October 2, 2025 • 30 mins
Today, we dive into the world of leadership and authenticity with our guest, Susan Hensley. Susan, a transformational coach, speaker, and author, shares her insights on how leaders can navigate change with greater creativity and resilience. We discuss the importance of being transparent and authentic, especially when feeling overwhelmed, and how this builds trust within teams. Susan emphasizes that effective leadership involves not just managing tasks, but fostering a space for vulnerability and self-reflection. Join us as we explore practical strategies to elevate your leadership approach and create a more engaged and trusting team environment.
In this episode, we unravel the transformative power of creativity and self-reflection in leadership. Susan Hensley introduces the notion that art can serve as a therapeutic tool for leaders grappling with anxiety and stress. By engaging in creative activities, such as journaling or painting, leaders can tap into their emotions in a way that traditional methods may not allow. Susan recounts her own journey with art journaling and how it aided her in processing difficult emotions during chaotic times, like the COVID-19 pandemic. We discuss the benefits of expressing oneself creatively, as it can quiet the inner critic and promote a sense of curiosity and playfulness, essential for effective leadership in ever-changing environments. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills through creativity.
Takeaways:
- In this episode, we discuss the importance of authentic communication in leadership, which fosters trust and connection among team members.
- Susan Hensley highlights how leaders can navigate life transitions with creativity and resilience, making the process more joyful for themselves and their teams.
- Journaling and art can be powerful tools for leaders to process emotions and reflect on their experiences, providing clarity during challenging times.
- We explore how vulnerability in leadership allows teams to see their leaders as relatable humans, ultimately strengthening team bonds and trust.
- The conversation emphasizes the significance of balancing logical thinking with creativity in leadership to adapt to rapid changes in today's world.
- We share practical tips on how teams can establish guiding principles that encourage ownership, humor, and camaraderie while navigating challenges together.
Links referenced in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:40):
Well, hello everybody, andwelcome to another episode of Leap
to Lead.
I'm your host, Jacqueline Schuminger.
And on this podcast, we helppeople elevate their connections,
create deeper courage, andcreate also greater impact.
And today I have an amazingguest on Susan Hensley.
And let me just give you alittle background on Susan as I pull
(01:03):
up her bio.
So just to give youbackground, she is actually quite
amazing.
So Susan is a transformationalcoach, speaker, and author.
She is dedicated to helpingpeople navigate life transitions
with joy, creativity, and resilience.
She has decades of experiencein corporate and corporate executive
and leadership coaching.
Now, she also draws on herextensive background in hr, her coaching
(01:26):
and journalism to pursue hermission, which is to empower people
to unlock their inner wisdom,creativity, and sense of play during
times, times of uncertaintyand change.
So, Susan, welcome to the podcast.
I'm so glad to have you on.
Oh, thank you, Jacqueline.
I'm really, really happy to be here.
These are my favorite topicsabout how we can be more present
(01:50):
and better leaders.
What are some of the habits wecan build to, to lead us to, you
know, the success path we'remeant to be on?
Yes.
Right.
So with your experience, I'dlove to hear your take, you know,
that we're, we want to helpour listeners, you know, with nuggets
of, of how they can take thatleap to lead.
(02:13):
And in your experience, youknow, with hr, how have you found
or what has your coaching beento help those leaders, you know,
make a shift so that they notonly elevate themselves, but elevate
their team?
Yeah.
You know, it's a, it's a greatquestion because I think there's
(02:40):
a pretty simple answer.
But it's hard to do like all,like all truths, and it is to be
as authentic and transparentwhile being professional.
So sometimes I think peopleconfuse authenticity and transparency
(03:02):
with dumping their freak out.
Right.
Like when we get stressed.
It's very true andtransparent, but it doesn't mean
you have to hear everyterrifying thought.
In my mind, what you need tohear is, I'm really overwhelmed at
this moment.
I need to step away and get mythoughts in order.
(03:26):
I find that when leadersbecome, and I will say I'm going
to use the word like reallypresent, I just become exceptional
at self awareness and selfmanagement because in the pace of
the day, things are coming inand out, right?
There's, there's texts,there's emails, there's meetings,
(03:46):
there's people trying tocontact you from every conceivable
source right on your computer.
There's all these differentthings going on to be able to take
a moment and express when theoverwhelm, when the irritation, when
the frustration that we all experience.
Right.
(04:07):
We weren't built to have thismany distractions and have our attention
pulled in so many directions.
We just haven't evolved inthat manner to be able to step away
and regroup.
I was meeting with a clientjust last week and this individual
has moved into a C suiteposition and is really struggling
(04:29):
with the learning curve andwhere to focus.
And we were talking, we spenta lot of time about going big picture
to narrow picture, butallowing time and going back and
forth and even sharing,whether it's a drive by into the
office, it's a text, andwhat's the discipline of not looking
(04:50):
at them?
What's the discipline ofcalendar management?
Allowing yourself time to askyourself, where am I?
Am I in a learning mode?
Am I in a doing mode?
Am I in a delegating mode?
Am I in a communicating modewill just help.
It's very hard to do, but thatsimple, transparent communication,
(05:13):
I think is the difference.
That was a long answer.
No, no, no.
It's a. Yeah, yeah.
But going back to it, that'swhat I think it is.
I think it's so important whatyou just said too, and there's parts
of it in there to being ableto share the vulnerability when you
as a leader are feeling thatoverwhelmed to be able to say to
(05:36):
your team, hey guys, you know what?
I need a minute.
I don't mean to close thedoor, but I need to regroup.
It also shows your team thatyou're human.
Right.
And that builds trust.
Right, Right.
And, and it's true.
You don't need to throw up onpeople as to what's coming out of
(05:56):
your brain or the.
Or.
And I don't want to, I don'twant to say fears, but like, I don't
know, a leader who doesn'thave the fear of leading or the imposter
syndrome or like, why am I here?
Like we always people secondguess, but you're there for a reason
and you've gotten there.
We need to believe inourselves, but we don't need to throw
up our, our, the negativethoughts on the team.
(06:19):
We just need to let the teamknow we need a minute.
Right.
Yeah.
I think that is one of thosethings that has been.
Well, it's hard to get right.
Because.
Right.
In understanding that acertain amount of vulnerability and
authenticity is what buildstrust, what builds commitment, what
(06:39):
creates those engagement bondsthat leaders want.
It is hard to figure out whatthat looks like.
And in the self discipline ofI need a minute sharing I feel X
it whatever way and then doing it.
There's.
It's important todifferentiate because people want
(07:03):
to follow a leader who appearsto have vision and, and command but
not be commanding and controlling.
Right.
In our most fearful selfdoubting moments.
Because to your point we allsuffer from imposter syndrome and
for a long time I think manypeople think they are the only ones.
It's really interesting.
In the years and years ofcoaching I've done, everyone feels
(07:29):
it but when they share it withyou it's like their own shameful
secret.
Right.
I don't ever, I don't laughthe way I just did with you.
And it's, it's one of thosethings that just that ability to
say there are anyone who saysthey've never felt it.
I actually worry about theirmental, their mental health right
there shows me there isn't.
(07:50):
There may not be anappropriate level of self awareness.
Right.
And it's true but it's, andit's also you know building that
trust is so important andbeing able to reflect on how you
are as a leader.
You know and I, you know it'slike the good, the bad and the ugly
and it's not that it's really ugly.
(08:11):
It's more like what could Ihave done better?
Like I didn't do that great.
But that's okay.
I.
As long as you learn right.
Like if you keep doing thesame habit over and over again, maybe
we've got an issue.
But if you can learn from itand even let your team know, hey
you know what, I didn't do that.
Very well that that selfreflection allows once again it builds
(08:38):
trust and it can also helpyour team level set you.
They may say you may have bevery hard on yourself.
I've certainly seen teams sayactually understand it wasn't that
bad or in the next time we cando this.
I, I think there's a tool Ireally like to use in a and I'm not
(09:00):
always a huge fan of like funteam building exercises.
I like teamwork that's aroundsetting guiding principles where
we're really working on howwe're going to work together.
I think it's terrific to, tohave fun together and to know each
other differently.
But I have found the mosteffective team exercises as a leader
is where we really cometogether and say how are we going
(09:22):
to manage certain things andallowing the team to create three
to five guiding principles.
I mean I'VE had ones aboutruthless prioritization, you know,
assume misalignment becausethat gets people moving into a difficult
project with a certain amountof grace, if you will.
One team came up with bitchand moan and move on.
(09:45):
You know, sort of excuse my,my language, but there was a major
change going on with a lot ofregulation and things people didn't
like.
Right.
That felt like it was beingdone to them.
Right.
If any of your listeners workin a highly regulated environment.
Right.
And that really helped.
It became an acronym andpeople would just recognize it and
(10:08):
realize they needed to move on.
So that, that act of workingwith teams as the leader, where you
come up with, if you will,three to five key catchphrases on
your guiding principles, itbecomes a shorthand and it creates,
if you will, a, almost a graceand a way to move through when we're
not and, and our team membersaren't our best and highest selves.
(10:32):
Right.
You know, I absolutely love that.
And listeners, I think,please, like that is such a huge
insight and because it does acouple of things.
Right.
So number one, it gets yourteam working together.
Right.
That's number one.
Number two, you as a leaderaren't saying we're doing it this
(10:54):
way.
Right.
And the great leaderincorporates a team and lets them
figure it out and come up with it.
So it, they own it.
That's that ownership, thatcamaraderie, them making up the funny
acronym that they understand,the, the posting it, the shorthand
(11:18):
binds that team and you toeach other more quickly than any
other activity I've, I've seenbecause it's very easy to, you know,
you have a planning meeting ora strategy meeting or you do an off
site, I don't know, you do anescape room, you do a ropes course,
whatever.
Different things come in and out.
All good.
I have seen in the years.
(11:39):
And it was a consultant thatintroduced this to me.
So it's not my original thing.
Once I Learned it about 20years ago, every single team, whether
it was international teams,whether it was cross functional teams
for major softwareinstallations, whatever it was, we
would do it.
And the teams consistentlyloved it.
(12:00):
And as a leader, it took theonus quite honestly off me from being
the answer person and said,this is actually how this team team
likes to work.
These are their phrases.
And it was really a greatchance for me to empower the team,
but also understand how itfit, how they wanted, if you will,
to be led.
(12:21):
Yes.
And that's so important.
So I keep thinking of that.
I love that.
Mona Move on.
That is like.
I'm like, did they call it BM Squared?
Bmm?
I'm like, you know, yes, they did.
They did A squared.
And they actually put it onmugs at one point.
I love it.
And they would just smile whenthey would see it.
And then it was a largecompany and then when they would
(12:42):
share it, it also sort ofspread the words.
This is cohesive team.
This is a team that likes each other.
This is a team thatunderstands things are hard.
We may not like them, and it'sa waste of energy.
So it's not that they wouldshut off their mind and say, this
is hard.
They would allow themselvesthat moment, but it wasn't a deep
energy suck.
It was a recognition of, ah, right.
(13:03):
And then.
And move on.
So, yes, that's been one of myfavorites over the years.
I love that.
I totally love that.
So great.
So tell me a little bit.
You know.
You know, I have a book, andin that book, it's actually a workbook.
And we, we created.
There's journal prompts.
(13:24):
And There are also 30 days of reflection.
And I want to talk to you alittle bit.
And because you have your bookart for your sanity.
And it's, you know, it's great.
I need to get a copy of it myself.
I apolog.
I haven't gotten one yet, but.
And I will put a link, by theway, to everybody into the notes
people to grab a link to it.
But I wanted to talk to youabout, you know, the impact journaling
(13:46):
has on leadership because I,you know, obviously I. I totally
believe in it, but I'm curiousas to how you came to that conclusion
as well and also acted on it.
Sure.
I have journal since I was ayoung adult.
My first career was intelevision journalism.
(14:07):
I've had two fairlysignificant careers.
So I've always used that tohelp me process written journaling.
And I think it's amazingbecause it takes the noise in your
head, slows it down, gets itout, puts it on a page and allows
you to start to release whatyou're feeling and start to gain
(14:28):
some reflection.
Because it's usually neverquite as bad.
And sometimes it takes a whileto burn off whatever the intense
emotions you're feeling are ifyou're in a really good place and
you're writing things you'regrateful for.
Right.
That just continues to promotewhat's working.
Well.
There's a tool I use with alot of my clients which, once again,
(14:49):
none of this is original.
I gained it in a certificationscore which is really the weekly
wisdom download.
And it's as much what worked,what didn't and sort of the why,
what's the reflection?
Was it my headspace?
Was it an ill conceived,whatever, facilitation, meeting,
project, who knows?
And then what do I wish I had done?
(15:10):
What were the places where Iwish I had been braver, quieter.
Right.
Whatever that may be.
That's a great tool.
Where are playing with art forme came in.
So having used the tools, Ijust talked to the written reflection
and then sort of the weekly review.
(15:31):
I started playing with artjournal with art few years ago.
I had a colleague probablyeight, nine years ago now.
But a great, I mean time goesby so fast.
Terrific side hustle as anartist, right.
This is well before COVID Andfew of us were standing around, you
know, at work talking.
Everyone's like, I can't drawa stick figure.
And she's like, hey, come overon a Saturday.
(15:53):
We'll have some wine, cheese, whatever.
I'll spend a couple hours.
I'll teach you guys somethingabout art.
So I went over two hours.
I remember it was a rainySaturday and she was teaching there,
only about four or five of us.
The color wheel.
And I sat in the corner withsome paint and I just started to
play.
It was like my inner 5 yearold came alive.
I. I made, literally, I made abrown mess.
(16:13):
I didn't wait for the paint todry and I managed to get like, you
know, purple and blue and red.
It was brown.
Loved it.
And in all of my, my coaching,my journaling, the self reflection,
it's the biggest tip I havefor people who do that work is what
sparks joy, what just lightsyou up.
And I recognize that play.
I was at a point in my liferaising a family.
(16:35):
I was executive big, I mean big.
Everything I had no play.
I had like nothing I wouldreally consider even a hobby because
of the pace of my life.
And so I just started tosimply play with art.
Inexpensive art supplies, thestuff you get at the whatever dollar
(16:56):
store target, right?
Wherever you Michael, whereveryou get stuff.
But very inexpensive.
So it didn't kick off theinner artist.
And I'd spend a few minutesjournaling, but I would sit there
with a crayon sometimes whileI was, you know, quite honestly waiting
for water to boil.
I'm making pasta for dinner, right?
Or something.
And instead of maybe pickingup my phone and scrolling or doing
something else, I would startto, to draw and really double down
(17:20):
during COVID I worked allduring COVID Very difficult time
to be Working for those thatwere fortunate enough to be employed.
The work was really hard andvery chaotic during that time.
And I found that playing withart, similar to writing, but the
art gave me the endorphins, ifyou will, and the dopamine hits of
(17:42):
play.
But it was also capturingfear, quite honestly, rage, frustration
in a really safe way, andhelping me to process difficult emotions
much more quickly than thewritten journaling did.
And afterwards.
Right.
Many years later, I ended upwriting the book, doing the research
(18:03):
about why was this even moreeffective for me and other people.
And it's because play silenceis the inner critic.
Many times when I'mjournaling, my critic is still going
and I'm analyzing the playingwith color.
The plane with art wascreating a place to.
(18:24):
To process that emotion, butreally from a point of curiosity
and what's next?
And also, I mean, it's.
It seems to be out there everywhere.
And the research shows it thatone of the best antidotes to anxiety
is creativity.
And inadvertently, all thoseyears ago, that's what was helping
(18:44):
because I was very anxiousduring that Covid period, both for
the people in my life, some ofthe people in my life, elderly people,
people with health issues, thework, job, and moving to creativity
just quelched that anxiousmind I had.
So in that sense, I think aperson experiencing a lot of anxiety,
(19:06):
moving to something creativecan really help to manage it almost
better than breathingexercises and other things, because
you've got an output that'sbased on sort of, if you will, play
and curiosity.
Yeah.
You know, and I.
As you're talking, I'mthinking about the high school student
(19:27):
or the college student or whatever.
And, you know, it's the, youknow, the, the doodle drawing.
Right.
That you.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
And as.
And.
And how that for so manypeople, while they're listening into
a lecture, they'll doodle notbecause they're bored, because it
(19:49):
helps calm nerves.
It helps them.
You know, it's like thatfidget, like.
Right.
Yeah, Something so I can.
I mean, I used to.
You know, that's what I justkept thinking about.
It's like.
It's that.
That ability to calm down and.
And draw something and, And.
And then if you take it tothat next level of play.
I also think about how so manypeople use art as a way to calm what's
(20:23):
in their mind from somethingthat has negatively happened or something
like the big trauma thing.
So I'm ab.
Absolutely.
And I was just looking at somebody's.
You know, I went on ToFacebook to check something this
morning, because I wascommenting on somebody and I wanted
to see how they were doing,because sometimes that's like the
only way you can communicatewith people, but that's a whole other
(20:45):
story.
And I just saw somebody's post.
The art actually caught my eye.
And what was the art was thisgentleman has IDF soldier came back
and he has created justbeautiful art.
(21:05):
And he said, like his postwas, I needed to come.
What was in my head.
Yeah.
And.
And there's.
And.
And I'm thinking about so manyother artists that have been out
there that you have doneamazing things.
And a lot of it comes from thecalming the head, the brain.
(21:27):
Yeah.
No, Jacqueline, you'reabsolutely right.
It is.
I mean, art therapy for.
For children, for peoplesuffering from ptsd, for people who've
had, you know, extreme trauma.
What art does, and there'sreally good research out there, is
it gives voice to things wecan't actually articulate because
(21:49):
it is tapping into the.
What your body is feeling,what you can't maybe even process.
The art journaling that.
That I did and what I love andwhy I always say art journaling,
similar to your writtenjournal, you don't show it to anyone.
So some of these people, theseamazing things are.
People put them out in theworld and this.
(22:12):
The plane with it.
And why I love it is when it'sjust for you, there is no.
There's no judgment.
There's no judgment.
And you're able to staycurious and playful and just express.
If I want to draw a littlescreaming faces, if I want to draw
hearts.
And I really.
In the workshops and differentthings I teach, I have people go
back to what they used todoodle and doodlings key as a kid
(22:36):
or in high school, because weall sort of have.
Go to symbols.
And it's funny as I've donethese workshops, people have different
things.
Bunnies, trees, houses,geometric shapes, you know, hearts,
whatever it may be.
Because it was a form ofrelaxation and a way to help you
focus.
And you.
You said it beautifully.
You're sort of taking thatnervous energy, so then your mind
(22:57):
can either listen in thelecture or focus.
And you're doing somethingwith that.
That energy that is soothing.
Right?
Yeah.
So.
So I'd love to kind of bringthis back to.
Also to leadership, because how.
How do you.
Or I should say, not even justleadership, but.
But actually leaping to thatlevel of next level of success.
(23:20):
Right.
So how do you.
How do you feel that this doescreate that impact to help somebody
take A leap, sure.
I think where I have seen itbe most effective is during times
of change and transition.
So whether you are taking anexpic job, taking a different assignment,
(23:45):
going through extremelyturbulent times in your, your, your
business, whatever that maylook like, providing yourself with
an outlet doesn't need to bemore than 10 minutes a day where
you can become aware of whatyou may not be giving voice to.
Because we all have ideas inour head called success scripts of
(24:06):
what it looks like to be aleader, what it like to be successful.
Right.
We get those from when we'rechildren, from, you know, from families,
from teachers, TV shows.
TV shows, right.
Think of all the messages weget of what it looks like.
You've got that running in theback of your head, which in many
cases can be running againstwhat needs to happen, what is true
(24:29):
to you, the environment you're in.
I mean, we're in times that ifyou're running a business are really
unknown, depending, you know,but different economic headwinds
and, and pressures.
And I think it's importantpeople find a way to, if you will,
get into their right brain,that more holistic and intuitive
(24:52):
side.
Because in business we tend touse and in leadership, the left brain
all the time, the very, very logical.
I think if you can balance it,you become a much stronger leader.
And it really does help you ifyou will make that leap to the, to
the next level.
And we're living in a periodwhere that's really critical people.
We all need to make a leap toadjust to what is changing very quickly,
(25:18):
whether it's because of AI orrather it's the, the different environments
we're in.
It's.
I think it's really imperativewe make a leap.
And using our whole brain isreally important.
I don't know that that thisclear A to B to C, C works because
we really haven't seen beyonda certain point.
(25:38):
Right.
I, you know what?
You know, I so appreciate thisbecause I think it is so important
to help leaders.
Become humble and.
Right.
I was trying to think of whatthat word was.
It makes you humble.
It humbles you when you canactually sit down and reflect and
(26:04):
take that time.
It's amazing what it does.
Amazing what it's so important.
So, Susan, I could talk to youfor absolutely hours.
I think what you are doing isabsolutely fantastic.
And helping people using theircreativity and make it come out is
so important because I thinkit also helps do something like take
(26:25):
this and put it away.
And that is huge.
Right.
I mean, look at us.
They're not more than twoinches from us, and yet the time
without it.
And I so appreciate this conversation.
Is, yes, we're looking at eachother, although, you know, we are
apart.
But no one's checking their phone.
Mine's on silence.
And the level of presence yourecognize most of the day.
(26:45):
You're not doing that if you.
If you wear a smartwatch.
Like, I do it.
It's vibrating all day.
I put mine on theater duringour conversation, just.
And it feels like a spa treatment.
That's the worst thing is ourattention's become so fragmented
that to have this time justwith you talking to Jacqueline with
no buzzing and vibrating anddinging is like a massage.
(27:09):
Right.
You know, and it's so funnythat you say that about, like, the
watches.
I had a watch.
I used it for.
I. I love to cycle and beoutside and hike and, you know, I'm
a goofy nut tracking not mysteps, but my.
Like, how many calories.
Yeah.
Like, I really need to.
But whatever.
(27:29):
But I was.
Even though I put it on silentand like.
And even the vibration, Ididn't want that.
I don't want to know.
I want it on like that.
Do not disturb.
I want no contact.
And I found that I becomehyper aware when I see or having
a conversation with somebodyand they do this.
(27:51):
Yeah.
And honestly, for me, that's a flag.
Like, because now I think justwhat you just said, you're not actually
listening.
As soon as that buzzes, you'velost concentration, and you are not
focusing on this conversationor the conversation we're having,
(28:14):
your mind starts to gosomeplace else.
And so if we can help calm thebrain with that, help people take
the buzzing off and be morepresent, I think it's going to be.
It's a beautiful thing.
I do, too.
I. Yeah.
Jack and I couldn't agree withyou more.
(28:34):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
All right.
So, Susan, how do peopleconnect with you?
Learn more about all of yourgreatness and wisdom?
Sure.
Easiest way is my website,which is just susan-hensley.com.
there's a contact me button.
I answer any and all questionsthat the books there, you know, videos.
(28:55):
There's a free PDF on how tostart art journaling.
So that's the best way.
All right, great.
Well, Susan, I so appreciateyou being a guest on the podcast
and listeners.
I'm sure you've gotten greatwisdom and insight from this.
So please do me the favor ofgoing to Susan's website, clicking
on the contact button, andconnecting with her, and then also
(29:18):
make sure that you do me thenext favor, which is hit subscribe
and also share this podcastwith your friends and colleagues
because I will guarantee youthey will get greatness out of this
too and appreciate it.
So I appreciate you Susan forbeing on and this is Jacqueline Strominger.
I am your host of Leap to Leadand thank you all for listening.
Well, hello everybody, andwelcome to another episode of Leap
to Lead.
I'm your host, Jacqueline Schuminger.
And on this podcast, we helppeople elevate their connections,
create deeper courage, andcreate also greater impact.
And today I have an amazingguest on Susan Hensley.
And let me just give you alittle background on Susan as I pull
(01:03):
up her bio.
So just to give youbackground, she is actually quite
amazing.
So Susan is a transformationalcoach, speaker, and author.
She is dedicated to helpingpeople navigate life transitions
with joy, creativity, and resilience.
She has decades of experiencein corporate and corporate executive
and leadership coaching.
Now, she also draws on herextensive background in hr, her coaching
(01:26):
and journalism to pursue hermission, which is to empower people
to unlock their inner wisdom,creativity, and sense of play during
times, times of uncertaintyand change.
So, Susan, welcome to the podcast.
I'm so glad to have you on.
Oh, thank you, Jacqueline.
I'm really, really happy to be here.
These are my favorite topicsabout how we can be more present
(01:50):
and better leaders.
What are some of the habits wecan build to, to lead us to, you
know, the success path we'remeant to be on?
Yes.
Right.
So with your experience, I'dlove to hear your take, you know,
that we're, we want to helpour listeners, you know, with nuggets
of, of how they can take thatleap to lead.
(02:13):
And in your experience, youknow, with hr, how have you found
or what has your coaching beento help those leaders, you know,
make a shift so that they notonly elevate themselves, but elevate
their team?
Yeah.
You know, it's a, it's a greatquestion because I think there's
(02:40):
a pretty simple answer.
But it's hard to do like all,like all truths, and it is to be
as authentic and transparentwhile being professional.
So sometimes I think peopleconfuse authenticity and transparency
(03:02):
with dumping their freak out.
Right.
Like when we get stressed.
It's very true andtransparent, but it doesn't mean
you have to hear everyterrifying thought.
In my mind, what you need tohear is, I'm really overwhelmed at
this moment.
I need to step away and get mythoughts in order.
(03:26):
I find that when leadersbecome, and I will say I'm going
to use the word like reallypresent, I just become exceptional
at self awareness and selfmanagement because in the pace of
the day, things are coming inand out, right?
There's, there's texts,there's emails, there's meetings,
(03:46):
there's people trying tocontact you from every conceivable
source right on your computer.
There's all these differentthings going on to be able to take
a moment and express when theoverwhelm, when the irritation, when
the frustration that we all experience.
Right.
(04:07):
We weren't built to have thismany distractions and have our attention
pulled in so many directions.
We just haven't evolved inthat manner to be able to step away
and regroup.
I was meeting with a clientjust last week and this individual
has moved into a C suiteposition and is really struggling
(04:29):
with the learning curve andwhere to focus.
And we were talking, we spenta lot of time about going big picture
to narrow picture, butallowing time and going back and
forth and even sharing,whether it's a drive by into the
office, it's a text, andwhat's the discipline of not looking
(04:50):
at them?
What's the discipline ofcalendar management?
Allowing yourself time to askyourself, where am I?
Am I in a learning mode?
Am I in a doing mode?
Am I in a delegating mode?
Am I in a communicating modewill just help.
It's very hard to do, but thatsimple, transparent communication,
(05:13):
I think is the difference.
That was a long answer.
No, no, no.
It's a. Yeah, yeah.
But going back to it, that'swhat I think it is.
I think it's so important whatyou just said too, and there's parts
of it in there to being ableto share the vulnerability when you
as a leader are feeling thatoverwhelmed to be able to say to
(05:36):
your team, hey guys, you know what?
I need a minute.
I don't mean to close thedoor, but I need to regroup.
It also shows your team thatyou're human.
Right.
And that builds trust.
Right, Right.
And, and it's true.
You don't need to throw up onpeople as to what's coming out of
(05:56):
your brain or the.
Or.
And I don't want to, I don'twant to say fears, but like, I don't
know, a leader who doesn'thave the fear of leading or the imposter
syndrome or like, why am I here?
Like we always people secondguess, but you're there for a reason
and you've gotten there.
We need to believe inourselves, but we don't need to throw
up our, our, the negativethoughts on the team.
(06:19):
We just need to let the teamknow we need a minute.
Right.
Yeah.
I think that is one of thosethings that has been.
Well, it's hard to get right.
Because.
Right.
In understanding that acertain amount of vulnerability and
authenticity is what buildstrust, what builds commitment, what
(06:39):
creates those engagement bondsthat leaders want.
It is hard to figure out whatthat looks like.
And in the self discipline ofI need a minute sharing I feel X
it whatever way and then doing it.
There's.
It's important todifferentiate because people want
(07:03):
to follow a leader who appearsto have vision and, and command but
not be commanding and controlling.
Right.
In our most fearful selfdoubting moments.
Because to your point we allsuffer from imposter syndrome and
for a long time I think manypeople think they are the only ones.
It's really interesting.
In the years and years ofcoaching I've done, everyone feels
(07:29):
it but when they share it withyou it's like their own shameful
secret.
Right.
I don't ever, I don't laughthe way I just did with you.
And it's, it's one of thosethings that just that ability to
say there are anyone who saysthey've never felt it.
I actually worry about theirmental, their mental health right
there shows me there isn't.
(07:50):
There may not be anappropriate level of self awareness.
Right.
And it's true but it's, andit's also you know building that
trust is so important andbeing able to reflect on how you
are as a leader.
You know and I, you know it'slike the good, the bad and the ugly
and it's not that it's really ugly.
(08:11):
It's more like what could Ihave done better?
Like I didn't do that great.
But that's okay.
I.
As long as you learn right.
Like if you keep doing thesame habit over and over again, maybe
we've got an issue.
But if you can learn from itand even let your team know, hey
you know what, I didn't do that.
Very well that that selfreflection allows once again it builds
(08:38):
trust and it can also helpyour team level set you.
They may say you may have bevery hard on yourself.
I've certainly seen teams sayactually understand it wasn't that
bad or in the next time we cando this.
I, I think there's a tool Ireally like to use in a and I'm not
(09:00):
always a huge fan of like funteam building exercises.
I like teamwork that's aroundsetting guiding principles where
we're really working on howwe're going to work together.
I think it's terrific to, tohave fun together and to know each
other differently.
But I have found the mosteffective team exercises as a leader
is where we really cometogether and say how are we going
(09:22):
to manage certain things andallowing the team to create three
to five guiding principles.
I mean I'VE had ones aboutruthless prioritization, you know,
assume misalignment becausethat gets people moving into a difficult
project with a certain amountof grace, if you will.
One team came up with bitchand moan and move on.
(09:45):
You know, sort of excuse my,my language, but there was a major
change going on with a lot ofregulation and things people didn't
like.
Right.
That felt like it was beingdone to them.
Right.
If any of your listeners workin a highly regulated environment.
Right.
And that really helped.
It became an acronym andpeople would just recognize it and
(10:08):
realize they needed to move on.
So that, that act of workingwith teams as the leader, where you
come up with, if you will,three to five key catchphrases on
your guiding principles, itbecomes a shorthand and it creates,
if you will, a, almost a graceand a way to move through when we're
not and, and our team membersaren't our best and highest selves.
(10:32):
Right.
You know, I absolutely love that.
And listeners, I think,please, like that is such a huge
insight and because it does acouple of things.
Right.
So number one, it gets yourteam working together.
Right.
That's number one.
Number two, you as a leaderaren't saying we're doing it this
(10:54):
way.
Right.
And the great leaderincorporates a team and lets them
figure it out and come up with it.
So it, they own it.
That's that ownership, thatcamaraderie, them making up the funny
acronym that they understand,the, the posting it, the shorthand
(11:18):
binds that team and you toeach other more quickly than any
other activity I've, I've seenbecause it's very easy to, you know,
you have a planning meeting ora strategy meeting or you do an off
site, I don't know, you do anescape room, you do a ropes course,
whatever.
Different things come in and out.
All good.
I have seen in the years.
(11:39):
And it was a consultant thatintroduced this to me.
So it's not my original thing.
Once I Learned it about 20years ago, every single team, whether
it was international teams,whether it was cross functional teams
for major softwareinstallations, whatever it was, we
would do it.
And the teams consistentlyloved it.
(12:00):
And as a leader, it took theonus quite honestly off me from being
the answer person and said,this is actually how this team team
likes to work.
These are their phrases.
And it was really a greatchance for me to empower the team,
but also understand how itfit, how they wanted, if you will,
to be led.
(12:21):
Yes.
And that's so important.
So I keep thinking of that.
I love that.
Mona Move on.
That is like.
I'm like, did they call it BM Squared?
Bmm?
I'm like, you know, yes, they did.
They did A squared.
And they actually put it onmugs at one point.
I love it.
And they would just smile whenthey would see it.
And then it was a largecompany and then when they would
(12:42):
share it, it also sort ofspread the words.
This is cohesive team.
This is a team that likes each other.
This is a team thatunderstands things are hard.
We may not like them, and it'sa waste of energy.
So it's not that they wouldshut off their mind and say, this
is hard.
They would allow themselvesthat moment, but it wasn't a deep
energy suck.
It was a recognition of, ah, right.
(13:03):
And then.
And move on.
So, yes, that's been one of myfavorites over the years.
I love that.
I totally love that.
So great.
So tell me a little bit.
You know.
You know, I have a book, andin that book, it's actually a workbook.
And we, we created.
There's journal prompts.
(13:24):
And There are also 30 days of reflection.
And I want to talk to you alittle bit.
And because you have your bookart for your sanity.
And it's, you know, it's great.
I need to get a copy of it myself.
I apolog.
I haven't gotten one yet, but.
And I will put a link, by theway, to everybody into the notes
people to grab a link to it.
But I wanted to talk to youabout, you know, the impact journaling
(13:46):
has on leadership because I,you know, obviously I. I totally
believe in it, but I'm curiousas to how you came to that conclusion
as well and also acted on it.
Sure.
I have journal since I was ayoung adult.
My first career was intelevision journalism.
(14:07):
I've had two fairlysignificant careers.
So I've always used that tohelp me process written journaling.
And I think it's amazingbecause it takes the noise in your
head, slows it down, gets itout, puts it on a page and allows
you to start to release whatyou're feeling and start to gain
(14:28):
some reflection.
Because it's usually neverquite as bad.
And sometimes it takes a whileto burn off whatever the intense
emotions you're feeling are ifyou're in a really good place and
you're writing things you'regrateful for.
Right.
That just continues to promotewhat's working.
Well.
There's a tool I use with alot of my clients which, once again,
(14:49):
none of this is original.
I gained it in a certificationscore which is really the weekly
wisdom download.
And it's as much what worked,what didn't and sort of the why,
what's the reflection?
Was it my headspace?
Was it an ill conceived,whatever, facilitation, meeting,
project, who knows?
And then what do I wish I had done?
(15:10):
What were the places where Iwish I had been braver, quieter.
Right.
Whatever that may be.
That's a great tool.
Where are playing with art forme came in.
So having used the tools, Ijust talked to the written reflection
and then sort of the weekly review.
(15:31):
I started playing with artjournal with art few years ago.
I had a colleague probablyeight, nine years ago now.
But a great, I mean time goesby so fast.
Terrific side hustle as anartist, right.
This is well before COVID Andfew of us were standing around, you
know, at work talking.
Everyone's like, I can't drawa stick figure.
And she's like, hey, come overon a Saturday.
(15:53):
We'll have some wine, cheese, whatever.
I'll spend a couple hours.
I'll teach you guys somethingabout art.
So I went over two hours.
I remember it was a rainySaturday and she was teaching there,
only about four or five of us.
The color wheel.
And I sat in the corner withsome paint and I just started to
play.
It was like my inner 5 yearold came alive.
I. I made, literally, I made abrown mess.
(16:13):
I didn't wait for the paint todry and I managed to get like, you
know, purple and blue and red.
It was brown.
Loved it.
And in all of my, my coaching,my journaling, the self reflection,
it's the biggest tip I havefor people who do that work is what
sparks joy, what just lightsyou up.
And I recognize that play.
I was at a point in my liferaising a family.
(16:35):
I was executive big, I mean big.
Everything I had no play.
I had like nothing I wouldreally consider even a hobby because
of the pace of my life.
And so I just started tosimply play with art.
Inexpensive art supplies, thestuff you get at the whatever dollar
(16:56):
store target, right?
Wherever you Michael, whereveryou get stuff.
But very inexpensive.
So it didn't kick off theinner artist.
And I'd spend a few minutesjournaling, but I would sit there
with a crayon sometimes whileI was, you know, quite honestly waiting
for water to boil.
I'm making pasta for dinner, right?
Or something.
And instead of maybe pickingup my phone and scrolling or doing
something else, I would startto, to draw and really double down
(17:20):
during COVID I worked allduring COVID Very difficult time
to be Working for those thatwere fortunate enough to be employed.
The work was really hard andvery chaotic during that time.
And I found that playing withart, similar to writing, but the
art gave me the endorphins, ifyou will, and the dopamine hits of
(17:42):
play.
But it was also capturingfear, quite honestly, rage, frustration
in a really safe way, andhelping me to process difficult emotions
much more quickly than thewritten journaling did.
And afterwards.
Right.
Many years later, I ended upwriting the book, doing the research
(18:03):
about why was this even moreeffective for me and other people.
And it's because play silenceis the inner critic.
Many times when I'mjournaling, my critic is still going
and I'm analyzing the playingwith color.
The plane with art wascreating a place to.
(18:24):
To process that emotion, butreally from a point of curiosity
and what's next?
And also, I mean, it's.
It seems to be out there everywhere.
And the research shows it thatone of the best antidotes to anxiety
is creativity.
And inadvertently, all thoseyears ago, that's what was helping
(18:44):
because I was very anxiousduring that Covid period, both for
the people in my life, some ofthe people in my life, elderly people,
people with health issues, thework, job, and moving to creativity
just quelched that anxiousmind I had.
So in that sense, I think aperson experiencing a lot of anxiety,
(19:06):
moving to something creativecan really help to manage it almost
better than breathingexercises and other things, because
you've got an output that'sbased on sort of, if you will, play
and curiosity.
Yeah.
You know, and I.
As you're talking, I'mthinking about the high school student
(19:27):
or the college student or whatever.
And, you know, it's the, youknow, the, the doodle drawing.
Right.
That you.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
And as.
And.
And how that for so manypeople, while they're listening into
a lecture, they'll doodle notbecause they're bored, because it
(19:49):
helps calm nerves.
It helps them.
You know, it's like thatfidget, like.
Right.
Yeah, Something so I can.
I mean, I used to.
You know, that's what I justkept thinking about.
It's like.
It's that.
That ability to calm down and.
And draw something and, And.
And then if you take it tothat next level of play.
I also think about how so manypeople use art as a way to calm what's
(20:23):
in their mind from somethingthat has negatively happened or something
like the big trauma thing.
So I'm ab.
Absolutely.
And I was just looking at somebody's.
You know, I went on ToFacebook to check something this
morning, because I wascommenting on somebody and I wanted
to see how they were doing,because sometimes that's like the
only way you can communicatewith people, but that's a whole other
(20:45):
story.
And I just saw somebody's post.
The art actually caught my eye.
And what was the art was thisgentleman has IDF soldier came back
and he has created justbeautiful art.
(21:05):
And he said, like his postwas, I needed to come.
What was in my head.
Yeah.
And.
And there's.
And.
And I'm thinking about so manyother artists that have been out
there that you have doneamazing things.
And a lot of it comes from thecalming the head, the brain.
(21:27):
Yeah.
No, Jacqueline, you'reabsolutely right.
It is.
I mean, art therapy for.
For children, for peoplesuffering from ptsd, for people who've
had, you know, extreme trauma.
What art does, and there'sreally good research out there, is
it gives voice to things wecan't actually articulate because
(21:49):
it is tapping into the.
What your body is feeling,what you can't maybe even process.
The art journaling that.
That I did and what I love andwhy I always say art journaling,
similar to your writtenjournal, you don't show it to anyone.
So some of these people, theseamazing things are.
People put them out in theworld and this.
(22:12):
The plane with it.
And why I love it is when it'sjust for you, there is no.
There's no judgment.
There's no judgment.
And you're able to staycurious and playful and just express.
If I want to draw a littlescreaming faces, if I want to draw
hearts.
And I really.
In the workshops and differentthings I teach, I have people go
back to what they used todoodle and doodlings key as a kid
(22:36):
or in high school, because weall sort of have.
Go to symbols.
And it's funny as I've donethese workshops, people have different
things.
Bunnies, trees, houses,geometric shapes, you know, hearts,
whatever it may be.
Because it was a form ofrelaxation and a way to help you
focus.
And you.
You said it beautifully.
You're sort of taking thatnervous energy, so then your mind
(22:57):
can either listen in thelecture or focus.
And you're doing somethingwith that.
That energy that is soothing.
Right?
Yeah.
So.
So I'd love to kind of bringthis back to.
Also to leadership, because how.
How do you.
Or I should say, not even justleadership, but.
But actually leaping to thatlevel of next level of success.
(23:20):
Right.
So how do you.
How do you feel that this doescreate that impact to help somebody
take A leap, sure.
I think where I have seen itbe most effective is during times
of change and transition.
So whether you are taking anexpic job, taking a different assignment,
(23:45):
going through extremelyturbulent times in your, your, your
business, whatever that maylook like, providing yourself with
an outlet doesn't need to bemore than 10 minutes a day where
you can become aware of whatyou may not be giving voice to.
Because we all have ideas inour head called success scripts of
(24:06):
what it looks like to be aleader, what it like to be successful.
Right.
We get those from when we'rechildren, from, you know, from families,
from teachers, TV shows.
TV shows, right.
Think of all the messages weget of what it looks like.
You've got that running in theback of your head, which in many
cases can be running againstwhat needs to happen, what is true
(24:29):
to you, the environment you're in.
I mean, we're in times that ifyou're running a business are really
unknown, depending, you know,but different economic headwinds
and, and pressures.
And I think it's importantpeople find a way to, if you will,
get into their right brain,that more holistic and intuitive
(24:52):
side.
Because in business we tend touse and in leadership, the left brain
all the time, the very, very logical.
I think if you can balance it,you become a much stronger leader.
And it really does help you ifyou will make that leap to the, to
the next level.
And we're living in a periodwhere that's really critical people.
We all need to make a leap toadjust to what is changing very quickly,
(25:18):
whether it's because of AI orrather it's the, the different environments
we're in.
It's.
I think it's really imperativewe make a leap.
And using our whole brain isreally important.
I don't know that that thisclear A to B to C, C works because
we really haven't seen beyonda certain point.
(25:38):
Right.
I, you know what?
You know, I so appreciate thisbecause I think it is so important
to help leaders.
Become humble and.
Right.
I was trying to think of whatthat word was.
It makes you humble.
It humbles you when you canactually sit down and reflect and
(26:04):
take that time.
It's amazing what it does.
Amazing what it's so important.
So, Susan, I could talk to youfor absolutely hours.
I think what you are doing isabsolutely fantastic.
And helping people using theircreativity and make it come out is
so important because I thinkit also helps do something like take
(26:25):
this and put it away.
And that is huge.
Right.
I mean, look at us.
They're not more than twoinches from us, and yet the time
without it.
And I so appreciate this conversation.
Is, yes, we're looking at eachother, although, you know, we are
apart.
But no one's checking their phone.
Mine's on silence.
And the level of presence yourecognize most of the day.
(26:45):
You're not doing that if you.
If you wear a smartwatch.
Like, I do it.
It's vibrating all day.
I put mine on theater duringour conversation, just.
And it feels like a spa treatment.
That's the worst thing is ourattention's become so fragmented
that to have this time justwith you talking to Jacqueline with
no buzzing and vibrating anddinging is like a massage.
(27:09):
Right.
You know, and it's so funnythat you say that about, like, the
watches.
I had a watch.
I used it for.
I. I love to cycle and beoutside and hike and, you know, I'm
a goofy nut tracking not mysteps, but my.
Like, how many calories.
Yeah.
Like, I really need to.
But whatever.
(27:29):
But I was.
Even though I put it on silentand like.
And even the vibration, Ididn't want that.
I don't want to know.
I want it on like that.
Do not disturb.
I want no contact.
And I found that I becomehyper aware when I see or having
a conversation with somebodyand they do this.
(27:51):
Yeah.
And honestly, for me, that's a flag.
Like, because now I think justwhat you just said, you're not actually
listening.
As soon as that buzzes, you'velost concentration, and you are not
focusing on this conversationor the conversation we're having,
(28:14):
your mind starts to gosomeplace else.
And so if we can help calm thebrain with that, help people take
the buzzing off and be morepresent, I think it's going to be.
It's a beautiful thing.
I do, too.
I. Yeah.
Jack and I couldn't agree withyou more.
(28:34):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
All right.
So, Susan, how do peopleconnect with you?
Learn more about all of yourgreatness and wisdom?
Sure.
Easiest way is my website,which is just susan-hensley.com.
there's a contact me button.
I answer any and all questionsthat the books there, you know, videos.
(28:55):
There's a free PDF on how tostart art journaling.
So that's the best way.
All right, great.
Well, Susan, I so appreciateyou being a guest on the podcast
and listeners.
I'm sure you've gotten greatwisdom and insight from this.
So please do me the favor ofgoing to Susan's website, clicking
on the contact button, andconnecting with her, and then also
(29:18):
make sure that you do me thenext favor, which is hit subscribe
and also share this podcastwith your friends and colleagues
because I will guarantee youthey will get greatness out of this
too and appreciate it.
So I appreciate you Susan forbeing on and this is Jacqueline Strominger.
I am your host of Leap to Leadand thank you all for listening.
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