From the dark web to lecture halls at MIT, we look at some over-arching global trends that are challenging the way we work and conference. So how has the world changed and how do conference planners need to adapt their programs and run sheets? Also how can we leverage content beyond conference days and can technology can be seen as a friend rather than foe?
Mark Herschberg is a versatile professional who has established himself as a prominent CTO within the artificial intelligence and cybersecurity sectors. In addition to his fractional CTO work, Mark teaches professional development at MIT, is frequently invited to speak at conferences and events. He is the award-winning author of The Career Toolkit: Essential Skills for Success That No One Taught You and creator of the Brain Bump app, where content creators can repurpose highlights of their published works.
Quotes from this episode:
"The cost of filtering (information) is also becoming effectively zero."
"Conferences cannot just be about knowledge transfer. They need to be people-oriented, focusing on engaging with others and creating meaningful connections."
-Mark Herschberg
Mark's website and book:
The Career Toolkit: Essential Skills for Success That No One Taught You
Connect with Mark Herschberg:
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/hershey
Twitter: @CareerToolkitBk
FB: @TheCareerToolkitBook
IG: @thecareertoolkit
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Herschberg (00:00):
I've been a keynote speaker, panelist,
technical speaker for decades atdifferent conferences.
And here's the sad thing Idon't think it has changed that
much, and that is a problem.
Adelaine Ng (00:15):
Welcome to Upon Arrival, a show that uncovers
stories and strategies that makeup all the moving parts of
business events tourism, with me, Adelaine Ng.
In today's fast-paced world,events have to evolve beyond
mere content delivery.
Because information is so easyto get and there are a lot more
Zoom meetings these days, yourcommunity needs a much bigger
(00:37):
reason to get out of theroutines of their busy schedules
and even book those flights inaccommodation if that's part of
the deal.
My guest today firmly believesthat conferences must adapt to
thrive, yet he says it'ssurprising how few companies and
organizations are doing so.
Mark Herschberg is a fascinatingindividual whose background
(00:59):
traverses from delving into thedepths of the dark web to
delivering lectures atuniversities.
He's attended numerousprofessional conferences and so
has experienced first-hand howthe entire event experience can
become well predictable.
In this first of a two-partepisode, we'll get to know
(01:20):
Mark's universe and how he'sbringing its various parts
together to enrich hisunderstanding of the events
world.
He'll also share how he sees AIimpacting jobs in the events
industry, and we'll learn a fewstrategies for upleveling along
the way.
Mark, welcome and thank you forcoming on the show.
Mark Herschberg (01:38):
Thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure to be here.
Adelaine Ng (01:41):
Well, I'm here to pick your brain on events, but I
first want to acknowledge thatyou seem to specialize in so
many many areas at a high level.
So, I guess, as a way for ourlisteners to get to know you,
how do you go about answeringthe question when somebody
you've just met asks you what doyou do?
Mark Herschberg (02:03):
I do a lot, and so it depends on who is asking
me.
I am known in one industry as aCTO.
Particularly, I do fractionalCTO work, a lot of work around
artificial intelligence andcybersecurity, so that's a lot
of work I've been doing forabout 30 some years Now.
I have also, in parallel tothat, been teaching at MIT not a
(02:25):
technical class, but aprofessional development class
and that led to my work as anauthor the author of the Career
Toolkit Essential Skills forSuccess that no One Taught you,
and related to that the speakingI do at conferences and events
related to professionaldevelopment, although these days
, the two have actually comeback together.
(02:46):
We're recording this in 2023,.
Ai is all the rage, and so somepeople ask me to wear both hats
and come in and talk about AIand the workplace and what that
means for our careers or for ourindustry.
So, depending on who's speakingto me, I'm a technical CTO, I
am a professional developmentspeaker and author, or I'm a
(03:07):
combination of the two.
Adelaine Ng (03:08):
Because when I read your bio, your life sounds like
a movie, One of those doubleagents where you're a lecturer
by day and then at night you gocatch criminals on the dark web.
And I was just thinking whateven is the dark web?
Is that where all the scammershang out?
Mark Herschberg (03:24):
Yes and no.
The analogy I use is the darkweb is like the dark alley.
Now, the dark web, it's part ofthe internet that is not easily
accessible.
If you are doing somethingillegal, you're not going to be
able to get a job.
You're probably not going to doit in the middle of the
well-lit street, you're going todo it in that dark back alley.
Likewise, if you're doingsomething illegal on the
(03:47):
internet, you're probably doingit on the dark web.
But just like not all darkalleys are bad and not everyone
in a dark alley is a bad person,there are legitimate people who
are on the dark web.
It's just all the nefariousstuff Generally takes place on
the dark web too, and in one ofmy former roles I used to track
Terrorists and cyber criminalson the dark web.
(04:09):
So that that's the James Bondpart of your referencing earlier
, but I was not the guy in thefield.
I Do dance tangos, but I wasnot the guy in the field.
I was doing it safely from NewYork City office.
Adelaine Ng (04:21):
Sorry, did you say tango as well?
Is that something?
Your competitive ballroomdancer or something?
Mark Herschberg (04:27):
Yes, I was a competitive ballroom dancer, one
of the top ranked ones in theUS back when I was competing and
traveled all over the country,even internationally sometimes,
for competitions and events.
Adelaine Ng (04:39):
Oh my goodness, you , one of those people that you
know we might not even think ishuman.
That is so amazing.
Do you get asked?
I mean, since you brought upthe the topic of AI as well, and
you know You've got the darkweb and all of that, I think the
event space is pretty nowlooking at AI and going well,
how do we use this, or do weneed to be afraid of it Because
(05:02):
this is going to take over somejobs in events?
What are your thoughts on that?
Mark Herschberg (05:06):
The answer to your question is yes to both
parts.
It will take over some jobs,but it will also Help us and
create better Experiences forour customers and audiences.
Don't be afraid in the longterm, but there is a little
short term disruption, so let mebe a little more concrete about
(05:27):
that.
What we see every time withtechnology is it comes in and
displaces jobs.
I'm old enough to remember tollbooth collectors and some of
the audience might be as welland We'd have to drive and then
slow down and wait in line andgive money to the toll booth
collector.
Those folks got replaced by.
They had these machines whereyou throw coins in the basket,
(05:49):
and today we have the electronicpasses.
Now 99.9% of people are veryhappy.
We have this because we don'thave to slow down anymore and
our commutes are faster.
But there's a tiny segment ofthe population, namely the toll
booth collectors, who are notvery happy that their jobs got
automated away, and this happenswith every new technology.
(06:11):
A small number of people getdisplaced, but a large number of
people benefit.
However, on the whole, it's notthat well.
These jobs are gone and thesepeople are now out of luck.
If you look at a larger change.
Farming is the example Iusually use.
In the US, at the start of the19th century, we were about 75%
(06:31):
farmers.
Now, 100 years later, 25%farmers.
We don't need all the farmersanymore.
And because you and I are notfarmers, we can do podcasts, we
can do software, we can runevents, because we're not stuck
on the farm picking crops, sothere's enough food for everyone
.
So jobs will be created,opportunities will be created.
(06:51):
By this new technology, we canget rid of some of the grunt
work.
We can automate that way,allowing us to focus on higher
value services and the eventspace in particular.
This is a people business.
Your job isn't oh, how do Ischedule this event room?
If that's what you're doingwith most of your job, you might
be in trouble, but you'reprobably not adding a lot of
(07:13):
deep value to your clients.
The value you add is how do wecreate a great experience for
you and the audience members?
And that's where your humanabilities are not going to be
replaced by AI, but they will besupplemented.
Just like spell check has mademe much better because my
spelling is atrocious, so willAI tools help you be more
(07:35):
effective in your role.
The only catch is the speed ofchange is so fast, we might have
that early disruption, thatloss of jobs, and that's going
to hit us sooner than the newjobs show up.
And this is true not just inevents, but across all sorts of
spaces.
So there's a little risk to thelabor market about temporary
(07:57):
labor displacement.
There will be more new jobscreated than jobs lost, but it
may not happen at the same time,and that's the big risk to us.
So look at your job.
Look at what is the roteautomated stuff you're doing
Hopefully you can get rid ofthat with AI and then you can
say what can I do?
That adds the higher value tomy customer and that's where you
(08:18):
should be focusing your career.
Adelaine Ng (08:19):
What about people who, for example, copywriters,
or people who work in marketing,where a lot of those parts are
now being outsourced to AI?
So if your job is 90% now beingreplaced by AI, who can often
do a more reliable job, and aslong as you really work on the
(08:40):
prompts, you can get someamazing work at a much faster
speed.
And if you're also saying, Imean, there is that time that
you need to allow to reskill orto find a new pocket within the
workforce for your skills tohave that value and for you to
be confident with that value aswell.
So it's a really funny space tobe in right now.
(09:03):
What's your best advice forpeople who are finding
themselves in that space wherethey do feel like my job could
actually be threatened?
Mark Herschberg (09:10):
There are certain jobs just like a milkman
, a tow booth collector, travelagents where we saw a lot of
them go away.
But now let's look at thistravel agent specifically Again.
I'm old enough to remember whenI wanted to book a flight.
We would call a few airlinesand ask for your prices.
To do this all by phone or youcall the travel agent who can do
(09:31):
it for you.
Thank God I don't have to dothat anymore.
I can go to the computer andit's just.
I can get the informationfaster, more efficiently than
having to call someone else.
But even though we lost many ofthose travel agents who would
say, well, here are your flightoptions, we still have travel
agents.
They're not telling me here arethe flights you can choose.
They're creating these higherend packages for more customized
(09:55):
, more interesting experiences.
Let's assume you're a copywriterin the event space and used to
write up just standard copyabout locations, about events.
Yeah, that job is probablygoing away because 95% of it can
now be done by a machine.
They don't need you full timeor they don't need you one
instead of 20 of you.
(10:15):
But you know what you can doand we're gonna talk a little
about this during the show.
You can take the content fromthe show because you're
producing mountains of content.
You have all the talks and nowof course, we can get a
transcription of every talk thatgoes on and we can create
summaries of every talk and wecan turn that into blog posts
(10:37):
and social media and othercontent.
And that can be done in waysthat 20 years ago we just didn't
have the capacity to do it.
That would cost so much.
Now that the costs have gonedown, we can say well, the two
copywriters who used to just doall the copy pre-event, we only
need half a person.
But now we can take that oneand a half capacity and create
(10:59):
post-event content or contentduring the event, or content in
other ways, repurposing thecontent we create, or additional
content, and we can add morevalue to our customers.
And this is again what wealways see in technology is that
as certain tasks get reduced interms of their cost, we now
have extra capacity.
(11:19):
We're no longer on the farm, sonow we can post on social media
, and so you can find new waysto employ your new found
resources to add more value toyour customers.
Adelaine Ng (11:30):
Yeah, it's so interesting the untapped
potential that is in repurposingcontent.
We go to so much effort intocreating the core content but
there is so much more that can Imean even in the podcast
interviews that I'm doing.
I'm like this is gold.
There is so much gold in theseconversations and it's just
limited to whoever's listeningto the podcast for that amount
(11:53):
of time and I'm like there's somuch opportunity here to just
grab things out, little snippetsand things that could be turned
into blog posts, even LinkedInarticles.
All this stuff I'm trying tostill work out because I feel
like I need a few more arms andlegs in order to get all of that
mapped out.
But the potential is there andAI is making that process so
(12:14):
much easier now, so I candefinitely see the possibilities
.
It's definitely an excitingtime that we live in right now,
but we're talking about podcasts.
I found out somewhere thatyou've been a guest on some 300
podcasts and I also happened toknow that you make yourself
available till midnight yourtime in New York, which was
great for me.
But why this drive forvisibility and presence in the
(12:38):
podcast world?
And also, I know you've been aguest on several events podcast
as well.
Mark Herschberg (12:43):
Two things motivate me.
I mentioned that I have thesemultiple personas.
There's Mark, the CTO, and Ibuild all sorts of tech
companies.
Then there's Mark, theinstructor at MIT, and the book
I put out.
Here's the thing about books.
Most authors, as some of youraudience may know, they don't
make money from selling books.
The real money comes from beinga coach or consultant.
(13:07):
I am not a coach.
I do not want to coach people.
I have a day job but I am verypassionate about helping people
with their professional efficacyand going on these podcasts.
This is my hobby, this is myinterest, this is my passion.
A lot of my volunteer work andmy teaching, and now the book
and the podcasting, is how I canhelp people with their
(13:29):
professional efficacy and that'sreally one of my missions in
life.
Now there is a second advantage.
I am a professional speaker.
Even though I don't do coaching, I do do speaking, and so I do
get brought in either tocompanies or to conferences and
events, and certainly going onthe podcast.
It gets the word out about me,it provides some social proof
(13:51):
and people can listen to me andhear.
Does this guy sound like acompetent speaker?
Is he someone I think can helpeducate our audience.
So I do have some benefit thatway.
But I'd say really that firstmotivation, the helping people
with their professional efficacy, that's what drives me more
than anything else.
Adelaine Ng (14:08):
And the reason why you haven't launched a podcast
yourself.
Mark Herschberg (14:12):
That's a very interesting question.
If you look at the businessmodels.
If I was a coach, if, forexample, my goal was to sell
people a $5,000 coaching package, a podcast makes sense Because
you buy the book, say, okay, $20, the book, yeah, this sounds
interesting.
Let me start listening to theguy.
It's free.
(14:32):
And after hearing someonemultiple times, you start to
build up the trust.
You say, yeah, he's pretty good.
And then, after I've had youhear me a bunch of times, I can.
Now I'm ready to write the bigcheck, but I have nothing to
sell.
I'm not trying to sell you that$5,000 package.
I'm trying to get the word out.
Here's content yes, my book hassome nominal cost.
(14:55):
Everything else I have I giveaway for free.
There are articles on thewebsite for free.
There's a number of freeresources.
Here's how you can implementcareer development programs for
free at your company.
It's not.
Oh, here's some lead gen.
Here's how I can sell it to you.
I don't even ask for your email.
I also created the brain bumpapp, which I give away for free.
(15:16):
So all this content I give awayfor free.
So building my own audience.
We're bill.
Oh, I want to listen to Mark.
I want to hear what he has tosay.
That's great.
Subscribe, read the articles,follow the blog.
But I'm not doing it to buildyou up for a conversion, which
is what a lot of contentmarketing does, which is what a
lot of podcasting and blogs do.
(15:38):
I just have nothing to sell.
Adelaine Ng (15:41):
It's interesting because I talked to a lot of
fellow podcasters and we're alldoing it for different reasons,
and a lot of people also Comeacross this thing called pot
fade, which is when you launchmaybe three or four episodes and
then your podcast kind of diesout because you realize this is
actually work and it's alsobecause you know we haven't
mapped out some of those piecesthat you've just talked about,
(16:04):
which is, you know, how doesthis tie back in to my overall
goals?
How does this serve thedestination I'm trying to reach
with what I'm trying to create?
It's excellent that you'veactually spoke those things out
and just to make us think, inthis world where there is so
much Overwhelming, so manymoving pieces, what are the
things that are going to serveme most on?
I appreciate that.
(16:24):
But let's get back to theconversation about events.
This is an industry that hasgone through a lot of change,
especially through the pandemic.
Actually, take us through thechanges as you've seen it over
the last decade or so, becauseyou have been writing about this
topic, you have had a very keeneye on the development of this
industry.
How have you seen it evolve?
Mark Herschberg (16:45):
I've been a keynote speaker, a Panelist,
technical speaker for decades atdifferent conferences and
here's the sad thing I don'tthink it has changed that much.
That's the unfortunate part.
Even yes, now virtual is commonthat never used to be and we do
have hybrid events but reallyit has not changed much.
(17:09):
And that is a problem andthat's one of the things we
would need to talk about on theshow is it does need to change,
because what has changed overthe past 20 some years is the
cost of accessing information.
When I think back to the 90s,when I started my career, I I
got some trade journals and whenI say journals I mean physical
(17:30):
magazines that we get mailed tome every month.
There were a couple early emaillists, maybe a few websites, but
really it was that tradejournal where I got information
and you went to the conferencebecause this is where you could
hear big ideas, you could heartop people in your industry, you
could learn new things.
The cost of that knowledgetransfer, the cost at learning,
(17:52):
is now zero because I can listento people on podcasts and I can
read their writings and watchtheir videos and anything I can
get from your conference I canprobably get elsewhere on the
web cheaper, faster I can get itwhen I want where I want at
less cost, and by cost thatincludes travel, time or things,
(18:13):
not just money.
So if your conference merelysays I will give you this
information, your valueproposition is diminishing and
what we need to do is make theseconferences more people
oriented, and so that's whatwe're going to talk about.
There's a couple of differentthings we can do, but the key
takeaway conferences cannot justbe here is knowledge transfer.
(18:35):
It needs to be about engagingwith other people.
Adelaine Ng (18:39):
What about the argument that, hey, you know,
the problem is that we do havetoo much information.
It's all at our disposal, a lotof bits free.
We can get a whole lot now onYouTube, and the reason why you
would go to a conference isbecause we've sifted, we've done
the work, we're bringing youthe cream of the crop, and this
(18:59):
is what you need to know now forthe industry, so that you're in
a good position to take yourcompany to the next level or to
make the right connections.
Mark Herschberg (19:08):
What would you say to that argument that might
work for people I'm going to sayearlier in their careers,
whether they are individuals whoare just younger, and wow,
there's so much to learn.
Or maybe even business ownerswho are new to an industry, new
to a business, where, again, wow, there's so much to learn.
But mid-career professionalsand senior folks, who, of course
(19:30):
, are the ones you want at yourconferences because they're
decision makers and that's whatgets the vendors to show up,
because they can do thepurchasing.
Those folks we're wise enoughto know what's going on, what's
in the industry, what blog, whatpodcast, what email list is
valuable and what isn't.
And even if they don't knowthat, they can begin to do that
(19:53):
easily.
First, as you know it, AI iscoming along.
Ai is going to help us filtersome of this and say, wow,
there's 10,000 podcasts.
Ai, please help me pick theones most relevant to me.
But here's something simple Ican do today.
I can look at your conference,I can see who are your speakers,
what are the conference titles,because you've probably
(20:13):
published your agenda to try andget me to go there.
Great, I'm just going to Googlethese people and these topics
and I'll bet I can find easily80, 90% of all of that right now
this second online for free.
So the filter maybe that worksfor some people, but the cost of
(20:33):
filtering is also becomingeffectively zero.
Adelaine Ng (20:37):
Yeah, some really sobering points there.
So if we can no longer rely onjust content and just the
promise that, hey, we've doneall the hard work and we're
presenting you with the topicsthat you need to know right now
to be current, how do our eventsneed to change?
I mean, if you're saying thatwe're stuck in the Stone Age
(20:57):
almost, what are the things thatyou see as needing to change,
and are you actually seeingattendance numbers drop off
because events have not evolvedas much as they should?
Mark Herschberg (21:08):
It's hard to answer the latter question
because we're recording this in2023.
It's post COVID.
People do want to go out, butpeople are also saying I don't
know if I want to travel and doall this.
Different industries are indifferent places post pandemic,
so I don't think I have clearenough data to say there is a
(21:30):
clear trend.
I think it's still frothy andvolatile and things are going to
shake out for a little while.
But for a question, there aresix things I recommend
conferences do.
Adelaine Ng (21:41):
Oh, I look forward to that which will be in part
two of this interview publishednext week, because there's quite
a lot to get through.
But give us a teaser.
What are the six?
Mark Herschberg (21:50):
Perceptions, networking, business development
, location specific activities,virtual follow-ups and
professional development.
These are six things you canadd at little or no cost.
Adelaine Ng (22:04):
We'll be going through Mark's six ideas next
week that you can add to yourevent almost for free.
Hope you'll join me then.
And don't forget, if you foundvalue in today's show, please
click the follow button if you'dlike to be notified when a new
episode drops.
And if you've ever consideredlaunching a podcast with a
strategy to land in Apple's top200 charts in the first week,
(22:25):
feel free to send me an email atuponarivalpodcast at gmailcom,
and we'll explore how we canmake that happen.
Catch you next week for parttwo to uncover more stories and
strategies for a successfulfuture.
Until then, cheers.
I've been a keynote speaker, panelist,
technical speaker for decades atdifferent conferences.
And here's the sad thing Idon't think it has changed that
much, and that is a problem.
Adelaine Ng (00:15):
Welcome to Upon Arrival, a show that uncovers
stories and strategies that makeup all the moving parts of
business events tourism, with me, Adelaine Ng.
In today's fast-paced world,events have to evolve beyond
mere content delivery.
Because information is so easyto get and there are a lot more
Zoom meetings these days, yourcommunity needs a much bigger
(00:37):
reason to get out of theroutines of their busy schedules
and even book those flights inaccommodation if that's part of
the deal.
My guest today firmly believesthat conferences must adapt to
thrive, yet he says it'ssurprising how few companies and
organizations are doing so.
Mark Herschberg is a fascinatingindividual whose background
(00:59):
traverses from delving into thedepths of the dark web to
delivering lectures atuniversities.
He's attended numerousprofessional conferences and so
has experienced first-hand howthe entire event experience can
become well predictable.
In this first of a two-partepisode, we'll get to know
(01:20):
Mark's universe and how he'sbringing its various parts
together to enrich hisunderstanding of the events
world.
He'll also share how he sees AIimpacting jobs in the events
industry, and we'll learn a fewstrategies for upleveling along
the way.
Mark, welcome and thank you forcoming on the show.
Mark Herschberg (01:38):
Thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure to be here.
Adelaine Ng (01:41):
Well, I'm here to pick your brain on events, but I
first want to acknowledge thatyou seem to specialize in so
many many areas at a high level.
So, I guess, as a way for ourlisteners to get to know you,
how do you go about answeringthe question when somebody
you've just met asks you what doyou do?
Mark Herschberg (02:03):
I do a lot, and so it depends on who is asking
me.
I am known in one industry as aCTO.
Particularly, I do fractionalCTO work, a lot of work around
artificial intelligence andcybersecurity, so that's a lot
of work I've been doing forabout 30 some years Now.
I have also, in parallel tothat, been teaching at MIT not a
(02:25):
technical class, but aprofessional development class
and that led to my work as anauthor the author of the Career
Toolkit Essential Skills forSuccess that no One Taught you,
and related to that the speakingI do at conferences and events
related to professionaldevelopment, although these days
, the two have actually comeback together.
(02:46):
We're recording this in 2023,.
Ai is all the rage, and so somepeople ask me to wear both hats
and come in and talk about AIand the workplace and what that
means for our careers or for ourindustry.
So, depending on who's speakingto me, I'm a technical CTO, I
am a professional developmentspeaker and author, or I'm a
(03:07):
combination of the two.
Adelaine Ng (03:08):
Because when I read your bio, your life sounds like
a movie, One of those doubleagents where you're a lecturer
by day and then at night you gocatch criminals on the dark web.
And I was just thinking whateven is the dark web?
Is that where all the scammershang out?
Mark Herschberg (03:24):
Yes and no.
The analogy I use is the darkweb is like the dark alley.
Now, the dark web, it's part ofthe internet that is not easily
accessible.
If you are doing somethingillegal, you're not going to be
able to get a job.
You're probably not going to doit in the middle of the
well-lit street, you're going todo it in that dark back alley.
Likewise, if you're doingsomething illegal on the
(03:47):
internet, you're probably doingit on the dark web.
But just like not all darkalleys are bad and not everyone
in a dark alley is a bad person,there are legitimate people who
are on the dark web.
It's just all the nefariousstuff Generally takes place on
the dark web too, and in one ofmy former roles I used to track
Terrorists and cyber criminalson the dark web.
(04:09):
So that that's the James Bondpart of your referencing earlier
, but I was not the guy in thefield.
I Do dance tangos, but I wasnot the guy in the field.
I was doing it safely from NewYork City office.
Adelaine Ng (04:21):
Sorry, did you say tango as well?
Is that something?
Your competitive ballroomdancer or something?
Mark Herschberg (04:27):
Yes, I was a competitive ballroom dancer, one
of the top ranked ones in theUS back when I was competing and
traveled all over the country,even internationally sometimes,
for competitions and events.
Adelaine Ng (04:39):
Oh my goodness, you , one of those people that you
know we might not even think ishuman.
That is so amazing.
Do you get asked?
I mean, since you brought upthe the topic of AI as well, and
you know You've got the darkweb and all of that, I think the
event space is pretty nowlooking at AI and going well,
how do we use this, or do weneed to be afraid of it Because
(05:02):
this is going to take over somejobs in events?
What are your thoughts on that?
Mark Herschberg (05:06):
The answer to your question is yes to both
parts.
It will take over some jobs,but it will also Help us and
create better Experiences forour customers and audiences.
Don't be afraid in the longterm, but there is a little
short term disruption, so let mebe a little more concrete about
(05:27):
that.
What we see every time withtechnology is it comes in and
displaces jobs.
I'm old enough to remember tollbooth collectors and some of
the audience might be as welland We'd have to drive and then
slow down and wait in line andgive money to the toll booth
collector.
Those folks got replaced by.
They had these machines whereyou throw coins in the basket,
(05:49):
and today we have the electronicpasses.
Now 99.9% of people are veryhappy.
We have this because we don'thave to slow down anymore and
our commutes are faster.
But there's a tiny segment ofthe population, namely the toll
booth collectors, who are notvery happy that their jobs got
automated away, and this happenswith every new technology.
(06:11):
A small number of people getdisplaced, but a large number of
people benefit.
However, on the whole, it's notthat well.
These jobs are gone and thesepeople are now out of luck.
If you look at a larger change.
Farming is the example Iusually use.
In the US, at the start of the19th century, we were about 75%
(06:31):
farmers.
Now, 100 years later, 25%farmers.
We don't need all the farmersanymore.
And because you and I are notfarmers, we can do podcasts, we
can do software, we can runevents, because we're not stuck
on the farm picking crops, sothere's enough food for everyone
.
So jobs will be created,opportunities will be created.
(06:51):
By this new technology, we canget rid of some of the grunt
work.
We can automate that way,allowing us to focus on higher
value services and the eventspace in particular.
This is a people business.
Your job isn't oh, how do Ischedule this event room?
If that's what you're doingwith most of your job, you might
be in trouble, but you'reprobably not adding a lot of
(07:13):
deep value to your clients.
The value you add is how do wecreate a great experience for
you and the audience members?
And that's where your humanabilities are not going to be
replaced by AI, but they will besupplemented.
Just like spell check has mademe much better because my
spelling is atrocious, so willAI tools help you be more
(07:35):
effective in your role.
The only catch is the speed ofchange is so fast, we might have
that early disruption, thatloss of jobs, and that's going
to hit us sooner than the newjobs show up.
And this is true not just inevents, but across all sorts of
spaces.
So there's a little risk to thelabor market about temporary
(07:57):
labor displacement.
There will be more new jobscreated than jobs lost, but it
may not happen at the same time,and that's the big risk to us.
So look at your job.
Look at what is the roteautomated stuff you're doing
Hopefully you can get rid ofthat with AI and then you can
say what can I do?
That adds the higher value tomy customer and that's where you
(08:18):
should be focusing your career.
Adelaine Ng (08:19):
What about people who, for example, copywriters,
or people who work in marketing,where a lot of those parts are
now being outsourced to AI?
So if your job is 90% now beingreplaced by AI, who can often
do a more reliable job, and aslong as you really work on the
(08:40):
prompts, you can get someamazing work at a much faster
speed.
And if you're also saying, Imean, there is that time that
you need to allow to reskill orto find a new pocket within the
workforce for your skills tohave that value and for you to
be confident with that value aswell.
So it's a really funny space tobe in right now.
(09:03):
What's your best advice forpeople who are finding
themselves in that space wherethey do feel like my job could
actually be threatened?
Mark Herschberg (09:10):
There are certain jobs just like a milkman
, a tow booth collector, travelagents where we saw a lot of
them go away.
But now let's look at thistravel agent specifically Again.
I'm old enough to remember whenI wanted to book a flight.
We would call a few airlinesand ask for your prices.
To do this all by phone or youcall the travel agent who can do
(09:31):
it for you.
Thank God I don't have to dothat anymore.
I can go to the computer andit's just.
I can get the informationfaster, more efficiently than
having to call someone else.
But even though we lost many ofthose travel agents who would
say, well, here are your flightoptions, we still have travel
agents.
They're not telling me here arethe flights you can choose.
They're creating these higherend packages for more customized
(09:55):
, more interesting experiences.
Let's assume you're a copywriterin the event space and used to
write up just standard copyabout locations, about events.
Yeah, that job is probablygoing away because 95% of it can
now be done by a machine.
They don't need you full timeor they don't need you one
instead of 20 of you.
(10:15):
But you know what you can doand we're gonna talk a little
about this during the show.
You can take the content fromthe show because you're
producing mountains of content.
You have all the talks and nowof course, we can get a
transcription of every talk thatgoes on and we can create
summaries of every talk and wecan turn that into blog posts
(10:37):
and social media and othercontent.
And that can be done in waysthat 20 years ago we just didn't
have the capacity to do it.
That would cost so much.
Now that the costs have gonedown, we can say well, the two
copywriters who used to just doall the copy pre-event, we only
need half a person.
But now we can take that oneand a half capacity and create
(10:59):
post-event content or contentduring the event, or content in
other ways, repurposing thecontent we create, or additional
content, and we can add morevalue to our customers.
And this is again what wealways see in technology is that
as certain tasks get reduced interms of their cost, we now
have extra capacity.
(11:19):
We're no longer on the farm, sonow we can post on social media
, and so you can find new waysto employ your new found
resources to add more value toyour customers.
Adelaine Ng (11:30):
Yeah, it's so interesting the untapped
potential that is in repurposingcontent.
We go to so much effort intocreating the core content but
there is so much more that can Imean even in the podcast
interviews that I'm doing.
I'm like this is gold.
There is so much gold in theseconversations and it's just
limited to whoever's listeningto the podcast for that amount
(11:53):
of time and I'm like there's somuch opportunity here to just
grab things out, little snippetsand things that could be turned
into blog posts, even LinkedInarticles.
All this stuff I'm trying tostill work out because I feel
like I need a few more arms andlegs in order to get all of that
mapped out.
But the potential is there andAI is making that process so
(12:14):
much easier now, so I candefinitely see the possibilities
.
It's definitely an excitingtime that we live in right now,
but we're talking about podcasts.
I found out somewhere thatyou've been a guest on some 300
podcasts and I also happened toknow that you make yourself
available till midnight yourtime in New York, which was
great for me.
But why this drive forvisibility and presence in the
(12:38):
podcast world?
And also, I know you've been aguest on several events podcast
as well.
Mark Herschberg (12:43):
Two things motivate me.
I mentioned that I have thesemultiple personas.
There's Mark, the CTO, and Ibuild all sorts of tech
companies.
Then there's Mark, theinstructor at MIT, and the book
I put out.
Here's the thing about books.
Most authors, as some of youraudience may know, they don't
make money from selling books.
The real money comes from beinga coach or consultant.
(13:07):
I am not a coach.
I do not want to coach people.
I have a day job but I am verypassionate about helping people
with their professional efficacyand going on these podcasts.
This is my hobby, this is myinterest, this is my passion.
A lot of my volunteer work andmy teaching, and now the book
and the podcasting, is how I canhelp people with their
(13:29):
professional efficacy and that'sreally one of my missions in
life.
Now there is a second advantage.
I am a professional speaker.
Even though I don't do coaching, I do do speaking, and so I do
get brought in either tocompanies or to conferences and
events, and certainly going onthe podcast.
It gets the word out about me,it provides some social proof
(13:51):
and people can listen to me andhear.
Does this guy sound like acompetent speaker?
Is he someone I think can helpeducate our audience.
So I do have some benefit thatway.
But I'd say really that firstmotivation, the helping people
with their professional efficacy, that's what drives me more
than anything else.
Adelaine Ng (14:08):
And the reason why you haven't launched a podcast
yourself.
Mark Herschberg (14:12):
That's a very interesting question.
If you look at the businessmodels.
If I was a coach, if, forexample, my goal was to sell
people a $5,000 coaching package, a podcast makes sense Because
you buy the book, say, okay, $20, the book, yeah, this sounds
interesting.
Let me start listening to theguy.
It's free.
(14:32):
And after hearing someonemultiple times, you start to
build up the trust.
You say, yeah, he's pretty good.
And then, after I've had youhear me a bunch of times, I can.
Now I'm ready to write the bigcheck, but I have nothing to
sell.
I'm not trying to sell you that$5,000 package.
I'm trying to get the word out.
Here's content yes, my book hassome nominal cost.
(14:55):
Everything else I have I giveaway for free.
There are articles on thewebsite for free.
There's a number of freeresources.
Here's how you can implementcareer development programs for
free at your company.
It's not.
Oh, here's some lead gen.
Here's how I can sell it to you.
I don't even ask for your email.
I also created the brain bumpapp, which I give away for free.
(15:16):
So all this content I give awayfor free.
So building my own audience.
We're bill.
Oh, I want to listen to Mark.
I want to hear what he has tosay.
That's great.
Subscribe, read the articles,follow the blog.
But I'm not doing it to buildyou up for a conversion, which
is what a lot of contentmarketing does, which is what a
lot of podcasting and blogs do.
(15:38):
I just have nothing to sell.
Adelaine Ng (15:41):
It's interesting because I talked to a lot of
fellow podcasters and we're alldoing it for different reasons,
and a lot of people also Comeacross this thing called pot
fade, which is when you launchmaybe three or four episodes and
then your podcast kind of diesout because you realize this is
actually work and it's alsobecause you know we haven't
mapped out some of those piecesthat you've just talked about,
(16:04):
which is, you know, how doesthis tie back in to my overall
goals?
How does this serve thedestination I'm trying to reach
with what I'm trying to create?
It's excellent that you'veactually spoke those things out
and just to make us think, inthis world where there is so
much Overwhelming, so manymoving pieces, what are the
things that are going to serveme most on?
I appreciate that.
(16:24):
But let's get back to theconversation about events.
This is an industry that hasgone through a lot of change,
especially through the pandemic.
Actually, take us through thechanges as you've seen it over
the last decade or so, becauseyou have been writing about this
topic, you have had a very keeneye on the development of this
industry.
How have you seen it evolve?
Mark Herschberg (16:45):
I've been a keynote speaker, a Panelist,
technical speaker for decades atdifferent conferences and
here's the sad thing I don'tthink it has changed that much.
That's the unfortunate part.
Even yes, now virtual is commonthat never used to be and we do
have hybrid events but reallyit has not changed much.
(17:09):
And that is a problem andthat's one of the things we
would need to talk about on theshow is it does need to change,
because what has changed overthe past 20 some years is the
cost of accessing information.
When I think back to the 90s,when I started my career, I I
got some trade journals and whenI say journals I mean physical
(17:30):
magazines that we get mailed tome every month.
There were a couple early emaillists, maybe a few websites, but
really it was that tradejournal where I got information
and you went to the conferencebecause this is where you could
hear big ideas, you could heartop people in your industry, you
could learn new things.
The cost of that knowledgetransfer, the cost at learning,
(17:52):
is now zero because I can listento people on podcasts and I can
read their writings and watchtheir videos and anything I can
get from your conference I canprobably get elsewhere on the
web cheaper, faster I can get itwhen I want where I want at
less cost, and by cost thatincludes travel, time or things,
(18:13):
not just money.
So if your conference merelysays I will give you this
information, your valueproposition is diminishing and
what we need to do is make theseconferences more people
oriented, and so that's whatwe're going to talk about.
There's a couple of differentthings we can do, but the key
takeaway conferences cannot justbe here is knowledge transfer.
(18:35):
It needs to be about engagingwith other people.
Adelaine Ng (18:39):
What about the argument that, hey, you know,
the problem is that we do havetoo much information.
It's all at our disposal, a lotof bits free.
We can get a whole lot now onYouTube, and the reason why you
would go to a conference isbecause we've sifted, we've done
the work, we're bringing youthe cream of the crop, and this
(18:59):
is what you need to know now forthe industry, so that you're in
a good position to take yourcompany to the next level or to
make the right connections.
Mark Herschberg (19:08):
What would you say to that argument that might
work for people I'm going to sayearlier in their careers,
whether they are individuals whoare just younger, and wow,
there's so much to learn.
Or maybe even business ownerswho are new to an industry, new
to a business, where, again, wow, there's so much to learn.
But mid-career professionalsand senior folks, who, of course
(19:30):
, are the ones you want at yourconferences because they're
decision makers and that's whatgets the vendors to show up,
because they can do thepurchasing.
Those folks we're wise enoughto know what's going on, what's
in the industry, what blog, whatpodcast, what email list is
valuable and what isn't.
And even if they don't knowthat, they can begin to do that
(19:53):
easily.
First, as you know it, AI iscoming along.
Ai is going to help us filtersome of this and say, wow,
there's 10,000 podcasts.
Ai, please help me pick theones most relevant to me.
But here's something simple Ican do today.
I can look at your conference,I can see who are your speakers,
what are the conference titles,because you've probably
(20:13):
published your agenda to try andget me to go there.
Great, I'm just going to Googlethese people and these topics
and I'll bet I can find easily80, 90% of all of that right now
this second online for free.
So the filter maybe that worksfor some people, but the cost of
(20:33):
filtering is also becomingeffectively zero.
Adelaine Ng (20:37):
Yeah, some really sobering points there.
So if we can no longer rely onjust content and just the
promise that, hey, we've doneall the hard work and we're
presenting you with the topicsthat you need to know right now
to be current, how do our eventsneed to change?
I mean, if you're saying thatwe're stuck in the Stone Age
(20:57):
almost, what are the things thatyou see as needing to change,
and are you actually seeingattendance numbers drop off
because events have not evolvedas much as they should?
Mark Herschberg (21:08):
It's hard to answer the latter question
because we're recording this in2023.
It's post COVID.
People do want to go out, butpeople are also saying I don't
know if I want to travel and doall this.
Different industries are indifferent places post pandemic,
so I don't think I have clearenough data to say there is a
(21:30):
clear trend.
I think it's still frothy andvolatile and things are going to
shake out for a little while.
But for a question, there aresix things I recommend
conferences do.
Adelaine Ng (21:41):
Oh, I look forward to that which will be in part
two of this interview publishednext week, because there's quite
a lot to get through.
But give us a teaser.
What are the six?
Mark Herschberg (21:50):
Perceptions, networking, business development
, location specific activities,virtual follow-ups and
professional development.
These are six things you canadd at little or no cost.
Adelaine Ng (22:04):
We'll be going through Mark's six ideas next
week that you can add to yourevent almost for free.
Hope you'll join me then.
And don't forget, if you foundvalue in today's show, please
click the follow button if you'dlike to be notified when a new
episode drops.
And if you've ever consideredlaunching a podcast with a
strategy to land in Apple's top200 charts in the first week,
(22:25):
feel free to send me an email atuponarivalpodcast at gmailcom,
and we'll explore how we canmake that happen.
Catch you next week for parttwo to uncover more stories and
strategies for a successfulfuture.
Until then, cheers.
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