June 21, 2024 • 27 mins
Wines from Puglia are on the ascendancy. Once the workhorse of the Italian wine industry, providing bulk wines to cut with other varieties, today the Pugliese wine industry champions indigenous grapes and is forging a bright future based on local techniques and ingenuity.
Read the full episode show notes here > untolditaly.com/229
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The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke - yes there are two of us!
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The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke
Read the full episode show notes here > untolditaly.com/229
Support the show
Join our mailing list and get our FREE Italy trip planning checklist - subscribe here | Join us on tour: Trip schedule | Discover our Trip Planning Services | Visit our online store | Follow: Instagram • Facebook • YouTube • Italy Travel Planning Community
The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke - yes there are two of us!
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- Subscribe to our mailing list and get our FREE Italy trip planning toolkit - subscribe here
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Editorial Information
The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This is the Untold Italy Travel podcastand you are listening to episode number two
hundred and twenty nine. Chawatooti andBenvenuti Too one told Italy the travel podcast
to where you go to the townsand villages, mountains and lakes, hills
(00:21):
and coastlines of Bella, Italia.Each week, your host Katie Clark takes
you on a journey in a searchof magical landscapes, history, culture,
wine, gelato, and of coursea whole lot of pasta. If you're
dreaming of Italy and planning future adventuresthere, you've come to the right place.
(00:50):
Chao Tuti, Benvenuti, Welcome toanother Italian wine episode, and this
time we're visiting the beautiful Pulia region. Our friends Olivia and Andrea from Italian
Wine Tales are here to tell youall about this exciting and up and coming
wine region that's emerging from being historicallyan area of mass wine production rather than
(01:11):
a place known for refined and curatedwines. We've chatted about the renaissance that's
going on in Pulia in just abouteverything tourism, food and the rejuvenation of
cities, and now it's time totalk about Pulizy wine. It's an exciting
time to visit Pulia, so let'shear all about what you'll be drinking when
you get there. Ben don ARTIwelcome back to the Unhold Italy podcast.
(01:37):
Andrea and Olivia Choah, okay everyone, yay, hooray, so good to
chat with you again. Now what'snew in the world of Italian wine?
What have we been drinking lately?Well, actually, I just did our
order for our wedding. We're havinga little in the piazza afterwards, and
since it's going to be in Umbria, I decided to order so sparkling wine
(02:00):
from one of our favorite wineries inumbrother Do, a sparkling rose and a
sparkling white, and it's called ginnyNor, which means little thing in Umbrian
dialect. So I thought that wasa nice touch. So that's what our
guests will have to look forward to. Yes, okay, well, I
hope you got quite a few bottlesof that rose, because as you know,
(02:21):
I do like a rose. Anyway, that was a bit of a
piky question because of course wine hasbeen evolving in Italy since well before the
Romans, as you know, exactly. Anyway, it's so great to have
you back. And before we getstarted on talking about a region that we're
really passionate about, can you quicklygive everyone a quick bio and let them
(02:42):
know why you're so thrilled to talkabout Italian wine. We're free to talk
about Italian wine because we have ouron blog and Instagram page you just called
Italian Wine. We try to talkabout Italian wine in a friendly way so
that it's accessible to everyone, butgiving right information. So did you and
get accustomed to do Italian wines?Yeah, we're both undertaking our Smellia certificate
(03:07):
at the moment, and yeah,that led us to become more passionate about
Italian wine and create Italian wine tails. Yeah, and you're doing such a
great job, and it's so greatto I think, just simplify, not
simplify, but just make it,as you say, more accessible, because
I think one appreciation and tasting canbe a little bit intimidating at times,
(03:29):
and it's great to have it ina more friendly way, as you say.
I've been looking forward today's chat becauseof course we're going to explore the
wine of one of our favorite regionsin Pulia, which is also one of
issually's biggest wine producing regions. ButI'm sure one that not a lot of
people know much about. So youcan help everyone picture what it's like.
(03:50):
Can you describe Pulia and it's geographyand point out maybe where the wine making
areas are. Yes, so foreveryone it doesn't know what Polia is.
First of all, picture Italy,so the boot and pull. It is
right than hill, so southeast ofItaly. It's on the sea. It's
a very beautiful region, especially insummer, where wine is now becoming an
(04:11):
up and important part of their economyand the part of the society. It
wasn't until the nineteen seventies where bigchange in fields of your wine production happened,
and it focused mainly at the beginningon a wine called negramato, a
red wine, and now still tothis day there is a lot of red
wine produced there, Negramato or primitivo, which is the most famous one,
(04:32):
and for the American listeners you mightknow it as the zin funder the same
grape, just produced differently, ofcourse. But it's interesting Pulia because for
a long time, you know itis one of the biggest wine producers,
but it was all bulk wine andwas being sent all over Italy and even
in France to cut wine, andit was the white Pulie as of wine
(04:54):
was actually being used as the basefor Vermouth, which was interesting. So
it's yeah, not really until morerecent times that Pulliers and wine has started
to become They've improved the methods ofproducing in the cellar but also in the
vineyards, and it still hasn't reachedits full potential. So I think this
is a wine region to watch,and you can also get a lot of
(05:16):
really good value wines from Pullia atthe moment too, but it's definitely an
up and coming one, so we'llsee some really interesting wines coming out of
this region. It years to come. Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't
it How we're seeing Pullia. It'sa little bit under the radar. It's
sort of going about its own businesslike quietly, quietly, just you know,
(05:39):
building up expertise not just in winemaking but also in tourism. But
there's a lot of similarities there,and yeah, I think it's really fascinating
and it's exciting to watch an areawhere they're not bound by so much tradition,
so they've got a little bit moreartistic license maybe to try some new
(06:00):
things. Yeah, I was sayingthat it's interesting because there are red wines,
as I said, but white winesand roses as well, which may
talk about later a bit more,because especially for the rose wine, there
is a little interesting in cue storyabout it, which I'll tell you later
when we come to it. Okay, all right, So let's get a
little bit deeper into the region andthe wines. And so where do you
(06:25):
want to start? Red or whiteor will leave rose to the end.
Maybe we start with the red wines, because we should say that most of
the wine produced in the area isred or rose. And so the main
grapes are negro mao premitivo, whichand I mentioned before, and the Troya
grape over the Troya. And youknow, the wines down here Pullias are
(06:47):
very hot region. They have hotsummers and mild winters. And all of
that to say is that therefore thewines are quite alcoholic normally too. So
they're big, they're fruit forward,there's nothing kind of you know, yeah,
they're not. They're a big glassof wine, is what I'm trying
to say. It's hard to drinkthem by themselves. It's better to drink
(07:09):
them while you're eating a meal.They pair perfectly with the food down there
exactly. Yeah. I mean there'sa lot of vegetable based dishes in Point,
but also a lot of meat baseddishes too, which you might not
think at first, given that they'realso on the coast, But they do
have a big tradition of lots ofsausages and baked lamb and you know meat
(07:29):
like this, which goes perfectly withthe primitive or from Manduria or one of
the even bombin oneiros another red winegrape. Yeah, yeah, I think
it's interesting. Maybe these wines maybe a little bit more familiar to our
palettes as people from as they liketo say in the UK call us the
(07:51):
New World. So the New Worldwine, like from California or from Australia.
They're like a bit more bold andthey've got a lot more I guess
flavor. It's it's a bit morepunch in the face kind of or punch
in the mouth. That's the wordsI'm looking for. I think, especially
(08:11):
if people like a big, boldred and they're looking for something that's kind
of the most top quality in Pulia, you'd look for a primitive or di
Manduria docs. We've spoken in otherepisodes about what DOOC means like a market
quality, and this is a reallystrong, full bodied wine. And when
we say full bodied, we reallydo mean full bodied aged in a barrick
(08:35):
you can expect, you know,like those candied fruits, fig, almonds,
licorice, tobacco. That's a deliciouswine, but a FOODI wine obviously
not having that for a perativo hour. Tell me what's a berrick? Barrick
is a wooden barrel. That's agood question. Yes, it's where you
put wine to age, especially redwine, and it gives this often you
(08:56):
can find it when you have anaftertaste of like lickoryish or tobacco, those
like vanilla, Yes, exactly.And it's very important also the oak or
the wood that it's made of,especially there are some woods that are specifically
grown in parts of Europe, likeSlovenia or France, which as specifically grown
(09:16):
just to make ricks. Because it'svery important the wood that you use.
So for example, they would notreally use at all here for obvious reasons,
American oak because they've got the Europeanoak. But it's also a little
bit more porous, and you haveto smoke it before you use it,
and then of course the more youuse it over time, the better it
(09:37):
is because it absorbs the wine andit lets the wine breed as well,
because it's as she said, it'sporous or egg can filter through in and
out and it helps the wine agecorrectly. So where will we find these
ones? So if we think aboutthe main towns in Pulia, We've got
Ari, which is the capital,which we had heard about on the podcast
(09:58):
a few weeks ago, and that'son the coast, and we a lot
of people probably know Albertobello and maybelet cha, So where were these wine
growing regions? So we have wineproducing areas, especially in Valeditria, Martina
Franca and Stanino to the Atrio ValleiriAl yes exactly something also, yes,
(10:20):
producer around Pari. But I wouldjust especially Alberobello, not only for the
wine producing itself, because it's alsoa very beautiful town and it's amazing to
visit. Exactly. They have thetypical Puyasa houses which are called the truly
very magical. If you manage togo and visit, it's a magical experience.
(10:41):
And in the Valdetria as well.The Atria valley. Loco Rotondo is
another town that we also visit onour tour by the way in Pulia,
but they produce a lot of wine, and there's a place there where you
can even go and have a perativoin the vignyards. You can just walk
down from the town, So wecan put that in the show notes maybe,
and yes, it's full of vigneyards. In the Istria valley near Leche.
(11:05):
You've got to get out a littlebit. Lecher's like the town and
around of Lecher. They don't reallyproduce wine, so you've got to kind
of go back up towards Austuni,where they produce lots of wine, and
they've got a really interesting wine thatis produced also in France and South Africa
with different names. It's called theaustuny Doc red wine. In French it
(11:28):
is i Yuess, It's called ChinSaud bringing a Balis. In South and
South Africa it's called Hermitage. It'san easy red wine. So maybe that
one could go with Eropibo if you'relooking for a red wine to have for
and then if you go all theway down to the very south of Pulia.
You come to the Salento area,which absolutely beautiful. That's great for
(11:50):
beaches. They've got some stunning beaches, but also stunning wines. They produce
a lot of wine. Obviously that'sgoing to be really high alcohol too,
because it gets incredibly hot in theCilento. And then if you come back
up on the other part of Pulia, when you're going back up what's that
part called and Ernie Gallipoli need anothercoffee? If you come back up around
(12:13):
there, they produce a lot ofwine too, and that's where you'll find,
you know, going back up thereManduria. Mandura is an amazing wine
producing area and they say that that'swhere the best of the best premittee all
comes from. And can you tellus about some of the up and coming
wineries there, like some of yourfavorites where you can try some of the
(12:33):
typical and maybe some more exciting versionsof these local wines. Well, I
have to mention first of all,it's a small winery, which normally on
this podcast we give you know,kind of bigger wineries which we will give
one to go and visit, butbeing Australian, we have to talk about
one called more La because it's inManduria, and I just love this story
(12:56):
because it's an Australian woman and herspend who are running the winery and they
produce all these different kinds of primitiveor wines. It's a biodynamic winery too,
so you know that can be ata little bit interesting to visit because
they follow the cycles of the moonand you know, maybe we might have
to do another episode about biodynamic whymaking one day. It's very interesting,
(13:18):
but yeah, they're making really topquality, award winning wines there. It's
a really small winery, so ifyou're looking for more of an off the
beaten path experience, you could gothere. And of course, since the
wife's Australian, they speak English,so that's another thing whereas you know a
lot of these other smaller wineries theydon't. So you really do need to
visit with a tour to get themost out of your experience. But we
(13:39):
do have another option for you aswell. We is called E Pastini,
which is at the heart of theYtrie Valley. So you are in a
land, a beautiful land between LocoRondo and Martina Franca, and in this
winery their goal is to recover andpromote the ancient grape varieties that were found
and grown in Vala in the etriof Valet originally. So they're doing a
(14:03):
good job at that. Yeah,and that's a nice one to visit as
well, in the sense that ontheir website it's very easy to navigate and
book a wine tasting in English,which is not always the norm. As
we always say when we talk aboutItalian one, whenever you want to visit
the winery, always remember to bookan advance because that's very important. It's
very hard to just show up andhave tasting, and that's because these people
(14:26):
are working and actually making wine andor doing every other job they have around
the winery. So it's it's reallynot as much like what we have in
the United States or Australia where theyhave working cellar doors, except for some
of the really bigger wine companies likeAntonori maybe in Tuscany and more established places.
(14:48):
Yeah, so yeah, definitely makesure you book. But we haven't
mentioned as well. Pully also produceswhite wines, so if you like white
wines, then you're in the rightplace too. I mean, really have
something for everyone here as well assparkling, and even they're starting to make
some really interesting schumanth there. Soif you like sweet sparkling, it's for
you too. But for the whitewines, the main grapes are verdeca malvasia,
(15:13):
and everyone will be familiar with chardonnay, but the Verdeca I love.
And on our tour Empuya we goto a secret winery where we have this
delicious verdica and every time we go, I have to buy a bottle because
it's mineral and crisp and you've gotyou know, green apple notes and like
the flowers, and yeah, it'sjust perfect with seafood of course, which
(15:35):
Pullia has a lot of seafood too. It's good to pay with one of
the typical regional dishes, which arethe the oeta is the typical passa shape.
As you all know, every regionnearly has their own pasachet, and
in Puya they have their which Icalled like that because they resemble little ears.
And this white wine that LE wasmentioning pairs perfectly with this tip gold
(16:00):
dish, so absolutely a master totry. Oh yeah, I could go
for a plate of that pasta anda glass of wine right now, oh
goodness. And somewhere is that oneproduced. Is that in around the Valdtria
as well. Yeah, a littlebit further down, it's just out of
OUSTONI oh, around that area.That kind of leads us as well to
(16:22):
talk about rose a true because inPula they also make delicious rose, which
is not very known in the sensethat whenever you think about rose, you
don't often think about Pulia. Butthey have this interesting way of producing rose
in here, because how do youproduce rose. You either have a blend
or red and white wine together,or you leave the red grape in contact
(16:45):
the juice of the red grape incontact with the skin because the color of
the wine is taken by the skins, but not for long couple exactly.
What important is that they have thisinteresting system called systema a la cima,
which you could translate it as likeshe drop system or something like. And
they put the red grapes in bigbags and they gently press it, they
(17:10):
generally squeeze it so that the mask, the juice, the best part of
it drips down like tears, soit stays in contact with the skin for
a very very limited amount of time, and it drips down from these bags
like a tear, and they producerosette wine in this way, which is
unique way to you to do it. We've never seen it anywhere else about
(17:32):
it anywhere else before. Yeah,and they use negro amount of for it.
So the red grape one of themost famous of the region and it's
a rosette wine negro amouto. Soif you like negro matter, but you
want it a bit lighter and abit lighter version, you can try this
rosette wine. Oh, that soundsamazing. What would you ate with that
one? You could eat as well, something light for example, some fish
(17:56):
for sure, or a pasta dish, but or baccala. They even have
done it, but I would suggestit also for a nice view perfectly,
yeah exactly. I mean when we'reon tour in Pulia, I have to
say, the rose is always everyone'sfavorite because it's that perfect in between and
the weather is always kind of balmyand not too hot but not too cold,
(18:19):
so everyone's kind of pairing their rosewith all the delicious things that we
eat from the burata that's kind ofdrizzling down your face because it's so creamy
and delicious, to the beautiful freshseafood and lots of raw seafood because they
have a Bari episode. You weretalking about the Pulis sashimi style. See,
(18:41):
yeah, even though that goes delicious, it's a crunchy terrari as well.
Exactly. Yeah, they're so good, are they? They're so laury,
So they're cherally a the little biscuitsor savory cookies, and they're really
crunchy and they laved different things yummyand you can't once chipop, you can't
(19:03):
stop. That's not it's very addictive, but I feel like it's not mass
produced. Some lady's been hand rollingthat, so it's all good. Yeah.
Absolutely, And if you come ontour with us, we learn to
make to Rulli biscuits too, whichis very dangerous because you won't ever stop
making them. Now. The thingabout Pulia, and I can imagine it's
(19:26):
especially true with the Wineries, isthat you will definitely need a car to
get it around, right. Absolutely. Look, I mean you mentioned in
the Bari episode as well that that'sa good base if you're not going to
have a car, because you canget to a few places like Paula Jan
or Monopoly or Leche. But besidesthat, it is extremely difficult if you
(19:47):
don't have a car. I mean, part of the beauty of it is
it's not a slick operation. It'sreally more rusty, and you're really meeting
people that are trying new things anddoing something a little bit different and there
like you know, learning along theway. And I just think that's so
much more charming in a lot ofways than if someone's you know, like
it's it's nice to have a veryprofessional experience, but sometimes it's also really
(20:11):
lovely to have a charming, like, face to face local experience. Totally,
absolutely, And the people in Puliah, they're just the hospitality is another
level. They're so generous, they'reso friendly and welcoming. So when you
visit these wineries as well, that'sthe experience you're going to have. It's
not a commercial experience at all.It's very authentic. Even if we don't
(20:34):
like using that authentic word. That'sme, that's my that's my issue.
But with those wines, for me, my instinct is that they're like easy
drink. You drink them straight away. These things that you sell are or
not so much well, you can, given that the quality of the wine
production is improving constantly. Now youcan, especially with the premetiv or you
(20:56):
could define own wines, especially onethat aging in the barricks of course in
the but if you want to buythere are as we said, like red
wines for example, the Stuny Docor the white wines you can be on
there or that's something to drink now. And we're not saying that because they're
(21:17):
not good. They are very good. They're ready to drink, they're ready
the market, especially the white wines, like I wouldn't you know, I'd
drink them sooner other than later aswell. Yeah. Are the wineries set
up for shipping to all different partsof the world. Depends which one you
go to, but most of them, I would say, especially the ones
(21:41):
we go to on tour, youcan ship. Just to Australia's always the
issues. Only think anywhere that yougo because shipping is so expensive. Some
wineries offer it, but it's areally high price take. But to the
States it's always pretty reasonable to ship. So I feel like it's worthwhile to
ship if you can sell us thingsfor a while. But if it's something
that's e quick and easy to drink, it might be not worth shipping fully,
(22:04):
is Yeah. I just I thinkit's a very exciting place to visit
and for so many levels of food, to the wine, and the beautiful
scenery as well. But I justhad a thought as well, like maybe
visiting in winter is probably not agood idea. I think most of these
places will probably be closed, right, yeah, I think the only way,
(22:26):
Yeah, the only reason I wouldmaybe visit in winter, which I
know is on your bucket list,Katie, is Christmas time. But it
wouldn't be from a wine perspective.That would just be from you know,
seeing the beautiful Christmas lights set upin these charming towns in the Ittria Valley.
But yeah, not for wineries,no, not, probably not for
most. Like we actually someone reachedout to me after the Barrier episode and
(22:48):
said, oh, when's the besttime to visit? And I do think
it's probably late spring to early fall, early autumn, because you know,
like we're saying, they're not aslike as mature is the other side,
which is great of the country,and they like to have a nice long
break absolutely, yeah, and thenthey work really hard in the summertime LifeWise
(23:11):
as well, visiting in the heatof the summer that's also maybe not the
best time if you can't because itgets so hot. So if you're going
to do that, just think you'regoing to be at the swimming pool of
your villa or at the beach.You're not going to want to do a
lot of sight seeing in the heat. It gets extremely hot. Yeah,
yeah up in so thirty five toforty degree celsius is an above one hundred
(23:36):
degrees fahrenheit. Yeah, it isa very very hot area, which lucky
for them, makes amazing wine.So that's good, exactly. Well,
I just love how Poolia is quietlybuilding itself into a force to be reckoned
with both in terms of wine andtourism. It's really quite their renaissance,
and I can't wait to see what'sahead for them, can you? Oh
(23:56):
I can't wait. Yeah, Ilove it too. Yeah, but yeah,
it's exciting as well because they haven'treached their full potential yet, you
know, in everything, I guessin terms of wine and also you know
some of these hotels that are beingdeveloped. Yeah, let's see how it
goes. Yeah, I think itmight be going back peel. I'm feeling
the pool of Pulia definitely. Okay, Now, if our listeners are keen
(24:17):
to learn more about Primativo and theother wines of Pulia and the tear Drop
Rose. How can they stay intouch with you and Italian Wine Tales So
you can follow us on Instagram atItalian Wine Tales as well as on our
website Italian Winetales dot com. Andwe also have a Facebook community, Italian
Wine Lovers, you know, wherepeople share their favorite wines and have a
(24:38):
bit more of a collaborative discussion aboutItalian wines. And you know what everyone's
drinking at the moment. Amazing sograutier living Andrea, thank you for sharing
your knowledge of this delicious wine regionwith us. I'm untold itly today.
Thank you, Katie, It's alwaysa pleasure. Thanks for having us again.
Shoo really is so exciting these days, from the wine to its lovely
(25:03):
cities and towns, and of coursethe delicious food that we pair with the
wine. I've yet to meet anyonewho was disappointed by the time they spent
in Pulia, including some very particularwine loving friends who were a bit skeptical
of what they would find there,and we're pleasantly surprised. Our untold Italy
tours of Pulia are extremely popular andwe could have sold out those trips several
(25:25):
more times the ones that we offeredin twenty twenty four, So if you're
interested in joining us to explore thisfascinating region and enjoy its amazing wine and
visit wineries carefully selected by Olivia,you'll need to sign up early to avoid
disappointment. As always, we've provideda list of the wines, grapes and
places mentioned, as well as alink to our Pulier tours into our dedicated
(25:48):
show notes for this episode found atUntold Italy dot com forward slash two two
nine. Make sure you have alook around our website while you're there.
There are hundreds of articles designed tohelp you build your dream trip to Italy.
We're very proud of the information wesend out into the world. It's
based on a love for Italy andchecked regularly so you know that it's up
to date. Grouzier thanks to allour wonderful listeners for your ongoing support of
(26:14):
Untold Italy. I hope you enjoyedtoday's show. If you did, it
would be wonderful if you gave usa rating or review in your favorite podcast
app that helps us reach more Italyloving travelers. Just like you. On
next week's episode, we're heading toanother beautiful part of Italy to explore and
uncover unique experiences in the untold way. But until then, it's chowfin now.
(26:38):
The Untold Italy Podcast is an independentproduction podcast editing, audio production and
website development by Mark Hatter, Productionassistance and content writing by the are they
kJ Clark, Yes, there aretwo of us. For more information about
Untold Italy, please visit Untold Italydot com to
This is the Untold Italy Travel podcastand you are listening to episode number two
hundred and twenty nine. Chawatooti andBenvenuti Too one told Italy the travel podcast
to where you go to the townsand villages, mountains and lakes, hills
(00:21):
and coastlines of Bella, Italia.Each week, your host Katie Clark takes
you on a journey in a searchof magical landscapes, history, culture,
wine, gelato, and of coursea whole lot of pasta. If you're
dreaming of Italy and planning future adventuresthere, you've come to the right place.
(00:50):
Chao Tuti, Benvenuti, Welcome toanother Italian wine episode, and this
time we're visiting the beautiful Pulia region. Our friends Olivia and Andrea from Italian
Wine Tales are here to tell youall about this exciting and up and coming
wine region that's emerging from being historicallyan area of mass wine production rather than
(01:11):
a place known for refined and curatedwines. We've chatted about the renaissance that's
going on in Pulia in just abouteverything tourism, food and the rejuvenation of
cities, and now it's time totalk about Pulizy wine. It's an exciting
time to visit Pulia, so let'shear all about what you'll be drinking when
you get there. Ben don ARTIwelcome back to the Unhold Italy podcast.
(01:37):
Andrea and Olivia Choah, okay everyone, yay, hooray, so good to
chat with you again. Now what'snew in the world of Italian wine?
What have we been drinking lately?Well, actually, I just did our
order for our wedding. We're havinga little in the piazza afterwards, and
since it's going to be in Umbria, I decided to order so sparkling wine
(02:00):
from one of our favorite wineries inumbrother Do, a sparkling rose and a
sparkling white, and it's called ginnyNor, which means little thing in Umbrian
dialect. So I thought that wasa nice touch. So that's what our
guests will have to look forward to. Yes, okay, well, I
hope you got quite a few bottlesof that rose, because as you know,
(02:21):
I do like a rose. Anyway, that was a bit of a
piky question because of course wine hasbeen evolving in Italy since well before the
Romans, as you know, exactly. Anyway, it's so great to have
you back. And before we getstarted on talking about a region that we're
really passionate about, can you quicklygive everyone a quick bio and let them
(02:42):
know why you're so thrilled to talkabout Italian wine. We're free to talk
about Italian wine because we have ouron blog and Instagram page you just called
Italian Wine. We try to talkabout Italian wine in a friendly way so
that it's accessible to everyone, butgiving right information. So did you and
get accustomed to do Italian wines?Yeah, we're both undertaking our Smellia certificate
(03:07):
at the moment, and yeah,that led us to become more passionate about
Italian wine and create Italian wine tails. Yeah, and you're doing such a
great job, and it's so greatto I think, just simplify, not
simplify, but just make it,as you say, more accessible, because
I think one appreciation and tasting canbe a little bit intimidating at times,
(03:29):
and it's great to have it ina more friendly way, as you say.
I've been looking forward today's chat becauseof course we're going to explore the
wine of one of our favorite regionsin Pulia, which is also one of
issually's biggest wine producing regions. ButI'm sure one that not a lot of
people know much about. So youcan help everyone picture what it's like.
(03:50):
Can you describe Pulia and it's geographyand point out maybe where the wine making
areas are. Yes, so foreveryone it doesn't know what Polia is.
First of all, picture Italy,so the boot and pull. It is
right than hill, so southeast ofItaly. It's on the sea. It's
a very beautiful region, especially insummer, where wine is now becoming an
(04:11):
up and important part of their economyand the part of the society. It
wasn't until the nineteen seventies where bigchange in fields of your wine production happened,
and it focused mainly at the beginningon a wine called negramato, a
red wine, and now still tothis day there is a lot of red
wine produced there, Negramato or primitivo, which is the most famous one,
(04:32):
and for the American listeners you mightknow it as the zin funder the same
grape, just produced differently, ofcourse. But it's interesting Pulia because for
a long time, you know itis one of the biggest wine producers,
but it was all bulk wine andwas being sent all over Italy and even
in France to cut wine, andit was the white Pulie as of wine
(04:54):
was actually being used as the basefor Vermouth, which was interesting. So
it's yeah, not really until morerecent times that Pulliers and wine has started
to become They've improved the methods ofproducing in the cellar but also in the
vineyards, and it still hasn't reachedits full potential. So I think this
is a wine region to watch,and you can also get a lot of
(05:16):
really good value wines from Pullia atthe moment too, but it's definitely an
up and coming one, so we'llsee some really interesting wines coming out of
this region. It years to come. Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't
it How we're seeing Pullia. It'sa little bit under the radar. It's
sort of going about its own businesslike quietly, quietly, just you know,
(05:39):
building up expertise not just in winemaking but also in tourism. But
there's a lot of similarities there,and yeah, I think it's really fascinating
and it's exciting to watch an areawhere they're not bound by so much tradition,
so they've got a little bit moreartistic license maybe to try some new
(06:00):
things. Yeah, I was sayingthat it's interesting because there are red wines,
as I said, but white winesand roses as well, which may
talk about later a bit more,because especially for the rose wine, there
is a little interesting in cue storyabout it, which I'll tell you later
when we come to it. Okay, all right, So let's get a
little bit deeper into the region andthe wines. And so where do you
(06:25):
want to start? Red or whiteor will leave rose to the end.
Maybe we start with the red wines, because we should say that most of
the wine produced in the area isred or rose. And so the main
grapes are negro mao premitivo, whichand I mentioned before, and the Troya
grape over the Troya. And youknow, the wines down here Pullias are
(06:47):
very hot region. They have hotsummers and mild winters. And all of
that to say is that therefore thewines are quite alcoholic normally too. So
they're big, they're fruit forward,there's nothing kind of you know, yeah,
they're not. They're a big glassof wine, is what I'm trying
to say. It's hard to drinkthem by themselves. It's better to drink
(07:09):
them while you're eating a meal.They pair perfectly with the food down there
exactly. Yeah. I mean there'sa lot of vegetable based dishes in Point,
but also a lot of meat baseddishes too, which you might not
think at first, given that they'realso on the coast, But they do
have a big tradition of lots ofsausages and baked lamb and you know meat
(07:29):
like this, which goes perfectly withthe primitive or from Manduria or one of
the even bombin oneiros another red winegrape. Yeah, yeah, I think
it's interesting. Maybe these wines maybe a little bit more familiar to our
palettes as people from as they liketo say in the UK call us the
(07:51):
New World. So the New Worldwine, like from California or from Australia.
They're like a bit more bold andthey've got a lot more I guess
flavor. It's it's a bit morepunch in the face kind of or punch
in the mouth. That's the wordsI'm looking for. I think, especially
(08:11):
if people like a big, boldred and they're looking for something that's kind
of the most top quality in Pulia, you'd look for a primitive or di
Manduria docs. We've spoken in otherepisodes about what DOOC means like a market
quality, and this is a reallystrong, full bodied wine. And when
we say full bodied, we reallydo mean full bodied aged in a barrick
(08:35):
you can expect, you know,like those candied fruits, fig, almonds,
licorice, tobacco. That's a deliciouswine, but a FOODI wine obviously
not having that for a perativo hour. Tell me what's a berrick? Barrick
is a wooden barrel. That's agood question. Yes, it's where you
put wine to age, especially redwine, and it gives this often you
(08:56):
can find it when you have anaftertaste of like lickoryish or tobacco, those
like vanilla, Yes, exactly.And it's very important also the oak or
the wood that it's made of,especially there are some woods that are specifically
grown in parts of Europe, likeSlovenia or France, which as specifically grown
(09:16):
just to make ricks. Because it'svery important the wood that you use.
So for example, they would notreally use at all here for obvious reasons,
American oak because they've got the Europeanoak. But it's also a little
bit more porous, and you haveto smoke it before you use it,
and then of course the more youuse it over time, the better it
(09:37):
is because it absorbs the wine andit lets the wine breed as well,
because it's as she said, it'sporous or egg can filter through in and
out and it helps the wine agecorrectly. So where will we find these
ones? So if we think aboutthe main towns in Pulia, We've got
Ari, which is the capital,which we had heard about on the podcast
(09:58):
a few weeks ago, and that'son the coast, and we a lot
of people probably know Albertobello and maybelet cha, So where were these wine
growing regions? So we have wineproducing areas, especially in Valeditria, Martina
Franca and Stanino to the Atrio ValleiriAl yes exactly something also, yes,
(10:20):
producer around Pari. But I wouldjust especially Alberobello, not only for the
wine producing itself, because it's alsoa very beautiful town and it's amazing to
visit. Exactly. They have thetypical Puyasa houses which are called the truly
very magical. If you manage togo and visit, it's a magical experience.
(10:41):
And in the Valdetria as well.The Atria valley. Loco Rotondo is
another town that we also visit onour tour by the way in Pulia,
but they produce a lot of wine, and there's a place there where you
can even go and have a perativoin the vignyards. You can just walk
down from the town, So wecan put that in the show notes maybe,
and yes, it's full of vigneyards. In the Istria valley near Leche.
(11:05):
You've got to get out a littlebit. Lecher's like the town and
around of Lecher. They don't reallyproduce wine, so you've got to kind
of go back up towards Austuni,where they produce lots of wine, and
they've got a really interesting wine thatis produced also in France and South Africa
with different names. It's called theaustuny Doc red wine. In French it
(11:28):
is i Yuess, It's called ChinSaud bringing a Balis. In South and
South Africa it's called Hermitage. It'san easy red wine. So maybe that
one could go with Eropibo if you'relooking for a red wine to have for
and then if you go all theway down to the very south of Pulia.
You come to the Salento area,which absolutely beautiful. That's great for
(11:50):
beaches. They've got some stunning beaches, but also stunning wines. They produce
a lot of wine. Obviously that'sgoing to be really high alcohol too,
because it gets incredibly hot in theCilento. And then if you come back
up on the other part of Pulia, when you're going back up what's that
part called and Ernie Gallipoli need anothercoffee? If you come back up around
(12:13):
there, they produce a lot ofwine too, and that's where you'll find,
you know, going back up thereManduria. Mandura is an amazing wine
producing area and they say that that'swhere the best of the best premittee all
comes from. And can you tellus about some of the up and coming
wineries there, like some of yourfavorites where you can try some of the
(12:33):
typical and maybe some more exciting versionsof these local wines. Well, I
have to mention first of all,it's a small winery, which normally on
this podcast we give you know,kind of bigger wineries which we will give
one to go and visit, butbeing Australian, we have to talk about
one called more La because it's inManduria, and I just love this story
(12:56):
because it's an Australian woman and herspend who are running the winery and they
produce all these different kinds of primitiveor wines. It's a biodynamic winery too,
so you know that can be ata little bit interesting to visit because
they follow the cycles of the moonand you know, maybe we might have
to do another episode about biodynamic whymaking one day. It's very interesting,
(13:18):
but yeah, they're making really topquality, award winning wines there. It's
a really small winery, so ifyou're looking for more of an off the
beaten path experience, you could gothere. And of course, since the
wife's Australian, they speak English,so that's another thing whereas you know a
lot of these other smaller wineries theydon't. So you really do need to
visit with a tour to get themost out of your experience. But we
(13:39):
do have another option for you aswell. We is called E Pastini,
which is at the heart of theYtrie Valley. So you are in a
land, a beautiful land between LocoRondo and Martina Franca, and in this
winery their goal is to recover andpromote the ancient grape varieties that were found
and grown in Vala in the etriof Valet originally. So they're doing a
(14:03):
good job at that. Yeah,and that's a nice one to visit as
well, in the sense that ontheir website it's very easy to navigate and
book a wine tasting in English,which is not always the norm. As
we always say when we talk aboutItalian one, whenever you want to visit
the winery, always remember to bookan advance because that's very important. It's
very hard to just show up andhave tasting, and that's because these people
(14:26):
are working and actually making wine andor doing every other job they have around
the winery. So it's it's reallynot as much like what we have in
the United States or Australia where theyhave working cellar doors, except for some
of the really bigger wine companies likeAntonori maybe in Tuscany and more established places.
(14:48):
Yeah, so yeah, definitely makesure you book. But we haven't
mentioned as well. Pully also produceswhite wines, so if you like white
wines, then you're in the rightplace too. I mean, really have
something for everyone here as well assparkling, and even they're starting to make
some really interesting schumanth there. Soif you like sweet sparkling, it's for
you too. But for the whitewines, the main grapes are verdeca malvasia,
(15:13):
and everyone will be familiar with chardonnay, but the Verdeca I love.
And on our tour Empuya we goto a secret winery where we have this
delicious verdica and every time we go, I have to buy a bottle because
it's mineral and crisp and you've gotyou know, green apple notes and like
the flowers, and yeah, it'sjust perfect with seafood of course, which
(15:35):
Pullia has a lot of seafood too. It's good to pay with one of
the typical regional dishes, which arethe the oeta is the typical passa shape.
As you all know, every regionnearly has their own pasachet, and
in Puya they have their which Icalled like that because they resemble little ears.
And this white wine that LE wasmentioning pairs perfectly with this tip gold
(16:00):
dish, so absolutely a master totry. Oh yeah, I could go
for a plate of that pasta anda glass of wine right now, oh
goodness. And somewhere is that oneproduced. Is that in around the Valdtria
as well. Yeah, a littlebit further down, it's just out of
OUSTONI oh, around that area.That kind of leads us as well to
(16:22):
talk about rose a true because inPula they also make delicious rose, which
is not very known in the sensethat whenever you think about rose, you
don't often think about Pulia. Butthey have this interesting way of producing rose
in here, because how do youproduce rose. You either have a blend
or red and white wine together,or you leave the red grape in contact
(16:45):
the juice of the red grape incontact with the skin because the color of
the wine is taken by the skins, but not for long couple exactly.
What important is that they have thisinteresting system called systema a la cima,
which you could translate it as likeshe drop system or something like. And
they put the red grapes in bigbags and they gently press it, they
(17:10):
generally squeeze it so that the mask, the juice, the best part of
it drips down like tears, soit stays in contact with the skin for
a very very limited amount of time, and it drips down from these bags
like a tear, and they producerosette wine in this way, which is
unique way to you to do it. We've never seen it anywhere else about
(17:32):
it anywhere else before. Yeah,and they use negro amount of for it.
So the red grape one of themost famous of the region and it's
a rosette wine negro amouto. Soif you like negro matter, but you
want it a bit lighter and abit lighter version, you can try this
rosette wine. Oh, that soundsamazing. What would you ate with that
one? You could eat as well, something light for example, some fish
(17:56):
for sure, or a pasta dish, but or baccala. They even have
done it, but I would suggestit also for a nice view perfectly,
yeah exactly. I mean when we'reon tour in Pulia, I have to
say, the rose is always everyone'sfavorite because it's that perfect in between and
the weather is always kind of balmyand not too hot but not too cold,
(18:19):
so everyone's kind of pairing their rosewith all the delicious things that we
eat from the burata that's kind ofdrizzling down your face because it's so creamy
and delicious, to the beautiful freshseafood and lots of raw seafood because they
have a Bari episode. You weretalking about the Pulis sashimi style. See,
(18:41):
yeah, even though that goes delicious, it's a crunchy terrari as well.
Exactly. Yeah, they're so good, are they? They're so laury,
So they're cherally a the little biscuitsor savory cookies, and they're really
crunchy and they laved different things yummyand you can't once chipop, you can't
(19:03):
stop. That's not it's very addictive, but I feel like it's not mass
produced. Some lady's been hand rollingthat, so it's all good. Yeah.
Absolutely, And if you come ontour with us, we learn to
make to Rulli biscuits too, whichis very dangerous because you won't ever stop
making them. Now. The thingabout Pulia, and I can imagine it's
(19:26):
especially true with the Wineries, isthat you will definitely need a car to
get it around, right. Absolutely. Look, I mean you mentioned in
the Bari episode as well that that'sa good base if you're not going to
have a car, because you canget to a few places like Paula Jan
or Monopoly or Leche. But besidesthat, it is extremely difficult if you
(19:47):
don't have a car. I mean, part of the beauty of it is
it's not a slick operation. It'sreally more rusty, and you're really meeting
people that are trying new things anddoing something a little bit different and there
like you know, learning along theway. And I just think that's so
much more charming in a lot ofways than if someone's you know, like
it's it's nice to have a veryprofessional experience, but sometimes it's also really
(20:11):
lovely to have a charming, like, face to face local experience. Totally,
absolutely, And the people in Puliah, they're just the hospitality is another
level. They're so generous, they'reso friendly and welcoming. So when you
visit these wineries as well, that'sthe experience you're going to have. It's
not a commercial experience at all.It's very authentic. Even if we don't
(20:34):
like using that authentic word. That'sme, that's my that's my issue.
But with those wines, for me, my instinct is that they're like easy
drink. You drink them straight away. These things that you sell are or
not so much well, you can, given that the quality of the wine
production is improving constantly. Now youcan, especially with the premetiv or you
(20:56):
could define own wines, especially onethat aging in the barricks of course in
the but if you want to buythere are as we said, like red
wines for example, the Stuny Docor the white wines you can be on
there or that's something to drink now. And we're not saying that because they're
(21:17):
not good. They are very good. They're ready to drink, they're ready
the market, especially the white wines, like I wouldn't you know, I'd
drink them sooner other than later aswell. Yeah. Are the wineries set
up for shipping to all different partsof the world. Depends which one you
go to, but most of them, I would say, especially the ones
(21:41):
we go to on tour, youcan ship. Just to Australia's always the
issues. Only think anywhere that yougo because shipping is so expensive. Some
wineries offer it, but it's areally high price take. But to the
States it's always pretty reasonable to ship. So I feel like it's worthwhile to
ship if you can sell us thingsfor a while. But if it's something
that's e quick and easy to drink, it might be not worth shipping fully,
(22:04):
is Yeah. I just I thinkit's a very exciting place to visit
and for so many levels of food, to the wine, and the beautiful
scenery as well. But I justhad a thought as well, like maybe
visiting in winter is probably not agood idea. I think most of these
places will probably be closed, right, yeah, I think the only way,
(22:26):
Yeah, the only reason I wouldmaybe visit in winter, which I
know is on your bucket list,Katie, is Christmas time. But it
wouldn't be from a wine perspective.That would just be from you know,
seeing the beautiful Christmas lights set upin these charming towns in the Ittria Valley.
But yeah, not for wineries,no, not, probably not for
most. Like we actually someone reachedout to me after the Barrier episode and
(22:48):
said, oh, when's the besttime to visit? And I do think
it's probably late spring to early fall, early autumn, because you know,
like we're saying, they're not aslike as mature is the other side,
which is great of the country,and they like to have a nice long
break absolutely, yeah, and thenthey work really hard in the summertime LifeWise
(23:11):
as well, visiting in the heatof the summer that's also maybe not the
best time if you can't because itgets so hot. So if you're going
to do that, just think you'regoing to be at the swimming pool of
your villa or at the beach.You're not going to want to do a
lot of sight seeing in the heat. It gets extremely hot. Yeah,
yeah up in so thirty five toforty degree celsius is an above one hundred
(23:36):
degrees fahrenheit. Yeah, it isa very very hot area, which lucky
for them, makes amazing wine.So that's good, exactly. Well,
I just love how Poolia is quietlybuilding itself into a force to be reckoned
with both in terms of wine andtourism. It's really quite their renaissance,
and I can't wait to see what'sahead for them, can you? Oh
(23:56):
I can't wait. Yeah, Ilove it too. Yeah, but yeah,
it's exciting as well because they haven'treached their full potential yet, you
know, in everything, I guessin terms of wine and also you know
some of these hotels that are beingdeveloped. Yeah, let's see how it
goes. Yeah, I think itmight be going back peel. I'm feeling
the pool of Pulia definitely. Okay, Now, if our listeners are keen
(24:17):
to learn more about Primativo and theother wines of Pulia and the tear Drop
Rose. How can they stay intouch with you and Italian Wine Tales So
you can follow us on Instagram atItalian Wine Tales as well as on our
website Italian Winetales dot com. Andwe also have a Facebook community, Italian
Wine Lovers, you know, wherepeople share their favorite wines and have a
(24:38):
bit more of a collaborative discussion aboutItalian wines. And you know what everyone's
drinking at the moment. Amazing sograutier living Andrea, thank you for sharing
your knowledge of this delicious wine regionwith us. I'm untold itly today.
Thank you, Katie, It's alwaysa pleasure. Thanks for having us again.
Shoo really is so exciting these days, from the wine to its lovely
(25:03):
cities and towns, and of coursethe delicious food that we pair with the
wine. I've yet to meet anyonewho was disappointed by the time they spent
in Pulia, including some very particularwine loving friends who were a bit skeptical
of what they would find there,and we're pleasantly surprised. Our untold Italy
tours of Pulia are extremely popular andwe could have sold out those trips several
(25:25):
more times the ones that we offeredin twenty twenty four, So if you're
interested in joining us to explore thisfascinating region and enjoy its amazing wine and
visit wineries carefully selected by Olivia,you'll need to sign up early to avoid
disappointment. As always, we've provideda list of the wines, grapes and
places mentioned, as well as alink to our Pulier tours into our dedicated
(25:48):
show notes for this episode found atUntold Italy dot com forward slash two two
nine. Make sure you have alook around our website while you're there.
There are hundreds of articles designed tohelp you build your dream trip to Italy.
We're very proud of the information wesend out into the world. It's
based on a love for Italy andchecked regularly so you know that it's up
to date. Grouzier thanks to allour wonderful listeners for your ongoing support of
(26:14):
Untold Italy. I hope you enjoyedtoday's show. If you did, it
would be wonderful if you gave usa rating or review in your favorite podcast
app that helps us reach more Italyloving travelers. Just like you. On
next week's episode, we're heading toanother beautiful part of Italy to explore and
uncover unique experiences in the untold way. But until then, it's chowfin now.
(26:38):
The Untold Italy Podcast is an independentproduction podcast editing, audio production and
website development by Mark Hatter, Productionassistance and content writing by the are they
kJ Clark, Yes, there aretwo of us. For more information about
Untold Italy, please visit Untold Italydot com to
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