E126: Data Center Economics and AI Energy Requirements w/ Patrick McKenzie and Azeem Azhar

Today on Upstream, we’re releasing Patrick MacKenzie's interview with Azeem Azhar which originally aired in February 2025 on Complex Systems. They discuss the economics and infrastructure of data centers, comparing historical infrastructure rollouts to modern AI-driven data center needs, and explore the implications of exponential power demands, including innovations like small modular nuclear reactors and geothermal energy.

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RECOMMENDED PODCASTS: 

🎙️Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie

Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH 

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11/id1753399812

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LINKS:

Exponential View: https://www.exponentialview.co/

OpenAI Hails $500 Billion Stargate Plan: 'More Compute Leads to Better Models': https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-sp500-nasdaq-live-01-22-2025/card/openai-to-release-new-gpt-model-ai-agents-soon-MrUYupSuChEdJh07oIWp 

Byrne Hobart’s ‘Boom: Bubbles and the End of Stagnatiom’: https://www.amazon.com/Boom-Bubbles-Stagnation-Byrne-Hobart/dp/1953953476 

Inside the World's Largest AI Supercluster xAI Colossus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf8EPSBZU7Y&t=142s 

Leopold Aschenbrenner’s SITUATIONAL AWARENESS: The Decade Ahead: https://situational-awareness.ai/ 

Dave Kasten’s The Essay Meta: http