March 17, 2024 • 48 mins
What does the music industry have to teach us about giving music out for free? In Ep#59 we're going to learn from Prince, Radiohead & 50 Cent about how to adapt to change & delay monetary gratification.
Huge thanks to Deezlaughs, Chad F & Sam Sethi for supporting the show (plus everyone streaming as well). You all make this show happen!
40% of this episode is going to Cole, Sven, The Doerfels and the app developers who make this all possible.
Extra Links:
Radiohead Interview: https://youtu.be/V-4CpJyZ4Yw
Thunderroad Media: https://thunderroad.media/live-is-lit/
Timeline:
(0:00) - Intro
(1:19) - Why Make It Free?
(3:22) - Quote 1
(8:37) - Why Pay If It's Free?
(9:54) - Quote 2
(12:10) - In Rainbows' Radiohead Interview
(16:07) - Why Does It Seem Scary?
(18:18) - Quote 3
(21:56) - Why Is The Money In Merch & Touring?
(27:43) - Boostagram Lounge
(32:54) - Latest Developments
(37:50) - Why Bitcoin
(40:47) - V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure
(43:13) - Freedom by Vale Ramirez
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
Connect With My V4V Collaborators:
Cole: https://twitter.com/colemccormick1
Sven: https://twitter.com/StarfuryFlames
The Doerfels: https://www.doerfelverse.com/
Vale Ramirez: https://valeramirez.com/
Huge thanks to Deezlaughs, Chad F & Sam Sethi for supporting the show (plus everyone streaming as well). You all make this show happen!
40% of this episode is going to Cole, Sven, The Doerfels and the app developers who make this all possible.
Extra Links:
Radiohead Interview: https://youtu.be/V-4CpJyZ4Yw
Thunderroad Media: https://thunderroad.media/live-is-lit/
Timeline:
(0:00) - Intro
(1:19) - Why Make It Free?
(3:22) - Quote 1
(8:37) - Why Pay If It's Free?
(9:54) - Quote 2
(12:10) - In Rainbows' Radiohead Interview
(16:07) - Why Does It Seem Scary?
(18:18) - Quote 3
(21:56) - Why Is The Money In Merch & Touring?
(27:43) - Boostagram Lounge
(32:54) - Latest Developments
(37:50) - Why Bitcoin
(40:47) - V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure
(43:13) - Freedom by Vale Ramirez
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
Connect With My V4V Collaborators:
Cole: https://twitter.com/colemccormick1
Sven: https://twitter.com/StarfuryFlames
The Doerfels: https://www.doerfelverse.com/
Vale Ramirez: https://valeramirez.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What does the musicindustry have to teach us
about giving away musicfor free?
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Welcome everyone
(00:20):
to another episode of theValue for Value Podcast
broadcasting live hereon the 18th of March 2024.
This is the podcast
for Digital Contentcreators
who want to connect deeper
with their audience,perhaps
look at some differentways of monetising.
Although you might bewondering like monetising
and you're talking about
giving away stufffor free,
(00:40):
how does that work?
Well, we'regoing to dive into that
in this episode today.
So we'regoing to be learning
from the bookFree by Chris Anderson.
I have previously donea book review of this
on the main
models, book reviews,
if you wanted to dive intothe full book of that.
But we're going to befocusing in particular
from about pages
153 to 161, and we've gotsome juicy quotes
(01:01):
from from Cole coming upto help explain that.
So what we're going tolearn in particular
is a marketing slashgrowth tactic,
if you want to put itthat way.
Some counterintuitivebehaviour
that you'll see
from your audienceand your friends,
and alsohow to face the feel, the.
Feel. Of free.
So let's just jump
right into thisand why make it free?
(01:22):
Why should you makeyour music free?
If you are a musician,
you're putting stuff outthere.
Doesn'tthat that sounds weird.
Why would you do that?
Now this is linkeddirectly to the next point
that I'm going to make,
which is opposing it,
coming at itfrom the fan side
of thingsand why they would pay.
But we'll start here.
We'll start from the
creative side first,because this is the,
you know,
the Value for Valuepodcast,
(01:43):
mostly directed at peoplewho are
trying to understandif you're a creator,
why you would do this.
You've got to do thisfirst,
and then you can get the
value backfrom your audience.
Now, the reason to offer
your creation for freeis that wide
interest in your product
will ultimately ultimatelyallow you to
to make more money offof it.
Or perhaps even freedom
is the better wayto to categorise this. And
(02:06):
then once you havefreedom, you can choose to
make moneyhowever you want.
You know,
essentially,once you get to
a high enough levelas a musician
and I'm goingto be focusing
just on musicians today,but these
these apply broadly toother types of creators.
But we'll focus onthe musician niche.
You can dowhatever the hell you want
once, onceyou've got freedom, once
you've got enough money,it's like now
(02:28):
you just get to choosewhat you choose to create,
how you go about doing it,and trying
to find the most exciting,interesting ways.
And you might be thinking,okay, well, I'm not the
you know,I'm not Kanye, I'm not ye
I'm not at this
the high enough levelwhere I can just do
whatever the hellyou want.
Well,
I think a lot of the valuefor value
concepts will allow you
(02:48):
to get to that levelif you want.
If you're aimingfor stardom,
if you're aimingfor things like this.
And it's essentiallythe acknowledgement,
I think
if you're givingsomething away for free
that you could makea small gain.
Now if you were tojust keep it locked in
and like,here's a price on it,
I want to create this
and I want some immediategratification from that.
(03:10):
But it's going to reallystunt your growth.
Or you can have,
you know, none of the
upfront payments,but you have
much larger in the future.
Once you have grown, once
you can do whateverthe hell you want.
So we're goingto start off
with a quote from page 155here of the book.
And we're going to learnhow Prince did something
a little bitcounterintuitive of
(03:31):
not only just giving his
his music away for free,but actually paying
to give it away.
So Cole will take us awayhere.
How can a music CDB free?
In July 2007,Prince debuted his new
album Planet Earthby stuffing a copy
retail value $19
into 2.8 millionissues of the Sunday
edition of London'sDaily Mail.
(03:53):
The paperoften includes a CD,
but this wasthe first time
it featured all newmaterial from a star.
How can a platinum artistgive away a new release?
And how could a newspaper
distribute itfor Free of charge?
Prince spurred ticketsales.
Strictly speaking,
the artistlost money on the deal.
He charged the Daily Mail
a licensing fee of $0.36
(04:13):
a disc ratherthan his customary $2.
But he more than made up
the difference in ticketsales.
The purple one sold out21 shows at London's O2
Arena in August,bringing him
record concertrevenue for the region.
The Daily Mail boostedits brand.
The freebie bumped upthe newspaper's
circulation 20% that day.
(04:33):
That broughtin extra revenue,
but not enough to coverexpenses.
Still, Daily Mail execsconsider the giveaway
a success.
Managing editor Stephen
Miron says the gimmickworked
editoriallyand financially.
Because we're pioneers,advertisers want
to be with us.
Carl will love that.
That'sexactly how I imagined,
(04:54):
thoughit would sound as well.
So it's interestingto note with this
this kind of explanation,with this deal
that happened, thatneither party
actually made moneyout of this
in terms of the strictfinancial dealings
between Prince giving awaya CD to the well,
you know, selling his CD,I guess, to this
newspaperand then the newspaper
(05:15):
actually distributing it.
Neither of them actuallymade money from it,
but they both had thesekind of like intangible
tick,you know, branding slash,
you know, prints,
selling more ticketsat the O2 Arena
that that
they enabled this toto be a financial venture.
If you look at the
broad scale of things,and I think that's
(05:35):
one of the problems with
musicalmusicians perhaps the
you know, the focusto tightly narrow on this
like one little thingof I've,
you know,I've got to try and
do thisand I'll be successful.
Whereas it's
it's, it's the broaderthings, you know,
travelling aroundthe world
might not help your music
in this one
particularinstance of like,
I'm not actually
(05:56):
creating music,but I can give you
exposure to all sortsof experiences,
sounds, thingswhich will enable you
to create better stufflater on.
And I think this sort ofthing is happening here
and I'm going to caveatthis,
that this all requires ayou know,
I feel like it's a rathertiny leap of faith
because measuring secondor third or other effects
(06:17):
of what they've done here
is going to be very,very hot.
You know,how how we hear that
he sold more tickets,but how much did
he actually morewould he have sold
or not have soldif he hadn't done this?
So, you know, we're doingsome kind of like,
you know, counterfactuals.
If this had not happened,what would have happened?
That sort of deal?
(06:38):
But I think in these cases
and I've got a coupleof more examples of this,
which is layering on thisthis kind of, I guess,
evidence arguments of whyyou should maybe do this.
And I think by gainingmore exposure at the,
you know,
cost of some smallpotential profits
he could have madefrom the
the the advertisersfrom the actual Daily Mail
(06:59):
itself, Prince
made a huge windfallwith the concert.
And perhaps he had bigger,bigger revenues
then in comparisonto selling suit.
Who knows? Who knows?
But this is why I advocatefor similar reasons
for podcasts as well, that
sticking your contentbehind a paywall
where it's impossibleto get to without paying
(07:20):
all being exclusive,
for example,on somewhere like,
you know,
Spotifywas trying to do this
and we've seen recently
all these podcasterswho are exclusive, they're
jump ship and wantedto be everywhere
because you're stuntinggrowth.
You'rereally hurting yourself
by narrowing your niche
to likeyou can only get it here
or you have to pay for ithere.
And the only timesI've really seen
(07:41):
this work is for
really large creators
who already have a verywell-established audience,
and I don't even thinkthey do it
for monetary reasons,
to be honest,I'm pretty sure they pay
well theircontent and put things
behindbehind stuff like that.
Not becauseit pays the most,
but for other reasons,
such as
wanting to limit their
(08:02):
their messageto a certain set of people
or to not have,
you know, feedbackfrom X number of people,
which I know for a factis what happens with a
content creatorI followed called Andre
Antonopoulos, a
Bitcoin guy
who's a Bitcoin educator
who's been doing it
for like ten years,
and he is exclusive onPatreon pretty much for
(08:25):
all of his stuffbecause he just doesn't
want to dealwith all of the,
the random noisethat he gets.
So this is why we see,okay, this is maybe
why should
give it away for freefrom the creative side,
but then let's go onto the next point,
which is, well,why pay if it's free?
And if we see creators are
willing to work for free?
(08:46):
And we'vedefinitely established
that in the last episode,why would fans pay
if they can get itfor free?
And I was
actually having a chatwith a lovely young lady
named Hannah,
who was she's doinglike an article on on
one of the placeswhere you can listen
to thisvery podcast on true fans.
You can listen to it livethere or post at Post Hoc
(09:09):
and she's doing thisarticle and she was
doing on on micropayments
and in particularon true fans.
And one of her questionswas was basically
piggyback of this
if you're
giving away this stufffor free,
why would people payfor it?
And I think this ismy answer to
this was somethingthat we learnt last week.
People do thingsfor credit status,
(09:29):
reputation, enjoyment,satisfaction
and experience.
Paying away
paying can be a way to getto all of these things,
expedite the processin getting
to some of these things.
And I think that's a very,very strong reason why
people will pay for stuff.
And now you'd be like,okay, car
And that's nice andhypothetical, but give me
(09:51):
give me an example,give me something real.
So, well,we're going to get as real
as we can get here
with this
next quote from page 253
and we'll see some peoplewho who did it.
Well.
If the video gameindustries of business
racing towards freeto accelerate its growth,
music is a businessstumbling
to freeto slow its decline.
But the early experimentsare encouraging.
(10:14):
By nowthe success of Radiohead's
name your own price
experiment with InRainbows is legendary.
Rather than release itsseventh album into stores.
As usual,
the band released itonline
with the requestthat you pay
as much or as littleas you wanted.
Some chose to pay nothing,including me,
not because I didn't think
it was worth something,but because I wanted to
(10:35):
see if that was in factallowed.
While otherspaid more than $20.
Overall,the average price was $6.
So, yeah,this is what we see.
Okay.
And this is theclassic view.
If you heard about thisbefore In Rainbows
by Radiohead
was essentially they gaveaway their music free.
They put it upon a website,
(10:56):
you could just goaccess it.
And I'd heard about thisfor ages.
If you're in the valueto value world,
you would have heardof this example.
And what's reallyinteresting about this is
if pure upfront monetarygain was the play,
they wouldn'thave actually done this.
They wouldn't have givenaway their music for free,
was they,you know, overall
(11:17):
the average price was $6.
I'm pretty sureback in those days,
you know, paying for afor an album of
something waswas much more than that.
And so telling ontoI was like I'd
heard about thisso many times
and I wasextremely intrigued
as to what actually
went into thisbecause it's it's
kind of like toosimplistic in a way.
You know, when you hear
people will bring upan example of something
(11:37):
and you're like, Yeah,yeah, okay, but is that?
And then you learnlater on like,
no, the real
the real lessonto be learned from
this is not whatit appears on the surface.
And if you look into theStanford Prison experiment
or the Milgram shockexperiments, for example,
this is where you alwayshear like,
it just showcaseshow bad humanity is.
But if you look into the
actual studiesthemselves, the science,
(11:57):
what actuallywent on there,
it was cherry picked data.
It was, you know,they were going for to
to prove out this thing
rather than doinga scientific experiment.
We won't get into that.
But essentially this waswhere I was like, okay,
I've heard of this
In Rainbows
thing by Radiohead too,so many times.
What's actuallygoing on here?
So I found this interview
and it's called Tom and Ed
(12:17):
talk about In Rainbowsrelease and it's just,
you know, it was
someone who found a randomI think it's BBC baby
C or R2,it's some sort of English
station, TV station.
And this interviewwas really illuminating.
It's onlyhe's about 7 minutes long,
but definitely worthchecking out.
And we'll have thatlink down below
(12:39):
and you'll learn a coupleof things from this.
So one,they were very careful
about their wordingon their website,
so they actually really
explained the valuefor value
philosophybefore it was even,
you know,called value for value.
Then it was pay.
What you wantis another expression,
which is kind ofinterchangeable with this.
And they were veryexplicit like, Hey,
(12:59):
this is we're doing thisthis way.
This is the reasonswe're doing for it.
We would very muchappreciate it.
We would you know,there's it's
not an expectation
you can get this for freeif you want.
And as the authorand we found of that
quote there, ChrisAnderson he he did it
and he just wanted to test
it out if he could do it.
They didthis very specifically.
(13:21):
So they're
very careful aboutthey asked that pitch.
We know how much importantthat is.
They were very careful.
They cut out middlemen,for example,
and could releasedirectly to the fans
without meetingsand without promos.
It was hilarious
watching this clip
and then them
just talking about howmuch they detest meetings.
And it's like, yes,thank you.
(13:41):
Thank you.
So the
the actual interviewitself
would have been publishedrelatively
recently after the releaseof the actual album.
Not that I'll have to goback and check that.
I'm just responding to a
a comment here
in the in the YouTubechat at the moment.
Another thing wasthey didn't have to wait 3
(14:01):
to 6 monthsto actually release it.
They could do itas soon as it was done.
And I'm sureif you're a musician,
you know, you've createdyour work of art,
you've created this piece,and then
and thenyou just have to wait
because you need approvalby this place.
You need the,
you know, marketing budgetto get approves
this to be done,this to be done.
And that would talk abouthow they would
(14:21):
finishthe album, you know,
do all the editing
lost you know
sampleschopped everything's good
this is exactly howwe want it.
And then six months,
you're just sitting on it
and just go like twiddlingtheir thumbs like,
And so they said, No,this is
why we could release itstraight away.
And the benefitof releasing it
straight away was
they didn't have to worryabout the inevitability
(14:43):
of it getting leaked.
And so by releasing itlike this,
they could actuallycontrol
the distribution mechanism
because these thingsalways get leaked.
Once you've createdsomething,
it gets leaked outsomehow.
And so they released it
for the not to be greedy,but for the spirit
of music.
And funnily enough,you know,
for the spirit of musicand doing things
(15:04):
this way actually ends up
resulting inmore of a monetary gain.
Because
if you read the book,the next page talks
about how the album wasthe most successful,
how it did so well.
This could be,
you know, adjacentto the actual pay,
what you want
for the philosophy, but
it certainly didn't hurtwhat happened.
So all of this is veryv v esque and if
(15:27):
if you go to the paywhat you want
article on on Wikipedia,
it also shows how
it's known as the valuefor money model.
And it goes
links to a blog posttalking about no agenda.
So pay what you wantvalue for value.
They're very similar.
And once again,
another example of sayinghow, okay, something's
being given away for freeand you know,
you would expectself-interest.
(15:48):
People would just,you know, pay zero
if you can get itfor free.
Why wouldwhy would you not do that?
But now we see, you know,
they actually got,you know, $6 on average,
which is pretty,pretty bold
and pretty amazingconsidering
it was one of the first
first times that they didthis.
Now, I think
(16:08):
it's worth talking aboutwhy this seems so scary.
And I just mentionedWikipedia there.
And as a as I mentioned,
I was doinga bit of research
on this album itself.
And if you go intothe Wikipedia
page of this album,
it talks about theirresponse to what they did
for this Paywhat you Want released
and they've kind of
got two sections,the first sections
talking about how peoplewere praising it.
(16:29):
You know, Bono was saying
is courageous,imaginative.
Courtney Love was saying,you know, the kamikaze
pilot of me wants to dothe same thing.
I'm grateful rainbowsRadiohead for
for making the first moveand doing this.
And then we see the other
side of it,which was the criticism.
And this isreally interesting
because a lot ofthis is really fear based.
So we've got some quotesfrom Lily Allen saying
(16:51):
the release was arrogant
and sent a bad messageto less or
less successful acts
saying you don't choosehow to pay for eggs.
Why should it be differentfor music?
Sonic Youth bassistKim Gordon said
it seemed really communitycommunity orientated,
but it was wasn't catered
towards the musician,brothers and sisters
who don't sellas many records
(17:12):
as Radiohead
makes everyone else
look bad by not offeringthem music for whatever.
And then The Guardianjournalist Will Hodgkinson
arguedthat Radiohead had made it
impossible for lesssuccessful musicians
to make a livingfrom their music.
And I think this is worthaddressing.
Like, why does this seemso scary to other people?
You know, it'snot it's not Radiohead
(17:33):
who were or theiror their fans
who were criticisingwhat they did.
It's just these like other
relatively well-knownmusicians as well.
And it'sbecause they have this
zero sum mentalityof like it's it's all
the criticisms themselveswere all about money
as well.
You noticethat, you notice how the
it was all about the moneyand it wasn't the,
(17:54):
the spirit of the music,of releasing of, of
giving it directlyto fans to have this,
you know,direct interaction,
of being able
to be in controlof your own music
and doing whatyou want with it.
None of it was addressedtowards that.
It was all aboutthis money side of things.
And I think theywere afraid of change.
And having to adaptis the is probably the,
(18:14):
the main argumentI would be saying there.
And we're going to learnfrom,
from someone as well.
And page157 teaches us about this.
So we're going to have
another couple of quoteshere.
What'sparticularly interesting
is that
the same pragmatismabout the need
for the
industry to embrace
new models is shared
(18:34):
even by the biggestwinners of the Old way.
Interviewed in 2008about the impact of file
sharing on his label,G Unit records,
the rap artist 50 Centhad the advantage
of perspectiveof also being an artist.
Sure, file tradingwas hurting his label,
but there was a larger warto be won.
The advances in technologyimpact everyone
(18:57):
and we all must adapt.
What is important
for the music industryto understand
is that this reallydoesn't hurt the artists.
A young fan
may be just as devoutand dedicated
no matter if he bought itor stole it.
The concerts are crowdedand the industry
must understandthat they have to manage
all the 360 degreesaround an artist.
They, the industry,
(19:18):
have to maximisetheir income
from concertsand merchandise.
Yeah, I think this
teaches a couple of things
on both sidesof the equation.
Thank you Mr.
50 Cent for for that quote
and for Colefor writing it out.
So the problem isthe radio guys,
Radiohead guys mentioned
is that'll get leakedone way or the other.
And you know,this was particularly
(19:40):
I supposeprevalent in 2008.
I'm not sure how
with, with file sharingand things like that.
I'm not surehow much it is nowadays.
My fingeron the pulse of the
of the music sceneis, is not super strong.
But I thinkbeing proactive,
getting ahead of thesethings is necessary.
Adaptingto change to technology
and free might scare you,
but ultimatelyyou have to work with it.
(20:02):
And a lot of thisnext season
we're goingto be looking at
particularly,you know, the book,
The Inevitable
by Kevin Kelly,which I covered
a little bit last week.
Some of this stuff isinevitable.
You know, file sharingcould not be stopped.
The distributionof of music
at a super, super lowcost is happening.
(20:23):
You know,there's a small vinyl,
you know, resurgent.
But we're not going backto the days of CDs.
We're not going back
to the days of vinylbeing everywhere.
It is digital.
It is going to be ondemand
streamingand things like this.
And I think as a musician,you have to acknowledge
that it's not worthfighting it.
It's not worth trying to,
you know, lambaste peoplefor for getting the music
(20:45):
however they want it.
As 50 Cent mentioned the
a young fanjust because he's he stole
it doesn't mean that
he doesn't love the music
or that he hates the
musicianor anything like that.
He could be justas dedicated and devout
no matter if he bought itor stole it.
That was a quote.
And I and once again,with the value for value
(21:07):
model, we can find waysto use this dedication
and and devout fansfollowings
if we are a bit creative,if we think more about
how we can actually goabout doing this
word of mouth,you know, campaigns,
just because they don'thave money doesn't mean
they don'thave things to contribute.
So this is where it
whereI definitely think that
the arguments for freeis essentially the
(21:30):
you need to do itbecause it's
going to happenno matter what.
If you try and fight the
technology andthings that allow things
to be distributedlike this, it's
ultimately goingto be a failing venture.
And so it's worth thinking
about how you can
get the message across
that even if you don't pay
in a monetary form,you can actually get paid
(21:51):
in other ways
or you can get valuein other ways from your
from your audience.
Now, this will
ultimately gets usonto the last point
I wanted totalk about here, which is
the money
is in merchant touring,so why is the money there?
And much of the pagesin between
the quotes of this bookwas really focussed
on analysing the declinein the record industry,
(22:12):
but overall growthin the music industry.
And you're like, okay,
well aren'tthey the same thing?
Record industry, musicindustry?
No, the record industrywas solely concerned
about the distributionof music,
whereas the music industryis obviously it's
just about musicas a whole.
Is music getting outand getting played
and we said yes, it was.
Is getting played in TVshows and movies.
It was working its wayinto more
(22:33):
and more genres,areas of the world,
you know,elevator music, gyms,
shopping malls,all this sort of stuff.
You know, there's musicbeing played everywhere
all the time, basically.
And now look at,
you know,TikTok and Instagram
and all these placeswhere you can just click
a button, you can puta song into it.
Okay, it's everywhere.
Now, the thing is,
(22:55):
how have musiciansmaking money?
Well, when this transitionwas happening,
all of it was basicallybeing like
because the CDS saleswere declining
because vinyl
and those sorts of thingswere declining,
you know, cassette tapes,all that sort of stuff.
The musicians were having
to do itthrough touring and,
and through much,which is,
(23:15):
you know,
to two ways
where once again, it's
kind of like
a physical product almost,you know,
I would have to physicallygo out to a venue
or I would geta, a physical shirt
or something like this
and I believethat this was probably
the waythat had to be done.
And that made sensefor musicians to
to monetise their workin some sort of way,
(23:37):
consideringthat they couldn't do it
through the recordindustry, couldn't
do it anymore,it wasn't making sense.
The technologyhad moved on and changed.
File sharing hadbasically destroyed that
and so they had to do itthrough the
through touringand through much.
I am arguing thatI think the case is now
that with micropaymentsbecoming a viable option,
(23:57):
that this is allowinga new way,
it won't completelydominate,
you know, these othertwo mechanisms.
But I think
that micropayments, it'sworth having a look at
and thinking aboutif you're a musician,
because there arecertainly many people who
don't want
or can't consumethe physical things.
(24:18):
And so let's take me,for example.
I don't particularly enjoylive music and concerts.
I've been to a couple, butit's not a regular part
of my living and livinglifestyle, I guess.
And the last one
I went to wasprobably in 2019, 2018,
maybewhen I was in Mexico,
(24:38):
I went to a big concertthere.
That was the last timeI've been to one.
I don't particularlyenjoy them.
I'm rather minimalist,
so I actually don't enjoybuying merch.
A lot of times
by desperation.
I have sometimes bought tshirts to support people.
Other podcasters,for example,
sending money to the UKvia the banking system.
(24:58):
So awful. I hated it.
I wished I wishedmy friends at that time
had accepted bitcoinbecause that would
have been so much easier.
But it's but I also liketo support artists.
I like to do these things.
So let's take one of my
favourite musiciansin a for example.
Now you know.
Yeah.
(25:18):
Create some amazing music.
I, I, I rememberbeing a kid and hearing
some of her musicand loving it
and she was alsoreally hot
and I had a crush on herand probably still do.
And you know, she's oneof my favourite musicians.
Even if I wantedto see her
live the last timeshe was in Australia,
I was looking this up,I believe was in 2018.
(25:39):
So it's like, okay, well,
you know,it's been a while
since I could havesupported her in that way.
I went on to ourwebsite just the other day
and her shop was down,
so if I wanted tobuy merch,
I couldn't have even doneit like that.
There's no donate buttonthere.
And I was
struggling to think like,okay, how can I
how could I get some moneyto her?
(26:00):
And I'm guessingthat there is a way
of still buying musicsomehow, maybe through,
I don't know, iTunes orAmazon music or something.
I don't have iTunespersonally,
I don't haveAmazon music personally,
so I would have to go
really out of my wayto to do these things.
But man, if she was Vfor V enabled,
if she had her music upas an RSS feed,
(26:20):
she and with with youknow, wallet splits
and a way for me to domicropayments to her,
she would make
bank bank of meI would be sending her
all of my money
because I would
be just
listening to itall the time
and boosting and streaming
and all thesesorts of things.
So this is where I wasgoing to just say like,
(26:42):
if you're a musician,
giving it away for free,I think it's a is a good
is a good way of thinkingabout this, doing this
of putting your music uponline.
It's up online everywhere.
You know, peopleare accessing it for free.
Now, if you want to thinkof it through Spotify,
it's a very convolutedmechanism.
I'm sure Spotifystill pays out,
(27:02):
but it's, you know,
we're getting there'sincreasing steps moving.
The technology is movingus further
and further towards
like everythingbeing available
If you are creatingcontent online.
And I just argue,you know, if you
if you haven't
thoughtabout micropayments
and you haven't thought
about getting directsupport
from your audience, it'sworth doing that.
(27:23):
I argue the best way to doit is through the
the triangle of RSS,v2 V and BTC,
as we've saw pretty muchin the last season.
But you know, it's worthjust looking elsewhere
if you're a musician
and havingto think about that.
So that is my argumentfor today.
Free, free.
Let's jump onto the
(27:45):
gremlinsand I really want to thank
some peoplefor helping support
this show from last week.
So Mr.
Adam Curry,please take it away.
Welcome to the value
for value histogram.
Yes. Sothe booster gremlins
for those who don't knowis where I think
the peoplewho help support this show
(28:07):
and in particularin the monetary aspect.
We'll talk a little bit
more about how
you can supportin a non-monetary aspect
at the end.
And this is by doinga boost to ground
which you can senddirectly
through one of a newmodern podcasting app.
There'sall sorts of reasons
outside of the valuetransfer you can do.
I go live
(28:27):
so you could be listeningto this live
the on on onone of those apps.
I put chapter images there
so that you can haveinteresting things
and you'll see stufflike spends
bitcoin gifts, whichI put in there to help
brighten upmake it more interesting.
You canget transcripts in their
notificationsas soon as the
podcast goes outin this release,
(28:49):
all these sorts of things.So good reason
to check outsome of these apps.
If you gave me a modest
podcast dotcom search support,
you'll see a listthere of where
you can actually goand find these apps.
I've done a run
through all of thesesorts of things
and you can send a messagedirectly with an app.
That message will reach me
and this is just a classicexample
of how these micropaymentswork.
(29:10):
You can stream inand you can also do it
via sending in
what is known as a boost,
which is just a one timepayment or booster.
Graham Same thing,
but you have a messageattached with that.
So I'm going to readsome of these out here
and I'm just going to dothem in sequential order
because it will lead upto the big the big one.
So we had these laughscoming in with a thousand
(29:30):
sets sent using fountain.
He says Good show.
Would loveto make your end of show
tracks one day fire. Hey,thank you, mate.
Thank you.
I am very muchin this moment of
I've got my structurefor this season,
but I will hit you upfor next season
because that sounds likea really fun way of
being able to collaborateand do something
interesting andand change it up.
So, yes,more and more on that in
(29:51):
I'll also like
six months
time, I'll get back toyou. That's probably
what I'll be doingthe next season.
We have a message herefrom Chad
and he says, Hugeshout out to what
Barry is doingfor live concerts.
I did mentionthis last week.
If you enjoyedVoice of Music
and want to help it
grow, please considerdonating some sets
sets of upto Thunder Road.
And then he's got a
(30:11):
a clapping emoji 3333 setssent using fountain.
Thank you very much,my friend.
And the link there isThunder road dot media
and then forward slashlive of what is that
the it's not colonthe square
hyphen livehyphen is hyphen lit.
I'm going to have the link
(30:32):
to that in the show notes.
I've also included themas a 5% split
to this very podcastin this very episode.
So yeah, I really lovewhat what Barry is doing
for the live musicof creating these concerts
where you can essentially
do what I'm talking about.
This is, this is whatwe're talking about.
The musicians are doingthis concert for free.
(30:53):
You could jump into
the live streamat any point and
just watch the whole thing
without having to paya single cent
or you can jump inand contribute.
So show some support likeI will be doing as well
unless I'mflying in mid-flight
to Brazil,which is possible,
I will be doing that and
it's just areally exciting avenue of
(31:16):
of I think
the future of music,of things are changing.
I did see a lot of streamscoming in here from Sam,
Sam Sethi,the founder of True Fans.
And then check this out.
Sam Sethi 100,000 sets.
Cent using true fans,
although a Bola bolaI don't have any of the
(31:38):
sound effects,but thank you very much.
So my God, thanks.
And he says,thank you so much
for your kind wordsand support.
Building an appat the bleeding
edge of tech is superhard, often rewarding,
but sometimesvery frustrating.
And once again that.
So if you're wonderinghow much So I'm
talking micropaymentsand you're like,
they're sendingthese stats.
What are theserandom things?
The equivalent of thatat current
(31:59):
prices is about 105 AUD.
So, Sam, thank you.
Thank you very much.
You know, you've paid myhosting for a half a year.
A year? I don't know.
Thank youso much for doing that.
May I really doappreciate that
and I highly recommendpeople check out true fans
because it's
it's one of these placeswhere
an app progressive web app
(32:20):
so can be used on yourdesktop, on your iPhone,
whateverphone you're on Android
and it's got allof these functionalities.
He has everythingin there.
It's a it's a sweet app.
I'm going to berecommending it more
because he's he's really
creating somethinginteresting there.
And like I said,I did a little interview
for someone
(32:40):
who was alsovery interested in it
and writingan article on it.
So I will also link thatwhen it comes out.
Chat offices in the chat.
That's me.
Thank you, Chad,very much.
Appreciate for joining usin here as well.
So let's jump on to,I suppose, some current
developments, latestdevelopments.
Things are interesting.
Like I said, Thunder RoadMedia at get al Bitcoin.
(33:03):
If you wanted to helpsupport that, live
things that are going on,
it really gives methe same vibes
as what was going onwith Able Craft
when Iwas tuning into that show
like two years ago
where it was just,you know,
so Spencerand this guy Abel Kirby,
and they were creating
basically the first music,the first album
specifically to be ableto release it in a value
(33:25):
for value format.
And that was Abeland The Wolf.
I will be playingone of their songs
in the near future,and I think this is just
it's a pillar
in what's going to besomething
that is really, really bigand be for the music.
That's why I'mtalking about it today.
I thinkit's really interesting.
Now, this is slightly offtopic from music,
but it's it's very muchon the same trend of
(33:49):
someone who was doingsomething digital
and having to adapt with
the times change,
make their money through
not exactlythe way they wanted to
and then find exactly
their niche
and how they could do itdirectly
through through their artand through their music.
And so there'sthis guy called Beeple.
If you haven't heard
of people before, he'sbasically
an artist and particularlydigital art.
(34:10):
He'll do some 3D renderingand things like this.
But mostly
it would be what you wouldimagine is a JPEG image.
And he's been doing thisfor a long, long time.
I listenedto this interview with him
and he was, you know,
creating the stuffand he was like,
okay, well,
I've put it on YouTubevideos,
but it wasn't reallygetting much traction.
I was trying to direct
people to my website, butyou know, that was hard.
(34:32):
And then he realised like,
well,
I can justput this on Facebook
and I'm just gonnaput my art there.
There was no wayto pay for it.
There was no monetaryreason. He was doing this.
He was giving it awayfor free.
What this led to wasa lot of people
becoming very interestedin what he was creating
and it ended up
turning outthat he would get
How would he makemoney from his art?
(34:53):
Well,
he would actually getthese opportunities
to work on and create forthe Super Bowl halftime
Justin Bieber concerts.
You know, the
the backgroundimages behind him
when he's on the big TV
screensand things like this
and and allof these sorts of things.
So he's indirectlymaking his his money
through the AC oneand the testing.
(35:13):
Michael Joseph Winkelmann,
professionallyknown as Beeple,
American digital artist,
graphicdesigner and animator
and this is the part knownfor selling Nfts.
You know, like an NFT iswhat the hell is up?
NFT standsfor Non-Fungible token
and basically meansthat he could sell his art
directly on the blockchainwhen the time was right.
So he was creating
(35:34):
all of this stuff,giving it away for free.
He somehow made
found a wayto make money from it,
but it was through thisvery indirect method of,
you know,getting paid for,
getting renownedand then paid for his art,
but for other people's
installationsand things like this.
It's kind of similar to,
you know, musicianscreating all this music
and then only getting paidwhen they're doing
(35:55):
concerts and sellingmerch. Interesting.
And then he found this wayof when when
Ethereum was coming upand he realised,
you can actually
put your art
as a, as a digital imageon the blockchain.
And it's like aone of one thing
and it's,it's stored there
and there's a way tomake it digitally scarce
that, okay,
(36:15):
he could now sell itdirectly to his fans
and his fansreally liked his stuff
and he ended up sellingthis piece
known as Everydays,which was a collage,
a collaboration of
of everythingthat he'd created for like
once a day, for yearsand years and years,
maybe a decade. I'mnot sure how long.
And he ended upselling this one thing
(36:36):
for like, you know, 63million or something.
So Headlines. Amazing.
I think the lessonto take away from
this is delayedgratification.
You know,he created his stuff.
He put it out therefor free.
He found a way to like,grind and make money
through alternativemethods before he found
a way to connect directlywith his audience and
(36:57):
and be able to,
you know, not only make
money from them,but connect
directly with them.
So this is an interesting
aspectof where you can see
a digital artist has donesomething similar.
Now, obviously with music
you can maybe do NFTor things like this.
I wouldn'tparticularly recommend it.
I've lookedat a lot of this stuff
for the pastcouple of years
(37:18):
and I still I think thatthe way forward is through
the the mechanisms.
I talked about
RSS because it'sself-sovereign,
it's decentralised,it's permissionless,
and you can do valuetransfer through that
and then through valuefor value
and Bitcoinon top of that.
So I think the main thing
(37:38):
to take away fromhim is definitely just
putting your, yourart out there for free.
Grow growing,creating a brand,
connectingwith your audience
will lead to opportunityis further down the line.
And then this gets into my
final section here,which funnily enough,
why Bitcoin? Why?
Why would you you know,
I just talked about ittheorem and Nfts. But why?
(37:58):
Why would I say thatIt's, it's
worth focusing on Bitcoin.
And I say Mr.
Robot in the chat,
except that anyone cancopy and paste any of it.
NFT is, it's a scam,
you know,
the same argumentcould be made for putting
music up in an RSS feed.
Anyone can copy itand and put it up.
We're not seeingthat behaviour here
(38:18):
and I think it'sultimately it's,
it's, it'skind of about this
delayed gratification.
And so, you know,
what is the ultimatedelayed gratification?
It's saving your moneyand this is where I
very much goingto stay away
from the financial advice
and I view BTC as the bestway to do that.
(38:39):
If you're new,
you're going to hear about
this thing called Hodling,which is holding on for
dear life, the acronymif you want.
Or basically
a guy got drunk andspelled holding wrong and
which is ultimatelyjust forgoing a quick win
now for something betterlater.
Once again,delayed gratification of
is what I'm arguingthat musicians should do.
(39:00):
Certainly what I'm doingwith putting
all of this stuffout for free.
I could be advertisingright now.
I choose not tobecause I think
ultimately in the end,
giving it awayfor free is better.
And I will get
I will get more laterin the end and I will feel
better about doing it.
So this is just one of
those oneswhere it's like,
I also just want tocaution
(39:21):
people are selling houses
to buy this stuffand I wouldn't
particularly recommendthat.
And I knowsomeone who is doing this
and I've known someonethree years ago,
four years agodoing the same thing.
It ultimately givesyou more options
and thereforemore freedom.
I think justjust be very careful.
Don't take itto the extremes,
because if you'relistening to this
(39:43):
for the first timeand you're like,
streaming micropayments,
Bitcoin,you can get caught up
in the investingside of things.
I think that's interestingand worth looking at.
I also just wantto advertise caution
and that if you're lookingat these things
through the micropaymentlens,
we're using it as money.
So it's not really
you shouldn't be thinking
(40:03):
of itas like an investment.
It should be looking at
as more of an incomeor things like this.
So, you know, Samsonite
in $100, I don't view thatas a as like X amount.
And Bitcoin is like, okay,
he sent me that muchthrough,
throughbitcoin and insights
and I do appreciate it,but I'm not going to hold
that particular thingfor the long, long term.
I prefer to use thatto help support
(40:25):
other people like Burberry
is doingand things like this.
So, you know,just don't do it.
Take it to the extremes,be be careful.
You know
what, makes itvaluable is the the peer
to peer transactions.
And so you'll alsoperhaps hear
never part of the Bitcoinand things like that.
But I think it's worth
supporting your favourite
artists and and helpingpeople like that.
(40:46):
So let's go onto the last section here.
I've got time,talent and treasure.
This is howyou can support the show.
So what I wouldreally love is
if you could share thiswith a digital creator.
Also come join me livelike one has, like Mr.
Robot has likeChad has like
coal has all very muchappreciated.
I love saying these
the comments downdown on the YouTube video.
(41:09):
You can also just listen
in live
on any of the podcastingapps which support it
which in particularare found in podcast
guru pod verse true fanszero cost
and not full cost money.
Yeah those oneswill do us for now.
You can also comewith some talent.
So is there anythingI can do
to make this better?What annoys you?
(41:31):
What resourcesare similar to this?
If those bookrecommendations
similar to this,which you think highlights
how the digital worldis changing
and this is changingthe way that, you know,
content creators,particularly digital ones,
interactwith their audience.
And if you have any book
similar to the inevitableby Kevin Kelly or three
(41:52):
by Chris Anderson,please send them my way.
I would love to knowthese.
And we also sawfrom DS Lofts last week,
you know,
if you want to helpcollaborate as well,
I'm downfor it and yeah I'm
we'll see if I can fit youinto for this season but
definitely for the future.
I'm looking foropportunities
to do something like that
and then try to threeoptions, do it through a
(42:13):
new podcasting app.
I just listedquite a few and do it
through directlythe podcast index website.
One of the thingswith true fans
I should mention, as soon
soon they will have
the ability toto top up your wallet with
with ApplePay or Google Pay,
which will be very,very much
a niceonboarding mechanism
because it is kind of hardto get Bitcoin
(42:34):
is SatoshisI get it, I get it.
It's confusing.
And so that just just know
all of thisis getting easier
and it's becomingmore mainstream.
So the check out that
there's also a PayPallink down below
one and I have agreedthat this will just send
this directlyto developers
working on thingsand like Sam
who's like you mentioned,it's it's a hard gig.
(42:54):
It's not it's not easy.
And so I very muchappreciate it.
If you want to help mehelp support the show,
all of the splitsI've got going,
5% is going to developersand you know, another 30
or 40%is going to call seven and
the downfallsfor helping provide music.
And speaking of music,speaking of music,
(43:15):
we're coming to
our last section here,which is we're
going to be talking about
we'll playing a song,in fact.
And you know, this this
this episode has beenfocussed on freedom free.
And the songwe actually have today
is, is Freedomby Valley Ramirez.
And she actuallyreminds me
of one of my favouriteartists who is an inner
(43:36):
voice, is very,
very, very similar.So I was like,
I have to play itfor this one.
I actually got to give a
shout out to ColeMcCormick through America.
Plus this is howI found her,
because she playedone of her songs there and
it's really interestingseeing how artists are
creating andfinding ways to not only,
(43:57):
you know, talk about and
create the art themselves,but express
it showcasewhy they were doing it.
She's actually
got a podcastabout her songs,
which is really,really cool.
So I and I speak Spanishrelatively well so
and can understand it.So I went into it.
And so this song isabout risking everything.
And I and I think this isa perfect timing
(44:17):
for this episode.
You know,
it's worthtaking that risk, worth
taking that gamble,
putting your music outfor free.
For her,
the riskingeverything was leaving
Colombiafor the first time,
leaving her comfort zoneand trying something new.
And, you know, this is whythis song is just a one.
It's it's a great song.I love it.
But I think it's also
(44:38):
fits in nicelywith this theme.
So this is Valle Ramirez,I believe her Colorado co
artist is Dave.
And in general, whichmeans Dave, the engineer.
And she'sgoing to take us away.
And thank you very muchfor joining me
live, 10 a.m.
Australian EasternStandard
Time on a Thursdayis where I am
sorry, on a monday.
(44:58):
That's that's a bookreview is when to go live
on a Thursday.
And I really hopeyou join me for next week.
Please send in a boost.
And if you send in a boostnow, you're going
to be helpingsupport Valley.
So here we go.
MotherOmalu, Omalu, Omalu.
Are you.
Watching
(45:19):
that? I
want a damn black.
Cause I.
Think that the fight onozone was kind.
Of anger and misled us
and did a littlethat did them with.
Football again.
(45:41):
On Shut You know, SS three
four SS
At Boston College,
where I see them,you seen them in
the AFL
battlewith Gary Salo three
(46:04):
He thought this
and w they complained
And Sullivan
astronomy professor
Douglas Sally, Mr.
McKillop saidthey know and.
(46:41):
He hasn't.
Done the opposite of that
all I knowbut I'm supporter
that they'll be offered.
Hockey cigars and I'dbe able to see a guest.
Appearing peeling.
You'll be at MelodyLove here at a red
(47:01):
light and
seen in recitals
and I've never ended upon this LSD.
Recital Wonderful time.
I still love you slightly,
(47:23):
Dr. Santelli.
What? I mean
is certainly strong.
So then
I must
say no,
(47:48):
I have.
What does the musicindustry have to teach us
about giving away musicfor free?
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Welcome everyone
(00:20):
to another episode of theValue for Value Podcast
broadcasting live hereon the 18th of March 2024.
This is the podcast
for Digital Contentcreators
who want to connect deeper
with their audience,perhaps
look at some differentways of monetising.
Although you might bewondering like monetising
and you're talking about
giving away stufffor free,
(00:40):
how does that work?
Well, we'regoing to dive into that
in this episode today.
So we'regoing to be learning
from the bookFree by Chris Anderson.
I have previously donea book review of this
on the main
models, book reviews,
if you wanted to dive intothe full book of that.
But we're going to befocusing in particular
from about pages
153 to 161, and we've gotsome juicy quotes
(01:01):
from from Cole coming upto help explain that.
So what we're going tolearn in particular
is a marketing slashgrowth tactic,
if you want to put itthat way.
Some counterintuitivebehaviour
that you'll see
from your audienceand your friends,
and alsohow to face the feel, the.
Feel. Of free.
So let's just jump
right into thisand why make it free?
(01:22):
Why should you makeyour music free?
If you are a musician,
you're putting stuff outthere.
Doesn'tthat that sounds weird.
Why would you do that?
Now this is linkeddirectly to the next point
that I'm going to make,
which is opposing it,
coming at itfrom the fan side
of thingsand why they would pay.
But we'll start here.
We'll start from the
creative side first,because this is the,
you know,
the Value for Valuepodcast,
(01:43):
mostly directed at peoplewho are
trying to understandif you're a creator,
why you would do this.
You've got to do thisfirst,
and then you can get the
value backfrom your audience.
Now, the reason to offer
your creation for freeis that wide
interest in your product
will ultimately ultimatelyallow you to
to make more money offof it.
Or perhaps even freedom
is the better wayto to categorise this. And
(02:06):
then once you havefreedom, you can choose to
make moneyhowever you want.
You know,
essentially,once you get to
a high enough levelas a musician
and I'm goingto be focusing
just on musicians today,but these
these apply broadly toother types of creators.
But we'll focus onthe musician niche.
You can dowhatever the hell you want
once, onceyou've got freedom, once
you've got enough money,it's like now
(02:28):
you just get to choosewhat you choose to create,
how you go about doing it,and trying
to find the most exciting,interesting ways.
And you might be thinking,okay, well, I'm not the
you know,I'm not Kanye, I'm not ye
I'm not at this
the high enough levelwhere I can just do
whatever the hellyou want.
Well,
I think a lot of the valuefor value
concepts will allow you
(02:48):
to get to that levelif you want.
If you're aimingfor stardom,
if you're aimingfor things like this.
And it's essentiallythe acknowledgement,
I think
if you're givingsomething away for free
that you could makea small gain.
Now if you were tojust keep it locked in
and like,here's a price on it,
I want to create this
and I want some immediategratification from that.
(03:10):
But it's going to reallystunt your growth.
Or you can have,
you know, none of the
upfront payments,but you have
much larger in the future.
Once you have grown, once
you can do whateverthe hell you want.
So we're goingto start off
with a quote from page 155here of the book.
And we're going to learnhow Prince did something
a little bitcounterintuitive of
(03:31):
not only just giving his
his music away for free,but actually paying
to give it away.
So Cole will take us awayhere.
How can a music CDB free?
In July 2007,Prince debuted his new
album Planet Earthby stuffing a copy
retail value $19
into 2.8 millionissues of the Sunday
edition of London'sDaily Mail.
(03:53):
The paperoften includes a CD,
but this wasthe first time
it featured all newmaterial from a star.
How can a platinum artistgive away a new release?
And how could a newspaper
distribute itfor Free of charge?
Prince spurred ticketsales.
Strictly speaking,
the artistlost money on the deal.
He charged the Daily Mail
a licensing fee of $0.36
(04:13):
a disc ratherthan his customary $2.
But he more than made up
the difference in ticketsales.
The purple one sold out21 shows at London's O2
Arena in August,bringing him
record concertrevenue for the region.
The Daily Mail boostedits brand.
The freebie bumped upthe newspaper's
circulation 20% that day.
(04:33):
That broughtin extra revenue,
but not enough to coverexpenses.
Still, Daily Mail execsconsider the giveaway
a success.
Managing editor Stephen
Miron says the gimmickworked
editoriallyand financially.
Because we're pioneers,advertisers want
to be with us.
Carl will love that.
That'sexactly how I imagined,
(04:54):
thoughit would sound as well.
So it's interestingto note with this
this kind of explanation,with this deal
that happened, thatneither party
actually made moneyout of this
in terms of the strictfinancial dealings
between Prince giving awaya CD to the well,
you know, selling his CD,I guess, to this
newspaperand then the newspaper
(05:15):
actually distributing it.
Neither of them actuallymade money from it,
but they both had thesekind of like intangible
tick,you know, branding slash,
you know, prints,
selling more ticketsat the O2 Arena
that that
they enabled this toto be a financial venture.
If you look at the
broad scale of things,and I think that's
(05:35):
one of the problems with
musicalmusicians perhaps the
you know, the focusto tightly narrow on this
like one little thingof I've,
you know,I've got to try and
do thisand I'll be successful.
Whereas it's
it's, it's the broaderthings, you know,
travelling aroundthe world
might not help your music
in this one
particularinstance of like,
I'm not actually
(05:56):
creating music,but I can give you
exposure to all sortsof experiences,
sounds, thingswhich will enable you
to create better stufflater on.
And I think this sort ofthing is happening here
and I'm going to caveatthis,
that this all requires ayou know,
I feel like it's a rathertiny leap of faith
because measuring secondor third or other effects
(06:17):
of what they've done here
is going to be very,very hot.
You know,how how we hear that
he sold more tickets,but how much did
he actually morewould he have sold
or not have soldif he hadn't done this?
So, you know, we're doingsome kind of like,
you know, counterfactuals.
If this had not happened,what would have happened?
That sort of deal?
(06:38):
But I think in these cases
and I've got a coupleof more examples of this,
which is layering on thisthis kind of, I guess,
evidence arguments of whyyou should maybe do this.
And I think by gainingmore exposure at the,
you know,
cost of some smallpotential profits
he could have madefrom the
the the advertisersfrom the actual Daily Mail
(06:59):
itself, Prince
made a huge windfallwith the concert.
And perhaps he had bigger,bigger revenues
then in comparisonto selling suit.
Who knows? Who knows?
But this is why I advocatefor similar reasons
for podcasts as well, that
sticking your contentbehind a paywall
where it's impossibleto get to without paying
(07:20):
all being exclusive,
for example,on somewhere like,
you know,
Spotifywas trying to do this
and we've seen recently
all these podcasterswho are exclusive, they're
jump ship and wantedto be everywhere
because you're stuntinggrowth.
You'rereally hurting yourself
by narrowing your niche
to likeyou can only get it here
or you have to pay for ithere.
And the only timesI've really seen
(07:41):
this work is for
really large creators
who already have a verywell-established audience,
and I don't even thinkthey do it
for monetary reasons,
to be honest,I'm pretty sure they pay
well theircontent and put things
behindbehind stuff like that.
Not becauseit pays the most,
but for other reasons,
such as
wanting to limit their
(08:02):
their messageto a certain set of people
or to not have,
you know, feedbackfrom X number of people,
which I know for a factis what happens with a
content creatorI followed called Andre
Antonopoulos, a
Bitcoin guy
who's a Bitcoin educator
who's been doing it
for like ten years,
and he is exclusive onPatreon pretty much for
(08:25):
all of his stuffbecause he just doesn't
want to dealwith all of the,
the random noisethat he gets.
So this is why we see,okay, this is maybe
why should
give it away for freefrom the creative side,
but then let's go onto the next point,
which is, well,why pay if it's free?
And if we see creators are
willing to work for free?
(08:46):
And we'vedefinitely established
that in the last episode,why would fans pay
if they can get itfor free?
And I was
actually having a chatwith a lovely young lady
named Hannah,
who was she's doinglike an article on on
one of the placeswhere you can listen
to thisvery podcast on true fans.
You can listen to it livethere or post at Post Hoc
(09:09):
and she's doing thisarticle and she was
doing on on micropayments
and in particularon true fans.
And one of her questionswas was basically
piggyback of this
if you're
giving away this stufffor free,
why would people payfor it?
And I think this ismy answer to
this was somethingthat we learnt last week.
People do thingsfor credit status,
(09:29):
reputation, enjoyment,satisfaction
and experience.
Paying away
paying can be a way to getto all of these things,
expedite the processin getting
to some of these things.
And I think that's a very,very strong reason why
people will pay for stuff.
And now you'd be like,okay, car
And that's nice andhypothetical, but give me
(09:51):
give me an example,give me something real.
So, well,we're going to get as real
as we can get here
with this
next quote from page 253
and we'll see some peoplewho who did it.
Well.
If the video gameindustries of business
racing towards freeto accelerate its growth,
music is a businessstumbling
to freeto slow its decline.
But the early experimentsare encouraging.
(10:14):
By nowthe success of Radiohead's
name your own price
experiment with InRainbows is legendary.
Rather than release itsseventh album into stores.
As usual,
the band released itonline
with the requestthat you pay
as much or as littleas you wanted.
Some chose to pay nothing,including me,
not because I didn't think
it was worth something,but because I wanted to
(10:35):
see if that was in factallowed.
While otherspaid more than $20.
Overall,the average price was $6.
So, yeah,this is what we see.
Okay.
And this is theclassic view.
If you heard about thisbefore In Rainbows
by Radiohead
was essentially they gaveaway their music free.
They put it upon a website,
(10:56):
you could just goaccess it.
And I'd heard about thisfor ages.
If you're in the valueto value world,
you would have heardof this example.
And what's reallyinteresting about this is
if pure upfront monetarygain was the play,
they wouldn'thave actually done this.
They wouldn't have givenaway their music for free,
was they,you know, overall
(11:17):
the average price was $6.
I'm pretty sureback in those days,
you know, paying for afor an album of
something waswas much more than that.
And so telling ontoI was like I'd
heard about thisso many times
and I wasextremely intrigued
as to what actually
went into thisbecause it's it's
kind of like toosimplistic in a way.
You know, when you hear
people will bring upan example of something
(11:37):
and you're like, Yeah,yeah, okay, but is that?
And then you learnlater on like,
no, the real
the real lessonto be learned from
this is not whatit appears on the surface.
And if you look into theStanford Prison experiment
or the Milgram shockexperiments, for example,
this is where you alwayshear like,
it just showcaseshow bad humanity is.
But if you look into the
actual studiesthemselves, the science,
(11:57):
what actuallywent on there,
it was cherry picked data.
It was, you know,they were going for to
to prove out this thing
rather than doinga scientific experiment.
We won't get into that.
But essentially this waswhere I was like, okay,
I've heard of this
In Rainbows
thing by Radiohead too,so many times.
What's actuallygoing on here?
So I found this interview
and it's called Tom and Ed
(12:17):
talk about In Rainbowsrelease and it's just,
you know, it was
someone who found a randomI think it's BBC baby
C or R2,it's some sort of English
station, TV station.
And this interviewwas really illuminating.
It's onlyhe's about 7 minutes long,
but definitely worthchecking out.
And we'll have thatlink down below
(12:39):
and you'll learn a coupleof things from this.
So one,they were very careful
about their wordingon their website,
so they actually really
explained the valuefor value
philosophybefore it was even,
you know,called value for value.
Then it was pay.
What you wantis another expression,
which is kind ofinterchangeable with this.
And they were veryexplicit like, Hey,
(12:59):
this is we're doing thisthis way.
This is the reasonswe're doing for it.
We would very muchappreciate it.
We would you know,there's it's
not an expectation
you can get this for freeif you want.
And as the authorand we found of that
quote there, ChrisAnderson he he did it
and he just wanted to test
it out if he could do it.
They didthis very specifically.
(13:21):
So they're
very careful aboutthey asked that pitch.
We know how much importantthat is.
They were very careful.
They cut out middlemen,for example,
and could releasedirectly to the fans
without meetingsand without promos.
It was hilarious
watching this clip
and then them
just talking about howmuch they detest meetings.
And it's like, yes,thank you.
(13:41):
Thank you.
So the
the actual interviewitself
would have been publishedrelatively
recently after the releaseof the actual album.
Not that I'll have to goback and check that.
I'm just responding to a
a comment here
in the in the YouTubechat at the moment.
Another thing wasthey didn't have to wait 3
(14:01):
to 6 monthsto actually release it.
They could do itas soon as it was done.
And I'm sureif you're a musician,
you know, you've createdyour work of art,
you've created this piece,and then
and thenyou just have to wait
because you need approvalby this place.
You need the,
you know, marketing budgetto get approves
this to be done,this to be done.
And that would talk abouthow they would
(14:21):
finishthe album, you know,
do all the editing
lost you know
sampleschopped everything's good
this is exactly howwe want it.
And then six months,
you're just sitting on it
and just go like twiddlingtheir thumbs like,
And so they said, No,this is
why we could release itstraight away.
And the benefitof releasing it
straight away was
they didn't have to worryabout the inevitability
(14:43):
of it getting leaked.
And so by releasing itlike this,
they could actuallycontrol
the distribution mechanism
because these thingsalways get leaked.
Once you've createdsomething,
it gets leaked outsomehow.
And so they released it
for the not to be greedy,but for the spirit
of music.
And funnily enough,you know,
for the spirit of musicand doing things
(15:04):
this way actually ends up
resulting inmore of a monetary gain.
Because
if you read the book,the next page talks
about how the album wasthe most successful,
how it did so well.
This could be,
you know, adjacentto the actual pay,
what you want
for the philosophy, but
it certainly didn't hurtwhat happened.
So all of this is veryv v esque and if
(15:27):
if you go to the paywhat you want
article on on Wikipedia,
it also shows how
it's known as the valuefor money model.
And it goes
links to a blog posttalking about no agenda.
So pay what you wantvalue for value.
They're very similar.
And once again,
another example of sayinghow, okay, something's
being given away for freeand you know,
you would expectself-interest.
(15:48):
People would just,you know, pay zero
if you can get itfor free.
Why wouldwhy would you not do that?
But now we see, you know,
they actually got,you know, $6 on average,
which is pretty,pretty bold
and pretty amazingconsidering
it was one of the first
first times that they didthis.
Now, I think
(16:08):
it's worth talking aboutwhy this seems so scary.
And I just mentionedWikipedia there.
And as a as I mentioned,
I was doinga bit of research
on this album itself.
And if you go intothe Wikipedia
page of this album,
it talks about theirresponse to what they did
for this Paywhat you Want released
and they've kind of
got two sections,the first sections
talking about how peoplewere praising it.
(16:29):
You know, Bono was saying
is courageous,imaginative.
Courtney Love was saying,you know, the kamikaze
pilot of me wants to dothe same thing.
I'm grateful rainbowsRadiohead for
for making the first moveand doing this.
And then we see the other
side of it,which was the criticism.
And this isreally interesting
because a lot ofthis is really fear based.
So we've got some quotesfrom Lily Allen saying
(16:51):
the release was arrogant
and sent a bad messageto less or
less successful acts
saying you don't choosehow to pay for eggs.
Why should it be differentfor music?
Sonic Youth bassistKim Gordon said
it seemed really communitycommunity orientated,
but it was wasn't catered
towards the musician,brothers and sisters
who don't sellas many records
(17:12):
as Radiohead
makes everyone else
look bad by not offeringthem music for whatever.
And then The Guardianjournalist Will Hodgkinson
arguedthat Radiohead had made it
impossible for lesssuccessful musicians
to make a livingfrom their music.
And I think this is worthaddressing.
Like, why does this seemso scary to other people?
You know, it'snot it's not Radiohead
(17:33):
who were or theiror their fans
who were criticisingwhat they did.
It's just these like other
relatively well-knownmusicians as well.
And it'sbecause they have this
zero sum mentalityof like it's it's all
the criticisms themselveswere all about money
as well.
You noticethat, you notice how the
it was all about the moneyand it wasn't the,
(17:54):
the spirit of the music,of releasing of, of
giving it directlyto fans to have this,
you know,direct interaction,
of being able
to be in controlof your own music
and doing whatyou want with it.
None of it was addressedtowards that.
It was all aboutthis money side of things.
And I think theywere afraid of change.
And having to adaptis the is probably the,
(18:14):
the main argumentI would be saying there.
And we're going to learnfrom,
from someone as well.
And page157 teaches us about this.
So we're going to have
another couple of quoteshere.
What'sparticularly interesting
is that
the same pragmatismabout the need
for the
industry to embrace
new models is shared
(18:34):
even by the biggestwinners of the Old way.
Interviewed in 2008about the impact of file
sharing on his label,G Unit records,
the rap artist 50 Centhad the advantage
of perspectiveof also being an artist.
Sure, file tradingwas hurting his label,
but there was a larger warto be won.
The advances in technologyimpact everyone
(18:57):
and we all must adapt.
What is important
for the music industryto understand
is that this reallydoesn't hurt the artists.
A young fan
may be just as devoutand dedicated
no matter if he bought itor stole it.
The concerts are crowdedand the industry
must understandthat they have to manage
all the 360 degreesaround an artist.
They, the industry,
(19:18):
have to maximisetheir income
from concertsand merchandise.
Yeah, I think this
teaches a couple of things
on both sidesof the equation.
Thank you Mr.
50 Cent for for that quote
and for Colefor writing it out.
So the problem isthe radio guys,
Radiohead guys mentioned
is that'll get leakedone way or the other.
And you know,this was particularly
(19:40):
I supposeprevalent in 2008.
I'm not sure how
with, with file sharingand things like that.
I'm not surehow much it is nowadays.
My fingeron the pulse of the
of the music sceneis, is not super strong.
But I thinkbeing proactive,
getting ahead of thesethings is necessary.
Adaptingto change to technology
and free might scare you,
but ultimatelyyou have to work with it.
(20:02):
And a lot of thisnext season
we're goingto be looking at
particularly,you know, the book,
The Inevitable
by Kevin Kelly,which I covered
a little bit last week.
Some of this stuff isinevitable.
You know, file sharingcould not be stopped.
The distributionof of music
at a super, super lowcost is happening.
(20:23):
You know,there's a small vinyl,
you know, resurgent.
But we're not going backto the days of CDs.
We're not going back
to the days of vinylbeing everywhere.
It is digital.
It is going to be ondemand
streamingand things like this.
And I think as a musician,you have to acknowledge
that it's not worthfighting it.
It's not worth trying to,
you know, lambaste peoplefor for getting the music
(20:45):
however they want it.
As 50 Cent mentioned the
a young fanjust because he's he stole
it doesn't mean that
he doesn't love the music
or that he hates the
musicianor anything like that.
He could be justas dedicated and devout
no matter if he bought itor stole it.
That was a quote.
And I and once again,with the value for value
(21:07):
model, we can find waysto use this dedication
and and devout fansfollowings
if we are a bit creative,if we think more about
how we can actually goabout doing this
word of mouth,you know, campaigns,
just because they don'thave money doesn't mean
they don'thave things to contribute.
So this is where it
whereI definitely think that
the arguments for freeis essentially the
(21:30):
you need to do itbecause it's
going to happenno matter what.
If you try and fight the
technology andthings that allow things
to be distributedlike this, it's
ultimately goingto be a failing venture.
And so it's worth thinking
about how you can
get the message across
that even if you don't pay
in a monetary form,you can actually get paid
(21:51):
in other ways
or you can get valuein other ways from your
from your audience.
Now, this will
ultimately gets usonto the last point
I wanted totalk about here, which is
the money
is in merchant touring,so why is the money there?
And much of the pagesin between
the quotes of this bookwas really focussed
on analysing the declinein the record industry,
(22:12):
but overall growthin the music industry.
And you're like, okay,
well aren'tthey the same thing?
Record industry, musicindustry?
No, the record industrywas solely concerned
about the distributionof music,
whereas the music industryis obviously it's
just about musicas a whole.
Is music getting outand getting played
and we said yes, it was.
Is getting played in TVshows and movies.
It was working its wayinto more
(22:33):
and more genres,areas of the world,
you know,elevator music, gyms,
shopping malls,all this sort of stuff.
You know, there's musicbeing played everywhere
all the time, basically.
And now look at,
you know,TikTok and Instagram
and all these placeswhere you can just click
a button, you can puta song into it.
Okay, it's everywhere.
Now, the thing is,
(22:55):
how have musiciansmaking money?
Well, when this transitionwas happening,
all of it was basicallybeing like
because the CDS saleswere declining
because vinyl
and those sorts of thingswere declining,
you know, cassette tapes,all that sort of stuff.
The musicians were having
to do itthrough touring and,
and through much,which is,
(23:15):
you know,
to two ways
where once again, it's
kind of like
a physical product almost,you know,
I would have to physicallygo out to a venue
or I would geta, a physical shirt
or something like this
and I believethat this was probably
the waythat had to be done.
And that made sensefor musicians to
to monetise their workin some sort of way,
(23:37):
consideringthat they couldn't do it
through the recordindustry, couldn't
do it anymore,it wasn't making sense.
The technologyhad moved on and changed.
File sharing hadbasically destroyed that
and so they had to do itthrough the
through touringand through much.
I am arguing thatI think the case is now
that with micropaymentsbecoming a viable option,
(23:57):
that this is allowinga new way,
it won't completelydominate,
you know, these othertwo mechanisms.
But I think
that micropayments, it'sworth having a look at
and thinking aboutif you're a musician,
because there arecertainly many people who
don't want
or can't consumethe physical things.
(24:18):
And so let's take me,for example.
I don't particularly enjoylive music and concerts.
I've been to a couple, butit's not a regular part
of my living and livinglifestyle, I guess.
And the last one
I went to wasprobably in 2019, 2018,
maybewhen I was in Mexico,
(24:38):
I went to a big concertthere.
That was the last timeI've been to one.
I don't particularlyenjoy them.
I'm rather minimalist,
so I actually don't enjoybuying merch.
A lot of times
by desperation.
I have sometimes bought tshirts to support people.
Other podcasters,for example,
sending money to the UKvia the banking system.
(24:58):
So awful. I hated it.
I wished I wishedmy friends at that time
had accepted bitcoinbecause that would
have been so much easier.
But it's but I also liketo support artists.
I like to do these things.
So let's take one of my
favourite musiciansin a for example.
Now you know.
Yeah.
(25:18):
Create some amazing music.
I, I, I rememberbeing a kid and hearing
some of her musicand loving it
and she was alsoreally hot
and I had a crush on herand probably still do.
And you know, she's oneof my favourite musicians.
Even if I wantedto see her
live the last timeshe was in Australia,
I was looking this up,I believe was in 2018.
(25:39):
So it's like, okay, well,
you know,it's been a while
since I could havesupported her in that way.
I went on to ourwebsite just the other day
and her shop was down,
so if I wanted tobuy merch,
I couldn't have even doneit like that.
There's no donate buttonthere.
And I was
struggling to think like,okay, how can I
how could I get some moneyto her?
(26:00):
And I'm guessingthat there is a way
of still buying musicsomehow, maybe through,
I don't know, iTunes orAmazon music or something.
I don't have iTunespersonally,
I don't haveAmazon music personally,
so I would have to go
really out of my wayto to do these things.
But man, if she was Vfor V enabled,
if she had her music upas an RSS feed,
(26:20):
she and with with youknow, wallet splits
and a way for me to domicropayments to her,
she would make
bank bank of meI would be sending her
all of my money
because I would
be just
listening to itall the time
and boosting and streaming
and all thesesorts of things.
So this is where I wasgoing to just say like,
(26:42):
if you're a musician,
giving it away for free,I think it's a is a good
is a good way of thinkingabout this, doing this
of putting your music uponline.
It's up online everywhere.
You know, peopleare accessing it for free.
Now, if you want to thinkof it through Spotify,
it's a very convolutedmechanism.
I'm sure Spotifystill pays out,
(27:02):
but it's, you know,
we're getting there'sincreasing steps moving.
The technology is movingus further
and further towards
like everythingbeing available
If you are creatingcontent online.
And I just argue,you know, if you
if you haven't
thoughtabout micropayments
and you haven't thought
about getting directsupport
from your audience, it'sworth doing that.
(27:23):
I argue the best way to doit is through the
the triangle of RSS,v2 V and BTC,
as we've saw pretty muchin the last season.
But you know, it's worthjust looking elsewhere
if you're a musician
and havingto think about that.
So that is my argumentfor today.
Free, free.
Let's jump onto the
(27:45):
gremlinsand I really want to thank
some peoplefor helping support
this show from last week.
So Mr.
Adam Curry,please take it away.
Welcome to the value
for value histogram.
Yes. Sothe booster gremlins
for those who don't knowis where I think
the peoplewho help support this show
(28:07):
and in particularin the monetary aspect.
We'll talk a little bit
more about how
you can supportin a non-monetary aspect
at the end.
And this is by doinga boost to ground
which you can senddirectly
through one of a newmodern podcasting app.
There'sall sorts of reasons
outside of the valuetransfer you can do.
I go live
(28:27):
so you could be listeningto this live
the on on onone of those apps.
I put chapter images there
so that you can haveinteresting things
and you'll see stufflike spends
bitcoin gifts, whichI put in there to help
brighten upmake it more interesting.
You canget transcripts in their
notificationsas soon as the
podcast goes outin this release,
(28:49):
all these sorts of things.So good reason
to check outsome of these apps.
If you gave me a modest
podcast dotcom search support,
you'll see a listthere of where
you can actually goand find these apps.
I've done a run
through all of thesesorts of things
and you can send a messagedirectly with an app.
That message will reach me
and this is just a classicexample
of how these micropaymentswork.
(29:10):
You can stream inand you can also do it
via sending in
what is known as a boost,
which is just a one timepayment or booster.
Graham Same thing,
but you have a messageattached with that.
So I'm going to readsome of these out here
and I'm just going to dothem in sequential order
because it will lead upto the big the big one.
So we had these laughscoming in with a thousand
(29:30):
sets sent using fountain.
He says Good show.
Would loveto make your end of show
tracks one day fire. Hey,thank you, mate.
Thank you.
I am very muchin this moment of
I've got my structurefor this season,
but I will hit you upfor next season
because that sounds likea really fun way of
being able to collaborateand do something
interesting andand change it up.
So, yes,more and more on that in
(29:51):
I'll also like
six months
time, I'll get back toyou. That's probably
what I'll be doingthe next season.
We have a message herefrom Chad
and he says, Hugeshout out to what
Barry is doingfor live concerts.
I did mentionthis last week.
If you enjoyedVoice of Music
and want to help it
grow, please considerdonating some sets
sets of upto Thunder Road.
And then he's got a
(30:11):
a clapping emoji 3333 setssent using fountain.
Thank you very much,my friend.
And the link there isThunder road dot media
and then forward slashlive of what is that
the it's not colonthe square
hyphen livehyphen is hyphen lit.
I'm going to have the link
(30:32):
to that in the show notes.
I've also included themas a 5% split
to this very podcastin this very episode.
So yeah, I really lovewhat what Barry is doing
for the live musicof creating these concerts
where you can essentially
do what I'm talking about.
This is, this is whatwe're talking about.
The musicians are doingthis concert for free.
(30:53):
You could jump into
the live streamat any point and
just watch the whole thing
without having to paya single cent
or you can jump inand contribute.
So show some support likeI will be doing as well
unless I'mflying in mid-flight
to Brazil,which is possible,
I will be doing that and
it's just areally exciting avenue of
(31:16):
of I think
the future of music,of things are changing.
I did see a lot of streamscoming in here from Sam,
Sam Sethi,the founder of True Fans.
And then check this out.
Sam Sethi 100,000 sets.
Cent using true fans,
although a Bola bolaI don't have any of the
(31:38):
sound effects,but thank you very much.
So my God, thanks.
And he says,thank you so much
for your kind wordsand support.
Building an appat the bleeding
edge of tech is superhard, often rewarding,
but sometimesvery frustrating.
And once again that.
So if you're wonderinghow much So I'm
talking micropaymentsand you're like,
they're sendingthese stats.
What are theserandom things?
The equivalent of thatat current
(31:59):
prices is about 105 AUD.
So, Sam, thank you.
Thank you very much.
You know, you've paid myhosting for a half a year.
A year? I don't know.
Thank youso much for doing that.
May I really doappreciate that
and I highly recommendpeople check out true fans
because it's
it's one of these placeswhere
an app progressive web app
(32:20):
so can be used on yourdesktop, on your iPhone,
whateverphone you're on Android
and it's got allof these functionalities.
He has everythingin there.
It's a it's a sweet app.
I'm going to berecommending it more
because he's he's really
creating somethinginteresting there.
And like I said,I did a little interview
for someone
(32:40):
who was alsovery interested in it
and writingan article on it.
So I will also link thatwhen it comes out.
Chat offices in the chat.
That's me.
Thank you, Chad,very much.
Appreciate for joining usin here as well.
So let's jump on to,I suppose, some current
developments, latestdevelopments.
Things are interesting.
Like I said, Thunder RoadMedia at get al Bitcoin.
(33:03):
If you wanted to helpsupport that, live
things that are going on,
it really gives methe same vibes
as what was going onwith Able Craft
when Iwas tuning into that show
like two years ago
where it was just,you know,
so Spencerand this guy Abel Kirby,
and they were creating
basically the first music,the first album
specifically to be ableto release it in a value
(33:25):
for value format.
And that was Abeland The Wolf.
I will be playingone of their songs
in the near future,and I think this is just
it's a pillar
in what's going to besomething
that is really, really bigand be for the music.
That's why I'mtalking about it today.
I thinkit's really interesting.
Now, this is slightly offtopic from music,
but it's it's very muchon the same trend of
(33:49):
someone who was doingsomething digital
and having to adapt with
the times change,
make their money through
not exactlythe way they wanted to
and then find exactly
their niche
and how they could do itdirectly
through through their artand through their music.
And so there'sthis guy called Beeple.
If you haven't heard
of people before, he'sbasically
an artist and particularlydigital art.
(34:10):
He'll do some 3D renderingand things like this.
But mostly
it would be what you wouldimagine is a JPEG image.
And he's been doing thisfor a long, long time.
I listenedto this interview with him
and he was, you know,
creating the stuffand he was like,
okay, well,
I've put it on YouTubevideos,
but it wasn't reallygetting much traction.
I was trying to direct
people to my website, butyou know, that was hard.
(34:32):
And then he realised like,
well,
I can justput this on Facebook
and I'm just gonnaput my art there.
There was no wayto pay for it.
There was no monetaryreason. He was doing this.
He was giving it awayfor free.
What this led to wasa lot of people
becoming very interestedin what he was creating
and it ended up
turning outthat he would get
How would he makemoney from his art?
(34:53):
Well,
he would actually getthese opportunities
to work on and create forthe Super Bowl halftime
Justin Bieber concerts.
You know, the
the backgroundimages behind him
when he's on the big TV
screensand things like this
and and allof these sorts of things.
So he's indirectlymaking his his money
through the AC oneand the testing.
(35:13):
Michael Joseph Winkelmann,
professionallyknown as Beeple,
American digital artist,
graphicdesigner and animator
and this is the part knownfor selling Nfts.
You know, like an NFT iswhat the hell is up?
NFT standsfor Non-Fungible token
and basically meansthat he could sell his art
directly on the blockchainwhen the time was right.
So he was creating
(35:34):
all of this stuff,giving it away for free.
He somehow made
found a wayto make money from it,
but it was through thisvery indirect method of,
you know,getting paid for,
getting renownedand then paid for his art,
but for other people's
installationsand things like this.
It's kind of similar to,
you know, musicianscreating all this music
and then only getting paidwhen they're doing
(35:55):
concerts and sellingmerch. Interesting.
And then he found this wayof when when
Ethereum was coming upand he realised,
you can actually
put your art
as a, as a digital imageon the blockchain.
And it's like aone of one thing
and it's,it's stored there
and there's a way tomake it digitally scarce
that, okay,
(36:15):
he could now sell itdirectly to his fans
and his fansreally liked his stuff
and he ended up sellingthis piece
known as Everydays,which was a collage,
a collaboration of
of everythingthat he'd created for like
once a day, for yearsand years and years,
maybe a decade. I'mnot sure how long.
And he ended upselling this one thing
(36:36):
for like, you know, 63million or something.
So Headlines. Amazing.
I think the lessonto take away from
this is delayedgratification.
You know,he created his stuff.
He put it out therefor free.
He found a way to like,grind and make money
through alternativemethods before he found
a way to connect directlywith his audience and
(36:57):
and be able to,
you know, not only make
money from them,but connect
directly with them.
So this is an interesting
aspectof where you can see
a digital artist has donesomething similar.
Now, obviously with music
you can maybe do NFTor things like this.
I wouldn'tparticularly recommend it.
I've lookedat a lot of this stuff
for the pastcouple of years
(37:18):
and I still I think thatthe way forward is through
the the mechanisms.
I talked about
RSS because it'sself-sovereign,
it's decentralised,it's permissionless,
and you can do valuetransfer through that
and then through valuefor value
and Bitcoinon top of that.
So I think the main thing
(37:38):
to take away fromhim is definitely just
putting your, yourart out there for free.
Grow growing,creating a brand,
connectingwith your audience
will lead to opportunityis further down the line.
And then this gets into my
final section here,which funnily enough,
why Bitcoin? Why?
Why would you you know,
I just talked about ittheorem and Nfts. But why?
(37:58):
Why would I say thatIt's, it's
worth focusing on Bitcoin.
And I say Mr.
Robot in the chat,
except that anyone cancopy and paste any of it.
NFT is, it's a scam,
you know,
the same argumentcould be made for putting
music up in an RSS feed.
Anyone can copy itand and put it up.
We're not seeingthat behaviour here
(38:18):
and I think it'sultimately it's,
it's, it'skind of about this
delayed gratification.
And so, you know,
what is the ultimatedelayed gratification?
It's saving your moneyand this is where I
very much goingto stay away
from the financial advice
and I view BTC as the bestway to do that.
(38:39):
If you're new,
you're going to hear about
this thing called Hodling,which is holding on for
dear life, the acronymif you want.
Or basically
a guy got drunk andspelled holding wrong and
which is ultimatelyjust forgoing a quick win
now for something betterlater.
Once again,delayed gratification of
is what I'm arguingthat musicians should do.
(39:00):
Certainly what I'm doingwith putting
all of this stuffout for free.
I could be advertisingright now.
I choose not tobecause I think
ultimately in the end,
giving it awayfor free is better.
And I will get
I will get more laterin the end and I will feel
better about doing it.
So this is just one of
those oneswhere it's like,
I also just want tocaution
(39:21):
people are selling houses
to buy this stuffand I wouldn't
particularly recommendthat.
And I knowsomeone who is doing this
and I've known someonethree years ago,
four years agodoing the same thing.
It ultimately givesyou more options
and thereforemore freedom.
I think justjust be very careful.
Don't take itto the extremes,
because if you'relistening to this
(39:43):
for the first timeand you're like,
streaming micropayments,
Bitcoin,you can get caught up
in the investingside of things.
I think that's interestingand worth looking at.
I also just wantto advertise caution
and that if you're lookingat these things
through the micropaymentlens,
we're using it as money.
So it's not really
you shouldn't be thinking
(40:03):
of itas like an investment.
It should be looking at
as more of an incomeor things like this.
So, you know, Samsonite
in $100, I don't view thatas a as like X amount.
And Bitcoin is like, okay,
he sent me that muchthrough,
throughbitcoin and insights
and I do appreciate it,but I'm not going to hold
that particular thingfor the long, long term.
I prefer to use thatto help support
(40:25):
other people like Burberry
is doingand things like this.
So, you know,just don't do it.
Take it to the extremes,be be careful.
You know
what, makes itvaluable is the the peer
to peer transactions.
And so you'll alsoperhaps hear
never part of the Bitcoinand things like that.
But I think it's worth
supporting your favourite
artists and and helpingpeople like that.
(40:46):
So let's go onto the last section here.
I've got time,talent and treasure.
This is howyou can support the show.
So what I wouldreally love is
if you could share thiswith a digital creator.
Also come join me livelike one has, like Mr.
Robot has likeChad has like
coal has all very muchappreciated.
I love saying these
the comments downdown on the YouTube video.
(41:09):
You can also just listen
in live
on any of the podcastingapps which support it
which in particularare found in podcast
guru pod verse true fanszero cost
and not full cost money.
Yeah those oneswill do us for now.
You can also comewith some talent.
So is there anythingI can do
to make this better?What annoys you?
(41:31):
What resourcesare similar to this?
If those bookrecommendations
similar to this,which you think highlights
how the digital worldis changing
and this is changingthe way that, you know,
content creators,particularly digital ones,
interactwith their audience.
And if you have any book
similar to the inevitableby Kevin Kelly or three
(41:52):
by Chris Anderson,please send them my way.
I would love to knowthese.
And we also sawfrom DS Lofts last week,
you know,
if you want to helpcollaborate as well,
I'm downfor it and yeah I'm
we'll see if I can fit youinto for this season but
definitely for the future.
I'm looking foropportunities
to do something like that
and then try to threeoptions, do it through a
(42:13):
new podcasting app.
I just listedquite a few and do it
through directlythe podcast index website.
One of the thingswith true fans
I should mention, as soon
soon they will have
the ability toto top up your wallet with
with ApplePay or Google Pay,
which will be very,very much
a niceonboarding mechanism
because it is kind of hardto get Bitcoin
(42:34):
is SatoshisI get it, I get it.
It's confusing.
And so that just just know
all of thisis getting easier
and it's becomingmore mainstream.
So the check out that
there's also a PayPallink down below
one and I have agreedthat this will just send
this directlyto developers
working on thingsand like Sam
who's like you mentioned,it's it's a hard gig.
(42:54):
It's not it's not easy.
And so I very muchappreciate it.
If you want to help mehelp support the show,
all of the splitsI've got going,
5% is going to developersand you know, another 30
or 40%is going to call seven and
the downfallsfor helping provide music.
And speaking of music,speaking of music,
(43:15):
we're coming to
our last section here,which is we're
going to be talking about
we'll playing a song,in fact.
And you know, this this
this episode has beenfocussed on freedom free.
And the songwe actually have today
is, is Freedomby Valley Ramirez.
And she actuallyreminds me
of one of my favouriteartists who is an inner
(43:36):
voice, is very,
very, very similar.So I was like,
I have to play itfor this one.
I actually got to give a
shout out to ColeMcCormick through America.
Plus this is howI found her,
because she playedone of her songs there and
it's really interestingseeing how artists are
creating andfinding ways to not only,
(43:57):
you know, talk about and
create the art themselves,but express
it showcasewhy they were doing it.
She's actually
got a podcastabout her songs,
which is really,really cool.
So I and I speak Spanishrelatively well so
and can understand it.So I went into it.
And so this song isabout risking everything.
And I and I think this isa perfect timing
(44:17):
for this episode.
You know,
it's worthtaking that risk, worth
taking that gamble,
putting your music outfor free.
For her,
the riskingeverything was leaving
Colombiafor the first time,
leaving her comfort zoneand trying something new.
And, you know, this is whythis song is just a one.
It's it's a great song.I love it.
But I think it's also
(44:38):
fits in nicelywith this theme.
So this is Valle Ramirez,I believe her Colorado co
artist is Dave.
And in general, whichmeans Dave, the engineer.
And she'sgoing to take us away.
And thank you very muchfor joining me
live, 10 a.m.
Australian EasternStandard
Time on a Thursdayis where I am
sorry, on a monday.
(44:58):
That's that's a bookreview is when to go live
on a Thursday.
And I really hopeyou join me for next week.
Please send in a boost.
And if you send in a boostnow, you're going
to be helpingsupport Valley.
So here we go.
MotherOmalu, Omalu, Omalu.
Are you.
Watching
(45:19):
that? I
want a damn black.
Cause I.
Think that the fight onozone was kind.
Of anger and misled us
and did a littlethat did them with.
Football again.
(45:41):
On Shut You know, SS three
four SS
At Boston College,
where I see them,you seen them in
the AFL
battlewith Gary Salo three
(46:04):
He thought this
and w they complained
And Sullivan
astronomy professor
Douglas Sally, Mr.
McKillop saidthey know and.
(46:41):
He hasn't.
Done the opposite of that
all I knowbut I'm supporter
that they'll be offered.
Hockey cigars and I'dbe able to see a guest.
Appearing peeling.
You'll be at MelodyLove here at a red
(47:01):
light and
seen in recitals
and I've never ended upon this LSD.
Recital Wonderful time.
I still love you slightly,
(47:23):
Dr. Santelli.
What? I mean
is certainly strong.
So then
I must
say no,
(47:48):
I have.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.