Why Do We Collaborate?

Why am I travelling across the world to meet people who I've never even spoken to? In Ep#58 we're going to examine the driving forces behind collaboration and how technology is only enabling more and more of it.

Huge thanks to Cole McCormick, Deezlaughs, Adam Curry & Sam Sethi for supporting the show (plus everyone streaming as well). Check out their podcasts!

40% of this episode is going to Cole, Sven, The Doerfels and the app developers who make this all possible.

Timeline:
(0:00) - Intro
(1:11) - Why do people work for free?
(1:54) - Quote 1
(5:16) - But is there much creative collaboration?
(8:00) - Quote 2
(11:58) - Can these ideals change industries?
(12:20) - Quote 3
(13:43) - Topic continued
(15:46) - Where are we at now?
(19:43) - Boostagram Lounge
(24:03) - Latest Developments
(27:01) - Why Bitcoin
(31:20) - V4V: Time/Talent/Treasure
(34:00) - Stockholm - Abi Muir


Value 4 Value Support:
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Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts

Connect With My V4V Collaborators:
Cole: https://twitter.com/colemccormick1
Sven: https://twitter.com/StarfuryFlames
The Doerfels: https://www.doerfelverse.com/
Abi Muir: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6473218

Episode Transcript

Kyrin Down (00:00):
Why am I travelling across the world?
To meet people I've neverspoken to before.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Welcome everyone

(00:21):
to another episode of theValue for Value podcast.
I'm your host,
Kyrin here,and this is a podcast for
digital content creators
who want to connect deeperwith their audience,
perhaps monetise
their podcastor their product
or their musicor whatever it is
that they're creatingdigitally
and experiencethe benefits of peer
to peer connection
directlywith their audience

(00:42):
without having to use
the big conglomerationsof Spotify or,
you know,
social media and all thesesorts of things.
Now this episode todayis going to
talk a little bitabout why we collaborate
and perhaps
how collaborationmight change in the future
and how industrieshave changed overall.
So why do we do it?
Some different typesof collaboration,
how it's changedindustries

(01:02):
and where we fit.
The collaboration is as wespeak.
As I'm recording hereon the 11th of March 2024.
So why do people workfor free?
I think it'sa good question to ask.
And let's start off
with bustinga common misconception
and one that you'llconstantly hear me
repeating on this show.
Value
does not only equal money,money is part of it,

(01:24):
but it's not the onlything in the world.
And I think that moneyis not everything,
which is why,
you know,
why aren't people justchasing it constantly?
Why isn't it
not the only thingon their mind
that they're constantlydriving
for that dictatesall their decisions?
Why is everyonenot an investment banker
and working out
in the coal minesin hot, sweaty conditions
to earnas much bank as they can?

(01:46):
And you know, why wouldpeople even collaborate
for for no monetary gain,for no financial gain?
And this iswhy we're going to start
diving into a book
called The Inevitableby Kevin Kelly,
because he's got
quite a few points here
from this periodof the 2000
where people are startingto collaborate online.

(02:06):
And we were noticing,some interesting
behavioursare starting to occur.
They're actually workingreally hard
and not necessarilyfor financial gain.
So we're
going to have call read
out here from page 141
and then we'll do a little
bit of analysisof this quote.
In contrast
to the previous categoryof casual cooperation,
collaboration on largecomplex projects tend

(02:27):
to bring the participantsonly indirect benefits,
since each memberof the group interacts
with only a small partof the end product
and enthusiastsmay spend months
writing code
for a subroutinewhen the program's
full utilityis several years away.
In fact,
the work rewardratio is so out of kilter
from a free marketperspective,
the workers do immenseamounts of high market

(02:49):
value workwithout being paid.
That these collaborativeefforts
make no sensewithin capitalism.
I'm adding to the economicdissonance
we've become accustomedto enjoying the products
of these collaborationsfree of charge.
Half of all web
pages in the world
today are hosted on morethan 35 million servers
running freeApache software,
which is open sourcecommunity, created a free

(03:11):
clearinghouse called 3DWarehouse offer
several million complex3D models of any form
you can imagine a bootto a bridge
created and freely swapped
by the very skilledenthusiasts.
Nearly 1 million communitydesigned Arduino
sends 6 millionRaspberry Pi
computers have been builtby schools and hobbyists.
Their designsare encouraged

(03:32):
to be copied freely
and used as the basisfor new products
instead of money.
The peer producerswho create these products
and services gaincredit status, reputation,
enjoyment, satisfactionand experience.
So what we hear from
that is not
only arepeople collaborating,
but they're not doing itfor a hobby.

(03:52):
This is not just a little
bit of a fun thingon the side.
This is getting closeto serious work,
large scale collaboration,writing code
for a subroutine.
You know,
it's it'snot the sort of things
where you'd instantly
say like, that's
that's the most intriguingthing out there.
Now, look,for some people,
they actually reallylike coding.
And, you know,
I'm probablyone of these people
who's dived into something

(04:13):
that most peoplewould be like,
That's really boring.
Why would you wasteyour time
and spend time on that?
But it's interestinggoing through this
and we see peoplewho are working
dedicatedly on a project,you know,
this is what the it's gotresponsibilities,
it's got deadlines.
Things have to be met.
It's large scalecollaboration with,
you know, large

(04:34):
actual kind ofcorporate structures
where or hierarchies,
corporate is probably notthe best word for this.
And they still do itwithout compensation.
But as we heardin that last line,
I think thatlast line is crucial.
What else did they get inin return for this?
Well, they get credit,
they get status,they get reputation,
enjoyment, satisfactionand experience.

(04:54):
So when we start
to look at collaborationthrough a V for V lens
where we acknowledge,okay, not
everything is needingto be in a monetary form
and a.k.a the philosophyof value for value.
I think it explainsa lot of this behaviour.
So we can say, all right,
there's some collaborationgoing on
and people aren't doing itjust for money.

(05:16):
But is there much creativecollaboration?
Is there many peoplebanding together
to create something
that is perhaps uniqueor that they really want?
And this is where I saythere
is a ridiculous amount.
My favouritego to recently
has been to use Tick Tock
and I think this isjust a great place to see
what are people

(05:37):
actually doing on Tik Tokand what kind of stuff
are they?
Collaborate, how are theycollaborating on their
And I was just doing this
last night
just to make sure
for myself
because I didn't really
create TikTok on the on the usual.
But I was like,
I know I've seenwhat people are doing
and I'll I'll go through
a couple of the settingsand just, you know,
create a little videoand see what I can do.
So what you can do is

(05:57):
you can add musicto your video from,
you know, musiciansall across the world.
You can put graphic video
effects, you know,
swiping, stopping, doingthese sorts of things.
You can add imagery,you can put photos,
you can put stickersand you can put filters.
You can have
different typesof stylistic
texts and links that linkout to all these things.

(06:19):
So we
can see just onthe technical standpoint,
Tik-Tok didn't createall the stuff
they didn't create,you know,
the various differentfonts.
They didn't createall of these filters.
It was people
adding them
and they would incorporatethemselves into the app.
But there wasso much stuff
that's behind itand people are using this.
They're using it to create

(06:39):
different types of videosand things like this.
So we've got on
like the technicalstandpoint,
there's a lot of
collaborativethings that go on.
And then if you lookat the other side of it,
there's a lot of things
that people do,
which is actual content
that they'recollaborating with.
So they will reduce dances
that they've seenother people create.
Or perhaps,

(07:00):
you know, it'svery unlikely
because it's likethe whole chain of events.
That's got to besomeone who created the,
the first like,you know, rolling move
and punching thingor doing it to Doja cat.
They reusenew stories, they
reuse books and quotesfrom books a.k.a
like I'm doing right now,they reuse jokes.
They do in a certainextent.

(07:21):
They reusewhat other people
have created
in terms of artand in terms of
even building structuresand, you know, doing
walkthroughs of
this is my favourite gym
is my favouritepiece of equipment.
Look at this.
Like, here's ahow to here's
how to do this thing
our products
and just straight upother people's content.
They will you know
how many reaction videosare there to animate

(07:43):
to manga,to other people's videos,
to viral clips,all these sorts of things.
So the whole place is just
full ofexternal references
to other things.
It's pretty
rare to have someonecreating something
which is
completely unique to them,which doesn't reference
somewhere else out.
And there's
a huge workforceand huge hours
being made up

(08:04):
in thiscollaborative work,
and this is where
we're going to jump
onto another page,
another quote from page243 that backs up
this statement.
So far, the biggest onlinecollaboration
efforts are opensource projects
and the largest of them,such as Apache,
managed several hundredcontributors
about the sizeof a village.
One study estimatesthat 60,000 person

(08:25):
years of work have poured
into the release of FedoraLinux nine.
So we have proofthat Self-assembly
and the dynamicsof sharing
can govern a project.
On a scale of a town,
of course,
the total censusof participants
in online collectivework is far greater.
Reddit, the collaborativefiltering site
has 170 millionunique visitors per month

(08:47):
and 10,000daily active communities.
YouTube claims1 billion monthly users.
They are the workforce
that produces the videosthat now compete with TV.
Nearly 25 millionregistered users
have contributedto Wikipedia.
130,000 of themare designated active.
More than 300
million active usershave posted on Instagram,

(09:09):
and more than 700million groups
participate in Facebookgroups each month.
So there'sa ridiculous amount.
And obviously social mediais a phenomena
that has captured
a large partof the world's attention,
I guess you'd say,for the last 115 years,
something like that,maybe 20 years.
Few, including YouTubein this.

(09:31):
And so we see a lot ofpeople are creating stuff.
So I would say there
how much creativecollaboration is there?
That's all we do. That'sall we do as humans.
And from thisyou might say, okay,
you know,
look at these numbers
that people are creating
up on Redditand on Facebook,
Wikipedia or Instagram,all these sorts of places.
Doesn't this suggest

(09:52):
that people will createwithout profit and perhaps
even without attribution?
Because in that tik-tok
add a, you know, referencethat I just made
sure there'ssome little references
here in there
of, you know,especially if it's a music
clip, it'll,
it'll show downat the bottom,
you know, whatthe music clip is
and make it easierfor you to,
to share that viralityor to use it in your own

(10:14):
clip.
But I think there'sa lot of stuff going on
where it's
actually not
that, you know, one,
people aren't being ableto make a profit.
And to the attributionthat is not so great.
And so you could take well
and obviously this showsthat V for V
is not necessary
because it offersthose sorts of things.
But people are willingto do it anyway.

(10:36):
And this is where I go,Yeah,
this is where I'm starting
to see a trendgoing of people are
getting a bit fed up withthese platforms as well.
Not only there is that
the risk of of youbeing taken off,
whether it be for justor unjust reasons like
that was a recent newsstory of a US

(10:57):
someone on Spotify
they were hosting throughSpotify, Spotify
for podcasts,
very successful showand they just got
taken off for no reason.
And you know, it'sa computer glitch.
It's,
you know, malfeasance,whatever it is
that malevolencedoesn't really matter.
We seethat not only is there
that,but I think there's also,
you know,
just getting a little bitsick of the social media,

(11:19):
these places of making fatstacks of you creating
and you're onlygetting pincers in return,
whether it be through
a little bitof advertising or,
you know, a little bit of,
I suppose, what
the social media platformsoffer is,
is really a lot of clout.
That's it's
part of that behaviourthat we saw before,
the status, the reputationand things like that.

(11:41):
But I do definitely seethis trend happening
wherepeople are being like,
I want to
collaboratein different ways
and there's just notthe access,
the ability to do itthrough these platforms
and in the waythat I really want to. So
this iswhere we're coming into.
The next portion herewas, okay,
can these ideals of value
for value changeindustry is can they break

(12:04):
the revolution?
Can the revolutionbreak through
and create a new productor a new way of operating,
which is outside of whatyou would say of like
like the lockdown
social mediaplatforms, for example.
And I think the answer to
this is ais a resounding yes.
And I'm going to jumponto page 145 here,
which will show onesuch example of this.

(12:26):
How close to a noncapitalistic open source
peer production societycan this movement take us?
Every time that questionhas been asked,
the answer has been closerthan we thought.
Consider Craigslist justclassified ads, right?
Craigslistis far more than that.
It amplified the handycommunity swap board

(12:47):
until it reacheda regional audience,
then enhanced the adswith pictures.
It let the consumer
do all the workof inputting their own ads
and more important,
kept the ads in real timewith real time updates.
And to top it off,it made them free.
National classifiedsads for free.
How could debt laden
corporate newspaperscompete with that,

(13:08):
operating without statefunding or control,
connecting citizensdirectly to citizens?
Globally, daily,
this mostly freemarketplace
achieved social goodat an efficiency.
And at its peak,it had only 30 employees
that would staggerany government
or traditionalcorporation.
Sure, peer
to peerclassified undermines

(13:29):
the business model
of newspapers,
but at the same timeit makes an
indisputable casethat the sharing model
is a viable alternative
to both profitseeking corporations
and tax supportedcivic institutions.
Yeah, Yeah.
So, Imean, corporate newspapers
and one of their hugerevenue sources

(13:50):
of classifiedads got wrecked.
Absolutelywrecked by 30 people.
If you think Spotify,YouTube,
or any of these othersocial media platforms
cannot be toppled,you're definitely wrong.
I mean, like the newspaperindustry
is hundreds of years old,some of these places.
And just bya simple mechanism

(14:11):
of allowing usersto create their own ads.
And, you know, granted,that's a structured
format still.
They couldn't do anything
and everythingthat they wanted to,
but they offeredmore ability to do it.
They offered to do itfor free
through throughthis Craigslist platform.
And it just changedan industry.
It absolutely decimated

(14:31):
a lot of
what was happeningto the newspapers,
and they had to adaptand change that.
So, you know, thesethese other corporations,
the the
the ones ofof social media
and things like that,they're absolutely babies
comparedto some of these longer
standing industries
which didget revolutionised
just by the Internet,by the ability to

(14:54):
create peer to peer
interact in amore peer to peer manner.
And I think a quickbit of history
will show that nothinglost forever and that
I hope the argument
that I've made hereis that collaboration
one, humans like to do it
and it's not necessarilyfor money, but to
they will do it
on a large, large scaleand you can do it through,

(15:17):
you know,
corporate structuresor through hierarchies
and things like that.
But it's also,
you know,
down to the individualas well, and
and wanting to collaborate
with with music,
even if it's notnecessarily in their mind
that they'recollaborating.
I think that'swhat they're doing.
And that industriescan change by technologies
changing and allowingpeople to,

(15:39):
you know, just justinteract more directly.
Peer to peer as we sawwith with Craigslist.
So I want to jump downto, you know,
where are we at now?
And we're at the beginningstages, I think, of
of another revolution.
I think the social mediaera is coming to an end,
and we're going tocome to it at
a different type of era.
I think there'll still be
plenty of collaborationand if anything, more,

(16:02):
more and more peopleare getting freed up
from the drudgery of workand of manual labour.
And I did
4 hours of work yesterdayin my in my dad's garden,
and it was just, you know,moving trees around,
cutting stuff down.
And I was just thinkinglike,
imaginedoing 30 years of this.
This is ridiculous.
Thank God for automation,Thank God for machines

(16:25):
that can replacethe labour of,
you know,hundreds of farm workers
with a single tractorand things like this.
And more ofthis is just going to come
about moreand more and more.
And I am seeing thisat the moment.
So I listen to before
the music shows,for example,
and I've talked about
value for value musicbefore go,
you know,a couple of episodes
previous in thein the last season,

(16:47):
and these musiciansare just
starting to work together
and then they're startingto work together
with other people as well,with the podcast
app developersto be able to broadcast
live with peoplefrom Nostre, with people
with specific abilities
to create stageproductions.
And I think the answer.
COSTELLOJust loud concerts

(17:08):
brought together
a ridiculous amount
of people and showed casethat this
this could actually workand I might do
a little casestudy of that later.
But essentially it was tovalue for value musicians
getting togetherand creating something,
a live performance
with all sortsof interactive abilities
going on to read out,boost to do things
like this.

(17:28):
I myself just sent in222,222 Satoshis
So the equivalent of right
at this momentprobably about 230 AUD to
a guy called Burberrywhose was integral
to the creationof that previous concert
and wants to do anotherone in the near future.

(17:49):
In early April, I believe.
So I want to participatein these sorts of things
and people are wantingto create more of this.
You know,there's talks of trying
to get towards
a value for valuemusic awards shows.
I'm encouraging Cole,for example,
to experimentsto not only just do
book reviews for me, but,
you know, createanother podcast

(18:10):
where he perhaps reads outpoems or short stories
or things like this,you know, audio books.
And if that is not enoughto just show case
that, okay,
there is value for valuecollaboration going on,
you know, I'm
planning on travellingto the US in late July
to meet
a whole bunch of peopleI've never met before,

(18:30):
a whole bunch of them
I've never spokento directly before.
I don't think I've spoken
directly to Burberryin a face to face manner
yet I'm willing to spenda ridiculous amount
of time, energy, money
and all thesesorts of things
just to be able to getcloser and to be able to
collaborate more,to meet these people
and have fun with them.
And, you know, it'skind of like,

(18:52):
you know, sorry, my goodfriend Lucas in Brazil,
you know,
I'll spend three monthswith you,
but it's all about thecollaboration elsewhere.
Not exactly true,
but it's
a large partof the inspiration
of why I'm travellingis to is to go to the US
and to meetall these people.
So I thinkcollaboration is a
is a huge thing
and I think it's just

(19:12):
going to become moreand more prevalent and
it's going to
dictate.
It's going to move towards
a more valuefor value system
where it is
more transparentabout who did what
and to be ableto split things up.
You know,
I didn't even talk aboutthe money
aspect of of splits andjust how powerful that is.

(19:33):
But I thinkthat did a good job.
You let me know of
of talkingabout collaboration
and why it's important
and how we're going to
do it moreand more in the future.
Welcome to the valuefor value
histogram.
You got that?
I had that music there.
This is the Grand Loungewhere I think out

(19:54):
some people who helpedto support this show
in a monetary formatand to doing great things.
And you know, this createstime.
Christine.This takes time.
A lot of energy,a lot of lights
set up here, a lot of,
you know,
stuffing around, tryingto figure out all of these

(20:14):
all of the
the audioand technical issues
and things like this.
And so, you know,receiving some value back.
And once again,
for me, it'smore about the messages
rather thanthe actual money.
But the moneycertainly helps as well.
So I'm going to jump into
the V for V boostagrams from last week.
I'm pretty sureI called out Chad F
for jumping inand joining us live.
But if I didn't,thank you very much again,

(20:36):
as well as Cole,
who said we are so backand Cole once again
being the voice actorfor those quotes there.
The first onethat I really want
to read outhere is Dees laughs,
and he says, Sickshirt on the cover file,
a thousand setssent using fountain.
Thank you, Dees laughs.
And he's referring to,of course,
the shirt that I'm wearingright now,
the Podcasting2.0 certified shirt.

(20:59):
And I believe to get that
shirtyou need to have donated.
I think it was 100, $125through to the podcasting
to point our podcastindex project.
You just need toif you have done that,
just reach out to themand say that.
And I also, you know,you brought up shirt,
so I also have to talkabout the Miyamoto's one.
So if you donate

(21:20):
100,000 Satoshisso at this current moment
that is worth 105 ishAustralian dollars,
I will send you outa shirt, I'll
and you know,
if you're in the U.S.,it's a good chance
I'll deliver it to youpersonally.
And whether you do thatacross
any of the showsthat we produce,
the mere mortals,mere mortals book reviews
or the valuefor value show of course

(21:41):
will do that.
And wewe love doing that. So
I keep track of that.
That's through the boostagrams only,
unfortunately notthrough the streaming,
because it's kind of hardto to get all that.
But yeah, that's just aif you want another shirt,
that's that'swhere you can do it.
I see Sam Sethi wasstreaming in a lot.
I also see Adam see 1999Welcome back 10,000 site

(22:03):
and. All.
Sent using fountain.
Thank you very much Adamthat is of course
Adam Curry the godfather
sending that inso I very much
thank you for him
and I also want to give a
shout out toI mentioned Sam Sethi.
He's was streaming in
through his his ownpodcast app True fans.
And I just want to give a
shout out to the true fansbecause
I think they're doingsome really good things

(22:24):
there and it's becominga more fully fleshed out
app, reallygreat on the desktop
and on your onyour mobile.
So either of those isgreat to join in.
And I did see thisthis guy here, Marty, who
just said good,
and I don't knowif this is a boost,
I'm not exactly sure.

(22:44):
I think it's a boostI got once that from that.
Thank you,
Marty, and appreciate
if you could send inat least a hundred so
that can get split up to
all the peoplewho I have in my splits.
But he's got a really goodservice there and it's
a great onboarding one.
So if you're
if you're newto all of this
and you like Satoshis,
boost your groundvalue for value.

(23:05):
Like, I don't understandwhat's going on.
I'd recommendtrying out true fans
because when you're using
his app,
he's got a lotof explainers
that pop up on your screenand say, like,
if you do this action,this is what it means.
And you can get rewarded
from thisby getting some satoshis,
which is a portionof Bitcoin.
And I would just highlyrecommend trying out

(23:25):
true fans.
I think it's a greatservice to onboarding.
And if you've got friendswho are
you also want to recommend
telling them to go
to a place where they canjust earn it
by doing stuffwithin the app.
And you know, obviously
they're not goingto become billionaires
from doing this,but enough to get a feel
for what satoshis areand things like this.
I highly recommend
checking out true fansand giving that out.

(23:48):
So thank youeveryone for who
and of course
one for joining me in the
in the live chatand helped out a lot
with getting all of thesesorts of things sorted,
especially the audioside of things
which were stuffing me upa little bit.
So what are some latestdevelopments?
Well, if you listento the podcasting 2.0

(24:08):
show last week,you would have heard that,
you know, app development,hard app development,
really hard. And
I was just going through,
you know, all of the
different thingsthat you would have to
to try and createto every single person
who comes in with bugtesting or complaints
and, you know,your is not working,

(24:29):
this isn't doing thisand doing that.
And it's almost like a
thankless taskbecause you're
I came up with the analogyof Sisyphus
rolling the boulder uphill
and the boulder is the app
because it'sjust never done.
There's always something
new to add into it, alwayssomething to be fixed.
Had a chat recentlywith Jason Hudgins
from Podcast Guru.

(24:49):
Another great value forvalue Podcasting 2.0 app
where you canlisten to music in there
and supportyour favourite artists,
which supports splits,
which does streaming,which does boost,
which does chapters, whichdoes, you know, popping.
So you got itinstantly updated.
All of these appsare a great service
and they're offering
excitingbrand new features.
And I this is justmy call out to from that

(25:12):
interview as well
He washe was talking about
like you know, at his job
I've got a backlog of 168things.
It's just meworking on this app.
It's not making moneyat this precise moment.
And this is my callup for you at home
for listening in,
whether you be an appdeveloper yourself
or you know, some codingand you want to contribute

(25:32):
in an open source manner.
I know many of these appsare open source, like
a podcast, for example.
If you're
along that sort of lines,
if you're just a casualobserver and you like to
to boost in,or if you are perhaps
even a podcast creator,
you know,
you can add these appsin as part of your splits
and help to supporttheir development
and writings, reviews,you know, bugs,

(25:57):
feedback for them,
just even
simple encouragement
collapsed your audienceto use their apps
financial support.
If you use our PayPallink down below
one and I have committed
to sendingthe PayPal's out
and to help directly
support app developersbecause none of this
could have occurred.
You know the valuefor value show Adam

(26:17):
boosting in them, boosting
in streamingin all of these different
people, collaborating,coming together.
None of this would happenwithout this app
and you know, the core
group of peoplecreating this.
So this is just a shoutout for those at home to
to help support thembecause they're
there's it's a thanklesstask at times
and I think they deserve

(26:37):
more contributionrecognition for
for everythingthat they're doing.
And yeah
if you want to check outthat conversation
I did with Jason Hudgins,
you'll get a feel for thatand you'll know more
about the podcast guruapp as well.
So we'll leave it at therefor latest developments.
You know, it's worthyof of really reaching out
and helping up yourfavourite app developer

(26:59):
and letting them knowthat.
Let's go on to the whyBitcoin aspect of this,
which is the last
portion of the showbefore the end
where I just talka little bit about
somethingthat's related to Bitcoin
and whyI particularly encourage
using the value valuemodel through it.
And I'm going to talk
about the numbergo up phenomena
and you'll seeon your screen
now the, the awesomegif that Sven stuff

(27:22):
Uri claims created
and the numbers go upphenomena is in
full effect right now.
You know, we'rereaching all time highs.
I mostly
make myarguments for bitcoin
and value for valueall through the kind
of philosophical aspects
why decentralisationmatters,
why self sovereignty,sovereignty matters, why

(27:44):
having a permissionlessplace to to be able
to send money backand forth and matters
why privacy matters,all these sorts of things.
But there isno denying that
that the aspectof number go up
makesit makes a big difference,
makes a big difference.
And I'm going to ask youto consider today

(28:05):
perhaps one of the morebase phenomenons
of of human nature,which is greed,
or if you want toput it in
perhaps a neutral light,it's it's
more self-interest,
which I think is isprobably maybe a good way
of putting it as well.
And it's a powerfulincentive.
Powerful incentive.
So, you know,
even though
this whole episodewas about why
why moneydoesn't matter, I'm

(28:27):
going to flip it aroundright at the
at the end here
and say, you know,money does matter
and especiallywhen money goes up.
And so every creatorhere over the last
two yearshas stuck some sets
because
participate in the valuefamily unit model who has,
you know, hadtheir little stash,
had had some incomecome in

(28:48):
and who most importantlyhas held onto it,
that money has doubled,tripled, even quadrupled
from the very bottom.
If you're talkingan Australian dollar times
and I think there issomething about that
which is worthyof repeating
and acknowledging,which is if
if you want like the valuefor value model and

(29:11):
obviously value for value,you can do it through
other mechanisms,you can do it through fiat
if you want, you can do it
throughAustralian dollars,
you can do it through us,
you can do it throughJapanese
yen, you can do it throughwhatever.
But if you're using itthrough a digital money
that's on the Internet,
that's native for digital
content creators,which makes sense,
then I think this isa pretty strong argument

(29:32):
in terms of once again,the trend of going.
It's it's kind of hardto deny and argue
that someonewho created a show
you know Ainsley Costelloand just lad for example
the show that they did
I'm going to guess
that was for
a five months ago,perhaps even a little bit
more since that time.
Whatever moneythey have earned from
that has doubled, assumingthey held onto it,

(29:54):
that is a pretty strongincentive
because they're going to
tell their friends like,
yeah, not only did
I earn some money,but it doubled on itself.
I didn't have to doanything.
So this is just alittle call out here that,
you know, number go up.
I don't like tofocus on it.
I don't think it'sthe most important thing,
but I think it will havean impact.
And, you know, these

(30:15):
these digital contentcreators,
they're goingto want more of it.
And it's like, okay, well,how can I get paid in
this in this magicInternet money?
And three
for for creating my art,for doing things.
And you're not going todo it through Instagram.
You're not going to do itthrough TikTok.
You can earn some,you know,
ice creamemojis and and random crap
like that, tokensthat they've put in there.

(30:36):
But no,
the place that you're
going to doit is through the,
you know, 15ish podcast apps.
I list out a lost a lot ofthem all the time.
You know
in the just
in this episode truefans pod verse
podcast gallery fountains
really good breezesgreat cosmetics awesome.
If you want the videoside of things,
you can goto three speak if you want
to build noagenda tube for example.

(30:58):
There's plenty of the
different placesCura Costa
and the listgo on pod station
if you want to do itin your browser.
So many different places,you can do this directly
through the podcastindex website.
That's that's where thesepeople are going to go.
And you know, this is just
another recommendation,another trend saying,
okay, you know,
I think this is worthy
of considerationand looking out for.

(31:19):
So we're going to come
into our final sectionhere, which is the V
for the section,the value for value.
And this is where you canshare some time, talent
and treasure to helpmake the show better.
Sharing the episodewith the digital creator.
I think that's probably
one of the best things,
you know, easiest thingsthat you can do,
whether it be a musician,whether it be a podcast,

(31:40):
whether it bea digital artist,
whether it be a voiceactor, you know,
whether it be someonecreating
filters, visual effects,all these sorts of things,
you know,send it, send this
episode to him
or send the podcast to himand just say like, Hey,
there's a thingcalled value for value.
And it'sgot some interesting
it's an interesting model
and a way of connectingwith the audience and
and being able to monetiseat the same time

(32:03):
worth checking out.
And you can also join melive, which is really fun.
I do this 10 a.m.
Australian EasternStandard Time on a monday.
So that is if you're likeAustralian Eastern
Standard Time,I don't understand.
It is UTCmidnight on a Sunday.
So whatever your time zone
is, the world you know,plus ten for me here

(32:23):
in Australia so plus tenfrom midnight is 10 a.m.
on a monday.
If you're a negativeyou know eight
then that would make it,you know, 4 p.m.
in the afternoonon a Sunday easy fast.
So that is the timethat you can do talent,
you know.
Is there anything I can do
to make this show better?
Is there anythingaudio wise video was

(32:46):
that you'd prefer to do
resources that are similarto the ethos
that overlapwith all the things
I'm talking about here?
Do you have any bookrecommendations for books
that describe trendsmoving towards
crowdfunding modelsor peer to peer
or things
that have the value forvalue ethos or examples of

(33:08):
bands, movies, companies
moving towardsthis sort of model?
I would love to knowthese sorts of things,
so sending in thatrecommendation
would be awesome.
And then finally,treasure.
I've talked about thisa bit.
Use a new podcastapp boost in streaming
a portion 15%,
10% goes to the variouspeople
who have helped me outon this show.

(33:29):
You know, the door fallsfor the pre
and the pre-show musicas well as the intro music
call for reading out hisvoice,
actingchords there, and also
Sven stuff Fury Flamesfor his awesome gifts
that he's allowed meto use for Chapter eight.
All these sorts of things,you know, if you boost
in portions of this,goes to each of them.
So really, you know,

(33:49):
boost and streaming it'svery much appreciated
into this directly
with the money
in one of thosepodcasting apps
you can go to the podcastindex website
and there's also a PayPallink down below.
Awesome.
We're going to cometo the final portion here,
which is where I playa value for value song
and just to help supportmusicians, to help support
everyone who is, you know,

(34:11):
workingin all of these things.
And we're going to useI'm a bit of a sucker
to be honest,for Australians
and for Australian musicsupporting local,
local in the sensethat she's in Perth.
You know
how manyhours four or five hour
flight from Brisbane,
A local, local artisthere in Australia
whose name is Abi Muir,

(34:31):
she's got this songcalled Stockholm
and it's just a banger.
So she'sgoing to take us out and
until next week.
Thank youeveryone for joining.

Abi Muir (34:44):
My to Could.
Me in the Soul Corridorgo to the town.
Just tired of that for me.
I want to stay closer on.
My familyso they love me and I'm
chained to your
well meaning.

(35:04):
Bless your heart.
Your soul is the way.
And that's it.
My name, the psychic.
But I'm elicitingthis way.
So I'm fine tuning calling
you, me

(35:25):
and me.
I could I see Conor.
Screamingthings of this collision.

(35:46):
You're saying I'm overmy head.
That I've had inside it?
I But I do it again.
You could live withit and still no way.
I'm in
my searchway and it's in my name
and taxing yourselfin this way.

(36:10):
So I'll find the
content need
me and maybe find

(36:31):
I take all the fun funny.
You know, I.
Take all the pain.
Away, the

(36:59):
you send
me and.