August 1, 2023 • 46 mins
Is this the first example of micropayments actually working on the internet? In Ep#43 we're going to examine the Value tag and how this enables streaming of money within your podcasting app.
Huge thanks to Cole McCormick (America+), McIntosh (Generation Bitcoin) & Gene Bean (Volunteer Technologist) for supporting the show. Absolute legends!
15% of this episode is going to Dave Jones for helping to create all this amazing infrastructure so don't forget to stream some sats!
Value 4 Value Support:
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Huge thanks to Cole McCormick (America+), McIntosh (Generation Bitcoin) & Gene Bean (Volunteer Technologist) for supporting the show. Absolute legends!
15% of this episode is going to Dave Jones for helping to create all this amazing infrastructure so don't forget to stream some sats!
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyrin Down (00:00):
Micropayments actually work!
Welcome everyone
to episode 43 of the Valuefor Value podcast.
My name is Kyrin, hostof the Mere Mortals Podcasts
and also this one.
And this is the show
for digital contentcreators
who want to connectmore deeply
(00:21):
with their audienceand also be able to learn
and earna living at the same time.
Man, Got to get that out.
I want to justreiterate here
that I am liveon a Wednesday 10 a.m.
at UTC plus ten,
which is the equivalentof the boundary between
a Tuesday, Wednesday,midnight at UTC zero.
So easy way of thinking.
This is wherever you arein the world,
(00:42):
if you're in a plus zone,
just add on thoseplus hours onto that
Tuesday midnight.
Or if you're in the minuszone, take it away
and you'll knowexactly where you are.
And if you canlisten live to it.
I would really appreciateyou joining in as well.
Let's dive straight intothe topic for this week.
So I've got a fairfew things to talk about.
And this is all aboutmicropayments.
(01:03):
So in the pastcouple of episodes,
we have really been
focusing on the podcaststhemselves.
We're looking at lit,
we're lookingat the four properties.
What is podcast emergenceof podcasting 2.0.
And Ikind of promised, okay,
this is what's going to beone of the things
that has emergedfrom podcasting 2.0
and this is the value tag,
and I want to explain
(01:24):
how this workswith the RSS feed.
And we're goingto really be
focusingon the micropayment
aspect of itfor for this time.
So first of all, I hope
we all knowwhat an RSS feed is.
This is where your podcastis is kind of hosted.
I guess this is thedirections for podcasting
apps to be able to see,okay,
this is where the audiofiles are located.
(01:46):
This is the descriptions.
They want a real source of
informationand how to display
what it is
that you'retrying to display in a,
you know, mostly an audioformat for podcasting.
But blogs use RSS as well.
And we'll we'll touch uponthat in a little bit
of a later section.
So what the value tag is,is it's essentially a
(02:09):
a way for youto put in a wallet
and for people to pay
you directlywithout permission,
without any stringsattached.
And we're talkingabout the permissionless
aspect of of Bitcoin andof the RSS and podcasting.
So what this doesis it's really cool
because you can justput something in.
(02:29):
It's there in your feed.
You don't have to
be changing it
for all of the differentcurrencies
and bankaccounts of the world.
Now, there's reallyno way to do this
in podcastingbefore podcasting
2.0 came alongand allowed this.
So in this casewe are using
mostlythe Lightning Network,
but once again,there's some abilities to
(02:50):
change things up.
And what people can do
is they can sendin micropayments to you.
So for every minute,
every bit that they willlistening to you,
they can continuouslystream some money.
So one of the coolthings about this is
you have the abilityto create splits.
And so what I can doand what I do do is put in
(03:11):
multipledifferent levels of splits
for everyonewho I think is deserving
and helpingof creating this podcast.
So now for meyou might say, Okay.
Kyrin, but you'rejust an individual.
You can just put in oneand that'll be fine.
But I actually wantto help out other people
who make this all happen.
My co-host, Juan,who I run the mere mortals
with, not on this show,but on my my main show.
(03:34):
I guess
I like to include a joint
walletthat we have as a split
because the microphonesthat I'm using,
the room,the sound panels,
all the stuff thatI've got going on here,
he helped to pay for
a large portion of thator half of it. Exactly.
So I want to include himon part of it.
I want to include a extraperson, as I do weekly
(03:57):
for for 15%who I think is really
helped me out this weekor is helping out the
the kind of ecosystemI want to include the apps
which give me serviceswhich really help me
and you will see this forthis particular podcast.
I've got one calledSatoshis Stream.
I've talkedabout them before
and they are really greatfor data collection
and for being able tosurface boosts and be able
(04:19):
to connect to the discordand all of these things,
which I just wouldn'tbe able to do myself.
So whenyou are creating a podcast
or when you're creating
a piece of artworkor a music, you know,
if you're in a band,
there's probably goingto be a minimum
three or four people.
And all of those people,if you are trying to
(04:41):
monetise that,there's there's
no real easy way to do it.
You need complicatedlegal contracts.
You need,
you know,
so many interestindustries
have these
non-productive middlemenwho are there
kind of solelyto provide trust.
I feel inthe best of cases
or who are restrictcontrol
while also charging youfor it as well.
And I thinkthe music industry
(05:02):
seems to be rifewith this.
I haven't had a firsthandexperience myself,
so I'm not a musician,
but I know peoplewho are musicians and
and they say thatthe process of trying to
put your music on Spotifyor on Bandcamp
or a large portionof these places,
it just gets chewed out.
(05:22):
You know, they charge
high, high feesand what ends up happening
is if you get 100,000streams on Spotify,
a big number
in the
podcasting equivalent,you would get $20 per per
thousand.
So that'd be $2,000
if you justdid standard advertising.
If you do that on Spotify,
you're not getting twogrants.
(05:42):
You're getting, you know,a couple of dollars,
maybe $20, maybemaybe 100, who knows?
But it's significantly,significantly less.
So I think one of the coolthings that really is
about this value tagand being able to put a
a way for people to payyou directly within your
your RSS feed
is that it just cuts outso much of the kind
(06:05):
of bullshitand it can be done
on a peer to peer basis.
The peoplewho want to pay,
you know, that it'sgoing directly to you.
And this is really coolbecause this is basically
basically micropayments
and I am a slightly tooyoung to know
the full historyof the Internet.
I was born in 1992,so I was coming up,
(06:28):
I guesswith it in the 2000,
but it seemedthat micropayments were
this kind of golden thing.
Everyone wanted to do it
like, wouldn'tthis be amazing to do?
And this would createbetter incentives for
for everyoneyou would need it.
It just seems likesomething
that would solvea lot of problems,
but it was neveractually implemented.
And I was listeningto Adam Curry
(06:49):
not too long agoand he was saying,
Yeah, you know,
this probably thismight be the first time
micropaymentshas actually been done
and is actually working.
So very,very cool for that.
The other thingI mentioned was
everyonegets a piece of the pie
that the podcastapp developers hosts
if they want to get inon this blueberry,
for example,you can use their,
(07:10):
their functionalityin on their dashboard
and they just ask for,I believe it's a
4% or 5% split.
You can
put in
collaborators,you can put in
additional servicesfor statistics,
you can put in charities.
I mean, hell,
you can even put in
the listener back into itif you want.
So what this does
is it really one enablesa lot of optionality
(07:32):
and I think it alignsa lot of incentives
and it can cut outa lot of the kind of
I won't say bullshit,but I think just a lot of
we all know
people who have a jobwhere they have
a ridiculous amountof time for that,
for that work,
and they kind of only work2 hours, 3 hours a day.
(07:52):
I think
if you can eliminate
a lot of that chaffin the system,
it makes for a betterworld.
Now, let's get on to,I guess, the streaming
aspect of this.
So streaming sets
and this isthe main use case
we see nowin podcasting 2.0,
and we can see this across
a varietyof of different apps.
And so this how this worksis generally it's
(08:15):
calculatedin one minute intervals,
thoughnot necessarily sent
being in one minuteintervals.
So batching occurs.
So if you go into the appsitself,
you wouldtypically see down
at the bottomof the screen
it'll say ator have a a little counter
or a little circle
near the play button or
off to the side of thator something like that.
(08:37):
And you can chooseas the listener
how much
that you want to stream in
to your favouritepodcaster.
For me, myself,I like the $0.21
per minute because that'show many bitcoin
there are going to be.
It's just a kind ofsymbolic number.
And even afterlistening to this,
I might change thatbecause I've
got some stats on here on
(08:57):
how muchthat is actually worth.
Once again,the micropayment aspect
is kind of highlightingthe micro ness of it.
It's this is intendedto be smallish amounts,
but you know,
small can differfrom for different people.
If a billionaire
was listeninginto the podcast
and they were streamingin, you know,
2100 sets per minute,
(09:19):
that would still berelatively small
for them in comparison
to tomy perception of wealth.
So we have this, thisaspect here,
unlike subscriptionsor paywalls,
you're only payingfor what you actually use.
This is why
micropayments are so
cool and can helpa lot of other systems
which are in place.
(09:39):
And you might say, okay.
CORIN But there's there's
other waysyou can do this.
You could do thisthrough the patron model.
And this is getting moreto the
the value for value aspect
and getting closerto the heart of that,
which is I providevalue for you upfront,
and then you provide itback to me in
whatever numberand way that you want.
Okay, Well,this is beautiful
for two different reasons.
One, you get to choosethe value
(10:01):
that you sendback to me, i.e.
you get to choose how many
satoshis per minuteyou want to send to me,
and it stops as soonas you stop listening,
which is in contrastto something like Patreon
where you have to just payand it just goes
automatically and you've
kind of paid for a month,I guess.
So this is really gettingto that aspect
(10:21):
wherewhat if I only want to get
two weeks worth of valueout of this?
What if I only want to
listen to the show
just to kind of test
it out and see, doI actually like this show?
And so I'm goingto jump on to here
onto the GitHubfor the podcast namespace.
And Dave Jonescreated this thing,
a little captionhere called Play to Pay,
whichI think is really cool
(10:42):
because it explains itquite nicely.
So I'm just goingto read this out.
This,
this dong can be thought
of as play to pay rather
than the traditional payto play pay wall approach.
When a media listener
such aswithin a podcasting app
presses the play buttonon an episode
whose feed containsa value block,
a compatible appwill be expected
to begin streamingmicropayments
(11:02):
to the designatedrecipients
on a time interval
that makes sensefor the app.
So it actually doesn'teven need
to bein these minute intervals
and I'll get on tothat soon.
The amount of each paymentcan be any amount
the listenerchooses, including zero.
If the list
of the listener chooses
not to pay to listento this media,
then the app can ignorethe value block
of that feed
(11:23):
and thenit goes down a little bit.
Low payment intervals,the time interval
for calculating paymentsis always one minute.
However,the actual interval
between when paymentsare sent can be longer.
The intervalshould be chosen
with a few factors
in mind,such as connectivity.
Is the appcurrently online
transaction fees
batched payments togetherto reduce fee percentage
cryptocurrency networkload can be given crypto
(11:46):
network or APIsupport this payment.
Right?
So there'sa couple of things
related to that therewhich were were
pretty much what I washighlighting.
This does fit the valuefor value model
more closelythan something
that takesa paywall approach
and it's accessiblefor people
who are just coming inand who are just
(12:08):
a little bit uncertain.
Do I actually like thiscontent or not?
And maybe
when you're coming infor this
first time,
you could havethe default a zero
because you'relistening to a show and
you only want to send itwhen you
when you think it'sit's worthy of sending.
Now, whatI actually really
like about this as wellis that it's rather
passiveand doesn't actually
(12:28):
require active decisionmaking to be made
whilealso allowing the listener
to determine the amount.
So this is classicV for V,
and I think it'sthis passive part
which is really
interesting and intriguing
because when we lookat the value
for value modelthat is being done on
something like No Agenda,for example,
it does requirea kind of bigger effort
(12:51):
on an individual's part.
Now what they typically doon that show
with this is AdamCurry and John C Dvorak is
they've done this largelythrough PayPal,
and PayPal is good enoughfor one instance
and this is being able
to set uprecurring payments.
And so you can havejust this thing
(13:12):
which will go every monthand go, bam, you know,
do I want to send thisto the show?
Well,it doesn't even ask you
if you just set it up.
It will justautomatically do it
as long as you have
enough moneyin your PayPal wallet
or maybe even your bankaccount.
And PayPal can can workstraight from there.
I'm not actually sureI don't
use PayPal that often.
(13:33):
And this is once
again getting closerto the value for value.
But the more passiveaspect of it, which is
I don't you know,
if I was tryingto decide each
and every single time that
I listen to a podcast,you know,
how much is this worth?
How much do I want to pay?
Is this is this showbetter than this
(13:54):
other show?
Should I send themthis much? It's too much.
It is too much overload.
Whereas with this system,
once again, you can justchoose a number.
And I've chosen
my number
and I might
change a different numberin the future.
But once I've chosen that,every show
that I listen to fromthen on, it's
just a constantstream and going in.
I'm not having
to make
(14:14):
these active decisions
and the moreactive decision.
So something like BoosterGrams,
which I'll save for the next episode and number 44.
So getting on to
another aspect of this,which is
I think it's relativelysimple on the surface,
the micropayment aspect,
I want to choose an amountof money to go to my
(14:36):
favourite artist
or content creatoras I'm listening,
and as soon as I stoplistening,
I want it to stop.
I think that's prettysimple.
I get to choosehow much I want
and I can justkind of maintain this
for as long as I want.
Now the complex thingis more
on the application side,
and this is morejust of interest
(14:58):
perhaps for for people,which is there's so many
different various waysthat this could all
that they have tomake decisions.
So this is the application, the podcast app that is
tuned, that is
receivingthese micropayments
and then passing them on
or enabling this,I should say.
So for example,
(15:19):
if someone is listeningto a show and they want to
and they end up sending545 so they listen for,
you know, X amount of time
at let's makethis even easier,
they have the streamingset set at 54 per minute
and they listenfor 100 minutes.
So that's an hour and 40minutes worth of content.
(15:42):
They will have sent 540.
But okay, the the amountthat is actually going
to individual peoplein the in the value block.
So this is in the actualRSS feed.
How's that going to getdivvied up?
It's pretty easy
if there's just onein there
or 540will go to that person
(16:03):
and to thatthat that wallet.
But what if there'stwo of them?
Okay, well,I guess you could
maybe have it as 270going to each.
Okay.
What if there's four ofthem in the equal splits?
Okay. Well, I guess 135.
But you can kind ofsee how this could get
into a pointwhere it's like
if you have 100 differentpeople all getting 1%,
(16:25):
well, you can'tdivide 40 into 100.
So like
withouthaving micro portions.
So at some point
they're going to haveto make
some decisions of going,okay, well,
this person is too low.
So we're just goingto send
a rough amount of setsto these other people.
Another case would belistening at 1.25 speed.
(16:47):
What does the person
who is streaming itin, do they expect this
to be
for the actual minutesof the show
or the actual minutes
of how longthey're listening,
which will be shorter
because they're listeningat a faster speed?
Or if you do the oppositeversion
at 0.75 speed, whatwhat about in that case?
You can also have mistakes
in the podcast aside
(17:07):
where you might not havethings adding up to 100%
and might add up to99% or 101
and we see thisrelatively often,
How do we do?
We then dividethat have to
do more recalculations,Then there's fees as well,
which are
probably somethingI want to just touch
(17:27):
upon becauseI heard someone
on anothershow, a listener
being worried about the
the fees that arecurrently occurring
and the app developersare smart and they make
a lot of decisionsand they have
to make these choices.
And they
these are individual onesthat they decide to.
In this case,
most of themare pretty smart
and so they will say,okay,
(17:50):
the actual sending throughon the minute
basis is kind of hardand it's going to rack up
some fees.
And so what they will
typically do is they'llbatch these payments. Now,
I was chatting withsome of them on the
Mastodon instance,and that was
the kind of various thingssaying from,
(18:10):
you know,
every 3 minutesthey will send
in a batched payment.
I think some of themwere slightly
a bit larger than that,
but almost certainly theydo it as it's occurring.
And so they're not justwaiting
until you've finishedlistening to an episode
and then sending itall in one big chunk,
which I thinkcould be done as well.
I don't seeany problems with that.
(18:32):
But allof this is just, you know,
they're going to haveto make their own choices.
And so
if you're as a listener,you know,
a bit
concerned about this,just know that it's
incredibly complex.
And so a lot is happeningin this case
now that was a sectionhere which I just want
to touch upon,which was all of this
(18:53):
at the momentis based on lightning,
but you could even hear itin that section.
I was sayingwith Dave Jones
that he had cryptocurrency network load
and so
I'm just goingto jump down here
to the namespace again.
And this is where it says
Support currenciesand protocols.
The value blockis designed
to be flexible enough
to handle mostor any cryptocurrency
(19:14):
and even fiat currencieswith a given API
that exposes a compatibleprocess.
Currently,development is centred
mostly on lightning,
so this is the layertwo of bitcoin
using the key
and method
keys and allows for pushbased payments
without the recipientneeding
to generate an invoiceto receive them.
Another another methodto send spontaneous
(19:35):
paymentsvia lightning is amp
atomic multiple payments
which supersedes key
and in many waysin last form
robust and largerpayments.
However,it is still in beta
and thus not widelyimplemented.
As of now.
So we can definitely say,okay,
this isn't even related
to a bitcoin thing,this can be anything.
(19:56):
As he mentioned, itcould be done with fiat.
So this is,
you know,
actual US dollarsor Australian dollars
or Canadian dollarsor Argentinean
pesos or Colombian pesos.
But not
much of it isactually done through that
becauseit's incredibly complex.
This could have
you know, we'vewe've had the ability
to do this forfor a large while,
(20:17):
but it actually no one'sactually implemented it.
It's morethrough the digital money
like Bitcoin where it it
it makes a lot more senseand it's actually doable.
It can cross geographicboundaries and there's no
and not as many laws
and restrictionsand regulations
related to the sending ofmoney like there is was.
(20:40):
If you wanted to
send micropayments
to your favouriteIranian podcaster
and your US based,I think that is going
to be pretty impossiblefrom what I know.
From what I gather,
how what we actually haveseen is that there is
room for more.
So you can actually do
this on the hiveblockchain.
I wanted to give a small
(21:01):
shout out to themand this is because,
you know,
one of the developersthere, Brian of London, he
made an active,
difficult choicepretty much on his own
to help implementthis into podcasting.
And we saw thiswith podcasting,
which is also usingthe Hive blockchain.
So it does allow forother people to come in.
(21:23):
This isn't just
a Bitcoin thing,it's a micropayment thing.
Actually sending money,actually sending value.
So that being said,it is mostly done
on the Lightning Network,which some Bitcoin and
I kind of avoidedor tried to avoid
highlightingthat it's a Bitcoin thing
and because I thinkit can extend beyond that,
(21:45):
but it is very much
centred uponthat at the moment.
And I would just say that
I find Andreasand Antonopoulos
to bea really great resource.
If you want to know moreabout what that is,
he's probably the personI've learnt the most about
regarding Bitcoinas a whole
and then the LightningNetwork as well
because is very tech basedbut explains it in
(22:07):
pretty simple and clearmanners.
He's got a book called
Masteringthe Lightning Network,
which I have yetto read myself,
but it's a very technicalbased book,
but I've heardgood things about it
and I've listenedto a lot of his podcast,
so I would justrecommend that.
So just getting onto the summary
aspect, I suppose, of this
directpeer to peer micropayments
(22:28):
enable flexibility whilst
being a passive activityfor the listener consumer.
I think this could beapplied outside of
podcasting as well.
I'm pretty sure there are
examples of peoplewho have set this up in
some sort of feedor reader
that you useon the internet
where for every, let's sayfor a blog, as you're
(22:52):
reading,the blog goes down,
you know,for each page scroll
that you do, or perhapsfor each paragraph
where you go fromone to the next,
that is when you,your browser or whatever
it is, willautomatically send
in a micropayment toto the recipient of that.
It's very muchthe same thing.
The podcasting versionobviously is audio and is
done on a minute basis,
(23:14):
i.e. youknow, I've listened
to this many
minutes of a podcast,
but you can do thisfor text as in, you know,
I'm going
to send in a micropaymentfor this much of a text
that I've read, you know,this many paragraphs.
So I think this can applyoutside of just audio
(23:34):
and video as well.
No reasonthis can't be done
with minutes of a videothat you've consumed.
So I think this isstarting to
go outto a broader example
and you actuallycan do this with video.
For example,
if you go on to
any of the
three speak feeds
which show up in podcastapps which support
the video version.
So once again, going backto what is a podcast,
(23:57):
typically it's an MP3,but you can have the video
podcast version ofthat, which is an MP four
and you can do this
if youactually want to do this,
you can type
in Miyamoto's podcast
without any spacesin between that
and you will see a feedthat I set up
a long time agoon three Speak,
which has some clipsthat I've created,
(24:18):
and these clips are muchlower quality.
I think I put them in 720p
and tried to make them
relatively short as well,but you can send
micropaymentsto that as well.
So this does workfor video.
So it's not justa podcasting thing.
Micropaymentsare actually working
for, I thinkfor the first time,
as far as I'm aware,on the on the Internet
and it's going to be very,very cool.
(24:40):
No system is perfect.
So if you are concernedabout this,
I would just say
maybe don't
use super big amountsbecause it is
it can be hard to knowexactly how much has gone
through to youryour favourite podcaster.
But I just want to say soif you
have a set at ten sitesper minute,
(25:04):
which is equal to 600an hour,
if you're listeningto an hour of content
and then 600 setsat today's prices,
that's about $0.12in Australian dollars,
which would probably be
about $0.10 $0.09 in USdollars.
That's not a whole lot forfor an hour's
worth of enjoymentthat you got.
(25:25):
I assumeif you're listening
to something for an hour,you would get
you know, you're onlypaying $0.10 for that.
But let's say
you do that forthe equivalent across a
let's say you're
listening to 10 hoursof podcasts a week.
You know, that'sthat's about a dollar.
You know, is that
is that somethingthat you can afford
(25:46):
a dollar a week for forlistening to to content.
Sure sure.
That's awesome.
And then the micropaymentsagain
it matters very little onan individual
if someone sends me $0.10.
So it's not going tochange my life.
But if 10,000 peoplesent me $0.10, okay,
well, that's that's $1,000that actually makes
(26:07):
and makes a difference.
So you can kind of
see where this canactually add up in the
large scale of things.
And so you can actuallyhave be supported as
and as an artist,
as a digital contentcreator,
whatever you wantto label yourself as,
by a lot of peoplesending you a little bit
amount of money,
This is kind of the dreamof crowdsourcing, right?
(26:29):
Being ableto do something like this.
Now, typicallythis changes because
even in crowdsourcingmodels, it's
usually a you havethis kind of power laws.
The the aspect of thatwill be a couple of people
who will donate
the largest amountsand kind of,
you know,
the 20% of people willsend in 80% of the value
(26:52):
or the sourcing for that.
That's probablyalways going to happen.
That seems to be a naturallaw of the universe.
It happens in galaxiesand stars and matter and
and light and all of thissort of thing.
So where I wouldn't
try and fightagainst that too heavily,
but I justthink this is really cool
and you can so if you've
(27:13):
been listening to this,this show
will probably go for45 minutes.
You know,
if you send in
what I typically do ofof 21 sets a minute,
you know, that's onlygoing to be about $0.15,
something like that.
So it's it's
not it's not crazy,crazy amounts of money.
I think hybrid models
usingthis will probably come
(27:34):
into the future,which will probably
trend slightly awayfrom pure value
for valuein its purest form.
But I think a probably
an enhancement of whatwe typically see nowadays.
So for thosewho are just wondering,
how does your Spotifytypical Spotify money
actually get divvied up?
(27:54):
So they're it's about220 million.
I think SpotifyPremium members
each paying,let's just say $9 of $9
a month of that$9 a month.
Where does that moneyactually go?
Well, a lot of it
goes into the royalty feesfor for music.
A lot of that
will go to the top artistsand so they will get.
(28:17):
So even if you're notlistening
to the Taylor Swift's
the Justin Bieber'sof the World,
and you are focussedsolely on a niche like me,
who listens to this onecalled free flow flava.
And it's kind of aJapanese is unhip.
No, not hip hop, Japanese
techno, drum'n'basssort of music
which I usefor my workouts.
I love listening to that.
(28:39):
They'rea much, much smaller
band and even if I listento them only exclusively,
my money wouldn'tgo to them.
It would goto someone else.
So I think there'sprobably going
to be some hybrid modelsin the future
where it willhave this aspect of, okay,
if I spend $9 a month
and I listen to theseten different artists,
(29:00):
it will do itbased more on
who the artistI'm actually listening to.
But I think this value forvalue the micropayment,
think of it actually
going to themin that time,
in that real timeaspect has a
it has a qualityto it, a uniqueness.
Every morningI've got a telegram chat
and a telegram bot set up
which lets me knowreal time
(29:22):
when people are sending mein micropayments.
And it is super,super cool because at any,
any given momentI can just check it
and it's like,Oh yeah, it's coming in.
So I can actually even say
there is someonelistening to me right now
who is streamingin some micropayments.
I see value for valuethree total payments,
$0.45, threetotal payments, $0.45.
(29:43):
And this is in the last5 minutes of ten, 13,
1022, ten, 27So whoever that is
that's listening in,Thank you very much.
I verymuch appreciate that.
So very, very cool.
I love it.I love this sort of thing.
So, yeah, I think justyes, I'm going it all up.
Micropaymentsare going to pay a large
(30:04):
a larger portion ofof being able to support
people on the Internet.
I think incentive creates
some really interestingincentives.
It enables
people to be
a lot more flexible
with howthey use their money
and how it getsdivvied up.
And I think it will create
some realbig efficiencies of
allowing usto not need to go through
(30:25):
restricted parties
or orgoing through platforms
which are there kind
to only only there forthe aspect of of trust.
So yeah,
I think it's
it's really cooland definitely something
that you should be
looking out forand not discounting
a large portionof podcasting 2.0
(30:45):
and of getting podcastersonto the system
is emphasisingthis boost aspect.
Like wow, a boost comes inand it can be super big.
But I think in
one of the coolest thingsis that unnamed?
Well, it'snot even unnamed.
You can't seepeople's names,
but it is kind of that
supportwhich maybe might not get
recognisedas as clearly and cleanly.
(31:07):
I am startingto do for the
just meremortals as a whole
for for tax purposesand things like this.
I'm startingto keep a monthly,
I suppose you'dcall it a budget or just
just keeping track of, ofhow much is, is coming in
and being able tothen be able
to report this tothe Australian Tax Office.
(31:30):
And what I can see here
is for July of 2023,
I have let'ssee how many sets come in.
So that was about across
the various showsthat I've got going on.
I had about 336,000
and of that amountthere was
a 51,000 of that was viapeople just streaming in.
(31:55):
So that's what 161 seventhof the total amount.
And that is justa really cool thing
to to have come in.
So it's
I would actually even lovefor that to be larger
in the future.
Um, and yetso it's just very cool,
very cool on that aspectand I think it's going
to, to changea lot of things.
(32:17):
I am now going to get intothe Boosta
Gram Lounge
and I'm going to actually
thank some peoplewho have been
supporting the show.
So takeit away. Mr. Adam Curry
Adam Curry (32:29):
Welcome to the value for value.
Boostagram Lounge,
Kyrin Down (32:36):
and boosta
Gramsfor those who don't know,
is a payment, a messagethat has been sent through
one of these apps directlyto the the wallets
the, the addressthat I put in my RSS feed.
So this is different to athe micro streaming
because you it now itenables people to actually
give some feedback as wellsome a comment a
(32:59):
a message that comesdirectly to me so
this can be very,
very beneficialin many ways
because I get some contentfor the show
and I get to actually
directly thank the peoplewho have been
helping to support.
So let's kick it offwith the first.
Yeah.
So this is from ColeMcCormick,
the host of the AmericaPlus, and he says,
(33:20):
I understand the riskwith advertising models,
but I'm leaning towardsusing and
experimenting with themrather than demonise.
Twitterseems like an opportunity
that's different
from YouTubeor Instagram influencer
or YouTuberor Instagram influencer.
Maybe I'mmoving to the bad light.
Someone help me
and then he sendsin his favourite number
5492 sats sentusing fountain.
(33:41):
So this is just inreference to not even sure
I talked about it,particularly
on this showwhere I was saying
with Twitter nowand enabling the people
actually sending
money to creatorsfor helping to drive
engagementthings on the platform.
I was just saying,you know,
I could see thisturning into a clickbait
(34:02):
sort of thing where you
you try and get peopleposting
underneath your comments
just to be ableto, you know, drive
some outrage,some something.
The because it's basedmore on I'm
not necessarilysure it's based on value,
but it's based on
attention, which I don'tthink at the same things.
And I think that can gosome different ways.
(34:25):
But I thinkhis overall strategy
is probably the best wayto do it,
which is experiment,try these things out,
Value for value.
I think is the best model,the best model, best
method of doing things.
And when I experiment out,
I want to tryand come back into the
the critical,critical of it.
So as I was talking aboutwith those hybrid models,
(34:45):
I think that
strays away from valuefor value,
the core principles of it.
But they can beinteresting nonetheless.
And yeah,I would definitely
say thatjust in terms of a life
principle, experimentingis is very, very useful.
And that was sentusing Fountain,
one of the appswhich enable micropayments
and boosting come in
actually all of these werefrom fountain this week
(35:07):
another one here from Jean
Bean so this is the host
of the VolunteerTechnologists.
I may be wrong,
but I think one peer
group instance can mirrorcontent from another.
If so,
and if the
blueberry serveryou are in
now is true,
then you should be able
to stay there and mirrorto any troupe.
No ideaif that's appealing,
but wanted to mention itregardless.
And then he sent through atwo kilobyte boost 2048
(35:29):
sent using fountain.
Yeah,I honestly have no idea.
This is I'm I'm at the
I'm just gettingcomfortable
with the kind of live
aspect,the technological aspect.
I'm at the moment
and I'm going to beworking my way
towards trying differentways of doing this.
I might try some video
and if I was
(35:49):
going to do it, I yeah,I probably would not use
YouTube and I would trysomething like peer group.
So this mirroring aspect
and getting the streamonto different places,
I'm I'm not going to rushthat.
I was talking about thatI think a couple
of weeks agoin the live chat as well.
I'm yeah I'm at the momentmy I've got a whole
(36:11):
bunch of other thingsdifferent to do.
For example,I have 48 phone panels
sitting on my desk
in front of me,
which need to go upon the walls
to get ridof some of this reverb.
So I've got a gotall sorts of stuff to do.
But thank you very much,Jane. Been all out.
I'm definitely goingto look into that.
It's just that
at what point and when wehad Macintosh coming in.
(36:32):
So this is the host of
generation Bitcoin
and he says
Music V for V might bebigger than any of us
except Adam. I thinkit will be Mcintosh.
And then he sent 2121sets sent using Fountain.
So once again,the bitcoin number there.
And yeah,
look, honestly, I thinkit'll be pretty big.
I talked about thison one of the shows
and I might have neglectedto mention it
(36:54):
just in here, butI was talking about how
I think thesehybrid models will emerge.
It was on episode403 of the Mere Mortals
podcast that came out.
So if you want to know
more about
the hybrid modelsand I was really
getting into Spotifyand I'm basically
(37:15):
I have an openbet out there
that I think the Spotifywill be bankrupt within
eight years.
So if you want to,
if you're intriguedinto what
that is all about,
I would recommendchecking that out.
But yeah,
I think
music value for valueis going to be huge
and I'll probably betalking about
that in about 2 to 3 weekstime.
I'm just going tofocus more
on the ascending of value,the monetary value
(37:37):
at the moment,and then get on to how
this is being implementedin some really cool
ways, suchas what Adam Curry is doing
with theboostagram Ball
The finalone I have here is
from Gene Bean againcoming in
and he says,Don't feel icky
about fountainadvertising.
It's really greatand non shady model
A one kilobyteboost 1024 cent
(37:57):
using fountain as wellYeah I yeah
I've changed my tuneon that it was my default
is just to be scepticalof advertising.
I was actually talking
with my brotherabout this last night
and he was
and I was tryingto explain to him
the V for V and why I'mso big into it.
And there's
many different aspectsthat I I'd try to it.
(38:18):
One is
I just personally
don't like adsand I feel like
I've been trickedby ads in the past
two is I thinkstrategically relying on
I think the censorship
aspect of it playsa big part of it.
The strategic aspect
of only having one or twoadvertisers coming in.
And if they get can't
(38:40):
and that's the weak point,I guess I would much
ratherhave be supported by
500,000 true fanslike Kevin Kelly article.
I would much ratherbe supported by a thousand
different peopleacross the world
in various aspects.
All who can make their ownindividual decision
making rather than threeadvertisers
(39:00):
who are very vulnerableto a couple of emails
sent by peoplewho dislike me
and dislike the showand decide to
not sponsor any more.
I think juststrategically, it's a
it's a risky position
to be putting yourselfin, much like
if you build a businessbased on Instagram or
Facebook or YouTube,
(39:21):
you don'tcontrol that medium.
And so you can getkicked off at any point.
You can get throttledwith the algorithms.
You know, it's it'sa tricky game.
It's tricky gameand a risky game, I think.
And that's a risk
that I personallyam not willing to take,
although it might seem
that going all in onvalue for value
might might seem slightlyrisky to some people.
(39:43):
I'm goingto jump onto my tips.
So thank you very much.
And thank you, everyonewho is streaming as well.
It's very,very much appreciated.
And that person
was streamingand live right now.
I really do appreciate it.
I want to give some tipsat the moment.
So one of the things that
I noticed
and I've taken this from
when I was listeningto flooding with Bitcoin,
who I talkedabout the other way,
but this isacross a few shows as well
(40:06):
of only mentioning one
service and this servicebeing fountain
like I was justmentioning.
I think it's just good
to be mindfulof creating a community
on only one app.
The Stitcherapp, for example,
is closing downits service,
the Damas app,which was used for Nostr
(40:26):
kind of got kickedoff of the App Store.
It's not hard to imaginethe various ways
that any of these thingscould go wrong.
And havingjust that single
point of focus of failurecan be a problem.
I think
what I've seen withthis show is really great
was it's not just phonesand people are using other
ways of supporting in.
And I'll talk about all
of these variousapps in a second,
(40:49):
but I would just say
it is worthat the very least
highlightinghow other people can help
support the show.
So I would agree Fountainis a really great app.
It's it'smy go to at the moment and
it's got gota great community there
but I would just say
just just be mindful,you know, if
if you're putting allyour chips on one place,
(41:12):
once again, it's justa it's just a risky aspect
to do so with the appand service highlight.
I just wanted to givea reiteration
of all
the various different appsthat you can use to
do micropayments.
So obviously I mentionedFountain.
Another greatone is podverse,
who I mentionedthe other week as well,
(41:34):
some other cool onesthat can do this casta
Matic
I have yet to really useCastamatic myself
because I do not have thatphone.
I don't.
That's only on iOS,so I don't have that phone
myself.
The Podfans,
which at the momentis just on the web, but
hopefully will be comingto a a mobile app
(41:56):
in the nearest futureis also able to do this
Podfriendcan also do it.
Curiocaster,
a great one for
the desktop podfriendis also on the desktop.
They used to have a
I can't remember whatit was.
The mobile thing wouldjust say it's desktop.
The moment
(42:16):
podstation
also doesthe stats asset streaming.
We also haveanother one called Breez,
which is mostlya lightning wallet,
but it does have podcastabilities in there.
I'm going to throw this
out therebecause it is doable
with the Sphinx dot chat.
That's a really old one.
I wouldn't recommend it,
(42:37):
but it is
there and I'm justlooking at something in.
There's one thingcalled the value
for value calculator,
and I don't even knowwhat this is.
Yeah, but if you're
really interested in that,you can go on to there.
But the main ones I wouldrecommend are fountain
castamatic, podverse,Curiocaster, podfriend.
(42:58):
Thoseare probably and breez,
those are
probably the big appswhere you can do this
streaming of setsand they're ones
which I have
personally used
Costa Rica a long time ago
when I had accessto my brother's phone and
and could use that outand pod fans coming up.
So yeah those are the appswhere you can do
streaming institutionsif you want.
(43:18):
Let's jump onto my Valuefor value section
and for this week I'mgoing to give 15% to Dave.
Dave Jones,the Podsage himself,
for putting in a sillyamount of effort
to make this all happen.
Those things thatI was just reading off
before all of the specs,
I believe,that were written by him,
so much of what he hasdone is been helping to
(43:40):
create all this backendinfrastructure
to allow all of this magic
Internet money to actuallybe sent back and forth.
He also
wrote Helipad,which is a service for you
that lets you see exportcollate
the streaming of stats andand boosts.
I personally use
(44:02):
fountainand Satoshi stream
and get I'll bea combination of them.
All of them.
I can see
the amount
the boostagramsbut then also
the streaming of statscoming in.
But if you want amore self-hosted version,
you can also go throughhis helipad.
It's not even a service.
You don't have to payfor it or anything.
It's just free software
(44:24):
that is out thereand that you can use.
So very, very cooland much appreciation
to Dave Jones.
So what is my finalrequest?
Well,
one of the thingsthat you could do is
you could up yourstreaming amount here.
So you know, what value doput on this show.
If you had 100 statsper minute,
45 minutes, that's aboutone Australian dollars
(44:46):
for an episode.
So forthe last 45 minutes,
was that worth it for you?
Did you get one dollarsworth of one
Australian dollar'sworth of value?
So that's
I think what, 70, $0.67 ussomething like that out
of, out of this podcast.
If so you know, set itat 100 cents
per minute
if it's a little bit less,if it's a little bit
more or a lot lessor a lot more.
(45:06):
In either case,I really am
appreciative of peoplesending in these.
The smaller
the small amounts,
and it gives me a kickof joy every time that I
go onto that Telegram appand I just say,
okay, you know,someone is streaming sites
in through
at this very it'sso, so cool
and I can still see
the still doing itat this very moment.
So I really,really do appreciate that.
(45:29):
Just in terms ofvalue for value as well,
there's manydifferent apps
I just listed offa whole portion of them.
If you don't want to do itin a monetary form,
letting someone knowabout these cool
different things,if you are a podcast fan
and you know a podcastapp personally,
or if you are a podcasterand you want to know
how to do more of this,
reach out to me via
(45:50):
any of the linksin the show notes
and I'm more than happyto help guide you into
how to do this.
It is relatively simpleand there are
ways of doing this now,which you do within five
5 minutes.
It's it's not a
hard processif you have some talent,
if you know more aboutthe streaming of sets,
(46:10):
if you know moreor if you know
any examplesof micropayments
working in the pastfor other services
just across the Internet,
not even podcastingrelated, I would
I would love to knowabout that.
Some historical history,things like this.
And you feelI've done a mis service
by not talking about them.
I would love to knowthose things.
You know, please
(46:30):
boost
that in
is the best wayof doing that,
but also just reaching outto me.
So very,very cool micropayments.
I think they are going
to be a big aspectof the future and
yeah, I do just want tothank everyone for,
for tuning in for this onetoday
and I will be backonce again next week.
At the same time 10 a.m.
on a Wednesday morning
(46:52):
Australian EasternStandard Time
and yep until thenext time. Chao for now Kyrin out.
Micropayments actually work!
Welcome everyone
to episode 43 of the Valuefor Value podcast.
My name is Kyrin, hostof the Mere Mortals Podcasts
and also this one.
And this is the show
for digital contentcreators
who want to connectmore deeply
(00:21):
with their audienceand also be able to learn
and earna living at the same time.
Man, Got to get that out.
I want to justreiterate here
that I am liveon a Wednesday 10 a.m.
at UTC plus ten,
which is the equivalentof the boundary between
a Tuesday, Wednesday,midnight at UTC zero.
So easy way of thinking.
This is wherever you arein the world,
(00:42):
if you're in a plus zone,
just add on thoseplus hours onto that
Tuesday midnight.
Or if you're in the minuszone, take it away
and you'll knowexactly where you are.
And if you canlisten live to it.
I would really appreciateyou joining in as well.
Let's dive straight intothe topic for this week.
So I've got a fairfew things to talk about.
And this is all aboutmicropayments.
(01:03):
So in the pastcouple of episodes,
we have really been
focusing on the podcaststhemselves.
We're looking at lit,
we're lookingat the four properties.
What is podcast emergenceof podcasting 2.0.
And Ikind of promised, okay,
this is what's going to beone of the things
that has emergedfrom podcasting 2.0
and this is the value tag,
and I want to explain
(01:24):
how this workswith the RSS feed.
And we're goingto really be
focusingon the micropayment
aspect of itfor for this time.
So first of all, I hope
we all knowwhat an RSS feed is.
This is where your podcastis is kind of hosted.
I guess this is thedirections for podcasting
apps to be able to see,okay,
this is where the audiofiles are located.
(01:46):
This is the descriptions.
They want a real source of
informationand how to display
what it is
that you'retrying to display in a,
you know, mostly an audioformat for podcasting.
But blogs use RSS as well.
And we'll we'll touch uponthat in a little bit
of a later section.
So what the value tag is,is it's essentially a
(02:09):
a way for youto put in a wallet
and for people to pay
you directlywithout permission,
without any stringsattached.
And we're talkingabout the permissionless
aspect of of Bitcoin andof the RSS and podcasting.
So what this doesis it's really cool
because you can justput something in.
(02:29):
It's there in your feed.
You don't have to
be changing it
for all of the differentcurrencies
and bankaccounts of the world.
Now, there's reallyno way to do this
in podcastingbefore podcasting
2.0 came alongand allowed this.
So in this casewe are using
mostlythe Lightning Network,
but once again,there's some abilities to
(02:50):
change things up.
And what people can do
is they can sendin micropayments to you.
So for every minute,
every bit that they willlistening to you,
they can continuouslystream some money.
So one of the coolthings about this is
you have the abilityto create splits.
And so what I can doand what I do do is put in
(03:11):
multipledifferent levels of splits
for everyonewho I think is deserving
and helpingof creating this podcast.
So now for meyou might say, Okay.
Kyrin, but you'rejust an individual.
You can just put in oneand that'll be fine.
But I actually wantto help out other people
who make this all happen.
My co-host, Juan,who I run the mere mortals
with, not on this show,but on my my main show.
(03:34):
I guess
I like to include a joint
walletthat we have as a split
because the microphonesthat I'm using,
the room,the sound panels,
all the stuff thatI've got going on here,
he helped to pay for
a large portion of thator half of it. Exactly.
So I want to include himon part of it.
I want to include a extraperson, as I do weekly
(03:57):
for for 15%who I think is really
helped me out this weekor is helping out the
the kind of ecosystemI want to include the apps
which give me serviceswhich really help me
and you will see this forthis particular podcast.
I've got one calledSatoshis Stream.
I've talkedabout them before
and they are really greatfor data collection
and for being able tosurface boosts and be able
(04:19):
to connect to the discordand all of these things,
which I just wouldn'tbe able to do myself.
So whenyou are creating a podcast
or when you're creating
a piece of artworkor a music, you know,
if you're in a band,
there's probably goingto be a minimum
three or four people.
And all of those people,if you are trying to
(04:41):
monetise that,there's there's
no real easy way to do it.
You need complicatedlegal contracts.
You need,
you know,
so many interestindustries
have these
non-productive middlemenwho are there
kind of solelyto provide trust.
I feel inthe best of cases
or who are restrictcontrol
while also charging youfor it as well.
And I thinkthe music industry
(05:02):
seems to be rifewith this.
I haven't had a firsthandexperience myself,
so I'm not a musician,
but I know peoplewho are musicians and
and they say thatthe process of trying to
put your music on Spotifyor on Bandcamp
or a large portionof these places,
it just gets chewed out.
(05:22):
You know, they charge
high, high feesand what ends up happening
is if you get 100,000streams on Spotify,
a big number
in the
podcasting equivalent,you would get $20 per per
thousand.
So that'd be $2,000
if you justdid standard advertising.
If you do that on Spotify,
you're not getting twogrants.
(05:42):
You're getting, you know,a couple of dollars,
maybe $20, maybemaybe 100, who knows?
But it's significantly,significantly less.
So I think one of the coolthings that really is
about this value tagand being able to put a
a way for people to payyou directly within your
your RSS feed
is that it just cuts outso much of the kind
(06:05):
of bullshitand it can be done
on a peer to peer basis.
The peoplewho want to pay,
you know, that it'sgoing directly to you.
And this is really coolbecause this is basically
basically micropayments
and I am a slightly tooyoung to know
the full historyof the Internet.
I was born in 1992,so I was coming up,
(06:28):
I guesswith it in the 2000,
but it seemedthat micropayments were
this kind of golden thing.
Everyone wanted to do it
like, wouldn'tthis be amazing to do?
And this would createbetter incentives for
for everyoneyou would need it.
It just seems likesomething
that would solvea lot of problems,
but it was neveractually implemented.
And I was listeningto Adam Curry
(06:49):
not too long agoand he was saying,
Yeah, you know,
this probably thismight be the first time
micropaymentshas actually been done
and is actually working.
So very,very cool for that.
The other thingI mentioned was
everyonegets a piece of the pie
that the podcastapp developers hosts
if they want to get inon this blueberry,
for example,you can use their,
(07:10):
their functionalityin on their dashboard
and they just ask for,I believe it's a
4% or 5% split.
You can
put in
collaborators,you can put in
additional servicesfor statistics,
you can put in charities.
I mean, hell,
you can even put in
the listener back into itif you want.
So what this does
is it really one enablesa lot of optionality
(07:32):
and I think it alignsa lot of incentives
and it can cut outa lot of the kind of
I won't say bullshit,but I think just a lot of
we all know
people who have a jobwhere they have
a ridiculous amountof time for that,
for that work,
and they kind of only work2 hours, 3 hours a day.
(07:52):
I think
if you can eliminate
a lot of that chaffin the system,
it makes for a betterworld.
Now, let's get on to,I guess, the streaming
aspect of this.
So streaming sets
and this isthe main use case
we see nowin podcasting 2.0,
and we can see this across
a varietyof of different apps.
And so this how this worksis generally it's
(08:15):
calculatedin one minute intervals,
thoughnot necessarily sent
being in one minuteintervals.
So batching occurs.
So if you go into the appsitself,
you wouldtypically see down
at the bottomof the screen
it'll say ator have a a little counter
or a little circle
near the play button or
off to the side of thator something like that.
(08:37):
And you can chooseas the listener
how much
that you want to stream in
to your favouritepodcaster.
For me, myself,I like the $0.21
per minute because that'show many bitcoin
there are going to be.
It's just a kind ofsymbolic number.
And even afterlistening to this,
I might change thatbecause I've
got some stats on here on
(08:57):
how muchthat is actually worth.
Once again,the micropayment aspect
is kind of highlightingthe micro ness of it.
It's this is intendedto be smallish amounts,
but you know,
small can differfrom for different people.
If a billionaire
was listeninginto the podcast
and they were streamingin, you know,
2100 sets per minute,
(09:19):
that would still berelatively small
for them in comparison
to tomy perception of wealth.
So we have this, thisaspect here,
unlike subscriptionsor paywalls,
you're only payingfor what you actually use.
This is why
micropayments are so
cool and can helpa lot of other systems
which are in place.
(09:39):
And you might say, okay.
CORIN But there's there's
other waysyou can do this.
You could do thisthrough the patron model.
And this is getting moreto the
the value for value aspect
and getting closerto the heart of that,
which is I providevalue for you upfront,
and then you provide itback to me in
whatever numberand way that you want.
Okay, Well,this is beautiful
for two different reasons.
One, you get to choosethe value
(10:01):
that you sendback to me, i.e.
you get to choose how many
satoshis per minuteyou want to send to me,
and it stops as soonas you stop listening,
which is in contrastto something like Patreon
where you have to just payand it just goes
automatically and you've
kind of paid for a month,I guess.
So this is really gettingto that aspect
(10:21):
wherewhat if I only want to get
two weeks worth of valueout of this?
What if I only want to
listen to the show
just to kind of test
it out and see, doI actually like this show?
And so I'm goingto jump on to here
onto the GitHubfor the podcast namespace.
And Dave Jonescreated this thing,
a little captionhere called Play to Pay,
whichI think is really cool
(10:42):
because it explains itquite nicely.
So I'm just goingto read this out.
This,
this dong can be thought
of as play to pay rather
than the traditional payto play pay wall approach.
When a media listener
such aswithin a podcasting app
presses the play buttonon an episode
whose feed containsa value block,
a compatible appwill be expected
to begin streamingmicropayments
(11:02):
to the designatedrecipients
on a time interval
that makes sensefor the app.
So it actually doesn'teven need
to bein these minute intervals
and I'll get on tothat soon.
The amount of each paymentcan be any amount
the listenerchooses, including zero.
If the list
of the listener chooses
not to pay to listento this media,
then the app can ignorethe value block
of that feed
(11:23):
and thenit goes down a little bit.
Low payment intervals,the time interval
for calculating paymentsis always one minute.
However,the actual interval
between when paymentsare sent can be longer.
The intervalshould be chosen
with a few factors
in mind,such as connectivity.
Is the appcurrently online
transaction fees
batched payments togetherto reduce fee percentage
cryptocurrency networkload can be given crypto
(11:46):
network or APIsupport this payment.
Right?
So there'sa couple of things
related to that therewhich were were
pretty much what I washighlighting.
This does fit the valuefor value model
more closelythan something
that takesa paywall approach
and it's accessiblefor people
who are just coming inand who are just
(12:08):
a little bit uncertain.
Do I actually like thiscontent or not?
And maybe
when you're coming infor this
first time,
you could havethe default a zero
because you'relistening to a show and
you only want to send itwhen you
when you think it'sit's worthy of sending.
Now, whatI actually really
like about this as wellis that it's rather
passiveand doesn't actually
(12:28):
require active decisionmaking to be made
whilealso allowing the listener
to determine the amount.
So this is classicV for V,
and I think it'sthis passive part
which is really
interesting and intriguing
because when we lookat the value
for value modelthat is being done on
something like No Agenda,for example,
it does requirea kind of bigger effort
(12:51):
on an individual's part.
Now what they typically doon that show
with this is AdamCurry and John C Dvorak is
they've done this largelythrough PayPal,
and PayPal is good enoughfor one instance
and this is being able
to set uprecurring payments.
And so you can havejust this thing
(13:12):
which will go every monthand go, bam, you know,
do I want to send thisto the show?
Well,it doesn't even ask you
if you just set it up.
It will justautomatically do it
as long as you have
enough moneyin your PayPal wallet
or maybe even your bankaccount.
And PayPal can can workstraight from there.
I'm not actually sureI don't
use PayPal that often.
(13:33):
And this is once
again getting closerto the value for value.
But the more passiveaspect of it, which is
I don't you know,
if I was tryingto decide each
and every single time that
I listen to a podcast,you know,
how much is this worth?
How much do I want to pay?
Is this is this showbetter than this
(13:54):
other show?
Should I send themthis much? It's too much.
It is too much overload.
Whereas with this system,
once again, you can justchoose a number.
And I've chosen
my number
and I might
change a different numberin the future.
But once I've chosen that,every show
that I listen to fromthen on, it's
just a constantstream and going in.
I'm not having
to make
(14:14):
these active decisions
and the moreactive decision.
So something like BoosterGrams,
which I'll save for the next episode and number 44.
So getting on to
another aspect of this,which is
I think it's relativelysimple on the surface,
the micropayment aspect,
I want to choose an amountof money to go to my
(14:36):
favourite artist
or content creatoras I'm listening,
and as soon as I stoplistening,
I want it to stop.
I think that's prettysimple.
I get to choosehow much I want
and I can justkind of maintain this
for as long as I want.
Now the complex thingis more
on the application side,
and this is morejust of interest
(14:58):
perhaps for for people,which is there's so many
different various waysthat this could all
that they have tomake decisions.
So this is the application, the podcast app that is
tuned, that is
receivingthese micropayments
and then passing them on
or enabling this,I should say.
So for example,
(15:19):
if someone is listeningto a show and they want to
and they end up sending545 so they listen for,
you know, X amount of time
at let's makethis even easier,
they have the streamingset set at 54 per minute
and they listenfor 100 minutes.
So that's an hour and 40minutes worth of content.
(15:42):
They will have sent 540.
But okay, the the amountthat is actually going
to individual peoplein the in the value block.
So this is in the actualRSS feed.
How's that going to getdivvied up?
It's pretty easy
if there's just onein there
or 540will go to that person
(16:03):
and to thatthat that wallet.
But what if there'stwo of them?
Okay, well,I guess you could
maybe have it as 270going to each.
Okay.
What if there's four ofthem in the equal splits?
Okay. Well, I guess 135.
But you can kind ofsee how this could get
into a pointwhere it's like
if you have 100 differentpeople all getting 1%,
(16:25):
well, you can'tdivide 40 into 100.
So like
withouthaving micro portions.
So at some point
they're going to haveto make
some decisions of going,okay, well,
this person is too low.
So we're just goingto send
a rough amount of setsto these other people.
Another case would belistening at 1.25 speed.
(16:47):
What does the person
who is streaming itin, do they expect this
to be
for the actual minutesof the show
or the actual minutes
of how longthey're listening,
which will be shorter
because they're listeningat a faster speed?
Or if you do the oppositeversion
at 0.75 speed, whatwhat about in that case?
You can also have mistakes
in the podcast aside
(17:07):
where you might not havethings adding up to 100%
and might add up to99% or 101
and we see thisrelatively often,
How do we do?
We then dividethat have to
do more recalculations,Then there's fees as well,
which are
probably somethingI want to just touch
(17:27):
upon becauseI heard someone
on anothershow, a listener
being worried about the
the fees that arecurrently occurring
and the app developersare smart and they make
a lot of decisionsand they have
to make these choices.
And they
these are individual onesthat they decide to.
In this case,
most of themare pretty smart
and so they will say,okay,
(17:50):
the actual sending throughon the minute
basis is kind of hardand it's going to rack up
some fees.
And so what they will
typically do is they'llbatch these payments. Now,
I was chatting withsome of them on the
Mastodon instance,and that was
the kind of various thingssaying from,
(18:10):
you know,
every 3 minutesthey will send
in a batched payment.
I think some of themwere slightly
a bit larger than that,
but almost certainly theydo it as it's occurring.
And so they're not justwaiting
until you've finishedlistening to an episode
and then sending itall in one big chunk,
which I thinkcould be done as well.
I don't seeany problems with that.
(18:32):
But allof this is just, you know,
they're going to haveto make their own choices.
And so
if you're as a listener,you know,
a bit
concerned about this,just know that it's
incredibly complex.
And so a lot is happeningin this case
now that was a sectionhere which I just want
to touch upon,which was all of this
(18:53):
at the momentis based on lightning,
but you could even hear itin that section.
I was sayingwith Dave Jones
that he had cryptocurrency network load
and so
I'm just goingto jump down here
to the namespace again.
And this is where it says
Support currenciesand protocols.
The value blockis designed
to be flexible enough
to handle mostor any cryptocurrency
(19:14):
and even fiat currencieswith a given API
that exposes a compatibleprocess.
Currently,development is centred
mostly on lightning,
so this is the layertwo of bitcoin
using the key
and method
keys and allows for pushbased payments
without the recipientneeding
to generate an invoiceto receive them.
Another another methodto send spontaneous
(19:35):
paymentsvia lightning is amp
atomic multiple payments
which supersedes key
and in many waysin last form
robust and largerpayments.
However,it is still in beta
and thus not widelyimplemented.
As of now.
So we can definitely say,okay,
this isn't even related
to a bitcoin thing,this can be anything.
(19:56):
As he mentioned, itcould be done with fiat.
So this is,
you know,
actual US dollarsor Australian dollars
or Canadian dollarsor Argentinean
pesos or Colombian pesos.
But not
much of it isactually done through that
becauseit's incredibly complex.
This could have
you know, we'vewe've had the ability
to do this forfor a large while,
(20:17):
but it actually no one'sactually implemented it.
It's morethrough the digital money
like Bitcoin where it it
it makes a lot more senseand it's actually doable.
It can cross geographicboundaries and there's no
and not as many laws
and restrictionsand regulations
related to the sending ofmoney like there is was.
(20:40):
If you wanted to
send micropayments
to your favouriteIranian podcaster
and your US based,I think that is going
to be pretty impossiblefrom what I know.
From what I gather,
how what we actually haveseen is that there is
room for more.
So you can actually do
this on the hiveblockchain.
I wanted to give a small
(21:01):
shout out to themand this is because,
you know,
one of the developersthere, Brian of London, he
made an active,
difficult choicepretty much on his own
to help implementthis into podcasting.
And we saw thiswith podcasting,
which is also usingthe Hive blockchain.
So it does allow forother people to come in.
(21:23):
This isn't just
a Bitcoin thing,it's a micropayment thing.
Actually sending money,actually sending value.
So that being said,it is mostly done
on the Lightning Network,which some Bitcoin and
I kind of avoidedor tried to avoid
highlightingthat it's a Bitcoin thing
and because I thinkit can extend beyond that,
(21:45):
but it is very much
centred uponthat at the moment.
And I would just say that
I find Andreasand Antonopoulos
to bea really great resource.
If you want to know moreabout what that is,
he's probably the personI've learnt the most about
regarding Bitcoinas a whole
and then the LightningNetwork as well
because is very tech basedbut explains it in
(22:07):
pretty simple and clearmanners.
He's got a book called
Masteringthe Lightning Network,
which I have yetto read myself,
but it's a very technicalbased book,
but I've heardgood things about it
and I've listenedto a lot of his podcast,
so I would justrecommend that.
So just getting onto the summary
aspect, I suppose, of this
directpeer to peer micropayments
(22:28):
enable flexibility whilst
being a passive activityfor the listener consumer.
I think this could beapplied outside of
podcasting as well.
I'm pretty sure there are
examples of peoplewho have set this up in
some sort of feedor reader
that you useon the internet
where for every, let's sayfor a blog, as you're
(22:52):
reading,the blog goes down,
you know,for each page scroll
that you do, or perhapsfor each paragraph
where you go fromone to the next,
that is when you,your browser or whatever
it is, willautomatically send
in a micropayment toto the recipient of that.
It's very muchthe same thing.
The podcasting versionobviously is audio and is
done on a minute basis,
(23:14):
i.e. youknow, I've listened
to this many
minutes of a podcast,
but you can do thisfor text as in, you know,
I'm going
to send in a micropaymentfor this much of a text
that I've read, you know,this many paragraphs.
So I think this can applyoutside of just audio
(23:34):
and video as well.
No reasonthis can't be done
with minutes of a videothat you've consumed.
So I think this isstarting to
go outto a broader example
and you actuallycan do this with video.
For example,
if you go on to
any of the
three speak feeds
which show up in podcastapps which support
the video version.
So once again, going backto what is a podcast,
(23:57):
typically it's an MP3,but you can have the video
podcast version ofthat, which is an MP four
and you can do this
if youactually want to do this,
you can type
in Miyamoto's podcast
without any spacesin between that
and you will see a feedthat I set up
a long time agoon three Speak,
which has some clipsthat I've created,
(24:18):
and these clips are muchlower quality.
I think I put them in 720p
and tried to make them
relatively short as well,but you can send
micropaymentsto that as well.
So this does workfor video.
So it's not justa podcasting thing.
Micropaymentsare actually working
for, I thinkfor the first time,
as far as I'm aware,on the on the Internet
and it's going to be very,very cool.
(24:40):
No system is perfect.
So if you are concernedabout this,
I would just say
maybe don't
use super big amountsbecause it is
it can be hard to knowexactly how much has gone
through to youryour favourite podcaster.
But I just want to say soif you
have a set at ten sitesper minute,
(25:04):
which is equal to 600an hour,
if you're listeningto an hour of content
and then 600 setsat today's prices,
that's about $0.12in Australian dollars,
which would probably be
about $0.10 $0.09 in USdollars.
That's not a whole lot forfor an hour's
worth of enjoymentthat you got.
(25:25):
I assumeif you're listening
to something for an hour,you would get
you know, you're onlypaying $0.10 for that.
But let's say
you do that forthe equivalent across a
let's say you're
listening to 10 hoursof podcasts a week.
You know, that'sthat's about a dollar.
You know, is that
is that somethingthat you can afford
(25:46):
a dollar a week for forlistening to to content.
Sure sure.
That's awesome.
And then the micropaymentsagain
it matters very little onan individual
if someone sends me $0.10.
So it's not going tochange my life.
But if 10,000 peoplesent me $0.10, okay,
well, that's that's $1,000that actually makes
(26:07):
and makes a difference.
So you can kind of
see where this canactually add up in the
large scale of things.
And so you can actuallyhave be supported as
and as an artist,
as a digital contentcreator,
whatever you wantto label yourself as,
by a lot of peoplesending you a little bit
amount of money,
This is kind of the dreamof crowdsourcing, right?
(26:29):
Being ableto do something like this.
Now, typicallythis changes because
even in crowdsourcingmodels, it's
usually a you havethis kind of power laws.
The the aspect of thatwill be a couple of people
who will donate
the largest amountsand kind of,
you know,
the 20% of people willsend in 80% of the value
(26:52):
or the sourcing for that.
That's probablyalways going to happen.
That seems to be a naturallaw of the universe.
It happens in galaxiesand stars and matter and
and light and all of thissort of thing.
So where I wouldn't
try and fightagainst that too heavily,
but I justthink this is really cool
and you can so if you've
(27:13):
been listening to this,this show
will probably go for45 minutes.
You know,
if you send in
what I typically do ofof 21 sets a minute,
you know, that's onlygoing to be about $0.15,
something like that.
So it's it's
not it's not crazy,crazy amounts of money.
I think hybrid models
usingthis will probably come
(27:34):
into the future,which will probably
trend slightly awayfrom pure value
for valuein its purest form.
But I think a probably
an enhancement of whatwe typically see nowadays.
So for thosewho are just wondering,
how does your Spotifytypical Spotify money
actually get divvied up?
(27:54):
So they're it's about220 million.
I think SpotifyPremium members
each paying,let's just say $9 of $9
a month of that$9 a month.
Where does that moneyactually go?
Well, a lot of it
goes into the royalty feesfor for music.
A lot of that
will go to the top artistsand so they will get.
(28:17):
So even if you're notlistening
to the Taylor Swift's
the Justin Bieber'sof the World,
and you are focussedsolely on a niche like me,
who listens to this onecalled free flow flava.
And it's kind of aJapanese is unhip.
No, not hip hop, Japanese
techno, drum'n'basssort of music
which I usefor my workouts.
I love listening to that.
(28:39):
They'rea much, much smaller
band and even if I listento them only exclusively,
my money wouldn'tgo to them.
It would goto someone else.
So I think there'sprobably going
to be some hybrid modelsin the future
where it willhave this aspect of, okay,
if I spend $9 a month
and I listen to theseten different artists,
(29:00):
it will do itbased more on
who the artistI'm actually listening to.
But I think this value forvalue the micropayment,
think of it actually
going to themin that time,
in that real timeaspect has a
it has a qualityto it, a uniqueness.
Every morningI've got a telegram chat
and a telegram bot set up
which lets me knowreal time
(29:22):
when people are sending mein micropayments.
And it is super,super cool because at any,
any given momentI can just check it
and it's like,Oh yeah, it's coming in.
So I can actually even say
there is someonelistening to me right now
who is streamingin some micropayments.
I see value for valuethree total payments,
$0.45, threetotal payments, $0.45.
(29:43):
And this is in the last5 minutes of ten, 13,
1022, ten, 27So whoever that is
that's listening in,Thank you very much.
I verymuch appreciate that.
So very, very cool.
I love it.I love this sort of thing.
So, yeah, I think justyes, I'm going it all up.
Micropaymentsare going to pay a large
(30:04):
a larger portion ofof being able to support
people on the Internet.
I think incentive creates
some really interestingincentives.
It enables
people to be
a lot more flexible
with howthey use their money
and how it getsdivvied up.
And I think it will create
some realbig efficiencies of
allowing usto not need to go through
(30:25):
restricted parties
or orgoing through platforms
which are there kind
to only only there forthe aspect of of trust.
So yeah,
I think it's
it's really cooland definitely something
that you should be
looking out forand not discounting
a large portionof podcasting 2.0
(30:45):
and of getting podcastersonto the system
is emphasisingthis boost aspect.
Like wow, a boost comes inand it can be super big.
But I think in
one of the coolest thingsis that unnamed?
Well, it'snot even unnamed.
You can't seepeople's names,
but it is kind of that
supportwhich maybe might not get
recognisedas as clearly and cleanly.
(31:07):
I am startingto do for the
just meremortals as a whole
for for tax purposesand things like this.
I'm startingto keep a monthly,
I suppose you'dcall it a budget or just
just keeping track of, ofhow much is, is coming in
and being able tothen be able
to report this tothe Australian Tax Office.
(31:30):
And what I can see here
is for July of 2023,
I have let'ssee how many sets come in.
So that was about across
the various showsthat I've got going on.
I had about 336,000
and of that amountthere was
a 51,000 of that was viapeople just streaming in.
(31:55):
So that's what 161 seventhof the total amount.
And that is justa really cool thing
to to have come in.
So it's
I would actually even lovefor that to be larger
in the future.
Um, and yetso it's just very cool,
very cool on that aspectand I think it's going
to, to changea lot of things.
(32:17):
I am now going to get intothe Boosta
Gram Lounge
and I'm going to actually
thank some peoplewho have been
supporting the show.
So takeit away. Mr. Adam Curry
Adam Curry (32:29):
Welcome to the value for value.
Boostagram Lounge,
Kyrin Down (32:36):
and boosta
Gramsfor those who don't know,
is a payment, a messagethat has been sent through
one of these apps directlyto the the wallets
the, the addressthat I put in my RSS feed.
So this is different to athe micro streaming
because you it now itenables people to actually
give some feedback as wellsome a comment a
(32:59):
a message that comesdirectly to me so
this can be very,
very beneficialin many ways
because I get some contentfor the show
and I get to actually
directly thank the peoplewho have been
helping to support.
So let's kick it offwith the first.
Yeah.
So this is from ColeMcCormick,
the host of the AmericaPlus, and he says,
(33:20):
I understand the riskwith advertising models,
but I'm leaning towardsusing and
experimenting with themrather than demonise.
Twitterseems like an opportunity
that's different
from YouTubeor Instagram influencer
or YouTuberor Instagram influencer.
Maybe I'mmoving to the bad light.
Someone help me
and then he sendsin his favourite number
5492 sats sentusing fountain.
(33:41):
So this is just inreference to not even sure
I talked about it,particularly
on this showwhere I was saying
with Twitter nowand enabling the people
actually sending
money to creatorsfor helping to drive
engagementthings on the platform.
I was just saying,you know,
I could see thisturning into a clickbait
(34:02):
sort of thing where you
you try and get peopleposting
underneath your comments
just to be ableto, you know, drive
some outrage,some something.
The because it's basedmore on I'm
not necessarilysure it's based on value,
but it's based on
attention, which I don'tthink at the same things.
And I think that can gosome different ways.
(34:25):
But I thinkhis overall strategy
is probably the best wayto do it,
which is experiment,try these things out,
Value for value.
I think is the best model,the best model, best
method of doing things.
And when I experiment out,
I want to tryand come back into the
the critical,critical of it.
So as I was talking aboutwith those hybrid models,
(34:45):
I think that
strays away from valuefor value,
the core principles of it.
But they can beinteresting nonetheless.
And yeah,I would definitely
say thatjust in terms of a life
principle, experimentingis is very, very useful.
And that was sentusing Fountain,
one of the appswhich enable micropayments
and boosting come in
actually all of these werefrom fountain this week
(35:07):
another one here from Jean
Bean so this is the host
of the VolunteerTechnologists.
I may be wrong,
but I think one peer
group instance can mirrorcontent from another.
If so,
and if the
blueberry serveryou are in
now is true,
then you should be able
to stay there and mirrorto any troupe.
No ideaif that's appealing,
but wanted to mention itregardless.
And then he sent through atwo kilobyte boost 2048
(35:29):
sent using fountain.
Yeah,I honestly have no idea.
This is I'm I'm at the
I'm just gettingcomfortable
with the kind of live
aspect,the technological aspect.
I'm at the moment
and I'm going to beworking my way
towards trying differentways of doing this.
I might try some video
and if I was
(35:49):
going to do it, I yeah,I probably would not use
YouTube and I would trysomething like peer group.
So this mirroring aspect
and getting the streamonto different places,
I'm I'm not going to rushthat.
I was talking about thatI think a couple
of weeks agoin the live chat as well.
I'm yeah I'm at the momentmy I've got a whole
(36:11):
bunch of other thingsdifferent to do.
For example,I have 48 phone panels
sitting on my desk
in front of me,
which need to go upon the walls
to get ridof some of this reverb.
So I've got a gotall sorts of stuff to do.
But thank you very much,Jane. Been all out.
I'm definitely goingto look into that.
It's just that
at what point and when wehad Macintosh coming in.
(36:32):
So this is the host of
generation Bitcoin
and he says
Music V for V might bebigger than any of us
except Adam. I thinkit will be Mcintosh.
And then he sent 2121sets sent using Fountain.
So once again,the bitcoin number there.
And yeah,
look, honestly, I thinkit'll be pretty big.
I talked about thison one of the shows
and I might have neglectedto mention it
(36:54):
just in here, butI was talking about how
I think thesehybrid models will emerge.
It was on episode403 of the Mere Mortals
podcast that came out.
So if you want to know
more about
the hybrid modelsand I was really
getting into Spotifyand I'm basically
(37:15):
I have an openbet out there
that I think the Spotifywill be bankrupt within
eight years.
So if you want to,
if you're intriguedinto what
that is all about,
I would recommendchecking that out.
But yeah,
I think
music value for valueis going to be huge
and I'll probably betalking about
that in about 2 to 3 weekstime.
I'm just going tofocus more
on the ascending of value,the monetary value
(37:37):
at the moment,and then get on to how
this is being implementedin some really cool
ways, suchas what Adam Curry is doing
with theboostagram Ball
The finalone I have here is
from Gene Bean againcoming in
and he says,Don't feel icky
about fountainadvertising.
It's really greatand non shady model
A one kilobyteboost 1024 cent
(37:57):
using fountain as wellYeah I yeah
I've changed my tuneon that it was my default
is just to be scepticalof advertising.
I was actually talking
with my brotherabout this last night
and he was
and I was tryingto explain to him
the V for V and why I'mso big into it.
And there's
many different aspectsthat I I'd try to it.
(38:18):
One is
I just personally
don't like adsand I feel like
I've been trickedby ads in the past
two is I thinkstrategically relying on
I think the censorship
aspect of it playsa big part of it.
The strategic aspect
of only having one or twoadvertisers coming in.
And if they get can't
(38:40):
and that's the weak point,I guess I would much
ratherhave be supported by
500,000 true fanslike Kevin Kelly article.
I would much ratherbe supported by a thousand
different peopleacross the world
in various aspects.
All who can make their ownindividual decision
making rather than threeadvertisers
(39:00):
who are very vulnerableto a couple of emails
sent by peoplewho dislike me
and dislike the showand decide to
not sponsor any more.
I think juststrategically, it's a
it's a risky position
to be putting yourselfin, much like
if you build a businessbased on Instagram or
Facebook or YouTube,
(39:21):
you don'tcontrol that medium.
And so you can getkicked off at any point.
You can get throttledwith the algorithms.
You know, it's it'sa tricky game.
It's tricky gameand a risky game, I think.
And that's a risk
that I personallyam not willing to take,
although it might seem
that going all in onvalue for value
might might seem slightlyrisky to some people.
(39:43):
I'm goingto jump onto my tips.
So thank you very much.
And thank you, everyonewho is streaming as well.
It's very,very much appreciated.
And that person
was streamingand live right now.
I really do appreciate it.
I want to give some tipsat the moment.
So one of the things that
I noticed
and I've taken this from
when I was listeningto flooding with Bitcoin,
who I talkedabout the other way,
but this isacross a few shows as well
(40:06):
of only mentioning one
service and this servicebeing fountain
like I was justmentioning.
I think it's just good
to be mindfulof creating a community
on only one app.
The Stitcherapp, for example,
is closing downits service,
the Damas app,which was used for Nostr
(40:26):
kind of got kickedoff of the App Store.
It's not hard to imaginethe various ways
that any of these thingscould go wrong.
And havingjust that single
point of focus of failurecan be a problem.
I think
what I've seen withthis show is really great
was it's not just phonesand people are using other
ways of supporting in.
And I'll talk about all
of these variousapps in a second,
(40:49):
but I would just say
it is worthat the very least
highlightinghow other people can help
support the show.
So I would agree Fountainis a really great app.
It's it'smy go to at the moment and
it's got gota great community there
but I would just say
just just be mindful,you know, if
if you're putting allyour chips on one place,
(41:12):
once again, it's justa it's just a risky aspect
to do so with the appand service highlight.
I just wanted to givea reiteration
of all
the various different appsthat you can use to
do micropayments.
So obviously I mentionedFountain.
Another greatone is podverse,
who I mentionedthe other week as well,
(41:34):
some other cool onesthat can do this casta
Matic
I have yet to really useCastamatic myself
because I do not have thatphone.
I don't.
That's only on iOS,so I don't have that phone
myself.
The Podfans,
which at the momentis just on the web, but
hopefully will be comingto a a mobile app
(41:56):
in the nearest futureis also able to do this
Podfriendcan also do it.
Curiocaster,
a great one for
the desktop podfriendis also on the desktop.
They used to have a
I can't remember whatit was.
The mobile thing wouldjust say it's desktop.
The moment
(42:16):
podstation
also doesthe stats asset streaming.
We also haveanother one called Breez,
which is mostlya lightning wallet,
but it does have podcastabilities in there.
I'm going to throw this
out therebecause it is doable
with the Sphinx dot chat.
That's a really old one.
I wouldn't recommend it,
(42:37):
but it is
there and I'm justlooking at something in.
There's one thingcalled the value
for value calculator,
and I don't even knowwhat this is.
Yeah, but if you're
really interested in that,you can go on to there.
But the main ones I wouldrecommend are fountain
castamatic, podverse,Curiocaster, podfriend.
(42:58):
Thoseare probably and breez,
those are
probably the big appswhere you can do this
streaming of setsand they're ones
which I have
personally used
Costa Rica a long time ago
when I had accessto my brother's phone and
and could use that outand pod fans coming up.
So yeah those are the appswhere you can do
streaming institutionsif you want.
(43:18):
Let's jump onto my Valuefor value section
and for this week I'mgoing to give 15% to Dave.
Dave Jones,the Podsage himself,
for putting in a sillyamount of effort
to make this all happen.
Those things thatI was just reading off
before all of the specs,
I believe,that were written by him,
so much of what he hasdone is been helping to
(43:40):
create all this backendinfrastructure
to allow all of this magic
Internet money to actuallybe sent back and forth.
He also
wrote Helipad,which is a service for you
that lets you see exportcollate
the streaming of stats andand boosts.
I personally use
(44:02):
fountainand Satoshi stream
and get I'll bea combination of them.
All of them.
I can see
the amount
the boostagramsbut then also
the streaming of statscoming in.
But if you want amore self-hosted version,
you can also go throughhis helipad.
It's not even a service.
You don't have to payfor it or anything.
It's just free software
(44:24):
that is out thereand that you can use.
So very, very cooland much appreciation
to Dave Jones.
So what is my finalrequest?
Well,
one of the thingsthat you could do is
you could up yourstreaming amount here.
So you know, what value doput on this show.
If you had 100 statsper minute,
45 minutes, that's aboutone Australian dollars
(44:46):
for an episode.
So forthe last 45 minutes,
was that worth it for you?
Did you get one dollarsworth of one
Australian dollar'sworth of value?
So that's
I think what, 70, $0.67 ussomething like that out
of, out of this podcast.
If so you know, set itat 100 cents
per minute
if it's a little bit less,if it's a little bit
more or a lot lessor a lot more.
(45:06):
In either case,I really am
appreciative of peoplesending in these.
The smaller
the small amounts,
and it gives me a kickof joy every time that I
go onto that Telegram appand I just say,
okay, you know,someone is streaming sites
in through
at this very it'sso, so cool
and I can still see
the still doing itat this very moment.
So I really,really do appreciate that.
(45:29):
Just in terms ofvalue for value as well,
there's manydifferent apps
I just listed offa whole portion of them.
If you don't want to do itin a monetary form,
letting someone knowabout these cool
different things,if you are a podcast fan
and you know a podcastapp personally,
or if you are a podcasterand you want to know
how to do more of this,
reach out to me via
(45:50):
any of the linksin the show notes
and I'm more than happyto help guide you into
how to do this.
It is relatively simpleand there are
ways of doing this now,which you do within five
5 minutes.
It's it's not a
hard processif you have some talent,
if you know more aboutthe streaming of sets,
(46:10):
if you know moreor if you know
any examplesof micropayments
working in the pastfor other services
just across the Internet,
not even podcastingrelated, I would
I would love to knowabout that.
Some historical history,things like this.
And you feelI've done a mis service
by not talking about them.
I would love to knowthose things.
You know, please
(46:30):
boost
that in
is the best wayof doing that,
but also just reaching outto me.
So very,very cool micropayments.
I think they are going
to be a big aspectof the future and
yeah, I do just want tothank everyone for,
for tuning in for this onetoday
and I will be backonce again next week.
At the same time 10 a.m.
on a Wednesday morning
(46:52):
Australian EasternStandard Time
and yep until thenext time. Chao for now Kyrin out.
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