July 21, 2023 • 55 mins
Getting around Italy can be tricky even when you're physically able, but how about if you're traveling in a wheelchair or have limited mobility? Our guest Aimee Maldonado shares practical tips and ideas for having an incredible time in Italy - choosing hotels, train travel, rolling around the small streets and more.
Read the full episode show notes here > untolditaly.com/183
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The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke - yes there are two of us!
Read the full episode show notes here > untolditaly.com/183
Support the show
Join our mailing list and get our FREE Italy trip planning checklist - subscribe here | Join us on tour: Trip schedule | Discover our Trip Planning Services | Visit our online store | Follow: Instagram • Facebook • YouTube • Italy Travel Planning Community
The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke - yes there are two of us!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is the Untold Italy Travel Podcastand you are listening to episode number one
hundred and eighty three. Chatti andben Venuti to U Told Italy the travel
podcast to where you go to thetownsend villages, mountains, the lakes,
(00:21):
hills and coast lines of Bella,Italia. Each week, your host Katie
Clark takes you on a journey ina search of magical landscapes, history,
culture, wine, zelato, andof course a whole lot of pasta.
If you're dreaming of Italy and planningfuture adventures there, you've come to the
right place. Jaw Ben Venuti.Friends. On this episode, I'm talking
(00:55):
about a topic that I think isvery important, and to be honest,
it's taken quite a while to findjust the right person who I could chat
about it with. But I amdelighted to say that I have found exactly
the right person, and today we'rechatting about wheelchair accessible and general accessibility issues
when traveling in Italy. Now,if you've spent any time in our favorite
(01:17):
country, then you may have wonderedwhat it would be like to get around
if you weren't fully mobile in aplace where many of us do. Over
twenty thousand steps a day. Whatis the experience for people who get around
in a wheelchair or who have limitedmobility. To be honest, the thought
of it is quite daunting to me. But then enrolled my new friend Amy
(01:38):
Maldonado, who is an absolute inspirationand is here today to share her amazing
tips for getting around and having afabulous time in Italy in a wheelchair.
Amy is based in the United States, but she also has an apartment in
Florence, so she's truly living thedream in that respect and spend lots of
her time initially exploring on her ownin her emmanual wheelchair. Now, even
(02:02):
if you're not concerned with mobility,this is a truly inspiring, an eye
opening discussion about what is possible withincredible determination and tenacity. Amy's got so
many tips and bits of useful advicefor you, So let's dive right in.
Ben Venuta, Amy Chow and welcometo the Untold Italy podcast. Thank
(02:23):
you for having me today. SoI'm actually so thrilled to have you joined
us, Amy, as we hada bit of a chat last week and
this conversation is well well over you. I'm so thrilled to have found you.
But before we dive into our chatabout accessible travel in Italy, can
you share a little bit about yourstory, your background, and how you
(02:44):
came to fall in love with andspend so much time in Italy. Yes,
I was born in the US.My parents are from Mexico, but
I completely fell in love with Italy. I went the first time by accident,
and then I never stopped going back. I loved It's so much that
now I've boughten an apartment in Florenceand I go as often as possible.
(03:07):
I am a full time wheelchair user, so that surprises people sometimes as to
how I get around, but Iactually find it fairly accessible, and I
tell everybody the three most inaccessible citiesI've been to are actually in the US,
and they're DC, in New Yorkand Boston. It's amazing, isn't
it. You know, we havethese assumptions about what works and what doesn't
(03:30):
and how you can manage in differentenvironments. But I think, you know,
the best way to resolve some ofthese assumptions is to actually dive in
and have a chat about what actuallyworks and doesn't work when you're in a
wheelchair. So Amy, but beforewe get onto that. Can you just
tell me what's the most favorite thingthat you love about Italy? What is
(03:51):
it what makes your heart seeing It'sthe people, it's the culture. To
me, when I'm there, Ifeel at home. I tell people,
if there's such thing as past as, I think I must have lived there.
I totally understand that feeling absolutely allright. Yeah, I just it's
one of those places that if youfeel at home, you know, and
(04:12):
I think a lot of the listenersthat are listening today have that feeling too.
When I'm there, I feel atpeace, I feel calm, I'm
stress free. I love it.And it's so funny because a lot of
people think, you know, Italyis like hugely chaotic plays, but it's
been going on like that for avery long time, and they've got their
way of doing things, and aslong as you know how to kind of
(04:33):
navigate those with the cultural aspects andall of those things, and I do
feel like you can fit right invery easily. Okay, so Amy,
I think you know, most ablebodied people will probably take some of these
things for granted, but we thoughtwe would help everyone have an understanding of
what are some of the challenges wheelchairusers face when they're traveling in Italy because
(04:59):
you know, even in the shortchat I had with Amy before, we
open my eyes to so many things. So I mean, let's just have
a go at some things that mightbe challenging about hotel stays in need to
ly First of all, I thinkwe have to have a very open mind
as to what accessibility is because everybody'sversion of accessibilities different and everybody's needs are
different, so it's going to varyfrom person to person. I try to
(05:25):
be as open as possible, andwhat works for me might not work for
somebody else. I start off with. My wheelchair is emmanual wheelchair. It's
fairly light and it's fairly narrow,so I can fit in through a lot
of doors. It might not bevery wide that other wheelchair users might not
be able to fit in through.So to start off hotels, you always
(05:49):
want to check for accessibility, butdon't just go based on what it says.
You have to ask the right questions. The hotel might say that it
has an elevator, so then youmake the assumption that it's ulture accessible.
Well in Italy and any places inEurope, there might be two or three
steps to get to the elevator,So it does you know good that there's
(06:13):
an elevator if there are steps withouta ramp, or there might be an
elevator outside, but to get intothe hotel there might be two or three
steps. So one of the thingsI do is try to look for pictures
of the hotel where I could seekind of what the entrance looks like,
if it's at street level, ifnot, if there's a ramp, or
(06:34):
if there might be a side entrancewhere there might be a ramp, and
then just ask. There's a hotelthat I really like in Rome, and
if you look at it from theoutside, there's three steps to get in,
but they have a ramp that theybring out in it's not a problem
staying there and I love it.Oh what's the name of that hotel?
The al it's right in front ofthe Pantheon. Oh, yes, I
(06:56):
love that hotel. Wow. Youwouldn't think necessarily that were a hotel in
that location would be accessible to wheelchairusers. But that's great to know.
I'm really happy to hear that.Yes. And then one thing that I
found in Italy in particular that's veryinteresting. Sometimes when it's a wheelchair accessible
room, it ends up having tworestrooms inside, so that makes it really
(07:17):
nice. When you go with somebodyelse and two people are trying to get
ready at the same time, youhave two complete restrooms. You probably don't
get too many bonuses like that,so you're going to take them when you
can. That sounds good. Ilike having my own bathroom. It's happened
to me at four different hotels inItaly, and I think it's the most
interesting thing. So what are someother things that you need to think about
at hotels? Because I can imagine, like I'm just thinking about a hotel
(07:41):
that I stay at sometimes near there, which is Alberga Desole, and it's
got steps to get down into themain breakfast area. And some hotels well,
and then at that point there's somethat have ramps that they'll bring out,
and then there's some that are willingto accommodate you. They'll say,
well, we'll take your breakfast toyour room, or we could set it
(08:03):
up in this other part of thehotel. So then that depends on you
whether you're comfortable with that. Iam very flexible with that, so to
me, that would work for manypeople. They feel like they want to
be with everyone else, and that'sunderstandable too. Yeah, yeah, I
do understand it. And some ofthese hotels are quite small, so I'd
like even just thinking about that hotel, even if you were to get down
(08:26):
into that area and in the buffet, it would be actually quite hard to
maneuver around. I think so.But I'm sure at that hotel, which
I do love, is that thatwould the staff would go and help you
and bring something to you. Andthat's one thing that I found in early
and most of the hotels the breakfastto set up the face style, and
other employees are always willing to helpin a like what do you want,
(08:48):
I'll go serve you, and I'mlike, oh, don't worry about it.
I can serve myself. But they'realways willing to accommodate and help.
And sometimes I do accept the helpbecause it's just very busy and I don't
want to be in the way ordrop anything. So I just every time
I do it differently depending on thissituation. It sounds like you have to
just be generally very flexible when youare traveling any life, which you know.
(09:11):
I think it's a good reminder forthose of us that have daily high
expectations that flexibility is the key.Yes. And then also it helps to
know the measurements of your wheelchair,both the width and the depth of it.
The reason you want to know thatis because you want to know if
(09:31):
the elevator doors are going to bewide enough if there's an elevator. Usually
the room doors are not an issue, but in most places around the world,
what I found is that the doorsto go into the restroom tend to
be narrower than the doors to gointo the bedroom, so an issue might
arise there. And do you justemail the hotels and ask them again?
(09:54):
I normally start off by looking atpictures, and I've got them pretty good
of being able to tell if thedoor looks fairly wide or not. And
if I don't see any pictures ofwhat I need, And I also google
to see if there's any reviews fromanybody that stayed in a ultair. When
I do reviews, I try toput in there. But I'm a wheelchair
user, so people kind of havean idea. But if not, then
(10:16):
I will email the hotel and thenask them these questions. Would you be
using the standard booking sites to findthose reviews or is there something that's specifically
dedicated to wheelchair users that you canaccess. There are new services now that
have started trying to cater to ultairusers. I have not used them,
(10:37):
so I don't know how reliable orhow big of an inventory or selection they
have. I normally just check ontrip Advisor, but also just do a
general Google search. Good to nightand I think you know if you book
on booking dot com they do haveaccessible like well, you can eliminate things,
shall we say, and so younarrow things down rather than my make
(11:00):
the final selection using them. They'vegot quite a few good filters there.
But I mean you can immediately seeif it doesn't have an elevator, so
they can be eliminated from your search. There's a lot of things to think
about, isn't there exactly? Andagain just because it says wheelchair accessible,
sometimes they mark that it might notnecessarily be accessible. So you want to
(11:22):
double check all of those things.Yeah, I mean, remember when we
were talking last week, you mentionedI asked you why don't you use an
electric wheelchair? And you had areally good response, So electric wheelchairs.
I am fortunate enough that I canuse a manual one. Some people are
down to an electric one and sothey don't have the choice. But if
(11:43):
you have the choice, I woulduse a manual one because it's easier,
it's going to give you more flexibility, it's later, and it's going to
open up more accessibility because the manualones tend to be smaller and more compact,
and you can collapse them as well. Right, Yes, So that's
another thing. If I want toget around the city, normally I just
(12:07):
roll around everywhere, and smaller citieslike Florence in Rome, usually I just
stay in the center and can rollaround anywhere. But if I'm ever going
to take a taxi, then Ican take any taxi. I don't have
to wait for an accessible one,which might be harder to find and might
being on existent and smaller cities.So I just can transfer from my chair
(12:28):
into the taxi and then the chaircan be placed in the chunk or the
back seat, whatever's most convenient atthat point. M Now, Italian taxi
drivers have not maybe the best reputation, but if they've always been helpful towards
you, I've never had an issuewith any of them. They've all always
been very kind they're always, youknow, willing to put the chair.
(12:50):
I do a lot of traveling bymyself, so if I'm by myself,
I just jump in the taxi.They take care of putting the chair in
the back. It's no matter ofme telling them how to collapse it and
how to take the wheels off orwhatever needs to be done. I think
it's worth mentioning that you also,your Italian is very good. Sorry,
(13:11):
I mean he's studying. I thinkyou do two lessons. Await, right,
yes I do. I guess thathelps. I will say that when
I arrive whatever city I'm arriving too, and that's just across the world,
I like to have a private driverto pick me up and take me to
the hotel or wherever I'm staying,because when I get there, there's more
(13:33):
suitcases, so it might be harderto fit the wheelchair and the suitcases,
especially if I'm traveling with other people. Also, there might be strikes,
and so I have my driver guaranteedand I don't have to stand in a
taxi line after a really long flight. Yeah, that's a great tip.
I think it's good for everyone really, but especially you don't want to be
(13:54):
navigating taxis and big long queues withluggage because you know when I mean,
and I would before I really hada light to a moment, well how
do you actually move around with yourluggage? And I was kind of all
of these realizations were coming to me, and I was kind of a bit
disappointed in myself that I hadn't reallythought about it before. But I can
imagine, like just trying to navigatean airport with your luggage. It's a
(14:18):
bit of a challenge too. Itravel a lot, so I have practice
just kind of rolling it by myside or pushing it in front of me,
but not everybody can do that.In one thing, I found that
in Italy in particular, they're verynice at the airport, and they helped
me from the time that they helpedme get on and off the airplane all
(14:39):
the way to getting my suitcases,getting it off the you know, the
conveyor bill, and then bringing thesuitcase with me all the way to the
taxi. Versus here in the US, they helped me get off the plane
and then I'm kind of on myown. Oh, it's interesting. Can
(15:00):
you do some of the airlines betterthan others? And it is? It?
Maybe the airline staff and you couldpre order that or is it typically
just the ground staff the people thatget you on and up the plane.
Those are run by the airport,So it's the ground staff and it has
nothing to do with the airline.I know my parents are traveling later this
year and they're traveling on Emirates andthey do have services that you can pre
(15:24):
order. But I think it,Yeah, it sounds like the ground staff
in Rome pretty excellent. When you'retraveling by air, you do have to
let the airline know ahead of timethat you're going to need wheelchair assistance because
they're the ones that book can communicatewith the ground staff from the airport so
that all of that's coordinated and theycan get you on the plane. Well,
(15:46):
I'm scoot to know that you getsuch a great welcome when you get
to easily. No, Wendy,you love it so much, just like,
oh I can help, people arehelping me fantastic. In Florence,
I already know all the ground staffby namely straight into Florence generally that's where
I fly into. Okay, Well, I mean that's where your apartment is,
(16:07):
so I guess that's that's the bestplace to go. Now, what
about trains, Amy, Like Ican imagine you know a lot of people
find the prospect of getting on thetrains and navigating the stations very difficult,
even if they're not in a wheelchair. How do you manage the trains?
So the trains are also very easyto use, it's just a matter of
(16:33):
organization. The first thing you haveto do is what I typically do,
is I look at the train scheduleand kind of see what train I might
want to take. I try totake the fast train versus the regional trains
because they're just going to be moreefficient and less stops. So once I
kind of figure out the schedule thatI want to take, then I send
(16:55):
an email to the Sala Blue thatpart of every train station, and you
can find their email online and youcan also email the one in Rome and
then they'll direct you to wherever youneed it forward your email. If you're
going to go somewhere else, youneed to contact them at least twenty four
(17:17):
hours before your train departs or thetrain you want to take, because then
they have to coordinate the service.So the first thing they have to do
is make sure that the wheelchair accessiblepost is available because there's just a limited
amount of them, so that theyneed to make sure there's not someone else
that's already booked it, and aslong as it's free, then they'll reserve
(17:38):
it. If not, they'll tellyou, well, that's not available.
This is like the next closest trainto that time. And they'll ask you
generally if you have a Blue Card, which I don't because I live in
the US, and I just explainthat. And they will also ask you
if you're traveling by yourself or withsomeone else. So if you're traveling with
(18:00):
a companion, they can reserve likeyou and one person with you together,
so that you have an assistant orjust a companion with you. If it's
say three people traveling, then theywon't reserve for the third person. The
third person has to make their owntravel arrangements. Once I get that email
(18:22):
confirmation, then I have to goto the train station and buy the ticket.
So unfortunately, up to now youcannot pay and buy the ticket online,
but you have your reservation secure.So that's something I just figured out
this year. Before I used togo to the train station the day before
and buy the ticket. Now Ijust get to the train station early the
(18:45):
day I'm departing and buy the ticketand then go to my meeting point.
They usually asked me to be atthe train station about forty five minutes before
the train departs. The meeting pointchanges every time, even with them,
even within realm, so you haveto read those instructions as to where they
tell you to meet. Generally theydo not speak English at the Sala Blu,
(19:07):
but you can use Google Translate tosend that email and usually you can
figure it out. So it soundslike it might be worth while getting some
of those phrases and organizing them beforeyour trip if you're heading off, so
you've got them ready to go.Yes, And what I do now is
(19:30):
like I have a email template thatI just use every time. So I
just look at the email that Isent the time before, and then I
just change the dates, the timesand the train number. Very clever,
very clever. And so La SalaBlue is the organization that helps people in
wheelchairs in Italy? Is that oris it just related to the train station
(19:52):
or just related to the train station. So it's with the Italia. Oh,
that's a good point. So it'snot with ITAO, it's just with
train Italia I've never used. Frommy understanding, they have their own service
system that you have to go through. Okay, all right, I can
understand why you just choose one instigbecause you don't need to be learning anything
else. And they're also the onesthat have the largest train schedule, so
(20:15):
it's just easy. Yeah. Sure. And the spot on the train is
that comfortable? Is that in anice place or do they popply need the
bathroom? So usually I would Ithink it's usually carriage three and so it's
in I guess what you would callthe business section, so it's a little
bit nicer. There is an accessiblerestroom. So one tip I would say
(20:40):
is use the restroom on the trainversus at the train station, because it's
easier to find an accessible restroom onthe train than a lot of times at
the train station. And then it'syour choice. I usually transfer from my
wheelchair into the seat the train stationseat, but you can stay in your
wheelchair. They have it set upboth ways, and the people from the
(21:04):
train station from the Sala Blue,they'll help you with your luggage as well,
get it in and out of thetrain with your suitcases, and then
walk you again to the taxi ifyou need. That's good to know that
you get some help. I thinkit would be quite daunting to kind of
try and manage that on your own. But I guess it's definitely about how
(21:25):
to access that. And what I'lldo is I will grab the email address
of the Sala Blue and put itin the show notes so people can go
directly there if they want to.Right, you mentioned bathrooms, Amy,
and I think that's going to beone of the biggest things that you would
be very daunting going to another country. And Italy again is not very well
(21:48):
renowned for having great bathrooms and accessiblebathrooms, even the able bodied people.
So how do you go in yourwheelchair if you want to use the bathrooms?
Where do you go? So,again that's going to be something of
perspective. Is it a bathroom that'saccessible, that has grab bars, it's
(22:10):
special for wheelchair users? Yes,there are some. And one thing that
I really like in Italy when theydo have vulture accessible restrooms, they are
very respected versus in the US andin a lot of other countries. Everybody
wants to use the wheelchair restroom becauseit's bigger and it's more comfortable. At
airports, but in Italy no,it's separate. It's usually kept locked,
(22:32):
and even when it's not locked,people respected and don't use it unless they
are in a wheelchair or have sometype of special need as to why they
have to use it. Now,there aren't those restrooms everywhere, but usually
you can find them at museums.And one thing in general, museums are
(22:53):
usually free for wheelchair users in Italy, and so if it's an emergency and
you need to go to the restroom, sometimes you can just run into the
museum because they're not going to chargeyou. They let you skip the line,
go in and out, use therestroom and you solve your problem.
They're also at the big shopping centersthey will have multure accessible restrooms, and
(23:18):
I've found that a lot of therestaurants now have vulture accessible restrooms. There's
even a restaurant in Rome where therestroom is downstairs, but they have an
elevator that you could use to getdown to it, which I think is
amazing. And then in a lotof cities maybe the restrooms are downstairs,
(23:41):
but they will have the wiltsair accessiblerestroom and some part of the restaurant that's
upstairs and you just have to ask. Now, not everywhere has them,
and that's not the case everywhere,but always ask. Just because it seems
like they're not accessible or there's notone, doesn't mean there's not one hit
in somewhere. Should we give ashout out to the restaurant in Rome because
(24:03):
I think they deserve one. Yes, it's close to the Vatican, close
to the Vatican. With a namelike that, you'd expect. Yeah,
I mean, I think Italy hasa reputation of being difficult in a lot
of these type of things. Butit's really great to hear your perspective on
that and where to find places thatwill actually be helpful and you know,
(24:30):
provide the experience that you want tohave because you know you deserve it.
Absolutely you want to have the same, if not better experience than everyone else.
Have you been to the Rene,you know, because they have a
lot of rooftop areas. I'm wonderingif you're able to access those. I've
gone to the Reader in Florence andthey do have the rooftop and it is
(24:52):
wilchair accessible, so there is anelevator to get all the way to the
top. It is a very smallelevator and my wil or fits in perfectly,
and so one that's a little bitwider might not make it all the
way up, okay, because Ithink that's I mean it's I was thinking
when you were talking that it's adepartment store, so they would maybe have
(25:12):
some of those facilities that you mightnot expect everywhere else. And I know
there's one in Milana. I'm notsure about the accessibility of their rooftop,
but it's if you can get upthere, it's really worthwhile because it's a
beautiful view of the dorm or upthere. Yes, and like the coin
stores, they're modern. They haverestrooms inside. They also the Vatican has
(25:34):
accessible restrooms, so it's just amatter of asking. Like I said,
you never know. And also whenyou find one, go even if you
don't want to go. I knowit sounds like a little thing, but
I'm sure you might. You mightregret it later on if you don't.
When we went with my grandmother,that's what we would tell or, Okay,
(25:57):
there's a restroom here, do youwant to go? And she would
say no, and then half ablock later she wanted to go, Well,
there's not one here. Now youhave to wait. And what about
restaurants because you know, like Iguess a lot of people's favorite restaurants.
You think about them and there's likea few steps to get down, and
you know, you mentioned this onein near the Vatican that sounds amazing with
(26:18):
this leaf, But how do youmanage getting into the restaurants that you want
to go to? You because I'msure you don't want to be limited by,
you know, the fact that you'rein a wheelchair. So I've found
most restaurants pretty accessible. There's lotsof options of restaurants that don't have a
step to gain in or maybe justhave one step with me with the manual
(26:41):
chair. Again, it's very doableto do one step, so that's not
an issue for me. There aresome restaurants that maybe have two or three
steps. But at those restaurants,they've always been really nice and they're willing
to carry me in clear Patrick styleand I'm up for it. Now.
Not everybody's going to be upboard.And again, if you have a powered
(27:04):
wheelchair, then it might be tooheavy for them to be able to do
that, or more of a riskthat the wheelchair might break, so it
might not be feasible. But ifit's feasible and you're willing to do it,
people are always willing to help.That's so good to hear. All
Right, So, now, Amy, why don't we have a little bit
of a chat about, like howmost people will be going to the big
(27:27):
cities. Let's have a little bitof a chat about how we tackle some
of those big cities in a wheelchairand then maybe go into some of the
smaller places. Because I know you'vegot some very inspiring chips about Sienna cht
Love. So how about Rome.What can we expect in Rome? So
all of the city centers are generallygoing to have cobblestones, and yes,
(27:49):
it's going to be a bumpier ride. And if you're to me, I'm
used to it. I'm fine withit. To me, just kind of
like rolling through a park and treelimbs or whatever might be there. It's
not an issue for me. Forsome people it is an issue. One
thing I find that I prefer topush myself if somebody wants to help me
(28:11):
or tries to push me. Itseems like when people are pushing you,
they kind of pushed down. Sothere's more of a likelihood that the small
wheels are going to get stuck betweenthe cobblestones and then you might flip out
of the wheelchair. So when Inavigate the roads, I tend to just
look down and concentrate on the cobblestonesin front of me and make sure that
they're not too separated, or togo around the rougher spots and things like
(28:36):
that. And again I try tonot have people push me. Now,
if there's like some steps or anuphill, then I might ask someone to
help me up, and then againjust paying attention as to how I'm navigating.
If it's a downhill, it mightbe easier to go down backwards so
there's less of a likelihood of flippingout of the wheelchair. There's this thing
(29:00):
called a third wheel that it's awheel that you can stick at the front
of the wheelchair. A lot ofpeople like to use it. I used
it last year when I did theCamino de Santiago, and for that to
me, it worked very well becausewe were walking all day, versus I
can't imagine myself using that in Romeor Florence or some of these other cities
(29:23):
where I'm constantly going in and outof shops or in and out of museums
because it is bigger and bulkier,and it extends two to three feet on
the wheelchair, and so to me, it's not practical for that. But
I have seen people in the touristycities use it. I'm not sure if
(29:45):
they're removing it when they're going intoplaces, because it is fairly easy to
remove. And so that I willsay again, I like to roll around
everywhere. That way, I canexplore the streets and get lost in the
streets, which is one of thethings I love doing. And then that's
how I find some unique and yemmyrestaurants that aren't filled with tourists. And
(30:10):
so that's me. Some people preferto have a taxi because they can't go
long distances, or they might preferto have a driver. That way,
they can leave you right at thefront and pick you upright at the front,
and it limits the amount that you'rerolling around in some of the cobblestones
or be more complicated streets. Nowyou mentioned you stayed right in the heart
(30:34):
of Rome, which is our favoritebuilding, the Pantheon, and it roam
around that area is pretty flat too, right, So it's not and it's
not until you get up towards theColisseum it up to Monty and the Spanish
steps where you start getting into steepness. Correct, So Rome is fairly flat.
(30:56):
The area around the Vatican is flat, the area around the Pantheon is
But i'ven find as long as youdon't go up the Spanish steps, like
the area in front of it andaround it is flat as well. This
trip that I was there last monthwas the first one that I went exploring
the Monti neighborhood, and that wasdeeper, but it was still doable.
(31:18):
I was by myself and I wasable to push myself up and down the
hills by myself without any big issues. Granted I go a little bit slower
when I'm by myself than when Ihave help pushing up. But there was
also people that came across me thatwould ask me, you know, can
we help you? And this timeI, you know, I said no,
(31:40):
thank you, I'm good. Othertimes I have accepted help. It
just depends how tired I am.And I was going really so, because
I'm one of those people that stopsand takes pictures at every corner because I
see a cool plan or a coolwindow or whatever it might be. I'm
one of those people. Take howabout Testivity? Do you have you spend
much time there? Yes, I'vespent time there. It is fairly flat.
(32:02):
The cobblestones are i would say,rougher in that area, but it
is still doable again as long asyou go slow and steady. And I
found that the shops and the restaurantsin the area were accessible as well as
the church that's right there. Andit's beautiful church, isn't it. It's
(32:25):
absolutely stunning. Yes, So hementioned as well the Vatican, and I've
been there with a friend who hasa walking stick, and that were very
helpful to her. And there's alot of different ways you can get around
in the Vatican too, isn't thereThere is? And to get to the
Sixteam Chapel, there is an accessibleroute and one of the people from there
(32:51):
will escort you once you're ready togo and see the Susteem Chapel. The
thing that I would say is differentfrom my understanding is most people we'll get
out of the Sustine Chapel and there'sa route to get to Saint Peter's Basilica
through the inside. When you're ina wheelchair. You can't do that same
route. You have to exit themuseums and then come around the outside to
(33:12):
the front to get into Saint Peter's. But you do get a skip all
of the line, so that's nice. Yeah, well that is. It's
quite a long way around the backthere. It's not a short little trip,
so you definitely deserve to skip theline there. And then once here
inside of Saint Peter's Basilica, there'sa rooftop which a lot of people don't
(33:35):
know, and there's actually an accessibleroute elevator to get to the rooftop so
you could get the views up there, which are beautiful. They are really
stunning. I was there last yearon a very hot day, and yes,
you're right, it's got a it'squite a large elevator there to go
up onto the roof of Saint Peter's. It's a good, really good point.
The other big, obviously side thatpeople want to see in Rome is
(33:57):
a coliseum, and I know itdoes have an elevator the air. Yes,
it has an elevator. So whenpeople say it can't be made accessible
because it's old and we don't wantto ruin it, I'm like the Colosseum
has an elevator. If they wereable to manage to put one in the
Colosseum without ruining it, you're gonnaget one here. So yes, the
Colosseum is very accessible. It hasan elevator to go up and now I
(34:21):
was just reading the Now they openeda new elevator to go up to the
upper level. That just open likewithin this last week or two. Amazing.
So I'm gonna have to go backwhen I go in November. It's
always something new to say the Colosseum. I'll come back and report. We'll
need you to do that. Absolutely, yes, I mean things sounds like
Rime is pretty good to get around. And there's also have you been to
(34:44):
the Altada de la Patria there's Ithink there's there's a leaf to get up
on the roof there too. Idon't know if you've beat. Yes,
there's an elevator to get up andactually there's a fee, but if you're
in a wheelchair they don't charge youeither. Excellent, Yes, you can
get up there. There's also anelevator to go down into the four And
then I found the baths to bewhere the Roman baths are to be very
(35:07):
accessible too, because they've made platformso you're not really rolling over the gravel.
Everybody's walking on these platforms, soit's actually smoothing. Amazing. Is
that the Baths of Caracalla that one? Yes, yeah, I love that
site. It's one of my favoritesin rhyme. And then of course if
you're in the Coliseum Forum area,the Capitalize museums. I'm sure although getting
(35:32):
up that hill or is there aback entrance? That's one of my tricks,
kind of what I did in Sienna. I had a taxi take me
there and then I went into themuseums, and then when I left,
I can't just rolled down. Iwill say that one. It's quite steep,
so you want to be careful,and I rolled down backwards to make
(35:53):
it safer and not flip out.Oh yeah, good idea. I don't
know like I think I would findthat every tooth cooks. I don't like
anything speedy. So it sounds likegoing down backwoods is a very good cheap.
I would say it's good to havegloves on your hands so that you
(36:15):
don't mess up your hands. Ah. Another good cheap I mean in Florence
is your hometown, So is thatan easy place to get around and say
things? Florence is fairly flat tome. I find it very easy to
get around the Again, it's thecobblestones. A cobblestones in Florence are different
(36:37):
than the cobblestones in Rome, andso it's just kind of adjusting from one
to the other ones and one inRome are flatter and bigger, and so
it's kind of adjusting how you haveto roll around them. Again, you
have to look at the ground makesure that there's not any big gaps where
you might get stuck or flip outof your chair. One thing that I've
(36:59):
noticed that they've been doing Inflorence isthey've been doing a lot of street improvement.
So some of the streets, thecobblestones have been reset, so they're
much smoother than they used to be. And so that's something that's nice once
it anywhere in Italy, and Iwould say anywhere in the world. Which
(37:22):
makes people nervous is the sidewalks.Not all of them have curb cuts at
the end, or sometimes there's carsparked on the sidewalks, or sometimes they've
become very narrow so you can't getdown them is I like to roll on
the street a lot. It makespeople a lot really nervous. But to
(37:42):
me, you also have to bea conscience person. If you're going to
make the choice to roll on thestreet, then you need to be alert
for taxis and cars coming and alsounderstand that they had the right away,
so kind of screwed over and letthem go by. I mean, I
can tell that that's account pulated riskfor you because but it's fine because in
most of those center areas there's verysmall number of vehicles that are going down
(38:07):
there well. And sometimes there's likein Florence, one of the main roads,
it has huge buses that run byit, and so the road's already
narrow you have the buses, andif you're there, I usually like try
to squeeze in between two cars thatare park to get out of the bus's
way and not risk the bus makingit around me right here are so it's
(38:31):
barring, honestly, Like just fearless, just go I'm going down this street
like an Italian Ferrari driver. YesI'm right, don't let the bus stop.
Be amazing, and I mean it'sFlorence is doable as well. What
about in like the duomo. Canyou is there an elevator in the Dramo
to get into the Dromo in Florence, the entrance is actually around the side
(38:55):
in the back, and there's aramp to get it. So there's not
an elevator. There's a ramp toget in, and then you can go
inside of the duomo. There isnot an elevator to get up to the
actual dome part that you can goinside and visit the church. And most
of the big churches in Florence havesome type of accessible entrance with a ramp
(39:22):
on the side, like Santa Croce, Santa Marinovela, Santo Spirito. So
they're all accessible. Oh that's great, I mean, because you know,
if you want to go see someart, you roll yourself into the church.
I mean I do. Santa Croceis one of my favorites. It's
just it's got so many surprises aroundevery corner. There something that I think
everyone should go see. Yes,and then the Court York Museum on the
(39:45):
side that has an accessible entrance too. Oh, I'm picturing it now.
Yes, indeeda does. And solet's talk about a city that people might
find very disconcerting if they're in awheelchair that doesn't have a any traffic,
any car traffic. It's Venice andthis is the city of over four hundred
(40:06):
bridges. Now that sounds like achallenge. So I have been to Venice
and I did find it challenging.They do have a map that kind of
marks the accessible routes. I found. I'm really good with the maps,
and I found the map confusing.I'm the kid that love maps. Still
ofs maps had globes and everything alwaysgrowing up, but that map was very
(40:31):
confusing to me. One of thethings too, is it'll show you the
routes, but then some of themdepend on you getting on the v at
one point and then getting off ata different point to get from one I
guess you could call it from oneisland to the next island, and then
(40:51):
the map shows more the route withinthe island. It's accessible. Some of
the bridges are supposed to have orhave like these little elevators, but there's
keys to them. I could neverfigure out where to get the keys.
There are companies that do accessible toursof the island. I think if I
(41:14):
were ever to go back or decideto stay there, for the night.
I would hire one of those companiesto do a tour so that I could
kind of figure it out how itworks, and then you know, once
I see them do it, thenI'll know how to get around. Like
I said, I did find itchallenging. I've read that the best time
to go, which I've never doneit. I'll have to do it one
(41:37):
day and report back again, iswhen they do the marathon. So I
believe maybe a week or two beforethe Venice Marathon, and for a week
or two after they set up rampsfor the runners across all of the bridges.
So they start setting up the rampsI think a week or two before,
and then they remove them a weekor two after. That's what I've
(42:00):
read. I'm not sure what thetimeline. You'd probably want to confirm that
with locals before going. So itmakes the city much more accessible because there's
no stairs on the bridges, it'sall ramps. And the marathon used to
happen in November. I've checked itbefore we got on the call. This
year it's at the end of October, and it seems like last year was
(42:22):
the end of October, so youwould want to look ahead and then kind
of plan your trip around that.I would suggest that that's a great chip.
I guess. The other thing tonote, though, is that some
of those bridges are pretty steep,so you'd want to either get some help
maybe getting at them, and thenroll down backwards exactly so you don't topple
(42:45):
over. Yeah, excellent, Yeah, I think you know. Venice is
one of those places. Yeah,it sounds like it might be a good
idea to get some professional help.What can we expect about tours that catered
to people that are in wheelchairs?I've seen this A few companies pop up
lightly, And what's your impression.The only tour specially designed for wheelchairs that
(43:07):
I've done was in much will betupiddle everywhere else in the world. I've
just kind of gone in, lookedfor the tours, kind of try to
figure out what they do where theysee and then I write the tour company
or the tour guide or whoever's organizingthat particular tour, and I say,
(43:30):
I'm in a wheelchair, like Ican do one step, maybe even two
steps with some help, and youknow, like I can pop the chair
in the trunk, I can transferI give them as much information as possible,
and then they tell me, yes, we could do it, it's
accessible, or we'll figure it out, or we'll find help. And that's
(43:53):
always how I've booked it and I'vedone it so again when I do reviews
on trip Advisor to put you know, this tour was accessible, and I've
had really good luck and success withthat, you know, from doing food
tours, to wineries visits, tohiring private drivers, different things like that.
(44:15):
It's always worked for me. I'venever had an issue. And if
the companies not responsive or they respondright away like oh, we don't do
tours for people in wheelchairs, orif they have it on their website like
no wheelchairs or no strollers, andI don't even bother approaching them because if
(44:36):
they don't want my business, Idon't want to give them my money.
Sounds reasonable to me, Yeah,I guess it's really interesting that people have
seen maybe an opportunity to cater specificallytowards people that are in wheelchairs. And
I've had some feedback from people thatare written into me that some of them
they haven't been on them, butthey seem quite expensive, but I can't
make it comment. Do you haveany impression about that. I've seen tours
(45:00):
at cater for people in wilchairs,but it's more like a complete trip planning,
and I think they do tend tobe very expensive, like double or
triple for what I could plan iton my own. And they also seem
to be more limited into the thingsthat they do or where they go,
(45:22):
like a lot of them. I'llgive you an example that's not like a
group tour for weltchairs, but whenyou're on a cruise, generally most of
the tours are not accessible. Ifthere's a tour that they call its accessible,
basically they have you sitting on abus or a van all day and
you just drive around, and yousee, it's not really getting up and
(45:43):
down and out and actually seeing andexploring the sites. All right, So
I mean, what I'm hearing fromyou, I mean is that if you
have a little bit of creativity anda little bit of flexibility, that you
can really tackle these stuff on yourown. How about some of the smaller
places. You mentioned Sienna, andyou really blew my mind when you told
(46:04):
me about that, so I'd loveyou at least it is to hear what
you did in Sienna. So Siennais a very very steep city. We
went as a day trip from Florence. Took the train, got to the
train station. At the train station, I got a taxi, had him
take me all the way up tothe cathedral in Sienna, and is it
(46:25):
a cathedral? And see is itconsidered a cathedral or I can't? Okay,
So I had the taxi take meup to the cathedral in Sienna.
Once I was up there, whenin saw it it is accessible, so
it is a museum across from thecathedral. And then I just started going
down the city because that's basically atthe top of the city, and so
(46:47):
it was just easy to roll down. Now, some of the streets or
sections where I was rolling down werevery steep, and again there's cobblestone,
so you have to be careful,but it is is doable. There was
a few where I went down andthen maybe I had to go back up,
but it was much easier than havingstarted at the bottom and having to
(47:12):
push all the way up. Imight have had, you know, two
or three hills of versus one hundred. I mean, I reckon you easily
deserve three or four gelato a dayjust by yourself. Around there's a lot
of muscle work happening there, I'msure amazing, say, and then with
San Giminiano it's steep, so oneas you get into the town, you
(47:36):
go up and then on the otherend you're gonna go down. And so
if you have enough upper body strengththen I did it up and down by
myself this last time I was therelast month. But it's also if you
have somebody with you that can helpyou push, it's very doable. And
(47:57):
then most of the shops have nosteps or on stuff to get in,
so if you wanted to go inand explore, you can. And if
you went with someone and they weredriving, are you able to use like
a disabled sticka like they have insome parts of the world like here in
Australia if you so. My dad, for example, he's got limited mobility,
(48:19):
so he has a sticka that hecan access certain car spaces. Is
that possible initially? You know?I don't know. I know that Italy
has placards that they issue for peopleto be able to use the handicap parking.
Every time I say I'm going totake my US one and see if
they'll allow me to use it,and every time I forget, since I
(48:42):
don't use a car much over there. But that's one of the things that
I've been trying to figure out,if they would allow me to use my
US one there or if somebody's comingfrom another country, if they would allow
you to use your placard from thatcountry. I don't know the answer to
that. You can report back onthat one too, Yes, I will
report back on that. Fantastic,you know. And then the other one
(49:05):
place that I was thinking of thatwould be like, I don't even know
where you'd stop, but I doknow that you amy would have a solution.
It would be the Amalfi Coast anda place in places like Positano.
Have you ever attempted that? So? Yes, So what we did it
was actually my first trip to Italy. It was part of a crew stop.
We hired a driver to take usthe Maufi Coast. We stopped and
(49:29):
Sorrento. I was able to rollthrough Sorrento, that was not a problem,
and then we went to Positano.That is going to be more challenging
because it is very steep and it'sall these stairs. There was a section
of street where the driver left usand I was able to explore some shops,
(49:51):
so it is doable for a visit. I would probably not stay there
unless the hotel's right off the mainroad, and then I know for sure
at the hotels accessible, because thenI know I'm also going to be probably
more confined to that hotel than justlike a few shops and restaurants. We
went from there to the town ofa Malfi, and then that had some
(50:13):
areas and shops which were accessible.Again, it's doable for a few hours.
I probably wouldn't stay there overnight.And then I've stayed in Naples.
Naples is very accessible, and thentook the ferry to Capity. The ferry
is accessible, and then once inCopity, I was able to do a
(50:36):
boat tour to go around the islandand see the Blue Grotto. The boat
was not per se accessible, butI was able to jump out from my
chair and get into the boat andthey helped me, and then they left
my wheelchair in a shop, andthen once we got back, they helped
me get again out of the boatand into my chair and my chair was
waiting for me. Oh that's amazing. I'm psychology had experience is one of
(51:00):
my favorites. In the world.And then the funicular up to the island
from where the fairy leaves you isaccessible, so you can go open to
the island and explore it. Andthe same thing for autoviet Or the finicular
is accessible, so you could goto Autovieto by train, take the finecular
(51:20):
up and then explore the city.Another one of my favorite places in Italy
where it's a beautiful town. Ohthat's so cool, Amy, You are
amazing and I just love that youjust don't let anything stop you and you
found ways. I think it's reallyinspiring. Just you know, we have
a big Facebook group of travelers andwe hear a lot of petty grievances on
(51:44):
that every day, but I reallyfeel like that anything can be overcome with
a positive attitude and just a bitof creativity. Thank you so much for
sharing your insight and experience traveling Isially. I know many many people will have
found this discussion extremely helpful. Ifour listeners had any questions, would you
be happy for them to reach outto you. Yes, they can reach
(52:07):
out to me through my Instagram accountwhich is Whirling the World, and just
send me a DM through there andI will be happy to help them in
any way I can. And Ithink it sounds like you've got a really
good process of reviewing places on tripAdvisor. Do you do that regularly?
I used to be much better,added, I'm like two years behind on
(52:29):
my reviews. I need to goback and finish reviewing everything that I've done
these last two years. I knowwe had a bit of a pause there,
didn't we let's not mention the pause. Yeah, but it's it's probably
worth going back and have and begreat to hear your reviews. I was
actually one of the few people thatwas traveling throughout the pandemic. It was
kind of nice because nowhere was crowded. I know you've hap to give up
(52:53):
your quiet Florence. Now it's ashame. Oh grade, Amy. Thank
you so much for sharing all yourdeep insight and for joining us and Untold
Italy today. It's been truly inspirationalto hear how you travel through Italy with
such a positive attitude and with youreyes wide open and just enjoying every last
(53:14):
minute. I love it. Thankyou, Amy, It's been a pleasure.
You know what. I think,Amy is amazing, But I also
think it shouldn't require so much effortin terms of planning, thinking, cost,
and physical exertion on her part tohave the experiences that so many of
us take for granted. There area lot of news reports these days about
(53:37):
the crowds and heat in Italy,and I stopped to wonder how Amy would
manage it, probably with a bigsmile on her face and no complaints,
which is more that can be saidfor some of us who have fewer challenges.
Unfortunately, I think it's going totake a much bigger effort on the
part of able bodied people as acollective to make things much easier for people
who are traveling with a disability tohave an easier time. But in the
(54:00):
meantime, let's take a leaf outof the Italian attitude and offer to help
individuals where we can, just tomake people's lives that much easier. It
doesn't take much, does it.Now. If you're keen to learn more
about accessible travel in Italy or areinspired to pack your bags now you've heard
these on the ground ideas for gettingaround and enjoying yourself when you get there.
(54:22):
We put all the tips, ideasand links Amy shared, as well
as her social media links into theshow notes on our website at Untold Italy
dot com. Forward slash one eightythree for episode number one hundred and eighty
three. GRATSIMIREI, thank you somuch for your ongoing support of Untold Italy.
We truly appreciate all of you,our listeners, joining us from all
(54:43):
around the world, and we wouldlove it if you help spread the words
so we can reach more Italy lovingtravelers just like you. The best way
that you can do this is byleaving us a five star rating or review
on your favorite podcast app or forwardingthis episode onto a friend who also loves
colorful towns, delightful local customs,and the magic of regional Italy. That's
(55:05):
all for today. Next week,DANIELLEA, Terry and I will be chatting
about the summer season so far inItaly and takeaways for those of you who
are traveling soon or thinking about asummer trip to Italy next year or in
future years to come. But untilthen, it's chow for now. The
Untold Italy podcast is an independent productionpodcast editing, audio production and website development
(55:29):
by Mark Hatter, Production assistance andcontent writing by the Other KD Clark.
Yes, there are two of usFor more information about untold Italy, please
visit untold Italy dot com
This is the Untold Italy Travel Podcastand you are listening to episode number one
hundred and eighty three. Chatti andben Venuti to U Told Italy the travel
podcast to where you go to thetownsend villages, mountains, the lakes,
(00:21):
hills and coast lines of Bella,Italia. Each week, your host Katie
Clark takes you on a journey ina search of magical landscapes, history,
culture, wine, zelato, andof course a whole lot of pasta.
If you're dreaming of Italy and planningfuture adventures there, you've come to the
right place. Jaw Ben Venuti.Friends. On this episode, I'm talking
(00:55):
about a topic that I think isvery important, and to be honest,
it's taken quite a while to findjust the right person who I could chat
about it with. But I amdelighted to say that I have found exactly
the right person, and today we'rechatting about wheelchair accessible and general accessibility issues
when traveling in Italy. Now,if you've spent any time in our favorite
(01:17):
country, then you may have wonderedwhat it would be like to get around
if you weren't fully mobile in aplace where many of us do. Over
twenty thousand steps a day. Whatis the experience for people who get around
in a wheelchair or who have limitedmobility. To be honest, the thought
of it is quite daunting to me. But then enrolled my new friend Amy
(01:38):
Maldonado, who is an absolute inspirationand is here today to share her amazing
tips for getting around and having afabulous time in Italy in a wheelchair.
Amy is based in the United States, but she also has an apartment in
Florence, so she's truly living thedream in that respect and spend lots of
her time initially exploring on her ownin her emmanual wheelchair. Now, even
(02:02):
if you're not concerned with mobility,this is a truly inspiring, an eye
opening discussion about what is possible withincredible determination and tenacity. Amy's got so
many tips and bits of useful advicefor you, So let's dive right in.
Ben Venuta, Amy Chow and welcometo the Untold Italy podcast. Thank
(02:23):
you for having me today. SoI'm actually so thrilled to have you joined
us, Amy, as we hada bit of a chat last week and
this conversation is well well over you. I'm so thrilled to have found you.
But before we dive into our chatabout accessible travel in Italy, can
you share a little bit about yourstory, your background, and how you
(02:44):
came to fall in love with andspend so much time in Italy. Yes,
I was born in the US.My parents are from Mexico, but
I completely fell in love with Italy. I went the first time by accident,
and then I never stopped going back. I loved It's so much that
now I've boughten an apartment in Florenceand I go as often as possible.
(03:07):
I am a full time wheelchair user, so that surprises people sometimes as to
how I get around, but Iactually find it fairly accessible, and I
tell everybody the three most inaccessible citiesI've been to are actually in the US,
and they're DC, in New Yorkand Boston. It's amazing, isn't
it. You know, we havethese assumptions about what works and what doesn't
(03:30):
and how you can manage in differentenvironments. But I think, you know,
the best way to resolve some ofthese assumptions is to actually dive in
and have a chat about what actuallyworks and doesn't work when you're in a
wheelchair. So Amy, but beforewe get onto that. Can you just
tell me what's the most favorite thingthat you love about Italy? What is
(03:51):
it what makes your heart seeing It'sthe people, it's the culture. To
me, when I'm there, Ifeel at home. I tell people,
if there's such thing as past as, I think I must have lived there.
I totally understand that feeling absolutely allright. Yeah, I just it's
one of those places that if youfeel at home, you know, and
(04:12):
I think a lot of the listenersthat are listening today have that feeling too.
When I'm there, I feel atpeace, I feel calm, I'm
stress free. I love it.And it's so funny because a lot of
people think, you know, Italyis like hugely chaotic plays, but it's
been going on like that for avery long time, and they've got their
way of doing things, and aslong as you know how to kind of
(04:33):
navigate those with the cultural aspects andall of those things, and I do
feel like you can fit right invery easily. Okay, so Amy,
I think you know, most ablebodied people will probably take some of these
things for granted, but we thoughtwe would help everyone have an understanding of
what are some of the challenges wheelchairusers face when they're traveling in Italy because
(04:59):
you know, even in the shortchat I had with Amy before, we
open my eyes to so many things. So I mean, let's just have
a go at some things that mightbe challenging about hotel stays in need to
ly First of all, I thinkwe have to have a very open mind
as to what accessibility is because everybody'sversion of accessibilities different and everybody's needs are
different, so it's going to varyfrom person to person. I try to
(05:25):
be as open as possible, andwhat works for me might not work for
somebody else. I start off with. My wheelchair is emmanual wheelchair. It's
fairly light and it's fairly narrow,so I can fit in through a lot
of doors. It might not bevery wide that other wheelchair users might not
be able to fit in through.So to start off hotels, you always
(05:49):
want to check for accessibility, butdon't just go based on what it says.
You have to ask the right questions. The hotel might say that it
has an elevator, so then youmake the assumption that it's ulture accessible.
Well in Italy and any places inEurope, there might be two or three
steps to get to the elevator,So it does you know good that there's
(06:13):
an elevator if there are steps withouta ramp, or there might be an
elevator outside, but to get intothe hotel there might be two or three
steps. So one of the thingsI do is try to look for pictures
of the hotel where I could seekind of what the entrance looks like,
if it's at street level, ifnot, if there's a ramp, or
(06:34):
if there might be a side entrancewhere there might be a ramp, and
then just ask. There's a hotelthat I really like in Rome, and
if you look at it from theoutside, there's three steps to get in,
but they have a ramp that theybring out in it's not a problem
staying there and I love it.Oh what's the name of that hotel?
The al it's right in front ofthe Pantheon. Oh, yes, I
(06:56):
love that hotel. Wow. Youwouldn't think necessarily that were a hotel in
that location would be accessible to wheelchairusers. But that's great to know.
I'm really happy to hear that.Yes. And then one thing that I
found in Italy in particular that's veryinteresting. Sometimes when it's a wheelchair accessible
room, it ends up having tworestrooms inside, so that makes it really
(07:17):
nice. When you go with somebodyelse and two people are trying to get
ready at the same time, youhave two complete restrooms. You probably don't
get too many bonuses like that,so you're going to take them when you
can. That sounds good. Ilike having my own bathroom. It's happened
to me at four different hotels inItaly, and I think it's the most
interesting thing. So what are someother things that you need to think about
at hotels? Because I can imagine, like I'm just thinking about a hotel
(07:41):
that I stay at sometimes near there, which is Alberga Desole, and it's
got steps to get down into themain breakfast area. And some hotels well,
and then at that point there's somethat have ramps that they'll bring out,
and then there's some that are willingto accommodate you. They'll say,
well, we'll take your breakfast toyour room, or we could set it
(08:03):
up in this other part of thehotel. So then that depends on you
whether you're comfortable with that. Iam very flexible with that, so to
me, that would work for manypeople. They feel like they want to
be with everyone else, and that'sunderstandable too. Yeah, yeah, I
do understand it. And some ofthese hotels are quite small, so I'd
like even just thinking about that hotel, even if you were to get down
(08:26):
into that area and in the buffet, it would be actually quite hard to
maneuver around. I think so.But I'm sure at that hotel, which
I do love, is that thatwould the staff would go and help you
and bring something to you. Andthat's one thing that I found in early
and most of the hotels the breakfastto set up the face style, and
other employees are always willing to helpin a like what do you want,
(08:48):
I'll go serve you, and I'mlike, oh, don't worry about it.
I can serve myself. But they'realways willing to accommodate and help.
And sometimes I do accept the helpbecause it's just very busy and I don't
want to be in the way ordrop anything. So I just every time
I do it differently depending on thissituation. It sounds like you have to
just be generally very flexible when youare traveling any life, which you know.
(09:11):
I think it's a good reminder forthose of us that have daily high
expectations that flexibility is the key.Yes. And then also it helps to
know the measurements of your wheelchair,both the width and the depth of it.
The reason you want to know thatis because you want to know if
(09:31):
the elevator doors are going to bewide enough if there's an elevator. Usually
the room doors are not an issue, but in most places around the world,
what I found is that the doorsto go into the restroom tend to
be narrower than the doors to gointo the bedroom, so an issue might
arise there. And do you justemail the hotels and ask them again?
(09:54):
I normally start off by looking atpictures, and I've got them pretty good
of being able to tell if thedoor looks fairly wide or not. And
if I don't see any pictures ofwhat I need, And I also google
to see if there's any reviews fromanybody that stayed in a ultair. When
I do reviews, I try toput in there. But I'm a wheelchair
user, so people kind of havean idea. But if not, then
(10:16):
I will email the hotel and thenask them these questions. Would you be
using the standard booking sites to findthose reviews or is there something that's specifically
dedicated to wheelchair users that you canaccess. There are new services now that
have started trying to cater to ultairusers. I have not used them,
(10:37):
so I don't know how reliable orhow big of an inventory or selection they
have. I normally just check ontrip Advisor, but also just do a
general Google search. Good to nightand I think you know if you book
on booking dot com they do haveaccessible like well, you can eliminate things,
shall we say, and so younarrow things down rather than my make
(11:00):
the final selection using them. They'vegot quite a few good filters there.
But I mean you can immediately seeif it doesn't have an elevator, so
they can be eliminated from your search. There's a lot of things to think
about, isn't there exactly? Andagain just because it says wheelchair accessible,
sometimes they mark that it might notnecessarily be accessible. So you want to
(11:22):
double check all of those things.Yeah, I mean, remember when we
were talking last week, you mentionedI asked you why don't you use an
electric wheelchair? And you had areally good response, So electric wheelchairs.
I am fortunate enough that I canuse a manual one. Some people are
down to an electric one and sothey don't have the choice. But if
(11:43):
you have the choice, I woulduse a manual one because it's easier,
it's going to give you more flexibility, it's later, and it's going to
open up more accessibility because the manualones tend to be smaller and more compact,
and you can collapse them as well. Right, Yes, So that's
another thing. If I want toget around the city, normally I just
(12:07):
roll around everywhere, and smaller citieslike Florence in Rome, usually I just
stay in the center and can rollaround anywhere. But if I'm ever going
to take a taxi, then Ican take any taxi. I don't have
to wait for an accessible one,which might be harder to find and might
being on existent and smaller cities.So I just can transfer from my chair
(12:28):
into the taxi and then the chaircan be placed in the chunk or the
back seat, whatever's most convenient atthat point. M Now, Italian taxi
drivers have not maybe the best reputation, but if they've always been helpful towards
you, I've never had an issuewith any of them. They've all always
been very kind they're always, youknow, willing to put the chair.
(12:50):
I do a lot of traveling bymyself, so if I'm by myself,
I just jump in the taxi.They take care of putting the chair in
the back. It's no matter ofme telling them how to collapse it and
how to take the wheels off orwhatever needs to be done. I think
it's worth mentioning that you also,your Italian is very good. Sorry,
(13:11):
I mean he's studying. I thinkyou do two lessons. Await, right,
yes I do. I guess thathelps. I will say that when
I arrive whatever city I'm arriving too, and that's just across the world,
I like to have a private driverto pick me up and take me to
the hotel or wherever I'm staying,because when I get there, there's more
(13:33):
suitcases, so it might be harderto fit the wheelchair and the suitcases,
especially if I'm traveling with other people. Also, there might be strikes,
and so I have my driver guaranteedand I don't have to stand in a
taxi line after a really long flight. Yeah, that's a great tip.
I think it's good for everyone really, but especially you don't want to be
(13:54):
navigating taxis and big long queues withluggage because you know when I mean,
and I would before I really hada light to a moment, well how
do you actually move around with yourluggage? And I was kind of all
of these realizations were coming to me, and I was kind of a bit
disappointed in myself that I hadn't reallythought about it before. But I can
imagine, like just trying to navigatean airport with your luggage. It's a
(14:18):
bit of a challenge too. Itravel a lot, so I have practice
just kind of rolling it by myside or pushing it in front of me,
but not everybody can do that.In one thing, I found that
in Italy in particular, they're verynice at the airport, and they helped
me from the time that they helpedme get on and off the airplane all
(14:39):
the way to getting my suitcases,getting it off the you know, the
conveyor bill, and then bringing thesuitcase with me all the way to the
taxi. Versus here in the US, they helped me get off the plane
and then I'm kind of on myown. Oh, it's interesting. Can
(15:00):
you do some of the airlines betterthan others? And it is? It?
Maybe the airline staff and you couldpre order that or is it typically
just the ground staff the people thatget you on and up the plane.
Those are run by the airport,So it's the ground staff and it has
nothing to do with the airline.I know my parents are traveling later this
year and they're traveling on Emirates andthey do have services that you can pre
(15:24):
order. But I think it,Yeah, it sounds like the ground staff
in Rome pretty excellent. When you'retraveling by air, you do have to
let the airline know ahead of timethat you're going to need wheelchair assistance because
they're the ones that book can communicatewith the ground staff from the airport so
that all of that's coordinated and theycan get you on the plane. Well,
(15:46):
I'm scoot to know that you getsuch a great welcome when you get
to easily. No, Wendy,you love it so much, just like,
oh I can help, people arehelping me fantastic. In Florence,
I already know all the ground staffby namely straight into Florence generally that's where
I fly into. Okay, Well, I mean that's where your apartment is,
(16:07):
so I guess that's that's the bestplace to go. Now, what
about trains, Amy, Like Ican imagine you know a lot of people
find the prospect of getting on thetrains and navigating the stations very difficult,
even if they're not in a wheelchair. How do you manage the trains?
So the trains are also very easyto use, it's just a matter of
(16:33):
organization. The first thing you haveto do is what I typically do,
is I look at the train scheduleand kind of see what train I might
want to take. I try totake the fast train versus the regional trains
because they're just going to be moreefficient and less stops. So once I
kind of figure out the schedule thatI want to take, then I send
(16:55):
an email to the Sala Blue thatpart of every train station, and you
can find their email online and youcan also email the one in Rome and
then they'll direct you to wherever youneed it forward your email. If you're
going to go somewhere else, youneed to contact them at least twenty four
(17:17):
hours before your train departs or thetrain you want to take, because then
they have to coordinate the service.So the first thing they have to do
is make sure that the wheelchair accessiblepost is available because there's just a limited
amount of them, so that theyneed to make sure there's not someone else
that's already booked it, and aslong as it's free, then they'll reserve
(17:38):
it. If not, they'll tellyou, well, that's not available.
This is like the next closest trainto that time. And they'll ask you
generally if you have a Blue Card, which I don't because I live in
the US, and I just explainthat. And they will also ask you
if you're traveling by yourself or withsomeone else. So if you're traveling with
(18:00):
a companion, they can reserve likeyou and one person with you together,
so that you have an assistant orjust a companion with you. If it's
say three people traveling, then theywon't reserve for the third person. The
third person has to make their owntravel arrangements. Once I get that email
(18:22):
confirmation, then I have to goto the train station and buy the ticket.
So unfortunately, up to now youcannot pay and buy the ticket online,
but you have your reservation secure.So that's something I just figured out
this year. Before I used togo to the train station the day before
and buy the ticket. Now Ijust get to the train station early the
(18:45):
day I'm departing and buy the ticketand then go to my meeting point.
They usually asked me to be atthe train station about forty five minutes before
the train departs. The meeting pointchanges every time, even with them,
even within realm, so you haveto read those instructions as to where they
tell you to meet. Generally theydo not speak English at the Sala Blu,
(19:07):
but you can use Google Translate tosend that email and usually you can
figure it out. So it soundslike it might be worth while getting some
of those phrases and organizing them beforeyour trip if you're heading off, so
you've got them ready to go.Yes, And what I do now is
(19:30):
like I have a email template thatI just use every time. So I
just look at the email that Isent the time before, and then I
just change the dates, the timesand the train number. Very clever,
very clever. And so La SalaBlue is the organization that helps people in
wheelchairs in Italy? Is that oris it just related to the train station
(19:52):
or just related to the train station. So it's with the Italia. Oh,
that's a good point. So it'snot with ITAO, it's just with
train Italia I've never used. Frommy understanding, they have their own service
system that you have to go through. Okay, all right, I can
understand why you just choose one instigbecause you don't need to be learning anything
else. And they're also the onesthat have the largest train schedule, so
(20:15):
it's just easy. Yeah. Sure. And the spot on the train is
that comfortable? Is that in anice place or do they popply need the
bathroom? So usually I would Ithink it's usually carriage three and so it's
in I guess what you would callthe business section, so it's a little
bit nicer. There is an accessiblerestroom. So one tip I would say
(20:40):
is use the restroom on the trainversus at the train station, because it's
easier to find an accessible restroom onthe train than a lot of times at
the train station. And then it'syour choice. I usually transfer from my
wheelchair into the seat the train stationseat, but you can stay in your
wheelchair. They have it set upboth ways, and the people from the
(21:04):
train station from the Sala Blue,they'll help you with your luggage as well,
get it in and out of thetrain with your suitcases, and then
walk you again to the taxi ifyou need. That's good to know that
you get some help. I thinkit would be quite daunting to kind of
try and manage that on your own. But I guess it's definitely about how
(21:25):
to access that. And what I'lldo is I will grab the email address
of the Sala Blue and put itin the show notes so people can go
directly there if they want to.Right, you mentioned bathrooms, Amy,
and I think that's going to beone of the biggest things that you would
be very daunting going to another country. And Italy again is not very well
(21:48):
renowned for having great bathrooms and accessiblebathrooms, even the able bodied people.
So how do you go in yourwheelchair if you want to use the bathrooms?
Where do you go? So,again that's going to be something of
perspective. Is it a bathroom that'saccessible, that has grab bars, it's
(22:10):
special for wheelchair users? Yes,there are some. And one thing that
I really like in Italy when theydo have vulture accessible restrooms, they are
very respected versus in the US andin a lot of other countries. Everybody
wants to use the wheelchair restroom becauseit's bigger and it's more comfortable. At
airports, but in Italy no,it's separate. It's usually kept locked,
(22:32):
and even when it's not locked,people respected and don't use it unless they
are in a wheelchair or have sometype of special need as to why they
have to use it. Now,there aren't those restrooms everywhere, but usually
you can find them at museums.And one thing in general, museums are
(22:53):
usually free for wheelchair users in Italy, and so if it's an emergency and
you need to go to the restroom, sometimes you can just run into the
museum because they're not going to chargeyou. They let you skip the line,
go in and out, use therestroom and you solve your problem.
They're also at the big shopping centersthey will have multure accessible restrooms, and
(23:18):
I've found that a lot of therestaurants now have vulture accessible restrooms. There's
even a restaurant in Rome where therestroom is downstairs, but they have an
elevator that you could use to getdown to it, which I think is
amazing. And then in a lotof cities maybe the restrooms are downstairs,
(23:41):
but they will have the wiltsair accessiblerestroom and some part of the restaurant that's
upstairs and you just have to ask. Now, not everywhere has them,
and that's not the case everywhere,but always ask. Just because it seems
like they're not accessible or there's notone, doesn't mean there's not one hit
in somewhere. Should we give ashout out to the restaurant in Rome because
(24:03):
I think they deserve one. Yes, it's close to the Vatican, close
to the Vatican. With a namelike that, you'd expect. Yeah,
I mean, I think Italy hasa reputation of being difficult in a lot
of these type of things. Butit's really great to hear your perspective on
that and where to find places thatwill actually be helpful and you know,
(24:30):
provide the experience that you want tohave because you know you deserve it.
Absolutely you want to have the same, if not better experience than everyone else.
Have you been to the Rene,you know, because they have a
lot of rooftop areas. I'm wonderingif you're able to access those. I've
gone to the Reader in Florence andthey do have the rooftop and it is
(24:52):
wilchair accessible, so there is anelevator to get all the way to the
top. It is a very smallelevator and my wil or fits in perfectly,
and so one that's a little bitwider might not make it all the
way up, okay, because Ithink that's I mean it's I was thinking
when you were talking that it's adepartment store, so they would maybe have
(25:12):
some of those facilities that you mightnot expect everywhere else. And I know
there's one in Milana. I'm notsure about the accessibility of their rooftop,
but it's if you can get upthere, it's really worthwhile because it's a
beautiful view of the dorm or upthere. Yes, and like the coin
stores, they're modern. They haverestrooms inside. They also the Vatican has
(25:34):
accessible restrooms, so it's just amatter of asking. Like I said,
you never know. And also whenyou find one, go even if you
don't want to go. I knowit sounds like a little thing, but
I'm sure you might. You mightregret it later on if you don't.
When we went with my grandmother,that's what we would tell or, Okay,
(25:57):
there's a restroom here, do youwant to go? And she would
say no, and then half ablock later she wanted to go, Well,
there's not one here. Now youhave to wait. And what about
restaurants because you know, like Iguess a lot of people's favorite restaurants.
You think about them and there's likea few steps to get down, and
you know, you mentioned this onein near the Vatican that sounds amazing with
(26:18):
this leaf, But how do youmanage getting into the restaurants that you want
to go to? You because I'msure you don't want to be limited by,
you know, the fact that you'rein a wheelchair. So I've found
most restaurants pretty accessible. There's lotsof options of restaurants that don't have a
step to gain in or maybe justhave one step with me with the manual
(26:41):
chair. Again, it's very doableto do one step, so that's not
an issue for me. There aresome restaurants that maybe have two or three
steps. But at those restaurants,they've always been really nice and they're willing
to carry me in clear Patrick styleand I'm up for it. Now.
Not everybody's going to be upboard.And again, if you have a powered
(27:04):
wheelchair, then it might be tooheavy for them to be able to do
that, or more of a riskthat the wheelchair might break, so it
might not be feasible. But ifit's feasible and you're willing to do it,
people are always willing to help.That's so good to hear. All
Right, So, now, Amy, why don't we have a little bit
of a chat about, like howmost people will be going to the big
(27:27):
cities. Let's have a little bitof a chat about how we tackle some
of those big cities in a wheelchairand then maybe go into some of the
smaller places. Because I know you'vegot some very inspiring chips about Sienna cht
Love. So how about Rome.What can we expect in Rome? So
all of the city centers are generallygoing to have cobblestones, and yes,
(27:49):
it's going to be a bumpier ride. And if you're to me, I'm
used to it. I'm fine withit. To me, just kind of
like rolling through a park and treelimbs or whatever might be there. It's
not an issue for me. Forsome people it is an issue. One
thing I find that I prefer topush myself if somebody wants to help me
(28:11):
or tries to push me. Itseems like when people are pushing you,
they kind of pushed down. Sothere's more of a likelihood that the small
wheels are going to get stuck betweenthe cobblestones and then you might flip out
of the wheelchair. So when Inavigate the roads, I tend to just
look down and concentrate on the cobblestonesin front of me and make sure that
they're not too separated, or togo around the rougher spots and things like
(28:36):
that. And again I try tonot have people push me. Now,
if there's like some steps or anuphill, then I might ask someone to
help me up, and then againjust paying attention as to how I'm navigating.
If it's a downhill, it mightbe easier to go down backwards so
there's less of a likelihood of flippingout of the wheelchair. There's this thing
(29:00):
called a third wheel that it's awheel that you can stick at the front
of the wheelchair. A lot ofpeople like to use it. I used
it last year when I did theCamino de Santiago, and for that to
me, it worked very well becausewe were walking all day, versus I
can't imagine myself using that in Romeor Florence or some of these other cities
(29:23):
where I'm constantly going in and outof shops or in and out of museums
because it is bigger and bulkier,and it extends two to three feet on
the wheelchair, and so to me, it's not practical for that. But
I have seen people in the touristycities use it. I'm not sure if
(29:45):
they're removing it when they're going intoplaces, because it is fairly easy to
remove. And so that I willsay again, I like to roll around
everywhere. That way, I canexplore the streets and get lost in the
streets, which is one of thethings I love doing. And then that's
how I find some unique and yemmyrestaurants that aren't filled with tourists. And
(30:10):
so that's me. Some people preferto have a taxi because they can't go
long distances, or they might preferto have a driver. That way,
they can leave you right at thefront and pick you upright at the front,
and it limits the amount that you'rerolling around in some of the cobblestones
or be more complicated streets. Nowyou mentioned you stayed right in the heart
(30:34):
of Rome, which is our favoritebuilding, the Pantheon, and it roam
around that area is pretty flat too, right, So it's not and it's
not until you get up towards theColisseum it up to Monty and the Spanish
steps where you start getting into steepness. Correct, So Rome is fairly flat.
(30:56):
The area around the Vatican is flat, the area around the Pantheon is
But i'ven find as long as youdon't go up the Spanish steps, like
the area in front of it andaround it is flat as well. This
trip that I was there last monthwas the first one that I went exploring
the Monti neighborhood, and that wasdeeper, but it was still doable.
(31:18):
I was by myself and I wasable to push myself up and down the
hills by myself without any big issues. Granted I go a little bit slower
when I'm by myself than when Ihave help pushing up. But there was
also people that came across me thatwould ask me, you know, can
we help you? And this timeI, you know, I said no,
(31:40):
thank you, I'm good. Othertimes I have accepted help. It
just depends how tired I am.And I was going really so, because
I'm one of those people that stopsand takes pictures at every corner because I
see a cool plan or a coolwindow or whatever it might be. I'm
one of those people. Take howabout Testivity? Do you have you spend
much time there? Yes, I'vespent time there. It is fairly flat.
(32:02):
The cobblestones are i would say,rougher in that area, but it
is still doable again as long asyou go slow and steady. And I
found that the shops and the restaurantsin the area were accessible as well as
the church that's right there. Andit's beautiful church, isn't it. It's
(32:25):
absolutely stunning. Yes, So hementioned as well the Vatican, and I've
been there with a friend who hasa walking stick, and that were very
helpful to her. And there's alot of different ways you can get around
in the Vatican too, isn't thereThere is? And to get to the
Sixteam Chapel, there is an accessibleroute and one of the people from there
(32:51):
will escort you once you're ready togo and see the Susteem Chapel. The
thing that I would say is differentfrom my understanding is most people we'll get
out of the Sustine Chapel and there'sa route to get to Saint Peter's Basilica
through the inside. When you're ina wheelchair. You can't do that same
route. You have to exit themuseums and then come around the outside to
(33:12):
the front to get into Saint Peter's. But you do get a skip all
of the line, so that's nice. Yeah, well that is. It's
quite a long way around the backthere. It's not a short little trip,
so you definitely deserve to skip theline there. And then once here
inside of Saint Peter's Basilica, there'sa rooftop which a lot of people don't
(33:35):
know, and there's actually an accessibleroute elevator to get to the rooftop so
you could get the views up there, which are beautiful. They are really
stunning. I was there last yearon a very hot day, and yes,
you're right, it's got a it'squite a large elevator there to go
up onto the roof of Saint Peter's. It's a good, really good point.
The other big, obviously side thatpeople want to see in Rome is
(33:57):
a coliseum, and I know itdoes have an elevator the air. Yes,
it has an elevator. So whenpeople say it can't be made accessible
because it's old and we don't wantto ruin it, I'm like the Colosseum
has an elevator. If they wereable to manage to put one in the
Colosseum without ruining it, you're gonnaget one here. So yes, the
Colosseum is very accessible. It hasan elevator to go up and now I
(34:21):
was just reading the Now they openeda new elevator to go up to the
upper level. That just open likewithin this last week or two. Amazing.
So I'm gonna have to go backwhen I go in November. It's
always something new to say the Colosseum. I'll come back and report. We'll
need you to do that. Absolutely, yes, I mean things sounds like
Rime is pretty good to get around. And there's also have you been to
(34:44):
the Altada de la Patria there's Ithink there's there's a leaf to get up
on the roof there too. Idon't know if you've beat. Yes,
there's an elevator to get up andactually there's a fee, but if you're
in a wheelchair they don't charge youeither. Excellent, Yes, you can
get up there. There's also anelevator to go down into the four And
then I found the baths to bewhere the Roman baths are to be very
(35:07):
accessible too, because they've made platformso you're not really rolling over the gravel.
Everybody's walking on these platforms, soit's actually smoothing. Amazing. Is
that the Baths of Caracalla that one? Yes, yeah, I love that
site. It's one of my favoritesin rhyme. And then of course if
you're in the Coliseum Forum area,the Capitalize museums. I'm sure although getting
(35:32):
up that hill or is there aback entrance? That's one of my tricks,
kind of what I did in Sienna. I had a taxi take me
there and then I went into themuseums, and then when I left,
I can't just rolled down. Iwill say that one. It's quite steep,
so you want to be careful,and I rolled down backwards to make
(35:53):
it safer and not flip out.Oh yeah, good idea. I don't
know like I think I would findthat every tooth cooks. I don't like
anything speedy. So it sounds likegoing down backwoods is a very good cheap.
I would say it's good to havegloves on your hands so that you
(36:15):
don't mess up your hands. Ah. Another good cheap I mean in Florence
is your hometown, So is thatan easy place to get around and say
things? Florence is fairly flat tome. I find it very easy to
get around the Again, it's thecobblestones. A cobblestones in Florence are different
(36:37):
than the cobblestones in Rome, andso it's just kind of adjusting from one
to the other ones and one inRome are flatter and bigger, and so
it's kind of adjusting how you haveto roll around them. Again, you
have to look at the ground makesure that there's not any big gaps where
you might get stuck or flip outof your chair. One thing that I've
(36:59):
noticed that they've been doing Inflorence isthey've been doing a lot of street improvement.
So some of the streets, thecobblestones have been reset, so they're
much smoother than they used to be. And so that's something that's nice once
it anywhere in Italy, and Iwould say anywhere in the world. Which
(37:22):
makes people nervous is the sidewalks.Not all of them have curb cuts at
the end, or sometimes there's carsparked on the sidewalks, or sometimes they've
become very narrow so you can't getdown them is I like to roll on
the street a lot. It makespeople a lot really nervous. But to
(37:42):
me, you also have to bea conscience person. If you're going to
make the choice to roll on thestreet, then you need to be alert
for taxis and cars coming and alsounderstand that they had the right away,
so kind of screwed over and letthem go by. I mean, I
can tell that that's account pulated riskfor you because but it's fine because in
most of those center areas there's verysmall number of vehicles that are going down
(38:07):
there well. And sometimes there's likein Florence, one of the main roads,
it has huge buses that run byit, and so the road's already
narrow you have the buses, andif you're there, I usually like try
to squeeze in between two cars thatare park to get out of the bus's
way and not risk the bus makingit around me right here are so it's
(38:31):
barring, honestly, Like just fearless, just go I'm going down this street
like an Italian Ferrari driver. YesI'm right, don't let the bus stop.
Be amazing, and I mean it'sFlorence is doable as well. What
about in like the duomo. Canyou is there an elevator in the Dramo
to get into the Dromo in Florence, the entrance is actually around the side
(38:55):
in the back, and there's aramp to get it. So there's not
an elevator. There's a ramp toget in, and then you can go
inside of the duomo. There isnot an elevator to get up to the
actual dome part that you can goinside and visit the church. And most
of the big churches in Florence havesome type of accessible entrance with a ramp
(39:22):
on the side, like Santa Croce, Santa Marinovela, Santo Spirito. So
they're all accessible. Oh that's great, I mean, because you know,
if you want to go see someart, you roll yourself into the church.
I mean I do. Santa Croceis one of my favorites. It's
just it's got so many surprises aroundevery corner. There something that I think
everyone should go see. Yes,and then the Court York Museum on the
(39:45):
side that has an accessible entrance too. Oh, I'm picturing it now.
Yes, indeeda does. And solet's talk about a city that people might
find very disconcerting if they're in awheelchair that doesn't have a any traffic,
any car traffic. It's Venice andthis is the city of over four hundred
(40:06):
bridges. Now that sounds like achallenge. So I have been to Venice
and I did find it challenging.They do have a map that kind of
marks the accessible routes. I found. I'm really good with the maps,
and I found the map confusing.I'm the kid that love maps. Still
ofs maps had globes and everything alwaysgrowing up, but that map was very
(40:31):
confusing to me. One of thethings too, is it'll show you the
routes, but then some of themdepend on you getting on the v at
one point and then getting off ata different point to get from one I
guess you could call it from oneisland to the next island, and then
(40:51):
the map shows more the route withinthe island. It's accessible. Some of
the bridges are supposed to have orhave like these little elevators, but there's
keys to them. I could neverfigure out where to get the keys.
There are companies that do accessible toursof the island. I think if I
(41:14):
were ever to go back or decideto stay there, for the night.
I would hire one of those companiesto do a tour so that I could
kind of figure it out how itworks, and then you know, once
I see them do it, thenI'll know how to get around. Like
I said, I did find itchallenging. I've read that the best time
to go, which I've never doneit. I'll have to do it one
(41:37):
day and report back again, iswhen they do the marathon. So I
believe maybe a week or two beforethe Venice Marathon, and for a week
or two after they set up rampsfor the runners across all of the bridges.
So they start setting up the rampsI think a week or two before,
and then they remove them a weekor two after. That's what I've
(42:00):
read. I'm not sure what thetimeline. You'd probably want to confirm that
with locals before going. So itmakes the city much more accessible because there's
no stairs on the bridges, it'sall ramps. And the marathon used to
happen in November. I've checked itbefore we got on the call. This
year it's at the end of October, and it seems like last year was
(42:22):
the end of October, so youwould want to look ahead and then kind
of plan your trip around that.I would suggest that that's a great chip.
I guess. The other thing tonote, though, is that some
of those bridges are pretty steep,so you'd want to either get some help
maybe getting at them, and thenroll down backwards exactly so you don't topple
(42:45):
over. Yeah, excellent, Yeah, I think you know. Venice is
one of those places. Yeah,it sounds like it might be a good
idea to get some professional help.What can we expect about tours that catered
to people that are in wheelchairs?I've seen this A few companies pop up
lightly, And what's your impression.The only tour specially designed for wheelchairs that
(43:07):
I've done was in much will betupiddle everywhere else in the world. I've
just kind of gone in, lookedfor the tours, kind of try to
figure out what they do where theysee and then I write the tour company
or the tour guide or whoever's organizingthat particular tour, and I say,
(43:30):
I'm in a wheelchair, like Ican do one step, maybe even two
steps with some help, and youknow, like I can pop the chair
in the trunk, I can transferI give them as much information as possible,
and then they tell me, yes, we could do it, it's
accessible, or we'll figure it out, or we'll find help. And that's
(43:53):
always how I've booked it and I'vedone it so again when I do reviews
on trip Advisor to put you know, this tour was accessible, and I've
had really good luck and success withthat, you know, from doing food
tours, to wineries visits, tohiring private drivers, different things like that.
(44:15):
It's always worked for me. I'venever had an issue. And if
the companies not responsive or they respondright away like oh, we don't do
tours for people in wheelchairs, orif they have it on their website like
no wheelchairs or no strollers, andI don't even bother approaching them because if
(44:36):
they don't want my business, Idon't want to give them my money.
Sounds reasonable to me, Yeah,I guess it's really interesting that people have
seen maybe an opportunity to cater specificallytowards people that are in wheelchairs. And
I've had some feedback from people thatare written into me that some of them
they haven't been on them, butthey seem quite expensive, but I can't
make it comment. Do you haveany impression about that. I've seen tours
(45:00):
at cater for people in wilchairs,but it's more like a complete trip planning,
and I think they do tend tobe very expensive, like double or
triple for what I could plan iton my own. And they also seem
to be more limited into the thingsthat they do or where they go,
(45:22):
like a lot of them. I'llgive you an example that's not like a
group tour for weltchairs, but whenyou're on a cruise, generally most of
the tours are not accessible. Ifthere's a tour that they call its accessible,
basically they have you sitting on abus or a van all day and
you just drive around, and yousee, it's not really getting up and
(45:43):
down and out and actually seeing andexploring the sites. All right, So
I mean, what I'm hearing fromyou, I mean is that if you
have a little bit of creativity anda little bit of flexibility, that you
can really tackle these stuff on yourown. How about some of the smaller
places. You mentioned Sienna, andyou really blew my mind when you told
(46:04):
me about that, so I'd loveyou at least it is to hear what
you did in Sienna. So Siennais a very very steep city. We
went as a day trip from Florence. Took the train, got to the
train station. At the train station, I got a taxi, had him
take me all the way up tothe cathedral in Sienna, and is it
(46:25):
a cathedral? And see is itconsidered a cathedral or I can't? Okay,
So I had the taxi take meup to the cathedral in Sienna.
Once I was up there, whenin saw it it is accessible, so
it is a museum across from thecathedral. And then I just started going
down the city because that's basically atthe top of the city, and so
(46:47):
it was just easy to roll down. Now, some of the streets or
sections where I was rolling down werevery steep, and again there's cobblestone,
so you have to be careful,but it is is doable. There was
a few where I went down andthen maybe I had to go back up,
but it was much easier than havingstarted at the bottom and having to
(47:12):
push all the way up. Imight have had, you know, two
or three hills of versus one hundred. I mean, I reckon you easily
deserve three or four gelato a dayjust by yourself. Around there's a lot
of muscle work happening there, I'msure amazing, say, and then with
San Giminiano it's steep, so oneas you get into the town, you
(47:36):
go up and then on the otherend you're gonna go down. And so
if you have enough upper body strengththen I did it up and down by
myself this last time I was therelast month. But it's also if you
have somebody with you that can helpyou push, it's very doable. And
(47:57):
then most of the shops have nosteps or on stuff to get in,
so if you wanted to go inand explore, you can. And if
you went with someone and they weredriving, are you able to use like
a disabled sticka like they have insome parts of the world like here in
Australia if you so. My dad, for example, he's got limited mobility,
(48:19):
so he has a sticka that hecan access certain car spaces. Is
that possible initially? You know?I don't know. I know that Italy
has placards that they issue for peopleto be able to use the handicap parking.
Every time I say I'm going totake my US one and see if
they'll allow me to use it,and every time I forget, since I
(48:42):
don't use a car much over there. But that's one of the things that
I've been trying to figure out,if they would allow me to use my
US one there or if somebody's comingfrom another country, if they would allow
you to use your placard from thatcountry. I don't know the answer to
that. You can report back onthat one too, Yes, I will
report back on that. Fantastic,you know. And then the other one
(49:05):
place that I was thinking of thatwould be like, I don't even know
where you'd stop, but I doknow that you amy would have a solution.
It would be the Amalfi Coast anda place in places like Positano.
Have you ever attempted that? So? Yes, So what we did it
was actually my first trip to Italy. It was part of a crew stop.
We hired a driver to take usthe Maufi Coast. We stopped and
(49:29):
Sorrento. I was able to rollthrough Sorrento, that was not a problem,
and then we went to Positano.That is going to be more challenging
because it is very steep and it'sall these stairs. There was a section
of street where the driver left usand I was able to explore some shops,
(49:51):
so it is doable for a visit. I would probably not stay there
unless the hotel's right off the mainroad, and then I know for sure
at the hotels accessible, because thenI know I'm also going to be probably
more confined to that hotel than justlike a few shops and restaurants. We
went from there to the town ofa Malfi, and then that had some
(50:13):
areas and shops which were accessible.Again, it's doable for a few hours.
I probably wouldn't stay there overnight.And then I've stayed in Naples.
Naples is very accessible, and thentook the ferry to Capity. The ferry
is accessible, and then once inCopity, I was able to do a
(50:36):
boat tour to go around the islandand see the Blue Grotto. The boat
was not per se accessible, butI was able to jump out from my
chair and get into the boat andthey helped me, and then they left
my wheelchair in a shop, andthen once we got back, they helped
me get again out of the boatand into my chair and my chair was
waiting for me. Oh that's amazing. I'm psychology had experience is one of
(51:00):
my favorites. In the world.And then the funicular up to the island
from where the fairy leaves you isaccessible, so you can go open to
the island and explore it. Andthe same thing for autoviet Or the finicular
is accessible, so you could goto Autovieto by train, take the finecular
(51:20):
up and then explore the city.Another one of my favorite places in Italy
where it's a beautiful town. Ohthat's so cool, Amy, You are
amazing and I just love that youjust don't let anything stop you and you
found ways. I think it's reallyinspiring. Just you know, we have
a big Facebook group of travelers andwe hear a lot of petty grievances on
(51:44):
that every day, but I reallyfeel like that anything can be overcome with
a positive attitude and just a bitof creativity. Thank you so much for
sharing your insight and experience traveling Isially. I know many many people will have
found this discussion extremely helpful. Ifour listeners had any questions, would you
be happy for them to reach outto you. Yes, they can reach
(52:07):
out to me through my Instagram accountwhich is Whirling the World, and just
send me a DM through there andI will be happy to help them in
any way I can. And Ithink it sounds like you've got a really
good process of reviewing places on tripAdvisor. Do you do that regularly?
I used to be much better,added, I'm like two years behind on
(52:29):
my reviews. I need to goback and finish reviewing everything that I've done
these last two years. I knowwe had a bit of a pause there,
didn't we let's not mention the pause. Yeah, but it's it's probably
worth going back and have and begreat to hear your reviews. I was
actually one of the few people thatwas traveling throughout the pandemic. It was
kind of nice because nowhere was crowded. I know you've hap to give up
(52:53):
your quiet Florence. Now it's ashame. Oh grade, Amy. Thank
you so much for sharing all yourdeep insight and for joining us and Untold
Italy today. It's been truly inspirationalto hear how you travel through Italy with
such a positive attitude and with youreyes wide open and just enjoying every last
(53:14):
minute. I love it. Thankyou, Amy, It's been a pleasure.
You know what. I think,Amy is amazing, But I also
think it shouldn't require so much effortin terms of planning, thinking, cost,
and physical exertion on her part tohave the experiences that so many of
us take for granted. There area lot of news reports these days about
(53:37):
the crowds and heat in Italy,and I stopped to wonder how Amy would
manage it, probably with a bigsmile on her face and no complaints,
which is more that can be saidfor some of us who have fewer challenges.
Unfortunately, I think it's going totake a much bigger effort on the
part of able bodied people as acollective to make things much easier for people
who are traveling with a disability tohave an easier time. But in the
(54:00):
meantime, let's take a leaf outof the Italian attitude and offer to help
individuals where we can, just tomake people's lives that much easier. It
doesn't take much, does it.Now. If you're keen to learn more
about accessible travel in Italy or areinspired to pack your bags now you've heard
these on the ground ideas for gettingaround and enjoying yourself when you get there.
(54:22):
We put all the tips, ideasand links Amy shared, as well
as her social media links into theshow notes on our website at Untold Italy
dot com. Forward slash one eightythree for episode number one hundred and eighty
three. GRATSIMIREI, thank you somuch for your ongoing support of Untold Italy.
We truly appreciate all of you,our listeners, joining us from all
(54:43):
around the world, and we wouldlove it if you help spread the words
so we can reach more Italy lovingtravelers just like you. The best way
that you can do this is byleaving us a five star rating or review
on your favorite podcast app or forwardingthis episode onto a friend who also loves
colorful towns, delightful local customs,and the magic of regional Italy. That's
(55:05):
all for today. Next week,DANIELLEA, Terry and I will be chatting
about the summer season so far inItaly and takeaways for those of you who
are traveling soon or thinking about asummer trip to Italy next year or in
future years to come. But untilthen, it's chow for now. The
Untold Italy podcast is an independent productionpodcast editing, audio production and website development
(55:29):
by Mark Hatter, Production assistance andcontent writing by the Other KD Clark.
Yes, there are two of usFor more information about untold Italy, please
visit untold Italy dot com
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