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November 26, 2024 82 mins

What happens when political landscapes shift, unexpected alliances form, and conspiracy theories gain traction? We explore these provocative questions in our latest episode of US Phenomenon. With the guidance of Mark Jacobson, acclaimed author of "Pale Horse Rider," we dive into the eerie and intriguing world of Project 2025 and its potential to reshape the US federal government. We peel back the layers of the Democratic Party's recent struggles, examining the mysterious absence of 20 million votes following President Trump's re-election. Could this be a sign of deeper systemic changes on the horizon?

Seattle's urban political environment offers a surprising backdrop to this narrative, with unexpected support for figures traditionally outside the mainstream. We take a hard look at how social media is redefining political narratives and discuss the rise of "alternative facts" in shaping public perception. Mark Jacobson brings his deep knowledge of conspiracy theories to the table, linking today's digital age myths with historical figures like William Cooper and Alex Jones. As we tackle the tension between individualism and potential authoritarianism, we ponder what these shifts mean for freedom and governance in America.

In a reflection on legacy, we revisit Bill Cooper's predictions and influence, particularly how his ideas resonate with today's political climate. From discussions on the John Birch Society to the Heritage Foundation's controversial Project 2025, we consider how these elements intertwine with Cooper's enduring influence. As we move towards the future, the emphasis is on fostering a growth mindset, encouraging listeners to prioritize self-improvement and community strength. Tune in for a thought-provoking journey through America's complex and ever-evolving political landscape.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to US Phenomenon, where possibilities
are endless.
Put down those same oldheadlines.
It's time to expand your mindand question what if?
From paranormal activity toUFOs, bigfoot sightings and
unsolved mysteries, this is USPhenomenon?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
From the Pacific Northwest in the shadow of the
1962 World's Fair, the SpaceNeedle.
This is US Phenomenon and I amyour host, mario Magano, where
we explore the extraordinary andthe unexplained.
Tonight we're going to gosomeplace that has been Googled
in the last couple of weeks,significantly getting a large

(00:45):
google share of uh in trendinguh.
Tonight we're going to talk allthings project 2025.
Now, if you want, you ask whatthe hell is project 2025?
Well, we're going to get intothat and what it could look like
for you and look like for allof us.
I mean, what?
Who am I kidding?
This is not just just about you.
This is about all of us and howthat could play out for us.

(01:08):
Um, so our guest this eveningneeds no introduction.
He's an?
Uh, an east coast uh journalist, an author who wrote a book
about william cooper titled palehorse rider.
The hip-hop community is inlove with this folk tale of an

(01:29):
individual.
Now, since he's no longer withus, um, the author of pale horse
rider, uh, mark jacobson.
You can find him at pale horserider book.
It is my pleasure to welcomeback to us phenomenon mark
jacobson.
Welcome back to the show manhey, mario, what's up?
you know, I mean, let's see here, I don't look too bad here, do

(01:51):
I know?
I mean, well, let's see okay soI'm an old guy and, like I just
got up, so you know, I mean,look, it's, it's nighttime and
I'm sorry to have to wake you aton the east coast time.
You know, for those who arelistening to us on the on the
east, for who may be listeningto us on the east coast, hey,
look, you're great for radiobecause no one can see your face

(02:12):
.
But if you'd like to watch thepodcast, no, I absolutely don't.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
You can go and watch it, listen to it, you can watch
it.
You can watch us, uh, either uhgo to youtube and see the sad
news anytime I walk man.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
So, uh, in today's society, the world looks like we
have uh re-elected a person whowon in 2026, uh, 2016.
Excuse me, um, but this time itlooks like he won hands down.
I mean, not like the HillaryClinton 2016 type election, but

(02:53):
it looks like it was like to behonest with you, kind of an ass
whooping.
I mean, it looks like we'remissing some.
I don't know, I don't want toget into the we're missing votes
type situation, but it lookslike there was enormous amount
of individuals that may have notgone out to the polls and voted
.
So, uh, here we are in theworld today where, um,

(03:15):
president-elect trump is movingforward with his uh
administration, with atransition of power, a peaceful
transition of power.
Look, this is going to beinteresting for those who have
been Googling Project 2025, alsobeen trending, as well as a

(03:37):
Google search how the hell toget the hell out of the country?

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, I know, I saw that I mean.
The people always say that.
You know, I mean they never go,but they always say that.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I mean look, I mean regardless on what side of the
fence you might be on.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, like I'm going to, I'm going to sell everything
I own and move to a place Idon't know anybody Right, and
try to.
You know, and most of thepeople that are saying that are
over 40.
Anyhow, I mean, it's just it'slike sour grapes on one, respect
and fear in the other.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
You know I I mean when we talk about this and fear
, on, on, on levels that mightbe a little bit more.
Well, you know, since I'm inthe business of speculation, I
mean sometimes it is.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
You're in the business of rabble rousing.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did we get sold some snake oilby somebody who may you know,
like I don't know?
Do we say we're getting onething and may get the other?
I mean, we know what we'regetting.

(04:47):
We know that we're going to getfour years of.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
I don't think you know what you're getting.
I think it could go.
It's really kind of like up inthe air at this point.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
For those who are.
I mean, I don't know.
People are speculating onwhat's going to happen.
No, people are speculating onwhat's going to happen and
clearly, project 2025 is acomprehensive restructuring,
possibly of the United Statesfederal government.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Well, let's get into that Before we do get into the
2025 thing.
Before we do get into the 2025thing.
Yes, those 20 million votesthat didn't show up this time
yeah, I mean I am this is, youknow, as somebody who didn't
really quite buy into theprevious edition of this idea

(05:40):
that, like you know, thecounting was all wrong I don't
buy this either.
I mean, people didn't show upbecause of those 20 million
votes, like at least 15 millionwas supposed to go into the
Democratic candidate, into thatDemocratic column, right?
Sure, I mean, that's just asimple math.
So I think, when you get downto it is the Democrats.

(06:05):
They deserve to lose, theydeserve to lose.
It doesn't mean that Trumpdeserves to win, but they
deserve to lose and they lost.
Because if you had a businessand you were managing it the way
the Democratic Party runs theirparty, you'd be out of business
a long time ago and theydeserve to be out of business.
I mean business and you'remanaging it the way the
democratic party runs their runstheir party, you'd be out of

(06:26):
business a long time ago andthey deserve to be out of
business.
I mean.
I mean, if the thing, if thegoal is to win the election.
Republicans are really muchbetter at winning elections.
I'm governing, which issupposed to be the long-term
goal of all this.
Well, that's a different storyaltogether, but when it comes
down to winning elections, thedemocrats are hopeless.

(06:47):
You know the fact that they winevery once in a while is just
sort of like you know and thinkabout this.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
I mean not to get into too many of the different,
well, I mean, that is my, myrole, but think about it.
So you get an election.
You have an election in 2026,you know, 2016.
Uh, trump wins.
Now, was that the anti-obamavote?
People are like I'm just sickof the whole, like the damn you

(07:17):
know it's like.
Well, I mean, and not only that, but you send a retread up
there to be like the the next.
I mean, I'm not hillary clinton.
Well, this is all.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
This is all.
You know.
I mean everybody, I know in the, in the kind of.
I live in new york city.
You know, um, people arefreaked out that donald trump
got 29 of the vote.
Now 29 of the vote is of losershare, big time loser share, but
last time he got 16, he got 29in the bronx.

(07:49):
Now he got eight percent in thebronx.
Previously you know that'seight percent of the vote.
I could get eight percent ofthe vote.
You know, like um, so now wegot 29 of the vote.
So what is that about?
Does that mean they really wantDonald Trump to be the
president?
I don't know.

(08:10):
I mean, it's a kind of.
You know, if Oklahoma votes forDonald Trump, well, yeah, okay,
oklahoma votes for Donald Trump, they always would vote for
Donald Trump.
But when you have people in yourhometown, you know which is the
most liberal city in thecountry.
You know I'm not talking aboutSan Francisco.
These people are just Martians.

(08:30):
I mean, this is a real place,new York City.
So, like you know, we've beenand actually you know there's a
mythic thing about New Yorkwhere, like you know, they
always vote Democratic and it'shopeless, blah, blah, blah, blah
, blah.
But if you look at the mayorsof New York City, giuliani won
in 1993, he won in 1997,bloomberg won in 2001,.

(08:57):
He won in 2005,.
He won in 2009.
Now that's five consecutiveRepublican mayors in the most
liberal town in the country.
Now that doesn't mean thatthese people are reflexively
going out and pulling the leverfor the people that their

(09:17):
grandparents voted for.
I mean people here.
They know how to think.
You know they're not like Idon't want to say anything
that's going to be controversial, but I mean you know people
actually think about.
Come on everything'scontroversial here, but yeah, I
mean, you know I mean, the thingis like you know I'm, that's
the thing that's freaking mostpeople I know out is new york
city still a liberal city.
That's a question, right?

(09:38):
So, um, that's a real question,sure, so so?

Speaker 2 (09:43):
not only just New York, but Seattle.
I mean to be honest with you,we were grabbing breakfast, my
daughter and I, yesterday Inproper Seattle.
I am seeing MAGA hats, look, doyou?
I don't care, but to me veryshocking to be in Seattle.

(10:03):
I'm like whoa, don't makeAmerica in Seattle.
I'm like whoa, that's a don'tworry, you know, make America
great again.
I'm like, okay, cool.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
You wouldn't see that here, man, but I mean people go
in a voting booth and vote forhim, you know.
So, when you're at home byyourself, if you're somebody,
even if this is the town withAOC in it.
Right, she managed to win.
She got 80% of the vote youknow of her.
She ran and she got exactly theamount of money, the amount of

(10:33):
votes that she usually gets.
So, you know, it isn't just thatpeople are becoming more
conservative, it's just thatthere's a sea change in what
people want are becoming moreconservative.
It's just that there's a seachange in what people want, and
people want what people want inan urban environment as opposed
to a suburban or ruralenvironment, if there is any
rural parts left of the UnitedStates that are really rural.

(10:56):
You know, right, you know,these are something that you
wake up to and to think about,because if the goal is to keep
it at 50% on both sides, so ofpeople constantly screaming at
each other, um, this is, this isa little chink in that little
uh equation, which is requiressome thought and uh, as a kind

(11:20):
of like junior pundit not quiteon your level, mario but uh, you
know, uh, these are the kind ofthings that you have to think
about.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
When you think about it too, the wave of the wall,
the blue wall, that did notexist this time in the election
for Kamala Harris, I mean, Trumptook that away.
It's just interesting how muchhe took.
But look, in that whole case,when you start to think about

(11:47):
the election, people privatelyvoting and how they want to vote
, I'm going to be honest withyou If, if Democrats think that
they're going to win things,they better start looking at
themselves and look atinnovation and how they're going
to continue to evolve.
Because I will tell you, onTikTok, twitter, all these
social media platforms look theyare.
The Republican party waspounding the pavement.

(12:09):
Good on them, because they wereabove the rest.
Pounding pavement on socialmedia did them well.
Whoever they were using, theywere getting a message out.
Some of the message may havebeen, you know, hearsay, may not
been true, may have not beenfalse, we don't know, but it was
out there.
I mean it's, you know, it's allspeculated out there.

(12:31):
That's, that's the mostimportant right, right.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
So whether or not it's true or false is no longer
a primary concern, but I meanthe fact that it's out there and
um the idea.
Like you know carrie, what'sher name?
The woman that was, um, what'sthe one that first said
alternative facts, that blondehaired woman that Trump was
Trump's guy person in thebeginning.
Yeah, but the when shementioned that thing about there

(12:57):
were facts and there werealternative facts, and the idea
that you could choose betweenthe two of them.
I mean that's a triumphant, Imean there's no doubt that
that's the case.
So you know, then, facts, theidea of facts.
You know that that was a, thatwas a kind of uh, that was owned
by the establishment.
We're going to establish thefacts.
Um, so people rebelled againstthat because they didn't

(13:20):
necessarily Was that KellyanneConway?
Yeah, yeah.
So, like you know, I'm notsaying this is bad or good.
Sure, I don't really have a Atthis point, I don't really have
a horse in the race.
You know, in a lot of ways I'mjust looking at what's happening
and the trending is towardspersonal narrative and it's

(13:46):
obvious that Donald Trump is aguy with a lot of personal
narrative, as opposed to theDemocrats who are pushing this
kind of like ancient I mean whathappened in the last election,
the one from last month, or thismonth, I guess is that that's

(14:12):
the last gasp, the final littlekind of breath of the New Deal.
The Democrats have been ridingon this ever since 1932, ever
since Franklin Delano Roosevelt,they have been depending on the
idea of this kind ofentitlement for every citizen
that came up during theDepression.
Now and Joe Biden was the lastone of these guys that was still

(14:35):
in the Senate I'm talking aboutHubert Humphrey, Robert, not
Robert Kennedy, Jack Kennedy,you know, Lyndon Johnson all
those people were children ofthe New Deal, and now there are
no women left.
So unless they come up withsome new narrative, they're

(14:55):
going to keep on losing.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Our guest tonight, Mark Jacobson, the author of
Pale Horse Rider, the book aboutwilliam cooper.
Um I I gotta wonder sometimesas I sit here I also wrote some
other books yeah, yeah, yeah,but this is this one's going to
be the one that's going to betelling, because you definitely

(15:18):
have a bunch of other books.
We'll definitely link them inthe podcast, but that's okay.
That's okay, I mean you knowwell, I mean, this is the one
that one is good with me this,this one, this is the one that I
think takes the cake, becausewhen you start to think about,
like the alex joneses of theworld right and, and like his
whole, you know his whole shtick, how the q anon became to be

(15:38):
the q, and it's interestingbecause the evolution I was like
during that pandemic time yousaw this uprise in conspiracies
that were like almost a littletoo.
Now, if you haven't read thebook, behold the Pale Horse, one
would be like if you have,you're like you turn your head a

(15:59):
little bit and you're like I'veheard this before and then for
me it was like oh yeah, it's inthe book.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Well, bill Cooper Bill Cooper was, you know.
He was a person who was in theright place at the right time,
with the right mentality to beable to kind of see this People
talk about him as a prophet.
He's a this, he's a that, and alot of people real big Cooper,
bill Cooper fans hate this bookbecause I actually did it as a
journalist.
I shinned, I actually found outwhat really happened.

(16:32):
So, as opposed to buying thenarrative on all these different
things but the narrative is themain here's a guy who goes to
Vietnam.
He's a military guy, gung-hogoes to Vietnam and he goes
there to fight for theConstitution and the American
way and all that kind of stuff.

(16:53):
And he gets there and you see,these people are fighting for
their homes, we're the invadershere.
Well, how did we get in thissituation?
And it just dominates his lifeafter that and he wants to look
behind the curtain to see how hewho put him in this spot, right
, so, and it goes on and on andon through all this different

(17:15):
stuff and he, he becomes a Imean, bill cooper's way.
Bill cooper could be exactly theopposite of a guy like Joe
Rogan or Alice Jones, who, aliceJones went to school on Bill
Cooper.
I mean, he would stay up atnight listening to Bill Cooper's
broadcasts and his parentswould be screaming at him to

(17:37):
turn that stuff off, you know.
But he'd sit there with hislittle transistor radio, you
know, like if you can rememberthat such things existed.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Hour of the.
Whatever his radio show.
Hour of the time.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Hour of the time I hate all things.
Art, bell and alex jones, plus,plus, there's all the rappers
who, I mean, there's twoeditions of bill cooper, there's
the book behold a pale horse,and there's the radio show hour
of the time.
Now, all the all the blackpeople that were bill cooper.
There's the book, behold thepale horse.
And there's the radio show hourof the time.
Now, all the all the blackpeople that were bill cooper
fans read the book and theywould became every single rapper

(18:15):
from the golden age of rap, Iwould say from about 1988 to
1994.
I mean you could debate that ifyou want, but I would say that
that was the best time for rapmusic.
All those people were peoplethat read this Bill Cooper's
book, behold the Pale Horse.
And I remember a famousinterview I did with Prodigy,

(18:37):
who was from Mobb Deep, and Isaid is it true that you read
Behold the Pale Horse four times?
And he said no, man, I read itsix times.
I said, really, he said youread behold a pale horse four
times.
He said no, man, I read it sixtimes.
He said well, before you get upthere and start to talk to the
people, you've got to be rightand correct, right.
So, um, you know this was thetruth.
Uh, as far as it was concerned,and also cooper's book, behold a

(18:59):
pale horse was the single mostread book in the New York State
prison system and across theentire country as well, and it
still is, even though the bookcame out in 1991.
People are still reading thisbook, which has not been changed
, until somebody else got a holdof it and shopped out a bunch
of the chapters, which is awhole other topic.

(19:21):
But you know, and people alwayscome over to me and say what do
you think Bill Cooper wouldthink of Donald Trump?
Sure, it's a difficult question, because I think that Bill
Cooper would not care forsomebody who, because he was a

(19:42):
big rule of law guy.
Yeah, you know, rule of law guy, that's rule of law guy, that's
what he was.
So you know I don't know.
I don't know of any presidentthat has such little regard for
the rule of law I'm not sayinganything bad about it or good
about it.
I mean, some of these laws arebad, you know.
So, um, uh, you know my, myunderstanding.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
My understanding of uh, bill Bill Cooper was that,
you know, don't be a sheep, be alion, understand what's going
on, pay attention to what isgoing on.
The government he was adamantthat the government wanted to do
some certain things.
The secret society was outthere, as he would say to you

(20:21):
know, possibly get you.
As he would say to you know,possibly get you when we talk
about this whole, you know, thishuge manifesto which is called
Project 2025,.
Our guest this evening, theauthor of Pale Horse Rider you
can find him on Pale Horse atPale Horse Rider book on
Instagram, and we know thatwhat's his name is celebrated

(20:46):
his heavenly birthday.
I think you uh recently talkedabout uh.
Cooper spent uh celebrating hisbirthday, or I think it was
recently, no, this?

Speaker 3 (20:54):
is death of two days two major two major days in the
bill cooper canon.
There's his birthday, which is,uh, may 4th, and then 1943, and
then there's his death day,which is November 5th 2001.
Gotcha, now, the thing aboutBill Cooper's death day, which
is really the thing that cementshis legacy, is that he said

(21:18):
they're about to come and get me.
You know this is a guy who moreor less predicted some of 9-11.
I mean most people, most peoplein the bill cooper cult believe
that he really predicted 9-11,which is not 100 true, but he
did say, several months beforeactually june 2001, that

(21:41):
something big is going to happenin this country, that they're
going to blame on osama binladen, which that really
happened right.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
I mean, uh, I believe that was may have been in his
radio show, or radio show, yeah,his radio show.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
So like um, you know.
So he's got that kind of thing.
So, but his great predictionwas they're going to come and
kill I'm going to come up here.
He lives on top of a mountainin uh eager, arizona, which is a
kind of little mountain skiresort town, and so, um, and he
said to uh, he said on the radioseveral times that one night

(22:17):
they're going to come up hereand shoot me dead and I'm going
to be dead on my front doorstep.
And that's exactly whathappened.
And he even called the time.
He said at midnight and hisdeath time is 12.05.
Wow, you know I mean somethings.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
The premonition that this man had.
You can't argue with that kindof stuff.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
It's just true.
You can read the police report.
It's right there in black andwhite.
You know, if you believe such athing, if you're still willing
to believe black and whitepolice reports, maybe you've
progressed to the point whereyou think that's all or
regressed Right.
In any event, let me talk aboutProject 2025, which I think is

(23:04):
a real charade.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
I mean, people are freaked out about it.
If you're liberal, you'refreaking out right now.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Well, let's just look at what really it is first.
Okay, so Project 2025 wasproduced by the Heritage
Foundation.
The Heritage Foundation, thatis a complete.
They've been putting out thesekind of things since 1981, you
know for what?
The next president who believesa guidebook, for what the next

(23:36):
president who might actually gofor any of this stuff should do
For either party.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Well, they're a conservative thing For sure
Democrats are not going to pickit up, so you?

Speaker 3 (23:49):
know it's for Republican Party things.
So the Heritage Foundation Igot all this stuff for you here.
Heritage Foundation goes backto the 1950s.
People had come out of the Johnburr society and stuff like
that.
Um and um and then, uh, let'ssee, let's just see here, hang

(24:17):
on a second.
I have some actual notes that,in my journalistic way, I have
you wrote you wrote something Ihave actually have done some
research.
I mean, bill Cooper would tellyou to do your own research.
Now, that is one of the thingsabout Bill Cooper, which,
unfortunately, has been abusedby his followers, because they

(24:39):
believe do your own researchmeans look on the Internet until
you find the stuff that youalready agree with, and then you
say that that's, you did yourown research.
Look on the internet until youfind the stuff that you already
agree with, and then you saythat that's.
You did your gospel.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
I mean, that's his most famous phrase and you hear
it all the time.
Do your own research.
And also he's the inventor ofthe phrase sheeple.
I mean, you know, he was aperson.
He's the person who, uh,popularized that phrase.
So popularize that phrase.
So he's the guy.
So, in any event, what theyeventually did, what the

(25:10):
Heritage Foundation is, is akind of think tank that came up
out of in the 1960s and 70s,partially as a result of the
failure of the extremism of theJohn Birch Society thing, if
people know who that is.
And they more or less were thearchitects of the neocon, the

(25:35):
nasty neocon thing that all theTrumpers hate.
They were the ones thatinvented the Reagan doctrine,
which was all about foreignpolicy and how to control and
not exactly the opposite ofAmerican first, exactly the
opposite.
So they're not Trumpers.
And when Trump says that henever heard of it and he's not

(26:02):
going to follow it and all thatkind of stuff like that, you
know he's.
You know he's half doing thatDonald Trump thing of like, you
know forgetting, or like notincluding the part that he knows
is true or false.
But on the other hand, he'she's telling the truth because
these people are basically hisenemies in the beginning.
These people are basically hisenemies in the beginning.

(26:26):
What Trump did.
His undying achievement thatnobody can take away from him is
he overthrew the Illuminati, ifyou want to call it that, cabal
, as seen by the Bushadministrations, the Bush people
, those kind of aristocratic.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Secret society.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah, all that stuff, the skull and bone stuff, all
that stuff that people stillthink is functional because they
don't bother to do their ownresearch, so, like you know.
But Trump did in 2016 when helooked at jeb bush and said, oh,
you've got pretty low energy,aren't you man?
I mean, that was it.

(27:10):
They were finished at thatpoint.
Right, and I'm going to givedonald trump credit for that
forever and ever.
You know he is the winner inthat situation and those people
deserve to go, man.
You, you know, they really did.
I mean George Bush Jr, georgeBush Sr the first.
When he walks into asupermarket just for election

(27:32):
thing, you know and he sees thepoor cashier is making $2 an
hour whatever it was at theminimum wage at that time
scanning the products and he's'sgoing what's that?
Because he never had ever goneto a supermarket by himself.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
So out of touch, I mean, like those are not really
the kind of people you want tovote for.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Right, right, I mean, they're not like you, but but.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
But they did.
They did and, and, and somevery large numbers, obviously,
and not as large as the COVIDelection, but they did.
They voted for.
Someone who may be out of touchin regards to when was the last
time.
Well, that's not true, becauseyou saw him put French fries in
a thing and did the whole opsand make that.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, but the thing is, Trump is just.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
It's a great.
He's a new kind of character.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
He's just he's a new kind of character.
He's just he's a modern-dayshowman.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
He's a modern-day elect.
He's a showman.
Like him, or love him, or hatehim, however you want to.
Yeah, I mean he.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Let's not get thrown off.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Let's go to the history of 2025 first, then we
can go back to sure.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
for sure, thanks, yeah so, in other words, um so
they did the reagan doctrine.
They were behind the neocons.
They were the ones that camethat were pushing the bush
administration conservative, thereagan conservative christian
in the 80s.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
This was this was a part of that.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
That well, the, the Christian stuff comes later,
because these people are likethey've had money for years and
years.
They're old money people, okay.
So they're the ones that werepushing for the Iraq invasion,
the Afghanistan array, all thesethings that the Trump people
are against.
These people were for, you know, and when Trump first came

(29:25):
around in 2016, the head of theHeritage Foundation said that he
was a clown and it was likeridiculous that he would even be
running.
So, you know, donald Trump hasgot an ear for people that
insult him, so he remembers thatkind of stuff.
So, as the Heritage Foundationis now with all, they were the

(29:46):
biggest single think tank andthe most funded think tank in
Washington.
So they're in a situation like,say, 2017, when Trump's in that
they're about to go out ofbusiness, right, you know,
they're in trouble, right.
So they come up with the youknow.
So they've been putting outthese reports since 1981 about

(30:10):
what the president should do tomake a more conservative society
.
So then they get new leadership.
This guy Roberts I think I canremember his name, um, and he's
more hip to these kind of things.
So he comes up with this thing,which is, you know, much more
trump oriented, and then theyleak it out and it becomes this

(30:32):
huge democratic party talkingpoint, because there's stuff in
there that is completelyobjectionable to most people,
like the anti-abortion stuff,the kind of like over-the-top
attack on wokeism, which is justa whole other issue, you know,
and stuff like all thatChristian nation stuff and all

(30:53):
that stuff that Trump treads onbecause he wants votes, because
he wants votes, but he doesn'tbelieve in any of that.
I don't think.
You know that people mightthink that he has, because he
gets shot and he manages to live, that God's on his side.
But I would contend thatthere's a whole other section of
supernatural powers around herethat protect people and get
them what they want, and it'scalled you can go read Faust and

(31:15):
check it out, you know.
So.
You know it doesn't mean justbecause he lives and people
shoot at him and he seems to winall the time, that he is
necessarily favored by JesusChrist.
You know he could be favored bythat guy with the horns and the
funny tail, you know so whichyou know?

(31:36):
Prove it to me.
That's not true, okay, so, andthen?
So you got this kind of thing.
So I think they put out thisthing and the democrats are you
saying so?

Speaker 2 (31:48):
it was more of a modified version of of the
project 2025, taking out andkind of twisting it to be more
like a donald trump.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Uh, doctor trying to get in the game.
You know, yeah, they're trying.
They're trying to catch up,right, this heritage foundation
thing.
They're trying to catch up.
I'm completely positive.
This is true.
I mean prove.
I mean you know I could bewrong, but I mean, looking at,
it seems to me like here's awhole power center of these
never trumper types who realizethat they are back in the wrong

(32:19):
horse, that donald trump isgoing to be the winner and they
want a piece of the pie sure so.
So the the thing comes out.
I don't mean to step on yourwhole premise here.
The thing comes out.
The democrats are the ones thatpublicize it, because it's got
stuff in there that like not notonly is it this kind of

(32:40):
Christian nationalist stuff thatmost people you know, who
believe in the separation ofchurch and state are not going
to be that crazy about, which Ithink is probably I don't know,
maybe I'm just completely wrongabout that, but I think a lot of
people find that objectionable,you know.
So.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
There should be, there should be, there should be
.
You know separation of churchand state, but go ahead.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Well, so there's stuff in this thing that Trump
would never in a million yearsgo for Like they want to.
They want to outlaw pornography.
It's in the project 2025 outlawpornography.
Do you realize what that woulddo?
Do you realize?

Speaker 2 (33:21):
how much money we're going to lose.
There are a bunch of 25,54-year-olds listening to the
radio right now and saying what?

Speaker 3 (33:28):
I mean, do you really think that a country that's
willing to put gamblingadvertisements on every single
sporting event is going tooutlaw something which is an
addictive practice likepornography?
The whole country runs onaddiction.
You know that is Mark Jacobson.

(33:49):
The whole country runs onaddiction.
I'll stand by that statement.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
We need to make T-shirts for that.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
This is every single thing that happens.
You know, in the Trump world Imean, I'm not a big fan of
William Burroughs, but you knowhe predicted everything is
permitted.
You know everything ispermitted, so, like now,
everything which was bad is nowgood.
You should gamble on everything.
You should spend all your timeand effort thinking about

(34:18):
whether all the parlays you'regoing to make on these different
college football teams that youdon't even care about.
You know so like you don't evenknow and never heard of them
until yesterday.
But now you want to make a beton it and that's all you care
about.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Southeast Oklahoma University versus, you know, USC
.
Whatever the case may be, yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Well, I mean, there's a whole.
I mean I could write a big,gigantic essay about this and
maybe I will, but what it is isthe abuse of the American ideal
of the individual.
In other words, you want tosell this individualism thing,
the idea that you can make upyour mind and do what you want
and the government can't tellyou what to do, blah, blah, blah

(34:59):
, blah, blah.
But you want to control whatthat individual does.
You want to make them feel likethey have free will, but
actually, through propaganda andaddictive behavior and all that
kind of stuff, you are beingable to pull the strings.
Just the way you know, peopleused to think that the other
Illuminatis used to pull thestrings.

(35:20):
Just the way you know, peopleused to think that the other,
the other Illuminati's, used topull the strings.
So who are the string pullers inthis particular incarnation of
this kind of thing?
I would submit that you knowthey don't care.
There's no such thing as acurtain anymore.
It's all out in the open.
I mean, you know, guys, youknow the people.
Most people will say well, elonMusk is really running the

(35:41):
government.
And you know there's a case tobe made there.
So you know.
The fact is, you need to.
You need to look at this kindof stuff and go real and really
look behind the curtain, whichis not the curtain that we grew
up to believe, like the QAnoncurtain, which is not the
curtain that we grew up tobelieve, like the QAnon curtain,

(36:02):
it's just a different kind ofcurtain that's going to enable
this kind of government to getin.
And I'm not saying that it'swrong, because it seems like
people are willing to vote forauthority figures.
They want authority figures.
They want somebody to tell themwhat to do figures.
They want authority figures.
They want somebody to tell themwhat to do.
And so these are the less free,the less choice, the less

(36:23):
confusing.
Choice is going to be better,and I can't really argue with
that, because life is aconfusing thing.
But when you think about it, Imean think about it.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
I can't imagine that one person who is of of from
this country, who loves theunited states, isn't about
freedom it's about freedom,freedom, freedom is the key
issue.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Yeah, freedom is a key issue, but it's not
necessarily you have to.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
But at what cost?

Speaker 3 (36:50):
that's the phrase that's the phrase that people
need to think about a lot.
What is exactly freedom?
What does that mean, you know?
What does that mean to you?
What does that mean to a largerconstruct like the united
states of america, whichprobably in my particular view,
probably shouldn't should ceaseto exist?
You know, in a way as at leasthave some fundamental change,

(37:13):
because you know you have stufflike I go to the polls to vote
for president, you know, yeah, Idon't want to vote for either
one of these fuckers, you know.
So, like you know, but I feellike, um, you know, I'm from
Queens, right, donald Trump isfrom Queens.
I know him, you know.
I'm not voting for him Right, solike, um, you know, and um so,

(37:34):
but I don't want to vote for her, so, but I so want to vote for
her, so, but I, so I vote forher.
And I, and even that I know,because I live in new york state
, which is a democratic state,that my vote means nothing.
So how does that, how does thatindicate that I'm a free person
, at least in terms of electoralpolicy?
And a lot of people feel likethey, and that's the reason why

(37:55):
you get 20 million people notshow up.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Disenfranchised.
I think that for those who andthis is where I get to do the
you know, the speculation andand and just kind of go over
what, what, what is actually putdown pen to paper or type
vertically or virtually to paperof what this project might look
like, what the HeritageFoundation might try to get an

(38:23):
administration to do, and is itto give him, you know, to
consolidate, are we looking forthe United States government to
consolidate executive power andpromote conservative policies
initiatives, spearheading by,you know, by by this heritage
foundation, that would basicallyessentially give, you know, I

(38:46):
don't think, the heritagefoundation has got a got an oar
in the water man.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
You know, I think that there are yesterday's
papers.
You know when you're.
You think anybody that thatthat is like you know lives in
some kind of place like outsideof Washington or in Georgetown
or has old money, wants MattGaetz to be the attorney general
.
I mean, come on, that is justnot.

(39:12):
Donald Trump is way past there.
You know these little kind oflike you know bureaucratic ideas
.
He doesn't care about that, youknow or what about like it
remains to be seen.
I'm willing to entertain at thismoment something I wouldn't
entertain, say, when we madethat last broadcast with mike

(39:32):
right right, that this mightactually be.
Who knows, maybe it'll bebetter, you know, maybe it will
be better.
You know, maybe thisauthoritarian idea will actually
improve the life of of people.
I doubt it, but it might.
I'm willing to.
I'm willing to wait and seewhat happens are we going to see
?

Speaker 2 (39:51):
are we going to see, a smaller, consolidated
government?
Are we going to see the?
You know the, you know the, theways of you know, abolishing
the department of education, as,as everyone is talking about?
Are we going to?

Speaker 3 (40:01):
see something.
Do you think that's a good idea, mary?

Speaker 2 (40:04):
I mean no, I'm not by any means.
I mean that's dumb, because wegot to think of, regardless of
what side of the fence you're on, we need american children to
grow up to be smart individualsand you're going to need some uh
, it's not you know, maybethey're going to put some uh,
someone in the department ofeducation to you know,
incentivize teachers.
Who knows how that looks for?

Speaker 3 (40:25):
you think that's really possible in this?
I mean, when you had betsydevos already, you know they're
probably gonna get somebody moreto the right than her, I mean,
which is almost impossible.
Um, you know so like, um, youknow the edge.
They want to abolish this, theuh department of education.
Maybe that's a good idea.
You know that could be a goodidea, because I mean, right, you

(40:46):
know it's interesting I mean,what about?
somebody like myself.
I am a states writer, now,right, I mean, when I grew up,
states rights meant georgewallace standing in the door not
letting black people intoschool, so therefore I was
against states rights.
But now, when it seems like thefederal government is going to
be more authoritarian and moreto the right than my particular

(41:10):
taste, while New York State ismessed up as it is with this
moron government we have mightturn out to be just because of
the people who live here, mightbe a much more conducive place
for me to live.
So therefore I'd rather go bythose laws than the laws that
are going to be passed by theCongress.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I mean, are we going to see a more authoritarian FCC
coming down on some of these bigbroadcast companies for the way
they report on, you know, onthe news?
Are we going to see somethinglike that?
To me that seems that we arenot the party of freedom.
This to me seems like arestrictive party, a party that

(41:48):
has moved away from some certainvalues like freedom.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Are you talking about the Republicans?

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Well, I think it's already happened.
I mean, it's already happened,you already see it.
You, you know they fracturedand they, you know the niche
marketing of the internet is ais a sea change.
You know that donald trump is.
The internet is the devil.
I mean he realizes that you goon, joe rogan.
You don't have beyonce on yourshow.

(42:16):
You, I mean you go on, joeRogan.
You talk to the people that youcan actually influence on a
one-to-one level.
You don't put on like you know.
I mean why, would Kamala Harrisrun exactly the same campaign
that Hillary Clinton did, whenshe's already lost?
What's the point?
Of that.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Why would you do a thing like that?
And even for her case sheshould have went on, joe rogan,
if joe said he invited her tocome on and they said, no, it's
not like joe.
I mean, let's, let's be, let'sbe honest.
I can't imagine joe rogan'sgonna sit there and go after her
.
I think he would have probablyhad a normal conversation with
her and they, and and becausewhat everyone is saying is the

(42:58):
substance was a little bitlacking of of you know, he was
probably going to ask her someinteresting questions that were
probably substance based and heprobably they probably couldn't
come to an agreement.
He said, hey, let's have aconversation.
It's the same thing I do on theshow.
I'm not going to send 25questions to an author or
someone like.
I'm not prescripting it.

(43:18):
It's not going to go down thatway.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
And that was just a failure of her ability to be
able to sing on her feet butthink about all the free press
that they got for that podcastyou know well, trump is an
entertainer.
He's a front man for uh andgood on him for world oligarchy.
As far you know why.
We see a good big picture, themega picture.
Right, you know trump and guyslike orban and putin and those

(43:43):
kind of guys like that they'recalled.
They're people that are called,uh, irredentists.
You know, not to get too hardor academic about it.
Irredentists are people likeevery single one of trump's
natural allies in the worldstays right now as it represents
a country that used to be anempire the Russian Empire, the

(44:06):
Austrian-Hungarian Empire, theconservative that's in Italy,
the Roman Empire, all thesepeople that feel like, you know,
yesterday was better than today.
Now we've got this shittylittle country, erdogan.
He's another guy.
The Ottoman Empire used toextend from the Caspian Sea all

(44:27):
the way into the middle ofEurope.
You know you don't think.
Those people still think aboutthose days.
Now, maybe we can get that back, you know.
So Trump's idea of make Americagreat again, which is, you know
it worked Did you ever askanybody what that meant?
No, what is this time with that?
America was so great backduring the segregation times

(44:50):
when they were like lynchingpeople.
And what are they talking?

Speaker 2 (44:52):
about the Reagan days .
That's got to be the Reagandays.
Right, it's got to be theReagan days Minus the economy
and all that he's been runningon this for the past.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
You know 16.
What's his 24?
Eight years he's been puttingout these hats.
It would be nice if youactually knew what it meant
before you put it on your head,right?

Speaker 2 (45:09):
so I mean, look, as you said, whatever the substance
was, it stuck.
Whatever was the substance inthe in the go.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
That's all that matters now right.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
I mean essentially.
I mean when you start to thinkabout it, I mean I, I don't know
man, I just going back throughthe entire thing, it's just an
interesting turn of events.
If you're, if you're a democrat, you know that's just how the
ball, the cookie crumbles.
And I know a lot of people werepretty.
We're probably distraught.
I mean, obviously the thetrends of things went up and

(45:42):
look, being in the conspiracy,you know to be in the in the
business of conspiracies and allyou know bigfoots and ufos, I
think you're.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
I think you're in trouble, mario.
No, I think your conspiracybusiness is in trouble why?
I think it's because youalready won, you know.
I mean it's like you know youneed the leftist, the so-called
leftist to be in power to toenable your product.
I'm not.
I love you, mario, and I hopeyou succeed in every way shape
form, but I mean the thing isthat like there's a certain kind

(46:12):
of thing of a market productthat it's like it needs a
certain kind of environment tobe able to survive.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Here's what I'm going to say, and we will continue to
survive, but I'm going to tellyou why Because we were sold.
We may have been sold ketchuppopsicles with white gloves.
Okay, we were wearing the whitegloves and they sold us ketchup
popsicles.
If this in fact goes the way ofa huge movement in this Project

(46:50):
2025, restrictive of rights, Imean what the courts are not
going to take your gun rightsaway, right?

Speaker 3 (46:56):
That's not going away .
You know I'm going to predictthat if these guys stay in power
and they consolidate theirpower, you're going to start to
see some restrictions on gunrights, because the existing
power does not want peoplerunning around with guns.
That's the reason why, you know, there's no guns in china.

(47:17):
People are stabbing each otherlike crazy, but they don't have
any guns because the power thereis completely there.
There it's a totalitariansystem but what so?

Speaker 2 (47:26):
what does that?

Speaker 3 (47:27):
want.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
The people have guns what's that do to a?
You know a, a red americanwhose gold blood is all all
american.
America, first god and country,and I have my gun, you know
what I mean.
Like what happens to thatindividual times change.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
I mean, you know you're gonna have to, like you
know, if you want to support I'mnot saying this is gonna happen
, I'm really not making aprediction here at all but I
mean the thing is like if, ifnobody would dispute, I think
the fact that, like you know,this is a more, or, you know,
depending on like you know, thisis a more, or, you know,
depending on what yourdefinition of this word is a
more, the coming time is goingto be a more authoritative time

(48:05):
and you've got the executiveofficer, you know, telling you
that he's going to make theseappointments which are likely to
be unpopular, even with himcontrolling both houses of the
Congress, that he's going to doit during the recess because he
doesn't want anybody to sayanything bad about it.
That's a kind of like I'd saythat's sort of authoritarian.

(48:26):
So, like you know, if that'sthe way it's going to be and
people are going to buy into it,then eventually they're going
to say it's not going to be toolong before gun rights.
I mean the reason why let merefresh people's memory if they
ever can think about this thereason why California has such
liberal I mean conservative, Iguess gun rights.

(48:50):
You know that it's difficult toget a gun in California as
opposed to some other states isbecause the Black Panthers
showed up at one of these trialsand Jonathan Jackson or
something like that, and theywere exerting their Second
Amendment rights to have guns.
And once Ronald Reagan, who wasthe governor of the state at
the time, got a look at that, hesaid, well, we got to do
something about that and theyput in a bunch of gun laws.

(49:11):
So you know, there's going tobe something like that.
It's going to be something likethat and then the government is
going to be upset about it andthey're going to start telling
you that you can't this and thatyou know, maybe not conceal
carry is a bad idea.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
No more open carry.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Yeah, you know like well, open carry is bizarre to
me to begin with.
You know, you go to thesupermarket and a lady who's,
like you know, 40, an80-year-old lady has got a
little raspberry-handled gun.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
You know, 40 an 80 year old lady has got a little
raspberry handled gun.
You know that seems like wow,this is I mean I just told the
story coming from where I'mcoming from.
It seems weird you know, I mean,you know, I mean, I mean, I
just told the story.
I just told the story last week, uh on the on the show, uh, and
made a clip on uh on theyoutubers uh page that when I
was in Chipotle guy didn't wantto wear his mask, which is fine,

(50:02):
you do what you want to do andhe was.
This is during the pandemic.
He was open carrying.
Well, I'm in Chipotle linewaiting to have.
You know, I want a bowl ofChipotle, right, and my dad
would probably be pissed if heheard this right now.
But so we're in Chipotle and theguy has his gun.
He has his open, his open carry, and I can see it, and the guy

(50:23):
next to him is like flailing hisarms, doing his thing.
I'm like this guy doesn't seeanything that's going on right
now, oblivious to the guy, buthe goes like this he puts his
hand on his gun to protect it.
He orders his food.
I laugh.
I'm like, well, if this isgoing to be the way I go out,
I'm going to have hot sauce allover me, but I'm going out with
a bowl of Chipotle dinner.

(50:46):
So, to get back on the topic,people should be freaked out if
they're going to start revokingrights.
I mean we're talking about, hey, you want to know, it's like
you know.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
I mean I mean it's gonna be some pushback I mean, I
mean, this is gonna be pushbackwhich there always right, but
even like how that pushback isgoing to manifest itself is not
yet determined, and the peoplethat are currently in charge of
the pushback are completelyincompetent at that.
So you're going to need somedifferent people to run that

(51:23):
pushback and we're going to haveto see what happens, and I
think about maybe year two orsomething like that of the
second Trump administration.
It'll happen because itinevitably happens.
The reason why Biden ran againis because they couldn't believe
they didn't lose seats in 2022.

(51:43):
You know they're going, wow,fantastic, we didn't lose seats.
So, um, you know, let's, let'sjust.
You know they were stupidenough to go with the status quo
, so, um, they didn't know theguy was a blithering idiot.
So, uh, you know, but, um, youknow, but you know they made a
mistake and it was a grievousmistake.
So you know, I mean it's goingto happen.

(52:06):
Trump is going to get lesspopular than he is now, and then
how is that unpopularity goingto manifest itself?
And who is going to attempt tomove into that void of power
that Trump is now holding,because his power base is going
to shrink?
It's inevitable.
I mean, if it's not inevitable,that means that you've got some

(52:28):
kind of like Mussolini-typepeople running around telling
people that they better thinkthis way, which is not really
where we're at yet, thank God,and I don't believe that's ever
going to happen.
I'm a loyal American.
I don't believe that's evergoing to happen.
I'm a loyal American.
I don't think that's going tohappen.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
I mean for the sake of my business, anything's
possible, right.
I mean you could see massdeportation.
This might be the most, thiscould be the most aggressive
stance on immigration that couldpossibly take place a mass
deportation.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Well, mario, I can tell by the last syllable of
your name, the last letter ofyour name, that you have an
immigrant background.
I can tell that A lot of peoplefeel that way.
Sure, I'm a second-generationAmerican.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
America is a great place that you can go from the
old country to producing somebeatnik like myself in one
generation, so like you know umyeah, I mean born in interesting
, born in Seattle, lived here myentire life, you know yeah, but
you, you, you know that, youknow you have another life
before them well, I mean, I mean, there are, there have been

(53:40):
social media posts that I'veseen that have said certain
things that we only voted for,for, for trump, for, you know,
for racial reasons, I mean, I, I, I, it was quite interesting to
see.
Uh, if I can find it again, I'llsend it your direction, but it
was, it was pretty astonishing.
Look, regardless of how this isgoing to play out, uh, this

(54:00):
could this, this could be, wecould have been, you could have
been sold something that may notwork.
You want a refund?
You, you'll have a chance youmay want to refund there's no
refund, but you might want one.
You might want one, I mean, ifyou're going to start losing
your rights and this is where Iwant to go.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
Donald trump is a guy who doesn't even pay people
that work for him.
You think he's going to giveyou a refund on that?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
I?
I probably not, but here.
Here's what I want to get tobefore as we, before we wrap
these, this whole show up here.
If bill cooper was alive, whatthe hell do you think he would
have said about 2025, project2025 and I think he would say it
was a lot of restriction ofamerican rights.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
You know, I think that's what he would think.
I would hope that's.
You know, I'm a bill cooper fan.
You know I recognize that hehas a lot of shortcomings, but
I'm basically I wouldn't havewritten a book about him if I
didn't think he was basicallysomebody who was interesting
enough to write a book about.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
So you know, I would hope that he would feel that way
and I think he would, becauseyou know he would be going
against the grain and say look,wake up, Are you doing your
research?

Speaker 3 (55:06):
Some people are just naturally contrarian, you know,
and I think he's probably one ofthose kind of people.
But yeah, I don't, I will go tomy grave believing that
somebody like Bill Cooper.
I will go to my grave believingthat somebody like Bill Cooper,
who puts a lot of uh, you know,um, emphasis on thinking for

(55:26):
yourself and, like you know,seeing through the bullshit and
all that kind of stuff, At leastthis is the ideal case of him,
would think that, like man, it'smore than me, See, I hear I
mean, come on, let's, let's notjust buy all this stuff.
You know, just because you're afan of Barstool Sports doesn't
mean that you definitely shouldvote for this guy.

(55:47):
I mean, give me a break.
I mean, the whole bro cultureis really kind of a little
disturbing to me, man.
I mean, that's the Vance world.
That's.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Vance world.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
The right-wing technocrats who are basically
running this show here.
Um, they, you know, they'rethinking that donald trump's
gonna die in a couple years.
I mean, how many cheeseburgerscan a guy eat?
And then, um, and he'll croak,and then they'll make him into
this great mar and hero.
And then their guy you know, mrVance will rise up with his

(56:20):
little beard, you know, andhe'll, you know.
Just, you know, then you mightworry about the Project 2025
thing, because Donald Trumpdoesn't listen to what's in a
book.
He does whatever he wants to do.
So and he's more power to him.
You know, a lot of prickswanted to be the president of
the united states.

(56:40):
He's the only one that managedto get it right.
So you gotta hand it to the guy, you know.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
So the guy that went against the world.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
For that you know.
But um, there aren't manypeople like that.
He's a, he's a sui generisperson, as they say.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
You know, and um, there just aren't very many
people like that it'sinteresting, someone who spent
most of his time as a uh knownfor spending a lot of time with
democrats and and then taking,you know, a stance and uh
flipping to a party that uhwelcomed him in to um becoming
the, the, the, the the new faceof of the republican party, and

(57:20):
well, take a look at, take alook at, go back and you know if
you're in the moves.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Take a look at 2012, when donald trump first comes
out with the birther thing,which is the beginning of donald
trump as a plan, as as aserious political candidate, as
strange as it may seem.
Um, the Republican Party, afterlosing with Mitt Romney and
John McCain, began to realizethat they can't run these kind

(57:46):
of middle-of-the-road,old-school Republican guys like
you know Mitt Romney, you knowone of the things that killed
him was that he was the head ofBain Capital.
You know, the worst kind ofpeople, you know.
Then everybody hated those kindof people, you know, because
they were the ones that seemedto be exactly the kind of people

(58:07):
that all the conspiracy peoplewould hate.
Right, the controllers ofcapital, these kind of deep
capitalist system guys you know,really calling the shots from
behind the, from behind closeddoors and stuff like that.
So they had a meeting theRepublican Party and they began
to figure out, like how can webuild a candidate who is going

(58:28):
to be able to win elections?
Look it up, I mean, it's notfar away, you can find it easily
and they decided, stupidlyenough, that they would become
more kind of like egalitarian,they would come up with
something which was like youknow, they put more black people
in all that kind of stuff.
That was their idea, which wasabout the stupidest thing if you

(58:49):
want to win elections.
So when donald trump comesalong and he's got a completely
different agenda and he wins,they go.
We never thought that.
We never thought that.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
He wanted to drain the swamp.
I mean, let's Drain the swamp.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
That is also another one of these bullshit things.
You want to get rid ofeverybody who knows anything
about their job.
Right, that's what you want todo.
That doesn't sound like areally.
If you ran a business, wouldyou fire every single person who
actually had been knewsomething about their job?

Speaker 2 (59:26):
if I'm trying to be a dictator, yes.
If I'm trying to be a dictatorand they're not a loyalist, then
yes, that's what we would do.
That's what you do, right I?

Speaker 3 (59:33):
agree with exactly what you just said.
So you know, put that in yourpipe and smoke it, because the
thing is that like um, but yeah,you don't want to like is that
really where you want?
To live.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
You know, I mean you want these people to have power
over you well, I'm that's andthat hence the reason why we
have to do the show.
I mean it's got to be put outthere.
I mean we got to think forourselves.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
We need to remember.
You might be, you know, afterthis you might turn into like
you know this left-wing show,who knows?

Speaker 2 (59:57):
I mean, who knows?

Speaker 3 (59:58):
I mean who knows, who knows?

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
But we're always, I think, the biggest thing,
regardless on who wins theelection someone has, who knows
who won.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
Well, I mean right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
In future elections.
I think it's always not alwayssexy, but it's good to talk
about what could possibly be oneof the most.
I mean right now is the biggestthing right now 2020, 2025
project.
This is the thing thateveryone's Googling and
searching.
We got to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
You know it's not like, well, I mean, I think
people want to look at it.
I think they should look up thehistory of the Heritage
Foundation which began.
Which is the author of thisparticular document?
Which Trump I mean?
The reason why the Democratswere harping on it is because
there were so many people thatwere the authors of this
document that used to work inthe Trump administration.
But the fact of the matter isthe Trump administration between

(01:00:54):
2016 and 2020 and the moreSteve Bannon-oriented 2024
victory.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
It's a different thing well, sure, I mean, think
about it if you're, if you're aliberal, if you're a liberal,
lgbt, plus uh rights, that couldbe uh an issue for you.
Abortion access, um, I mean how?

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
do you know?
Those are all losing issues,right?
That's what's been demonstrated.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Well, you know, I mean, in any case, a party that
we, we I like to call the partyof freedom, which isn't as we,
we like to say, is no longerwhat the party is, but it to me,
it just makes me say, hey look,guys, just remember, remember
what we were sold, so that weknow in the future.

(01:01:42):
Do your research, know what'sgoing on, because you know what.
I'm not always buying thebullshit that's being put to
paper or spewed on the internet,because everything now is
speculation.
I spend more time researchingand looking at stuff and I'm
like, man, was that real?
Was that ai?
What did I just get fed?

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
I think that's main question.
That's something you really gotto think about, because now I
mean everybody who's reallyupset about being abducted by
aliens, you know stuff like that.
You're being abducted by alienson a daily basis, right?
I mean that was last year, Imean that was a couple weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
That was a show we just did recently, but, yeah,
uaps is a thing.
Is that a distraction?
Did recently?
But, yeah, uap's is a thing.
Is that a distraction?
Are we seeing a distraction?
Is that a distraction?
Is that hearing that hearingwas already meant to matt, that
hearing was already happening,regardless on who was elected,
who was going to be the elect,the person elected to sit in the
, the future house of the, youknow the presidency.
So, regardless, it's not likesome conspiracy saying, oh

(01:02:43):
they're, it's, this is adistraction for blah, blah, blah
, blah.
What's really?
Let's, let's be, let's behonest.
The distraction was mike tysonfight.
That was.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
That was that see, I used to be a huge boxing fan and
I would go to fights all thetime and I just completely lost
interest in this thing and thiswas this.
I didn't even pay attention tothat.
I mean the idea that you got a60 year old guy fighting with a
guy fighting against a youtubestar and you know how you take
that seriously on 60 millionpeople not only is he a youtube

(01:03:16):
star, but he's a former I reallywant to live in.
I mean he's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
He's not even.
He's also a former disney startoo.
It's just interesting to me andmy daughter and I, we we were a
low mark.
That was a low very much a lowmark.
But you know what?
It was cool to see that mydaughter and I were.
She was like I hope mike tysonjust pounds him and I'm like
we'll see.
But you know, I mean like you'regonna root for, you're gonna

(01:03:42):
root for a convicted rapistright, you know over this guy
just because he's more realright, but I think I think that
this is something that americahas come to see at least, this
is what I observed is I thinkamerica has forgotten what is
today.
What was yesterday's headline,is not today's news because

(01:04:02):
clearly, none of that was evenbrought up at all.
None of that was brought up,mark I mean.
I mean that really just showshow we've become as a society,
on how people think it's anaddictive it's an addictive
society it's an addict.
Give you another hit, we'll giveyou another hit.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
That is it man, it's just let me give you that TV
show does.
Well, what do they say?
It's addictive.
Like you know, I'm telling youright, it's a society of addicts
and um and that, that kind oflike.
When you tap, when you tap intothat, you become like Trump and

(01:04:41):
his guys and and the Democratstoo, I mean, they're all
sacklers.
They're all sacklers.
They're all people that arebetting on the fact that people
are going to keep on doing whatthey do habitually and they're
not going to be looking aroundbecause all they care about is
the next fix.
So that's the downside of beinga junkie.

(01:05:03):
You know, it kind of narrowsyour vision.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
But if you get the tunnel, tunnel vision, it's all
about you.
It's not about about you andgetting and getting high man.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
You know you're talking about talk to a long
time pothead, you know.
But so you know um right Idon't know you know, I just feel
like it's going to beinteresting to see what happens,
because society goes on a longtime.
I mean, for instance, I waslooking up um this idea.
I saw an article in today's newyork times.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Pardon the expression the women are giving up men oh,
the 4b movement, yeah, yeah,they're gonna give up okay that
that's gonna be fantastic forthe future.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
Right, no reproduction.
That was the first.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
That was the first thing I said.
I was like why would you dothat if you're if you're, if
you're a liberal, why would youdo that?
In fact, maybe you should havemore.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
You're not a liberal you're not a liberal, because
that's one another thing whichis really too bad is that the
term liberal has been sodemonized in this society that,
um, you know, if you admit thatyou're, that, you're a person, a
liberal person, who is willingto entertain, which really means
you're willing to entertain alldifferent kinds of ideas, you

(01:06:14):
know it is not necessarily thatyou're like, gonna be like
andrea dworkin or uh, you know,whatever bad demons people think
of liberals.
You know, um, it's just one ofthese terms that gets, gets
demonized, and then people hateit.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
So whoever is a part of the 4b movement.
I mean, I don't know, man, II'm all about, do your thing.
Uh, I don't know that, that'sthat.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
You know that, do your thing luckily, there are
only about 20 of these people.
I don't know, they're there, Ithink they're, I think they're.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
they are probably larger numbers out there.
Although I'm not seeing them onthe dating sites, I'm still
getting dates.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
So that's a good sign .
Well, I mean look, I'm notmarried.
I'm not married.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I'm not married, mark .
I want to settle down.
I want to have someone to hangout with, want to have you know,
someone to hang out with andyou know, to be able to grow old
with and you know just, youknow these, these people are off
, are off the radar for you, butfor sure they're not going to
be available, you know I mean,every single one of them is
really fantastic looking

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
I'm, oh, I'm sure, I'm sure they're just I mean at
times at risk, at risk of sayingsomething that you shouldn't
say ah, ah, yeah, well, yeah,but I mean a bro culture.
The incel culture is a victor.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
It really seems to be that.
I don't know.
It's not even a Gen X thing, Ithink it's more of a that bro
culture, is that new?
I don't even want to say names,man, but it is out there big
time right now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Bro, culture, I mean's it's on tv have you ever
seen so much sports on tv, haveyou and you know?
Have you ever seen any of thiskind of stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
mark, I'll tell you why you're seeing all the tv
stuff, all the stuff becauseeverything it's so it's cheap.
I mean to you know, to producethis stuff it is cheap.
I mean, look at radio stationsacross the country right now are
laying people off.
Maybe it's because they'regoing to go to state radio and
we just don't know yet.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
But but well, I mean, how can you be against?
You know, npr is really boring.
What would npr be like if itwas actually interesting?

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
I mean, but what?
The show's not being run on npr, that's for sure, because they
will not take the show Iwouldn't take the show, but the
thing is that they've, you know,some better npr might take your
show so like you know, uh, theidea is that you just have to
break out of these boxes thatthey put you in.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
This is the main idea of the society right now.
To put you in a stupid littlebox that's been self-determined
of like I'm not going to be inthat box, so I better be in this
one, you know?

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
and if you're not going to really be really
willing to think for yourself or, like, do your own research in
an actual comprehensive way, asopposed to being lazy and stupid
about this sort of stuff, youknow like, well, yeah, it looks
to me like, uh, right well, yeah, whatever the commies are bad
you know right well it could beanybody, it could be any of them

(01:09:12):
, it could be any of us, that,that that could be in that
emperor, uh, in that piece Imean, look, take resistance,
baby resist, and that's whatright we're gonna need it,
resist the contemporary order ofthings and acknowledge the fact
.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
I mean, I was getting these texts from people like
you know.
Trump is a winner, right?
So these people, all they cando is complain.
I said do you see anythinghappening that's good in the
future?
Or you just want to bitch aboutthe past?
And then nobody has anything tosay.
Yeah, to bitch about the past,and then then, then nobody has

(01:09:51):
anything to say, yeah, theysuddenly, they suddenly, their,
their channel suddenly goesblank when you're asking about,
like you know what do you?
What kind of society?
I know what you hate.
Tell me what you like.
You know, like, um, you know, ortell me like a better future, a
better tomorrow as opposed to amore miserable yesterday.
You know, and then, and all thethings that you're bitching
about and griping about, justtake that off the table and see

(01:10:15):
what's left.
All right, you know, do thatfor me, and then I'll, then I'll
start listening to you more.
You know, because I'm just, Igot it memorized all the gripes,
all the grievances.
I got it memorized all thegripes, all the grievances, all
the stuff that people hate.
You know that this is thereason why I'm not doing better
in this world.
Never look at me.

(01:10:35):
It's always somebody else'sfault.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
That's their own downfall.
Why don't?

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
we just get rid of that.
That would be good.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
That's their own downfall for being that, you
know, small-minded.
You know you've got to thinkoutside the box.
You got to be a thinker.
You got to be ingenuitive, yougot to recreate yourself.
You got to continue to growGrowth mindset.
Ladies and gentlemen, you gotto have growth mindset, and I
kid about that piece.
But in regards to do what's bestfor you, whatever that might be

(01:11:02):
, I don't know, maybe it's reada book.
You know, do something withyourself and and don't, if
you're upset with the election,then make sure you you get
involved.
Do something that would betteroff for your party.
I don't know what that might be, but I'll tell you right now
I'm going to continue to be afree thinker.
I'm going to continue to do asmany shows as I possibly can and
if I see something that I thinkthat needs to be sniffed out,

(01:11:25):
we're going to continue to talkabout it, regardless if it's
good, bad ugly, maybe it's sexy,maybe it's a whole, maybe we're
doing the 2020.
You know, we're going to do theprediction show coming up and
we're going to have MichaelParker back on and for God knows
.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
I'm bringing.
I want to see Mike.
Come on, Mike.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
We want you back.
Come, um, he's coming.
He's coming.
I know he'll come back on, butbut think I'm gonna.
I gotta give you some doomsdayscenarios, maybe they'll.
You know, things are gonnachange, are we gonna?
Who knows?
I I mean, we'll have some funwith it.
But again, if you're part ofthe what is that culture?

(01:12:02):
Everyone gets a uh, you knowone of these uh, participation
awards.
I don't remember getting thoseback in the day when we did you
gotta get rid of that shit.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
I mean, there's, like you know it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
I mean, I think about it, I have some honest
competition here?

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
sure, there was none of that there was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
There was none of that back in the day, man, there
was none of that.
When you, you did field day,there was like you did field day
, you, there was like you didfield day and you got one, first
, second and third place.

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
There's some kind of community.
One of the things that's veryimportant, I think, and people
are not thinking about it, islike how do you build a better
community?
What are the things that peoplehave in common that you can
begin to, you know, find someidentity in yourself from others

(01:12:52):
, you know, as opposed to thiscrazy fucking American ideal,
which is not really an Americanideal of this individual I stand
alone.
Nobody tells me what to do.
I mean great.
I mean you want to doomyourself to ignorance?
Go ahead, right ahead.
I mean the past is mean.
You want to doom yourself toignorance?
Go ahead, right ahead.
I mean the past is of nointerest to you.
You know I don't care about it.

(01:13:13):
You know that's yesterday.
When did that happen?
You know who cares?
That stuff is just, it's wrong,it's just not human.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
Well, I think we're going to see more of the.
I think the kid gloves arecoming off.
I think we're going to be ableto walk without wearing a
balloon anymore.
You're going to start to seethat.
If, if, if, if what you'reseeing is a trend in the bro
culture, you're going to see alot of the, the politically
correct stuff that we've seen inthe last, you know, 15 years,

(01:13:48):
12 years.
Uh, I think that's going to.
You're going to see a lot ofthat change.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
You're going to, if they want us if they want to
just be part of their own littlecarass there.
You can keep on telling peoplethat you're never speaking to
them if you use the wrongpronoun, but you know more power
to them.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
I don't want to talk to them, so, like you, know,
look, everyone, everybody's gotto give a little bit, sure, sure
, I think you're seeing a lot ofthat too, mark.
You're seeing a lot of that.
Our guest this evening, uh,mark jabrielson.
Uh, author, journalist.
Uh, you can find him at uh oninstagram, at pale horde writer

(01:14:28):
book.
We'll have him linked in thepodcast.
Um, as we wrap things up, fromthe pacific northwest and all
the way on the east side of thecountry, on the east coast, one
coast to the net, from one coastto the next oh yeah, from one
coast I'm gonna give me ceaseand assist you're to get me a
cease

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
and assist.
You're going to get me a ceaseand assist letter from those
guys?

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
Really, no, I don't give a.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
You know what?
I still long to hear you in theIntro In the art bell chair.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Yeah, you know, maybe one day, maybe one day it will.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
Actually on another topic.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Did you see?

Speaker 3 (01:15:07):
this thing on Netflix , I think about the Manhattan
alien abduction case.
Yeah, actually, you know, Iactually personally, my wife and
I saw that.
We happened to be walkingunderneath by the Brooklyn
Bridge and we saw that saucer.
Oh, that's right, we did.
We saw that woman, carol Rainrainey, who supposedly she's

(01:15:29):
married.
She was married to bud hopkins,right, I mean, she called me on
the phone because I had writtenabout seeing this right thing.
You know, whatever it was rightand um, it was weird man.
It's very weird.
It doesn't seem like a verygood show, but I haven't watched
it.
To me, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
You think the guy who does this, this show, would
would show, would be like kneedeep into all that stuff.
But to be honest with you, ifit ain't headlines and I'm not
seeing it and I'm not doing myown research on it I'm not
watching it.
I mean, I did watch the.
There are some that I'll watch,like the Bill Cooper thing, and
my daughter and I were like whyis there seven episodes of Bill

(01:16:06):
Cooper?
He hijacked a plane.
It didn't take very long.
Why is this db, db, cooper?

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
yeah, db cooper yeah bill db cooper.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Sorry, thank you, um, please.
Yeah, not.
Yeah, he didn't skyjacket play,but anyhow we when we were
watching the db cooper thing itwas like way drawn out.
It should have been maybe,maybe an hour and a half, maybe
an hour episode, but it was a,you know, a six-part series or
four-part series and mydaughter's like um, this is way

(01:16:33):
too long.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
I just you know it's way too long.
Yeah, she's like it's way toolong she goes.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Well, this is, she goes.
And it's dumb, she she is.
She is a believer that, um, Iforget the uh, not uh, db cooper
was.
I forget the guy's name whohijacked the plane in san
francisco uh, mccoy.
Uh, uh, his name was mccoy orsomething like that.
Um, but my daughter's, likethat, was bill cooper or william

(01:17:00):
or db cooper, not bill cooperman.
I get all the coopers allmessed up and they're not
related, by the way.
Right, so, db cooper, obviously, but um mark, interesting to
think, with this whole ufo thingbeing so trendy right now, you
know, and you know it's always.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
It never goes out of style, man.
Come on, man ec come on, I meannever will, never will until
until it's proven one way or theother, and it'll never be I I
mean you know us us doing showson it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
It was perfect timing .

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
Because it's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Yeah, it's always fun , I mean that's real, actual
speculation.
I mean that was a great start.
I mean for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
It involves actual thought and thinking about the
space of the universe, you know,as opposed to these little kind
of and the propaganda is, youknow, I mean propaganda is a bad
thing.
So, like you know, let's justtalk about a topic, that's yeah,
fine, I'm just different.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
It, just it changes the narrative.
It gives you something to thinkabout.
That's not the last you knowheadline news of what's been
going on and takes you out thatescape from reality.
Uh, yeah, you know, I mean I.
I will say this when we're onthe radio, when we're on the
radio show in in seattle on 570,our flagship station, kbi, it

(01:18:20):
is an honor to be that art bellflanks at 9 pm and then we go on
at 10 so art leads the art,leads the move and then hands
the baton to to us at 10 pm weare going to use the haywire
bell.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
Oh, I know he does, that was his but.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
But he also had this thing for for uh ag to alex
jones later on he was like callhim a kind of a yeah people
don't like competition.
Yeah, well, I mean hence thereason why you know good on
george and those guys over there.
They do a good job.
I mean, they do what they dothey've asked me on a few times.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
I'm just trying to go on here's what I will say.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
There's plenty of space for everybody to be where
they need to be.
I'm in my lane, they're intheir lane.
They do what they do.
I do what I do maybe it's notyou know, I mean, and that's how
it just plays out.
But I will tell you this in2025, it is my goal.
I've made it very, very clearlythat we will be on more radio
stations in 2025, moving forward.

(01:19:25):
That is the plan, that is thegoal, and maybe we'll be on tv.
It will be a lot harder, itwill be the makeup on?
oh no oh man, come on right, youcan put you in the.
I will tell you, this tv ismuch harder to do because,
producing wise what we've done,I'll have to go back.

(01:19:46):
I would have to go back and andedit some and most of those you
know of our conversation, notfor the F-bombs, for the
explicit content, but you knowwhat I mean.
If you watch Game Day or youknow Pat McAfee I mean, but
we're on terrestrial radio so itchanges it and same with you
know.
Well, I mean Game Day is not onnormal TV so you don't see that

(01:20:08):
in all the cable network stuff.
So that's why you've seen a lotof these F-bombs and things
like that getting passed throughbecause it's like F-bombs.
You go back and you know you'llwatch some of this Pat McAfee
stuff.
Man, it's kind of funny.

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
I try not to watch people that wear life beaters on
TV.
Yeah, kind of funny wherethey're like I.
I try not to watch people thatwear life beaters on tv.
Yeah, you know, I mean it is.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
It is right, it is what it is but, he you know when
he dresses up for you forcollege game day.
But you're right, it's just adifferent, you know mentality.

Speaker 3 (01:20:38):
But that, that was just you know I just, um, you
know, I feel like if I'minterested in sports, I want to
hear them talk about sports.
I don't want to hear him talkabout his private life or any of
that kind of stuff like that,because it's not interesting to
me.
So, in any event, it's beengreat.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Yeah, as we wrap things up here from the Pacific
Northwest and the East Coast ofNew York, our guest tonight,
mark Jacobson, who is ajournalist, because you say
you're're retired, butjournalists never retire I'm not
even saying I'm retiringanymore, I'm just you know I
accepted the reality that I'mnever going to retire right um,

(01:21:16):
unfortunately forme we'll have the the links
provided below.
But again, as um, we say, if,if you're, if you're nervous
about the 2025, project 2025,and it's coming to get you, do
your research.
That's all we're saying.
Just do your research, know thefacts, understand.

(01:21:37):
That's all I can say.
We'll have some links thatwe'll provide.
If you're too maybe you're not,maybe you need the Cliff Notes
version We'll provide that inthe podcast so that you, you'll
have the podcast.
uh, cliff notes are us.
Yeah, cliff notes are usproject.
Project 2025 for dummies isgoing to be available on this

(01:21:58):
phenomenon we're going to writethe book.

Speaker 3 (01:21:59):
Well, that works both ways.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
Yeah, right for my entire team.
Uh, I'd like to thank our guesttonight.
Thank you, uh, mark, for comingto hang out with us, for our,
for my entire team, uh, mark,christopher sofia magana and
myself, mario magana.
Be sure to look up at the sky,because you never know what you
might see.
Good night.
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