August 4, 2023 • 39 mins
When you're in Venice you must try cicchetti. These tasty bites washed down with local wine are a longstanding food tradition in Venice. Just don't call them tapas. Or a picnic. Learn all about Venetian cicchetti, what to look for and where to try them from the cicchetti queen herself - my friend Monica Cesarato!
Read the full episode show notes here > untolditaly.com/185
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The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke - yes there are two of us!
Read the full episode show notes here > untolditaly.com/185
Support the show
Join our mailing list and get our FREE Italy trip planning checklist - subscribe here | Join us on tour: Trip schedule | Discover our Trip Planning Services | Visit our online store | Follow: Instagram • Facebook • YouTube • Italy Travel Planning Community
The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke - yes there are two of us!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is the Untold Italy travel podcastand you're listening to episode number one hundred
and eighty five. Chatuti and BenVenuti to Untold Italy, the travel podcast
to where you go to the townsend, villages, mountains, the lakes,
(00:21):
hills and coast lines of Bella,Italia. Each week, your host Katie
Clark takes you on a journey ina search of magical landscapes, history,
culture, wine, gelato, andof course a whole lot of pasta.
If you're dreaming of Italy and planningfuture adventures there, you've come to the
right place. Chow friends, welcomeback to Untold Italy, our podcast that
(00:55):
aims to help you build your dreamtrip with inspiration and inside into traveling the
country of Italy from its mountainous topto the toe of its boot. On
this episode, you're in for areal treat as we have my friend Monica
Cesarlato, who I have just namedthe Jacquetti Queen, here to tell you
all about the famous small bites andfood scene in Venice. Monica and I
(01:19):
spent a day together earlier this year, and I don't think I've laughed so
much in my life. We exploredVenice together and dipped in and out of
classic sites and bars, just enjoyingthe magic that is this incredible, unique
city built on water. You willnot find a stronger or more passionate advocate
for Venice and preserving its unique historyand culture. So it's Monica who I
(01:42):
turn to if I ever need reminding, not that I do, just how
special Venice is, or should Isay, I point people in her direction
who maybe think Venice is just atourist trap these days. Spend a day
with Monica and you'll put that thoughtto rest immediately. So let's welcome Monica,
Venetian food expert, podcaster to ahost, author, and general tour
(02:05):
de force onto the show. BennOut to Monica, welcome back to the
Untold Italy podcast. Thank you somuch. It's so nice to be back.
It's so nice to see you aftera while. After the days we
spent together and stuff. Oh mygosh, it was so much fun for
everyone listening. Monica and I hada really beautiful reunion earlier this year and
(02:28):
we just did not stop laughing.As they say. It started the Quiver
coffee, It ended up with ahuge mealive evening that was a long day
but probably one of my best daysever. I loved it. It was
so perfect. It was a perfectday in Venice, I think though.
It was so fun because we hadthis boat ride and Monica was just like
(02:52):
waving at everyone and they knew herlike I thought I was with a celebrity,
with a star. I loved itbecause every time my time was coming
up and I was getting, oh, what are you doing now? Oh
I'm not doing of it? Ohshall we do this then? And as
I say, started with at teno'clock morning, I think I went on
(03:15):
me it was about midnights and belike, oh no, I mean it
was kind of like the best dateever, wasn't it the best time?
I'm planned the day because we didn'tplan it at all. So it was
good and I love it. Ilove and the weather. The weather was
perfect as well, so good.And it was the end of March.
So if you're thinking of going inMarch, we had a great time.
(03:35):
Now, Monica, a lot hashappened since you were last on this podcast
in the middle of that silly pandemic, including you turning into a superstar on
TV. So I love it.Okay, so can you please reintroduce yourself
to our listeners and let them knowall about you, what you do and
(04:00):
what you've been up to. What'sthe Monica plan. So I'm a Venetian
food and travel blogger. I runclasses and foot tours in Venice. Cooking
classes and foot tours in Venice.I am also a podcaster now I got
my own podcast dedicated just to Venice. I have written a book on Chiketi
as well. And oh gosh,I'll do so many things that we talk
(04:24):
about this last time. At thattime, run out of hands how many
things I do. But now let'ssay the mainly I do, I eat
and I talk about what I eatas well, So that's mainly what I
do. And she does it insuch an amazing way. And just I
don't want you to be shy aboutthis, Monica, But you have been
(04:45):
on a few very popular television shows. Likely can you tell everyone what they
were? Why? I have Thebiggest one was the last one that is
with Eugene Livy on Apple TV,very luctant traveler, and I got to
say that I was probably one ofthe best experiences in my life. It's
on the Apple TV at the moment, so you can all watch it and
it's I'm on the episode obviously dedicatedto Venice, and it was a real
(05:09):
pleasure because I got to take himaround to eat chickati, of course,
and to talk about it. Butalso we went through the Jewish ghetto,
so we talked about that as well. And yeah, that was the biggest
one. I did some others before, but this is the most important,
I think, and the most recentas well. I was so proud watching
it. I was I just waslike, that's har Monica. She is,
(05:30):
we know her. I can't believeI got people. How got people
recognize me on the street, ButI feel it's very weird because I got
short haired and I'm not exactly noticeable. But I don't know how people said,
oh you were on TV. Iwas like, yeah, all right,
okay, oh now now I feellike, oh good, okay,
now we wish I could get themoney that goes with We fai him about
(05:51):
that. We come there, wego, we're working on it. We're
working on a Monica. Oh.I mean, really, you did such
a great job. Wasn't just thatyou were there, it was you did
an amazing job. And I wasso proud to know you, and I
was so happy about it. Sohonestly, everyone, Monica is a force
to be reckoned with. And there'sno better person to teach you all about
(06:14):
the magic that is chiquetti than thewoman who literally wrote the book on these
tasty snacks. And she's written inboth Italian and it's coming out in English
very very soon. Manica, somepeople might not know. I mean,
I know this is shocking, butthey might not know what chiquetti are.
So can you let everyone in ontoa little bit of a secret or not.
It's not the secret, but youknow, you guys, not anymore.
(06:38):
It used to be a secret.But when I started, when I
was starting to a thousand and eight, practically nobody knew what chi. I
remember when people used to book myfoot tour and I used to explain it,
it's not just a foot tour,it's about chiquati. But we go
like, wow, So chiket isthat you know, people to take a
(06:58):
shortcut save theyre like, you know, like the tappas. They're not like
tapas. Chickati are a way oflife in Venice. Okay. It's the
way you do a parative. It'sa way you just sample Venetian cooking.
The where the chicketti comes from Latinthat means chicu, and the history goes
back to a long long time ago, probably the same time a Stappas,
(07:21):
because let's remember the Venice in Spainand a strong link. Okay, but
they're not a saying. I needto start from the beginning really, So
the first thing that you know whenyou go around doing chicetti is a forget
about spirits. Everybody has a spiritsabout the spirits. What you need to
have is an umbra that is asmall glass of wine Okay, possibly raboso
(07:46):
like the one that I got youto dry. When you wear with me,
that is a nice Vanetto wine,and possibly when you go around drinking,
the ombra always asks for local wine, the Vanetto wines, because Vanetto
wines are is in any way.So our ombra is a small glass of
wine that is typical of Venice.Now there are a lot of legends of
(08:07):
their, all fake news on aninternet. So the main legend that is
not true says that the Venetian calledour own bra because they used to be
sold underneath a church tower. Theone was sold on an infa church tower
and to keep a one cool.They used to move the stalls with a
shade of a church tower. Sothey used to say Anaberambrada company, let's
(08:28):
go and drink in the shade.As the years when by became anima,
let's go and drink a shade.That's not true, but it's just a
legend. But if you want toknow a true story, you need to
buy a book. I'll tell youthe true story. But then you can
find in the book as well.So literally not very far away in history,
only about two hundred years ago.For Venice, two hundred years is
(08:52):
goos very recent. Let's say thereused to be a local professor in Venice.
I used to let's say, itwas very well loved by your study
of a city for obvious reasons.You know, used to like going around
quite often. And it defined thesmall glass of wine because it's a very
tiny small glass of wine. Okay, it used to define it as a
(09:13):
shade of nothing, because it isone eighth of a litter. And from
him on, in his honor,all of the study of a city starts
to use it as a unit ofmeasurement. And when you order an nombre,
you should always have a chickato.Now, remember the chickaiti of twenty
years ago are not a chickata today. If you came with me twenty years
(09:35):
ago, you would have a brain, liver, tongue, splean, tripe
and you name it. Now,you don't you get you know called you
get sardines, you get octopus,you get all of the fish mainly products
of a city. And we're justlet's say different. Okay, many recipes
(09:58):
are in the book, so youknow, I'm gonna be major propaganda for
the book. The city is comingout in August, so you know.
And the sea. So it wasvery typical for Venians to go back in
the past. Why did they usedto go and drink an umbra and a
chickad Too simple because in Venice wehad a problem that we had because we
don't have a problem anymore, thatthere wasn't any freshwater in the city.
(10:20):
Because it's a city built on stealsin the middle of a salty lagoon.
We didn't have any springs, anyrivers and zones. So Veniians had to
find ways to get freshwater into thecities, and they had two ways.
They had large barges going to themouth of the rivers every day called Burkio.
They used to bring back freshwater intothe city. Remember ladies and gentlemen
(10:43):
delivering the water door to door untilthe early nineteen hundreds. And then they
had these large wells that are massivesystems underground in the campy in all the
main squares of Venice. They werefilled with clay and sand, and the
water filter through the clans and thecollected in a cylinder, but went down
from the base of the beautiful constructionsthat you usually see outside. Now,
(11:07):
the problem involves the system and thebarges was and you just needed one that
rat and you got contaminating water.So the Venizians had to find a way
not to drink contaminating water because youknow, a plague was very big problem
back in the days. So whatdid they do simple? They did well
everybody else before them did. Everytime they drunk and water, the mixed
it with wine because they killed thebacteria. But that would have meant a
(11:31):
lot of drunken people around Venice.So what did they do simple? They
made sure to add a small biteto it every time they drunk, so
they wouldn't get two tipsy let's say, because remember this was done by everybody.
Also show classes, all genders,all ages, including children. Okay,
so it would have been a bita bit harder. We would have
(11:52):
had a lot of lining tower orpizzas in Venetian Tower or pizzas in Venice.
A few splashes in the canal.Yeah, I definitely, definite.
I mean, it's such a greatstory. And the thing is that it's
so unique to Venice. You know, like it does look a little bit
like tapers maybe, but it's totallydifferent flavors and it's a totally immersive experience
(12:18):
and they're much smaller size and originallyso now you see a lot of bread
with toppings, originally wouldn't be likethat. It would have been an egg
with an ounch of it. Itwould have been a bio polenta with some
cheese. It would have been aside dish of the beans and onions.
You know, it would have beentotally different. Now. I mean,
as I said, I did makesure on the book to put both brown
(12:41):
new recipes but also the traditional oldones from fifty one hundred years ago,
so you you know, they're bothfair because I wanted to preserve things,
so you know, and in someof the Yeah, you still find that.
You do still find them, soit's nice. Are there any particular
ones you prefer, which your favorites? Oh? My favorite, well,
definitely back I think is everybody's Venetiansfavorite. But you know it's made with
(13:07):
dry cod, not salt cod.That he's creamed dry cod. And I
would say the octopus and tomato sauce. Yeah, but those are definitely my
favorite. And those are two ofthose that are usually get everybody to try,
even though people look at it willbe funny, and usually I would
say nine out of ten people enjoythem. I always get your odd one.
(13:28):
But I can't please everyone exactly,and you cannot, Like I don't
like everything, so you know it'snot the You know, I don't take
it personally. I don't get offendedwhen it happens. Yeah, I mean
I love the BAA is so yum, so delicious. It's so creamy,
like I think, it's hard toexplain unless you try it, because it's
(13:48):
really whipped, isn't it. Yeah, it's whipped with oil and garlic,
that's it. But it looks likea muse. It looks like very scream
and stubby. That isn't I wouldsay they consistency is like Tina Mayone.
The consistency, but the flavor,I would say it depends on the quality
of the bacca lava they use andhow good the person that makes this as
(14:09):
well. But I would say it'screamier vember and a bit fatter than that
maybe in flavor, but it's unique. Yeah, And it's like marmighty,
you ever like it or you don'tlike it, as simple as that.
It's that is not I don't thinkthat is half way, and I recommend
it to take it with polenta becausethe polenta turns down the strong flavor of
(14:31):
a fish, so it's perfectly balancesout the dish. Yeah. And so
just in case people don't know whatpolenta is, can you let them know
it's corne flower, since when acorner arrived in the Veneto thanks to the
Spanish, you know, then Italyand so on, we actually called polentoni
big eaters of polenta. It's justcorne flower, and you have in many
(14:54):
ways. You go to boiley,of course, and it becomes like a
porridge kind of of you know,assistency first, then you can let it
cool down and it becomes hard,and then you can really or right or
just city soft. When it comesout, Oh it's delicious. M yeah.
Sometimes they put cheese in it.It's like grits. It's it's luckily
like greats about without the grits init, if you know what I'm saying.
(15:18):
Yeah, yeah, and I thinkit. I always like it if
it's got some like Pamesiano Eggiano makesthe inside, or with mushrooms inside like
they're making in Valadaosto Pimonte la la. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean
it's I love all these little differentriffs on. Everyone's got their little take
on how to do these bacala andhow they can make it tastier and put
(15:41):
their own spin on it. It'sso good and each like of the Osterlia,
they all love to have their ownspecialties, don't they like and show
them off. Yeah, but Ithink he's the greatest thing about vechicities that
yes, there are basic recipes,of course, but as you were saying,
everybody gets his own twisting away andthey're never the same. You can
(16:04):
literally go to tennis teria one afteranother you will not eat the same stuff.
They're all totally different, and Ithink it's a great way to do
Vani's without getting too full and reserveyour meal for the evening. So just
go chicated during the day, youknow, hopping, you know, by
hopping in a way, not gettingtoo drunk, not getting too tired,
(16:26):
don't get like the Venetians used todo it. You know, it was
one way not to get you know, to get drowsy, to get a
juggestion going they carry on working.So it was a good way to do
it, you know, good wayto do pub crawling. How much are
they each, because they're like,you know, like it literally you can
hold them in your hands usually,can't you. So the prices are gone
(16:47):
up unfortunately after COVID, because everything'sgone up, so I think now it's
an average of about two euros each. And they're not vesmaal. I mean
when I see when I go aroundwith friends and no we clients, because
we clients that to give them stuffedas much as I can. But when
we go around with friends, weusually can if we have three of them
and a drink or a couple ofdrinks. Well usually, as we call
(17:08):
it, stop a booky, youknow, it does farrel fondo. It
creates a base for all the alcoholthat you're gonna put on top in your
stop. That's what we call it. Okay, that's highs called. Then
how much with that? Like ifyou went out with your friends, it
would be the two like a chiodrinks and three ten euros with a couple
(17:30):
of chickating and a drink and maximumtenuros. We do it? Yeah,
then obviously we go, we proceed. Then it depends if you if you
are with money, I might beeven less and ten. It depends on
what mood of the bartenders are whoI meet. Well, you know me,
yeah, I do. You've beenwith me, so you know.
(17:56):
I think it's the thing is peoplehave this misconception about Venis is really expensive.
This is the budget way. Ifyou want to is you can have
these little picnics everywhere. That is, well, don't fiven picnics because you're
actually sitting down. Okay, they'renot sitting on the floor. Don't do
that, please, please again,we're against picnics in Venice, you know
that. Sorry, Sorry my bad. No. Yeah, Venice can be
(18:21):
as expensive as cheap as you wantit to be. I recommend this.
Save a proper meal for the evening. And there are restaurants of different budgets.
You do not need to go exactlyevery night or find dining restaurants.
There are you know, normal restaurants. Yes, Venice it is more expensive
than other cities. I don't denythis, but then again, the basic
(18:44):
cost of running a business is muchhigher in Venice because everything must come by
water, and the cost of rentalsof the locations is like double than anywhere
else in Italy because of you know, of the locations, historic buildings and
so on. So put that inmind. You know, when a restaurant
opens, he has to keep thiscost into consideration on top of the staff.
(19:07):
So obviously it will cost you,I will say, of thirty percent
more probably to eat in Venice thenanother citizen or other places even just outside
of Venice, you know. Butat the same time, you can eat
properly. I mean, you canhave a good meal for about forty euros,
no problem. Obviously you stop pullingout the wine, the price goes
up. But let's say you canhave a decent meal for about forty euros
(19:32):
a person. That it's not verymuch because consider I went to America and
with forty dollars we didn't even geta drink I'll call you know it was
and the food wasn't exactly. Imean it was good, but if you
wanted to eat well, you gotto spend a little bit more. So
forty euros for venice is not sobad. I would say, you know,
(19:53):
you can spend even less. Butas I say, if you do
it where you move from chickaty tochickaty to k even, you know you
don't get so angry and you canbudget as well better. You know it's
true, and you're just so whenyou're just spending ten years here in ten
years there, you forget exactly andyou're happy of the economy, and you're
spreading the money of your to theeconomy because you're spreading spreading the love you
(20:18):
gave it to the community. You'regiving it to the community. You know.
I love it now, Monica.I know you have so many places
in your book which you recommend,but is there a couple that you can
let our audience in on that youwould like to tell them? Yes,
I'll give you those that I don'tusually take people because they're out of my
itenery. So if they want thoseand my eighteen don't even need to come
(20:41):
with me, now the two verygood ones that they are out of my
eightineries. So I'm very happy toshare them because I found them the very
traditional. So first of all,one in Castello, but nobody ever goes
to the Cestio Castello unless they goto the Biennale. Otherwise it's a very
residential part of any st I thinkis beautiful. And the Venetians are they
(21:02):
gonna hate me because I'm promoting it. But I like to for people to
spread in the cities rather than concentratein some marks. So in Castello vers
an Osteria what is called Osteria Lascuelathat when you walk in, it's like
walking into the sixties. I mean, the people look like from the sixties,
the location looks like from the sixties, the vibe is from the sixties,
(21:25):
and the food is from the sixties. They have a chicken ti like
it used to be, and it'sfull of venitions from you know. You
do see every so often be allthe tourists, but mainly only locals.
And the food is amazing, andoh my god, I if somebody says
to me, oh, Monica,you want that's my first stop. I
(21:45):
always take people there and they doamazing The made tomato stuff, tomatoes,
graten stuff, tomatoes very amazing,very good, and the wines are good
too. And then another one isactually near realto. So everybody keeps saying
that I'm the first one to tellyou a realto. You know, you
(22:06):
get a lot of tourist traps aboveall along the embankment, you know,
the main fundamental But as you oneof the turnings, there is a place
called Australia al Diavolo la qua Santaand that's why you get the best tripe
ever. The gondolier's going to havedinnerware lunch, so you know, and
(22:27):
the chikati are fantastic, but theydon't do just chickaty with waves of proper
food and you can definitely eat itthere. Yeah, the best trap that
I've in my life nearly as goodas my mom's one. Oh that's a
big statement, Monica. Yeah,yeah, from me saying that is nearly
as good as my MoMA. Considermy mom is one of the best go
(22:48):
Cara met in my life. Sheshould write a book. I always says
she should write a book. Mymom doesn't tell me how to make recipe.
My mom shows me when you askher how much do I need to
put? Yeah? That much?I let she show you, you know,
love, so I shouldn't every timeshe does that should be there with
a scale and measure. Yeah,you know how much vet means? They
(23:11):
just know. I told that theother day. I said, Mama,
you know we are really should startwriting now your recipes. She says,
You're never gonna give you my recipes. Grand my grandma did that. My
grandma did that. She has anamazing recipe for a liquor. But she
used to make her with I wantthat leaves lemon zest loads of Grandpa and
(23:33):
the raisins okay baa, And shehad a secret ingredient and she never told
anybody what it was. So therecipe died with her. So we are
all very upset about it. That'snot good. No no, no,
no, no no no. Oh. Now, if our listeners are wanting
to go around on their own,introduce some chicken tea bar hopping around the
(23:56):
Ostilia and the boccado in Venice.Do they these places take card or is
it cash only? So it usedto, because surely, but since COVID,
now everybody takes a car that notAmerican Express, but all the other
cards. Generally they do. Yeah, yeah, now they do because of
COVID. This was introduced in Italyafter COVID, so everybody that used to
(24:17):
take on the cash now has gotto take are forced to take cards as
well. So yeah, you're you'llbe okay, okay. And do you
ever have to line up to getin or is it you know, like,
is there something? It depends onthe place. It depends on the
places some places, and at thetime you go. Obviously if you go
a perative time, that's about sixissue. Yeah, you'll definitely queue in
because and Saturday and Sundays, Friday, Saturday and Sundays because obviously over locals
(24:41):
go to and lunchtime now as well. But if you go off at times,
and you usually don't, and evenif you do, you usually wait
ten fifteen minutes. But then youknow, because people that usually go have
a chickating many people stand up,so you'll have a number, you have
a chicka, took a couple oftalk with your friends or spirits whatever,
and then you walk away. SoI will always give about fifteen twenty minutes.
(25:04):
I mean, you do cute thatare the busy ones where you cue
for an hour, So it dependsand usually if you're so busy, just
walk away or someone else. There'stowns, I mean just in my book
up of thirty or Studier and there'sdub Over, if not three times there
so planty, planty. Yeah,you'll find something. It'll be good and
(25:25):
it's it's honestly not just food.It's part of the cultural experience as part
of being in Venice, and it'ssomething that you should definitely make time to
do because it's very special and youdo. You feel like you're in another
world. You're standing in these ancientbuildings. You've got your little glass of
wine and you hand delicious from thelocal countryside, and you've got this beautiful
(25:47):
taste you're munching into you and youyou can't be at home because they don't
make him at home, you know, even though sometimes they try. I
don't think it's only about eating anddrink of a chickens about so show experience.
I mean, I was talking toa client said to me, you
know in America, for example,in America, they cannot do that.
They cannot just sit there and watch, you know, outside with a drink.
(26:11):
And now they started because of thepandect but before that they didn't,
so there wasn't this idea of justsitting we have a friend having a drink,
talking while watching the people go by. Just to give you an idea
of the other day, I didanother spi another day like I did with
you, with another Italian friend.By the way, she's a local,
so she knew what we were doing, but she loved it. So we
(26:32):
started by going first to Palazzo Grimani, that is one of the most beautiful
museums in Venice. Then nobody goesto and literally it was just me and
air and I can't believe I hada museum for myself at this so many
lives and videos and photos whatever.Then we went to an art exhibition because
of the moment we got the architecturebe analysts, so we went to one
(26:52):
of the free exhibitions there and thenwe decided to go through some chicket and
that's what we did. We justfor about an hour and a half talking
to my friend Barman and talking tothe customers coming in. But then it
was very hot. You know,it's three o'clock in the afternoon, there's
forty degrees in Venice. What doyou do so I look at her and
says, should we just do somepeople watching? So we just went in
(27:18):
campus on the Stephano sat for threeand a half hours, wind and die
by the staff because of course theyall know me, so they keep saying
to me, oh, do youwant to try this new drink? Oh,
do you want to try this newdrink. So by the time seven
o'clock came, I was like totallymore or less because it was out as
well, but it was beautiful andI was talking to her and we really
(27:40):
you know, she was saying tome as well, she doesn't get to
do but she's working all the time. And I think that's a great thing
about Venice that is different from theother city. But you sitting down,
you don't have cars passing by,so you don't want to get a pollution
and smoke and life is so muchslower. So three hours sitting down in
a bar sounds a lot, butit literally flew. We just it just
(28:04):
went by, okay, And Ithink that's one way to really enjoy Van's
to do Venice law. You know, sometimes it's not about piling up or
you know, I need to dothis, I need to do that,
I need to do. It's alsojust to sit down and relax. I
don't know if you agree or notabout it. Well you did it with
me, so I do. Ireally just love Venice. It's it upsets
(28:29):
me when people say they didn't enjoyit, and I wonder what they did.
You know, I'm like, whatwhat did you do? You know?
Because for me it's just you know, that whole you know, relaxing
moment and like finding a little secretpassage away. And I tell you,
I've been saying this a lot,just on repeat. Actually turn off the
(28:49):
GPS please, because you know,I was saying to you, Oh my
goodness, like everyone's got the same, you know, way they're going because
of Google Maps. And then Monicacame along and she was like, no,
we're going this way. And ifwe were, we were weaving in
and out of out of the littlelame ways we were. We got there
in half the time, because youknow, they can't get big Google Maps
(29:11):
cart down through those places anyway,so it's cabably, someone wearing a hat
or something it doesn't know Google Mapsdies anyway through vos Ball alleyways because the
building does at all. But that'swhat we call in Venetia. We call
them scontem they hidden ones, youknow, and just the Venician usually use
them, or the people they actuallymoved to Venice and start to get to
(29:32):
know them and they are I meanI did the same. We have a
friend of mine during Carnival. Atone stage we got started because the Carnival,
of course, the numbers are massive, and we were trying to go
back to St. Mark Square.Unfortunately we had to. We didn't want
particularly to do it, but wehad to, and we got to a
certain point. It was like afunnel, you know, everybody went like
(29:53):
live there and all of a suddenyou couldn't go through. So I looked
at him and said due to askedme, and it looked at me says,
okay, I don't really know whereI'm going, but I know where
I'm going, as in I knowwhere I want to go, and I
know that more or less, cuttingthrough year through year through year, probably
(30:15):
it will take it. It willbe quicker. And we did, even
though I didn't know where I wasgoing, but I had in my mind
the idea where I wanted to endup. So if you get the logistics
of Venice and you understand the north, southeast and west. You can avoid
going through the main rules. ButI do understand that for many people that
grew up in cities where everything islike agreed, agreed, I get it.
(30:40):
It is literally they go into apanic. I totally understand it because
I get told many times by peoplejeneralist Americans, jenneralist Americans. Europeans are
not so much because in Europe,you know, we used to cities that
just were born like mushrooms, goodygoody. You just you just built as
you went along. You just builtwhere there was the space to build.
(31:06):
It wasn't planned. The people likeNapoleon knocked everything down and planned. But
before Napoleon you just built as youwent along. So I think, you
know, the ideas that you havemean Australia's a bill like as well.
It's very grid like, isn't it, because obviously you came later, so
the countries where cities were built muchlater. I understand it, and I
(31:26):
find it very disconcerting. When Iwent to America, I couldn't find my
bearings. Everything was too straight andall the same. It all looked the
same. And I was here before. Oh no, we weren't, you
know. It's like it couldn't getmy bearings right, and my point of
references weren't there because they all lookedthe same. You know, well,
one place I do know that youdo have some very good points of reference.
(31:48):
How do you think? Checketti?If you go with Monica, she
knows the best chocolate shops in theworld, she really does. But I
can tell you where to go.It's called bits of Virto because I'm over
happy to to. You know,there's the best startisan shops in Vannie.
So yeah, definitely you were likea hyping pigeon. Yeah I forgot we
did that for I always forget aboutthat bit a little bit. Okay,
(32:09):
sorry, Yeah, it's the bestchocolate chocolate place in the city. I
do my chocolate tasting there with mytours as well, so because I do
alsoor cake and chocolate tours and coffeeand chocolate tours. You know, it's
food and food and food. Imean, if Phoenicia's inventor something some other
type of food, I will bethere. Don't worry about it. I'm
(32:30):
sure you will be. Okay everyone, are you ready to munch your way
around Venice? Now? I reallyhope so. But just to make sure
Monica, can you please let everyoneknow how they can stay in touch with
you, how they can buy yournew book and follow you on social media
and listen to your podcast. Okay, So my website is my name,
so it's fairly is it www dotcom. The podcast is very easy too.
(32:55):
It's called Vannice Talks and is availableor all major podcast platforms, and
they swell to talk about Venice threehundred and sixty degrees. So I get
to interview writers, artisans, museums, journalist, you name it. I'm
trying to expose Venice at all levels. Okay, so all the people that
(33:15):
work or leave in Venice get talkedin the podcast. I'm gonna go out
of pretty soon with my photy episodes. I'm very happy because I've been podcasting
for one year, so it's oneyear celebration. Congratulations. Ah yep.
The book is called and dar Perbaccheriis gonna I'm gonna keep the same name
(33:37):
in English because it just didn't makeany sense to translate it. And it
will be available on Amazon from Augustaor you can find you on my website.
There will be a link and onmy social media is always made Monica
from Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,Interest, you name it, you find
me Monica. I'm going to askyou to say Monica. Chase, ask
(34:00):
you to spell oh yes, sookay, I need to spell it.
I forget. Okay, So it'sC E S A R eight or it's
like Caesar. We have an eightto a B beginning, so chase that
act of yeah as dominant as Caesarwhen it comes to the Venetian firteen.
That is our Monica and she iseverywhere. And Venice Talks is a podcast
(34:22):
in English, so oh yes,it is a yes, you can get
your feeling betters. Every week I'mflugging off of a moment because it's someone
and it's a bit hard to findthe people available. So but hopefully we've
a cold season coming back on.I'll get back into once a week.
You've got to batch run them.That's what I do that everyone. A
(34:43):
little podcasting secret is sometimes we recorda lot of episodes in one week.
Now I used to do that.My problem is I'm running out of people
who want to do the interviews becauseI keep telling member, people love listening
to Italian accents, but Italians havea problem. You probably know it Italian,
but is a world we call bellafigua. So it means that you
(35:04):
always want to look at your best. Okay, So if an Italian thinks
that is not going to look athis best, is not gonna do the
thing. So at the moment arun out to people but speak very good
English and Vosa speak good English,but in bart opinion is not good enough.
They don't want to do it becausethey think I'm not good enough.
And I'm thinking that's what people loveabout it, because I'm really interviewing Italians,
(35:30):
you know, the locals. Yeah, Monica, I'm so glad you
brought that up. And I think, you know, if anyone wants to
help Monica and I, we'd guessthat native Italian speakers please ease reach out
to us. Because if you've beenlistening to my podcast for a while,
it's really a passion of mine forUntold Italy that we do feature Italians talking
about Italy because you know, alot of the time the commentary can be
(35:53):
from people from overseas, and that'sgreat to have different perspectives, not just
you know, Australian, America canor Canadian. But it's you know,
it's important, so so important tohave that Italian perspective, because after all,
it's their country and you know,they know it best and we can
only learn for them. Really,that's my view anyway. Monica, thank
(36:15):
you so much for joining us onUntold Italy again. It's such a joy
to always speak to you, andI always leave with a big smile on
my face that stays there for daysand days, and I'm so so glad
we reconnected in Venice and I'll beback next year for another go. I'm
back. I'm back, I'm back, I'm back, I'm back. Oh
(36:37):
yes, absolutely, I can't wait. Oh my goodness. And listen,
you take care and we'll put Monica'sdetails into the show notes everyone, so
you will be able to make contactwith her and you can book a tour
with her. It's absolutely one ofthe best things that you'll ever ever ever
do in Venice. I guarantee it, so gutim Monica, it's just an
(36:58):
absolute pleasure to have you on theshow. Thank you for having me.
It's always a pleasure talking to you, and I can't wait to see you
when you come back. So Iso hope you enjoyed hearing about Chichetti.
That amazing Venetian food tradition from theChichetti Queen herself, Monica Estato. I
cannot imagine going to Venice without doinga Chichetti crawl. And if you want
(37:20):
the best in the business, makesure to look up Monica, or if
she's booked up, which is indeedpossible, grab a copy of her book
and go exploring on your own andmake sure you look out for her.
On the Venice episode of the ReluctantTraveler series starring Eugene Levy. If you
ask me, Monica steals the show. I was so thrilled to see her
on there. Of course, weput all Monica's details, including info on
(37:45):
her podcast, book, tours andall the things, into our show notes
on our website at untold Italy dotcom forward slash one eighty five for episode
one hundred and eighty five. You'llalso find a link to that in your
podcast app, so it's really easyto find all the information and places that
we mentioned on the show. Gratsimile, thank you so much for your ongoing
(38:07):
support of Untold Italy. We trulyappreciate all of you, especially all our
listeners joining us from all around theworld. If you have a spare moment.
We would so appreciate it if youleft us a five star rating or
review in your favorite podcast app.That way, we can reach more Italy
loving, Chichetti loving travelers just likeyou. That's all for today. On
(38:29):
next week's episode, we'll be backwith another escape to beautiful Italy. I
believe it's Sicily next time, butuntil then, it's chow for now.
The Untold Italy podcast is an independentproduction podcast editing, audio production and website
development by Mark Hatter, Production assistanceand content writing by the other Kat Clark.
(38:51):
Yes there are two of us.For more information about Untold Italy,
please visit Untold Italy dot com
This is the Untold Italy travel podcastand you're listening to episode number one hundred
and eighty five. Chatuti and BenVenuti to Untold Italy, the travel podcast
to where you go to the townsend, villages, mountains, the lakes,
(00:21):
hills and coast lines of Bella,Italia. Each week, your host Katie
Clark takes you on a journey ina search of magical landscapes, history,
culture, wine, gelato, andof course a whole lot of pasta.
If you're dreaming of Italy and planningfuture adventures there, you've come to the
right place. Chow friends, welcomeback to Untold Italy, our podcast that
(00:55):
aims to help you build your dreamtrip with inspiration and inside into traveling the
country of Italy from its mountainous topto the toe of its boot. On
this episode, you're in for areal treat as we have my friend Monica
Cesarlato, who I have just namedthe Jacquetti Queen, here to tell you
all about the famous small bites andfood scene in Venice. Monica and I
(01:19):
spent a day together earlier this year, and I don't think I've laughed so
much in my life. We exploredVenice together and dipped in and out of
classic sites and bars, just enjoyingthe magic that is this incredible, unique
city built on water. You willnot find a stronger or more passionate advocate
for Venice and preserving its unique historyand culture. So it's Monica who I
(01:42):
turn to if I ever need reminding, not that I do, just how
special Venice is, or should Isay, I point people in her direction
who maybe think Venice is just atourist trap these days. Spend a day
with Monica and you'll put that thoughtto rest immediately. So let's welcome Monica,
Venetian food expert, podcaster to ahost, author, and general tour
(02:05):
de force onto the show. BennOut to Monica, welcome back to the
Untold Italy podcast. Thank you somuch. It's so nice to be back.
It's so nice to see you aftera while. After the days we
spent together and stuff. Oh mygosh, it was so much fun for
everyone listening. Monica and I hada really beautiful reunion earlier this year and
(02:28):
we just did not stop laughing.As they say. It started the Quiver
coffee, It ended up with ahuge mealive evening that was a long day
but probably one of my best daysever. I loved it. It was
so perfect. It was a perfectday in Venice, I think though.
It was so fun because we hadthis boat ride and Monica was just like
(02:52):
waving at everyone and they knew herlike I thought I was with a celebrity,
with a star. I loved itbecause every time my time was coming
up and I was getting, oh, what are you doing now? Oh
I'm not doing of it? Ohshall we do this then? And as
I say, started with at teno'clock morning, I think I went on
(03:15):
me it was about midnights and belike, oh no, I mean it
was kind of like the best dateever, wasn't it the best time?
I'm planned the day because we didn'tplan it at all. So it was
good and I love it. Ilove and the weather. The weather was
perfect as well, so good.And it was the end of March.
So if you're thinking of going inMarch, we had a great time.
(03:35):
Now, Monica, a lot hashappened since you were last on this podcast
in the middle of that silly pandemic, including you turning into a superstar on
TV. So I love it.Okay, so can you please reintroduce yourself
to our listeners and let them knowall about you, what you do and
(04:00):
what you've been up to. What'sthe Monica plan. So I'm a Venetian
food and travel blogger. I runclasses and foot tours in Venice. Cooking
classes and foot tours in Venice.I am also a podcaster now I got
my own podcast dedicated just to Venice. I have written a book on Chiketi
as well. And oh gosh,I'll do so many things that we talk
(04:24):
about this last time. At thattime, run out of hands how many
things I do. But now let'ssay the mainly I do, I eat
and I talk about what I eatas well, So that's mainly what I
do. And she does it insuch an amazing way. And just I
don't want you to be shy aboutthis, Monica, But you have been
(04:45):
on a few very popular television shows. Likely can you tell everyone what they
were? Why? I have Thebiggest one was the last one that is
with Eugene Livy on Apple TV,very luctant traveler, and I got to
say that I was probably one ofthe best experiences in my life. It's
on the Apple TV at the moment, so you can all watch it and
it's I'm on the episode obviously dedicatedto Venice, and it was a real
(05:09):
pleasure because I got to take himaround to eat chickati, of course,
and to talk about it. Butalso we went through the Jewish ghetto,
so we talked about that as well. And yeah, that was the biggest
one. I did some others before, but this is the most important,
I think, and the most recentas well. I was so proud watching
it. I was I just waslike, that's har Monica. She is,
(05:30):
we know her. I can't believeI got people. How got people
recognize me on the street, ButI feel it's very weird because I got
short haired and I'm not exactly noticeable. But I don't know how people said,
oh you were on TV. Iwas like, yeah, all right,
okay, oh now now I feellike, oh good, okay,
now we wish I could get themoney that goes with We fai him about
(05:51):
that. We come there, wego, we're working on it. We're
working on a Monica. Oh.I mean, really, you did such
a great job. Wasn't just thatyou were there, it was you did
an amazing job. And I wasso proud to know you, and I
was so happy about it. Sohonestly, everyone, Monica is a force
to be reckoned with. And there'sno better person to teach you all about
(06:14):
the magic that is chiquetti than thewoman who literally wrote the book on these
tasty snacks. And she's written inboth Italian and it's coming out in English
very very soon. Manica, somepeople might not know. I mean,
I know this is shocking, butthey might not know what chiquetti are.
So can you let everyone in ontoa little bit of a secret or not.
It's not the secret, but youknow, you guys, not anymore.
(06:38):
It used to be a secret.But when I started, when I
was starting to a thousand and eight, practically nobody knew what chi. I
remember when people used to book myfoot tour and I used to explain it,
it's not just a foot tour,it's about chiquati. But we go
like, wow, So chiket isthat you know, people to take a
(06:58):
shortcut save theyre like, you know, like the tappas. They're not like
tapas. Chickati are a way oflife in Venice. Okay. It's the
way you do a parative. It'sa way you just sample Venetian cooking.
The where the chicketti comes from Latinthat means chicu, and the history goes
back to a long long time ago, probably the same time a Stappas,
(07:21):
because let's remember the Venice in Spainand a strong link. Okay, but
they're not a saying. I needto start from the beginning really, So
the first thing that you know whenyou go around doing chicetti is a forget
about spirits. Everybody has a spiritsabout the spirits. What you need to
have is an umbra that is asmall glass of wine Okay, possibly raboso
(07:46):
like the one that I got youto dry. When you wear with me,
that is a nice Vanetto wine,and possibly when you go around drinking,
the ombra always asks for local wine, the Vanetto wines, because Vanetto
wines are is in any way.So our ombra is a small glass of
wine that is typical of Venice.Now there are a lot of legends of
(08:07):
their, all fake news on aninternet. So the main legend that is
not true says that the Venetian calledour own bra because they used to be
sold underneath a church tower. Theone was sold on an infa church tower
and to keep a one cool.They used to move the stalls with a
shade of a church tower. Sothey used to say Anaberambrada company, let's
(08:28):
go and drink in the shade.As the years when by became anima,
let's go and drink a shade.That's not true, but it's just a
legend. But if you want toknow a true story, you need to
buy a book. I'll tell youthe true story. But then you can
find in the book as well.So literally not very far away in history,
only about two hundred years ago.For Venice, two hundred years is
(08:52):
goos very recent. Let's say thereused to be a local professor in Venice.
I used to let's say, itwas very well loved by your study
of a city for obvious reasons.You know, used to like going around
quite often. And it defined thesmall glass of wine because it's a very
tiny small glass of wine. Okay, it used to define it as a
(09:13):
shade of nothing, because it isone eighth of a litter. And from
him on, in his honor,all of the study of a city starts
to use it as a unit ofmeasurement. And when you order an nombre,
you should always have a chickato.Now, remember the chickaiti of twenty
years ago are not a chickata today. If you came with me twenty years
(09:35):
ago, you would have a brain, liver, tongue, splean, tripe
and you name it. Now,you don't you get you know called you
get sardines, you get octopus,you get all of the fish mainly products
of a city. And we're justlet's say different. Okay, many recipes
(09:58):
are in the book, so youknow, I'm gonna be major propaganda for
the book. The city is comingout in August, so you know.
And the sea. So it wasvery typical for Venians to go back in
the past. Why did they usedto go and drink an umbra and a
chickad Too simple because in Venice wehad a problem that we had because we
don't have a problem anymore, thatthere wasn't any freshwater in the city.
(10:20):
Because it's a city built on stealsin the middle of a salty lagoon.
We didn't have any springs, anyrivers and zones. So Veniians had to
find ways to get freshwater into thecities, and they had two ways.
They had large barges going to themouth of the rivers every day called Burkio.
They used to bring back freshwater intothe city. Remember ladies and gentlemen
(10:43):
delivering the water door to door untilthe early nineteen hundreds. And then they
had these large wells that are massivesystems underground in the campy in all the
main squares of Venice. They werefilled with clay and sand, and the
water filter through the clans and thecollected in a cylinder, but went down
from the base of the beautiful constructionsthat you usually see outside. Now,
(11:07):
the problem involves the system and thebarges was and you just needed one that
rat and you got contaminating water.So the Venizians had to find a way
not to drink contaminating water because youknow, a plague was very big problem
back in the days. So whatdid they do simple? They did well
everybody else before them did. Everytime they drunk and water, the mixed
it with wine because they killed thebacteria. But that would have meant a
(11:31):
lot of drunken people around Venice.So what did they do simple? They
made sure to add a small biteto it every time they drunk, so
they wouldn't get two tipsy let's say, because remember this was done by everybody.
Also show classes, all genders,all ages, including children. Okay,
so it would have been a bita bit harder. We would have
(11:52):
had a lot of lining tower orpizzas in Venetian Tower or pizzas in Venice.
A few splashes in the canal.Yeah, I definitely, definite.
I mean, it's such a greatstory. And the thing is that it's
so unique to Venice. You know, like it does look a little bit
like tapers maybe, but it's totallydifferent flavors and it's a totally immersive experience
(12:18):
and they're much smaller size and originallyso now you see a lot of bread
with toppings, originally wouldn't be likethat. It would have been an egg
with an ounch of it. Itwould have been a bio polenta with some
cheese. It would have been aside dish of the beans and onions.
You know, it would have beentotally different. Now. I mean,
as I said, I did makesure on the book to put both brown
(12:41):
new recipes but also the traditional oldones from fifty one hundred years ago,
so you you know, they're bothfair because I wanted to preserve things,
so you know, and in someof the Yeah, you still find that.
You do still find them, soit's nice. Are there any particular
ones you prefer, which your favorites? Oh? My favorite, well,
definitely back I think is everybody's Venetiansfavorite. But you know it's made with
(13:07):
dry cod, not salt cod.That he's creamed dry cod. And I
would say the octopus and tomato sauce. Yeah, but those are definitely my
favorite. And those are two ofthose that are usually get everybody to try,
even though people look at it willbe funny, and usually I would
say nine out of ten people enjoythem. I always get your odd one.
(13:28):
But I can't please everyone exactly,and you cannot, Like I don't
like everything, so you know it'snot the You know, I don't take
it personally. I don't get offendedwhen it happens. Yeah, I mean
I love the BAA is so yum, so delicious. It's so creamy,
like I think, it's hard toexplain unless you try it, because it's
(13:48):
really whipped, isn't it. Yeah, it's whipped with oil and garlic,
that's it. But it looks likea muse. It looks like very scream
and stubby. That isn't I wouldsay they consistency is like Tina Mayone.
The consistency, but the flavor,I would say it depends on the quality
of the bacca lava they use andhow good the person that makes this as
(14:09):
well. But I would say it'screamier vember and a bit fatter than that
maybe in flavor, but it's unique. Yeah, And it's like marmighty,
you ever like it or you don'tlike it, as simple as that.
It's that is not I don't thinkthat is half way, and I recommend
it to take it with polenta becausethe polenta turns down the strong flavor of
(14:31):
a fish, so it's perfectly balancesout the dish. Yeah. And so
just in case people don't know whatpolenta is, can you let them know
it's corne flower, since when acorner arrived in the Veneto thanks to the
Spanish, you know, then Italyand so on, we actually called polentoni
big eaters of polenta. It's justcorne flower, and you have in many
(14:54):
ways. You go to boiley,of course, and it becomes like a
porridge kind of of you know,assistency first, then you can let it
cool down and it becomes hard,and then you can really or right or
just city soft. When it comesout, Oh it's delicious. M yeah.
Sometimes they put cheese in it.It's like grits. It's it's luckily
like greats about without the grits init, if you know what I'm saying.
(15:18):
Yeah, yeah, and I thinkit. I always like it if
it's got some like Pamesiano Eggiano makesthe inside, or with mushrooms inside like
they're making in Valadaosto Pimonte la la. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean
it's I love all these little differentriffs on. Everyone's got their little take
on how to do these bacala andhow they can make it tastier and put
(15:41):
their own spin on it. It'sso good and each like of the Osterlia,
they all love to have their ownspecialties, don't they like and show
them off. Yeah, but Ithink he's the greatest thing about vechicities that
yes, there are basic recipes,of course, but as you were saying,
everybody gets his own twisting away andthey're never the same. You can
(16:04):
literally go to tennis teria one afteranother you will not eat the same stuff.
They're all totally different, and Ithink it's a great way to do
Vani's without getting too full and reserveyour meal for the evening. So just
go chicated during the day, youknow, hopping, you know, by
hopping in a way, not gettingtoo drunk, not getting too tired,
(16:26):
don't get like the Venetians used todo it. You know, it was
one way not to get you know, to get drowsy, to get a
juggestion going they carry on working.So it was a good way to do
it, you know, good wayto do pub crawling. How much are
they each, because they're like,you know, like it literally you can
hold them in your hands usually,can't you. So the prices are gone
(16:47):
up unfortunately after COVID, because everything'sgone up, so I think now it's
an average of about two euros each. And they're not vesmaal. I mean
when I see when I go aroundwith friends and no we clients, because
we clients that to give them stuffedas much as I can. But when
we go around with friends, weusually can if we have three of them
and a drink or a couple ofdrinks. Well usually, as we call
(17:08):
it, stop a booky, youknow, it does farrel fondo. It
creates a base for all the alcoholthat you're gonna put on top in your
stop. That's what we call it. Okay, that's highs called. Then
how much with that? Like ifyou went out with your friends, it
would be the two like a chiodrinks and three ten euros with a couple
(17:30):
of chickating and a drink and maximumtenuros. We do it? Yeah,
then obviously we go, we proceed. Then it depends if you if you
are with money, I might beeven less and ten. It depends on
what mood of the bartenders are whoI meet. Well, you know me,
yeah, I do. You've beenwith me, so you know.
(17:56):
I think it's the thing is peoplehave this misconception about Venis is really expensive.
This is the budget way. Ifyou want to is you can have
these little picnics everywhere. That is, well, don't fiven picnics because you're
actually sitting down. Okay, they'renot sitting on the floor. Don't do
that, please, please again,we're against picnics in Venice, you know
that. Sorry, Sorry my bad. No. Yeah, Venice can be
(18:21):
as expensive as cheap as you wantit to be. I recommend this.
Save a proper meal for the evening. And there are restaurants of different budgets.
You do not need to go exactlyevery night or find dining restaurants.
There are you know, normal restaurants. Yes, Venice it is more expensive
than other cities. I don't denythis, but then again, the basic
(18:44):
cost of running a business is muchhigher in Venice because everything must come by
water, and the cost of rentalsof the locations is like double than anywhere
else in Italy because of you know, of the locations, historic buildings and
so on. So put that inmind. You know, when a restaurant
opens, he has to keep thiscost into consideration on top of the staff.
(19:07):
So obviously it will cost you,I will say, of thirty percent
more probably to eat in Venice thenanother citizen or other places even just outside
of Venice, you know. Butat the same time, you can eat
properly. I mean, you canhave a good meal for about forty euros,
no problem. Obviously you stop pullingout the wine, the price goes
up. But let's say you canhave a decent meal for about forty euros
(19:32):
a person. That it's not verymuch because consider I went to America and
with forty dollars we didn't even geta drink I'll call you know it was
and the food wasn't exactly. Imean it was good, but if you
wanted to eat well, you gotto spend a little bit more. So
forty euros for venice is not sobad. I would say, you know,
(19:53):
you can spend even less. Butas I say, if you do
it where you move from chickaty tochickaty to k even, you know you
don't get so angry and you canbudget as well better. You know it's
true, and you're just so whenyou're just spending ten years here in ten
years there, you forget exactly andyou're happy of the economy, and you're
spreading the money of your to theeconomy because you're spreading spreading the love you
(20:18):
gave it to the community. You'regiving it to the community. You know.
I love it now, Monica.I know you have so many places
in your book which you recommend,but is there a couple that you can
let our audience in on that youwould like to tell them? Yes,
I'll give you those that I don'tusually take people because they're out of my
itenery. So if they want thoseand my eighteen don't even need to come
(20:41):
with me, now the two verygood ones that they are out of my
eightineries. So I'm very happy toshare them because I found them the very
traditional. So first of all,one in Castello, but nobody ever goes
to the Cestio Castello unless they goto the Biennale. Otherwise it's a very
residential part of any st I thinkis beautiful. And the Venetians are they
(21:02):
gonna hate me because I'm promoting it. But I like to for people to
spread in the cities rather than concentratein some marks. So in Castello vers
an Osteria what is called Osteria Lascuelathat when you walk in, it's like
walking into the sixties. I mean, the people look like from the sixties,
the location looks like from the sixties, the vibe is from the sixties,
(21:25):
and the food is from the sixties. They have a chicken ti like
it used to be, and it'sfull of venitions from you know. You
do see every so often be allthe tourists, but mainly only locals.
And the food is amazing, andoh my god, I if somebody says
to me, oh, Monica,you want that's my first stop. I
(21:45):
always take people there and they doamazing The made tomato stuff, tomatoes,
graten stuff, tomatoes very amazing,very good, and the wines are good
too. And then another one isactually near realto. So everybody keeps saying
that I'm the first one to tellyou a realto. You know, you
(22:06):
get a lot of tourist traps aboveall along the embankment, you know,
the main fundamental But as you oneof the turnings, there is a place
called Australia al Diavolo la qua Santaand that's why you get the best tripe
ever. The gondolier's going to havedinnerware lunch, so you know, and
(22:27):
the chikati are fantastic, but theydon't do just chickaty with waves of proper
food and you can definitely eat itthere. Yeah, the best trap that
I've in my life nearly as goodas my mom's one. Oh that's a
big statement, Monica. Yeah,yeah, from me saying that is nearly
as good as my MoMA. Considermy mom is one of the best go
(22:48):
Cara met in my life. Sheshould write a book. I always says
she should write a book. Mymom doesn't tell me how to make recipe.
My mom shows me when you askher how much do I need to
put? Yeah? That much?I let she show you, you know,
love, so I shouldn't every timeshe does that should be there with
a scale and measure. Yeah,you know how much vet means? They
(23:11):
just know. I told that theother day. I said, Mama,
you know we are really should startwriting now your recipes. She says,
You're never gonna give you my recipes. Grand my grandma did that. My
grandma did that. She has anamazing recipe for a liquor. But she
used to make her with I wantthat leaves lemon zest loads of Grandpa and
(23:33):
the raisins okay baa, And shehad a secret ingredient and she never told
anybody what it was. So therecipe died with her. So we are
all very upset about it. That'snot good. No no, no,
no, no no no. Oh. Now, if our listeners are wanting
to go around on their own,introduce some chicken tea bar hopping around the
(23:56):
Ostilia and the boccado in Venice.Do they these places take card or is
it cash only? So it usedto, because surely, but since COVID,
now everybody takes a car that notAmerican Express, but all the other
cards. Generally they do. Yeah, yeah, now they do because of
COVID. This was introduced in Italyafter COVID, so everybody that used to
(24:17):
take on the cash now has gotto take are forced to take cards as
well. So yeah, you're you'llbe okay, okay. And do you
ever have to line up to getin or is it you know, like,
is there something? It depends onthe place. It depends on the
places some places, and at thetime you go. Obviously if you go
a perative time, that's about sixissue. Yeah, you'll definitely queue in
because and Saturday and Sundays, Friday, Saturday and Sundays because obviously over locals
(24:41):
go to and lunchtime now as well. But if you go off at times,
and you usually don't, and evenif you do, you usually wait
ten fifteen minutes. But then youknow, because people that usually go have
a chickating many people stand up,so you'll have a number, you have
a chicka, took a couple oftalk with your friends or spirits whatever,
and then you walk away. SoI will always give about fifteen twenty minutes.
(25:04):
I mean, you do cute thatare the busy ones where you cue
for an hour, So it dependsand usually if you're so busy, just
walk away or someone else. There'stowns, I mean just in my book
up of thirty or Studier and there'sdub Over, if not three times there
so planty, planty. Yeah,you'll find something. It'll be good and
(25:25):
it's it's honestly not just food.It's part of the cultural experience as part
of being in Venice, and it'ssomething that you should definitely make time to
do because it's very special and youdo. You feel like you're in another
world. You're standing in these ancientbuildings. You've got your little glass of
wine and you hand delicious from thelocal countryside, and you've got this beautiful
(25:47):
taste you're munching into you and youyou can't be at home because they don't
make him at home, you know, even though sometimes they try. I
don't think it's only about eating anddrink of a chickens about so show experience.
I mean, I was talking toa client said to me, you
know in America, for example,in America, they cannot do that.
They cannot just sit there and watch, you know, outside with a drink.
(26:11):
And now they started because of thepandect but before that they didn't,
so there wasn't this idea of justsitting we have a friend having a drink,
talking while watching the people go by. Just to give you an idea
of the other day, I didanother spi another day like I did with
you, with another Italian friend.By the way, she's a local,
so she knew what we were doing, but she loved it. So we
(26:32):
started by going first to Palazzo Grimani, that is one of the most beautiful
museums in Venice. Then nobody goesto and literally it was just me and
air and I can't believe I hada museum for myself at this so many
lives and videos and photos whatever.Then we went to an art exhibition because
of the moment we got the architecturebe analysts, so we went to one
(26:52):
of the free exhibitions there and thenwe decided to go through some chicket and
that's what we did. We justfor about an hour and a half talking
to my friend Barman and talking tothe customers coming in. But then it
was very hot. You know,it's three o'clock in the afternoon, there's
forty degrees in Venice. What doyou do so I look at her and
says, should we just do somepeople watching? So we just went in
(27:18):
campus on the Stephano sat for threeand a half hours, wind and die
by the staff because of course theyall know me, so they keep saying
to me, oh, do youwant to try this new drink? Oh,
do you want to try this newdrink. So by the time seven
o'clock came, I was like totallymore or less because it was out as
well, but it was beautiful andI was talking to her and we really
(27:40):
you know, she was saying tome as well, she doesn't get to
do but she's working all the time. And I think that's a great thing
about Venice that is different from theother city. But you sitting down,
you don't have cars passing by,so you don't want to get a pollution
and smoke and life is so muchslower. So three hours sitting down in
a bar sounds a lot, butit literally flew. We just it just
(28:04):
went by, okay, And Ithink that's one way to really enjoy Van's
to do Venice law. You know, sometimes it's not about piling up or
you know, I need to dothis, I need to do that,
I need to do. It's alsojust to sit down and relax. I
don't know if you agree or notabout it. Well you did it with
me, so I do. Ireally just love Venice. It's it upsets
(28:29):
me when people say they didn't enjoyit, and I wonder what they did.
You know, I'm like, whatwhat did you do? You know?
Because for me it's just you know, that whole you know, relaxing
moment and like finding a little secretpassage away. And I tell you,
I've been saying this a lot,just on repeat. Actually turn off the
(28:49):
GPS please, because you know,I was saying to you, Oh my
goodness, like everyone's got the same, you know, way they're going because
of Google Maps. And then Monicacame along and she was like, no,
we're going this way. And ifwe were, we were weaving in
and out of out of the littlelame ways we were. We got there
in half the time, because youknow, they can't get big Google Maps
(29:11):
cart down through those places anyway,so it's cabably, someone wearing a hat
or something it doesn't know Google Mapsdies anyway through vos Ball alleyways because the
building does at all. But that'swhat we call in Venetia. We call
them scontem they hidden ones, youknow, and just the Venician usually use
them, or the people they actuallymoved to Venice and start to get to
(29:32):
know them and they are I meanI did the same. We have a
friend of mine during Carnival. Atone stage we got started because the Carnival,
of course, the numbers are massive, and we were trying to go
back to St. Mark Square.Unfortunately we had to. We didn't want
particularly to do it, but wehad to, and we got to a
certain point. It was like afunnel, you know, everybody went like
(29:53):
live there and all of a suddenyou couldn't go through. So I looked
at him and said due to askedme, and it looked at me says,
okay, I don't really know whereI'm going, but I know where
I'm going, as in I knowwhere I want to go, and I
know that more or less, cuttingthrough year through year through year, probably
(30:15):
it will take it. It willbe quicker. And we did, even
though I didn't know where I wasgoing, but I had in my mind
the idea where I wanted to endup. So if you get the logistics
of Venice and you understand the north, southeast and west. You can avoid
going through the main rules. ButI do understand that for many people that
grew up in cities where everything islike agreed, agreed, I get it.
(30:40):
It is literally they go into apanic. I totally understand it because
I get told many times by peoplejeneralist Americans, jenneralist Americans. Europeans are
not so much because in Europe,you know, we used to cities that
just were born like mushrooms, goodygoody. You just you just built as
you went along. You just builtwhere there was the space to build.
(31:06):
It wasn't planned. The people likeNapoleon knocked everything down and planned. But
before Napoleon you just built as youwent along. So I think, you
know, the ideas that you havemean Australia's a bill like as well.
It's very grid like, isn't it, because obviously you came later, so
the countries where cities were built muchlater. I understand it, and I
(31:26):
find it very disconcerting. When Iwent to America, I couldn't find my
bearings. Everything was too straight andall the same. It all looked the
same. And I was here before. Oh no, we weren't, you
know. It's like it couldn't getmy bearings right, and my point of
references weren't there because they all lookedthe same. You know, well,
one place I do know that youdo have some very good points of reference.
(31:48):
How do you think? Checketti?If you go with Monica, she
knows the best chocolate shops in theworld, she really does. But I
can tell you where to go.It's called bits of Virto because I'm over
happy to to. You know,there's the best startisan shops in Vannie.
So yeah, definitely you were likea hyping pigeon. Yeah I forgot we
did that for I always forget aboutthat bit a little bit. Okay,
(32:09):
sorry, Yeah, it's the bestchocolate chocolate place in the city. I
do my chocolate tasting there with mytours as well, so because I do
alsoor cake and chocolate tours and coffeeand chocolate tours. You know, it's
food and food and food. Imean, if Phoenicia's inventor something some other
type of food, I will bethere. Don't worry about it. I'm
(32:30):
sure you will be. Okay everyone, are you ready to munch your way
around Venice? Now? I reallyhope so. But just to make sure
Monica, can you please let everyoneknow how they can stay in touch with
you, how they can buy yournew book and follow you on social media
and listen to your podcast. Okay, So my website is my name,
so it's fairly is it www dotcom. The podcast is very easy too.
(32:55):
It's called Vannice Talks and is availableor all major podcast platforms, and
they swell to talk about Venice threehundred and sixty degrees. So I get
to interview writers, artisans, museums, journalist, you name it. I'm
trying to expose Venice at all levels. Okay, so all the people that
(33:15):
work or leave in Venice get talkedin the podcast. I'm gonna go out
of pretty soon with my photy episodes. I'm very happy because I've been podcasting
for one year, so it's oneyear celebration. Congratulations. Ah yep.
The book is called and dar Perbaccheriis gonna I'm gonna keep the same name
(33:37):
in English because it just didn't makeany sense to translate it. And it
will be available on Amazon from Augustaor you can find you on my website.
There will be a link and onmy social media is always made Monica
from Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,Interest, you name it, you find
me Monica. I'm going to askyou to say Monica. Chase, ask
(34:00):
you to spell oh yes, sookay, I need to spell it.
I forget. Okay, So it'sC E S A R eight or it's
like Caesar. We have an eightto a B beginning, so chase that
act of yeah as dominant as Caesarwhen it comes to the Venetian firteen.
That is our Monica and she iseverywhere. And Venice Talks is a podcast
(34:22):
in English, so oh yes,it is a yes, you can get
your feeling betters. Every week I'mflugging off of a moment because it's someone
and it's a bit hard to findthe people available. So but hopefully we've
a cold season coming back on.I'll get back into once a week.
You've got to batch run them.That's what I do that everyone. A
(34:43):
little podcasting secret is sometimes we recorda lot of episodes in one week.
Now I used to do that.My problem is I'm running out of people
who want to do the interviews becauseI keep telling member, people love listening
to Italian accents, but Italians havea problem. You probably know it Italian,
but is a world we call bellafigua. So it means that you
(35:04):
always want to look at your best. Okay, So if an Italian thinks
that is not going to look athis best, is not gonna do the
thing. So at the moment arun out to people but speak very good
English and Vosa speak good English,but in bart opinion is not good enough.
They don't want to do it becausethey think I'm not good enough.
And I'm thinking that's what people loveabout it, because I'm really interviewing Italians,
(35:30):
you know, the locals. Yeah, Monica, I'm so glad you
brought that up. And I think, you know, if anyone wants to
help Monica and I, we'd guessthat native Italian speakers please ease reach out
to us. Because if you've beenlistening to my podcast for a while,
it's really a passion of mine forUntold Italy that we do feature Italians talking
about Italy because you know, alot of the time the commentary can be
(35:53):
from people from overseas, and that'sgreat to have different perspectives, not just
you know, Australian, America canor Canadian. But it's you know,
it's important, so so important tohave that Italian perspective, because after all,
it's their country and you know,they know it best and we can
only learn for them. Really,that's my view anyway. Monica, thank
(36:15):
you so much for joining us onUntold Italy again. It's such a joy
to always speak to you, andI always leave with a big smile on
my face that stays there for daysand days, and I'm so so glad
we reconnected in Venice and I'll beback next year for another go. I'm
back. I'm back, I'm back, I'm back, I'm back. Oh
(36:37):
yes, absolutely, I can't wait. Oh my goodness. And listen,
you take care and we'll put Monica'sdetails into the show notes everyone, so
you will be able to make contactwith her and you can book a tour
with her. It's absolutely one ofthe best things that you'll ever ever ever
do in Venice. I guarantee it, so gutim Monica, it's just an
(36:58):
absolute pleasure to have you on theshow. Thank you for having me.
It's always a pleasure talking to you, and I can't wait to see you
when you come back. So Iso hope you enjoyed hearing about Chichetti.
That amazing Venetian food tradition from theChichetti Queen herself, Monica Estato. I
cannot imagine going to Venice without doinga Chichetti crawl. And if you want
(37:20):
the best in the business, makesure to look up Monica, or if
she's booked up, which is indeedpossible, grab a copy of her book
and go exploring on your own andmake sure you look out for her.
On the Venice episode of the ReluctantTraveler series starring Eugene Levy. If you
ask me, Monica steals the show. I was so thrilled to see her
on there. Of course, weput all Monica's details, including info on
(37:45):
her podcast, book, tours andall the things, into our show notes
on our website at untold Italy dotcom forward slash one eighty five for episode
one hundred and eighty five. You'llalso find a link to that in your
podcast app, so it's really easyto find all the information and places that
we mentioned on the show. Gratsimile, thank you so much for your ongoing
(38:07):
support of Untold Italy. We trulyappreciate all of you, especially all our
listeners joining us from all around theworld. If you have a spare moment.
We would so appreciate it if youleft us a five star rating or
review in your favorite podcast app.That way, we can reach more Italy
loving, Chichetti loving travelers just likeyou. That's all for today. On
(38:29):
next week's episode, we'll be backwith another escape to beautiful Italy. I
believe it's Sicily next time, butuntil then, it's chow for now.
The Untold Italy podcast is an independentproduction podcast editing, audio production and website
development by Mark Hatter, Production assistanceand content writing by the other Kat Clark.
(38:51):
Yes there are two of us.For more information about Untold Italy,
please visit Untold Italy dot com
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