There's a fascinating connection between the arts and your events that can hold a transformative power. Imagine blending music, theatre, improv comedy, and dynamic choreography—turning ordinary corporate meetings into riveting, memorable experiences. This not only almost guarantees a memorable event, it also fortifies retention and amplifies learning.
But this recipe for success is also often overlooked because of many companies' traditional focus on analytics over creative flair. Yet, as we'll discover, a sprinkle of Hollywood magic can elevate events, ensuring your event's message leaves an indelible mark on its audience.
Kraig Kleeman presents an unlikely but successful mix of corporate honcho meets rock and roll performer. A lover of the performing arts, Kraig has coupled that passion and his business acumen to craft mesmerising corporate events. He is the founder of Rock The C-Suit, Kraig Kleeman Live and an established showrunner for global events such as The World Leaders Forum. He is also the bestselling author of A Winning Brand and The Must React System.
Quotes from this episode:
"Events still benefit tremendously from the integration of the performing arts. It can happen in a whole number of ways and customisation is key."
"There's always something that will happen on the stage that was unplanned and spontaneous, but was the result of just the creativity, the forethought, maybe prior experiences that will just come out of that performer."
-Kraig Kleeman
Kraigs's website:
kraigkleemanlive.com
Kraig's books:
A Winning Brand: How to Build a Powerful, Personal Brand in Today's Modern, Digital World
The Must React System: User's Guide to Prospecting C-Suite Executives
Connect with Kraig:
Twitter: kraigkleemantv
LinkedIn: kraigkleeman
FB: kraig.kleeman
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kraig Kleeman (00:00):
I'll never forget .
We asked a question what phrasewould you use to describe the
events that you've been to inthe last, you know, 12 or 24
months?
And the one selection that waschosen by far the most was the
word snooze fest.
Adelaine Ng (00:18):
Are you just as surprised as I was to hear that?
Welcome to Upon Arrival, a showthat uncovers stories and
strategies that make up all themoving parts of business events
tourism?
I'm Adelaine Ng and I've justcome back from an events
destination showcase inAustralia's Gold Coast, famous
for its golden beaches, vibrantsurf life and exhilarating theme
(00:40):
parks and, oh my goodness, didthey put on a show.
From enchanting garden lunchesto breathtaking acrobatics, to
fun and scary characters thatemerged at SeaWorld.
As a travel trade journalist,I'm blessed that I get to see
all these ideas event plannerscan bring to life, turning what
can easily be mundane corporateconferences into memorable
(01:03):
experiences.
So I may have mistakenlyassumed that surely no one
settles for forgettable eventsthese days, but, as it turns out
, what I found out from my guestthis week is that more
companies that we might imaginedo, and we'll hear more about
why that is the case shortly.
This guest is a formidable forcein the events world who
(01:26):
promises to make your eventsanything but forgettable.
Kraig Cleiman has beendescribed as a fusion of Elon
Musk and Mick Jagger.
The founder of Rock theSeasweet, Kraig Kleeman Live and
an established showrunner forglobal events like the World
Leaders Forum, which means, yes,he has hung out with presidents
and prime ministers.
Kraig skillfully infuses hisevents with a heady mix of
(01:51):
theater, music and comedy tomake them not just captivating
but purposeful as well.
He's also a bestselling authorof two books.
Kraig, welcome to the show, sohappy to talk to you.
Kraig Kleeman (02:03):
It is a pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Adelaine Ng (02:07):
Well, I just want to let our listeners know
straight up that in any othersetting, I'm not cool enough to
be talking to someone like KraigKleeman.
I mean, you imbue the rock androll vibe, even though there's
corporate entrepreneurship rightthrough your veins, and it's a
really interesting mix.
Now for those who can't seeKraig because you're listening
(02:28):
on the podcast, Kraig is wearingdark glasses and a thick black
hairband that keeps all hisfunky blonde hair in place, and
I have a feeling he likesattention, which is fantastic,
because he is all about havingyour events make a memorable
impact.
Have I got that right so far,Kraig?
So far so good.
Kraig Kleeman (02:49):
I think we're rocking in the free world right
now, so let's do it.
Adelaine Ng (02:54):
Well, the things you've done and are known for, I
mean, that list is as long asmy arm, so this conversation can
go in a few directions and Iwas wondering where to start.
But I was curious aboutHollywood as your inspiration,
because you say that that'swhere you take a lot of your
cues from.
Can you tell us about thatconnection for you and how
you've applied that to theevents world?
Kraig Kleeman (03:15):
I sure will.
And I will tell you.
I think this crazy journey ofmine got started back all the
way in middle school.
That was when I put together myfirst performance and performed
it, you know, on stage, andwent on to do that in high
school and college.
So I think in school I got areal taste of it.
But, boy, I have been a big fanof rock, music and theater and
(03:40):
all of the performing arts myentire life and much of my life,
you know, kind of spun moreinto the business realm, but
never forsaking the importanceof the performing arts.
And what I have discovered, Ithink, just in a new and a fresh
way, is that corporatemessaging benefits tremendously
(04:05):
when integrated with theperforming arts.
And there's a lot of ways to doit Music, stage,
improvisational comedy,choreography.
Boy, when we start integratingthose creative elements into
events, and particularlycorporate events, it just
(04:26):
mesmerizes the audience andenhances, you know, retention
and learning and all of it.
So I think it always birthed inmy love and desire for the
performing arts.
Then, you know, went intobusiness and then in time began
to integrate it With the manythings that I was doing in
business.
Adelaine Ng (04:45):
Why do you think we're not doing that very often
in the events?
Kraig Kleeman (04:49):
Well, you think you know that that's a good
question and I think it's inpart because and it truly does
have the ability torevolutionize events, no
question.
But I think in business, peoplego into business in part
because they think analyticallyand they think quantitatively
(05:11):
and Typically, when folks, youknow, exercise that part of
their brain as the dominantfeatures for Thinking and
irrational thought and all of it, then sometimes we miss that
creative element and don't drawit out.
A lot of creative thinkingfolks go into.
(05:31):
You know I've authored twobooks.
You know one of them I'm realproud, he had 11 bestseller
lists on Amazon.
I think a lot of folks whothink, act and operate
creatively Often don't maketheir way into the business
world.
So I think lots of CMOs andlots of events directors and
content directors and eventsmanagers and such tend to think
(05:55):
more along the lines ofanalytics and and quantitative
more so than necessarilyCreativity.
And it's been kind of fun tofuse that into the corporate
environment.
Adelaine Ng (06:06):
I think what I've seen more often Recently of it
Well, over recent years is thatwe've seen more inspirational
content come into, you know, themost stuffy of meetings.
So that's been a really goodtrend to see, because I think
the corporates are recognizingthat human need that needs to be
filled and that somehow also isgood for corporate objectives.
(06:28):
But when you infuse thatHollywood touch, you know that
music touch, that rock and rollvibe, does that take it another
level.
I mean, you know what?
Have you studied in that space?
You know what?
Kraig Kleeman (06:40):
what we've really found is that I think sometimes
we all agree it's.
Sometimes it takes a little bitof research to confirm the
obvious.
But you know, people reallyrally around music.
Of course we know they rallyaround food and beverage, but
music is a real rallying pointand so is the performing arts,
just coincidentally, almost asideline.
(07:01):
I spent the first three weeksin July just a little time off,
some vacation, did a road tripup in the north woods around,
like the Great Lakes region andLake Superior and all, and I
made it a point to be sure thatsome of my lodging was in places
where I could go to some of thelocal theaters and I saw
(07:22):
Shakespeare production and I sawanother great production that
was out of venue, right on thewater, on Lake Michigan's
fabulous venue and theinspiration that comes from it.
It transcends keynote afterkeynote after keynote and in
that dogamere.
I love corporate events.
I've spoken at them, I wasshowrunner for the world leaders
(07:44):
forum.
I've had the privilege of beingon a guest panelist alongside
President George W Bush, tonyBlair, the former prime minister
of the UK, and learnedtremendously.
But what I've found is thatwhile we can have great speakers
who have awesome contentparticularly like folks that are
(08:04):
world leaders that I justmentioned earlier.
Events still benefittremendously from the
integration of the performingarts and it can happen in a
whole number of ways and and Ishould say also Is the
customization is the key.
So, for example, you know, whenwe do performances we take
(08:25):
classic rock songs like thinkRolling Stones, you know, think
Led Zeppelin, you know all thosebands, but we all the songs
that everybody knows.
But we rework the lyrics sothey're spot on for the audience
and commensurate with thetopics and the trends that that
are relevant to that particularaudience.
Adelaine Ng (08:47):
Does it work, for I mean, not everybody's into rock
and roll.
You know, some people are moreinto the classical or the
musical.
So does it, you know?
I guess in some people's mindsit's like I'm not sure that this
is going to be everyone's cupof tea.
What would you say to that?
Kraig Kleeman (09:02):
Yeah, great question.
Let me just say that the rockmusic is one of typically three
elements when we do aperformance.
The other two elements areimprovisational comedy as well
as onstage choreography, and sothe improvisational comedy is
real easy to customize for anyaudience.
If you're working with a goodteam and a great improv comedy
(09:26):
director, then it's a matter ofjust working on key words, key
topics, and you know, with myperformances I like everything
to be rated G, so I'm constantlytelling my talent hey guys, you
know, you know foul languageunder any circumstance, nothing
political.
We want our audience to beattracted to every aspect of
this show and never alienated.
(09:46):
But in answer to your question,the improv comedy and the
onstage dancing and we put ourperformance even out in the
audience to celebrate peoplehave a birthday and got a whole
song and a gift.
You know that goes to people'sbirthdays that particular month.
But back to your question.
I developed Rock, the C-Suiterooted in classic rock music
(10:08):
because I'm kind of a classicrocker myself.
But I was just at an event.
I was on stage in Las Vegas atCaesar's Palace and one of the
senior managers from a companynamed Essence maybe you've heard
of Essence Magazine.
They do events all over theplace.
And we were both speakers andwe met backstage and he said
(10:30):
great, I've got to talk with youbecause I don't want you to do
Rock the C-Suite, but hip hop,our audience wants hip hop.
And I said, yes, sir, and so westarted a planning process
already to do exactly the samething, but hip hop music, so we
can transcend genres and dowhatever the audience requires.
Adelaine Ng (10:50):
Wow, that'll be.
I guess that would categorizethis fusion music, but I'm sure
people would just love that,especially if something's been
created for them or right beforetheir very eyes.
That would be amazing.
So if people haven'texperienced you at an event, I'm
just thinking what can theyexpect?
Because obviously, from thevideos that we can see online,
(11:11):
it's like you completely takeover the stage and you just
inject the whole atmosphere witha bolt of energy and, of course
, there's a rock and roll musicthat you bring into it.
But what exactly can peopleexpect?
Yeah, great question.
Kraig Kleeman (11:25):
So there are two elements of the performing group
that we have.
One is the full blown show thatwe've been talking a little bit
about the band, the dancers,you know the improv comedy and a
lot of folks saying that wecreate love, the idea, fantastic
.
Just don't have the budget todo like a two hour, three hour
show.
And then we talk to them aboutwhat we call Kraig Kleeman live
(11:50):
and that's where it just me whocomes and we sometimes will have
dancers come along if we canfind some locally and have a lot
of confidence in thechoreography and the rehearsals
in advance.
But then that we call themenergy bumps and so I'll be on
stage.
Sometimes I'll be the MC aspart of the energy bumps.
Sometimes there will be anotherperson who's the MC.
(12:11):
But what can happen inconferences?
Many conferences follow thetraditional model of keynote,
keynote, keynote, breakouts,back for keynote and finally
networking time, and that getskind of tough.
You know, that gets a littlebit tough for the audience.
So when I do the Kraig Kleemanlive, which is in effect the
(12:32):
subset of rock, the C-suite inbetween each speaker I come on
stage.
The music is going crazy.
Get everyone up dancing.
We will often create a customrock video that is written
specifically for that audience,and my studio musicians will
(12:52):
record it.
We'll put it to video and youknow we did one about Mark Benny
off of Salesforce.
That was just stunning, had thepeople going crazy.
We did another one for thefounders of HubSpot and the
lyrics come up, you know, withthe video itself.
So we just mix a whole lot ofthings into even a Kraig Kleeman
(13:14):
live performance and that'swhere the course, of course, is
far less, because we're notbringing the band, we're not
bringing the improv team.
But I think what they canexpect and answer to your
question is a lot of energy, alot of music, getting people up
in some good, old fashioned, fun, clean entertainment that still
(13:35):
accommodates the learning thatwe want to have happen, that the
producers want to have happenin each of the conferences.
Adelaine Ng (13:42):
I think what I like about you is that you know
there's an element ofunpredictability with you and
yet there is a total trust thatyou're in safe hands because
you're well aware of what thecorporate side wants and you're
seeking to help them fulfillthose objectives in your own way
.
And that unpredictability comesin a way of how you mix rock
(14:04):
and roll, you mixentrepreneurship, you mix in
comedy and you also throw insome deep thinking, and I'm like
that's a very eclectic mix, andI've probably missed a couple
of other things as well that youknow I haven't seen.
So it's a really interestingapproach.
Are you actually leaving roomat events for that element of
(14:26):
well, let's see what happens?
Or, you know, let's see what wecan do with this?
Kraig Kleeman (14:30):
Well, first of all, thank you for the kind word
.
Just a little thought.
Well, I appreciate that and youknow any answer to your
question.
I would tell you that theanswer is yes, yes and yes.
And what I mean by that is thatAny performer who really, in my
view, who is really in tune withtheir own creative self and
(14:50):
their ability to manifestcreativity, there's always
something that will happen onthe stage that was unplanned and
spontaneous but was the resultof just the creativity, the
forethought, maybe priorexperiences that will just come
out of that performer.
And so and I do want to say Iappreciate, I do make sure that
(15:15):
everything we do when we workwith our clients is to be within
the guardrails of theirobjectives and their goals, and
I've spoken at plenty of theseconferences that I do feel I've
got a great idea for what theywant to happen, but it adds a
lot of value.
But I do want to say thatthere's always a little
spontaneous thing that willhappen, or just a new way of
(15:39):
phrasing things or a new way ofdoing things that went beyond
the run-of-show outline that wecreated for the event, and
almost every time there isgoodness, as long as we stick
within the parameters of theguardrails of the event.
My philosophy is keep it ratedG.
As long as we always do that,those spontaneous moments will
add value.
Adelaine Ng (16:00):
Yeah, there is a group within the
entrepreneurship community thatjust believes you should just be
you and if swear words arecoming out of your mouth, hey,
you be you and you'll justattract your tribe.
That's not an issue and thatgives you your freedom to be
yourself.
But I was also thinking, youknow, that can also be jarring
for some people.
So I don't know, I guess it's apersonal choice for some people
(16:22):
to what balance they want tostrike.
But at corporate events, Iagree with you.
I mean the less friction youcan create, bad friction or
unnecessary friction you create,the better it is.
I mean you want to create theright kind of friction, right?
I mean the kind that makes youthink, the kind that gives you
ideas, the kind that sort ofjolts you out of the monotony
and you know what's the normalof the normal.
(16:43):
So it's an interesting kind ofspace.
Do any examples come to mindwhen you think about past
experiences where you've had animpromptu moment and somehow
it's just managed to cometogether anyway and fulfill that
corporate objective?
You?
Kraig Kleeman (17:00):
know that's a good question.
So a couple of things, becausethere was a lot that you just
said that I really appreciateand I'll try to answer the
impromptu thing.
But to depth down on what yousaid a moment ago, I agree with
you.
I think words matter, you know,and words can bring life and
they can bring death and theycan bring goodness and they can
bring ineffectiveness.
(17:20):
And I want to be rememberedalways as a person who brought
words of encouragement, whobrought words of inspiration,
depth of thought, for sure, andchallenging, absolutely, you
know, but never sort of tearingdown.
So I just wanted to affirm thestatement you were making a few
moments ago, Impromptu, you know.
(17:42):
I think some of the coolimpromptu moments that have
happened for me have been rhymes.
I'm a bit of a poet.
I published a couple of books.
Neither of them are poetry, butI do have a couple of other
books on my hard drive that arevery poetic-centric, and so I've
had a few moments where poetryjust came out of nowhere and it
(18:05):
sort of fit for the moment.
It was kind of high energy andit came out almost like a Well
soliloquy would probably be toostrong of a word, but it came
out sometimes in athought-provoking moment, other
times in a wildly humorousmoment, but I think the humor
element and the rhyme.
(18:26):
Sometimes it just comes out ofgreat claim and I don't know
where it came from, but that'shappened on stage more than once
and always a good outcome, I'dlike to think anyway.
Adelaine Ng (18:35):
That is so cool, because we never hear a little
bit of poetry.
I mean, first of all, we don'thear a lot of poetry.
It's one of those things thatis I don't know.
It's kind of drowning in allthe noise that we've got around
us now.
We don't encounter unless youparticularly Google poetry
events in my area and go to thatit's kind of I'm not hearing
(18:56):
about poetry that much, butwhenever I do encounter it it's
like it takes my mind to adifferent space, more
contemplative.
It's just quite an enrichingexperience.
So I love that.
That's your little vibe, thatyou just jump into an event at
any time, spontaneously.
That's amazing.
But what I also do appreciateabout you is that you're not
(19:17):
just a big whirlwind of ideas,you do research to figure out
what people want, and I lovethat.
You interviewed Was it 300executives about their event
experiences.
So you were really interestedto know how can I make this a
better experience for you thenext time?
So tell us about thoseinterviews.
I mean, when were theyconducted?
(19:38):
What did you ask them?
What did they tell you you?
Kraig Kleeman (19:41):
know it was.
I appreciate you bringing it upbecause we put a lot of effort
into it.
What I wanted to do was Iwanted to validate some
assumptions that I had from myown experience.
Adelaine Ng (19:52):
Sometimes it's pretty easy to go down a rabbit
drill a little too far beforeit's been validated you know so,
and then find out it doesn'twork, and then that costs a lot
of money too.
Exactly.
Kraig Kleeman (20:02):
I think that, bingo, you're exactly right.
So we conducted with 300executives, director of VP,
c-suite, all in Fortune 500 orglobal 2000 companies, and we
just were pretty straightforwardand we just put it out there.
We asked questions, we made itvery easy for them to respond
(20:24):
and we asked questions that youmight imagine hey, what is your
view of this and how do youprioritize that?
And you know, what do you like?
You know, overall we found thatthey were generally
dissatisfied with the currentformat.
The other thing I think that wediscovered was the thing that
folks who attend conferenceslook forward to the most is the
(20:45):
networking time.
And you think about thenetworking time.
There's usually some music andthere's usually, you know, some
sort of beverage and perhapssome food.
And I'll never forget, we askeda question, you know we gave
these terms like what phrasewould you use to describe the
events that you've been to inthe last, you know, 12 or 24
(21:08):
months?
And these are folks that allsaid they go to at least two or
three events or more per year,and so we have some things like
Way Cool, you know, just Okay.
And the one selection that waschosen by far the most 49% of
the time was the word snoozefest.
Oh, my goodness.
Oh, so that's what we knew.
(21:31):
Hey, you know what?
There's some room in themarketplace for someone to bring
some pizzazz and some energyand some music and some goodness
, good old fashioned inspirationto corporate events.
So that research helped us alot and I'm glad that you
brought that up.
Adelaine Ng (21:47):
Did that lead to any changes to you know the way
you do Rock the Sea Suite orKraig Kleeman live?
I mean, were there anyunexpected insights that changed
the game a little bit or givenyou some tweaks?
Kraig Kleeman (22:00):
I think it really confirmed what I was thinking.
I think some of the new datathat I received from it was and
I guess I alluded to this alittle bit was the level of
dissatisfaction with keynotekeynote, keynote breakout,
breakout, keynote rabbanetworking.
You know the leveldissatisfaction with that sort
(22:23):
of template.
That's become quite standard.
What I did not know was that,when asked the questions
directly, how much they offeredthe fact that networking was
their number one goal and thenumber one thing that they
almost always universallyenjoyed most about the
conferences and of coursethere's great value at
(22:43):
networking and a performancedoesn't necessarily increase
networking, but I think it'sthat human interaction, yeah,
pressing the flash and shakinghands and having meaningful,
even though brief, meaningfulconversations.
People are wanting that moreand more.
It was reflected in theresearch that we've done.
Adelaine Ng (23:02):
I'm still a little bit in shock.
That was it.
49% people of respondents saidthat they would describe the
events that they had been to asa snooze fest and like why
aren't companies actuallylistening to that and wouldn't
they not have seen attendancenumbers drop and that would have
been a signal to them?
Why have we kept doing the samething, even though we regarded
(23:25):
as a snooze fest and basicallyessentially a waste of time, and
yet we're still running thesame treadmill.
Kraig Kleeman (23:32):
I think it's a great question and I'll harken
back a little bit to some thingswe spoke about at the time.
I do think, listen,corporations are businesses, you
know, and corporate entities.
I have three.
I have an offshore team.
I have another company, the newworkforce based in Southeast
Asia.
I have more than 200 employeesnow Hope to have a thousand
(23:53):
within the next 12 or 18 months.
It's growing so fast.
But the truth is that, just likethat business, most businesses,
particularly at the C-suite,the planning level, operates
more in terms of analytics,quantitative thinking, analysis,
product development, productdemand.
(24:15):
And, in all honesty, when I'mworking with my other venture,
the new workforce, I put on myanalytics hat, I put on my
marketing hat, I put all that on.
But I think the reason isbecause most folks in business
have gone that route due to thequantitative, analytical element
of their own gift mix and thatfolks would have a dominant
(24:38):
creative gift in their gift mix,typically go towards theater or
acting or television.
Or, you know, last night I wentto see a band named Paramore.
It's a great group, it was agreat show, you know, good rock
band a little bit later than mynormal time in terms of when
(24:59):
they came out, they kind of hita little bit later, but I think
that most folks who have thatcreative mojo move into the
creative arts as their primaryprofession and so I think it's
just getting a little bit ofevangelism, getting the message
out and letting you know folksand planners know that, hey, you
can spice things up and you canreally add value to your event
(25:23):
and the messaging bycommunicating the messaging
through the performing arts.
Adelaine Ng (25:28):
So it sounds like we're really still at the
awareness stage, so there'splenty of room to grow in this.
I wanted to ask you as well,because I'm thinking that you
know, it's probably time for alot of corporations and
organizations to do that surveywithin their own organizations,
within their own employees.
You know, what did you think ofthe event last year?
(25:49):
Do you think we can do better?
But I was also wondering isthere an art to getting honest
and really useful answers fromthose interviews?
Because I often wonder aboutthose questionnaires that we get
at the end of events forfeedback and if they actually do
provide quality insights to thepeople who are asking them,
because most people are actuallyin a hurry when they're filling
them out.
(26:10):
So I'm just wondering how wouldyou go about, you know, getting
quality answers when you'retrying to get that feedback?
You know.
Kraig Kleeman (26:17):
I am not the survey expert, you know, but
I've always felt that from amethodology perspective, the
shorter the better, the easierit is for the folks to answer
the questions, the better, andcertainly the data set or the
folks that you're, in effect,you're addressable market.
You want to pick very, verycautiously.
(26:38):
So I think in our instance, youknow, what we did was very
cautiously determined who wereached out to, we made the
survey as simple and easy toreply to and respond to as
possible and then we of coursegave an opportunity for them to
click on a link and have aninterview with us.
(26:58):
And then we also some of thosewho did not, of course, click on
the interview, who gave verythoughtful answers.
We reached back out to them.
How many would you be willing tomeet for 10 minutes just on
Zoom, just to share a littlemore?
Our founder would like to meetwith you and we had a lot of
folks who are willing to hop ona Zoom call for 10 or 15 minutes
(27:19):
and we just called itessentially an events briefing.
You know they would meet us fora 10 minute events planning
briefing, events dialoguebriefing, get a pointed briefing
and in 10 minutes it justcontinued to confirm and
validate what we learned fromthe survey they would send out.
Adelaine Ng (27:38):
Now, did you love that as much as I did?
I thought it was a great way ofshowing real interest in what
your attendees or members reallythought about your event, with
the intent of serving thembetter next time and creating
repeat business.
You've been listening to partone of my interview with Kraig
Kleeman.
If you enjoyed what Kraig hasbeen sharing, make sure you join
(27:58):
me for part two next week forhis thoughts on things like
branding.
Kraig Kleeman (28:02):
I think it's very , very possible to overbrand.
Adelaine Ng (28:05):
Kraig's companies have also generated 30 million
US dollars in just four years,and he'll be sharing his
personal rituals that's resultedin this massive success, and I
can tell you it's not what I wasexpecting.
Don't forget if you found valuein today's show, please click
the follow button if you'd liketo be notified when new episodes
drop.
I'll catch you next week forpart two, to uncover more
(28:28):
stories and strategies for asuccessful future.
Till then, cheers.
I'll never forget .
We asked a question what phrasewould you use to describe the
events that you've been to inthe last, you know, 12 or 24
months?
And the one selection that waschosen by far the most was the
word snooze fest.
Adelaine Ng (00:18):
Are you just as surprised as I was to hear that?
Welcome to Upon Arrival, a showthat uncovers stories and
strategies that make up all themoving parts of business events
tourism?
I'm Adelaine Ng and I've justcome back from an events
destination showcase inAustralia's Gold Coast, famous
for its golden beaches, vibrantsurf life and exhilarating theme
(00:40):
parks and, oh my goodness, didthey put on a show.
From enchanting garden lunchesto breathtaking acrobatics, to
fun and scary characters thatemerged at SeaWorld.
As a travel trade journalist,I'm blessed that I get to see
all these ideas event plannerscan bring to life, turning what
can easily be mundane corporateconferences into memorable
(01:03):
experiences.
So I may have mistakenlyassumed that surely no one
settles for forgettable eventsthese days, but, as it turns out
, what I found out from my guestthis week is that more
companies that we might imaginedo, and we'll hear more about
why that is the case shortly.
This guest is a formidable forcein the events world who
(01:26):
promises to make your eventsanything but forgettable.
Kraig Cleiman has beendescribed as a fusion of Elon
Musk and Mick Jagger.
The founder of Rock theSeasweet, Kraig Kleeman Live and
an established showrunner forglobal events like the World
Leaders Forum, which means, yes,he has hung out with presidents
and prime ministers.
Kraig skillfully infuses hisevents with a heady mix of
(01:51):
theater, music and comedy tomake them not just captivating
but purposeful as well.
He's also a bestselling authorof two books.
Kraig, welcome to the show, sohappy to talk to you.
Kraig Kleeman (02:03):
It is a pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Adelaine Ng (02:07):
Well, I just want to let our listeners know
straight up that in any othersetting, I'm not cool enough to
be talking to someone like KraigKleeman.
I mean, you imbue the rock androll vibe, even though there's
corporate entrepreneurship rightthrough your veins, and it's a
really interesting mix.
Now for those who can't seeKraig because you're listening
(02:28):
on the podcast, Kraig is wearingdark glasses and a thick black
hairband that keeps all hisfunky blonde hair in place, and
I have a feeling he likesattention, which is fantastic,
because he is all about havingyour events make a memorable
impact.
Have I got that right so far,Kraig?
So far so good.
Kraig Kleeman (02:49):
I think we're rocking in the free world right
now, so let's do it.
Adelaine Ng (02:54):
Well, the things you've done and are known for, I
mean, that list is as long asmy arm, so this conversation can
go in a few directions and Iwas wondering where to start.
But I was curious aboutHollywood as your inspiration,
because you say that that'swhere you take a lot of your
cues from.
Can you tell us about thatconnection for you and how
you've applied that to theevents world?
Kraig Kleeman (03:15):
I sure will.
And I will tell you.
I think this crazy journey ofmine got started back all the
way in middle school.
That was when I put together myfirst performance and performed
it, you know, on stage, andwent on to do that in high
school and college.
So I think in school I got areal taste of it.
But, boy, I have been a big fanof rock, music and theater and
(03:40):
all of the performing arts myentire life and much of my life,
you know, kind of spun moreinto the business realm, but
never forsaking the importanceof the performing arts.
And what I have discovered, Ithink, just in a new and a fresh
way, is that corporatemessaging benefits tremendously
(04:05):
when integrated with theperforming arts.
And there's a lot of ways to doit Music, stage,
improvisational comedy,choreography.
Boy, when we start integratingthose creative elements into
events, and particularlycorporate events, it just
(04:26):
mesmerizes the audience andenhances, you know, retention
and learning and all of it.
So I think it always birthed inmy love and desire for the
performing arts.
Then, you know, went intobusiness and then in time began
to integrate it With the manythings that I was doing in
business.
Adelaine Ng (04:45):
Why do you think we're not doing that very often
in the events?
Kraig Kleeman (04:49):
Well, you think you know that that's a good
question and I think it's inpart because and it truly does
have the ability torevolutionize events, no
question.
But I think in business, peoplego into business in part
because they think analyticallyand they think quantitatively
(05:11):
and Typically, when folks, youknow, exercise that part of
their brain as the dominantfeatures for Thinking and
irrational thought and all of it, then sometimes we miss that
creative element and don't drawit out.
A lot of creative thinkingfolks go into.
(05:31):
You know I've authored twobooks.
You know one of them I'm realproud, he had 11 bestseller
lists on Amazon.
I think a lot of folks whothink, act and operate
creatively Often don't maketheir way into the business
world.
So I think lots of CMOs andlots of events directors and
content directors and eventsmanagers and such tend to think
(05:55):
more along the lines ofanalytics and and quantitative
more so than necessarilyCreativity.
And it's been kind of fun tofuse that into the corporate
environment.
Adelaine Ng (06:06):
I think what I've seen more often Recently of it
Well, over recent years is thatwe've seen more inspirational
content come into, you know, themost stuffy of meetings.
So that's been a really goodtrend to see, because I think
the corporates are recognizingthat human need that needs to be
filled and that somehow also isgood for corporate objectives.
(06:28):
But when you infuse thatHollywood touch, you know that
music touch, that rock and rollvibe, does that take it another
level.
I mean, you know what?
Have you studied in that space?
You know what?
Kraig Kleeman (06:40):
what we've really found is that I think sometimes
we all agree it's.
Sometimes it takes a little bitof research to confirm the
obvious.
But you know, people reallyrally around music.
Of course we know they rallyaround food and beverage, but
music is a real rallying pointand so is the performing arts,
just coincidentally, almost asideline.
(07:01):
I spent the first three weeksin July just a little time off,
some vacation, did a road tripup in the north woods around,
like the Great Lakes region andLake Superior and all, and I
made it a point to be sure thatsome of my lodging was in places
where I could go to some of thelocal theaters and I saw
(07:22):
Shakespeare production and I sawanother great production that
was out of venue, right on thewater, on Lake Michigan's
fabulous venue and theinspiration that comes from it.
It transcends keynote afterkeynote after keynote and in
that dogamere.
I love corporate events.
I've spoken at them, I wasshowrunner for the world leaders
(07:44):
forum.
I've had the privilege of beingon a guest panelist alongside
President George W Bush, tonyBlair, the former prime minister
of the UK, and learnedtremendously.
But what I've found is thatwhile we can have great speakers
who have awesome contentparticularly like folks that are
(08:04):
world leaders that I justmentioned earlier.
Events still benefittremendously from the
integration of the performingarts and it can happen in a
whole number of ways and and Ishould say also Is the
customization is the key.
So, for example, you know, whenwe do performances we take
(08:25):
classic rock songs like thinkRolling Stones, you know, think
Led Zeppelin, you know all thosebands, but we all the songs
that everybody knows.
But we rework the lyrics sothey're spot on for the audience
and commensurate with thetopics and the trends that that
are relevant to that particularaudience.
Adelaine Ng (08:47):
Does it work, for I mean, not everybody's into rock
and roll.
You know, some people are moreinto the classical or the
musical.
So does it, you know?
I guess in some people's mindsit's like I'm not sure that this
is going to be everyone's cupof tea.
What would you say to that?
Kraig Kleeman (09:02):
Yeah, great question.
Let me just say that the rockmusic is one of typically three
elements when we do aperformance.
The other two elements areimprovisational comedy as well
as onstage choreography, and sothe improvisational comedy is
real easy to customize for anyaudience.
If you're working with a goodteam and a great improv comedy
(09:26):
director, then it's a matter ofjust working on key words, key
topics, and you know, with myperformances I like everything
to be rated G, so I'm constantlytelling my talent hey guys, you
know, you know foul languageunder any circumstance, nothing
political.
We want our audience to beattracted to every aspect of
this show and never alienated.
(09:46):
But in answer to your question,the improv comedy and the
onstage dancing and we put ourperformance even out in the
audience to celebrate peoplehave a birthday and got a whole
song and a gift.
You know that goes to people'sbirthdays that particular month.
But back to your question.
I developed Rock, the C-Suiterooted in classic rock music
(10:08):
because I'm kind of a classicrocker myself.
But I was just at an event.
I was on stage in Las Vegas atCaesar's Palace and one of the
senior managers from a companynamed Essence maybe you've heard
of Essence Magazine.
They do events all over theplace.
And we were both speakers andwe met backstage and he said
(10:30):
great, I've got to talk with youbecause I don't want you to do
Rock the C-Suite, but hip hop,our audience wants hip hop.
And I said, yes, sir, and so westarted a planning process
already to do exactly the samething, but hip hop music, so we
can transcend genres and dowhatever the audience requires.
Adelaine Ng (10:50):
Wow, that'll be.
I guess that would categorizethis fusion music, but I'm sure
people would just love that,especially if something's been
created for them or right beforetheir very eyes.
That would be amazing.
So if people haven'texperienced you at an event, I'm
just thinking what can theyexpect?
Because obviously, from thevideos that we can see online,
(11:11):
it's like you completely takeover the stage and you just
inject the whole atmosphere witha bolt of energy and, of course
, there's a rock and roll musicthat you bring into it.
But what exactly can peopleexpect?
Yeah, great question.
Kraig Kleeman (11:25):
So there are two elements of the performing group
that we have.
One is the full blown show thatwe've been talking a little bit
about the band, the dancers,you know the improv comedy and a
lot of folks saying that wecreate love, the idea, fantastic
.
Just don't have the budget todo like a two hour, three hour
show.
And then we talk to them aboutwhat we call Kraig Kleeman live
(11:50):
and that's where it just me whocomes and we sometimes will have
dancers come along if we canfind some locally and have a lot
of confidence in thechoreography and the rehearsals
in advance.
But then that we call themenergy bumps and so I'll be on
stage.
Sometimes I'll be the MC aspart of the energy bumps.
Sometimes there will be anotherperson who's the MC.
(12:11):
But what can happen inconferences?
Many conferences follow thetraditional model of keynote,
keynote, keynote, breakouts,back for keynote and finally
networking time, and that getskind of tough.
You know, that gets a littlebit tough for the audience.
So when I do the Kraig Kleemanlive, which is in effect the
(12:32):
subset of rock, the C-suite inbetween each speaker I come on
stage.
The music is going crazy.
Get everyone up dancing.
We will often create a customrock video that is written
specifically for that audience,and my studio musicians will
(12:52):
record it.
We'll put it to video and youknow we did one about Mark Benny
off of Salesforce.
That was just stunning, had thepeople going crazy.
We did another one for thefounders of HubSpot and the
lyrics come up, you know, withthe video itself.
So we just mix a whole lot ofthings into even a Kraig Kleeman
(13:14):
live performance and that'swhere the course, of course, is
far less, because we're notbringing the band, we're not
bringing the improv team.
But I think what they canexpect and answer to your
question is a lot of energy, alot of music, getting people up
in some good, old fashioned, fun, clean entertainment that still
(13:35):
accommodates the learning thatwe want to have happen, that the
producers want to have happenin each of the conferences.
Adelaine Ng (13:42):
I think what I like about you is that you know
there's an element ofunpredictability with you and
yet there is a total trust thatyou're in safe hands because
you're well aware of what thecorporate side wants and you're
seeking to help them fulfillthose objectives in your own way
.
And that unpredictability comesin a way of how you mix rock
(14:04):
and roll, you mixentrepreneurship, you mix in
comedy and you also throw insome deep thinking, and I'm like
that's a very eclectic mix, andI've probably missed a couple
of other things as well that youknow I haven't seen.
So it's a really interestingapproach.
Are you actually leaving roomat events for that element of
(14:26):
well, let's see what happens?
Or, you know, let's see what wecan do with this?
Kraig Kleeman (14:30):
Well, first of all, thank you for the kind word
.
Just a little thought.
Well, I appreciate that and youknow any answer to your
question.
I would tell you that theanswer is yes, yes and yes.
And what I mean by that is thatAny performer who really, in my
view, who is really in tune withtheir own creative self and
(14:50):
their ability to manifestcreativity, there's always
something that will happen onthe stage that was unplanned and
spontaneous but was the resultof just the creativity, the
forethought, maybe priorexperiences that will just come
out of that performer.
And so and I do want to say Iappreciate, I do make sure that
(15:15):
everything we do when we workwith our clients is to be within
the guardrails of theirobjectives and their goals, and
I've spoken at plenty of theseconferences that I do feel I've
got a great idea for what theywant to happen, but it adds a
lot of value.
But I do want to say thatthere's always a little
spontaneous thing that willhappen, or just a new way of
(15:39):
phrasing things or a new way ofdoing things that went beyond
the run-of-show outline that wecreated for the event, and
almost every time there isgoodness, as long as we stick
within the parameters of theguardrails of the event.
My philosophy is keep it ratedG.
As long as we always do that,those spontaneous moments will
add value.
Adelaine Ng (16:00):
Yeah, there is a group within the
entrepreneurship community thatjust believes you should just be
you and if swear words arecoming out of your mouth, hey,
you be you and you'll justattract your tribe.
That's not an issue and thatgives you your freedom to be
yourself.
But I was also thinking, youknow, that can also be jarring
for some people.
So I don't know, I guess it's apersonal choice for some people
(16:22):
to what balance they want tostrike.
But at corporate events, Iagree with you.
I mean the less friction youcan create, bad friction or
unnecessary friction you create,the better it is.
I mean you want to create theright kind of friction, right?
I mean the kind that makes youthink, the kind that gives you
ideas, the kind that sort ofjolts you out of the monotony
and you know what's the normalof the normal.
(16:43):
So it's an interesting kind ofspace.
Do any examples come to mindwhen you think about past
experiences where you've had animpromptu moment and somehow
it's just managed to cometogether anyway and fulfill that
corporate objective?
You?
Kraig Kleeman (17:00):
know that's a good question.
So a couple of things, becausethere was a lot that you just
said that I really appreciateand I'll try to answer the
impromptu thing.
But to depth down on what yousaid a moment ago, I agree with
you.
I think words matter, you know,and words can bring life and
they can bring death and theycan bring goodness and they can
bring ineffectiveness.
(17:20):
And I want to be rememberedalways as a person who brought
words of encouragement, whobrought words of inspiration,
depth of thought, for sure, andchallenging, absolutely, you
know, but never sort of tearingdown.
So I just wanted to affirm thestatement you were making a few
moments ago, Impromptu, you know.
(17:42):
I think some of the coolimpromptu moments that have
happened for me have been rhymes.
I'm a bit of a poet.
I published a couple of books.
Neither of them are poetry, butI do have a couple of other
books on my hard drive that arevery poetic-centric, and so I've
had a few moments where poetryjust came out of nowhere and it
(18:05):
sort of fit for the moment.
It was kind of high energy andit came out almost like a Well
soliloquy would probably be toostrong of a word, but it came
out sometimes in athought-provoking moment, other
times in a wildly humorousmoment, but I think the humor
element and the rhyme.
(18:26):
Sometimes it just comes out ofgreat claim and I don't know
where it came from, but that'shappened on stage more than once
and always a good outcome, I'dlike to think anyway.
Adelaine Ng (18:35):
That is so cool, because we never hear a little
bit of poetry.
I mean, first of all, we don'thear a lot of poetry.
It's one of those things thatis I don't know.
It's kind of drowning in allthe noise that we've got around
us now.
We don't encounter unless youparticularly Google poetry
events in my area and go to thatit's kind of I'm not hearing
(18:56):
about poetry that much, butwhenever I do encounter it it's
like it takes my mind to adifferent space, more
contemplative.
It's just quite an enrichingexperience.
So I love that.
That's your little vibe, thatyou just jump into an event at
any time, spontaneously.
That's amazing.
But what I also do appreciateabout you is that you're not
(19:17):
just a big whirlwind of ideas,you do research to figure out
what people want, and I lovethat.
You interviewed Was it 300executives about their event
experiences.
So you were really interestedto know how can I make this a
better experience for you thenext time?
So tell us about thoseinterviews.
I mean, when were theyconducted?
(19:38):
What did you ask them?
What did they tell you you?
Kraig Kleeman (19:41):
know it was.
I appreciate you bringing it upbecause we put a lot of effort
into it.
What I wanted to do was Iwanted to validate some
assumptions that I had from myown experience.
Adelaine Ng (19:52):
Sometimes it's pretty easy to go down a rabbit
drill a little too far beforeit's been validated you know so,
and then find out it doesn'twork, and then that costs a lot
of money too.
Exactly.
Kraig Kleeman (20:02):
I think that, bingo, you're exactly right.
So we conducted with 300executives, director of VP,
c-suite, all in Fortune 500 orglobal 2000 companies, and we
just were pretty straightforwardand we just put it out there.
We asked questions, we made itvery easy for them to respond
(20:24):
and we asked questions that youmight imagine hey, what is your
view of this and how do youprioritize that?
And you know, what do you like?
You know, overall we found thatthey were generally
dissatisfied with the currentformat.
The other thing I think that wediscovered was the thing that
folks who attend conferenceslook forward to the most is the
(20:45):
networking time.
And you think about thenetworking time.
There's usually some music andthere's usually, you know, some
sort of beverage and perhapssome food.
And I'll never forget, we askeda question, you know we gave
these terms like what phrasewould you use to describe the
events that you've been to inthe last, you know, 12 or 24
(21:08):
months?
And these are folks that allsaid they go to at least two or
three events or more per year,and so we have some things like
Way Cool, you know, just Okay.
And the one selection that waschosen by far the most 49% of
the time was the word snoozefest.
Oh, my goodness.
Oh, so that's what we knew.
(21:31):
Hey, you know what?
There's some room in themarketplace for someone to bring
some pizzazz and some energyand some music and some goodness
, good old fashioned inspirationto corporate events.
So that research helped us alot and I'm glad that you
brought that up.
Adelaine Ng (21:47):
Did that lead to any changes to you know the way
you do Rock the Sea Suite orKraig Kleeman live?
I mean, were there anyunexpected insights that changed
the game a little bit or givenyou some tweaks?
Kraig Kleeman (22:00):
I think it really confirmed what I was thinking.
I think some of the new datathat I received from it was and
I guess I alluded to this alittle bit was the level of
dissatisfaction with keynotekeynote, keynote breakout,
breakout, keynote rabbanetworking.
You know the leveldissatisfaction with that sort
(22:23):
of template.
That's become quite standard.
What I did not know was that,when asked the questions
directly, how much they offeredthe fact that networking was
their number one goal and thenumber one thing that they
almost always universallyenjoyed most about the
conferences and of coursethere's great value at
(22:43):
networking and a performancedoesn't necessarily increase
networking, but I think it'sthat human interaction, yeah,
pressing the flash and shakinghands and having meaningful,
even though brief, meaningfulconversations.
People are wanting that moreand more.
It was reflected in theresearch that we've done.
Adelaine Ng (23:02):
I'm still a little bit in shock.
That was it.
49% people of respondents saidthat they would describe the
events that they had been to asa snooze fest and like why
aren't companies actuallylistening to that and wouldn't
they not have seen attendancenumbers drop and that would have
been a signal to them?
Why have we kept doing the samething, even though we regarded
(23:25):
as a snooze fest and basicallyessentially a waste of time, and
yet we're still running thesame treadmill.
Kraig Kleeman (23:32):
I think it's a great question and I'll harken
back a little bit to some thingswe spoke about at the time.
I do think, listen,corporations are businesses, you
know, and corporate entities.
I have three.
I have an offshore team.
I have another company, the newworkforce based in Southeast
Asia.
I have more than 200 employeesnow Hope to have a thousand
(23:53):
within the next 12 or 18 months.
It's growing so fast.
But the truth is that, just likethat business, most businesses,
particularly at the C-suite,the planning level, operates
more in terms of analytics,quantitative thinking, analysis,
product development, productdemand.
(24:15):
And, in all honesty, when I'mworking with my other venture,
the new workforce, I put on myanalytics hat, I put on my
marketing hat, I put all that on.
But I think the reason isbecause most folks in business
have gone that route due to thequantitative, analytical element
of their own gift mix and thatfolks would have a dominant
(24:38):
creative gift in their gift mix,typically go towards theater or
acting or television.
Or, you know, last night I wentto see a band named Paramore.
It's a great group, it was agreat show, you know, good rock
band a little bit later than mynormal time in terms of when
(24:59):
they came out, they kind of hita little bit later, but I think
that most folks who have thatcreative mojo move into the
creative arts as their primaryprofession and so I think it's
just getting a little bit ofevangelism, getting the message
out and letting you know folksand planners know that, hey, you
can spice things up and you canreally add value to your event
(25:23):
and the messaging bycommunicating the messaging
through the performing arts.
Adelaine Ng (25:28):
So it sounds like we're really still at the
awareness stage, so there'splenty of room to grow in this.
I wanted to ask you as well,because I'm thinking that you
know, it's probably time for alot of corporations and
organizations to do that surveywithin their own organizations,
within their own employees.
You know, what did you think ofthe event last year?
(25:49):
Do you think we can do better?
But I was also wondering isthere an art to getting honest
and really useful answers fromthose interviews?
Because I often wonder aboutthose questionnaires that we get
at the end of events forfeedback and if they actually do
provide quality insights to thepeople who are asking them,
because most people are actuallyin a hurry when they're filling
them out.
(26:10):
So I'm just wondering how wouldyou go about, you know, getting
quality answers when you'retrying to get that feedback?
You know.
Kraig Kleeman (26:17):
I am not the survey expert, you know, but
I've always felt that from amethodology perspective, the
shorter the better, the easierit is for the folks to answer
the questions, the better, andcertainly the data set or the
folks that you're, in effect,you're addressable market.
You want to pick very, verycautiously.
(26:38):
So I think in our instance, youknow, what we did was very
cautiously determined who wereached out to, we made the
survey as simple and easy toreply to and respond to as
possible and then we of coursegave an opportunity for them to
click on a link and have aninterview with us.
(26:58):
And then we also some of thosewho did not, of course, click on
the interview, who gave verythoughtful answers.
We reached back out to them.
How many would you be willing tomeet for 10 minutes just on
Zoom, just to share a littlemore?
Our founder would like to meetwith you and we had a lot of
folks who are willing to hop ona Zoom call for 10 or 15 minutes
(27:19):
and we just called itessentially an events briefing.
You know they would meet us fora 10 minute events planning
briefing, events dialoguebriefing, get a pointed briefing
and in 10 minutes it justcontinued to confirm and
validate what we learned fromthe survey they would send out.
Adelaine Ng (27:38):
Now, did you love that as much as I did?
I thought it was a great way ofshowing real interest in what
your attendees or members reallythought about your event, with
the intent of serving thembetter next time and creating
repeat business.
You've been listening to partone of my interview with Kraig
Kleeman.
If you enjoyed what Kraig hasbeen sharing, make sure you join
(27:58):
me for part two next week forhis thoughts on things like
branding.
Kraig Kleeman (28:02):
I think it's very , very possible to overbrand.
Adelaine Ng (28:05):
Kraig's companies have also generated 30 million
US dollars in just four years,and he'll be sharing his
personal rituals that's resultedin this massive success, and I
can tell you it's not what I wasexpecting.
Don't forget if you found valuein today's show, please click
the follow button if you'd liketo be notified when new episodes
drop.
I'll catch you next week forpart two, to uncover more
(28:28):
stories and strategies for asuccessful future.
Till then, cheers.
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