February 20, 2025 • 54 mins
Exploring the life of William Cooper, we unpack the influence of his work, "Behold the Pale Horse," and its profound impact on conspiracy culture. This episode contemplates the balance of skepticism and trust in governmental institutions, offering insights into how misinformation spreads and affects public perception.
• Discussion on William Cooper's background and influence
• Examination of key claims made in "Behold the Pale Horse"
• Analysis of the 9/11 attacks' effect on conspiracy narratives
• Exploration of misinformation and its dangers
• Reflections on Cooper's legacy and its relevance today
• Encouragement to think critically about the information consumed
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to US Phenomenon, where possibilities
are endless.
Put down those same oldheadlines.
It's time to expand your mindand question what if?
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
From the Pacific Northwest in the shadow of the
1962 world's fair, the spaceneedle.
Good evening, good morning,good afternoon.
Wherever you are on god's greenearth, I am your host, mario
magana.
This is us phenomenon.
Tonight we uncover somethingthat has been on my plate for
(00:46):
such a long, long time now, aswe talk about conspiracies and I
know right now the conspiraciesare just all over the place you
got the good conspiracies, yougot the bad, some that are like
extremely outrageous.
I mean, let's be honest,there's a ton of stuff Like for
(01:08):
myself.
If you're on the edge of yourseat and you're a big conspiracy
theorist, this episode'sdefinitely for you.
If you're watching us ononairmariocom, thank you for
watching us.
If you're a part of one of ouraffiliate radio stations KOSW,
kapy or our flagship station KVIthank you for hanging out with
(01:29):
us.
You can always text me anytime,24-7-775-990-5151.
Tonight we're going to talkabout one of the biggest I would
call it the Bible ofconspiracies.
Now hang with me on this one,because this goes back to 1991.
(01:52):
This guy wrote this book.
It's called Behold the PaleHorse.
Now William Cooper has.
We're going to dive into this,we're going to let you know who
William Cooper is.
Kind of go over some of theconspiracies about William
Cooper that he wrote.
(02:12):
He used to host a radio show aswell.
Let's kind of get into some ofall that stuff.
But I know that there's so muchto cover.
But for someone like myself whonow has been hosting this show
for quite some time, I mean Iknow we've tongue-in-cheek
talked about William Cooper butnever have done a deep dive
(02:35):
about William Cooper.
Yes, we've had Mark Jacobson on, who wrote a book about William
Cooper, pale Horse Writer.
There's been tons of hip-hopartists that have talked about
William Cooper in their songs.
Let's get into a little bitabout who William Cooper is in
this.
Next, while you hang out with uson one of our radio stations,
(02:58):
or maybe if you're listening onthe podcast, you can go to any
of your favorite podcastingplatforms and search us
phenomenon.
Coming soon we're going to bedoing us phenomenon live.
So if you're a local businessand you'd love to have us uh be
a part, maybe we'll, uh we coulddo a live show at your local
establishment.
Send me an email mario at uh onair mariocom, or you can also
(03:23):
send it to me, mario atnorthwest phenomenon.
So good luck.
Or you can text me 775-990-5151.
So everyone's like talks aboutthese uh different uh
conspiracies and this one ishuge to me.
So we know uh I I brieflytalked about the book, uh behold
(03:44):
the pale horse, but here's alittle bit about uh william
cooper.
He was a mayor, he wasbasically he was born in 19.
Uh, he was born in 1943.
He served the us uh navy and heclaimed that he had naval, had
worked in naval intelligence.
Cooper was well known for hisbook, uh behold the pale horse,
(04:06):
which was published in 1991, andwe're going to go over some of
those uh details about the bookfrom global conspiracies,
government cover-ups, secretsocieties and the
extraterrestrial involvement.
So hang on to your seats.
If you're driving home, this isdefinitely the show for you.
(04:27):
Some of this we're gonna, someof it may be debunked and we'll
kind of get into that.
But uh, the history for me oflike how this came to be was,
you know, back in like 97, 98,you know back in like 97, 98,.
You know, driving home fromBoeing one night and I came
(04:48):
across the show of all showsyeah, it was the show of all
shows and next thing, you know,I just was hooked.
They were talking about aliens,arts, majestic voice just
carrying you through the eveningand the next thing, you know, I
was already home, but I wassitting in the car just
continuing to listen to thesegment, just captivated by that
(05:12):
, and I hope that we continue todo that here, and that's what
sparked me to continue to be afan of that type of stuff, but
always keep an open mind aboutthings, right To be a forward
thinker, always ask questions,and then today, in today's
society, I think that that stillholds some true strong values
(05:36):
with that, um.
So let's continue getting on toa little bit.
Here's some key, uh, key claimsto behold the pale horse.
Now we know that william cooper, cooper, wrote this book.
He also hosted a radio show.
But let's discuss some of thosekey claims in behold the pale
horse.
What are the most notableconspiracies cooper wrote about?
(05:58):
You know, cooper wrote thisbook from cover.
There's a wide range ofconspiracies in this book.
If you haven't had the chance,it's available.
You can always check it out, uh, online.
It is available, um to read.
You can read the book.
I'm, uh, if you're watching ushere, it is there you go, um.
(06:19):
You know, since I don't have aproducer, I do it all myself.
So, uh, uh, there it is.
If you're watching us, aWilliam Cooper book can be found
on Amazon.
But, um, some of the his, uh,some of this, uh, his, his
claims in the book.
What he wrote about was thisthe existence of a secret world,
(06:40):
uh, you know, a secret society,a secret world government, a
new world order these werethings that were talked about in
the book.
You know.
I could tell you that Iremember claims to him saying
that you know, the government isafter us and essentially why.
He explained what you know theinterstates were built for the
(07:01):
post offices.
If you have a chance to readthis book, you will be blown
away by this.
He also talks about thecover-up of the ufos, the, the,
the extraterrestrial life, theclaim that the hiv aids virus
was man-made disease.
Obviously, we know that we'llcontinue to talk about this, but
this was in the book.
Uh, I'm not.
(07:22):
You know these are things thathe wrote about in his book.
And allegations about theIlluminati, the secret society
and manipulating global events.
You know these are things thatwere talked about in this book.
Now, someone who read this bookin 2000, just before 9-11, oh,
let me tell you, I was shook.
(07:44):
11, oh, let me tell you I wasshook.
You, you read this book and hethere are claims that touch and
go about that william cooper waswriting, uh, in his book about
something that was this eventwas going to happen in the early
2000s.
Now, mind you, this book cameout in 1991.
You know so there was a longtime coming.
(08:10):
So did he predict it?
Was he just throwing darts outthere?
I mean, you have to take yourown stance on the book, but I
will tell you it has made methink after all these years,
(08:31):
even having put that book awayand not really delving into that
book in any recent form, I willsay this it didn't come back to
me until, like, I started tohear things during the pandemic
that reminded me of the book,and we'll get into that a little
bit later in the program, inthe show, when we'll talk about
and we'll discuss those things.
(08:52):
I just, he made you think he wasnot a fan.
I mean, he was on an island byhis own.
He wasn't a huge Art Bell fan.
He was not an Alex Jones fan.
You know, I know Alex Jonesused to listen to him.
He would call into his show.
I believe the show was calledOne Hour in Time or something
(09:15):
like that.
I forget the name of the showthat he had, but he did host a
radio show.
I forget the name of the showthat he had, but he did host a
radio show and I know, I believe, that there are recordings of
Alex Jones calling the show backin the day and someone probably
look at Alex, probably lookingup to him.
(09:36):
You know, and obviously we allknow, that Alex Jones does his
own thing now, but I would saythat he thing now.
But I would say that he williamcooper was someone who was on
an island by himself, lived outin the, you know out by himself.
He even predicted his own death.
(09:57):
So I'm not saying he was he wasable to to predict these things
or have anything of that nature.
The word is escaping me at thismoment, but when we talk about
these types of things, we'retalking about being free
(10:17):
thinkers, not being sheep, beinglion.
That was his statement.
These were things that he wouldtalk about in his show, in the
book to be a free thinker.
So the evidence that you know,analyzing and going over this
(10:38):
data, I mean as someone would,how credible was he with these
allegations, with his criticalanalysis.
Was he just throwing smoke andthrowing stuff in the air to see
if it would stick?
I mean, some of his claims werelack of concrete evidence and
(11:02):
widely regarded as conspiracytheories.
The New World Order whilesecret societies, elite groups,
have existed, there's nocircumstantial evidence of
global conspiracies controllingthe world events.
Or are we in a time where wecan now look at these and maybe
(11:26):
make a different determination?
Was there a UFO cover-up?
While the documents, whilethere's tons of documents what
documents does the governmenthave with the UFOs and the
claims of extraterrestrialinvolvement and remaining, you
know, speculative?
(11:47):
You know the claims of the HIVAIDS scientific community have
thoroughly debunked this ideathat HIV was a man-made disease.
Okay, so we know that when youget into the Illuminati
discussion, the idea of thepowerful and hidden
organization's controllableglobal events more myth than
(12:10):
reality be a free criticalthinker.
That doesn't cost us anything.
I mean, with all theinformation that's out there,
this stuff would have runrampant if this was like a new
release.
(12:31):
The book itself has had me onthe edge for years.
But being able to like putaside and you know my
differences of, okay, what'sreal, what's reality, what's
circumstantial?
What's the evidence?
What's reality, what'scircumstantial?
What's the evidence?
What's true, what's not true?
If you want to send us a text,you can 775-990-5151.
(12:59):
I answer each and every one ofthose texts.
They come straight directly tome.
If you're not a subscriber tothe podcast, please subscribe
and like our podcast.
We're trying to continue to grow.
We're going to be doing somemore.
We're going to be out in thestreet a little bit more, doing
more events in the public.
We want to be in the community,we want to spark engagement, we
(13:22):
want to stimulate the economy.
So we look forward to doingsome of that.
But let's get back into thisWilliam Cooper thing, because
it's so much fun to talk aboutsomething that was for me
reading this book, being a young20-something-year-old.
Then 9-11 hits and I'm like, ohmy gosh.
I mean, where were you during9-11?
(13:45):
Do you remember that day?
Oh, I was terrified, straightterrified.
I know the conspiracies thatare out there about 9-11.
You know we've had tammymichaels on to talk about 9-11
who, uh, does a show on.
She has a home improvement showon 97.7 and 1000.
(14:10):
Back in Seattle.
Tammy was, you know, had graced,had brought to us on US
Phenomenon her stories.
She was at the Millennium Hotelthat day.
Her video has been used inKhalid Sheikh Mohammed's trial.
(14:33):
She's been on the stand there.
She has an incredible storythat when 9-11 comes back we'll
have to have her come back on,but that day was stamped in my
memory forever.
I'm sure for you as well.
Where was the president?
(14:53):
What was really going on in thegovernment?
Was it really run by DickCheney or was the president
really making moves?
It was such an incredible timethe advancements we had with
technology, but still limitedtechnology for the president,
who was airborne in an air, youknow, in air force one, having
(15:14):
to go to these different sitesand bunkers and things of that
nature wild times that we wereliving in then.
And and that day has changedour history forever, forever.
It's just incredible,incredible.
I mean, I remember being soyoung I was doing a Monday night
(15:35):
evening radio show and told theprogram director that I was
going to break format and donewscast.
But what was interesting thatnight was driving into the radio
station and then getting thereand being close to an air flight
path and not hearing anyairplanes.
(15:57):
It was eerie and quiet.
It was wild to me, I wasterrified.
I mean, you know, you read thisbook and being that young and
still you know very much,learning who I was as a
broadcaster or maybe as anindividual as well, learning who
(16:20):
I was and how that reallyaffected me.
I mean, so many people's liveswere changed that day.
You know people lost families.
You know the police andfirefighters, you know that went
to respond to that tragic event, not knowing if they were ever
going to come back.
(16:40):
There are some greatdocumentaries out there and I
believe that I always watch thatone documentary with the two
French documentarydocumentarians who put together
a documentary about afirefighter, a greenhorn or a
newbie or whatever they callthem, and their documentary
(17:00):
eventually turns into thedocumentary of 9-11.
Documentary eventually turnsinto the documentary of 9-11.
What a fantastic, a fantasticdocumentary, uh, just really, of
of the events that happenedthat day.
Um, but as we continue to talkabout william cooper and the
things that william cooper didand I know that, I mean I know
that he really talked down to alot of people in regards to who
(17:22):
he really liked and who hedisliked um, you know from from
the art bell pieces to you know,you know being bothered by, uh,
you know from different peoplecalling in, but he made it known
who he liked and what hethought of these individuals and
what they really were.
But as we continue to talkabout, uh the book itself.
(17:47):
You know, behold the pale horse.
If you haven't read it andyou're like I am a conspiracy
theorist and this would be abook that you should read, I'm
not, I'm not.
You know you can get it onamazon or whatever and do your
thing.
But getting back to some of thethings that he he wrote about
was Cooper wrote that he had asignificant impact, particularly
(18:09):
within the UFO and militiacircles.
I mean, this was influential.
It often cited a key text inthe militia movement and has
influenced other conspiracytheories, including the
involvement that involved the Q,also known as QAnon.
(18:31):
This book's popularity hascontributed to a spread of
misinformation and it has, Ibelieve, an erosion to the
(18:55):
public's trust in governments,in governments' institutions.
And when you talk about that, Imean here's what I'll say.
I wasn't.
We're talking.
Years have gone by.
You know, lived my life started.
The idea of doing a radio show.
(19:17):
Us Phenomenon was coming to bea thing just before the pandemic
.
I was doing somethingcompletely different.
The pandemic hit, you startedto see this movement.
The movement had metastasized.
(19:43):
You know, if you're a QAnon fanor not, the Q came to become
very big during the 2000s, the2020.
And that's when it sparked in myhead when I started to see
headlines of the QAnon.
(20:03):
I was like wait, what the hellis going on?
Who are these guys?
But some of the stuff startedto click.
And when I say that it wasthings that were a part of
something, I was like where isthis information coming from?
(20:24):
And I had to go sit for asecond and really do a deep dive
and really go back and saywhere the hell did?
I remember hearing this from.
This isn't the first time andit took a few minutes, maybe a
few days, let's be honest.
It took me some time, but whenI figured I was like, oh my, it
(20:51):
was like it was coming from thebook Behold the Pale Horse.
Right or wrong, everyone hasthe freedom to express
themselves.
Right.
But it was interesting to seehow much of that they were using
(21:12):
.
You know clips, sheep versuslion, being a free thinker,
being a constitutional, you knowbeing prideful of the
government and just questioningprideful of the government and
are just questioning.
But I still question some ofthe things that were going on
(21:37):
during that time, becauseWilliam Cooper said the
government was after you.
The government was after you.
Do you think that's true now,or do you think that the
government's here to save us, asI'm always reminded that the
(22:02):
government is here to work foryou?
That's how I look at it.
It's like you are, you work forus.
We've elected you, right, we'veelected you.
So in those pieces, I think thatWilliam Cooper was someone that
questioned everything, thegovernment, things that was
(22:23):
going on, democracy versus arepublic.
I mean he made all these thingsknown.
If it wasn't for you know, youknow his latest, you know things
that he would discuss on hisradio broadcast.
William Cooper was someone whodefinitely was on his own, not
(22:55):
someone who was spending timewith groups of people.
He's kind of his own thing.
I mean he would do publicspeaking events and things of
that nature, but he was on hisown.
Even when he died, I meanCooper, he was shot by the
(23:20):
sheriff.
He was known as someone whowould publicly talk about
certain things.
He would promote this book, histheories on his radio broadcast
and his public appearances.
He became increasingly involvedin a militia movement, as known
(23:41):
as for his anti-governmentrelic.
Now, that, to me, states that,like I said earlier, william
cooper was not someone whotrusted the government.
He was like you don't get tohave the keys to the car.
(24:02):
No, that's not happening.
He's like questioningeverything in the book.
I mean everything in this bookstates like why the interstate
highways were built, what hethought could be of use for the
post offices.
And it's crazy because he talksabout you know that you could
(24:26):
possibly have to report to yourlocal post office and then taken
to an internment camp.
This is in the book.
I'm not making this up.
This is in that book thatfreaked me out but that
continues to share or to explainor say this dude was like nah,
(24:47):
man, don't trust your government, you just can't.
You know, he talks about thejfk assassination.
He talks about this stuff.
He thought it was a cover-upwith the cia and things of that
nature.
That's all in the book.
(25:07):
Someone like myself who wouldsay, ah, I was terrified I mean
there was full out pages in thefirst when I bought the book.
The book has been modified, thebook has been changed.
There are some things that arenot in the book.
(25:30):
That to me, him being soparanoid, being so worried about
what was going on with thegovernment, with local
government, you know, havingthis anti-government movement, I
(25:51):
don't know.
I would say that if WilliamCooper was alive today, he would
be asking a lot of questions.
He would be sounding off alarms.
That is my belief.
I believe that he was that typeof individual to say what is
going on, Don't buy what theyare selling.
(26:14):
That's what I get out of thebook.
That's what I would say thatWilliam Cooper would say he
would be talking about thesethings in the book, about why
the government did these things,why they were covered up, what
was going on?
Why did they do this?
Why was the JFK files coveredup?
(26:36):
If that's something that you'reinto as a conspiracy theorist,
fantastic content, right, it'sfantastic.
If you're a UFO enthusiast,it's in there.
He talks about that.
(26:56):
Now, if you talk about a newworld order, he talks about that
too.
Does that scare you?
Because it scared me, not somuch now as a grown adult, but
being young, impressionable,reading this book.
Oh, I was terrified.
I was like, oh my gosh, thepost office could be like you
(27:21):
would have to report to the postoffice and then say you're
going to this encampment.
I was like whoa.
I was blown away, like there'sno way that that could this
possibly be, and how thefamilies are all tied together
the rockefellers, the clintonsand things of that nature all
talked about in this book.
Yes, some of this stuff wasdebunked.
(27:47):
Is william cooper probably oneof those out there that was?
I don't want to say I, I, Idon't know, I don't know, but I
will say this good or bad aboutwilliam cooper?
Think that's what I will say.
(28:07):
He made you think.
And going back to all thesedifferent hosts, or these
different guests that come on myshow and different shows around
the world, and for those whoare consuming these types of
shows and watching it now on aplatform, a platform of a social
media platform and getting 20seconds of it, getting excerpts
(28:31):
that are, you know, clipped downto seconds, full stories.
In 20 seconds, you have thefull well, you have the
narrative of what they aretrying to promote or share.
It's just one of those thingsthat I would say changes things,
because you're now consuming iton so many different levels AI,
(28:57):
misinformation, what's true,what's not true?
I know there's a generation ofindividuals that don't watch TV.
Everything is streamed for themor they're looking via their,
their social media apps.
Hey, I think I'm with it.
Evolution and change is aconstant, but what's what
(29:18):
doesn't change is how we consumethis, but making sure we
continue to be a free thinkerand remind ourselves.
Maybe I should look into that alittle bit further before I
just make that piece ofinformation gospel and say, oh
yeah, that's true, oh yeah,that's right, because it could
(29:39):
not.
It could be, but it could alsonot be true, and I think, in a
day and age that we live in,where social media posts are
like out there, just, we're doomscrolling, right as adults,
kids.
Well, we tell our kids not todo scroll, but we're still doing
it, right, we're doom scrolling, we're looking through all,
(30:00):
we're consuming content onlevels that are unbelievably
grotesque.
This is the new drug thatpeople are getting that euphoric
high.
You don't even need to smokecigarettes anymore.
You got it right here on in thepalm of your hand.
You know it was.
(30:21):
It was interesting.
I was listening to a podcastwhere um, an artist, was talking
about why he doesn't have Appleproducts.
You know, for those who believein Apple, who believe in Apple
but who believe in the Bible andbelieve in the story of Adam
and Eve, where they talk aboutthe bite of the apple, where
(30:44):
Adam took the bite of the apple,if you look at the back of the
apple has a bit a bite out of itand that to him, he felt that
that was not something that hewanted.
He carries an old school phone,and good for him.
But as we continue to gothrough these different you know
, having these powerful phonesin our hands if it's an Android
(31:07):
or whatever you use, if it'sApple or Android, google,
whatever Whatever your platformis you're consuming the news on
a different level.
Now it's instantaneous.
You're getting updates pushedto your notification so you get
these types of updates right,and sometimes you don't want
(31:27):
that right.
You're getting these before youeven make it home to watch the
news or you drive home.
You're not listening to theradio anymore, although I hope
you are.
I hope you're listening to theradio or consuming the podcast.
You know we get our informationin so many different forms.
(31:50):
Now, if it's old schoolwatching it over the TV, you
know most of the youngergeneration are getting.
They're consuming it via socialmedia and that's for us old
school people like, oh no,that's not real, can't be.
There's some good stuff outthere.
But there's some.
Oh no, that's not real Can't be.
(32:11):
There's some good stuff outthere, but there's some bad
stuff too, as we all know.
Same with TV, I mean, there'salways.
They come the good with the bad, right.
But again, to wrap this pieceand point up, is understanding
where you're getting andconsuming this stuff from,
because you can get it fromanywhere.
But if it's misinformation,being able to decipher what is
(32:39):
actually true and what's not,because, look, we live in a day
and age where it's instantaneous, we want it now, we want it
fast, and we wouldn't be donewith it, right, I mean, that's
just how it is.
That being said, you know,going back to you know william
cooper, who was william cooper,how he was his own thing, his
(33:00):
own little entity.
The legacy of william cooperspans decades, from hip-hop, the
hip hip hop community, to anewer generation of people
morphing or using this book asbiblical.
(33:22):
It's unfortunate that WilliamCooper is no longer alive.
He passed away in 2001.
He passed away in 2001.
Sherratt's deputies were tryingto attempt to arrest him in
Edgar, arizona.
The circumstances surroundinghis death remain controversial,
with some claiming it was atargeted assassination due to
(33:43):
his outspoken views.
Now, that could be possible,but so can a lot of other things
too.
Right, we know that williamcooper had some trouble with the
law, um, and they were comingto arrest him for other previous
(34:06):
crimes.
So, um, you're right.
Yes, yes, that piece iscontroversial.
I don't know that he wastargeted for assassination
because he was an outspokenindividual.
I mean, it's possible.
I mean also the CIA could havekilled Kennedy.
But I digress, that's stillinformation we don't know about
just yet.
We don't.
(34:28):
I mean, it's so fluid right now, right now, right, I mean,
we're waiting for that.
I mean on pins and needles forus, for myself, yes, I'm, I'm
excited, I want to know what'sgoing on, right, I?
I mean, I want to know, I wantto, I want to have that peace
where I can be like oh yeah,that's what actually happened to
to the, to the former president.
Well, what I mean?
You know what happened to thepresident?
(34:48):
I want to know what happened toour dude, what happened to our
guy.
Let's continue our conversationwith what has happened.
Let's discuss William Cooper's,let's talk about life after
(35:09):
William Cooper has died.
You know what surrounded hisdeath, what happened in the
years following the publicationof his book?
You know, we know that, behold,the Pale Horse came out in 91
and was promoted through his hisradio show public appearances
and he, like I said, he became ahuge, huge push um with, you
(35:36):
know, anti-militia movements.
Um, it's interesting when wetalk about this.
I don't understand why you knowit talks about.
Let me go back here for asecond.
Inside the book he talks about alot of things, including crime
(35:57):
and why people are in jail.
And when we talk about thosethings, I think that's why the
hip-hop community really took tothe book.
You know, the hip-hop communitywrote about this guy in so many
different lyrics and you know,behold, the Pale Horse was
written in so many differentWu-Tang Clan Jay-Z.
(36:19):
A lot of artists that you maynot be familiar with but used
the book.
They there was something thatthey were able to connect with
in the book.
They felt like they hadsomething here.
They were able to have aconnection with William Cooper,
though William Cooper knewnothing about that type of
(36:42):
lifestyle other than he wrote abook about these different
things where people kind oflevitated to.
Maybe they thought or feltcircumstantial that, yes, I was
affected by going to jail andbeing part of the system and not
being able to get out of that.
I mean, he talks about allthese things in the book about
why people are in prison, goingto jail and being part of the
(37:02):
system and not being able to getout of that.
I mean talks about all thesethings in the book about why
people are in prison and onceyou get in that cycle you just
never come out, and I think thatI believe that that's why the
hip-hop community really took tobehold the pale horse, because
you can't really I don't knowwhat a Caucasian dude in his
(37:24):
mid-40s and 50s can relate to a20-something year old hip-hop
artist.
It didn't match, but it matchesin the book Because he was able
to touch different individualson a very wide spectrum of races
and ethnicities.
Maybe you had a family memberthat was incarcerated, but he
(37:48):
talks about that and that'swhere they probably got hooked
on.
Maybe they are a conspiracy,maybe they don't trust the
government, and that's wherethey latched on.
For me there wasn't anylatching, it was just something
that was there that I read about.
(38:09):
I mean having an understandingand trying to stay somewhat away
from the conspiracy shows backin the 2000s, because there was
a lot going on, a lot ofcommunication, a lot of fluid
movement of speculations andmisinformation being spread out
there.
Was it right?
(38:30):
Was it wrong?
I just know that, for me, I wassomeone who couldn't consume it
, even to this day.
I mean, I try not to consumethat kind of that much
information.
I want to know what's going on,I want to ask questions, I want
to know as we continue, uh, tokind of talk about william
(38:53):
cooper.
Here's my thoughts on a lot ofthings.
Here's a conspiracy that Idon't know, that it boasts high,
I don't know.
I just think to me that thisconspiracy like I'm excited to
read about the JFK files, I'mexcited to learn about you know
(39:16):
what happened to RFK and Seniorand MLK?
I want it all, but not at thecost of defaming these
individuals.
That's not.
You know they're dead, they'reno longer with us.
If we're going to be truthseekers, let's get to the truth
(39:38):
of what happened.
But are we truly ready for that?
Are we ready to learn whatactually happened on 9-11, on
the assassination of MartinLuther King or the assassination
of Robert F Kennedy?
(39:59):
Or the assassination of asitting president, john F
Kennedy, or the assassination ofa sitting president, john F
Kennedy?
Was there two shooters?
Did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone?
Was this a conspiracy?
Was this a setup to say youknow what?
Was the mob involved?
(40:21):
Was it the CIA?
Was it the driver that shot him?
I know there's, you know,conspiracy theories out there
right now that the driver shothim from the subruder film.
That are individuals talkingabout this thing.
I've never been to Daily Plaza.
I know that we've had differentguests that come on to share
(40:44):
their thoughts on it and be ableto say, oh yeah, you could
shoot that, you could do that,you could hit them from the book
depository.
I don't know that.
I, I mean, I'm not one withthat kind of strategic.
You know that's not something Iwould do.
(41:06):
But again, I'm not out heretrained to do that.
So was it a coincidence?
Or did we just find out thatLee Harvey Oswald acted alone?
It was the lone shooter, shothim, killed him.
Shooter shot him, killed him.
(41:29):
But I think the thing thatmakes this conspiracy so rich
with speculation is because leeharvey also died, you know, by
jack ruby's hands.
You know jack ruby showed up,shot him.
So of course that conspiracyjust takes on a whole, morphs
into a whole new thing.
(41:49):
I, you know, I'm ready to know,but don't be surprised if you're
blown away by what actuallyhappened, because I think
there's something bigger goingon.
What actually happened?
Because I think there'ssomething bigger going on.
I'm excited about what's tohappen, what's to come, but
(42:10):
always to ask the questions Isthis right, are we doing the
right thing?
I'm telling you, we do theseshows and you're like I don't
know.
I mean, it's possible,anything's possible.
I mean, think about the peoplethat come on the show to talk
about, you know, being abductedby a gray alien.
(42:32):
It's not my truth, it's his orhers.
You know, maybe you've seensomething.
I don't know.
Maybe you've seen something, Idon't know.
Maybe you saw a ghost in yourhouse.
That's your truth.
That's not mine.
I've never had that.
These are things that spark myinterest in why I got into a lot
(42:58):
of this conspiracy theories.
If there's one thing that Iwill say about going back and
listening to William Cooper onsome of his stuff that you can
find on YouTube, it's.
I mean, he packs a pretty goodpunch.
He definitely calls things outas it is and as he views it.
(43:21):
I would believe that callsthings out as it is and as he
views it.
I would believe that he was amachine when it came to
promoting how he went about it,how he continued to do
engagements, how he became anexpert with his naval
intelligence and using that tosay he was pretty upset after
(43:44):
leaving the military, afterbeing discharged, and he felt
like his government turned onhim.
I mean, I'm sure there are aton of people that are out there
that are would say the samething.
They're like I served mycountry, I've done this, this
for country, and God God's gotyour back, but do you feel like
(44:05):
your government has turned onyou?
And this is what's fueled?
This is what fueled him.
The government turned on him,wasn't there to support him.
He talks about this in the book.
The government turned it.
He felt like the governmentturned their back on him,
(44:26):
rightfully so.
He didn't.
You know, I believe that For me.
I believe that our militaryIndividuals Thank you for
serving, but sometimes I feellike they get the short end of
the stick Out here doing thingsfor our you know, for our
country, and hopefully thecountry will continue to evolve
(44:50):
and change to be able to giveour military men and women who
are serving the ability to do atransition program, just like
they go into boot camp.
Maybe it's a boot camp, a bootcamp to transition, to get out
of the military and we're nottalking about like the other
type, like we're talking aboutgoing back to civilian life to
(45:11):
do some type of boot camp likethat.
Give them the social skills,make sure they go through
counseling, things of thatnature, because the government
does their job to build theseinto warriors, killers,
intelligence, to be able totrain them.
But they also need training tocome back out to be able to do
(45:33):
normal life If it's being apolice officer or if it's
serving in some other capacity,and that's what happened.
It talks about that in the bookin some other capacity and
that's what happened.
It talks about that in the book.
William Cooper talks about, inBehold the Pale Horse, what
actually kind of transpired andwhy he changed.
What made him that way.
Why did he turn his back on thegovernment?
(45:54):
But at that point he was likeI'm going to share as much
information as I possibly can,but writing about the
Rockefellers, these big familiesand these secret societies and
why the government built theseinfrastructures and put them in
place.
He talks about all this in thebook.
(46:15):
It's his truth.
That is his story.
Again, I'm not here to say thatWilliam Cooper was right or
wrong.
I'm just here to share what Ilearned from the book, what I
believe some individuals havetaken in the past, recent past,
and amplified it and brought itback to life Good, bad or
(46:40):
indifferent.
It is one of those things thatif someone wrote a book that was
all pro-government things ofthat nature, it would be a
different outlook on that, rightI mean.
So it really boils back towilliam cooper.
Had it out for his government,he was going to do everything he
(47:02):
possibly could to out thegovernment, share information
that may be on a grandiose scaleTo share it on his radio show,
in the book, in when he did hisspeaking engagements.
And it was his duty, that'swhat he wanted to do.
(47:25):
He wanted to share these thingsso that other individuals knew
what was up.
We know that he lived thiscomplex life.
Some of the stuff that he wroteabout it's not verified, some
of it is misinformation.
But we have to understand as asociety that we need to be able
(47:49):
to do our own homework, tocontinue to be free thinkers for
ourselves, for our familymembers, because, remember, at
the end of the day, we are ourown ceos of our own entity, of
our families.
You know being a huge.
You know just being American,just proud, right?
(48:09):
I mean we want to continue that, but be free thinkers at that
as well.
And remember to be lying andnot cheap.
One of his quotes that healways would say you know, don't
be a sheep, be a lion.
You know you started seeingthose hats pop back up Again.
(48:30):
Good for them.
You know, whoever theentrepreneur in somebody to be
able to bring those types ofthings back Again.
We know that this book has beencontroversial over the decades.
I would say that I take it witha grain of salt now.
But what would William Coopersay about what's going on today?
(48:53):
I would believe that he wouldsay, as we know it to be true,
due to him being MrAnti-Government, I would say
that he would be questioning alot of things right now.
Maybe they're great, maybethey're not great, but I will
(49:14):
tell you this he would bequestioning everything that was
going on, everything fromprobably in all the
administrations, not just thisrecent one or the past one all
the administrations.
He would be skeptical, with alot of skepticism.
(49:34):
He would be out there drummingand saying this can't be right.
Make sure you're thinking, aswe know, that William Cooper was
a free thinker, someone whocontinued to be that, someone
(49:57):
who would cultivate thisinformation to put in one book,
this book.
Behold the Pale Horse.
Now, like I said, williamCooper, controversial from start
to finish, with all theunverified information he
(50:24):
undoubtedly made you think, withall the unverified information
he undoubtedly made you think.
But remember this WilliamCooper's legacy is so complex.
While the book has undoubtedlyinfluenced conspiracy culture,
it's also important to recognizethe dangers of promoting
(50:48):
unverified claims andmisinformation.
Cooper's life and work servesas a reminder that we need to be
critical thinking andskepticism in evaluating every
conspiracy theory.
(51:09):
Mind you, I appreciate everyonetaking the time to hang out with
us on this lovely evening.
Maybe it's whatever time it isfor you.
I thank you for hanging outwith us.
If you're not a subscriber tothe podcast, please do so by
going to your favoritepodcasting platform and search
US Phenomenon.
(51:30):
Go to my website On Air Marioto like and subscribe.
Go to all of my social handlesand follow me, please On Air
Mario.
That's simple Love to interactwith you.
You know, not just once a week.
Hit me up, I'm available.
I'll.
I'll chat with you.
I look forward to seeing you inin one of our next engagements
(51:52):
when we decide to do a show live.
I would love for you guys tocome and hang out with us.
If it's in ocean shores or ifit's over by duval, or maybe
it's, maybe it's somewhere closeby where it's, everyone can
join us.
We'd love it's somewhere closeby where everyone can join us.
We'd love for you to come outand hang out with us.
Send me a text if you're likehey, I got a show idea, mario.
Hey, what do you think of this?
(52:12):
Hey, I had a ghost.
I saw a ghost.
Share it with me.
I'd love to have you on theshow.
That's what it is.
It's your story to share.
That's why we do this everyweek.
We put these podcasts together.
So I I love doing these things.
Just a reminder I don't getpaid to do this.
I do this because I love to doit.
(52:35):
Maybe I'm not great at it, but Igenuinely love being on the air
sharing stories andconspiracies with you, because I
fell in love with that back inthe early 90s and, like I said,
a long time ago, when I firststarted doing this radio show, I
had these two epiphanies One toget into radio and number two
was to do this show.
(52:56):
So I thank you from the bottomof my heart.
You know, you taking the timeto listen to the podcast but to
be a part of it.
You know, to share yourthoughts and ideas and question
things out there.
Hey, mario, I saw this.
Yeah, send it to me.
We'd love to hear from you.
You know, hey, I made this coolinvention.
(53:16):
Can I come on the show to talkabout it?
Yes, you can.
We'd love to hear from you.
Hey, I was able to record these.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Share it with us.
Hey, I have a video of asighting of a Sasquatch.
Hell, yeah, we want to hearfrom you.
Everyone is welcome to thetable.
We're here to have aconversation around the water
(53:38):
cooler.
That's what makes this so funand unique and that's what makes
this so great that we get to beable to do this weekly.
So I appreciate it For myentire team Mark Christopher,
sophia Magana and myself.
Mario Magana, be sure to lookup at the sky, because you never
know what you might see.
(53:58):
Good night.
Welcome to US Phenomenon, where possibilities
are endless.
Put down those same oldheadlines.
It's time to expand your mindand question what if?
From paranormal activity toUFOs, bigfoot sightings and
unsolved mysteries, this is USPhenomenon?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
From the Pacific Northwest in the shadow of the
1962 world's fair, the spaceneedle.
Good evening, good morning,good afternoon.
Wherever you are on god's greenearth, I am your host, mario
magana.
This is us phenomenon.
Tonight we uncover somethingthat has been on my plate for
(00:46):
such a long, long time now, aswe talk about conspiracies and I
know right now the conspiraciesare just all over the place you
got the good conspiracies, yougot the bad, some that are like
extremely outrageous.
I mean, let's be honest,there's a ton of stuff Like for
(01:08):
myself.
If you're on the edge of yourseat and you're a big conspiracy
theorist, this episode'sdefinitely for you.
If you're watching us ononairmariocom, thank you for
watching us.
If you're a part of one of ouraffiliate radio stations KOSW,
kapy or our flagship station KVIthank you for hanging out with
(01:29):
us.
You can always text me anytime,24-7-775-990-5151.
Tonight we're going to talkabout one of the biggest I would
call it the Bible ofconspiracies.
Now hang with me on this one,because this goes back to 1991.
(01:52):
This guy wrote this book.
It's called Behold the PaleHorse.
Now William Cooper has.
We're going to dive into this,we're going to let you know who
William Cooper is.
Kind of go over some of theconspiracies about William
Cooper that he wrote.
(02:12):
He used to host a radio show aswell.
Let's kind of get into some ofall that stuff.
But I know that there's so muchto cover.
But for someone like myself whonow has been hosting this show
for quite some time, I mean Iknow we've tongue-in-cheek
talked about William Cooper butnever have done a deep dive
(02:35):
about William Cooper.
Yes, we've had Mark Jacobson on, who wrote a book about William
Cooper, pale Horse Writer.
There's been tons of hip-hopartists that have talked about
William Cooper in their songs.
Let's get into a little bitabout who William Cooper is in
this.
Next, while you hang out with uson one of our radio stations,
(02:58):
or maybe if you're listening onthe podcast, you can go to any
of your favorite podcastingplatforms and search us
phenomenon.
Coming soon we're going to bedoing us phenomenon live.
So if you're a local businessand you'd love to have us uh be
a part, maybe we'll, uh we coulddo a live show at your local
establishment.
Send me an email mario at uh onair mariocom, or you can also
(03:23):
send it to me, mario atnorthwest phenomenon.
So good luck.
Or you can text me 775-990-5151.
So everyone's like talks aboutthese uh different uh
conspiracies and this one ishuge to me.
So we know uh I I brieflytalked about the book, uh behold
(03:44):
the pale horse, but here's alittle bit about uh william
cooper.
He was a mayor, he wasbasically he was born in 19.
Uh, he was born in 1943.
He served the us uh navy and heclaimed that he had naval, had
worked in naval intelligence.
Cooper was well known for hisbook, uh behold the pale horse,
(04:06):
which was published in 1991, andwe're going to go over some of
those uh details about the bookfrom global conspiracies,
government cover-ups, secretsocieties and the
extraterrestrial involvement.
So hang on to your seats.
If you're driving home, this isdefinitely the show for you.
(04:27):
Some of this we're gonna, someof it may be debunked and we'll
kind of get into that.
But uh, the history for me oflike how this came to be was,
you know, back in like 97, 98,you know back in like 97, 98,.
You know, driving home fromBoeing one night and I came
(04:48):
across the show of all showsyeah, it was the show of all
shows and next thing, you know,I just was hooked.
They were talking about aliens,arts, majestic voice just
carrying you through the eveningand the next thing, you know, I
was already home, but I wassitting in the car just
continuing to listen to thesegment, just captivated by that
(05:12):
, and I hope that we continue todo that here, and that's what
sparked me to continue to be afan of that type of stuff, but
always keep an open mind aboutthings, right To be a forward
thinker, always ask questions,and then today, in today's
society, I think that that stillholds some true strong values
(05:36):
with that, um.
So let's continue getting on toa little bit.
Here's some key, uh, key claimsto behold the pale horse.
Now we know that william cooper, cooper, wrote this book.
He also hosted a radio show.
But let's discuss some of thosekey claims in behold the pale
horse.
What are the most notableconspiracies cooper wrote about?
(05:58):
You know, cooper wrote thisbook from cover.
There's a wide range ofconspiracies in this book.
If you haven't had the chance,it's available.
You can always check it out, uh, online.
It is available, um to read.
You can read the book.
I'm, uh, if you're watching ushere, it is there you go, um.
(06:19):
You know, since I don't have aproducer, I do it all myself.
So, uh, uh, there it is.
If you're watching us, aWilliam Cooper book can be found
on Amazon.
But, um, some of the his, uh,some of this, uh, his, his
claims in the book.
What he wrote about was thisthe existence of a secret world,
(06:40):
uh, you know, a secret society,a secret world government, a
new world order these werethings that were talked about in
the book.
You know.
I could tell you that Iremember claims to him saying
that you know, the government isafter us and essentially why.
He explained what you know theinterstates were built for the
(07:01):
post offices.
If you have a chance to readthis book, you will be blown
away by this.
He also talks about thecover-up of the ufos, the, the,
the extraterrestrial life, theclaim that the hiv aids virus
was man-made disease.
Obviously, we know that we'llcontinue to talk about this, but
this was in the book.
Uh, I'm not.
(07:22):
You know these are things thathe wrote about in his book.
And allegations about theIlluminati, the secret society
and manipulating global events.
You know these are things thatwere talked about in this book.
Now, someone who read this bookin 2000, just before 9-11, oh,
let me tell you, I was shook.
(07:44):
11, oh, let me tell you I wasshook.
You, you read this book and hethere are claims that touch and
go about that william cooper waswriting, uh, in his book about
something that was this eventwas going to happen in the early
2000s.
Now, mind you, this book cameout in 1991.
You know so there was a longtime coming.
(08:10):
So did he predict it?
Was he just throwing darts outthere?
I mean, you have to take yourown stance on the book, but I
will tell you it has made methink after all these years,
(08:31):
even having put that book awayand not really delving into that
book in any recent form, I willsay this it didn't come back to
me until, like, I started tohear things during the pandemic
that reminded me of the book,and we'll get into that a little
bit later in the program, inthe show, when we'll talk about
and we'll discuss those things.
(08:52):
I just, he made you think he wasnot a fan.
I mean, he was on an island byhis own.
He wasn't a huge Art Bell fan.
He was not an Alex Jones fan.
You know, I know Alex Jonesused to listen to him.
He would call into his show.
I believe the show was calledOne Hour in Time or something
(09:15):
like that.
I forget the name of the showthat he had, but he did host a
radio show.
I forget the name of the showthat he had, but he did host a
radio show and I know, I believe, that there are recordings of
Alex Jones calling the show backin the day and someone probably
look at Alex, probably lookingup to him.
(09:36):
You know, and obviously we allknow, that Alex Jones does his
own thing now, but I would saythat he thing now.
But I would say that he williamcooper was someone who was on
an island by himself, lived outin the, you know out by himself.
He even predicted his own death.
(09:57):
So I'm not saying he was he wasable to to predict these things
or have anything of that nature.
The word is escaping me at thismoment, but when we talk about
these types of things, we'retalking about being free
(10:17):
thinkers, not being sheep, beinglion.
That was his statement.
These were things that he wouldtalk about in his show, in the
book to be a free thinker.
So the evidence that you know,analyzing and going over this
(10:38):
data, I mean as someone would,how credible was he with these
allegations, with his criticalanalysis.
Was he just throwing smoke andthrowing stuff in the air to see
if it would stick?
I mean, some of his claims werelack of concrete evidence and
(11:02):
widely regarded as conspiracytheories.
The New World Order whilesecret societies, elite groups,
have existed, there's nocircumstantial evidence of
global conspiracies controllingthe world events.
Or are we in a time where wecan now look at these and maybe
(11:26):
make a different determination?
Was there a UFO cover-up?
While the documents, whilethere's tons of documents what
documents does the governmenthave with the UFOs and the
claims of extraterrestrialinvolvement and remaining, you
know, speculative?
(11:47):
You know the claims of the HIVAIDS scientific community have
thoroughly debunked this ideathat HIV was a man-made disease.
Okay, so we know that when youget into the Illuminati
discussion, the idea of thepowerful and hidden
organization's controllableglobal events more myth than
(12:10):
reality be a free criticalthinker.
That doesn't cost us anything.
I mean, with all theinformation that's out there,
this stuff would have runrampant if this was like a new
release.
(12:31):
The book itself has had me onthe edge for years.
But being able to like putaside and you know my
differences of, okay, what'sreal, what's reality, what's
circumstantial?
What's the evidence?
What's reality, what'scircumstantial?
What's the evidence?
What's true, what's not true?
If you want to send us a text,you can 775-990-5151.
(12:59):
I answer each and every one ofthose texts.
They come straight directly tome.
If you're not a subscriber tothe podcast, please subscribe
and like our podcast.
We're trying to continue to grow.
We're going to be doing somemore.
We're going to be out in thestreet a little bit more, doing
more events in the public.
We want to be in the community,we want to spark engagement, we
(13:22):
want to stimulate the economy.
So we look forward to doingsome of that.
But let's get back into thisWilliam Cooper thing, because
it's so much fun to talk aboutsomething that was for me
reading this book, being a young20-something-year-old.
Then 9-11 hits and I'm like, ohmy gosh.
I mean, where were you during9-11?
(13:45):
Do you remember that day?
Oh, I was terrified, straightterrified.
I know the conspiracies thatare out there about 9-11.
You know we've had tammymichaels on to talk about 9-11
who, uh, does a show on.
She has a home improvement showon 97.7 and 1000.
(14:10):
Back in Seattle.
Tammy was, you know, had graced,had brought to us on US
Phenomenon her stories.
She was at the Millennium Hotelthat day.
Her video has been used inKhalid Sheikh Mohammed's trial.
(14:33):
She's been on the stand there.
She has an incredible storythat when 9-11 comes back we'll
have to have her come back on,but that day was stamped in my
memory forever.
I'm sure for you as well.
Where was the president?
(14:53):
What was really going on in thegovernment?
Was it really run by DickCheney or was the president
really making moves?
It was such an incredible timethe advancements we had with
technology, but still limitedtechnology for the president,
who was airborne in an air, youknow, in air force one, having
(15:14):
to go to these different sitesand bunkers and things of that
nature wild times that we wereliving in then.
And and that day has changedour history forever, forever.
It's just incredible,incredible.
I mean, I remember being soyoung I was doing a Monday night
(15:35):
evening radio show and told theprogram director that I was
going to break format and donewscast.
But what was interesting thatnight was driving into the radio
station and then getting thereand being close to an air flight
path and not hearing anyairplanes.
(15:57):
It was eerie and quiet.
It was wild to me, I wasterrified.
I mean, you know, you read thisbook and being that young and
still you know very much,learning who I was as a
broadcaster or maybe as anindividual as well, learning who
(16:20):
I was and how that reallyaffected me.
I mean, so many people's liveswere changed that day.
You know people lost families.
You know the police andfirefighters, you know that went
to respond to that tragic event, not knowing if they were ever
going to come back.
(16:40):
There are some greatdocumentaries out there and I
believe that I always watch thatone documentary with the two
French documentarydocumentarians who put together
a documentary about afirefighter, a greenhorn or a
newbie or whatever they callthem, and their documentary
(17:00):
eventually turns into thedocumentary of 9-11.
Documentary eventually turnsinto the documentary of 9-11.
What a fantastic, a fantasticdocumentary, uh, just really, of
of the events that happenedthat day.
Um, but as we continue to talkabout william cooper and the
things that william cooper didand I know that, I mean I know
that he really talked down to alot of people in regards to who
(17:22):
he really liked and who hedisliked um, you know from from
the art bell pieces to you know,you know being bothered by, uh,
you know from different peoplecalling in, but he made it known
who he liked and what hethought of these individuals and
what they really were.
But as we continue to talkabout, uh the book itself.
(17:47):
You know, behold the pale horse.
If you haven't read it andyou're like I am a conspiracy
theorist and this would be abook that you should read, I'm
not, I'm not.
You know you can get it onamazon or whatever and do your
thing.
But getting back to some of thethings that he he wrote about
was Cooper wrote that he had asignificant impact, particularly
(18:09):
within the UFO and militiacircles.
I mean, this was influential.
It often cited a key text inthe militia movement and has
influenced other conspiracytheories, including the
involvement that involved the Q,also known as QAnon.
(18:31):
This book's popularity hascontributed to a spread of
misinformation and it has, Ibelieve, an erosion to the
(18:55):
public's trust in governments,in governments' institutions.
And when you talk about that, Imean here's what I'll say.
I wasn't.
We're talking.
Years have gone by.
You know, lived my life started.
The idea of doing a radio show.
(19:17):
Us Phenomenon was coming to bea thing just before the pandemic
.
I was doing somethingcompletely different.
The pandemic hit, you startedto see this movement.
The movement had metastasized.
(19:43):
You know, if you're a QAnon fanor not, the Q came to become
very big during the 2000s, the2020.
And that's when it sparked in myhead when I started to see
headlines of the QAnon.
(20:03):
I was like wait, what the hellis going on?
Who are these guys?
But some of the stuff startedto click.
And when I say that it wasthings that were a part of
something, I was like where isthis information coming from?
(20:24):
And I had to go sit for asecond and really do a deep dive
and really go back and saywhere the hell did?
I remember hearing this from.
This isn't the first time andit took a few minutes, maybe a
few days, let's be honest.
It took me some time, but whenI figured I was like, oh my, it
(20:51):
was like it was coming from thebook Behold the Pale Horse.
Right or wrong, everyone hasthe freedom to express
themselves.
Right.
But it was interesting to seehow much of that they were using
(21:12):
.
You know clips, sheep versuslion, being a free thinker,
being a constitutional, you knowbeing prideful of the
government and just questioningprideful of the government and
are just questioning.
But I still question some ofthe things that were going on
(21:37):
during that time, becauseWilliam Cooper said the
government was after you.
The government was after you.
Do you think that's true now,or do you think that the
government's here to save us, asI'm always reminded that the
(22:02):
government is here to work foryou?
That's how I look at it.
It's like you are, you work forus.
We've elected you, right, we'veelected you.
So in those pieces, I think thatWilliam Cooper was someone that
questioned everything, thegovernment, things that was
(22:23):
going on, democracy versus arepublic.
I mean he made all these thingsknown.
If it wasn't for you know, youknow his latest, you know things
that he would discuss on hisradio broadcast.
William Cooper was someone whodefinitely was on his own, not
(22:55):
someone who was spending timewith groups of people.
He's kind of his own thing.
I mean he would do publicspeaking events and things of
that nature, but he was on hisown.
Even when he died, I meanCooper, he was shot by the
(23:20):
sheriff.
He was known as someone whowould publicly talk about
certain things.
He would promote this book, histheories on his radio broadcast
and his public appearances.
He became increasingly involvedin a militia movement, as known
(23:41):
as for his anti-governmentrelic.
Now, that, to me, states that,like I said earlier, william
cooper was not someone whotrusted the government.
He was like you don't get tohave the keys to the car.
(24:02):
No, that's not happening.
He's like questioningeverything in the book.
I mean everything in this bookstates like why the interstate
highways were built, what hethought could be of use for the
post offices.
And it's crazy because he talksabout you know that you could
(24:26):
possibly have to report to yourlocal post office and then taken
to an internment camp.
This is in the book.
I'm not making this up.
This is in that book thatfreaked me out but that
continues to share or to explainor say this dude was like nah,
(24:47):
man, don't trust your government, you just can't.
You know, he talks about thejfk assassination.
He talks about this stuff.
He thought it was a cover-upwith the cia and things of that
nature.
That's all in the book.
(25:07):
Someone like myself who wouldsay, ah, I was terrified I mean
there was full out pages in thefirst when I bought the book.
The book has been modified, thebook has been changed.
There are some things that arenot in the book.
(25:30):
That to me, him being soparanoid, being so worried about
what was going on with thegovernment, with local
government, you know, havingthis anti-government movement, I
(25:51):
don't know.
I would say that if WilliamCooper was alive today, he would
be asking a lot of questions.
He would be sounding off alarms.
That is my belief.
I believe that he was that typeof individual to say what is
going on, Don't buy what theyare selling.
(26:14):
That's what I get out of thebook.
That's what I would say thatWilliam Cooper would say he
would be talking about thesethings in the book, about why
the government did these things,why they were covered up, what
was going on?
Why did they do this?
Why was the JFK files coveredup?
(26:36):
If that's something that you'reinto as a conspiracy theorist,
fantastic content, right, it'sfantastic.
If you're a UFO enthusiast,it's in there.
He talks about that.
(26:56):
Now, if you talk about a newworld order, he talks about that
too.
Does that scare you?
Because it scared me, not somuch now as a grown adult, but
being young, impressionable,reading this book.
Oh, I was terrified.
I was like, oh my gosh, thepost office could be like you
(27:21):
would have to report to the postoffice and then say you're
going to this encampment.
I was like whoa.
I was blown away, like there'sno way that that could this
possibly be, and how thefamilies are all tied together
the rockefellers, the clintonsand things of that nature all
talked about in this book.
Yes, some of this stuff wasdebunked.
(27:47):
Is william cooper probably oneof those out there that was?
I don't want to say I, I, Idon't know, I don't know, but I
will say this good or bad aboutwilliam cooper?
Think that's what I will say.
(28:07):
He made you think.
And going back to all thesedifferent hosts, or these
different guests that come on myshow and different shows around
the world, and for those whoare consuming these types of
shows and watching it now on aplatform, a platform of a social
media platform and getting 20seconds of it, getting excerpts
(28:31):
that are, you know, clipped downto seconds, full stories.
In 20 seconds, you have thefull well, you have the
narrative of what they aretrying to promote or share.
It's just one of those thingsthat I would say changes things,
because you're now consuming iton so many different levels AI,
(28:57):
misinformation, what's true,what's not true?
I know there's a generation ofindividuals that don't watch TV.
Everything is streamed for themor they're looking via their,
their social media apps.
Hey, I think I'm with it.
Evolution and change is aconstant, but what's what
(29:18):
doesn't change is how we consumethis, but making sure we
continue to be a free thinkerand remind ourselves.
Maybe I should look into that alittle bit further before I
just make that piece ofinformation gospel and say, oh
yeah, that's true, oh yeah,that's right, because it could
(29:39):
not.
It could be, but it could alsonot be true, and I think, in a
day and age that we live in,where social media posts are
like out there, just, we're doomscrolling, right as adults,
kids.
Well, we tell our kids not todo scroll, but we're still doing
it, right, we're doom scrolling, we're looking through all,
(30:00):
we're consuming content onlevels that are unbelievably
grotesque.
This is the new drug thatpeople are getting that euphoric
high.
You don't even need to smokecigarettes anymore.
You got it right here on in thepalm of your hand.
You know it was.
(30:21):
It was interesting.
I was listening to a podcastwhere um, an artist, was talking
about why he doesn't have Appleproducts.
You know, for those who believein Apple, who believe in Apple
but who believe in the Bible andbelieve in the story of Adam
and Eve, where they talk aboutthe bite of the apple, where
(30:44):
Adam took the bite of the apple,if you look at the back of the
apple has a bit a bite out of itand that to him, he felt that
that was not something that hewanted.
He carries an old school phone,and good for him.
But as we continue to gothrough these different you know
, having these powerful phonesin our hands if it's an Android
(31:07):
or whatever you use, if it'sApple or Android, google,
whatever Whatever your platformis you're consuming the news on
a different level.
Now it's instantaneous.
You're getting updates pushedto your notification so you get
these types of updates right,and sometimes you don't want
(31:27):
that right.
You're getting these before youeven make it home to watch the
news or you drive home.
You're not listening to theradio anymore, although I hope
you are.
I hope you're listening to theradio or consuming the podcast.
You know we get our informationin so many different forms.
(31:50):
Now, if it's old schoolwatching it over the TV, you
know most of the youngergeneration are getting.
They're consuming it via socialmedia and that's for us old
school people like, oh no,that's not real, can't be.
There's some good stuff outthere.
But there's some.
Oh no, that's not real Can't be.
(32:11):
There's some good stuff outthere, but there's some bad
stuff too, as we all know.
Same with TV, I mean, there'salways.
They come the good with the bad, right.
But again, to wrap this pieceand point up, is understanding
where you're getting andconsuming this stuff from,
because you can get it fromanywhere.
But if it's misinformation,being able to decipher what is
(32:39):
actually true and what's not,because, look, we live in a day
and age where it's instantaneous, we want it now, we want it
fast, and we wouldn't be donewith it, right, I mean, that's
just how it is.
That being said, you know,going back to you know william
cooper, who was william cooper,how he was his own thing, his
(33:00):
own little entity.
The legacy of william cooperspans decades, from hip-hop, the
hip hip hop community, to anewer generation of people
morphing or using this book asbiblical.
(33:22):
It's unfortunate that WilliamCooper is no longer alive.
He passed away in 2001.
He passed away in 2001.
Sherratt's deputies were tryingto attempt to arrest him in
Edgar, arizona.
The circumstances surroundinghis death remain controversial,
with some claiming it was atargeted assassination due to
(33:43):
his outspoken views.
Now, that could be possible,but so can a lot of other things
too.
Right, we know that williamcooper had some trouble with the
law, um, and they were comingto arrest him for other previous
(34:06):
crimes.
So, um, you're right.
Yes, yes, that piece iscontroversial.
I don't know that he wastargeted for assassination
because he was an outspokenindividual.
I mean, it's possible.
I mean also the CIA could havekilled Kennedy.
But I digress, that's stillinformation we don't know about
just yet.
We don't.
(34:28):
I mean, it's so fluid right now, right now, right, I mean,
we're waiting for that.
I mean on pins and needles forus, for myself, yes, I'm, I'm
excited, I want to know what'sgoing on, right, I?
I mean, I want to know, I wantto, I want to have that peace
where I can be like oh yeah,that's what actually happened to
to the, to the former president.
Well, what I mean?
You know what happened to thepresident?
(34:48):
I want to know what happened toour dude, what happened to our
guy.
Let's continue our conversationwith what has happened.
Let's discuss William Cooper's,let's talk about life after
(35:09):
William Cooper has died.
You know what surrounded hisdeath, what happened in the
years following the publicationof his book?
You know, we know that, behold,the Pale Horse came out in 91
and was promoted through his hisradio show public appearances
and he, like I said, he became ahuge, huge push um with, you
(35:36):
know, anti-militia movements.
Um, it's interesting when wetalk about this.
I don't understand why you knowit talks about.
Let me go back here for asecond.
Inside the book he talks about alot of things, including crime
(35:57):
and why people are in jail.
And when we talk about thosethings, I think that's why the
hip-hop community really took tothe book.
You know, the hip-hop communitywrote about this guy in so many
different lyrics and you know,behold, the Pale Horse was
written in so many differentWu-Tang Clan Jay-Z.
(36:19):
A lot of artists that you maynot be familiar with but used
the book.
They there was something thatthey were able to connect with
in the book.
They felt like they hadsomething here.
They were able to have aconnection with William Cooper,
though William Cooper knewnothing about that type of
(36:42):
lifestyle other than he wrote abook about these different
things where people kind oflevitated to.
Maybe they thought or feltcircumstantial that, yes, I was
affected by going to jail andbeing part of the system and not
being able to get out of that.
I mean, he talks about allthese things in the book about
why people are in prison, goingto jail and being part of the
(37:02):
system and not being able to getout of that.
I mean talks about all thesethings in the book about why
people are in prison and onceyou get in that cycle you just
never come out, and I think thatI believe that that's why the
hip-hop community really took tobehold the pale horse, because
you can't really I don't knowwhat a Caucasian dude in his
(37:24):
mid-40s and 50s can relate to a20-something year old hip-hop
artist.
It didn't match, but it matchesin the book Because he was able
to touch different individualson a very wide spectrum of races
and ethnicities.
Maybe you had a family memberthat was incarcerated, but he
(37:48):
talks about that and that'swhere they probably got hooked
on.
Maybe they are a conspiracy,maybe they don't trust the
government, and that's wherethey latched on.
For me there wasn't anylatching, it was just something
that was there that I read about.
(38:09):
I mean having an understandingand trying to stay somewhat away
from the conspiracy shows backin the 2000s, because there was
a lot going on, a lot ofcommunication, a lot of fluid
movement of speculations andmisinformation being spread out
there.
Was it right?
(38:30):
Was it wrong?
I just know that, for me, I wassomeone who couldn't consume it
, even to this day.
I mean, I try not to consumethat kind of that much
information.
I want to know what's going on,I want to ask questions, I want
to know as we continue, uh, tokind of talk about william
(38:53):
cooper.
Here's my thoughts on a lot ofthings.
Here's a conspiracy that Idon't know, that it boasts high,
I don't know.
I just think to me that thisconspiracy like I'm excited to
read about the JFK files, I'mexcited to learn about you know
(39:16):
what happened to RFK and Seniorand MLK?
I want it all, but not at thecost of defaming these
individuals.
That's not.
You know they're dead, they'reno longer with us.
If we're going to be truthseekers, let's get to the truth
(39:38):
of what happened.
But are we truly ready for that?
Are we ready to learn whatactually happened on 9-11, on
the assassination of MartinLuther King or the assassination
of Robert F Kennedy?
(39:59):
Or the assassination of asitting president, john F
Kennedy, or the assassination ofa sitting president, john F
Kennedy?
Was there two shooters?
Did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone?
Was this a conspiracy?
Was this a setup to say youknow what?
Was the mob involved?
(40:21):
Was it the CIA?
Was it the driver that shot him?
I know there's, you know,conspiracy theories out there
right now that the driver shothim from the subruder film.
That are individuals talkingabout this thing.
I've never been to Daily Plaza.
I know that we've had differentguests that come on to share
(40:44):
their thoughts on it and be ableto say, oh yeah, you could
shoot that, you could do that,you could hit them from the book
depository.
I don't know that.
I, I mean, I'm not one withthat kind of strategic.
You know that's not something Iwould do.
(41:06):
But again, I'm not out heretrained to do that.
So was it a coincidence?
Or did we just find out thatLee Harvey Oswald acted alone?
It was the lone shooter, shothim, killed him.
Shooter shot him, killed him.
(41:29):
But I think the thing thatmakes this conspiracy so rich
with speculation is because leeharvey also died, you know, by
jack ruby's hands.
You know jack ruby showed up,shot him.
So of course that conspiracyjust takes on a whole, morphs
into a whole new thing.
(41:49):
I, you know, I'm ready to know,but don't be surprised if you're
blown away by what actuallyhappened, because I think
there's something bigger goingon.
What actually happened?
Because I think there'ssomething bigger going on.
I'm excited about what's tohappen, what's to come, but
(42:10):
always to ask the questions Isthis right, are we doing the
right thing?
I'm telling you, we do theseshows and you're like I don't
know.
I mean, it's possible,anything's possible.
I mean, think about the peoplethat come on the show to talk
about, you know, being abductedby a gray alien.
(42:32):
It's not my truth, it's his orhers.
You know, maybe you've seensomething.
I don't know.
Maybe you've seen something, Idon't know.
Maybe you saw a ghost in yourhouse.
That's your truth.
That's not mine.
I've never had that.
These are things that spark myinterest in why I got into a lot
(42:58):
of this conspiracy theories.
If there's one thing that Iwill say about going back and
listening to William Cooper onsome of his stuff that you can
find on YouTube, it's.
I mean, he packs a pretty goodpunch.
He definitely calls things outas it is and as he views it.
(43:21):
I would believe that callsthings out as it is and as he
views it.
I would believe that he was amachine when it came to
promoting how he went about it,how he continued to do
engagements, how he became anexpert with his naval
intelligence and using that tosay he was pretty upset after
(43:44):
leaving the military, afterbeing discharged, and he felt
like his government turned onhim.
I mean, I'm sure there are aton of people that are out there
that are would say the samething.
They're like I served mycountry, I've done this, this
for country, and God God's gotyour back, but do you feel like
(44:05):
your government has turned onyou?
And this is what's fueled?
This is what fueled him.
The government turned on him,wasn't there to support him.
He talks about this in the book.
The government turned it.
He felt like the governmentturned their back on him,
(44:26):
rightfully so.
He didn't.
You know, I believe that For me.
I believe that our militaryIndividuals Thank you for
serving, but sometimes I feellike they get the short end of
the stick Out here doing thingsfor our you know, for our
country, and hopefully thecountry will continue to evolve
(44:50):
and change to be able to giveour military men and women who
are serving the ability to do atransition program, just like
they go into boot camp.
Maybe it's a boot camp, a bootcamp to transition, to get out
of the military and we're nottalking about like the other
type, like we're talking aboutgoing back to civilian life to
(45:11):
do some type of boot camp likethat.
Give them the social skills,make sure they go through
counseling, things of thatnature, because the government
does their job to build theseinto warriors, killers,
intelligence, to be able totrain them.
But they also need training tocome back out to be able to do
(45:33):
normal life If it's being apolice officer or if it's
serving in some other capacity,and that's what happened.
It talks about that in the bookin some other capacity and
that's what happened.
It talks about that in the book.
William Cooper talks about, inBehold the Pale Horse, what
actually kind of transpired andwhy he changed.
What made him that way.
Why did he turn his back on thegovernment?
(45:54):
But at that point he was likeI'm going to share as much
information as I possibly can,but writing about the
Rockefellers, these big familiesand these secret societies and
why the government built theseinfrastructures and put them in
place.
He talks about all this in thebook.
(46:15):
It's his truth.
That is his story.
Again, I'm not here to say thatWilliam Cooper was right or
wrong.
I'm just here to share what Ilearned from the book, what I
believe some individuals havetaken in the past, recent past,
and amplified it and brought itback to life Good, bad or
(46:40):
indifferent.
It is one of those things thatif someone wrote a book that was
all pro-government things ofthat nature, it would be a
different outlook on that, rightI mean.
So it really boils back towilliam cooper.
Had it out for his government,he was going to do everything he
(47:02):
possibly could to out thegovernment, share information
that may be on a grandiose scaleTo share it on his radio show,
in the book, in when he did hisspeaking engagements.
And it was his duty, that'swhat he wanted to do.
(47:25):
He wanted to share these thingsso that other individuals knew
what was up.
We know that he lived thiscomplex life.
Some of the stuff that he wroteabout it's not verified, some
of it is misinformation.
But we have to understand as asociety that we need to be able
(47:49):
to do our own homework, tocontinue to be free thinkers for
ourselves, for our familymembers, because, remember, at
the end of the day, we are ourown ceos of our own entity, of
our families.
You know being a huge.
You know just being American,just proud, right?
(48:09):
I mean we want to continue that, but be free thinkers at that
as well.
And remember to be lying andnot cheap.
One of his quotes that healways would say you know, don't
be a sheep, be a lion.
You know you started seeingthose hats pop back up Again.
(48:30):
Good for them.
You know, whoever theentrepreneur in somebody to be
able to bring those types ofthings back Again.
We know that this book has beencontroversial over the decades.
I would say that I take it witha grain of salt now.
But what would William Coopersay about what's going on today?
(48:53):
I would believe that he wouldsay, as we know it to be true,
due to him being MrAnti-Government, I would say
that he would be questioning alot of things right now.
Maybe they're great, maybethey're not great, but I will
(49:14):
tell you this he would bequestioning everything that was
going on, everything fromprobably in all the
administrations, not just thisrecent one or the past one all
the administrations.
He would be skeptical, with alot of skepticism.
(49:34):
He would be out there drummingand saying this can't be right.
Make sure you're thinking, aswe know, that William Cooper was
a free thinker, someone whocontinued to be that, someone
(49:57):
who would cultivate thisinformation to put in one book,
this book.
Behold the Pale Horse.
Now, like I said, williamCooper, controversial from start
to finish, with all theunverified information he
(50:24):
undoubtedly made you think, withall the unverified information
he undoubtedly made you think.
But remember this WilliamCooper's legacy is so complex.
While the book has undoubtedlyinfluenced conspiracy culture,
it's also important to recognizethe dangers of promoting
(50:48):
unverified claims andmisinformation.
Cooper's life and work servesas a reminder that we need to be
critical thinking andskepticism in evaluating every
conspiracy theory.
(51:09):
Mind you, I appreciate everyonetaking the time to hang out with
us on this lovely evening.
Maybe it's whatever time it isfor you.
I thank you for hanging outwith us.
If you're not a subscriber tothe podcast, please do so by
going to your favoritepodcasting platform and search
US Phenomenon.
(51:30):
Go to my website On Air Marioto like and subscribe.
Go to all of my social handlesand follow me, please On Air
Mario.
That's simple Love to interactwith you.
You know, not just once a week.
Hit me up, I'm available.
I'll.
I'll chat with you.
I look forward to seeing you inin one of our next engagements
(51:52):
when we decide to do a show live.
I would love for you guys tocome and hang out with us.
If it's in ocean shores or ifit's over by duval, or maybe
it's, maybe it's somewhere closeby where it's, everyone can
join us.
We'd love it's somewhere closeby where everyone can join us.
We'd love for you to come outand hang out with us.
Send me a text if you're likehey, I got a show idea, mario.
Hey, what do you think of this?
(52:12):
Hey, I had a ghost.
I saw a ghost.
Share it with me.
I'd love to have you on theshow.
That's what it is.
It's your story to share.
That's why we do this everyweek.
We put these podcasts together.
So I I love doing these things.
Just a reminder I don't getpaid to do this.
I do this because I love to doit.
(52:35):
Maybe I'm not great at it, but Igenuinely love being on the air
sharing stories andconspiracies with you, because I
fell in love with that back inthe early 90s and, like I said,
a long time ago, when I firststarted doing this radio show, I
had these two epiphanies One toget into radio and number two
was to do this show.
(52:56):
So I thank you from the bottomof my heart.
You know, you taking the timeto listen to the podcast but to
be a part of it.
You know, to share yourthoughts and ideas and question
things out there.
Hey, mario, I saw this.
Yeah, send it to me.
We'd love to hear from you.
You know, hey, I made this coolinvention.
(53:16):
Can I come on the show to talkabout it?
Yes, you can.
We'd love to hear from you.
Hey, I was able to record these.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Share it with us.
Hey, I have a video of asighting of a Sasquatch.
Hell, yeah, we want to hearfrom you.
Everyone is welcome to thetable.
We're here to have aconversation around the water
(53:38):
cooler.
That's what makes this so funand unique and that's what makes
this so great that we get to beable to do this weekly.
So I appreciate it For myentire team Mark Christopher,
sophia Magana and myself.
Mario Magana, be sure to lookup at the sky, because you never
know what you might see.
(53:58):
Good night.
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