline, listening
is absolutely critical.
And I find that even withexperienced leaders who are often
in a hurry to sort of sharetheir own narrative or their directions
(10:26):
or their instructions orwhatever it is that they're sharing,
we often don't allow time andspace to listen adequately to the
response.
And so I'm often working withclients to really lean into that
skill, practice listening.
And the way I do that is Iplay a piece of music and I ask the
(10:46):
folks in the workshop to comeup with a title for it.
And the point of that exerciseis to say, talk to me about the quality
and level of listening thatwas required to come up with a title.
It required some very deeplistening, didn't it?
It required you to avoiddistractions in the environment and
(11:07):
focus.
Right.
Well, how often do we listenat that depth?
Typically.
And of course, the answer tothat is not very often at all.
And of course, that leads to amuch larger conversation about listening.
But, yeah, it starts with listening.
It starts with empathy.
It starts with creating aspace for people who might have different
perspectives than you andresisting the urge to discount them
(11:30):
or devalue them or dismissthem, but to be open and receptive
to them.
And all of that is, of course,covered in the book that you mentioned
earlier.
Yep.
So speaking of book.
Right.
So you have just.
You have Right.
Core leadership, and you justhave come out in April with Strike
(11:51):
Strike the Right Chord.
And so talk a little bit aboutthe book and also your program.
Sure.
So Strike the Right Core.
The subtitle is the EmergingLeader's Guide to Exceptional Performance.
The Reason why.
And more experienced leaders,I would imagine, could find value
(12:14):
in the book as well.
But it really is intentionallytargeted for developing leaders or
emerging leaders because Ifelt there was an opportunity in
the marketplace.
The more we read aboutmillennials and Gen Z entering the
workforce, and perhaps they'rewell intentioned, they're ambitious.
I know a lot of millennialsand Gen Z and contrary to some of
(12:37):
the stereotyping that goes onabout those generations, I find them
to be very, very smart, veryshrewd, very ambitious, and very
knowledgeable.
But many of them, in myexperience, sort of lack the polish,
maybe the interpersonalskills, if you will, that would allow
them to really thrive intoday's workplace.
(12:58):
And so the book is intended tosay, hey, look, let me share some
things with you that I'velearned over 25 years of doing this
that, you know, maybe theydidn't teach you in business school
or, you know, I imaginesitting across from, from an emerging
leader, having a cup of coffeeand having a very informal, casual
(13:19):
conversation aboutcommunication, about accountability,
about trust and respect, aboutemotional intelligence, and just
kind of sharing with them,hey, man, here's some things that
I think will, Will help you asyou grow and develop as a leader.
And that was sort of the.
The orientation, if you will,that I adapted, or I should say that
(13:42):
I adopted to write this book.
And then, of course, you know,I have a host of programs and workshops
and, and webinars that arebased on the different principles
and, and concepts that arediscussed in the book.
So, you know what I find?
You know, I, I love this focuson the burgeoning leader.
(14:09):
Right.
Because.
Because that, you know, I know you.
You have a master's.
I have a, you know, my degreein business.
There are certain things theydon't teach you in school.
And it's not, it's notnecessarily that they don't necessarily.
(14:32):
It's.
It's.
Sometimes it's harder to teachin a classroom versus once you're
actually in the workforce andyou're becoming the leader because
you can have scenarios, buthonestly, until you're in it.
Yes.
Yeah, that's like, that's truefor a lot of things, Jacqueline.
(14:53):
Right.
You could, you know, you couldbury your nose in textbooks and be
taught by even wonderfulprofessors in school, which I was,
and I'm sure you were, too.
But it's not until youactually find yourself in a functioning
organization with people whomay be very different from you, have
different styles, differenttemperaments, different personalities,
(15:15):
different agendas, differentgoals, different aspirations, you
got to figure all that out.
It's one thing if you've spentdecades in organizations and you
can kind of, you've learnedhow to manage all that.
But if you're a burgeoningleader, as you say, or developing
leader, emerging leader, youmay not have those fully formed skills
that you really need to be successful.
(15:37):
And so that's how I kind ofcame up with the chords model, which
you mentioned in the introduction.
So I thought about, again, away of leveraging music to foster
leadership development andteam building.
Each of the six letters in theword chords is a note, if you will,
right?
So if you play all six notes.
So C is communication, H isharmony, O is ownership, R is respect,
(16:01):
D is direction, and S is support.
The book goes into each ofthose in great depth.
But the premise is, if you'replaying all six notes as a leader
or as just an individualcontributor to a team, you're probably
experiencing a fair amount of success.
But with each fewer note thatyou play, you start to see some dysfunction
(16:22):
leak in.
And so I always say to myclients, what chords are you playing?
I mean, that is a questionI'll ask them.
And I think of the chords weplay as the energy with which we
show up at work.
The way we comport ourselves,the way we carry ourselves, the quality
of the interactions we havewith our colleagues, with our boss,
are collectively the chords we play.
(16:44):
And so I'll tell youngleaders, hey, I want you to be more
aware of the chords you playevery moment of every day because
they can make a hugedifference to your success.
And they.
They get it.
They get it.
You know, it seems to, youknow, strike a chord with them, you
know.
You know, Mike, it is soimportant that you said that.
(17:05):
And one thing that I actually,I listeners, and I also really want
you to understand this morethan anything is that asking that
question, like, what chordsare you playing?
Or, you know, and.
And how does that.
How are those chords thatyou're playing relate to the chords
that other people on the teamare playing?
(17:26):
And what.
And how are you showing up?
Because.
And I'll give an example, youknow, I have a, you know, there.
I'm just thinking about a.
A woman who's in a part of agroup that is in this company that
I also work with, and she's horrible.
(17:46):
Like, I mean, like, oh, no,but I mean, it's.
It's sad and in the sensethat, you know, because she, like,
how she shows up is negative.
She's a complainer.
There's always the excuses, right?
So.
And you almost have to say,you know, being able to say to somebody
(18:10):
like that, like, you know, orin general, like to look at yourself,
like, if you're not gettingthe results that you want either
in your work, in yourleadership, what chords are you playing?
What's the energy that you'rebringing to the table?
Are you that person that Ijust described who's like, oh, cringe.
Yeah, 100%.
(18:30):
Jacqueline and I talk aboutthat when we talk about.
Or when I talk about emotional intelligence.
One of the key dimensions ofemotional intelligence, self awareness.
Right.
Without self awareness,without an understanding of.
Yes.
What makes you tick, who youare, what your hopes, dreams, and
aspirations are.
That's one dimension of self awareness.
(18:51):
The other dimension of selfawareness is what kind of impact
are you having on the peoplearound you?
Which goes back to the whatchords are you playing?
If you lack self awareness,that's a huge liability at work.
And so what I try tounderscore with the folks I work
(19:13):
with, the clients I work with,is sometimes you gotta turn the mirror
on yourself and ask yourself,if I'm not getting the results I
want.
Maybe it's very easy to blameothers and point fingers and say,
I have the worst luck.
And we know people like that.
But it takes a courageousperson to turn the mirror and say,
maybe the chords I'm playingare holding me back or hindering
(19:36):
me in some way.
Maybe I need to play somedifferent chords to get some different
outcomes.
And that's a question which Iwill frequently pose to my clients
who are not getting where theywant to get.
And I'll say, not everybody iswilling to do the heavy lifting,
the self reflection requiredto get an increased understanding
(19:59):
of what you're doing that maybe holding you back.
I once was doing a workshopfor a group of labor and delivery
nurses who worked on the samefloor at a hospital here in Philadelphia.
And one of the nurses who hadbeen a part of the team for many,
many decades, she was like asenior nurse there, was explaining
something to me and the fullgroup that wasn't going particularly
(20:22):
well.
And I said to her, well, wouldyou consider playing some different
chords to potentially get somedifferent results?
And I'll never forget what she said.
She said, ah, I've been heresince the Liberty Bell cracked.
So she said it verydismissively and very sarcastically.
And of course everybody laughed.
But I thought about it, and ofcourse that's code for don't look
(20:46):
to me to change.
I've been here forever, andeveryone else is going to have to
work around me.
I thought to myself, gee,yeah, on the surface that's a funny
thing to say, but it's alsovery revealing of a person.
Lack of self awareness andunwillingness to maybe play some
different chords.
So, yeah, I think that's critical.
I don't know anybody, and youprobably don't either.
(21:08):
Jacqueline, who's successfulat any endeavor in life, who's not
Willing to do a little selfreflection and ask what role am I
playing either in my successor my lack of success.
To me, that's a hallmark ofanyone who ever achieves anything
worthwhile is someone who'snot afraid to do that level of self
(21:28):
reflecting.
And that's something that Ireally underscore with my clients
if they want to be not onlysuccessful at work, but successful
in life.
You know, Mike, that is, it isso true.
And I would say that I thinkthat that is something that you have
as a good leader or somebodywho has it, is embracing success
(21:55):
or has it.
The only way to get there isto be able to look inward to see.
Because in order to lookinward, if you can, if you can't
look inward, you will neverknow how you can change to be better
so that you can create more ofan impact.
You just, you have to be ableto, as you said, turn, turn the mirror
(22:17):
on yourself and say, what am I doing?
But spend that time, you know,it's really important to spend that
time to understanding who youare as a human.
What do you need to do?
And as you share with whatyou're doing is what chords am I
playing and what chords needto change to make the music that
I'm producing better and different.
(22:40):
You got it right.
Whether I'm coaching a clientor delivering training program, I
literally, I think 100% of thetime the, the event or the experience
or the conversation beginswith an exploration of self awareness.
And I'll say, you know, howwilling are you to, to do some of
(23:04):
the work I'm going to ask youto do?
Because if, if you're notgoing to sort of consider the chords
you're playing, that's fine.
But I'm, I'm, I'm not theright, you know, I'm not the right
person for you.
And that doesn't mean, youknow, we don't have to go to some,
you know, silent retreat andnot talk for a week as we examine
our inner spirit.
(23:24):
And you know, that's fine ifyou want to do that, but that, that's
not the kind of selfreflection I'm referring to.
I'm just thinking about, youknow, take, take, take some time,
you know, every day or a fewtimes a week to ask a very simple
question, which is what chordsam I playing and are they helping
or hindering my progress?
And whether you frame it,chords or any other metaphor you
(23:47):
want to use for me, it is ahallmark of any champion you talk
to, any athlete, any greatmusician, any great actor, anyone
who's great at what they do,they're always asking themselves,
what am I doing?
And is it helping or hinderingmy success and my progress?
And to me, it's just, it'sfundamental to success as a leader.
It's fundamental to success asa team contributor.
(24:07):
It's fundamental to success asa musician.
It's fundamental to success asa human being.
And that's why, really, thefirst part of the book is really
focused on emotionalintelligence, self awareness, self
management, right?
Staying calm under pressure,staying calm under stress, navigating
through difficult moments,challenging moments, social awareness,
which is about interactingwith other people with a high level
(24:30):
of empathy.
And then relationshipmanagement, which is all about trust
and so forth.
And from that foundation ofskills comes sort of the more, you
know, the more sophisticated skills.
But it all begins with that,with that emotional intelligence.
Oh, I absolutely love it.
(24:50):
You know, Mike, I love whatyou're doing.
And listeners, you know, do methe favor and go out and go get the
book.
Strike the right chord.
I'm actually going to makesure that we have a link to the book
in the show notes, but go outand get the book.
Whether you're a seasonedleader or you're just starting out
on your leadership journey, itis something that we can always take
(25:14):
the time to learn and dobetter at.
And, Mike, I think what you'redoing and what you're bringing to
the table for leaders andhelping develop leaders is so important.
So I really want to thank youfor bringing this and being a guest
on the podcast.
And again, listeners, go out,connect with Mike and do me the other
(25:35):
favor and hit subscribe.
And the best way is share thiswith your friends and colleagues
because you know that there issomebody out there that needs to
hear this message.
So thank you so much for listening.
I'm your host, Jaclyn Stranger.
And Mike, thank you so muchfor being an amazing guest.
Thank you so much, Jacqueline.
I hope we played some.
Some right chords today.
I appreciated your excellentquestions and being a guest on your
(25:58):
podcast was a lot of fun.
Thank you.
Well, hello, everybody, andwelcome to another amazing episode
of our great podcast.
So I am your host, JacquelineStrominger, and I have the amazing
privilege to welcome todayMike Brenner.
He is an amazing human, andlet me tell you a little bit about
about him.
(01:01):
So he is the CEO of Right CordLeadership, which seamlessly blends
his extensive experience as aninternational leadership consultant
and professional musician toinspire and educate leaders and their
teams.
With over two decades inleadership consulting and 35 years
in music, Mike's uniqueapproach grounded in the belief that
(01:23):
when people work in harmony,great things happen.
He emphasizes the power ofcollaboration and communication.
And through his chords modeland innovative workshops, he partners
with top organizations toenhance employee engagement, reduce
turnover, which is so huge,and foster inclusive environments,
(01:44):
demonstrating the profoundconnection between musical harmony
and effective leadership.
So welcome to the podcast, Mike.
So glad to have you here.
I'm delighted to be here, Jaclyn.
I'm looking forward to havingthis conversation with you.
Thanks for inviting me.
Yeah.
So you know, Mike, music is soimportant, and the this I love how
(02:10):
what you are doing is bringingmusic and leadership kind of together.
Like, that's a huge combination.
And so we shared a little bit beforehand.
How did you have.
And how did this aha.
Moment to bring the two come together?
That's a great question, Jacqueline.
So I've been playing musicsince fourth grade, which was, let's
(02:32):
just say, a long time ago.
And I've been playingprofessionally since I was a teenager,
so that's many, many decades.
And I've also been a trainer,facilitator, organizational development
consultant, working withleaders and teams for about 25 years
now.
I pivoted out of advertisingand got into learning and development.
(02:53):
So that was around the turn ofthe millennium.
But it wasn't until about adecade ago where I saw the possibility
of blending those two worldsin a way that was not only satisfying
to me as a practitioner, butcould also bring this content to
people in a way that wasperhaps a little unique and a little
different than what they had seen.
(03:14):
And to make a long story muchshorter, it came together from a
conversation I had with afriend and colleague who asked me,
well, Mike, what do you thinkdifferentiates you in the marketplace
from all the other consultantsand trainers and.
And coaches out there?
And I said, gee, I don'treally know.
That was my.
Actually my initial answer.
(03:35):
And he said, that's not a verygood answer, Mike.
And he was right about that.
He said, yeah, but dig alittle deeper.
And so I started to talk aboutmy love of music and how I've been
playing music for decades andmusic is a big passion of mine.
And he stopped me and he said,you know, if you could see your face
right now as you talk aboutyour love of music, you would.
You would see just howenthusiastic you are about it.
(03:57):
And he said, I think you'veanswered your own question.
I think what you shouldconsider doing is blending your love
and passion and background asa musician with your background and
expertise in leadershipdevelopment and team building and
organizations and things like that.
And that was really theepiphany that was the moment.
And interestingly, the way wealways kind of look for what's wrong
(04:20):
with an idea before weconsider what may be right with an
idea.
I said to him, well, what ifpeople feel that the music piece
is sort of superfluous orfrivolous or, you know, just seems
kind of gimmicky?
And he said, well, you know,there's always going to be people
out there who don't resonatewith whatever it is you're doing,
but if you.
If you create something thatis authentic and that has your genuine
(04:43):
passion behind it, I guaranteeyou that people will connect to it.
And he was right.
And it's served me, you know,very well since then.
And I just really enjoytalking about music in the context
of books, business, in thecontext of leaders, and in the context
of organizations.
People seem to really.
They get it.
They really get it.
(05:04):
No pun intended.
It strikes a chord.
Yes, exactly.
Once.
Once I decided to go downthat, that.
That pathway, I started tothink of all the.
The different phrases and.
And words that could, youknow, I could use to.
To build this brand.
And I hit upon that familiarphrase, strike the right chord, and
(05:27):
I realized that you can strikethe right chord in a musical context,
and you can strike the rightchord in a leadership context.
And then that just gotshortened to right chord leadership,
and everything kind of flowedfrom there.
Yep.
So we'll talk about rightcourt leadership in a second.
But I just have to sharebecause I always think about the
conductor.
Right.
And I've actually shared thiswith, you know, other people as well,
(05:51):
which is, you know, the leaderin the business is really just like
the conductor.
They need to bring out theright, no pun, like, right notes
to make it all come together.
And some people will play,like, play louder at different times
than others, but they stillcollectively work together as a team
(06:13):
to create a beautiful sound.
Yeah, 100%.
So, I mean, I was firstexposed to the notion of leader as
conductor in graduate school,and I Mean, I love classical music.
I grew up on classical music,and I still listen to a lot of classical
music.
But when I was introduced tojazz when I was in fourth grade,
(06:36):
because it was all classical,classical, classical.
And then in, well, actuallyseventh grade.
Not fourth grade, seventh grade.
I'd been playing clarinetsince fourth grade.
And my band instructor said,hey, let me put on some jazz for
you.
And I said, what now?
What are you going to play for me?
And he put on an old MilesDavis record.
I was like, what is this?
(06:57):
You mean he's making that upas he goes along?
There's no sheet music.
He goes, yeah, that's called improvisation.
And what I realized over theyears, and even more so now, for
me at least, organizationsseem to be more like jazz ensembles
than orchestras.
(07:17):
And I've had this debate, andthe conductor, orchestra metaphor
absolutely has merit.
But I find that organizationsare messy and organizations, we're
not reading from a piece ofsheet music, we're often improvising.
Despite all the strategizingwe might, things happen, unexpected.
(07:38):
And so the agility and, andability to pivot like a jazz ensemble,
I always felt was more akin toa modern organization than even an
orchestra, where it's aboutprecision and it's about, you know,
playing the note that thecomposer intended.
(07:58):
If the composer wrote a Bflat, you can't play a C. Right.
You gotta play jazz ensemble.
You can play virtuallyanything you want.
And it's up to your bandmatesto listen and follow and respond
empathically and be agile andwho's the soloist and who's supporting
(08:19):
the soloist.
And I just found all of thatwas really very reminiscent of the
way I tend to look at themodern organization.
And so I typically use jazzand jazz ensembles as my main metaphor,
if that makes sense.
No, it totally makes sense.
(08:39):
And actually, I think ourlisteners, I think that's a key thing
to also really think about isthat, you know, if you're thinking
from your.
From the standpoint of acompany or an organization, a lot
of times, and what you justsaid, I think is really important,
(08:59):
is that you have to be listening.
Yes.
To.
To.
In order.
In order for things to workand, and to.
To.
To meld together key as a,Even as a leader, these, these matter
the most.
Our ears.
As I'm.
If you're listening to this onthe podcast, you're not seeing me
point at my ears, but my earshave to listen.
(09:21):
Right?
Absolutely.
And Dan Goldman, one of theforefathers, pioneers of emotional
intelligence.
Right.
We all know Dr. Dan Goldman.
I often play a video of his inmy workshops where he says he's talking
about poor listening skills,which he calls like.
He calls like the common coldof leadership.
(09:44):
And that, that always cracksme up because, I mean, he's not wrong.
And that's not to.
That's not to indict, youknow, any particular leader, but
we see it all the time, this.
And I find it ironic that withthe prevalence of modern technological
devices that are intended tohelp us or facilitate communication
(10:05):
and listening.
Right.
To degrade our listening skills.
So I find that somewhat ironic.
But to go back to youroriginal point, Jacqueline, listening
is absolutely critical.
And I find that even withexperienced leaders who are often
in a hurry to sort of sharetheir own narrative or their directions
(10:26):
or their instructions orwhatever it is that they're sharing,
we often don't allow time andspace to listen adequately to the
response.
And so I'm often working withclients to really lean into that
skill, practice listening.
And the way I do that is Iplay a piece of music and I ask the
(10:46):
folks in the workshop to comeup with a title for it.
And the point of that exerciseis to say, talk to me about the quality
and level of listening thatwas required to come up with a title.
It required some very deeplistening, didn't it?
It required you to avoiddistractions in the environment and
(11:07):
focus.
Right.
Well, how often do we listenat that depth?
Typically.
And of course, the answer tothat is not very often at all.
And of course, that leads to amuch larger conversation about listening.
But, yeah, it starts with listening.
It starts with empathy.
It starts with creating aspace for people who might have different
perspectives than you andresisting the urge to discount them
(11:30):
or devalue them or dismissthem, but to be open and receptive
to them.
And all of that is, of course,covered in the book that you mentioned
earlier.
Yep.
So speaking of book.
Right.
So you have just.
You have Right.
Core leadership, and you justhave come out in April with Strike
(11:51):
Strike the Right Chord.
And so talk a little bit aboutthe book and also your program.
Sure.
So Strike the Right Core.
The subtitle is the EmergingLeader's Guide to Exceptional Performance.
The Reason why.
And more experienced leaders,I would imagine, could find value
(12:14):
in the book as well.
But it really is intentionallytargeted for developing leaders or
emerging leaders because Ifelt there was an opportunity in
the marketplace.
The more we read aboutmillennials and Gen Z entering the
workforce, and perhaps they'rewell intentioned, they're ambitious.
I know a lot of millennialsand Gen Z and contrary to some of
(12:37):
the stereotyping that goes onabout those generations, I find them
to be very, very smart, veryshrewd, very ambitious, and very
knowledgeable.
But many of them, in myexperience, sort of lack the polish,
maybe the interpersonalskills, if you will, that would allow
them to really thrive intoday's workplace.
(12:58):
And so the book is intended tosay, hey, look, let me share some
things with you that I'velearned over 25 years of doing this
that, you know, maybe theydidn't teach you in business school
or, you know, I imaginesitting across from, from an emerging
leader, having a cup of coffeeand having a very informal, casual
(13:19):
conversation aboutcommunication, about accountability,
about trust and respect, aboutemotional intelligence, and just
kind of sharing with them,hey, man, here's some things that
I think will, Will help you asyou grow and develop as a leader.
And that was sort of the.
The orientation, if you will,that I adapted, or I should say that
(13:42):
I adopted to write this book.
And then, of course, you know,I have a host of programs and workshops
and, and webinars that arebased on the different principles
and, and concepts that arediscussed in the book.
So, you know what I find?
You know, I, I love this focuson the burgeoning leader.
(14:09):
Right.
Because.
Because that, you know, I know you.
You have a master's.
I have a, you know, my degreein business.
There are certain things theydon't teach you in school.
And it's not, it's notnecessarily that they don't necessarily.
(14:32):
It's.
It's.
Sometimes it's harder to teachin a classroom versus once you're
actually in the workforce andyou're becoming the leader because
you can have scenarios, buthonestly, until you're in it.
Yes.
Yeah, that's like, that's truefor a lot of things, Jacqueline.
(14:53):
Right.
You could, you know, you couldbury your nose in textbooks and be
taught by even wonderfulprofessors in school, which I was,
and I'm sure you were, too.
But it's not until youactually find yourself in a functioning
organization with people whomay be very different from you, have
different styles, differenttemperaments, different personalities,
(15:15):
different agendas, differentgoals, different aspirations, you
got to figure all that out.
It's one thing if you've spentdecades in organizations and you
can kind of, you've learnedhow to manage all that.
But if you're a burgeoningleader, as you say, or developing
leader, emerging leader, youmay not have those fully formed skills
that you really need to be successful.
(15:37):
And so that's how I kind ofcame up with the chords model, which
you mentioned in the introduction.
So I thought about, again, away of leveraging music to foster
leadership development andteam building.
Each of the six letters in theword chords is a note, if you will,
right?
So if you play all six notes.
So C is communication, H isharmony, O is ownership, R is respect,
(16:01):
D is direction, and S is support.
The book goes into each ofthose in great depth.
But the premise is, if you'replaying all six notes as a leader
or as just an individualcontributor to a team, you're probably
experiencing a fair amount of success.
But with each fewer note thatyou play, you start to see some dysfunction
(16:22):
leak in.
And so I always say to myclients, what chords are you playing?
I mean, that is a questionI'll ask them.
And I think of the chords weplay as the energy with which we
show up at work.
The way we comport ourselves,the way we carry ourselves, the quality
of the interactions we havewith our colleagues, with our boss,
are collectively the chords we play.
(16:44):
And so I'll tell youngleaders, hey, I want you to be more
aware of the chords you playevery moment of every day because
they can make a hugedifference to your success.
And they.
They get it.
They get it.
You know, it seems to, youknow, strike a chord with them, you
know.
You know, Mike, it is soimportant that you said that.
(17:05):
And one thing that I actually,I listeners, and I also really want
you to understand this morethan anything is that asking that
question, like, what chordsare you playing?
Or, you know, and.
And how does that.
How are those chords thatyou're playing relate to the chords
that other people on the teamare playing?
(17:26):
And what.
And how are you showing up?
Because.
And I'll give an example, youknow, I have a, you know, there.
I'm just thinking about a.
A woman who's in a part of agroup that is in this company that
I also work with, and she's horrible.
(17:46):
Like, I mean, like, oh, no,but I mean, it's.
It's sad and in the sensethat, you know, because she, like,
how she shows up is negative.
She's a complainer.
There's always the excuses, right?
So.
And you almost have to say,you know, being able to say to somebody
(18:10):
like that, like, you know, orin general, like to look at yourself,
like, if you're not gettingthe results that you want either
in your work, in yourleadership, what chords are you playing?
What's the energy that you'rebringing to the table?
Are you that person that Ijust described who's like, oh, cringe.
Yeah, 100%.
(18:30):
Jacqueline and I talk aboutthat when we talk about.
Or when I talk about emotional intelligence.
One of the key dimensions ofemotional intelligence, self awareness.
Right.
Without self awareness,without an understanding of.
Yes.
What makes you tick, who youare, what your hopes, dreams, and
aspirations are.
That's one dimension of self awareness.
(18:51):
The other dimension of selfawareness is what kind of impact
are you having on the peoplearound you?
Which goes back to the whatchords are you playing?
If you lack self awareness,that's a huge liability at work.
And so what I try tounderscore with the folks I work
(19:13):
with, the clients I work with,is sometimes you gotta turn the mirror
on yourself and ask yourself,if I'm not getting the results I
want.
Maybe it's very easy to blameothers and point fingers and say,
I have the worst luck.
And we know people like that.
But it takes a courageousperson to turn the mirror and say,
maybe the chords I'm playingare holding me back or hindering
(19:36):
me in some way.
Maybe I need to play somedifferent chords to get some different
outcomes.
And that's a question which Iwill frequently pose to my clients
who are not getting where theywant to get.
And I'll say, not everybody iswilling to do the heavy lifting,
the self reflection requiredto get an increased understanding
(19:59):
of what you're doing that maybe holding you back.
I once was doing a workshopfor a group of labor and delivery
nurses who worked on the samefloor at a hospital here in Philadelphia.
And one of the nurses who hadbeen a part of the team for many,
many decades, she was like asenior nurse there, was explaining
something to me and the fullgroup that wasn't going particularly
(20:22):
well.
And I said to her, well, wouldyou consider playing some different
chords to potentially get somedifferent results?
And I'll never forget what she said.
She said, ah, I've been heresince the Liberty Bell cracked.
So she said it verydismissively and very sarcastically.
And of course everybody laughed.
But I thought about it, and ofcourse that's code for don't look
(20:46):
to me to change.
I've been here forever, andeveryone else is going to have to
work around me.
I thought to myself, gee,yeah, on the surface that's a funny
thing to say, but it's alsovery revealing of a person.
Lack of self awareness andunwillingness to maybe play some
different chords.
So, yeah, I think that's critical.
I don't know anybody, and youprobably don't either.
(21:08):
Jacqueline, who's successfulat any endeavor in life, who's not
Willing to do a little selfreflection and ask what role am I
playing either in my successor my lack of success.
To me, that's a hallmark ofanyone who ever achieves anything
worthwhile is someone who'snot afraid to do that level of self
(21:28):
reflecting.
And that's something that Ireally underscore with my clients
if they want to be not onlysuccessful at work, but successful
in life.
You know, Mike, that is, it isso true.
And I would say that I thinkthat that is something that you have
as a good leader or somebodywho has it, is embracing success
(21:55):
or has it.
The only way to get there isto be able to look inward to see.
Because in order to lookinward, if you can, if you can't
look inward, you will neverknow how you can change to be better
so that you can create more ofan impact.
You just, you have to be ableto, as you said, turn, turn the mirror
(22:17):
on yourself and say, what am I doing?
But spend that time, you know,it's really important to spend that
time to understanding who youare as a human.
What do you need to do?
And as you share with whatyou're doing is what chords am I
playing and what chords needto change to make the music that
I'm producing better and different.
(22:40):
You got it right.
Whether I'm coaching a clientor delivering training program, I
literally, I think 100% of thetime the, the event or the experience
or the conversation beginswith an exploration of self awareness.
And I'll say, you know, howwilling are you to, to do some of
(23:04):
the work I'm going to ask youto do?
Because if, if you're notgoing to sort of consider the chords
you're playing, that's fine.
But I'm, I'm, I'm not theright, you know, I'm not the right
person for you.
And that doesn't mean, youknow, we don't have to go to some,
you know, silent retreat andnot talk for a week as we examine
our inner spirit.
(23:24):
And you know, that's fine ifyou want to do that, but that, that's
not the kind of selfreflection I'm referring to.
I'm just thinking about, youknow, take, take, take some time,
you know, every day or a fewtimes a week to ask a very simple
question, which is what chordsam I playing and are they helping
or hindering my progress?
And whether you frame it,chords or any other metaphor you
(23:47):
want to use for me, it is ahallmark of any champion you talk
to, any athlete, any greatmusician, any great actor, anyone
who's great at what they do,they're always asking themselves,
what am I doing?
And is it helping or hinderingmy success and my progress?
And to me, it's just, it'sfundamental to success as a leader.
It's fundamental to success asa team contributor.
(24:07):
It's fundamental to success asa musician.
It's fundamental to success asa human being.
And that's why, really, thefirst part of the book is really
focused on emotionalintelligence, self awareness, self
management, right?
Staying calm under pressure,staying calm under stress, navigating
through difficult moments,challenging moments, social awareness,
which is about interactingwith other people with a high level
(24:30):
of empathy.
And then relationshipmanagement, which is all about trust
and so forth.
And from that foundation ofskills comes sort of the more, you
know, the more sophisticated skills.
But it all begins with that,with that emotional intelligence.
Oh, I absolutely love it.
(24:50):
You know, Mike, I love whatyou're doing.
And listeners, you know, do methe favor and go out and go get the
book.
Strike the right chord.
I'm actually going to makesure that we have a link to the book
in the show notes, but go outand get the book.
Whether you're a seasonedleader or you're just starting out
on your leadership journey, itis something that we can always take
(25:14):
the time to learn and dobetter at.
And, Mike, I think what you'redoing and what you're bringing to
the table for leaders andhelping develop leaders is so important.
So I really want to thank youfor bringing this and being a guest
on the podcast.
And again, listeners, go out,connect with Mike and do me the other
(25:35):
favor and hit subscribe.
And the best way is share thiswith your friends and colleagues
because you know that there issomebody out there that needs to
hear this message.
So thank you so much for listening.
I'm your host, Jaclyn Stranger.
And Mike, thank you so muchfor being an amazing guest.
Thank you so much, Jacqueline.
I hope we played some.
Some right chords today.
I appreciated your excellentquestions and being a guest on your
(25:58):
podcast was a lot of fun.
Thank you.
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