November 13, 2025 • 30 mins
Today, we dive into the vibrant world of happiness and the habits that can help us cultivate it, featuring the insightful Michelle Phillips, a happiness and performance expert. Michelle shares her journey of turning personal challenges into a blueprint for success, encapsulated in her book, "Happiness is a Habit." We discuss how small, consistent habits can lead to significant changes over time, and why it's crucial to start with manageable steps. From physical activity to emotional check-ins, Michelle emphasizes the importance of understanding our feelings and making intentional choices. Join us as we explore practical strategies to enhance well-being, create meaningful connections, and ultimately lead a happier life.
Today, we're diving into the exciting world of habits and happiness with our guest, Michelle Phillips, a seasoned happiness and performance expert. Michelle emphasizes that happiness is not just a fleeting emotion but a choice we make through our daily habits. She shares insights from her book, "Happiness is a Habit," highlighting 44 simple rituals that can boost our energy and well-being, proving that small changes can lead to significant impacts over time. We discuss the importance of starting small, the power of saying no, and how to cultivate meaningful connections in both personal and professional lives. Join us as we explore how to elevate our connections, courage, and overall impact on the world around us!
Takeaways:
- Happiness is a choice that can be cultivated through simple daily habits, such as exercise and mindfulness.
- Creating impactful connections at work requires understanding each individual's strengths and encouraging their growth.
- Establishing boundaries and the ability to say 'no' is vital to maintaining a balanced and fulfilling life.
- Implementing small, manageable habits can lead to significant positive changes over time, especially regarding personal well-being.
- Regularly checking in with your emotions can help identify areas for improvement and foster greater happiness.
- Surrounding yourself with positive, growth-minded individuals can significantly influence your happiness and success.
Jaclyn Strominger welcomes Michelle Phillips, a seasoned entrepreneur and author of "Happiness is a Habit," to discuss the importance of happiness and daily rituals in achieving a fulfilling life. Michelle shares her personal journey, which includes overcoming challenges in her marriage and discovering the power of habits to maintain her sanity and joy. She emphasizes the significance of making small, manageable changes in our routines, such as eating healthier or exercising, and how these can accumulate over time to create a happier and more productive life. This episode dives deep into the neuroscience of happiness, the importance of choosing joy, and how we can all take actionable steps towards a more positive mindset. Michelle provides listeners with valuable insights on identifying their own habits and the right steps to nurturing their happiness, making it clear that happiness is indeed a choice we can all make.
Takeaways:
- Happiness is a habit, and incorporating small daily rituals can significantly improve our well-being.
- Identifying and nurturing our emotional state is crucial for achieving personal happiness.
- It's essential to set realistic goals and start small to build effective habits over time.
- Surrounding ourselves with positive and growth-oriented individuals can enhance our happiness and success.
Links referenced in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:40):
Well, hello everybody, andwelcome to another amazing episode
of Leap to Lead. Elevatingconnections, courage, and creating
greater impact. I am yourhost, Jaclyn Strominger. And today
I have the amazing guest toshare with you, Michelle Phillips.
And let me share with you alittle bit about her background.
So first of all, Michelle isthe president of Key Performance.
(01:05):
She has a 25 yearentrepreneurial voyage that has etched
an enduring mark on thecorporate, corporate world. I can
speak today. She has a amazingbook called Happiness is a Habit.
Simple daily rituals thatincrease energy, improve well being,
and add joy to every day,which is so important. And as a happiness
(01:27):
and performance expert, sheblends neuroscience habits and positive
psychology, offering anactionable formula for success. Michelle,
I am so glad to have you onthe podcast. So welcome.
Hello. I'm happy to be here.Hello. Thank you for having me, Jaclyn.
All right, so I have to askbecause happiness is a key. It's
(01:53):
a choice in a lot of ways.Right. So what got you to, to write
this book?
Yeah, of course. Write that.What's the Carpenter song? The best
love songs are written with abroken heart. I'm dating myself,
but I love that line. It'seven before my time, that song.
I love the Carpenters, butlisteners are like, if you don't
(02:16):
know, I'm just going to share.I will put a link in there because
they are like an old, I.
Think that, I mean, I was akid, but I remember that line. The
best love songs are writtenwith a broken heart.
Right?
So it's like when you're inthat point, when you realize what
got you through this point. Soin my early life, in my 20s, I just
wanted to be fit and sexy andhealthy. So I learned how to work
(02:36):
out, how to eat right. So Iwas on this trajectory of habits.
And then I was learning how tomanage my finances, relationships,
all these different things,career. And then I was happily married
until I wasn't. And when, youknow, I chose to leave the, the marriage,
which was in a horriblemarriage, it just wasn't satisfied
(02:57):
anymore. We were just growingin different directions. I realized
the things that kept me sanein my most brokenhearted time were
my habits. I always went tothe gym. I always ate good food.
I had a really strong circleof support with family and friends.
I had amazing playlists on myipod. I read books that inspired,
(03:18):
motivated, and educated me.And then I was, I went, I even went
to another seminar where theywere saying all the things I was
doing and I was like, I'mwriting my own book.
Right?
This is the recipe I've beenusing to keep me solid, even though
I'm sad. And it could be arecipe other people can use. So it's
44 habits. They're my habits.But I say you pick and choose which
(03:43):
ones resonate with you andthen you try them on and you be the
judge.
I absolutely love that. Andokay, so we have kindred spirits
here because I. Because whatyou've just said, you know, that
those habits, you know,exercise, eating well, reading. Although
I will say I will add to that.Like, sometimes I will binge watch,
(04:06):
like, you know, law type showslike csi.
Because I don't know like why,but because they're addicting.
Because they're addicting.Like, stop. It's like my, I guess,
you know, my bad habit.Whatever, my advice, but. But it's
so true. Like, we talk a lotabout those habits. Like getting
(04:30):
up in the morning, you know,doing something that gets your heart
going. It's so important, it.It actually releases those endorphins
and it puts a smile on yourface and it keeps you going.
And the studies have shownthat if you engage in something mental,
physical, spiritual andemotional a few times a week, you
actually feel better. So thepremise of the book was if you pick
(04:54):
one little thing like eat anapple for 90 days, then eat, then
walk around the block, whathappens is if you just pick one small
habit that's easy that youcan't fail at, in five years, you
will have accumulated 20powerful habits. And habits are the
things you do without thinking.
Right? And something that youjust said too, that's also really
(05:15):
important that I want peopleto understand, that is really like
a quintessential thing. Picksomething like, start small and do
it. Do a little bit. It's likeyou can't decide today that you're
going to go run the marathonnext week. You have to start small
(05:39):
to build up and do somethingthat you can do.
Like, that's why we fail,because people, they hold themselves
to unrealistic standards. I'mgoing to meditate every single day.
Well, you probably aren't. OrI'm going to run around the block
or I'm never going to eatchocolate. It's like, give yourself
a break. You know, if the moreof the time you're consistently doing,
(05:59):
working out, eating, and youhave an ice cream oven, you know,
your life isn't going toshatter, but you're on the right
trajectory versus people tryon January 1st to just, you know,
cold turkey or whatever. Andthat's why they fail.
Right? So how do you work withyour. With clients? And what do you,
you know, what do you know?Because, you know, we want to help
(06:20):
people take that leap, youknow, so what is the biggest? You
know, pick one. But how do youget them to pick?
Yeah. Yeah. Good, good. Reallygood question, Jaclyn. So I have
a survey. I have aquestionnaire that I give all my
clients, and it's pretty long,but it's just like me. I call it
Me Incorporated. It's all thestory of your life, you know, who
(06:40):
are you? What's working,what's not working, what do you want
more of? What do you want lessof? You know, So I just. There's
all these questions and whatthe beauty of the questions, I tell
them I want you to. Not. Iwant you to use paper to pen. Pen
to paper.
Pen to paper, Right. Yep. Yeah.
I want you to sit down withyour favorite beverage of choice
away from your computer, yourdesk, and I want you to answer these
(07:02):
in longhand because I want youto slow down. And what bubbles up
are themes. So throughout thecourse of three or four pages of
writing, the theme might be,you know, added confidence or decisiveness
or, you know, speaking mytrue. Whatever it is. Or it could
be I just need to move my bodyor learn French. I mean, I've got
(07:23):
everything. So from that, wepick two to three goals to work with
in our coaching relationshipthat we're going to. And then, like
you, I've been doing this somany years. I'm like a wealth of
information. I just. Once Iknow what you need. I'm like Edward
Scissorhands. I've got a. I'vegot an exercise. I've got a book,
I've got a TED Talk. And, youknow, they. They have exercises they
(07:43):
do and work, work on whilewe're working together.
So, you know, when you'rethinking about people being happy,
you know, are there, like. Arethere signs almost that you could
say to somebody like, youknow, you can talk to somebody and
be like, maybe they could usea little bit more happiness, or there
(08:05):
might be. Well, it's not thatit's stamped on their forehead. Right.
But I like to sit in. I'm inairports a lot, as I know you are,
and I sit in the airportsometimes and I just look around
at people, and you could justlook at people and know who's having
a good day and who's not orwho's having a. People. We wear,
you know, we wear our energyon our face. And in a recent airport
(08:28):
episode, I was Watching thesetwo little children from across this,
you know, the, the carpet justhaving the best time with each other.
And I'm thinking they're thehaving the most fun of everybody
in this whole airport becausewe take ourselves so seriously and
I think we've become such anachievement oriented culture. Like,
you know, how many likes doyou have and did you post today and
did, you know, I get caught upin it and I'm like, oh my gosh, am
(08:51):
I happy? Am I breathing? Did Iput my feet in the grass? So you
know, for me, I'm a believerthat people should come to me. I
don't go to you. So even if aCEO or a leader of a team says, michelle,
I want you to work with Dave,I'm like, does Dave want to work
with me? So that's thechemistry fit call. And I talk about
(09:12):
how I work and if Dave's upfor this, I'm ready to go. But really
I want people. I always sayI'm looking for the believers. If
you don't believe in this, ifyou don't think working out or reading
or is gonna then move on tosomebody else.
Right, right. It's, you know,it's, you know, what you just said
is so true. We wear our energyon our faces and our, you know, and,
(09:34):
and just made me think about,you know, how many people don't walk
around smiling.
Yeah. I've been told I smiletoo much because seen as weakness
or I don't know what it's seenas, but I'm like, I don't know what's
wrong with smiling.
I tend to try to make surethat we're smiling more often because
then you find that you're morelike, you're more open. Right. So,
(09:57):
so when you're talking topeople, I mean this is like, to me,
it's such a huge thing becausethe impact it has on somebody's life
is, is huge. I mean it hassuch a huge impact. So what are some
of those key things that likeif somebody's thinking like maybe
(10:21):
asking them the question, likeam I happy? Like when do I know that
I might need to changesomething because maybe I'm not really
happy? Like, what are the signs?
Yeah, there's two things Ijust ask people to really pay attention
to the when are you laughing?When are you smiling? You know, really
(10:42):
start to notice what you'redoing in those moments. Again, we're
such a achievement rushingculture in the West. You know, I
got 15 minutes to meditate,then I'm going to yoga and, you know,
and I'm like, we're kind ofmissing the point. So I asked my
clients, I want you to askyourself two questions repeatedly
(11:03):
during the day. I want you totake a stop. How am I feeling? The
shamans have a saying. If youcan name it, you can tame it. So
what am I feeling? Because wedon't even check in with how I'm
feeling. Am I feeling anxious?Am I feeling overwhelmed? Am I feeling
content? Am I feeling sad? Andthen am I happy with my results?
(11:24):
And if you're. If the answerto one of those questions doesn't
satisfy you, then you need todo something different. And it really
is about the now moment. It'snot about the past moment or the
future moment. And sometimes Ithink happiness definitely gets a
bad rap. I love how Esther sixsays, nobody's asking you to put
a smiley sticker on your emptygas tank and keep driving. It's not
(11:46):
just ignore it and smile. It'swhat's causing me this angst, this
overwhelm. And if you canidentify it, then that's what I like
to teach my clients. If I'mfeeling overwhelmed either, I've
said yes to too many things.I'm trying to do. Overwhelm is a
choice, I always tell people,because I can only do so much at
(12:08):
once, and I'm trying to do toomuch. I'm saying I'm going to do
more than I actually can. So,again, it's really starting to name
your emotion, then name theemotion you want, which is writing
your outcome. I want to becalm and confident. I want to feel
calm, confident, in control,and then saying, okay, well, if I
want to feel calm, confident,in control, what's my next action?
(12:32):
My next action is I have tocancel an appointment, change an
appointment, make some whitespace on my calendar. You know, something
that gives you the. I feellike we went off on a tangent, but.
So happiness is, you know, howyou're feeling, right? People don't
even check in there.
And that's. You know, I thinkthat's. And listeners, I think this
(12:52):
is actually just the thingthat two things that you just said
are so important. Number one,put white space on your calendar.
But. But. But. Or let's makeit not white space. Let's, like,
pick a color code that you canuse that, you know, when you see
that color code on yourcalendar, it means, like, walk away.
It means get up and walk. Itmeans, you know, take a little, like,
(13:14):
happy dance or something.Right? You know, Right. Like, you
know, like, move, right? Andlike, get up. I mean, we all can.
I mean, you know. You know,myself included. Like, there are
times when you're just like, omy God, I haven't gotten up off my
chair. You know, my butt'sgotta be really flat right now. Right?
Cause it's. You know, andthat's why I say, go outside. Breathe.
(13:37):
We overschedule ourselves.We're ridiculously overscheduled.
And the other key thing is tosay no. Right. And so how do you
get your clients to say no?
Yeah, so years and years ago,when I started this work, we were
still using. I was using myFranklin Covey paper calendar, and.
And I used to go to the Monthat a glance page, and I would take
(13:59):
a yellow highlighter, and Iwould write no over the whole month
to remind myself that I havethe option to say no. And with my
clients, I do this. I do. Youknow, I say to put it on their phone.
Put. You have to write theword no. No is a full sentence someplace.
And do not respond torequests. Immediate walk away. Let
(14:23):
me get back to you. I mean,nobody calls each other. Usually
it's an email or something, atext. So it's looking at your calendar
and really being honest withyour space. Does this. Yes, I want
to do it, but does it fit intowhat I have right now? And I think
that is such a key thingbecause I look at people's calendars
and I say, when do you havetime to do your work? You're in a
(14:44):
meeting, you're in meetings.Like, sometimes they stay. Someone
told me the other day, Ischeduled three meetings at 11. I'm
like, unless you have somemagic pill I don't know about, why
did you do that to yourself?So it's really. I think a lot of
this craziness and chaos is wecreate ourselves by not being able
to say no.
Right. Don't. Right. And. And,you know, in that same vein, like,
(15:09):
what I. What I love aboutbeing able to say no is, are you
being able to look at what youhave and what you want, and does
it align with where you wantto go? Right.
Really important. Especiallywhen you hit on something. Really.
With me. The clearer you are,your vision and goals and what you
(15:34):
stand for, your intentions,the more you're capable of saying
no to things that take you offcourse. That's really powerful. You
might be good at a lot ofthings, but are they in track with
where you want to be going? SoI love that. Yes.
Yeah. And, you know, and. Andso, you know, I. I love this whole
conversation because and, andI'll share this, like, right now.
(15:54):
And this actually literallyhappened yesterday. We have some
backyard stuff going on. I wasgone for three weeks on a vacation.
Right. And while I was away.
That's fabulous.
Yeah, it was, it was totallygreat. I highly recommend people
go away for three weeksbecause the first week you're still
like trying to struggle, liketo, you know, break down and like
(16:18):
decompress. And then the nextweek you're really on vacation. Like
the next, you know, you get tocalm down. Anyway, really great.
But what was reallyinteresting is that I, you know,
I, I had connected peopletogether to work on the outside the
project while I was gonebecause I didn't want me to. Me being
away to hold it up, right? No,no, no. Didn't work. And so it came
(16:40):
to a point, like literallyyesterday came to a head. I literally
was trying to schedule allthis stuff that was supposed to have
already been done by thepeople that were doing the work.
And I literally said to one ofthe people who was actually calling
the most angst, I said, I'mdone. I said, I went away. I said,
(17:03):
this is all supposed to becoordinated. It is not my job. This
is not my job to coordinatethis stuff. And the person whose
job it is has tried to connectwith you to coordinate and you have
been non existent. And so I'mputting everything on hold. I'm putting,
like, I just can't do this.
(17:24):
Take a breath, take a breath.
Like literally take a pause.And it was amazing. You know what
you're like, like that energy.And, and I'm sharing this because
once I said that the. Yourealize, like, I'm just saying no.
Like, and, and that no waslike, I can find somebody else who
can do it. There's. There'sother, there are other people out
(17:46):
there that can do that work. Ifound somebody. I've said no to him.
And the calmness when you'retalking, like the angst that I was
sharing. And the thing is thatI'm. Even though this is a. And this
is a personal thing, but itwas creeping into my business. Like,
I literally sat there and Ithought, this is, this is causing
(18:11):
me not to get work done. Thisis causing me not to do the things
that I need to do. So I lovethat you are working with your clients
on this because it is soimportant. Because sometimes and
we don't realize that angstthat is happening and you can't even
think straight.
(18:31):
So I always say, what? Youknow, for me, the other thing I always
say when I'M in overwhelm. I'mnot connected to what I call my Einstein
brain. Right. So I know I'mnot making my best decisions. I'm
not being my most creative. Soevery time I'm like, Michelle, you're
out of alignment. You need totake that pause, come back because.
And again. And I work with alot of really high profile people
(18:52):
and I know you do that arejust go, go, go. And it's like morning
till night and thenentertaining at night and then the
next day. And it's likethere's no time that creative brain
space that being. And Ireally, I have. So I work with some
really pretty cool leadersalso that know that and that them
modeling this for their peopleis so important that it does affect.
(19:16):
Because our personal andprofessional lives are connected.
Yes.
And it's, you know, are you inthat? You know, I call it like your
course. Like when you're ontwo feet, you're steady and strong,
but if you're standing on oneleg, you're off balance. Most people
are living their life off. Ialways say they're living on the
rumble strips. Like thoserumble strips are there to say you're
(19:37):
going off course, like getback to the center. But we, we just
think it's normal to be crazyin back to back meetings and not
breathe. And it's such acultural thing. Recently I was at
a client and I think I bookedmy flight for the next morning at
like noon because I didn'tfeel like getting up at the crack
of dawn and run into theairport and the night before. And
(19:58):
they said to me, do you wantto ride to the air the morning? I'm
like, oh no, no. I realized Iwas a little embarrassed to say I
was going to take a leisurelymorning. And I thought I do this
for a living. I tell that. Butthat this stigma about like oh, I'm
going to sit in bed and havecoffee and then go work out and you
know, get, you know. So it'sjust so interesting that I catch
(20:19):
myself, you know, taking my,you know, sometimes I had to take
my own advice.
Right, right. Well, that'swhat we have to do. But what you
just said too, I think is soagain listeners, this is like a quintessential
thing. Modeling the behaviorthat you mod is your people, your
peers, the people that yousurround yourself. You know, it's
(20:39):
what it. What takes to being agood leader. Not just leading. And
you have to lead yourself first.
Yes.
And then lead others and nottell lead difference. Right. And
when people can Model. That's huge.
And that's a big thing. It's,you know, I, I, so many people want
(21:01):
to lead other people beforethey lead themselves. So, you know,
I, I like to do checkups withpeople. You know, what is your mental,
the way you think is a habit.Your mental, spiritual, emotional,
physical health. And you know,are you physically fit? Are you going
to survive your own success?You know, are you mentally fit? Are
you telling yourself you'relike all the leadership stuff you
(21:22):
talk about, you know,spiritually, do you have a connection
to something greater than you?And emotionally, do you have those
people around you? And again,earlier in my life, I think I was
unconsciously happy. And thenas I started to learn this, these
things, I started lookinglike, well, where is my spiritual
connection? And when it cameto people, I looked at the people
(21:45):
I surrounded myself with. Theywere some really good, hard, sincere
working, you know, hardworking people. But they weren't
very positive, some of them,and they weren't really going where
I wanted to go. So I said,okay, Michelle, I need to make, I
made, I wrote a goal that Iwanted to surround myself with people
that were doing something,growing, expanding. And I literally
(22:05):
started meeting people thatwere three cube rows away from me
at the company I'd been at for15 years, but I wasn't looking for
them. So to anyone listening,it's you look at your spiritual life,
your mental thinking life,your emotional life, who are the
people around you and yourphysical life and then say, can I
make a tweak? Can I make achange? Where, you know, where can
(22:26):
I do something small doesn'thave to be huge to get you a result.
Right? And that is soimportant. And what you just said
too, about surroundingyourself with people who are in,
you know, number one, positivegrowth minded, like, where are you?
(22:46):
And this is really important.Like, and I would share this, like,
if anybody, it, you know, aspeople are even just starting out
in their careers, one thingthat I think is the biggest thing
to think about is making surethat you're also interviewing the
people that you are going tobe working for based on, like, look
at them, are like, are youaligned with them? And ask the questions
(23:07):
of, well, talk to me aboutsome of the other people that you
have been in your fold andwhere have they gone?
That's so good. And years agoI had a boss. It was so funny because
I've always had this balancingin my life. Like, I love working,
but I want, I want balance. Iwant to have a life outside of work.
And I had this one boss and hehired me and he was a workaholic
(23:28):
guy. He worked so hard. And Isaid to him, and as a young person,
so to your point, having thecourage, I said to him, I love this
job, I would love to work withyou, but I do not want to work the
same hours you work. I am okaystaying late once in a while, but
you know, we don't have tostay late every night. This guy was
there till 9 o' clock everynight. Like I would leave him at
(23:50):
6, he'd come in in the morningwith this pages of notes. I'm like,
when did you do that? I just,I left you at like 7 or you know,
6 o' clock last night. Andeven his wife, they had a thing on
Saturdays. His, he only couldstay in the office on Saturdays till
noon. So he was just a realworkaholic guy. And I love him dearly,
but I had the courage to saythat to him and he said to me, okay,
(24:12):
Michelle, I will, you know,honor your, you know, boundaries
and let you, you know, go homeunless it's an emergency. But you,
you can help me take more timeoff and be, you know, less of a work,
you know, working. I workedwith this man for many years and
I laugh. I always think heprobably got more out of me than
I got. But you know, it'shaving the courage to have those
(24:34):
decision, those decisions,those conversations even early in
your career are very important.
And also to interview like asyou're interviewing people, I mean
as you're interviewing forpositions, no matter where you are
and as you're interviewingpeople for positions within your,
in your, on your team, youknow, I look at, I look at leaders
like help your people rise upand help them find their happiness.
(25:02):
Because when people have thathappiness, you know, they operate
together as a family in asense and a good family, like not
your, not the dysfunctional families.
That we probably come from.
Not kidding. But like youknow, you're so aligned with the
goal mind of what everybody isstriving for and you, there's ownership
(25:26):
and so it's like the workhard, play hard and be together to
connect.
Yeah. And that's what'smissing sometimes in this fast paced
world that we live in ispeople think they don't have time
to connect. But I always, youknow, I understand we don't have
every, you know, I always say,who are your key stakeholders? I
want you to Write down your 5to 10 key stakeholders and then I
(25:47):
want you to tell me how muchtime you spent with them. Because
just calling someone up orsending them an email when you need
something is not arelationship. So it's really important
to build those relationships.And again, early in my career I was
blessed to have a boss who didjust that with us. You know, she
would take us in these offsites to beautiful like Mohonk Mountain
House. I don't even know thatI do, I do go to Mohonk for team
(26:11):
meeting and she would alwayspersonalize our gifts at the holidays.
And she really found out whatwas the strength in each of us and
she let us shine in ourstrength. And we're, all of us are
still really close to thisday, I mean, 20 something years later.
But that's the strength ofthose relationships that are not
always built these days in azoom world or you know, telecommuting
(26:35):
or whatever we're doing thesedays. So even just like you and I
were in totally differentareas, but you still, this connection
is real, right? So havingthat, making the time for that is
so instrumental. Yes.
And you know, and what youjust said about that leader who found
out what the strengths are inthis digital world, you can still
(26:58):
do that. Like you can stillfind ways to find out what people's
strengths are and make themfeel that appreciation and make sure
that they feel that sameconnection with the people that they're
working with. There aredefinitely ways to do that digitally.
I mean, obviously it's so muchbetter in person. So many things
are better in person, but thatis such a great experience to have.
(27:21):
And I have a client that doesit really well. I talk about them
all the time. Here I go, I'mgoing to talk about you again. They
have ping pong tables, youknow, in their, in their lunch, canteen,
whatever you call, they playping pong every day. This woman,
I hadn't seen her in a monthand I said to her last time I was
there, I said, wow, you'relooking fit. And she goes, I play
ping pong every day. And I waslike, oh my God. I think it is a
(27:42):
workout, right? And then theyhave tea time. I don't know if it's
once a week or once a month.And it's sometimes it's different
nationalities and it's justtea time, 3 o'. Clock, I can't remember
what time. Everybody goes tothe canteen and they have tea. So
these, these rituals that seemold, maybe old fashioned, you know,
in today's world really buildthe culture, build the community,
(28:05):
build the foundation. And Ilove seeing when companies are doing
it right like that.
Yeah, that is so important.That is. I love that. I absolutely
love that, Michelle. I couldtalk to you for hours and hours and
hours. You're so, like, you'reso amazing and you're so. It's like,
so like just a greatconversation. How can people learn
about you? Get to know you?Get your book.
(28:26):
Yes, yes. So the easiest wayto get me is. Oh, my God, I have
too many websites. Let methink of which I want to. Oh, my
God, I just went blank.Energize. I have so many websites.
Energize, your results.com isthe portal to all of my social media,
all my website. It's reallyjust a landing page at energize.
Your results.com will link youeverywhere to me. And I would love
(28:48):
you to follow me. I would loveyou to connect with me, email me,
and thank you so much, Jaclyn,for having me on.
Oh, my God. It's such apleasure. Okay, so listeners, do
me the favor. Okay? You got acouple favors that you're going to
have to do for me. Number one,reach out to Michelle and actually
go to her website and connectwith her. And then what I also really
want you to do, hit subscribe.And then lastly, I want you to actually
(29:09):
share this episode withfriends and colleagues because I
think it is so important. It'ssuch an important message for friends,
colleagues, leaders to hear.So I really would appreciate that.
So thank you so much for allof you for listening and thank you,
Michelle, for being an amazingguest. I am your host, Jaclyn Schromager.
And again, again, hitsubscribe and keep on listening.
Than.
Well, hello everybody, andwelcome to another amazing episode
of Leap to Lead. Elevatingconnections, courage, and creating
greater impact. I am yourhost, Jaclyn Strominger. And today
I have the amazing guest toshare with you, Michelle Phillips.
And let me share with you alittle bit about her background.
So first of all, Michelle isthe president of Key Performance.
(01:05):
She has a 25 yearentrepreneurial voyage that has etched
an enduring mark on thecorporate, corporate world. I can
speak today. She has a amazingbook called Happiness is a Habit.
Simple daily rituals thatincrease energy, improve well being,
and add joy to every day,which is so important. And as a happiness
(01:27):
and performance expert, sheblends neuroscience habits and positive
psychology, offering anactionable formula for success. Michelle,
I am so glad to have you onthe podcast. So welcome.
Hello. I'm happy to be here.Hello. Thank you for having me, Jaclyn.
All right, so I have to askbecause happiness is a key. It's
(01:53):
a choice in a lot of ways.Right. So what got you to, to write
this book?
Yeah, of course. Write that.What's the Carpenter song? The best
love songs are written with abroken heart. I'm dating myself,
but I love that line. It'seven before my time, that song.
I love the Carpenters, butlisteners are like, if you don't
(02:16):
know, I'm just going to share.I will put a link in there because
they are like an old, I.
Think that, I mean, I was akid, but I remember that line. The
best love songs are writtenwith a broken heart.
Right?
So it's like when you're inthat point, when you realize what
got you through this point. Soin my early life, in my 20s, I just
wanted to be fit and sexy andhealthy. So I learned how to work
(02:36):
out, how to eat right. So Iwas on this trajectory of habits.
And then I was learning how tomanage my finances, relationships,
all these different things,career. And then I was happily married
until I wasn't. And when, youknow, I chose to leave the, the marriage,
which was in a horriblemarriage, it just wasn't satisfied
(02:57):
anymore. We were just growingin different directions. I realized
the things that kept me sanein my most brokenhearted time were
my habits. I always went tothe gym. I always ate good food.
I had a really strong circleof support with family and friends.
I had amazing playlists on myipod. I read books that inspired,
(03:18):
motivated, and educated me.And then I was, I went, I even went
to another seminar where theywere saying all the things I was
doing and I was like, I'mwriting my own book.
Right?
This is the recipe I've beenusing to keep me solid, even though
I'm sad. And it could be arecipe other people can use. So it's
44 habits. They're my habits.But I say you pick and choose which
(03:43):
ones resonate with you andthen you try them on and you be the
judge.
I absolutely love that. Andokay, so we have kindred spirits
here because I. Because whatyou've just said, you know, that
those habits, you know,exercise, eating well, reading. Although
I will say I will add to that.Like, sometimes I will binge watch,
(04:06):
like, you know, law type showslike csi.
Because I don't know like why,but because they're addicting.
Because they're addicting.Like, stop. It's like my, I guess,
you know, my bad habit.Whatever, my advice, but. But it's
so true. Like, we talk a lotabout those habits. Like getting
(04:30):
up in the morning, you know,doing something that gets your heart
going. It's so important, it.It actually releases those endorphins
and it puts a smile on yourface and it keeps you going.
And the studies have shownthat if you engage in something mental,
physical, spiritual andemotional a few times a week, you
actually feel better. So thepremise of the book was if you pick
(04:54):
one little thing like eat anapple for 90 days, then eat, then
walk around the block, whathappens is if you just pick one small
habit that's easy that youcan't fail at, in five years, you
will have accumulated 20powerful habits. And habits are the
things you do without thinking.
Right? And something that youjust said too, that's also really
(05:15):
important that I want peopleto understand, that is really like
a quintessential thing. Picksomething like, start small and do
it. Do a little bit. It's likeyou can't decide today that you're
going to go run the marathonnext week. You have to start small
(05:39):
to build up and do somethingthat you can do.
Like, that's why we fail,because people, they hold themselves
to unrealistic standards. I'mgoing to meditate every single day.
Well, you probably aren't. OrI'm going to run around the block
or I'm never going to eatchocolate. It's like, give yourself
a break. You know, if the moreof the time you're consistently doing,
(05:59):
working out, eating, and youhave an ice cream oven, you know,
your life isn't going toshatter, but you're on the right
trajectory versus people tryon January 1st to just, you know,
cold turkey or whatever. Andthat's why they fail.
Right? So how do you work withyour. With clients? And what do you,
you know, what do you know?Because, you know, we want to help
(06:20):
people take that leap, youknow, so what is the biggest? You
know, pick one. But how do youget them to pick?
Yeah. Yeah. Good, good. Reallygood question, Jaclyn. So I have
a survey. I have aquestionnaire that I give all my
clients, and it's pretty long,but it's just like me. I call it
Me Incorporated. It's all thestory of your life, you know, who
(06:40):
are you? What's working,what's not working, what do you want
more of? What do you want lessof? You know, So I just. There's
all these questions and whatthe beauty of the questions, I tell
them I want you to. Not. Iwant you to use paper to pen. Pen
to paper.
Pen to paper, Right. Yep. Yeah.
I want you to sit down withyour favorite beverage of choice
away from your computer, yourdesk, and I want you to answer these
(07:02):
in longhand because I want youto slow down. And what bubbles up
are themes. So throughout thecourse of three or four pages of
writing, the theme might be,you know, added confidence or decisiveness
or, you know, speaking mytrue. Whatever it is. Or it could
be I just need to move my bodyor learn French. I mean, I've got
(07:23):
everything. So from that, wepick two to three goals to work with
in our coaching relationshipthat we're going to. And then, like
you, I've been doing this somany years. I'm like a wealth of
information. I just. Once Iknow what you need. I'm like Edward
Scissorhands. I've got a. I'vegot an exercise. I've got a book,
I've got a TED Talk. And, youknow, they. They have exercises they
(07:43):
do and work, work on whilewe're working together.
So, you know, when you'rethinking about people being happy,
you know, are there, like. Arethere signs almost that you could
say to somebody like, youknow, you can talk to somebody and
be like, maybe they could usea little bit more happiness, or there
(08:05):
might be. Well, it's not thatit's stamped on their forehead. Right.
But I like to sit in. I'm inairports a lot, as I know you are,
and I sit in the airportsometimes and I just look around
at people, and you could justlook at people and know who's having
a good day and who's not orwho's having a. People. We wear,
you know, we wear our energyon our face. And in a recent airport
(08:28):
episode, I was Watching thesetwo little children from across this,
you know, the, the carpet justhaving the best time with each other.
And I'm thinking they're thehaving the most fun of everybody
in this whole airport becausewe take ourselves so seriously and
I think we've become such anachievement oriented culture. Like,
you know, how many likes doyou have and did you post today and
did, you know, I get caught upin it and I'm like, oh my gosh, am
(08:51):
I happy? Am I breathing? Did Iput my feet in the grass? So you
know, for me, I'm a believerthat people should come to me. I
don't go to you. So even if aCEO or a leader of a team says, michelle,
I want you to work with Dave,I'm like, does Dave want to work
with me? So that's thechemistry fit call. And I talk about
(09:12):
how I work and if Dave's upfor this, I'm ready to go. But really
I want people. I always sayI'm looking for the believers. If
you don't believe in this, ifyou don't think working out or reading
or is gonna then move on tosomebody else.
Right, right. It's, you know,it's, you know, what you just said
is so true. We wear our energyon our faces and our, you know, and,
(09:34):
and just made me think about,you know, how many people don't walk
around smiling.
Yeah. I've been told I smiletoo much because seen as weakness
or I don't know what it's seenas, but I'm like, I don't know what's
wrong with smiling.
I tend to try to make surethat we're smiling more often because
then you find that you're morelike, you're more open. Right. So,
(09:57):
so when you're talking topeople, I mean this is like, to me,
it's such a huge thing becausethe impact it has on somebody's life
is, is huge. I mean it hassuch a huge impact. So what are some
of those key things that likeif somebody's thinking like maybe
(10:21):
asking them the question, likeam I happy? Like when do I know that
I might need to changesomething because maybe I'm not really
happy? Like, what are the signs?
Yeah, there's two things Ijust ask people to really pay attention
to the when are you laughing?When are you smiling? You know, really
(10:42):
start to notice what you'redoing in those moments. Again, we're
such a achievement rushingculture in the West. You know, I
got 15 minutes to meditate,then I'm going to yoga and, you know,
and I'm like, we're kind ofmissing the point. So I asked my
clients, I want you to askyourself two questions repeatedly
(11:03):
during the day. I want you totake a stop. How am I feeling? The
shamans have a saying. If youcan name it, you can tame it. So
what am I feeling? Because wedon't even check in with how I'm
feeling. Am I feeling anxious?Am I feeling overwhelmed? Am I feeling
content? Am I feeling sad? Andthen am I happy with my results?
(11:24):
And if you're. If the answerto one of those questions doesn't
satisfy you, then you need todo something different. And it really
is about the now moment. It'snot about the past moment or the
future moment. And sometimes Ithink happiness definitely gets a
bad rap. I love how Esther sixsays, nobody's asking you to put
a smiley sticker on your emptygas tank and keep driving. It's not
(11:46):
just ignore it and smile. It'swhat's causing me this angst, this
overwhelm. And if you canidentify it, then that's what I like
to teach my clients. If I'mfeeling overwhelmed either, I've
said yes to too many things.I'm trying to do. Overwhelm is a
choice, I always tell people,because I can only do so much at
(12:08):
once, and I'm trying to do toomuch. I'm saying I'm going to do
more than I actually can. So,again, it's really starting to name
your emotion, then name theemotion you want, which is writing
your outcome. I want to becalm and confident. I want to feel
calm, confident, in control,and then saying, okay, well, if I
want to feel calm, confident,in control, what's my next action?
(12:32):
My next action is I have tocancel an appointment, change an
appointment, make some whitespace on my calendar. You know, something
that gives you the. I feellike we went off on a tangent, but.
So happiness is, you know, howyou're feeling, right? People don't
even check in there.
And that's. You know, I thinkthat's. And listeners, I think this
(12:52):
is actually just the thingthat two things that you just said
are so important. Number one,put white space on your calendar.
But. But. But. Or let's makeit not white space. Let's, like,
pick a color code that you canuse that, you know, when you see
that color code on yourcalendar, it means, like, walk away.
It means get up and walk. Itmeans, you know, take a little, like,
(13:14):
happy dance or something.Right? You know, Right. Like, you
know, like, move, right? Andlike, get up. I mean, we all can.
I mean, you know. You know,myself included. Like, there are
times when you're just like, omy God, I haven't gotten up off my
chair. You know, my butt'sgotta be really flat right now. Right?
Cause it's. You know, andthat's why I say, go outside. Breathe.
(13:37):
We overschedule ourselves.We're ridiculously overscheduled.
And the other key thing is tosay no. Right. And so how do you
get your clients to say no?
Yeah, so years and years ago,when I started this work, we were
still using. I was using myFranklin Covey paper calendar, and.
And I used to go to the Monthat a glance page, and I would take
(13:59):
a yellow highlighter, and Iwould write no over the whole month
to remind myself that I havethe option to say no. And with my
clients, I do this. I do. Youknow, I say to put it on their phone.
Put. You have to write theword no. No is a full sentence someplace.
And do not respond torequests. Immediate walk away. Let
(14:23):
me get back to you. I mean,nobody calls each other. Usually
it's an email or something, atext. So it's looking at your calendar
and really being honest withyour space. Does this. Yes, I want
to do it, but does it fit intowhat I have right now? And I think
that is such a key thingbecause I look at people's calendars
and I say, when do you havetime to do your work? You're in a
(14:44):
meeting, you're in meetings.Like, sometimes they stay. Someone
told me the other day, Ischeduled three meetings at 11. I'm
like, unless you have somemagic pill I don't know about, why
did you do that to yourself?So it's really. I think a lot of
this craziness and chaos is wecreate ourselves by not being able
to say no.
Right. Don't. Right. And. And,you know, in that same vein, like,
(15:09):
what I. What I love aboutbeing able to say no is, are you
being able to look at what youhave and what you want, and does
it align with where you wantto go? Right.
Really important. Especiallywhen you hit on something. Really.
With me. The clearer you are,your vision and goals and what you
(15:34):
stand for, your intentions,the more you're capable of saying
no to things that take you offcourse. That's really powerful. You
might be good at a lot ofthings, but are they in track with
where you want to be going? SoI love that. Yes.
Yeah. And, you know, and. Andso, you know, I. I love this whole
conversation because and, andI'll share this, like, right now.
(15:54):
And this actually literallyhappened yesterday. We have some
backyard stuff going on. I wasgone for three weeks on a vacation.
Right. And while I was away.
That's fabulous.
Yeah, it was, it was totallygreat. I highly recommend people
go away for three weeksbecause the first week you're still
like trying to struggle, liketo, you know, break down and like
(16:18):
decompress. And then the nextweek you're really on vacation. Like
the next, you know, you get tocalm down. Anyway, really great.
But what was reallyinteresting is that I, you know,
I, I had connected peopletogether to work on the outside the
project while I was gonebecause I didn't want me to. Me being
away to hold it up, right? No,no, no. Didn't work. And so it came
(16:40):
to a point, like literallyyesterday came to a head. I literally
was trying to schedule allthis stuff that was supposed to have
already been done by thepeople that were doing the work.
And I literally said to one ofthe people who was actually calling
the most angst, I said, I'mdone. I said, I went away. I said,
(17:03):
this is all supposed to becoordinated. It is not my job. This
is not my job to coordinatethis stuff. And the person whose
job it is has tried to connectwith you to coordinate and you have
been non existent. And so I'mputting everything on hold. I'm putting,
like, I just can't do this.
(17:24):
Take a breath, take a breath.
Like literally take a pause.And it was amazing. You know what
you're like, like that energy.And, and I'm sharing this because
once I said that the. Yourealize, like, I'm just saying no.
Like, and, and that no waslike, I can find somebody else who
can do it. There's. There'sother, there are other people out
(17:46):
there that can do that work. Ifound somebody. I've said no to him.
And the calmness when you'retalking, like the angst that I was
sharing. And the thing is thatI'm. Even though this is a. And this
is a personal thing, but itwas creeping into my business. Like,
I literally sat there and Ithought, this is, this is causing
(18:11):
me not to get work done. Thisis causing me not to do the things
that I need to do. So I lovethat you are working with your clients
on this because it is soimportant. Because sometimes and
we don't realize that angstthat is happening and you can't even
think straight.
(18:31):
So I always say, what? Youknow, for me, the other thing I always
say when I'M in overwhelm. I'mnot connected to what I call my Einstein
brain. Right. So I know I'mnot making my best decisions. I'm
not being my most creative. Soevery time I'm like, Michelle, you're
out of alignment. You need totake that pause, come back because.
And again. And I work with alot of really high profile people
(18:52):
and I know you do that arejust go, go, go. And it's like morning
till night and thenentertaining at night and then the
next day. And it's likethere's no time that creative brain
space that being. And Ireally, I have. So I work with some
really pretty cool leadersalso that know that and that them
modeling this for their peopleis so important that it does affect.
(19:16):
Because our personal andprofessional lives are connected.
Yes.
And it's, you know, are you inthat? You know, I call it like your
course. Like when you're ontwo feet, you're steady and strong,
but if you're standing on oneleg, you're off balance. Most people
are living their life off. Ialways say they're living on the
rumble strips. Like thoserumble strips are there to say you're
(19:37):
going off course, like getback to the center. But we, we just
think it's normal to be crazyin back to back meetings and not
breathe. And it's such acultural thing. Recently I was at
a client and I think I bookedmy flight for the next morning at
like noon because I didn'tfeel like getting up at the crack
of dawn and run into theairport and the night before. And
(19:58):
they said to me, do you wantto ride to the air the morning? I'm
like, oh no, no. I realized Iwas a little embarrassed to say I
was going to take a leisurelymorning. And I thought I do this
for a living. I tell that. Butthat this stigma about like oh, I'm
going to sit in bed and havecoffee and then go work out and you
know, get, you know. So it'sjust so interesting that I catch
(20:19):
myself, you know, taking my,you know, sometimes I had to take
my own advice.
Right, right. Well, that'swhat we have to do. But what you
just said too, I think is soagain listeners, this is like a quintessential
thing. Modeling the behaviorthat you mod is your people, your
peers, the people that yousurround yourself. You know, it's
(20:39):
what it. What takes to being agood leader. Not just leading. And
you have to lead yourself first.
Yes.
And then lead others and nottell lead difference. Right. And
when people can Model. That's huge.
And that's a big thing. It's,you know, I, I, so many people want
(21:01):
to lead other people beforethey lead themselves. So, you know,
I, I like to do checkups withpeople. You know, what is your mental,
the way you think is a habit.Your mental, spiritual, emotional,
physical health. And you know,are you physically fit? Are you going
to survive your own success?You know, are you mentally fit? Are
you telling yourself you'relike all the leadership stuff you
(21:22):
talk about, you know,spiritually, do you have a connection
to something greater than you?And emotionally, do you have those
people around you? And again,earlier in my life, I think I was
unconsciously happy. And thenas I started to learn this, these
things, I started lookinglike, well, where is my spiritual
connection? And when it cameto people, I looked at the people
(21:45):
I surrounded myself with. Theywere some really good, hard, sincere
working, you know, hardworking people. But they weren't
very positive, some of them,and they weren't really going where
I wanted to go. So I said,okay, Michelle, I need to make, I
made, I wrote a goal that Iwanted to surround myself with people
that were doing something,growing, expanding. And I literally
(22:05):
started meeting people thatwere three cube rows away from me
at the company I'd been at for15 years, but I wasn't looking for
them. So to anyone listening,it's you look at your spiritual life,
your mental thinking life,your emotional life, who are the
people around you and yourphysical life and then say, can I
make a tweak? Can I make achange? Where, you know, where can
(22:26):
I do something small doesn'thave to be huge to get you a result.
Right? And that is soimportant. And what you just said
too, about surroundingyourself with people who are in,
you know, number one, positivegrowth minded, like, where are you?
(22:46):
And this is really important.Like, and I would share this, like,
if anybody, it, you know, aspeople are even just starting out
in their careers, one thingthat I think is the biggest thing
to think about is making surethat you're also interviewing the
people that you are going tobe working for based on, like, look
at them, are like, are youaligned with them? And ask the questions
(23:07):
of, well, talk to me aboutsome of the other people that you
have been in your fold andwhere have they gone?
That's so good. And years agoI had a boss. It was so funny because
I've always had this balancingin my life. Like, I love working,
but I want, I want balance. Iwant to have a life outside of work.
And I had this one boss and hehired me and he was a workaholic
(23:28):
guy. He worked so hard. And Isaid to him, and as a young person,
so to your point, having thecourage, I said to him, I love this
job, I would love to work withyou, but I do not want to work the
same hours you work. I am okaystaying late once in a while, but
you know, we don't have tostay late every night. This guy was
there till 9 o' clock everynight. Like I would leave him at
(23:50):
6, he'd come in in the morningwith this pages of notes. I'm like,
when did you do that? I just,I left you at like 7 or you know,
6 o' clock last night. Andeven his wife, they had a thing on
Saturdays. His, he only couldstay in the office on Saturdays till
noon. So he was just a realworkaholic guy. And I love him dearly,
but I had the courage to saythat to him and he said to me, okay,
(24:12):
Michelle, I will, you know,honor your, you know, boundaries
and let you, you know, go homeunless it's an emergency. But you,
you can help me take more timeoff and be, you know, less of a work,
you know, working. I workedwith this man for many years and
I laugh. I always think heprobably got more out of me than
I got. But you know, it'shaving the courage to have those
(24:34):
decision, those decisions,those conversations even early in
your career are very important.
And also to interview like asyou're interviewing people, I mean
as you're interviewing forpositions, no matter where you are
and as you're interviewingpeople for positions within your,
in your, on your team, youknow, I look at, I look at leaders
like help your people rise upand help them find their happiness.
(25:02):
Because when people have thathappiness, you know, they operate
together as a family in asense and a good family, like not
your, not the dysfunctional families.
That we probably come from.
Not kidding. But like youknow, you're so aligned with the
goal mind of what everybody isstriving for and you, there's ownership
(25:26):
and so it's like the workhard, play hard and be together to
connect.
Yeah. And that's what'smissing sometimes in this fast paced
world that we live in ispeople think they don't have time
to connect. But I always, youknow, I understand we don't have
every, you know, I always say,who are your key stakeholders? I
want you to Write down your 5to 10 key stakeholders and then I
(25:47):
want you to tell me how muchtime you spent with them. Because
just calling someone up orsending them an email when you need
something is not arelationship. So it's really important
to build those relationships.And again, early in my career I was
blessed to have a boss who didjust that with us. You know, she
would take us in these offsites to beautiful like Mohonk Mountain
House. I don't even know thatI do, I do go to Mohonk for team
(26:11):
meeting and she would alwayspersonalize our gifts at the holidays.
And she really found out whatwas the strength in each of us and
she let us shine in ourstrength. And we're, all of us are
still really close to thisday, I mean, 20 something years later.
But that's the strength ofthose relationships that are not
always built these days in azoom world or you know, telecommuting
(26:35):
or whatever we're doing thesedays. So even just like you and I
were in totally differentareas, but you still, this connection
is real, right? So havingthat, making the time for that is
so instrumental. Yes.
And you know, and what youjust said about that leader who found
out what the strengths are inthis digital world, you can still
(26:58):
do that. Like you can stillfind ways to find out what people's
strengths are and make themfeel that appreciation and make sure
that they feel that sameconnection with the people that they're
working with. There aredefinitely ways to do that digitally.
I mean, obviously it's so muchbetter in person. So many things
are better in person, but thatis such a great experience to have.
(27:21):
And I have a client that doesit really well. I talk about them
all the time. Here I go, I'mgoing to talk about you again. They
have ping pong tables, youknow, in their, in their lunch, canteen,
whatever you call, they playping pong every day. This woman,
I hadn't seen her in a monthand I said to her last time I was
there, I said, wow, you'relooking fit. And she goes, I play
ping pong every day. And I waslike, oh my God. I think it is a
(27:42):
workout, right? And then theyhave tea time. I don't know if it's
once a week or once a month.And it's sometimes it's different
nationalities and it's justtea time, 3 o'. Clock, I can't remember
what time. Everybody goes tothe canteen and they have tea. So
these, these rituals that seemold, maybe old fashioned, you know,
in today's world really buildthe culture, build the community,
(28:05):
build the foundation. And Ilove seeing when companies are doing
it right like that.
Yeah, that is so important.That is. I love that. I absolutely
love that, Michelle. I couldtalk to you for hours and hours and
hours. You're so, like, you'reso amazing and you're so. It's like,
so like just a greatconversation. How can people learn
about you? Get to know you?Get your book.
(28:26):
Yes, yes. So the easiest wayto get me is. Oh, my God, I have
too many websites. Let methink of which I want to. Oh, my
God, I just went blank.Energize. I have so many websites.
Energize, your results.com isthe portal to all of my social media,
all my website. It's reallyjust a landing page at energize.
Your results.com will link youeverywhere to me. And I would love
(28:48):
you to follow me. I would loveyou to connect with me, email me,
and thank you so much, Jaclyn,for having me on.
Oh, my God. It's such apleasure. Okay, so listeners, do
me the favor. Okay? You got acouple favors that you're going to
have to do for me. Number one,reach out to Michelle and actually
go to her website and connectwith her. And then what I also really
want you to do, hit subscribe.And then lastly, I want you to actually
(29:09):
share this episode withfriends and colleagues because I
think it is so important. It'ssuch an important message for friends,
colleagues, leaders to hear.So I really would appreciate that.
So thank you so much for allof you for listening and thank you,
Michelle, for being an amazingguest. I am your host, Jaclyn Schromager.
And again, again, hitsubscribe and keep on listening.
Than.
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