September 2, 2025 • 29 mins
Joanna Herman shares her journey through divorce after seven years of marriage and how she discovered that her circumstances don't define who she is in God's eyes.
• Facing fears of financial insecurity, loneliness, and judgment as a worship leader going through divorce
• Battling shame and the feeling that divorce "wasn't supposed to happen" to her despite doing things "the right way"
• Finding hope by realizing this difficult period was just a chapter, not her entire story
• Clinging to Isaiah 43:2 as a reminder of God's presence during deep waters
• Drawing strength from her mother's example as a single parent and supportive community
• Discovering deeper worship connection through her pain and healing journey
• Learning to combat negative thoughts with truth about her identity in Christ
• Recognizing how God strategically placed supportive people in her life before her crisis
"Find yourself a godly community to surround yourself with who's going to be there to celebrate those mountaintops and pray you through the valleys... just because life may not always be going good, we still serve a good God."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
today I'm going to be talking with joanna herman hey
y'all.
Hey, she is a local teacherhere in washington, parish.
She attends first west, wherejoanna is part of the worship
team and choir.
She also helps out with thewomen's retreat in our area that
really deal with a lot ofdifferent churches, not just one
church.
But yeah, she's on the helpingteam too, so she is a big helper
(00:29):
, helping person.
Yes, I love to help all the way.
Yeah, busy little bee, and youwork with little ones too.
Is that the age range you workwith?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, I actually teach pre-K.
Yeah, when people tell me thatI'm like their, their response
is either oh my gosh, you mustlove it, or oh my gosh, I don't
see how you do it.
So it's one or the other.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, I have a person that's going to be a pre-Ker,
so I feel like I'm right therewith you.
I mean, I don't know, it's aninteresting age.
They definitely keep you onyour toes.
Yes, yes, lots of learning, butI'm so glad that we're finally
able to meet.
We've been trying to have thisconversation a few times, but
just life events been getting inthe way, but I'm glad we're
(01:12):
finally here to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes, I'm excited.
Thank you for asking me.
You know it's going to work outwhen it's supposed to work out
and I'm just excited to be heretoday and make it happen.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, All right, so tell us, where does your story
begin?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So my event that we're going to talk about today
happened back in 2022, when myhusband and I decided to
separate after seven years ofmarriage, and I was 37 at the
time.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, and I'm about that age right now.
So, oh, caleb and I, we'vealmost it's almost seven years,
so I feel like I'm right whereyou were those years ago.
So, man, what were some thingsthat weighed you down like
during that time?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
the unknown, just because I wasn't sure exactly
what was going to happen in mymarriage.
Like I said, we were separatedat the time and trying to kind
of figure out, you know, whatour next step was going to be,
if we were going to be able towork this out or if we were
going to end up in a divorce.
If we did end up divorced, youknow, as a single person it's
like you know am I going to beable to support myself?
You know that was definitely ascary thing to think about
financially.
You know, that was definitely ascary thing to think about
financially.
Where am I going to live?
Thankfully my parents liveclose.
(02:27):
I'm sure maybe they wouldn'thave minded if I stayed with
them for a little bit, butthankfully it didn't come to
that.
Yeah, I was also kind of worriedabout how I was going to handle
being alone again.
We had been married for sevenyears.
We had dated two years beforethat, so we had been together
almost 10 years at that point.
So just being on my own again,you know, I didn't know how I
(02:47):
was going to handle that.
And then, you know, to beingable to wonder if I was going to
find somebody to love me thislate in life because you know
I'm pushing 40.
Yeah, yeah.
So I do know it's cool that andI just wasn't sure you know
what that was going to look likefor me.
So there was a lot of fear ofthe unknown.
I had a lot of fear of judgmentfrom others.
(03:08):
You know, I just wasn't sure.
Serving on the worship team andin the choir, you know what
people would think.
As a divorced person, you know,sometimes I feel like and it's
probably not anything thatthey're putting on me.
It's what I put on myself.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I just wasn't sure what other people were going to
think about me and if I wasgoing to be less qualified to do
that because of being divorcednow had you always been on like
on the worship team, because Iknow you, born and raised at our
church I did first, but I don'tknow if you had.
You know you and your husbandwent to a different church for a
time and then came back to itright, so every church've gone
(03:43):
to, because I've gone to a fewsince I graduated high school
and I left First West.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I have served on the worship team at some point Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So yeah, well, I mean definitely qualified.
I mean you have a great voicebecause I'm in the choir as well
.
But me and a few others werelike we try to get next to
Joanna because we know Joanna'son key and in the right spot,
and we're like we don't know,and we know you do.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, it's always been something I've loved to do,
whether it be leading orsinging in the choir.
I mean, I've grown up singing.
I sang in the kids choir firstwhen I was in elementary school,
so that's really always been apassion of mine.
But, like I said, I just wasn'tsure.
You know how people would ifthey would see me differently.
You know, being in thatposition, I ended up being
divorced and then I also dealtwith a lot of shame because
(04:29):
obviously spoiler alert we didend up getting divorced and I
was just really cautious to whoI shared that information with,
because I didn't want everybodyto know what was going on and I
also felt like, you know, thiskind of wasn't supposed to
happen to me, and so you know itwas just like I mean I don't
(04:50):
think we get married thinkingthat's going to happen,
absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
That's like the last thing you're like.
This is never going to happento me, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Like, for sure, we never went into that process
together thinking that was howit was going to be, but for us
it did.
But yeah, I mean, it was justkind of one of those things and
it's not something fun to talkabout, you know.
So I just kind of kept it tomyself, like I said, other than
like a few trusted friends andobviously our families knew
Right.
But once again, like I justdidn't want people to think of
(05:18):
me a certain way, you know,because yeah, so yeah, yeah, so
it was like the toughest part toprocess.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I mean that's a lot, you know.
I mean you shared a life withsomebody for almost 10 years.
That's a lot of things thathave happened and not all of
them are bad, right, exactly,you know.
And so it's like it's just alot.
And then the things you justtalked about are things not even
related to the marriage.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Right, right, it's the absolute.
Yeah, and that was the hardpart, like you said, for a long
time, because we were togetherfor 10 years and it wasn't all
bad.
You know, there were a lot ofgood times in that time and
you've gotten used to sharingyour life with this person and
then, all of a sudden, they'renot there.
So, and not only are they notthere, but the family yeah, like
I had the best in-laws I stilllove them to this day and so,
(06:03):
you know, it was just a lot ofthings like that that you
envisioned your life being, andall of a sudden it changed.
We didn't have kids, but, likeI said, it's just.
You saw your life go in oneplace and end up somewhere
totally different.
But, yeah, that was really hardto process through just the new
reality of what my life wasgoing to be.
And then, like we said, Icarried around a lot of shame
(06:28):
and disappointment because Ifelt like I had done things the
right way, or so I thought, justto make the marriage last.
You know, when I was in my 20sand I didn't date a lot of
people because I was veryselective and I have, I feel
like, very high standards.
People will judge you for that,but I feel like that's where my
standards need to be for myself.
And then we'd also met at ayoung adult ministry at the
(06:50):
church we attended at the time.
We went to church together, andso for me I felt like I had
done everything to make surelike this marriage lasted.
But the thing is is those aremy standards, those weren't
God's standards.
So, I think that's part of it,too, is those are my standards.
Those weren't God's standards.
So I think that's part of it,too, is maybe it was how I
(07:10):
needed to prepare, in my way,but not in His.
And then, you know, my parentsgot divorced when I was in first
grade and while they had agreat co-parenting relationship
that I'm super thankful for, itwas something that I promised
myself that I would never gothrough a divorce, no matter how
long I'd waited to find thatperson, because I felt like I
didn't want to have to gothrough what they went through,
(07:31):
even though we were young atthat time, like we don't really
remember a whole lot of it.
And, like I said, I don't thinkit was a bad relationship.
It just didn't work.
But it was just something Ithought I was protecting myself
from going through.
Yeah, and then the shame.
And came from a lot of worryingabout, like I said, what others
were going to think of me,because I felt like I was the
last person they probably wouldhave expected this to happen to.
(07:52):
And, like I said, I've keptthat kind of close to myself
because, you know, like I said,it's not the best thing to talk
about.
You don't want everybodyknowing about your business.
You want to share the socialmedia yeah, the highlight reel.
Yeah, you don't want to sharethe bad stuff that's going on,
so I think some people were kindof surprised, you know, when
everything kind of happened.
(08:13):
Yeah, it was just.
Yeah, it was a lot to gothrough at the time, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Well, I know for myself, like some of these words
you're saying, I'm like, oh,those are, oh, it hit me, but
they're hitting me for, likedifferent areas of my life,
because I've had some of thesame thoughts where I thought I
could secure it myself and thenlife told me, no, you don't
actually have control over that.
And it was very hard to handlethat, knowing that there was
(08:40):
nothing that I could do tosecure the outcome I wanted
Exactly.
Yeah, because that's what youwere saying.
Oh, that's really triggeringbecause, like, that's exactly
that whole spiel.
That's how I felt, but atotally different category.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So that's the crazy part about life.
I feel like this situation canbe in so many different parts
and, like you said, like we wantto control things and it to go
a certain way, and so it'sreally difficult, I feel like
sometimes just to let go butrealize the way that you wanted
it to be might not be the bestway.
That's kind of what I had tosee through that.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Well, and you were mentioning just a minute ago
like you had high standards, butit wasn't necessarily God's
standard, right, and so justhaving like, oh, like, oh, yeah,
I'm gonna actually ask god whathe thinks about the situation
and let him pilot that, and my,my thing, I didn't do that right
and I'm like you know, we, wethink we know best and that's
(09:39):
not always the case.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, and it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Uh, they're not even bad things, like you know, your
marriage and having a goodspouse, and all don't know.
They're not even bad things,like you know, your marriage and
having a good spouse and allthose kinds of things.
Those are not bad things.
That you were, you know,wanting for yourself and for me,
and not the thing that I wasdoing wasn't like bad things or
whatever, but like it's alwaysimportant to you know, talk with
the big man first.
(10:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Lord when you don't it can be very difficult.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, but back to your story.
You know when were thingsfinalized, because a minute ago
you said like that was in 20.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Right, so we separated in October 22.
Yeah, and then our divorce wasfinalized in May of 2023,
because we didn't have any kids,we did not have any kind of
property or anything together.
We were renting at the time.
Okay, and then we didn't have acovenant marriage, and so ours
only took six months.
Once we were separated for afull six months.
Yeah, because now for someother like, it's really long.
(10:38):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So I was kind of thankful thatit was, you know, know, it was
an amicable split.
I mean, we're we're stillcordial together to this day,
but I was thankful that it wasjust a quick process and you
know just, cutting the cord alittle bit, yeah, moving forward
, yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
So you know what was your turning point in all of
this, because you know youmentioned basically having to
deal with a humbling episode inyour life and reevaluate, and
just figuring out how to moveforward.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So my hope came from the fact that I had to remind
myself that this was just achapter and not a story, and it
was not going to last forever.
And I think the most importantthing I learned was I'm not
defined by my circumstances.
Just because I am divorceddoesn't disqualify me from
anything that God has for me.
And then, what encouraged mewas to keep pressing on, because
(11:31):
I knew that, while this mightbe hard and difficult for a time
just to go through, I would bestronger in my faith on the
other side, and God was the onlyone who could truly heal me
during this time and heal myheart in the way that only he
could.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, I love the choice of words where, where you
know it's just just a part ofyour story.
Um, again, like I reallyidentify with that.
It's like you're like you'retouching on me here, and because
I've had some things in my lifeas well where I'm like that's a
blemish, yeah, I would ratherpeople not know about that, or
or does this disqualify me fromdoing anything?
And I've had to go through asimilar reckoning of like no,
(12:10):
you know, only God can reallydefine who I am Exactly.
And that is just a chapter, youknow, not the whole of me.
And I feel like we have to lookthat way.
I think sometimes about ourBible characters.
You know what, if we just knewof Moses as the murderer, right,
but we don't.
That's not.
That's like one chapter of hislife that I'm sure he regretted,
(12:32):
but that's not the whole of himFor sure.
And so I think that's animportant thing for us to
remember about ourselves andthat's how God sees us too.
He's not like, oh, joanna, thatone time in first grade, or
that one time when you were 37,or that one time.
He doesn't hold it, he doesn't,he doesn't do that.
Yeah, he doesn't do that.
He looks at the whole of us andloves us in that way, and so I
(12:56):
think it's important that welove ourselves in that way, and
I think that's we don't alwaysdo that no, absolutely, or to
others we don't do that, but weshould because that's how God
loves us.
So, yeah, were there any otherlike Bible verses or songs or
just people that influenced youand helped you out also during
(13:17):
that time.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, so one Bible verse that I clung to during
this season a lot was Isaiah 43,2.
And it was when you go throughdeep waters, I will be with you.
When you go through rivers ofdifficulty, you will not drown.
And when you walk through thefire of oppression, you will not
be burned up and the flameswill not consume you Because,
like I said, anytime you'regoing through a difficult time,
whether it be something likedivorce or, you know, it can be
(13:40):
addiction, it can be all thethings.
I mean we have so many thingsin this world right now that can
hinder us down.
It's just a comfort for me atthat time to know that he is
always with me when I go throughthese things, because it can be
, like I said, a very lonelytime, but to know you know that
he is with us and he will see usthrough those times was
(14:00):
definitely something I had tocling to.
As far as songs, oh my gosh, Icould go on and on about worship
songs.
Well, you're a singer, so, yeah, girl, this worship music.
I tell you what has done astory in my life.
One that spoke to mespecifically was Believe for it
by CeCe Winans during this time,because I had gone to First
West I was visiting at the timewhen I was kind of staying with
(14:20):
my parents, some, and they had agroup from Mobile, alabama.
Come, I remember them.
Ooh girl, love them.
Yes, well, they sang Believefor it.
I had never heard this songbefore, but I tell you I had
tears streaming down my face andI normally don't like have that
reaction during a worship time,but it was, I think, just what
I was going through at that timeand they were singing these
(14:43):
words and when it's saying, youknow, you said it, I believe it,
you said it, it is done, it waskind of just like you know.
I'm just giving this to you,god, because, like I've said
earlier, what I might want tohave happen, which is obviously
for my marriage to be restored,you might not want that and I
had to trust that that my willis not your will and your will
(15:04):
is better than mine.
So that was really, oh my gosh,one of the songs still to this
day.
I can hardly listen to it whenwe sing it at church without
crying, just because of thetruth that it spoke to me during
that time.
And then, as far as the peoplethat have influenced me, my mom
is a big one.
I'm going to try and get throughthis without crying, because I
just love my mom, and if youdon't have a praying mom, oh my
goodness, you got to find youone, even if it's an adopted mom
(15:27):
, like find you a praying mom.
She was a huge influence on meduring this time, more than she
already had been, because I wasgoing through this, but she was
kind of being able to help menavigate through that time
because she had walked in myshoes before.
Now, granted, she had my sisterand I, so she's a single parent
, but no matter what life mighthave been like during that time
(15:48):
for her, she was always apositive light for myself and my
sister and showed us how, withGod's help, he was all that we
needed, and so my mom has had ahuge impact on me, and so not
just my mom but my family wasalso very supportive during that
time.
Yeah, because sometimes they'renot, they're not and they might
not understand the situation,you know.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, so sometimes you know the people you need it
from the most don't always, soI'm glad that you know my family
was supportive of me, checkedup on me a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
They were just like are you doing?
Okay, I'm good?
I mean you know, and we cankind of talk about that.
But I mean that's just I thinkthey were just kind of surprised
at how well I was kind ofworking through things, because
I mean, obviously it was adifficult time but I had a lot
of support, not just from them.
You know, another group I hadwere my group of ladies from
(16:39):
Bible study and they were just apositive light to be with
during that time and I cannotexpress how important it is to
have godly relationships andpeople who lift you up during
the good times but also duringthe difficult times and be
praying for you during that itwas kind of crazy.
I felt like in the start of 2023, I started reconnecting with
(16:59):
some old friends, whether it behigh school or just church, and
it was almost like he waspreparing me by giving me the
people he was placing in my lifeduring that time, because he
knew what was coming.
And I mean, I had, like I said,I had so many people.
My mom had people praying forme that I know had prayed for me
(17:19):
.
We had a choir rehearsal and afew months later, after
everything had happened, theywere being like you know, we've
been praying for you and I wasjust like I didn't even know.
You knew, yeah, but you know,and that didn't matter at the
fact that they knew, because thepoint of that was was I had
people praying for me that Ididn't even know were praying
for right.
So I definitely feel like thosegodly friendships and
relationships around you arevery impactful during those
(17:41):
times yeah, and with your momlike being that you know you're
an adult now.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Did it make you see her in the situation any
different, or was it all justadding just?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
adding to matter more than all.
Yeah, she is literally theabsolute best.
If you don't know my mom,you're missing out.
She's a great person, but yeah,I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
She had that good candy at trick-or-treating for
Halloween.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Oh yeah, good candy.
If you've ever had herchocolate chip cookies, they are
world famous.
But I just had more evenrespect for her to go through,
gone through it as myself.
She had Jenny and I to worryabout, you know, and I mean,
like I said, I don't think wecould have had a better role
model for us as a single parentthan we did her.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, so what were some of the things that have
made it hard to move forward?
So we had these, all thesegreat things that did help you,
but what were the hard things asboulders?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, for sure.
Like I've said, the shame wasreally hard to deal with because
I was keeping it close tomyself and not really sharing a
lot of what was going on withpeople around me.
I mean, you know, like I said,I had my family, but even then I
don't think I told them some ofthe true feelings that I was
feeling because, like I said,you know it's not a fun thing to
(18:57):
talk about and you, like I said, you just don't want people
judging you.
So the shame and the guilt, toa certain extent, was a lot of
the things that I really had tostruggle with in order to keep
going yeah, you know it.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I just feel and this is just.
You know from my own lifeexperiences that shame and guilt
, those two emotions, areemotions that we're not really
supposed to be carrying aroundwith us.
I mean, god created allemotions, you know, and I feel
like shame and guilt can besomething that can be used to
help convict us for repentance,but they're not things we're
(19:35):
supposed to live with.
I don't think and I've come tothe opinion, very big opinion I
could be wrong, but that thoseare things when people are start
living in that, like living inshame and living in guilt.
That's not a god, absolutely mygod doesn't, has not created us
to live in that.
That's not the relationship hehas with us.
(19:56):
So, like he doesn't hold it,hold his thumb over us and say
you, dirty sinner, for sure,like he doesn't, that's not the
relationship he emodes for us.
You know, so I, I don't know, soI say all that because I know
for that time, you know, andI've been in a situation where
it's like, oh, you know, it'ssomething to recognize and know
(20:17):
that's not something we shouldbe living in, exactly Like
knowing that that's not God, notstaying in it for sure.
Yeah, look for those lightsthat you had, yes, and hold on
to those to pull you out of that, because that's not true.
Yes, I think it's very easy forus, like people who have I say
us people have had life trauma.
Have you had life trauma?
Yeah, have I?
(20:37):
Yes, we've had life trauma.
I think it's easy to get stuckin thinking that that's OK or
that's how it should be, or stayin that cave or whatever pit of
that, and it's not.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
No, and I definitely feel, like you kind of said, I
feel like that's part of theenemy's tactics.
Yeah, when we feel that way, weare probably going to be very
close off to other people.
We're giving our things toourselves, and when we do that,
we're not allowing others topour in and minister to us.
Yeah, so I feel like that isdefinitely like a tool that the
(21:14):
enemy uses against us Because,like you said, yes, yes, we are
created to feel these things,but we're not created to live in
these things.
Yeah, so definitely, I feellike that's a struggle for a lot
of people is releasing thosefeelings and not living in them.
For sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So I just think it's important you start feeling
yourself doing that to know, ohwait, stop right, start calling,
calling out to those otherpeople that you know, or getting
in scripture or whatever youknow to do to get out of that.
But for you, what was like?
You know?
Have you overcome it?
You know anything like acapstone for you?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, so I just had to start reminding myself that
my circumstances don't definewho I am, that he does, and I
would just have to have timeswhen those thoughts would come
into my head and I would justhave to combat them with who he
says I am, whether it be I amhis, I'm forgiven, I'm his
daughter, I'm worthy of his love.
(22:12):
And just reminding myself thatI'm who he says I am and not who
this world or my circumstancesay that I am yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, that's important, you know it is.
Some people call that positiveself-talk.
This is the world Right,positive self-talk, right.
But I think it's more like no,you're having a God talk.
It's more like some trueself-talk.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Let's rebrand that.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So did you ever feel that Godwas speaking to you directly?
I mean, I think you mentionedwith the Mobile Alabama group.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
But were there other times where you're was real,
like he was really speaking toyou, and how did you know that
it was God?
Yeah, so I definitely felt likeGod was speaking to me during
that time by placing people inmy life that I could feel open
and honest with about what I wasgoing through.
But the great thing about thosepeople that were coming into my
life was each of them was alsoreminding me that the shame I
felt was the enemy putting thaton me to suppress me, yeah, but
that there was freedom inknowing that that was never a
burden, kind of like we talkedabout that we were never meant
to carry, yeah, and to remindourselves that I'm his and he
(23:18):
says I'm his, yeah, so I mean Ifeel like, once again, like
having people speak those wordsof wisdom and truth into me was
a big thing.
And then I also feel like Goddefinitely, like I said from my
situation spoke to me throughworship.
He was speaking to me as far asthe songs, and then I just feel
(23:40):
like my self of worship hastotally changed within the last
two years.
I'm just taking the words in thesongs and actually being able
to apply them to my life.
Yeah, you know, whether it betelling him, you know how
thankful we are or thankful forhis promises.
There are so many amazingworship songs that are going on
(24:00):
right now.
Yeah, but just taking thosewords to heart and it just being
a moment between me and God,and it's crazy because I feel
like within the last few months,especially when I am leading,
people are coming to me now andthey're saying you know, you can
see the changes that he's madein you and I think that's very
impactful, you know, becauseit's not just how you're
(24:21):
sounding, it's the fact thatpeople can actually see him
working in your life by howyou're worshiping.
So, so, definitely the worshippart as well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I know that that had all been a very bitter season.
You know, some people wouldeven call it like a winter time,
emotionally, relationally,spiritually even.
What did you learn ultimatelyabout God during that time, Like
was there any fruit that youfeel had blossomed?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, so I learned that God loves me despite my
circumstances, and that hedefines who I am, not my
circumstances.
He's a loving God that onlywants the best for us, even when
it's hard for us to understandwhy things happen a certain way
that we wouldn't have wanted forourselves.
Because, like I said earlier,you know, I was praying that my
(25:09):
marriage would be restored.
Yeah, that's not obviously whathappened, but at the same time,
now that I'm on this side of it, I'm so thankful that I trusted
what I felt like was His willin this situation, because I
don't think I would be where I'mat today had that not happened.
(25:29):
Yeah, so I'm definitelythankful for that.
And I felt like I've grown somuch in my faith and dependency
on God in this season, because alot of times, that was all I
had when I went home, because itwas just me.
Yeah, I don't have any pets, Idon't have any kids.
It's just me and God in thequiet.
So I was thankful for that timejust to find rest in him.
(25:53):
Yeah, that was a real importantseason, and then I really feel
like I've learned what it trulymeans to trust and depend on him
.
Even we can't see the biggerpicture of what's ahead Because,
like I said, you know, when allthis was happening, I was
really struggling with theunknown.
Because I'm a teacher, I'm aplanner, yeah, I like to know
what's coming.
We have to do that, and thefact that I didn't know what it
(26:16):
was going to look like was veryterrifying, but I just had.
They're like, joanna, I'm goingthrough a divorce.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
What do I do?
Or even I'm going through thisbig life trauma.
Yeah, what do I do?
You know, what would you say tothem?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
The first thing I would tell them is to find
yourself a godly community tosurround yourself with who's
going to be there to celebratethose mountaintops and pray you
through the valleys, because weall have things we go through,
but the thing is is it's a wholelot harder to go through those
things alone versus when youhave people that are going to be
there to lift you up wheneveryou are going through those
(27:05):
difficult times.
So I would definitely say, tofind you a Gala community would
be a big thing, and just toremember that we serve a loving
God who sees us as he created usand not how the world sees us
during whatever situation we maybe going through, because it's
not always divorce Mine wasdivorce, but I mean it could be
addiction, it could be gambling,I mean there are so many
(27:26):
different things that we gothrough right now.
So just to remember that, justbecause life may not always be
going good, we still serve agood God, yes, and to just be
doing plan for our lives, I'm sothankful that, despite whatever
circumstances we're going on inlife, he never changes.
Yeah, definitely, I thinkthat's a big thing, and then
(27:48):
these situations that we gothrough can turn into a
testimony of his goodness andfaithfulness to share with
others.
I never thought I would be inthis situation sharing about
divorce, but here I am my storyand how his goodness and
(28:09):
faithfulness and his promisesbrought me through my time, and
I hope that that's beenimpactful to others, whether it
be whatever situation they'regoing through.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, yeah Well, I definitely think you know, by
you sharing your story isdefinitely magnifying how good
he is, and that's part of why Ido what I do, because I know
part of my mission really is toflood the Internet, flood, flood
the interwebs and the radiospace with God's goodness.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, and when he does, we do a great job.
You're doing a great job.
I've loved all the otherepisodes I've gotten to listen
to, so if y'all haven't listenedyet, go back and listen to some
.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I do have a treasure trove.
They are to me.
I really do treasure everyconversation I get to have.
But, joanna, I'm just sothankful that we finally got to
do this and I'm so glad you gotto come out.
I know what you shared todaywasn't always fun, but I really
do think that's been impactfulfor somebody and just thank you
for coming out and sharing.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I've really appreciated youjust allowing me this venue to
share my story and hopefully,like I said, this is not
glorifying me or anything thatI've done, but glorifying God
and the way he's worked throughmy life.
So I'm really glad I got toshare this today.
My name is Joanna and this isthe story of the middle.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I'm your host, brandi Bostic, and you've been
listening to the Up for the Muttpodcast For merch or more
uplifting stories, please visitmy website upforthemuttcom.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Psalms 40, verse 2.
He brought me up from thedesolate pit, out of the muddy
clay, and set my feet on therock, making my steps secure.
Thank you.
today I'm going to be talking with joanna herman hey
y'all.
Hey, she is a local teacherhere in washington, parish.
She attends first west, wherejoanna is part of the worship
team and choir.
She also helps out with thewomen's retreat in our area that
really deal with a lot ofdifferent churches, not just one
church.
But yeah, she's on the helpingteam too, so she is a big helper
(00:29):
, helping person.
Yes, I love to help all the way.
Yeah, busy little bee, and youwork with little ones too.
Is that the age range you workwith?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, I actually teach pre-K.
Yeah, when people tell me thatI'm like their, their response
is either oh my gosh, you mustlove it, or oh my gosh, I don't
see how you do it.
So it's one or the other.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, I have a person that's going to be a pre-Ker,
so I feel like I'm right therewith you.
I mean, I don't know, it's aninteresting age.
They definitely keep you onyour toes.
Yes, yes, lots of learning, butI'm so glad that we're finally
able to meet.
We've been trying to have thisconversation a few times, but
just life events been getting inthe way, but I'm glad we're
(01:12):
finally here to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes, I'm excited.
Thank you for asking me.
You know it's going to work outwhen it's supposed to work out
and I'm just excited to be heretoday and make it happen.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, All right, so tell us, where does your story
begin?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So my event that we're going to talk about today
happened back in 2022, when myhusband and I decided to
separate after seven years ofmarriage, and I was 37 at the
time.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, and I'm about that age right now.
So, oh, caleb and I, we'vealmost it's almost seven years,
so I feel like I'm right whereyou were those years ago.
So, man, what were some thingsthat weighed you down like
during that time?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
the unknown, just because I wasn't sure exactly
what was going to happen in mymarriage.
Like I said, we were separatedat the time and trying to kind
of figure out, you know, whatour next step was going to be,
if we were going to be able towork this out or if we were
going to end up in a divorce.
If we did end up divorced, youknow, as a single person it's
like you know am I going to beable to support myself?
You know that was definitely ascary thing to think about
financially.
You know, that was definitely ascary thing to think about
financially.
Where am I going to live?
Thankfully my parents liveclose.
(02:27):
I'm sure maybe they wouldn'thave minded if I stayed with
them for a little bit, butthankfully it didn't come to
that.
Yeah, I was also kind of worriedabout how I was going to handle
being alone again.
We had been married for sevenyears.
We had dated two years beforethat, so we had been together
almost 10 years at that point.
So just being on my own again,you know, I didn't know how I
(02:47):
was going to handle that.
And then, you know, to beingable to wonder if I was going to
find somebody to love me thislate in life because you know
I'm pushing 40.
Yeah, yeah.
So I do know it's cool that andI just wasn't sure you know
what that was going to look likefor me.
So there was a lot of fear ofthe unknown.
I had a lot of fear of judgmentfrom others.
(03:08):
You know, I just wasn't sure.
Serving on the worship team andin the choir, you know what
people would think.
As a divorced person, you know,sometimes I feel like and it's
probably not anything thatthey're putting on me.
It's what I put on myself.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I just wasn't sure what other people were going to
think about me and if I wasgoing to be less qualified to do
that because of being divorcednow had you always been on like
on the worship team, because Iknow you, born and raised at our
church I did first, but I don'tknow if you had.
You know you and your husbandwent to a different church for a
time and then came back to itright, so every church've gone
(03:43):
to, because I've gone to a fewsince I graduated high school
and I left First West.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I have served on the worship team at some point Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So yeah, well, I mean definitely qualified.
I mean you have a great voicebecause I'm in the choir as well
.
But me and a few others werelike we try to get next to
Joanna because we know Joanna'son key and in the right spot,
and we're like we don't know,and we know you do.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, it's always been something I've loved to do,
whether it be leading orsinging in the choir.
I mean, I've grown up singing.
I sang in the kids choir firstwhen I was in elementary school,
so that's really always been apassion of mine.
But, like I said, I just wasn'tsure.
You know how people would ifthey would see me differently.
You know, being in thatposition, I ended up being
divorced and then I also dealtwith a lot of shame because
(04:29):
obviously spoiler alert we didend up getting divorced and I
was just really cautious to whoI shared that information with,
because I didn't want everybodyto know what was going on and I
also felt like, you know, thiskind of wasn't supposed to
happen to me, and so you know itwas just like I mean I don't
(04:50):
think we get married thinkingthat's going to happen,
absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
That's like the last thing you're like.
This is never going to happento me, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Like, for sure, we never went into that process
together thinking that was howit was going to be, but for us
it did.
But yeah, I mean, it was justkind of one of those things and
it's not something fun to talkabout, you know.
So I just kind of kept it tomyself, like I said, other than
like a few trusted friends andobviously our families knew
Right.
But once again, like I justdidn't want people to think of
(05:18):
me a certain way, you know,because yeah, so yeah, yeah, so
it was like the toughest part toprocess.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I mean that's a lot, you know.
I mean you shared a life withsomebody for almost 10 years.
That's a lot of things thathave happened and not all of
them are bad, right, exactly,you know.
And so it's like it's just alot.
And then the things you justtalked about are things not even
related to the marriage.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Right, right, it's the absolute.
Yeah, and that was the hardpart, like you said, for a long
time, because we were togetherfor 10 years and it wasn't all
bad.
You know, there were a lot ofgood times in that time and
you've gotten used to sharingyour life with this person and
then, all of a sudden, they'renot there.
So, and not only are they notthere, but the family yeah, like
I had the best in-laws I stilllove them to this day and so,
(06:03):
you know, it was just a lot ofthings like that that you
envisioned your life being, andall of a sudden it changed.
We didn't have kids, but, likeI said, it's just.
You saw your life go in oneplace and end up somewhere
totally different.
But, yeah, that was really hardto process through just the new
reality of what my life wasgoing to be.
And then, like we said, Icarried around a lot of shame
(06:28):
and disappointment because Ifelt like I had done things the
right way, or so I thought, justto make the marriage last.
You know, when I was in my 20sand I didn't date a lot of
people because I was veryselective and I have, I feel
like, very high standards.
People will judge you for that,but I feel like that's where my
standards need to be for myself.
And then we'd also met at ayoung adult ministry at the
(06:50):
church we attended at the time.
We went to church together, andso for me I felt like I had
done everything to make surelike this marriage lasted.
But the thing is is those aremy standards, those weren't
God's standards.
So, I think that's part of it,too, is those are my standards.
Those weren't God's standards.
So I think that's part of it,too, is maybe it was how I
(07:10):
needed to prepare, in my way,but not in His.
And then, you know, my parentsgot divorced when I was in first
grade and while they had agreat co-parenting relationship
that I'm super thankful for, itwas something that I promised
myself that I would never gothrough a divorce, no matter how
long I'd waited to find thatperson, because I felt like I
didn't want to have to gothrough what they went through,
(07:31):
even though we were young atthat time, like we don't really
remember a whole lot of it.
And, like I said, I don't thinkit was a bad relationship.
It just didn't work.
But it was just something Ithought I was protecting myself
from going through.
Yeah, and then the shame.
And came from a lot of worryingabout, like I said, what others
were going to think of me,because I felt like I was the
last person they probably wouldhave expected this to happen to.
(07:52):
And, like I said, I've keptthat kind of close to myself
because, you know, like I said,it's not the best thing to talk
about.
You don't want everybodyknowing about your business.
You want to share the socialmedia yeah, the highlight reel.
Yeah, you don't want to sharethe bad stuff that's going on,
so I think some people were kindof surprised, you know, when
everything kind of happened.
(08:13):
Yeah, it was just.
Yeah, it was a lot to gothrough at the time, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Well, I know for myself, like some of these words
you're saying, I'm like, oh,those are, oh, it hit me, but
they're hitting me for, likedifferent areas of my life,
because I've had some of thesame thoughts where I thought I
could secure it myself and thenlife told me, no, you don't
actually have control over that.
And it was very hard to handlethat, knowing that there was
(08:40):
nothing that I could do tosecure the outcome I wanted
Exactly.
Yeah, because that's what youwere saying.
Oh, that's really triggeringbecause, like, that's exactly
that whole spiel.
That's how I felt, but atotally different category.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So that's the crazy part about life.
I feel like this situation canbe in so many different parts
and, like you said, like we wantto control things and it to go
a certain way, and so it'sreally difficult, I feel like
sometimes just to let go butrealize the way that you wanted
it to be might not be the bestway.
That's kind of what I had tosee through that.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Well, and you were mentioning just a minute ago
like you had high standards, butit wasn't necessarily God's
standard, right, and so justhaving like, oh, like, oh, yeah,
I'm gonna actually ask god whathe thinks about the situation
and let him pilot that, and my,my thing, I didn't do that right
and I'm like you know, we, wethink we know best and that's
(09:39):
not always the case.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, and it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Uh, they're not even bad things, like you know, your
marriage and having a goodspouse, and all don't know.
They're not even bad things,like you know, your marriage and
having a good spouse and allthose kinds of things.
Those are not bad things.
That you were, you know,wanting for yourself and for me,
and not the thing that I wasdoing wasn't like bad things or
whatever, but like it's alwaysimportant to you know, talk with
the big man first.
(10:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Lord when you don't it can be very difficult.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, but back to your story.
You know when were thingsfinalized, because a minute ago
you said like that was in 20.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Right, so we separated in October 22.
Yeah, and then our divorce wasfinalized in May of 2023,
because we didn't have any kids,we did not have any kind of
property or anything together.
We were renting at the time.
Okay, and then we didn't have acovenant marriage, and so ours
only took six months.
Once we were separated for afull six months.
Yeah, because now for someother like, it's really long.
(10:38):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So I was kind of thankful thatit was, you know, know, it was
an amicable split.
I mean, we're we're stillcordial together to this day,
but I was thankful that it wasjust a quick process and you
know just, cutting the cord alittle bit, yeah, moving forward
, yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
So you know what was your turning point in all of
this, because you know youmentioned basically having to
deal with a humbling episode inyour life and reevaluate, and
just figuring out how to moveforward.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So my hope came from the fact that I had to remind
myself that this was just achapter and not a story, and it
was not going to last forever.
And I think the most importantthing I learned was I'm not
defined by my circumstances.
Just because I am divorceddoesn't disqualify me from
anything that God has for me.
And then, what encouraged mewas to keep pressing on, because
(11:31):
I knew that, while this mightbe hard and difficult for a time
just to go through, I would bestronger in my faith on the
other side, and God was the onlyone who could truly heal me
during this time and heal myheart in the way that only he
could.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, I love the choice of words where, where you
know it's just just a part ofyour story.
Um, again, like I reallyidentify with that.
It's like you're like you'retouching on me here, and because
I've had some things in my lifeas well where I'm like that's a
blemish, yeah, I would ratherpeople not know about that, or
or does this disqualify me fromdoing anything?
And I've had to go through asimilar reckoning of like no,
(12:10):
you know, only God can reallydefine who I am Exactly.
And that is just a chapter, youknow, not the whole of me.
And I feel like we have to lookthat way.
I think sometimes about ourBible characters.
You know what, if we just knewof Moses as the murderer, right,
but we don't.
That's not.
That's like one chapter of hislife that I'm sure he regretted,
(12:32):
but that's not the whole of himFor sure.
And so I think that's animportant thing for us to
remember about ourselves andthat's how God sees us too.
He's not like, oh, joanna, thatone time in first grade, or
that one time when you were 37,or that one time.
He doesn't hold it, he doesn't,he doesn't do that.
Yeah, he doesn't do that.
He looks at the whole of us andloves us in that way, and so I
(12:56):
think it's important that welove ourselves in that way, and
I think that's we don't alwaysdo that no, absolutely, or to
others we don't do that, but weshould because that's how God
loves us.
So, yeah, were there any otherlike Bible verses or songs or
just people that influenced youand helped you out also during
(13:17):
that time.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, so one Bible verse that I clung to during
this season a lot was Isaiah 43,2.
And it was when you go throughdeep waters, I will be with you.
When you go through rivers ofdifficulty, you will not drown.
And when you walk through thefire of oppression, you will not
be burned up and the flameswill not consume you Because,
like I said, anytime you'regoing through a difficult time,
whether it be something likedivorce or, you know, it can be
(13:40):
addiction, it can be all thethings.
I mean we have so many thingsin this world right now that can
hinder us down.
It's just a comfort for me atthat time to know that he is
always with me when I go throughthese things, because it can be
, like I said, a very lonelytime, but to know you know that
he is with us and he will see usthrough those times was
(14:00):
definitely something I had tocling to.
As far as songs, oh my gosh, Icould go on and on about worship
songs.
Well, you're a singer, so, yeah, girl, this worship music.
I tell you what has done astory in my life.
One that spoke to mespecifically was Believe for it
by CeCe Winans during this time,because I had gone to First
West I was visiting at the timewhen I was kind of staying with
(14:20):
my parents, some, and they had agroup from Mobile, alabama.
Come, I remember them.
Ooh girl, love them.
Yes, well, they sang Believefor it.
I had never heard this songbefore, but I tell you I had
tears streaming down my face andI normally don't like have that
reaction during a worship time,but it was, I think, just what
I was going through at that timeand they were singing these
(14:43):
words and when it's saying, youknow, you said it, I believe it,
you said it, it is done, it waskind of just like you know.
I'm just giving this to you,god, because, like I've said
earlier, what I might want tohave happen, which is obviously
for my marriage to be restored,you might not want that and I
had to trust that that my willis not your will and your will
(15:04):
is better than mine.
So that was really, oh my gosh,one of the songs still to this
day.
I can hardly listen to it whenwe sing it at church without
crying, just because of thetruth that it spoke to me during
that time.
And then, as far as the peoplethat have influenced me, my mom
is a big one.
I'm going to try and get throughthis without crying, because I
just love my mom, and if youdon't have a praying mom, oh my
goodness, you got to find youone, even if it's an adopted mom
(15:27):
, like find you a praying mom.
She was a huge influence on meduring this time, more than she
already had been, because I wasgoing through this, but she was
kind of being able to help menavigate through that time
because she had walked in myshoes before.
Now, granted, she had my sisterand I, so she's a single parent
, but no matter what life mighthave been like during that time
(15:48):
for her, she was always apositive light for myself and my
sister and showed us how, withGod's help, he was all that we
needed, and so my mom has had ahuge impact on me, and so not
just my mom but my family wasalso very supportive during that
time.
Yeah, because sometimes they'renot, they're not and they might
not understand the situation,you know.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, so sometimes you know the people you need it
from the most don't always, soI'm glad that you know my family
was supportive of me, checkedup on me a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
They were just like are you doing?
Okay, I'm good?
I mean you know, and we cankind of talk about that.
But I mean that's just I thinkthey were just kind of surprised
at how well I was kind ofworking through things, because
I mean, obviously it was adifficult time but I had a lot
of support, not just from them.
You know, another group I hadwere my group of ladies from
(16:39):
Bible study and they were just apositive light to be with
during that time and I cannotexpress how important it is to
have godly relationships andpeople who lift you up during
the good times but also duringthe difficult times and be
praying for you during that itwas kind of crazy.
I felt like in the start of 2023, I started reconnecting with
(16:59):
some old friends, whether it behigh school or just church, and
it was almost like he waspreparing me by giving me the
people he was placing in my lifeduring that time, because he
knew what was coming.
And I mean, I had, like I said,I had so many people.
My mom had people praying forme that I know had prayed for me
(17:19):
.
We had a choir rehearsal and afew months later, after
everything had happened, theywere being like you know, we've
been praying for you and I wasjust like I didn't even know.
You knew, yeah, but you know,and that didn't matter at the
fact that they knew, because thepoint of that was was I had
people praying for me that Ididn't even know were praying
for right.
So I definitely feel like thosegodly friendships and
relationships around you arevery impactful during those
(17:41):
times yeah, and with your momlike being that you know you're
an adult now.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Did it make you see her in the situation any
different, or was it all justadding just?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
adding to matter more than all.
Yeah, she is literally theabsolute best.
If you don't know my mom,you're missing out.
She's a great person, but yeah,I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
She had that good candy at trick-or-treating for
Halloween.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Oh yeah, good candy.
If you've ever had herchocolate chip cookies, they are
world famous.
But I just had more evenrespect for her to go through,
gone through it as myself.
She had Jenny and I to worryabout, you know, and I mean,
like I said, I don't think wecould have had a better role
model for us as a single parentthan we did her.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, so what were some of the things that have
made it hard to move forward?
So we had these, all thesegreat things that did help you,
but what were the hard things asboulders?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, for sure.
Like I've said, the shame wasreally hard to deal with because
I was keeping it close tomyself and not really sharing a
lot of what was going on withpeople around me.
I mean, you know, like I said,I had my family, but even then I
don't think I told them some ofthe true feelings that I was
feeling because, like I said,you know it's not a fun thing to
(18:57):
talk about and you, like I said, you just don't want people
judging you.
So the shame and the guilt, toa certain extent, was a lot of
the things that I really had tostruggle with in order to keep
going yeah, you know it.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I just feel and this is just.
You know from my own lifeexperiences that shame and guilt
, those two emotions, areemotions that we're not really
supposed to be carrying aroundwith us.
I mean, god created allemotions, you know, and I feel
like shame and guilt can besomething that can be used to
help convict us for repentance,but they're not things we're
(19:35):
supposed to live with.
I don't think and I've come tothe opinion, very big opinion I
could be wrong, but that thoseare things when people are start
living in that, like living inshame and living in guilt.
That's not a god, absolutely mygod doesn't, has not created us
to live in that.
That's not the relationship hehas with us.
(19:56):
So, like he doesn't hold it,hold his thumb over us and say
you, dirty sinner, for sure,like he doesn't, that's not the
relationship he emodes for us.
You know, so I, I don't know, soI say all that because I know
for that time, you know, andI've been in a situation where
it's like, oh, you know, it'ssomething to recognize and know
(20:17):
that's not something we shouldbe living in, exactly Like
knowing that that's not God, notstaying in it for sure.
Yeah, look for those lightsthat you had, yes, and hold on
to those to pull you out of that, because that's not true.
Yes, I think it's very easy forus, like people who have I say
us people have had life trauma.
Have you had life trauma?
Yeah, have I?
(20:37):
Yes, we've had life trauma.
I think it's easy to get stuckin thinking that that's OK or
that's how it should be, or stayin that cave or whatever pit of
that, and it's not.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
No, and I definitely feel, like you kind of said, I
feel like that's part of theenemy's tactics.
Yeah, when we feel that way, weare probably going to be very
close off to other people.
We're giving our things toourselves, and when we do that,
we're not allowing others topour in and minister to us.
Yeah, so I feel like that isdefinitely like a tool that the
(21:14):
enemy uses against us Because,like you said, yes, yes, we are
created to feel these things,but we're not created to live in
these things.
Yeah, so definitely, I feellike that's a struggle for a lot
of people is releasing thosefeelings and not living in them.
For sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So I just think it's important you start feeling
yourself doing that to know, ohwait, stop right, start calling,
calling out to those otherpeople that you know, or getting
in scripture or whatever youknow to do to get out of that.
But for you, what was like?
You know?
Have you overcome it?
You know anything like acapstone for you?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, so I just had to start reminding myself that
my circumstances don't definewho I am, that he does, and I
would just have to have timeswhen those thoughts would come
into my head and I would justhave to combat them with who he
says I am, whether it be I amhis, I'm forgiven, I'm his
daughter, I'm worthy of his love.
(22:12):
And just reminding myself thatI'm who he says I am and not who
this world or my circumstancesay that I am yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, that's important, you know it is.
Some people call that positiveself-talk.
This is the world Right,positive self-talk, right.
But I think it's more like no,you're having a God talk.
It's more like some trueself-talk.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Let's rebrand that.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So did you ever feel that Godwas speaking to you directly?
I mean, I think you mentionedwith the Mobile Alabama group.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
But were there other times where you're was real,
like he was really speaking toyou, and how did you know that
it was God?
Yeah, so I definitely felt likeGod was speaking to me during
that time by placing people inmy life that I could feel open
and honest with about what I wasgoing through.
But the great thing about thosepeople that were coming into my
life was each of them was alsoreminding me that the shame I
felt was the enemy putting thaton me to suppress me, yeah, but
that there was freedom inknowing that that was never a
burden, kind of like we talkedabout that we were never meant
to carry, yeah, and to remindourselves that I'm his and he
(23:18):
says I'm his, yeah, so I mean Ifeel like, once again, like
having people speak those wordsof wisdom and truth into me was
a big thing.
And then I also feel like Goddefinitely, like I said from my
situation spoke to me throughworship.
He was speaking to me as far asthe songs, and then I just feel
(23:40):
like my self of worship hastotally changed within the last
two years.
I'm just taking the words in thesongs and actually being able
to apply them to my life.
Yeah, you know, whether it betelling him, you know how
thankful we are or thankful forhis promises.
There are so many amazingworship songs that are going on
(24:00):
right now.
Yeah, but just taking thosewords to heart and it just being
a moment between me and God,and it's crazy because I feel
like within the last few months,especially when I am leading,
people are coming to me now andthey're saying you know, you can
see the changes that he's madein you and I think that's very
impactful, you know, becauseit's not just how you're
(24:21):
sounding, it's the fact thatpeople can actually see him
working in your life by howyou're worshiping.
So, so, definitely the worshippart as well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I know that that had all been a very bitter season.
You know, some people wouldeven call it like a winter time,
emotionally, relationally,spiritually even.
What did you learn ultimatelyabout God during that time, Like
was there any fruit that youfeel had blossomed?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, so I learned that God loves me despite my
circumstances, and that hedefines who I am, not my
circumstances.
He's a loving God that onlywants the best for us, even when
it's hard for us to understandwhy things happen a certain way
that we wouldn't have wanted forourselves.
Because, like I said earlier,you know, I was praying that my
(25:09):
marriage would be restored.
Yeah, that's not obviously whathappened, but at the same time,
now that I'm on this side of it, I'm so thankful that I trusted
what I felt like was His willin this situation, because I
don't think I would be where I'mat today had that not happened.
(25:29):
Yeah, so I'm definitelythankful for that.
And I felt like I've grown somuch in my faith and dependency
on God in this season, because alot of times, that was all I
had when I went home, because itwas just me.
Yeah, I don't have any pets, Idon't have any kids.
It's just me and God in thequiet.
So I was thankful for that timejust to find rest in him.
(25:53):
Yeah, that was a real importantseason, and then I really feel
like I've learned what it trulymeans to trust and depend on him
.
Even we can't see the biggerpicture of what's ahead Because,
like I said, you know, when allthis was happening, I was
really struggling with theunknown.
Because I'm a teacher, I'm aplanner, yeah, I like to know
what's coming.
We have to do that, and thefact that I didn't know what it
(26:16):
was going to look like was veryterrifying, but I just had.
They're like, joanna, I'm goingthrough a divorce.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
What do I do?
Or even I'm going through thisbig life trauma.
Yeah, what do I do?
You know, what would you say tothem?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
The first thing I would tell them is to find
yourself a godly community tosurround yourself with who's
going to be there to celebratethose mountaintops and pray you
through the valleys, because weall have things we go through,
but the thing is is it's a wholelot harder to go through those
things alone versus when youhave people that are going to be
there to lift you up wheneveryou are going through those
(27:05):
difficult times.
So I would definitely say, tofind you a Gala community would
be a big thing, and just toremember that we serve a loving
God who sees us as he created usand not how the world sees us
during whatever situation we maybe going through, because it's
not always divorce Mine wasdivorce, but I mean it could be
addiction, it could be gambling,I mean there are so many
(27:26):
different things that we gothrough right now.
So just to remember that, justbecause life may not always be
going good, we still serve agood God, yes, and to just be
doing plan for our lives, I'm sothankful that, despite whatever
circumstances we're going on inlife, he never changes.
Yeah, definitely, I thinkthat's a big thing, and then
(27:48):
these situations that we gothrough can turn into a
testimony of his goodness andfaithfulness to share with
others.
I never thought I would be inthis situation sharing about
divorce, but here I am my storyand how his goodness and
(28:09):
faithfulness and his promisesbrought me through my time, and
I hope that that's beenimpactful to others, whether it
be whatever situation they'regoing through.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, yeah Well, I definitely think you know, by
you sharing your story isdefinitely magnifying how good
he is, and that's part of why Ido what I do, because I know
part of my mission really is toflood the Internet, flood, flood
the interwebs and the radiospace with God's goodness.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, and when he does, we do a great job.
You're doing a great job.
I've loved all the otherepisodes I've gotten to listen
to, so if y'all haven't listenedyet, go back and listen to some
.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I do have a treasure trove.
They are to me.
I really do treasure everyconversation I get to have.
But, joanna, I'm just sothankful that we finally got to
do this and I'm so glad you gotto come out.
I know what you shared todaywasn't always fun, but I really
do think that's been impactfulfor somebody and just thank you
for coming out and sharing.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I've really appreciated youjust allowing me this venue to
share my story and hopefully,like I said, this is not
glorifying me or anything thatI've done, but glorifying God
and the way he's worked throughmy life.
So I'm really glad I got toshare this today.
My name is Joanna and this isthe story of the middle.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I'm your host, brandi Bostic, and you've been
listening to the Up for the Muttpodcast For merch or more
uplifting stories, please visitmy website upforthemuttcom.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Psalms 40, verse 2.
He brought me up from thedesolate pit, out of the muddy
clay, and set my feet on therock, making my steps secure.
Thank you.
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