September 16, 2025 • 42 mins
Today, we dive into the essential gap between what executives are told they need to master and the actual training they receive. Our guest, the Honorable Dr. John Hillen, shares groundbreaking insights from his new book, *The Strategy Dialogue*, which reveals that only 4% of executives think strategically as a default. John emphasizes that strategy is about connecting today’s actions to tomorrow’s outcomes, much like a chess player visualizing moves ahead. We discuss how leaders can cultivate this strategic mindset not just in themselves but also in their teams, transforming ordinary meetings into powerful strategy sessions. Join us for a conversation that promises to elevate your leadership game and make you truly unstoppable!
In this engaging episode of the Unstoppable Success podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with the Honorable Dr. John Hillen, a distinguished board chairman, corporate director, and professor. John is passionate about bridging the gap between strategic thinking and practical actions within organizations. We explored the paradox of executive competencies, where leaders are often trained in technical skills but lack the tools for strategic foresight. John shared insights from his new book, 'The Strategy Dialogue,' emphasizing that only a small fraction of executives naturally think strategically. We discussed how most leaders focus on short-term goals instead of linking daily tasks to long-term vision, similar to how one would plan for success in a gym. John urged listeners to start thinking strategically in their daily routines by connecting present actions to future outcomes, thus cultivating a mindset that anticipates and plans for what lies ahead.
As we dove deeper into the conversation, John revealed that strategy is not just about setting goals; it’s about understanding the interconnectedness of various market forces. He likened strategic thinking to a game of chess, where each move must consider future possibilities. The importance of fostering a culture of strategic dialogue within organizations was highlighted, encouraging leaders to regularly integrate strategic thinking into their meetings. John shared practical tips for leaders to cultivate a strategic mindset, emphasizing the need for a collective approach to strategy that includes diverse perspectives from across the organization. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to elevate their leadership capabilities and drive their organizations toward long-term success.
Takeaways:
- Effective leadership involves understanding the gap between strategic thinking and tactical execution, which is often overlooked in training.
- Only 4% of executives naturally think strategically; the rest can develop this skill with practice and the right mindset.
- Strategy is about connecting today's actions to future outcomes, much like planning your workout to achieve fitness goals.
- Leaders need to cultivate relationships beyond their immediate team to build a robust strategic network for future opportunities.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Duke University
- Hampton Sydney College
- George Mason University
- IBM
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:41):
Well, hello everybody andwelcome to the Unstoppable Success
podcast. I am your host,Jaclyn Strominger. And on this podcast
we hear from amazing leadersand their game changing insights.
We want everybody to be betterleaders so they can be truly unstoppable
in the marketplace. And todayI have an amazing guest on and his
(01:02):
name is John Hillen. And letme just give you a little bit background
on John. So he, he is theHonorable Dr. John Hillen and he
is a board chairman, corporatedirector, and he is a popular college
professor and sought afterspeaker. In addition to his board
roles, he teaches strategy andleadership at Duke University, Hampton
(01:22):
Sydney College and in the MBAprogram at George Mason University,
which is absolutely fantastic.I absolutely love that. And currently
right now he has a new bookout called the Strategy Dialogue
and it is entertaining and hemakes strategy. John makes a strategy
actionable and understandable.And by Marshall Goldsmith, a must
(01:44):
read for anyone looking to getclarity and bring these tools to
their business. So John,welcome. As we were talking pre show,
we were talking a little bitabout how strategy is not really
talk. So I am so happy thatyou are.
Yeah. Thanks Jaclyn It's afunny thing because every executive,
no matter what they do, smallcompanies, big companies, earlier
(02:07):
in their career, later in thecareer, are always told that they
need to assemble this group ofwhat we call executive competencies,
things they need to be goodat. And there's always a category
for thinking strategically,big picture, long range, understanding
the forces that shape yourmarket. And, and yet almost all the
corporate training, by myestimation, about 80% of it is oriented
(02:31):
on giving people moretechnical and tactical skills to
get things done day to day.And so it's this gap in things we
say we must be able to masterand then things we actually train
and give people an opportunityto work on.
Yeah. So tell me like where,you know, where was the genesis?
(02:52):
Like when you were writing,like when you're thinking about the
book, I mean obviously, youknow, obviously you know that there's
this gap. So why did youdecide to write the book?
So I came across this reallyinteresting study that looked at
executives, tested thousandsof executives and asked what is their
natural acts and logic? Thisis the way they make decisions. They
(03:14):
try to win the day in themeeting, they try to get people to
come their way. Maybe they'redefending their turf if they're under
pressure and they use anatural logic. And only 4% of the
executives they testednaturally think strategically, that's
their go to move. And what Imean by that, if you say John, you
(03:34):
know this report is really dueFriday. If you're trying to talk
me into that strategically,you say, well look, you know, if
you get it to me by Friday,then I have what I need to see. We're
going to where we're going tobe at the end of the month. And if
I know we're going to be atthe end of the month, I can maybe
shape our ambitions for thequarter. And if we get to there by
the end of the quarter, I canlook at our year end. I can even
(03:56):
shape, you know, going outfurther. So you'll interconnect a
series of pieces of why thething due Friday connects to the
longer term picture. If you'veseen that movie, the Queen's Gambit,
you know, the chess player,she sees the moves on the ceiling
as she's laying in bed aheadof her matches. So it's a little
bit like that. Which is whypeople, people associate chess with
(04:17):
strategy. Only 4% of peoplenaturally try to connect today's
move to a bunch of tomorrow'soutcomes. Most executives are really
focused on short termachievement or mastering the data
or trying to give everybody alittle bit of their way. So everybody
gets, you know, some piece ofthe decision. And so that's why I
(04:39):
said, wow, only 4% are naturalstrategist. How can we put something
into the literature that helpsthe 96% find this muscle and exercise
it? Because everybody's gotthe capacity to think this way. It
just tends to be an unusedmuscle. And just like if you have
a good trainer in the gym,they'll show you how to activate
(04:59):
a muscle and then they'll showyou what machines in the gym to go
use to build it. You can dothe same thing with the strategic
part of your brain.
It's so funny as you'restudying the time, it's so true.
And it's also at the sametime, I'm thinking the gym. If you,
you know, if the end game atthe gym is to make sure that you
got big guns or whatever itis, or you want to drop 10 pounds
(05:22):
or whatever the what, whateverthat end game goal is. Right, right.
You, you work backwards. Likewhat do I need, what do I need to
do to get there? You know, andit's the same thing. And what you
were just saying about so manypeople are looking at what they have
to do today to move theneedle, but in actuality, right.
You know, we really need tolook at. If I want to be a $5 billion
(05:47):
company in five years, I needto go Backwards. And so that what
I do today is actuallybuilding on the things that I need
to do to get me to the five.
Exactly. You've nailed it.Because strategy, first of all, and
you touched on this. It's away to think, not a what to think.
(06:08):
Right. It's not some perfectoutcome. It's not a magic answer.
It's a way you interpret yoursurroundings, you process information,
and you start to put togetherplans. Those plans, those moves interconnect
and add up to where you'regoing. And so that whole journey,
that strategy, it's a completeblueprint. It's a game plan to get
(06:30):
you from one place to another.The another place should be a place
of more advantage, whetherit's growth, whether it's competitive
strength, whether it is. Itcan be. It can be a defensive move
in the marketplace, but it's aseries of things that interconnect
to get you to a place ofgreater advantage.
Okay, so here's my questionfor you. So people are listening
(06:51):
right now, right? And we'vegot leaders that are listening, and
they're like, okay, I getthis. I. I'm understanding the whole
concept. What's the firstthing that I need to do today to
think more strategically?
Yeah, well, there's, you know,in Vegas, you know, they have these
tells. Well, I always say,what's the tell of somebody thinking
strategically? They'rethinking long range, not short term.
(07:15):
They're thinking big picture,not their immediate surroundings.
You know, there are challengesthat week. They're seeking to connect
things. Analysts breakproblems down. A strategic mind weaves
everything back together.What's going on with my suppliers,
my customers, my competition,technology, the regulatory environment,
the economic environment,consumer habits. And they look at
(07:38):
the way all these ecosystemsthat affect their business interconnect.
So that's another giveaway forstrategic mind. The other thing I
found, Jaclyn, is that peoplewho are thinking strategically are
oriented towards the future,and they tend to have a different
attitude. They don't say no tothemselves. They say, if I'm going
to do that in the future, whatwould have to be true for that to
(08:02):
happen? They don't say, oh,that'll never work. They say, what
would have to be true for thatto happen? And they can start playing
with scenarios and seeing howrealistic it could be. Pros and cons.
So there's a creativity,there's an art of the possible attitude
about thinking strategically.I think those kind of characteristics
really separate strategicmind. And everybody can practice
(08:24):
this. I tell, you know,companies, I say, don't wait for
your mysterious once a yearstrategy off site. Like this is daily,
right? Because everybody hasit, right? This, this should be daily
hygiene. Like have a strategymoment in your meetings where at
the end of the meeting yousay, okay, this thing we just decided
on, everybody, let's go aroundthe room and make sure everybody
(08:45):
understands how it connects tothe big picture and the long range
plans.
Right? And I guess that's theother key question is, is as a leader,
you know, it's, is it. Do you,would you say, take a look at. And
I'm going to think about thisin the standard standpoint, almost
like from the standpoint a,from an entrepreneurial standpoint
(09:08):
where you got your solopreneurright. They still need to think.
There's thinking big instrategy, but then they also have
all the day to day. So do you,Would you say look at those. You
know, I shouldn't say, likewhat would you say to them? Like,
what are the, like what arethe, what's the way for you to think
strategically as the entrepreneur?
(09:28):
Right. Yeah. And reallyimportant. I say, you know, one of
the excuses I hear from peoplesometimes, they say, oh, I don't
need the strategy stuffbecause we're a small company or
I'm just getting started.That's a big company thing. IBM needs
a strategy. I don't. I'm like,yeah, of course you don't. I would
never want to know what theweather is. I would never want to
be prepared for it. I'm justgoing to go out every day and hope
something good happens to me.Right. And then people say, okay,
(09:50):
I get where you're going. Buteven smaller companies, and there's
a day in the life of everyentrepreneur where in the morning
they're working on the biggestdeal they've ever worked on and in
the afternoon they're fixingthe office coffee machine. Right.
That's just the life you gothrough as an entrepreneur. So I'm
a swimmer and you know, nobodyever asked me what arm I swim with.
(10:12):
I swim with both arms in bothways. And so people need to think
of it the same way. You haveto get your tactical things done.
We're paid as executives atany level to get things done. You
also have to think and planfor the future and start to put together
those pieces we talked about.These are two different parts of
the brain, quite literallyright brain, left brain in many ways.
(10:35):
And you've got to have allmuscles working. And I coach executives
actually color code on theircalendar activities that were oriented
around short Term executionand activities that were oriented
around strategic progresswhich are tend to be longer range
in nature and people can seehow their day breaks up, which meeting
(10:58):
satisfied, which kind of taskthat they're responsible for.
I actually love. It's like,you know, people talk about like
what, what's what, what bucketor what is. What shelf are, you know,
are you working on right now?Like where is that right in that,
that play, you know, somethingthat you said too, that I just, I
kind of want to go back to alittle bit. So. And we were chuckling
(11:21):
about it, about the, theyearly strategy strategic meeting,
whatever, and I can't begin tosay how many that I've been through.
And you're like, okay, why didwe even do that? Like it's like you
do it and then.
Right. Everybody comes at himis like, gosh, now I just lost two
(11:42):
days of answering my emailsbecause I've been sitting in a strategy
off site.
Right, right. And we've never,we, we actually didn't come out.
You, you talk about strategy,but what's the action plan right
now?
That, that's really important.In fact, I was doing an off site
earlier today with a companyand I said one of the most. First,
you've got to manageexpectations. Right. It's not something,
there's not like someleprechaun at the end of the strategy
(12:04):
rainbow that says, hey, here'syour magic answer. Here's your plan
for the next five years.
It's a process and your, andyour, and your bucket of gold. Right?
Right. Exactly, exactly. Soit's not that. So you know, thinking
about strategy, working onstrategy, which should always be
a collective exercise, youknow, you get the whole team in.
There is not something thatgives you, you know, this magic solution.
(12:25):
It's not pixie dust. Sothere's expectations. The other thing,
the worst thing you can do isjust let it sit. I think all executives,
all leaders need to beoriented towards action. And so you
immediately pluck out, whichis one of the things we did at the
end of the off site today,which was, okay, what can we act
on now? We know direction.We've agreed directionally where
(12:46):
we need to go. We've evenbegun to perceive and write down
some of the actual individualmoves and when they might happen
that'll pull us in thatdirection. A direction we've all
decided leads us to a betterplace, whatever better means for
your business. So let's knockit out. What low hanging fruit. What
can we do today? Let'scelebrate that when we get it done
tomorrow. What's a monthlything, what's a quarterly thing?
(13:09):
So I think people can start tolay out almost like stepping stones,
you know, these moves, as longas they keep the momentum of the
organization going in thestrategic direction upon which they've
decided.
Okay. And it's so true. Andit's, you know, creating that act
on. I, I think that is so,it's so important to be able to have
(13:31):
that. So something that yousaid that I kind of want to ask you
about too is, you know, and Ithink this is, it's a huge insight
is that that strategy sessionshould be collective, it's with the
whole team. And so how manytimes, you know, in your experience
(13:52):
have you seen it be just theexecutive team?
Yeah. Too often. Too often.And you know, a lot of the best thoughts
about the things I've beentalking about strategy. How are customers
behaving? How are suppliersbehaving? They tend to come from
the people in an organizationwho are actually touching those ecosystems.
And so I do think you wantdifferent voices in the room, people
(14:16):
with different perspectiveswho are viewing the world of that
enterprise differently. Andyou think together. And I, you know,
I do it in my off sites, verystructured way. Everybody does, but
you want to think together.And we use these things called frameworks
and strategy work. And there'ssimply a way to organize your thinking,
you know, like the old BCGmatrix, you know, it's just a way
(14:37):
to organize your thinking andstart to ask hard questions, Gosh,
which of the businesses we'rein are in the growth areas and should
we invest in those? Which onesare great businesses but they're
not really going anywhere andmaybe we'll just harvest those things
and which things, you know,we're trying, but they're not working
out so well, maybe we need tostop doing that or divest. It's just
(14:58):
a way to organize thinking andget people talking. I find that if
you can get the right peoplehaving the right conversation at
the right time, you're in the,you know, 90th percentile of high
performing organizations. Soit's, it really starts with having
that dialogue, thatconversation where people are talking
about strategic things insteadof just how do I get this, you know,
(15:22):
report out by Thursday.
Right, right. So, so ifsomebody today said, oh, you know
what, I, I've, I've got mycorporate meeting scheduled with
our executives, you know, whatdo you, what would you say to them,
like thinking, like, I mean, Iknow you said, you know, obviously
the people that are touchingthe ecosystem need to be in the room.
(15:45):
But so many people don't thinkthat way.
Yeah, no, it's, it's, I thinkone of the biggest challenges. There's
two challenges here. One ispeople misunderstand what strategy
is though. They, they thinkit's a goal. Well, goals are part
of it, but they're not a fullstrategy. I was doing work with,
with a big in New York acouple of months ago and they said,
(16:07):
well, we have a strategy. Isaid, great. I said it saves me time.
And I said, what is it? Theysaid, we're going to raise our stock
price by 8%. I said, well,that's a goal. Maybe it's a good
goal, maybe it's a bad goal, Idon't know. But it's not a strategy.
The strategy is the series ofthings you would do to get there.
Yeah. Why they're good moveswithin the context of your current
(16:29):
environment. What's happeningin your environment that would cause
you to make these moves? Howmight people react to them? What
resources do you need to dothose? How do you. And no success.
When you see it, how are wegoing to keep score along the way
and then who's doing what onthis journey and how all those pieces
fit together and they're like,ah, okay, you know, a vision's not
a strategy. A mission is not astrategy. A set of values is not
(16:51):
a strategy. All those thingsare important and inform the strategy,
but the strategy that youknow, that full game plan. So that's
problem one is just knowingwhat you're trying to do. The second
biggest problem, and youprobably experience this a lot, is
we mistake strategic planningfor strategic thinking. A lot of
times what we call strategicplanning is a thinly disguised annual
(17:12):
budget drill and it's bottomup. Everybody wants data. Well, if
you have data, we can onlyhave data on the past or maybe the
present. So it naturally dragsyour mind backwards. Whereas as I
mentioned, strategies castingyour mind forward into the unknown.
It's about the future. Thefuture hasn't happened yet, so there's
(17:33):
not really data for it. Andthese two things get confused. And
what you often get with what Icall corporate programming or what
a lot of people think isstrategic planning is you get a bottom
up assessment based on lastyear's baseline and then there's
some modest improvement.People say, well there's our new
strategy. Like yeah, you'remodestly improved over last year,
(17:57):
which may be fine, but ifyou're really looking to transform
the organization and move intoa place of greater advantage, you
can cast your mind forward,away from the data in the past, just
a little bit more top down. Soif I can get organizations past these
two hurdles, sort of opens upthe aperture and everybody's like,
(18:20):
oh yeah, let's start thinkingwhat's happening in our market? What
is our competition doing? Whyare consumers behaving the way they're
behaving? What changes arecoming down the road? Technology,
everybody's talking, AI, how'sit going to affect us? Those are
the conversations you want tohave when you're doing strategic
thinking.
Right. And so the thing thatjust came out came to my brain and
I really. And I, it's like,is, it's, you know, your, your goal
(18:46):
versus aiming. Yes. Like,like, you know, how are you. And
strategy versus just aiming to something.
Right.
How am I going to get there,you know, you know, for. And I'll
share a funny example ofsomething that, that made me actually
walk away from a company. Sowhen I was in magazine publishing,
(19:06):
I was sitting in a room and I,I love consumer. Consumer. To my
brain, consumer marketing isboth left brain, right brain. Because
you have to be creative andyou have to be analytical. So I loved
that. That was like my, like,you know, I would geek out on econometrics,
you know, whatever. But whenI'm sitting in this meeting and I,
(19:29):
I'll never forget this. Like,it was just like yesterday. I got
the president of company onone side and the senior VP of sales
and marketing on the other endof the conference table. CEO goes,
I think we need to make alittle bit more money. And the VP
goes, we're going to raise the price.
(19:53):
You two should talk.
And I was, and, and then Isaid, and I'm sitting there thinking
about this and I'm thinking,what? He's like, you want more money,
you're going to raise theprice. Have you thought about the
implications? Like, do youknow that if you increase your, like,
statistically speaking, if youincrease your price by 10%, you're
going to lose this number ofcustomers would do.
(20:17):
They could both be right ifthey took the time to sit down and
say, what would be the thingsthat might link these two goals?
So you're going to addadditional features, you're going
to go after new subscribers.And even at the higher price point,
people feel like they'regetting something that's differentiated
and then you can run models.
Right?
But yeah, I find that all thetime people come in with a goal,
(20:41):
it's often something that isuniquely suited to them. You know,
the finance People financegoal and the marketing people have
a marketing goal and theengineering people have an engineering
goal. And so on, the meetingup of these things and making sure
they all fit together, that'swhen a strategy starts to emerge.
Right. I was going to say,because those all need to come, to
come together so that, youknow, there's that crossover, right,
(21:04):
where they all come togetherso that they're at the same. They're
at the end point. They're allworking towards the same future value
that they want to have.
Right, exactly.
Which is quite interesting.It's quite interesting. So, so tell
me, you know, you have hadlike this amazing career. You've.
(21:25):
You've worked in government.So when you're thinking about how
that, like all of those piecesfrom CEO to corporate, does strategy
differ?
You know, it really doesn't.This is one of the themes of the
book, which is that I'm aclassically trained strategist, which
in classic terms, we apply tothe word itself comes from the Greek
(21:51):
word for general. Sostrategies associated with military
stuff. It's associated with,you know, nations doing their thing
on the global stage and allthat. And, you know, I've been, I
was a assistant secretary ofstate under Condoleezza Rice. So
I get that world, right? She'sa genius at the big picture. Go.
(22:12):
But that's just like the basicscience, the applied science is applying
thinking strategically to anysetting. A sports team, a business,
a nonprofit. And I worked withall of them. The basic elements of
strategy which we've beentalking about, you just apply them
to the. All the rest is X'sand O's and you figure it out. So
(22:34):
for me, when I made the leapfrom the military and government
into business, I came in withonly. I came into the business world
with only two skills. One is Iknew how to think strategically.
Where's this organizationgoing? Why? You know, how do we know
who's doing what along theway? All that. And I came in with
leadership skills, which isnow that we've established a direction,
(22:57):
how do I get people to worktogether to accomplish something?
And so that was it. I had noskills. I had to learn all the business
skills and running a business,including right on up through when
I was a public company CEO.But the basic tenets of how any human
organization works, where arewe going and are we going to work
(23:19):
together to get there, that'sthe stuff of leadership.
Right? And so, you know,people who are listening, if you
could say to them, besidesreading your book, yes, you know,
what, what, what is Somethingthat they could do today that will
help them become a betterstrategic thinker, which will then,
(23:43):
of course, help them be abetter leader.
I would say, you know, juststart to adapt, slow some strategic
moments into your leadershiplife, which can be as simple as,
let's talk a little bit aboutthe future. Let's examine the environment
in which we're existing andtalk about what it means for the
(24:06):
future. Let's think aboutwhere are we positioned correctly
or do we want to be positioneddifferently? What would a movement
to the better position looklike? And that can flow into everyday
work. So it would be. Point ofone. The second thing is there's
strategic activities inbuilding an organization, scaling
an organization among them. Iwould label developing other leaders.
(24:28):
This is a real superpowerleaders can access. I tell people
in charge, whether they'reentrepreneurs or big company leaders,
your job is not just to runthe company you are. Your job is
to create the company youain't the company of the future.
And so that requires thinkingabout the company you ain't yet.
(24:49):
And then it requires youthinking about firing yourself from
your current job of runningthe company you are and hiring your
new self to build the companyyou are not yet. And that implies
that you need to leave thecompany you are in good hands, which
means you need to spend timecoaching, developing others, you
(25:10):
know, tell a story. In my lastbook, Leadership Book, this amazing
CEO, and she had a mug on herdesk, and on one side it said boss,
and on the other side it saidcoach. And when you came into her
office, depending on what kindof meeting you were with her, she
would spin the mug around. Soyou knew this was a coaching session
or this was a boss meeting,which I thought was a really cool
(25:32):
device.
I love that. That's reallygreat. That's really great.
But. But what? She reallyinternalized that she had both jobs,
not just to run the shop, butto develop people to. To help her
do that so that she could keepgrowing as a leader and build the
company going forward.
You know, it's. I absolutelylove that. And so I, you know, I
(25:55):
think, you know, one of thethings that I see is that I, And
I want to. This is sort of astatement and a question at the same
time. I think a lot of peopleforget that the word leader is to
actually lead people to something.
Right, Right.
(26:15):
Like we are, you know, and so,you know, my question is, is as you.
As. As we think of that, youknow, what happens when people, you
know, are in these companiesand they just. They forget.
They forget that, oh, gosh, ithappens all the time. I do a test
(26:36):
with companies, which is, I'lltalk to the CEO or the other top
leaders. I'll say, do youthink everybody's clear on the strategy?
Absolutely. We've hammered itout. We put it on our cards. It's
posted on posters in the breakroom. Everybody knows where we're
going. I said, well, this is atestable proposition. Let me walk
around and talk to people onthis. Like, hey, did you hear about
the new thing? Oh, yeah, Iheard about the new thing. How do
(26:59):
you know the new thing whenyou see it? Bosses tell me, you know,
people really struggle with.So you can never underestimate how
much people are not on thesame sheet of music. And so I think
finding ways to make sure thatthe direction of the company, the
(27:19):
way it's going to behave, thethings that matter, the things on
which they're keeping score,the kind of culture that will be
rewarded because it propelssuccess, those things need to be
really explicitly understood,rewarded when they happen, corrected
when they don't. And I thinkleaders really need to be kind of
ruthless about this, you know,always making sure that, you know,
(27:42):
the people can see whatdirection, the direction of the enterprise
looks like when they bump intoit in the hallway. What does it look
like when they bumped into it,you know, our new strategy when you
encounter it, what was it?
And something that you justsaid, too, is like, does everybody
know this? And I think there'stwo things here that I think are
slightly different. You know,and so correct me if I'm wrong is,
(28:05):
you know, do they know thestrategy? Number one, what's like
the new strategy? But also,what's the mission?
Yeah.
And so you said, like, it'sposted on the. In the break room.
Well, the missions should belike. And then. And to me, a mission
statement is not somethingthat you write in chisel in stone.
It's something that you needto. It's fluid. It needs to be. Yeah,
(28:26):
it's needs to be changed. But.But mission and strategy are different.
They're. They're combined.They work off each other, but they're
two different.
Yeah, yeah. A mission, youknow, a vision. What you want the
world to look like because youexist as an enterprise. The values,
how you're going to behave,what kind of things you reward around
(28:48):
the place, and the mission,what you're actually doing and why
you exist, what you hope toaccomplish, those are all really
important. And they inform astrategy. They kind of sit over top
of it like rain clouds. Andthey feed it. But the strategy is
a more detailed game plan ofall the different moves that will
be made if it's ever out ofsync with the mission or vision or
(29:09):
values. It can be prettyobvious, right. But the strategy
itself is a more detailed planfor how you're actually going to
make the movement.
Right. In some ways it's like,it's like, what's the playbook? And
everybody almost needs to havethat playbook, you know, like, you
know, whether it's a copy thateveryone's got. Okay, this is our
playbook for right now, right?Like this is, this is our five year
(29:32):
playbook. And you know, echo,you in the marketing department,
you've got this section, butyou need to make sure that you're
working with engineering orwhatever, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, it's, it's. I, Ifind it fascinating because. And,
and something else that, youknow, that you said is, is that,
you know, and I think it's.And listeners, as you're hearing
(29:52):
this, it's start now to thinkabout the flow that you have. Like
get into the, that habit of,of thinking and vision and, and thinking
about what the future is sothat you can plan and get the people
that are on in your, you know,you again, I hate the word employees,
(30:12):
but get your team becausethose are, that's your team, right?
Get them thinking they've gotto be. They. I will guarantee you
the creativity will come out,you know, and the, the one thing
that's coming out to my,that's like all of a sudden like,
you know, jumping into mybrain is the guy who created this
flaming hot Cheetos. Right?
Right. Yeah, yeah. No,absolutely. Everybody needs to be
(30:34):
involved. And I would say evenoutside of the enterprise, one of
the things I coach leaders onis you have a lot of stakeholders.
You know, you have your teamin the enterprise, you have your
customers, you have suppliers,you have seekers. When I became a
public company CEO, all of asudden among my stakeholders were
industry analysts, press,politicians, regulators. I was like,
(30:55):
whoa, I'm a trained in any ofthose things. Right. But they were
important stakeholders. Theclearer my strategy was, the clearer
the purpose of theorganization was, the easier it became
for me to communicate all ouractions to all these groups of stakeholders.
And everybody felt moreinvested as a result. So it lends
(31:16):
a coherence to organizationsthat goes beyond your product or
your services or somethinglike that. It really cements why
we exist and what we're tryingto get done around here.
Right. You know, and it'ssomething that you just, you know,
you're thinking like, youknow, those stakeholders, the people
that. It's the people thatyou're touching, the people that
are impacting. And it's alsowho are those people that have a
(31:39):
perceived value of what yourcompany is or what you were doing,
need to be included in someway, shape or form? Because you might
think that everybody thinksthat your company is, you know, raging
amazing, but in actuality,they have a different opinion.
Yeah, completely. Completely.I often will go, I'll test the companies
(32:02):
and they'll say, why do peoplechoose you over your competitors?
I'll say this, that I'll get alot of great marketing feedback.
I'll say, well, let me go talkto some customers. You know, why
did you pick them? I oftendon't hear the marketing back, which
I hate to depress, you know,great marketing professionals, but
I don't hear the advertisementback. I hear different things. And
that's the kind of stuff thatneeds to be back, taken back and
(32:26):
important. You know, I'll makeanother point because something you
said raised in my mind, whichis another strategic activity. I
think all leaders need to workin areas which is stakeholder management.
You know, we tend to spendtime as leaders with people that
are in close proximity to usor with whom we're really familiar
or that work for us. And whatleaders really need to do is make
(32:53):
and cultivate relationshipswith stakeholders outside of their
enterprise. Because if youwait until you need a relationship,
it's too late to format. Andso I think I always tell people,
I'm like, get out of theoffice. There's so much to do around
here. I don't care, you know,go to that industry happy hour. Go
take your competitors to. Letmy competitors. Yes, take your competitor
(33:13):
to lunch. You'll be amazed athow much they'll talk about, you
know, just because they wantto talk. But get to know people outside
of the company that can havesome influence or impact on your
future because you want tohave a relationship with them, you
know, when you're going toneed it.
I am so happy that you saidthat. So I 100% agree. And I think
(33:40):
that is so criticallyimportant. And I actually just had
a conversation with one of myreally great friends who's a CMO
of a company, and we weretalking about how, you know, and
I actually just. I did a poston this, too, is that leaders like
(34:00):
you as a person at a company,you need to be able to get yourself
out of the company to meetother people, because no offense
to companies, it's not like itused to be where you were employed
by X company for your entirecareer. Right. So things happen,
(34:21):
companies get sold. You don'tknow what's, you might not be in
the C suite knowing what'shappening. And even if you are in
the C suite, you might bethere one day and all of a sudden
you're out. But if you don'thave those relationships, Right.
It could take you years tofind another job. But if you have
(34:42):
the, like, if you can pick upthe phone and say, hey, John, Jacqueline,
you know, whatever I, youknow, we connected, this is where
I am, whatever it is. And youbuilt a relationship.
Right.
So critical.
Yeah. And I think that's thekey thing. As you've implied, the
best strategic relationshipsare non transactional.
(35:04):
Yeah.
They're not, they're notthere. I'll scratch your back, you
scratch mine there. Those are,you know, I tell people you have
three, I tell executives youhave three buckets of relationships.
You have your, your personalnetwork, which is great, that's like
your personal board ofdirectors, people that get, you know,
you can give you advice. Thenyou have your operational network,
which is the 10 or 12 peopleyou need to touch every day to get
(35:24):
your job done. And that's kindof chosen for you. But your strategic
network is up to you. Andthat's a set of people that you don't
necessarily rely on day to dayto be successful. But you know them,
they know you, you respectthem, they respect you. They'll take
your call, you'll take theircall. They'll do things for you,
you'll do things for them withno, you know, implicit reward that
(35:46):
day. But you just, you eachmatter to each other and that's.
If you can build those kind ofrelationships, they always stand
you in good stead. So you, youknow, you asked you what, what is
a set of strategic activitiesother than planning for the company
people can do in their lives?I tell executives, you know, build
those leadership networksoutside of your business.
(36:09):
Yeah. And it's true. So I, mypost or my, I did a, I don't know
if it was a post or wrote,wrote about it, whatever, but it
was on that point. But alsodon't hold your network to yourself.
Yes. Yeah, that's right. Ithink you actually gain power by
giving it away.
Yeah.
There was a very famous woman,you probably heard her, Heidi Roizen
(36:32):
in Silicon Valley. And Heidibecame basically the relationship
broker during Silicon Valley'sformative years. And she, you know,
literally introduced BillGates to, you know, Steve Jobs and
things like that. And shewould have spaghetti dinners that
she would make herself and herkids would be running around pajamas
at her house in Palo Alto. Andeverybody would come because Heidi
(36:55):
was an honest broker. Shewould just say, you have to know
Jacqueline, you guys have alot in common. You get along. I could
see ways you could help eachother. And so to be a relationship
broker, to build thoserelationships is, is a powerful thing.
And if you guard your networkand refuse to use it, then it atrophies,
(37:18):
right?
Yeah. And so, you know, and I,and I think it's so important and
I, so I feel like leaders, asyou're listening, remember you, you're,
you're leading people, you'retrying to be strategic and by leading
people to, and helping, youwant to help those people in your
fold also be strategic inwhere they want to go with their
(37:39):
life. You're the leader,right? So to me, it's like help them
be the best they, that theycan be.
That's right. That's right. Ionce, I was running a company once
and I stood up a highpotential program for, you know,
our up and coming younger vicepresidents who had extraordinary
(38:00):
potential. And a couple of theolder executives were like, gosh,
what are you doing? You know,you're, you're going to wake them
up to their own potential andthen they're going to leave. And
it happened. A couple of them,you know, realized how amazing they
were in the course of these,this training and they did leave.
And I said, don't, don'tworry. They're going to be in our
(38:21):
network forever and some willeven come back. But, but the people
were viewing their highpotentials as just a great worker
as opposed to someone whocould be developed and do more as
if they were just a, you know,slower, smaller, slightly better
smelling horse. Right. Justpull your wagon. And, and, and no,
(38:45):
I, I don't, you know, in, in aknowledge economy, you can't treat
people that way. So I, youknow, I'm for the more I've helped
people unlock potential, themore I've been rewarded in the enterprises
I'm leading, it always comesback. It's not just karma, it's just
good business.
Right? So I'm sure youprobably have read it, but Bob Berg
(39:06):
wrote Givers Gain or GoGivers. Right? So Bob was, was a
guest on the podcast and hisepisodes coming out, but great. Like
the whole philosophy, right,of being able to, to give without,
you know, detaching from anoutcome, like there's no outcome
(39:26):
of the, you're not. You'renot. It's not a transactional give.
Right. Just to give. Like, Iwant to help you. Who can I connect
you with? This is exciting,right? Like, right. I mean, that's
like, to me, like, that spillsmy cup. John, I could talk to you
for hours because I love thisstuff. I love talking about leadership.
I love talking about strategyand helping our leaders. So tell
(39:48):
everybody where they canconnect with you. Find your book.
Which I. I will also just sayI will actually put a link to the
book in the show notes too.
But yeah, you see the books onAmazon or wherever you get your or
your books, all the various,every format, it's out now in audible.
I think the audible, it shouldbe popping out next week or so, but
(40:09):
it's on Spotify and AppleIbooks and all the rest of it. And
then my website'sjohnhillan.com and you can see some
of the work I do there andsome of the things I write about
there. But yeah, it's great.I'm just, I'm excited, you know,
to be on your show, first ofall, but I'm also just excited to
help bring other leadersalong. When I look out at the world,
whether it's the businessworld or other parts of the world,
(40:30):
I'm like, we need more peoplewho are operating thinking about
themselves as leaders, who arethere to help others and help organizations.
And I think that propels thewhole human enterprise forward.
Yeah, you know, it truly does.It really truly does. So I. John,
I have loved having you as aguest listeners, please do me a favor.
(40:52):
Click the link that's going tobe in the show notes and get his
book, go check out his workbecause he's truly amazing. And then
please do me a favor. If youhave enjoyed this episode, please
make sure you have hitsubscribe and also share this episode
with your business friends andcolleagues, because that is so important.
The more we can create betterleaders, the better world we will
(41:13):
create. So this is theUnstoppable Success podcast. I'm
your host, JaclynStrominger,and thank you, John, for being an
amazing guest.
Thank you.
Well, hello everybody andwelcome to the Unstoppable Success
podcast. I am your host,Jaclyn Strominger. And on this podcast
we hear from amazing leadersand their game changing insights.
We want everybody to be betterleaders so they can be truly unstoppable
in the marketplace. And todayI have an amazing guest on and his
(01:02):
name is John Hillen. And letme just give you a little bit background
on John. So he, he is theHonorable Dr. John Hillen and he
is a board chairman, corporatedirector, and he is a popular college
professor and sought afterspeaker. In addition to his board
roles, he teaches strategy andleadership at Duke University, Hampton
(01:22):
Sydney College and in the MBAprogram at George Mason University,
which is absolutely fantastic.I absolutely love that. And currently
right now he has a new bookout called the Strategy Dialogue
and it is entertaining and hemakes strategy. John makes a strategy
actionable and understandable.And by Marshall Goldsmith, a must
(01:44):
read for anyone looking to getclarity and bring these tools to
their business. So John,welcome. As we were talking pre show,
we were talking a little bitabout how strategy is not really
talk. So I am so happy thatyou are.
Yeah. Thanks Jaclyn It's afunny thing because every executive,
no matter what they do, smallcompanies, big companies, earlier
(02:07):
in their career, later in thecareer, are always told that they
need to assemble this group ofwhat we call executive competencies,
things they need to be goodat. And there's always a category
for thinking strategically,big picture, long range, understanding
the forces that shape yourmarket. And, and yet almost all the
corporate training, by myestimation, about 80% of it is oriented
(02:31):
on giving people moretechnical and tactical skills to
get things done day to day.And so it's this gap in things we
say we must be able to masterand then things we actually train
and give people an opportunityto work on.
Yeah. So tell me like where,you know, where was the genesis?
(02:52):
Like when you were writing,like when you're thinking about the
book, I mean obviously, youknow, obviously you know that there's
this gap. So why did youdecide to write the book?
So I came across this reallyinteresting study that looked at
executives, tested thousandsof executives and asked what is their
natural acts and logic? Thisis the way they make decisions. They
(03:14):
try to win the day in themeeting, they try to get people to
come their way. Maybe they'redefending their turf if they're under
pressure and they use anatural logic. And only 4% of the
executives they testednaturally think strategically, that's
their go to move. And what Imean by that, if you say John, you
(03:34):
know this report is really dueFriday. If you're trying to talk
me into that strategically,you say, well look, you know, if
you get it to me by Friday,then I have what I need to see. We're
going to where we're going tobe at the end of the month. And if
I know we're going to be atthe end of the month, I can maybe
shape our ambitions for thequarter. And if we get to there by
the end of the quarter, I canlook at our year end. I can even
(03:56):
shape, you know, going outfurther. So you'll interconnect a
series of pieces of why thething due Friday connects to the
longer term picture. If you'veseen that movie, the Queen's Gambit,
you know, the chess player,she sees the moves on the ceiling
as she's laying in bed aheadof her matches. So it's a little
bit like that. Which is whypeople, people associate chess with
(04:17):
strategy. Only 4% of peoplenaturally try to connect today's
move to a bunch of tomorrow'soutcomes. Most executives are really
focused on short termachievement or mastering the data
or trying to give everybody alittle bit of their way. So everybody
gets, you know, some piece ofthe decision. And so that's why I
(04:39):
said, wow, only 4% are naturalstrategist. How can we put something
into the literature that helpsthe 96% find this muscle and exercise
it? Because everybody's gotthe capacity to think this way. It
just tends to be an unusedmuscle. And just like if you have
a good trainer in the gym,they'll show you how to activate
(04:59):
a muscle and then they'll showyou what machines in the gym to go
use to build it. You can dothe same thing with the strategic
part of your brain.
It's so funny as you'restudying the time, it's so true.
And it's also at the sametime, I'm thinking the gym. If you,
you know, if the end game atthe gym is to make sure that you
got big guns or whatever itis, or you want to drop 10 pounds
(05:22):
or whatever the what, whateverthat end game goal is. Right, right.
You, you work backwards. Likewhat do I need, what do I need to
do to get there? You know, andit's the same thing. And what you
were just saying about so manypeople are looking at what they have
to do today to move theneedle, but in actuality, right.
You know, we really need tolook at. If I want to be a $5 billion
(05:47):
company in five years, I needto go Backwards. And so that what
I do today is actuallybuilding on the things that I need
to do to get me to the five.
Exactly. You've nailed it.Because strategy, first of all, and
you touched on this. It's away to think, not a what to think.
(06:08):
Right. It's not some perfectoutcome. It's not a magic answer.
It's a way you interpret yoursurroundings, you process information,
and you start to put togetherplans. Those plans, those moves interconnect
and add up to where you'regoing. And so that whole journey,
that strategy, it's a completeblueprint. It's a game plan to get
(06:30):
you from one place to another.The another place should be a place
of more advantage, whetherit's growth, whether it's competitive
strength, whether it is. Itcan be. It can be a defensive move
in the marketplace, but it's aseries of things that interconnect
to get you to a place ofgreater advantage.
Okay, so here's my questionfor you. So people are listening
(06:51):
right now, right? And we'vegot leaders that are listening, and
they're like, okay, I getthis. I. I'm understanding the whole
concept. What's the firstthing that I need to do today to
think more strategically?
Yeah, well, there's, you know,in Vegas, you know, they have these
tells. Well, I always say,what's the tell of somebody thinking
strategically? They'rethinking long range, not short term.
(07:15):
They're thinking big picture,not their immediate surroundings.
You know, there are challengesthat week. They're seeking to connect
things. Analysts breakproblems down. A strategic mind weaves
everything back together.What's going on with my suppliers,
my customers, my competition,technology, the regulatory environment,
the economic environment,consumer habits. And they look at
(07:38):
the way all these ecosystemsthat affect their business interconnect.
So that's another giveaway forstrategic mind. The other thing I
found, Jaclyn, is that peoplewho are thinking strategically are
oriented towards the future,and they tend to have a different
attitude. They don't say no tothemselves. They say, if I'm going
to do that in the future, whatwould have to be true for that to
(08:02):
happen? They don't say, oh,that'll never work. They say, what
would have to be true for thatto happen? And they can start playing
with scenarios and seeing howrealistic it could be. Pros and cons.
So there's a creativity,there's an art of the possible attitude
about thinking strategically.I think those kind of characteristics
really separate strategicmind. And everybody can practice
(08:24):
this. I tell, you know,companies, I say, don't wait for
your mysterious once a yearstrategy off site. Like this is daily,
right? Because everybody hasit, right? This, this should be daily
hygiene. Like have a strategymoment in your meetings where at
the end of the meeting yousay, okay, this thing we just decided
on, everybody, let's go aroundthe room and make sure everybody
(08:45):
understands how it connects tothe big picture and the long range
plans.
Right? And I guess that's theother key question is, is as a leader,
you know, it's, is it. Do you,would you say, take a look at. And
I'm going to think about thisin the standard standpoint, almost
like from the standpoint a,from an entrepreneurial standpoint
(09:08):
where you got your solopreneurright. They still need to think.
There's thinking big instrategy, but then they also have
all the day to day. So do you,Would you say look at those. You
know, I shouldn't say, likewhat would you say to them? Like,
what are the, like what arethe, what's the way for you to think
strategically as the entrepreneur?
(09:28):
Right. Yeah. And reallyimportant. I say, you know, one of
the excuses I hear from peoplesometimes, they say, oh, I don't
need the strategy stuffbecause we're a small company or
I'm just getting started.That's a big company thing. IBM needs
a strategy. I don't. I'm like,yeah, of course you don't. I would
never want to know what theweather is. I would never want to
be prepared for it. I'm justgoing to go out every day and hope
something good happens to me.Right. And then people say, okay,
(09:50):
I get where you're going. Buteven smaller companies, and there's
a day in the life of everyentrepreneur where in the morning
they're working on the biggestdeal they've ever worked on and in
the afternoon they're fixingthe office coffee machine. Right.
That's just the life you gothrough as an entrepreneur. So I'm
a swimmer and you know, nobodyever asked me what arm I swim with.
(10:12):
I swim with both arms in bothways. And so people need to think
of it the same way. You haveto get your tactical things done.
We're paid as executives atany level to get things done. You
also have to think and planfor the future and start to put together
those pieces we talked about.These are two different parts of
the brain, quite literallyright brain, left brain in many ways.
(10:35):
And you've got to have allmuscles working. And I coach executives
actually color code on theircalendar activities that were oriented
around short Term executionand activities that were oriented
around strategic progresswhich are tend to be longer range
in nature and people can seehow their day breaks up, which meeting
(10:58):
satisfied, which kind of taskthat they're responsible for.
I actually love. It's like,you know, people talk about like
what, what's what, what bucketor what is. What shelf are, you know,
are you working on right now?Like where is that right in that,
that play, you know, somethingthat you said too, that I just, I
kind of want to go back to alittle bit. So. And we were chuckling
(11:21):
about it, about the, theyearly strategy strategic meeting,
whatever, and I can't begin tosay how many that I've been through.
And you're like, okay, why didwe even do that? Like it's like you
do it and then.
Right. Everybody comes at himis like, gosh, now I just lost two
(11:42):
days of answering my emailsbecause I've been sitting in a strategy
off site.
Right, right. And we've never,we, we actually didn't come out.
You, you talk about strategy,but what's the action plan right
now?
That, that's really important.In fact, I was doing an off site
earlier today with a companyand I said one of the most. First,
you've got to manageexpectations. Right. It's not something,
there's not like someleprechaun at the end of the strategy
(12:04):
rainbow that says, hey, here'syour magic answer. Here's your plan
for the next five years.
It's a process and your, andyour, and your bucket of gold. Right?
Right. Exactly, exactly. Soit's not that. So you know, thinking
about strategy, working onstrategy, which should always be
a collective exercise, youknow, you get the whole team in.
There is not something thatgives you, you know, this magic solution.
(12:25):
It's not pixie dust. Sothere's expectations. The other thing,
the worst thing you can do isjust let it sit. I think all executives,
all leaders need to beoriented towards action. And so you
immediately pluck out, whichis one of the things we did at the
end of the off site today,which was, okay, what can we act
on now? We know direction.We've agreed directionally where
(12:46):
we need to go. We've evenbegun to perceive and write down
some of the actual individualmoves and when they might happen
that'll pull us in thatdirection. A direction we've all
decided leads us to a betterplace, whatever better means for
your business. So let's knockit out. What low hanging fruit. What
can we do today? Let'scelebrate that when we get it done
tomorrow. What's a monthlything, what's a quarterly thing?
(13:09):
So I think people can start tolay out almost like stepping stones,
you know, these moves, as longas they keep the momentum of the
organization going in thestrategic direction upon which they've
decided.
Okay. And it's so true. Andit's, you know, creating that act
on. I, I think that is so,it's so important to be able to have
(13:31):
that. So something that yousaid that I kind of want to ask you
about too is, you know, and Ithink this is, it's a huge insight
is that that strategy sessionshould be collective, it's with the
whole team. And so how manytimes, you know, in your experience
(13:52):
have you seen it be just theexecutive team?
Yeah. Too often. Too often.And you know, a lot of the best thoughts
about the things I've beentalking about strategy. How are customers
behaving? How are suppliersbehaving? They tend to come from
the people in an organizationwho are actually touching those ecosystems.
And so I do think you wantdifferent voices in the room, people
(14:16):
with different perspectiveswho are viewing the world of that
enterprise differently. Andyou think together. And I, you know,
I do it in my off sites, verystructured way. Everybody does, but
you want to think together.And we use these things called frameworks
and strategy work. And there'ssimply a way to organize your thinking,
you know, like the old BCGmatrix, you know, it's just a way
(14:37):
to organize your thinking andstart to ask hard questions, Gosh,
which of the businesses we'rein are in the growth areas and should
we invest in those? Which onesare great businesses but they're
not really going anywhere andmaybe we'll just harvest those things
and which things, you know,we're trying, but they're not working
out so well, maybe we need tostop doing that or divest. It's just
(14:58):
a way to organize thinking andget people talking. I find that if
you can get the right peoplehaving the right conversation at
the right time, you're in the,you know, 90th percentile of high
performing organizations. Soit's, it really starts with having
that dialogue, thatconversation where people are talking
about strategic things insteadof just how do I get this, you know,
(15:22):
report out by Thursday.
Right, right. So, so ifsomebody today said, oh, you know
what, I, I've, I've got mycorporate meeting scheduled with
our executives, you know, whatdo you, what would you say to them,
like thinking, like, I mean, Iknow you said, you know, obviously
the people that are touchingthe ecosystem need to be in the room.
(15:45):
But so many people don't thinkthat way.
Yeah, no, it's, it's, I thinkone of the biggest challenges. There's
two challenges here. One ispeople misunderstand what strategy
is though. They, they thinkit's a goal. Well, goals are part
of it, but they're not a fullstrategy. I was doing work with,
with a big in New York acouple of months ago and they said,
(16:07):
well, we have a strategy. Isaid, great. I said it saves me time.
And I said, what is it? Theysaid, we're going to raise our stock
price by 8%. I said, well,that's a goal. Maybe it's a good
goal, maybe it's a bad goal, Idon't know. But it's not a strategy.
The strategy is the series ofthings you would do to get there.
Yeah. Why they're good moveswithin the context of your current
(16:29):
environment. What's happeningin your environment that would cause
you to make these moves? Howmight people react to them? What
resources do you need to dothose? How do you. And no success.
When you see it, how are wegoing to keep score along the way
and then who's doing what onthis journey and how all those pieces
fit together and they're like,ah, okay, you know, a vision's not
a strategy. A mission is not astrategy. A set of values is not
(16:51):
a strategy. All those thingsare important and inform the strategy,
but the strategy that youknow, that full game plan. So that's
problem one is just knowingwhat you're trying to do. The second
biggest problem, and youprobably experience this a lot, is
we mistake strategic planningfor strategic thinking. A lot of
times what we call strategicplanning is a thinly disguised annual
(17:12):
budget drill and it's bottomup. Everybody wants data. Well, if
you have data, we can onlyhave data on the past or maybe the
present. So it naturally dragsyour mind backwards. Whereas as I
mentioned, strategies castingyour mind forward into the unknown.
It's about the future. Thefuture hasn't happened yet, so there's
(17:33):
not really data for it. Andthese two things get confused. And
what you often get with what Icall corporate programming or what
a lot of people think isstrategic planning is you get a bottom
up assessment based on lastyear's baseline and then there's
some modest improvement.People say, well there's our new
strategy. Like yeah, you'remodestly improved over last year,
(17:57):
which may be fine, but ifyou're really looking to transform
the organization and move intoa place of greater advantage, you
can cast your mind forward,away from the data in the past, just
a little bit more top down. Soif I can get organizations past these
two hurdles, sort of opens upthe aperture and everybody's like,
(18:20):
oh yeah, let's start thinkingwhat's happening in our market? What
is our competition doing? Whyare consumers behaving the way they're
behaving? What changes arecoming down the road? Technology,
everybody's talking, AI, how'sit going to affect us? Those are
the conversations you want tohave when you're doing strategic
thinking.
Right. And so the thing thatjust came out came to my brain and
I really. And I, it's like,is, it's, you know, your, your goal
(18:46):
versus aiming. Yes. Like,like, you know, how are you. And
strategy versus just aiming to something.
Right.
How am I going to get there,you know, you know, for. And I'll
share a funny example ofsomething that, that made me actually
walk away from a company. Sowhen I was in magazine publishing,
(19:06):
I was sitting in a room and I,I love consumer. Consumer. To my
brain, consumer marketing isboth left brain, right brain. Because
you have to be creative andyou have to be analytical. So I loved
that. That was like my, like,you know, I would geek out on econometrics,
you know, whatever. But whenI'm sitting in this meeting and I,
(19:29):
I'll never forget this. Like,it was just like yesterday. I got
the president of company onone side and the senior VP of sales
and marketing on the other endof the conference table. CEO goes,
I think we need to make alittle bit more money. And the VP
goes, we're going to raise the price.
(19:53):
You two should talk.
And I was, and, and then Isaid, and I'm sitting there thinking
about this and I'm thinking,what? He's like, you want more money,
you're going to raise theprice. Have you thought about the
implications? Like, do youknow that if you increase your, like,
statistically speaking, if youincrease your price by 10%, you're
going to lose this number ofcustomers would do.
(20:17):
They could both be right ifthey took the time to sit down and
say, what would be the thingsthat might link these two goals?
So you're going to addadditional features, you're going
to go after new subscribers.And even at the higher price point,
people feel like they'regetting something that's differentiated
and then you can run models.
Right?
But yeah, I find that all thetime people come in with a goal,
(20:41):
it's often something that isuniquely suited to them. You know,
the finance People financegoal and the marketing people have
a marketing goal and theengineering people have an engineering
goal. And so on, the meetingup of these things and making sure
they all fit together, that'swhen a strategy starts to emerge.
Right. I was going to say,because those all need to come, to
come together so that, youknow, there's that crossover, right,
(21:04):
where they all come togetherso that they're at the same. They're
at the end point. They're allworking towards the same future value
that they want to have.
Right, exactly.
Which is quite interesting.It's quite interesting. So, so tell
me, you know, you have hadlike this amazing career. You've.
(21:25):
You've worked in government.So when you're thinking about how
that, like all of those piecesfrom CEO to corporate, does strategy
differ?
You know, it really doesn't.This is one of the themes of the
book, which is that I'm aclassically trained strategist, which
in classic terms, we apply tothe word itself comes from the Greek
(21:51):
word for general. Sostrategies associated with military
stuff. It's associated with,you know, nations doing their thing
on the global stage and allthat. And, you know, I've been, I
was a assistant secretary ofstate under Condoleezza Rice. So
I get that world, right? She'sa genius at the big picture. Go.
(22:12):
But that's just like the basicscience, the applied science is applying
thinking strategically to anysetting. A sports team, a business,
a nonprofit. And I worked withall of them. The basic elements of
strategy which we've beentalking about, you just apply them
to the. All the rest is X'sand O's and you figure it out. So
(22:34):
for me, when I made the leapfrom the military and government
into business, I came in withonly. I came into the business world
with only two skills. One is Iknew how to think strategically.
Where's this organizationgoing? Why? You know, how do we know
who's doing what along theway? All that. And I came in with
leadership skills, which isnow that we've established a direction,
(22:57):
how do I get people to worktogether to accomplish something?
And so that was it. I had noskills. I had to learn all the business
skills and running a business,including right on up through when
I was a public company CEO.But the basic tenets of how any human
organization works, where arewe going and are we going to work
(23:19):
together to get there, that'sthe stuff of leadership.
Right? And so, you know,people who are listening, if you
could say to them, besidesreading your book, yes, you know,
what, what, what is Somethingthat they could do today that will
help them become a betterstrategic thinker, which will then,
(23:43):
of course, help them be abetter leader.
I would say, you know, juststart to adapt, slow some strategic
moments into your leadershiplife, which can be as simple as,
let's talk a little bit aboutthe future. Let's examine the environment
in which we're existing andtalk about what it means for the
(24:06):
future. Let's think aboutwhere are we positioned correctly
or do we want to be positioneddifferently? What would a movement
to the better position looklike? And that can flow into everyday
work. So it would be. Point ofone. The second thing is there's
strategic activities inbuilding an organization, scaling
an organization among them. Iwould label developing other leaders.
(24:28):
This is a real superpowerleaders can access. I tell people
in charge, whether they'reentrepreneurs or big company leaders,
your job is not just to runthe company you are. Your job is
to create the company youain't the company of the future.
And so that requires thinkingabout the company you ain't yet.
(24:49):
And then it requires youthinking about firing yourself from
your current job of runningthe company you are and hiring your
new self to build the companyyou are not yet. And that implies
that you need to leave thecompany you are in good hands, which
means you need to spend timecoaching, developing others, you
(25:10):
know, tell a story. In my lastbook, Leadership Book, this amazing
CEO, and she had a mug on herdesk, and on one side it said boss,
and on the other side it saidcoach. And when you came into her
office, depending on what kindof meeting you were with her, she
would spin the mug around. Soyou knew this was a coaching session
or this was a boss meeting,which I thought was a really cool
(25:32):
device.
I love that. That's reallygreat. That's really great.
But. But what? She reallyinternalized that she had both jobs,
not just to run the shop, butto develop people to. To help her
do that so that she could keepgrowing as a leader and build the
company going forward.
You know, it's. I absolutelylove that. And so I, you know, I
(25:55):
think, you know, one of thethings that I see is that I, And
I want to. This is sort of astatement and a question at the same
time. I think a lot of peopleforget that the word leader is to
actually lead people to something.
Right, Right.
(26:15):
Like we are, you know, and so,you know, my question is, is as you.
As. As we think of that, youknow, what happens when people, you
know, are in these companiesand they just. They forget.
They forget that, oh, gosh, ithappens all the time. I do a test
(26:36):
with companies, which is, I'lltalk to the CEO or the other top
leaders. I'll say, do youthink everybody's clear on the strategy?
Absolutely. We've hammered itout. We put it on our cards. It's
posted on posters in the breakroom. Everybody knows where we're
going. I said, well, this is atestable proposition. Let me walk
around and talk to people onthis. Like, hey, did you hear about
the new thing? Oh, yeah, Iheard about the new thing. How do
(26:59):
you know the new thing whenyou see it? Bosses tell me, you know,
people really struggle with.So you can never underestimate how
much people are not on thesame sheet of music. And so I think
finding ways to make sure thatthe direction of the company, the
(27:19):
way it's going to behave, thethings that matter, the things on
which they're keeping score,the kind of culture that will be
rewarded because it propelssuccess, those things need to be
really explicitly understood,rewarded when they happen, corrected
when they don't. And I thinkleaders really need to be kind of
ruthless about this, you know,always making sure that, you know,
(27:42):
the people can see whatdirection, the direction of the enterprise
looks like when they bump intoit in the hallway. What does it look
like when they bumped into it,you know, our new strategy when you
encounter it, what was it?
And something that you justsaid, too, is like, does everybody
know this? And I think there'stwo things here that I think are
slightly different. You know,and so correct me if I'm wrong is,
(28:05):
you know, do they know thestrategy? Number one, what's like
the new strategy? But also,what's the mission?
Yeah.
And so you said, like, it'sposted on the. In the break room.
Well, the missions should belike. And then. And to me, a mission
statement is not somethingthat you write in chisel in stone.
It's something that you needto. It's fluid. It needs to be. Yeah,
(28:26):
it's needs to be changed. But.But mission and strategy are different.
They're. They're combined.They work off each other, but they're
two different.
Yeah, yeah. A mission, youknow, a vision. What you want the
world to look like because youexist as an enterprise. The values,
how you're going to behave,what kind of things you reward around
(28:48):
the place, and the mission,what you're actually doing and why
you exist, what you hope toaccomplish, those are all really
important. And they inform astrategy. They kind of sit over top
of it like rain clouds. Andthey feed it. But the strategy is
a more detailed game plan ofall the different moves that will
be made if it's ever out ofsync with the mission or vision or
(29:09):
values. It can be prettyobvious, right. But the strategy
itself is a more detailed planfor how you're actually going to
make the movement.
Right. In some ways it's like,it's like, what's the playbook? And
everybody almost needs to havethat playbook, you know, like, you
know, whether it's a copy thateveryone's got. Okay, this is our
playbook for right now, right?Like this is, this is our five year
(29:32):
playbook. And you know, echo,you in the marketing department,
you've got this section, butyou need to make sure that you're
working with engineering orwhatever, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, it's, it's. I, Ifind it fascinating because. And,
and something else that, youknow, that you said is, is that,
you know, and I think it's.And listeners, as you're hearing
(29:52):
this, it's start now to thinkabout the flow that you have. Like
get into the, that habit of,of thinking and vision and, and thinking
about what the future is sothat you can plan and get the people
that are on in your, you know,you again, I hate the word employees,
(30:12):
but get your team becausethose are, that's your team, right?
Get them thinking they've gotto be. They. I will guarantee you
the creativity will come out,you know, and the, the one thing
that's coming out to my,that's like all of a sudden like,
you know, jumping into mybrain is the guy who created this
flaming hot Cheetos. Right?
Right. Yeah, yeah. No,absolutely. Everybody needs to be
(30:34):
involved. And I would say evenoutside of the enterprise, one of
the things I coach leaders onis you have a lot of stakeholders.
You know, you have your teamin the enterprise, you have your
customers, you have suppliers,you have seekers. When I became a
public company CEO, all of asudden among my stakeholders were
industry analysts, press,politicians, regulators. I was like,
(30:55):
whoa, I'm a trained in any ofthose things. Right. But they were
important stakeholders. Theclearer my strategy was, the clearer
the purpose of theorganization was, the easier it became
for me to communicate all ouractions to all these groups of stakeholders.
And everybody felt moreinvested as a result. So it lends
(31:16):
a coherence to organizationsthat goes beyond your product or
your services or somethinglike that. It really cements why
we exist and what we're tryingto get done around here.
Right. You know, and it'ssomething that you just, you know,
you're thinking like, youknow, those stakeholders, the people
that. It's the people thatyou're touching, the people that
are impacting. And it's alsowho are those people that have a
(31:39):
perceived value of what yourcompany is or what you were doing,
need to be included in someway, shape or form? Because you might
think that everybody thinksthat your company is, you know, raging
amazing, but in actuality,they have a different opinion.
Yeah, completely. Completely.I often will go, I'll test the companies
(32:02):
and they'll say, why do peoplechoose you over your competitors?
I'll say this, that I'll get alot of great marketing feedback.
I'll say, well, let me go talkto some customers. You know, why
did you pick them? I oftendon't hear the marketing back, which
I hate to depress, you know,great marketing professionals, but
I don't hear the advertisementback. I hear different things. And
that's the kind of stuff thatneeds to be back, taken back and
(32:26):
important. You know, I'll makeanother point because something you
said raised in my mind, whichis another strategic activity. I
think all leaders need to workin areas which is stakeholder management.
You know, we tend to spendtime as leaders with people that
are in close proximity to usor with whom we're really familiar
or that work for us. And whatleaders really need to do is make
(32:53):
and cultivate relationshipswith stakeholders outside of their
enterprise. Because if youwait until you need a relationship,
it's too late to format. Andso I think I always tell people,
I'm like, get out of theoffice. There's so much to do around
here. I don't care, you know,go to that industry happy hour. Go
take your competitors to. Letmy competitors. Yes, take your competitor
(33:13):
to lunch. You'll be amazed athow much they'll talk about, you
know, just because they wantto talk. But get to know people outside
of the company that can havesome influence or impact on your
future because you want tohave a relationship with them, you
know, when you're going toneed it.
I am so happy that you saidthat. So I 100% agree. And I think
(33:40):
that is so criticallyimportant. And I actually just had
a conversation with one of myreally great friends who's a CMO
of a company, and we weretalking about how, you know, and
I actually just. I did a poston this, too, is that leaders like
(34:00):
you as a person at a company,you need to be able to get yourself
out of the company to meetother people, because no offense
to companies, it's not like itused to be where you were employed
by X company for your entirecareer. Right. So things happen,
(34:21):
companies get sold. You don'tknow what's, you might not be in
the C suite knowing what'shappening. And even if you are in
the C suite, you might bethere one day and all of a sudden
you're out. But if you don'thave those relationships, Right.
It could take you years tofind another job. But if you have
(34:42):
the, like, if you can pick upthe phone and say, hey, John, Jacqueline,
you know, whatever I, youknow, we connected, this is where
I am, whatever it is. And youbuilt a relationship.
Right.
So critical.
Yeah. And I think that's thekey thing. As you've implied, the
best strategic relationshipsare non transactional.
(35:04):
Yeah.
They're not, they're notthere. I'll scratch your back, you
scratch mine there. Those are,you know, I tell people you have
three, I tell executives youhave three buckets of relationships.
You have your, your personalnetwork, which is great, that's like
your personal board ofdirectors, people that get, you know,
you can give you advice. Thenyou have your operational network,
which is the 10 or 12 peopleyou need to touch every day to get
(35:24):
your job done. And that's kindof chosen for you. But your strategic
network is up to you. Andthat's a set of people that you don't
necessarily rely on day to dayto be successful. But you know them,
they know you, you respectthem, they respect you. They'll take
your call, you'll take theircall. They'll do things for you,
you'll do things for them withno, you know, implicit reward that
(35:46):
day. But you just, you eachmatter to each other and that's.
If you can build those kind ofrelationships, they always stand
you in good stead. So you, youknow, you asked you what, what is
a set of strategic activitiesother than planning for the company
people can do in their lives?I tell executives, you know, build
those leadership networksoutside of your business.
(36:09):
Yeah. And it's true. So I, mypost or my, I did a, I don't know
if it was a post or wrote,wrote about it, whatever, but it
was on that point. But alsodon't hold your network to yourself.
Yes. Yeah, that's right. Ithink you actually gain power by
giving it away.
Yeah.
There was a very famous woman,you probably heard her, Heidi Roizen
(36:32):
in Silicon Valley. And Heidibecame basically the relationship
broker during Silicon Valley'sformative years. And she, you know,
literally introduced BillGates to, you know, Steve Jobs and
things like that. And shewould have spaghetti dinners that
she would make herself and herkids would be running around pajamas
at her house in Palo Alto. Andeverybody would come because Heidi
(36:55):
was an honest broker. Shewould just say, you have to know
Jacqueline, you guys have alot in common. You get along. I could
see ways you could help eachother. And so to be a relationship
broker, to build thoserelationships is, is a powerful thing.
And if you guard your networkand refuse to use it, then it atrophies,
(37:18):
right?
Yeah. And so, you know, and I,and I think it's so important and
I, so I feel like leaders, asyou're listening, remember you, you're,
you're leading people, you'retrying to be strategic and by leading
people to, and helping, youwant to help those people in your
fold also be strategic inwhere they want to go with their
(37:39):
life. You're the leader,right? So to me, it's like help them
be the best they, that theycan be.
That's right. That's right. Ionce, I was running a company once
and I stood up a highpotential program for, you know,
our up and coming younger vicepresidents who had extraordinary
(38:00):
potential. And a couple of theolder executives were like, gosh,
what are you doing? You know,you're, you're going to wake them
up to their own potential andthen they're going to leave. And
it happened. A couple of them,you know, realized how amazing they
were in the course of these,this training and they did leave.
And I said, don't, don'tworry. They're going to be in our
(38:21):
network forever and some willeven come back. But, but the people
were viewing their highpotentials as just a great worker
as opposed to someone whocould be developed and do more as
if they were just a, you know,slower, smaller, slightly better
smelling horse. Right. Justpull your wagon. And, and, and no,
(38:45):
I, I don't, you know, in, in aknowledge economy, you can't treat
people that way. So I, youknow, I'm for the more I've helped
people unlock potential, themore I've been rewarded in the enterprises
I'm leading, it always comesback. It's not just karma, it's just
good business.
Right? So I'm sure youprobably have read it, but Bob Berg
(39:06):
wrote Givers Gain or GoGivers. Right? So Bob was, was a
guest on the podcast and hisepisodes coming out, but great. Like
the whole philosophy, right,of being able to, to give without,
you know, detaching from anoutcome, like there's no outcome
(39:26):
of the, you're not. You'renot. It's not a transactional give.
Right. Just to give. Like, Iwant to help you. Who can I connect
you with? This is exciting,right? Like, right. I mean, that's
like, to me, like, that spillsmy cup. John, I could talk to you
for hours because I love thisstuff. I love talking about leadership.
I love talking about strategyand helping our leaders. So tell
(39:48):
everybody where they canconnect with you. Find your book.
Which I. I will also just sayI will actually put a link to the
book in the show notes too.
But yeah, you see the books onAmazon or wherever you get your or
your books, all the various,every format, it's out now in audible.
I think the audible, it shouldbe popping out next week or so, but
(40:09):
it's on Spotify and AppleIbooks and all the rest of it. And
then my website'sjohnhillan.com and you can see some
of the work I do there andsome of the things I write about
there. But yeah, it's great.I'm just, I'm excited, you know,
to be on your show, first ofall, but I'm also just excited to
help bring other leadersalong. When I look out at the world,
whether it's the businessworld or other parts of the world,
(40:30):
I'm like, we need more peoplewho are operating thinking about
themselves as leaders, who arethere to help others and help organizations.
And I think that propels thewhole human enterprise forward.
Yeah, you know, it truly does.It really truly does. So I. John,
I have loved having you as aguest listeners, please do me a favor.
(40:52):
Click the link that's going tobe in the show notes and get his
book, go check out his workbecause he's truly amazing. And then
please do me a favor. If youhave enjoyed this episode, please
make sure you have hitsubscribe and also share this episode
with your business friends andcolleagues, because that is so important.
The more we can create betterleaders, the better world we will
(41:13):
create. So this is theUnstoppable Success podcast. I'm
your host, JaclynStrominger,and thank you, John, for being an
amazing guest.
Thank you.
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