What if reconnecting with ancient traditions could transform your life? Join us as we welcome Ramsay Taum, a cultural resource and practitioner of Hawaiian traditions like Ho'oponopono. Ramsay takes us on a journey through his upbringing in Hawaii, where he was profoundly influenced by his grandmothers and other elders. Despite the pressures of American assimilation, he was drawn back to his roots, learning the rich traditions of his heritage through service and sharing with the elders. Explore the profound concept of mana, the life force present in all things, similar to qi or prana. Ramsay shares invaluable insights into how mana drives life and health through the balance of polarities, much like maintaining a balanced nervous system. Learn about the transformative practice of Ho'oponopono, emphasizing its role in restoring harmony and proper alignment in our lives. This ancient practice goes beyond problem-solving, fostering healing from within through forgiveness and spiritual realignment, making it a powerful tool for personal growth and balance.
Lastly, we delve into the Hawaiian language's spiritual depth, focusing on the word " Na’auao." Ramsay explains how words embody elements of fire, god, heat, light, and foundation, underlining the importance of mindful communication. Hear about the significance of the gut as a source of intuition and inner knowledge, and the fractal nature of Hawaiian thought. Reflect on how our thoughts, emotions, and words manifest our realities, and learn how Ho'oponopono can restore relationships and create a harmonious life. Join us for a profound reflection on interconnectedness and the transformative power of Hawaiian wisdom.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Michele Burklund (00:05):
Welcome to the podcast Medicine Untold and
come with me on a journey tothe unexplored side of medicine,
where we speak with rebeldoctors, radical herbalists,
unorthodox healers and patientswho have healed themselves.
Explore the intersectionbetween science and spirituality
and discover the power withinyou.
(00:26):
I'm your host, dr MichelleBirkland, licensed naturopathic
doctor, botanical alchemist andpracticing physician.
Welcome everyone today.
Today, we have Ramsey Tom withus, so welcome.
I'm so excited you're here.
Ramsay Taum (00:47):
Aloha.
Thank you for having me.
Dr. Michele Burklund (00:49):
And I'm going to read a little bit about
your background to introduceyou, and we'll go deeper into
that in a little bit.
So Ramsey Taum is a recognizedcultural resource and
sought-after keynote speaker,lecturer, trainer and
facilitator.
He's been trained by respectedHawaiian elders and is a
practitioner and instructor ofseveral Hawaiian practices,
including Ho'oponopono, inaddition to others.
(01:13):
He is also the founder andpresident of the Hawaii-based
Life Enhancement Institute ofthe Pacific LLC, the director of
the Pacific Islands LeadershipInstitute at Hawaii Pacific
University and culturalsustainability planner at PBR
Hawaii and Associates.
Ramsey effectively integratesplace-based, cultural-based
(01:35):
indigenous and native Hawaiiancultural values and principles
into contemporary business.
So thank you so much.
That was a very impressivebackground too.
Ramsay Taum (01:47):
Oh well, thank you, Appreciate it.
I'm tired just listening to it.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:53):
So, to get started, can you kind of tell
our audience a bit about yourbackground and how you came into
this and into teaching thesepractices and how it found you
kind of on your journey too?
Ramsay Taum (02:06):
Yeah, I think that last statement is probably truer
than anything else.
It found me and actuallyanytime I tried to step away
from it, thinking I was going tofollow another path, things
happened, so I ended up gettingpulled back into it.
So rather than fight it, youknow, I just continued on the
(02:30):
flow.
I was born and raised in Hawaiiand my ancestors come from both
Hawaii the islands as well asfrom the east the Chinese
ancestry.
But I'd like to say I'm 100%part Hawaiian.
My cultural upbringingfundamentally has been in what
(02:52):
we say kanaka maoli, theHawaiian culture.
I say that because Hawaiian isactually a nationality and not
so much an ethnicity, the rootedculture we refer to as Kanaka
Maoli, the native people ofthese lands.
So, with that upbringing andreally been immersed in various
(03:20):
components of the culturealthough I was raised in the
American culture because, ofcourse, the United States and
the state of Hawaii representthat frame and that concept but
deep underneath all that is thekanakamole Hawaiian culture, and
(03:42):
I was fortunate that I hadgrandmothers that lived that way
.
They lived the culture in theirbeing.
And then I also attendedKamehameha Schools, a school
that was created for NativeHawaiian children by the
Princess Bernice Pohi Bishop sothat we would have a good
(04:04):
education, native Hawaiianchildren by the Princess Bernice
Pohi Bishop so that we wouldhave a good education.
And it was during these timesand this upbringing that we
began to see that, while we'retrying, the community was trying
to get us to assimilate right,there were parts of our culture
(04:29):
that were staying alive, beingpracticed and maintained by
particular families, particularelders kupuna as we require, as
I would say.
And so I was fortunate at somepoint in time to uh be engaged
with it, and they saw that I hadan empty coconut that needed to
be filled and they proceeded todo that, more so because I was
(04:49):
probably the last man standing.
Everyone else went out to playand I was still in the room with
them and I was close enough forthem to grab, and they grabbed
me, which I'm so grateful thatthey did.
But it was really a reciprocityagreement unspoken by being
(05:14):
there in service to them, whichis part of our practice, caring
for our elders.
I had the good fortune oflearning from them, not so much
that they were specificallyteaching, but sharing, and I
think that kind of leads intoyour other question about how I
got into the teaching component.
I really don't consider itteaching, but really sharing and
(05:36):
, as a result, hopefully peoplelearn things.
And so it was that traditionand eventually it led to the
work that I'm doing today.
Dr. Michele Burklun (05:48):
Interesting .
So it kind of started with theelders.
You were around with yourgrandparents and then you met
different elders kind of on yourjourney.
But it wasn't officialtrainings, it's more like you
aligned with them and thenlearned from them yeah, there
(06:10):
was always an interest there.
Ramsay Taum (06:11):
But you see, um, I grew up at a time when hawaii
was just becoming a state 1959,1960, that period so there was a
concerted effort really to moveaway from, or not highlight,
hawaiian culture.
Actually, my grandmothers comefrom a time where they didn't
(06:31):
want their children, my parentsor that generation, to speak the
language or to even considerthat it was about becoming part
of the American fabric of things.
Consider that it was aboutbecoming part of the American
fabric of things.
So, even the language Icouldn't listen to the language
unless I was hiding outside.
(06:52):
I could hear my grandmother'sto her friends, but the minute I
walked into the room they wouldquickly revert to English, and
so it was a difficult time forthe culture because it was a
time when it was illegal tospeak the language.
It wasn't until 1978 that webegan to see the revival of some
(07:16):
of these cultural practices thepractice of Lomi Aha, which is
part of the Hawaiian battle artsystem, l lua system.
Even that was hidden for awhile.
Um, the hula most people knewabout the hula.
That had been revived early,but more so because of the
(07:37):
visitor and tourism industry.
It was more for entertainmentthan it was for cultural
transfer of knowledge andcommuning with nature, which is
really an underlying principlebehind that practice, the battle
system of Lua, which I'm also apractitioner of.
Similarly, we thought many of usdidn't even know it existed.
(07:58):
We thought it had been lost totime and antiquity, but
fortunately there are someparents uh, families, I should
say that maintained it.
And then, ho'oponopono, thispractice of making right and
putting things into proper order, um, similarly, was being
taught by certain individualsand families, really more as an
(08:20):
internal family mediationprocess which brings about
healing at many levels physical,mental, spiritual.
But all of our practices wereconsidered taboo things that you
just didn't talk about.
So it wasn't until I beganmeeting and being around these
(08:46):
kupuna, these elders, that Ibegan to see that it was still
very much alive, that we aren'ta dead culture, something you
see in the museum.
We are a living culture, whichwas very important to us and to
myself to help not only restoreit, revive it, but to make sure
we perpetuate it.
(09:06):
So this entered into manyplaces in the world of business,
in the world of legislation andpolicymaking, to make it really
part of our daily life.
So culture isn't something youdo on weekends, honey.
I'm going to do my culturething and I'll be back tomorrow.
Right, if culture is what it is, it's part of our life, it's
(09:31):
living, then it should beintegrated in our daily
practices and to a certainextent, ho'oponopono is that
it's a way of being, the processand practice of lua.
It's also a way of being, asmuch as it's, a combat battle
system.
The principles, the values, uh,the intentions, are things that
(09:52):
you live on a day-to-day basis,and with that comes health,
prosperity, happiness and allthese other things.
So, but by being around them, Iwas able to see it and
experience it and, as I said,they saw something within me
that they felt confident enoughto share it with me so that I
(10:12):
could then turn around and shareit with others later.
And so I'm sitting here reallyappreciating the fact there are
numerous elders, appreciatingthe fact there are numerous
elders I would say between 10and 15 that at some point in
time came into my life or I intotheirs and they began to share.
If I stop at 10, mind you,there were a few more.
(10:36):
I would suggest all of themwere in their 80s or older,
which means the accumulation ofall that information was about
800 years of experience.
So I had the fortune of beingaround that and around
individuals who had reallysucceeded as far as the external
(10:58):
parts of their lives.
So they were really in what theMaslow talked about that
self-actualization stage, werereally in what the maslow talked
about, that self-actualizationstage, and so to be around them
at a time when they're willingto share was quite important.
So I I call it fortune as muchas it was just opportunity.
so I can say I didn't anticipateor vision being where I'm at
(11:21):
today here talking to you aboutthese things, but it was just a
matter of course and being inthe right place at the right
time.
Dr. Michele Burklund (11:30):
Yeah, or your energy, attracting their
energy and them, kind ofchoosing you and you choosing
them definitely for thisexperience and sharing this
knowledge to a larger group,which I think is pretty amazing
that you can do now also, andgetting that knowledge and that
(11:52):
sacred information out to peoplein a way that we can understand
it and and cherish it in thatway, too, is is pretty amazing
seen.
Ramsay Taum (12:01):
Well, like I said, I I am grateful because in
hindsight, when I look back um,I'm seeing now where, early on
um there are downloads, thereare things that are happening,
um little things are positioningand putting me on a trajectory
(12:21):
to do these kinds of things.
It wasn't a conscious, but itwas a flow, right, staying in
that flow.
So I can go back and look andsay, wow, you know this is not
what I intended, but I guess itis.
You end up where you end up.
Exactly.
(12:42):
So it's been quite a journey.
You end up and so it's.
It's been quite a journey.
It's not over yet and continueto, you know invite other
companions along the way when wecan.
Dr. Michele Burklund (12:58):
Right, and can you tell us a little bit
more?
So I was listening to youexplain different theories about
Hawaiian culture and andthere's there's a lot of depth,
that I know a lot of discussionbetween these, but I wanted to
hear a little bit about how youdescribe the term mana and like
and what that means in Hawaiianand Hawaiian culture and kind of
set the stage for that, sopeople can understand the
(13:22):
essence kind of behind it.
Ramsay Taum (13:24):
Sure, you know I'll start broad and come in.
I mean, in biblical storiesthey talk about the tribe of
people walking across the desertright being fed by manna, the
gift of God, life energy, thisfood.
Well, the concept of man, mana,is not so different M-A-N-A.
(13:47):
Mana is this notion of lifeforce, life energy that's in all
things, it's in us.
The Chinese might refer to itas chi, the Japanese might refer
to it as ki, others prana,basically, basically, that life
force, energy that is in allthings.
And so mana is a big part ofthe understanding of health, but
(14:15):
also of life at large.
When we talk about electricity,the power that runs through and
runs all things, in terms ofmachines, mana is kind of like
that it's in all things and itruns all things.
In terms of machines, mana iskind of like that it's in all
things and it runs all things.
So it can be considered.
I like to say the notion thatone is in and one is out.
(14:37):
It's a balance.
Ma is the feminine nature, orthe negative polarity, while na
is the masculine, or positivepolarity, and the interchange of
these two energies, soft andhard, in and out, light and dark
, those principles of yin yang.
They're constantly in movement,they're in play, so there's
(15:00):
never more than one or the other, but they're always in exchange
.
So you're looking forequilibrium, not equality.
So sometimes you're more ma,sometimes you're more na, and if
you're living with health inmind and proper balance that is
(15:22):
always going back and forth andthat revealed in your health and
your thoughts and yourbehaviors and practices, like
that, um and it's.
It can be inherited, butthere's also something that's
within you.
I mean, it's already there, butthen it can be generated and
maybe that's a wrong term.
It can be accessed in the sameway that um.
(15:48):
I'm not sure have you ever seenan image of a fish spouting
water?
So the fish isn't creating thewater, right, the fish is
accessing water around itthrough his gills and spitting
the water out.
Omana is similar.
We're in mana, we're swimming,it's all around us, it's in us,
(16:11):
but it's also all around us, andso it's a misnomer to think
that we're generating mana anymore than we're generating air.
We're in the air, oxygen.
You can either accept it or not.
(16:33):
So you access the air, theoxygen, and similarly access the
manna.
Now, depending on how well youare accessing it, you have more
or less of it, and when you'rein dis-ease and disorder and
illness, you could say that youare low in manna.
By eating the right foods,doing the right movements and
(16:54):
exercises, you begin to improvethe system's ability to access
as well as distribute that manna.
So it is something that'saccessible to all and we tend to
make it very mystical, but inreality it's just part of who we
are.
It's what helps our hair growand our eyes blink and our
(17:16):
hearts move.
It's all part of that, so it'snot separate from us.
Like many people want to makeit.
We have to bring it and go getit, but it's really a part of us
and once we understand that,then we can learn to access it
and recognize it and utilize itbetter and so it's, it's almost
(17:39):
it's.
Dr. Michele Burklund (17:39):
It's keeping the balance somehow too.
So it's not having like anexcess of something or a like
not enough of something, butit's keeping that balance
somehow too.
So it's not having like anexcess of something or a like
not enough of something, butit's keeping that balance and
keeping that flow at a certainrate too, cause if you have, is
there an issue if you have toomuch or too little, or is it?
Is there a like, a negative anda positive when it comes to
(18:01):
that energy, or is it?
Ramsay Taum (18:07):
negative and a positive when it comes to that
energy, or is it yeah, yeah, umagain, if we look at it from
that standpoint, as polaritiesmy one soft, one hard, one
negative polarity, one positivepolarity and that's neither good
or bad, that's a.
That's the way we place weighton those terms, right right
right but one is receiving andone is giving so much like the
(18:30):
parasympathetic sympatheticsystem.
When that's out of balance ifyou're not sleeping enough,
you're always up something'sgoing to occur your adrenals are
going to burn out, you know.
So those are probably good waysof looking at them in the
contemporary space is that yourparasympathetic, sympathetic
(18:50):
system is needs to be in balanceso that you can amp and run
when you need to, or you can sitand relax when you need to, and
the more you have the abilityto control that and manage that
consciously, then you'reprobably in a much better
position to manage and maintainyour health.
(19:12):
Many of us, however, aren'taware of that Right, so we fall
victim not to anything elseexternal, but to an internal
inability to manage and know ourplace, which is our home, where
we live right, right, and it'sodd because we, we should be
living here, and yet whenthere's a disorder or disease,
(19:36):
we leave here to go somewhereoutside, to someone who lives
outside to tell us what's goingon inside right, right, yeah
which is kind of awkward, right.
So I'm going to my neighbor'shouse to find out how to clean
my own.
It just doesn't.
There's a disconnect.
So money is like that.
(19:56):
So I like to say, um, in thisworld today, it's how to
monetize versus just monetize.
Dr. Michele Burklund (20:03):
I like that.
I like that.
I mean I think, like thedefinition I always use for
health, is balance right?
It's not.
It's always keeping everythingin alignment and balance.
The same thing, kind of, withfinding peace rather than
happiness or avoiding sadness.
Ramsay Taum (20:21):
It's staying in the middle, or staying in the
middle of the circle, keepingthe balance with everything,
staying in the middle or stayedin the middle of the circle,
keeping the balance witheverything?
Yeah, and I think you canextend that to, uh, the notion
of harmony, uh, which isn'tnecessarily balanced from, I
think, the traditional sense ofthere's five on one side of the
equation and five on the other.
Right, that's the way I thinkmost people look at balance, at
(20:44):
least in the western principle.
Uh, because balance is you havefive and I have five, you have
ten and I.
That's equality.
But we know the body is changingconstantly, right, there's a
temperature fluctuation and thensomething happens to either
bring it back down or meet it.
That's what we talk aboutequilibrium, much like the ocean
(21:08):
, in order for the environmentto be in balance.
The tide comes in and the tidegoes out.
It doesn't just stay in and itdoesn't just stay out.
So there's always a movement,and being in sync and
synchronizing with that movementis harmony, and that's where
balance is.
(21:28):
And if I'm there at the wrongtime, I could be crushed by a
wave.
What's not the wave's fault,right, it's just I did not plan
or prepare myself for thatenergy.
Now, if I bring a surfboard,then I might ride that wave
rather than get crushed.
There's peace and harmony right.
(21:49):
So at that point in time it'sbeing responsive and recognizing
conditions and adjusting andadapting to those conditions
with mindfulness and awareness.
And many of us just have eitherlost or forgotten the practices
and the ability to be aware andto be mine.
(22:10):
So I think more and more of usare waking up to that and I try
to come back to that umbeingness, you know, being
present, being in yourself,being in it.
I like to tell my, tell mystudents, it's all an inside job
.
Dr. Michele Burklund (22:28):
Right, and it really is too.
Yeah, so kind of with that canwe transition, and can you kind
of tell us a little bit moreabout the practice of
Ho'oponopono and what the realmeaning is?
I think, especially today, thatname and the practice is around
(22:52):
quite a bit, but I still thinkthere's a lot of confusion or
somehow the depth gets lost kindof in the mix here.
So I think this is a perfectquestion to kind of ease into
with that.
Ramsay Taum (23:06):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, so the term or the wordis ho'oponopono, so repeat that
with me.
Ho'oponopono right and it's ponois the word for proper, correct
(23:30):
, appropriate integrity, if youwould.
It's a.
It's a larger condition.
The word pono pono refers tothe ability to see or to measure
when things are in proper order, balance and in harmony.
So the example would be openingyour kitchen drawer.
I think most people, at leastin this part of the world, are
(23:53):
familiar that.
Open the kitchen door andthere's a tray and that tray is
where your forks and your spoonsand your knives.
So that helps you to see thateverything is where it's
supposed to be In health.
We look for vital signs heartrate, blood pressure.
When they're in the right placeat the right time, I can
measure it.
We can say, ah, things are pono, pono.
(24:16):
So when things are pono pono,then everything else above that
is pono.
So my forks and spoons andknives are in the right place.
Pono, pono.
That means my kitchen drawer ispono right, okay, so the word
ho'opono means to behavecorrectly.
(24:36):
So after I wash my dishes andhave my meal, I clean, I wash
and I return the utensils to thedrawer the spoons and the
spoons and the forks and theforks and the knives and the
knives.
That's ho'opono.
So when you behave ho'oponoproperly, you will see the
(24:58):
results of your work pono, pono.
And now you know that you arepono.
See the order.
So hoʻopono behavior ismeasured by a pono pono method
and assessed and described aspono.
Pono is the condition that we'reall trying to achieve to be in
proper alignment with the worldaround us the spirit, physical,
(25:24):
mental and emotional and ourrelationships.
That would be pono.
Now, when you find that yourforks and spoons are not in the
right place and everything elsethat's lost, you know your keys
and your license and you findthem scattered about your drawer
, that is what we call pono'ole,the absence of order, or
(25:47):
a'olipono, improper behavior.
So when someone is behavingimproperly, a'olipono, or the
condition is pono'ole, out ofbalance and misaligned, there is
a method now to restore thatalignment, and that method is
called ho'oponopono.
Ho'o is the concept ofcombining, putting things
(26:11):
together, bringing them.
It's an action word.
So anytime you say ho'o beforesomething, you're putting it
into action, as ho'opono isdoing the right thing.
Ho'oponopono means to put itinto proper order.
So ho'oponopono, then, isreally the term for alignment,
(26:34):
the act of putting things intoalignment again, into their
proper place, and to restoreorder.
It is not, however, the idea offixing.
It's about healing, and it'simportant because we live in a
world that really comes out ofan industrial age where we
(26:54):
relied heavily on mechanics andtechnology and technicians to
fix things that are broken.
But the human condition isn't abroken, we're not a thing that
breaks.
We're in dis-ease and disorder.
So a technician, a mechanic,isn't what we need.
We need a healer, a physician,something that helps us inside
(27:18):
out versus outside, in whichwhat which most mechanics do
they're outside the thing andthey work on it, whereas a
proper healer works with youfrom the inside out.
Whether we're changing yourchemical makeup or your mental
thoughts and emotional focus,it's always an inside job
(27:41):
facilitated by someone trainedto do that.
So the Ho'oponopono practice isabout that.
How do you restore alignmentfirst to one's own internal
family, your spiritual, mentaland emotional family within you,
which is what our processrecognizes.
(28:02):
And it's a process, it's notsomething you do to people, it's
not something you do at.
So I'm not going to come in andho'oponopono, you Pull out my
gun and fire my ho'oponoponobullet at you, but it's
something, a practice that eachperson does with guidance from
someone else until they can doit on their own to realign those
(28:27):
things within us.
And once we have an alignmentthere, then we can start
aligning with things elsewhere.
So the process of Ho'oponoponoreally is about aligning to the
one, the one, what, the onecondition, the preferred
condition, proper health, properorder, proper relationships,
(28:49):
etc.
Now Ho'oponopono is also knownas a forgiveness process.
Well, forgiveness just happensto be a process of realigning
broken relationships right or amisunderstanding.
So, once again, at the end ofthe day, ho'oponopono is about
realigning, putting things intoproper order.
(29:10):
Now, when I said it's not fixing, what I mean by it's not just
fixing a problem.
It's actually creating acondition where the problem no
longer exists.
The conditions that the problemrequired required to be a
problem, such asmisunderstanding, right.
Otherwise, all we're doing ismaking a bad thing better, and I
(29:35):
don't think we want a betterbad thing, so we don't want to
throw good after bad hope.
One opponent's about reallycreating a preferred condition.
What does that look like?
So, rather than going to aconference on conflict
resolution and trying to resolvethe conflict by bringing it
into the room and then pushingit out.
(29:56):
It's like bringing an elephantin and trying to spend the rest
of the day pushing it out of theroom.
How do we create a room wherethe elephant doesn't live
anymore?
Right so, rather than focusingon the problem, focusing on the
preferred condition and, as aresult, the whole ponopono
process really begins to removethe criteria or adopt a criteria
(30:17):
that allows you to be in thepreferred place rather than
living better in a bad place.
Does that make sense?
Dr. Michele Burklund (30:29):
right so it's it's fixing within and
going within for everything andsaying where is this out of
alignment, what belief, whatenergy pattern?
And removing that within.
So then it's not a constant,even if it's not that elephant.
It could be another else,that's coming in.
Ramsay Taum (30:48):
Right, that's right .
Yeah, so there's a tendency toto look at the problem as an
external thing, but the realityis, whatever we're feeling is an
internal thing, and so, if I'mhaving an emotional issue, to
place blame on something outsideof us misses the point.
So when we say you make me feelthis way, at the end of the day
(31:11):
I feel this way, but I place itin the responsibility of how I
feel on someone else.
It's taking responsibility, butthis is the way I feel, and I
feel this way because I heardwhat you said or I saw what you
did in a way that it bothers me,right.
So when I take responsibilityfor the fact that I'm making
that decision about how youbehave and how it affects me,
(31:35):
then it really doesn't matterhow you behave, it really
matters on how I translate that.
And where does that come from?
Why do I translate it that way?
It's because of memory,experience, expectations, and so
the whole Pona Pona process isreally about reframing and
removing those memories thatserve as barriers and obstacles
(31:58):
to our moving forward, to ourphysical, mental, spiritual
health, as well as to ourrelationships, and so it is a
spiritual process and not onethat I can consciously go in and
say, okay, I'm no longer goingto do this simply by saying that
, which is what has happened inmany ways because that exercise
(32:24):
I think they call it NLP, right?
There is that notion that if Ispeak it and I resonate with it
mantras, affirmations, mantras,affirmations while much of the
time that does work, perhapstemporarily, if you don't remove
the fundamental memory or thething that's inside you, then
(32:45):
you and I may be able to come toan agreement and forgive one
another, but the issue is stillwithin me, which means the next
person and the person after thatthat triggers me.
We'll get the same amount ofanger, pain that I did with you,
but I just happened to make itright with you.
But I'm going to keep carryingthat with me.
(33:07):
And so this is where some peopleare having difficulty applying
what has become a practice ofsaying certain things like thank
you, I love you, I forgive youor forgive me.
Those are important statements,no question, but they aren't
necessarily cleansing orremoving the internal thought,
(33:29):
emotion or reason for the fearthat I'm feeling, that's
triggered by you every time Isee you or anyone that reminds
me of you.
So maybe an easy way for it isfor your listeners to repeat
these words, and maybe you cando it with me just for fun, just
for tickles.
What is it about me?
(33:51):
Oh, you want me to um.
Dr. Michele Burklund (33:57):
What is it about me, oh?
Ramsay Taum (33:58):
you want me to?
What is it about me that allowsme that?
Dr. Michele Burklund (34:00):
allows me to see in you, to see in you
what bugs me what bugs me aboutyou about you right.
Ramsay Taum (34:09):
So if each of us were, were saying that, were
saying that, what is it about methat's allowing me to see in
you, this person, this condition, what causes me to be bothered
by that?
What is it about me?
What did I bring to thissituation?
That every time I smell, hear,taste, hear, taste, touch, feel
(34:37):
and experience this, that youthem, that I run, I hide, I
freeze there's something aboutme that is triggered by these
things, that causes me to behavea certain way, as in move
across the planet, quit my job,leave my home, right, whatever
that might be, or prevents mefrom really achieving the goals
that I had in my life.
Because of some fear, someanxiety, because it's not those
(34:58):
things.
I had a student come to me andsay Kumu, I have a problem with
her, I have a problem with him,I have a problem with them.
And they proceeded to ask mewhat I thought and my response
was you have a problem.
The common denominator in allof those things for that person
(35:20):
was I have a problem.
In our contemporary space, wewould often say you bug me.
When the Buddha says what is itabout me that allows you to bug
me?
Because that places a greaterability within you to take
(35:40):
responsibility for that, as wellas to release that once you
understand what the process is.
So, to really oversimplify it,it's really a cleansing process
that removes those triggers orsplinters, if you would that are
in us, that get triggered bysomeone's words, behaviors, just
(36:03):
how they look, Because it goesback to an earlier memory that
may be embedded in oursubconscious.
An earlier memory that may beembedded in our subconscious and
perhaps maybe came in with us.
If you subscribe to the conceptof life and rebirth birth and
rebirth then there's a potentialthat many of the things that we
came into this existence withhad already been planted there
(36:25):
to enable us to interact withthe world that we chose to come
into.
If that's the case, interactwith the world that we chose to
come into.
If that's the case, then thereare some things that are there
to help us avoid pain and othersto overcome it.
Some of us, however, areprogrammed more to avoid pain
than overcome it, and that tendsto be a much more fear-based
(36:46):
experience than one of aproactive-based experience, and
much of that comes from thosememories and, of course, by how
we were nurtured around peoplewho were either fear-based or
faith-based.
So sorry, long answer to ashort question.
Dr. Michele Burklund (37:04):
Right.
I mean, I think that'sincredibly powerful and I think
that a lot of my own patientsand people who are listening to
a lot of them, they're recognizetheir triggers or they're say
I'm I know that something'swrong with me, this is
triggering me or this happenedand I need to remove it.
But a lot of people I think arelike okay, how do I remove it
(37:25):
now?
How do I push that button, howdo I take that out, even if I am
aware that it's my trigger andmy issue?
So I think that this practicecould be incredibly powerful to
learn, because that's so much ofa core issue that I run into in
my own clinical practice ofjust having patients recognize,
(37:46):
want it to get out of it, butthen they really don't know the
next steps of how to remove that.
Ramsay Taum (37:55):
Yeah, I mean I would liken it to the idea I'm
sitting in front of my computerand all of a sudden I see funny
things going on in my computer.
Now I can consciously say Idon't want that anymore.
But I don't have the skill setto make it change because I
don't know how to get into theprogramming.
(38:15):
I'm not a programmer.
So my conscious mind may sayI've got a problem, I've got to
address this problem.
Every day I turn on my computerand said I've got a problem, I
got to address this problem.
I'm not going to do thisanymore.
But if it's built into theprogramming, I'm not going to do
this anymore.
But if it's built into theprogramming I need a programmer.
I need someone that can getinto the underlying program to
(38:36):
change the memory.
What some of us don't is that wekeep making adjustments,
accommodations for the littleerrors.
So one day it's an adjustmentto the right.
Three days later it's twoadjustments to the right.
The next thing you know, we'rewalking around in a circle
(38:56):
adjusting to the pain that we'refeeling on the left.
And the next thing you know,our life is about going in
circles because we're avoidingthe pain on the left.
I don't want to do that anymore.
I want to keep doing it, but wehaven't changed the initial
programming, that underlyingbase memory that is triggered
every time I look left.
So I fool myself into thinkingthat I've now overcome it by
(39:18):
looking to the right only.
Okay.
And so when I look to the right, oh, the problem's not there
anymore.
But eventually we run into itagain, because all we did was
walk around in a circle.
You see that?
And I keep telling myself I'veI've taken measures to avoid it.
Therefore it doesn't existanymore.
Well, the stimulus may no longerbe in your space, but the thing
(39:41):
that's being stimulated is,it's still in you right right so
this concept really begins tosay if you're allowing external
realities or externalities todefine your reality, your pain,
your discomfort, then reallyyou're a victim of externalities
and you're a victim of your ownexpectations of what those
(40:03):
realities can do to you or thoseexpectations externally can do
to you, so that gives someoneelse something else, power.
So this is the power dynamic,right?
if I have to wait for you to sayI'm sorry in order for me to
feel better, I'm a victim ofthat right if I have to wait for
(40:23):
the world to get better beforeI start behaving better, then
I'm a victim of my own behavior,right, because I'm expecting
something else outside of you.
So the Ho'oponopono processreally is a very powerful
process because it enables us tocome back into our power, and
I'm not saying physical power tohurt people, but really to take
(40:46):
responsibility for how I'mfeeling, how I'm behaving and
teaching others how to treat me,which is very different.
So I'm no longer a victim ofyour inability to say I'm sorry,
right, or your inability to seemy truth while I'm living in it
.
And that's the other part yourtruth, my truth.
(41:08):
But what's our truth?
The Ho, the whole point upon theprocess, begins to look at that
and say there's, there aremultiple truths.
The real question is what's thetruth that we want to land on?
What do we agree to and can welive from that perspective?
And my truth is I come from avery wounded, traumatic
(41:29):
experience.
Well, if that's case, then howcan I move into something else
until I release that?
Hypothetically, right, I mean,each of us needs to explore that
.
So if someone can get to thatpoint, the Ho'oponopono process
helps them to go into that depth, because what it's relying on
is the programmer, yourrelationship with the programmer
(41:50):
, in this case, the spiritualrelationship with the divine,
the grand creator, the grandprogrammer, god, if you would.
So, if you subscribe to thatnotion at all, then here is a
way of actually becoming muchmore in tune and connected with
the architect and the programmer, which is why it is a spiritual
(42:11):
principle.
It requires a different levelof intervention.
Dr. Michele Burklund (42:19):
And I think definitely my audience too
is very interested in thatcomponent of it and really
trying to figure out forthemselves how to remove these
blockages and really whateverworks along the way.
So can you and I know this isextremely hard to do in a short
period of time but explain alittle bit about the process?
(42:42):
I mean, I think that they'regoing to have to look into this
at a much deeper level, ofcourse, so this is always the
tough part, yeah yeah.
Ramsay Taum (42:51):
It doesn't involve prayer, it doesn't involve
meditation and one being thesending of the message.
That's the prayer andmeditation, receiving the
message, the response, right.
So many people sometimes getthat mixed up, but it does
involve that.
But what you're praying for andwhat you're listening for is
(43:15):
also important as well, and sothe Hoʻoponopono process is
really about acknowledging thisinternal relationship and so the
ancestral practice that wasupdated for us to use in
contemporary time by a kahunala' human mind, a single mind,
(43:36):
may have three parts to thatmind.
We call it a triune family, andanytime we're in dis-ease,
(44:05):
disorder, it's because one ofthose minds are out of order.
One of those minds are out oforder.
So I like to say, when you arein alignment mind, body and
spirit you are now mind fullbecause you're complete, you're
whole.
It's when you are physically indis-ease or mentally in
disorder, that's when you cansay you are mindless, you're out
(44:29):
of your mind.
You can say you are mindless,you're out of your mind.
So what we want to do is getback into that mind, and the
process allows us to do that, toget back to one mind, a
singular mind, and in your fieldit might be called integration.
Right, we integrate, but wedon't just integrate internally.
That integration now allows usto incorporate as well as
(44:55):
integrate with everything aroundus.
So I'm much more in a line withthe spirit, with the trees,
with the people around me,because I'm no longer
self-centered, I'm just centeredin self.
Self-centered, I'm justcentered in self.
(45:16):
And once I can achieve that, Ican now begin to interact and
relate to people in a differentway and it becomes less
transactional and much morerelational.
So the process asks us, orhelps us, to actually get to
that level of communicating withthat grand mediator and begin
to remove those memories.
(45:38):
So that's what that would be.
So if you saw people doing theprocess, it would look like
they're sleeping, becausethey're really.
It's an internal and as much asI might facilitate it by reading
the prayer or reading themeditation to them, it's really
an inside job.
So I really teach them, asAuntie Morna asked, to really do
(46:02):
it for themselves.
I don't really do groupcleansings where people come.
My preference is to teachpeople how to do that.
The last thing you want to do,that.
The next thing, last thing youwant to do is create a
codependency right.
It's really about empoweringpeople to do their own cleansing
with their own family, withtheir own colleagues, with their
(46:22):
own world around them.
So if people wanted to do it, Iwould recommend that, you know,
they look into a class orhaving someone like myself share
that and teach that.
Once they go through theexperience and continue
practicing it, then they becometheir own healer, as they should
be anyway.
Dr. Michele Burklund (46:44):
Exactly so .
Are you still offeringone-on-one teachings right now?
I know you're kind of on alarger scale and you're teaching
this and giving a lot ofspeeches kind of around the
globe on these practices, butare you still working one-on-one
or in a different way?
Ramsay Taum (47:04):
to teach people then yeah, thank you, I am, and
because, of course, it's atimely undertaking.
It's not something you justjump in and take a Tylenol and
feel better tomorrow, so itrequires time, and so if people
are willing to do that, I alsolike it to do it in small groups
(47:24):
, preferably groups that arerelated, because it's their
relationship that you're tryingto heal or that you'd like to
help them heal.
So if a individual wants to dothat, they can coordinate that
and then we can work with them,or I can come to them or we can
do something.
My preference is to do it inperson because I think there's
(47:46):
energy as much as I do also doit online, but I find that
whoever's in the room willdetermine the outcome of what's
coming out.
It's always the same, but it'salways different Meaning.
The content is there, but itwill find its way into the room
and reveal itself depending onwho's present and what the
(48:07):
issues are.
As long as I can get out of theway and let it come through me
rather than from me, if thatmakes any sense, I can be in
different rooms and people willget different things, but I
really said the same thing ineach room, but oftentimes the
story that comes out that helpsthem to relate to their issue or
(48:28):
their concern, maybe completelydifferent from the last room
because the people in the roomare different, and so I like to
say that this is your healing.
This is the individual'sindividual practice.
Consequently, it's customizedfor them in that way.
So one-on-ones are helpful,especially with people really
(48:53):
want to delve into a deepunderstanding rather than just
learn the mechanics.
I I just don't like teachingmechanics.
I really want to share themeaning, and once people find
deeper meaning, then I thinkthey find it easier to embrace
and do on a regular basis or asthey need to right, which I
(49:15):
think is important.
Ho'oponopono is a way of beingit's.
It's a when you're on default.
The default mode is I'm sorry,right, or let's make this right,
rather than allowing it tofester or turning away from it.
So, in that way, ho'oponoponois a way of being my default
(49:40):
practice.
If I can live a life of pono,do the right thing all the time,
but we have a frailty.
Sometimes we miss it.
Well, I always haveHo'oponopono there.
Dr. Michele Burklund (49:51):
And so how do you like?
So, basically, what you'resaying is like, with this, it's
your you're just, your awarenesshas changed.
You're always aware of kind ofhow you are in the world and and
if there's an imbalance, youcan utilize this to rebalance it
and so like for for you in yourdaily life.
How do you, how do you use thisfor you in your daily life?
(50:15):
How do you, how do you use this?
Do you take time and set asideevery day to do the practice, or
is it more?
You can utilize this throughoutthe day as it comes and and
kind of continue on that way?
Ramsay Taum (50:26):
Thank you for that.
My process has evolved becauseit's really a relationship that
I now have with myself, but alsowith this, with the spiritual
guide, if you would, with divine.
So anytime I feel or sense likethe movie, the force is off
(50:47):
right, I feel a movement in theforce.
There are ways of going rightinto that and dealing with it,
including putting up shields ofsome kind.
So once I start feeling thatnegative energy beginning to be
move in, I can now put up ashield necessary to deal with it
, get into a place and begin torespond.
Equally important, it says whatis it about me?
(51:12):
What, what, what did I justthink?
Or what just came up thatattracted that?
Or why did what you showed mebother me?
Rather than trying to avoid theperson, have to ask myself why
was I bothered by what they justsaid?
Now, this isn't about takingblame.
This is about being aware,aware.
So, before I react to whatsomeone is saying, my question
(51:36):
is why am I reacting right?
Why am I placing so much valueand importance on that word, on
what that person, a completestranger, has said to me?
Why have I given that so muchpower that I'm I'm starting to
cry or that I'm starting to runor that I'm laughing?
Whatever my reaction is, can itbe a response that is now
(51:59):
chosen rather than a reactionthat is a conditioned behavior?
So this is the differencebetween conditioned responses
and informed choices.
So when I become more aware ofthat, anytime something is said,
done or I experience is reallya lesson for me.
(52:19):
So any patient that I have or aclient that have is really
becoming the teacher and I'm thestudent.
It really flips everything tocome from a place of humility
that says it's a little arrogantfor me to think that they're
coming to me to see that, to fixthem.
Why so, if I have 10 patients,they come in all with left
(52:42):
shoulder problems.
I start looking at my shoulderand I thank each of them for
showing me the problem I need towork on today.
Well, next week I have peoplewith right knees coming in.
So now I start looking at myright knee problem, which is a
directional thing.
It's about flexibility, it'sabout moving towards the future.
Right, that's what my rightknee represents, where my left
(53:04):
shoulder is carrying ancestralweight of carrying things that
really aren't mine to carryright.
But it's the patients that come.
The clients that come withtheir issues are really the
teachers that are now helping memove through the process.
So this is gratitude.
Thank you for showing me yourproblem.
Thank you for showing me thisillness, because it subscribes
(53:27):
to this belief that if I see thesplinter in your eye, it
probably came from the log inmine.
That's the only way I canrecognize it, because what's
coming out from you is somewherein me which then says that I'm
just a mirror, as you are amirror to me.
The reflection.
Dr. Michele Burklund (53:53):
So if I don't like what I'm seeing
outside, I have to ask myselfwhat did I just put in front of
the mirror?
Ramsay Taum (53:58):
And if I want to see something better, reflect
back that I need to ask myselfwhat did I just put in front of
the mirror?
And if I want to see somethingbetter, reflect the fact that I
need to reflect somethingdifferent.
Again, it's not about blame,but it's about programming.
Our memory is that this camefrom our ancestors, this came
from, and that could beyesterday Time.
As far as we're concerned, timeis continuing.
(54:18):
So when we refer to ourancestors, it's not someone five
generations ago.
It could be your mother, itcould be your teacher, right,
who in sixth grade called youstupid, right?
That ancestor planted a seed inyour mind.
Dr. Michele Burklund (54:35):
Right.
Ramsay Taum (54:36):
So we don't lock in on ancestors being a DNA
ancestor, spiritual one as wellas a physical one.
Anyone that had an influence onyou in the past is an ancestor.
Dr. Michele Burklund (54:49):
Okay, yeah , I mean, that makes sense too,
especially in this life, and howthings are influenced.
Ramsay Taum (54:57):
That's right.
That's right, yeah, so that's,that's part of it.
And once I can get to that andI live that way, I can process
that in a much more quick,quicker way, because it's kind
of like having a filter.
Oh, I'm not sure that's anydifferent technologically when
you put a an anti-virus filteron your computer, stuff is
(55:23):
coming in all the time butsomething's catching it right
hopefully ho'oponopono is kindof like that.
There's a way of developing thisfilter that begins to redirect
viruses of emotion, of anger, offear and pain, and kind of
reprocesses it so they candefine it in a different way.
(55:44):
And you see it for what it is amemory, don't get me wrong.
There are people out there whoare just knuckleheads.
Right, they behave in a waythat is bothersome.
There's they behave in a waythat might be hurtful.
Well, even there, the questionis what is it about me that
keeps attracting that behavior?
But what is it about me thatthinks I can change that
(56:07):
behavior?
therefore, put myself in theposition to do that right so
this isn't about changing otherpeople, which some people want
to use Ho'oponopono for.
I want to change my wife.
I want to change my husband.
He needs to be doing this right.
So, really, ho'oponopono sayswhat is it about me that keeps
allowing me to be in this space,that I continually see this?
(56:29):
Because other people aren't inthis space, they're not seeing
it, they're not bothered by it.
So there's something about me.
And how do I begin to adjust tothat?
And, oddly enough, when thathappens, these knuckleheads can
go be somebody else'sknucklehead.
I was in here to healknuckleheads but oddly enough,
(56:50):
if I shift my perspective andbehavior, they may no longer see
that in me and they no longerneed to be a knucklehead.
So to the external world itlooks like I just healed a
knucklehead, but in reality Icleaned myself up and I removed
that thing for them to betriggered by thus shifting their
(57:11):
behavior.
So this is where, in thestories that people hear about
of a psychologist going into ahospital and healing everybody,
I happen to know him, I knew himand I knew the story.
And the real behavior was thathe changed the way he behaved
and responded to the patientsand, as a result, they were no
(57:31):
longer being triggered by hisbehavior, his beliefs and et
cetera.
So anytime he walked into theroom they were fine.
So to everyone else they werehealed and to him they were
healed, but in reality when heleft the room they were the same
people.
So if someone came in with thatsame behavior they would get
agitated again.
So we have to be very carefulabout the narratives and the
(57:55):
stories we believe and hear anddig a little deeper.
And in this case thatparticular individual, that
physician, was able to look athimself, adjust himself so that
he no longer triggered othersand they then appeared to be
healed.
He healed their relationship.
He didn't change them, hechanged himself.
(58:18):
That's a very powerful.
Dr. Michele Burklund (58:21):
Yeah, that's really where the power is
is being able to heal yourselfand get in there.
And to me at least, how I kindof view medicine and illness is
that it's an imbalance, and alot of it has to do with emotion
, right, the core of it isperception and how you see
things, and then it can go intodifferent realms and then go
(58:42):
deeper and become physical andstay in the body and so, um,
knowing something like this, tobe able to remove it and to go
in and to give somebody thatinstruction and have that tool,
I think is huge.
So I think this is this is anamazing practice to do for sure.
Ramsay Taum (59:05):
Yeah, and I see it's been in my experience with
an individual can actually ownit, can actually own it.
They can now let it go as longas it's somebody else's they can
.
And we've done this now withchronic pain groups and these
are individuals 10, 15 years ofpain medication, a whole number
(59:31):
of other things not going towork, et cetera.
You have complete turnaroundsoff medications, back at work, a
number of things.
Simply by going through theprocess Maybe I shouldn't say
simply, but by adopting thepractice and beginning to really
remove these questions.
I asked the group after theyshared their pain with one
(59:55):
another tell everybody aboutyour pain and how you got it,
and et cetera, et cetera.
Well, once they're done, Iasked them okay, who wants to
exchange pains?
Nobody wanted to exchange pains.
I said I don't want his pain, Ilike my pain.
And then I proceeded to askthem to point to their bodies
where they were experiencing thepain or where the pain was.
And inevitably people pointedsomewhere in their leg, their
(01:00:20):
head, their back or the chest.
But here's what happened Noneof them pointed at me, none of
them pointed to the next person,nobody pointed outside of
themselves, they all pointedinside themselves and it was in
that moment that everyone had arecognition that it's an inside
job technician or the x-raymachine none of those things,
(01:00:59):
until you decide.
And it was at that moment thatmany of them were able to start
moving towards preferred healthagain, because they realized
they were holding on to it forwhatever reason.
It's their pain because thatwas their new identity.
They needed that pain becauseit allowed them to maintain
their lawsuit.
They needed the pain becausethey wanted to stay angry,
because they couldn't find a wayto find peace with the person
that made them angry.
(01:01:19):
The pain is what the one thingthat they could hold on to that
nobody could take from them.
It was theirs.
And the minute they recognizedthat and they could go back and
say, well, this pain comes froma childhood experience or
something my grandmother said,or my great-great-grandfather
told my grandmother, who told meit's not even mine.
(01:01:40):
Wow, Okay, now I can let it go.
So this is where ancestraltrauma really becomes something
that we can address.
That's addressed by this whenyou realize it's not ancestral,
it's yours, it's now, it's righthere.
It may have happened to yourancestors, but you're living it
now, so don't blame yourancestors anymore.
Take responsibility for it hereand wow, it's amazing the things
(01:02:03):
that shift when that happens.
But again, it's all an insidejob.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:02:08):
Right.
Ramsay Taum (01:02:09):
Anyways, sorry, you got me, am I?
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:02:12):
so buff.
No, I think that's importantand huge for our audience too,
because that's the biggest partis recognizing that and giving
them the power back.
And when you have those momentsof the reason why you're really
holding on to things, yeah, Ithink a lot of amazing things
can happen.
Ramsay Taum (01:02:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:02:32):
Well.
Ramsay Taum (01:02:32):
I hope that's helpful.
Yeah, yeah, okay, well, I, Ihope that's helpful and you know
um to your point yes, I I amavailable and um, we have a
process by by which we addressquestions and that you know, and
opportunities.
But thank you for thisopportunity yeah, thank you too.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:02:50):
I have one more question that I want to
ask you, and then then we canclose out, but I wanted you to
tell us a little bit about themeaning do with letting go of
your mind right and findingsource to get rid of all these
(01:03:17):
thoughts and different thingsthat are that can guide you in a
different direction.
So I want to hear a little bitabout that, and then then we'll
be sure to let everybody knowwhere they can find you and send
the links and everybody to thispodcast too.
Ramsay Taum (01:03:31):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, so the term is na'awao,so N-A-O-K-I-N-A-A-U-A-O, all
right.
So in Hawaiian it's a spirituallanguage.
I'm not just communicating, butI'm communing.
So when you utter the sounds,you're calling upon a spiritual
(01:03:55):
element.
And in the word Na'awao there'selements of fire, god, heat,
light and foundation and base.
So A is fire, heat, light, god,the sun, like Ra, la A Yahweh.
Then there's O, which is anearth energy, a more
foundational.
When we say O A Yahweh, thenthere's O, which is an earth
(01:04:16):
energy, a more foundational.
When we say O-O is to dig,ma-na-o is the foundation of
one's thoughts, po-o is yourhead, so O is a foundation.
As in Ho-O-Pono-Pono, all Os.
It's all about getting back tothe basics and the foundation.
Well, na-oawao is the notion ofan intuition, an inner knowing,
(01:04:41):
an inner knowledge.
We can also say no'ono, anawareness, but na'awao, and
there's two or three root wordsin it.
So na'ao.
Na'ao is the concept ofintestines, like your intestinal
fortitude, but your intestineis your gut.
So oftentimes in behavior it'slike well, go with your gut,
(01:05:05):
right, not with your head.
And we now know medicine andscience is telling us that, yes,
that the microbiomes in ourguts right is actually maybe the
first brain that's affectingthe second brain.
It's interesting how ourancestors kind of recognize this
.
But what?
What does your na'au say?
What does your gut tell you?
So that is like a uh, likeanother mind.
(01:05:30):
The word na means plural, as inmore.
Is that positive, active energyin manna?
Right?
So that is active.
It's a plural na Au.
A-u is a reference to me, as inI am right, the little I, I am
(01:05:54):
humbled.
Au you.
But in the spiritual referencedefinition of ao refers to your
relationship to god.
A you.
When you say oh, you'reacknowledging that you are a
product, you are inside of thatlarger mind, oh Ao.
So when you say na ao, whichtalks about intestines, if you
(01:06:18):
look at the intestines it lookslike a big brain, Right?
Na ao says the plural mind, theplural relationship, meaning
the multi rather than thesingular.
So many minds, right?
(01:06:38):
So now is your gut?
What does your mind say?
What is your gut telling you?
What are your thoughts?
Where are they coming from?
So many thoughts.
And it's interesting if yousubscribe to the idea that we
are what we eat, right?
What we eat mentally, physicallyand spiritually.
So everything you eat has itsown mind or affects your own
(01:07:03):
thoughts, including whoever wasfeeding you or whoever planted
that plant or killed that animalor raised that animal.
Their energy, their mana, theirthoughts are in that.
So if you eat that withoutcleansing it and removing it,
that is now in you, in yourintestines, and absorption is
what your intestines do.
(01:07:23):
So you're absorbing all thatmana, that energy, that memory.
See how that works.
So the last word in there is eoor ao.
Ao fire, o ground.
Ao is also the term for light.
So we say from po darkness toao eo light.
(01:07:48):
Ao is light or enlightenment.
Ao with a little okina is theword for education, awareness.
Na'awau is the education,awareness and the knowledge that
comes from your gut.
So that's it and it speaks tointuition.
(01:08:09):
It's your inner knowing,knowing things that you know but
were never taught, recognizingthat your body understands
better than your mind itself.
So your conscious mind may notunderstand what your body needs
(01:08:30):
to stay in balance and inharmony, but your na'au, through
na'au, your na'awau knowsbecause it's been enlightened,
it's been educated.
So na'awau is that, it's thisdeeper understanding and
awareness.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:08:49):
Right, and I think there's a lot of power
there.
It's so interesting that thelanguage too, every word, has
such a deeper meaning, andespecially when they're combined
, I mean there's it's verycarefully chosen and organized
and much different.
I think then the Englishlanguage in that sense too.
Ramsay Taum (01:09:08):
And it's very fractal, right Cause it can take
a single single beam of lightbut run it through the right
crystal A single crystalreceiving a single light source
of light but casting many colorsin the room.
That's how the Hawaiian mindand the Hawaiian principle
operates.
(01:09:28):
From it's fractal, so,depending on where I'm standing
and who I'm with, I may see itcompletely differently because
of how the light is beingrefracted by the person that's
next to me, right?
right and so, yeah, that goes.
It goes to emotions, and so itsays to be mindful of who you're
(01:09:49):
with right, to be mindful ofwho you're carrying in your mind
and in your heart, because theyare all influencing how you're
seeing the light.
So I'm a fractal being right allright and everything I'm
experiencing is coming through afractal now, at some point in
time.
How do I integrate all of thatto a single light?
Or am I able to begin toseparate, disintegrate that
(01:10:13):
light and begin to see the valuein each vibration that I'm
experiencing with the person tomy left and the person on my
right, that together we cancreate light.
Separate we create darkness.
That's the concept.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:10:40):
Yeah, it's a very beautiful language with
a lot of depth in it, and itreminds me, because I'm in
greece right now the greeklanguage has a lot of really
intense origins, where it hasthat deeper meaning behind each
word, where the symbolism andthe the pronouncement of the
words and the combinations allhave different energy
frequencies too.
Ramsay Taum (01:10:57):
There's a lot of real power.
If energy has a name, I thinkwe want to call it the right
thing if you want to invite itinto you, right?
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:11:08):
Exactly.
Ramsay Taum (01:11:09):
Same way that if I pronounce someone's name
incorrectly, they don't answerme right.
So if I'm going to invokesomething, I should probably
know what its name is orpronounce it properly, if
anything, out of respect.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:11:23):
Right right.
Ramsay Taum (01:11:24):
But if I recognize that I used the wrong tone with
it, I either turn it on or Iturn it off, or I turn it off,
and we now can see that, aswe've created technologies that
allow us to experience voiceactivated, right Type of
(01:11:46):
technology.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:11:46):
Well, if you say it wrong and doesn't
hear you, it won't turn on.
Ramsay Taum (01:11:49):
So you have to be very clear.
So it's not the human mind anymore powerful than the thing
that we created called acomputer.
I think we've distancedourselves from our true capacity
and, at the end of the day, itcomes down to respect.
Can I respect each person, eachthing, each animal, each tree?
(01:12:11):
Can I respect it in such a waythat it responds when I commune
with it properly?
Now, communing andcommunicating are two different
things.
Communing is being present.
Communicating is imposing mythought, because I wasn't able
to convey that just my by mypresence, and so that's part of
(01:12:34):
why the language was designed orevolved the way it did, at
least for us, because it nowallows me to commune with
something, not just convey anidea to it.
Right, or impose upon it mywishes or desires, like, for
instance, I'm not sure there'sso many redwood trees that grew
(01:12:56):
up that want to be furniture.
Right, we might see thefurniture in the redwood tree,
but the redwood tree never sawitself as a piece of wood that
you're gonna a piece of lumber.
It's a tree.
We oppose upon nature, thingsand people, our desires upon
them, and when they don't liveup to that expectation, then we
(01:13:19):
get angry with them.
Right?
That anger then becomes anillness within us which we're
spreading to others.
So this is a full circle.
It comes all the way back towhat we're believing.
What is it I, how I treatothers, I'm teaching them how to
treat me by the way I treatthem right.
And all of that comes from me.
(01:13:40):
It's a memory inside of me.
So what is it about me thatallows me to behave this way
when I'm around you?
That's the thing.
And so that all comes back to aspiritual principle the words we
use, the thoughts we have, theemotions we carry.
So I I can close it with thisuh, the elder kupuna that was my
(01:14:01):
mentor.
She would say that the seeds ofthought is given life on the
life giving breath of ha whichcomes from your heart and your
lungs.
So be careful of what you think, what you feel, but more
(01:14:26):
importantly, what you say,because you're giving it life
the minute you open your mouth.
Guard your thoughts, guard yourfeelings, but above all, guard
your words, for we manifest thatand once it leaves our mouth,
once it comes from our teeth, Ican't get it back.
Fortunately we haveHo'oponopono to heal that
(01:14:47):
relationship.
But it's better to be pono andHo'opono.
So things are pono, pono to bepono and ho'opono.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:15:00):
So things are pono, pono, right.
Well, I think that was superpowerful today, and I'm sure a
lot of our listeners are goingto seek you out to learn a lot
more about this practice and toreally go deeper in themselves
too, and I'm definitely going todig deeper into this myself as
well.
Ramsay Taum (01:15:18):
Thank you Well.
I appreciate the opportunity.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:15:19):
Thanks for the inquiry.
Thank you very much Okay, thankyou.
Ramsay Taum (01:15:25):
All right.
Welcome to the podcast Medicine Untold and
come with me on a journey tothe unexplored side of medicine,
where we speak with rebeldoctors, radical herbalists,
unorthodox healers and patientswho have healed themselves.
Explore the intersectionbetween science and spirituality
and discover the power withinyou.
(00:26):
I'm your host, dr MichelleBirkland, licensed naturopathic
doctor, botanical alchemist andpracticing physician.
Welcome everyone today.
Today, we have Ramsey Tom withus, so welcome.
I'm so excited you're here.
Ramsay Taum (00:47):
Aloha.
Thank you for having me.
Dr. Michele Burklund (00:49):
And I'm going to read a little bit about
your background to introduceyou, and we'll go deeper into
that in a little bit.
So Ramsey Taum is a recognizedcultural resource and
sought-after keynote speaker,lecturer, trainer and
facilitator.
He's been trained by respectedHawaiian elders and is a
practitioner and instructor ofseveral Hawaiian practices,
including Ho'oponopono, inaddition to others.
(01:13):
He is also the founder andpresident of the Hawaii-based
Life Enhancement Institute ofthe Pacific LLC, the director of
the Pacific Islands LeadershipInstitute at Hawaii Pacific
University and culturalsustainability planner at PBR
Hawaii and Associates.
Ramsey effectively integratesplace-based, cultural-based
(01:35):
indigenous and native Hawaiiancultural values and principles
into contemporary business.
So thank you so much.
That was a very impressivebackground too.
Ramsay Taum (01:47):
Oh well, thank you, Appreciate it.
I'm tired just listening to it.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:53):
So, to get started, can you kind of tell
our audience a bit about yourbackground and how you came into
this and into teaching thesepractices and how it found you
kind of on your journey too?
Ramsay Taum (02:06):
Yeah, I think that last statement is probably truer
than anything else.
It found me and actuallyanytime I tried to step away
from it, thinking I was going tofollow another path, things
happened, so I ended up gettingpulled back into it.
So rather than fight it, youknow, I just continued on the
(02:30):
flow.
I was born and raised in Hawaiiand my ancestors come from both
Hawaii the islands as well asfrom the east the Chinese
ancestry.
But I'd like to say I'm 100%part Hawaiian.
My cultural upbringingfundamentally has been in what
(02:52):
we say kanaka maoli, theHawaiian culture.
I say that because Hawaiian isactually a nationality and not
so much an ethnicity, the rootedculture we refer to as Kanaka
Maoli, the native people ofthese lands.
So, with that upbringing andreally been immersed in various
(03:20):
components of the culturealthough I was raised in the
American culture because, ofcourse, the United States and
the state of Hawaii representthat frame and that concept but
deep underneath all that is thekanakamole Hawaiian culture, and
(03:42):
I was fortunate that I hadgrandmothers that lived that way
.
They lived the culture in theirbeing.
And then I also attendedKamehameha Schools, a school
that was created for NativeHawaiian children by the
Princess Bernice Pohi Bishop sothat we would have a good
(04:04):
education, native Hawaiianchildren by the Princess Bernice
Pohi Bishop so that we wouldhave a good education.
And it was during these timesand this upbringing that we
began to see that, while we'retrying, the community was trying
to get us to assimilate right,there were parts of our culture
(04:29):
that were staying alive, beingpracticed and maintained by
particular families, particularelders kupuna as we require, as
I would say.
And so I was fortunate at somepoint in time to uh be engaged
with it, and they saw that I hadan empty coconut that needed to
be filled and they proceeded todo that, more so because I was
(04:49):
probably the last man standing.
Everyone else went out to playand I was still in the room with
them and I was close enough forthem to grab, and they grabbed
me, which I'm so grateful thatthey did.
But it was really a reciprocityagreement unspoken by being
(05:14):
there in service to them, whichis part of our practice, caring
for our elders.
I had the good fortune oflearning from them, not so much
that they were specificallyteaching, but sharing, and I
think that kind of leads intoyour other question about how I
got into the teaching component.
I really don't consider itteaching, but really sharing and
(05:36):
, as a result, hopefully peoplelearn things.
And so it was that traditionand eventually it led to the
work that I'm doing today.
Dr. Michele Burklun (05:48):
Interesting .
So it kind of started with theelders.
You were around with yourgrandparents and then you met
different elders kind of on yourjourney.
But it wasn't officialtrainings, it's more like you
aligned with them and thenlearned from them yeah, there
(06:10):
was always an interest there.
Ramsay Taum (06:11):
But you see, um, I grew up at a time when hawaii
was just becoming a state 1959,1960, that period so there was a
concerted effort really to moveaway from, or not highlight,
hawaiian culture.
Actually, my grandmothers comefrom a time where they didn't
(06:31):
want their children, my parentsor that generation, to speak the
language or to even considerthat it was about becoming part
of the American fabric of things.
Consider that it was aboutbecoming part of the American
fabric of things.
So, even the language Icouldn't listen to the language
unless I was hiding outside.
(06:52):
I could hear my grandmother'sto her friends, but the minute I
walked into the room they wouldquickly revert to English, and
so it was a difficult time forthe culture because it was a
time when it was illegal tospeak the language.
It wasn't until 1978 that webegan to see the revival of some
(07:16):
of these cultural practices thepractice of Lomi Aha, which is
part of the Hawaiian battle artsystem, l lua system.
Even that was hidden for awhile.
Um, the hula most people knewabout the hula.
That had been revived early,but more so because of the
(07:37):
visitor and tourism industry.
It was more for entertainmentthan it was for cultural
transfer of knowledge andcommuning with nature, which is
really an underlying principlebehind that practice, the battle
system of Lua, which I'm also apractitioner of.
Similarly, we thought many of usdidn't even know it existed.
(07:58):
We thought it had been lost totime and antiquity, but
fortunately there are someparents uh, families, I should
say that maintained it.
And then, ho'oponopono, thispractice of making right and
putting things into proper order, um, similarly, was being
taught by certain individualsand families, really more as an
(08:20):
internal family mediationprocess which brings about
healing at many levels physical,mental, spiritual.
But all of our practices wereconsidered taboo things that you
just didn't talk about.
So it wasn't until I beganmeeting and being around these
(08:46):
kupuna, these elders, that Ibegan to see that it was still
very much alive, that we aren'ta dead culture, something you
see in the museum.
We are a living culture, whichwas very important to us and to
myself to help not only restoreit, revive it, but to make sure
we perpetuate it.
(09:06):
So this entered into manyplaces in the world of business,
in the world of legislation andpolicymaking, to make it really
part of our daily life.
So culture isn't something youdo on weekends, honey.
I'm going to do my culturething and I'll be back tomorrow.
Right, if culture is what it is, it's part of our life, it's
(09:31):
living, then it should beintegrated in our daily
practices and to a certainextent, ho'oponopono is that
it's a way of being, the processand practice of lua.
It's also a way of being, asmuch as it's, a combat battle
system.
The principles, the values, uh,the intentions, are things that
(09:52):
you live on a day-to-day basis,and with that comes health,
prosperity, happiness and allthese other things.
So, but by being around them, Iwas able to see it and
experience it and, as I said,they saw something within me
that they felt confident enoughto share it with me so that I
(10:12):
could then turn around and shareit with others later.
And so I'm sitting here reallyappreciating the fact there are
numerous elders, appreciatingthe fact there are numerous
elders I would say between 10and 15 that at some point in
time came into my life or I intotheirs and they began to share.
If I stop at 10, mind you,there were a few more.
(10:36):
I would suggest all of themwere in their 80s or older,
which means the accumulation ofall that information was about
800 years of experience.
So I had the fortune of beingaround that and around
individuals who had reallysucceeded as far as the external
(10:58):
parts of their lives.
So they were really in what theMaslow talked about that
self-actualization stage, werereally in what the maslow talked
about, that self-actualizationstage, and so to be around them
at a time when they're willingto share was quite important.
So I I call it fortune as muchas it was just opportunity.
so I can say I didn't anticipateor vision being where I'm at
(11:21):
today here talking to you aboutthese things, but it was just a
matter of course and being inthe right place at the right
time.
Dr. Michele Burklund (11:30):
Yeah, or your energy, attracting their
energy and them, kind ofchoosing you and you choosing
them definitely for thisexperience and sharing this
knowledge to a larger group,which I think is pretty amazing
that you can do now also, andgetting that knowledge and that
(11:52):
sacred information out to peoplein a way that we can understand
it and and cherish it in thatway, too, is is pretty amazing
seen.
Ramsay Taum (12:01):
Well, like I said, I I am grateful because in
hindsight, when I look back um,I'm seeing now where, early on
um there are downloads, thereare things that are happening,
um little things are positioningand putting me on a trajectory
(12:21):
to do these kinds of things.
It wasn't a conscious, but itwas a flow, right, staying in
that flow.
So I can go back and look andsay, wow, you know this is not
what I intended, but I guess itis.
You end up where you end up.
Exactly.
(12:42):
So it's been quite a journey.
You end up and so it's.
It's been quite a journey.
It's not over yet and continueto, you know invite other
companions along the way when wecan.
Dr. Michele Burklund (12:58):
Right, and can you tell us a little bit
more?
So I was listening to youexplain different theories about
Hawaiian culture and andthere's there's a lot of depth,
that I know a lot of discussionbetween these, but I wanted to
hear a little bit about how youdescribe the term mana and like
and what that means in Hawaiianand Hawaiian culture and kind of
set the stage for that, sopeople can understand the
(13:22):
essence kind of behind it.
Ramsay Taum (13:24):
Sure, you know I'll start broad and come in.
I mean, in biblical storiesthey talk about the tribe of
people walking across the desertright being fed by manna, the
gift of God, life energy, thisfood.
Well, the concept of man, mana,is not so different M-A-N-A.
(13:47):
Mana is this notion of lifeforce, life energy that's in all
things, it's in us.
The Chinese might refer to itas chi, the Japanese might refer
to it as ki, others prana,basically, basically, that life
force, energy that is in allthings.
And so mana is a big part ofthe understanding of health, but
(14:15):
also of life at large.
When we talk about electricity,the power that runs through and
runs all things, in terms ofmachines, mana is kind of like
that it's in all things and itruns all things.
In terms of machines, mana iskind of like that it's in all
things and it runs all things.
So it can be considered.
I like to say the notion thatone is in and one is out.
(14:37):
It's a balance.
Ma is the feminine nature, orthe negative polarity, while na
is the masculine, or positivepolarity, and the interchange of
these two energies, soft andhard, in and out, light and dark
, those principles of yin yang.
They're constantly in movement,they're in play, so there's
(15:00):
never more than one or the other, but they're always in exchange
.
So you're looking forequilibrium, not equality.
So sometimes you're more ma,sometimes you're more na, and if
you're living with health inmind and proper balance that is
(15:22):
always going back and forth andthat revealed in your health and
your thoughts and yourbehaviors and practices, like
that, um and it's.
It can be inherited, butthere's also something that's
within you.
I mean, it's already there, butthen it can be generated and
maybe that's a wrong term.
It can be accessed in the sameway that um.
(15:48):
I'm not sure have you ever seenan image of a fish spouting
water?
So the fish isn't creating thewater, right, the fish is
accessing water around itthrough his gills and spitting
the water out.
Omana is similar.
We're in mana, we're swimming,it's all around us, it's in us,
(16:11):
but it's also all around us, andso it's a misnomer to think
that we're generating mana anymore than we're generating air.
We're in the air, oxygen.
You can either accept it or not.
(16:33):
So you access the air, theoxygen, and similarly access the
manna.
Now, depending on how well youare accessing it, you have more
or less of it, and when you'rein dis-ease and disorder and
illness, you could say that youare low in manna.
By eating the right foods,doing the right movements and
(16:54):
exercises, you begin to improvethe system's ability to access
as well as distribute that manna.
So it is something that'saccessible to all and we tend to
make it very mystical, but inreality it's just part of who we
are.
It's what helps our hair growand our eyes blink and our
(17:16):
hearts move.
It's all part of that, so it'snot separate from us.
Like many people want to makeit.
We have to bring it and go getit, but it's really a part of us
and once we understand that,then we can learn to access it
and recognize it and utilize itbetter and so it's, it's almost
(17:39):
it's.
Dr. Michele Burklund (17:39):
It's keeping the balance somehow too.
So it's not having like anexcess of something or a like
not enough of something, butit's keeping that balance
somehow too.
So it's not having like anexcess of something or a like
not enough of something, butit's keeping that balance and
keeping that flow at a certainrate too, cause if you have, is
there an issue if you have toomuch or too little, or is it?
Is there a like, a negative anda positive when it comes to
(18:01):
that energy, or is it?
Ramsay Taum (18:07):
negative and a positive when it comes to that
energy, or is it yeah, yeah, umagain, if we look at it from
that standpoint, as polaritiesmy one soft, one hard, one
negative polarity, one positivepolarity and that's neither good
or bad, that's a.
That's the way we place weighton those terms, right right
right but one is receiving andone is giving so much like the
(18:30):
parasympathetic sympatheticsystem.
When that's out of balance ifyou're not sleeping enough,
you're always up something'sgoing to occur your adrenals are
going to burn out, you know.
So those are probably good waysof looking at them in the
contemporary space is that yourparasympathetic, sympathetic
(18:50):
system is needs to be in balanceso that you can amp and run
when you need to, or you can sitand relax when you need to, and
the more you have the abilityto control that and manage that
consciously, then you'reprobably in a much better
position to manage and maintainyour health.
(19:12):
Many of us, however, aren'taware of that Right, so we fall
victim not to anything elseexternal, but to an internal
inability to manage and know ourplace, which is our home, where
we live right, right, and it'sodd because we, we should be
living here, and yet whenthere's a disorder or disease,
(19:36):
we leave here to go somewhereoutside, to someone who lives
outside to tell us what's goingon inside right, right, yeah
which is kind of awkward, right.
So I'm going to my neighbor'shouse to find out how to clean
my own.
It just doesn't.
There's a disconnect.
So money is like that.
(19:56):
So I like to say, um, in thisworld today, it's how to
monetize versus just monetize.
Dr. Michele Burklund (20:03):
I like that.
I like that.
I mean I think, like thedefinition I always use for
health, is balance right?
It's not.
It's always keeping everythingin alignment and balance.
The same thing, kind of, withfinding peace rather than
happiness or avoiding sadness.
Ramsay Taum (20:21):
It's staying in the middle, or staying in the
middle of the circle, keepingthe balance with everything,
staying in the middle or stayedin the middle of the circle,
keeping the balance witheverything?
Yeah, and I think you canextend that to, uh, the notion
of harmony, uh, which isn'tnecessarily balanced from, I
think, the traditional sense ofthere's five on one side of the
equation and five on the other.
Right, that's the way I thinkmost people look at balance, at
(20:44):
least in the western principle.
Uh, because balance is you havefive and I have five, you have
ten and I.
That's equality.
But we know the body is changingconstantly, right, there's a
temperature fluctuation and thensomething happens to either
bring it back down or meet it.
That's what we talk aboutequilibrium, much like the ocean
(21:08):
, in order for the environmentto be in balance.
The tide comes in and the tidegoes out.
It doesn't just stay in and itdoesn't just stay out.
So there's always a movement,and being in sync and
synchronizing with that movementis harmony, and that's where
balance is.
(21:28):
And if I'm there at the wrongtime, I could be crushed by a
wave.
What's not the wave's fault,right, it's just I did not plan
or prepare myself for thatenergy.
Now, if I bring a surfboard,then I might ride that wave
rather than get crushed.
There's peace and harmony right.
(21:49):
So at that point in time it'sbeing responsive and recognizing
conditions and adjusting andadapting to those conditions
with mindfulness and awareness.
And many of us just have eitherlost or forgotten the practices
and the ability to be aware andto be mine.
(22:10):
So I think more and more of usare waking up to that and I try
to come back to that umbeingness, you know, being
present, being in yourself,being in it.
I like to tell my, tell mystudents, it's all an inside job
.
Dr. Michele Burklund (22:28):
Right, and it really is too.
Yeah, so kind of with that canwe transition, and can you kind
of tell us a little bit moreabout the practice of
Ho'oponopono and what the realmeaning is?
I think, especially today, thatname and the practice is around
(22:52):
quite a bit, but I still thinkthere's a lot of confusion or
somehow the depth gets lost kindof in the mix here.
So I think this is a perfectquestion to kind of ease into
with that.
Ramsay Taum (23:06):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, so the term or the wordis ho'oponopono, so repeat that
with me.
Ho'oponopono right and it's ponois the word for proper, correct
(23:30):
, appropriate integrity, if youwould.
It's a.
It's a larger condition.
The word pono pono refers tothe ability to see or to measure
when things are in proper order, balance and in harmony.
So the example would be openingyour kitchen drawer.
I think most people, at leastin this part of the world, are
(23:53):
familiar that.
Open the kitchen door andthere's a tray and that tray is
where your forks and your spoonsand your knives.
So that helps you to see thateverything is where it's
supposed to be In health.
We look for vital signs heartrate, blood pressure.
When they're in the right placeat the right time, I can
measure it.
We can say, ah, things are pono, pono.
(24:16):
So when things are pono pono,then everything else above that
is pono.
So my forks and spoons andknives are in the right place.
Pono, pono.
That means my kitchen drawer ispono right, okay, so the word
ho'opono means to behavecorrectly.
(24:36):
So after I wash my dishes andhave my meal, I clean, I wash
and I return the utensils to thedrawer the spoons and the
spoons and the forks and theforks and the knives and the
knives.
That's ho'opono.
So when you behave ho'oponoproperly, you will see the
(24:58):
results of your work pono, pono.
And now you know that you arepono.
See the order.
So hoʻopono behavior ismeasured by a pono pono method
and assessed and described aspono.
Pono is the condition that we'reall trying to achieve to be in
proper alignment with the worldaround us the spirit, physical,
(25:24):
mental and emotional and ourrelationships.
That would be pono.
Now, when you find that yourforks and spoons are not in the
right place and everything elsethat's lost, you know your keys
and your license and you findthem scattered about your drawer
, that is what we call pono'ole,the absence of order, or
(25:47):
a'olipono, improper behavior.
So when someone is behavingimproperly, a'olipono, or the
condition is pono'ole, out ofbalance and misaligned, there is
a method now to restore thatalignment, and that method is
called ho'oponopono.
Ho'o is the concept ofcombining, putting things
(26:11):
together, bringing them.
It's an action word.
So anytime you say ho'o beforesomething, you're putting it
into action, as ho'opono isdoing the right thing.
Ho'oponopono means to put itinto proper order.
So ho'oponopono, then, isreally the term for alignment,
(26:34):
the act of putting things intoalignment again, into their
proper place, and to restoreorder.
It is not, however, the idea offixing.
It's about healing, and it'simportant because we live in a
world that really comes out ofan industrial age where we
(26:54):
relied heavily on mechanics andtechnology and technicians to
fix things that are broken.
But the human condition isn't abroken, we're not a thing that
breaks.
We're in dis-ease and disorder.
So a technician, a mechanic,isn't what we need.
We need a healer, a physician,something that helps us inside
(27:18):
out versus outside, in whichwhat which most mechanics do
they're outside the thing andthey work on it, whereas a
proper healer works with youfrom the inside out.
Whether we're changing yourchemical makeup or your mental
thoughts and emotional focus,it's always an inside job
(27:41):
facilitated by someone trainedto do that.
So the Ho'oponopono practice isabout that.
How do you restore alignmentfirst to one's own internal
family, your spiritual, mentaland emotional family within you,
which is what our processrecognizes.
(28:02):
And it's a process, it's notsomething you do to people, it's
not something you do at.
So I'm not going to come in andho'oponopono, you Pull out my
gun and fire my ho'oponoponobullet at you, but it's
something, a practice that eachperson does with guidance from
someone else until they can doit on their own to realign those
(28:27):
things within us.
And once we have an alignmentthere, then we can start
aligning with things elsewhere.
So the process of Ho'oponoponoreally is about aligning to the
one, the one, what, the onecondition, the preferred
condition, proper health, properorder, proper relationships,
(28:49):
etc.
Now Ho'oponopono is also knownas a forgiveness process.
Well, forgiveness just happensto be a process of realigning
broken relationships right or amisunderstanding.
So, once again, at the end ofthe day, ho'oponopono is about
realigning, putting things intoproper order.
(29:10):
Now, when I said it's not fixing, what I mean by it's not just
fixing a problem.
It's actually creating acondition where the problem no
longer exists.
The conditions that the problemrequired required to be a
problem, such asmisunderstanding, right.
Otherwise, all we're doing ismaking a bad thing better, and I
(29:35):
don't think we want a betterbad thing, so we don't want to
throw good after bad hope.
One opponent's about reallycreating a preferred condition.
What does that look like?
So, rather than going to aconference on conflict
resolution and trying to resolvethe conflict by bringing it
into the room and then pushingit out.
(29:56):
It's like bringing an elephantin and trying to spend the rest
of the day pushing it out of theroom.
How do we create a room wherethe elephant doesn't live
anymore?
Right so, rather than focusingon the problem, focusing on the
preferred condition and, as aresult, the whole ponopono
process really begins to removethe criteria or adopt a criteria
(30:17):
that allows you to be in thepreferred place rather than
living better in a bad place.
Does that make sense?
Dr. Michele Burklund (30:29):
right so it's it's fixing within and
going within for everything andsaying where is this out of
alignment, what belief, whatenergy pattern?
And removing that within.
So then it's not a constant,even if it's not that elephant.
It could be another else,that's coming in.
Ramsay Taum (30:48):
Right, that's right .
Yeah, so there's a tendency toto look at the problem as an
external thing, but the realityis, whatever we're feeling is an
internal thing, and so, if I'mhaving an emotional issue, to
place blame on something outsideof us misses the point.
So when we say you make me feelthis way, at the end of the day
(31:11):
I feel this way, but I place itin the responsibility of how I
feel on someone else.
It's taking responsibility, butthis is the way I feel, and I
feel this way because I heardwhat you said or I saw what you
did in a way that it bothers me,right.
So when I take responsibilityfor the fact that I'm making
that decision about how youbehave and how it affects me,
(31:35):
then it really doesn't matterhow you behave, it really
matters on how I translate that.
And where does that come from?
Why do I translate it that way?
It's because of memory,experience, expectations, and so
the whole Pona Pona process isreally about reframing and
removing those memories thatserve as barriers and obstacles
(31:58):
to our moving forward, to ourphysical, mental, spiritual
health, as well as to ourrelationships, and so it is a
spiritual process and not onethat I can consciously go in and
say, okay, I'm no longer goingto do this simply by saying that
, which is what has happened inmany ways because that exercise
(32:24):
I think they call it NLP, right?
There is that notion that if Ispeak it and I resonate with it
mantras, affirmations, mantras,affirmations while much of the
time that does work, perhapstemporarily, if you don't remove
the fundamental memory or thething that's inside you, then
(32:45):
you and I may be able to come toan agreement and forgive one
another, but the issue is stillwithin me, which means the next
person and the person after thatthat triggers me.
We'll get the same amount ofanger, pain that I did with you,
but I just happened to make itright with you.
But I'm going to keep carryingthat with me.
(33:07):
And so this is where some peopleare having difficulty applying
what has become a practice ofsaying certain things like thank
you, I love you, I forgive youor forgive me.
Those are important statements,no question, but they aren't
necessarily cleansing orremoving the internal thought,
(33:29):
emotion or reason for the fearthat I'm feeling, that's
triggered by you every time Isee you or anyone that reminds
me of you.
So maybe an easy way for it isfor your listeners to repeat
these words, and maybe you cando it with me just for fun, just
for tickles.
What is it about me?
(33:51):
Oh, you want me to um.
Dr. Michele Burklund (33:57):
What is it about me, oh?
Ramsay Taum (33:58):
you want me to?
What is it about me that allowsme that?
Dr. Michele Burklund (34:00):
allows me to see in you, to see in you
what bugs me what bugs me aboutyou about you right.
Ramsay Taum (34:09):
So if each of us were, were saying that, were
saying that, what is it about methat's allowing me to see in
you, this person, this condition, what causes me to be bothered
by that?
What is it about me?
What did I bring to thissituation?
That every time I smell, hear,taste, hear, taste, touch, feel
(34:37):
and experience this, that youthem, that I run, I hide, I
freeze there's something aboutme that is triggered by these
things, that causes me to behavea certain way, as in move
across the planet, quit my job,leave my home, right, whatever
that might be, or prevents mefrom really achieving the goals
that I had in my life.
Because of some fear, someanxiety, because it's not those
(34:58):
things.
I had a student come to me andsay Kumu, I have a problem with
her, I have a problem with him,I have a problem with them.
And they proceeded to ask mewhat I thought and my response
was you have a problem.
The common denominator in allof those things for that person
(35:20):
was I have a problem.
In our contemporary space, wewould often say you bug me.
When the Buddha says what is itabout me that allows you to bug
me?
Because that places a greaterability within you to take
(35:40):
responsibility for that, as wellas to release that once you
understand what the process is.
So, to really oversimplify it,it's really a cleansing process
that removes those triggers orsplinters, if you would that are
in us, that get triggered bysomeone's words, behaviors, just
(36:03):
how they look, Because it goesback to an earlier memory that
may be embedded in oursubconscious.
An earlier memory that may beembedded in our subconscious and
perhaps maybe came in with us.
If you subscribe to the conceptof life and rebirth birth and
rebirth then there's a potentialthat many of the things that we
came into this existence withhad already been planted there
(36:25):
to enable us to interact withthe world that we chose to come
into.
If that's the case, interactwith the world that we chose to
come into.
If that's the case, then thereare some things that are there
to help us avoid pain and othersto overcome it.
Some of us, however, areprogrammed more to avoid pain
than overcome it, and that tendsto be a much more fear-based
(36:46):
experience than one of aproactive-based experience, and
much of that comes from thosememories and, of course, by how
we were nurtured around peoplewho were either fear-based or
faith-based.
So sorry, long answer to ashort question.
Dr. Michele Burklund (37:04):
Right.
I mean, I think that'sincredibly powerful and I think
that a lot of my own patientsand people who are listening to
a lot of them, they're recognizetheir triggers or they're say
I'm I know that something'swrong with me, this is
triggering me or this happenedand I need to remove it.
But a lot of people I think arelike okay, how do I remove it
(37:25):
now?
How do I push that button, howdo I take that out, even if I am
aware that it's my trigger andmy issue?
So I think that this practicecould be incredibly powerful to
learn, because that's so much ofa core issue that I run into in
my own clinical practice ofjust having patients recognize,
(37:46):
want it to get out of it, butthen they really don't know the
next steps of how to remove that.
Ramsay Taum (37:55):
Yeah, I mean I would liken it to the idea I'm
sitting in front of my computerand all of a sudden I see funny
things going on in my computer.
Now I can consciously say Idon't want that anymore.
But I don't have the skill setto make it change because I
don't know how to get into theprogramming.
(38:15):
I'm not a programmer.
So my conscious mind may sayI've got a problem, I've got to
address this problem.
Every day I turn on my computerand said I've got a problem, I
got to address this problem.
I'm not going to do thisanymore.
But if it's built into theprogramming, I'm not going to do
this anymore.
But if it's built into theprogramming I need a programmer.
I need someone that can getinto the underlying program to
(38:36):
change the memory.
What some of us don't is that wekeep making adjustments,
accommodations for the littleerrors.
So one day it's an adjustmentto the right.
Three days later it's twoadjustments to the right.
The next thing you know, we'rewalking around in a circle
(38:56):
adjusting to the pain that we'refeeling on the left.
And the next thing you know,our life is about going in
circles because we're avoidingthe pain on the left.
I don't want to do that anymore.
I want to keep doing it, but wehaven't changed the initial
programming, that underlyingbase memory that is triggered
every time I look left.
So I fool myself into thinkingthat I've now overcome it by
(39:18):
looking to the right only.
Okay.
And so when I look to the right, oh, the problem's not there
anymore.
But eventually we run into itagain, because all we did was
walk around in a circle.
You see that?
And I keep telling myself I'veI've taken measures to avoid it.
Therefore it doesn't existanymore.
Well, the stimulus may no longerbe in your space, but the thing
(39:41):
that's being stimulated is,it's still in you right right so
this concept really begins tosay if you're allowing external
realities or externalities todefine your reality, your pain,
your discomfort, then reallyyou're a victim of externalities
and you're a victim of your ownexpectations of what those
(40:03):
realities can do to you or thoseexpectations externally can do
to you, so that gives someoneelse something else, power.
So this is the power dynamic,right?
if I have to wait for you to sayI'm sorry in order for me to
feel better, I'm a victim ofthat right if I have to wait for
(40:23):
the world to get better beforeI start behaving better, then
I'm a victim of my own behavior,right, because I'm expecting
something else outside of you.
So the Ho'oponopono processreally is a very powerful
process because it enables us tocome back into our power, and
I'm not saying physical power tohurt people, but really to take
(40:46):
responsibility for how I'mfeeling, how I'm behaving and
teaching others how to treat me,which is very different.
So I'm no longer a victim ofyour inability to say I'm sorry,
right, or your inability to seemy truth while I'm living in it
.
And that's the other part yourtruth, my truth.
(41:08):
But what's our truth?
The Ho, the whole point upon theprocess, begins to look at that
and say there's, there aremultiple truths.
The real question is what's thetruth that we want to land on?
What do we agree to and can welive from that perspective?
And my truth is I come from avery wounded, traumatic
(41:29):
experience.
Well, if that's case, then howcan I move into something else
until I release that?
Hypothetically, right, I mean,each of us needs to explore that
.
So if someone can get to thatpoint, the Ho'oponopono process
helps them to go into that depth, because what it's relying on
is the programmer, yourrelationship with the programmer
(41:50):
, in this case, the spiritualrelationship with the divine,
the grand creator, the grandprogrammer, god, if you would.
So, if you subscribe to thatnotion at all, then here is a
way of actually becoming muchmore in tune and connected with
the architect and the programmer, which is why it is a spiritual
(42:11):
principle.
It requires a different levelof intervention.
Dr. Michele Burklund (42:19):
And I think definitely my audience too
is very interested in thatcomponent of it and really
trying to figure out forthemselves how to remove these
blockages and really whateverworks along the way.
So can you and I know this isextremely hard to do in a short
period of time but explain alittle bit about the process?
(42:42):
I mean, I think that they'regoing to have to look into this
at a much deeper level, ofcourse, so this is always the
tough part, yeah yeah.
Ramsay Taum (42:51):
It doesn't involve prayer, it doesn't involve
meditation and one being thesending of the message.
That's the prayer andmeditation, receiving the
message, the response, right.
So many people sometimes getthat mixed up, but it does
involve that.
But what you're praying for andwhat you're listening for is
(43:15):
also important as well, and sothe Hoʻoponopono process is
really about acknowledging thisinternal relationship and so the
ancestral practice that wasupdated for us to use in
contemporary time by a kahunala' human mind, a single mind,
(43:36):
may have three parts to thatmind.
We call it a triune family, andanytime we're in dis-ease,
(44:05):
disorder, it's because one ofthose minds are out of order.
One of those minds are out oforder.
So I like to say, when you arein alignment mind, body and
spirit you are now mind fullbecause you're complete, you're
whole.
It's when you are physically indis-ease or mentally in
disorder, that's when you cansay you are mindless, you're out
(44:29):
of your mind.
You can say you are mindless,you're out of your mind.
So what we want to do is getback into that mind, and the
process allows us to do that, toget back to one mind, a
singular mind, and in your fieldit might be called integration.
Right, we integrate, but wedon't just integrate internally.
That integration now allows usto incorporate as well as
(44:55):
integrate with everything aroundus.
So I'm much more in a line withthe spirit, with the trees,
with the people around me,because I'm no longer
self-centered, I'm just centeredin self.
Self-centered, I'm justcentered in self.
(45:16):
And once I can achieve that, Ican now begin to interact and
relate to people in a differentway and it becomes less
transactional and much morerelational.
So the process asks us, orhelps us, to actually get to
that level of communicating withthat grand mediator and begin
to remove those memories.
(45:38):
So that's what that would be.
So if you saw people doing theprocess, it would look like
they're sleeping, becausethey're really.
It's an internal and as much asI might facilitate it by reading
the prayer or reading themeditation to them, it's really
an inside job.
So I really teach them, asAuntie Morna asked, to really do
(46:02):
it for themselves.
I don't really do groupcleansings where people come.
My preference is to teachpeople how to do that.
The last thing you want to do,that.
The next thing, last thing youwant to do is create a
codependency right.
It's really about empoweringpeople to do their own cleansing
with their own family, withtheir own colleagues, with their
(46:22):
own world around them.
So if people wanted to do it, Iwould recommend that, you know,
they look into a class orhaving someone like myself share
that and teach that.
Once they go through theexperience and continue
practicing it, then they becometheir own healer, as they should
be anyway.
Dr. Michele Burklund (46:44):
Exactly so .
Are you still offeringone-on-one teachings right now?
I know you're kind of on alarger scale and you're teaching
this and giving a lot ofspeeches kind of around the
globe on these practices, butare you still working one-on-one
or in a different way?
Ramsay Taum (47:04):
to teach people then yeah, thank you, I am, and
because, of course, it's atimely undertaking.
It's not something you justjump in and take a Tylenol and
feel better tomorrow, so itrequires time, and so if people
are willing to do that, I alsolike it to do it in small groups
(47:24):
, preferably groups that arerelated, because it's their
relationship that you're tryingto heal or that you'd like to
help them heal.
So if a individual wants to dothat, they can coordinate that
and then we can work with them,or I can come to them or we can
do something.
My preference is to do it inperson because I think there's
(47:46):
energy as much as I do also doit online, but I find that
whoever's in the room willdetermine the outcome of what's
coming out.
It's always the same, but it'salways different Meaning.
The content is there, but itwill find its way into the room
and reveal itself depending onwho's present and what the
(48:07):
issues are.
As long as I can get out of theway and let it come through me
rather than from me, if thatmakes any sense, I can be in
different rooms and people willget different things, but I
really said the same thing ineach room, but oftentimes the
story that comes out that helpsthem to relate to their issue or
(48:28):
their concern, maybe completelydifferent from the last room
because the people in the roomare different, and so I like to
say that this is your healing.
This is the individual'sindividual practice.
Consequently, it's customizedfor them in that way.
So one-on-ones are helpful,especially with people really
(48:53):
want to delve into a deepunderstanding rather than just
learn the mechanics.
I I just don't like teachingmechanics.
I really want to share themeaning, and once people find
deeper meaning, then I thinkthey find it easier to embrace
and do on a regular basis or asthey need to right, which I
(49:15):
think is important.
Ho'oponopono is a way of beingit's.
It's a when you're on default.
The default mode is I'm sorry,right, or let's make this right,
rather than allowing it tofester or turning away from it.
So, in that way, ho'oponoponois a way of being my default
(49:40):
practice.
If I can live a life of pono,do the right thing all the time,
but we have a frailty.
Sometimes we miss it.
Well, I always haveHo'oponopono there.
Dr. Michele Burklund (49:51):
And so how do you like?
So, basically, what you'resaying is like, with this, it's
your you're just, your awarenesshas changed.
You're always aware of kind ofhow you are in the world and and
if there's an imbalance, youcan utilize this to rebalance it
and so like for for you in yourdaily life.
How do you, how do you use thisfor you in your daily life?
(50:15):
How do you, how do you use this?
Do you take time and set asideevery day to do the practice, or
is it more?
You can utilize this throughoutthe day as it comes and and
kind of continue on that way?
Ramsay Taum (50:26):
Thank you for that.
My process has evolved becauseit's really a relationship that
I now have with myself, but alsowith this, with the spiritual
guide, if you would, with divine.
So anytime I feel or sense likethe movie, the force is off
(50:47):
right, I feel a movement in theforce.
There are ways of going rightinto that and dealing with it,
including putting up shields ofsome kind.
So once I start feeling thatnegative energy beginning to be
move in, I can now put up ashield necessary to deal with it
, get into a place and begin torespond.
Equally important, it says whatis it about me?
(51:12):
What, what, what did I justthink?
Or what just came up thatattracted that?
Or why did what you showed mebother me?
Rather than trying to avoid theperson, have to ask myself why
was I bothered by what they justsaid?
Now, this isn't about takingblame.
This is about being aware,aware.
So, before I react to whatsomeone is saying, my question
(51:36):
is why am I reacting right?
Why am I placing so much valueand importance on that word, on
what that person, a completestranger, has said to me?
Why have I given that so muchpower that I'm I'm starting to
cry or that I'm starting to runor that I'm laughing?
Whatever my reaction is, can itbe a response that is now
(51:59):
chosen rather than a reactionthat is a conditioned behavior?
So this is the differencebetween conditioned responses
and informed choices.
So when I become more aware ofthat, anytime something is said,
done or I experience is reallya lesson for me.
(52:19):
So any patient that I have or aclient that have is really
becoming the teacher and I'm thestudent.
It really flips everything tocome from a place of humility
that says it's a little arrogantfor me to think that they're
coming to me to see that, to fixthem.
Why so, if I have 10 patients,they come in all with left
(52:42):
shoulder problems.
I start looking at my shoulderand I thank each of them for
showing me the problem I need towork on today.
Well, next week I have peoplewith right knees coming in.
So now I start looking at myright knee problem, which is a
directional thing.
It's about flexibility, it'sabout moving towards the future.
Right, that's what my rightknee represents, where my left
(53:04):
shoulder is carrying ancestralweight of carrying things that
really aren't mine to carryright.
But it's the patients that come.
The clients that come withtheir issues are really the
teachers that are now helping memove through the process.
So this is gratitude.
Thank you for showing me yourproblem.
Thank you for showing me thisillness, because it subscribes
(53:27):
to this belief that if I see thesplinter in your eye, it
probably came from the log inmine.
That's the only way I canrecognize it, because what's
coming out from you is somewherein me which then says that I'm
just a mirror, as you are amirror to me.
The reflection.
Dr. Michele Burklund (53:53):
So if I don't like what I'm seeing
outside, I have to ask myselfwhat did I just put in front of
the mirror?
Ramsay Taum (53:58):
And if I want to see something better, reflect
back that I need to ask myselfwhat did I just put in front of
the mirror?
And if I want to see somethingbetter, reflect the fact that I
need to reflect somethingdifferent.
Again, it's not about blame,but it's about programming.
Our memory is that this camefrom our ancestors, this came
from, and that could beyesterday Time.
As far as we're concerned, timeis continuing.
(54:18):
So when we refer to ourancestors, it's not someone five
generations ago.
It could be your mother, itcould be your teacher, right,
who in sixth grade called youstupid, right?
That ancestor planted a seed inyour mind.
Dr. Michele Burklund (54:35):
Right.
Ramsay Taum (54:36):
So we don't lock in on ancestors being a DNA
ancestor, spiritual one as wellas a physical one.
Anyone that had an influence onyou in the past is an ancestor.
Dr. Michele Burklund (54:49):
Okay, yeah , I mean, that makes sense too,
especially in this life, and howthings are influenced.
Ramsay Taum (54:57):
That's right.
That's right, yeah, so that's,that's part of it.
And once I can get to that andI live that way, I can process
that in a much more quick,quicker way, because it's kind
of like having a filter.
Oh, I'm not sure that's anydifferent technologically when
you put a an anti-virus filteron your computer, stuff is
(55:23):
coming in all the time butsomething's catching it right
hopefully ho'oponopono is kindof like that.
There's a way of developing thisfilter that begins to redirect
viruses of emotion, of anger, offear and pain, and kind of
reprocesses it so they candefine it in a different way.
(55:44):
And you see it for what it is amemory, don't get me wrong.
There are people out there whoare just knuckleheads.
Right, they behave in a waythat is bothersome.
There's they behave in a waythat might be hurtful.
Well, even there, the questionis what is it about me that
keeps attracting that behavior?
But what is it about me thatthinks I can change that
(56:07):
behavior?
therefore, put myself in theposition to do that right so
this isn't about changing otherpeople, which some people want
to use Ho'oponopono for.
I want to change my wife.
I want to change my husband.
He needs to be doing this right.
So, really, ho'oponopono sayswhat is it about me that keeps
allowing me to be in this space,that I continually see this?
(56:29):
Because other people aren't inthis space, they're not seeing
it, they're not bothered by it.
So there's something about me.
And how do I begin to adjust tothat?
And, oddly enough, when thathappens, these knuckleheads can
go be somebody else'sknucklehead.
I was in here to healknuckleheads but oddly enough,
(56:50):
if I shift my perspective andbehavior, they may no longer see
that in me and they no longerneed to be a knucklehead.
So to the external world itlooks like I just healed a
knucklehead, but in reality Icleaned myself up and I removed
that thing for them to betriggered by thus shifting their
(57:11):
behavior.
So this is where, in thestories that people hear about
of a psychologist going into ahospital and healing everybody,
I happen to know him, I knew himand I knew the story.
And the real behavior was thathe changed the way he behaved
and responded to the patientsand, as a result, they were no
(57:31):
longer being triggered by hisbehavior, his beliefs and et
cetera.
So anytime he walked into theroom they were fine.
So to everyone else they werehealed and to him they were
healed, but in reality when heleft the room they were the same
people.
So if someone came in with thatsame behavior they would get
agitated again.
So we have to be very carefulabout the narratives and the
(57:55):
stories we believe and hear anddig a little deeper.
And in this case thatparticular individual, that
physician, was able to look athimself, adjust himself so that
he no longer triggered othersand they then appeared to be
healed.
He healed their relationship.
He didn't change them, hechanged himself.
(58:18):
That's a very powerful.
Dr. Michele Burklund (58:21):
Yeah, that's really where the power is
is being able to heal yourselfand get in there.
And to me at least, how I kindof view medicine and illness is
that it's an imbalance, and alot of it has to do with emotion
, right, the core of it isperception and how you see
things, and then it can go intodifferent realms and then go
(58:42):
deeper and become physical andstay in the body and so, um,
knowing something like this, tobe able to remove it and to go
in and to give somebody thatinstruction and have that tool,
I think is huge.
So I think this is this is anamazing practice to do for sure.
Ramsay Taum (59:05):
Yeah, and I see it's been in my experience with
an individual can actually ownit, can actually own it.
They can now let it go as longas it's somebody else's they can
.
And we've done this now withchronic pain groups and these
are individuals 10, 15 years ofpain medication, a whole number
(59:31):
of other things not going towork, et cetera.
You have complete turnaroundsoff medications, back at work, a
number of things.
Simply by going through theprocess Maybe I shouldn't say
simply, but by adopting thepractice and beginning to really
remove these questions.
I asked the group after theyshared their pain with one
(59:55):
another tell everybody aboutyour pain and how you got it,
and et cetera, et cetera.
Well, once they're done, Iasked them okay, who wants to
exchange pains?
Nobody wanted to exchange pains.
I said I don't want his pain, Ilike my pain.
And then I proceeded to askthem to point to their bodies
where they were experiencing thepain or where the pain was.
And inevitably people pointedsomewhere in their leg, their
(01:00:20):
head, their back or the chest.
But here's what happened Noneof them pointed at me, none of
them pointed to the next person,nobody pointed outside of
themselves, they all pointedinside themselves and it was in
that moment that everyone had arecognition that it's an inside
job technician or the x-raymachine none of those things,
(01:00:59):
until you decide.
And it was at that moment thatmany of them were able to start
moving towards preferred healthagain, because they realized
they were holding on to it forwhatever reason.
It's their pain because thatwas their new identity.
They needed that pain becauseit allowed them to maintain
their lawsuit.
They needed the pain becausethey wanted to stay angry,
because they couldn't find a wayto find peace with the person
that made them angry.
(01:01:19):
The pain is what the one thingthat they could hold on to that
nobody could take from them.
It was theirs.
And the minute they recognizedthat and they could go back and
say, well, this pain comes froma childhood experience or
something my grandmother said,or my great-great-grandfather
told my grandmother, who told meit's not even mine.
(01:01:40):
Wow, Okay, now I can let it go.
So this is where ancestraltrauma really becomes something
that we can address.
That's addressed by this whenyou realize it's not ancestral,
it's yours, it's now, it's righthere.
It may have happened to yourancestors, but you're living it
now, so don't blame yourancestors anymore.
Take responsibility for it hereand wow, it's amazing the things
(01:02:03):
that shift when that happens.
But again, it's all an insidejob.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:02:08):
Right.
Ramsay Taum (01:02:09):
Anyways, sorry, you got me, am I?
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:02:12):
so buff.
No, I think that's importantand huge for our audience too,
because that's the biggest partis recognizing that and giving
them the power back.
And when you have those momentsof the reason why you're really
holding on to things, yeah, Ithink a lot of amazing things
can happen.
Ramsay Taum (01:02:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:02:32):
Well.
Ramsay Taum (01:02:32):
I hope that's helpful.
Yeah, yeah, okay, well, I, Ihope that's helpful and you know
um to your point yes, I I amavailable and um, we have a
process by by which we addressquestions and that you know, and
opportunities.
But thank you for thisopportunity yeah, thank you too.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:02:50):
I have one more question that I want to
ask you, and then then we canclose out, but I wanted you to
tell us a little bit about themeaning do with letting go of
your mind right and findingsource to get rid of all these
(01:03:17):
thoughts and different thingsthat are that can guide you in a
different direction.
So I want to hear a little bitabout that, and then then we'll
be sure to let everybody knowwhere they can find you and send
the links and everybody to thispodcast too.
Ramsay Taum (01:03:31):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, so the term is na'awao,so N-A-O-K-I-N-A-A-U-A-O, all
right.
So in Hawaiian it's a spirituallanguage.
I'm not just communicating, butI'm communing.
So when you utter the sounds,you're calling upon a spiritual
(01:03:55):
element.
And in the word Na'awao there'selements of fire, god, heat,
light and foundation and base.
So A is fire, heat, light, god,the sun, like Ra, la A Yahweh.
Then there's O, which is anearth energy, a more
foundational.
When we say O A Yahweh, thenthere's O, which is an earth
(01:04:16):
energy, a more foundational.
When we say O-O is to dig,ma-na-o is the foundation of
one's thoughts, po-o is yourhead, so O is a foundation.
As in Ho-O-Pono-Pono, all Os.
It's all about getting back tothe basics and the foundation.
Well, na-oawao is the notion ofan intuition, an inner knowing,
(01:04:41):
an inner knowledge.
We can also say no'ono, anawareness, but na'awao, and
there's two or three root wordsin it.
So na'ao.
Na'ao is the concept ofintestines, like your intestinal
fortitude, but your intestineis your gut.
So oftentimes in behavior it'slike well, go with your gut,
(01:05:05):
right, not with your head.
And we now know medicine andscience is telling us that, yes,
that the microbiomes in ourguts right is actually maybe the
first brain that's affectingthe second brain.
It's interesting how ourancestors kind of recognize this
.
But what?
What does your na'au say?
What does your gut tell you?
So that is like a uh, likeanother mind.
(01:05:30):
The word na means plural, as inmore.
Is that positive, active energyin manna?
Right?
So that is active.
It's a plural na Au.
A-u is a reference to me, as inI am right, the little I, I am
(01:05:54):
humbled.
Au you.
But in the spiritual referencedefinition of ao refers to your
relationship to god.
A you.
When you say oh, you'reacknowledging that you are a
product, you are inside of thatlarger mind, oh Ao.
So when you say na ao, whichtalks about intestines, if you
(01:06:18):
look at the intestines it lookslike a big brain, Right?
Na ao says the plural mind, theplural relationship, meaning
the multi rather than thesingular.
So many minds, right?
(01:06:38):
So now is your gut?
What does your mind say?
What is your gut telling you?
What are your thoughts?
Where are they coming from?
So many thoughts.
And it's interesting if yousubscribe to the idea that we
are what we eat, right?
What we eat mentally, physicallyand spiritually.
So everything you eat has itsown mind or affects your own
(01:07:03):
thoughts, including whoever wasfeeding you or whoever planted
that plant or killed that animalor raised that animal.
Their energy, their mana, theirthoughts are in that.
So if you eat that withoutcleansing it and removing it,
that is now in you, in yourintestines, and absorption is
what your intestines do.
(01:07:23):
So you're absorbing all thatmana, that energy, that memory.
See how that works.
So the last word in there is eoor ao.
Ao fire, o ground.
Ao is also the term for light.
So we say from po darkness toao eo light.
(01:07:48):
Ao is light or enlightenment.
Ao with a little okina is theword for education, awareness.
Na'awau is the education,awareness and the knowledge that
comes from your gut.
So that's it and it speaks tointuition.
(01:08:09):
It's your inner knowing,knowing things that you know but
were never taught, recognizingthat your body understands
better than your mind itself.
So your conscious mind may notunderstand what your body needs
(01:08:30):
to stay in balance and inharmony, but your na'au, through
na'au, your na'awau knowsbecause it's been enlightened,
it's been educated.
So na'awau is that, it's thisdeeper understanding and
awareness.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:08:49):
Right, and I think there's a lot of power
there.
It's so interesting that thelanguage too, every word, has
such a deeper meaning, andespecially when they're combined
, I mean there's it's verycarefully chosen and organized
and much different.
I think then the Englishlanguage in that sense too.
Ramsay Taum (01:09:08):
And it's very fractal, right Cause it can take
a single single beam of lightbut run it through the right
crystal A single crystalreceiving a single light source
of light but casting many colorsin the room.
That's how the Hawaiian mindand the Hawaiian principle
operates.
(01:09:28):
From it's fractal, so,depending on where I'm standing
and who I'm with, I may see itcompletely differently because
of how the light is beingrefracted by the person that's
next to me, right?
right and so, yeah, that goes.
It goes to emotions, and so itsays to be mindful of who you're
(01:09:49):
with right, to be mindful ofwho you're carrying in your mind
and in your heart, because theyare all influencing how you're
seeing the light.
So I'm a fractal being right allright and everything I'm
experiencing is coming through afractal now, at some point in
time.
How do I integrate all of thatto a single light?
Or am I able to begin toseparate, disintegrate that
(01:10:13):
light and begin to see the valuein each vibration that I'm
experiencing with the person tomy left and the person on my
right, that together we cancreate light.
Separate we create darkness.
That's the concept.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:10:40):
Yeah, it's a very beautiful language with
a lot of depth in it, and itreminds me, because I'm in
greece right now the greeklanguage has a lot of really
intense origins, where it hasthat deeper meaning behind each
word, where the symbolism andthe the pronouncement of the
words and the combinations allhave different energy
frequencies too.
Ramsay Taum (01:10:57):
There's a lot of real power.
If energy has a name, I thinkwe want to call it the right
thing if you want to invite itinto you, right?
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:11:08):
Exactly.
Ramsay Taum (01:11:09):
Same way that if I pronounce someone's name
incorrectly, they don't answerme right.
So if I'm going to invokesomething, I should probably
know what its name is orpronounce it properly, if
anything, out of respect.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:11:23):
Right right.
Ramsay Taum (01:11:24):
But if I recognize that I used the wrong tone with
it, I either turn it on or Iturn it off, or I turn it off,
and we now can see that, aswe've created technologies that
allow us to experience voiceactivated, right Type of
(01:11:46):
technology.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:11:46):
Well, if you say it wrong and doesn't
hear you, it won't turn on.
Ramsay Taum (01:11:49):
So you have to be very clear.
So it's not the human mind anymore powerful than the thing
that we created called acomputer.
I think we've distancedourselves from our true capacity
and, at the end of the day, itcomes down to respect.
Can I respect each person, eachthing, each animal, each tree?
(01:12:11):
Can I respect it in such a waythat it responds when I commune
with it properly?
Now, communing andcommunicating are two different
things.
Communing is being present.
Communicating is imposing mythought, because I wasn't able
to convey that just my by mypresence, and so that's part of
(01:12:34):
why the language was designed orevolved the way it did, at
least for us, because it nowallows me to commune with
something, not just convey anidea to it.
Right, or impose upon it mywishes or desires, like, for
instance, I'm not sure there'sso many redwood trees that grew
(01:12:56):
up that want to be furniture.
Right, we might see thefurniture in the redwood tree,
but the redwood tree never sawitself as a piece of wood that
you're gonna a piece of lumber.
It's a tree.
We oppose upon nature, thingsand people, our desires upon
them, and when they don't liveup to that expectation, then we
(01:13:19):
get angry with them.
Right?
That anger then becomes anillness within us which we're
spreading to others.
So this is a full circle.
It comes all the way back towhat we're believing.
What is it I, how I treatothers, I'm teaching them how to
treat me by the way I treatthem right.
And all of that comes from me.
(01:13:40):
It's a memory inside of me.
So what is it about me thatallows me to behave this way
when I'm around you?
That's the thing.
And so that all comes back to aspiritual principle the words we
use, the thoughts we have, theemotions we carry.
So I I can close it with thisuh, the elder kupuna that was my
(01:14:01):
mentor.
She would say that the seeds ofthought is given life on the
life giving breath of ha whichcomes from your heart and your
lungs.
So be careful of what you think, what you feel, but more
(01:14:26):
importantly, what you say,because you're giving it life
the minute you open your mouth.
Guard your thoughts, guard yourfeelings, but above all, guard
your words, for we manifest thatand once it leaves our mouth,
once it comes from our teeth, Ican't get it back.
Fortunately we haveHo'oponopono to heal that
(01:14:47):
relationship.
But it's better to be pono andHo'opono.
So things are pono, pono to bepono and ho'opono.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:15:00):
So things are pono, pono, right.
Well, I think that was superpowerful today, and I'm sure a
lot of our listeners are goingto seek you out to learn a lot
more about this practice and toreally go deeper in themselves
too, and I'm definitely going todig deeper into this myself as
well.
Ramsay Taum (01:15:18):
Thank you Well.
I appreciate the opportunity.
Dr. Michele Burklund (01:15:19):
Thanks for the inquiry.
Thank you very much Okay, thankyou.
Ramsay Taum (01:15:25):
All right.
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